Sonic being so low in the first tier list made sense, because back in the very first days of smash ultimate, almost none of his multi-hit moves used to connect properly
No, he was genuine garbage at the start, his hitboxes were smaller, he had more lag on some moves, his neutral special had way more lag and was easy to avoid, almost all his multi hits just didn't work, up smash would do 2-3 hits before dropping them out, I'd say original sonic was d tier@@drisslasfra6904
K. Rool was better day 1, but for some reason people went ballistic and demanded changes so he was nerfed in like the first patch. It's not like he was ever amazing.
bruh fr like one day I go to search this up to see how good my mains are (thinking they’re high tier) to find tier lists saying they’re “bottom tier”😐😐😐
I remember my Mac days. I sweated him so hard back in Smash 4. Always thought he had hidden potential. But now? Nah I'm good. I like to play characters who can actually fight in the air and are not glued to the ground.
You’re comparing the current tier list to a tier list that everyone also thought was stupid when it first came out. This isn’t a fair comparison at all lmao
@@Goldrush452 Ike was done dirty by the devs because they sold him as a slow heavy character and gave him bad recovery to justify his damage. Link on the other hand can be pretty strong but he simply is very easy to dodge a lot of the time
he hits so hard and controls ground game on top of having fox speed essentially.. but not air accel.. honestly his recovery is bad but i'd argue dr.mario has worst recovery
@@BattleCatsGuruYou get hit by one projectile or sent at a bad angle and your stock is gone. I've played against Mac mains and I have been one as well back in Smash 4. Hes so predictable when he lands since 99% of Mac players use counter when landing which is a free smash attack or grab. Doctor Mario at least has a decent jump and air mobility. Also his down b is insanely good for mixing up recovery. I've also mainly Doc so I know this for a fact.
The problem with that is it's only based on character usage or wins. So it's no surprising this tier list makes sense. It makes too much sense actually cause it exactly reflects what we see in tournaments. But relying on what is played isn't necessarely an accurate representation of the character' strength. As an exemple, If everyone would exclusively play the same 5 characters, the rest would have to be in lower tiers but couldn't be rated accurately at all without datas. We also need to separate the character'strength from the player cause you could just say Incineroar is a high tier character simply because Sky Jay wins a lot lately with his chatacter. Byleth could just be considered S tier only because MK Leo plays the character at top tier level. A usage based tier list can at best be very partially correct because every character that isn't played can't be ranked fairly. You could just say the lack of usage for some characters only reveals they're bad, which in actuality isn't true nor accurate cause you can't precisely rank the character among the other least played characters for exemple. Also since money is in play, people just don't take risks and competitors play what everyone know is strong. That leads to very biased tier lists. Thus I would say don't trust what is below B tier (except the characters the whole community agrees on) and take B tier with a grain of salt cause some characters just don't have enough datas for them.
Incineroar isn't high tier. Nobody except Sky Jay is getting good results with the character cause the lack of mobility and bad recovery are too much of a problem. If you can't capitalize effectively on every occasion you're going to struggle a lot. That's what Sky Jay succeeds to do and that's why he's so good, not because of his character. Incineroar is underrated for sure. He really never deserved low tier rank in my opinion but he's surely not a high tier character. He's probably just a Mid-Tier if we're honest. We shouldn't be fooled just because a character can kill extremely early. That's a huge strength to have but it makes people forget the other weaknesses of a character. We shouldn't directly assume a character is actually very good either just because the character suddenly gets very good results. It's usually because of the player, it always matters more. We need to look at it with other players to see if players significantly get better results when they play a specific character on average to have a better idea. Also theorization is important to evaluate a character in a very neutral way. It's what tells us Joker or Pikachu are top tier characters despite the fact nobody actually gets results with them except MK Leo and Esam and Shiny Mark.
Im surprised people still say they can accurately rate characters we never see like toon link so confidently yet these are often the same people who rank shulk highly based off of "potential" when he's been the "potential" guy for 10 years. And Ultimate has had multiple instances where a top player wins with a character a few times out of nowhere and suddenly they shoot up the tier list (Mario, Pac, Sonic, etc) but theyll still refuse to give characters the proper time of day
@@kyurei4478 thats why im not looking at results, im looking at the character. Def high tier, hands down, MAYBE you could make a case for high mid tier
@The New Seorarek If you were really looking at the character, that's not what you would say. Incineroar is in no way high tier trust me. Sky Jay makes it heavily biased. Same story for other characters with good players. He also profits from the uncommon matchup factor. Mid mid tier easily. You could make a case for high mid tier but that's really the best you can do and it's a bit of a stretch. Incineroar never deserved low tier I've said it since day one but let's not push too far.
Tier lists are complete bs unless you're playing in a high stakes tournament, I main Gannon and do very well online and against friends. Just pick whoever is fun and play them.
@@autumnassassin8263 Yea that's what I always done nothing funner then messing around with a character that you really like or trying to learn a new character. For me right now it's Mewtwo he's not the best but he's so fun to play with.
@autumnassassin8263 if you take this game seriously whatsoever, tier lists are definitely relevant, although not the end-all-be-all. Going to even small local tournaments is pretty eye opening when you see people who main heavies getting absolutely tossed around by combo characters like they've never played before.
Bro he is trash like Dobt said he can’t approach well and he also has terrible mobility and no out of shield options, which make him terribly easy to cheese
Well actually, Ganondorf is objectively bad in a game like smash, and even in any type of fighting game. If you had a bit of common sense you'd know that chars that are slow and heavy dmg don't do well in games that rely on fast moves like smash. You are either really young, because i thought the same back on smash brawl when i was 11 or you have extremly low iq, because just by looking at his moveset, literally any characters that have projectiles or are faster than him will slaughter his ass. He has nothing to properly come back on the platform as well, no cc, no good blocks, he is slow af, basically, captain falcon is a better version of ganondorf.
it's really unfortunate that Zelda has been ranked a low tier in every single smash bros game she is featured in. Melee: 24/26 Brawl: 37/38 Sm4sh: 52.5/54 Ultimate: 75/82
Greninja can be an absolute menace when played well, he’s even fast enough to avoid ultimates just in time even with time slowness like with bayonettas ult
I find it funny how in the more recent tier list female corrin is featured over male corrin when he should be the default gender. Just corrin. No one else.
I'm glad he recognized how good Yoshi was. Yoshi was my day 1 main and I was a straight killer with that character. New tier list ranks Yoshi high as it should.
Here’s a fun fact. I managed to make it onto my schools smash bros esports team with 2 months of smash experience and playing little Mac. It’s by complete luck and a miracle I got on that team, and I sat in the bench the entire season. I still managed to make it on the team the following years by complete chance, cuz these kids weren’t bad, they had smelly pits so you know they were beasts at smash bros.
I love how yoshi's been in the same spot this whole time
Hell yeah
Yoshi is just.. the best
My main
that’s all me
Yoshi side-b is the only thing keeping Yoshi from being top tier
Sonic being so low in the first tier list made sense, because back in the very first days of smash ultimate, almost none of his multi-hit moves used to connect properly
He wans't in the bottom tier, they just didn't know where to put him
In the 2024 tier list, he’s in the S+ with Steve
No, he was genuine garbage at the start, his hitboxes were smaller, he had more lag on some moves, his neutral special had way more lag and was easy to avoid, almost all his multi hits just didn't work, up smash would do 2-3 hits before dropping them out, I'd say original sonic was d tier@@drisslasfra6904
@@Bekyboi501Fr
It's not bad because its a day 1 tier list, its bad because it's a leffen tier lisy
Leffen doing the try not to be a clown challenge (0% success rate)
@@WordDocument4Leffen trying to not put puff in top 1: (Impossible challenge).
It is terrible both have Piranha Plant on D tier
@@Oscorpior99 bc hes bad
@@doofuscawt no he isnt
C'mon people. K.Rool is bad but deserves more love. Kirby kid makes it viable and he rarely loses to steve.
Kirby kid kracked
no
K. Rool was better day 1, but for some reason people went ballistic and demanded changes so he was nerfed in like the first patch. It's not like he was ever amazing.
My joycon controller should be in f tier.
My joy cons are either drifting, won’t connect or missing part of the joystick
My joycons are definitely C+
They don't drift but they're too small and uncomfortable to properly use.
My joycons are also F. Pro controller all the way.
WHY ARE ALL MY MAINS IN THE LOWEST TIER!!!???? (Like why?)
Ganon is The best ❤
New one or old
That’s what I’M sayin
bruh fr like one day I go to search this up to see how good my mains are (thinking they’re high tier) to find tier lists saying they’re “bottom tier”😐😐😐
@@lamogetrektlittlekidlol5757 playing casually is a very different meta
Sonic got the biggest glow up
He is in unknown, not bottom tier
@@Ed_AlphA thank god, I don’t want him to suck anymore
my dudes in s tier finally OUR GOAL IS COMPLETE GET SONIC IN S IS COMPLETE
I hate Sonic with a passion in Smash
He shouldn’t have.
I'm a little Mac main and proud. This makes me feel better because I can main him well
Mac is just so fun
I remember my Mac days. I sweated him so hard back in Smash 4. Always thought he had hidden potential. But now? Nah I'm good. I like to play characters who can actually fight in the air and are not glued to the ground.
Little mac just matches my play style so well
seeing luigi at B was not expected
0 to death
I’m proud that Greninja is still A High Tier Character
Indeed, sad about king though.
Raise your hand if you think Kirby should at least be in C Tier.
honstly it should be A or S
@@modernartbluesful What.
fR he’s better than most of those characters on d tier
He’s C tier and would be B/A if he had better air mobility
Steve and Pyra/Mythra are up there even when played by a lvl 9 A.I.
Putting falco at #1 didn’t seem to out of pocket at the time, he obviously had some of the best combos and kill confirms on day 1.
Kirby is god tier for real
Based take
he stronk
I think so
True but also I would rather him not be in the game at all then have to suffer being hit by his down b for the millionth time in a row
FR
PAC-MAN in E tier? Bruh. He's literally a top tier fighter.
And My Boy G&W?!?! HES A FUCKING S TIER
I think with Pac it’s because it took a while for people to master his set ups and mechanics
Reminder, this isn't taking online into account, online has alot of input lag, so the tier list is pretty different for online
I won't allow them to put my man Ganondorf in such a disrespectful position.
Isn’t that the most powerful character in the game ask Alexa or Siri or some shit i think she says ganon
The thing is, if you compare the current list to the early meta ones, surprisingly enough not much has changed
So Mario in D to top of A+, close to S Tier is not a big change? Unless you mean that most things are similar to where they used to be.
@@seasonslayer6093 , Mario was considered a mid-high Tier I think
@@seasonslayer6093 the tier list shown in video was day 1, not early meta like maybe 1-2 yrs into the game after some defining buffs and nerfs
@@Squirtle_Squad_Supremacy yeah true my b you’re right
I miss when Pichu had a genuine argument for #1
God, smash players even hated Pac-Man back then. Now, it’s for different reasons.
Pacman is a hype character and i will die on that hill
@@rolan.r That will always be true!
@@rolan.rim with you the big brain plays are way past cool
Pac man was always one of my mains
@@TristenTimberwolfSame here
It doesn’t matter use the character you like and your good with
like gonodork?😮
@@SNORLAX8888 yes as long as you like it
@@Lebronmemes
i do like the wYHA!! and the TooTHiEs and also AGgGRr and the MJmHnJSHAHAHAHahah thats gonondork i like it😐
Literally the definition of having mains in smash bros
@@SNORLAX8888*Tornado* HMPH! *pills* *pills* *pills* *pills* I like Dr. Mario :)
Wow Peach is in S tier! i've always mained her in melee too she was such good character.
“He’s a slow piece of crap, that hits like a boat crash.” -on Ganondorf in Smash.
Good to know my two mains, Pikachu and Yoshi, just so happen to be high tiers.
I think Lucas should go higher but yeah seems fairly normal, maybe bowser jr a little higher in c tier
Honestly Lucas is better than bowser
Whatever your tier list says, the metaslave fears the low tier enjoyer.
True, I like pichu, but I only picked then up AFTER they got nerfed down from S to B
Ike deserves more credit
I main sonic and I can’t believe that he’s in S, always thought he was mid-high tier, it’s a good day to be a sonic main I guess
bro really loves using the B button as
pRyA and mYtHrA💀
No, look a pro agis Player in smash tournament ☠️
You’re comparing the current tier list to a tier list that everyone also thought was stupid when it first came out. This isn’t a fair comparison at all lmao
😂
I remember the Belmonts, K. Rool, Zelda being the tippy top tiers in the first year of ultimate because nobody knew how to fight them.
Leffen 100% put the Belmonts at the top because he went online and got camped out by them.
Real 'air time limit' type shit I'm guessing.
Link and Ike are so low why they gotta do my mains like that 😔
Tbh I agree , I think link and Ike are underrated 🤷🏾♂️
Link def underrated he's pretty good. Ike has strong and fast attack but omg ike has a very hard to adapt recovery. It's so hard without a jump.
@@Goldrush452 Ike was done dirty by the devs because they sold him as a slow heavy character and gave him bad recovery to justify his damage. Link on the other hand can be pretty strong but he simply is very easy to dodge a lot of the time
Ike I don't really think is underrated, link is definitely underrated though, it's just no one can really play link at peak performance yet
I get my rising uppercut is horrible, but you ain’t gotta do me like that
Yeah facs, little Mac is busted or at least not F tier probably like B- or C
he hits so hard and controls ground game on top of having fox speed essentially.. but not air accel.. honestly his recovery is bad but i'd argue dr.mario has worst recovery
@@anthonyodom7691 so true. Once you learn how to recover it becomes pretty easy
@@BattleCatsGuruYou get hit by one projectile or sent at a bad angle and your stock is gone. I've played against Mac mains and I have been one as well back in Smash 4. Hes so predictable when he lands since 99% of Mac players use counter when landing which is a free smash attack or grab. Doctor Mario at least has a decent jump and air mobility. Also his down b is insanely good for mixing up recovery. I've also mainly Doc so I know this for a fact.
@@taelin-rh3wi yeah little mac’s recovery is really easy to two frame as well or go off stage and punish
The problem with that is it's only based on character usage or wins. So it's no surprising this tier list makes sense. It makes too much sense actually cause it exactly reflects what we see in tournaments. But relying on what is played isn't necessarely an accurate representation of the character' strength. As an exemple, If everyone would exclusively play the same 5 characters, the rest would have to be in lower tiers but couldn't be rated accurately at all without datas. We also need to separate the character'strength from the player cause you could just say Incineroar is a high tier character simply because Sky Jay wins a lot lately with his chatacter. Byleth could just be considered S tier only because MK Leo plays the character at top tier level. A usage based tier list can at best be very partially correct because every character that isn't played can't be ranked fairly. You could just say the lack of usage for some characters only reveals they're bad, which in actuality isn't true nor accurate cause you can't precisely rank the character among the other least played characters for exemple. Also since money is in play, people just don't take risks and competitors play what everyone know is strong. That leads to very biased tier lists. Thus I would say don't trust what is below B tier (except the characters the whole community agrees on) and take B tier with a grain of salt cause some characters just don't have enough datas for them.
Thats because incin is high tier, only thing keeping him out of s is his movement speed and predictable recovery
Incineroar isn't high tier. Nobody except Sky Jay is getting good results with the character cause the lack of mobility and bad recovery are too much of a problem. If you can't capitalize effectively on every occasion you're going to struggle a lot. That's what Sky Jay succeeds to do and that's why he's so good, not because of his character. Incineroar is underrated for sure. He really never deserved low tier rank in my opinion but he's surely not a high tier character. He's probably just a Mid-Tier if we're honest. We shouldn't be fooled just because a character can kill extremely early. That's a huge strength to have but it makes people forget the other weaknesses of a character. We shouldn't directly assume a character is actually very good either just because the character suddenly gets very good results. It's usually because of the player, it always matters more. We need to look at it with other players to see if players significantly get better results when they play a specific character on average to have a better idea. Also theorization is important to evaluate a character in a very neutral way. It's what tells us Joker or Pikachu are top tier characters despite the fact nobody actually gets results with them except MK Leo and Esam and Shiny Mark.
Im surprised people still say they can accurately rate characters we never see like toon link so confidently yet these are often the same people who rank shulk highly based off of "potential" when he's been the "potential" guy for 10 years. And Ultimate has had multiple instances where a top player wins with a character a few times out of nowhere and suddenly they shoot up the tier list (Mario, Pac, Sonic, etc) but theyll still refuse to give characters the proper time of day
@@kyurei4478 thats why im not looking at results, im looking at the character. Def high tier, hands down, MAYBE you could make a case for high mid tier
@The New Seorarek If you were really looking at the character, that's not what you would say. Incineroar is in no way high tier trust me. Sky Jay makes it heavily biased. Same story for other characters with good players. He also profits from the uncommon matchup factor. Mid mid tier easily. You could make a case for high mid tier but that's really the best you can do and it's a bit of a stretch. Incineroar never deserved low tier I've said it since day one but let's not push too far.
Its not "completely wrong" its just their opinion
i love how dr mario and mario are exactly the same yet in completely different spots
No no dude
Pichu moving from A to B- is highway robbery bro.
Bro, Pichu is the lightest weight character in smash bros.
He got massively nerfed
Kirby doesn’t deserve to be bottom tier, or I be saying this because I main him.
"And it looks like complete trash."
As a K. Rool main, you're wrong and this is the only list that gets his position correct.
How is kirby all the way down below he is the one who saved everyone in smash?
true
More like using it 3 times until mario and never use him again
Isabelle at bottom tier is a crime
Ganondorf is a menace in combos, he is super good, although he is pretty slow, he is super strong, definitely should been in c or b tier
I love how peach and daisy are technically the same yet the are in completely different spaces
Tier lists can help show you which characters might be the best but I wouldn't reccomend using them to pick a character
Tier lists are complete bs unless you're playing in a high stakes tournament, I main Gannon and do very well online and against friends. Just pick whoever is fun and play them.
@@autumnassassin8263 Yea that's what I always done nothing funner then messing around with a character that you really like or trying to learn a new character. For me right now it's Mewtwo he's not the best but he's so fun to play with.
@autumnassassin8263 if you take this game seriously whatsoever, tier lists are definitely relevant, although not the end-all-be-all. Going to even small local tournaments is pretty eye opening when you see people who main heavies getting absolutely tossed around by combo characters like they've never played before.
If you get the right spirits for lil mac he can be the best character
💀
I like how all these characters are still good options when playing with friends, competitively it might be a little different
K. Rool is a demolisher. Everybody seems to overestimate his capability as an enjoyable fighter lmao 😂
King K is like A tier
No S
Kirby is underrated
Fr
I feel like people think this tier list is based off of how good people think the characters are vs how good their moves are
I find it hilarious that Sonic went from bottom of the barrel to the best non-DLC character in the game.
Theres a thing called mains and opinions.
Falco being the best character is true because he is the best Smash bros Waifu
And of course, the infamous “Hands off my- KAWK!”
As a kazuya main I suggest we ban kazuya
Steve really showed his strength 💪⛏️
Ganondorf is D-, huh? Well, that just makes it more satisfying to win as him. Guess I have an excuse if I lose, though..
Big facts 💯😭
King K Rool is still top tier 😂
Wii fit teainer is not weak it doesnt deserve to be C tier
Nah they at all in the top tier. And I mean every character+Dlc. They are all good.
As a king dedede main WHAT THE FUCK!
As a king dedede main, yeah seems right
As a king dedede main ye this is correct place. Perhaps one spot too low. But ye he sucks
@@jojo6783f Probably not one spot too low, mac and ganon have awful disadvantages, while dedede has a pretty solid disadvantage
@@Cringe89563 i meant i might put ddd above doc
@@jojo6783f ahh
“why is k rool on top tier” i dare you to fight king of skill
king of skill is good but not top tier pro gamer MLG or anything
A moment of silence for Pichu's massive glow down.
I main Plant, Meta Knight, Greninja, Cloud, and Shulk, they’re all spread randomly from each other
damn i wish krool was that good 😭
He is good though, ain't no way he deserves d tier
The hell does a day one tier list include plant
Because he was there day one??
Did you forget that you could purchase plant before the game even came out?
I remember plant being avaliable for purchase but not out yet at the time of release, he came out maybe a month or two later
@@Saben.C-Spoon that’s just not true lol
He was announced already, which is why they are in the "???" category
WHY IS KING K ROOL IN ONE OF THE BOTTOM TIERS? HE DESERVES BETTER
He's good casually, shiet competitively
All i want in smash is them to remake Sonic's moveset😢
No way he said ganondorf was trash😂
ganon just cant approach. heavy hitting moves dont matter if you cant land them. same goes for a lot of other heavyweights like, say dedede.
Bro he is trash like Dobt said he can’t approach well and he also has terrible mobility and no out of shield options, which make him terribly easy to cheese
hits ganon with back throw
well there he goes
Well actually, Ganondorf is objectively bad in a game like smash, and even in any type of fighting game. If you had a bit of common sense you'd know that chars that are slow and heavy dmg don't do well in games that rely on fast moves like smash. You are either really young, because i thought the same back on smash brawl when i was 11 or you have extremly low iq, because just by looking at his moveset, literally any characters that have projectiles or are faster than him will slaughter his ass. He has nothing to properly come back on the platform as well, no cc, no good blocks, he is slow af, basically, captain falcon is a better version of ganondorf.
Ganondorf is trash and the obvious worst character in the game
As a Zelda main, I feel very offended by both.
it's really unfortunate that Zelda has been ranked a low tier in every single smash bros game she is featured in.
Melee: 24/26
Brawl: 37/38
Sm4sh: 52.5/54
Ultimate: 75/82
No matter what anyone says, Zelda will always be my favourite.
Wario, Banjo, Sephiroph and Pyra/Mythra have the best final smashes
I'm just happy Samus is finally high tier 😢😂
What character do yo use in smash?
Me cloud ✋☁️
Mii brawler
Sonic The hedgehog Mario Luigi Peach Daisy Dr Mario Wario And Rosalina And Luma
Steve
He’s OP
Mr. Game and Watch. Also tell people to stop calling us spammers, especially the fire emblem characters
Greninja can be an absolute menace when played well, he’s even fast enough to avoid ultimates just in time even with time slowness like with bayonettas ult
The tier list looks so different now
Plant guy at the bottom😢 whyyyyyyyyyy he’s my favourite one😂
Man I just wanna play a decent ganondorf in smash… Hes easily my favorite gaming villain
Ah yea its good to see my boy meta knight in s tier 🥹
Nah y'all did my mii swordfighter JOE BIDEN in a maid suit bad
absolute crime to put little mac and gandolf in trash
One of my friends is highly competitive and he was literally crying when I kept on beating him as little mac. He was playing ROB
They were cooking with the official tier list
We heavy mains must gather and show these mfs who the real top tiers are, as a k rool main, i shall not take this slander 😤
I find it funny how in the more recent tier list female corrin is featured over male corrin when he should be the default gender. Just corrin. No one else.
I'm glad he recognized how good Yoshi was. Yoshi was my day 1 main and I was a straight killer with that character. New tier list ranks Yoshi high as it should.
Mario And Dr Mario Are S Tier For Me The Rest Are C And B
The disrespect on Dedede is insane on both of these tier lists.
Richter does not deserve this disrespect
Meta Knight needs to be at least A-Tier imo
KKR should definitely be in top tier but Meta knight should be a little lower
The fact that Corrin’s on B+-tier is disturbingly wild to me.
Love how fox and wolf are S tier but falcos chilling in B tier
Here’s a fun fact. I managed to make it onto my schools smash bros esports team with 2 months of smash experience and playing little Mac. It’s by complete luck and a miracle I got on that team, and I sat in the bench the entire season. I still managed to make it on the team the following years by complete chance, cuz these kids weren’t bad, they had smelly pits so you know they were beasts at smash bros.
I think all characters are good, except for lil Mac.
Lil mac is goated
@@boost61 🧢
@@mexico7721 if you can get over his recovrey hes a pretty good charcter
@@boost61if you can get past his recovery AND aerials
May mains are in low tier and my secondaries are in high tier💀
fellow mac mains wya. we must rise up against this slander
Us Kirby mains been struggling since day 1 😭😭😭
Kirby deserves S tier, kirby is OP
K. Rool is still borderline broken. And yet somehow Ridley is better.