Can We Make Up New Gods?
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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I believe in a more unified spiritual world. One not built on hate or division, but of understanding and respect. That is why his content has always be free of modern and divisive content. I am committed to providing information free of bias, drama, and ego. I believe religion, spirituality, and global healing is for everyone regardless of race, sexuality, gender, or political ideology.
I’ve heard this called Conpantheism - not necessarily ‘creating’ a new God but contacting forgotten Gods and I guess giving them a new name - with their permission - and bringing their existence into society again.
I think this has happened a lot already in gods/goddesses like Freyr and Freyja. Or even ocean deities who all have very limited information and yet all have similar aspects
Thanks for sharing! I definitely feel we're in need of new vocabulary, and conpantheism is one I'm going to add to mine.
I was going to write something similar. That this was not creating a new God but renaming one that already exists.
This topic is most interesting; particularly because Pagans on American soil will increasingly encounter land spirits local to them, and even gods tied specifically to this land and we'll need to call these beings something, if we're not directly told/revealed something specific.
As for choosing names for the embodiment of ideas/seasons--why, of course we can choose names if we desire. It seems reasonable that this is one way that Pagan practices become quite localized, and based upon customs being established by Pagans in the same geographical community.
Like yourself, I think this is an opportunity to weave in more Paganism, ceremony and symbolism. That can certainly evolve with time--we need only make the effort to do so!
I agree!
Lets take it a step further. Gods are just spirits whose names we know!
@@crushinnihilismInsightful and concise.
I don't think we make up gods we just give them names that help us relate to them. I used to be a devout daughter of Isis but she never fit completely to me so I also left offerings for Bast, Freya, Morrigan, Cerridwen and other goddesses depending on the need/holiday/etc. Now I just refer to her as the 'Many Faced Mother' and eventually I know she'll have a name somewhere down the line but I'm in no rush.
Things like this contain the true spirit of folk traditions
I would have to say yes and no, myself. The Heikki Lunta festival is a harmless example. They created it for more snow, then told it to go away. Now they use it to bring people together. I say, why not? We do have to be careful giving power to something we may not fully understand.
I have a saying for many people struggling. Sometimes you need to be your own deity.
Very well said.
The Winter Carnival in St. Paul, MN, also has gods and goddesses of winter and heat. Funny that us Northern Folk have these gods squirreled away in our frozen north lands.
Super interesting topic! I personally think it's not "inventing" new gods but more like giving a forgotten god a new name. Or not even necessarily forgotten. Maybe gods don't mind differing names, just as much as we humans (mostly) have multiple names/nicknames throughout life.
As to making up New Gods, no. We have enough all ready. As to exploring another facet of Norse Spirituality, Yes!
Couple of thoughts as I watch this video. ... First is the thought that spirits of certain things have different forms and names in different places and cultures. So giving it a new name might breathe life into an old deity and give them a slightly different form under that name. That's one thought.
The other thought is that if enough people come together, I feel they can pull together the threads of energy enough to weave something new ... be it a new spirit or new god. With those threads gaining life as they form attachments and places within universe.
And thinking that leads to a third thought which plays off the two or maybe focuses one or the other. ... If enough people come together and pull together the threads of energy enough to weave something new ... Maybe they are catching hold of an older spirit with the threads they weave giving that entity new form and new life through the new connections to the universe and creation created?
All of this is how we take something near almost or completely forgotten and recreate a path to the final destination even though the old trail has eroded or been lost with time.
Makes me think how as I look out to the mountains in the distance ... I can feel the spirit of them, but have no idea the name ... So I call that spirit ... "Blue Smoke." ... Honoring Blue Ridge and what some of the old tribes of this land called them. Won't use the name from their language as not my language ... but ... "Blue Smoke" for me *IS* the spirit of these same mountains. Just the name I call them. Like how some know me as Mike or Michael ... and others as Hauk and/or Pathfinder.
FANTASTIC video, btw. LOVED it. ... It's a line of thought and question I've heard before and always been fascinated about.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 🙏
Reading your thoughts is like reading mine! Thank you for sharing your perceptions and insights on how you experience the world.
Us Yoopers are definitely familiar with good ol Lunta
Here's an idea for a new god: a god of espresso machines and a god of I-Phones, a god of AI and a god of hipsters.
All hail Steve Jobs
I really enjoyed this presentation! It put me in mind of a short story I read some years ago in an anthology of Christmas-themed science fiction which opened with the main character fretting over this very question, or at least a very similar one: are gods created by virtue of people believing in them? The story was “Nackles,” by Donald Westlake. The main character used Santa Claus as an example. Is he a god, given how many children believe in him? He was worried because his mean-spirited, alcoholic brother-in-law had created a sort of anti-Santa named Nackles with which to terrify and torment his children. He got his comeuppance in the end, it’s implied, at the hands of his own creation. Great story, really.
Of course, Westlake was using this purely as a literary device, not seriously considering the question as you have here.
I appreciate your content. Your new ideas are always fun.
I Loved This Video💘TY for Sharing Your Thoughts & Insights, Listening To You Is So Much FUN!!!
it´s from real finnish folk tradition
(heikinpäivä) when they say the
winter´s power breaks and the bear
turns to the other side.
obviously the bear connection might
make it very old.. all the old
calender dates (names) were tribal
totems originally (that were celebrated
somewhere, but not everywhere, what
made them special).
the absence of girls is what made
it real for me, they hate the cold :)
as for the question.. i think there
is no need for "general gods",
that ship might have sailed.. instead
be open to whatever gives you power,
that´s how i found my main helper,
the sun (haven´t looked back once).
Welcome to Michigan, we could use a good festival
I'm from Michigan up north!!
Me too
As a new celtic pagan i believe that you can not just create new gods out of nothing. Because i believe wholeheartedly that my gods are real. Like Lugh for example, I believe he is a real warrior who helped defend Ireland and the Tuatha De Danann. So i think if it isnt rooted in some sort of spiritual reality, then you cant just will a god into existence. If that makes sense?
For the sake of just debate. If Lugh was a hero of Ireland so much that he became spiritual and divine. Couldn’t a new hero emerge now that could become the same thing?
@@TheWisdomOfOdin No because Lugh was a god, and we are not. I believe in modern hero worship. But lugh wasn't just a warrior, he was a legit god, descended directly from the Dagda himself. He was a member of the Tuatha De Danann. I'm a big proponent of Hero veneration, and I wanted to mention it in my original comment but i thought it would water down my main thought.
Matter a fact, I think everyone should strive to be venerated as a hero by future generations. That is certainly a goal of mine, to leave a lasting impact on the world around me.
I totally agree. We cannot "make up" new gods. There's a reason we worship and venerate our gods. They are not "made up".
I remember the spaghetti monster 😅
This topic can go in any direction! Yes you can make up a god. Toss some blood offerings and you created a servator 👀
Or maybe that man utilized his inner natural magic and the energy created it.
Or the elementals helped out.
I could go on and on. Haha. And if there's a recurring festival, they gave the story an image, people gathering. That's all magic baby 🌌🌌🌌
This was a fun video! Love the randomness
Odin Believers where you at🏴🇩🇪🇩🇰🇳🇴🇸🇪🇮🇸🇳🇱
🇦🇹
Swedish🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪 Not a believer... BUT I do appreciate our Norse Mythology!🦩✨✨✨✨
@@E.Hilderbran Sorry forgot about Austria 🇦🇹
@@DonnaGisellaTranchel Appreciating your ancestors is more than enough and I’m English 🏴
@@pAThomies I appreciate English History almost more than anything else... Wow! Not a dull moment! Wish You a good day and life! 🦩✨✨✨
This is something I have thought about for a while...Say for instance enough people believed in & worshipped Kratos (Of God Of War fame) then would it be possible to kind of will him into existence. Its an interesting thought experiment.
God my polytheistic/anthropological nerd heart adores all of this so fucking much
What if it's not so much as creating new gods as it is giving new epithets to gods long forgotten?
I guess if you focus on something and put your energy into it, it makes it real, right!? 😊
I believe what I believe, but I want to attach the caveat that I don't think I completely know what's definitely true on this subject any more than I think anyone else does.
Some gods, I think, are and have from their beginning existed independently from us. We didn't make them, and we probably can't know what did. We did perceive them, though, and gave them names and titles to try and encapsulate what we thought they were, and probably some of them have been perceived and named by many different peoples in many different places at many different points in time.
Some gods, I think, were mortal once. They were mortals who became so legendary and were so brightly remembered and so venerated by others, even after they died, that they became something more than the original human at the core of the idea in both a cultural and a metaphysical sense. Somebody else who commented here referred to pulling together "the threads of energy enough to weave something new," and I think that's kind of what I mean -- the threads of energy, or the threads of fate, or magic, or something I haven't found the right name for. The mortal person gets bound up in that, but isn't all of what gets woven; the something new is something bigger, something brighter, something not mortal anymore, and something that's not entirely like that original mortal person because it's been shaped and woven by the retelling of the legend they became. But that Something/Someone is real.
Some gods, I think, start with a core like the mortal human above, but instead of being a living mortal human they start as an idea (like justice), a season (like winter), a character in a story, or a smaller kind of spirit. These things also get woven up in the threads of energy/magic/fate by the people to whom they're deeply relevant and important, and through that something new and real is made. From the idea or season comes an embodiment with consciousness who can answer you; the small spirit becomes bigger and brighter; the character transcends the story and becomes a spirit.
If this all happened long enough ago, then we're content to call them gods or demigods or mythic heroes now and it all fits into what we think paganism should look like. We get to feel like our gods and the traditions around them grew out of the rocks and are as old as time because there's no record of who first told their stories or said their names. There's a comforting stability in that, as well as an enchanting sense of mystery, and it's also something we can use to validate ourselves because "it's been around for a long time" is one of the very few objective and provable things you can say about a religious concept.
I think whether personifying and breathing greater power into ideas, spirits, and characters that are deeply relevant and important to us is 'healthy' depends on the idea/spirit/character in question more so than anything else. The fact that people *will* do this is neither good nor bad in itself, but it is the way things are.
By the way, it's really nice to see this question evaluated in a way that's measured, respectful, and interested, even if also with some reservations.
Wow never heard of this festival. I’m in Indiana and may check it out
This is a very interesting topic.
Buddhist mythology says that human beings can be reborn as Gods in other realms.
Perhaps the apotheosis of especially heroic or virtuous humans is one way in which Gods come into being.
Its also believed by some occultists that its possible to create living self aware astral beings with focused psychic energy.
Id love to see some content that goes deeper into these things.
It’s in Negaunee which is near Marquette Michigan. There’s a big hill nearby in a forest you can hike up for great views. I was there a few summers ago.
The Gods bring aspects of Order, Strength and sometimes even tribal Boundaries to our lives. There are Gods of War that we interact with through ritual and storytelling that assist us in winning battles. Just like the Gods of Farming and domestic life, that help bring us good energy to make our crops grow stronger. And the Gods elevate us in our education, as they teach us to write in our languages and to read our Eddas. Sometimes these Gods Crossover into other aspects of our lives, and I believe we can, and should allow the Gods to Evolve, and even Add to the assemblage of Gods from time to time when the need arises.
Yeah, well I think thats a ton of our issue as a society. We have become our own gods.
Agreed.
Is it really making the gods up or are they just recognising old deities/spirits that may have been known by other names in older times?
I see that everyone has already pretty much said that in the comments :)
Same wavelength.
I agree if we start worship and gove offering to a "made up" deity some old spirit will answer the call especially if the energy of that spirit resonate with what we associate with that "new" deity. I also think that is people putting collective energy during a long time spam into symbols, objects and rituals that males them sacred and magical. As someone who comes from a land with a strong pagan tradition that survived trough Catholicism but who's pagan pantheon is completely lost I strongly belive in "creating" new ones, new traditions and new temples
Is it really making it up or are they just recognising old spirits that may have been known by other names in older times?
Many faiths and spiritual traditions have, at their heart, an unknowable source that animates the universe, and connects all of us. Emerson called it the Oversoul, Hindus call it Brahman. The Tao, the World Soul, the Source, the Great Spirit. All the same things.
I look at it like a SQL server. Various gods are the interfaces. You can use an interface someone else came up with, or you can figure out your own, or you can interact directly with the source. All legitimate ways to manage your spirituality.
The word I would use for this type of entity is an “egregore”.
When do we tell @jacobToddson about Hodag in Rhinelander? Hmmm….check that one out too, Jacob. 😉
Can you make up a god of lottery wins?😂😂
If you ever do, gimme the deets lol.
this is really cool no pun intended
Cool video brother!!! Always nice to see the off topic paganism videos.
Made the most out of that heikki lunta footage 😂
@@TheWisdomOfOdin Yeah, I turned out good in my mind.
This ties into something else I've wondered about. How literal does one's belief need to be for it t (for lack of a better phrase/better words) for it to "count" or be "legitimate. On a purely individual/personal level people can believe what they want to be lieve/practice how they want to practice ( as long as it isn't hurting someone else) and "do" religion or spirituality however they want. But at what point does a very loose non-literal approach become offensive or disrespectful maybe to those who maybe grew up with and perhaps take a stricter approach to spiritual practices or beliefs associated with a specific culture? I'd be curious to hear about people's different experiences with Pagan gatherings/communities around all of this.
The gods are. So we can't make them up.
The first person who said the name Odin ether got the name through a vision or he/she named the deity that he/she encountered Odin.
The gods as we know have many names, so it is likely that some names where given to them by us.
The point is that we just use the gods names to call them.
But I think there may be new gods in the future. Just think about the story of Bragi becoming a good.
What if:
Can we make up a practice?
Yes we can.
And if we continue doing this practice ( say for example drinking a really good coffe made with miuch attention and drunk from a personally very dear cup only once a year while commemorating friends we no longer meet) for many years and share it with a large comunity, leading to a meaningful experience everytime we perform this practice, we may even end up calling it a ritual?
What if we call it a ritual?
Now, say we don't dedicate this ritual to any God. Just not. Is it stil spiritual?
If we would consider it spiritual in a sense that we consider it meaningfull and it connects us to our bodies, our selves, our fellow people and perhaps even to the greater world, does it need a God?
So, I'm wondering, what happens if we turn the question around? What if we don't come up with Gods nor dedicate meaningfull practice to a existing deity (existing in a sense that we as humans worship it), could we stil practice spirituality?
I think we do this on a smaller scale all the time. If you frequently leave an offering out for a landwight associated with a specific spot, you begin to develop a relationship. If it's something done with your friends and family, now it's becoming a community ritual. Over time the rituals develop and stories associated with that landwight develop. It gets a name at some point. When is this a god? In Iceland I think of Bárður, the ás (´god´) of Snæfellsnes (The Snow-mountain peninsula). Definitely more of a local figure, but given the name god.
Thoughts before watching: I don't see how not? Our world is ever changing. So our beliefs could evolve as well. Not saying we could/should replace any of our Gods, but I think creating new ones, even for personal practice, is very doable. I have a very hard time believing that our ancestors didn't do this same thing.
And what about gods of a town or village in the past? They certainly came into existence after the town and village was established
@@TheWisdomOfOdin totally!
Pagans believe in a multitude of gods and spirits maybe this Heikki Lunta is the local winter spirit/god after all the pagan concept of a god is really more like a benevolent protector spirit than the abrahamic concept of god or the greek/roman concept of a god as a divine king over a particular aspect of creation. The pagan/Indo-european concept is quite different. Deities in pagan traditions were often quite local.
Hi Jacob. I have been a follower of your channel for some time although Celtic, rather than Norse. You have posed a vexed question. My comment on the existence of, say, Odin is that he became known to mankind when he introduced himself to us, not when someone made his name up. For me it would be the same for all Gods and Goddesses. Another comment is that, say with Cernunnos, it is likely that the Iron Age Celts would offer sacrifices to him, we are told he likes meat. Thankfully we no longer make sacrifice of any living being, or should not, but some might cut off a corner of their steak. However we do not believe the power of the God has been lessened by this change - by making such changes are we not reinventing the God? Also, what if an unknown deity should make himself/herself aware to me in a dream and over the next week or so takes other action to boost my knowledge. I believe that I would be correct in observing that deity, but probably should not make it known to others. I could go on for ages.
Far as I can tell, after 30 or 40 years of studying them, the "Gods" are pretty much all the same, from culture to culture. They have different names, and are often represented as Angels, Spirits, Legends, and sometimes Demons, instead of Gods. They are nearly always there in some form however, and their duties remain either very similar, or the same, from culture to culture. So why not? If they actually exist, they are used to being adapted to different cultures by now. I adopted Inari-Okami years ago because among several of her other aspects that apply to me, S/he is the patron of Bladesmiths, which is what I was learning to do at that time.
Inari -"Blacksmiths, Bladesmiths, Warriors, Craftsmanship, Fertility, Agriculture, Sake, and Industry"....
Ptah - craftsmanship, and industry
Vulcan - (Blacksmiths and Craftsmanship
Hephaestus - (metalworking, craftsmanship, and the creation of weapons
Athena - strategic warfare, skill in battle, and the protection of cities
Weyland the Smith
Kokopelli (Hopi and Zuni)
That's just a few of the better known Names. There are many more, spread across other cultures. My own DNA is mostly Gaelic.... Goibniu (blacksmithing, metalworking, and craftsmanship, "the Divine Brewer"), Brigid (healing, fertility, and smithcraft), Lugh (Mastery of Arts and Crafts, skilled Blacksmith and Warrior).
I agree, this is something that i have noitced as well
I'm not technically spiritual, but I like to take part in the practices because there's something so wonderful an and human about them, so if these new made up ones make people equally happy then it's a good thing, whether they actually believe in the thing or not. Great video :)
A god has always just been humans giving something of nature or the universe a name and a human form to better relate to it (same is true for nature spirits etc.). And, as you say, all gods have always been made up by humans, so if we feel the need to make up new ones, why shouldn't we? It's just as valid as the question if we need gods at all to relate to the world or if we maybe manage to rather learn the language of a being, an ecosystem or an abstract concept and lean in instead of trying to translate everything for the human mind and thereby maybe missing some of its essence, which might get lost in translation.
Great topic! It made me think of the show American Gods and how people created the new gods like Mr. World & Tech Boy. Enough people bringing attention to something and believing it therefore creating it and utilizing it keeps it in existence. Can we create new gods? Well, I agree to the yes and no because the old ones came into creation at least in humans minds somehow. We won’t get into the chicken or egg theory if they have always been around or not.😄
I’m a Panentheistic Pantheist. God is All and Lives in All, and His Manifestations are Boundless.
Besides, we can ask the Old Gods to manifest to us through the Land, and we should all be doing this, because this is in my experience how we get to know their local aspects.
May I suggest Upanishadic philosophy?
@@hawktalk639 you may indeed. Why so?
@@porphyriontimotheoios1107 I invite you to read the Upanishads are see for yourself. I think you are on to something.
@@hawktalk639 I guess I’ll have to take up Sanskrit
@@porphyriontimotheoios1107 Thankfully there are plenty of english translations! But I'm sure reading it in Sanskrit would be extra cool.
Was this god really made up though? Or did he contact the guy who made him up, and convinced his subconscious to make that song for him? It could have been a local landspirit, or perhaps one that came with the people from Finland, who has now become an actual local god.
It's tough because in this scenario, it causes no harm and has been a bringer of good. Yet, is this a god or more of a character link to winter celebrations? - again, i don't think this causes any harm, but it's tough to say where to draw the line.
The way Odin explained it to me is my focus on him "creates and sustains" him, because we are all begin "creation" with our minds, including him. He said his name is his "aspect" in an old language, and part of the reason he has so many names. All the Gods are aspects of the Source and their names where that aspect in their original language. When we call on a God, we are calling for those aspects to come into yourself, so this God can manifest through us. So, all our superheroes in stories are Gods in the making. Good reason to be careful who and what you focus on. So, the song was a very powerful "spell" from a modern Bard.
In solomanic and high magick these concepts are known as thought forms. They are not the same as gods just forms people put beliefs behind. And you can conceptualize em into any role you deem. However they just have a role to play, you can however over time have em achieve the level of deity, however majority of the time, overtime they become soured and turn into gollums or malevolent beings. Same thing happened with the guardian thought forms that Native American shaman created to protect burial sites. The creator dies off and there’s no one to keep them inline. Then you wind up with stuff my brother has on his property where it’s more like a poltergeist than anything else. And honestly it’s more of a disservice to em, cause they have no purpose anymore.
Now there are beings such as Squat, who is a finder and procurer of parking spaces in cities, however it’s just there for such purposes and was setup to be open to anyone. But it’s strictly and severely limited in its power.
Squat is fantastic. I’ve only ever needed him once but he really delivered.
Why not, it's not like it's a new concept
I have thought about this exact question for awhile now. For me I'm a hard polytheist so I do believe Woden, Thunor, Ing etc do exist as distinct beings, but at the same time who's to say that, even if they do exist as conscious beings, they weren't given life long ago by someone or a community and their worship spread?
I like the idea we can create or, as someone said below me, reconnect to forgotten Gods. Spirituality is complex and so is the universe at large, so why couldn't this be possible? That's not say Gods are only in our heads or start out that way. I do believe the universe was created by the Gods, but I'm also open minded to this possibility. I also think that, if someone did create their own Gods, even if they don't exist as literal beings, other Gods would take on those forms and interact with them in that way since it would be the way they'd be comfortable in accepting (I hope that makes sense lol, I don't know how to explain it).
I see it as people celebrating the spirit of winter. Who cares what name they give it. Some people get too uptight about the details. All Gods/Goddesses were made up at some point. What counts is the spiritualness of celebrating the seasons and nature, the turning of the wheel of the year. That's my thought.
I never thought of this until I watched the American Gods show~ ( disclaimer its not like the book)~ the implication was that humans are creating new gods from T.V. and media. Thats kind of a scary thought to worship media but an interesting topic.
I think it depends on what your definition of a god is. I think a person may have a profound unsolicited experience and could attribute it to a god and subsequently apply a name to that god if they chose to continue trying to connect with it.
Posting this 2:44 minutes into the video, but Heikkil Luna sounds a lot like borrowed and modified version of Jack Frost to me. I don't know if Jack Frost is, or ever was a deity in any other culture. But if you look at how the Romans borrowed from the Greeks pantheon of gods. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the Germanic deities were the foundation of the Norse deities. I forgot the youtubers channel, but her tried to recreate the Indo-European pantheon just like how linguistics have tried to recreate the Indo-European language. In closing and I should have said this from the beginning I don't consider my self a Pagan of any kind but is looks like to me as humans cultures change over time the roles of the deities change as well.
Jedi religion is based off the monks. So it makes sense
I'm in Ohio when I love Michigan. In fact, my dna comes from a lot of Northwest settlers in Michigan. I'm wondering if that's the 1% of finlandi have very interesting. I'm gonna have to check this out.
I wouldn't say make up all God's have to have there story's built by others or no one will ever know them and who they are.
Just started watching, but I don't think we can invent gods. We can discover gods sure, and many have been lost. By chance maybe that snow storm in Michigan was a native spirit that said you know what that's my name now.
Or maybe music is just magic so it helped anyway. Or coincidental and maybe it wasn't magic/divine at all.
There's a fine line between "rediscovering" and just making up new ones ;)
It'll never be answered because it is literally a chicken or the egg debate lol
@@TheWisdomOfOdin Hey if I was a Native spirit barely making it for centuries because my tribe got wiped out, the name
Heikki Lunta might not be a bad thing to take.
Just a spirit taking an open job because it has nothing going for it.
@@TheWisdomOfOdin Speaking of new gods, have you heard of the Rat Hole in Chicago and the new religion Ratology?
So could this new deity become canon in the Finnish mythos?
I’ve asked this of local pagans, but I never get a real answer. I am a Pagan of the Hellenic variety, but I am also a science kind of pagan. I believe the Gods exist, but I don’t put stock in things I think of as superstitious, like Tarot, astrology, ghosts, etc. What does that make me?
Isn't that a central aspect of LDS that through their belief they can achieve divine status and become Gods of their own planet system?
Haha I’m talking about winter gods and forest spirits. I don’t know what crack they are smoking 😂
No
Humanity created all the gods. I don’t mean that gods don’t exist, but that the imagery, names, iconography, etc., are things we have lain upon them in order to understand them. Is this invented god real? I suppose if you consider that it is part of the spirit of Winter, dormancy, rest, a cycle of death before a renewal, etc., then yes, it is real. Maybe some people call it something else, like Persephone or Ullr, Boreas or Khione, Morana or Beira. Heikki Lunta is an expression of the influence of that divine power on those specific people. One that may grow into an aspect of that power that is truly worshipped.
By the way, things like Jedi are not so much religions as they are philosophies.
Before watching the video, it would depend how you believe gods are created. Were the gods creators or creations of humans, did gods or humans come about without the influence of the other? You can give something that was around before you a new name, but does that change its nature? Or does speaking a name create something wholly new and unique? Conservation of energy would indicate nothing is truly new and unique.
I thought in pagan mythology it was ancestors become gods
There are different Pagan mythologies, not just one universal one. But from my tradition of Germanic Paganism (and my understanding of it), ancestors, while important, don't become Gods. Gods are distinct from humans.
I think communities and cultures can create new gods, but not in the sense that an individual can just make up a new god and it exists right away. That's not a deity, just a concept of one. It would take time for the concept to become ingrained into local culture at a spiritual level. How much time? I guess that just depends how deeply the community is spiritually connected to that entity. A couple of generaitons? A couple of centuries? Who knows. I don't think Heiki Lunta is there yet.
Haha yeah I would agree Heikki Lunta is a fun idea. But there isn’t enough culture or belief to make it anything tangible
If you think the gods were just made up, why bother? I find a priest who doesn't believe in the gods to be disturbing. I believe the gods were real beings, who came to Earth. Some of the modern takes on them are made up or exaggerated, but the base of their story is true and they are real beings. That being said, thank you for your take on the question.
People create their own Spirits all the time; it's called Servitor magick. I'm not sure about creating a god though..
The way i see it, our focus on the gods give them power. While im primarily shifting more towards norse Paganism, i also work with and worship baphomet. Many see him not as a deity, but myself and others see him and worship him as one.
Hail Apophenia!
Can we make up new Gods? Yes and no.
Yes, we could all collectively agree to start worshipping Beerus from Dragon Ball, but he would not be a real God. It would eventually become a powerful egregore, but it would not be a true God.
With that being said, *should* we make up new gods? In my opinion we should not. Actually I think it would be quite disrespectful for someone to incorporate something like the Flying Spaghetti Monster into their practice.
Who are we to say that we know all the names of existing gods. That would be some pretty arrogant thought process there. We may not know the names of them, so any attention that god may get would get their attention even if they didn't know their name precisely.
i'm good with celebrations...experiencing seasons and moments...i don't subscribe to religions of any kind but i understand some folks like and need the community aspects and rituals...it's why i decided not to follow wicca...i'm a solitary pagan and prefer a more communal relationship with nature instead of worshipping any gods/goddesses....so short answer is yes 🤷♀️ all gods are made up by humans...why should we be different just because we are "modern"? we don't need something to worship...we choose to worship imaginary deities...
So, basically you like nature and celebrations, but you don't believe in God's? Not really Pagan
🤷♀️ perhaps heathen is the correct term...an atheistic heathen...i don't need to worship anything or anyone...and i believe any and all gods are human created
@@betmo Fair enough
I wouldn't be interested in worshipping something I created
Not trying to insult, anger or trigger anyone but we have created new gods.
People who would later be called disciples started writing about a certain carpenter that was crucified.
Those writings didn't begin until nearly 100 years after the crucifixion.
He was promoted from rabi to godhood.
God’s make us up. Why not make up them?
No. You should probs focus on the Gods you apparently worshipped until views dropped. Until the Hall ...
I remember when i was a norse pagan, i used to watch you. But then i saw jesus christ at work and it radically changed my view on god. Im a devout christian now i wasnt on drugs, i wasnt sleeping and i wasnt hallucinating. I saw christ and i felt the presence of the holy spirit and just god in general. I practiced asatru, read the havamal the prose edda, countless books about Nordic and germanic mythology. I i worshipped The gods that my ancestors worshipped. And they werent even real. I was opposed to Christianity, sincerely opposed to it. But i got humbled and had to acknowledge the existence of jesus christ. I hope you all get the same moment. Were closer to his second coming then people think.
Deists are so silly.
Do you mean literal Deists? Like those who believe a God or Gods created the universe and then let it play out on its own? Or did you mean to say Theists but slipped up and said Deists instead? I would suggest in either case not to be such an ass. No one knows if a God or Gods exist, I'll be upfront about that, but to me it makes much more sense than thinking this whole universe just randomly got to where it was,
Sure, it could have happened, but at the same time, as someone who has put thought into it and isn't some idiot like you seem to think all believers are, I'd say it didn't.
Either way, who cares at the end of the day? I swear, some atheists are just as bad as those Theists they say to be better than.
Absolutely not. Its spiritually counter productive and blasphemous. Its one thing to believe in the concept of God in an abstract capacity in which you disagree with an established sect but making one up has nothing to do with reality and is in fact blasphemous and just sick... You mention in your first sentence that each God was initially brought into existence via the words and thoughts of men. I disagree with that and I doubt its what you meant. I believe in the concept of a very real existence of many Gods far predating any human let alone their intellect or language thats been passed down. God predates man in almost every serious faith.. Its difficult enough for devout worshipers to trace back worship practices and sacred knowledge via books and historical records without encouraging schizzo level LARPing. Encouraging this type of behavior takes away from the credibility of ones faith. Im saying this as someone who plans on investing over $200000 in the next few years on purchasing and renovating retail space in Eastern Europe to build a healthy space that provides high quality religious materials focusing on books from serious authors while including candles incense and statues to supplement worship and make high quality materials affordable for Eastern European budgets. Its a passion project of a lifetime and if done right will not be a heavy profit driver but support the faith based community while weeding out the negative stuff so many of us encounter in these spaces.. I rack my brain constantly on how we can conceptualize this space into something that encourages faith and education without imposing dogmatic rhetoric while filtering out the aspects of these communities and practices that are without a doubt magnets for LARPing and unhealthy behavior and black magic. People that practice worshiping Gods from older religions face enough discrimination without grifters selling mattel Oujia boards while doing cleansings and contacting dead family members for an hourly fee for sickos that watched a little to much anime and Vikings while playing God of War. We neec more books more prayer and less lifestyle branding and Hot Topic level dumb assery. We should be setting examples and competing with the church not running mall kiosks for mentally at risk goths and gamers.. I rarely if ever rant about this stuff but Jacob encountering this behaviour is pure poison to the tenth degree. There is enough misinformation and knowledge lost through time politics and miscommunication without promoting free wheeling medeival fair larping to fringe personalities via RUclips. I mean seriously J would you walk such a stupid ugly question up to any of the various religious communities you have interacted with and expect them to not be offended when you compare their faith to the church of the Jedi or Lord of the Rings? We live in a world with a very diverse deep and rich conceptualization of the spiritual and different cultures have the blessing and curse of different experiences. Its important to keep an open mind and heart but also take things serious. Encouraging make believe isnt faith. Its spitting in the face of it. I encourage people to visit museums read books pray take pilgrimages and have faith. With this stuff the more you know the less you know and faith in addition to levity are such key components to not get lost.. promoting the perpetuation of false information for the sake of feeling good is some next level RUclips scum baggery. Im not saying your promoting it or a scumbag either.. its just not a line to skirt or promote debate on... This isnt a grey area.
Encouraging this behavior 😂?
Simply reporting on an interesting phenomenon and discussing it is hardly encouraging it.
Take that stick out of your ass my dude. It’s blocking your vision 😂
@@TheWisdomOfOdinActually edited my post and added quite a bit including my last sentence that clarifies what I mean. I don't consider what you did promoting it. You don't strike me as the type intellectually.. I just don't think it's a line to skirt or promote debate on. Please reread my edit because my words were chosen poorly and it wouldn't be fair to put words in your mouth or accuse you of that. I just don't think playing devil's advocate with clearly poisonous counter productive behavior is the right move either. Various communities face enough discrimination without what if scenarios in the place of what should be a collective shunning of abhorrent unhealthy behavior from sick low intellect people. We need to promote education. Sorry if I'm a bit emotional about it. I'm truly sick of the whack jobs you mentioned in this video getting a free ride to take a piss on the faith of others. It's essentially the equivalent of promoting black face. There's a lot of history and pain and discrimination and oppression that people deal with now let alone our ancestors in various faiths. It should be taken seriously. I absolutely have a stick up my ass about it. So would anyone at any church in America. Sorry I give a fuck. I think you should to in a different capacity that promotes intellectualism vs. rebranding the vampire larping psychosis of the 2000s
@@TheWisdomOfOdin I actually was mid edit while you replied. It's unfair to accuse you of promoting this behavior. I added quite a bit to my thoughts while clarifying what I meant before you even replied. Sorry for wording my self very poorly. With that said I absolutely have a stick up my you know what and I think you should to regarding this behavior. You are a public figure in the community and highly intelligent from what I've seen. Faith based communities face enough discrimination and discreditation from Christians and the scientific atheist community without encouraging the fringe unhealthy less serious elements of our faiths into doubling down on their nut jobbery. By encourage I mean debate.. you wouldn't debate the morality of someone throwing up black face and making up an ancestor to go to an NAACP meeting. You wouldn't encourage going full Fight Club and making up stories at a trauma focused group meeting. People's faith and their religion are sacred. Pagans and even Buddhists etc face discrimination in Western society by the Christian right and atheists focused on science.. I personally no longer have a relationship with my birth mother as a result of it. I strongly feel this isn't a grey area to be debated on. It's abhorrent behavior to make up God's.. as a recreational activity and it's deeply disrespectful to equate it to actual faith worship and religion.. When outside factions tie our wagon to this 2000s era Vampire LARPing it sets every faith community back tenfold intellectually.
Wow. Are you okay? You seem like there’s something else going on to be this angry and insulting to so many people in one comment.
@@OrionWisehartAbsolutely 😊 I just don't want to tie my worship or anyone elses or the credibility of various religions from a educational and historical perspective or their spiritual sciences to the FD up at risk socially poisonous trash I very intentionally insulted for very good reason.
You have the name Orion in your name. I have spent years trying to study pre Greek religion via information from Minoan and Lycian historical records to better worship those Gods.Apollo predates Greece and it's been a goal of mine to dig deeper into Lycian and Minoan practices regarding his cults or Athena/Malija I don't want to entertain the lifestyle larping when I'm visiting Greek historical sites while praying silently at the Parthenon in between having to read five different narratives on Orion and Artemis watered down for tourists on museum placards across the US and Greece all while Christian tour groups loudly claim the Parthenon as a site in which Christ defeated the Greeks via a megaphone. F them and F you to if you don't get it Gandalf Grey Beard.. it's tedious enough process without having to deal with that while I sift through black nationalist kemet videos and 30 second myth videos all while the RUclips personalities ask the stupid questions like this..
I literally had to deal with middle schoolers making pee pee jokes about Poseidon's statues while visiting Sounion last summer. I guess I've developed a zero tolerance policy for the BS. I realize and respect each soul is on cosmic time and not my time and at a different place in their own journey but not taking a hard stance on stupidity is a slippery slope. Especially when the faith communities are always under attack in respect to their credibility.
I had to deal with enough discrimination from my agnostic doctor lawyer and arts based neighbors in Downtown Pittsburgh for setting up my penthouse loft with altars to different Gods without having my non Christian faith tied to spiritually and socially at risk sick weirdos making up fictional religions once they graduate from samurai sword fighting with a broom stick in their back yard. 😅