It is CRYSTAL CLEAR what's happening here. Really unhinged behaviour on this author's part. Good for you for standing your ground and sending such a structured email 😄
Okay, the pyre thing annoyed me. Like, I have a lot of religious trauma. Does that mean I should MOVE to Asia to avoid all the Christian nations? Does that mean I disrespect religion because I need to engage with it carefully. I have a trigger to Keurig coffee makers! People don't get to chose what their triggers are, and to pretend someone's trigger makes them an immoral person is, frankly, disgusting and SO damaging.
The fact that both your review and H.L. Moore's review were mostly positive (a 3/5 is a solid score, especially for a debut novel!) makes the whole thing even weirder. If this is how Borgia and her fans react to reviews that are only slightly critical of her work, I'd hate to see how'd they react to actual negative reviews.
@Medidon94 Oh yeah, it didn't go well. At that time, I do believe another reviewer gave it a 1 or 2 star (can't remember), and they also jumped on them. I didn't include every review because of video length. But yeah, it seemed only a 5-star would do 🙄
@@HLMOOREWRITES Leave Wine and her book alone you loser. Getr a life. It's all you posted about for a week and she has responded and you erase her response. Total, complete POS.
@JaneDanvers77 if you watched the video, you would see that: -she provides photo proof of her own allegations of harassment -she never accused you of being a white supremacist -she never said that funeral pyres aren't natural or a part of your culture -trigger warnings are not implying something is evil, it's just that someone has trauma around that & may need to prepare themselves or avoid it also, speaking as a trans person: disliking something made by a trans person does not make that person transphobic unless they dislike it *because* the creator is trans, which is not the case here. people don't need to force themselves to enjoy your stuff just because you're marginalized. that's not a hate crime. so many people understand this concept, including myself. I know my writing is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. this is normal. you can't please everyone &, in fact, shouldn't try. I write for myself & if other people happen to like it, that's great. negative criticisms make me sad, yeah, & it may feel like an attack sometimes, but it really isn't, & no amount of arguing & defensiveness is going to make it a five star review. it's not a matter of fact but of opinion. my opinion is I (the target audience) like my books. that's all that matters. you really aren't doing yourself any favours here. I mean it genuinely & in good faith when I say please stop looking at reviews. stop responding. delete your sockpuppet accounts. stop making new ones. get off the internet entirely if you have to. it's not healthy for both your mental health & career to focus this much on it. if you're reading this comment in a condescending, mean-spirited tone, reread it in a more neutral one because that is where I'm coming from. you're allowed to be irritated by things, just don't make a mountain out of a molehill. at least, not where everyone you're complaining about can hear you.
Speaking as a writer, REVIEWS ARE NOT FOR US. We write, we get the book into the best shape we possibly can, we label it appropriately. We cannot bully people into receiving the book well, and we are not entitled to 5-star reviews. Unless we're looking to read something new ourselves, we do not belong in the review space. Thank you!
Thank you for posting this. I don't think I've ever seen an author with a thinner skin! I'm a writer myself. If you can't handlr criticism you have NO BUSINESS being a writer! Stand firm, Kat, don't let them intimidate you!
The worst part is I would have picked up the book based on your 3 star review (except the Elon Musk thing that kind of grosses me out). And now I won’t be.
god it's January and we already have some unhinged authors...Kudos to you for sticking up for yourself and staying calm! Hope this story gets popular so people know to not read anything by this author!
Thank you for speaking out about this, H.L Moore and i are friends and she has been sharing updates since this whole thing started. The specific choice of using Lilith as the name for the main character whilst being antisemitic to a jewish author is not lost on me. It is also surprisingly not shocking either. It has been well documented by jewish feminists that jews are often left out of feminism by non jewish feminists. And there are also many instances of feminists using lilith, who originated from jewish texts. to exclude jewish women from feminist movements and spaces. Then there is the whole thing if lilith not being a feminist icon in jewish text but a demon who does objectively messed up things, but that is a tangent for another day.
Yeah, that aspect is especially heinous. No one said anything about the author (being a transwoman/a person of color/from Thailand), and yet, Moore being Jewish was an element of their comments. It was so uncalled for 👎
I admit, if I had a published work, I might take a peak at the rating people are giving it to see if people liked my work, but I wouldn't actually read the reviews themselves because I don't really want to know what people are saying about it. If it's an average or below score, I could just ask people send me feedback directly so I know what to work on rather than target reviews meant for other readers, because reviews aren't feedback.
I don't know who that is (sorry real Luke Korns!) so I didn't catch that. But it tracks. Because part 2 (coming soon) includes the impersonation of a Tor publishing house VP in a potential email phishing scheme. Wild is correct. 🎣
@@biblioobscura Luke is a youtuber! He has 2.4 million suscribers which why I found using his name an picture absolutely wild, they could've gone for anyone but they chose a person with that much exposure... This story is absolutely wild and I'm so sorry you have been getting harrassed for expressing an opinion.
Didn't the "lawyer" said Wine had social anxiety and thus no social media, including GR? I'm a reviewer with anxiety and an author bullied me into a panic attack over a 3 star review I gave their book. She even admitted to knowing she wasnt supposed to privately contact reviewers. I still review, but I'm scared to give even 3 stars (which, to me, 3 stars means the book was ok, good, not great, not bad). I'm working to overcome this review anxiety, and already doing better than when this all occured +/-6mos ago.
@HLMOOREWRITES thank you, truly. 🤗 I'll be the first to admit that I'm sensitive to that sort of stuff. But it actually helps ease my mind to hear you say all of that, especially that it was unethical of the author. And it gives me the courage to get back to reviewing. After all, reviews are for readers, like you said.
Wow, that's ridiculous. No one should feel bullied into a specific star rating or a particular review. Just a thought, isn't it possible to leave a review without giving a star rating? Did you change the stars? I could go on the book and give the star rating. 😁
@BookZealots it is generally, but I was reviewing through a book PR company and they require star ratings. I wanted SO badly to drop a star, but since it was through a PR company, decided I shouldn't. To me, 3 stars isn't even a "bad" rating, just mediocre (which tbh was generous for this book 😂). An author who's 40+ telling me I'm too old to enjoy new adult (I'm 41) - I definitely won't read anything by this author again.
@@vanillasnowflake Oh yes, I understand your situation and not wanting to drop the star. Three stars in my rating is good. Two is okay. Those are the goodreads ratings. One is I didn't like it. Most of my ratings are three. Good books transcend age groupings. It sounds like whomever wrote it is too sensitive to be an author.
If an author is not going to be able to handle the fact that not everyone will love their book, they should find another line of work. Also it is repugnant when people act like any and all criticism of any kind directed at someone of marginalized identity constitutes bigotry. It is definitely true that a lot of POC authors, trans authors, etc, will get BS and hate reviews simply because the person is prejudiced, but that does not mean every single critical or negative review is based purely in prejudice. Being trans isn't some get out of a-hole jail free card which gives the person full license to behave as abominably as they wish. Ugh. (Edit to add that a review of a book is obviously not criticism of the author, but some authors sure seem to take them that way!)
You're not being sued, you're being harrassed and I'm sorry you're dealing with this. AND, not like they have a leg to stand on anyway, they're claiming the WRONG offense. "Slander" is spoken defamation. "Libel" is written defamation. You have done neither, but since this was a written review, Libel would be the correct thing they want to be laughed out of a courtroom for.
Just started watching this vid, at 12:57, and bro its so clear these are all the same person using alts or at least multiple people using alts, either way this is crazy.
I'm getting flashbacks to the time when a once-respected historian, Orlando Figes, disgraced himself by using sockpuppet accounts to puff his own books on Amazon...
This is absolutely UNHINGED The fact that they would threaten to dox you and HL Moore (especially as a transwoman but let's not get into that) is absolutely disproportionate retaliatory behaviour. I am so sorry for the stress this whole ordeal must be causing you. I reported the author for harassment on Goodreads and linked both this video and HL Moore's blog post as evidence, and I hope they take disciplinary action soon. We CANNOT let this kind of behaviour fly as a community
I would say Moore and I are online friends, so I'm here from her updated blog post and I want to thank you for speaking about this and bringing it to wider attention. There's absolutely no excuse for people to be harassed in this way (or at all, for that matter). All of this over book reviews that weren't even negative! If this is what people think supporting authors looks like, I'm in despair and, I'll be honest, it's put me off even considering reading anything by this author in the future. I hope you and Moore can put all of this behind you soon.
@@mariereadsbooks Thanks for your kind words. I would say I hope so, too, but I'm currently writing the script for part 2 as some truly CRAZY stuff has gone down after I posted this video. 😬
@@JosephKelly-uj1zo please, joseph, tell me: how did they attacked the author? What was there to warrant a lawsuit? Genuinely, like, seriously genuinely, was there something important omitted in obscura's video? Or was everything in the video all there was to it?
....MY JAW IS ON THE FLOOR. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of this???? Bloody damn, what an unhinged nightmare. 😳 I too love a good list...and very much admire the one you made in the response. ~
this is a far wider issue involving amazon reviews, social media accounts, apartment reviews, pretty much everywhere commerce happens. i am frequently contacted about the average/poor reviews i leave.
This is absolute insanity. Thank you for sharing. This isn't a book I'd be interested in reading, but I went to goodreads and gave you and another reviewer a thumbs up. I appreciate trigger warnings. There are certain things in books I have zero interest in reading. And it sounds like, either the author or her cohorts got triggered by the trigger warnings. People that sensitive shouldn't read reviews of their books. Thank you for sharing and I hope Ms. Moore keeps her author account.
This is so ridiculous, upsetting and frustrating - reviews are for readers and if authors don't like what readers/reviewers are saying, there's always the option to not read the reviews. 😬
The writer should’ve just let it be, and not even pay that close attention to reviews. A person making a review is still word of mouth of your book, positive or negative. This just makes him… look horrible.
Re: Funeral pyre TW I don't have a trigger for fire either but I just read a book that included witch burnings & I'd really appreciate a heads up instead of stumbling into it blind. Including details like this in your reviews is a godsend!!
I always appreciate people like you who include TWs because, while I don’t have a trigger for burning bodies, I DO have others including a trigger for water and/or drowning. But I guess that makes me oceanphobic 😢
Authors know that there's this thing called fair use right? And that for a public figure like someone whose name is on a book it's much harder to prove defamation because you actually have to prove actual malice. All they did was waste money having a lawyer write a letter.
Thank you so much for your video. This was freaky. It seems like this writer, Wine lo Borgias, needs specialized help. These are signs of a true psychopath or narcissist. How is it that book reviews have not taken action against this person?
Authors are wilding out lately. For a while, actually, and something needs to be done about it either legally or among publishers. I'm not sure what, but this behavior can't continue. Enough is enough. Authors need to stop being allowed to run amok and terrorize readers for not giving 5 star reviews.
So odd to do this over a 3 stars review. I honestly look at 3 star reviews before picking a book because a lot of the times they are “this just wasn’t for me because xyz” and they usually have a quick summary of any style/content issues. If I had just read your review before all the comments from new private accounts, I probably would have been intrigued enough to pick it up.
The newly created sock puppet accounts following you all the way to your RUclips comments (!!!) is insane lmao. Thank you for this video. I’m sorry you have to deal with all this but you’re handling it majestically. I’ll definitely be checking out that other author who’s getting harassed by totally not Wine.
lots of people neglect that part of the craft because "thats what editors are for" and while they're helpful and all that, it's a pretty poor excuse for people who claim to love writing to refuse polishing it
I'm a writer who is finally getting brave enough to write with the intention of publishing. I can't imagine being in reviewer spaces attacking reviewers in ANY capacity, let alone threatening to sue over OPINION. Holy hell. If you can't handle criticism (which this review didn't even really HAVE...it was mostly just facts about the book's contents) you don't need to be a writer. If a 3 star review sends you spiraling into a defensive attack where you feel the need to either gather an army to fight for you or to create a bunch of alts, you've lost the damned plot. What tf would she do with a 1 star review (which judging from the sorry state of the "writing" of her/her team's comments and emails is probably more appropriate)? Stay out of reviewer spaces if you can't stand the heat. For someone so defensive about funeral pyres, she really is triggered by a light roasting of her book. An author should value all reviews, especially ones that go into such depth and took so much time to write as the ones mentioned here. The criticisms are absolutely gold for an author, even more value than a glowing review. They tell you where you might want to tighten up your writing, where you made a mistake, and where you still have work to do. I've been writing for 38 years and a scathing comment about everything I did wrong is what's going to not only tell me that someone actually READ what I wrote, but also where I need to put more work in. I would feel HONORED to have someone take this much time to write a review because they CARED enough (one way or another) about my work to put in that time and effort to tell others about it. To then BULLY and THREATEN them? Omg. That infuriates me because authors that would LOVE those reviews might not ever have the chance to get them if these people succeed in chasing away reviewers with their unhinged responses. Show a little bit of respect and appreciation for reviewers who READ YOUR WORK and felt strongly enough to write more than one line that said, "I liked it/didn't like it." Holy hell. I'm going to be ranting all day about this (maybe longer). Say a little prayer for EVERYONE I know because I'm just not going to be able to shut up about it. Sorry this is so long. And I'm doubly sorry there's so many authors out there acting like fools. Reviewers don't deserve that at ALL. I hope one day I have the honor of having MY book reviewed by ANYONE. I already have plans to print out and frame every single one I get and put them on my office wall :D
Went over to the clock app to see if booktok got a hold of this already and… crickets? The search is clear of anything - even positive reviews. The author’s account is also privated. For a debut author? That’s super super odd. 🤔
@belle132 I only post on Goodreads and RUclips, so I haven't posted this video on Booktok at all (I don't have Tiktok). Feel free to do so if you want 🙏 🙏 🙏
Thank you for talking about this. This whole drama is exhausting even though they stopped targeting me. I guess with only a handful of people in on this, they only had time to be racist liars.🙄✊
This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith. It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons. I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family. Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it. Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture. This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved. I was not nor will I ever be. I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life. I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing. It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence. ~ Wine Lo ~ Yin Dii~ With Great Respect (in Thai)
Attacking someone you never met, have no business with, and who never contacted you is exhausting? Seems to be Kat's reason to get out of bed in the morning. Tran bully POS. Post this by the way. Coward.
No but why would you ever argue (or sue for defamation ...) with a rewiev, when there's an implicit assumption that this is an _opinion_ 😭 like what Edit: gwah ... is it an author being chronically online and creating a bunch of fake goodreads accounts AGAIN?.. (IN MY OPINION, for any trigger happy lilith superfans)
Unfortunately, maybe yes, but even worse. Her husband said he's going to doxx us, which is a criminal offense where we live. The tea is coming soon and it is scalding.
@@biblioobscura 💀💀💀 that's the way to deal with criticism. Ig she's not chronically online enough, if sssniperwolf's story taught her nothing about doxxing
I love that TikToker that reads the court transcripts lol the reaction is so weird. Your review was so milk toast? Not in the disrespectful way I just mean it feels like such a common type of review? I literally see nothing disrespectful in it at all. Not to mention the funeral pyre thing people give trigger warnings for American type of funerals as well. If a book details embalming that would be quite triggering to some people. How odd
@soda_fairy Right??? I usually never even mention the author in my reviews (other than what they prefer to go by "he/she/they" and where they're from). So I was taken aback by my "attack." I was like, where??? 🤔 And yeah, the funeral pyre thing made it very clear they didn't understand what trigger warnings in book reviews were for 🙃
@@biblioobscura This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith. It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons. I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family. Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it. Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture. This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved. I was not nor will I ever be. I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life. I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing. It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence. ~ Wine Lo ~ Yin Dii~ With Great Respect (in Thai)
Moore is a good digital friend of mine, and she sent me this link and her blog post. It sucks that the two of you are being so targeted, but I’m glad you’re both clearly confident and powerful enough to parse the situation critically and publicly articulate your defense with a bit of humor and disbelief at the ridiculousness of it all. I can only imagine the sort of damage this behavior could do to the psyche of someone less secure in their presence in the world. Have a comment and a like to feed the algorithm, and I’ll be sure to donate if it turns out you actually need a legal defense fund! (I managed to type that with a straight face. Barely.)
@FantismalSpider Thanks for your kind words. It totally sucks, but I feel way worse for Moore, who is having her professional Goodreads and Amazon store front attacked. So unprofessional.
@JaneDanvers77 Wait, what? The author never contacted either Kat or Moore, but also Kat has had a statement from the author 'for 3 days'? How does that make sense? Also how do you know all this? Where are you getting your info?
@JaneDanvers77 Sweetie, learn how to comprehend words and take time to understand what these two incredible women are saying before you react. BOTH of them are giving Wine so much grace, encouragement, and benefit of the doubt. It's Wine's supporters (like you, since you are absolutely definitely not Wine herself), who they are disappointed with. People like you are ruining Wine's book for them and for future readers. You are actively hurting that which you purport to love. The best thing you can do to support Wine and her book is to take a deep breath and close all tabs talking about her book and never go back to them. Pick up her book instead and reread it to remind yourself of the awesome story you enjoyed, and eagerly await the next installment for your own enjoyment. And now, with that being said, I trust you'll be mature enough to take my advice and not respond to me because you've closed this tab. Regardless, I'm going to take my own advice and ignore anything else you have to say to me, because I refuse to engage any longer in a conversation that could further damage the reputation of a debut author.
I'm sorry. That's just awful. I think we're in a society now where this kind of behavior is becoming more and more accepted and it's not right. I guess it makes me want to stay away from those types of books because I now expect their authors to be unhinged.
It seems the author has a lot of accounts. And I would suggest he give up plans on being a professional author. Being an author is always putting yourself up for critical review, that goes with the territory. It isn't for the too fragile. It's a way to grow and learn as an author. He will never be better than this less than satisfactory work.
That's simply not true. I don't like your victim blaming sentiment. Racism and transphobia are real issues and are affecting people and their work in real life. There aren't many people who would claim offence over something that didn't happen. Fun fact, if you've watched the continuation to this video - this person is most likely a white man from new york. So when minorities bring to your attention the bigotry they face, believe them.
I'm not going to lie. The picture in the Amazon author profile and the fact that Lilith is their only book makes me feel like this is actually another author with a pseudonym and maybe not even a trans lady author at all. 🤔
Im sorry, but I feel any judge would laugh if anything like this actually came into their courtroom and probably also face-palm, like wtf is going on. xD Also whats up with people making up fake legal emails that seem like a child wrote them?
@@rb2042 This was erased last night because Kat doesn't want you to see the truth. She is a loser who has been harassing Wine for over a week. Wine's husband is getting involved and will respond shortly by posting their real names. This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith. It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons. I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family. Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it. Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture. This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved. I was not nor will I ever be. I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life. I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing. It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence. ~ Wine Lo ~ Yin Dii~ With Great Respect (in Thai)
@ right? You were really balanced in your review… not that it wouldn’t be a bizarre response regardless of the rating but it is especially baffling for 3 stars 😂
This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith. It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons. I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family. Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it. Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture. This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved. I was not nor will I ever be. I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life. I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing. It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence. ~ Wine Lo ~ Yin Dii~ With Great Respect (in Thai)
@ it seems like something that would never be in a library or on the shelves of a bookstore bc from your description it sounds like weird techno torture porn. Maybe that’s a good thing
I've been following Kat for over 2 years now, and she doesn't make videos for 'attention'. Wine's identity shouldn't be the forefront of this discussion. This is regarding a piece of work created by an author and the discussion surrounding that. I think the points which were brought up are quite fair.
Yikes this is a mess. I get nervous posting book reviews online when it is less than a 4 star. Your video makes me want to hide in a corner and not post my reviews anymore because I would be that person to have a nervous breakdown after getting this type of email.
9:15 That's really dumb funeral pyres are insanely common throughout history all over the world, especially in Europe. But tbh i find it also very odd on your part to put it as a potential "trigger"
Why? I know two people who are utterly petrified by fire. They don't even like candles. A pyre would make at least one of them exceedingly uncomfortable. People can have triggers that don't make sense to you. Kat was being sensitive to other people. It's not weird to want to protect people.
I agree with everything you said except the "antisemitic" part. Either you don't elaborate on details, or you use the same poor tactics as the people threatening you, calling "antisemitic" everything that goes against you, as they call "transphobic" everything that goes against trans author. I don't like that move at all.
@Antosza Feel free to educate yourself on this matter and learn the details about their antisemitic comments and actions on Moore's blog, as she is the Jewish author who was harassed. Link is in vid description.
Woof, okay. Here's the thing - you (editorial you, in this case) don't get to tell someone that their ethnicity is "self-described". You don't know them, you don't know their ancestry, if you don't know them personally and sometimes not even then. If someone says they're Jewish, you don't get to say "no you're not, you're self-proclaimed Jewish" the same way you can't tell someone that they're not mixed or a certain race due to whatever their skin color might be visually. That's racist as hell, and in this case it's antisemitic as hell. Not only that, but they attacked her for writing about near-future Irish coal miners on Mars, all of which is untrue. They clearly looked at the name of the character on the back and decided he was Irish as in from Ireland when the novels are inspired by Irish names and Celtic history and mythology. It is a fantasy land. Ireland does not exist there. And further more, someone stated very openly that a Jewish person (self proclaimed of course) was writing about ethnicities not her own and because she is Jewish, it's not as kosher as she thought to be about writing Irish folks. Now even if you took away the actual, legitimate definition of kosher (as in, cooking food in such a way that follows Jewish law), kosher means genuine and legitimate. How exactly is a Jewish woman writing about people with Irish names not "kosher"? AND if this person knew how to even do a tiny bit of research, they'd know there's no conflict with Jewish people with Ireland, in fact Ireland has a stories history of actually being antisemitic as hell! Look up the Limerick Pogrom if you don't believe me, and if that's not enough, how about during the Holocaust when Ireland was hesitant to take in Jewish refugees? But oh wait there's more! How about how in the 1930s the Archbishop of Ireland went on an antisemitic tirade on Passion Sunday? I could keep going but this is long enough. The point is, you don't get to tell someone what their race, ethnicity or any other part of them is. That's racist as hell. Don't be like them. Be better.
So when I clicked on this I do like I usually do with book review videos and look up the book itself if I’m unfamiliar before I watch the video. When I looked up the book the first review shown to me was this person’s and wow do I think she’s just incredibly dense reading her review. From scrolling through comments here as well as looking at the review page it seems that people’s main problem with the original review wasn’t the review itself but specific words used to describe certain things. ie. people complained about ‘funeral pyre’ being listed as a trigger warning, as it seemed culturally insensitive given that it’s a common cultural/religious practice in much of the world. She explained that she listed that not for the relations to funerals or the practice itself, but that the triggers were fire and the burning people/bodies because she knows people personally that would be triggered by that, so she won’t be changing her warnings. I don’t understand how someone that has a RUclips channel dedicated to talking about books apparently can’t understand that listing ‘funeral pyre’ as a warning implies that the practice itself is the trigger rather than components of the practice. And that the perceived problem could be fixed by changing the warning to something like ‘burning of people/corpses (as part of a customary funeral pyre)’. I don’t understand how someone can apparently read books and love them enough to create a channel but not have learnt the importance of the specific words they use and the implications/connotations of them. When the author’s website describes them as a transwoman and former sex worker, describing them as a Thai ladyboy is just disrespectful.
I already covered the funeral pyre trigger warning in this video, so I'll respond to the only new concern. My review says the author is a "self-said Thai ladyboy who identifies as a girl (she/her)." I always put how the author prefers to be called (she/her) in my reviews and the "Thai ladyboy" part is a direct quote from how the author identifies on her website. Self-said means the author said it herself. So how is it disrespectful? 🤨
![THEY THREATENED TO DOXX US OVER BOOK REVIEWS [A LITERAL CRIME]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HGBz2824pEY/mqdefault.jpg)
![THEY THREATENED TO DOXX US OVER BOOK REVIEWS [A LITERAL CRIME]](/img/tr.png)
It is CRYSTAL CLEAR what's happening here. Really unhinged behaviour on this author's part. Good for you for standing your ground and sending such a structured email 😄
Thanks for your kind words. Love a good structured email 🥰
Careful Wine might send you abuse in a comment too! Lol
It’s hilarious to see an author who says in one breath, I have no social media, yet is commenting on social media.
Okay, the pyre thing annoyed me. Like, I have a lot of religious trauma. Does that mean I should MOVE to Asia to avoid all the Christian nations? Does that mean I disrespect religion because I need to engage with it carefully. I have a trigger to Keurig coffee makers! People don't get to chose what their triggers are, and to pretend someone's trigger makes them an immoral person is, frankly, disgusting and SO damaging.
The fact that both your review and H.L. Moore's review were mostly positive (a 3/5 is a solid score, especially for a debut novel!) makes the whole thing even weirder. If this is how Borgia and her fans react to reviews that are only slightly critical of her work, I'd hate to see how'd they react to actual negative reviews.
@Medidon94 Oh yeah, it didn't go well. At that time, I do believe another reviewer gave it a 1 or 2 star (can't remember), and they also jumped on them. I didn't include every review because of video length. But yeah, it seemed only a 5-star would do 🙄
@@HLMOOREWRITES Leave Wine and her book alone you loser.
Getr a life.
It's all you posted about for a week and she has responded and you erase her response.
Total, complete POS.
Hi wine!!!!
@JaneDanvers77 if you watched the video, you would see that:
-she provides photo proof of her own allegations of harassment
-she never accused you of being a white supremacist
-she never said that funeral pyres aren't natural or a part of your culture
-trigger warnings are not implying something is evil, it's just that someone has trauma around that & may need to prepare themselves or avoid it
also, speaking as a trans person: disliking something made by a trans person does not make that person transphobic unless they dislike it *because* the creator is trans, which is not the case here. people don't need to force themselves to enjoy your stuff just because you're marginalized. that's not a hate crime. so many people understand this concept, including myself. I know my writing is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. this is normal. you can't please everyone &, in fact, shouldn't try. I write for myself & if other people happen to like it, that's great. negative criticisms make me sad, yeah, & it may feel like an attack sometimes, but it really isn't, & no amount of arguing & defensiveness is going to make it a five star review. it's not a matter of fact but of opinion. my opinion is I (the target audience) like my books. that's all that matters.
you really aren't doing yourself any favours here. I mean it genuinely & in good faith when I say please stop looking at reviews. stop responding. delete your sockpuppet accounts. stop making new ones. get off the internet entirely if you have to. it's not healthy for both your mental health & career to focus this much on it. if you're reading this comment in a condescending, mean-spirited tone, reread it in a more neutral one because that is where I'm coming from. you're allowed to be irritated by things, just don't make a mountain out of a molehill. at least, not where everyone you're complaining about can hear you.
Lilith isn't mentioned in the Bible. She is a later Jewish myth who appears in mediaeval Jewish lore.
Speaking as a writer, REVIEWS ARE NOT FOR US. We write, we get the book into the best shape we possibly can, we label it appropriately. We cannot bully people into receiving the book well, and we are not entitled to 5-star reviews. Unless we're looking to read something new ourselves, we do not belong in the review space. Thank you!
W H A T 👁️👄👁️
I nearly choked on my coffee when I read the email from the "lawyer" - that is not written by a lawyer.
Elon Musk fanfic 🤮
When some people read the Cait Corrin story and find it inspirational
You know and using the fact they’re a brown woman to very, very racist. It’s the same shit different day
Thank you for posting this. I don't think I've ever seen an author with a thinner skin! I'm a writer myself. If you can't handlr criticism you have NO BUSINESS being a writer! Stand firm, Kat, don't let them intimidate you!
Thanks! I won't! Filming part 2 tomorrow because they did escalate 🙃
The worst part is I would have picked up the book based on your 3 star review (except the Elon Musk thing that kind of grosses me out). And now I won’t be.
The lack of professionalism in those emails is extremely alarming
god it's January and we already have some unhinged authors...Kudos to you for sticking up for yourself and staying calm! Hope this story gets popular so people know to not read anything by this author!
Thank you for speaking out about this, H.L Moore and i are friends and she has been sharing updates since this whole thing started.
The specific choice of using Lilith as the name for the main character whilst being antisemitic to a jewish author is not lost on me. It is also surprisingly not shocking either. It has been well documented by jewish feminists that jews are often left out of feminism by non jewish feminists. And there are also many instances of feminists using lilith, who originated from jewish texts. to exclude jewish women from feminist movements and spaces. Then there is the whole thing if lilith not being a feminist icon in jewish text but a demon who does objectively messed up things, but that is a tangent for another day.
Yeah, that aspect is especially heinous. No one said anything about the author (being a transwoman/a person of color/from Thailand), and yet, Moore being Jewish was an element of their comments. It was so uncalled for 👎
I admit, if I had a published work, I might take a peak at the rating people are giving it to see if people liked my work, but I wouldn't actually read the reviews themselves because I don't really want to know what people are saying about it. If it's an average or below score, I could just ask people send me feedback directly so I know what to work on rather than target reviews meant for other readers, because reviews aren't feedback.
No way in hell they used Luke Korns name and picture to write a fake review, he could sue them for impersonation. This is wild.
I don't know who that is (sorry real Luke Korns!) so I didn't catch that. But it tracks. Because part 2 (coming soon) includes the impersonation of a Tor publishing house VP in a potential email phishing scheme. Wild is correct. 🎣
@@biblioobscura Luke is a youtuber! He has 2.4 million suscribers which why I found using his name an picture absolutely wild, they could've gone for anyone but they chose a person with that much exposure... This story is absolutely wild and I'm so sorry you have been getting harrassed for expressing an opinion.
@@eladcgThanks! 😅
Didn't the "lawyer" said Wine had social anxiety and thus no social media, including GR?
I'm a reviewer with anxiety and an author bullied me into a panic attack over a 3 star review I gave their book. She even admitted to knowing she wasnt supposed to privately contact reviewers. I still review, but I'm scared to give even 3 stars (which, to me, 3 stars means the book was ok, good, not great, not bad). I'm working to overcome this review anxiety, and already doing better than when this all occured +/-6mos ago.
@HLMOOREWRITES thank you, truly. 🤗 I'll be the first to admit that I'm sensitive to that sort of stuff. But it actually helps ease my mind to hear you say all of that, especially that it was unethical of the author.
And it gives me the courage to get back to reviewing. After all, reviews are for readers, like you said.
Wow, that's ridiculous. No one should feel bullied into a specific star rating or a particular review. Just a thought, isn't it possible to leave a review without giving a star rating? Did you change the stars? I could go on the book and give the star rating. 😁
@BookZealots it is generally, but I was reviewing through a book PR company and they require star ratings. I wanted SO badly to drop a star, but since it was through a PR company, decided I shouldn't. To me, 3 stars isn't even a "bad" rating, just mediocre (which tbh was generous for this book 😂). An author who's 40+ telling me I'm too old to enjoy new adult (I'm 41) - I definitely won't read anything by this author again.
@@vanillasnowflake Oh yes, I understand your situation and not wanting to drop the star. Three stars in my rating is good. Two is okay. Those are the goodreads ratings. One is I didn't like it. Most of my ratings are three. Good books transcend age groupings. It sounds like whomever wrote it is too sensitive to be an author.
If an author is not going to be able to handle the fact that not everyone will love their book, they should find another line of work. Also it is repugnant when people act like any and all criticism of any kind directed at someone of marginalized identity constitutes bigotry. It is definitely true that a lot of POC authors, trans authors, etc, will get BS and hate reviews simply because the person is prejudiced, but that does not mean every single critical or negative review is based purely in prejudice. Being trans isn't some get out of a-hole jail free card which gives the person full license to behave as abominably as they wish. Ugh. (Edit to add that a review of a book is obviously not criticism of the author, but some authors sure seem to take them that way!)
You're not being sued, you're being harrassed and I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
AND, not like they have a leg to stand on anyway, they're claiming the WRONG offense.
"Slander" is spoken defamation. "Libel" is written defamation. You have done neither, but since this was a written review, Libel would be the correct thing they want to be laughed out of a courtroom for.
Just started watching this vid, at 12:57, and bro its so clear these are all the same person using alts or at least multiple people using alts, either way this is crazy.
Not saying that's the case, but... 🧐
Exactly.
I'm getting flashbacks to the time when a once-respected historian, Orlando Figes, disgraced himself by using sockpuppet accounts to puff his own books on Amazon...
The way you handled that email with such grace and sprinkled a bit of legal pettiness. You are delightful
@@polyphoniceverything I try 😎
This is absolutely UNHINGED The fact that they would threaten to dox you and HL Moore (especially as a transwoman but let's not get into that) is absolutely disproportionate retaliatory behaviour. I am so sorry for the stress this whole ordeal must be causing you.
I reported the author for harassment on Goodreads and linked both this video and HL Moore's blog post as evidence, and I hope they take disciplinary action soon. We CANNOT let this kind of behaviour fly as a community
I've never seen a lawyer talk like that. I don't think that was a lawyer.
I would say Moore and I are online friends, so I'm here from her updated blog post and I want to thank you for speaking about this and bringing it to wider attention. There's absolutely no excuse for people to be harassed in this way (or at all, for that matter). All of this over book reviews that weren't even negative! If this is what people think supporting authors looks like, I'm in despair and, I'll be honest, it's put me off even considering reading anything by this author in the future. I hope you and Moore can put all of this behind you soon.
@@mariereadsbooks Thanks for your kind words. I would say I hope so, too, but I'm currently writing the script for part 2 as some truly CRAZY stuff has gone down after I posted this video. 😬
@@biblioobscuralmao just as you've concluded this one by "we'll meet in a less drama filled video" - you must've jinxed it 😂
@@sava-smth I truly must've 💀
How about Kat and HL Moore attacking the author, a trans woman of color, in response? You're cool with that?
@@JosephKelly-uj1zo please, joseph, tell me: how did they attacked the author? What was there to warrant a lawsuit? Genuinely, like, seriously genuinely, was there something important omitted in obscura's video? Or was everything in the video all there was to it?
....MY JAW IS ON THE FLOOR. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of this???? Bloody damn, what an unhinged nightmare. 😳 I too love a good list...and very much admire the one you made in the response. ~
Thanks for your list solidarity! And wait till you watch Part 2 😬😬😬
this is a far wider issue involving amazon reviews, social media accounts, apartment reviews, pretty much everywhere commerce happens. i am frequently contacted about the average/poor reviews i leave.
imagine how they react to getting dumped
This is absolute insanity. Thank you for sharing. This isn't a book I'd be interested in reading, but I went to goodreads and gave you and another reviewer a thumbs up.
I appreciate trigger warnings. There are certain things in books I have zero interest in reading. And it sounds like, either the author or her cohorts got triggered by the trigger warnings. People that sensitive shouldn't read reviews of their books.
Thank you for sharing and I hope Ms. Moore keeps her author account.
This is so ridiculous, upsetting and frustrating - reviews are for readers and if authors don't like what readers/reviewers are saying, there's always the option to not read the reviews. 😬
@CuriousReader Totally agree! But definitely read them before threatening to sue for slander! Like bare minimum 😮💨
The writer should’ve just let it be, and not even pay that close attention to reviews. A person making a review is still word of mouth of your book, positive or negative. This just makes him… look horrible.
Re: Funeral pyre TW
I don't have a trigger for fire either but I just read a book that included witch burnings & I'd really appreciate a heads up instead of stumbling into it blind. Including details like this in your reviews is a godsend!!
I always appreciate people like you who include TWs because, while I don’t have a trigger for burning bodies, I DO have others including a trigger for water and/or drowning. But I guess that makes me oceanphobic 😢
I appreciate them, too. I don't have many triggers, but those I do I really don't want to read about.
The story doesn't sound good to me, but you liked it and took the time to read it. And you have every right to write a review that is not 5 stars.
Authors know that there's this thing called fair use right? And that for a public figure like someone whose name is on a book it's much harder to prove defamation because you actually have to prove actual malice. All they did was waste money having a lawyer write a letter.
Thank you so much for your video. This was freaky. It seems like this writer, Wine lo Borgias, needs specialized help. These are signs of a true psychopath or narcissist. How is it that book reviews have not taken action against this person?
I'm loving your sunglass trick. 😆
Thanks!! 😎
Authors are wilding out lately. For a while, actually, and something needs to be done about it either legally or among publishers. I'm not sure what, but this behavior can't continue. Enough is enough. Authors need to stop being allowed to run amok and terrorize readers for not giving 5 star reviews.
@pinkrubix You haven't seen Part 2 yet have you 😬
So odd to do this over a 3 stars review. I honestly look at 3 star reviews before picking a book because a lot of the times they are “this just wasn’t for me because xyz” and they usually have a quick summary of any style/content issues. If I had just read your review before all the comments from new private accounts, I probably would have been intrigued enough to pick it up.
The newly created sock puppet accounts following you all the way to your RUclips comments (!!!) is insane lmao. Thank you for this video. I’m sorry you have to deal with all this but you’re handling it majestically. I’ll definitely be checking out that other author who’s getting harassed by totally not Wine.
The typos are WILD work, just, how does someone get to this point and still suck at basic grammar rules and spelling so badly?
I know, right?
lots of people neglect that part of the craft because "thats what editors are for" and while they're helpful and all that, it's a pretty poor excuse for people who claim to love writing to refuse polishing it
This is actually insane.
Some people look for reasons to be offended.
I'm a writer who is finally getting brave enough to write with the intention of publishing. I can't imagine being in reviewer spaces attacking reviewers in ANY capacity, let alone threatening to sue over OPINION. Holy hell. If you can't handle criticism (which this review didn't even really HAVE...it was mostly just facts about the book's contents) you don't need to be a writer. If a 3 star review sends you spiraling into a defensive attack where you feel the need to either gather an army to fight for you or to create a bunch of alts, you've lost the damned plot. What tf would she do with a 1 star review (which judging from the sorry state of the "writing" of her/her team's comments and emails is probably more appropriate)? Stay out of reviewer spaces if you can't stand the heat. For someone so defensive about funeral pyres, she really is triggered by a light roasting of her book.
An author should value all reviews, especially ones that go into such depth and took so much time to write as the ones mentioned here. The criticisms are absolutely gold for an author, even more value than a glowing review. They tell you where you might want to tighten up your writing, where you made a mistake, and where you still have work to do. I've been writing for 38 years and a scathing comment about everything I did wrong is what's going to not only tell me that someone actually READ what I wrote, but also where I need to put more work in. I would feel HONORED to have someone take this much time to write a review because they CARED enough (one way or another) about my work to put in that time and effort to tell others about it. To then BULLY and THREATEN them? Omg. That infuriates me because authors that would LOVE those reviews might not ever have the chance to get them if these people succeed in chasing away reviewers with their unhinged responses. Show a little bit of respect and appreciation for reviewers who READ YOUR WORK and felt strongly enough to write more than one line that said, "I liked it/didn't like it." Holy hell.
I'm going to be ranting all day about this (maybe longer). Say a little prayer for EVERYONE I know because I'm just not going to be able to shut up about it. Sorry this is so long. And I'm doubly sorry there's so many authors out there acting like fools. Reviewers don't deserve that at ALL. I hope one day I have the honor of having MY book reviewed by ANYONE. I already have plans to print out and frame every single one I get and put them on my office wall :D
@ stay strong out there!
Went over to the clock app to see if booktok got a hold of this already and… crickets? The search is clear of anything - even positive reviews. The author’s account is also privated. For a debut author? That’s super super odd. 🤔
@belle132 I only post on Goodreads and RUclips, so I haven't posted this video on Booktok at all (I don't have Tiktok). Feel free to do so if you want 🙏 🙏 🙏
Wow, this is crazy! Your response was amazing, btw. New sub!
Thank you for talking about this. This whole drama is exhausting even though they stopped targeting me. I guess with only a handful of people in on this, they only had time to be racist liars.🙄✊
This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith.
It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons.
I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family.
Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it.
Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture.
This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved.
I was not nor will I ever be.
I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life.
I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing.
It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence.
~ Wine Lo
~ Yin Dii~
With Great Respect (in Thai)
Attacking someone you never met, have no business with, and who never contacted you is exhausting?
Seems to be Kat's reason to get out of bed in the morning.
Tran bully POS.
Post this by the way.
Coward.
No but why would you ever argue (or sue for defamation ...) with a rewiev, when there's an implicit assumption that this is an _opinion_ 😭 like what
Edit: gwah ... is it an author being chronically online and creating a bunch of fake goodreads accounts AGAIN?.. (IN MY OPINION, for any trigger happy lilith superfans)
Unfortunately, maybe yes, but even worse. Her husband said he's going to doxx us, which is a criminal offense where we live. The tea is coming soon and it is scalding.
@@biblioobscura 💀💀💀 that's the way to deal with criticism. Ig she's not chronically online enough, if sssniperwolf's story taught her nothing about doxxing
I love that TikToker that reads the court transcripts lol
the reaction is so weird. Your review was so milk toast? Not in the disrespectful way I just mean it feels like such a common type of review? I literally see nothing disrespectful in it at all. Not to mention the funeral pyre thing people give trigger warnings for American type of funerals as well. If a book details embalming that would be quite triggering to some people. How odd
@soda_fairy Right??? I usually never even mention the author in my reviews (other than what they prefer to go by "he/she/they" and where they're from). So I was taken aback by my "attack." I was like, where??? 🤔
And yeah, the funeral pyre thing made it very clear they didn't understand what trigger warnings in book reviews were for 🙃
@@biblioobscura im sorry you had to go through that but thank you for sharing im taking that book off my TBR now.
@@biblioobscura This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith.
It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons.
I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family.
Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it.
Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture.
This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved.
I was not nor will I ever be.
I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life.
I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing.
It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence.
~ Wine Lo
~ Yin Dii~
With Great Respect (in Thai)
Moore is a good digital friend of mine, and she sent me this link and her blog post. It sucks that the two of you are being so targeted, but I’m glad you’re both clearly confident and powerful enough to parse the situation critically and publicly articulate your defense with a bit of humor and disbelief at the ridiculousness of it all. I can only imagine the sort of damage this behavior could do to the psyche of someone less secure in their presence in the world.
Have a comment and a like to feed the algorithm, and I’ll be sure to donate if it turns out you actually need a legal defense fund! (I managed to type that with a straight face. Barely.)
@FantismalSpider Thanks for your kind words. It totally sucks, but I feel way worse for Moore, who is having her professional Goodreads and Amazon store front attacked. So unprofessional.
@ Absolutely. I’m glad she’s genuinely seeming to find the amusement in the drama. Laughter is about all you CAN do in a situation like this
@JaneDanvers77 Wait, what? The author never contacted either Kat or Moore, but also Kat has had a statement from the author 'for 3 days'? How does that make sense?
Also how do you know all this? Where are you getting your info?
@JaneDanvers77 Sweetie, learn how to comprehend words and take time to understand what these two incredible women are saying before you react. BOTH of them are giving Wine so much grace, encouragement, and benefit of the doubt. It's Wine's supporters (like you, since you are absolutely definitely not Wine herself), who they are disappointed with. People like you are ruining Wine's book for them and for future readers. You are actively hurting that which you purport to love.
The best thing you can do to support Wine and her book is to take a deep breath and close all tabs talking about her book and never go back to them. Pick up her book instead and reread it to remind yourself of the awesome story you enjoyed, and eagerly await the next installment for your own enjoyment.
And now, with that being said, I trust you'll be mature enough to take my advice and not respond to me because you've closed this tab. Regardless, I'm going to take my own advice and ignore anything else you have to say to me, because I refuse to engage any longer in a conversation that could further damage the reputation of a debut author.
@@FantismalSpider Well said 👏👏👏
I was not expecting this level of wild 😮
If you think this is wild, then part 2 is an absolute zoo. Includes stuff like threatening to doxx us, which is a crime where we live. 🙃
I'm sorry. That's just awful. I think we're in a society now where this kind of behavior is becoming more and more accepted and it's not right. I guess it makes me want to stay away from those types of books because I now expect their authors to be unhinged.
Love pretend internet lawyers that can't spell. XD
So I guess you haven't been sued yet? hahahaha.
Those accounts are all from the author lol
It seems the author has a lot of accounts. And I would suggest he give up plans on being a professional author. Being an author is always putting yourself up for critical review, that goes with the territory. It isn't for the too fragile. It's a way to grow and learn as an author. He will never be better than this less than satisfactory work.
i dont think the pronouns for a trans woman are 'he'...
Welcome to the world when everyone claims racism and transphobia when you simply don’t like or love their work or are critical of it
That's simply not true. I don't like your victim blaming sentiment.
Racism and transphobia are real issues and are affecting people and their work in real life. There aren't many people who would claim offence over something that didn't happen.
Fun fact, if you've watched the continuation to this video - this person is most likely a white man from new york. So when minorities bring to your attention the bigotry they face, believe them.
I'm not going to lie. The picture in the Amazon author profile and the fact that Lilith is their only book makes me feel like this is actually another author with a pseudonym and maybe not even a trans lady author at all. 🤔
Im sorry, but I feel any judge would laugh if anything like this actually came into their courtroom and probably also face-palm, like wtf is going on. xD Also whats up with people making up fake legal emails that seem like a child wrote them?
Wow...Just wow. Stellar job on your lists btw :)
Thanks! Love a good list 😁
I was gonna read this after Grave Empire. So damn that sucks
@@BooksRebound Unfortunate! Luckily, there are so many other wonderful books out there. 📚
@JaneDanvers77 has she publicly disavowed these fans? Where, how when? I don't see any acknowledgement from the author anywhere.
@@rb2042 This was erased last night because Kat doesn't want you to see the truth.
She is a loser who has been harassing Wine for over a week.
Wine's husband is getting involved and will respond shortly by posting their real names.
This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith.
It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons.
I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family.
Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it.
Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture.
This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved.
I was not nor will I ever be.
I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life.
I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing.
It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence.
~ Wine Lo
~ Yin Dii~
With Great Respect (in Thai)
And you know this because YOU ARE wine
Praying for you 🥰
This is INSANE.
Omg this is so wild!
@@shibasandshelves I was like over a ⭐️⭐️⭐️ review???
@ right? You were really balanced in your review… not that it wouldn’t be a bizarre response regardless of the rating but it is especially baffling for 3 stars 😂
This is wild!!
Totally bizarre 🫠
This is Wine Lo Borgias, Thai trans-woman, former sex worker, and author of a debut sci-fi erotica novel: Lilith.
It’s a retelling of the Biblical myth of Adam’s first wife Lilith who disobeyed him, escaped from the Garden of Eden into the wilderness to live her own life, and was slandered as the mother of all demons.
I have been told that there has been conflict over reviews of my novel with several reviewers triggered by a description of a deceased character receiving a funeral pyre from her friends, lover, and de facto family.
Two young Indian women and one young (20 years old) pointed out that funeral pyres are part of the culture for billions of Hindus and Buddhists and is viewed as an act of great respect and also acceptance of our own mortality by not trying to hide it.
Fact is, many people in India, Nepal, and Thailand cannot afford to pay for a casket, funeral, and grave even if it were part of the culture.
This conflict turned into name-calling, claims that my representative was threatening reviewers, a spate of one star reviews and/or one star ratings without reviews, and claims I was involved.
I was not nor will I ever be.
I have no social media whatsoever due to my social anxiety, having been stalked in the past by former clients, and the desire to live a simple life.
I have no “representatives” beyond my wonder published Talk & Tell who are not wasting their time arguing with people online, and welcome critical reviews as they often force me to confront the weaknesses in my writing.
It’s crazy to attack each other in real life over a fictional book, I support freedom of speech, but ask that people I have no contact or business with also respect my privacy as I have had online stalkers before and have been threatened with physical and sexual violence.
~ Wine Lo
~ Yin Dii~
With Great Respect (in Thai)
How did you come across this book? I want to read it myself to better understand all of the drama but I don’t want to directly support the author
I had an advanced reader copy (ARC) from NetGalley before publication. It is no longer available there, tho.
@ it seems like something that would never be in a library or on the shelves of a bookstore bc from your description it sounds like weird techno torture porn. Maybe that’s a good thing
So, by that logic, we are not economists so we don’t have to buy this book
Aaaand this is how you torpedo your career as an author before it's even begun. LOL.
Ooo tea
@@soda_fairy 🫖
Are you in a state where SLAAP laws exist?
You handled this perfectly, by the way.
Thanks for saying so. I really hope they leave other reviewers alone now 🤞
I've been following Kat for over 2 years now, and she doesn't make videos for 'attention'. Wine's identity shouldn't be the forefront of this discussion. This is regarding a piece of work created by an author and the discussion surrounding that. I think the points which were brought up are quite fair.
Yikes this is a mess. I get nervous posting book reviews online when it is less than a 4 star. Your video makes me want to hide in a corner and not post my reviews anymore because I would be that person to have a nervous breakdown after getting this type of email.
@Gigi44_Bookworm Nah, don't worry. This is super abnormal. Your voice is worth being heard, as every good-faith reviewer's is. 🥰🥰🥰
What the heck
Absolute scenes
@JaneDanvers77 is there a link to the author's statement? I'd love to read it.
Oh but also Kat has screenshots in the video, that's pretty convincing.
Hi wine!!!
Insta love is a trigger warning…?
More like a general content warning, whatever, it's a goodreads rewiev
@ don't get me wrong I love to be told that it's insta love because I don't like it. But calling it a trigger warning is a choice
@@Air_Serpent yeah i mean, yeah. Welp pobody's nerfect 💁
9:15 That's really dumb funeral pyres are insanely common throughout history all over the world, especially in Europe. But tbh i find it also very odd on your part to put it as a potential "trigger"
Why? I know two people who are utterly petrified by fire. They don't even like candles. A pyre would make at least one of them exceedingly uncomfortable. People can have triggers that don't make sense to you. Kat was being sensitive to other people. It's not weird to want to protect people.
I agree with everything you said except the "antisemitic" part. Either you don't elaborate on details, or you use the same poor tactics as the people threatening you, calling "antisemitic" everything that goes against you, as they call "transphobic" everything that goes against trans author. I don't like that move at all.
@Antosza Feel free to educate yourself on this matter and learn the details about their antisemitic comments and actions on Moore's blog, as she is the Jewish author who was harassed. Link is in vid description.
Woof, okay. Here's the thing - you (editorial you, in this case) don't get to tell someone that their ethnicity is "self-described". You don't know them, you don't know their ancestry, if you don't know them personally and sometimes not even then. If someone says they're Jewish, you don't get to say "no you're not, you're self-proclaimed Jewish" the same way you can't tell someone that they're not mixed or a certain race due to whatever their skin color might be visually. That's racist as hell, and in this case it's antisemitic as hell.
Not only that, but they attacked her for writing about near-future Irish coal miners on Mars, all of which is untrue. They clearly looked at the name of the character on the back and decided he was Irish as in from Ireland when the novels are inspired by Irish names and Celtic history and mythology. It is a fantasy land. Ireland does not exist there. And further more, someone stated very openly that a Jewish person (self proclaimed of course) was writing about ethnicities not her own and because she is Jewish, it's not as kosher as she thought to be about writing Irish folks. Now even if you took away the actual, legitimate definition of kosher (as in, cooking food in such a way that follows Jewish law), kosher means genuine and legitimate. How exactly is a Jewish woman writing about people with Irish names not "kosher"? AND if this person knew how to even do a tiny bit of research, they'd know there's no conflict with Jewish people with Ireland, in fact Ireland has a stories history of actually being antisemitic as hell! Look up the Limerick Pogrom if you don't believe me, and if that's not enough, how about during the Holocaust when Ireland was hesitant to take in Jewish refugees? But oh wait there's more! How about how in the 1930s the Archbishop of Ireland went on an antisemitic tirade on Passion Sunday? I could keep going but this is long enough.
The point is, you don't get to tell someone what their race, ethnicity or any other part of them is. That's racist as hell. Don't be like them. Be better.
Well, now I understand, what you meant. But you probably should include some proofs in the video for casual passerbyers like me.
@@Antosza there are links in the description sleuth all you want
So when I clicked on this I do like I usually do with book review videos and look up the book itself if I’m unfamiliar before I watch the video.
When I looked up the book the first review shown to me was this person’s and wow do I think she’s just incredibly dense reading her review.
From scrolling through comments here as well as looking at the review page it seems that people’s main problem with the original review wasn’t the review itself but specific words used to describe certain things.
ie. people complained about ‘funeral pyre’ being listed as a trigger warning, as it seemed culturally insensitive given that it’s a common cultural/religious practice in much of the world. She explained that she listed that not for the relations to funerals or the practice itself, but that the triggers were fire and the burning people/bodies because she knows people personally that would be triggered by that, so she won’t be changing her warnings.
I don’t understand how someone that has a RUclips channel dedicated to talking about books apparently can’t understand that listing ‘funeral pyre’ as a warning implies that the practice itself is the trigger rather than components of the practice. And that the perceived problem could be fixed by changing the warning to something like ‘burning of people/corpses (as part of a customary funeral pyre)’.
I don’t understand how someone can apparently read books and love them enough to create a channel but not have learnt the importance of the specific words they use and the implications/connotations of them.
When the author’s website describes them as a transwoman and former sex worker, describing them as a Thai ladyboy is just disrespectful.
I already covered the funeral pyre trigger warning in this video, so I'll respond to the only new concern.
My review says the author is a "self-said Thai ladyboy who identifies as a girl (she/her)." I always put how the author prefers to be called (she/her) in my reviews and the "Thai ladyboy" part is a direct quote from how the author identifies on her website. Self-said means the author said it herself. So how is it disrespectful? 🤨
Ah, you must be one of the Goodreads trolls. Cross platform harassment is not a cute look.
Subbing! Not just for the 🫖but because that kind of 3-star review is exactly the most helpful kind for deciding if I want to read a book or not.
Thanks! And, yeah, often 2-4 stars tell way more than 1 or 5 stars!!!