🤨 3 reasons WHY VALVES get tight or get loose on a 4 stroke motor, wear out
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Now that I know this a small part of my soul disappears on every cold start. 😢 Great video.
Excellent demonstration, and a cool jig to show the concept!
"That's dumb. Why don't they make it with no/less clearance?" Is the number one question I get from customers when I explain noises or issues like this. "#1 BECAUSE HEAT CAUSES METALS TO EXPAND! & #2 Because someone had to assemble it!" Are some of the replies I want to scream. But I have a filter. So what I say is "everything made of parts has to have some clearance. Machines and their parts work under extreme conditions so clearance has to be engineered in. Different materials expand and contract differently. That has to be considered. Valves and pistons are examples of parts that have to have an airtight seal under a large range of pressures and at high temps. Imagine trying to create an airtight seal with no plastics or rubber, just metal to metal. Valves to valve seats, pistons to rings to cyl walls are all metal to metal clearances that must be airtight and move at extreme speeds at high temps under extreme loads. THAT'S why clearances are engineered into the design."
Great explanation! I like it when people know what they are talking about and take time to explain what’s going on. These younger guys I talk with have no idea. When I explained I lap in my new valves they were blown away.
TI SEGUO DALL'ITALIA CON LA TRADUZIONE AUTOMATICA, SEI MOLTO BRAVO!
the only thing I could find to learn about Loosen valves. thank you
The valve stems themselves will actually stretch out slightly, which is typically greater with exhaust valves. Higher revving engines like a Ninja 250 valves will beat into the valve seats which is typically worse with intake valves as the intake valves are a little heavier over the exhaust valves, also if one neglects to adjust valve clearances it will have an effect on the ability for the valves, especially exhaust, to reject heat into it’s seats which will cause the metal material of the seat & valve to soften leading excessive valve train wear & eventually burnt valves or even “dropped” or “sucked” valves, even neglecting to change an engines oil can cause excessive valve train wear & eventually failure.
Your comment is so helpful! Where in your clearance range would you prefer to be, regarding tolerance? It’s a big range. Mine is a mostly street, never pinned, never trail raced, medium rpm range KLR 650. OEM for intake is .10 to .20, exhaust is .15 to 25. I was shooting for .15 intake and .20 exhaust, but nobody talks about preference, longevity experience and why they chose that.
thank you , thank you , thank you so much for this video. really liked the demo. i was hoping valve clearance degradation was friction related. this really sucks because i put 5k miles on my bike every 3 months
Very comprehensive, thank you.
I love your simple model there ... explains things (perhaps better than any complicated CGI) and certainly took less time to make than a graphic
Top Points
Thank you for this excellent explanation. Now to actually check and adjust my valves 😄🤞🏾
Very good explanation, thanks!
Effort and explanation is splendid. Thank you
Your explainable was terrific. I would love to see the difference between hydrolically adjusted valves (like on the old Nighthawk) and why they all aren't made that way to avoid the work of constant adjustment.
The adjusting it's a pain, Thanks for watching
Late but you try to criticize the man yet you looked up the video…..
@@josebajonero4754 how is the OP comment reasonably interpreted as a 'criticism'? lol, it's a non-hostile expression of curiosity...numbnuts.
very nice i would say that over rev create valve float and it also creates problems in racing it’s common(giving a fistful of throttle to get the front end up mid air)keep it up man great content 😀
Awesome info!!! Thx for taking the time and effort to build the model for illustration. I never really understood exactly how it all works but i do now. Keep up the great work and vids coming. Merry Christmas
Thaks for watching.. And merry Christmas
Absolutely amazing explanation! This explained my question to your other video. Now I have other (newbie) questions, I hope you'll have time to answer. Does all this mean that to lengthen the needed intervals for valve clearance and replacement I can do this:
1) Clean my air filter more often.
2) Change the engine oil more often.
3) Avoid (as much as possible) starting the motorcycle in cold weather.
4) Placing the motorcycle in the sun (to keep it warm), instead of in the shadow.
5) Letting the engine run for some minutes before I give too much gas.
Am I correct or...? Thanks!
You are way above correct , do the first 2 and you will have the bike forever ...but what you didn't mention is check valve clearance , once they are out of spec they wear out faster ... That's what kills valves being used out of spec
@@vegasromaniac Thanks a lot! If the manual says change oil every 3,000 km will it then be a lot better to do it every 1,000 km or even every 500 km-or would that not help much?
Great explanation! This is dummy proof. Im gonna have to replace my. Right intake shim since it's got 0 clearance. Probably already sink into the seat crossing my fingers so it can last me some time after replacing the shim
Perfect.!!!! It's like i'm inside the mind of the engine. Thank you very much for taking the effort.
Glad you liked it
Excellent explanation. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Excellent explaitation!
Man! That’s an awesome video. Made it crystal clear and the best explanation I have seen of vlave clearances. Thank you!
Thanks for watching man
Great explanation! Your like the Bill Nye the Science Guy of motors.
Bill Nye is an engineer. Dolph Lundgren is more of a scientist than he is.
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 Actually Bill Nye is a moron. I was making a joke.
Good man thanks - now I have to tackle the shim under bucket adjustment on my CB1100. I'm actually looking forward to it.
not hard , once you figure out how to do it, just make sure you cover the holes with towels in case you drop something doesnt go the bottom of the motor
@@vegasromaniac Thanks again. That wooden model is extremely well done.
Okay, I’ll give you a thumbs up.
Your demonstration was excellent and very helpful, it actually makes me want to do more than just change my planned oil seals but my budjet wont allow. Maybe not the high tech explanation with all sorts of special effects but clearly I was able to follow along just fine and actually pictured it in my head as you were explaining it.
Glad it was helpful!
1 other problem sometimes is the vavle stems themselves can stretch, due to the vavle face slamming hard into the valve seat from being pulled closed so hard by the heavy vavle springs, especially if they have been replaced by heavier spec springs than factory.
Over time this can eventually have the effect of making the overall length of the valves longer, which of course can also interfere with the cold & hot clearances, etc..
I've never seen one stra stretched, only worn on the lip
Very good video and explanation.
For loose valves you can actually hear the clicking noise when the engine is cold before the clearance would hit the service limit.
Tip: if you are checking clearances and find a valve that is close to service limit, just do the adjustment otherwise you will have to disassemble it again in 2 months for adjustment. (True story.)
May I discuss with you on WhatsApp
I guess, but yes and no. I can report that with my Ducati Pantah type engine that things could stay a wee bit loose and not move ... I found that by making adjustments to keep the (quite narrow) tolerances that they'd loosen up, but if I left them on the slightly loose side it was fine. Now perhaps its an aspect of the desmo system (no valve springs) that things wore less ... dunno. But I always checked at intervals and listened every startup and at lights
Thanks so much for the good explanation but Please how can I solve this problem
Wow.... very well explained
well done .great model....
this happens ,when oil noels block or non spreading in cam head. otherwise when cold start give some rest run for engine nearly few mutinies ... tnx
Nice, functional and comprehendible.
Glad you liked it
Yep that's what happened to me I live in Alaska and where there is little to no snow, it's hard to resist riding a dirtbike in the cold
I liked the term , " ... a thousand of a hair..." Cool clip!
Haha yeah
the main reason why valve clearance change is because of a lack of oil lubrication. Valve assemblies for engines should never fail or lose clearance hardly at all over a very long period of time. However, if there is a oil problem...or lack of lubrication...even the best engineered valve assemblies will fail and lose clearance..and of course, if not solved quickly, can lead to catastrophic engine failure.
for instance..the reason why mower engine manufactures recommend that valve clearance is checked and regapped as necessary at the 300 hour mark is not really about material ablation of the valve assemblies, but rather that new engines will at around the 300 hour mark experience at least 5-10 oil changes. It is those oil changes (or lack thereof), that are usually going to produce some material loss (ablation). And at the same 300 hour schedule, manufacturers of these mower engines (air cooled 4 stroke), valves should be lapped. Again, not because of valve seat ablation, but due to heat related problems that happen over time: soot and unburned fuel/exhaust that cakes into the seat! So you are not really doing a metal lapping, but rather just removing soot ..carbon from the seat. (and I would recommend removing the carbon from the piston as well as from the valves and combustion chamber in the head cylinder...and inspecting the cylinder bore for any damage).
at 300 hours is where more heat related problems and soot related issues happen. This is why the manuals recommend doing that maintenance.
it has very little to do with loss of material in the valve assemblies. I mean it can happen, but material failure/ablation of this type would be related to a lack of proper heat management and lubrication from not changing your oil and filter per schedule...or running the engine really really really hard on very hot days...or worse...running a very hot engine in the middle of a cold rain shower...or even worse, "cleaning" an engine with cold water while the engine is very hot. These are things that can warp head cylinders, cause extreme changes to material expansion and contraction. And that can seriously alter how the valve assemblies absorb that kind of "shock".
All good info
Thank you. You are a good teacher !
Another superb explaination. The best I've ever seen. Thank you again sir. 😎👍
Happy to be of help
model is a beauty
Really good demonstration, thank you!
Excellent model made easy to understand
Great model and great teaching. Thank you
Great video
Thanks for the visit
Simply beautiful! Thank you
4th reason. Valves can tulip. Which makes them longer. Some people may call that stretching. So if someone say they stretched they might not be wrong.
This was such a clear video. Thank you!
You, sir, are very smart and very appreciated
Thanks
dear sir you have explained it very well thanks a lot
Most dirt bike motors (aluminum heads) actually have looser valves when they warm up, if you don't believe me check your valve clearance when cold and again when hot and you'll see.
That's true .. aluminum expands more when hot
Thanks
Very good explanation & visual demonstration. Big 👍 677
Stay well, Joe Z
Thanks for visiting
Perfect demonstation
I think you will find the whole valve action to the cam is a lot more controlled that what your explaining , as cams have flanks prior to the valve lift , also specific spring pressure to suit cam type , but seats do wear due to unleaded fuel , and lifters wear , no ZDDP , etc etc .
thank you very much you! great video again!
i got a 300$ xr200r that the last owner dident use a air filter, had a streched sock as one and the intake valve is very worn and piston rings are toast smokes up a storm, still starts first kick and has alot of compresion and runs good just very smoky lol, im going to rebuild it soon i ran it like this for 6 years just add oil every time i ride it.
i just got a 2006 yz 250f that runs great i had to adjust the carb thats it, they built the engine high compression CP piston, web cam, lex exaust, they made the carb way to rich they raised the slider needle and went up 3 jet sizes it wold stumble at low throttle once setting the needle to stock and turning the mixture screw to 1 turn out it runs like a champ, the dyno sheet that came with it reads 39hp at the wheel, i got the receipt they spent 2600$ building it and i baught it for 2300$
Well kind of. The number one cause of valve where is dirt through a improperly oiled air filter. So valve clearance is there so that once the motor warms up there is in the naborhood of one fourth to one half of the hot Clarence this leaves enough room for the valve to fully seat and dump heat into the head and leave enough Clarence for a very thin film of oil between the Sham or the bucket and the cam itself. A tight valve can starve the cam and bucket or shim for oil and burn the valve in a multi cylinder engine. In a single it just stops running. While a loose valve can hammer on the shim end of the valve causing where. That all sed some Factory titanium valves like in the older crfs were just plain soft and wore out quickly. The thing about a properly cleaned and oiled airfilter is that it will stop running before it passes a harmful amount of dirt. Air filter maintance is key.
Excellent explanations sir
That’s was sooooo satisfying thank you
Thanks for watching
Keep up the good work , very educational
Very happy to hear that...
Thanks, I didn't get why the valves where too tight on my car, now I understand.
Also, could carbon deposits on the valve seats cause loose valves ? Or maybe it's not even possible in the first place ?
Imagine this scenario : you adjust your valves clearances with a dirty engine (of course without knowing it), and after a while you do a cleanup with some fuel additives. Could it cause valves to be too tight afterwards, to the point of damaging the engine ?
Carbon can affect it nut not that muc, h not a big problem, reduces performance slightly at the top of you red line it, nobody does that so it's just a blah blah bu people wanna sell you better fuel
Can you please discuss with me on WhatsApp
There has to be a way to eliminate this problem and keep them in spec all the time no matter what.
Maintenance
Great explanations thank you
Best explanation 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you liked it
Do you know why my klr650 makes a valve ticking noise after the engine is warmed up?
previously the valve shims were out of spec (too tight) - now within spec still on the tighter side but making ticking noise when the engines hot
Love your videos! I have a question maybe you can settle? Everyone says not to lap titanium valves but two of my machines with titanium valves the manual clearly states lap with lapping compound.. Thoughts?
Great explanation thanks bro
This is very informative 💯💯
Glad to hear that
I just had a valve adjustment done by the dealer. The bike is louder and almost sounds like a small diesel. Is that normal...And were the valves opened to the max spec? Thx
Great thanks!
The bucket should never ride the cam while in the closed position. The valve closes on the valve face and seat.
Is the cam offset from the bucket? I know on some systems with followers the follower will cause the valve to rotate slightly. The valve face doesn't keep landing in the same place which prevents unusual or uneven wear. It's like tightening a lug nut with a wrench as opposed to an impact wrench.
Very good brother thanks from Dhule Maharashtra India, thanks
Awesome
I disassymble may head last time. May valve have a leak but i dont have a grinding compound and is may intake valve is sharp but may exshaust valve i still ok but it have a leak need to use a grinding compound and my bike have a hard start an the 1st start it have a lil knocking sound and it will die but when my motor is hot is easy start
Great video, thanks
Glad you liked it
Why u postin so damn early on Christmas Eve. Is RUclips year round for you, and if it is. . . goddamn. Merry Christmas.
Scheduled video... Was made a whike back
Good video and explanation. I have had a exhaust valve that could not get a 0.03 feeler gauge in. So i have adjusted it to intake 0.04. And exhaust at 0.05. As it was not working or starting i had it started and it just cut out and would not start 😮
You’re wrong, the spring keeps the bucket in contact with the cam over most of the cam revolution, it’s only around TDC that a valve gap appears due to the valve seating in the valve seat. What you are describing is effectively valve bounce where the valve spring can’t work fast enough to follow the cam profile. That only occurs a very high rpm.
Can valves out of spec cause rough idling? My rpm needle dances after the first morning start. Then the dancing lowers but it still dances all the time and the engine has a tendency to shut down on stop and go traffic or at traffic lights.
Awesome
can one tell if the VALVES are tight or get loose hearing the engine sound ???🙏
This is exactly what I needed to know about my bike. Quote of the day: Genius has it's limits, ignorance has no bounds. That's why I race at night.
So even with the most diligent maintenance your piston will get loose. How many hours do they last typically.
I don't know but planning to change mine about 2 hours beofore it blows
i was about to do oil pan heater for my ktm 690 but idk how to attach it under the engine :D
i got a question..great explanation...I am currently trying to troublehshoot an issue with my V TWIN 4 Stroke. Bike has no issues starting cold to warm. However, when up to optimal temperature, and i park up, the bike will make a noise (like piston hitting valve) and a puff of white smoke will come out on start. If i shut it off, then start it immediately after, all is well. I suspect i could have maybe a valve clearance issue but the bike works fine as well...... bike is doing 4800 miles atm.
Man that's a tough one, if the piston eve. Touched the valve, Than bye bye motor so its not that, it won't start if it would be that.... Maybe the timing chain it's slapping, the smoke part it's strange... I can't say where is that coming from, only oil and coolant make the bike smoke...
great
Awesome
Merry Christmas
whats the solution to this problem
Maintenance and replacing the valves when out of spec
Hi brother, are you aware of a case where valves getting tighter, and the motorcycle not starting when left in the sun.??
I have been noticing that my bike takes too many cranks to fire up, whenever i try to start after leaving it under hot sun. Haven't experienced this in other circumstances.
I was told by my service technician that it is due to valves getting tight. I am like clueless on the subject.
Do you think you can help me out??
Thanks in advance.
Never noticed that
Good demo... With respect, you don't 'turn on' an engine... You 'start' an engine... You turn on an electric motor... 🙏
I agree, English is my second language , sometime I directly translate from romanian and out dialect it's a lot more simple...
Hey man, I mixed up my valves but they seat fine on the exhaust side. I've read this won't be an issue but you think it's okay? I remember checking valve length once with a caliper and they seemed to be all the same size. thanks.
You will only know if it's ok will be fine or go bang
@@vegasromaniac lol what
If my valve 3 exhaust valves are tight will that stop my yfz450 from starting there way out of spec
Yes you can't create compression
So are you saying I shouldnt ride my ride my dirt bike in the winter? Or are you saying to make sure it is warmed up before I ride? You said both and i'm confused
Keep it in the garage, the warmer the better and don't start it unless you ride it..
@@vegasromaniac Thank you for responding! I Live in PA its in the 30's here. I just got a new 2018 CRF and plan on riding it but wanted to make sure what you thought. So as long as i ride it and not just start it and keep it at a idle i'll be safe? .......Merry Christmas!! Please keep your videos coming. I check everyday
How often do you replace the timing chain on your fx
Fuckin awesome explanation 👏 👌 😁😁
I need help. Even with the smallest shim on one of my intake valves, it still has 0 clearance... any idea
That valve it's so worn it's out of spec you need a new valve, sorry but that's a fact, and I know nobody wants to hear that
What's the chances of the valve and the valve seat in the head to been worn too?
@@Sonnymercer2112 seat it's usually stronger than the valve of its titanium valve, so the seat doesn't work that easy
@@vegasromaniac thank you brother... all the way from Cyprus 👍👌
change valve my friend
❤
🤙🏽
I'll just change my reeds every 5 years or so.
Valves dont get loose
Ah uh uuuhhh ah uh uh uh uuh uuh uh uh
First like