4 stroke to 2 stroke Lada engine conversion
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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This has been done on YT apparently, but none of those engines were for a car as far as we could tell.
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you are correct in your thinking, the problem is the crankcase. i am a 2-stroke motorcycle mechanic and i think the problem is that your engine doesn't have transfer ports to get the mixture from the crankcase to the cylinder. each con rod needs its own sealed chamber with transfer tunnels and ports. hope this gives you something to work with and look forward to seeing it run, keep up the great work and ideas.
That's not it, because crankcase pressure will never exceed cylinder pressure, wherefore piston rings will retain seal as long as they're in good working order.
However, to test this, it could be possible to utilize o-ring piston seals, as Garage54 has done in the past. The configuration will be short-lived, but good enough for demonstration.
The mixture goes straight into the cylinder. They welded the port to the cylinder it doesn't go threw the crankcase
@@fenrir4046 the problem with o-rings will be the port openings, it will most definitely sheer the rubber as the pistons move over them.
@@fenrir4046 wrong.
Not to mention they need 2 stroke type carbs.
Please do not give up on this. I really want to see you guys. Sorry I really wanna have you guys see this one through. I would love to watch it. Thank you.
I second that :D
I third that XD
I want to see an engine that has cylinders 1 and 3 petrol, and cylinders 2 and 4 diesel... make some strange hybrid engine thing
They already did it
@@ramirocuentas5999he meant an engine where in cylinders 1 & 3 runs on typical gasoline, while cylinders 4 & 2 runs on diesel
That's a sik idea
Yea i like the idea
You'd need different stroke and compression for the different fuels. Not worth the effort for what you'd get.
Is this the single most ambitious channel on RUclips? From creating straight 6s out of a 4cylinder, converting a gas to diesel, now a two stroke? This is insane.
In my opinion - shoulda attempted the Detroit Diesel 2-cycle approach. Keep the intake ports as is - but use the original exhaust valves rather than making ports. This way you don't need to keep the individual cylinders sealed off in the bottom end. However, this approach *does* require a supercharger/blower that can actively push fresh air into the cylinder(s). It'll also require long-skirted pistons that cover the intake ports when piston is @ TDC, else the blower will pressurize the crankcase. Detroits actually have piston rings at the bottom of the skirt, to prevent this. It's worth mentioning that cam speed will need to be 1:1 with crank speed.
Nice try, though.
They would need a supercharger Detroit diesels cannot run without them they are considered n/a because they need it to run
agree, much closer to the base design of 4 stroke.
Someone below correctly pointed out that cam would also need to be run 1:1 with crank speed. Even cooler if the cam lobes for the intake were re-done to be in phase with exhaust valves - so instead of half the valves being functional - they'd all be functioning as exhaust valves.
I was going to say the same and we have half decent electric blowers/turobs now but knowing Garage 54 they will already have it or just make it haha
@@joshmanis9860 True enough. EMD710 2-cycles actually have a centrifugal compressor geared to the crank - but arranged with an over-run clutch and a turbine. Thus the engine can be started using the compressor as a "blower" - but once exhaust energy is sufficient - it turns into a giant turbo. Probably the pinnacle of 2-cycle diesel design.
Mechanic here, with lots of experience with 2 strokes including diesel 2 strokes. You need to introduce forced induction to your engine somehow in order to get the gases moving and allow this to run, you've inspired me don't stop
What????? That's completely false. Carburated GAS 2t actually don't tend to run well with forced induction because of bad mixtures and 2ts actually push mixture out of the carb on the down stroke. Therefore the turbo can compromise this system. If the engine was EFI it would be different. However forced induction is NEVER the answer to a non running n/a engine. Forced induction is simply a power adder.
@@joerolfe7967 I appreciate what your saying and I can agree with you, but the idea for forced induction on this particular engines is for the the gases to charge the cylinder. This is why he is unable to start and run the engine. Think 2 strokes principle. Charge gases start off in the crankcase which created the low pressure "draw" then high pressure, think piston moving down pressurizing the air fuel mixture in the case, as the piston goes down power/exhaust stroke/ pressurized crank case air travels into the cylinder scavenging and charging. Ouff that's a lot to explain. Best to watch a video. Anyways in this case look up 2syroke diesel engine operation. Same principle for this application minus ignition type. In his build there is no charge principle built into his engine therefore no air movement, no air fuel mixture so no combustion nor exhaust, therefore cylinder scavenging effects thusly no fun sounds. He needs no other forced induction but a blower, or pro charger. A turbo will not work
@@kevinpiper3223 Their crackcase volume is too large to create a primary compression. Look at the volume in a 2-stroke, it is mostly filled up with the crankshaft and little air space.
@@broughxtremeI think the other guy is talking about forced scavenging with a supercharger. The intake charge did not travel through the crankcase. 2 stroke Detroit Diesel engines did it this way. Millions were made. EMD locomotive engines used the same method.
run it without coolant. use the water jacket as an air box. cut ports into the cylinder walls.
Been watching this channel almost since it started and I'm always amazed at the sheer hard work that's put in to every project, even when it was just Vlad in a tiny lock-up garage
You guys are straight up engineers, or mad scientists. I love it either way!!
Both...
Without crankcase pressure forcing fuel + air mix into the cyls, you'll need to add a super charger like they do on the old Detroit Diesels. Two strokes don't "suck" like 4 stroke on the intake stroke, they need a form of forced induction via crankcase pressure or an external blower. You'll get this to run!
There are different types of 2 cycles, and not all require a blower. Take, for example, a typical japanese dirt bike 2-stroke. They are crankcase-inducted, with reed valves, and require no blower. Piston goes up, drawing vacuum on the crankcase - air/fuel is drawn past the reeds and into crankcase. Spark event occurs near TDC, pushing piston down, generating power, and starts to squeeze the air/fuel in the crankcase. That air/fuel mixture passes through the "transfer port", and it begins entering the cylinder just as residual combustion pressure finishes pushing exhaust out the uncovered exhaust port. The fresh air/fuel finalizes the scavenging as the piston changes direction and begins moving upward again. Voila: suck squish bang blow, 2-cycle style without a blower.
@@GroovesAndLands that's what I said that you didn't read. The 4 -stroke crankcase isn't going to be conducive to crankcase induction.
@@anthonybielobockie4991 Thats why they tried to seal it with pieces of metal. I don't think they realised just how sealed it needs to be. Leaving open bearings was never going to do it.
My thoughts exactly. Get a blower.
They did connect the crankcase chambers into the intake ports of the corresponding cylinders. Seems like a lot of people missed that in the comments but if you watch carefully you can see how they did it. So no blower is needed in this case... Though the chambers weren't sealed good enough so maybe they could benefit by just using the turbo and ditching the crankcase pressure/vacuum setup
I love this project! Please keep at it and make that 2 stroke Lada engine work! All the best from Canada...
You should have done it like Detroit diesel did in their 2 stroke line. Use a blower to feed air and in this case, air and fuel. You would need a longer piston skirt to block off the intake ports while piston is moving up to prevent fuel/air from entering crankcase.
Great engineering and fabrication - you guys go to enormous lengths to do these projects. Respect!
I love this channel no click bait no bs just awesome experiments with talented guys!
This was brilliant, i'm really looking forward to part 2 of this. I know you'll get it running eventually.
Keep the factory head, with the valves, but change the timing gear and cam lobes to run a two stroke timing diagram. That is, make it a valved two stroke.
They should make it like a Detroit deisel with holes in the bore at the bottom and use the existing valves for exhaust and they would have to use a supercharger
Valves give less flow area, add weight, size, complexity and use power to move with no advantages. There is really no good reason to use them in a 2T.
I should add - valves as found in a 4T engine. There are other kinds which can be of benefit to 2T's.
@@siraff4461 then why do Detroit deisel use them
Oh yeah ...like a Detroit huh? Wow ur smart and original! 😂
I really want to see you guys pull this one off anything with a two stroke is so cool to me!
Even though it didn't really run, you did get it to fire. I think this was one of your best endeavors! It takes quite a bit of knowledge and creativity to accomplish this!
just hearing a lada engine 2t sound is enough !
@@boronat1 I agree!
But they didn't accomplish anything.
Awesome!!
So things to look into!
I would definitely reference alot of outboard engines for design ideas. There are many 2-8 cylinder engines displacing up to 4 liters (Mercury Optimax's or Johnson/Evinrude Etec's and older are good examples). It's definitely possible.
Suggestions from a guy who's been around these 2 strokes for years.
Maybe put a dome to the pistons in a way to help with Scavenging inside the combustion chamber.
Look into "Surface fire" spark plugs (NGK BUHW) then you can get the piston really close to the spark plug and help bump up your compression. You are loosing alot of volume Due to the ports so every little bit counts.
Another thing:
The backs of these 2 stroke crank cases are practically open and covered in Reed Valves. Often times having a small carburetor per cylinder. Maybe try fitting another carb and more Reed valves. Remember you have to have enough fuel and air charge to fill the bottom of an entire crankcase. While also loosing alot of potential fuel charge from Fuel contacting surfaces to be lubricated.
Also the crank case definitely needs to be sealed between the two. Any sharing of charge will completely disrupt the charge coming into the crankcase, and being pushed into the combustion chamber.
Ignition timing is another huge factor. These engines often idle at 0° BTDC and advance with the throttle up to as much 32°BTDC. Now this one id say 18° area WOT and 0 or even a little After TDC. Like 2 or 3°.
If I can think of any other suggestions, I'll definitely update this and hopefully it helps! We Definitely need to see this running.
This. I was thinking higher compression a better spark plug and 2 smaller carbs for better mixture. And advanced timing is huge.
A few suggestions:
1. In a multi-cylinder 2-stroke crankshaft have a labyrinth seal between the main bearings to stop the gases flowing between the individual crankcase chambers.
2. You are correct you need a tight seal between chambers, you will probably need to use thicker plate and then machine the top face and make a gasket.
3. The crankshaft on a 2-stroke has large cylindrical discs that take up a lot of the volume of the crankcase chamber that helps create a higher induction vacuum.
4. The crankcases need to be as tight to the cylindrical crank disks to reduce the volume of the crankcase, as in point 3.
5. Efficient scavenging relies on back pressure in the exhaust, 4 x expansion chambers would be best, but any sort of exhaust would help.
6. Mount the carburettors as close to the intake ports as possible, maybe 4 individual carburettors from a 4 cylinder motorcycle.
@@tobiascat6173 I am 61 years old so my knowledge and ideas are certainly dated 😅But the 2020 KX250 crank has large disc crank and tight crankcase, so does the KTM, so I guess it's still used in competitive scenarios.
i know that making a 2 stroke and history of it and teaching lessons about it is 20 hours video vhs
by yamaha companys a women teach it ...
yes a woman
and this invention plus kips on 2 stroke is yamaha invention
and then others got from them
so this is near the invention
not just changing intake out take exhause cranck case port pressure ... timing
it is invention 2 stroke + kips
ok ?
no crank case idea made this month on minds by watching diagram of animation of 2 stroke explorer surfer
ktm 125 2 stroke 2022 or 2023
cross bike ... improve that 2 stroke is invention not only knowledge that how its worked on a half engine vertically cut difference 4 stroke half engine cut show
yamaha told me confidential and secret that 2 stroke and kips is their invention
indeed there was not anything at their address just a final fantasy silent place with plants over empty building company
Just putting it out there: many people in the comments didn't notice that these guys DID infact include transfer ports from the crankcase chambers into each cylinder intake
You guys are awesome. Cheers from the states. I really want an old Lada to putt around in. Reliable tanks
Each cylinder needs its own separate chamber in the crank case for this to work, otherwise the fuel/air mix isn’t going to be forced into the chamber with a shared case. each cylinder also needs a separate transfer port that connects the chamber with the crank case. You can reference the Kawasaki H2 triple to see how multi cylinder 2 strokes are setup
Crankcase compressor wont work because they have no transfer ports.
Each piston needs its ports too
Matching cylinders don’t need to be separated, as long as they’re paired they’ll work, but they didn’t have a transfer system
Creo saber porque no se mantiene... intenta poner carburadores independientes a cada cilindro además recuerda que en 2t la mescla ingresará al cilindro desde el cárter al subir el piston genera el vacio en el cárter esto obliga a la mesclar entre al cárter cuando baja el piston"comprime " el cárter haciendo qué traslade la mescla al cilindro.... además debes cubicar la cámara para así saber cuanto cm³ deberá ser tu cárter por cada 100cm³ de cilindro el cárter debe ser 150cm³ aprox doy un loco inventor también saludos
I built a Honda d15a 2 stroke here in nz many years ago, it used a roots supercharger and the crankcase was left standard. I drilled and taped transfer and exhaust ports to accept treaded pipe. It made very good power for a 1500 and sounded amazing!
Hey dude, do you have any videos/photos? IG?
I was looking to see if it's too hard to make a 2 stroke D16 and never heard of someone making before your comment!
Hey, are you there? Can you show me something about it? Explain? Thanks ✌✌
Hello? Any news?
you could try reading the crank pressure using a compression tester. You def need good seals between the inner and outer crank case areas, and if you can LOWER the empty volume in the crankcase that will also help with getting it running; the closer your crankcase is in volume to your piston volume, the better vacuum it'll pull on the intake, and transfer more strongly.
Two stroke piston rings are often pinned in place to keep them from rotating until the ends catch in the ports, in addition to the other problems
Exhaust is a major key factor to a 2 stroke. It needs an expansion chamber, this helps keep the air/fuel inside the cylinder.
Well, I have not even watched the episode yet, but you guys never fail to amaze me so let’s do it here we go
I think you should shorten the distance between the carburetor and intake flaps. You definitely need a exhaust. The sealing in the chambers ia also important,but it might work without doing it.
Keep up the good work! Great videos!
Was thinking the exact same. With all that extra room between the carb and the reed valves, you are not getting proper atomization.
It's getting there! watching your previous videos gives me the confidence that you will figure this out. It sounds great when it fires... can't wait to see you guys getting it to run on it's own power. If anyone can do it, You can!
I think you are right, it might need 4 or 2 separate crankcases.
Don't give up, please. 😀
Won't run way it is even with sealed off per cylinder. No transfer ports. As is,needs forced induction.
@@shawnsatterlee6035
No transfer ports, that was something I over looked, good point.
Great idea. Don't give up. You are so close. I can't wait for the next episode.
With a 2 stroke 2 inhale ports and 1 exhaust port. You need also the back pressure from the exchaust to work properly.
And a separate are intake will also help.
I'm sorry for my bad English because I'm not native speaking / writing in English.
Wish you good luck with this project and thanks for all what you already created 😁👍
Not really. Needs transfer ports if thinking as a typical 2stroke. Which obviously this isn't for many of reasons. Needs forced induction or will never actually run.... Aka Detroit diesel!
I absolutely love what you're doing here; it's no easy feat. You can do it fellas, and I can't wait to watch (and hear) it run when you do 👍 Fantastic content 👌
cut and weld the crankshaft so all pistons are TDC and firing at the same time. Then you won't have to isolate the crankshaft chambers. Got my first cox .049 2 stroke running 40 years ago they are a wonderful thing. You guys rule!
Good grief. I remember the Cox .049 engines! Thanks to lawyers, such toys haven't been sold in decades. The first Cox-powered airplane I got (for Christmas) was a Boeing P-26. The kind that had the two long strings, connected to a handle that controlled the elevator, and you went round and round and round and round with it. You HAD to fly it until it ran out of gas.
Those spring starters would NEVER be allowed on any toy today! I imagine a few inexperienced fingers got whacked when it started.
Umm no! U obviously don't understand many things!
@@BlackPill-pu4vi I had the PT-19 control line, same setup as yours. Yeah that thing took a bite out fingers with its razor sharp prop. Never got to fly it because I couldn't keep it running. Thanks for sharing brother!
@@shawnsatterlee6035 Care to explain?
You could try to make it a 2 cylinder two stroke. Use the cylinders in pairs so that for instance cylinder one acts as the crankcase for cylinder two and the same thing between 3&4. Two combusting cylinders and two pumping cylinders. This way you can also keep to stock lubrication system running.
@@tobiascat6173 It makes it more complex but since the crankcase pumping appears to be the issue, it would solve that. And if the crankcase pumping issue gets sorted and the motor starts running, the lubrication will become an issue.
You need to mix 2 stroke oil with the fuel so it lubricates and seals the cylinders. Also the ignition timing must be adjusted to fire at the correct time which is at a different point of piston travel with the 2 stroke. 50:1 ratio of oil to gasoline, and make sure to use 2 stroke oil specifically. Hope that helps!
Don't worry about the rod bearings that don't need oil🙄
Lmao. The stupid is strong here!
I love this kind of high-tech shade tree mechanics. I am waiting for the robot cantina to release his new vid tomorrow and might have found my new favorite channel here. Thanks for the video guys. Keep up the great work and God bless.
Don’t two strokes- need finely tuned exhausts to scavenge ?
no, but it would be better for power
yes, the resonance created in the exhaust is important to maintain compression
Im baffled at the off the shelf "coil on plug" conversation 😂
Should have built it as a uniflow 2 stroke, use a blower to push the mixture into the cylinders via the inlet ports and cut and rotate the camshaft lobes so both valves act as the exhaust with the cam driven at 1:1 with the crankshaft
I was thinking same - however I forgot that cam would need to be run at crank speed! Great point.
So basically a gas powered detroit
Pretty sure they was trying to do something like this.. ruclips.net/video/ZjadL2Iit_I/видео.html
But i think there Fuel mixture is wrong as i see alot of oil coming out. One issue i seen..
The other being the carb being too far form the engine.. The more it bounces and shakes the more air bubbles you put in the fuel lines as it enter the carb..
If it was fuel injection it wouldnt be a issue.. But its not..
Other than that it should work..
@@soulwarrior7721 they had too much crank case volume, intake charge was too weak.
Yup just like a good old dirty Detroit 2 stroke diesel use exhaust valves and a regular head with an air box setup and ported cylinders with a blower. I also believe that there is a timing issue possibly lack of or too much advance and is why it runs when being pulled but can't support itself
You lads have the patience of a saint, 2t engines are a head duck when they go wrong, let alone trying to convert a 4T. Excellent viewing material. Convert each cylinder to its own cylinder and have the firing time at the same time. You will get a balanced problem. You are chasing your tail with this 1 lads
Im very sure that the timing is wrong! Check the timing!
One thing i absolutely love about engines and cars is that it doesnt matter what country your from. We all love them the same and its commen in every country. Great job guys 👍
I absolutely Love that you have gone to the effort to put ports into a four stroke block!!! Yes but as others have said similar; the intake ports go UNDER the piston!,,, Then additional transfer duct & ports from crankcase to 'above-piston'!! I Love that you make such elaborate modifications!, I think your separate crankcase departments will be OK! You will need to extend the piston skirt (bottom sleeve) down longer, for it to cover the new intake/ carburettor port, untill piston travel about 15mm before top of stroke (but will the longer pistons hit the crank!?)
You need seals between each bottom end crank chamber and the chambers themselves are quite large which isn't ideal.
The ratio between air under and over the piston must not exceed equilibrium or it won't be able to create enough flow to run for more than a few seconds - until its revving to the moon at least. The reed valves will help with that which is why it tried harder after they were fitted but the bottom end still needs to be sealed between cylinders if you want it to work.
The under piston sealing and pressures are critical. Without them its not going to run well if at all.
However.....
You made an engine a while back which had all the pistons moving on the same plane. If you used that then sealing between the cylinders wouldn't matter because it would act as one large engine.
I really hope they keep working on this, I find it extremely interesting. Also, Doesn't it need an exhaust expansion
chamber for proper function?
a 2t works without a pipe in low rpm
...and custom pistons so it will scavenge. There's quite a bit wrong with the current design that's keeping it from running.😉
no
No. That may help performance depending on the engine's base design, port heights and so on but it certainly doesn't need one to run effectively.
Same engine twice the ignition cycles. You don't need a smaller motorcycle carb, you need a bigger carb. You have spark and timing, but you don't have proper compression. Intake and exhaust have reed valves that allow one way travel. Intake into the cylinder excuse out. Also, if i remember correctly from my dirt bike days, the rings are on the bottom of the piston and the rings don't go past the reed valves.
Two stroke motorcycle engines use the crankcase as pump for air fuel oil mixture out of carb and into cylinder.
I figured you would increase the tooth count of the cam to match 1:1 rotation with crank, weld the intake valves or convert to exhaust, double timing, get it to run with a creative intake addition to push the exhaust out as the piston rises to tdc. I am equal parts surprised and impressed that you completely reinvented the wheel with this one. Good luck with this one, i am rooting for ya.
Man, this is absolutely crazy that they attempted it in this way, it’s amazing
That is something I’m really looking forward to see! Congratulations
The crank is set as 2 up and 2 down. If it is set more like a sequential crank so that each piston comes up each quarter turn, maybe it work fire better.
The carter is very large, they have to shrink it so that the piston compresses the mixture better to make it reach the cylinder with more speed
Things you do with them ladas is borderline genius..
Nice video! I think the main problem here would be the timing. In 2 stroke engines ignition timing is set from 0.4mm BTDC to about 5mm BTDC. In 4 stroke engines I assume that the ignition timing has to do with valves timing. Also în order to worck properly the engine must not have air leaks în crankcase or at The carb jonction. This is why I think în 2 stroke the crankcase is separate from each cylinder. Otherwise the vaccum produced from 2 cylinders will be cancelled by the other 2 comming down. Cheers!
Primary crank case pressure needs to be high by having a tight fitting oil pan and separate from the other cylinders.each rod journal should have its own main journal
Thank yall for all y'all's hard work for everything y'all do for our viewing pleasure RUclips should be paying y'all way more money
Very cool. In the early 2000s some American guys converted an air cooled VW motor to 2 stroke. Instead of sealing the bottom end it was more like a Detroit diesel I think, it relied on a roots blower to run. There was a video of it making a pass on the drag strip on streetfire but unfortunately that is lost to time
This has got to be one of the best youtube channels
Don't know what to suggest. But I do know they will overcome any obstacle. Never under mind the power of commenters and Garage 54. Good luck. Peace.
As a car vehicle technician from degree and a dirt bike mechanic as my job in free from school time i can say that the whole idea and execution is great, except one teeny tiny detail. Crankcase should be divided to 4 compartments, and every of them should be sealed. However you would need to cut cranksaft and make it press fit together. Also you could modify big end and drill holes for oil and crossing lines for lubrication. I'd love to see a lada with correct expansion chambers and tuned well so it has a really nice power band.
Edit: The problem why it isn't working is the crankcase. Because it isn't sealed it does not make high enough pressure to move air/fuel mixture from carb to cylinder, because of 2 stroke compression being much lower than 4 stroke and it just doesn't get enough air and fuel. You can bypass it actually by putting a electric 12v turbo charger between intake and carburetor or a ton of work with crankshaft and crankcase. By the way you could grind very wide holes in counter weights and weld a piece of sheet to lower the weight of crank but keep the volume the same which will maintain good pressure. If you want to pull it off it will take a looong time and it will be many ups with much more downs before you get it to run
Port timing is critical. You need an adjustable plate that you can move up and down until you find the sweet spot. Also, and expansion chamber exhaust is needed for EACH cylinder. This helps pull the mixture through the cylinders.
I've worked with 2 stroke engines for over 2 years now and rebuilt a couple engines. You need to have the intake port lower than the exhaust port for it to create good pressure. Also try a real 2 stroke carburator. Pwk. Phbg etc and give every cylinder their own carburator. This is to give the right amount of fuel for every cylinder to fire correctly. As it is it distributes the fuel unevenly causing it not to run.
That's what i was thinking, no cc pressure forcing the fuel into the cylinder. Maybe some forced induction? Coolest project I've seen in a long time. I wish i could come visit your shop and mess around.
It's mind blowing what you guys pull off with basic machines
Like the Detroit diesel, you may greatly benefit from a positive airflow intake instead of a negative one to pull fuel and air in.
Also, treat it like a V8. Twice the amount of air and fuel is needed compared to a 4-stroke since it’s firing every rotation instead of every other rotation, but you also get twice the power strokes too for the same sized engine.
It looks like they combined the crankcase and the scavenging port into one continuous port with the square tube. I bet that’s why it won’t really run. Adding reed valves helped because it eliminated the blow back up to the carb from the crankcase on piston downstroke, but the direction of air fuel mixture needs to make a complete 180 direction change as it enters the crankcase from the carb intake runner, then go back out again up the crossover tube to the intake port. That prevents the mixture from being able to gain any momentum.
A two strokes intake is mainly within the crank case.The vacuum created from the piston traveling up draws in the fuel air mixture into the crank case. As the piston starts traveling back down the intake on the crank case is shut off via means of a read valve or rotary valve.
the pressure from the piston traveling down now forces the air fuel mixture to the combustion chamber via passages from crank case to cylinder ports. That's how it works.
Sadly what they tried here would never work, because the intake port is WO at BDC there is no vacuum to draw in the fuel and air.
I feel like the 3 intake tubes to 4 cylinders has something to do with it. The middle 2 feed off 1 tube which want to fire but 1 & 4 are on their own large port. If cylinder 1 & 2 was on one intake tube and 3 & 4 on a separate intake tube that it would effectively equal out and have the proper air/fuel mixture since one would be on exhaust stroke and the other on intake stroke. I cant wait to see the next video on this!
Connecting the carb to the chamber on the manifold inlet port and running exactly 98 octain mixed with gear oil always works.
I love your ingenuity and work guys you all deserve 10 million followers 😸👍... отличная работа, ребята, я уверен, что однажды вы станете еще лучше.. Да благословит вас Бог
Not just a 2-stroke, a two stroke flathead with electronic ignition. What a Frankenstein's monster.
Each cylinder needs to be sealed from each other in the crankcase so when the piston is travelling down it creates pressure underneath the piston in the crankcase which then needs to push the air up and around into the cylinder above the piston, this type of crankcase seal in a marine application is called a Labrynth seal, the port that allows the pressurised crankcase pressure to travel into the cylinder is called a transfer port.
Labyrinth*
You guys have the coolest things! Keep it up!
The first problem is, what force do you think the mixer is sucked into the combustion chamber in the two-cycle engine? You can see that when you look at where the carburetor is. In the original two-cycle engine, the force of vacuum generated when the piston is facing tdc is sucked into the crank chamber and then back up to the combustion chamber by the pressure coming down to bdc. But in this experiment, the carburetor is directly connected to the combustion chamber, so there is no force to suck the mixer in, so a supercharger is needed to push it forcibly. The second problem is basically one of the essential factors for two-cycle engines to require the pressure of exhaust gas. Because the structure opens the exhaust passage when the mixer enters the combustion chamber, there is not enough time for the mixer to stay in the combustion chamber. So, the chamber is installed to keep the exhaust gas under constant pressure. This is what the higher the rotation, the more necessary it is.Thank you always for the fun videos and I'm enjoying them.
I do love what you are doing, with video, good/bad/ugly but honest,,I admire your effort.
In my opinion it's that you have to have exhaust restriction make good compression with a 2 stroke. That's why they have funny shaped exhaust, to create a resonant wave that pushes fuel and pressure back toward the cylinder
I recall a French chap building a V twin Mobylette with a shared crankcase. After a lot of effort he made it deliver about 1.1x the power of a single engine 😀
(Like these guys, he only did it for larks)
It's ya ignition timing. You have supercharged induction. Inlet n exhaust slots maybe need moving or reshaping. The back pressure of exhaust is required 2 increase efficiency but it should run without. Twin starter motors maybe needed to get required spin speed for starting. You are nearly there. Good work:-). You never fail till you STOP!. keep goin
I think it needs 2 carbs as 2 pistons are up and 2 are down or 1 for each Cylinder very good to watch 👍
From what I could see you didn’t have the mixture go to the crankcase first for it to run properly you need the negative pressure from the case to press the mixture into the cylinder. You will also need to make transfer ports that don’t lead from the manifold directly to the cylinder although this would be possible if the manifold was also connected to the crankcase.
You need negative pressure from the crankcase.
Cool project, you guys save me so much time doing all the whacky experiments I want to do, but am too busy fixing everything around my farm, hah. I think you need more fuel at startup, any time I am cranking an engine, and it will sort of run while the starter is cranking or its being towed in gear, and it seems to improve the more you do it, I think it could be from getting more heat into the block, so my guess is it needs more choke/enrichment, to help starting when cold. But I'm sure you guys can read spark plugs to check for that. The other idea is, if the starter won't turn it over, maybe you made a crazy high compression "race" engine on accident, hah, and maybe increasing chamber volume would help? Last idea is maybe your port timing is off, or your home made port edges mangled the rings lowering compression. Good luck,
5:20 The exhaust port opened when in OT position, that means the crankshaft chamber let the pressured fuel-air goes away on the port here to the atmosphere, you should fit an other type of piston on the engine what don't let open the port in OT position. You must use reed walves because the inlet port and the transfer port are opened at the same time. And use short hose between cylinder and carburetor.
I feel like dedicated carbs to the cylinder pairs would help.
If the cylinder head warped while welding, over and under pressure could occur between cylinders. Maybe try a thicker plate, drill a large hole into the plate half thru and then drill/tap for the spark plug.
When it did fire, it definitely sounded like it had too much gas or too little air.
Combining exhausts for the cylinder pairs may help.
The reed valves you tried were a good call, I have no idea what the crank case seal from bay to bay is like and may also cause under or over pressure issues.
Timing is everything with 2 strokes.
1 . Keep both exhaust and inlet Ports above Piston Bottom dead center with exhaust OPENING slightly before inlet port.
2. Get Exhaust pipe manifolds LONGER and single to create EXTRACTION and VENTURI effect on combustion chamber.
3. Get IGNITION TIMING closer to Top Dead Center.
4. Get LUCKY 😁
I know nothing practical on engineering, sorry. I just wanted you guys to know I'm hoping there's a part 2 on this, good luck with your 2 stroke engine!
This is good lerning wish to see moreof theworking details in the videos so its easy to follow step by step 🤠
According to that piston size, the intake ports and exhaust ports are narrow. If you enlarge them it will work. Normally crankcase pressure is also need. But this will do the job.
You'll need a compressor and a valve for exaust to make it work properly, cause in 2 strokes the mix gaz/air is compressed by the down engine, and then injected into cylinders at he GOOD time...
This channel is insanely good !
I’d love to see you guys convert a normal, flat plate 4 cylinder engine to a cross plane 4 cylinder. Clock cylinders 2 and 4 by 90 degrees, and modify the camshafts to match the new timing.
As for this instance (4t to 2t), you might do well with forced induction. The crank case compresses the intake air charge on the previous power stroke in a normal 2t engine.
Best wishes!
We were hoping for that back when they were welding crankshafts.
@@android584 on a regular 2 stroke bike engine, the crankcase sucks air into it whenn the piston rise, because it now has more volume. when the piston comes down, it compress the mixture wich is then pushed into the top of the engine.
what you're missing here is any motion in the air . there is no reason for the air to enter the cylinder as the port opens at bottom dead center and the exhaust is opened at the same time, meaning the engine is simply at atmosphercial pressure , not under suction. so yea you would need a turbo or a compressor to force the air into the cylinder and it will work
Need a supercharger for it to run. All 2 strokes need an air pump of some sort for positive pressure on the intake port. Some work via the crankcase, others like diesels with oil sump need a supercharger to run (and is still considered naturally aspirated). Get positive pressure on the intake ports. Use a vacuum cleaner motor if you have to!
try the 2 stroke system with valves and ports like a Detroit diesel, it does not use the bottom end for induction, it uses a blower to force air in.
You need something to push the mixture into the cylinder, like a compressor. On such a two-stroke the piston must first open the exhaust port when it goes down to start evacuating the exhaust gases and the pressure in the cylinder before the opening of the intake port. This allows the mixture pushed by the compressor to enter the cylinder. And this mixture would have to go upwards when entering the cylinder to replace as much of the exhaust gases as possible before the piston goes upwards and closes the ports .
Good attempt, anyway. 🙂
You either need a forced induction to push the charge into the cylinders or some long narrow exhaust tubes to pull the charge into the engine through scavenging effect like the "tuned port cans" on dirtbikes
What you need to do is make up another block and this time leave the crankcase alone, leave it full of oil as it usually is.
Then fit a compressor (crankshaft driven supercharger) to the inlet to force the air and fuel into the cylinders instead of using crankcase pressure like you have done here.
Also the inlet ports need to be angled upwards pointing towards the sparkplug and opening at about 1/2 way through the exhaust port opening.
Good luck.i love your experiments.
Just somen thoughts of an ingnoramus:
For a better balanced 2t function the 4 neck crank should be modified so that no two pistons are at tdc at the same time. Essentiallly cut it in half and turn the other end by 90 degrees. Then the distributor must turn at 1:1 ratio with the crank The crankcase must have individual compartments per cylinder and each compatnent needs to have a one way intake valve.
Maybe a normal camshaft and head could be made to turn at 1:1 ratio as well with the valves opening near bdc, exhaust first at end of downstroke and intake at begin of upstroke, and intake bieng force fed by the crankcase. This way no ports need to be made and the timing can be adjusted.
I come for the jank. Garage 54 always delivers.
idea №2; mount 4 reed valves straight onto crankcase side (1 per chamber) then make 4 new passages from crankcase up to your inlet cylinder-ports! This wil give 'crankcase induction'! Also; the crank oil-ways could be converted/ re routed to grease caps (in cabin) with manual screw down, otherwise the crankcase induction will be flooded with oil.
2 smoke singles draw air fuel into a sealed pressurized crank case, sends it up to the combustion chamber and burps it out of the exhaust wit a tuned expansion chamber pipe. You gents are headed in the right direction..👍
As a two-stroke mechanic there are a few things to note.
I watched this a few times to figure out exactly how the intake is setup and i cant quite make it out from the video. It appears the intake runs directly to the cylnder lining transfer ports. If thats the case the design just wont function. You need to create a suction to pull air in. On a two-stroke that comes from the changing of crankcase volume. Piston goes up, crankcase volume increases, creates a negative pressure. Air is pulled into the crankcase tbrougb a set of reed valves. I didnt see reed valves anywhere in the setup either. When the piston comes back down, it decreases the crankcase volume, compressing the air in the crankcase, when the piston uncovers the transfer port, the compressed crankcase air blows into the cylnder.
If your air isnt passing through the crankcase, you arent building air flow. Remember air isnt pulled in from the piston coming down and building suction in the combustion chamber like a four stroke.
If you dont have a set of reed valves in each of the four air circuits then it wont run either. When the piston comes down, instead of compressing the air and blowing it in the cylinder, it will just blow the air back out of the intake.
If each air circuit is not air tight it will also not run right. I wont go into detail since you covered thag at the end of the video anyway.
To improve this could go two ways.
1). Reroute your intake. Air goes in the carb, splits into four intake runners. Each runner goes through a reed valve, then directly into the crankcase, each in its own isolated circuit. Then you make a second pipe, only a few inches long that connects the crankcase to the transfer port in the side of the cylinder lining.
To clearify aur comes in the carb, through the reeds, in the crankcase, builds pressure, then blows out of the crankcase and into the transfer port through a second intake runner.
Something to nite with this is that crankcase volune is important. You want to fill in the crankcase as much as possible. Basically reduce the amount of volume between the reed valves and the transfer port.
A lada is 1.6L engine. Each piston only covers .4L of displacement. So if the entire crankcase volume of one air circuit is say 1.2 liters of volume because the crabkcase is so large, then when the piston comes down, it goes from 1.2 liters of volume in the crankcase to.8. thats not alot of pressure. Its only building a few pounds of air pressure to blow air into the transfer port. If you can use epoxy to fill in the empty unused space inside the crabkcase and reduce the total volume you get mkre pressure. Say you reduce the total volume (with the piston at tdc) to around .8L, when the piston comes down (again reducing the volume by .4L) you have significantly more compression, more pressure forcing air out of the crankcase and into the transfer ports.
2). The ither method would be to ditch that entire setup and reroute your intake to that if a detroit diesel engine. Detroits are two strokes but also have an internal engine oil. Thiugh this eet up would be alot more expensive and probably couldnt be done with parts laying around the shop. Unless you just happen to have a powerful enough blower just laying around.
I would get rid of the big intake manifold and fit 4 motorbike carburators [ from a motorbike with the same or close to the CCs of 1 cylinder] mounted on a short intake adaptor close to the engine. I also think you need to do a better job seperating the cylinders in the sunp area, I would use the main bearing cap and weld flanges to them as seperators abd build 4 sepreate sumps with a carburator fitted to each sump. I would also play around with the timing and see it that helps. Good luck with it, I really love youe channel. Watching from Perth Australia.