SUBARU vs. TOYOTA vs. JEEP vs. HONDA on a little loose hill in Death Valley NP's IBEX MINE
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- In my last video of Echo Canyon in Death Valley National Park, Night 3 / Day 4 was about the Ibex mine area. I wanted to keep the video under 40 minutes, so I just showed the highlights and played music over it. I feel that this area deserves it's own video.
The Ibex mine is located on the southeastern side of DVNP, it's actually in DV wilderness land. One that I wanted to mention in this video is just how vast DVNP spans. I've been to all the 4 corners now, but I still haven't explored everything in between.
CHECK OUT THE LAST VIDEO OF DVNP HERE:
Echo Canyon:
• DEATH VALLEY NP: "TOY...
Lake Manly (rare and ancient lake)
• DEATH VALLEY NP: 3 da...
NAVIGATION
00:00 Intro
01:43 Race Against Time
03:19 Loose Steep Hill Climb
09:13 Moore House Mine
09:53 Vehicle Recovery
17:21 Hiking up to the mine
Follow along on the adventures with detailed write ups and GPX files on / jondz_adventuring
***please do not share coordinates publicly or with someone that you wouldn't trust, protect our public lands, thanks!
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BUILD INFO:
-SKID PLATES by No-Lo Designs - discount code "JONDZ5" for 5% off
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-ROCK SLIDERS by Traxda USA - discount code "JONDZ20" for 20% offf
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-3.5 INCH LIFT KIT by Traxda USA - discount code "JONDZ20" for 20% off
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-RIDGELINE SWAP (Strut/Shocks and Spring)
-RIDGELINE EIBACH LIFT SPRINGS. Front 0.8" longer, Rear 0.3" longer
-STRUT/SHOCK EXTENDER by New Age Performance (Ventura, CA)
-BRAKE AID LINE LOCK SYSTEM by New Age Performance (Ventura, CA)
-WHEELS - Black Rhino "Chase" 18" X 8", 120 x 5, 10mm offset, 26 lbs
-TIRES - Toyo Open Country AT3 255/70R18
-REAR HITCH TIRE CARRIER "Trailswing" by DirtCom USA
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-ROOF TOP TENT by Centori Outdoors - discount code "JONDZ5" for 5% OFF
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For and in depth write up on my midsized Honda BUILD, check out:
crossoverlanding.com/honda-ov...
For all other gear, check out my AMAZON STORE FRONT. I also have little gear review videos.
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Visit www.crossoverlanding.com for an AWD trail database, trail gear guide, and a link to join others.
#deathvalley #ibexmine #4runner #outback #subaru #toyota #toyota4runner #subaruoutback #jeep #jeepwrangler #jondz #jondzadventuring #overlanding #overlander #offroad #offroading #softroader #softroading #crossoverlanding #crossover #lightoffroad #CUV #SUV #outdoors #adventuremobile #vanlife #honda #hondapassport #hondaridgeline #hondapilot #ivtm4 #awd #subwaycave #4wd #vtec #vtecsociety #vtecnation #hondaoffroad #trailsport #twinclutchreardiff #twinclutch #jeep #carcamping #primitive #dispersed #remotecamping #primitivecamping #hondatruck #skidplate #sleepingincar #pasport #hillclimb #offroadrecovery 
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Man there is so much more to see in DVNP that I've never heard of this area. Thanks for the video Jon...gonna have to check this place out. Looks like some fun trail to do out there.
I've been to the Western, Northern and Eastern most areas of Death Valley, but now I discovered the Southern Most area thanks to guy driving the Jeep. I did a rough measurement on Death Valley and it's about 130 miles North to South and 70 miles East to West. There's alot for me to check out inbetween, but it's really going to start warming up.
Looks like a great time! At some point in my life will get back down to California for a trip to death valley in the winter 👌❗❗ I still have never been to death valley.
14:34 Very cool video!!! Lockers make a big difference going up a loose/shaley climb, and this video demonstrates that extremely well. It was wise having the most capable vehicle (the Jeep) go first, so they could be in front of the stuck vehicle, and that at least one vehicle (again, the Jeep) had a winch. That recovery would have been significantly more challenging (and very probably significantly more time consuming) without a winch. Doable without the Jeep, but more challenging. Great video!
Good observation. I was hoping my buddy Ed in the jeep would pull me up, but I was up for the challenge of backing down. It felt sketchy because I felt my vehicle sliding to the driver side, but was comforted (I would say "spotted", but my steering inputs weren't making much of a difference, I was just along for the ride) by my friends.
*Great job as always JonDZ* ❤✌️
Thanks Mr. GX460!!!
Your Honda has a great rear diff, basically a locker, and plenty of gearing, but the Honda AWD system doesn't like to send power to the rear. It likes to spin the front wheels. Maybe you need to "stay in it" and let the traction control system do its job. Or maybe you could apply light front brake pressure with your BALLs system. All the ingredients for success are there, you just need to master the techniques and develop other tricks to make everything work perfectly. What was your swaybar situation at the time? Good articulation keeps the vehicle's weight more evenly spread across the 4 tires, decreasing the possibility for one of them to get light and break traction. How is power transmitted to the rear on your Honda AWD system? Is it a center clutch like my Subaru? Maybe you could intercept that center clutch control signal and modify it to make it more aggressive. A lot of solenoids are controlled with a simple PWM signal. Maybe Manny can investigate that.
Yeah, how I felt about it after my attempt. The only open diff in my Honda is the front, and that's where power in the system will escape. I tried engaging the front brakes, and maybe I did it wrong, but it didn't make much of a difference. On another failed steep and loose hill climb, I drove 3 mph faster, and I drove up like butter. It doesn't even look like I'm sending it :P Check out the intro. ruclips.net/video/ewz_bNd6HG8/видео.html and then skip to 15:23 to see how badly I failed the first two times, haha. Thanks for the Comment Matty!!
Oh! In the previous video, I disconnected my front sway bar in anticipation of climbing these level 4 steps. When I got to the obstacle it was a level 5 obstacle and well out of my vehicles capability and driving skill, so I just turned around. We were pushed for time so I never reconnected the front sway bar. Because it was disconnected, I thought I would have a good chance. Now, regarding the 4runner, I was so confident with her 4WD and a rotational lock front to rear, she would make easy work of the obstacle, and I was wrong. She spun tires as well.
@@JonDZ_AdventuringI watched that steep, loose, rutted climb. That definitely requires momentum, even when straddling the worst of the deep ruts. There's a very relevant off-road saying, "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary." You can use momentum without going full potato like Milton, haha. That Honda of yours is a big girl! Ever though about making a video at home about simplifying your load-out? I would be neat to start with everything but the kitchen sink, then remove stuff and see how much weight you can save.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Glad to hear that your swaybars weren't holding you back. "But the 4Runner is the best!" "Way better than AWD!" I think they are a lot closer in capability that most 4X4 owners think, especially in the hands of an experienced AWD driver.
The subaruski legend himself!
The double edge sword of Honda's i-vtm ( not the "real time AWD " which is slip & grip) is it's all clutch based. This is amazing on paved roads and pretty capable off road since it's can send 70% of torque to the rear and 100% either left or right wheel for active torque vectoring.
The downside to a multi-plate clutch system is clutch plates can't hold on to high torque for a long time i.e. " lock" / true low range. This protects excessive clutch material from wearing off additionally clutch plates need thinner fluid to flow through the plates. A true locking rear Differential uses a much heavier oil plus solid gears + solid axle which aids in the strength and cooling capacity. But limits on road performanceand generally slower response
Brake base torque vectoring + ivtm might be the best mix of these technologies. Although j surprised I was only added recently to the Honda Pilot Trailsport which has ivtm standard.
Subaru has used brake based torque vectoring for a long time and it seems to work well. How subarus symmetrical awd + boxer engines puts power to the ground is simply amazing. Because the boxer is " longitudinal" the center diff is what governs the torque split. So in instances that demand is ~100%( yes there is loss) torque can go to the rear like climbing up a steep incline or loss of front traction. While during cruising it can be practically FWD. Honda's ivtm systems are integrated with a FWD based platform meaning power needs to be transferred through the transfer case then to the rear. This also means the front can't send 100% power to the rear , but can send torque quickly to the rear plus vary the amount.
I'm curious if Honda will ever bring back the true torque vectoring with electric motors in the MDX hybrid but for off road versus street performance
Those Toyotas, Just put them in A Track and have patience, They will just go about anywhere you want them to go
Man, I would air down as soon as we woke ip in the morning. If I’m gonna be on dirt for more than an hour I’m going down about 15 psi if its rough, 20 psi for good dirt roads. It takes 2 minutes and saves your tires and everything else.
I hear ya. We typically would, but this wasn’t too far from the highway, and it was just a dirt road except for the hill obstacle.
I think the Subaru threw as much rocks but just had the momentum to power through.
He has a pretty badass Outback, his ground clearance is impressive. He drove up when I was parking the Honda and I missed his first attempt, which he said was much smoother.
Said Subaru owner here! This was a rolling WOT pull ("for the gram") starting at the base of the hill. The recording was my second time up the hill as Jon mentioned. The first time I did it off-camera and took it slower (about the same as Jon in his POV video when he got stuck) and it made it fine thanks to the rear Torq locker. I'm sure if I didn't have that Torq Locker it would have gotten stuck in the same place as Jon in the Honda & Sandra in the 4Runner. I decided to send it for the second pass (on camera) just to see what would happen.
@@ZexGX The Torq Locker is a real game changer for older Subes! Before we would just weld the diff and pull an axle for street driving.
Man peoples comments are so ignorant about sandra driving. Its a brand new vehicle and it takes a bit to get used to it. Looked like another awsome adventure you all had.
She didn’t need to turn A-trac on or her locker rear axle, and the Toyota would’ve made it up on the first attempt
I agree she needs a little more experience.
But at least lock the center diff.
@@daviddauza4Runners don’t have a center differential. She was in 4LO, so the transfer case already has a rotational lock front to rear
@@gm-zz8soyeah, we all have to start somewhere. She’s coming from a momentum vehicle, so I knew she wanted to just “send it up”. I really thought she would get up with no issues. 1mph more could have made all the difference.
I can’t tell from the angle of the video, so just not enough perspective there; but sometimes when you got two wheels off in those fluff or in a ravine like that, just putting a traction board on the front wheel will help it up out of the ravine and bite into the road surface and get out.
Subaru owner here - we considered it, but using the Jeep was the safest option, so we went with that. If there were no vehicles in front of the 4Runner, we'd probably be busting out the traction boards!
Another good video Jon! (Good April Fools joke on FB also by the way LOL )
crazy seeing that cx30 out there haha
It’s like a Subaru crosstrek, but has an automatic transmission and a turbocharger 😃
that's @joemzd ! thing is sweet!
As much as I was tempted, I knew that hill was too much for me. I was standing off to the side, fortunately way away from the rock blasts.
Sandra, you should have let it scrape your bumper so you could justify buying a high clearance swingout bumper!
@7:35 great atrac demo
Nice video! Do you have transmission cooler installed on your passport?
Thanks, I have the OEM cooler, but not sure if it makes much of a difference. Takes a lot to get the transmission warm, so during this entire Death Valley trip, it was at operating temp.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks!
Iffy place to stand when winching. But do whatever floats your boat.
I kept that in mind. I felt like I was at an angle where I was just off the line of fire.
That person driving the gray forerunner needs to go back to offroad training and keep eyes on the road.LOL
She slid 2 feet into the ditch, something we all should be mindful of when out on the trails. Don’t get too close to the edge because it can collapse on you.
She was still on the road but the edge of it collapsed and turned into powder under the tires when she stopped to wait for the Jeep in front to park. When she started moving forward again the vehicle just slid to the right with all 4 tires instead of moving forward. Just bad luck.
@@ZexGX thanks for pointing that out Lee, I could see what happened from my vantage point.
How do I find a groups to go overlanding off roading with and or do you send out invites on a social media
That 4Runner was running stock BFG Dueller street tires… it’s 4wd system is superior to everything these there
Yes she was! She is also transitioning from a Subaru Forester and is still learning how to drive her 4runner. I think the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is the most capable here.
Thats right stock tires, that thing could easily go up that hill, just needed a little more experience.
If only Toyota made a solid axle Jeep competitor.
Landcruiser 80!! But I hear ya.... make a modern one please!
21:06 Forget "Rock Crawling" how about "Rock Racing"!!!!!
how many miles are you at?
My Honda is finishing up a 3000 mile total eclipse trip. Odometer is at 147K, but it’s really around 159K because of the taller tires (33”)
wranglers make it look easy
Not somewhere i would stand winching
She just gave the 4runner a bad image. She should have just kept the subaru. Looks like this is staged, to make the 4Runner really look bad.😅😅😅
Toyota fans are rough 😂. It’s my fault, I told her she could just drive up slow. I didn’t tell her that to get her stuck, I genuinely thought it would make it with no problem.
There's a learning curve to all vehicles.I owned many awd Subarus some even 4wd low transfer case! 4wd Jeeps 4wd Nissan and 4wd Toyotas!
Why would you buy a $50k Toyota and not learn how to operate it? Why would you travel with someone who's so obviously clueless as to how to operate a 4x4 with advanced tech?
Dude, she just bought it. Read what you wrote. In order to “learn” you have to put one step forward. That is what she is doing in this video. She is learning in a controlled environment with other people around her to help her. She is one of my very first overlanding friends and has been with me on many trips in her Subaru Forester. Quite honestly, she’s been to many places and is experienced driving her old vehicle. The real question is, why are you dissing? Learn to be a better human, take that one step forward bruh.
She’s wheeling just fine here: ruclips.net/video/EcKMwnEdZA4/видео.htmlsi=RLNv71RCIF8mhe1d
Well taking a vehicle out and driving it is part of learning. 👌
I owned and wheeled 4 Jeeps, i Subarus one Nissan and one Toyota. And a couple built road race cars! There's always a learning curve ❗