You really have to give it to F. P. Journe for being the only watchmaker to make series production watches which use solid 18k gold movement plates- a material which is quite hard to work with as a mechanical material because of its softness.
What the second person does at 1:23 is a no-no. You should not wind or mess with your watch while is on your wrist. After continuously doing, you may slightly bend the shaft. All of this should be done before you put on your watch.
That should have no negative affects on the staff (so long as you aren't on an African Safari, roller coaster, or participating in another vigorous activity) If anything you MIGHT break the stem (which could have been what you meant).
As said by others, when it comes to A.L&S, I'd invest just a little more and get the 1815, way more interesting in my opinion. However, great video! Looking forward to seeing more vids like this!
F. P. Journe is a no-go. Right after Lange manages 65 hours on a single barrel you have F. P. Journe's double barrel with 56 hours? That is the quality of German watchmaking, and most importantly German engineering. Then Lange makes probably the most perfect movements in the industry. As for servicing the comments in the video are incredibly ignorant - you do not service a 20k wristwatch with an 'average watchmaker', regardless if he wants to do it or not. If there are any parts that needs to be replaced a no-name 3rd party will be used, not original parts ordered directly from the manufacturer. If you have money for a watch such as the one described you will only service it with an original retailer. Another error - where did you get 10 000 watches for Lange? They make 4000 - 6000 watches a year.
F.P.Journe has a LOT of 5 day power reserve automatic models, while Lange has a norm around 70 hours with an exception of 30 day power reserve one but that is a manual winding model and insanely expensive. Does that impair ur "noble German blood" perception?
Now Lange has pushed the scale of some versions of the Saxonia to 35 mm; I really don’t understand why. They were beautiful and perfect in the 40 mm and 37 mm variants.
F.P Journe all the way! Exclusively, attention to detail, great power reserve, and luxurious materials. As for servicing this (as a watchmaker) it's nothing too terribly difficult. If you're experienced enough and well trained enough to even be considering something like this watch, the set of of the movement is unorthodox, but nothing that can't be done. As for the screws on the caseback, watchmakers are always making/improving tools so that's definitely something that could be made within a couple of hours if Journe doesn't supply it's accounts with tools (which wouldn't surprise me).
There are LOTS of great looking dress watches available for FAR less! Used Omegas, Seikos, et cet, every auction house on the planet has plenty to choose from.
LackadaisicalE they're not on the same level of what these guys are talking about tho. They make a point to show what the best options are with a decent but not crazy amount of budget-$20k.
The watches in the video are on a level on which look of the watch is an smaller factor compared to the pure mechanics of the watch, of course at that price everything is a consideration, and of course they are also limiting to what it can be buy new at the time of the video
mepicaeltrasero I understand that, but any list of suggested dress watches under 20k or so, has to include ATLEAST Omega. An Omega dress watch from the 40-50s is better looking than most, comparable to Vacheron Contantin dress watches in looks ( they actually look better than any VC, Patek, JlC etc dress watch, but ofc not in value of precious metals or finish in mechanics. But then again, you wont find a Vacheron Constantin dress watch for that price.) For a dress watch, you can never beat small, super simple, and super thin. A large dial, gaudy colours, an abundance of details, metal bracelet, any of that is a mistake in a classic dress watch. With dress watches, it is 'less is more'. So, if you want to spend 20K on a used dress watch, I think you have to include Omega from back in the day. The restoration will cost you a lot less, they hardly ever need maintainance, and you will still have your colleague in his Breitling, Rolex or other ask you to have a peek and envy its simple, classy design.
Lange wins this one, video is dress watch for 20, FP kills it for an every day watch masterfully switching from formal to casual. But if we're talking straight simple and elegant design Lange.
Thanks for this useful video. Last night I was dressing myself to go out and I only could find a pair of out of date Rolexes to wear on; what a shame. Then I thought to myself "I need a new dressing watch that costs less than 20K NOW" but couldn't figure out which one to buy.
Would love that Chronometre Bleu! But with prices climbing slowly but surely up to 40k, that is rather improbable, at least in the near future. I would also love, if A. Lange decided to produce watches not only in precious metals but also steel.
Very nice video & three great timepieces, what you get from F.P. Journe and his 800-900 watches a year seems much more bespoke and personally at that price it would be a no brainer! That is when I'm ready for a 20,000.00 dress watch.
fastcougar3200 Not quite as elegant as the JLC. Also, I don't like the 9 o'clock subsecond or the 40mm width. Now if they'd reduce the size to 38mm and moved the subsecond to 6 o'clock, it would still not be as elegant and thin as the JLC.
Noraddin Ghafel Yes, also people in Middle Ages have worn small panties and large boleros around their necks. If you wear those today one's might think you're a clown. Same with the watches or anything related to fashion. Now, who made this rule that a dress watch must be under 40mm? A dwarf? What dress you best is something perfectly proportioned for your wrist so a 44mm Pam will dress for a 8" wrist. A 40mm will have a chance too but for sure no big ones should wear a 37mm dresser in this century.
fastcougar3200 While I do agree on your point made about watches fitting different sized wrists, there are watches that are big for a reason. A diver is big because it's supposed to withstand dings and the likes (that you don't expose your dress watch to), and a bigger/thicker watch will distribute the force of the pressure under water better than a small thin watch. When you make a dresswatch 40mm+ wide, and that's a 3 hand watch that maybe has a date complication, the watch will just look like a dinner plate. This is why I PERSONALLY would never wear a 39mm+ dresswatch, unless it's a chronograph or if it's complicated, (or just really special and unique in its design). Watches aren't fashion, nor are watches classed under jewelry. A watch is an instrument that tells you the time, therefore, function is more important that "what is in". Besides, watches became large in the late 90s/early noughties, and I really believe (and hope) that the craze for oversized time-pieces will eventually die.
I really think you would be a fool not to go with the F.P. Journe in my opinion. Considering you may not see another person wearing one in your lifetime. It's definitely going to be FAR more interesting than either of the other watches and in my opinion I think will be worth FAR more in the future.
Wow… I was certainly right about the Journe being worth far more (I see $115k today). So I’ll update my assessment and say the Lange is now the best at this price point.
Good insights and I appreciate the objective opinions; neither Ben nor the other guys showed unreasonable bias. I am a Lange guy hands down and own a few currently; so my money would go to the Saxonia however the Chronometre Bleu is a close 2nd in this instance. I have a difficult time classifying the Journe as a dress watch with the dial font and hands; however the movement is wonderful. Maybe consider discussing the value behind each of the names. I feel the fact that Journe is tied to the man himself, the brand may be inherently stunted going into the future. Kudos for staying away from Patek as well; the 3 brands represented here give equal care to entry level models like these as they would high-complications.
Would be happy with any of the three if I could justify spending £20k on a watch. If I had to pick I’d choose the Vacheron Grail watch still a Breguet Classique manual wind in rose gold
I also wanted to share like those three guys that my watch also cost me under $20. I bought at a Goodwill store it has twin sensor, light, mode, compass, and best of all is not that rare because everyone can own a Casio.
i want to like the FP Journe, but those hands are, to me, just goofy. Too casual. Very forward movement, though. Great looking. The VC Pat. Traditionnelle is super comfortable on the wrist, but not as comfortable as the VC Patrimony.
Thank you very much for making these videos :) Great review, hoewever I would've enjoyed a few more minutes of details, tech-talk and your personal opinions. Seemed like you cut it down quite a bit. Maybe you could upload more material in an addtional video (maybe only linked here?) - see numberphile channel: they always have a 'main' video and then some additional minutes released later on.
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Yeah... throwback to those days when one could get a Chronometre Bleu for under 20K hahahahah
They really meant it in this vid when they said if they had $20K, that they would "invest" in a Chronometre Bleu.
I came back to this video laughing too lol
😭
The guy on the left and right look like they fuse to be the one in the middle.
This is a strong contender for comment of the year.
Fusion ha
Lmao
it really is
Journe can use all the gold in the world for its movement, but the best looking movement is the Lange.
Are theses guys all the same person? o_0
Delage Eric hipsters are people too, i think :D
Delage Eric Delage my dear foe... How do you do ?
Fletcher DeMaine Why Yes, that's correct! They're all based on the Milhouse Van Houten fambly.
Sweater + glasses = watch expert. Bonus points for selvedge jeans and killer collection of vinyl. :)
you glassist
You really have to give it to F. P. Journe for being the only watchmaker to make series production watches which use solid 18k gold movement plates- a material which is quite hard to work with as a mechanical material because of its softness.
the Vacheron Constantin's Patrimony Traditionnelle is my favorite of all the three available. i can tell im going to enjoy collecting watches.
Glasses and sweaters club right here!
i'll go with FP
+Abhishek Srivastava its just on another level really
fast forward 5 years and Journe is nearly double the price now at $40,000!
It's a $100k watch now.
i would buy the A.Lange&Söhne.
That Vacheron in white gold or platinum looks gorgeous!
This is the video that put FP Journe in the map.
Why not buy 100 Orient Bambinos?
Massive oversight on their part not mentioning this.
What the second person does at 1:23 is a no-no. You should not wind or mess with your watch while is on your wrist.
After continuously doing, you may slightly bend the shaft. All of this should be done before you put on your watch.
I noticed that as well. Being a 'watch aficionado' he should have known better
Amen.
That should have no negative affects on the staff (so long as you aren't on an African Safari, roller coaster, or participating in another vigorous activity)
If anything you MIGHT break the stem (which could have been what you meant).
Karson Barnes Then, you should contact Patek Philippe and explain them to take off this comment from their manuals.
Can we remove one of the zeros? Three on Three: Dress Watches Under $2,000.
LordDavid04 how about another zero?
Timex makes great watches for $50. You can also buy a car for less than a grand. There are price points for everything.
Hamilton makes amazing watches for just under 2K
Longines are the best for under 2k
The f p journey Chronometre blue is now selling for 40,000 USD on the grey market. Insane increase in value.
Are they born from the same womb or produced from the same factory ?
vai
lol
The fact that FP Journe is in the same sentence as Lange and VC is a huge win for them. It gets my vote out of these 3 examples.
How hard is it to buy a watch under 20K really?
I know it has been 5 years but the F.P. Journe in this video is going for $40K now.
As said by others, when it comes to A.L&S, I'd invest just a little more and get the 1815, way more interesting in my opinion.
However, great video! Looking forward to seeing more vids like this!
All just beautiful pieces. You cannot go wrong with either one. Here's to the dreamers; that we may be able to afford such magnificent time pieces.
Do you guys all shop at j crew?
lol
I love that A Lange & Sohne.
The Lange... nobody comes close to their finish and complexity.
Wow. I'm not sure if I'll ever to have a watch of this caliber in my collection, but I sure do love watching these videos. Thanks for making them!
The fp journe Is amazing... first time I'd pick anything before a Lange
F. P. Journe is a no-go. Right after Lange manages 65 hours on a single barrel you have F. P. Journe's double barrel with 56 hours? That is the quality of German watchmaking, and most importantly German engineering. Then Lange makes probably the most perfect movements in the industry.
As for servicing the comments in the video are incredibly ignorant - you do not service a 20k wristwatch with an 'average watchmaker', regardless if he wants to do it or not. If there are any parts that needs to be replaced a no-name 3rd party will be used, not original parts ordered directly from the manufacturer. If you have money for a watch such as the one described you will only service it with an original retailer.
Another error - where did you get 10 000 watches for Lange? They make 4000 - 6000 watches a year.
The double barrels on the FPJ is for consistent power dispersion, not for maximum power reserve.
F.P.Journe has a LOT of 5 day power reserve automatic models, while Lange has a norm around 70 hours with an exception of 30 day power reserve one but that is a manual winding model and insanely expensive. Does that impair ur "noble German blood" perception?
Now Lange has pushed the scale of some versions of the Saxonia to 35 mm; I really don’t understand why. They were beautiful and perfect in the 40 mm and 37 mm variants.
Because 40mm doesnt make sense for a dresswatch. Dresswatches cant be as large as sportswatches or dive watches. It is ment to be elegant.
No brand can compete with Lange, not even Patek. Reality
I would go for the ALS 1815 instead of the Saxonia, but it would be a hard choice between that watch and the Journe.
Great vid, keep it up
F.P Journe all the way! Exclusively, attention to detail, great power reserve, and luxurious materials. As for servicing this (as a watchmaker) it's nothing too terribly difficult. If you're experienced enough and well trained enough to even be considering something like this watch, the set of of the movement is unorthodox, but nothing that can't be done. As for the screws on the caseback, watchmakers are always making/improving tools so that's definitely something that could be made within a couple of hours if Journe doesn't supply it's accounts with tools (which wouldn't surprise me).
this video got me into journe years ago. crazy to see what happened to the prices
In my opinion Lange is making currently best from the best.
FP is absolutely gorgeous!
that FP is pulling at my heart
There are LOTS of great looking dress watches available for FAR less! Used Omegas, Seikos, et cet, every auction house on the planet has plenty to choose from.
LackadaisicalE they're not on the same level of what these guys are talking about tho. They make a point to show what the best options are with a decent but not crazy amount of budget-$20k.
The watches in the video are on a level on which look of the watch is an smaller factor compared to the pure mechanics of the watch, of course at that price everything is a consideration, and of course they are also limiting to what it can be buy new at the time of the video
mepicaeltrasero I understand that, but any list of suggested dress watches under 20k or so, has to include ATLEAST Omega. An Omega dress watch from the 40-50s is better looking than most, comparable to Vacheron Contantin dress watches in looks ( they actually look better than any VC, Patek, JlC etc dress watch, but ofc not in value of precious metals or finish in mechanics. But then again, you wont find a Vacheron Constantin dress watch for that price.) For a dress watch, you can never beat small, super simple, and super thin. A large dial, gaudy colours, an abundance of details, metal bracelet, any of that is a mistake in a classic dress watch. With dress watches, it is 'less is more'. So, if you want to spend 20K on a used dress watch, I think you have to include Omega from back in the day. The restoration will cost you a lot less, they hardly ever need maintainance, and you will still have your colleague in his Breitling, Rolex or other ask you to have a peek and envy its simple, classy design.
3 young lads talking about watches... Way to go kiddos!!!!
The Journe is absolutely gorgeous
Please do more of these! Different price points, for modern watches, classics, etc. :)
Lange wins this one, video is dress watch for 20, FP kills it for an every day watch masterfully switching from formal to casual. But if we're talking straight simple and elegant design Lange.
I was thinking the Lange was 25k for some reason. Not bad for 18k!
FP Journe for the win. And now 20K would be a steal.
The Journe looks awesome...
All 3 are gorgeous and love that you chose ones that have open casebacks, thanks for the review!
So many negative comments, video was very well done, love hearing commentary from people who actually know what they are talking about, great video!
Thanks for this useful video.
Last night I was dressing myself to go out and I only could find a pair of out of date Rolexes to wear on; what a shame. Then I thought to myself "I need a new dressing watch that costs less than 20K NOW" but couldn't figure out which one to buy.
kapullas just because you are not a watch geek, it doesn't mean some of us aren't c; I've been saving for 1 year and that constantin looks nice!
Thank God finally some budget watches under 20 thousands
Might as well have called it 3 dress watches in the $20k area we like - 3 German watches under $20 that went from Nomos to A. Lange
1. Lange 2. VC 3. FPJ
it has nearly been three years. hope there is another nicely made three-on-three coming up in the pipeline
I hear VC is coming out with a 36mm. Can't wait. I love that size in a dress watch
Would love that Chronometre Bleu!
But with prices climbing slowly but surely up to 40k, that is rather improbable, at least in the near future.
I would also love, if A. Lange decided to produce watches not only in precious metals but also steel.
I would prefer the Patek Philippe Calatrava ref. 5227
Very nice video & three great timepieces, what you get from F.P. Journe and his 800-900 watches a year seems much more bespoke and personally at that price it would be a no brainer! That is when I'm ready for a 20,000.00 dress watch.
excellent camera work as always and an eclectic choice of watches.. What camera and lens was used 5DMII/III and f1.4?
Great video. What a trio WOW 😮 Can I ask what the eye loupe is? Thanks
JLC Master Ultra Thin beats them (imo) for less than half the price.
Agreed
Zenih Ultra Thin will beat JLC too for about the same :reason:
fastcougar3200 Not quite as elegant as the JLC. Also, I don't like the 9 o'clock subsecond or the 40mm width. Now if they'd reduce the size to 38mm and moved the subsecond to 6 o'clock, it would still not be as elegant and thin as the JLC.
Noraddin Ghafel
Yes, also people in Middle Ages have worn small panties and large boleros around their necks. If you wear those today one's might think you're a clown. Same with the watches or anything related to fashion. Now, who made this rule that a dress watch must be under 40mm? A dwarf? What dress you best is something perfectly proportioned for your wrist so a 44mm Pam will dress for a 8" wrist. A 40mm will have a chance too but for sure no big ones should wear a 37mm dresser in this century.
fastcougar3200 While I do agree on your point made about watches fitting different sized wrists, there are watches that are big for a reason. A diver is big because it's supposed to withstand dings and the likes (that you don't expose your dress watch to), and a bigger/thicker watch will distribute the force of the pressure under water better than a small thin watch.
When you make a dresswatch 40mm+ wide, and that's a 3 hand watch that maybe has a date complication, the watch will just look like a dinner plate. This is why I PERSONALLY would never wear a 39mm+ dresswatch, unless it's a chronograph or if it's complicated, (or just really special and unique in its design).
Watches aren't fashion, nor are watches classed under jewelry. A watch is an instrument that tells you the time, therefore, function is more important that "what is in". Besides, watches became large in the late 90s/early noughties, and I really believe (and hope) that the craze for oversized time-pieces will eventually die.
I really think you would be a fool not to go with the F.P. Journe in my opinion. Considering you may not see another person wearing one in your lifetime.
It's definitely going to be FAR more interesting than either of the other watches and in my opinion I think will be worth FAR more in the future.
Wow… I was certainly right about the Journe being worth far more (I see $115k today).
So I’ll update my assessment and say the Lange is now the best at this price point.
FP Journe price has increased to $22,600 now and not including taxes
I love the Vacheron. If I got to vote. :)
Good insights and I appreciate the objective opinions; neither Ben nor the other guys showed unreasonable bias. I am a Lange guy hands down and own a few currently; so my money would go to the Saxonia however the Chronometre Bleu is a close 2nd in this instance. I have a difficult time classifying the Journe as a dress watch with the dial font and hands; however the movement is wonderful.
Maybe consider discussing the value behind each of the names. I feel the fact that Journe is tied to the man himself, the brand may be inherently stunted going into the future.
Kudos for staying away from Patek as well; the 3 brands represented here give equal care to entry level models like these as they would high-complications.
Would be happy with any of the three if I could justify spending £20k on a watch. If I had to pick I’d choose the Vacheron
Grail watch still a Breguet Classique manual wind in rose gold
F.P Journe just wins. It has the versatility, the exclusivity, best looking (both front and back) and lastly, people who know, knows.
Under 20k for chronometre bleu? Its so crazy how 5 years just changes everything
1..FP Journe 2..Lange 3 Vacheron
I also wanted to share like those three guys that my watch also cost me under $20. I bought at a Goodwill store it has twin sensor, light, mode, compass, and best of all is not that rare because everyone can own a Casio.
0:14 interesting we can figure out which watch it is, just by looking at the movement. We are such geeks.
hey, I am looking to find a chronometer bleu under 20k but, I can't. Is there a website which has listed it for under 20k?
Where do you find an FP for
You need a flux capacitor
VC is the better one here imo. However, I rather take 1815 or 5196/5296,
finally a video that will help me find a dress watch on a budget O.o
F.P. Journe: 2014 - $20,000... 2022 - $100 000 Good investment!!!
Watched this so many times. Wish they made more for all price ranges!
Can you do one for everyday watches.
Two words: can't lose.
The CB is now trading for $100K 🙌🏻
eh.. I'll stick with a Speedmaster.
I honestly don't know why Vacheron is in the holy trinity and Lange is not
37mm is the best for everyone .i think. It looks more elent than fp
Does anyone know, how much fp journe's service cost?
Presently 1320€ VAT included in Paris, including case polishing and a new leather strap.
They all look like the same person at various stages of his life.
There is no way I could be limited to $20,000 that seems impossible everyone knows you have to spend $35,000 or more !
Love all three but the Journe is truly superb!
I cant believe the audio editing, the cleaning has been made with an app.?
I would normally say Lange every time, but that VC might just edge the Saxonia...
I like how they say “under $20,000” as if it’s like a Walmart deal.
Its better to look good than to feel good.
Lange, thin dress watch without second hand, is better than these three.
btw, 1815 looks better than Saxonia..
i want to like the FP Journe, but those hands are, to me, just goofy. Too casual. Very forward movement, though. Great looking. The VC Pat. Traditionnelle is super comfortable on the wrist, but not as comfortable as the VC Patrimony.
they look so serious
All heavy hitters. Would throw in a patek also.
FP Journe for me.. but you cant get this watch for under 20000. Maybe at retail but that's virtually impossible..
JLC MUT Perpetual in steel is $20k and PWNS all three of these.
I want them all. Hahaha.. I like A. Lange better. I'm into Germany watches these days.
when did rolex stop making their movements in house? lol
I'd buy the Lange
Thank you very much for making these videos :)
Great review, hoewever I would've enjoyed a few more minutes of details, tech-talk and your personal opinions. Seemed like you cut it down quite a bit. Maybe you could upload more material in an addtional video (maybe only linked here?) - see numberphile channel: they always have a 'main' video and then some additional minutes released later on.
great choices
Plus tax over 20000 lol you should haggle like archie recommends pay cash and get 20 to 25 percent off or buy it second hand