You guys never cease to amaze me with your hilarious antics. That "protective" outfit that Trevor wore when "firing" the tennis ball really made me laugh out loud! Look forward to seeing the mini offroad rollback finished!
If you put vacuum on one side of the cylinder, two things will happen. First, cavitation. There are two ways to boil a liquid: heat, and vacuum. Second, if you put one side of the piston under vacuum, the resulting force comes from the atmosphere PUSHING the piston, for a maximum pressure differential of about 14.5psi. Your hydraulic pump obviously delivers a lot more pressure, and doesn't try to boil the fluid while it works.
Use the vacuum to remove the air add a hole to hook up your compressor. Then open the valve on the compressor pushing air into the vacuum behind the ball .
It's awesome seeing both of you, honestly some of my favorite dudes from Matt's channel I don't miss on his channel because y'all are so much better doing your own thing. 2:15 - I'd throw something at em' from across the shop for that one. Freakin' amazing response, I actually laughed.
The Mini truck is coming along great! We can't wait to see you guys put it to work with the mini Jeeps. Take Care! Jon and my "Mini" me Eli "Point Six...Ohhh" 😂
Shop I used to work in built cylinders. If you put a fitting at each end, with a selector valve each side would be pressure and the opposite would drain. Just like a log splitter.
“You can’t make a sound in a vacuum!” And then there’s the staged creeper and bit set for kicking and stepping on! Trevor is hilarious! Tucker is an excellent editor!
With a tight seal around the projectile, you needed to pull a vacuum on the tube in front of it. This decreases the air pressure that acts as a spring, stopping the ball before it leaves the barrel. The best results will be if you use the dump-tank to rupture the foil seal after the tube in front of the ball has been vacuumed. I can't wait to see further testing and dummy damage. Keep up the good work. Love your channel.
I’m just glad I don’t have to pick up all that glass!! 😱 You guys are hilarious! Oh dear! Trevor is going to need a back adjustment after that trip! 😳 Hope you weren’t “tweeked”! Can’t wait to see the finished little truck!
A genuine real laugh when the ship fell off the wall after Trevor's expert installation. Discount mythbusters with the three ex morrscuteers is hilarious. More Rudi please, he does go well with Trevor and Tucker. BTW watch out for the garage creeper, Trev. Gday from Australia. :)
3,2,1.. you sunk my battleship 😂 gold Years ago i worked in a frozen chip factory.. endless ammo... Needless to say the old shop compressor and reservoir made a great spud gun on wheels..😁
I think that vacuum on the single-acting cylinder resulted in the seal leaking. It's designed to hold fluid in, not keep air out. Once a little air gets in, the hydraulic pump can't function properly. But I know that you guys, along with Rudy and Zach, will work these issues out. "Misadventure Labs, overcoming physics one molecule at a time". 😊
I recommend y'all use a winch, cable and pulleys to move the bed back and forwards. Use a standard electric winch as a capstan and have springs provide tension on the cable. Mount a buffer battery and a 2nd winch on the tilting bed to pull vehicles up the ramp.
We use to make potatoe cannons and use acetylene to fire it when I worked at a scap yard about 30 years ago. We were getting enough power to drive the firewall of a car back about a foot.
You guys aren't old enough to remember this; back in the early 70's, we used to take 5 or 6 beer cans, cut each end out, then duct taped them together, we drilled a hole in the last can that had an end to it, We inserted a tennis ball, squirted lighter fluid into the hole in the bottom end, then we lit a lighter to the bottom hole, and then BOOM!!! The tennis ball shot out. It would go about 100 yards in the air. Several years later, the potato launcher was invented - that was fun too. BTW, we did live through all of this silliness. You guys are too funny. Trevor, watch out for that green creeper! Duck Dynasty of the Desert!
Some things never change, Trevor still trips over😅 Not enough volume of vacuum (if that makes sense) for the inrush of air to fire the ball out of the vacuum gun. Compressed air from the bead seater is the way to go!
Single versus double acting cylinders in hydraulics. Single acting cylinders need an additional force to compress, be it gravity or a return spring or something. Double-acting cylinders pump into the other end, pushing the rod back to it's starting position. The reason vacuum isn't involved could be attributed to diameter reduction from the vacuum (not likely), directional seals (unlikely), or the hydraulic fluid vaporizing (very likely). Pneumatics don't have this problem because there is no fluid to vaporize. Chances are if you hooked up Rudy's original design, the weight of the tilt tray itself would have helped the thing work a bit better, but if you were trying to cantilever a load up off the ground you would have run into one of the issues above.
Take some PVC pipe and place a valve stem in the wall. Glue up a chamber with a ball valve at one end and a cap at the other. On the other ball valve side install your barrel. Fill the air chamber with 5 pounds of air, place your projectile in the barrel and open the valve. There are many ways of doing this. It looks like you may have the other end plugged, or your losing all of your pressure out the back instead of in the barrel. Yeah, compressor tank will work.
10:33 that tire blaster right there is what we use on our potato gun but you have to be careful because an Idaho potato shot through a piece of 2 inch schedule 80 pvc will cause serious damage to things
Cavitation maybe(depending on viscosity of that oil, im not sure you could cavitate it enough to matter), but how about check valve, or flow limiter valves? Any ram I've worked around wont let fluid flow back very fast as a safety feature, even if its "released" to return as designed.
Your vacuum problem is very simple, the air pressure at sea level is just under 15psi and you are at a decent altitude so your pressure is probably closer to 14psi. That is the maximum you can get under perfect conditions. A double acting cylinder is your only possibility. Keep in mind that any double acting cylinder will have less force available when retracting as you must subtract the area under the rod itself. Have fun, love your work(?).
i belive the hydraulic seals are directional and need the oil to work properly, so if you put the cylinder under vacum they will collapse and let air into the system, so it wont pull anything
Watching the first few minutes, I was thinking “I wonder what Supply Center has in stock right now?” Lo and behold… Supply Center had some DC linear actuators a couple years back (12v or 24v or…?) from some sort of solar panel apparatus that had a working rating of 6000+ lbs. which probably would’ve also worked for your application. I was going to make a lift table that could double as a forklift, but I missed out on them.
The piston in a push/pull cylinder is different. They have double lip seals in opposing directions and a pressure line on both ends. The seals require pressure on the “inside” (pressure side) of the volume to seal. When you pull the “vacuum” you are actually pulling fluid past the seals and that gave you the goofy bounce trying to get it to close.
"Tell us why that doesn't work" My background: Since 1986 designing and programming automated machines that test hydraulic components, including gear pumps like the one in your hydraulic power pack. There are a lot of complexities in hydraulics, but at the root, this one is simple: That pump can push at maybe 3000 PSI or more, but it just can barely suck. That gear pump would like to see a positive pressure at its inlet (ie oil level higher than the pump inlet), but it might be able to suck at a few PSI, but only single or very low double-digits of negative PSI. And it won't like it. That's just how gear pumps (and most pumps) work. You need either a double-acting cylinder or two single acting cylinders working in opposite directions. Either way your valving will get a little more complicated, but nothing too crazy.
I’d just like to say: I am waiting with bated breath for a hair update video. I just scheduled my appointment yesterday for Estenove. July 9th boys!!!!!
On a scale of Mythbusters to Red Green I would have to give the tennis ball cannon more of a Red Green vibe but Rudy seems to have redeemed with the final construction.
If I recall the o rings if you want to call them that. They are beveled to take pressure the when gravity can work to let the piston close if I rember its been a minute.
The seals only work one way. When you push fluid in on one side, the seal "pushes out" and effectively blocks the oil, pushing the cylinder. When you suck on it, it pulls the seal and allows air to come in the other way. Double-acting cylinders have seals facing both directions (effectively). Some do it with O-rings as well (or additionally). Think of a crank seal on an engine. What happens when you put it in backwards?
Maximum amount of vacuum pressure possible at sea level is about 30 inches of Hg (or psi). Since you are operating at roughly 4500 ft above sea level (Utah), it is going to be less, about 29 psi. Given this, it isn't going to operate a ram at all at that pressure even with no load on it. And yes, cavitation of the hydraulic pump is an issue. There is a reason that they have to use double acting rams in most hydraulic systems that don't have a constant load to retract the ram.
Suction depends on a vacuum. In a vacuum you can only get 1 atmosphere of “pressure” (I.e. vacuum). With a pressure device there is essentially no limit as to how much effort (pressure) you can generate. One atmosphere is about 14.7 psi, which is all you can get with vacuum actuation.
@misadventurelab That scissor lift and the ram had lots of limitations, if your frame isn’t perfectly straight (not parked evenly) when you operate it, it can cause twisting and binding, (I have more than 50 home built dump trailers under my belt) long story short… a simple hinge on the left and right frame on the back hooking to the bed, than 1) 16” ram on each side to lift the bed would make the bed lift and lower evenly regardless the angle of the truck or parking position, cal-ranch has everything you need, aside from the pump itself, you should only be into parts $300 in grand total!
The reason the vacuum doesn't work is because you can push with as much psi as you want, but you can only suck 14.5 psi at the most since that's atmospheric pressure
You need to find yourself an old RV with a hydraulic slide out system they’re made for high-pressure in and high-pressure out. I know this well because I actually have an RV with a huge slide out and I’ve had to replace the cylinder and the pump.
Shadetreemetalworks is right: You can only suck about 15 PSI. Much too weak to do any good, plus your seals only work in one direction. So what you need, is one cylinder going in one direction, and another going the other way. Or get a bidirectional hydraulic cylinder, with inlets on both ends.
Just to add info to what @shadetreemetalworks said and what is in the comments section of his post ( which isa spot on ) you also have the issue of the impellers driving the fluid. Not all impellers and pump housings can pump fluid the opposite direction efficiently.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m so glad to see you again Trevor.
Me too
I am very happy to see you both, Trevor & Tucker. Hope Rudy does a good job.
"Hey I'm Trevor, and I'm Tucker, Thanks for watching Dumber Every Day" 😁
Good to see you guys and see you having fun.
You guys never cease to amaze me with your hilarious antics. That "protective" outfit that Trevor wore when "firing" the tennis ball really made me laugh out loud!
Look forward to seeing the mini offroad rollback finished!
If you put vacuum on one side of the cylinder, two things will happen. First, cavitation. There are two ways to boil a liquid: heat, and vacuum. Second, if you put one side of the piston under vacuum, the resulting force comes from the atmosphere PUSHING the piston, for a maximum pressure differential of about 14.5psi. Your hydraulic pump obviously delivers a lot more pressure, and doesn't try to boil the fluid while it works.
Also the seals only work one way. You need dual seals and a feed to the other side of the seal.
👊🏼
What he said. Plus hydraulic rams push both ways depending on which valve is actuated.
Thanks for saving me all the typing. You are spot on.
Use the vacuum to remove the air add a hole to hook up your compressor. Then open the valve on the compressor pushing air into the vacuum behind the ball .
It's awesome seeing both of you, honestly some of my favorite dudes from Matt's channel I don't miss on his channel because y'all are so much better doing your own thing.
2:15 - I'd throw something at em' from across the shop for that one. Freakin' amazing response, I actually laughed.
The Mini truck is coming along great! We can't wait to see you guys put it to work with the mini Jeeps.
Take Care!
Jon and my "Mini" me Eli
"Point Six...Ohhh" 😂
🤙🏼
You guys crack me up. I enjoy watching you guys. You need to make more videos.
You guys need supervision and I volunteer to participate... I mean supervise... your next misadventure.
Muhuhuhuhuh
Carry on men. ❤❤❤
The editing with the green cart was amazing.
Shop I used to work in built cylinders. If you put a fitting at each end, with a selector valve each side would be pressure and the opposite would drain. Just like a log splitter.
Like Amcus rams for Fire Rescue
Just found this channel. I’m glad that I did. It’s like running into old friends. Now I got to back to the beginning and what every video. Great Video
“You can’t make a sound in a vacuum!” And then there’s the staged creeper and bit set for kicking and stepping on! Trevor is hilarious! Tucker is an excellent editor!
Tucker won’t admit it but I (Georges) will, I think he’s an awesome editor!!
You guys had me LAUGHING in my recliner this am watching you and your ball experiment efforts!!
Love you guys!
Excellent work guys. Your Nobel Prize is in the mail.
Nice to see you all working together again. Most entertaining crew to watch! 😂
You are going to do it! Keep up the great work!
Thank you for sharing!
With a tight seal around the projectile, you needed to pull a vacuum on the tube in front of it. This decreases the air pressure that acts as a spring, stopping the ball before it leaves the barrel. The best results will be if you use the dump-tank to rupture the foil seal after the tube in front of the ball has been vacuumed. I can't wait to see further testing and dummy damage.
Keep up the good work. Love your channel.
I’m just glad I don’t have to pick up all that glass!! 😱 You guys are hilarious! Oh dear! Trevor is going to need a back adjustment after that trip! 😳 Hope you weren’t “tweeked”! Can’t wait to see the finished little truck!
A genuine real laugh when the ship fell off the wall after Trevor's expert installation. Discount mythbusters with the three ex morrscuteers is hilarious. More Rudi please, he does go well with Trevor and Tucker. BTW watch out for the garage creeper, Trev. Gday from Australia. :)
3,2,1.. you sunk my battleship 😂 gold
Years ago i worked in a frozen chip factory.. endless ammo... Needless to say the old shop compressor and reservoir made a great spud gun on wheels..😁
Well well well nice to see the boys back at it again !
Great antics guys, keen them coming :-) Jon UK
Trevor, you crack me up. Love the videos, keep 'em coming 👍
Well that was very interesting 🧐. Thanks 👍 for sharing.
I think that vacuum on the single-acting cylinder resulted in the seal leaking. It's designed to hold fluid in, not keep air out. Once a little air gets in, the hydraulic pump can't function properly. But I know that you guys, along with Rudy and Zach, will work these issues out. "Misadventure Labs, overcoming physics one molecule at a time". 😊
I recommend y'all use a winch, cable and pulleys to move the bed back and forwards. Use a standard electric winch as a capstan and have springs provide tension on the cable. Mount a buffer battery and a 2nd winch on the tilting bed to pull vehicles up the ramp.
That is what I was going to write, as well. Simple and effective, shouldn't need more than 1500lbs of winch to work.
We need these guys on TV. A TV series would be amazing
The rams on our loaders have a fitting at top and bottom top is to pump fluid in to retract and bottom to push fluid to extend
Progress! If you guys order enough parts it’s bound to work! It’s in good hands with Rudy.
We use to make potatoe cannons and use acetylene to fire it when I worked at a scap yard about 30 years ago. We were getting enough power to drive the firewall of a car back about a foot.
I love this channel
That hurt my back watching Trevor trip over the creeper while carrying the heavy bed.
That hurt everything, from my shoulders down. I'm oldish.
I see a Misadventure Labs video, i click 👍
Me too 👍
Best watch on RUclips!!!
Misadventures Lab is an excellent name for this channel..
You guys aren't old enough to remember this; back in the early 70's, we used to take 5 or 6 beer cans, cut each end out, then duct taped them together, we drilled a hole in the last can that had an end to it, We inserted a tennis ball, squirted lighter fluid into the hole in the bottom end, then we lit a lighter to the bottom hole, and then BOOM!!! The tennis ball shot out. It would go about 100 yards in the air. Several years later, the potato launcher was invented - that was fun too.
BTW, we did live through all of this silliness.
You guys are too funny.
Trevor, watch out for that green creeper!
Duck Dynasty of the Desert!
Some things never change, Trevor still trips over😅
Not enough volume of vacuum (if that makes sense) for the inrush of air to fire the ball out of the vacuum gun. Compressed air from the bead seater is the way to go!
Man I’m early! Another fun video guys! Keep up the good work
Need one if those new 4cl LS motors in that rollback. 300 hp and maybe 35s😁
Ya done it! 👍😎✊
Single versus double acting cylinders in hydraulics. Single acting cylinders need an additional force to compress, be it gravity or a return spring or something. Double-acting cylinders pump into the other end, pushing the rod back to it's starting position. The reason vacuum isn't involved could be attributed to diameter reduction from the vacuum (not likely), directional seals (unlikely), or the hydraulic fluid vaporizing (very likely). Pneumatics don't have this problem because there is no fluid to vaporize.
Chances are if you hooked up Rudy's original design, the weight of the tilt tray itself would have helped the thing work a bit better, but if you were trying to cantilever a load up off the ground you would have run into one of the issues above.
You were using one hydraulic line on one end and you need a line on each end with a control box to divert the fluid to either end.
The picture falling off the wall was the best!
Take some PVC pipe and place a valve stem in the wall. Glue up a chamber with a ball valve at one end and a cap at the other. On the other ball valve side install your barrel. Fill the air chamber with 5 pounds of air, place your projectile in the barrel and open the valve. There are many ways of doing this. It looks like you may have the other end plugged, or your losing all of your pressure out the back instead of in the barrel. Yeah, compressor tank will work.
Good stuff! Can we have a mini truck meet up when this is all done?
Yes we can
I like seeing all of those 6s Kratons.
10:33 that tire blaster right there is what we use on our potato gun but you have to be careful because an Idaho potato shot through a piece of 2 inch schedule 80 pvc will cause serious damage to things
It will work just like the hydraulic lift you have in your shop. 😊
You sank my battleship!!!!!!
Cavitation maybe(depending on viscosity of that oil, im not sure you could cavitate it enough to matter), but how about check valve, or flow limiter valves? Any ram I've worked around wont let fluid flow back very fast as a safety feature, even if its "released" to return as designed.
My favorite channel ❤
Your vacuum problem is very simple, the air pressure at sea level is just under 15psi and you are at a decent altitude so your pressure is probably closer to 14psi. That is the maximum you can get under perfect conditions. A double acting cylinder is your only possibility. Keep in mind that any double acting cylinder will have less force available when retracting as you must subtract the area under the rod itself. Have fun, love your work(?).
Damn I miss something I was wondering where you've been I guess I got some video to listen to catch up
i belive the hydraulic seals are directional and need the oil to work properly, so if you put the cylinder under vacum they will collapse and let air into the system, so it wont pull anything
Watching the first few minutes, I was thinking “I wonder what Supply Center has in stock right now?”
Lo and behold… Supply Center had some DC linear actuators a couple years back (12v or 24v or…?) from some sort of solar panel apparatus that had a working rating of 6000+ lbs. which probably would’ve also worked for your application.
I was going to make a lift table that could double as a forklift, but I missed out on them.
The piston in a push/pull cylinder is different. They have double lip seals in opposing directions and a pressure line on both ends. The seals require pressure on the “inside” (pressure side) of the volume to seal. When you pull the “vacuum” you are actually pulling fluid past the seals and that gave you the goofy bounce trying to get it to close.
11:20 Like Top Gear! Mess around for a bit trying a few things, then blow it up!
tap into the other end put a 2 way valve in and push from the other end, lots of rams like that just look at the one on your jeeps steering
"Tell us why that doesn't work"
My background: Since 1986 designing and programming automated machines that test hydraulic components, including gear pumps like the one in your hydraulic power pack. There are a lot of complexities in hydraulics, but at the root, this one is simple: That pump can push at maybe 3000 PSI or more, but it just can barely suck. That gear pump would like to see a positive pressure at its inlet (ie oil level higher than the pump inlet), but it might be able to suck at a few PSI, but only single or very low double-digits of negative PSI. And it won't like it. That's just how gear pumps (and most pumps) work.
You need either a double-acting cylinder or two single acting cylinders working in opposite directions. Either way your valving will get a little more complicated, but nothing too crazy.
Thanks!
I’d just like to say: I am waiting with bated breath for a hair update video. I just scheduled my appointment yesterday for Estenove. July 9th boys!!!!!
You killed him!!!!
Thank God Tucker wasn't behind picture lol
On a scale of Mythbusters to Red Green I would have to give the tennis ball cannon more of a Red Green vibe but Rudy seems to have redeemed with the final construction.
If I recall the o rings if you want to call them that. They are beveled to take pressure the when gravity can work to let the piston close if I rember its been a minute.
I've really missed Trevor's and Rudy's silliness.
I just picked up a couple of rams from J & L in St. George. They would know all you need to know.
I’ve been waiting for this 🎉
0:30 Was the next half-minute a planned skit or just organic humor? Ya killing me!
The seals only work one way. When you push fluid in on one side, the seal "pushes out" and effectively blocks the oil, pushing the cylinder. When you suck on it, it pulls the seal and allows air to come in the other way.
Double-acting cylinders have seals facing both directions (effectively). Some do it with O-rings as well (or additionally).
Think of a crank seal on an engine. What happens when you put it in backwards?
The momentary look of panic in Rudy's eyes when Trevor says that Rudy promised to have the entire truck ready by Friday.
Trevor you forgot your groin Tupperware
1:03 forbidden cherry cough syrup
Shouldn't you drill a hole in the other end of the ram and attach a fitting to put pressure on the backside?
It’s because the piston seal is a one way seal look at the lip in it it hold pressure only when oil is pushing against the lip
I think you need 2 lines on the end of the ram. So fluid has somewhere to go other than the tube. Kinda like a reservoir.
Ohhh no, did a research on that ship and it’s very important! That picture was worth 50 000$ lol 😂
Here for Trevor and his rapidly graying beard.
Old Rudy Red Nuts
Go look at a bulldozer hydraulic system. Hoses go into both ends of the ram and the hydraulic pump pushes from either direction.
There are 2 way cylinders with 2 way valves. Thats what you need. I build hydraulic systems. Call your closest NAPA.
Hey, you guys aren’t currently playing around with a weather balloon are you?
😆 the amount of times we’ve been asked that this week
Misadventures, can you boil water at room temperature with your vacuum pump?
Good idea, we should show that
I just can't understand, I love Rudy fixing, building, modifying,,, but building a mini rollback? Better make a bigger one Trevorrrrrrrr.
Look for the old Mythbusters episode about table tennis ball canons. They made one that was pretty powerful.
Maximum amount of vacuum pressure possible at sea level is about 30 inches of Hg (or psi). Since you are operating at roughly 4500 ft above sea level (Utah), it is going to be less, about 29 psi. Given this, it isn't going to operate a ram at all at that pressure even with no load on it. And yes, cavitation of the hydraulic pump is an issue. There is a reason that they have to use double acting rams in most hydraulic systems that don't have a constant load to retract the ram.
Your lab is appropriately named!😂😂
Suction depends on a vacuum. In a vacuum you can only get 1 atmosphere of “pressure” (I.e. vacuum). With a pressure device there is essentially no limit as to how much effort (pressure) you can generate. One atmosphere is about 14.7 psi, which is all you can get with vacuum actuation.
It’s because you don’t have a Ram with double ended packing and a 2 stage pump
@misadventurelab
That scissor lift and the ram had lots of limitations, if your frame isn’t perfectly straight (not parked evenly) when you operate it, it can cause twisting and binding, (I have more than 50 home built dump trailers under my belt) long story short… a simple hinge on the left and right frame on the back hooking to the bed, than 1) 16” ram on each side to lift the bed would make the bed lift and lower evenly regardless the angle of the truck or parking position, cal-ranch has everything you need, aside from the pump itself, you should only be into parts $300 in grand total!
11:38 the ball hit him so hard he FARTED 🍑💨
the tube looks to be bowing a little bit which would be just enough friction to stop that projectile.
Are there a direction flow valve used for this .
Tucker didn't even need the channel locks, he just didn't want to show you guys up that bad. 😂
Well what makes that cylinder compress in it's original application? ?
The reason the vacuum doesn't work is because you can push with as much psi as you want, but you can only suck 14.5 psi at the most since that's atmospheric pressure
You need to find yourself an old RV with a hydraulic slide out system they’re made for high-pressure in and high-pressure out. I know this well because I actually have an RV with a huge slide out and I’ve had to replace the cylinder and the pump.
Shadetreemetalworks is right: You can only suck about 15 PSI. Much too weak to do any good, plus your seals only work in one direction. So what you need, is one cylinder going in one direction, and another going the other way. Or get a bidirectional hydraulic cylinder, with inlets on both ends.
Just make a valve body with one pump and use that to change the direction of the flow to push or pull
I've got a Pittie who would happily peel that tennis ball for ya! He's done it with every tennis ball I've ever given him, so he's kinda an expert 😂.
Just to add info to what @shadetreemetalworks said and what is in the comments section of his post ( which isa spot on ) you also have the issue of the impellers driving the fluid. Not all impellers and pump housings can pump fluid the opposite direction efficiently.