I have zero interest in a small cc off/on road bikes. However this guy is THE best bike reviewer on Utube (or anywhere else). No frills HONEST and KNOWLEDGEABLE - un like others, he doesn’t have to borrow bikes from dealers to review so he’s not worried about upsetting anyone. If I was anywhere near Devon, I’d be beating a pathway to Dorothy’s speed shop and trying out the bikes on offer. He’s a motorcycling gem…….thank you Nathan👌
@@christopherpekel6096 spot on - I am sick of hearing `small` describing these 400`s. Pushy marketing has driven new riders to believe a 650 is a bike to tide you over till you become a real man and get a 1200
@@christopherpekel6096 It's all relative isn't it. Yes, in India these will be big bikes. But in the context of the UK they are small bikes and I'm not of significance enough to start labelling them medium sized bikes, or plus size one bikes or anything. The UK market knows them as small bikes.
THE cheapest performance upgrade you can buy for your bike, is rider training. The key thing is, you can transfer this improvement when you buy a different bike!
losing weight is also free and a massive performance upgrade. people keen to complain about a bike's wet weight when they're carrying an extra 20kg themselves lmao
@@pitchwife7573 I've been hearing this over and over. The question is, do you have 20 kg overweight or do you think the bike feels heavy? If you think the bike feels heavy, gain weight. Preferably muscle, but if you are physically active at all any weight gain comes with added muscle power because the body is adapted to the weight and then the bikes weight is less in relation to your body weight. Unless you are only dragracing the bike of course, then you can loose weight.
Seeing your initial videos on the 450 MT and 450 Himalayan I went to a dealer and rode them back to back. Himi all day long, as the sitting and standing position was more to my liking, better front brake, and much nicer road handling, and no snatchy throttle. Like you said here: Get on the bike, and you will find out quickly what suits you. And spending money in training your skills is more effective than buying the more "capable" bike.
The Light and Lower description of the BMW G 310GS is spot on. I'm 5'5" and over 60 years old so this bike suits me fine. It's the perfect daily commuter and a great weekend trail bike. It's as close to a 50/50 bike you can get. Thanks for the honest and descriptive reviews Nathan, you have a new subscriber...
Totally agree. Moving from decades of riding big road bikes but with my teenage years spent riding dirt on trail bikes, I opted for the KTM 390 Adventure when I decided to get an adventure bike last year. No regrets. The lighter weight has allowed me to save myself from a fall any number of times - its small enough to be wrangled! Its still a pig in heavy going on the dirt compared to dedicated dirt bikes - the extra 60kg and 19"vs 21" front wheel is the compromise you make when going adventure but I keep up with my dirt bike mates when I hit the bush on a Sunday without too much trouble, unless the going gets tight and heavy. On the highway the KTM is great -fitted with cruise control and a sheepskin layer on the seat its super cruisy for long distances - I've done 800km in a day, half tarmac, half dirt. Thanks for this sensible post - there's too much crazy hype about big ADV bikes out there. Smaller is definitely the way to go if you actually want to ride dirt roads and stay upright.
Thanks for the great comparison between bikes! Mentioning the KLE500 reminded me of the fickle nature of motorcycle fashion and past attempts at producing the unicorn. The first generation Honda Transalp of 1987 has almost identical specs to the 450 MT in terms of weight, power and suspension travel. Nobody in the UK or USA wanted it back then. Would they want it now? The human condition seems to be the desire to have something that isn't available. Everybody now wants a Kawasaki Versys 400 with 21" front wheel or similar bike from Honda. Good on CF Moto for getting their timing right!
I’ve had my BMW GS310 for 3 years now and done 15,000kms on a mixture of tar and dirt roads. It’s been a great little bike, and I enjoy riding it very much. However as Nathan said a bit more power would be good and I think better brakes and suspension would make it a really good all-round small adventure bike. I will be taking a test ride in the CF Moto 450 very soon.
On the 3rd year with my GS as well. The new bikes in the category are really tempting. The weight increase could he beneficial on the motorway, but not sure how it would affect everything else. Also, still 2 years of warranty on the BMW, and no issues so far.
Try a full Akra system on the 310. I did on mine, and it totally unlocks the character of the engine and transforms the bike. I know that's a cliche, but I feel this bike benefits more from a full system than any other I've ever riden.
Fantastic insight from a man with no bias who owns all his bikes. Furthermore, has a business to help allow others to make up their own opinion. Especially referencing you prefer the 450MT but the guy testing for himself preferred the Himi. Like Nathan I also prefer small capacity adventure bikes. My 2 canvas’ are a 10 year old crf250l and a newer versys x300. Both have been transformed into exactly what I want out of a small adventure bike. Both the 450MT and Himi have my attention, but I will be holding off for 3 reasons. 1. I really like my current 2 bikes. 2. I try not to buy first year bikes. 3. I try to stick with Japanese made bikes. My Crf250l has had suspension upgrade, screen, fuelling programmer, full exhaust system, concept seat, the capacity to carry double the amount of fuel that was intended, D606 tyres, screen, bark busters, skid plate and many more items to perfect going on multiple day tour off road. Reliability and buy in is important to me. Personally, as mentioned, I try to purchase Japanese and when the price is too high compared to another brand I simply buy second hand. We know the build quality of bikes made in Japan, there’s no guessing. Each to their own. The versys x300 I believe you don’t get in the UK? I use this bike as my adventure (90% on road) bike. It has all the comfort mods making it a delight to take anywhere. The secret I found after decades of riding is light weight, small engine engagement, chassis for fun going through bends. But for adventure riding it’s the costs associated. Smaller adventure bikes are cheaper in every way and there are the bike you will be putting the miles on. They are the bike you will drop etc. meaning if you lack in ego like myself, especially after owning many ADV bikes, then I don’t see a better option. It feels to me more for filling touring a small bike, even though I’m the only one who has a small ADV in my friend group. I have owned the Crf rally, Wr250R and X and KTM 390 Adventure. Along with 650’s and 1000’s and this is where I ended up. I definitely subscribe to all sports bike should have more poke as they generally don’t do many K’s and are used for that speed addiction. I own 4 bikes the other 2 are a Suzuki GSX-8S and Kawasaki Ninja 1000sx. I like variety genres which does make me appreciate jumping from bike to bike. Having the right style for what I’m intending to do. The ninja is not for sport touring, purely a comfortable sport bike. The GSX-8S is for sitting in the wind and tight quick switch back curves. Both with fantastic acceleration. Purely for 30 to an hour and a half fun. I’ll stop my rambling, thank you for the fantastic video.
Writing this so prospective buyers consider another seriously under rated option... Cheap, bulletproof, lighter than half of these with a low seat height that will be fun to use also as a daily. Having put over 35,000ks on a couple of Versys-X 300s, it is the best missing option from this review. Yes it definitely does want the YSS suspension upgrade if you are 85kg plus for a better all round experience both on and off the road but it's lighter than most, has great range and is extremely capable of being mistreated and surviving whatever you want to throw at it. The most two stroke of four strokes for the power delivery and doesn't mind being run all day at 9000 rpm. Definitely a more road oriented bike than the 450MT and I should have sold mine by now... But it's still so much fun to just jump on and flog. If I were choosing a ride around Australia bike the 450MT would win for me but there would be numerous times, especially when wanting something lighter that I would be wishing for the Versys-X. I do agree with you that the Honda is a bulletproof option but Honda has let us all down with the lack of development and evolution of the 250 to 300 with the CRF. This market is about to come alive with more options in the next few years now someone has made a serious step towards the 'unicorn'. Great review/comparison!
Hi Edward. Thanks for the comment. I do now own a Versys 300X and yes, great bike. Very different to the others here. I wouldn't say it was in the same ball park for all around adventure use (trail / road) as the CF Moto and Himalayan but for more road based riding it's great to ride. The one I bought has 42000 miles on it and is still going strong!
Thank you, Nathan. This was very helpful. I am after my FIRST ever bike. The goal is trails and some cool BDR routes with a friend, and hopefully a trip south of our border, but I know the main use, simply due to the routines of life, will be surface roads here in town. That said, after watching your SUPER unbiased reviews today, and some other well done vids, the CF Moto really does beg to be tested and hopefully purchased. Thanks again for the great video.
'More talent, rather than more speed'. I concur! I often ask myself if I am the limiter, or the bike. I know the answer, and that's why I'm more than happy with capabilities of my 411.
Just seen the concept 450gs and the new ktm 390 adventure. Look cracking machines but probablly with mega price. you make so much sense of it all nathan
I still think that for most average riders, the original Himalayan is more than enough. No silly car type "tech", cheap as chips, easy to service on the road, tough as bootz. The bike for the riders with zero ego and more sense than ££s.👌
Estoy muy de acuerdo. A la mayoría le sobra moto y coches . He visto mujeres y hombres que compran autos de 50000 USD con más de 300 hp y torques impresionantes solo para llevar sus hijos a la escuela e ir a hacer las compras del súper . No sabe ni que manejan ni utilizan las capacidades de su auto , son desperdicios, pero tienen mucho que ver con algo psicológico, carencias personales , ignorancia, usar los objetos como una proyección de las características que les venden en las tiendas como algo impresionante e imprescindible cuando lo cierto que es que con muchos menos te alcanza y sobra . Es la instalación de la insatisfacción en la mente del consumidor. Espero haber sido claro como lo escribí. Saludos
Good vid. I've been saying for ages that the big manufacturers ar missing a complete sector of the market CFmoto & RE identified exactly what is needed
I'm facing the choice of one of the presented motorcycles and your film, among dozens of other films on RUclips brought me closer to making a decision. Great job:)
Excellent - insightful, honest and loved the straight-talking about the bikes! Still love my 2018 Honda 250 Rally, but you're so right about Honda being conservative as the 300 Rally is not much of a step forward and we're 6 years on!
Nathan, you and Stu Fillingham are the current sound of reason regarding the current motorcycle world. Your balanced views always tempered with reason, intelligence and the proviso that it is ‘just your opinion’ instil respect from your followers here and abroad. Your logic in this particular summary will only see your following increase for motorcyclists wanting balanced, unbiased reviews of real world bikes in the ADV market. If I was closer I’d head down your way to try some of your bikes, though I’ve ordered a 450MT after sitting on one - that’s how impressed I was with how it felt without even getting a chance to ride it. Convinced this segment is going to be huge in the future and will see a sea change in how and what people ride.
Brilliant video thank you so much even convinced my wife she don’t need to replace her cb500x for a tiger 900. On my cb500x I commute to work and we done 3 week tours and both these bikes have been fantastic I do prefer a bike which if I have to will cope with unsealed roads and give me confidence.out all these bikes I really feel the cf moto 450mt would be a good improvement on my current Honda as the nx500 just doesn’t hit the mark in my opinion over what cf moto are offering
Ace video as always :) Being an NX500 owner think I can chime in with a long reply comparing what we’ve bought from a very different perspective, having tried green laning as an experienced track and roads rider but green laning novice, an the ownership experience of a few of the other bikes. utterly loving the NX500 an I’ve owned everything from ex iom tt bikes to 1920s Nortons and GSA’s which have all been ridden, I think when choosing a bike you have to be objective about your own needs and choose what’s right for you, an if green laning isn’t your idea of adventure you might find this comment a bit interesting, its a different set of bikes that start to really be the thinking choice while everyone else is chasing down the endurofication of adventure / green lane route personally we’ve gone in a different direction having just bought a Honda Nx500 and about to buy a 2nd one. Always enjoy your vids Nathan as it’s interesting to see a completely different perspective on them coming from an alternative view of what Adventure is. On the smaller stuff owned 2x Ktm 390s Rejected at 147 and 269 miles riddled with issues, Ktm were the worst company to deal with regarding problems washed there hands an left is to fight it out with the dealer, something to bear in mind, Two bikes had drastically different levels of vibration between them. Handled well though. Problems with none sealing rims, condensation damaging the displays, corrosion when the bikes arrived new requiring replacement parts, side panel found to have a missing lug, Displays were a major issue in winter. Ktm have now put in there warranty book that they don’t cover the displays, we actually looked at the larger Ktms but they have the cam issue. Anything can go wrong with bikes or anything that’s made, the problem is how the companies deal with it anyone who’s used to BMW level of service when things go wrong won’t enjoy the Ktm experience. It was a real shame as it was just so darn enjoyable to ride lotta fizz to it on the road thirsty though. Himalayan 411 - 500 miles found ourselves in the same boat full of issues, twisted forks, seized swing arm, still wasn’t convinced on the chassis after the first service, I know a friend of mine also had issues with an out of line/twisted chassis from new, then failed brake light switch x2, missing clips on breather lines, an a few other issues, dealer agreed shouldn’t have happened and refunded with no issue. Biggest problem with the Enfield is they couldn’t get the parts to sort it at the time. A friend of mine has been after a part for his meteor for 12 months under warranty. Issues an parts availability are always my biggest concern when weighing up any brand on the yam I had stuff next day compared to the Enfield. Honda 300 rally sold to get my 1150gsa which I love. 300 rally was great road toured over wales for legal speeds not loaded up, personally found it better than the Himmy, seat was a torture device same as Enfield, with road riding as the compromise Honda would be my choice of the above if I was totally focused on green laning, with the rally raid stage 1 rear shock. Stock shock was rubbish, wind protection and mpg surprisingly good. Tenere 700 was great for me no good for dad. Although to compromised towards trail riding if you weren’t doing it. (We had got it for a trail riding trip that’s now out of the window) I found it very manageable to move about even on the trails. A few mates of mine that have the ability can really make use of those. If I was to choose between those for trail riding I’d take the 300 rally as you can never have a light enough bike for that, throw road work on though and it’s quite evenly matched, especially when riding to the TRF code of conduct I never dropped any of them on the lanes so can’t comment on pickup ability an our lanes up here are a lot different to your muddy ones. Which leads me onto the ‘unimaginative’ nx500 or the thinking persons choice 😉 if trail riding isn’t your bag, just stuck 1000 miles on it and bearing in mind we have had ex iom tt race bikes it’s still heaps of fun. The engine is fun and engaging, beautiful gear box, seat height sensible the clutch is featherlight amazingly so, engines grunty low down for a 500 surprisingly nice exhaust note, an revs it loves revs, which makes for an engaging ride, suspension is easily a match for the Ktm on the front end feel wise. As with all a back shock would transform it. Biggest thing is its road holding after riding lots of 21” wheels it’s like it’s glued to the ground an on rails. Where it has the legs on the other options for me is the travel aspect smooth, composed, great wind protection sure footed and feels like a complete package. Superb seat height to an amazing mpg and sharp brakes. It has a level of refinement to it of a bike with development behind it and it’s a proven rtw choice in the previous cb500x guise. Very light of the stand like pushing a push bike around compared to the GSA so utterly perfect for dad. Easier than a T7 to. A brilliant choice For those of us that where green laning isn’t our idea of adventure I completely get where it wouldn’t fit what you want hence your comments. Much more manageable than a vstrom 650xt we had that I loved an did a few 600 mile days on As what I see as strengths for our sort of riding is the other side of the coin to what you green lane peeps are looking for :) Another aspect is insurance I found the NX500 to be a fraction of the cost for me than the 300 rally and the Ktm 390 with the Honda hiss system, when I was deciding what to replace the T7 with for dad. I think from a managability point of view dads done quite a bit of miles on the Honda Nx500 a few 3 hour rides an that’s after him having major surgery for his stage 3b/4 prostate cancer an he’s been having a few rides through his current radio therapy an in love with it. His last bikes were a GSXR 750 K9, RD350LC an a Ktm 390 adv. Bikes like the Honda Nx 500 an the GS’ still make a tremendous lot of sense as they just don’t fatigue you in the way a single does. Another aspect is I’ve never had an issue with over 20 Japanese bikes I’ve had (used to do massive miles so would change every year) I actually decided against selling the 1150gsa when I thought about it an just how much sense it still makes for me and my riding, also managed to insure it for 40 quid for a year on my classic insurance! Can’t beat that. In 3 years the insurance difference from when it was on the modern insurance is gonna pay back all the expenditure in parts I spent bringing her up to scratch. Thought provoking video as always Nathan. Anyways off to plan the next trip on the 1150 gsa to Starbucks 😋 I also had a 1200gs te Rallye a found that just as manageable on the travel stuff as some of the smaller stuff when you take the green laning out of the equation.
@@baldomeroh the Nx has really impressed from the suspension engine and as something as simple as the tft not filling with condensation because of the design of it an how easy it is to read :) well worth a test ride ultimately buy whatever pulls your heart Nx, cb the bikes Nathan superbly reviewed or something else. After my dad and I have finished our move to Devon I’ll be buying a 2nd nx500 so we have one each :) to compliment my 1150gsa I’ve not had a cb500x so can’t comment on that only from the perspective of the Nx500 but it feels a really nice well thought out package for the reasons I described above, the problems we had with the 411 put me off buying the 450 along with the mentions of top heaviness which the nx500 doesn’t have at all. Everyone’s take is always different which is why I think Nathan’s days are such a good idea. Very very impressed with it and I’ve learnt I prefer twin cylinder bikes every time parallel vtwin or boxer for my style of adventure riding. Although I do ride a 1927 Norton 16h flat tanker 500cc single but that’s another story :) Hope this helps :)
@@user-hv3xv4xs6j I’m severely dyslexic takes a long time to type stuff out 👍 it is what it is :) if someone finds it useful great if not lots of other comments :)
@adaptableadventurerider Love your thinking born out of miles and years of experience. I keep hearing stories about bad KTM support/reliability: some people have trouble-free miles, others garage-only decorative queens waiting for parts and endless troubleshooting. Betting on risk/probabilities KTM is not worth it for me. Your praise for the R1150 I note, maybe I will look into a low-miles R1200 sometime. Most of all, your praise of NX500 caught my attention--maybe that will become my daily ride. Sorry about your dyslexia. Your willingness to struggle through to write such a lengthy comment says good things about your character. !!!
This is one of the best comparison reviews I've heard. Total common sense with no BS. Really enjoyed it & the points made about bike sizes & types is so correct for a less well informed rider to think about. As a youngster I rode bikes off road for a good 5 years before getting on the roads. That was 5 years of riding training in all conditions. It stood me in good stead for road riding. A skilled rider soon knows what type/size of bike is right for the type of riding theyre buying a bike for. I know most want a one fits all bike. Costs alone dictate that decision. In my case I wouldn't dream of wanting the same bike, I'd be riding mostly off road to a one I'd be mainly be using on the road. They're 2 completely different animals for me.
Thanks Davy. Totally agree, if you've done some training and you know your abilities and what you intend to do then choosing the right bike is fairly straight forward
Nathan, as always, you nailed it! I drove with my Voge Rally to a local CF Moto dealer to test the 450 MT. Fortunately, here in germany there was still one to test ride. I liked it, engine wise feels on par with my old vstrom 650, similar performance but could be the weight difference, and it's been a while since I drove the 650. Otherwise, it is a shockingly low bike. Way to low for me (189cm/6.2"), the seat must be a lot higher and the pegs a little lower. In stock, not very comfortable for a taller person, compared to the Voge. Dealer told me there is an optional high seat that is more a bench seat. But he don't think he gets one not until next year. The same goes for high fender, all the parts and bikes in general. Sounded very frustrated. I think it will be an upgrade from the Rally in a couple of years when CF Moto figured their delivery problems out.
What a smart, entertaining review! I like the way you wheel every unit into the frame. Damn the Triumph is pretty, but like many….the CF Moto has the big allure. Not sure I’m ready for 4 bikes though ha! 😅
Fantastic video, such clear, sensible and unbiased opinions about the pros and cons of these bikes from someone who actually knows the bikes well. Thank you Nathan.
Best/most thorough comparison of mid weight bikes, which are my class. I am so done with the big heavy adventure bikes. Thank you for such a great video.
You have to be the best bike reviewer I've seen. Possibly best reviewer of anything unless you count Have I Got News For You as a review service but that's not a shameful second place, if so... About your Triumph 400X: Is your luggage rack easily interchangeable with the seat? I know you don't necessarily consider it powerful enough for a pillion but my pillions (aka partner and children) are all rather light and precious so I neither need nor want much power as that only invites greater risk taking. When I ride alone I effectively lose up to 40% of the load thereby naturally improving handling and power to weight ratio for increased fun with no one else paying for my stupidity. How much more play could I get on the forks from the people who supplied/fitted yours?
Really enjoyed the video some very interesting points to consider im quite excited to see finally more manufacturers competing at this level but feel there needs to be more to come hopefully 👍👍👍
Great review for those of us who aren't expert riders wanting to rip down the hardest of trails. I've looked at most of these bikes, as I would like to move on to a small ADV bike mainly for street riding, but one that I would be comfortable taking down a modest forest road or county dirt road. Most of these feel too big, too heavy, or just too old school. The CF Moto does seem to offer me the best combination of characteristics that I want, so I have a deposit down for when they arrive in the U.S. As you note, when you sit on a bike or put a few miles on a bike you'll know real quick whether it works for you or not, so I'll see when one comes in here. However, whether or not the CF Moto is for any given rider or not, I really appreciate the features and value for the money that they are offering - I hope (and believe) they will be pushing the other heritage manufacturers to do more.
Great job on the comparison! It's really detailed and professional. I've been on a lot of the bikes you reviewed, and I ended up keeping the CRF 300 Rally with some aftermarket upgrades. CF Moto has definitely stepped up their game. I can't wait for EICMA 24 to see how the Japanese brands respond to CF Moto's success. Thanks again! Gianluca from Italy."
Ive had my 450 mt for a couple of weeks now still running it in and other than the snatchy throttle it's pretty much hard to beat , it's now fitted with a 15 tooth front sprocket and it now it will cruise happily on the motorway , cracking bike
The 450 MT is a very good-looking bike for its type. I prefer singles in the under 500cc category., though. The Moto Morini doesn't half look good. Heavy, though. The KTM's engine begs you to go faster. I like the Triumph's low-down grunt. Low gearing? Shame the BMW isn't 100cc bigger. Shame the CCM didn't take off. 19:58 Wow! That Kove is stunning. Too revvy, by the sound of it. The 300 Rally is way too expensive. I remember the KLE500. I don't like the sound of the Himalayan 450. What a good video. Nick
I had a 390 Adventure for about a year but in the end those big single vibrations just wore me down on longer road rides. Sold it and kept the bike it was going to replace, which is the good old Versys X-300! The CF Moto does look interesting but seems a bit on the big side to me at 5'7"
I have an unhealthy attraction to bikes that can do a bit of both road and (gentle) off-road. I have been at a dealer and just sat on 411 Scram, 411 Himalayan and 450 Himalayan. The 450 felt so much different. I felt best on the Scram (I am yet to drive one) - and really like the looks and the sound. But as you said towards the end of the video - one should really think well what kind of driving they are going to be doing. And I must be honest with myself - there is very little of off-roading possible where I live (south-ish Germany). So I need to use the coming months to think long and hard about it, then take some re-fresh classes and go for test rides and see what 'works'.
I love the 450MT. Took it for a testride last week and it impressed me for the money. The Xcape is real fun bike as well. Been close to buying one. I need a bike that can cruise on the autobahn for hours on end. So a Vstrom, 800MT or Tiger 850 might be my best options.
Awesome take on this segment. Viewer from the southern tip of the Philippines here, and I for one have always had a thing for smaller displacement "big-bikes." Luckily due to financial and time constraints, I haven't subscribed to the adage that bigger/more expensive is always better. This video of yours just sums that up really well. Cheers mate and ride safe.
Bummer, sounds like i'm 'over-biked' then with my ego & no talent! Lucky I also have a small bike too when I come to Devon otherwise I'll be stopped at the border😄. Good summary as usual Nathan and I do agree with your philosophy but sometimes your heart wins over your head & a bigger bike makes you feel good. To be completely honest the Desert X is the first bike i've ever owned where I look back in the garage and get emotional over the look of the thing & it is just awesome to ride on the road (& a bloody handful off road but I haven't dropped it........yet!)
Hi Nathan another great video you explained it all very well thank you. I am still waiting to get my CRF300 rally back from having the engine repaired under warranty been 3 months now. I bought a new Transalp 750 just as it went in to be fixed. I know you say it’s too big and heavy but it’s only 208kgs wet Claimed I haven’t weighed mine but to me it feels fairly light about the same as my Himalayan 411 was and seems to have a low centre of gravity. Which makes it not much heavier than the CF Moto 450MT. It has a low seat height and the suspension is good enough stock for me. I find it to be the easiest gravel road bike I have had. I would call it a great all road touring bike very comfortable plenty of power and great handling for long highway stints. A skilled rider could take it in your green lanes (not me). I have to decide what to do with my CRF300 when I get it back. I spent the money and got RallyRaid level 1 suspension front and rear. It is a good bike but I have lost faith in the reliability which is why I sold my Himalayan 411. The CF Moto wasn’t available in Australia when I bought my Transalp and are fairly expensive over here $9500. AUD. I thought I would just add my thoughts. I love my bike and haven’t ridden the CF Moto party because I don’t want to find out that it’s better than what I have already bought.
Ive ridden both recently on a testride. The transalp has heaps more power, but to me felt bigger and more top heavy vs the 450MT. The lack of tubeless rims is a buzz kill for me though. 90% of the time i want tubeless, and if I am going on a hardcore trip and need tubes, I can pop them in to the tubeless rims on the 450MT. Why honda refuses to offer tubeless is so silly
@@slakk5093 I think you are right but for me the CFMoto hadn’t been released here in Australia when I bought my Transalp. The tubeless rims aren’t an issue for me because I have never had an issue with having tubes in 45 years of riding in Australia. I have made a very conscious effort not to add lots of extra weight to the Transalp no engine bars or pannier racks etc. and keep as much weight as low as possible. I have added a sump guard and keep my tool bag between the sump guard and engine. The only other additions are barkbusters and a small plastic topbox just big enough to lock up my helmet. And obviously the Transalp is a bigger bike but the extra size and power for me probably makes the little extra weight worthwhile because where I am in Western Australia I do a lot of kms on country highways to get to the interesting places. For example I did a 3 day 2 night camping trip and did 1500kms. Also the only CFMoto dealers are in the city at the moment. Obviously I am trying to justify my purchase but I am very happy with it. I still have my CRF300 rally which I will probably sell soon.
I agree with the last part wholeheartedly. The right bike for you is the one that suits your needs, your riding style, your priorities, your budget. I have been living with a very lightly modified Versys x300 for 6 years, I can't complain about the bike off road, i could complain about my skills off road because I'm not that gutsy, neither i want to get that overconfident. What i need from a bike is better cruising speeds for the most part(my bike is already running with 15-45 sprockets, i can make it any longer than that), and a little more of off-road capabilities wouldn't hirt me at all, i would not feel comfortable with sacrificing off road performance just for getting a bigger bike, and the 450 MT checks those boxes really really well. I work with my bike, but i like to enjoy the ride as i get to the different places i have to go to, once i started using that twin cyl engine on and off road, i fell in love with the smoothness and the lack of vibrations, I can't go back to a single cyl, even if the KTM is a 390 Duke playing dress up, i don't like how it looks and how limited it might feel on harsh terrain, i used a Bajaj NS200 for work for about 2 years and i went to hell and back, but i was shitting my pants every time i had to tackle very technical terrain.
Great review. Very insightful and to the point. The keywords are what are you going to use it for as you said. One thing I would like to bring to the attention of people contemplating the 300 is its unexpected ability to work as a long range adv bike. It has to be the easiest adv bike out there to handle with full loads for extended very remote touring. Part of this is its amazing fuel efficiency. It will do the 530 Ks desert trail we have here called the Simpson with over 1000 sand dunes with 21 litres of fuel where my DR 650 which is also a great remote adv bike will need 36. It also is just so much easier to handle fully loaded and has more then enough power to do very steep trails and sand dunes loaded like this, which was a surprise to me. Agreed it is overpriced and basic but it just works in this role. The one I have now has autonomy of just over 1000 ks with my setup which we need here for some of the trails.
Great real world content as usual Nathan. I'm curious why you brought up the CCM which lets face it is a bit of a rare item when bikes like the DRZ400 are still widely available on the second hand market. Everybody seems to have forgotten about the DRZ. 145kg wet weight. Quality long travel suspension and loads of aftermarket add ons. Its a TET bike rather than an adventurer but falls in the same category as the CRF and Voge. What do you think?
Yeah I saw that in your vid. I've found mine ok. The back is pretty bitey, though the lever sits high so I find it hard to modulate. The front is ok. Definitely sharper than the 411, which isn't difficult!
Great vid again. Interesting comments about Honda's attitude which I'd also wondered about. Given every review I've seen by US and European reviewers has commented on the suspension being too soft for us larger humans, why haven't they just done a Euro/US version with a stiffer set up? It would be extremely simple to do at the factory and it wouldn't cost much. Throw in a bigger bore version to make 70mph cruising more realistic and the price wouldn't seem so unrealistic. The rise of Voge and CF Moto does make you wonder how long Honda have before they go the way of the old British bike industry.
Great and very complete video! I'm a senior rider and want to downgrade to an easy and light ADV bike, all of them showed in your video, thanks!. My sort list are the KTM390 and the CF MOTO . Theorically I'm more road oriented and as you said it can be better the KTM but I'v owned singles and twins and the smoothness and wide range of rpm of a twin moves me to the CF MOTO. Seat heigh is also in favour of the MT since I'm not very tall. Weight is in favor of the KTM but reviews said the difference with MT is not dramatical. Hope to test ride both and decide. All of this could have been avoided if KTM didnt quit their 490 twin project many of us where waiting for! I guess KTM will reconsider that in a while...
In my experience the KTM has an incredible and powerful motor and the chassis seems beaut albeit smallish. The ergonomics however are not ADV. Found that footpegs are forward mounted and you sit on top of the bike rather than in it- a feeling of being exposed. Longer rides for me produced fatigue.
I have owned both the 390 Adventure and currently own a CF Moto 450MT, in my opinion the 450MT is hands down a much better bike, one thing that doesn't really get mentioned, the small windscreen on the 390 ADV is awful, created buffeting on any helmet I wore, I went through the aftermarket screens before sorting it, the 450MT is the complete opposite, smooth, no buffeting and adjustable. The seat height on the 450 is very confidence inspiring and comfortable, the 390 is not a high seat but was wide yet less comfortable, everyone is different and has different ideas of what they want in a bike, I recently sold a Tenere World Raid as it was way behind my skill level, a brilliant bike in the hands of a not so brilliant rider, the 450MT is different in it helps develop confidence and is 80% of the T7 with less weight and half the price.
My wife had the 390 and found I was taking it out more than my GSA. However, we had many issues with the bike. Initially dealer support was good in sorting stuff. However, on the 6th (of 9) returns to the dealer we were told that the issue was down to the rider. The issue was that the bike kept cutting out on a trailing throttle….ended up getting rid of it and will never darken KTMs door again.
@@mac22011964 I bought my 390 from my local KTM dealer in Birmingham DMC Moto, they were an absolute joke, when it came to the first service I asked them to do the software update that gave the bike the off road mode, they had no idea and kept telling me the 390 did not have rider modes, I was there for 3 hours (after the service) before they came out and said "oh yeh we found it, it was under ABS, they and KTM UK were useless. I bought my 450MT from Redline in Loughborough another KTM dealer, they are fantastic, they truly care about their customers and reputation, I wouldn't take the bike anywhere else and they are an hour away from me. The only thing that irks me with the 450 are the 3000 mile service intervals, it should be more like 6000 miles. After a year, if there are no warranty issues I may well just get it serviced at Redline every 6000 miles and do the 3000 mile oil change myself.
Cheers Nathan, great video! The point that you make in the end is in my opinion the most important one. Deciding what kind of riding you are going to do, narrowes down your choice in bikes. But if you're a brand new rider, looking out for your very first bike that's easier said than done. Personally, I've always eyed those more off road capable bikes (like the Voge, CRF etc) as I've heard that learning on dirt improves ones skills onroad as well. Yet i can't help but think that if I buy a bike I will want to use it for commuting eventually and probably travelling too. So I usually end up trying to find a do-it-all kind of bike... (To be honest I'm trying to convince myself that I will be able to do everything on a Voge and enjoy it) All in all, I'd like your take on the subject of this very nice video you made from a perspective of a first time rider. Obviously if you can spare some time. (That goes for anyone willing to share some useful info here in the comment section) Many thanks and keep up the good work, I hope one day I'll find my way to Devon. Alex from Athens, Gr
Hi Alex. Good question. It's a tricky one to answer as it's like asking what food will I like before you even ever tasted any food. You've just got to get in there and try it. And see what you like. Whether you like the off road or not. Or distances or commuting. There's no right or wrong answer. just get the voge and see what it does that you like and what it does that you don't like. And then when you come time to swap it you'll have a much better grounding in which bike will suit you better. It's all a learning curve and you've just got to get on it.
We are very fortunate that the Suzuki DR 650 is still available in North America. Mod it to your style of riding and it will crush any of the bikes in this comparison.
Not so unfortunately. The DR is an amazing bike I have one modified for remote heavy going off road travel here in Australia nearly 100000 ks on it with no issues except for burning a very small amount of oil. Unbelievably still on the original clutch despite being loaded regularly with 55 litres of fuel 12 litres of water and food for 10 days in some of our toughest 4x4 tracks. I still have it and will never get rid of it. Too many good memories. The 300 rally that has replaced though is simply amazing. Very similar to the DR in many ways but so much easier to ride fully loaded when the trail gets tough. As a straight dual sport that you usually ride unloaded yep the there is no reason to change but as a long range remote Adv bike ridden fully loaded, it is far superior.
@@tonyrdr7207 I don’t even know what you’re trying to say. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? I the CRF300 is a fantastic bike which I agree with. The CF moto is not
@@IRLtrolls was talking about the comment that it would crush any of these bikes as you said including the 300rally. I love the DR but the 300 rally is far superior and easier to set up as an adv bike. Not sure about the CF as I have not risen it on tight trails,but I expect it to be closer to a KLR simply because of the weight.
Thanks for the great review! Spent 3 years thrashing a versys 300 on full dirt tires around greece, amazing fun amazing bike, but looking for something more dirt focused. Stuck between the cf and the himi, test drove both, liked the cf way more. Very hesitant because i have huge bias against Chinese manufacturing, primarily from Chinese vehicles in my home country being notoriously unreliable.
It would be great to see these bikes compared to bikes from 20 years ago, bikes like the DR650, F650Gs, XT660 etc, there doesn't seem to have been much evolution apart from less power/torque without a corresponding loss in weight.
Yes, to be honest that's exactly the direction I had in mind. I was looking at picking up a KLE500 to begin with. Then go through some of the back catalogue.
Brilliant video mate. I have an NX500 currently which I am really pleased with but it will cost a great deal in aftermarket parts to get it to the level of going off road like the 450MT. I have placed an order for the 450MT at the same place you got your from I think in Swindon. Bike treads was it and yes confirmed for around February / March time.
Yes that Rieju 500 is interesting as well - spoked wheels, big suspension - but too niche. The CF Moto is bordering on the mainstream so I think it'll squeeze the NX out quite a bit. Honda needs to up the ante a bit. But then where's Zuzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha et al!
Agreed. The Japanese bikes manufacturers have been caught napping here. Watching your videos since I downsized from a 1200 a few months ago has made me interested in a bit of off road. The CB500X / NX500 has been a revelation quite honestly as the bike is so well sorted but they missed a trick and should have shod it with a 21 front / 18 rear and and 200mm. For about 2.5k you could sort that albeit with 19/17 but spoked but Honda really should have seen this coming surely.
The seat height rules quite a few out even on the “smaller” bikes. A great review of the fleets pros and cons. Ultimately as you say it the mix of rider, bike, invented use, budget etc. I wanted to like the 452 but enough issues to put me off. I liked the Triumph engine look etc when I rode it. The GS I didn’t like so much as I found the front end a bit vague. The Vogue was too tall for me. I should have given the KTM a go but again it felt too tall. The 411 was like wearing your favourite jogging pants but I’ve got 20,000 miles on my 411 so to be expected. It’ll be interesting to see how many 450mt’s start arriving second hand next year after buyers remorse ….the Himmy 452’s are starting to appear second hand and the show rooms seem quite full of them as imho they aren’t selling to match the over hyped lead up to the launch. Good review than you.
I run a 300 rally which I mostly trail ride in Wales with the TRF, once the suspension is done its very capable in the tough lanes and stays with bigger stuff on open tracks, My DR350SE is for when things are going to be tough. I fancied longer legs so I went for a TTR600 now a 620 with higher compression and a 20 litre tank. It'll sit on 70, trail ride well and is about the same weight as my rally. The shock was lowered so it fits me. Loads of go, Brembo brakes, Ohlins shock, it's a great bike, lighter than most of bikes here with 45bhp Suzuki and Yamaha should remake bikes like the DR650, XT660 etc for the present day with fi, abs etc but sadly they dont.
No demos available for the CF Moto, and my nearest dealer won't have any until next May! I work in engineering and have seen the poor quality of Chinese parts, and the lead times are ridiculous.
Excellent comparison video! As an old guy returning to riding after 50 years (!) I started with a Honda Navi to reacquaint, moved up to a 310GS and was dissatisfied with the low-end torque and finally settled on Goldilocks: the Himalayan 411. It is gentle, planted, superb low -end torque, great in the gravel, superb on twisties and okay on the highway. Never satisfied, are we? Now I'm intrigued with the 450MT. Some may ask why not a Himmy 450. My answer: it's not really a Himalayan; too heavy, top heavy, tank to wide to squeeze your knees around and it's UGLY.
Very nice video. I have had a CRF 250 Rally, then a KTM 390 Adventure and currently a CRF300L (which I prefer to the rally). I have to admit I am very intrigued by the MT450.
Great comparison! I appreciate you adding the CCM to the mix. As you noted, it represents bikes like the Kove and the PR7 versus the CFMoto MT. As a Kove owner, I agree with your reasoning - a good rider will get a lot more out of the Kove than the CF Moto MT. Unfortunately, I'm not that talented, and would probably be better off with the CF Moto. Tubeless tires! Lower seat! Too bad my wife won't okay another bike purchase. I'll meddle along. My hope is to one day sign up for one of your tours. Too bad Devon is so far from my Seattle home.
Too early to say. Only 500 miles on it. I suspect parts will be as available as those for KTM (probably). Also lots of direct from China options online (Uncle Wang etc)
Sweet Lamb had 2 ktm 390s I believe but ktm is heavily pushing the 890 adv. I own a 390 adv. My views is that the paintwork is thin as it easily scratches, however i have had a constant giggle every time i have rode it on road and off road. The stance is a bit strange when standing up. The kick stand makes it stand rather upright and I always feel like its going to fall over. Im planning to use it for the next few years to get into rally racing as its the bike i own. Maybe if I do more longer trips, i might go up in size but im slightly put off by the weight and power of the larger bikes when it comes to off road and trail riding. That and the larger bikes cost more to buy and replace parts if you fall over which im expecting to have as a novice off road rider.
Yes I really think and believe that triumph could build a very good road endurance motorcycle 🏍️ with this engine of triumph you have showed us. And also the enfield Himalayan as well ! It’s a shame that they could crack it right now!
fantastic video Nathan, tested the cfmoto 450mt, it is the unicorn we have been waiting for, just waiting on Mansells here in Jersey to get their hands on some now, hopefully they will have two around Oct/Nov, my name is already down for one, cash is ready and waiting
Well done Nathan spot on as usual, there's more capable Bikes coming to the market in this class, yet not out of Japan. Beta Alp something in the mix..! At 65+ and the 70's Kawasaki was my preferred.. last a 81 KE175.. had not it been Life's new commitments..! I'd of liked to made this return with Kawi KLX250/300.. sadly dropped from UK Market.. How come the RE 411 ticked all the boxes.. other than, but time/fitness wise, weight is not such an issue.. I'll not be making a change. How you view CF Moto supply and delay on not having Bikes being delivered, could likewise parts/spares be as limited..!
Excellent opinionated review. I have a BMW 650GS Sertao, which is good for long distances here in Australia and good off road manners. Interestingly the wet weight is on par or slightly less than the RE 450 and CF MOTO 450. Cheers.
Great analysis. I’ll give the CF Moto a year to get some reliability info. In the meantime, looking at tubeless wheels for the 411 which I really enjoy.
Hi Nathan I have the new Himalayn as you say it feels a bit top heavy off the side stand but when you have 50mm block of wood under it the lean looks correct and it feels fine. I am thinking about lowering the bike ( I can flat foot it seated ) I see That Coperb in conjunction with Rally Raid are making a lowering link for the rear suspension. Sliding the forks up in the yokes in conjunction with the lowering link could make footing easier on the lanes. But then the centre stand will be too long. I have pottered around the back lane on Eco mode and I thought it made the motor feels a bit smoother.
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I have zero interest in a small cc off/on road bikes.
However this guy is THE best bike reviewer on Utube (or anywhere else).
No frills HONEST and KNOWLEDGEABLE - un like others, he doesn’t have to borrow bikes from dealers to review so he’s not worried about upsetting anyone.
If I was anywhere near Devon, I’d be beating a pathway to Dorothy’s speed shop and trying out the bikes on offer.
He’s a motorcycling gem…….thank you Nathan👌
He knows what he's talking about, and he's no frills.
They're not small, world average is 150cc
@@christopherpekel6096 spot on - I am sick of hearing `small` describing these 400`s. Pushy marketing has driven new riders to believe a 650 is a bike to tide you over till you become a real man and get a 1200
@@christopherpekel6096 That's one way of looking at it.
@@christopherpekel6096 It's all relative isn't it. Yes, in India these will be big bikes. But in the context of the UK they are small bikes and I'm not of significance enough to start labelling them medium sized bikes, or plus size one bikes or anything. The UK market knows them as small bikes.
THE cheapest performance upgrade you can buy for your bike, is rider training. The key thing is, you can transfer this improvement when you buy a different bike!
Totally agree. And definitely the most overlooked performance upgrade!
losing weight is also free and a massive performance upgrade. people keen to complain about a bike's wet weight when they're carrying an extra 20kg themselves lmao
🎯🎯
@@pitchwife7573 Like i do carry 30kg too mich. but these bikes are the ones my setup is getting lighter and lighter every day! ;)
@@pitchwife7573 I've been hearing this over and over. The question is, do you have 20 kg overweight or do you think the bike feels heavy? If you think the bike feels heavy, gain weight. Preferably muscle, but if you are physically active at all any weight gain comes with added muscle power because the body is adapted to the weight and then the bikes weight is less in relation to your body weight. Unless you are only dragracing the bike of course, then you can loose weight.
This was the BEST comparison of these kinds of bikes I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot!). Thanks!
Thanks Stefan. Appreciate the comment
Seeing your initial videos on the 450 MT and 450 Himalayan I went to a dealer and rode them back to back. Himi all day long, as the sitting and standing position was more to my liking, better front brake, and much nicer road handling, and no snatchy throttle. Like you said here: Get on the bike, and you will find out quickly what suits you. And spending money in training your skills is more effective than buying the more "capable" bike.
Essential viewing for anyone who wants an adventure - trail bike.
Nathan is the voice of knowledge and experience. Really good content👌👍
Great reviews / comparison of the bikes. I always trust the words of someone who actually redden them all in their travels.
Thanks
Another great informative video again Nathan. Wisdom and maturity beyond your years, as always.
Most concise review without the time consuming filler rubbish!
Sounded honest and experienced!
Thx
It’s a refreshing change to find an honest bike channel there few and far between that doesn’t have their head up the backsides of BMW and KTM.😎
Thanks Joe
Thanks for a great comparison between all these bikes. An excellent presentation!
As usual, another very intelligent review, no dogmatic opinions, understands the different priorities and perceptions of different riders.
The Light and Lower description of the BMW G 310GS is spot on. I'm 5'5" and over 60 years old so this bike suits me fine. It's the perfect daily commuter and a great weekend trail bike. It's as close to a 50/50 bike you can get. Thanks for the honest and descriptive reviews Nathan, you have a new subscriber...
Thanks Bruce. Glad to hear you're getting on well with the GS!
Best bike video by far on reviews. Fabulous honest and informative. Well done
Thanks Mike
@@nathanthepostman deffo up for a day with you at some point.
Totally agree. Moving from decades of riding big road bikes but with my teenage years spent riding dirt on trail bikes, I opted for the KTM 390 Adventure when I decided to get an adventure bike last year. No regrets. The lighter weight has allowed me to save myself from a fall any number of times - its small enough to be wrangled! Its still a pig in heavy going on the dirt compared to dedicated dirt bikes - the extra 60kg and 19"vs 21" front wheel is the compromise you make when going adventure but I keep up with my dirt bike mates when I hit the bush on a Sunday without too much trouble, unless the going gets tight and heavy. On the highway the KTM is great -fitted with cruise control and a sheepskin layer on the seat its super cruisy for long distances - I've done 800km in a day, half tarmac, half dirt. Thanks for this sensible post - there's too much crazy hype about big ADV bikes out there. Smaller is definitely the way to go if you actually want to ride dirt roads and stay upright.
Thanks for the great comparison between bikes! Mentioning the KLE500 reminded me of the fickle nature of motorcycle fashion and past attempts at producing the unicorn. The first generation Honda Transalp of 1987 has almost identical specs to the 450 MT in terms of weight, power and suspension travel. Nobody in the UK or USA wanted it back then. Would they want it now? The human condition seems to be the desire to have something that isn't available. Everybody now wants a Kawasaki Versys 400 with 21" front wheel or similar bike from Honda. Good on CF Moto for getting their timing right!
Brilliant video Nathan, thanks for taking the time to put it together. Very knowledgeable and honest delivery as always.
Thanks mike
I’ve had my BMW GS310 for 3 years now and done 15,000kms on a mixture of tar and dirt roads. It’s been a great little bike, and I enjoy riding it very much. However as Nathan said a bit more power would be good and I think better brakes and suspension would make it a really good all-round small adventure bike. I will be taking a test ride in the CF Moto 450 very soon.
On the 3rd year with my GS as well. The new bikes in the category are really tempting. The weight increase could he beneficial on the motorway, but not sure how it would affect everything else. Also, still 2 years of warranty on the BMW, and no issues so far.
Try a full Akra system on the 310. I did on mine, and it totally unlocks the character of the engine and transforms the bike. I know that's a cliche, but I feel this bike benefits more from a full system than any other I've ever riden.
Not to mention a huge weight saving.
keep us updated
Fantastic insight from a man with no bias who owns all his bikes. Furthermore, has a business to help allow others to make up their own opinion. Especially referencing you prefer the 450MT but the guy testing for himself preferred the Himi.
Like Nathan I also prefer small capacity adventure bikes. My 2 canvas’ are a 10 year old crf250l and a newer versys x300. Both have been transformed into exactly what I want out of a small adventure bike. Both the 450MT and Himi have my attention, but I will be holding off for 3 reasons. 1. I really like my current 2 bikes. 2. I try not to buy first year bikes. 3. I try to stick with Japanese made bikes.
My Crf250l has had suspension upgrade, screen, fuelling programmer, full exhaust system, concept seat, the capacity to carry double the amount of fuel that was intended, D606 tyres, screen, bark busters, skid plate and many more items to perfect going on multiple day tour off road. Reliability and buy in is important to me. Personally, as mentioned, I try to purchase Japanese and when the price is too high compared to another brand I simply buy second hand. We know the build quality of bikes made in Japan, there’s no guessing. Each to their own.
The versys x300 I believe you don’t get in the UK? I use this bike as my adventure (90% on road) bike. It has all the comfort mods making it a delight to take anywhere.
The secret I found after decades of riding is light weight, small engine engagement, chassis for fun going through bends. But for adventure riding it’s the costs associated. Smaller adventure bikes are cheaper in every way and there are the bike you will be putting the miles on. They are the bike you will drop etc. meaning if you lack in ego like myself, especially after owning many ADV bikes, then I don’t see a better option. It feels to me more for filling touring a small bike, even though I’m the only one who has a small ADV in my friend group.
I have owned the Crf rally, Wr250R and X and KTM 390 Adventure. Along with 650’s and 1000’s and this is where I ended up.
I definitely subscribe to all sports bike should have more poke as they generally don’t do many K’s and are used for that speed addiction. I own 4 bikes the other 2 are a Suzuki GSX-8S and Kawasaki Ninja 1000sx. I like variety genres which does make me appreciate jumping from bike to bike. Having the right style for what I’m intending to do.
The ninja is not for sport touring, purely a comfortable sport bike. The GSX-8S is for sitting in the wind and tight quick switch back curves. Both with fantastic acceleration. Purely for 30 to an hour and a half fun.
I’ll stop my rambling, thank you for the fantastic video.
Writing this so prospective buyers consider another seriously under rated option...
Cheap, bulletproof, lighter than half of these with a low seat height that will be fun to use also as a daily.
Having put over 35,000ks on a couple of Versys-X 300s, it is the best missing option from this review. Yes it definitely does want the YSS suspension upgrade if you are 85kg plus for a better all round experience both on and off the road but it's lighter than most, has great range and is extremely capable of being mistreated and surviving whatever you want to throw at it. The most two stroke of four strokes for the power delivery and doesn't mind being run all day at 9000 rpm.
Definitely a more road oriented bike than the 450MT and I should have sold mine by now... But it's still so much fun to just jump on and flog.
If I were choosing a ride around Australia bike the 450MT would win for me but there would be numerous times, especially when wanting something lighter that I would be wishing for the Versys-X.
I do agree with you that the Honda is a bulletproof option but Honda has let us all down with the lack of development and evolution of the 250 to 300 with the CRF.
This market is about to come alive with more options in the next few years now someone has made a serious step towards the 'unicorn'.
Great review/comparison!
Hi Edward. Thanks for the comment. I do now own a Versys 300X and yes, great bike. Very different to the others here. I wouldn't say it was in the same ball park for all around adventure use (trail / road) as the CF Moto and Himalayan but for more road based riding it's great to ride. The one I bought has 42000 miles on it and is still going strong!
Amazing video. All bikes back to back and without the unnecessary road documentary of typical group tests. Got my KTM 390 ADV a month ago and love it.
Thank you, Nathan. This was very helpful. I am after my FIRST ever bike. The goal is trails and some cool BDR routes with a friend, and hopefully a trip south of our border, but I know the main use, simply due to the routines of life, will be surface roads here in town. That said, after watching your SUPER unbiased reviews today, and some other well done vids, the CF Moto really does beg to be tested and hopefully purchased. Thanks again for the great video.
No problem MrA. Give the CF a go and see how you like it
Great advice and well done! This put a smile on my face
Difficult to imagine a more comprehensive review of this class of bike. Good stuff
Cheers James
'More talent, rather than more speed'. I concur! I often ask myself if I am the limiter, or the bike. I know the answer, and that's why I'm more than happy with capabilities of my 411.
I think most of us are the limiting factor. All these bikes will go faster than we can ride them!
Just seen the concept 450gs and the new ktm 390 adventure. Look cracking machines but probablly with mega price. you make so much sense of it all nathan
Impressive how many bikes you have! This was a great review - I wish all bike reviews were like this one.
This is the best insight in to the smaller engined trail adventure bikes I have watched. Real world advice .
Superb advice. 👍👍💪
I still think that for most average riders, the original Himalayan is more than enough.
No silly car type "tech", cheap as chips, easy to service on the road, tough as bootz.
The bike for the riders with zero ego and more sense than ££s.👌
Totally agree. Still a great bike.
And a great bike to learn some basic maintenance on...
KLR 650 no nonsense
@@Ramenscooter KLR 650 is similar to the new himalayan than it is OG one
Estoy muy de acuerdo. A la mayoría le sobra moto y coches . He visto mujeres y hombres que compran autos de 50000 USD con más de 300 hp y torques impresionantes solo para llevar sus hijos a la escuela e ir a hacer las compras del súper . No sabe ni que manejan ni utilizan las capacidades de su auto , son desperdicios, pero tienen mucho que ver con algo psicológico, carencias personales , ignorancia, usar los objetos como una proyección de las características que les venden en las tiendas como algo impresionante e imprescindible cuando lo cierto que es que con muchos menos te alcanza y sobra . Es la instalación de la insatisfacción en la mente del consumidor. Espero haber sido claro como lo escribí.
Saludos
Good vid. I've been saying for ages that the big manufacturers ar missing a complete sector of the market CFmoto & RE identified exactly what is needed
I'm facing the choice of one of the presented motorcycles and your film, among dozens of other films on RUclips brought me closer to making a decision. Great job:)
Excellent - insightful, honest and loved the straight-talking about the bikes! Still love my 2018 Honda 250 Rally, but you're so right about Honda being conservative as the 300 Rally is not much of a step forward and we're 6 years on!
Nathan, you and Stu Fillingham are the current sound of reason regarding the current motorcycle world. Your balanced views always tempered with reason, intelligence and the proviso that it is ‘just your opinion’ instil respect from your followers here and abroad. Your logic in this particular summary will only see your following increase for motorcyclists wanting balanced, unbiased reviews of real world bikes in the ADV market. If I was closer I’d head down your way to try some of your bikes, though I’ve ordered a 450MT after sitting on one - that’s how impressed I was with how it felt without even getting a chance to ride it. Convinced this segment is going to be huge in the future and will see a sea change in how and what people ride.
Brilliant video thank you so much even convinced my wife she don’t need to replace her cb500x for a tiger 900. On my cb500x I commute to work and we done 3 week tours and both these bikes have been fantastic I do prefer a bike which if I have to will cope with unsealed roads and give me confidence.out all these bikes I really feel the cf moto 450mt would be a good improvement on my current Honda as the nx500 just doesn’t hit the mark in my opinion over what cf moto are offering
I learned more with you then any other videos...
Ace video as always :) Being an NX500 owner think I can chime in with a long reply comparing what we’ve bought from a very different perspective, having tried green laning as an experienced track and roads rider but green laning novice, an the ownership experience of a few of the other bikes.
utterly loving the NX500 an I’ve owned everything from ex iom tt bikes to 1920s Nortons and GSA’s which have all been ridden, I think when choosing a bike you have to be objective about your own needs and choose what’s right for you,
an if green laning isn’t your idea of adventure you might find this comment a bit interesting, its a different set of bikes that start to really be the thinking choice while everyone else is chasing down the endurofication of adventure / green lane route personally we’ve gone in a different direction having just bought a Honda Nx500 and about to buy a 2nd one.
Always enjoy your vids Nathan as it’s interesting to see a completely different perspective on them coming from an alternative view of what Adventure is.
On the smaller stuff owned 2x Ktm 390s
Rejected at 147 and 269 miles riddled with issues, Ktm were the worst company to deal with regarding problems washed there hands an left is to fight it out with the dealer, something to bear in mind,
Two bikes had drastically different levels of vibration between them.
Handled well though.
Problems with none sealing rims, condensation damaging the displays, corrosion when the bikes arrived new requiring replacement parts, side panel found to have a missing lug,
Displays were a major issue in winter.
Ktm have now put in there warranty book that they don’t cover the displays, we actually looked at the larger Ktms but they have the cam issue.
Anything can go wrong with bikes or anything that’s made, the problem is how the companies deal with it anyone who’s used to BMW level of service when things go wrong won’t enjoy the Ktm experience.
It was a real shame as it was just so darn enjoyable to ride lotta fizz to it on the road thirsty though.
Himalayan 411 - 500 miles found ourselves in the same boat full of issues, twisted forks, seized swing arm, still wasn’t convinced on the chassis after the first service, I know a friend of mine also had issues with an out of line/twisted chassis from new, then failed brake light switch x2, missing clips on breather lines, an a few other issues, dealer agreed shouldn’t have happened and refunded with no issue.
Biggest problem with the Enfield is they couldn’t get the parts to sort it at the time. A friend of mine has been after a part for his meteor for 12 months under warranty.
Issues an parts availability are always my biggest concern when weighing up any brand on the yam I had stuff next day compared to the Enfield.
Honda 300 rally sold to get my 1150gsa which I love. 300 rally was great road toured over wales for legal speeds not loaded up, personally found it better than the Himmy, seat was a torture device same as Enfield, with road riding as the compromise Honda would be my choice of the above if I was totally focused on green laning, with the rally raid stage 1 rear shock. Stock shock was rubbish, wind protection and mpg surprisingly good.
Tenere 700 was great for me no good for dad. Although to compromised towards trail riding if you weren’t doing it. (We had got it for a trail riding trip that’s now out of the window) I found it very manageable to move about even on the trails. A few mates of mine that have the ability can really make use of those.
If I was to choose between those for trail riding I’d take the 300 rally as you can never have a light enough bike for that, throw road work on though and it’s quite evenly matched, especially when riding to the TRF code of conduct I never dropped any of them on the lanes so can’t comment on pickup ability an our lanes up here are a lot different to your muddy ones.
Which leads me onto the ‘unimaginative’ nx500 or the thinking persons choice 😉 if trail riding isn’t your bag, just stuck 1000 miles on it and bearing in mind we have had ex iom tt race bikes it’s still heaps of fun.
The engine is fun and engaging, beautiful gear box, seat height sensible the clutch is featherlight amazingly so, engines grunty low down for a 500 surprisingly nice exhaust note, an revs it loves revs, which makes for an engaging ride, suspension is easily a match for the Ktm on the front end feel wise. As with all a back shock would transform it.
Biggest thing is its road holding after riding lots of 21” wheels it’s like it’s glued to the ground an on rails.
Where it has the legs on the other options for me is the travel aspect smooth, composed, great wind protection sure footed and feels like a complete package. Superb seat height to an amazing mpg and sharp brakes.
It has a level of refinement to it of a bike with development behind it and it’s a proven rtw choice in the previous cb500x guise.
Very light of the stand like pushing a push bike around compared to the GSA so utterly perfect for dad. Easier than a T7 to.
A brilliant choice For those of us that where green laning isn’t our idea of adventure I completely get where it wouldn’t fit what you want hence your comments.
Much more manageable than a vstrom 650xt we had that I loved an did a few 600 mile days on
As what I see as strengths for our sort of riding is the other side of the coin to what you green lane peeps are looking for :)
Another aspect is insurance I found the NX500 to be a fraction of the cost for me than the 300 rally and the Ktm 390 with the Honda hiss system, when I was deciding what to replace the T7 with for dad.
I think from a managability point of view dads done quite a bit of miles on the Honda Nx500 a few 3 hour rides an that’s after him having major surgery for his stage 3b/4 prostate cancer an he’s been having a few rides through his current radio therapy an in love with it.
His last bikes were a GSXR 750 K9, RD350LC an a Ktm 390 adv.
Bikes like the Honda Nx 500 an the GS’ still make a tremendous lot of sense as they just don’t fatigue you in the way a single does.
Another aspect is I’ve never had an issue with over 20 Japanese bikes I’ve had (used to do massive miles so would change every year)
I actually decided against selling the 1150gsa when I thought about it an just how much sense it still makes for me and my riding, also managed to insure it for 40 quid for a year on my classic insurance! Can’t beat that. In 3 years the insurance difference from when it was on the modern insurance is gonna pay back all the expenditure in parts I spent bringing her up to scratch.
Thought provoking video as always Nathan.
Anyways off to plan the next trip on the 1150 gsa to Starbucks 😋 I also had a 1200gs te Rallye a found that just as manageable on the travel stuff as some of the smaller stuff when you take the green laning out of the equation.
I'm actually torn in between buying CB 500X 2023 OR a BNEW NX 500 or Himalayan 450
@@baldomeroh the Nx has really impressed from the suspension engine and as something as simple as the tft not filling with condensation because of the design of it an how easy it is to read :) well worth a test ride ultimately buy whatever pulls your heart Nx, cb the bikes Nathan superbly reviewed or something else. After my dad and I have finished our move to Devon I’ll be buying a 2nd nx500 so we have one each :) to compliment my 1150gsa
I’ve not had a cb500x so can’t comment on that only from the perspective of the Nx500 but it feels a really nice well thought out package for the reasons I described above, the problems we had with the 411 put me off buying the 450 along with the mentions of top heaviness which the nx500 doesn’t have at all. Everyone’s take is always different which is why I think Nathan’s days are such a good idea.
Very very impressed with it and I’ve learnt I prefer twin cylinder bikes every time parallel vtwin or boxer for my style of adventure riding. Although I do ride a 1927 Norton 16h flat tanker 500cc single but that’s another story :)
Hope this helps :)
Editing is your friend 😅
@@user-hv3xv4xs6j I’m severely dyslexic takes a long time to type stuff out 👍 it is what it is :) if someone finds it useful great if not lots of other comments :)
@adaptableadventurerider Love your thinking born out of miles and years of experience. I keep hearing stories about bad KTM support/reliability: some people have trouble-free miles, others garage-only decorative queens waiting for parts and endless troubleshooting. Betting on risk/probabilities KTM is not worth it for me. Your praise for the R1150 I note, maybe I will look into a low-miles R1200 sometime. Most of all, your praise of NX500 caught my attention--maybe that will become my daily ride. Sorry about your dyslexia. Your willingness to struggle through to write such a lengthy comment says good things about your character. !!!
This is one of the best comparison reviews I've heard. Total common sense with no BS. Really enjoyed it & the points made about bike sizes & types is so correct for a less well informed rider to think about. As a youngster I rode bikes off road for a good 5 years before getting on the roads. That was 5 years of riding training in all conditions. It stood me in good stead for road riding. A skilled rider soon knows what type/size of bike is right for the type of riding theyre buying a bike for. I know most want a one fits all bike. Costs alone dictate that decision. In my case I wouldn't dream of wanting the same bike, I'd be riding mostly off road to a one I'd be mainly be using on the road. They're 2 completely different animals for me.
Thanks Davy. Totally agree, if you've done some training and you know your abilities and what you intend to do then choosing the right bike is fairly straight forward
Nathan, as always, you nailed it! I drove with my Voge Rally to a local CF Moto dealer to test the 450 MT. Fortunately, here in germany there was still one to test ride. I liked it, engine wise feels on par with my old vstrom 650, similar performance but could be the weight difference, and it's been a while since I drove the 650. Otherwise, it is a shockingly low bike. Way to low for me (189cm/6.2"), the seat must be a lot higher and the pegs a little lower. In stock, not very comfortable for a taller person, compared to the Voge.
Dealer told me there is an optional high seat that is more a bench seat. But he don't think he gets one not until next year. The same goes for high fender, all the parts and bikes in general. Sounded very frustrated. I think it will be an upgrade from the Rally in a couple of years when CF Moto figured their delivery problems out.
The stock seat is a bit low. Uncle Wang has the taller seat listed. Maybe that'd be a quicker delivery
Sold a BMW GS and a T7 for the reasons you are saying.
Still riding a ktm 390 adventure for all the reasons you mentioned.
What a smart, entertaining review! I like the way you wheel every unit into the frame. Damn the Triumph is pretty, but like many….the CF Moto has the big allure. Not sure I’m ready for 4 bikes though ha! 😅
Outstanding comparison of middle range ADV motorcycles.
The CF 450 MT seems to be the winner, at least for me.
Fantastic video, such clear, sensible and unbiased opinions about the pros and cons of these bikes from someone who actually knows the bikes well. Thank you Nathan.
Best/most thorough comparison of mid weight bikes, which are my class. I am so done with the big heavy adventure bikes. Thank you for such a great video.
Thanks eye. Appreciate thar
You have to be the best bike reviewer I've seen. Possibly best reviewer of anything unless you count Have I Got News For You as a review service but that's not a shameful second place, if so...
About your Triumph 400X:
Is your luggage rack easily interchangeable with the seat? I know you don't necessarily consider it powerful enough for a pillion but my pillions (aka partner and children) are all rather light and precious so I neither need nor want much power as that only invites greater risk taking. When I ride alone I effectively lose up to 40% of the load thereby naturally improving handling and power to weight ratio for increased fun with no one else paying for my stupidity.
How much more play could I get on the forks from the people who supplied/fitted yours?
Awesome video Nathan 💯, the only bike missing at Dorothy's is a Fantic caballero rally 🏁⚡
Fantastic overview and comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Really enjoyed the video some very interesting points to consider im quite excited to see finally more manufacturers competing at this level but feel there needs to be more to come hopefully 👍👍👍
Great review for those of us who aren't expert riders wanting to rip down the hardest of trails. I've looked at most of these bikes, as I would like to move on to a small ADV bike mainly for street riding, but one that I would be comfortable taking down a modest forest road or county dirt road. Most of these feel too big, too heavy, or just too old school. The CF Moto does seem to offer me the best combination of characteristics that I want, so I have a deposit down for when they arrive in the U.S. As you note, when you sit on a bike or put a few miles on a bike you'll know real quick whether it works for you or not, so I'll see when one comes in here. However, whether or not the CF Moto is for any given rider or not, I really appreciate the features and value for the money that they are offering - I hope (and believe) they will be pushing the other heritage manufacturers to do more.
Thanks Terry. Hope you get on with it ok
I enjoyed your common sense down to earth with no bullshhit video.
Well done 👏
Thanks Stephen.
Great job on the comparison! It's really detailed and professional. I've been on a lot of the bikes you reviewed, and I ended up keeping the CRF 300 Rally with some aftermarket upgrades. CF Moto has definitely stepped up their game. I can't wait for EICMA 24 to see how the Japanese brands respond to CF Moto's success. Thanks again! Gianluca from Italy."
The best accessory available to get the most out of all the bikes on review is more fuel. Great bike review.
Ive had my 450 mt for a couple of weeks now still running it in and other than the snatchy throttle it's pretty much hard to beat , it's now fitted with a 15 tooth front sprocket and it now it will cruise happily on the motorway , cracking bike
Will have to try the 15
On Australia there is an official update that they do with their mobile phone through cfmoto app (not sure the precise name) to their bikes.
@@nathanthepostman just makes it less revy on our English roads , so easy to change aswell mate 😍
One of the most down to earth reviews out there! Btw this looks like a DREAM garage- a perfect showroom didnt think existed :)
Thanks Musique. Always a few bikes to add!
I always come away from your videos wanting to go for a ride on my 411 Himalayan! You should be on commission for small adventure bikes! 😊
Rain..😠or shine.. 😎.. I've got'a get out on 411 tomorrow..
The 450 MT is a very good-looking bike for its type. I prefer singles in the under 500cc category., though. The Moto Morini doesn't half look good. Heavy, though. The KTM's engine begs you to go faster. I like the Triumph's low-down grunt. Low gearing? Shame the BMW isn't 100cc bigger. Shame the CCM didn't take off. 19:58 Wow! That Kove is stunning. Too revvy, by the sound of it. The 300 Rally is way too expensive. I remember the KLE500. I don't like the sound of the Himalayan 450.
What a good video. Nick
Then I guess the Himalayan 450 with aftermarket exhaust is your pick... as would be mine.
I had a 390 Adventure for about a year but in the end those big single vibrations just wore me down on longer road rides. Sold it and kept the bike it was going to replace, which is the good old Versys X-300! The CF Moto does look interesting but seems a bit on the big side to me at 5'7"
It appears th CF Moto does in fact adjust down to folks in the 5'7-5'8" perfectly fine.
I have an unhealthy attraction to bikes that can do a bit of both road and (gentle) off-road. I have been at a dealer and just sat on 411 Scram, 411 Himalayan and 450 Himalayan. The 450 felt so much different. I felt best on the Scram (I am yet to drive one) - and really like the looks and the sound. But as you said towards the end of the video - one should really think well what kind of driving they are going to be doing. And I must be honest with myself - there is very little of off-roading possible where I live (south-ish Germany). So I need to use the coming months to think long and hard about it, then take some re-fresh classes and go for test rides and see what 'works'.
I love the 450MT. Took it for a testride last week and it impressed me for the money.
The Xcape is real fun bike as well. Been close to buying one. I need a bike that can cruise on the autobahn for hours on end. So a Vstrom, 800MT or Tiger 850 might be my best options.
Awesome take on this segment. Viewer from the southern tip of the Philippines here, and I for one have always had a thing for smaller displacement "big-bikes." Luckily due to financial and time constraints, I haven't subscribed to the adage that bigger/more expensive is always better. This video of yours just sums that up really well. Cheers mate and ride safe.
Thanks j. Appreciate that. See you in the Philippines some day
Thanks for this great video! Unfourtunately most of these bikes are not avaolable in Brasil, what a shame.
That's a real shame that Carlos. Sorry to hear that!
Bummer, sounds like i'm 'over-biked' then with my ego & no talent! Lucky I also have a small bike too when I come to Devon otherwise I'll be stopped at the border😄. Good summary as usual Nathan and I do agree with your philosophy but sometimes your heart wins over your head & a bigger bike makes you feel good. To be completely honest the Desert X is the first bike i've ever owned where I look back in the garage and get emotional over the look of the thing & it is just awesome to ride on the road (& a bloody handful off road but I haven't dropped it........yet!)
Hi Nathan another great video you explained it all very well thank you. I am still waiting to get my CRF300 rally back from having the engine repaired under warranty been 3 months now. I bought a new Transalp 750 just as it went in to be fixed. I know you say it’s too big and heavy but it’s only 208kgs wet Claimed I haven’t weighed mine but to me it feels fairly light about the same as my Himalayan 411 was and seems to have a low centre of gravity. Which makes it not much heavier than the CF Moto 450MT. It has a low seat height and the suspension is good enough stock for me. I find it to be the easiest gravel road bike I have had. I would call it a great all road touring bike very comfortable plenty of power and great handling for long highway stints. A skilled rider could take it in your green lanes (not me). I have to decide what to do with my CRF300 when I get it back. I spent the money and got RallyRaid level 1 suspension front and rear. It is a good bike but I have lost faith in the reliability which is why I sold my Himalayan 411. The CF Moto wasn’t available in Australia when I bought my Transalp and are fairly expensive over here $9500. AUD. I thought I would just add my thoughts. I love my bike and haven’t ridden the CF Moto party because I don’t want to find out that it’s better than what I have already bought.
Ive ridden both recently on a testride. The transalp has heaps more power, but to me felt bigger and more top heavy vs the 450MT. The lack of tubeless rims is a buzz kill for me though. 90% of the time i want tubeless, and if I am going on a hardcore trip and need tubes, I can pop them in to the tubeless rims on the 450MT. Why honda refuses to offer tubeless is so silly
@@slakk5093 I think you are right but for me the CFMoto hadn’t been released here in Australia when I bought my Transalp. The tubeless rims aren’t an issue for me because I have never had an issue with having tubes in 45 years of riding in Australia. I have made a very conscious effort not to add lots of extra weight to the Transalp no engine bars or pannier racks etc. and keep as much weight as low as possible. I have added a sump guard and keep my tool bag between the sump guard and engine. The only other additions are barkbusters and a small plastic topbox just big enough to lock up my helmet. And obviously the Transalp is a bigger bike but the extra size and power for me probably makes the little extra weight worthwhile because where I am in Western Australia I do a lot of kms on country highways to get to the interesting places. For example I did a 3 day 2 night camping trip and did 1500kms. Also the only CFMoto dealers are in the city at the moment.
Obviously I am trying to justify my purchase but I am very happy with it. I still have my CRF300 rally which I will probably sell soon.
Enjoyed your review. What a great selection of bikes to have ready access to.
One of the Best video on 2024❤❤❤
I agree with the last part wholeheartedly. The right bike for you is the one that suits your needs, your riding style, your priorities, your budget.
I have been living with a very lightly modified Versys x300 for 6 years, I can't complain about the bike off road, i could complain about my skills off road because I'm not that gutsy, neither i want to get that overconfident. What i need from a bike is better cruising speeds for the most part(my bike is already running with 15-45 sprockets, i can make it any longer than that), and a little more of off-road capabilities wouldn't hirt me at all, i would not feel comfortable with sacrificing off road performance just for getting a bigger bike, and the 450 MT checks those boxes really really well.
I work with my bike, but i like to enjoy the ride as i get to the different places i have to go to, once i started using that twin cyl engine on and off road, i fell in love with the smoothness and the lack of vibrations, I can't go back to a single cyl, even if the KTM is a 390 Duke playing dress up, i don't like how it looks and how limited it might feel on harsh terrain, i used a Bajaj NS200 for work for about 2 years and i went to hell and back, but i was shitting my pants every time i had to tackle very technical terrain.
A very useful multi-bike comparison, thanks.
Another fantastic video,👍🏻👍🏻
Fantastic summary and very wise advice as usual Nathan!
Great review. Very insightful and to the point. The keywords are what are you going to use it for as you said. One thing I would like to bring to the attention of people contemplating the 300 is its unexpected ability to work as a long range adv bike. It has to be the easiest adv bike out there to handle with full loads for extended very remote touring. Part of this is its amazing fuel efficiency. It will do the 530 Ks desert trail we have here called the Simpson with over 1000 sand dunes with 21 litres of fuel where my DR 650 which is also a great remote adv bike will need 36. It also is just so much easier to handle fully loaded and has more then enough power to do very steep trails and sand dunes loaded like this, which was a surprise to me. Agreed it is overpriced and basic but it just works in this role. The one I have now has autonomy of just over 1000 ks with my setup which we need here for some of the trails.
Totally agree about the crf. It just does the job and far more capable than most riders.
Great real world content as usual Nathan. I'm curious why you brought up the CCM which lets face it is a bit of a rare item when bikes like the DRZ400 are still widely available on the second hand market. Everybody seems to have forgotten about the DRZ. 145kg wet weight. Quality long travel suspension and loads of aftermarket add ons. Its a TET bike rather than an adventurer but falls in the same category as the CRF and Voge. What do you think?
Excellent, concise comparison. Re. Himalayan, I thought the brakes were pretty feeble.
Yeah I saw that in your vid. I've found mine ok. The back is pretty bitey, though the lever sits high so I find it hard to modulate. The front is ok. Definitely sharper than the 411, which isn't difficult!
Great vid again. Interesting comments about Honda's attitude which I'd also wondered about. Given every review I've seen by US and European reviewers has commented on the suspension being too soft for us larger humans, why haven't they just done a Euro/US version with a stiffer set up? It would be extremely simple to do at the factory and it wouldn't cost much. Throw in a bigger bore version to make 70mph cruising more realistic and the price wouldn't seem so unrealistic. The rise of Voge and CF Moto does make you wonder how long Honda have before they go the way of the old British bike industry.
Yes, I think for the money Honda shouldn't let it out with such sloppy suspension. Feels like they couldn't care less about the quality.
Great and very complete video! I'm a senior rider and want to downgrade to an easy and light ADV bike, all of them showed in your video, thanks!. My sort list are the KTM390 and the CF MOTO . Theorically I'm more road oriented and as you said it can be better the KTM but I'v owned singles and twins and the smoothness and wide range of rpm of a twin moves me to the CF MOTO. Seat heigh is also in favour of the MT since I'm not very tall. Weight is in favor of the KTM but reviews said the difference with MT is not dramatical. Hope to test ride both and decide. All of this could have been avoided if KTM didnt quit their 490 twin project many of us where waiting for! I guess KTM will reconsider that in a while...
In my experience the KTM has an incredible and powerful motor and the chassis seems beaut albeit smallish. The ergonomics however are not ADV. Found that footpegs are forward mounted and you sit on top of the bike rather than in it- a feeling of being exposed. Longer rides for me produced fatigue.
I have owned both the 390 Adventure and currently own a CF Moto 450MT, in my opinion the 450MT is hands down a much better bike, one thing that doesn't really get mentioned, the small windscreen on the 390 ADV is awful, created buffeting on any helmet I wore, I went through the aftermarket screens before sorting it, the 450MT is the complete opposite, smooth, no buffeting and adjustable. The seat height on the 450 is very confidence inspiring and comfortable, the 390 is not a high seat but was wide yet less comfortable, everyone is different and has different ideas of what they want in a bike, I recently sold a Tenere World Raid as it was way behind my skill level, a brilliant bike in the hands of a not so brilliant rider, the 450MT is different in it helps develop confidence and is 80% of the T7 with less weight and half the price.
@@davidz8 thanks very much for your advice! Cannot be more convinient since I'm thinking about this two bikes. Another point for the MT! 👍👍
My wife had the 390 and found I was taking it out more than my GSA. However, we had many issues with the bike. Initially dealer support was good in sorting stuff. However, on the 6th (of 9) returns to the dealer we were told that the issue was down to the rider. The issue was that the bike kept cutting out on a trailing throttle….ended up getting rid of it and will never darken KTMs door again.
@@mac22011964 I bought my 390 from my local KTM dealer in Birmingham DMC Moto, they were an absolute joke, when it came to the first service I asked them to do the software update that gave the bike the off road mode, they had no idea and kept telling me the 390 did not have rider modes, I was there for 3 hours (after the service) before they came out and said "oh yeh we found it, it was under ABS, they and KTM UK were useless. I bought my 450MT from Redline in Loughborough another KTM dealer, they are fantastic, they truly care about their customers and reputation, I wouldn't take the bike anywhere else and they are an hour away from me. The only thing that irks me with the 450 are the 3000 mile service intervals, it should be more like 6000 miles. After a year, if there are no warranty issues I may well just get it serviced at Redline every 6000 miles and do the 3000 mile oil change myself.
Cheers Nathan, great video!
The point that you make in the end is in my opinion the most important one. Deciding what kind of riding you are going to do, narrowes down your choice in bikes.
But if you're a brand new rider, looking out for your very first bike that's easier said than done.
Personally, I've always eyed those more off road capable bikes (like the Voge, CRF etc) as I've heard that learning on dirt improves ones skills onroad as well. Yet i can't help but think that if I buy a bike I will want to use it for commuting eventually and probably travelling too. So I usually end up trying to find a do-it-all kind of bike... (To be honest I'm trying to convince myself that I will be able to do everything on a Voge and enjoy it)
All in all, I'd like your take on the subject of this very nice video you made from a perspective of a first time rider. Obviously if you can spare some time. (That goes for anyone willing to share some useful info here in the comment section)
Many thanks and keep up the good work, I hope one day I'll find my way to Devon.
Alex from Athens, Gr
Hi Alex. Good question. It's a tricky one to answer as it's like asking what food will I like before you even ever tasted any food. You've just got to get in there and try it. And see what you like. Whether you like the off road or not. Or distances or commuting. There's no right or wrong answer. just get the voge and see what it does that you like and what it does that you don't like. And then when you come time to swap it you'll have a much better grounding in which bike will suit you better. It's all a learning curve and you've just got to get on it.
@@nathanthepostman Indeed! I appreciate your response.
Have a nice day!
We are very fortunate that the Suzuki DR 650 is still available in North America. Mod it to your style of riding and it will crush any of the bikes in this comparison.
I agree. I really don’t understand why anyone would buy any of these bikes brand new when you can buy a used 650 class or a Tenere 700.
Not so unfortunately. The DR is an amazing bike I have one modified for remote heavy going off road travel here in Australia nearly 100000 ks on it with no issues except for burning a very small amount of oil. Unbelievably still on the original clutch despite being loaded regularly with 55 litres of fuel 12 litres of water and food for 10 days in some of our toughest 4x4 tracks. I still have it and will never get rid of it. Too many good memories. The 300 rally that has replaced though is simply amazing. Very similar to the DR in many ways but so much easier to ride fully loaded when the trail gets tough. As a straight dual sport that you usually ride unloaded yep the there is no reason to change but as a long range remote Adv bike ridden fully loaded, it is far superior.
@@tonyrdr7207 I don’t even know what you’re trying to say. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? I the CRF300 is a fantastic bike which I agree with. The CF moto is not
@@IRLtrolls was talking about the comment that it would crush any of these bikes as you said including the 300rally. I love the DR but the 300 rally is far superior and easier to set up as an adv bike. Not sure about the CF as I have not risen it on tight trails,but I expect it to be closer to a KLR simply because of the weight.
Thanks for the great review! Spent 3 years thrashing a versys 300 on full dirt tires around greece, amazing fun amazing bike, but looking for something more dirt focused. Stuck between the cf and the himi, test drove both, liked the cf way more. Very hesitant because i have huge bias against Chinese manufacturing, primarily from Chinese vehicles in my home country being notoriously unreliable.
It would be great to see these bikes compared to bikes from 20 years ago, bikes like the DR650, F650Gs, XT660 etc, there doesn't seem to have been much evolution apart from less power/torque without a corresponding loss in weight.
Yes, to be honest that's exactly the direction I had in mind. I was looking at picking up a KLE500 to begin with. Then go through some of the back catalogue.
@@nathanthepostman A good and underated starting point.
Brilliant video mate. I have an NX500 currently which I am really pleased with but it will cost a great deal in aftermarket parts to get it to the level of going off road like the 450MT. I have placed an order for the 450MT at the same place you got your from I think in Swindon. Bike treads was it and yes confirmed for around February / March time.
Yes that Rieju 500 is interesting as well - spoked wheels, big suspension - but too niche. The CF Moto is bordering on the mainstream so I think it'll squeeze the NX out quite a bit. Honda needs to up the ante a bit. But then where's Zuzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha et al!
Agreed. The Japanese bikes manufacturers have been caught napping here. Watching your videos since I downsized from a 1200 a few months ago has made me interested in a bit of off road. The CB500X / NX500 has been a revelation quite honestly as the bike is so well sorted but they missed a trick and should have shod it with a 21 front / 18 rear and and 200mm. For about 2.5k you could sort that albeit with 19/17 but spoked but Honda really should have seen this coming surely.
The seat height rules quite a few out even on the “smaller” bikes. A great review of the fleets pros and cons. Ultimately as you say it the mix of rider, bike, invented use, budget etc. I wanted to like the 452 but enough issues to put me off. I liked the Triumph engine look etc when I rode it. The GS I didn’t like so much as I found the front end a bit vague. The Vogue was too tall for me. I should have given the KTM a go but again it felt too tall. The 411 was like wearing your favourite jogging pants but I’ve got 20,000 miles on my 411 so to be expected. It’ll be interesting to see how many 450mt’s start arriving second hand next year after buyers remorse ….the Himmy 452’s are starting to appear second hand and the show rooms seem quite full of them as imho they aren’t selling to match the over hyped lead up to the launch. Good review than you.
Brilliant review Nathan, I'll take one of each please😊
I run a 300 rally which I mostly trail ride in Wales with the TRF, once the suspension is done its very capable in the tough lanes and stays with bigger stuff on open tracks, My DR350SE is for when things are going to be tough.
I fancied longer legs so I went for a TTR600 now a 620 with higher compression and a 20 litre tank.
It'll sit on 70, trail ride well and is about the same weight as my rally.
The shock was lowered so it fits me.
Loads of go, Brembo brakes, Ohlins shock, it's a great bike, lighter than most of bikes here with 45bhp
Suzuki and Yamaha should remake bikes like the DR650, XT660 etc for the present day with fi, abs etc but sadly they dont.
No demos available for the CF Moto, and my nearest dealer won't have any until next May! I work in engineering and have seen the poor quality of Chinese parts, and the lead times are ridiculous.
My dealer wants a no refundable deposit on a bike I can't even see let alone test, no way I'll wait for them to come to me
Excellent comparison video! As an old guy returning to riding after 50 years (!) I started with a Honda Navi to reacquaint, moved up to a 310GS and was dissatisfied with the low-end torque and finally settled on Goldilocks: the Himalayan 411. It is gentle, planted, superb low -end torque, great in the gravel, superb on twisties and okay on the highway. Never satisfied, are we? Now I'm intrigued with the 450MT. Some may ask why not a Himmy 450. My answer: it's not really a Himalayan; too heavy, top heavy, tank to wide to squeeze your knees around and it's UGLY.
Very nice video. I have had a CRF 250 Rally, then a KTM 390 Adventure and currently a CRF300L (which I prefer to the rally). I have to admit I am very intrigued by the MT450.
Great comparison! I appreciate you adding the CCM to the mix. As you noted, it represents bikes like the Kove and the PR7 versus the CFMoto MT. As a Kove owner, I agree with your reasoning - a good rider will get a lot more out of the Kove than the CF Moto MT. Unfortunately, I'm not that talented, and would probably be better off with the CF Moto. Tubeless tires! Lower seat! Too bad my wife won't okay another bike purchase. I'll meddle along. My hope is to one day sign up for one of your tours. Too bad Devon is so far from my Seattle home.
Excellent comparo and advice! I'd also be interested in hearing about
your maintenance experience with the CFmoto - parts/service, reliability, etc.
Too early to say. Only 500 miles on it. I suspect parts will be as available as those for KTM (probably). Also lots of direct from China options online (Uncle Wang etc)
Sweet Lamb had 2 ktm 390s I believe but ktm is heavily pushing the 890 adv. I own a 390 adv. My views is that the paintwork is thin as it easily scratches, however i have had a constant giggle every time i have rode it on road and off road. The stance is a bit strange when standing up. The kick stand makes it stand rather upright and I always feel like its going to fall over. Im planning to use it for the next few years to get into rally racing as its the bike i own. Maybe if I do more longer trips, i might go up in size but im slightly put off by the weight and power of the larger bikes when it comes to off road and trail riding. That and the larger bikes cost more to buy and replace parts if you fall over which im expecting to have as a novice off road rider.
Yes I really think and believe that triumph could build a very good road endurance motorcycle 🏍️ with this engine of triumph you have showed us. And also the enfield Himalayan as well ! It’s a shame that they could crack it right now!
Fantastic video. Great collection. Proof that 1 bike cant do it all. But some get very close.
Had a baby gs but found out am more on the road not trails ,now have a Honda cb 500 x great wee bike
fantastic video Nathan, tested the cfmoto 450mt, it is the unicorn we have been waiting for, just waiting on Mansells here in Jersey to get their hands on some now, hopefully they will have two around Oct/Nov, my name is already down for one, cash is ready and waiting
Well done Nathan spot on as usual, there's more capable Bikes coming to the market in this class, yet not out of Japan.
Beta Alp something in the mix..!
At 65+ and the 70's Kawasaki was my preferred.. last a 81 KE175.. had not it been Life's new commitments..!
I'd of liked to made this return with Kawi KLX250/300.. sadly dropped from UK Market..
How come the RE 411 ticked all the boxes.. other than, but time/fitness wise, weight is not such an issue.. I'll not be making a change.
How you view CF Moto supply and delay on not having Bikes being delivered, could likewise parts/spares be as limited..!
this guy knows his stuff
Excellent opinionated review. I have a BMW 650GS Sertao, which is good for long distances here in Australia and good off road manners. Interestingly the wet weight is on par or slightly less than the RE 450 and CF MOTO 450. Cheers.
Hi im giving you a nickname"HAMMER" because you nail it every time......
Haha. MC Hammer like my dance moves
Such a good video! Thank you for sharing your insights. Wish you could do the same for the more road-focused adventure bikes too
Excellent vid mate. Safe rides!
Thanks Caldaemon
Great review Nathan...Thanks for the information....
Great analysis. I’ll give the CF Moto a year to get some reliability info. In the meantime, looking at tubeless wheels for the 411 which I really enjoy.
Excellent review! If and only if Kawasaki would upgrade the Versys 300X to a 500x… then we’d have a stiff competition! What are your thoughts?
Yeah been looking at picking up a second hand versys. Decent bikes. Not magnificent but with updates they could have been real contenders
Hi Nathan I have the new Himalayn as you say it feels a bit top heavy off the side stand but when you have 50mm block of wood under it the lean looks correct and it feels fine. I am thinking about lowering the bike ( I can flat foot it seated ) I see That Coperb in conjunction with Rally Raid are making a lowering link for the rear suspension. Sliding the forks up in the yokes in conjunction with the lowering link could make footing easier on the lanes. But then the centre stand will be too long. I have pottered around the back lane on Eco mode and I thought it made the motor feels a bit smoother.
RE seem to be working on a side stand as well. They have changed it on the new Guerilla.
It might be available in the near future.