It is very refreshing to see a reviewer who is honest about their biases and genuinely takes them into account. As a viewer, it makes it easier to make up your own mind as you're not wondering if there is some hidden bias in there.
Great review. I haven’t tested them but I’d go with the Himmy. It has “character”. It’s its own bike, does not want to be any other bike. It’s not a baby anything. It’s a Himmy. Classic. Torquey. Authentic. Round the world adventure. 20 or 30 years from now, nobody will remember the CF. The Himmy will be a classic. I think it will become a part of motorcycle history.
Not that I'm biased having just taken delivery of my Himmy 450 but ... having ridden both on road (Himmy off road too, but CFMoto weren't letting us off road at the ABR). Himmy 450 absolutely rocks. I was able to order, and take delivery, in three weeks. Which was awesome.
Great to hear that you are torn between the two bikes. We are too! The Aussies appear to be seduced by the Rally look of the CFMOTO but in terms of overall performance both are very capable. Accurate sales data from New Zealand gives the win of popularity to the CFMOTO, which is also the top selling motorcycle. Himi is slightly behind. Meanwhile the KTM390 hits Australia in the late first quarter 2025, well after the Himi and CFMOTO have consolidated their sales and hopefully proving their reliability. Although Indian Bajaj built the Kato 390 definitely has more sophisticated engine management & traction control than Himi or CFMOTO. Combine that with what appears to be higher quality suspension and we're guessing $2000 AU more. Himi and CFMOTO in Aussie under $10 K AU. We guess little Kato $11,990 AU. Amazing times for small, useable, accessible, reasonably priced adventure! And then there's the little Beemer! See you at ABR 25! cheers Dave
@@iangriffiths9930 So happy they've invited us back. Nugget is coming with me. Chris was a great interviewer. Just don't ask him to repeat the story about the Suzuki DR400 and what Nugget thinks of it :)
Kawasaki set to get something out soon, although only teased at EICMA. I'm guessing Ninja 500 powered Versys-X. If only Yamaha would produce a barking twin 450cc and give us a T4 Tenere... If only Suzuki would get a 450cc twin and give us a V-Strom 450DE...
The 390 is not that popular among Indian offroaders here. They are mostly brought by tourers who want something capable to go through the rough rural roads in India. Reason is less amount of low end torque and higher / sharper power delivery at the top end. The thing just spins up the rear tyre rather than climb hills like the Himi does. We have a 200cc bike called xpulse, even that one is better offroad than the 390 adv.
I am not biased towards himmy but the fact that re is nailing the basics which is engine, suspension, better off roading capabilities. This shows that RE is made with serious thought. Yes the looks are subjective but it has a legacy of more then 120 years and it is distinguishable between other off roaders. As it was clear in the video that if you go offroading with the RE low end torque is much better then cf moto. And these bikes will be bought by beginners. So for those people RE is a better choice, as a whole package. Although cfmoto is a great bike. BUT AFTER THIS REVIEW MY PICK IS HIMMY.
This was amazing Chris--some of the best-articulated insights on the subtle differences between these two bikes. The way you teased all these characteristics apart for each bike was fantastic and unique to this video, and I've watched them all. Totally agree that they pretty much achieve the same thing in different ways. I also just picked the Himmy for having a soft spot for it, but I'll admit I rode the 450MT again off-road recently and felt a twinge of regret, hehe.
the thing that I've learned above all by watching you rip around on these bikes - I'll be fine on either bike. You've shown me that either one will do the off roading I want to do. I just need to decide which one I like more and am more comfortable on. I appreciate ya man. There are other reviews that go over specs but you're the only one I see riding like a hooligan and I love it. That Himalayan video blew me away. I had no idea that bike was capable of that much abuse.
was expecting a dry over the top overview. but this was in-depth and well articulated explanation of such minute differences in each bike. Great job Chris. 👏
A great review. I'm at present have my eye on a new Himalayan for next year. Unashamedly, I am a Boomer rider, cut my pegs in the ground on a Matchless 350cc , open clutch, no brakes, grass track specimen at 14 years of age in 1968....looking forward to doing next year safely. Ride free brothers and sisters, I hope to still be with you...Stew
Great review Chris, no bullshit or regurgitating of factory specs to fill up time and space, riding is all about feel and you paint an accurate picture for us to understand which bike we might prefer…I love to see a full on head to head of all the Chinese mid sized adventure bikes as they all seem to promise everything we could want.
So basically everything you don't like about Himalayan 450 can be upgraded cheaply as it is not Engine or suspension related but CFMOTO upgrades would be more expensive.
Brilliant as usual Chris. Your judgment and point of view when it comes to adventure and off road riding it´s always accurate and honest. We dont even need to talk about your riding skills and experience of course, but its your feedback that comes out crystal clear when its about to speak the truth of the two wheels. Im in love with both bikes, but its gonna be the Himi for me due to the fact that in my country came out fairly cheaper than the 450MT and RE has a stronger presence than CF here when it comes post-sale service. And you gotta love the timeless look of the Himi on those black and gold colors. Im glad I could make that choice by hearing who I think its the better and most honest moto reviewer.
Most people can't afford £20k trail/tourer bikes, most people can afford one of these, that has to be a good thing. Always have to listen to Chris because he's a better rider than all of us !
*Most. Some of us have also been riding our whole life on everything from trials bikes to supersports... It is nice getting an opinion from someone who can clearly find the weaknesses in a machine 😁
I tried a MT450 last week after your last review. I loved it and have one on order. The only downside side for the CFMOTO there aren’t any available until Feb/March next year.
It definitely stands out and walks it’s own line. Remember it’s one of the few bikes where the entirety of the bike was built to travel. The CF like a lot of ADV bikes take parts, like the engine from elsewhere in the range. It shows - the CF engine revs stupidly high between 85-100kph, because it’s a small capacity street engine. The Himi has more go in the top end, and the revs are lower. I know this as I’ve test ridden both.
Wow, Chris really knocked it out of the park with this one. His level of expertise and attention to detail is seriously impressive. He didn’t just skim the surface-he really put both bikes through their paces in real-world conditions, and you can tell he's coming from a place of genuine experience. Thank you, Chris, for putting in the time and effort to give us such a thorough, honest, and engaging review. It’s rare to see a reviewer who goes into this much detail while keeping it real, and I’m definitely looking forward to more of your reviews in the future! Keep up the great work! 👏
Really good video. Pretty much what I felt about the 2 although it was a quick ride for me in comparison. Himalayan will be a safer buy against the CF brand which is in early days and more unstable at the moment as a brand.
On Highways you can not take 450mt at highspeeds cause it does not have front weight which makes bike wobble at greater speed but himalayn 450 has that front weight so can take 160 kmh stably
I can bet on Himmys engine durablity ....RE is known for clean engines manufacturing ..moreover single piston will be easy to maintain and on your pocket in longterm then twin cyl CF..which is new in the game
Yet another absolutely fantastic, in-depth, and engaging review from Chris! I do think an on-road, touring, city, and scratching comparison would be valuable.
I just bought the MT. I read the manual : suspensions factory setting are for road ride ! I have a very different sensation with another setting. More on the rear shock if you release all the cliks. Rear shock is free and it's cool : no hard bounce. You adjust a little the preload for a little more presence. For the fork release 6 clicks for comp and T. it's more smooth and good even if you rede fast. Finally adjust the tyre pressure 1.4 bar is a good compromise for me. With that : you haven't the same bike.
450MT has 4 years warranty in the UK, and 8 years breakdown/recovery, as long as you keep it serviced at a CFMoto dealer. I put in an order on the Monday after the ABR festival at the end of June, and picked it up on Friday. My first adventure bike..... and I love it.
The CFMOTO 450mt comes with a standard 2-year factory warranty. This warranty typically covers defects in material or workmanship and provides free repair or replacement for any parts found to be faulty under normal use. However, the warranty doesn't cover damage caused by misuse, neglect, or modifications. The coverage includes: - 2 years of warranty on the motorcycle from the date of purchase. - 1-year warranty on electrical components(in some regions, this may vary). - Roadside assistance for a limited period, often during the first year (check with the dealer for specifics). It's important to keep in mind that regular maintenance, like oil changes and servicing, must be performed at an authorized service center to keep the warranty valid. CFMOTO dealerships typically offer service and warranty extensions depending on the region, so it's always a good idea to verify the exact terms with your local dealer.
... for the 450MT there is a software update available to make throttle control smoother in low gears, costs 45€ in Germany, but it works very well ...
I own a cb500x but would like something a little bit more off-roady. And been looking at these two bikes. Still no CF Moto in the states. However, a dealership had a Himalayan 450. I was shocked how heavy it was getting it off the side stand. It felt like an Africa twin. Now I'm kind of leading towards getting a slightly used dr650
Great review of both bikes. I'm planning to purchase the RE Himalayan 450 in the tubeless version. I'm not a fan of anything from China and try to buy China when a good alternative is available. I'm glad to see both bikes because they have put the other brands on notice.
Hopefully the new BMW F450GS will stir up that puddle further. Can't wait what Chris has to say about that one after a day riding it. It could be the one I'm waiting for.
Great review Chris. Although we don't have CF Moto in our country due to the trade restrictions, I loved the fact that globally there are so many new options for the lower/mid ADV space. Waiting for the BMW GS 450 though. Hopefully it will be cheap here and in budget, since it will be manufactured here
Nice review, I wonder which marque will provide best support, spares, service here in Australia? That might be another differentiator, from this review, both bikes would make me happy.
I second the refreshing comment, thx for stating your expectations. I want/need off road capable ADV bike. For me, there are no other choices, my Honda Rally 300, at 155kg is awesome in dirt ($1500 in suspensionmods), but good up to 90-100 kmh. There is only big stuff from Honda. Nothing from the other big in sub 200 kgs. KTM, the new 390 ADV R, yes but only with full 5 years/50 000 km warranty.......Kove 450, too off road......I have 2 Royals.......they are just bit crude, bit too old fashion, all that chunkiness all around the bike. So it's the MT450, unbelievable overall package for unbelievable price. The big issues: The off idle fueling is terrible. ECU tune is a must. The short upper gearing, 7500 rpm (on 8500 red line) at 130 kmh is a big miss. The 15t sprocket helps a bit......but it's a compromise in dirt. For my 75kg frame, the front springs are bit too stiff. Thx for nice vid.
Riding a Himalayan 411 for more than 4 years, it has lots of problems in long ride ( coneset, handle wobbling, suspension breakup, coil relays, chain spockret problems etc). Riding Himalayan 450 for 3 months of my friend's, it's a good machine but, has quality issues like handle bends easily after hitting a Scorpio in the side door and front protection grill also broke off. Have not seen CFmoto till now, only on videos and hope it has no issues such as the Himalayan
Great video! Where I am it’s a solid 1K less for the CF vs the Royal Enfield… That’s a fair bit! The Himalayan actually is priced head to head here with the KTM 390 Adv… I am waiting for the new Kawasaki and KTM but otherwise CF would get my pick just for the package for the price.
Probably one of the best reviews to date on the two bikes. After riding both I preferred the Himis power delivery for my style of riding. The CF moto felt more nimble but the power delivery was snatchy in my opinion and experience level.
Nice bikes. If you aren’t some extreme backcountry traveler, tubeless tires are MUCH easier to contend with when you get a flat. The fact that so many manufactures don’t provide tubeless wheels is ridiculous. I simply refuse to buy a bike equipped with the type of wheels that I DONT want. 🤷
So what? My road bike has tubeless and a subscription to roadside rescue, all my off-road orientated bikes run tubes. Better choice of rubber, can run lower pressures and easy to repair.
CF moto is difficult to get due to limited number of dealers, long waiting periods and they seem to have no demo models, so no test rides before committing. As opposed to RE, having many dealerships with plenty of available stocks. Wonder how well CF moto would do with warranty issues...
the more I watch the more I am liking your stuff, when you consider one is a twin and one a single and yet they come that close in your eyes at least it says what a good package the CF is, not ridden one but the popularity they have gained with next to no promo razmataz or even demo's it really is something a bit special I think. The RE is quite clever too rode one on the road only and it was good like the practicalities of it but struggle with the oldie styling which is unfair but still a fact. Unless the shit hits the fan in the geopolitics or world economics the supposed mainstream brands are in trouble and its partly their own fault. good work keep it up.
EXACTLY!!! Thank you for your astute observation, @bikenavbm1229; for me, a TWIN vs a SINGLE is the biggest difference as I contemplate a more competent bike for my riding preference: overlanding. I completely discounted a single for my next bike. Tho I love my 250 Honda Rally with 47,ooo miles and the goal of riding the contiguous states of America, the buzziness at highway speeds and relatively top-heaviness of the bike fully loaded offroad is beginning to present issues as my knees age. I have obsessed over the CF MOTO (aka Ibex for the North American market), and not once considering the Himi...until I sat on one by happenstance. On paper, the Ibex seemed to tick all the boxes for me...but it has not arrived in my market. I was at a moto event recently so, out of curiosity, I sat on the Himalayan...IT FIT ME SO WELL!!! I felt like I was sitting IN it rather than ON it. Then I felt rather dumb because in a former life I used to sell motos for a living and would always tell new riders to try to dismiss what kind of bike loved ones recommend or choosing solely by style or specs or brand, and for me specifically, Twin vs Single. New riders do not necessarily know what kind of rider they will become: cruiser, racer, overlander. So I always suggested they close their eyes when sitting on a variety of bikes, move it back and forth, up and back, lean it as far as comfortable...basically FEEL the bike rather than think about it. And take it for a test ride, if possible. Foolish me, even as an experienced rider of 20+ years, I did not follow my own advice!!! This review, far more than any other comparison of the two bikes, is a game changer and opened my eyes. Though I still anxiously await the arrival of the Ibex, I won't be swayed merely by beautiful styling, marketing, others' reviews, accessories, engine or price: I will wait for the Ibex, test ride both bikes side-by-side, and make the informed decision about which bike works best for ME!!! Thanks for an informative review AND some relevant observations from other readers. Cheers, y'all. Kat
Would love to demo both.. They both look nice. IM just mid to beginner, currently on a Kaw versys x300. Love it to actually, but a bit buzzey. Nice honest review I thought.
Extremely accurate observations, you noticed what many others missed. The RE is made with a hammer. Everything about it is crude, even the screen is unreadable and ugly. But in the field, it brings a lot of joy. Like you, I don’t understand why there are those plates rubbing against my legs when standing. The CF looks much better, but the magic disappears when you look closely. Both bikes have very weak engines. They’re enough for off-road, but on the road, it’s a struggle - you have to constantly shift gears. A 500-550cc would be helpful.
I’m just in the process of getting ready to advertise my 1150gsa as I’ve got a chronic shoulder injury (ex figure skater) total gutter but need to move onto something light an been considering whether to get another Nx500 just bought one for my dad or a RE or the new BMW 450GS it’s great to see some bikes coming out in this category. I had a really bad experience with the RE 411 ended up rejected at 500 miles an they couldn’t get the bits to fix it an the bits they previously fitted failed in 30 mins 🙃n it had safety issues. Rejected two 390s as well 147 an 269 miles really a pain of an experience again riddled with issues Ktm were no help dealer did right thing 37 other bikes from the Japanese companies never an issue. I’d love to see a return to cable throttles a the feel that gives. The problem as well is residual I was able to sell my 2020 used t7 within the first 3 months to buy my dad the nx500 an only lost £800 quid on trade in. Parts availability and reliability are big things time will tell on without getting into politics and human rights. Very balanced review. It’s interesting to see a review from another perspective a quality review as always. Itd be interesting to see some long distance road reviews as that’s where these bikes also need to really excel as that’s where most of us also need to use our bikes :)
I think that's quiet accurate, but not to a degree that matters. While the Himi is definitely designed to be a pack mule, while the CF Moto is supposed to be all about sports, the CF Moto ends up just being marginally more sporty than the Himi. Like really REALLY marginally better, had seen a comparison by 3 different riders in an enduro race and the Moto was about 1 to 3 % faster... at the cost of a bit of utility and fuel consumption... so yeah...
Super interesting! I've been waiting for this. When you mention the rider position, could you please tell your height, as this matters a lot. If I'm not mistaken the R1300GS and the Ténéré have their handlebars even higher above the pegs than the CFMoto 450MT, which you said you found too high (which makes perfect sense for when actually sending it).
There is already some bikes in this segment in the past like Suzuki drz400 but the royal Enfield and cf moto change the game, now everyone wnats to the part of the party.
Suzuki just relaunched the DRZ-400S and SM as the DRZ-4S and SM. Essentially the same engine but with injection and modern components. Frame looks identical as well. Suspension is different. Not sure if the SM comes on Excel rims as it did before.
Considering recent events, I'm not confident a Chinese made bike is going to remain affordable and have affordable parts in the US... It sounds like Himalayan would be better for me just starting to go off road though anyway. There is no way I would be attacking terrain with that level of confidence...
I'm in the same spot, REH, or CFMoto. But something else has popped up for me. AJP PR7. I know it's a complete different bike, but I'd like to hear what you think. The PR7 is a dirt bike that I would street legal. From what I can learn it is fairly comfortable for tarmac and more than capable off-road.
A short history of Himalayan is in India people used to have a dream of driving RE Classic 350 to Himalayas where as it never built for it, so from the past 15 years or so RE has started RnD on an adventure bike which can do both off-road and highway cruising and came up with Himalayan 411 which had plenty of issues in the beginning but slowly and steadily RE sorted the issues and this is still second gen. Before Hero XPlulse in India Himalayan was the most affordable, made in India adventure bike which is also good in cruising on highways. KTM was there but it got very bad reputation in the people because of idiots buying it to show off. There is still a long way to go for Himalayan to match with the premium off-road bikes.
Chris, what if you had a few thousand pounds more to spend. Is there anything evenly remotely better - lighter, easier to live with, better suspended ?
For the same $6000 USD you can get a Moto Morini 650 twin cylinder bike. Electronic package is similar to the CF Moto. if you could do a comparison of that to the CF Moto I think many people would be interested since they are the same price point and both have a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. I know 2 people who own the CF Moto and both are very happy. I own the Moto Morini 650 and definitely feel for the money it is a better choice for 50/50 riding
I rode these two back to back with Nathan at dorothysspeedshop on Thursday and agree with you on all points! I found the Himalayan better on the super nadgery back roads due to its supple suspension and torquey engine, but the cf moto on faster roads for it composure and travel bike protection.
I rode Nathan’s bikes about 6 weeks ago, so probably did a lot of the same back roads that you did. I thought the Himi was good, but i instantly felt a connection with the CF Moto, it felt comfy, great riding position, great performance/handling/brakes for the roads we did, loved it (although many on the day preferred the Himi), as a side note, i did the road over the top of Exmoor on Nathan’s Triumph 400 X, which i appreciate is a very different bike, but i was grinning ear to ear, that bike on that road was brilliant!
@@crimpyjugs5680 Cheers for the mention gents. Hope you had a good day with me and Dorothy. For what it's worth, I ran a survey the other week with three days of 6 riders on each. Final ranking was: 1. CF Moto 450 MT 2. Triumph 400X 3. Rieju 500 Aventura 4. Himalayan 450. 5. Voge 300 Rally.
now, in this EICMA event, BMW Motorrad is launch a concept 450cc segment Adventure bike called F450 GS. In 2025 they unveiled it in the world market to reival with succeded story of CFMOTO 450MT and Royal Enfield Himalayan 450.
Anyone remember when ktm said a 450 twin was in the oven, CF moto make the 790/890 ktm engine, suddenly ktm says no longer 450 twin and voila CF moto already had the thing half way cooked; i really think the 450 mt would share many things with that ktm 450 that never was. Said that the Himy is gorgeous and unique, gen1 was like taken from a 60’s James Bond movie, a truly futuristic from that era, the 450 is a proper retro futuristic, like a natural of road evolution of a classic custom
As per off-road prospective.... I will prefer himi 450 with simply minimalistic design & no too much nonsense of electronic & timeless design.... But CF moto look like there is so much going on with its complexity of electronics & design language ....!!!!
One most important thing is cfmoto consumes far more fuel( dual cylinder) than himi…….so for long touring and adventure……i prefer himi……without worry of fuel refill.
I do not know why people keep referring to these as beginner bikes. They are just in a smaller displacement segment. In the US a beginner can buy a bike of any size after they get a license. Trying to judge a Motorcycle riders experience level by the cc’s they are sitting on Makes no sense at all.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
It is very refreshing to see a reviewer who is honest about their biases and genuinely takes them into account. As a viewer, it makes it easier to make up your own mind as you're not wondering if there is some hidden bias in there.
Great review. I haven’t tested them but I’d go with the Himmy. It has “character”. It’s its own bike, does not want to be any other bike. It’s not a baby anything. It’s a Himmy. Classic. Torquey. Authentic. Round the world adventure. 20 or 30 years from now, nobody will remember the CF. The Himmy will be a classic. I think it will become a part of motorcycle history.
Not that I'm biased having just taken delivery of my Himmy 450 but ... having ridden both on road (Himmy off road too, but CFMoto weren't letting us off road at the ABR). Himmy 450 absolutely rocks. I was able to order, and take delivery, in three weeks. Which was awesome.
ummm where you live? you cant hear..LOL..
@@bwnco He's deaf?
Great to hear that you are torn between the two bikes. We are too! The Aussies appear to be seduced by the Rally look of the CFMOTO but in terms of overall performance both are very capable. Accurate sales data from New Zealand gives the win of popularity to the CFMOTO, which is also the top selling motorcycle. Himi is slightly behind. Meanwhile the KTM390 hits Australia in the late first quarter 2025, well after the Himi and CFMOTO have consolidated their sales and hopefully proving their reliability. Although Indian Bajaj built the Kato 390 definitely has more sophisticated engine management & traction control than Himi or CFMOTO. Combine that with what appears to be higher quality suspension and we're guessing $2000 AU more. Himi and CFMOTO in Aussie under $10 K AU. We guess little Kato $11,990 AU. Amazing times for small, useable, accessible, reasonably priced adventure! And then there's the little Beemer! See you at ABR 25! cheers Dave
Had a quick chat to you at this years ABR, super happy you are coming back over 👍
@@iangriffiths9930 So happy they've invited us back. Nugget is coming with me. Chris was a great interviewer. Just don't ask him to repeat the story about the Suzuki DR400 and what Nugget thinks of it :)
Kawasaki set to get something out soon, although only teased at EICMA. I'm guessing Ninja 500 powered Versys-X.
If only Yamaha would produce a barking twin 450cc and give us a T4 Tenere...
If only Suzuki would get a 450cc twin and give us a V-Strom 450DE...
The 390 is not that popular among Indian offroaders here. They are mostly brought by tourers who want something capable to go through the rough rural roads in India. Reason is less amount of low end torque and higher / sharper power delivery at the top end. The thing just spins up the rear tyre rather than climb hills like the Himi does. We have a 200cc bike called xpulse, even that one is better offroad than the 390 adv.
@@rd7002 the new engine has more capacity and possibly different power and torque characteristics…fingers crossed 👍
I am not biased towards himmy but the fact that re is nailing the basics which is engine, suspension, better off roading capabilities. This shows that RE is made with serious thought. Yes the looks are subjective but it has a legacy of more then 120 years and it is distinguishable between other off roaders.
As it was clear in the video that if you go offroading with the RE low end torque is much better then cf moto.
And these bikes will be bought by beginners. So for those people RE is a better choice, as a whole package.
Although cfmoto is a great bike.
BUT AFTER THIS REVIEW MY PICK IS HIMMY.
Test rode both. Bought a Himi! Lower revs at higher KPH, preferred the gearbox, and stock ergos.
Conclusion: Both are great bikes and will put huge smiles on your faces. You'll be more than happy on either one.
450 Himi owner, awesome unbiased content. This is why you are my favorite reviewer
Cheers
This was amazing Chris--some of the best-articulated insights on the subtle differences between these two bikes. The way you teased all these characteristics apart for each bike was fantastic and unique to this video, and I've watched them all. Totally agree that they pretty much achieve the same thing in different ways. I also just picked the Himmy for having a soft spot for it, but I'll admit I rode the 450MT again off-road recently and felt a twinge of regret, hehe.
the thing that I've learned above all by watching you rip around on these bikes - I'll be fine on either bike. You've shown me that either one will do the off roading I want to do. I just need to decide which one I like more and am more comfortable on. I appreciate ya man. There are other reviews that go over specs but you're the only one I see riding like a hooligan and I love it.
That Himalayan video blew me away. I had no idea that bike was capable of that much abuse.
was expecting a dry over the top overview. but this was in-depth and well articulated explanation of such minute differences in each bike.
Great job Chris.
👏
Agree. found Bike WOrld and Chris last month only. Love his reviews
A great review. I'm at present have my eye on a new Himalayan for next year. Unashamedly, I am a Boomer rider, cut my pegs in the ground on a Matchless 350cc , open clutch, no brakes, grass track specimen at 14 years of age in 1968....looking forward to doing next year safely. Ride free brothers and sisters, I hope to still be with you...Stew
Great review Chris, no bullshit or regurgitating of factory specs to fill up time and space, riding is all about feel and you paint an accurate picture for us to understand which bike we might prefer…I love to see a full on head to head of all the Chinese mid sized adventure bikes as they all seem to promise everything we could want.
So basically everything you don't like about Himalayan 450 can be upgraded cheaply as it is not Engine or suspension related but CFMOTO upgrades would be more expensive.
they booth have good suspension, tires,brakes...
Brilliant as usual Chris. Your judgment and point of view when it comes to adventure and off road riding it´s always accurate and honest. We dont even need to talk about your riding skills and experience of course, but its your feedback that comes out crystal clear when its about to speak the truth of the two wheels. Im in love with both bikes, but its gonna be the Himi for me due to the fact that in my country came out fairly cheaper than the 450MT and RE has a stronger presence than CF here when it comes post-sale service. And you gotta love the timeless look of the Himi on those black and gold colors. Im glad I could make that choice by hearing who I think its the better and most honest moto reviewer.
Most people can't afford £20k trail/tourer bikes, most people can afford one of these, that has to be a good thing. Always have to listen to Chris because he's a better rider than all of us !
Makes you wonder why triumph doesn't have a 400 tiger and get some of the market
*Most.
Some of us have also been riding our whole life on everything from trials bikes to supersports... It is nice getting an opinion from someone who can clearly find the weaknesses in a machine 😁
@@logangodofcandy i think they gonna release it soon as they have a 400 engine now from scrambler 400
Thanks for this honest review. I have a Himmy 411 and love it too. So, The next thing I'm buying is more RE shares on the local stock exchange!
I like the features and power in 450MT but the Hima 450 design is simply gorgeous in my opinion^^
I tried a MT450 last week after your last review. I loved it and have one on order. The only downside side for the CFMOTO there aren’t any available until Feb/March next year.
in my view and over all knowledge of 20 years + riding in Nepal. Cf moto is best on all category than Re
Himalayan has timeless retro design and charm of its own in market full of insecty , cyclopsy , alien etc. design motorcycles 😅😅😅
Bs
@@kentvicente2467nope. He's right. You're wrong.
It definitely stands out and walks it’s own line. Remember it’s one of the few bikes where the entirety of the bike was built to travel. The CF like a lot of ADV bikes take parts, like the engine from elsewhere in the range. It shows - the CF engine revs stupidly high between 85-100kph, because it’s a small capacity street engine. The Himi has more go in the top end, and the revs are lower. I know this as I’ve test ridden both.
@@martyn_gThe 15 teeth sprocket solve this be the CF.The CF motor is smoother then the himi
You forgot to add clueless clown fan base of RE
Wow, Chris really knocked it out of the park with this one. His level of expertise and attention to detail is seriously impressive. He didn’t just skim the surface-he really put both bikes through their paces in real-world conditions, and you can tell he's coming from a place of genuine experience.
Thank you, Chris, for putting in the time and effort to give us such a thorough, honest, and engaging review. It’s rare to see a reviewer who goes into this much detail while keeping it real, and I’m definitely looking forward to more of your reviews in the future! Keep up the great work! 👏
Thanks, lots more coming!
You are the best moto reviewer out there Chris...well done!
Yes, at least he can ride! So sick of 'reviewers' who baulk at a puddle on their big GS's. You know who I'm talking about!
There are a few!
Why do all Enfield's weigh so much? I removed 23 kg from my interceptor 650 and it still weighs nearly 200 kgs. Preposterous!
Because all of the parts are metal...@@BIGGIEsmalls13
Too honest man.. Both are great bikes! thanks! Great channel (Argentina)
Cheers!
Really good video. Pretty much what I felt about the 2 although it was a quick ride for me in comparison.
Himalayan will be a safer buy against the CF brand which is in early days and more unstable at the moment as a brand.
On Highways you can not take 450mt at highspeeds cause it does not have front weight which makes bike wobble at greater speed but himalayn 450 has that front weight so can take 160 kmh stably
It's hard not to compare with 450mt nowadays... Every 400 has to go thru 450mt comparison. They're not a gold standard, but they set the bar right...
I am thinking Himmy is the right choice for me.. Planning to make it my next bike...
I can bet on Himmys engine durablity ....RE is known for clean engines manufacturing ..moreover single piston will be easy to maintain and on your pocket in longterm then twin cyl CF..which is new in the game
Yet another absolutely fantastic, in-depth, and engaging review from Chris!
I do think an on-road, touring, city, and scratching comparison would be valuable.
Many others do that. Chris is the only one sending these bikes in the terrain!
@stefanhansen5882 True, but they're not Chris.😍
@@ewganhoff Surely not.
Himalayan has a unique look. When you see her you know immediately this is Himalayan. The cf is like small clone of tenere
Great review, I've got a Himi myself but if I woke up tomorrow to find a CF Moto in the garage, I wouldn't be upset 😊
I just bought the MT. I read the manual : suspensions factory setting are for road ride ! I have a very different sensation with another setting. More on the rear shock if you release all the cliks. Rear shock is free and it's cool : no hard bounce. You adjust a little the preload for a little more presence. For the fork release 6 clicks for comp and T. it's more smooth and good even if you rede fast. Finally adjust the tyre pressure 1.4 bar is a good compromise for me. With that : you haven't the same bike.
Maybe better warranty on the Himmy? In the US, three year UNLIMITED miles, which is unheard of.
450MT has 4 years warranty in the UK, and 8 years breakdown/recovery, as long as you keep it serviced at a CFMoto dealer.
I put in an order on the Monday after the ABR festival at the end of June, and picked it up on Friday. My first adventure bike..... and I love it.
The CFMOTO 450mt comes with a standard 2-year factory warranty. This warranty typically covers defects in material or workmanship and provides free repair or replacement for any parts found to be faulty under normal use. However, the warranty doesn't cover damage caused by misuse, neglect, or modifications.
The coverage includes:
- 2 years of warranty on the motorcycle from the date of purchase.
- 1-year warranty on electrical components(in some regions, this may vary).
- Roadside assistance for a limited period, often during the first year (check with the dealer for specifics).
It's important to keep in mind that regular maintenance, like oil changes and servicing, must be performed at an authorized service center to keep the warranty valid. CFMOTO dealerships typically offer service and warranty extensions depending on the region, so it's always a good idea to verify the exact terms with your local dealer.
... for the 450MT there is a software update available to make throttle control smoother in low gears, costs 45€ in Germany, but it works very well ...
You have to pay for it?
I own a cb500x but would like something a little bit more off-roady. And been looking at these two bikes. Still no CF Moto in the states. However, a dealership had a Himalayan 450. I was shocked how heavy it was getting it off the side stand. It felt like an Africa twin. Now I'm kind of leading towards getting a slightly used dr650
RE is working on a new side stand to sort that out
@@adityan3208nope. RE is heavy for an adventure bike. Because they still use a lot of metal because it's a RE. Some people like it some don't.
Super professional & fair comparison considering your input into one of the bikes gestation, good on you Chris.
Great review of both bikes. I'm planning to purchase the RE Himalayan 450 in the tubeless version. I'm not a fan of anything from China and try to buy China when a good alternative is available. I'm glad to see both bikes because they have put the other brands on notice.
A nice, honest review. Shown by your admission of being more familiar with the himmy at the end.
I like the comparison between the two bikes. Great channel.
Thanks!
Hopefully the new BMW F450GS will stir up that puddle further. Can't wait what Chris has to say about that one after a day riding it. It could be the one I'm waiting for.
Chris this is one we have been waiting for, the best 450 light off-roader ❤❤❤.
Great video keep it up 🤟💪💪🤟
"It doesn't look like a cheap bike, but it does look like a Royal Enfield" 😂
The same Royal Enfield built in the UK can reach Triumph prices.
All about budget and looks, hard to go wrong with either (or even others)
Great review Chris. Although we don't have CF Moto in our country due to the trade restrictions, I loved the fact that globally there are so many new options for the lower/mid ADV space.
Waiting for the BMW GS 450 though. Hopefully it will be cheap here and in budget, since it will be manufactured here
Nice review, I wonder which marque will provide best support, spares, service here in Australia? That might be another differentiator, from this review, both bikes would make me happy.
If I got a Himi 450 I would get rid of those awful tank guards and fit an Acerbis 23L plastic tank then it’s pretty much sorted
Yep!!
I second the refreshing comment, thx for stating your expectations. I want/need off road capable ADV bike. For me, there are no other choices, my Honda Rally 300, at 155kg is awesome in dirt ($1500 in suspensionmods), but good up to 90-100 kmh. There is only big stuff from Honda. Nothing from the other big in sub 200 kgs. KTM, the new 390 ADV R, yes but only with full 5 years/50 000 km warranty.......Kove 450, too off road......I have 2 Royals.......they are just bit crude, bit too old fashion, all that chunkiness all around the bike. So it's the MT450, unbelievable overall package for unbelievable price. The big issues:
The off idle fueling is terrible. ECU tune is a must.
The short upper gearing, 7500 rpm (on 8500 red line) at 130 kmh is a big miss. The 15t sprocket helps a bit......but it's a compromise in dirt.
For my 75kg frame, the front springs are bit too stiff.
Thx for nice vid.
VERY NICE REVIEW, THX! 😉
A fair review with an honest assessment, that I trust. 🤙🏻
Metal vs plastic, RE has legacy.
Riding a Himalayan 411 for more than 4 years, it has lots of problems in long ride ( coneset, handle wobbling, suspension breakup, coil relays, chain spockret problems etc). Riding Himalayan 450 for 3 months of my friend's, it's a good machine but, has quality issues like handle bends easily after hitting a Scorpio in the side door and front protection grill also broke off. Have not seen CFmoto till now, only on videos and hope it has no issues such as the Himalayan
Great video! Where I am it’s a solid 1K less for the CF vs the Royal Enfield… That’s a fair bit! The Himalayan actually is priced head to head here with the KTM 390 Adv… I am waiting for the new Kawasaki and KTM but otherwise CF would get my pick just for the package for the price.
Love your reviews, best out ther.
Thanks
Probably one of the best reviews to date on the two bikes. After riding both I preferred the Himis power delivery for my style of riding. The CF moto felt more nimble but the power delivery was snatchy in my opinion and experience level.
Nice bikes.
If you aren’t some extreme backcountry traveler, tubeless tires are MUCH easier to contend with when you get a flat.
The fact that so many manufactures don’t provide tubeless wheels is ridiculous.
I simply refuse to buy a bike equipped with the type of wheels that I DONT want. 🤷
So what? My road bike has tubeless and a subscription to roadside rescue, all my off-road orientated bikes run tubes. Better choice of rubber, can run lower pressures and easy to repair.
The Himalayan 450 is available with tubeless rims, so I don't see the issue.
@@jimtitt3571 We aren’t talking about off road bikes are we?
@@Yvolve So, is the 450MT. No issues here.
@@E_Clampus_Vitus Then why complain about a lack of tubeless tires on a video where both bikes have tubeless tires (or offer them as an option).
Thanks. Great review.
CF moto is difficult to get due to limited number of dealers, long waiting periods and they seem to have no demo models, so no test rides before committing.
As opposed to RE, having many dealerships with plenty of available stocks.
Wonder how well CF moto would do with warranty issues...
The long wait for the CFmoto was the deciding factor for me to buy something else….. I was quoted 6 months !! Crazy
the more I watch the more I am liking your stuff, when you consider one is a twin and one a single and yet they come that close in your eyes at least it says what a good package the CF is, not ridden one but the popularity they have gained with next to no promo razmataz or even demo's it really is something a bit special I think. The RE is quite clever too rode one on the road only and it was good like the practicalities of it but struggle with the oldie styling which is unfair but still a fact. Unless the shit hits the fan in the geopolitics or world economics the supposed mainstream brands are in trouble and its partly their own fault. good work keep it up.
EXACTLY!!! Thank you for your astute observation, @bikenavbm1229; for me, a TWIN vs a SINGLE is the biggest difference as I contemplate a more competent bike for my riding preference: overlanding. I completely discounted a single for my next bike. Tho I love my 250 Honda Rally with 47,ooo miles and the goal of riding the contiguous states of America, the buzziness at highway speeds and relatively top-heaviness of the bike fully loaded offroad is beginning to present issues as my knees age.
I have obsessed over the CF MOTO (aka Ibex for the North American market), and not once considering the Himi...until I sat on one by happenstance. On paper, the Ibex seemed to tick all the boxes for me...but it has not arrived in my market. I was at a moto event recently so, out of curiosity, I sat on the Himalayan...IT FIT ME SO WELL!!! I felt like I was sitting IN it rather than ON it. Then I felt rather dumb because in a former life I used to sell motos for a living and would always tell new riders to try to dismiss what kind of bike loved ones recommend or choosing solely by style or specs or brand, and for me specifically, Twin vs Single. New riders do not necessarily know what kind of rider they will become: cruiser, racer, overlander. So I always suggested they close their eyes when sitting on a variety of bikes, move it back and forth, up and back, lean it as far as comfortable...basically FEEL the bike rather than think about it. And take it for a test ride, if possible. Foolish me, even as an experienced rider of 20+ years, I did not follow my own advice!!!
This review, far more than any other comparison of the two bikes, is a game changer and opened my eyes. Though I still anxiously await the arrival of the Ibex, I won't be swayed merely by beautiful styling, marketing, others' reviews, accessories, engine or price: I will wait for the Ibex, test ride both bikes side-by-side, and make the informed decision about which bike works best for ME!!!
Thanks for an informative review AND some relevant observations from other readers.
Cheers, y'all. Kat
Awesome review!!
What a diplomat! ❤
The CF Moto looks expensive. Great review. So much detail!
Would love to demo both.. They both look nice. IM just mid to beginner, currently on a Kaw versys x300. Love it to actually, but a bit buzzey. Nice honest review I thought.
Great Video, well sums up, thank you.
Great and real review….thanks
Extremely accurate observations, you noticed what many others missed. The RE is made with a hammer. Everything about it is crude, even the screen is unreadable and ugly. But in the field, it brings a lot of joy. Like you, I don’t understand why there are those plates rubbing against my legs when standing. The CF looks much better, but the magic disappears when you look closely. Both bikes have very weak engines. They’re enough for off-road, but on the road, it’s a struggle - you have to constantly shift gears. A 500-550cc would be helpful.
Really good review - clearly they’re both great bikes and equal big fun whatever you’re doing with them.😁
It would be very interesting to have the new ergonomic concept TwinPegs rewieved by you, Chris!
I’m just in the process of getting ready to advertise my 1150gsa as I’ve got a chronic shoulder injury (ex figure skater) total gutter but need to move onto something light an been considering whether to get another Nx500 just bought one for my dad or a RE or the new BMW 450GS it’s great to see some bikes coming out in this category.
I had a really bad experience with the RE 411 ended up rejected at 500 miles an they couldn’t get the bits to fix it an the bits they previously fitted failed in 30 mins 🙃n it had safety issues.
Rejected two 390s as well 147 an 269 miles really a pain of an experience again riddled with issues Ktm were no help dealer did right thing 37 other bikes from the Japanese companies never an issue.
I’d love to see a return to cable throttles a the feel that gives.
The problem as well is residual I was able to sell my 2020 used t7 within the first 3 months to buy my dad the nx500 an only lost £800 quid on trade in.
Parts availability and reliability are big things time will tell on without getting into politics and human rights.
Very balanced review.
It’s interesting to see a review from another perspective a quality review as always. Itd be interesting to see some long distance road reviews as that’s where these bikes also need to really excel as that’s where most of us also need to use our bikes :)
Great skills demo seeing you ride trails in the wet... that sort of speed takes strong skills.
THe CFMoto is more like a race horse. The Himmy 450's more like a cart horse.
That seems harsh on the himmy
Himmy is more of a warhorse
I think that's quiet accurate, but not to a degree that matters.
While the Himi is definitely designed to be a pack mule, while the CF Moto is supposed to be all about sports, the CF Moto ends up just being marginally more sporty than the Himi.
Like really REALLY marginally better, had seen a comparison by 3 different riders in an enduro race and the Moto was about 1 to 3 % faster... at the cost of a bit of utility and fuel consumption... so yeah...
Himi is a jack of all trades.
From the colds of himalayas to the scorches of Rajasthani dunes it can tackle all...provided you take good care
Super interesting! I've been waiting for this. When you mention the rider position, could you please tell your height, as this matters a lot. If I'm not mistaken the R1300GS and the Ténéré have their handlebars even higher above the pegs than the CFMoto 450MT, which you said you found too high (which makes perfect sense for when actually sending it).
Great review 👏
There is already some bikes in this segment in the past like Suzuki drz400 but the royal Enfield and cf moto change the game, now everyone wnats to the part of the party.
Suzuki just relaunched the DRZ-400S and SM as the DRZ-4S and SM. Essentially the same engine but with injection and modern components. Frame looks identical as well. Suspension is different. Not sure if the SM comes on Excel rims as it did before.
@@Yvolveframe is not the same, used to have a single top cross bar, now has wishbone frame to make room for fuel injection
@@slakk5093 Didn't know that, thanks for the info! I definitely want to try it, I've been a longtime DRZ-400 fan.
Considering recent events, I'm not confident a Chinese made bike is going to remain affordable and have affordable parts in the US... It sounds like Himalayan would be better for me just starting to go off road though anyway. There is no way I would be attacking terrain with that level of confidence...
Re us $ 7.500 CF us$11.000 in Argentina .. i wonder which one will you pick then !! im enduro adv rider . love your reviews !!
Great discussion.
I'm in the same spot, REH, or CFMoto. But something else has popped up for me. AJP PR7. I know it's a complete different bike, but I'd like to hear what you think. The PR7 is a dirt bike that I would street legal. From what I can learn it is fairly comfortable for tarmac and more than capable off-road.
PR7 is a monster, very much dedicated to off-road. It’s an amazing motorcycle. But…. Reliability, spares, dealer network…
Great to see a comparison of lower cost bikes, CF Moto looks the part Enfield looks a bit old in its design , even though its a modern bike ,
Pround India and owner of RE bike......shining over world stage ... still long way to go & concore.😊
Great well explained review❤
Thank you Chris
Thats actually a million dollar question, given the number of bikes RE sells.
Liked your honesty
A short history of Himalayan is in India people used to have a dream of driving RE Classic 350 to Himalayas where as it never built for it, so from the past 15 years or so RE has started RnD on an adventure bike which can do both off-road and highway cruising and came up with Himalayan 411 which had plenty of issues in the beginning but slowly and steadily RE sorted the issues and this is still second gen. Before Hero XPlulse in India Himalayan was the most affordable, made in India adventure bike which is also good in cruising on highways. KTM was there but it got very bad reputation in the people because of idiots buying it to show off.
There is still a long way to go for Himalayan to match with the premium off-road bikes.
Chris, what if you had a few thousand pounds more to spend. Is there anything evenly remotely better - lighter, easier to live with, better suspended ?
RE is not a cheap adventure bike, it is a reasonably priced bike and it is better than most of the bikes in its range.
For the same $6000 USD you can get a Moto Morini 650 twin cylinder bike. Electronic package is similar to the CF Moto. if you could do a comparison of that to the CF Moto I think many people would be interested since they are the same price point and both have a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. I know 2 people who own the CF Moto and both are very happy. I own the Moto Morini 650 and definitely feel for the money it is a better choice for 50/50 riding
Please do a Honda NX500 review.. Does it stand up to the CF Moto?
Omg, next one. NX, fantastic bike, is a ROAD bike (or, better, city one).
TET trip group test? Theres like 7 or 8 of these little trail/adv type bikes coming, it’s bit of a minefield to navigate
I rode these two back to back with Nathan at dorothysspeedshop on Thursday and agree with you on all points! I found the Himalayan better on the super nadgery back roads due to its supple suspension and torquey engine, but the cf moto on faster roads for it composure and travel bike protection.
I rode Nathan’s bikes about 6 weeks ago, so probably did a lot of the same back roads that you did. I thought the Himi was good, but i instantly felt a connection with the CF Moto, it felt comfy, great riding position, great performance/handling/brakes for the roads we did, loved it (although many on the day preferred the Himi), as a side note, i did the road over the top of Exmoor on Nathan’s Triumph 400 X, which i appreciate is a very different bike, but i was grinning ear to ear, that bike on that road was brilliant!
@@crimpyjugs5680 Cheers for the mention gents. Hope you had a good day with me and Dorothy. For what it's worth, I ran a survey the other week with three days of 6 riders on each. Final ranking was: 1. CF Moto 450 MT 2. Triumph 400X 3. Rieju 500 Aventura 4. Himalayan 450. 5. Voge 300 Rally.
now, in this EICMA event, BMW Motorrad is launch a concept 450cc segment Adventure bike called F450 GS. In 2025 they unveiled it in the world market to reival with succeded story of CFMOTO 450MT and Royal Enfield Himalayan 450.
I do like the look of he CF Moto and less tech the better. I ride a 950 Ktm adventure 2004. heated grips is tech in my eyes
Anyone remember when ktm said a 450 twin was in the oven, CF moto make the 790/890 ktm engine, suddenly ktm says no longer 450 twin and voila CF moto already had the thing half way cooked; i really think the 450 mt would share many things with that ktm 450 that never was. Said that the Himy is gorgeous and unique, gen1 was like taken from a 60’s James Bond movie, a truly futuristic from that era, the 450 is a proper retro futuristic, like a natural of road evolution of a classic custom
That is a good question to ask. Next year, throw the new Suzuki DRZ400 into the mix.
5 speed. Doesn't even compare dude
The new adv 390
It will perform like it always has, an enduro. Uncomfortable and slow on the road, okay off road.
@cpuuk this comparison is between bikes less than £6,000; the DRZ400s costs as much as a ninja zx400rr in the U.S.
As per off-road prospective.... I will prefer himi 450 with simply minimalistic design & no too much nonsense of electronic & timeless design.... But CF moto look like there is so much going on with its complexity of electronics & design language ....!!!!
going to have to wait for bmw and ktm
I’m doing the same now. Almost bought the cfmoto but I’ll wait for either the ktm or bmw, or the new drz or the new kle500
MT 450 looks quite like a Tenre 700 and has similar nature too🤔 wonder when it's launching in Indian market tho #Cfmotoindia
There's no European or Japanese bike to match these, 4, 500 cc, 21 inch front. That's weird.
They are coming. They are watching these sell like hotcakes. Kawasaki just announced the kle500 which will have a twin
One most important thing is cfmoto consumes far more fuel( dual cylinder) than himi…….so for long touring and adventure……i prefer himi……without worry of fuel refill.
I do not know why people keep referring to these as beginner bikes. They are just in a smaller displacement segment. In the US a beginner can buy a bike of any size after they get a license. Trying to judge a Motorcycle riders experience level by the cc’s they are sitting on Makes no sense at all.
@@Tmagri4 it’s not all about you guys in the US, doesn’t work like that everywhere. 😂