I’m a recreational player, and I play with a group of local guys every weekend, and each of us have “day jobs” during the week. And I absolutely believe that we enjoy our disc golf “careers” at least as much as the pros, and we pretty much always know where our next meal is coming from. Outside of the pro “chosen few”, who is having the better disc golf career? I think we are, and I don’t even think it’s close.
@ Understand, but if I heard right from the video, the vast majority of the professional who are in it for the money probably make less money annually than the vast majority of amateurs, since most amateurs have day jobs.
unless you are consistently in the top 5, you must have a real job still. the tour life is crippling. traveling a ton instead of playing tons of courses (charlotte, NC!). disc golf sales are down, the booms gone.
@@edwardc4453 I have a few pro friends. From time to time, they just stay local and gobble up all of the local/regional moneys. I do believe that is more profitable for those pro's, than it is to be on tour. Imagine the overhead/time/logistics to travel on the west coast swing of the tour. Pro's have to pick up smaller tournaments to get from town to town. They have to have a personal traveling network to help them find the money to chase. The money that they are winning is coming from the lower tiers of players in the tournament. So, if youre taking money from the losing players to pay the winners. You're only supporting the top 1%. This is proving to be unsustainable. By the way, I dont know about outside our region, if you win a low tier tournament, you pay in Money, and win back merchandise. If youre playing for merchandise, you will eventually have enough garb that you dont want any more. Dg is the only sport that Ive been in that saw a huge rise, and a huge fall. Every other sport grew consistently upward.
But I think that's kind of the point being made: the field will shrink, or just be filled with people from wealthy families who can support them. Which doesn't give much to the spirit of competition - who is the best frisbee thrower? Bc the pool is limited by money
9:15 "flying over to europe". This also goes both ways. For example Joona Heinäinen didn't even attend worlds because it was too expensive for him to fly to the states.
As someone who runs a disc golf club, 5-10 years ago, pros would stop in town to sell merchandise, do clinics or run these promo events and draw attention. As soon as the sponsors started throwing these new contracts, all of a sudden none of these pros wanted to stop in and do these things anymore. I'm in the mecca of disc golf in Texas too so for them to not want to post up shop or run an event is insane to me.
Because it’s a hippie sport. This was never meant to be a Full time job. Only a select few have done it. DiscGolf was and always will be a “ after work “ job- recreation. It’s being ruined by people trying to make it bigger than what it is, and all the while stuffing their own pockets. Sad really
Your post shows that you are oblivious to history. All sports started off the same way. Money comes feom people becoming interested enough to wat h it being played and selling merch based on the sport, along with promotion down the line. A feq years ago, people were claiming that e-sports would fail because nobody wants to watchh people play video games. qell it turns out that people dis and now e sports players make morw than disc golfers.@@stmn346
What exactly do you think a secondary governing body would do? DGPT definitely needs competition, but that's not your claim. So, please tell us what your stupid, shortsighted comment is supposed to mean.
To say the other sports haven't had to overcome these types of financial downturns is definitely not accurate. I have a friend whose uncle played for the Miami Dolphins and Buffalo Bills for 10 years in the 60s. He had to work at a bank during the off-season. I get that this was 60 years ago but this should show you how much bigger the NFL is versus disc golf.
My DG company has grown in the last year, not shrunk. And we've added team members, and we haven't changed what they get paid for 2025. We've never designed or installed more courses in a calendar year. We've never had more enquiries for course installations. The DG business isn't easy - but it is growing if you have invested wisely in the long term growth of the game of disc golf, rather than the sport.
This problem was inevitable. The manufacturers gave out contracts when the market was booming and now that the market has gone down they can’t afford it. What other sports has their players grinding away just so they could make money for the week? All of them at some point. Pro disc golf is still a fairly new sport. In the early days of the NFL, NBA, and MLB the players struggled too. Many of them had to have side jobs just to survive.
the MVP open was my first DG pro event I had attended since getting into the sport this season and you know what I expected but didn't get? The ability to purchase discs/merch from pro's and have the opportunity to meet them and have them sign that disc. I cannot believe that they have to pay for the right to vend at a pro tour event since I paid entrance to the event to see them, so as the main draw they should obviously be allowed to vend.
12 years ago a local golfer wanted to go pro Brad Fritsch. My neighbour and 9 friends each put up 10,000$ to sponsor him for the season. So he wouldn’t be living in his car eating only subway. The sponsors were to get his prize money in return. By the 3rd year Brad was on the pga tour and winning more than 100k. he gave everyone back their money. I don’t know why up and coming pdga players don’t have their local club sponsor them.
No one is entitled to be a touring professional. They are all independent contractors/small business owners. No sponsor in any sport is spending money on something they don’t believe will generate profit. Why should the sponsors lose moneys just to get more people on tour?
At the end of the day, there's nothing stopping the manufacturers from doing what they want. People are going to buy discs regardless of whose name is on it (with a few exceptions of pros who really move plastic). So the mass of pros can say whatever they want and do whatever they want, but they have very little sway over what actually happens. Tour discs used to be a $2 or $3 mark-up, but now a lot of them are $10 to $15 more expensive. I don't know if the pro is getting a larger cut of that overall cost, but I doubt it. Clinics and at-event disc sales are down since (as you mentioned) there's so much information available for free nowadays, and the pros have very few discs that you can't get from your local seller or off of the manufacturer's website. So you have to be motivated to support your favorite pros, and most people who play disc golf don't even follow pro disc golf. I think the only way this gets brought to a head is if the big name pros make it happen. This would have to be a massive movement that everyone signs up for, and I just don't see that happening. Every time something big has happened in disc golf, I've seen most of the pro community shrug and mind their own business. I don't know if the motivations are fear-based or something else, but disc golf hasn't been big on standing up for itself. I hope I'm wrong about all of this, since I don't believe that most pros are being paid adequately, but I don't see how it could reasonably reach a boiling point to make the manufacturers (or the PDGA or the DGPT) do something about it.
Without major corporate sponsorships, for the tour, peeps will continue to struggle. People forget the PGA tour is 200 years old and that only a few of those guys in the beginning made enough money to live on. It’s time to get an offseason job, if your disc golf money isn’t paying the bills. Maybe get a full time job and become a regional pro?
I feel like disc golf just needs the media coverage. ESPN, FS1, anything. People just need to see the sport. When people were seeing it in 2020, they liked it. We can't (and don't want to) bring back the conditions that created that boom, so we need to recreate it without the added bonus of everyone paying attention. We just have to do it the hard way, get it in the mainstream and make sure people know that we are here.
3:41 ummmmmm the manufacturers are cutting salaries for a reason. The if a player is not worth the investment that a company then you pay them less. If you’re Tour Series disc isn’t selling then you shouldn’t get one in the first place. If you’re not moving plastic then the way that you promised then why are you getting paid. It’s how business works. I’m just trying to see this from a manufacturers/business perspective of the sport
@@michaelmaniloff9297not really what I’m saying. Bro has a good idea of what’s going on in the disc golf world. I’m just saying from the standpoint of a business perspective if you hire someone to do a job and they aren’t doing their job you let them go. Or you cut their pay equal to what they’re worth. I am all for players earning what they’re worth, but if you’re not worth the amount you’re being paid….
Don't forget that every major sport started out this way. Pros had jobs in the offseason. All these major pro leagues where everyone earns 6 or 7 figures have been around for a century or more. It takes decades for a sport to establish a profitable pro league.
I hope you guys see this... look into skateboarder pros kinda have similar vibes on and off the course/spots tournaments... and look at skateboarding now js
It’s a two part video between Simon Lizotte’s channel and Drew Gibson’s channel. It’s from last year where they battle to see who is the best Glitch thrower.
Let us never forget the story of people like Matty O, Ezra Aderhold, The Robinson brothers, etc. They are very clear about how little money they made, the kind of life they lived at first. Ezra Aderhold lived out of the back of his car, even though he was sponsored.
I think Europe will be disc golf's life support in the coming years. They just need time for more championship courses to develop, along with the talent pool.
I have been commenting for some time that players are going to have to play just regional events that are close to their home base because of the cost of doing so much traveling
I hate hearing about pay cuts, and I think the companies should honor their contracts. With that said, I'd bet the number of players who provide value that justifies their contract is between five and ten.
@JJ79_ not exactly...you would make more for whatever place you get...the tour card would matter more and it would boost the incentive to play and not side hustle. Let's just say it's currently a 70/30 sponsorship/winning economy... it might be better if it went 40/60 and good players are rewarded.
Yes yes yes....I won't just watch poker...but if it's for million bucks I will. Make the purses actually worth fighting over, create the drama, make the events seem more important than they are.
I know you are the mouth peice of a lot of touring pros and it's a hard life.... but they are choosing it. Being a pro is a privilege. James Proctor is an interesting case study. He didn't tour untill he could be competitive... more players need that mindset. More players need to tour locally and get a winning record there and not just jump to the tour at the first sign of success.
If companies are reneging on their contracts, that's one thing. But these guys need to take a night class on business. Simon says it best. If you want make a living playing disc golf, get better. Otherwise get a real job like the rest of the world and play for fun like everyone else. If I can't watch pros play this silly game, then I'll watch some of the other 43 million minutes of content uploaded to RUclips each day.
Sounds like disc golf needs a fresh start. There's enough money out there to build a new series outside the pdga. It's happening in other sports as well. Better payouts and more courses we haven't seen.
Pull up the whambulance for this guy. Where do you think all this money is going to come from? Entertainment isn't that important, it's a huge misplacement of values that any professional athlete get paid so much. Go start a farm or something do something worthwhile with your life. Pro disc golf simply isn't that important.
The best con the disc golf manufacturers have figured out is that they convinced there sponsored players to pay for everything so they can be walking billboards and social media drones!
The players aren’t brining any value by just playing. If you’re paying someone to do a job then they need reflect the value of what you’re paying them. If they’re not doing that then their salary gets cut, or they are let go so you can bring in new employees.
I disagree that "the sponsors aren't' listening to the pros". Currently disc golf has a handful of sponsors and MOST of them are small disc golf-related companies. small businesses. Compare that to traditional golf that has MAJOR companies wanting to get in on the ad game because of viewership and demand. I love this sport, but disc golf is still a 'hobby' sport that is inclusive to only niche fans. Until that changes, adults should not be trying to make a living doing this when only about 10 current players are good enough to make a living. Don't put this on the manufacturers that sign players either. They are limited for the same exact reason. How can anyone expect this to all of a sudden be a corporate sport when the best of the best showcase their talents in town parks that we all play at? Think about it
These players are brands. The ines who dont understand that will always struggle. They've always mostly been their own PR, manager, etc. If your job doesn't pay the bills, make a change. Disc golf is going dying, bubble popped, and 99% of the funds were squandered. #growthesport bamboozled us all.
Disc golf is not there yet. So advice for touring pros. Multiple streams of income. E-commerce Cyrto stocks. Hussle!! If you love the sport and want to tour you will work harder than most. Problem with discgolf is when it became popular it wasn’t consumed by the upper class and wealthy society like “pickleball” which has huge sponsors and major networks.
Using disc golf as a means to support yourself is extremely unrealistic...sponsors aren't making enough off disc sales to hand over the profit to a guy. Discraft did it...they started the big checks flying. But they are way more established than some of these newer makers of discs. This sport was never made for guys to rake millions per year
While it sucks that players dont get what they deserve..sponsors ar businesses that players should make money..not otherway around. Its on us the consumer who should pay for the entertainment..its tricky when we in sense pay through manufacturers..what i am hearing we aint buing enoug discs :)
If we the people payd directly to players it would bebmore costefevtive but thats not how the worldbworks right now. Contract breaches is another thing ofcourse
The sad truth is that disc golf is cheap to play. That is a strong attraction compared to ball golf, but it also means that there is not that much money to go around. Disc golf appears to have peaked, sad as it is to say. I do not see much money coming in from spectators, nor do I see much money from sponsors. Discs are cheap and they last too long. You can only buy so many of them.
You’re actually insane for some of these takes. It’s not on the manufacturing companies to pay the way for these players. It’s up to the players to make themselves valuable to the companies. I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that MVP hasn’t even thought of slashing any of their players salary because they only sign people who are actually promoting and more importantly selling discs. A player like Gannon may win a ton of tournaments but he can’t sell discs to save his life. Same goes for 90% of players on tour. There literally is not a single company in the disc golf industry that would be cool with running in a deficit when it comes to sponsorships.
No one likes the new players that are winning. First round of 2024 worlds has almost 100,000 more RUclips views than the last. Why? Because it has likeable players on the card. Isaac is the worse thing that ever happened to disc golf. His personality sucks, he’s not handsome, and he has a boring style of disc golf.
Maybe this is what happens when you try too hard to charge for content. The audience was hanging by a thread to begin with. Even udisc move is barrier to community....
I want our sport to go back to 2006-2010 times. Too many d bags play now and made me not want to go to the course anymore and the constant bleeding me of money in order to play got to be waaaaay too much. I got into this sport because it wasn’t expensive and now everything is about $$$$$
you can't keep paying players, and sponsoring tournaments and expect your company to survive. where is the outside money?????? why does the PDGA have a monopoly on everything associated with the sport???? the sport is an absolute mess and is a f*n disgrace and the leadership absolutely does not care about anyone but themselves. bring in outside money and you can improve things. why are players not going outside of the sport to get sponsorship and money? why is everyone in the sport relying on inside money to make things work???? I say it everytime I talk about this but what does PGA and Waste Management have in common???? ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN NOTHING...... but yet Waste Management sponsors the PGA tour stop in Phoenix every year. Just Saying...... none of the bozo's in charge are true business people or understand how to make any of this work, they do not understand the legal side of things, they do not go outside the sport to ask how other sports leagues do things to generate money. Why does Ken Climo get $200k a year????? what does he for the sport and for Discraft that warrants that???? That literally takes money out of active players pockets. This is exactly the point. Climo just came back to announce for PDGA/DGPT and has to be getting compensated from them so what is the justification from Discraft???? Where is the outside money for media rights? Why is axe throwing, corn hole, ping pong, arcade basketball shooting etc on ESPN network channels???????? yeah I see that shit every week on ESPN network with a shit ton of advertising on the jersey's. there is so much money out there that companies are trying to give away to lower their taxable money but PDGA and TD's will not go after it. how does Juan Soto get a 15 year $765 million contract????? OUTSIDE MONEY NY Mets cannot generate enough money from ticket sales to justify paying a player that much money or LA Dodgers paying Shohei Ohtani 10 year $700 million deal.
Lots of large sports sponsorships are B2B endeavors. I'd bet that Waste Management doesn't actually pay much in cash for their PGA deal; instead, they trade on-site waste logistics for PGA events in exchange for promotional space on TV. That's a good deal for both parties, but the PGA offers something that the PDGA can't: exposure.
I think this attitude is just kinda entitled. Poker pros grind for four times as many hours, pay their own bills, travel regularly, etc. Not trying to dog the pros, but you're playing a game that most people have never even heard of. I play every day, and watch every tournament, but I agree with Simon when he says your destiny is in your own hands.
Well Innova doesn't look that stupid know. Discraft is paying Mcbeth 10 million dollar.There going to give KC 200,00 thousand. MVP just gave 2 million awy to get Simon. Ricky is getting 1 million dollars. These companies have lost all there savings with these decisions. Could be hard times for them. The sport just doesn't generate lots of money. DG is a underground sport. Not much money being made. OR All these contracts are fake and they get $5 a disc from the $30 signature disc that the people buy.
You’re a young guy. It’s easy to feel a little…entitled. These are for-profit companies paying people who agree to the terms of their commitments. If you want more pay, sell more discs. That’s it. That’s all it ever has been, that’s all it will ever be. Sell more discs and justify your paycheck.
I think it’s people like y’all that ruin DiscGolf. It was never meant to be mainstream. But y’all tried to force it. Social media is ruining a great sport.
I’m a recreational player, and I play with a group of local guys every weekend, and each of us have “day jobs” during the week. And I absolutely believe that we enjoy our disc golf “careers” at least as much as the pros, and we pretty much always know where our next meal is coming from. Outside of the pro “chosen few”, who is having the better disc golf career? I think we are, and I don’t even think it’s close.
"amateur" for the love of it vs "professional" for the money of it
@
Understand, but if I heard right from the video, the vast majority of the professional who are in it for the money probably make less money annually than the vast majority of amateurs, since most amateurs have day jobs.
unless you are consistently in the top 5, you must have a real job still. the tour life is crippling. traveling a ton instead of playing tons of courses (charlotte, NC!).
disc golf sales are down, the booms gone.
@@edwardc4453 I have a few pro friends. From time to time, they just stay local and gobble up all of the local/regional moneys. I do believe that is more profitable for those pro's, than it is to be on tour. Imagine the overhead/time/logistics to travel on the west coast swing of the tour. Pro's have to pick up smaller tournaments to get from town to town. They have to have a personal traveling network to help them find the money to chase. The money that they are winning is coming from the lower tiers of players in the tournament. So, if youre taking money from the losing players to pay the winners. You're only supporting the top 1%. This is proving to be unsustainable. By the way, I dont know about outside our region, if you win a low tier tournament, you pay in Money, and win back merchandise. If youre playing for merchandise, you will eventually have enough garb that you dont want any more. Dg is the only sport that Ive been in that saw a huge rise, and a huge fall. Every other sport grew consistently upward.
You don't have a disc golf career....
I feel for anyone who struggles to get by, but if my job doesn’t pay the bills then i need to find a new job. It’s sad but also reality
Cheers to that, when they allow my bitcoin pass and key to be found in the world I’ll go on tour
But I think that's kind of the point being made: the field will shrink, or just be filled with people from wealthy families who can support them. Which doesn't give much to the spirit of competition - who is the best frisbee thrower? Bc the pool is limited by money
@ it’s a disc, and it’s against the best.
@@codylabrecque5446 Not any different than most other sports, unfortunately.
@@codylabrecque5446 this will always will be the case.
A familiar story for many Pro sports. Sounds like it's time for the Pros to Organize. Collective Bargaining for the win.
9:15 "flying over to europe". This also goes both ways. For example Joona Heinäinen didn't even attend worlds because it was too expensive for him to fly to the states.
I’d be all for events with no player packs if it meant I didn’t have to pay $50 for a one day event
As someone who runs a disc golf club, 5-10 years ago, pros would stop in town to sell merchandise, do clinics or run these promo events and draw attention. As soon as the sponsors started throwing these new contracts, all of a sudden none of these pros wanted to stop in and do these things anymore. I'm in the mecca of disc golf in Texas too so for them to not want to post up shop or run an event is insane to me.
Because it’s a hippie sport. This was never meant to be a Full time job. Only a select few have done it.
DiscGolf was and always will be a “ after work “ job- recreation. It’s being ruined by people trying to make it bigger than what it is, and all the while stuffing their own pockets. Sad really
That is crazy
@@stmn346 oh that’s right, football/basketball is played by brilliant scholars… FOH with that noise.
Pretty sure the mecca of disc golf is Charlotte NC area. But I guess the argument could be made for Texas.
Your post shows that you are oblivious to history. All sports started off the same way. Money comes feom people becoming interested enough to wat h it being played and selling merch based on the sport, along with promotion down the line. A feq years ago, people were claiming that e-sports would fail because nobody wants to watchh people play video games. qell it turns out that people dis and now e sports players make morw than disc golfers.@@stmn346
We need a STRONG alternative to PDGA! Nothing tightens a company up like some good ol' competition!
The PDGA doesn't run the DIsc Golf Pro Tour.
The problem is the sponsors mostly.
What exactly do you think a secondary governing body would do? DGPT definitely needs competition, but that's not your claim. So, please tell us what your stupid, shortsighted comment is supposed to mean.
@NJT1013 LOL. My stupid shortsighted comment? Don't get your panties all bunched up!
@@CincySmokeSignals it's called an OPINION, I have mine and you have yours!
To say the other sports haven't had to overcome these types of financial downturns is definitely not accurate. I have a friend whose uncle played for the Miami Dolphins and Buffalo Bills for 10 years in the 60s. He had to work at a bank during the off-season. I get that this was 60 years ago but this should show you how much bigger the NFL is versus disc golf.
My DG company has grown in the last year, not shrunk. And we've added team members, and we haven't changed what they get paid for 2025. We've never designed or installed more courses in a calendar year. We've never had more enquiries for course installations.
The DG business isn't easy - but it is growing if you have invested wisely in the long term growth of the game of disc golf, rather than the sport.
There is a limit to the growth, period
This problem was inevitable. The manufacturers gave out contracts when the market was booming and now that the market has gone down they can’t afford it.
What other sports has their players grinding away just so they could make money for the week? All of them at some point. Pro disc golf is still a fairly new sport. In the early days of the NFL, NBA, and MLB the players struggled too. Many of them had to have side jobs just to survive.
the MVP open was my first DG pro event I had attended since getting into the sport this season and you know what I expected but didn't get? The ability to purchase discs/merch from pro's and have the opportunity to meet them and have them sign that disc. I cannot believe that they have to pay for the right to vend at a pro tour event since I paid entrance to the event to see them, so as the main draw they should obviously be allowed to vend.
12 years ago a local golfer wanted to go pro Brad Fritsch.
My neighbour and 9 friends each put up 10,000$ to sponsor him for the season.
So he wouldn’t be living in his car eating only subway.
The sponsors were to get his prize money in return. By the 3rd year Brad was on the pga tour and winning more than 100k. he gave everyone back their money.
I don’t know why up and coming pdga players don’t have their local club sponsor them.
You need to interview the sponsors about their revenue. How much is revenue down? Are they hoarding money or is it that they don’t have the cash?
No one is entitled to be a touring professional. They are all independent contractors/small business owners.
No sponsor in any sport is spending money on something they don’t believe will generate profit. Why should the sponsors lose moneys just to get more people on tour?
Great appearance on Staggered Stance Whoop Whoop
It is sad that players are getting harsh pay cuts, but if the manufactures fall, it would be much worse for the future of the sport.
At the end of the day, there's nothing stopping the manufacturers from doing what they want. People are going to buy discs regardless of whose name is on it (with a few exceptions of pros who really move plastic). So the mass of pros can say whatever they want and do whatever they want, but they have very little sway over what actually happens.
Tour discs used to be a $2 or $3 mark-up, but now a lot of them are $10 to $15 more expensive. I don't know if the pro is getting a larger cut of that overall cost, but I doubt it.
Clinics and at-event disc sales are down since (as you mentioned) there's so much information available for free nowadays, and the pros have very few discs that you can't get from your local seller or off of the manufacturer's website. So you have to be motivated to support your favorite pros, and most people who play disc golf don't even follow pro disc golf.
I think the only way this gets brought to a head is if the big name pros make it happen. This would have to be a massive movement that everyone signs up for, and I just don't see that happening. Every time something big has happened in disc golf, I've seen most of the pro community shrug and mind their own business. I don't know if the motivations are fear-based or something else, but disc golf hasn't been big on standing up for itself.
I hope I'm wrong about all of this, since I don't believe that most pros are being paid adequately, but I don't see how it could reasonably reach a boiling point to make the manufacturers (or the PDGA or the DGPT) do something about it.
Without major corporate sponsorships, for the tour, peeps will continue to struggle. People forget the PGA tour is 200 years old and that only a few of those guys in the beginning made enough money to live on. It’s time to get an offseason job, if your disc golf money isn’t paying the bills. Maybe get a full time job and become a regional pro?
I feel like disc golf just needs the media coverage. ESPN, FS1, anything. People just need to see the sport. When people were seeing it in 2020, they liked it. We can't (and don't want to) bring back the conditions that created that boom, so we need to recreate it without the added bonus of everyone paying attention. We just have to do it the hard way, get it in the mainstream and make sure people know that we are here.
3:41 ummmmmm the manufacturers are cutting salaries for a reason. The if a player is not worth the investment that a company then you pay them less. If you’re Tour Series disc isn’t selling then you shouldn’t get one in the first place. If you’re not moving plastic then the way that you promised then why are you getting paid. It’s how business works. I’m just trying to see this from a manufacturers/business perspective of the sport
You are correct. Jefferson is a young kid with no real world experience. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
What's the point of having a pro-tour if no one can afford to tour?
@@michaelmaniloff9297not really what I’m saying. Bro has a good idea of what’s going on in the disc golf world. I’m just saying from the standpoint of a business perspective if you hire someone to do a job and they aren’t doing their job you let them go. Or you cut their pay equal to what they’re worth. I am all for players earning what they’re worth, but if you’re not worth the amount you’re being paid….
@robertgordon8912 You are correct. All Im saying is that he isn't able to fully see that perspective yet.
@@michaelmaniloff9297oh… I thought you were being facetious😂
Don't forget that every major sport started out this way. Pros had jobs in the offseason. All these major pro leagues where everyone earns 6 or 7 figures have been around for a century or more. It takes decades for a sport to establish a profitable pro league.
I hope you guys see this... look into skateboarder pros kinda have similar vibes on and off the course/spots tournaments... and look at skateboarding now js
I would love to see a "team play" tournaments, such as the top 5 players from team Innova vs team MVP vs team Latitude 64 vs ...............
Can someone link the actual video? I’ve tried searching it numerous times, and can’t find it..
It’s a two part video between Simon Lizotte’s channel and Drew Gibson’s channel. It’s from last year where they battle to see who is the best Glitch thrower.
This from drews wlogmas this year.
Let us never forget the story of people like Matty O, Ezra Aderhold, The Robinson brothers, etc. They are very clear about how little money they made, the kind of life they lived at first. Ezra Aderhold lived out of the back of his car, even though he was sponsored.
I think Europe will be disc golf's life support in the coming years. They just need time for more championship courses to develop, along with the talent pool.
I have been commenting for some time that players are going to have to play just regional events that are close to their home base because of the cost of doing so much traveling
Preach! Nailed it.
I hate hearing about pay cuts, and I think the companies should honor their contracts. With that said, I'd bet the number of players who provide value that justifies their contract is between five and ten.
The money should be moved from sponsorships to event winnings...so if you win, you can play.
Not many players then.
@JJ79_ not exactly...you would make more for whatever place you get...the tour card would matter more and it would boost the incentive to play and not side hustle. Let's just say it's currently a 70/30 sponsorship/winning economy... it might be better if it went 40/60 and good players are rewarded.
Yes yes yes....I won't just watch poker...but if it's for million bucks I will. Make the purses actually worth fighting over, create the drama, make the events seem more important than they are.
I know you are the mouth peice of a lot of touring pros and it's a hard life.... but they are choosing it. Being a pro is a privilege. James Proctor is an interesting case study. He didn't tour untill he could be competitive... more players need that mindset. More players need to tour locally and get a winning record there and not just jump to the tour at the first sign of success.
If companies are reneging on their contracts, that's one thing. But these guys need to take a night class on business. Simon says it best. If you want make a living playing disc golf, get better. Otherwise get a real job like the rest of the world and play for fun like everyone else. If I can't watch pros play this silly game, then I'll watch some of the other 43 million minutes of content uploaded to RUclips each day.
Sounds like disc golf needs a fresh start. There's enough money out there to build a new series outside the pdga. It's happening in other sports as well. Better payouts and more courses we haven't seen.
Could it be the Covid Boom was….just a boom. We’re back to 2019 levels again.
The shot at 12 minutes shows why Simon is making a living...
Another ridiculous take from someone can't accept basic economics.
Some players could come together to form a new Pro League, get sponsors, set it all up, get it on ESPN
Most racers lost money and don't complain about it. They do it for the love of the sport. And it's a lot more work than throwing plastic
disc golf is not mainstream, we are in the same market of say....professional lacrosse players.
Boyd Hill baby!!
I think you will see less regulars on the pro tour and I think people will go back to playing a regional tour.
Pull up the whambulance for this guy. Where do you think all this money is going to come from? Entertainment isn't that important, it's a huge misplacement of values that any professional athlete get paid so much. Go start a farm or something do something worthwhile with your life. Pro disc golf simply isn't that important.
The best con the disc golf manufacturers have figured out is that they convinced there sponsored players to pay for everything so they can be walking billboards and social media drones!
The players aren’t brining any value by just playing. If you’re paying someone to do a job then they need reflect the value of what you’re paying them. If they’re not doing that then their salary gets cut, or they are let go so you can bring in new employees.
This is why other sports have players unions. I feel like the DGPT players need to unionize stat
The way Simon is talking sounds like he'd blow a raspberry at that idea, "just get better"
I disagree that "the sponsors aren't' listening to the pros". Currently disc golf has a handful of sponsors and MOST of them are small disc golf-related companies. small businesses. Compare that to traditional golf that has MAJOR companies wanting to get in on the ad game because of viewership and demand. I love this sport, but disc golf is still a 'hobby' sport that is inclusive to only niche fans. Until that changes, adults should not be trying to make a living doing this when only about 10 current players are good enough to make a living. Don't put this on the manufacturers that sign players either. They are limited for the same exact reason.
How can anyone expect this to all of a sudden be a corporate sport when the best of the best showcase their talents in town parks that we all play at? Think about it
These players are brands. The ines who dont understand that will always struggle. They've always mostly been their own PR, manager, etc. If your job doesn't pay the bills, make a change. Disc golf is going dying, bubble popped, and 99% of the funds were squandered. #growthesport bamboozled us all.
Disc golf is not there yet. So advice for touring pros. Multiple streams of income. E-commerce Cyrto stocks. Hussle!! If you love the sport and want to tour you will work harder than most.
Problem with discgolf is when it became popular it wasn’t consumed by the upper class and wealthy society like “pickleball” which has huge sponsors and major networks.
Hot take: Before the end of 2025, all the top pros will be charging for autographs. Some probably as much as $100 a pop.
Using disc golf as a means to support yourself is extremely unrealistic...sponsors aren't making enough off disc sales to hand over the profit to a guy. Discraft did it...they started the big checks flying. But they are way more established than some of these newer makers of discs. This sport was never made for guys to rake millions per year
While it sucks that players dont get what they deserve..sponsors ar businesses that players should make money..not otherway around. Its on us the consumer who should pay for the entertainment..its tricky when we in sense pay through manufacturers..what i am hearing we aint buing enoug discs :)
If we the people payd directly to players it would bebmore costefevtive but thats not how the worldbworks right now.
Contract breaches is another thing ofcourse
Inflation isn’t cost going up, it’s the value of the dollar declining, important distinction
I am curious. What happens to the cost of the necessities discussed here when the value of the dollar declines? Um, actually, I think I know.
The sad truth is that disc golf is cheap to play. That is a strong attraction compared to ball golf, but it also means that there is not that much money to go around. Disc golf appears to have peaked, sad as it is to say. I do not see much money coming in from spectators, nor do I see much money from sponsors. Discs are cheap and they last too long. You can only buy so many of them.
You’re actually insane for some of these takes. It’s not on the manufacturing companies to pay the way for these players. It’s up to the players to make themselves valuable to the companies. I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that MVP hasn’t even thought of slashing any of their players salary because they only sign people who are actually promoting and more importantly selling discs. A player like Gannon may win a ton of tournaments but he can’t sell discs to save his life. Same goes for 90% of players on tour. There literally is not a single company in the disc golf industry that would be cool with running in a deficit when it comes to sponsorships.
No one likes the new players that are winning. First round of 2024 worlds has almost 100,000 more RUclips views than the last. Why? Because it has likeable players on the card. Isaac is the worse thing that ever happened to disc golf. His personality sucks, he’s not handsome, and he has a boring style of disc golf.
The worst thing? 😂 I’ll add that to the resume
1X THE WORST THING! LMAO@@isaacrobinson9572
@ Well something caused a nearly 40% decline in interest over the past few years. And yeah, I’d work on that resume if I were you.
This is the craziest take I've ever seen
@@sueinraleigh3091 your obsession with mass shootings is creepy
the edits in this video were insufferable.
Maybe this is what happens when you try too hard to charge for content. The audience was hanging by a thread to begin with. Even udisc move is barrier to community....
I want our sport to go back to 2006-2010 times. Too many d bags play now and made me not want to go to the course anymore and the constant bleeding me of money in order to play got to be waaaaay too much. I got into this sport because it wasn’t expensive and now everything is about $$$$$
Stick with baseball, contracts are worth almost billions these days.
I like Simon but his perspective is kinda meh because he is the top %1 percent of getting paid!!
They put took much money into to few players. Lower then top paid players and spread it out better.
Players union....
you can't keep paying players, and sponsoring tournaments and expect your company to survive. where is the outside money?????? why does the PDGA have a monopoly on everything associated with the sport???? the sport is an absolute mess and is a f*n disgrace and the leadership absolutely does not care about anyone but themselves. bring in outside money and you can improve things.
why are players not going outside of the sport to get sponsorship and money? why is everyone in the sport relying on inside money to make things work????
I say it everytime I talk about this but what does PGA and Waste Management have in common???? ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN NOTHING...... but yet Waste Management sponsors the PGA tour stop in Phoenix every year.
Just Saying......
none of the bozo's in charge are true business people or understand how to make any of this work, they do not understand the legal side of things, they do not go outside the sport to ask how other sports leagues do things to generate money.
Why does Ken Climo get $200k a year????? what does he for the sport and for Discraft that warrants that???? That literally takes money out of active players pockets.
This is exactly the point. Climo just came back to announce for PDGA/DGPT and has to be getting compensated from them so what is the justification from Discraft????
Where is the outside money for media rights? Why is axe throwing, corn hole, ping pong, arcade basketball shooting etc on ESPN network channels???????? yeah I see that shit every week on ESPN network with a shit ton of advertising on the jersey's.
there is so much money out there that companies are trying to give away to lower their taxable money but PDGA and TD's will not go after it.
how does Juan Soto get a 15 year $765 million contract????? OUTSIDE MONEY NY Mets cannot generate enough money from ticket sales to justify paying a player that much money or LA Dodgers paying Shohei Ohtani 10 year $700 million deal.
Lots of large sports sponsorships are B2B endeavors. I'd bet that Waste Management doesn't actually pay much in cash for their PGA deal; instead, they trade on-site waste logistics for PGA events in exchange for promotional space on TV. That's a good deal for both parties, but the PGA offers something that the PDGA can't: exposure.
Second because I’m gay
😂
staying irrelevant? interesting slip!
I hope the best for all the pros grinding it out. Im indifferent to Drew honestly, I unsubbed from his channel several months ago
I had to turn this video off.
I think this attitude is just kinda entitled. Poker pros grind for four times as many hours, pay their own bills, travel regularly, etc. Not trying to dog the pros, but you're playing a game that most people have never even heard of. I play every day, and watch every tournament, but I agree with Simon when he says your destiny is in your own hands.
i'm all for the pros making a sustainable living, but damn this is an ignorant ass video.
Well Innova doesn't look that stupid know. Discraft is paying Mcbeth 10 million dollar.There going to give KC 200,00 thousand. MVP just gave 2 million awy to get Simon. Ricky is getting 1 million dollars.
These companies have lost all there savings with these decisions. Could be hard times for them.
The sport just doesn't generate lots of money. DG is a underground sport. Not much money being made.
OR
All these contracts are fake and they get $5 a disc from the $30 signature disc that the people buy.
Disc companies could just show their revenue.
They must be saying that they cant afford to pay players, so they should prove it.
You’re a young guy. It’s easy to feel a little…entitled.
These are for-profit companies paying people who agree to the terms of their commitments.
If you want more pay, sell more discs. That’s it. That’s all it ever has been, that’s all it will ever be. Sell more discs and justify your paycheck.
I think it’s people like y’all that ruin DiscGolf. It was never meant to be mainstream. But y’all tried to force it. Social media is ruining a great sport.
I kinda love it when Americans are crying about having to fly to europe.
Invest in crypto , tour forever😅
soon the pro tour is gonna be nothing but some trust funders
Most racers lost money and don't complain about it. They do it for the love of the sport. And it's a lot more work than throwing plastic
Auto racing is infamously dominated by the wealthiest class. Part of the appeal of disc golf is the low barriers of entry.