Number 1 Home Engine Builder Mistake
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Bore taper is one of those things nobody pays attention to until they have a problem. Here's what you need to know.
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I see that lots of people have commented about using ridge reamers. I never use them and here's why. The area above the ridge as well as the area below where the rings travel at the bottom of the bore are your guides. I NEVER use a dingle berry type hone unless it's a quick freshen-up on an engine
i know to be relatively perfect...only to seat the rings.
If I'm honing with a fixed stone type of hone, I am trusting the area above the ridge to keep the stones in true alignment with the original bore...same for the area at the bottom of the stroke. Cut the ridge away, and you lose that top guide, and your chances for creating taper skyrocket.
Amen.
I totally agree Tony, but I want to add some info. If there is enough taper that the cylinders need bored, it should be done by a machinist with a proper boring machine, but if you're like me and can't afford that, the best way to do it yourself is with a boring hone, which holds the stones perfectly square to eliminate taper. If you're too poor for one of those, then yes, you're absolutely right, Tony, leave the ridge on top as a guide, do not cut it out with a ridge reamer. Finally, dingle berry hones should only be used to create a crosshatch pattern after boring, or if boring isn't necessary and the original crosshatch is worn off.
I can just imagine someone out there trying to bore a block with a dingle berry hone... the hone would wear out before you got one cylinder done!
Yeah you nailed it Tony, a ridge reamer is not a welcome tool in anyones tool box.
Still tho' why prefer 3 stone glaze breakers over a dingle ball?
Ive used both...the 3 stone for 30+ years...but when i had my first experience with the proper size dingleball stone, i felt the crosshatch pattern and grit was more suited to my taste, as in more even pressure and better finished product, once i really discovered them.
Maybe its more personal preference?
@@williamstamper442 The dingleberry has no structure...it's incapable of any sort of correction on the cylinder walls other than creating cross hatch. A 3 stone can take out waves, a dingle can only make them worse
what about just giving them a bit of smoothing down with emery cloth like 800 grit or so by hand, not too heavy with it, just a smoothing of the ridge lip? in smooth, and even strokes or turns of course to keep the cylinder consistent for round
Never believe you know everything. Your brain stops listening when something important comes along. This channel is bringing back a lot of common sense from the grave.
AGAIN. I learned more here in 6 minutes than I would have in a week long class. You're the man Tony!
Hi Uncle Tony, the number one engine mistake is forgetting to clean up the yard the night before, and stepping in dog shit, and getting it all over the garage floor until it smells like a truck stop mens room....ew
Love how you give practical advice in a way that you dont have to have three MBA's and a PhD in engineering to understand and it's always useful advice.
You always make me feel like I am building engines with my dad, thanks Tony.
Number one Home Builder Mistakes mistake, not taking Uncle Tonys advice on Anything. This is crucial, pay attention...Cheers from Quebec...
Like at 5:15?
This is dumb. Why not take it to the shop and get a proper cross hatch hone ? Honing by hand is dumb.
Partial honing jobs? .010 overbore with a stock used pistons and new rings? Sounds more like a high school or junkyard build.
@Boosted b18b1 Mr Seperatist to you punk..Peace...
For a street engine I think the rule of thumb is to Hone just to deglaze the cylinder for new rings, or Bore to true up the cylinder.
It's always a Bonus when your cylinders are true and you can just Hone and Go. Thanks Tony
400 grit is almost perfect only takes going in n out like 3 times and loading it up with cheap liquid wrench. Dereck from vice grip garage did a real good inexpensive build like that.
Yeah that’s all ur doing not getting rid of the ridge at the top of the cylinder.. if you have a big ridge the cylinder is worn.
This 383 I rebuilt was my first engine rebuild, I went in blind with minimal knowledge and a few you tube videos under my belt. lol. But with most of my life spent in hands on fashion, I bought a three stone honing tool and set about de-glazing the cylinders.
In the end the results were quite satisfying and boosted my confidence level. Wish I could post a pic. There is a video on my channel of my fury build with a couple shots in it if anyone is interested.... cheers uncles!
When the national treasure speaks, you better listen.
When you remove .012" that's no longer honing.
Holy cow he must have been sitting there the whole weekend.
to be fair that's probably partially from normal wear
Agree - .006" per side is a considerable amount via hone.
Sounds like boring the hard way, and not willing to have it machined bored.
On my engine, I did use a ridge reamer (was worried about snagging the rings on the way out). My cylinders were well in spec. I ran the hone keeping the pivots JUST within the cylinder, top to bottom, and just enough to break the glaze.
Every winning engine I ever built was a " loose " standard bore engine. In stock classes a nicely aged block and crank was my favorite. Yes you can still " blueprint " an engine like that.
It just takes a little work but pays off.
That's why you can have an ak-47 sitting in the corner covered in rust for a few years,rode hard and put away wet and stomp on the bolt to break the rust free,and she'll still fire and work like a champ all because of those looser tolerances! My drill sergeant told us that story one day while b.sing and comparing the M-16 against other rifles. Keep er loose boys!!! That's good for a few things,well,um,uh,but not everything! If you get my drift,lol!
I remember the old timers at the oval dirt track talking about loose engine's, we had a lot of fun without much money .
They build the qualifying engines for NASCAR that way - "Grenade Motors" that are built for around 10 laps.
Love the simple, no BS, to the point tutorials!!!
You'll never hear on any sponsor-heavy TV shows that you can use a standard piston in a .010" overbore! Or that you can measure taper with a ring and feeler gauges. Tony is working just like my dad and uncles used to - old school economy. Run what ya got.
Great advice , not ever engine needs a complete rebore . I did a 440 years ago in a 77 Cordoba it had one bad piston and rod journal . I replaced the bad piston with a stock standard piston, cut the crank 10 10 and honed and reringed it and did the heads . It ran great ! I did a lot of my drivers the same way and got years of service out of them .
For some kind of reason you keep me hypnoticed to my screen...Like your video's, no crap just pure info.. Thanks, from The Netherlands
Roll up your windows!!!
This is the kind of wisdom that comes from practical experience. Once again, the lay scientist abides!🤘
.003 of gap is .001 of taper, you're dividing circumference by about pi. I always ream the ridges because new sharp rings go slightly farther up the cylinder when you have new rod bearings. The new rings slam into the ridge breaking piston ring lands or rings. That bit me hard once. On the whole I agree, tho. I hate boring, too. I ream just enough to clean up ridge and quit, followed by honing evenly just enough to remove glaze. If the ridge is significant, I look for another block.
Love it. Video without the fluff, music and other BS. Straightforward facts from a seasoned muscle car veteran. Thanks Tony, keep it real.
We used dingleball hones in aircraft engines (old-school pistons) to get the 45deg crosshatch. And that was a pain in the ass moving the hone up and down fast enough!
Amazing to me that this gentleman figured this out physically. Absolutely makes sense that the rings cannot catch-up or expand quickly enough. Never would have figured that out, you are amazing to have the sense Sir! “Cool Diagnosis”
Uncle Tony the postman nor rain snow he will always come through with a great way to explain how to make the most of your engine
Ps hi uncle Kathy regards Anthony from down under
Remember Bob Glidden back in the old days racing ProStock . He was totally against engine stands, he reckoned they stretched the bores. He used to rebuild most of his engines on the ground in hotel parking lots. I wonder what his back is like nowadays
mostly decomposed
I am With You!!! I will Never Over Bore an Engine again!!!
I have a 73 340 w/ screwed tapers on all cylinders. So BAD my ring gap was 0.40-0.82 over spec on top of 0.40 overbore. I re-honed making Heavy Crosshatch on cyl walls. I ran Hastings Cast rings (afraid molys wouldn't seat) for 7 yrs & 95K.
On yours, (like mine) all attention was on the upper cyl walls. On your I think they Neglected bottom cyl walls & they weren't holding oil (not enough Crosshatch) causing your issue. We'll never know for sure but Your Experience makes me realize how fortunate I was w/my 340. My 340 904 (B&M trans pak) really pulled hard barking 3rd gear at 95-97mph. In '97 I ran my 74 Cuda w/2.76 rear end to 164mph at TMS (just completed). They need rubber put down on the track. I did my part.
The lifter issues caused by piss poor Harding of the metal bites the Big 1
I Greatly Appreciate You for Sharing All Your Real World Experience!!
PS: "the know it all's" don't know Crap! don't let it bother you. Most have NEVER BUILT AN ENGINE!!
so it's like floating the valves but with the piston rings.
Never would of thought of that in a million years
Yeah, me either - I would have instantly suspected weak valve springs
Dude, you are the freaking man. The things you talk about might be one time experiences but the physic concepts apply throughout the the engine entirely. I always knew about valve springs not keeping up but I never ever ever heard anyone mention pistons rings not keeping up.
I have repeatedly heard that if you leave the ridge it will break rings or lands. Neither is true with a little bit of preparation. Round the ridge ever so little, make sure your piston stops in the same location, and mind your taper. Big or small it’s true for them all. Over boring is an unforgivable sin as it may cause the cylinder to blow out. Yep, been there and done that.
I used to keep an old 567D piston at the door of the shop for an ash tray. Most people didn’t know what it was while others would marvel at a piston that is 8.5 inches in diameter. I would just shrug and say “oh, that’s the little one.”
Keep up the great work Uncle Tony.
Thank you tony for your videos. In the early 70’s my dad had a 1970 chevelle and a GTX 440. Long story is I’m the youngest of 5 boys. Everybody is gone now. And old school chevy and doing my own BASIC work. Lol. Tying to remember the wording and such I’ve heard growing up. Struggling pretty much. I’m grateful I’ve found your videos. Your a dying breed we didn’t have a lot of money but my dad made. It work. For ALOT of reasons you remind me of him. Thanks again and I’ll continue to watch and LEARN.
This type of thinking is what separates the real mechanic from the shade tree. I'm in complete agreement with this guy. Straight, smoothe symmetrical bores are one of the two speed. secrets, the other being a true, straight and balanced rotating assembly.
Perfect setup for derby cars when the engines run out of water they don't cease up because the Pistons are loose at the top and I've seen that with the dead set of valve springs right a certain RPM the Springs would not work properly especially when you have a solid lift engine cam I mean and you don't loosen up the Rockers when you put it in storage for the winter
BRING THAT TRUTH TONY!
I stopped working on cars a long time ago but I love this show
Tony you are amazing. I would never thought of that. I figured nosing over on top end would be fuel air or ignition. Not taper but makes total sense. You have a great way of explaining things even I can understand
Great advice, he is spot on. Been building for years and have never failed with this rule.
My buddy mike did this to his Pontiac formula, we were young, to young guys me an him, I was 19 he was 20, car sounded great just fell on it's face after it hit about 4,000 rpms!!! We were f**kin stumped, tried everything ran the same. This is a good video for someone building there first engine, this mistake will ruin your day! Another good one Uncle Tony!
Great Video on how to find other people's screw ups. LOL
Was always taught by my Uncle to just hone up and down. Until there was a nice clean cross hatch. Pattern in the area the piston traveled.
Don't ever over do it. And check often until you get that pattern!
Now as Far as boring goes plus 10 is okay for most Engines. When you try 20 or gasp 30. You can ruin a block and waste a lot of time.
My Uncle had a Friend. He Bored his Chevy 409 .030 and ended up with water in his Oil Pan! LOL
Thats the best tip for any home builder . Probably the # 1 cause of failure . That and oil clearances . Great information as always Tony
If they are that worried about the little ridge all they have to do is take it out with a ridge reamer then it will be even with the rest of the cylinder and won't have to worry about breaking any rings
Yep, that's what we used to do.
Tony doesn't seem to find it necessary, or at least by watching his vids the last 2 years. I guess because he is focused on engine building with only the "essentials" of the home mechanic...
@@kramnull8962 yeah I've noticed several builds that they have done that they never used the ridge reamer and that's probably the way he grew up doing it but I was taught to use one and I understand what could happen if the rings did hit it so I always play it safe and use it but I like watching his videos.
😲. In spite of my years of experience _I never would have thought of that!_ the rings not expanding quickly enough. I have to say that's a _brilliant_ diagnosis, way to go Tony!
No Bullshit no intro no sponsers no product placement just facts. Why I love this channel.
I've seen it too many times. I don't know if you still get one. But my grandfather gave me a special tool called a ridge reamer that cleans this right up. Its carbide tipped and a pass or 2 and you're good
Witness marks are also caused by the pistons natural tendency to slap in the bore. The wrist pin, which usually runs perpendicular to the cylinder bank, causes the ring to off center compress at the moment it changes its up and down direction. Of course combustion plays its part but there are more than a couple of factors for witness marks.
Yep, along time ago I honed my ridges down and ended up honing the entire block .010 over. I didn't check taper or any of that. I must've done something right because my 400 ran really good after. I guess it was happy loose or it was the new rings. That's good looking out uncle tony.
It may just be me but after 15 years a mess with engines I still have a machine shop do a hone when I have them check for flatness
Thanks Tony.
I have a 98 Dakota and I did the same thing. Searching for that one thing that is holding it back.
I bought her in 2016 for 1500 and did my usual go over but still was losing power at about 3 grand.
Every now and then I got it in me to try and figure out why, but not until I watched one of your videos a week ago that it clicked in.
I know my motor had a hard life, and now thanks to you I why I loose power. No plans to fix it, but at least I can stop looking for whats holding her back.
That's it.
See ya tomorrow.
uncle tony- this is why you are so good. you get into the details of a problem and kick it around in your head and find the problem and solution. well done! how is uncle Kathy?
She's kickin it!
Oops! Didn't finish my thought. We used a ridge reamer then used the ultra precise gauge to see if we were good. Finger nail. As long as everything measured straight and round (using a new top ring and feeler gauge, also tacitly precise). If everything checked out, used a flex hone just to scuff up the glaze. Block was done. 😎
Yeah I know a guy that ball honed his block to "clean up the walls". Damn cylinders were hour Glass shaped when he was done. Pretty much got a 40 over bore for his troubles.
Excellent videos as always! My mechanic told me I was being thick for using the ring and feeler gauge method, and that I should just buy a dial bore gauge.
Well look at this! Uncle Tony confirms that the method works! 😁 I'll take Tony's word over that of a fitter that charges £70 an hour to change an alternator any day!
I appreciate the protip on using a ring to measure top and bottom to check for taper. I don't know why I didn't think of that...so much easier than using a telescoping gauge.
And... it works! You can take an old pushod or a piece of metal tubing using the fingernail as a guide edge to get reasonably square in the bore - run around the edge and voila.
Thanks Uncle Tony for that nugget. Usually I have them bored but certainly have been guilty of this error from time to time.
Your the best at explaining what is going on in an engine.
Ever watched "This Old Tony"? Excellent metal-fab entertainment. Binge watch him for some really nerdy jokes. After Uncle Tony of course
This Old Tony is freaking awesome, just as this channel is :)
Gordy Kilcollins I get a kick out of the witty banter on that channel
This Old Tony single handedly switched me from TV to RUclips. Unfortunately it's hard to find anyone in Knoxville, TN who's heard of the channel. Maybe some Oakridge, TN lab engineers. They may Nerd-Out on that type of entertainment.
@@duncandmcgrath6290 damnit! Unfamiliar vocab! Time to look up "witty banter". Limited vocabulary round East Tennessee.
Yes that dude is hilarious. Welding Tips and Tricks is a great one if you want to learn to weld or just pick up pointers. Same kind of style.
I like this guy's teaching style. He has a huge amount of common sense, and it's obviously backed up by experience.
When it comes to Blocks I always just send it to machine shop to bore /hone then I know its good to go with new pistons/rings, cost couple hundred $ and worth it, you got a runner!
Faaark - I might go and build that 383 I have in the shed. It is a 70 block and it's about the same as your's.
You are a blessing and the world is extremely lucky you are willing to give advice that is so amazing. I dont believe even a university will teach you this. Its crazy the knowledge you give us, you're like a auto tech mechanic god.
I am guessing that one needs to uninstall the pistons and rods out of the bottom of the engine! I have been doing it all wrong! Don't necessarily understand how one overbores a block from the bottom. Only engines I know that one has to do that are old Mercury outboard, two stroke, inline, blind hole boat engines. I want to believe that this is to teach people not to go crazy with the the ring ridger. Stop being a fool ass hack and remove material from the block with a hone thinking you can go back with stock rings. I am pretty sure that this is what the man is talking about. Building engines is a great skill. One truly does feel their way through the process. There is a ridge at both ends. Don't make your cylinders a hourglass. Pure and simple. From a long haired MOPAR guy to another. .... You are truly talented Tony.
Hey Tony hope you’re weekend is great!!
whacky pax
😈😈
hot rods makes my dick Hard!!!!
Hey uncle tony I’m a new Yorker that moved to Pulaski Tennessee and I love your videos and I’ve been learning a lot from watching them keep up the good work buddy
Your wisdom and common sense caught me off-guard. Very refreshing! I also appreciate the pin about not using ridge reamers. Thank you.
I've autopsied an engine like this. Fresh rebuild, honed by hand with a drill, and ran fine all the way through break in period. Once the engine was broken in and the guy took it up the rpm range, it got worse and worse each time.
~Suddenly lost all power and pushed a bunch of oil through it. The cylinders had been honed out to a taper from bottom to top , and the rings all came out in multiple pieces from opening and closing.
It had to be taken to a machine shop to be honed .030 to overcome the taper, and a bunch of new parts. Nothing like paying for a second rebuild, right after the first rebuild.
Tony, just wanted to say how much I enjoy your videos. It’s refreshing to see common sense approach to automotive endeavors without what I call “perfectitis. The magazines and tv shows would all have us believe you can’t build a good engine unless you have all high dollar stuff. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing your knowledge with others. You also are inspiring me to start a channel of my own. Rock on brother!
Great info, UT! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
This is absolutely the best place to learn anything auto related. Tony is the man!
I love it when people use a ridge reamer, then they bring it in to me to fix it. $25 a hole to bore because you not only created lots of cylinder taper, it's also .010" +/- out of round. Then they use a $20 finger hone on it and really screw things up. Not all of them end up this way, but enough to keep me busy for the last 30 years.
I actually appreciate this video. There is this phobia that has been created in the engine world that says nobody can ever touch shit at home. You always have to take it to a damn shop. What a crock. I've built more engines at home that probably anyone and I did it on lunch money. Invest in the tools to do the stuff yourself and learn it. Now if you have millions of dollars and you just want to donate then hey be my guest and just cut me a check and put it in the mail and I'll do it for you. I'm building a 55 Chevy 2 dr post right now Tony and I have 3 motors in the garage. An old 283 setting under a wall shelf, a 350/010 block with the heads off, upside down setting on an engine stand and a 327 large journal in an 010 block that I've been tearing down and inspecting, on another stand. I'm going to put a set of 906 Vortecs on it maybe and I'll do very little porting, as TONY has discussed in another video, or hell I might just keep it old skool and run some double humps or some other small closed chamber head. I haven't decided yet. Been building motors for probably 40 years now and my best advice is that Tony is dead on here. Don't drink the Kool-Aide people. It's all hype. Build your own stuff and be proud of your work and take your time. Most of you won't be drag racing every single weekend anyway. Take the rest of the money you saved and buy an S&P 500 index fund and thank me when you retire with millions of dollars that you saved. Great video Tony and we would have made great neighbors here in Missouri. Keep that damn snow your way buddy...lol
I just have it ridge reamed and then hone it. I agree with you on over boring, you lose strength. Chuckle at these other guys on you tube who not only overbore but also boost the snot out of it, are gonna end up with a blown out cylinder at some point. The reason I have my rebuilds ridge reamed is I've heard tales of pistons getting stuck in the ridge after a rebuild, because tolerances might have changed and piston is traveling just a little farther up the cylinder.
I bought a 5.2 magnum from a 98 1500....almost no bore wear....bore gauged almost dead nuts...so I just honed for new rings....cleaned everything and bought a re re ring kit along with other items including a timing chain tensioner and valve spring kit from hughes ...got a deal on comp cams 20-604-9 roller cam and double roller chain and my crosswind intake should be here soon...all for under a grand.....going in my 86 D150 ....Have a 72 Dart that already has a built 360...
They damn near bore the block
.010" with hand honing only 3" into the cylinder. Ive bought a few motors done like that.Instantly have to bore it .030" just to get a common made piston.They dont make many .020" bore pistons these days and we always hone w/torque plates and you're correct about over boring we have guys at the track that want us to bore em 060" and we dont really like going over 040" on stock cast iron blocks and thats for stroker combo and thats after a thorough sonic test inspection. Siamese bore blocks are better at handling a big bore of course. For drag racing we do 1/2 an 3/4 fills which help keep the roundness to the cylinders with bigger bores.Love the videos keep em coming.Mopars for life.
Great vid again. THIS is why if I pay for any machine work, I pay to have the hone work and maybe balancing done. They can do this so precisely and quickly that I can do something else that is more in my strike zone.
Great explanation on this video.
I never use ridge reamers. If the block has enough of a ridge you can't knock the pistons past it, it really needs to be bored. I bore most everything if the taper is bad. When hand honing I use a Sunnen or Lisle ridged hone in a three step process (roughing stones to clean it up and remove material, finishing stones to set the proper texture, then a plateau stone/brush to give the final finish). Sometimes I will use a very fine dingleberry hone at the very end instead of the plateau setup if the rings call for an extremely fine finish. I usually can keep the taper within about a half thou hand honing. But I run my engines loose so its not an issue with a half thou taper.
Great info. Hard to find this good advice. Imagine if your local experienced engine builder had to explain this to every inquiring home builder? Thank you UTG and youtube.
36 years later I think you answered the question on why my snomobile wouldn't run. I had a small shop rebuild it and we could never figure out why it had this problem. I ended up selling the machine because we couldn't make it run properly. And just like you say, it would launch but as soon as the rpm would come up it would fall on its face
If you're really worried about the witness mark you can use a ridge cutter, it doesn't go below the witness mark so it can't affect the bore.
You clearly didn’t understand this video
That’s very good information Tony,I bet that engine losing power at high rpm was a nightmare to diagnose, also great idea on measuring for bore taper, I had a 390 FE that had a small ridge at the top, i was worried about the new rings butting against the ridge so i cut it out with a ridge reamer, honed the cylinder wall, put new rings in it, ran just fine for a low budget build. Thanks for the information
You're the man keep us younger guys from screwing parts up
Your advice is golden to those of us that can’t afford to hand a machine shop $1K.
I haven’t found this old school knowledge anywhere else.🤘
Excellent lesson. I never would have though to use an old ring and a feeler gauge, had you not taught it.
Affirmative. As an experienced engine builder and experienced forced induction technician, I can confirm. Hone until boring becomes absolutely necessary. _Especially_ with Forced Induction. It’s a lot easier to destroy your cylinders with a bore than with a hone.
You are the Ghuru uncle Tony I note all your great tips down for when I get round to rebuilding the 1970 Hemi I brought last year to put in my 70 Challenger Vanishing point clone that's currently got a 440 Magnum in her thank you.
If the top piston groove has too much gap, be careful where you put the ring spacer after machining. I've seen a 383 tap like crazy, as the rings hit the top ridge. Little known fact...ciggie smoke kills corona-chicken-super-virus, so you're good.
That's a cool easy way to measure the bore taper thank you unk
Right, no more than one thou (0.001") difference in ring gap measured at top and bottom of stroke ... ingenious.
Btw, does the one thou difference equating to a three thou taper depend on a specific stroke length? Or is that a general rule for any engine?
What we used to do is just ream the ridge where the witness mark's are then hone the cylinder to make the cylinder close to the same dimension from top to bottom and we didn't have to fight the witness ridge when installing the ringed up pistons.
You can't guess at the taper and out of round. Must be measured with a Mic. No amount of ring replacement is gonna fix that, you need machining. That's why rebuilt engines are not $500 bucks anymore.
No, you absolutely can measure it by ring gap. Out of round can be checked by backlighting the rings
@@UncleTonysGarage Yeah but tony what does a decent set of mics cost? you can get em reasonable and learn to use them. Never go astray by absolutely knowing. That's how I roll. :)
There are 100 places to learn to use a dial bore gauge. This is the only channel on RUclips teaching how to use a ring and feeler gauge for a mic and explains the legit science behind it like knowing that gap difference/pi = bore taper. Just enjoy the channel for what it is and celebrate diversity!
I know how to use the various t-gauges and micrometers. It's a lot easier to drop a ring down the bore, push it flat with the top of an old piston, and check ring gap.
We were rebuilding a dd15 engine (14.8L inline 6 diesel for a semi) in the shop and it has wet liners and the block was warped a little to the point it put the cylinder 3 thousandth out of round (it’s what caused it to blow up the first time before we rebuilt it) so it just goes to show how such a small error will go a long way
Excellent video all is info to guys who are problem solving an engine with machine mistakes robbing your wallet an sanity love it
Uncle Tony dropping some knowledge on us.
Good info. I see a lot of engines come into the shop where guys do exactly what you explained, and they can't figure it out.
Almost like Ring Flutter. Had an engine that started doing that undetected. N2O helped find it in a hurry. Well used forged pistons are like that. Used a dingle ball home to clean the carbon enough to get pistons out. No deglaze, just a set of double moly rings and back to work. If it lasts the summer, cool. If not, bore and hone from the machinist.
Good stuff. My 4 bolt 350 is .030 over and I just honed it and threw it back together with new rings and bearings. About the 4th time I put rings in it. Big ridge again. This time, when its done, its done. Its had a hard life anyway, been in 4 trucks and 2 race cars. I'm going to run it on the street until the plugs start fouling from oil. Lol. It does have good Childs & Albert racing rings though. 😂
Great video. 12 thou. Is an incredible amount of bore taper. So is 7 thou. One never wants more than 3.
Amen to all of that. Between thinwall castings, core shift and corrosion, boring is risky.
Awesome info I never would've thought bore taper could cause a loss of power above a certain rpm.
“Total phobia about boring engines “. I’m with you on that. Takes away structural strength. And when an engine wears after an over bore. It’s done.
Meaning that people or machine shops are overbore happy. At least in my experience. Say an engine can take an .040 overbore and retain some stability. After a few years of use, the wear reaches a point where you can’t overbore anymore. You have a choice of sleeving the block ($$$$) or just chunking it. Tony says not to worry about that witness mark. Leave it be. It’ll run fine.
P.S. they don’t make these engines anymore. Supply is dwindling.
jerrytee Two instances come to mind. First my 1970 318 Plymouth. Original owner was emphatic on 3k mile oil changes. I took the heads off for a burnt valve at 140k. There was not a ridge you could catch a fingernail. “ oh , that’ll need a.030 overbore “ I was told. Put the heads back on drove it to 227,000 miles. Always started with just a quick twist of the key. 1500 miles to qt. of oil when I sold it. Overbore would have been a waste.
Second was a 327 Chevy. First run engine. It did have a tiny ring ridge. Took it to a machine shop for hot tanking and hone. “Nope , needs an overbore. .060. It’ll take it”. I don’t want my engines to “take it”. A couple of years of street use and that block is worn beyond any reasonable use. That’s “overbore happy” in my opinion. Sure I should know what it’s needs, it’s fighting the mentality that every engine needs machine work once it’s apart that’s annoying.
@@jerrytee2688 Overbore Happy means boring it out 30 or 40 when you only need to go 10 or 20.
That's what ridge reamers are made for isn't it? I've seen rings break from hitting the top ridge of a bore. As far as overboring an engine...on street/weekend fun drivers, after I take the ridge off, I only have the machine shop take them far enough to clean up the bore and give the proper ring finish. Hell, I just had the block from my 77 GMC K-35 sleeved back to standard so I could keep the original block (after 3 rebuilds, my 454 was already .060 over). I take the ridges off in my home shop but leave boring/honing to the local pros. For my race engines though, every block gets measured for alignment/core shift, checked for cracks, then X-rayed for cylinder wall thickness. Believe it or not, I prefer to start with a stock 400", two bolt main GM casting. The 400 sbc has a bad reputation for overheating but I love them! Why 2 bolt mains? 2 reasons...1)GM didn't do ANY 4 bolt blocks correctly back in the day. They drilled the outer bolts straight into the main webs when they should've "splayed" the outer bolts. Drilling them straight promotes cracks in the webs. 2) ANY 400 sbc is tough to find these days. Guys (or girls) that have a 4 bolt main 400 (or anything else) think they have something special, therefore, worth A LOT of cash. I'm better off buying aftermarket 4 bolt main caps and having the block drilled for the splayed outer bolts. I currently run a stock GM cast 400 block in my Camaro street/strip car. It's bored/stroked/clearanced (with a Callies crank and 6" rods) to 427". It runs low 9s in an all steel 74 Camaro. Of course it's got a full cage and safety equipment but it's also street legal. Yes, my wife and I do take it out on the street on nice Sunday afternoons just to terrorize the local "tuner car" children lol!
Just the info I needed to hear right now! Thanks Uncle Tony!
I ridge ream then start at bottom where there is no wear set hone tension as you lift up to worn portion hone speeds up push back down repeat. Re-set tension repeat as you hone it out you will rise higher and higher. And if you don't know how to measure the bore you shouldn't be boring s block because you should be measuring it as you go. I've hand honed 30 over no problem.
You said it backwards, .003 gap difference is .001 bore diameter taper. Very interesting concept.
tony levand Glad someone else heard that and knew Uncle Tony reversed the ratio. Pi =3.14
I agree.
UTG Making the complicated simple. Great show Uncle.