Why Shields Are OP In Valheim
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2021
- In this Valheim guide, we talk about why you should favor a good shield over good armor and how damage negation works vs damage reduction.
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♫ 𝙊𝙪𝙩𝙧𝙤 𝙈𝙪𝙨𝙞𝙘: Spark of Excellence
By The Talented @xXasdfMAN12Xx AKA: Sean Wolf
#Valheim 
Игры
I love that you can parry ranged attacks. It's like they just go "woooooah that was crazy"
The parry of a ranged attack in Valheim or Mordhau will always carry a more resounding awesomeness that a jedi only wish they could do with a "civilized" space sword.
🤣🤣🤣
Omoiwa mo shinderu!!
Archer Skeleton: NANI!???
😂😂😂
Yessss dude exactly
giant troll with a log for a weapon = ~60 dmg
tiny baby goblin with a stick= ~100 dmg
um.....
It's a +3 stick though.
It’s not about stick size, it’s about how effectively you’re using it. If you know what I mean
@@andreysobol1984 "it's not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean."
Obviously you've never tried to cross an ocean in a row boat. 😅
@@molotovgrey If you're built different enough, the rowboat is unnecessary.
Troll ? Randmon mosquito go brrrrr
I just want to thank the troll for participating in this experiment
What about blocking the most dangerous of all enemies, the falling tree? 😂
I take 0.7 dmg from falling trees now lol. Fully upgraded padded armor.
I’ve got 150+ hours in and I still die to trees. I’ve never had to get armored up to collect wood before 😂
Haven't died to a tree yet in 50 or so hours.
And I build ALOT
1st thing I died to was a tree
Just have better Armor silly
Not OP at all, well balanced with the stamina drain and fact that it doesnt negate any negative status effects. A sheild will rarely save you from running out of stamina or being over run, it's simply doing it's intended purpose for 1v1 fights, like a shield should.
Umm so a troll should be able to get blocked? I think trolls should to unblockable dmg
@@squeak5242 erm no... But I do think they should take away way more stamina when you do block them. That way it makes more sense because you just took the force of a swinging tree. It would be immersive because you would then be exposed for a follow up attack. Unblockable damage should only be exclusive to magic or the supernatural.
If you parry you can avoid the effects. For example I parried Bonemass and negated the poison he would do
@@squeak5242 that's an issue, but not with the shield, it's with trolls. I think the devs put trolls early in the game because they are really exciting and you get players to the point where they can have an exciting experience early. In reality trolls should be later game enemies. I imagine we will have some enemy rebalance as the game gets closer to leaving early access
Anyone else constantly updating RUclips looking for videos of Valheim?
I'm playing the algorithm as much as I'm playing the game at this point
Mabey....
Damage Formula is
if armor less than half damage: damage - armor
else: damage² / (4*armor)
Example if the Troll hits you with 60 damage:
30 Armor => 60-30 = 30 damage
90 Armor => 60²/ (4*90) = 10 damage
i think this must be in every game
So one less point of armor and it jumps from 10 to 61?
@@richardboatwright4919 No, it should be continuous
@@richardboatwright4919 plot it on a line. 100 Damage. from 0 to 50 Armor you get Flat line: 0-50% Damage reduction, from 51 onwards you get a slowly Flattening curve. 75 armor gives you 66.6% Damage reduction. 100 armor gives you 75% damage reduction.
reduce damage, more armor than enemy attack? efficiency goes down. 125 armor = 80%, 150 Armor = 83.3%. BUT at a certain point Damage becomes so low to be trivial.
"armor doesn't matter just block"
This is a man who's never been surprised by deathsquitos. You can only block attacks you see coming.
You can hear them coming.
Those things are the real bosses in the game
“Death has wings”
its hard to get surprised by something if you have situational awareness....
You see they reduced damage from em? HAHAHA
I don't really call it OP. Its just done well. Stopping damage is one thing, but you still have to be vunerable when you hit back. This is a good combat model. I love it.
You need a lot of confidence to be sure that you are always aware of all the enemies around, because if you get surrounded or if you are surprised by an archer it can be very hard to block everything.
True but repositioning yourself isnt difficult
@@devintompkins9626 you can never know what level archer or mob it is that surprises you. Getting sniped by a lvl 3 Draugr archer hurts pretty bad even with armory, but getting hit without that armor your health is little to none. And that lvl 1 draugr you were about to kill hits you with his little axe when you're staggered and shwacks you. I've lost count of the amount of times i've been surprised attacked.
Always when there are multiple mobs your shield won't save you cause they'll hit and you'll lose stamina fast while trying to block them, trying to kite them all, hit, and use your bow at the same time.
This is absolutely true. You can have full end gear armor and shield and maxed skill. A larger group of mobs can still run you out of stamina and leave you in a situation where you can't block, can't sprint away, and can't even attack back
The real problem with a shield that won't block all of the damage from, say, a Deathsquito, is that you will not be able to follow-up a block with a strike because if you don't block the full amount, you are guard broken (staggered). In that case you are open to receiving critical damage. It's even more dangerous if you are in low tier gear trying to parry the Deathsquitos because if you miscalculate, you may be 1 shotted, and even if you're not, you can only take a few hits. Keep in mind that Deathsquitos typically spawn in pairs. When you get to the higher tier ores, the first craft should be a shield, not armor. If you are in a situation of not having high tier armor, but you have a great shield, make sure you prioritize stamina over health in foods so you can turtle up without being guard broken and have enough stamina left to counter-attack.
The value of shields becomes less prevalent against multiple enemies. If you're in a scenario where you have 6 fulings attacking you, the shield can only block 180 at a time, and torch fulings will still set you on fire even when blocking. Good armor lets you capitalize on windows where you can dish out damage but may take a hit in return. Both armor and shields boast strong uses, but it's almost apples to oranges in the sense that their primary functions have overlap, but they are fundamentally different.
as for armor reduction, its a 1:1 reduction at or below half damage, so if you have 60 armor and take a hit of 120, you take 60 damage. anything after that follows a formula that I believe is something like (Damage/(4*armor))*Damage, so each point of armor past 50% of the damage taken reduces damage with diminishing returns
Parry
@@jimborimbo4375 You can't parry against multiple attackers attacking at different intervals.
*edit
Yout can't do that *and* attack or keep your stamina high enough to keep parrying.
They aren't op.. they are working as intended. Armour is neither op nor not. Both are circumstantial. When you have someone attack you from behind and in front a shield can only defend you from one attacker.. your armour will defend you from both.
Ol firespark there just likes to spam videos :) i imagine he dosnt beleive half the stuff he posts. Just content for clicks
to be honest shield are op. They probably intended to be op too. Op doesnt mean broken sooo XD
also yeah using shield wont give you intelligence to prevent you to have enemy to attacking you behind
the simple way to remember armor is to memorize what happens with you match the incoming dmg
If you have 20 armor and get hit with a 20 dmg attk, you will take 5 dmg (75% reduction)
If you have 80 armor and get hit for 80 dmg, it's the same formula (75% reduction) so you should take 20 dmg
If the attack is double your armor (200 dmg hit to 100 armor rating) the armor will reduce the blow by 50%
So if your in a biome that's appropriate to your current equipment, you should be somewhere between 50-75%. Generally speaking if you can't mitigate at least 50% you probably shouldn't be there.
I think the main difference is that if you make a mistake with only a shield, you're screwed without armor. You can't indefinitely block, eventually you have to attack, which can be hard if there's a lot of enemies. Second, every weapon can block as well, so to be fair you'd have to compare blocking with a shield to blocking with a comparable weapon. Third, there is a movement penalty to having a shield out that matches armor, though shields can be quickly taken off if you really do need the movement speed for a short burst.
Dude I just got Valheim and have been loving it, your video series on it is probably the best on RUclips. Really appreciate all the hard work and testing that goes into them. Thanks for helping me understand the game as I bought it kinda blindly.
You can see from all the random structures in the back this man is experimenting with literally everything.
I love the "fuling" name, its a really cute way to say "Ugly/Meanie" in Swedish.
parrying is insane, lets say your shield has 100 block power and a 1.5x parrying bonus, if you parry you can block up to 150 damage with an added bonus of staggering an enemy which will make the enemy take 2x damage (depending on your weapon's stagger bonus) when getting hit
Please do more videos of this game! Always nice when there’s a great commentary! Thank you!
Observation #1 - The troll was doing 50-70 damage across your tests. Observation #2 - Block is an obvious flat reduction of damage which is applied first. Observation #3 - It seems to me that Armor provides a scaling dmg% reduction based on the damage dealt. When dealing 50-70 damage (no shield), you were taking 80% reduced damage with 60 armor. But, with 16-36 damage (50-70 minus 34 shield block) you were taking 97% reduced damage. This would make sense as you don't want someone to be completely invincible by just standing there, however you do want them to feel powerful when facing weaker foes while heavily armored. A scaling damage reduction which never fully reaches 100% makes sense.
While I agree with you that damage negation is better than reduction, there is a point to be made playing alone against half a dozent enemies that attack you from so many sides. The shield will protect me from the drauger attacking frontally, but won't help me against getting shot by a drauger archer.
Trees are your friend... and stagsmasher for that cheeky aoe....
EXCELLENT VIDEO! TYVM for the info again. I have been learning alot from your channel since I just started playing. Currently started the bronze age this morning. Your videos on that subject helped quite a bit.
Can you shield a tree falling on you...asking for a friend.
For leveling Blocking really fast :
1) Find a Burial Chamber with Skeletons on it
2) Kite 3 of them to the entrance and jump on the rock before the exit
3) Resting on this rock, just manage your stamina with a "go in, go out" of melee range
4) Enjoy ! :D
Burial Chamber is legit how I leveled my Block and Sneak to 100. Lol
imagine having Odin and Thor as your final boss, and playing in 9 different world (from midgard to asgard). this game has so much potential.
if that was the case it wouldnt be called valheim would it
we're trying to impress Odin, not kill him!
Fight against loki & fenrir haha
you are doing a great jobs when i end up watching a video you made whenever i have a question about something in valheim ;)
don''t know why but most information is half baked until i see one of yours, amazing.
keep up the good work.
100k sub !! Finally !! Congrats ! Little milestone but you deserve every one of them and more. Glad to by part of the journey. Thx for all your work 😁
0:40 test subject troll reminds me of attack on titan lmao
I didn't need to watch this because I already knew all of this (and I do practise it a lot!), but I still did, because your videos are cool
This confirmed everything I suspected about shields. Good to know. Thanks!
As good as shields are, they are still not gonna save you from being one shot if your armour is bad. Multiple enemies, running out of stamina, getting attacked from behind, a stray ranged attack, mis timing an enemy's attack, etc mean you are going to get hit without your shield up at some point.
6:27 Be mindful though that when you're out of stamina, you can't raise your shield and still take full damage. Armor does help in this case.
He mentioned it later in the video
“If you have a choice between a weapon and a shield, go shield”
The day how to train your dragon teaches you something in a video game
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking of that.
But remember what sun tzu said: the best defense of a good offense
@@KramYEET Yeah, and a fist is a good offense; when paired with a shield that allows you to survive getting close enough. It's all relative. Compared to an 8th century archer, a 17th century musketeer would be overkill. Put that same musketeer against a modern Iraqi insurgent (training is similar militia style) and the AK-47 would win the day the same way a musketeer wins against an archer.
@@jamielonsdale3018 Actually..... the archer is more likely to hit....Muskets became popular because of how they pierce armor.....
Congrats on 100k! It’s well deserved! Keep up the great content
Man youve been a lifesaver ever since old Conan days, great to see you pumping out content on other games, im really enjoying valheim and im happy to see ill be able to get the good cheesey game tips from your channel! Congrats on 100k subs man earned it!
That is such a cool looking open weave structure!
In history, there were times when people fought wars with little to no clothes, but they carried a good shield.
Great video, I just got the game and was a little intimidated, now I feel better!
That was actually a good quick guide and video man.
it's the RISE OF THE SHIELD HERO!
Parry also increases your block amount by the parry multiplier, so if you have 100 block with a 2x parry multiplier you can parry up to 200 damage.
@Firespark81 I discovered your channel when searching for "what is Conan exiles", and stayed ever since. Thank you for all the useful information! It is interesting to watch, as well as helpful both for playing the game and for deciding whether a game is for me.
Thank you for these helpful videos. Been following you for some time now. Keep up the awesome work.
OP? More games need this games shield system
I know how much of a meme it is comparing games to dark souls but I love how it's nearly the same with parrying/blocking
Shields were super common for a reason. I would much prefer a good shield combat system to all the dual wielding flippy acrobatic ninja death twirls that are so common in mmorpgs.
You can, given the right equipment and skills, block ALL incoming damage.
How?
In the keybindings you can find block/parry, what this means is that normal blocking will just block the damage but then how do you mitigate all damage?
Press block right at the time when they hit you (practice with necks) it will parry their attack, stagger them AND 2 hits right after will be critical hits due to the stagger effect!!
Upvote so more can see this.
Not always two hits but usually two, and then you can double stagger them just from pure damage sometimes so you can get more than 2 critical hits.
The greydwarf brutes are good practice, you can usually 2-hit then block-parry and 2 hit again
So you have different bindings for block and perry?
Thank You, Highly Informative for my solo play!
I get that you console command this entire channel for and incredible amount of information, but I hope you actually got a chance to play this one legit it's a wild ride. With that being said, thank you for all the guides and tutorial videos they've helped my group out so much! Thanks again keep it up!
We just started playing this game. My friends and I went into a burial chamber and there was a lot of skeletons including a big one that attacked us. I was the only one with a shield and both my friends died pretty quick while I was surviving for literally 10 minutes with enemies that kept hitting me. I backed into a corner and slowly I was able to clear the burial chamber by myself. My stamina was able to grow faster than their hits so after 2-3 times blocking I was able to get 1 or 2 shots off. Shields are OP. I also took no damage with the tower shield. So I cleared it with 100% of my health remaining while both of my friends died in under a minute.
Tip: use the skeletal hammer thing, and before opening a door, just smash a few times in front of it. You can kill stuff on the other side of the door 😁
Thanks to you, shields and parrying are gonna get redone in H&H now. I hope you are happy ;)
Awesome vid, thanks Firespark. I didn't realize it was mitigation vs avoidance. Glad to keep my sweet lookin troll armor a bit longer then :)
Great testing and demo - appreciate your efforts cheers
The thing not being shown here is dealing with multiple enemies. Sure you can block that, but you end up without opportunities to attack unless their attacks all synchronize
do u want an ez game or a survival?
love how you test stuff before saying anything, a true scientist
Great video. Will be upgrading my block power now :D
I thought I was crazy for running around with troll hide still. Thanks for the validation 😆 👍
Parry allows you to perform a critical hit when enemy is destabilized really good tactic agains hard enemies :D
Yep. Trolls become trivial once you learn how to parry correctly.
After trying and failing to parry a troll's attack I went back to my tower shield. I love me my tower shields.
whats the difference ?
@@Deniz13 Tower shield blocks way more damage but can't parry.
You can parry trolls with blackmetal shields. Might have to do with parry force stat. Parrying and dealing extra damage is more efficient.
Yep. I just suck at timing it. Better to block the damage than try to parry and eat a face full of tree-club.
Another good thing of tower shields is that with it you can still throw your spear/javalin while you cant do that with the round shields
I just appreciate the demonstration and explanation and a Shield and Sharp Edge player up close. Bow from range. But now i understand the mechanics and from the other Shield Parry video, i think i got things.
very high quality video. keep it up!
how does the blocking with battleaxe compare to shields blocking?
have you done a video on damage types and what enemies are weak to what type? or what type of damage they deal?
love your Videos man, really helpful!
Congratulations to 100k subs man!
If you hit any enemy while they're staggered, you get a critical hit on them.
You get the staggered bonus its not a crit
@@moss__ Yeah that - they called it a critical hit - and it is on most enemies.
@@moss__ depending on how many people you have playing - gets harder the more you have playing.
"@moss depending on how many people you have playing - gets harder the more you have playing." wat
@@moss__ Yeah the enemies are tougher the more people you have playing.
The game seems to be using DR/DT system; Damage Reduction/Damage Threshold. Shields use DT meaning they negate up to their Threshold then spills into damage. Armor is using a DR system where 100 armor = 80% damage Reduction with each point equaling .8%
Hey @FireSpark81 These Valheim videos are great. Very high quality. They've really helped me a lot, since you cover a lot of information that other people do not.
Can you do a video on intermediate cooking, and advanced cooking in Valheim? Specifically, once you get out of the starting area, what are some easy and effective foods sources you can transition to, that are better than berries and cooked meat?
your videos are amazing dude ! subbed for sure
this is true when fighting a single enemy but it seems way too often you are fighting multiple enemies which you cant parry, block all of them and still have a window to return fire without getting hit. you will get get often in this game, armor is a must imo.
Video idea with shield, show timing on when to block each enemy to get the stun. I know some of the lower ones myself, but I'm still not even to bronze age :)
Subscribed :D Great video, didn't really use a shield until now.
Grats on 100k Subs :D
The virgin shield user VS. The chad i frames roller
You got it backwards. Chad's don't run from anything.
@@gage824 ? Rolling isnt running
Still a form of retreat
@@gage824 ok
@@b00tybu77chks *wrecks kid in chad*
If u are interested I have a suggestion for a experiment, will the harpoon work on bosses like the dragon
thanks for the vids. Very helpful
Well done on the sub count man !
I trapped 3 necks in a narrow pit. I put a bonfire just close enough to the the sliver in the pit that I get the rested bonus. I jump in my little sliver of a corner with the bonus and just let them attack me multiple times a second. levels me up super fast afk.
Not sure how goblins are hitting harder than trolls...
Trolls be trolling with their hits... till its too late.
Yeah part of me thinks they should instead work on making goblin AI smarter rather than just hitting harder. I agree, it feels weird seeing these puny things merc the player but seeing trolls who can take down mid-tier trees require several swings to take down the player.
That or they need to consider damage scaling of some sort, but who knows! The game is still good for early access!
@@TSEizure idk, those little demon sure like to attack in horde and make a cirle around you so you have no escape
Maybe the actual monster is not done so they put the goblin further ahead in the progression to fill the gap for now
@Zwenk Wiel Oh I know that the balance is based on the location and biomes. What I'm getting at is I don't think that's the best way to balance a game like this.
I understand that you're not supposed to get to plains in the beginning - doesn't change my opinion that making most of the mobs there almost one shot players (players even in late game gear) is still poor balancing.
As I was saying earlier, I think they should explore other avenues of game balancing.
Maybe like all the mobs collectively get a stat boost upon beating a boss instead of some just straight up one shotting you upon exploring a new biome.
Or, as I said earlier, they make the AI smarter for tougher biomes.
I get that they almost HAVE to make the stats of the progressing biome mobs stronger, but that doesn't mean you have to make the stat differences completely outrageous.
Thanks for this, I was just wondering how all this worked.
Great video and testing, I appreciate your efforts. Also, what is that round structure you build there? :)
Will a shield block a divorce between me and my wife?
The divorce will block you from what is clearly a toxic relationship....
@@davidevans7477 Pretty sure that was a joke. Playing the game so much, it's going to cause a break up.
Now that’s a lot of damage!
funny how ranged can parry (stun). like the skelly goes. Whao! that was a good block (stunned). lol
Love these info vids
GREAT info and SUBed
Shield is all good until you use all your stamina shooting arrows at the first 2 furling's and then the third one appears, its a 2 star... dive roll, dive roll, dive roll... what's that buzzing noise?...
*wilhelm scream*
I like the idea but i like the Armor it looks good even it lows my movement speed when i fail to use my shield my armor saves me and thats what matters to me
Grats on 100k
Good info, thanks.
As a radographer, I can confirm the power of shielding.
:P
I find it wired that a small Goblin makes more damage than a Troll.
@Ben S I already told the devs that I do not like that. I hope more people will do the same. I love the game but that is really not good. Also the Deathkito should be in the swamp and not a one hit killer.
I haven't worn Troll Armour since 'The Realm' back in 1996!. :D Good tutorial. thanks.
Just FYI while parrying, you get Parry Power * Parry bounes + blocking Power as the Max in coming dmg you can Parry. So it is fully possible to Parry trolls attack with un-upgraded Bronze shield or those double Hand weapons
85 swimming omg! I have no patience for that
U can use command to cheat with that
If your defense is higher than the attack of an enemy, then the game uses this formula to calculate how much damage they will deal to you:
(Damage/(Armor*4))*Damage
For example, a Deathsquito does 90 Pierce Damage. If you had 100 Defense from fully upgraded Padded Armor + Any Cape, you take (90/(100*4))*90 damage, which equals 20.25 Damage.
Now, if your defense is _lower_ than the attack of the enemy, we instead use this formula:
Attack - Defense
So let's swap out our Padded Helmet for a Dverger Circlet, changing our defense to 70. In that case, 90 damage - 70 defense is equal to... 20 Damage.
Unless I'm mistaken about something, this is how the game calculates damage. Having 89 Defense against a Deathsquito will make it deal 1 damage, whereas having 91 Defense will make it deal 22.3 damage.
Armor is weird in this game.
I've discovered what I missed. The game first checks to see is if your armor is less than _half_ of the damage of an attack, and if it is it will subtract your armor from the _full_ damage.
A Deathsquito does 90 Damage. So using our above examples, the game checks: Is their Armor above 45? If Yes, deal (90/(100*4))*90,equal to 20.25 damage.
With the Dverger Circlet example, it would still be yes and you'd take (90/(70*4))*90, equal to 28.9 damage.
If your defense was 44, you'd take 46 damage. If your defense was 46, you'd take 44.0217391304 Damage, which obviously gets rounded.
My questions and concerns have been answered.
Thanks for the math! I'm confused about "Unless I'm mistaken about something, this is how the game calculates damage. Having 89 Defense against a Deathsquito will make it deal 1 damage, whereas having 91 Defense will make it deal 22.3 damage."
(90/(89*4))*90= 22.75 ; where does the 1 damage come from? (even if there is no check)
@@Iffy50 his original logic missed that the switch to the ratio formula happens if your defense is 50% of their attack. He originally thought it was at 100%, which led to the wrong math.
Thanks again!
i have a dug up hole in front of my base where roughly 20 to 30 necks have wondered in. You can jump in hold ur shield up and gain block experience while taking 0.1 damage at a time. At first u will start to panic as ur stamina will run out real quick and the thought of dying to necks will make you quit until you realise that its only tickling. easiest way is to dig up a hole, kite a neck to it then push them in.
I honestly know something that I have tested. The trolls with no log have a double arm slam attack and I've never been able to block it! Would love for you to test and let me know!
you have to back up a little when you see it going for the slam, otherwise the AoE lands behind you and bypasses your shield.
Are you going to be redoing this in a few days?
If i've read correctly, if you parry it will block even more damage, and also while the enemy is staggered it will take increased damage.
I'd recommend having *both* armor *and* shield appropriate for the biome you're in, but if you have to pick one to upgrade "first", the shield sounds like a good starting place.
That being said, most weapons *can* block and even parry, with a few specific exceptions. So even if you don't want to carry a round shield, you can still get the benefits of blocking and parrying with whatever torch or two-handed weapon you like.
The normal Troll (without a tree) has a ground smash attack and a slap, the slap can be parried and blocked, however the smash can also be parried but the damage can't be blocked