@@einzelganger6664 What’s even more sad, and I can’t for the life of me remember which cast member said it, is that they said that if Lenny had survived Saint Denis, that he probably would’ve most likely stepped up into Hosea’s role as the moral heart and counselor of the gang
Its like when you get the first time high and you feel that buzz that feeling that you never going to get again because your body builds up a high tolerance of cannabis and you smoke more and more to get that same feeling but it leads you to nowhere and you become an addict a crack head lol to much internet for today
Same. I did a low honor play through my first time and wish I never did. Now I tell new players to finish with high honor and in chapter 6 complete the veteran and widow missions. For the reason why I only say "you'll understand when you get there" as to not spoil anything.
The biggest regret i have was just rushing thtough the story missions on my first playthough back in 2018... i didnt't understand how much more there was to this game
I gotta say that a snapping turtle feels like a pretty accurate animal for Hosea to be reincarnated as (1:56), calm and a bit slow, but dangerous if necessary. I miss him.
@@schwunkie I’m not very familiar with the nature of snapping turtles, however a quick google search tells me that they are in fact (in general) only aggressive if threatened. Even if that weren’t the case though it was just a comment, no need to dissect it and act like I’m insulting Hosea. He was a great character and I feel like this criticism of a small comment isn’t necessary.
@@mdsfhs I cut the snapping turtles heads off when I found that they invaded the pond, they was eaten my ducks, hadda kill em uncle Bob held em down with his boot and I took that shovel, took that suckers head right off. Only animal that I felt okay with Killin I hate those demagorgon demonic shits.
Hosea is dangerous they had an encounter at camp strangers were trying to look around but Hosea and I believe bill were blocking their way and Hosea subtly but in a frightening way told them “leave or else” I can’t remember exactly how he said it but it was pretty scary
@@Takaichi666- I just looked it up and he said something like “many of life’s most avoidable tragedies stim from our inability of basic comprehension.. at least that’s the way I’ve always seen things” then he kinda stood like he was gonna pull his gun and the strangers literally said “oh” and left 😂
You can discover his illness even earlier. In the snowy mountains at the beginning of the game you can see a conversation of him and Dutch where he coughs a bit. When you ask him about it, he waves it off saying it's the cold giving him the cough.
Common practice at the time really 😂 Even with the advent of industrialization, tobacco was a luxury commodity that was never wasted. If you find half a cig on the ground, no sense in just leaving it there when it could be yours.
@@SharpForceTrauma I remember a letsplayer hear bout Leviticus Cornwall being into sugar and she said “like…booger sugar?” And I commented how nope, sugar was THAT valuable back then. You could get shot over a bag full of the stuff depending on where you were.
@@Fizhy I know. It was joking. Anyway, I’ve been going hard at the game and now Arthur’s wealthy from selling gold in Chapter 2 and I’m glad you take the time to respond. And it could still be TB.
"I've excused you quite enough!" I don't know why, but I LOVE the way his Voice Actor read that line. Sounds like a grandpa has lost his patients with the stupid in the family.
Hosea really is like that grandfather who's seen everything, can differ from right and wrong, and simply cannot put up with the ostentatiousness of the younger members.
The first mission where he and Arthur went bear hunting is where I took a big liking to him his jokes and just how he talks to Arthur I was thinking “he’s such a sweet guy”
@@Takaichi666- I'm regretting not going fishing with him. Rn I'm trying to do every mission and every side quest and everything and usually I don't do that in game's
@@devonian0590 my first play through I didn’t fish with them my second play through I did go fishing with Hosea and Dutch and it was actually a good time Hosea is funny with his stories
It really hit me hard on my first play though when Hosea died. You can easily tell he genuinely cares about the people in the gang. When he turned around and just stared at Arthur at the bank, I had to pause because nothing could have held back the tears. Then Lenny I almost couldn’t finish the mission.
Hosea atleast doesn't die alone. I'm 63 and ain't doing good. The only thought that bothers me is being alone. Loneliness is the worst punishment a person can have.
There is nothing wrong with being alone, being alone is absolute freedom. Make the best of it, I use to not enjoy being alone. Now I practically love it and live for it, make the best of the situation. Sometimes having people isn't everything, I still see lots of folks, but only few am I genuinely close with. Just find a passion or something, maybe you can meet someone with that.
When I discovered this game 2 years ago, Hosea being ill was the biggest thing I knew in the game. But in overtime, when much more lore and secrets get found in the game, I just totally forgot that Hosea was ill until I saw this video. This game is filled with too much secrets that can last a generation without being found.
I honestly fear that we will never see its like again. I hope against hope to be proven wrong on this. But the way the industry has taken a nosedive in the last 5 or so years fills me with dread. No other games company has taken such time and care over their world building, characters, lore, backstories, mysteries, secrets and genuine in-game rewards for exploration than Rockstar. But even they handed over their GTA, “remaster,” to Grovestreet Games, resulting in a travesty that still made them a lot of money. Time and again the industry has proven that you can make more money with less effort, and time and again, fan loyalty has been rewarded with disappointment, confusion and dismay at the trash we get from the suits in their executive suites, compelling the developers to cut corners in quality and implant micro transactions, NFT’s and paywalls. We may well look back at RDR2 as the very pinnacle of quality story telling and open world perfection that gaming reached, never to reach those dizzying heights again. Like I say, I would rather be wrong about this. But my gut tells me that all gaming hopes will hinge on the next GTA title. If that turns out to be trash, it will still make money. But if it is better than all of the previous instalments and capable of rivalling Red Dead? . . . Well, Rockstar might just save the triple A industry? . . .
@@talkingedmma : It’s quite a while since I wrote that comment, I think? Yes, it does have a few draw backs, but they are forgivable, given what you get in return for your patience. I hate having my agency ripped away from me at those crucial moments when you play the story missions, for instance. There’s one way to earn that gold medal, and only one. So, get used to slow walking, enforced slow riding and having to watch lengthy, unskippable cut scene sequences, if you realise you made a mistake earlier and have to restart the mission. And god help you if you forgot to save just prior and have to use the wrong equipment, horses and unfamiliar weapons. No rewards for lateral thinking, problem solving skills or originality. And why in the hell can’t you rob banks in elaborate ways, from blowing holes in the walls, to tunnelling, to just holding the place up, like in several of the story missions!? That would have completed the circle for me! Until, that is, you have a random encounter, or pursue the skill tree rewards, at which point you’re a free agent, able to use your imagination and creativity to figure out how to lure a predator and set your own kind of trap, or hunt for a bounty, or commit a series of robberies, either getting away with it or leaving a trail of death and destruction in your wake, depending on which reward you’re going for. Or, like so many of us do, just remembering to save so you can attempt the most lucrative train robbery with the cleanest getaway, using a suspension bridge or tunnel as a tactic to stifle law enforcement, after robbing every individual, then murdering them to loot their corpses (they’re always holding out on you) blowing all the safes and raiding every last cupboard and chest, just to see what your tally is, for the sheer hell of it! Any game in which you can waste entire, lengthy, play sessions on gambling, shootouts, drunkenness, theatre going, early cinema, shopping sprees, private investigations, bounty hunting, animal hunting, relaxing fishing, horse racing and so much more, without EVER ONCE going near the main story missions, just losing yourself in a meticulously built, beautiful game, gets my money and time. Because, in the end that’s what it comes down to with me. Always the first and most important question I ask myself: Does the game RESPECT my TIME? When it’s just a giant Fetch-Questathon, with little or no in-game reward for completing it, other than adding stats toward completionism, I feel personally, viscerally insulted. I will forgive a game a lot if it has a good story and characters I can get attached to. But so many games (I’m looking at you, Starfield) actively waste your time with pointless fetching, punish lateral thinking and creativity, have bland, unforgivably stupid, morally blank, characters, blindly wandering about in a plot-hole-ridden story that makes less and less sense the more you think about it and actively encourages corporate-style immorality in the player in a flatly bonkers story that literally makes no sense! Like you said (and if you’re still reading this rant, thank you for your patience) the stars somehow aligned into this, “almost,” perfect game, where every character has a background, motives, logic to them. You even get that sense from the NPC’s when you do random stuff to them, like tormenting a passer by into taking a shot at you while you’re standing behind the sheriff, just so you can have him get murdered by the law, rather than drawing your own weapon, (Y’know? For a larf) because they’re so elegantly crafted. Now, it’s all about the, “parent,” companies and their shareholders. They get paid no matter what, and they have the law to back them. So, if that means laying off a bunch of staff, inserting micro-transactions and paywalls for progress, that’s not up to Rockstar. That’s up to Take Two, who owns them. And their motto comes from Goodfellas, “F’ck you! Pay me!” Now, they care about, “engagement,” which is a euphemism for, “time wasting,” because they measure everything about how long everyone plays, when they play, what they grind hardest for, their age groups, their income levels, etc. You sign away all your rights to privacy when you sign their terms and conditions, AFTER having purchased the game, in a contract that would NEVER stand up to serious legal scrutiny if anyone rich enough to take on Take Two’s battery of lawyers was to challenge them in court about it! And the Rockstar staff can’t even complain in public about all this, because they’ve all signed NDA’s which force them to give up their pensions, severance packages and even repay wages in some cases, should they break them by talking to the press. That’s why the truly creative minds behind Red Dead have all left now, like Dan Houser himself! That’s why I genuinely fear that, unless the punters seriously and collectively change their buying habits, we may well have passed the pinnacle of games as an art form. And Red Dead was it . . . Phew! I feel better for that rant. Like I said, if you moseyed all this way along my trail with me, then thanks for your patience . . . “Boah.” 😉✌️
Hosea's sickness is also a great way to show how much the gang has changed; early on, one gang member being sick is a concern for the entire gang. At the end, only a few members of the gang express concern or worry for Arthur (though I'll always have a soft spot for Bill trying to stand up for Arthur to Micah).
Very true, and yeah it was really touching seeing Bill always defend Arthur from Micah. There's even some hidden dialogue in ch 6 where Bill whispers to Arthur that Micah has spread rumors that Arthur has been saying crazy things about Dutch behind his back (which obviously isn't true). Just makes it more tragic that Bill sided with Dutch, not because he wanted to but because he didn't understand the situation, that's why he just looked confused when he did it. Even in RDR1, Bill admits he doesn't care for Dutch and that he's glad he's no longer there, compared to Javier who STILL defends Dutch in RDR 1, showing that Javier sided with Dutch out of pure loyalty.
I like to think it shows how things will end for outlaws regardless. Without hoseas death his sickness would kill him. Arthur's TB would be the gang falling apart instead. Dutch was falling apart before things spiraled and bill was gay so he would've gotten AIDS lmao Javier and lenny were of colour so would've been lynched eventually. My point is there's always something to kill ab outlaw and you can't escape that regardless of what you do.
@@fakeninja4447I know this comment was two months ago but what about the fact that javier points his gun upwards when the standoff at the end of chapter 6 happens? To me it always showed javier wasn’t sure either.
Arthur Morgan became more like Hosea when you play more in a high honour setting as the game progresses , he started picking up his wisdom & insight for real ✅.
Hosea and Arthur were already very similar, both fantasized of running away from the gang but both lost special people (Hosea lost Bessy, Arthur lost love with Mary and eventually lost his kid) so they both kind of missed that opportunity and are now the most loyal members of the gang because it’s the only family either of them will ever have. This also explains why both kept urging John to value his family and run away
considering hosea would of sided with arthur at the end of the game, I don’t doubt they were probably closer (if u do the greet options w hosea around camp they seem closer and nicer than with dutch)
The scenes of him getting over-the-top annoyed/angry at Sean/Bill actually got me. Like, dayum, I've replayed this game a few times already but I've never seen Hosea flying off the handle at any of the gang members before. Didn't know he could flip his lid like that. Only seen his calm and collected, a little more than occasionally sarcastic side so far. Then again he surely has seen enough sh*t in his life to not take any from anyone.
I mean they are on the run for their lives and you got Bill drunk and Sean sleeping on guard duty... I understand that he is pissed. It's that kind of irresponsibility that could them killed. Bit I absolutely agree. I was so surprised when I saw those scenes for the first time.
I would say view it as his character slightly cracking under the stress. Imagine you are all basically homeless and the fbi is up your ass with your family and you walk up to one of your sons (who you know is particularly irresponsible and stupid) is too drunk to help or asleep on guard duty. Even the nicest person is capable of snapping at someone when a particular pet is peeved.
If you watch the cutscene with Sean, Hosea actually throws a plate of what looks like food. The suggestion is there that Hosea was bringing Sean something to eat while he was on guard duty too - no wonder he flew off the handle like that
I always thought it was a glitch that Hosea keeps wearing the winter jacket throughout chapter 2. But now I'm convinced it's a symptom of his sickness that he needs to stay warm. Once we get to Lemoyne, he doesn't wear it again because it's a southern state which is known to be humid.
I thought it was a little jarring but I had to crack on with it. I did my best to remove the jarring aspect and a dissolve fade on each shot did that well enough.
I think it's most likely Hosea had Emphysema. Even today there is no cure for the disease, and the average life expectancy is just 5 years. The main symptoms are coughing and fatigue both of which Hosea showed.
“My dear Bessie went to heaven, while I’ll be going south” It makes me so sad to think Hosea thought that of himself, because while he was outlaw who did bad things, he was an outlaw who only wanted to punish other bad people and institutions, not innocent people. At his core, he was a really good and remorseful guy who everyone at camp cared about a lot.
I believe that Hosea was suffering from a decease like Bronchitis or Emphysema. If Hosea had the habit of smoking regularly, like Dutch and Arthur, there's also a probability that perhaps he had Lung Cancer.
Hosea doesn't have all the symptoms for Emphysema and Bronchitis isn't a "terminal" disease. The prognosis for Lung Cancer in 1899 wasn't five years (you'd be lucky to make it two, and bed ridden for the last six months). He has Pulmonary Fibrosis (Interstitial Lung Disease... scarring of the lung tissue). All of the symptoms fit: Shortness of breath, especially with activity... Dry, hacking cough that does not produce phlegm... Extreme tiredness and weakness... Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss... Discomfort in the chest... Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow... Bleeding in the lungs (usually only in the later stages and still not as much bleeding as either Lung Cancer or TB). The life expectancy for someone with ILD (even in 1899) was THREE TO FIVE YEARS (additionally, Hosea is rather gaunt, which could be explained by the loss of appetite/unexplained weight loss).
@@thebonesaw..4634 Cancers act differently on each organism. It's not only a common decease, It's a mutation of the cells. Different genetic, different reactions. Some people with cancer become walking corpses, but some other people who develop one or more types of cancer might still look normal and barely feel/show any symptoms. Besides, there's no way we could ever know how much time Hosea had left, since he didn't die by his sickness (Like Arthur). He was killed.
@@grimreaper6060 -- Normally, I'd agree with you. However, we know that Hosea has two to five years because Hosea says that's how long he has (whether he knows this because he's been diagnosed or whether he simply "feels" that's how long he has is irrelevant)... it's the information the writers of the game gave to us. So... based off of the information that the developers gave to us, along with the symptoms that Hosea was showing and the symptoms that Hosea was NOT showing... I can say with a great deal of certainty that it wasn't emphysema. I can also say that it wasn't bronchitis for the simple fact that bronchitis isn't terminal. I can also rule out lung cancer as well as a host of other terminal lung diseases for various reasons... It isn't COPD because people with COPD (even severe cases) easily live into their 70s and 80s (even in 1899). It isn't emphysema because Hosea doesn't have a barrel chest (which develops because the lungs greatly expand), and Hosea doesn't have cyanosis (blue tint of the skin due to lack of oxygen to the body's cells). It isn't Lung Cancer or Mesothelioma because the prognosis for both are generally shorter than 5 years (especially in 1899). It isn't Cystic Fibrosis - because that's a disease that develops in children. It isn't Bronchiectasis because the average life expectancy is 20 years from the point of diagnosis. It probably isn't TB because, once Arthur develops TB, Hosea doesn't say jack shit about it (if that had been Hosea's diagnosis, he probably would have mentioned it). _"You have TB? Holy shit! Me too!"_ Once we rule all of those out... we're only left with one major terminal lung disease... Pulmonary Fibrosis. And, wouldn't you know it... EVERY... SINGLE... SYMPTOM... FITS. Shortness of breath, especially with activity? CHECK... Dry, hacking cough that doesn't produce phlegm? CHECK... Extreme tiredness and weakness? CHECK... Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss? CHECK... Discomfort in the chest? CHECK... Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow? CHECK. Again... this is a game. Hosea isn't really sick, because Hosea isn't REAL. But, if he were, my bet would be on Pulmonary Fibrosis, simply because all of the symptoms seem to point to it more that they do towards any other terminal lung malady.
@@thebonesaw..4634 If not treated, Bronchitis can actually become an worse condition and kill a person. Though I still believe in cancer, since all the symptoms also fit. But your theory is not to be ignored. We need every useful informations we can get about this.
Actually, the first hint is in the very first cutscene--where Dutch kindly yet firmly instructs Hosea to stay and keep warm in the abandoned house in Colter when he asks what they're going to do next.
RDR2 is on another level than other games when it comes to details int he environment and writing. I love that there's still stuff to be found in it leading to great videos like this. Thanks for the vid mate
The wagon ride isn’t the first inclination of Hosea being sick, Arthur asks about his cough in the Colter camp very early on while him and Dutch are sat by the fire talking.
Arthur looked up to Hosea so much that he essentially became him in the end. He worries more for the others than himself and wants to make sure they're safe before he dies. Loved their dynamic.
Idk if Hosea's sickness was exactly subtle. Everytime I was in camp the man was coughing like he just took the rippinest, snortinest gnarliest hit off a bong I'd ever heard.
I have a theory, high honour Arthur takes more of the traits of Hosea which was always the Angel over the shoulder. And low honour Arthur takes more after his other less admirable father Dutch, which is more of a devil over his shoulder. Also I think Hosea suffered from some sort of lung cancer. But hard for anyone to know since it was in the 20th century when medical science knew what cancer was
Damn ive Played it 3-4 times and never did i ever suspect or saw hosea being sick. I think its mostly because i never was much around camp that much to know actual lore. Well done video again. Your rdr videos are best
:'( man imagine if Hosea managed to survie the bank heist disaster. I think he could have gave Arthur words of wisdom since both of their time were running out
Arthur could have lived longer if he wasn’t shot and didn’t shipwreck at Guarma. The almost dying twice, getting a bunch of water into his lungs during the wreck, and Guarmas climate triggered it. If these didn’t happen, he probably wouldn’t have shown symptoms for years, maybe decades.
Hosea is the foreshadowing to Arthur of what regrets you can have when you don't end your life on your own terms. Both had little time, but Hosea's illness, forlorn attempts to salvage the gang and untimely demise gives the player the context for the final chapter over how they want Arthur to end his days.
i like that at the very end making the point that arthur kinda took over hosea's job of being the voice of reason to dutch. i never once even thought about that but its spot on. great video brother
Hosea is one of my top 5 characters ... he is so intelligent, reasonable, kind ... but can also be quite scary if he gets provocated. He is someone you can respect and look up to - I was very affected by his death and I also think this was the final push for Dutch to lose his mind completely
you forgot when he clearly states in chapter 3 when you get his favor quest when hes making a tonjc he says something like “even with my illness, this thing kept me alive, imagine the wonders itll do with you”
Going through your mystery revisited playlist and just got this notification, perfect timing Fizhy and will probably be a good video about one of my favorite gang members. That turnip speech he gave reminded me of "I Never Picked Cotton" by Johnny Cash
@@Fizhyhis illness seems like COPD to me, look into copd an compare to hosea and its pretty spot on, my nan has copd so I kinda spotted it off the bat
"We're born with some dreams. We acquire others as we get older and we live out something else." Hosea's dialogue there, and the music you've chosen to place, work together so well. There's something eerily prophetic about what he's saying in that scene, and I think it's something that can be applied to some people's lives in reality as well.
It's easy to mistakenly write off Hosea's reasoning and resistance to Dutch's decisions as a product of age. Realizing he was near the end of the road gave him clarity just like it did for Arthur.
It's unlikely Arthur would have ever questioned Dutch without Hosea. And Arthur actually starts questioning him in chapter 4, before he gets sick but after Hosea tells him he needs to start thinking for himself.
It is touching how genuinely concerned the gang is about Hosea. I just started another play through and I plan on REALLY taking my time to hear ALL these conversations.
The more I look into the story, the more depressing it gets. Arthur’s sacrifice being in vain, the tragedy of Jack Marston, John Marston, not being able to escape, and now Hosea’s wish for everybody to just be safe before he goes to not be fulfilled.
You mentioned that Hosea's illness is a different disease from Arthur's because Hosea's is slower acting. I think though that Hosea also has TB. This is because TB can take years to kill some people while months to kill others. A famous gunslinger for example, called Doc Holliday, was diagnosed with TB around 1872 and died in 1887 from it. Sure Hosea was older than Arthur so he should've maybe died faster, but it's important to remember what Arthur went through. He was almost beaten and starved to death by the O' Discrolls and was stranded in an island for a long time. And depending on the ending you got he was beaten almost to death by Micah. Just wanted to point that out
There are types off TB. Arthur's one was also extremely aggressive. The full rdr2 story plays out over the last 6 months. Starts begin May, ends end November. And the beating and Guarma was was speeded up the process off Arthur's tb. Also Arthur never had a break anymore being on the run all the time..
Hosea has Pulmonary Fibrosis (aka Interstitial Lung Disease), the symptoms of which are: Shortness of breath, especially with activity. Dry, hacking cough that does not produce phlegm. Extreme tiredness and weakness. Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss. Discomfort in the chest. Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow. Bleeding in the lungs (usually in the later stages and still not as much bleeding as either Lung Cancer or TB). *The life expectancy for someone with ILD (even in 1899) was THREE TO FIVE YEARS* (additionally, Hosea is rather gaunt, which could be explained by the loss of appetite/unexplained weight loss). IDL (Pulmonary Fibrosis) is an umbrella term used for a large group of diseases that cause scarring (fibrosis) of the lungs. The scarring causes stiffness in the lungs which makes it difficult to breathe and get oxygen to the bloodstream. Lung damage from ILDs is often irreversible and gets worse over time. Many things can increase the risk of or cause ILDs including genetics, and certain medications... medical treatments such as radiation or chemotherapy can also cause it (but those weren't possible in 1899). Exposure to hazardous materials has been linked to ILDs such as asbestosis and hypersensitivity pneumonitis. People with autoimmune diseases such as sarcoidosis or rheumatoid arthritis are also at increased risk of developing an ILD. Smoking can not only cause ILDs, but can make the condition much worse, which is why anyone diagnosed is strongly encouraged to quit. Unfortunately, in many cases, such as idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, the causes may be unknown.
Hosea lived with TB longer because he wasnt constantly in strenous stress and doing physically demanding tasks. He was keeping himself warm and had been medicating himself with ginseng the entire time. Not alot of labor, and while he is a competent gunslinger, he was someone who would join the fights as a last resort Arthur on the other hand accepted his fate and is still leading a very physically active lifestyle on the weeks leading up to his death. Hunting, gunfights, fist fights, running. And trying to make things right. He didnt put effort to medicating or keeping himself warm like Hosea did, Hosea wore winter clothes in Horseshoe Overlook, thats how warm he was lmao Hell, Arthur spent the last mission robbing a train jumping from horses back and forth, running up a tower to cover Sadie, running down to save Abigail, returning to camp, more gunfight, running through the caves and climbing up a mountain while more shooting occurs before finally fighting Micah. It made total sense he'd ran out of breath much sooner than Hosea did.
I love this video, i knew Hosea was sick since my first playtrough but i never realised the paralelism between Arthur and Hosea in that aspect, also i never heard Hosea telling Jhon he should leave and never look back Also the take from 18:52 to 19:27 is wonderfull, the sun slowly hiding like the reverse of the ending for Arthur, the turtle roaming slowly (that always is around Hosea's grave) bringing some peacefull life to that place, the bayou and his fog that Hosea didn't quite like which makes it kinda funny he's buried there, and the corpse on the horse as a subtle reminder that death and life are just two sides of the same coin (I know, im over analyzing again, but i studied movies so i kinda have in the blood at this point)
This game's writing is something else - Hosea was sick and getting pulled slowly closer to death while trying to do his best for the gang and temper Dutch's worst impulses. Which, coincidentally, was the exact position Arthur found himself in after Hosea died. After the gang lost both of them, it was over.
That monologue near the end is one of a few sequences of writing in RDR2 that are approaching great novel levels of literary maturity. When I see videos like this, it makes me long for more from video games.
I think the phrase by hosea,"I saw some despicably evil things,and incredibly good thing done by the same people" is a comment on dutch's sanity and mental health alswell as arthurs everfluctuating honour and good/bad decisions
In Guarma when you first wake up and first get the ability to free roam if you walk up to Micah one of the lines you can get is him saying that Hosea was dying anyway
During my first playthrough for a short while I actually thought that Arthur got the tbc from Hosea since I had noticed Hosea coughing all the time. Great upload!
Hosea could’ve had tuberculosis as it affects different people differently, as well as different strains. However, I think it’s actually a form of lung cancer, as this was actually pretty common as many people smoked, but also was misdiagnosed as things like tuberculosis and other illnesses.
The “possibility Hosea is ill”? Are there honestly people who think he wasn’t sick? The question isn’t whether he’s ill; it’s what his illness is. Whether it’s TB or something else.
The parallel’s between arthur and Hosea gets even closer with every detail we see. With how arthur tries saving everyone. Pushing his illness away to put others first. Its really sad
I'd say after Hosea's death things became much more stressful for Arthur. So it's possible since things didn't get nearly as insane before Hosea's death it's possible he had TB and was able to live a uh 'relatively' less stressful life. He took medicine to treat himself and took time to enjoy the little things like fishing and hunting with friends. Where Arthur kept getting flung into the most dire of circumstances. Even the doctor told Arthur he'd have months or years of life he took things easy. Unfortunately Arthur didn't have the luxury of giving his body rest.
16:00 you can actually find him sleeping after you've rescued Jack and the whole camp has a big party, when the party dies down a little, Josea is the first to leave. He goes to the back of the house, ground floor and sleeps on a bench or a unit, I think it was in the kitchen. I remember this pretty clearly as I went in and he goes apeshit if you disturb him
12:04 wait this lowkey made me sad Seans one of my favorite characters and I'm convinced if he lived to chapter six, he would've taken Arthur's side (Maybe died for Arthur and John during that one short chase scene in the last mission so in the end it would still have the same ending?) (ANYWAYS IM DONE YAPPING SORRY😓)
I feel like way too many people are overlooking the possibility that Hosea may have _also_ had TB, and had it before Arthur. It could stand to reason then that regardless of what changes with the Downes family, no matter what you do, Arthur will _eventually_ get sick, if not from beating Thomas, then from spending time with Hosea. It's also not out of the realms of possibility that Hosea may have contracted it from the same original source Thomas did, as both men were in the same(general) area for at least a little while. Though it seems like Hosea may have brought the illness with him over the mountains, as everyone seems pretty well adjusted to it and accepting of his pretty clearly impending fate. You could argue Milton spared Hosea an agonizing death, first watching his family fall apart, before his body ultimately gave out - by shooting him in Saint Denis, Hosea was spared the slow end that Arthur was cursed to.
Hosea's comment about going to hell are interesting as he doesn't do much bad in the story. Granted he is older and clearly too ill to be a part of the proper criminality but it's curious considering there's not much that suggests he was bad, rather he kept bad company
In game yes, but I think that lore wise in the past he has done more of the killing or bad stuff that would lead him to believe he was going to hell. I personally believe he was able to redeem himself in a way.
Another thing that people often miss is in Guarma sometimes before doing a mission at the camp when Micah is standing guard Arthur can talk to him and he can say “I still can’t believe what happened in St Denis” and Micah replies “Hosea was dying anyway, and Lenny… well you know what they say about pride before a fall” and Arthur angrily says “that’s all you gotta say?”
Do you know what I’ve always thought was sad is that the Pinkertons already knew what Dutch was going to do as he drew too much attention to himself and the gang. But Hosea sacrificed himself for Abigail and he instantly blamed Abigail for it saying her and John were rats. Hosea’s last act was an honourable one and Dutch instantly tries to blame other people for his death everyone aside from himself. If Dutch wasn’t so dumb and greedy Hosea would have been alive for way longer then he did.
8:15 is definitely foreshadowing. ive played this game since it first came out and only in this recent playthrough did i start really picking up on the foreshadowings.
I love how every gang member comes over to comfort Hosea when he shows signs of illness. It shows how important Hosea is to many of the gang members. He is like a father figure to many of them, probably moreso than Dutch, who is more like a leader (or self-proclaimed KING, as Uncle puts it).
I feel like Arthur is like Hosea not just because there sick but how it ended with there gf both having to lose them to the life they lived as outlaws also Arthur being grumpy and sweet at times like Hosea
I always felt Hosea’s illness was just a metaphor for the upcoming death of the camp. It’s really so subtle and serves no other purpose in the narrative. Hosea always seemed like the heart of the camp to me, and so if he dies, so does the gang. And that’s exactly what happened, things went catastrophic after his death.
Aside from introducing the legendary animal mechanic, I completely understand the stubborn pride to prove your ailing self to your own ailing self. Maybe I'm reading into it, but I could also see the failed hunting trip as a way to set bumbling Hosea up as someone you don't immediately side with, compared to big strong blustering Dutch. At least for a little while. When it comes to Hosea attempting things that he's just not suited for anymore, like when Hosea tried to lift that moonshine bottle and John had to step in - there's a number of things like that which are sprinkled throughout the story, which personally make me think it's intentional. It's a common human experience and people are stubborn and dumb. I get it!
I was once talking to my mother (who is a doctor specialising in internal medicine) about the story of RDR2, and she discussed that while TB was very common back in the day, it would have been highly unlikely for Arthur to have contracted it solely from his encounter with Mr. Downes, as TB is not *that* infectious that a single point of contact with infected tissue or bodily fluids can be infectious, and it is usually contracted more through continuous contact such as living together with someone with symptoms for a long time. My mind then immediately jumped to Hosea's coughing fits and illness, and whether it could have been TB, of which Arthur's symptoms perhaps worsened after this ordeals throughout the game that led to worse health. Of course, this all stems from the idea of whether the story is "realistic" to real life, and the story is of course more poignant if Arthur's worst moment of him beating a sickly man to near death led directly to his later situation. I think this is what was intended by the writers at Rockstar in the end. However, the idea that Hosea's illness was yet another factor contributing to Arthur being forced into such a situation is interesting to me nonetheless.
Could be a working theory since Arthur was the 3rd member of the gang following Hosea and Dutch so he would have been the one around Hosea for the longest most like.
its very frustrating that they haven't done anything else with the game its still top quality the graphics and audio even 4.5 years later. they should have done a calader brothers story line the world and landscape is already built.
Right before you rob the bank in Saint Denis you can hear him coughing very hard at the table in shady belle and if you ask him he’ll say he’s fine but if you ask him twice he sounds irritated but he will say it again and walk off
Hosea's illness, and even Arthur's TB, ain't nothing compared to Uncle's Lumbago. As Uncle said: "It's a slow and painful death."
Evidently.
I can’t believe people still find this funny.
@@SepticSafe_ correct. Lumbago is no laughing matter my friend.
@@SepticSafe_ it's almost as if humour is subjective 🤔
Sadly his lumbago caught up to him 12 years later.
In the last chapter, it's nice to see some of the gang have adopted Arthur as the new Hosea; they all look up to him and ask him for advice.
RIP HOSEA 🌹
@@einzelganger6664 What’s even more sad, and I can’t for the life of me remember which cast member said it, is that they said that if Lenny had survived Saint Denis, that he probably would’ve most likely stepped up into Hosea’s role as the moral heart and counselor of the gang
Uncle doesn't die to it though.
@@daviscampbell9020 uncle never dies
@poppa Did you play RD1 ? He dies on the front deck there. In RD2 he falls asleep in the same location & posture.
There's not much I wish I could relive in life.. I wish I could play through this again for the first time ever.
Its like when you get the first time high and you feel that buzz that feeling that you never going to get again because your body builds up a high tolerance of cannabis and you smoke more and more to get that same feeling but it leads you to nowhere and you become an addict a crack head lol to much internet for today
Heck I haven't seen some of these scenes. Plaything though for the first 3 or 4 times can have 1sts for you.
I wish I didn’t spoil it for myself, like an idiot
Same. I did a low honor play through my first time and wish I never did. Now I tell new players to finish with high honor and in chapter 6 complete the veteran and widow missions. For the reason why I only say "you'll understand when you get there" as to not spoil anything.
The biggest regret i have was just rushing thtough the story missions on my first playthough back in 2018... i didnt't understand how much more there was to this game
I gotta say that a snapping turtle feels like a pretty accurate animal for Hosea to be reincarnated as (1:56), calm and a bit slow, but dangerous if necessary.
I miss him.
@@schwunkie I’m not very familiar with the nature of snapping turtles, however a quick google search tells me that they are in fact (in general) only aggressive if threatened.
Even if that weren’t the case though it was just a comment, no need to dissect it and act like I’m insulting Hosea.
He was a great character and I feel like this criticism of a small comment isn’t necessary.
@@mdsfhs I cut the snapping turtles heads off when I found that they invaded the pond, they was eaten my ducks, hadda kill em uncle Bob held em down with his boot and I took that shovel, took that suckers head right off. Only animal that I felt okay with Killin I hate those demagorgon demonic shits.
Hosea is dangerous they had an encounter at camp strangers were trying to look around but Hosea and I believe bill were blocking their way and Hosea subtly but in a frightening way told them “leave or else” I can’t remember exactly how he said it but it was pretty scary
@@Takaichi666- I just looked it up and he said something like “many of life’s most avoidable tragedies stim from our inability of basic comprehension.. at least that’s the way I’ve always seen things” then he kinda stood like he was gonna pull his gun and the strangers literally said “oh” and left 😂
@@schwunkie you should get a cane or something to flip those snappin fiends if they live in your backyard, those menaces.
You can discover his illness even earlier. In the snowy mountains at the beginning of the game you can see a conversation of him and Dutch where he coughs a bit. When you ask him about it, he waves it off saying it's the cold giving him the cough.
Yup that's when I found out about it
@@QuietWolfBRthat’s literally what the op said
This furthers my thought he caught pneumonia and couldn’t fight it off
@@FaithfulBeliever_Humbleda bullet the chest isn’t pneumonia. He’s have died sooner
@@jakeboehm5267 I never said it killed him, he was dying from it in the game until Dutch got him killed
12:25
“Hosea doesn’t have time for the idiots”
Meanwhile Arthur’s in the background smoking a ciggy he found on the floor
One he isn’t on the floor, secondly he is waiting for him to end the conversation.
Completely wrong about what an idiot is, ironic really your comment
Common practice at the time really 😂
Even with the advent of industrialization, tobacco was a luxury commodity that was never wasted. If you find half a cig on the ground, no sense in just leaving it there when it could be yours.
@@SharpForceTrauma I remember a letsplayer hear bout Leviticus Cornwall being into sugar and she said “like…booger sugar?”
And I commented how nope, sugar was THAT valuable back then. You could get shot over a bag full of the stuff depending on where you were.
@@SharpForceTraumaTo be fair people still do it nowadays 😂
At the time ? Bruuh, i did that just last week, guarantee i’m not the only one too 😂😂
Dude, I joked to myself some hour ago that Hosea has worse tuberculosis than Arthur. Now I’m watching this, 5 minutes after it came out.
Hosea probably doesn't have TB but he's not well.
@@Fizhy I know. It was joking. Anyway, I’ve been going hard at the game and now Arthur’s wealthy from selling gold in Chapter 2 and I’m glad you take the time to respond. And it could still be TB.
he likely has Emphysema
@Fizhy best rdr2 youtuber and you history Channel is awesome too. Thankyou for all you effort it definitely shows in the videos
My guess is pneumonia or cancer
"I've excused you quite enough!"
I don't know why, but I LOVE the way his Voice Actor read that line. Sounds like a grandpa has lost his patients with the stupid in the family.
Hosea really is like that grandfather who's seen everything, can differ from right and wrong, and simply cannot put up with the ostentatiousness of the younger members.
@@StitchPentrue that
Omg yes, that has always been my favorite Hosea moment.
"Patients" 😂😂😂😂
His patients may be gone but I'm glad he still has his patience
Abigail talking to Hosea just about made me cry. I love that sweet old man 😭
You'd be surprised to know Hosea isn't actually that old. He was in his 50's.
The first mission where he and Arthur went bear hunting is where I took a big liking to him his jokes and just how he talks to Arthur I was thinking “he’s such a sweet guy”
@@Takaichi666- I'm regretting not going fishing with him. Rn I'm trying to do every mission and every side quest and everything and usually I don't do that in game's
@@devonian0590 my first play through I didn’t fish with them my second play through I did go fishing with Hosea and Dutch and it was actually a good time Hosea is funny with his stories
We all do😞😞😞😭😭😭😭
It really hit me hard on my first play though when Hosea died. You can easily tell he genuinely cares about the people in the gang. When he turned around and just stared at Arthur at the bank, I had to pause because nothing could have held back the tears. Then Lenny I almost couldn’t finish the mission.
that was when it was the end for the gang... that last light was snuffed out and dutch and gang spiraled out of control!
I feel that he sacrificed himself at the bank so the gang had a chance, he knew he was dying & did this one last thing for them.
You might be eating a bit too many soy products my boyo
@@GLKHD consider liberating yourself from the mental prison you're in.
I was already breaking down after Hosea died. But 5 minutes later after Lenny, I had to pause the game, drink some water, and just cry.
Hosea atleast doesn't die alone. I'm 63 and ain't doing good. The only thought that bothers me is being alone. Loneliness is the worst punishment a person can have.
God Bless you my friend, you have my prayers. I'm sorry to hear this. ❤️
Look for some group activities, friendship comes with hobbies at an older age
There is nothing wrong with being alone, being alone is absolute freedom. Make the best of it, I use to not enjoy being alone. Now I practically love it and live for it, make the best of the situation. Sometimes having people isn't everything, I still see lots of folks, but only few am I genuinely close with. Just find a passion or something, maybe you can meet someone with that.
Maybe you're lonely because you're 63 and commenting on RUclips videos about video games
@@dustywaynemusic6297dude shut up
Hosea and Lenny being the oldest and youngest members dying together hits me pretty hard.
I knew Jack was older than lenny
@@Heisen_burger-dudeprobably meant gunman wise
@@Heisen_burger-dudeand uncle younger than hosea
@@Keek51 yeah, he is
@@Heisen_burger-dudeyeah jack the four year old is a vicious gang member.
When I discovered this game 2 years ago, Hosea being ill was the biggest thing I knew in the game. But in overtime, when much more lore and secrets get found in the game, I just totally forgot that Hosea was ill until I saw this video. This game is filled with too much secrets that can last a generation without being found.
I honestly fear that we will never see its like again. I hope against hope to be proven wrong on this. But the way the industry has taken a nosedive in the last 5 or so years fills me with dread. No other games company has taken such time and care over their world building, characters, lore, backstories, mysteries, secrets and genuine in-game rewards for exploration than Rockstar. But even they handed over their GTA, “remaster,” to Grovestreet Games, resulting in a travesty that still made them a lot of money. Time and again the industry has proven that you can make more money with less effort, and time and again, fan loyalty has been rewarded with disappointment, confusion and dismay at the trash we get from the suits in their executive suites, compelling the developers to cut corners in quality and implant micro transactions, NFT’s and paywalls. We may well look back at RDR2 as the very pinnacle of quality story telling and open world perfection that gaming reached, never to reach those dizzying heights again. Like I say, I would rather be wrong about this. But my gut tells me that all gaming hopes will hinge on the next GTA title. If that turns out to be trash, it will still make money. But if it is better than all of the previous instalments and capable of rivalling Red Dead? . . . Well, Rockstar might just save the triple A industry? . . .
I thought it was gonna be his demise. I was so wrong…
@@talkingedmma : It’s quite a while since I wrote that comment, I think? Yes, it does have a few draw backs, but they are forgivable, given what you get in return for your patience. I hate having my agency ripped away from me at those crucial moments when you play the story missions, for instance. There’s one way to earn that gold medal, and only one. So, get used to slow walking, enforced slow riding and having to watch lengthy, unskippable cut scene sequences, if you realise you made a mistake earlier and have to restart the mission. And god help you if you forgot to save just prior and have to use the wrong equipment, horses and unfamiliar weapons. No rewards for lateral thinking, problem solving skills or originality.
And why in the hell can’t you rob banks in elaborate ways, from blowing holes in the walls, to tunnelling, to just holding the place up, like in several of the story missions!? That would have completed the circle for me!
Until, that is, you have a random encounter, or pursue the skill tree rewards, at which point you’re a free agent, able to use your imagination and creativity to figure out how to lure a predator and set your own kind of trap, or hunt for a bounty, or commit a series of robberies, either getting away with it or leaving a trail of death and destruction in your wake, depending on which reward you’re going for. Or, like so many of us do, just remembering to save so you can attempt the most lucrative train robbery with the cleanest getaway, using a suspension bridge or tunnel as a tactic to stifle law enforcement, after robbing every individual, then murdering them to loot their corpses (they’re always holding out on you) blowing all the safes and raiding every last cupboard and chest, just to see what your tally is, for the sheer hell of it!
Any game in which you can waste entire, lengthy, play sessions on gambling, shootouts, drunkenness, theatre going, early cinema, shopping sprees, private investigations, bounty hunting, animal hunting, relaxing fishing, horse racing and so much more, without EVER ONCE going near the main story missions, just losing yourself in a meticulously built, beautiful game, gets my money and time.
Because, in the end that’s what it comes down to with me. Always the first and most important question I ask myself:
Does the game RESPECT my TIME? When it’s just a giant Fetch-Questathon, with little or no in-game reward for completing it, other than adding stats toward completionism, I feel personally, viscerally insulted. I will forgive a game a lot if it has a good story and characters I can get attached to. But so many games (I’m looking at you, Starfield) actively waste your time with pointless fetching, punish lateral thinking and creativity, have bland, unforgivably stupid, morally blank, characters, blindly wandering about in a plot-hole-ridden story that makes less and less sense the more you think about it and actively encourages corporate-style immorality in the player in a flatly bonkers story that literally makes no sense!
Like you said (and if you’re still reading this rant, thank you for your patience) the stars somehow aligned into this, “almost,” perfect game, where every character has a background, motives, logic to them. You even get that sense from the NPC’s when you do random stuff to them, like tormenting a passer by into taking a shot at you while you’re standing behind the sheriff, just so you can have him get murdered by the law, rather than drawing your own weapon, (Y’know? For a larf) because they’re so elegantly crafted.
Now, it’s all about the, “parent,” companies and their shareholders. They get paid no matter what, and they have the law to back them. So, if that means laying off a bunch of staff, inserting micro-transactions and paywalls for progress, that’s not up to Rockstar. That’s up to Take Two, who owns them. And their motto comes from Goodfellas, “F’ck you! Pay me!” Now, they care about, “engagement,” which is a euphemism for, “time wasting,” because they measure everything about how long everyone plays, when they play, what they grind hardest for, their age groups, their income levels, etc. You sign away all your rights to privacy when you sign their terms and conditions, AFTER having purchased the game, in a contract that would NEVER stand up to serious legal scrutiny if anyone rich enough to take on Take Two’s battery of lawyers was to challenge them in court about it!
And the Rockstar staff can’t even complain in public about all this, because they’ve all signed NDA’s which force them to give up their pensions, severance packages and even repay wages in some cases, should they break them by talking to the press. That’s why the truly creative minds behind Red Dead have all left now, like Dan Houser himself!
That’s why I genuinely fear that, unless the punters seriously and collectively change their buying habits, we may well have passed the pinnacle of games as an art form. And Red Dead was it . . .
Phew! I feel better for that rant. Like I said, if you moseyed all this way along my trail with me, then thanks for your patience . . . “Boah.” 😉✌️
Hosea's sickness is also a great way to show how much the gang has changed; early on, one gang member being sick is a concern for the entire gang. At the end, only a few members of the gang express concern or worry for Arthur (though I'll always have a soft spot for Bill trying to stand up for Arthur to Micah).
Very true, and yeah it was really touching seeing Bill always defend Arthur from Micah. There's even some hidden dialogue in ch 6 where Bill whispers to Arthur that Micah has spread rumors that Arthur has been saying crazy things about Dutch behind his back (which obviously isn't true). Just makes it more tragic that Bill sided with Dutch, not because he wanted to but because he didn't understand the situation, that's why he just looked confused when he did it. Even in RDR1, Bill admits he doesn't care for Dutch and that he's glad he's no longer there, compared to Javier who STILL defends Dutch in RDR 1, showing that Javier sided with Dutch out of pure loyalty.
I like to think it shows how things will end for outlaws regardless. Without hoseas death his sickness would kill him. Arthur's TB would be the gang falling apart instead. Dutch was falling apart before things spiraled and bill was gay so he would've gotten AIDS lmao Javier and lenny were of colour so would've been lynched eventually. My point is there's always something to kill ab outlaw and you can't escape that regardless of what you do.
@@fakeninja4447I know this comment was two months ago but what about the fact that javier points his gun upwards when the standoff at the end of chapter 6 happens? To me it always showed javier wasn’t sure either.
That and when the gang had the standoff near the end, Javier wouldnt aim his gun at John or Arthur.
@@thomasnewton6897i think he always sided with dutch he just didnt wanna shoot arthur either.
Arthur Morgan became more like Hosea when you play more in a high honour setting as the game progresses , he started picking up his wisdom & insight for real ✅.
Yup the minute he stopped looking up to Dutch the more he listened to the actual Father of the camp
@@theoutsiderjess1869
Facts bro. ✅
Hosea and Arthur were already very similar, both fantasized of running away from the gang but both lost special people (Hosea lost Bessy, Arthur lost love with Mary and eventually lost his kid) so they both kind of missed that opportunity and are now the most loyal members of the gang because it’s the only family either of them will ever have. This also explains why both kept urging John to value his family and run away
@@josephstalin2606
Yeah that’s a good point on that one Jospeh ✅
considering hosea would of sided with arthur at the end of the game, I don’t doubt they were probably closer (if u do the greet options w hosea around camp they seem closer and nicer than with dutch)
The scenes of him getting over-the-top annoyed/angry at Sean/Bill actually got me.
Like, dayum, I've replayed this game a few times already but I've never seen Hosea flying off the handle at any of the gang members before.
Didn't know he could flip his lid like that.
Only seen his calm and collected, a little more than occasionally sarcastic side so far.
Then again he surely has seen enough sh*t in his life to not take any from anyone.
I mean they are on the run for their lives and you got Bill drunk and Sean sleeping on guard duty... I understand that he is pissed. It's that kind of irresponsibility that could them killed.
Bit I absolutely agree. I was so surprised when I saw those scenes for the first time.
I had seen him flip out on Sean, but I missed the part where he pulled a gun on Bill back in 2018
I would say view it as his character slightly cracking under the stress. Imagine you are all basically homeless and the fbi is up your ass with your family and you walk up to one of your sons (who you know is particularly irresponsible and stupid) is too drunk to help or asleep on guard duty. Even the nicest person is capable of snapping at someone when a particular pet is peeved.
If you watch the cutscene with Sean, Hosea actually throws a plate of what looks like food. The suggestion is there that Hosea was bringing Sean something to eat while he was on guard duty too - no wonder he flew off the handle like that
Lol I only heard them in the background.
I always thought it was a glitch that Hosea keeps wearing the winter jacket throughout chapter 2. But now I'm convinced it's a symptom of his sickness that he needs to stay warm. Once we get to Lemoyne, he doesn't wear it again because it's a southern state which is known to be humid.
Damn.
Well new Hanover still has very low temperatures
That transition at 1:48, from Hosea’s death to his gravestone. That was so well done.
I thought it was a little jarring but I had to crack on with it. I did my best to remove the jarring aspect and a dissolve fade on each shot did that well enough.
@@Fizhy Not jarring at all. Definitely some movie quality stuff.
@@TheTrillaTron yes, indeed! so good fizhy!
@@FizhyJarring is something Trelawny would say! Lol
@@Fizhy I think you’re being too hard on yourself
I think it's most likely Hosea had Emphysema. Even today there is no cure for the disease, and the average life expectancy is just 5 years. The main symptoms are coughing and fatigue both of which Hosea showed.
Agreed. Either that or COPD.
One can also be afflicted with COPD that in turn grows into emphysema and I'd know cause I've got both
@@NIGHTSTALKER848 damn that sucks
@@wrench4203 thanks much appreciated and yes it sure does
@@NIGHTSTALKER848 how long you have left, friend?
“My dear Bessie went to heaven, while I’ll be going south” It makes me so sad to think Hosea thought that of himself, because while he was outlaw who did bad things, he was an outlaw who only wanted to punish other bad people and institutions, not innocent people. At his core, he was a really good and remorseful guy who everyone at camp cared about a lot.
I believe that Hosea was suffering from a decease like Bronchitis or Emphysema.
If Hosea had the habit of smoking regularly, like Dutch and Arthur, there's also a probability that perhaps he had Lung Cancer.
Hosea doesn't have all the symptoms for Emphysema and Bronchitis isn't a "terminal" disease. The prognosis for Lung Cancer in 1899 wasn't five years (you'd be lucky to make it two, and bed ridden for the last six months). He has Pulmonary Fibrosis (Interstitial Lung Disease... scarring of the lung tissue). All of the symptoms fit: Shortness of breath, especially with activity... Dry, hacking cough that does not produce phlegm... Extreme tiredness and weakness... Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss... Discomfort in the chest... Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow... Bleeding in the lungs (usually only in the later stages and still not as much bleeding as either Lung Cancer or TB). The life expectancy for someone with ILD (even in 1899) was THREE TO FIVE YEARS (additionally, Hosea is rather gaunt, which could be explained by the loss of appetite/unexplained weight loss).
@@thebonesaw..4634 Cancers act differently on each organism. It's not only a common decease, It's a mutation of the cells. Different genetic, different reactions.
Some people with cancer become walking corpses, but some other people who develop one or more types of cancer might still look normal and barely feel/show any symptoms.
Besides, there's no way we could ever know how much time Hosea had left, since he didn't die by his sickness (Like Arthur). He was killed.
@@grimreaper6060 -- Normally, I'd agree with you. However, we know that Hosea has two to five years because Hosea says that's how long he has (whether he knows this because he's been diagnosed or whether he simply "feels" that's how long he has is irrelevant)... it's the information the writers of the game gave to us. So... based off of the information that the developers gave to us, along with the symptoms that Hosea was showing and the symptoms that Hosea was NOT showing... I can say with a great deal of certainty that it wasn't emphysema. I can also say that it wasn't bronchitis for the simple fact that bronchitis isn't terminal. I can also rule out lung cancer as well as a host of other terminal lung diseases for various reasons...
It isn't COPD because people with COPD (even severe cases) easily live into their 70s and 80s (even in 1899).
It isn't emphysema because Hosea doesn't have a barrel chest (which develops because the lungs greatly expand), and Hosea doesn't have cyanosis (blue tint of the skin due to lack of oxygen to the body's cells).
It isn't Lung Cancer or Mesothelioma because the prognosis for both are generally shorter than 5 years (especially in 1899).
It isn't Cystic Fibrosis - because that's a disease that develops in children.
It isn't Bronchiectasis because the average life expectancy is 20 years from the point of diagnosis.
It probably isn't TB because, once Arthur develops TB, Hosea doesn't say jack shit about it (if that had been Hosea's diagnosis, he probably would have mentioned it). _"You have TB? Holy shit! Me too!"_
Once we rule all of those out... we're only left with one major terminal lung disease... Pulmonary Fibrosis. And, wouldn't you know it... EVERY... SINGLE... SYMPTOM... FITS. Shortness of breath, especially with activity? CHECK... Dry, hacking cough that doesn't produce phlegm? CHECK... Extreme tiredness and weakness? CHECK... Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss? CHECK... Discomfort in the chest? CHECK... Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow? CHECK.
Again... this is a game. Hosea isn't really sick, because Hosea isn't REAL. But, if he were, my bet would be on Pulmonary Fibrosis, simply because all of the symptoms seem to point to it more that they do towards any other terminal lung malady.
@@thebonesaw..4634 If not treated, Bronchitis can actually become an worse condition and kill a person. Though I still believe in cancer, since all the symptoms also fit.
But your theory is not to be ignored. We need every useful informations we can get about this.
@@grimreaper6060well, he does say he might have 5 years left. I rather doubt that a number he would pick off the top of his head.
Mortality is a recurring theme in this game and done very well.
That gun spin after threatening Bill was smooth af.
Dude was a prime outlaw bad ass.
RIP Hosea.
He was a badass and sweetheart. Just like my family I try to be
Actually, the first hint is in the very first cutscene--where Dutch kindly yet firmly instructs Hosea to stay and keep warm in the abandoned house in Colter when he asks what they're going to do next.
RDR2 is on another level than other games when it comes to details int he environment and writing. I love that there's still stuff to be found in it leading to great videos like this. Thanks for the vid mate
This game is so loaded with story content that if you blink or don't notice you'll miss it.
You really just said if you "don't notice you'll miss it"... Lmao
The wagon ride isn’t the first inclination of Hosea being sick, Arthur asks about his cough in the Colter camp very early on while him and Dutch are sat by the fire talking.
Or specifically, when you greet Hosea after him and Dutch are done talking, Arthur will ask about his cough
Best supporting character in my opinion. Repairing the cart, the hunting trip, both some of the most wholesome moments in the game.
That scene in the bank robbery was the most wholesome 😊
I loved his quest in Rhodes with the moonshine too hahaha
He and Arthur had such a great dynamic.
@@aylarios11 "Cousin Fenton!"
Arthur looked up to Hosea so much that he essentially became him in the end. He worries more for the others than himself and wants to make sure they're safe before he dies. Loved their dynamic.
Idk if Hosea's sickness was exactly subtle. Everytime I was in camp the man was coughing like he just took the rippinest, snortinest gnarliest hit off a bong I'd ever heard.
I have a theory, high honour Arthur takes more of the traits of Hosea which was always the Angel over the shoulder. And low honour Arthur takes more after his other less admirable father Dutch, which is more of a devil over his shoulder.
Also I think Hosea suffered from some sort of lung cancer. But hard for anyone to know since it was in the 20th century when medical science knew what cancer was
i feel like nobody talks about how well written the intros are in your videos, it’s just amazing really fizhy.
Damn ive Played it 3-4 times and never did i ever suspect or saw hosea being sick. I think its mostly because i never was much around camp that much to know actual lore. Well done video again. Your rdr videos are best
Much appreciated.
Same. Only thing I noticed was the mission where you move into horseshoe.
:'( man imagine if Hosea managed to survie the bank heist disaster. I think he could have gave Arthur words of wisdom since both of their time were running out
a man of his age smoked or been around alot of smoke not hard to imagine he has lung cancer consideirng how quickly tb took arthur
Arthur could have lived longer if he wasn’t shot and didn’t shipwreck at Guarma. The almost dying twice, getting a bunch of water into his lungs during the wreck, and Guarmas climate triggered it. If these didn’t happen, he probably wouldn’t have shown symptoms for years, maybe decades.
Arthur would've been with john Sadie and Charles taking down Dutch and Micah
Hosea is the foreshadowing to Arthur of what regrets you can have when you don't end your life on your own terms. Both had little time, but Hosea's illness, forlorn attempts to salvage the gang and untimely demise gives the player the context for the final chapter over how they want Arthur to end his days.
man, he pulls his revolver out so smoothly at 12:14
i like that at the very end making the point that arthur kinda took over hosea's job of being the voice of reason to dutch. i never once even thought about that but its spot on. great video brother
Hosea is one of my top 5 characters ... he is so intelligent, reasonable, kind ... but can also be quite scary if he gets provocated. He is someone you can respect and look up to -
I was very affected by his death and I also think this was the final push for Dutch to lose his mind completely
Hosea and Arthur walked so that way John and others could run. Such a beautiful story.
I thought I was the only one who noticed hosea's illness. I felt more grief knowing that hosea was basically a dead man walking
I'm so happy you're still making RDR2 videos; I can't get enough of 'em. Thank you for another job well done ;)
The dead woman on horseback at 19:07 legit creeped me out
I'm surprised nobody else was mentioning that
you forgot when he clearly states in chapter 3 when you get his favor quest when hes making a tonjc he says something like “even with my illness, this thing kept me alive, imagine the wonders itll do with you”
Going through your mystery revisited playlist and just got this notification, perfect timing Fizhy and will probably be a good video about one of my favorite gang members.
That turnip speech he gave reminded me of "I Never Picked Cotton" by Johnny Cash
One of mine too, Hosea is a really personable but also no-nonsense character.
@@Fizhy truly the dad/grandpa of the group. I think everyone wishes they had a role model like him
@@Fizhyhis illness seems like COPD to me, look into copd an compare to hosea and its pretty spot on, my nan has copd so I kinda spotted it off the bat
"We're born with some dreams. We acquire others as we get older and we live out something else." Hosea's dialogue there, and the music you've chosen to place, work together so well. There's something eerily prophetic about what he's saying in that scene, and I think it's something that can be applied to some people's lives in reality as well.
He’s so cool, just straight up my favorite out of the second game
Agreed. He’s the best written character in the 2nd game imo. One of the few with such subtlety
It's easy to mistakenly write off Hosea's reasoning and resistance to Dutch's decisions as a product of age. Realizing he was near the end of the road gave him clarity just like it did for Arthur.
It's unlikely Arthur would have ever questioned Dutch without Hosea. And Arthur actually starts questioning him in chapter 4, before he gets sick but after Hosea tells him he needs to start thinking for himself.
Hosea scaring the shit out of Sean never fails to make me smile 😂
It is touching how genuinely concerned the gang is about Hosea. I just started another play through and I plan on REALLY taking my time to hear ALL these conversations.
The more I look into the story, the more depressing it gets. Arthur’s sacrifice being in vain, the tragedy of Jack Marston, John Marston, not being able to escape, and now Hosea’s wish for everybody to just be safe before he goes to not be fulfilled.
Rdr3 with Hosea as the main character showing the early life of the gang and ends at blackwater would go crazy
You mentioned that Hosea's illness is a different disease from Arthur's because Hosea's is slower acting. I think though that Hosea also has TB. This is because TB can take years to kill some people while months to kill others. A famous gunslinger for example, called Doc Holliday, was diagnosed with TB around 1872 and died in 1887 from it. Sure Hosea was older than Arthur so he should've maybe died faster, but it's important to remember what Arthur went through. He was almost beaten and starved to death by the O' Discrolls and was stranded in an island for a long time. And depending on the ending you got he was beaten almost to death by Micah. Just wanted to point that out
There are types off TB. Arthur's one was also extremely aggressive. The full rdr2 story plays out over the last 6 months. Starts begin May, ends end November. And the beating and Guarma was was speeded up the process off Arthur's tb. Also Arthur never had a break anymore being on the run all the time..
It’s possible but I don’t think he’d be nearly as physically capable if he had tuberculosis
Hosea has Pulmonary Fibrosis (aka Interstitial Lung Disease), the symptoms of which are: Shortness of breath, especially with activity. Dry, hacking cough that does not produce phlegm. Extreme tiredness and weakness. Loss of appetite/Unexplained weight loss. Discomfort in the chest. Labored breathing, which may be fast and shallow. Bleeding in the lungs (usually in the later stages and still not as much bleeding as either Lung Cancer or TB). *The life expectancy for someone with ILD (even in 1899) was THREE TO FIVE YEARS* (additionally, Hosea is rather gaunt, which could be explained by the loss of appetite/unexplained weight loss).
IDL (Pulmonary Fibrosis) is an umbrella term used for a large group of diseases that cause scarring (fibrosis) of the lungs. The scarring causes stiffness in the lungs which makes it difficult to breathe and get oxygen to the bloodstream. Lung damage from ILDs is often irreversible and gets worse over time. Many things can increase the risk of or cause ILDs including genetics, and certain medications... medical treatments such as radiation or chemotherapy can also cause it (but those weren't possible in 1899). Exposure to hazardous materials has been linked to ILDs such as asbestosis and hypersensitivity pneumonitis. People with autoimmune diseases such as sarcoidosis or rheumatoid arthritis are also at increased risk of developing an ILD. Smoking can not only cause ILDs, but can make the condition much worse, which is why anyone diagnosed is strongly encouraged to quit. Unfortunately, in many cases, such as idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, the causes may be unknown.
Hosea lived with TB longer because he wasnt constantly in strenous stress and doing physically demanding tasks. He was keeping himself warm and had been medicating himself with ginseng the entire time. Not alot of labor, and while he is a competent gunslinger, he was someone who would join the fights as a last resort
Arthur on the other hand accepted his fate and is still leading a very physically active lifestyle on the weeks leading up to his death. Hunting, gunfights, fist fights, running. And trying to make things right. He didnt put effort to medicating or keeping himself warm like Hosea did, Hosea wore winter clothes in Horseshoe Overlook, thats how warm he was lmao
Hell, Arthur spent the last mission robbing a train jumping from horses back and forth, running up a tower to cover Sadie, running down to save Abigail, returning to camp, more gunfight, running through the caves and climbing up a mountain while more shooting occurs before finally fighting Micah. It made total sense he'd ran out of breath much sooner than Hosea did.
That's who's Arthur morgan based on Doc Holliday
I love this video, i knew Hosea was sick since my first playtrough but i never realised the paralelism between Arthur and Hosea in that aspect, also i never heard Hosea telling Jhon he should leave and never look back
Also the take from 18:52 to 19:27 is wonderfull, the sun slowly hiding like the reverse of the ending for Arthur, the turtle roaming slowly (that always is around Hosea's grave) bringing some peacefull life to that place, the bayou and his fog that Hosea didn't quite like which makes it kinda funny he's buried there, and the corpse on the horse as a subtle reminder that death and life are just two sides of the same coin (I know, im over analyzing again, but i studied movies so i kinda have in the blood at this point)
This game's writing is something else - Hosea was sick and getting pulled slowly closer to death while trying to do his best for the gang and temper Dutch's worst impulses. Which, coincidentally, was the exact position Arthur found himself in after Hosea died. After the gang lost both of them, it was over.
That monologue near the end is one of a few sequences of writing in RDR2 that are approaching great novel levels of literary maturity. When I see videos like this, it makes me long for more from video games.
I think the phrase by hosea,"I saw some despicably evil things,and incredibly good thing done by the same people" is a comment on dutch's sanity and mental health alswell as arthurs everfluctuating honour and good/bad decisions
In Guarma when you first wake up and first get the ability to free roam if you walk up to Micah one of the lines you can get is him saying that Hosea was dying anyway
During my first playthrough for a short while I actually thought that Arthur got the tbc from Hosea since I had noticed Hosea coughing all the time. Great upload!
4 years later and multiple playthroughs I still learn a thing or two about the game.
2:02 If Milton had suddenly been attacked by a turtle it would have been Hosea's revenge.
Hosea knows that revenge is a fools game
Hosea deserved so much better
Hosea could’ve had tuberculosis as it affects different people differently, as well as different strains. However, I think it’s actually a form of lung cancer, as this was actually pretty common as many people smoked, but also was misdiagnosed as things like tuberculosis and other illnesses.
The “possibility Hosea is ill”?
Are there honestly people who think he wasn’t sick?
The question isn’t whether he’s ill; it’s what his illness is. Whether it’s TB or something else.
The parallel’s between arthur and Hosea gets even closer with every detail we see.
With how arthur tries saving everyone. Pushing his illness away to put others first. Its really sad
I'd say after Hosea's death things became much more stressful for Arthur. So it's possible since things didn't get nearly as insane before Hosea's death it's possible he had TB and was able to live a uh 'relatively' less stressful life. He took medicine to treat himself and took time to enjoy the little things like fishing and hunting with friends. Where Arthur kept getting flung into the most dire of circumstances. Even the doctor told Arthur he'd have months or years of life he took things easy. Unfortunately Arthur didn't have the luxury of giving his body rest.
I love Fizhy's reaearch and stories. it's pretty remarkable, squeezing more & more out of this game. thanks Fizhy
In the hunting mission u can see Hosea holding his back meaning HE HAS LUMBAGO
It wasn't often I'd stop by the campfire when a story was being told, but for the old boy himself? Always, no questions asked.
16:00 you can actually find him sleeping after you've rescued Jack and the whole camp has a big party, when the party dies down a little, Josea is the first to leave. He goes to the back of the house, ground floor and sleeps on a bench or a unit, I think it was in the kitchen. I remember this pretty clearly as I went in and he goes apeshit if you disturb him
12:04 wait this lowkey made me sad Seans one of my favorite characters and I'm convinced if he lived to chapter six, he would've taken Arthur's side (Maybe died for Arthur and John during that one short chase scene in the last mission so in the end it would still have the same ending?) (ANYWAYS IM DONE YAPPING SORRY😓)
at least he died quick
by an enemy like a warrior
1:55
I did not know hosea reincarnated as a snapping turtle lol
I think Hosea had TB and gave it to Arthur, with Downes simply being a way for Arthur to "explain" why he got it.
I saw a one minute gaming video and I noticed hosea mentioned an illness.
I wondered what it was.
And here we are.
I feel like way too many people are overlooking the possibility that Hosea may have _also_ had TB, and had it before Arthur.
It could stand to reason then that regardless of what changes with the Downes family, no matter what you do, Arthur will _eventually_ get sick, if not from beating Thomas, then from spending time with Hosea.
It's also not out of the realms of possibility that Hosea may have contracted it from the same original source Thomas did, as both men were in the same(general) area for at least a little while. Though it seems like Hosea may have brought the illness with him over the mountains, as everyone seems pretty well adjusted to it and accepting of his pretty clearly impending fate.
You could argue Milton spared Hosea an agonizing death, first watching his family fall apart, before his body ultimately gave out - by shooting him in Saint Denis, Hosea was spared the slow end that Arthur was cursed to.
Love all your uploads man! Keeps luring me back to red dead.
19:00 casual dead guy on a horse riding by Hosea's grave. classic rdr2
Im pretty sure he had a cold thats why it was so visible in chapter two
I don’t know if people will really truly appreciate how well done these videos are. Cheers, thanks for the amazing content!
I have never encountered any of this and I really tried putting as much attention in camp as I could 💀 thanks
13:26 Hold up, you're saying I could've met Hosea's Grandfather?
Hosea's comment about going to hell are interesting as he doesn't do much bad in the story. Granted he is older and clearly too ill to be a part of the proper criminality but it's curious considering there's not much that suggests he was bad, rather he kept bad company
In game yes, but I think that lore wise in the past he has done more of the killing or bad stuff that would lead him to believe he was going to hell.
I personally believe he was able to redeem himself in a way.
Another thing that people often miss is in Guarma sometimes before doing a mission at the camp when Micah is standing guard Arthur can talk to him and he can say “I still can’t believe what happened in St Denis” and Micah replies “Hosea was dying anyway, and Lenny… well you know what they say about pride before a fall” and Arthur angrily says “that’s all you gotta say?”
Do you know what I’ve always thought was sad is that the Pinkertons already knew what Dutch was going to do as he drew too much attention to himself and the gang. But Hosea sacrificed himself for Abigail and he instantly blamed Abigail for it saying her and John were rats. Hosea’s last act was an honourable one and Dutch instantly tries to blame other people for his death everyone aside from himself. If Dutch wasn’t so dumb and greedy Hosea would have been alive for way longer then he did.
Yeah fs man shows how twisted Dutch is
8:15 is definitely foreshadowing. ive played this game since it first came out and only in this recent playthrough did i start really picking up on the foreshadowings.
Definitely sounds like a bacterial infection like chronic bronchitis 🦠 or the smoking in his youth finally caught up to him 🚬
I love how every gang member comes over to comfort Hosea when he shows signs of illness. It shows how important Hosea is to many of the gang members. He is like a father figure to many of them, probably moreso than Dutch, who is more like a leader (or self-proclaimed KING, as Uncle puts it).
He's just got even more advanced lumbago
Doctor said he needs a backiotomy.
I feel like Arthur is like Hosea not just because there sick but how it ended with there gf both having to lose them to the life they lived as outlaws also Arthur being grumpy and sweet at times like Hosea
I always felt Hosea’s illness was just a metaphor for the upcoming death of the camp. It’s really so subtle and serves no other purpose in the narrative. Hosea always seemed like the heart of the camp to me, and so if he dies, so does the gang. And that’s exactly what happened, things went catastrophic after his death.
11:17 Rare moment where Micah is respectable and maybe even likable
The idea behind them hunting the grizzly was so they could eat not just for shits and giggles 😂😂😂
Aside from introducing the legendary animal mechanic, I completely understand the stubborn pride to prove your ailing self to your own ailing self. Maybe I'm reading into it, but I could also see the failed hunting trip as a way to set bumbling Hosea up as someone you don't immediately side with, compared to big strong blustering Dutch. At least for a little while.
When it comes to Hosea attempting things that he's just not suited for anymore, like when Hosea tried to lift that moonshine bottle and John had to step in - there's a number of things like that which are sprinkled throughout the story, which personally make me think it's intentional. It's a common human experience and people are stubborn and dumb. I get it!
Crazy how I'd never even thought of him being unwell like that an also missed the non-cutscene dialogues
some form of cancer possibly
I was once talking to my mother (who is a doctor specialising in internal medicine) about the story of RDR2, and she discussed that while TB was very common back in the day, it would have been highly unlikely for Arthur to have contracted it solely from his encounter with Mr. Downes, as TB is not *that* infectious that a single point of contact with infected tissue or bodily fluids can be infectious, and it is usually contracted more through continuous contact such as living together with someone with symptoms for a long time. My mind then immediately jumped to Hosea's coughing fits and illness, and whether it could have been TB, of which Arthur's symptoms perhaps worsened after this ordeals throughout the game that led to worse health.
Of course, this all stems from the idea of whether the story is "realistic" to real life, and the story is of course more poignant if Arthur's worst moment of him beating a sickly man to near death led directly to his later situation. I think this is what was intended by the writers at Rockstar in the end. However, the idea that Hosea's illness was yet another factor contributing to Arthur being forced into such a situation is interesting to me nonetheless.
Could be a working theory since Arthur was the 3rd member of the gang following Hosea and Dutch so he would have been the one around Hosea for the longest most like.
12:23 - I'm sorry, but I fucking love the little twirl Hosea does with his gun.
What an absolute masterpiece of a game my favorite game of all time
its very frustrating that they haven't done anything else with the game its still top quality the graphics and audio even 4.5 years later. they should have done a calader brothers story line the world and landscape is already built.
Agreed 🤠
Hosea being sick seemed like them making us think "they're foreshadowing him dying of age of sickness" but then nooooo it was Agent Moron
"Hosea doesn't look that old"
He looks 60-70 duh
Right before you rob the bank in Saint Denis you can hear him coughing very hard at the table in shady belle and if you ask him he’ll say he’s fine but if you ask him twice he sounds irritated but he will say it again and walk off