Why did the pilots LOSE control?! National Air Cargo flight 102
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
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On the 29th of April, 2013 a Boeing 747 from National Air Cargo, flight 102, crashed just seconds after takeoff.
The crash killed all 7 American crew members and was captured on a dash-cam of a passing vehicle. This video became a major clue in the investigation into what caused the crash together with eye-witness accounts and technical evidence.
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Sources:
Air France 747-400: @ BriYYZ
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
747-400 Conversion: @ iai
www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/de...
747-400 Conversion: @ iai
www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/de...
747-400 Conversion: @ iai
www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/de...
747-400 Conversion: @ iai
www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/de...
Locking Mechanisms: @Telair
telair.com/contact/#158038144...
ULD: @ Bob Rogers
www.aviationpros.com/gse/arti...
ULD Storage: @ aircargonews.net
www.aircargonews.net/airlines...
Cargo Section: @ globalmotion.com
www.globalmotion.com/wp-conte...
Loadmaster: @ U.S. Air Force/Senior Airman Harry Brexel
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Strapping Down:
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Large Cargo: @ aviationtoday.com
www.aviationtoday.com/wp-cont...
Atlas Cargo: @ Atlas
www.joc.com/sites/default/fil...
747 Jackscrew: @ Quora
qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg...
Bulkhead: @Quora
www.quora.com/What-are-aft-pr...
Cargo Loading: @ fearoflanding.com
fearoflanding.com/files/2015/...
Straps: @ NTSB
gawker.com/was-the-bagram-air...
Bulkhead: @ NTSB
gawker.com/was-the-bagram-air...
Loadmaster: @ Staff Sgt. Quinton Russ
soldiersangelsgermany.blogspot...
Loadmaster: @ defencejobs.gov.au
www.defencejobs.gov.au/-/medi...
Qatar Cargo 747: @ betteraviationjobs.com
betteraviationjobs.com/wp-con...
Qatar Cargo 747: @ globalqyresearchreports
globalqyresearchreports.wordp...
Cargo Loading: @ Dtom
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Cargo Loading: @ Senior Airman Kasey Zickmund
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Cargo Loading: @ Sarah Lipfird
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
@ NYC Aviation
www.nycaviation.com/2013/05/na...
00:00 - Intro:
01:21 - Flight Overview
02:02 - 747-400 Cargo Conversion
04:01 - Hydraulic System Overview
05:53 - The Crew
06:33 - The Cargo Load
11:29 - Cockpit Conversations
13:47 - The Accident
15:56 - Searching for Answers
21:12 - Exclusive Skillshare Offer!
22:14 - Chapter 9: Conclusions
23:28 - You might also enjoy…
![Luke Combs - Ain’t No Love In Oklahoma (From Twisters: The Album) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J6YlaeACE4E/mqdefault.jpg)
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/mentourpilot03211
It seems strange that wheeled vehicles are not required to have their brakes applied, and the gears in park, or reverse?!
Under NORMAL SMOOTH flight, I believe, the cargo would not move even during take off or landing.
Such precautions - gears alone, stop a vehicle rolling up to about 30% incline.
Also, chocks are even more useful than brakes or gears in preventing rolling movement, especially with heavy vehicles.
Are the FFA, and load-masters unaware of these facts?
Obviously straps ARE also required, both as a belt and braces protection, but also because, under turbulence and negative G forces, ALL my securing advice becomes useless!
Also strapping is the only way to prevent lateral movement.
Thanks for the report, very sad - especially as I say, because any one of three additional restraining techniques, I believe, would have worked so long as no significant negative G occurred at any point during the flight.
@@keithalderson100 The vehicles were sanding on platforms, even if they apply brakes and use chocks n the vehicles. the platforms can still move. (I am not a professional, correct me if I am wrong)
Seems simple enough. You have an inexperienced load master not adhering to regulations when confronted with a new unknown load type. I would also site the to captains and seconds who should have been questioning this because of lack of familiarity. If nothing else an Air Force load master should have be consulted.
your channel quality is better then anything else i have seen. National Geographic, discovery channel have nothing over you.
It's clear that the pilots were not satisfied with the loading from their conversation. Why did they continue ???? Makes no sense !
As a loadmaster for 747 myself, the 24 and 26 straps sent shivers down my spine. I've used double amount of straps for payload weighing half as much.
I'm no load master, but that seems like such a low amount, I use 12 straps, and 4 chains when hauling a 2 ton car on a trailer.
So why didn't they use chains? Curious. Everytime I have flown as a passenger with vehicles on board a C5, C130, C17, Chinook, the vehicles were secured with chains and turnbuckles..
@@msromike123 I was wondering about that as the pictures kept showing the use of chains to secure the vehicles, but they were talking about straps.
Finally, the investigation photo at the showing severed straps says it all!
I work in road haulage. It is always checking the state of the straps too.
Thank you for this information!
I’ll quote my old boss before checking my work, “it’s not that I don’t trust you, I don’t trust anyone.”
OMG I so agree. I check everything obsessively before I take off.
100%
As an executive chef of 30 years I don't even trust myself. I always have 1 or 2 of the staff - no matter their job - follow behind me and check - just as I do them
Health and safety ignored because of too much over confidence.
I don’t trust myself. That’s why I triple check. I do it forward, then I do it backwards. The third time is a complete redo.
I’m an ICU Registered Nurse and I also am a pilot, I have an Advanced Ground Instructor Certification. I’m NOT claiming expert: just saying that SAFETY demands diligence: every stop by a police officer could result in a gunfight. That’s why they are told to NEVER GET COMPLACENT.
Aviation demands the same attitude of, this one can go south, so we/I better be SURE, dammed sure.
In this event, they weren’t. Condolences to the families of the crew.
“If it’s not tied down properly, everything moves.” That was the only alarm bell I needed.
As one firearms instructor always says in his videos, "The lessons we learn are written on tombstones of others". And sadly, this never ceases to apply in many other spheres of life, especially aviation. What's worse is that sometimes the lessons aren't learnt.
In the aviation world the saying goes: "Checklists are written in blood."
It is bittersweet. On one hand, why did they have to die for us to learn these lessons? On the other hand, we're making damn well sure we learn the lessons they died to teach us.
There are plenty of industries where people will die, and everyone ignores the lessons they should have learned.
Like don't look down the barrel?
@@rizdalegend ...of a loaded firearm with a safety off? Sure. When firearm is clear and disassembled for cleaning? You NEED to look into it to ensure clean barrel.
Is it too much to ask that the FAA act proactively rather than reactively? In so many crashes, the NTSB cites the FAA being at fault. It shocks me that at this time, you were required to undergo training to ship a package on dry ice but not to be a loadmaster on a cargo plane.
My friend was the captain of this 747 and stationed in Dubai. There were two crews stationed there so they could fly back to back flights for the military into Afghanistan. I saw this crash pop up on Facebook while traveling overseas and my heart sank. His wife finally got a hold of me about a half day later and let me know he was on the other crew back at the hotel. Relieved but sad.
National Air Cargo is a disgusting immoral insanely negligent company run by horrible people
@@nopers2223322 Not the first time I've heard this. My friend quit.
@@nopers2223322 so is U.S. country of porn infested military
@@hadikhan63 what
@@hadikhan63 bro porn isn't the issue. They weren't even in the millitary. Lack of regulations surrounding training of cargo handlers is the issue.
I know it's been said a million times already, but the production value of this series is exceptional. Very well done! I appreciate all of the hard work that must have been put into these!
It has always been good but it is outstanding now. Juan Browne at Blancolirio has similar depth of analysis but he does not have the time to reach the production level we see here. I keep close watch on both in my notifications.
I can’t agree with you more on that one.
I’m guessing but I think the recreations were likely part of the final report created by the DoDefense investigation not the producers of this video. ???
Producing all the graphics shown goes way beyond what would be reasonable for a RUclips video.
Good job summarizing the report though.
@@flagmichael Indeed!
His wife is doing the all the production parts. You know you men can’t do anything right without us 💃🏽💃🏼💃🏽💃🏾
I actually witnessed this crash in person. Felt like the most messed up nightmare I could of ever had. Seen tons of aircraft take off all the time during my tour there and I just happened to be getting ready to move back to the states. I knew as soon as it took off everyone on board was going to die but all I could do was watch. It crashed right where I had worked and driven every day and could of easily been on the ground at that point in time had I not gotten dismissed to prepare to return home. Haunts me literally every day and doubt it’ll ever not bother me
sorry to hear that. Must’ve been intensely painful to experience.
I'm so sorry that you had to witness this but always remember there was a reason you were not in the area at the time. Someone didn't do their job correctly you can take this as a lesson to always follow through and to do the right thing no matter how hard that can be in your future. Take it from someone who has basically walked in your shoes and lived when others who I sincerely believed deserved the right more than I did not but I made sure that my life has been useful I always tried to be positive and some people said I was a coach to them to help them move forward even if it was just something small. It is funny I have been tested throughout my life because the first thing happened when I was very young and I literally came out of it alive when they pulled the plug and I was dead you're declared dead the certificate is signed they prepare you for the morgue and 20 minutes later the nurse realizes there's something there. 30 days later you walk out of the hospital. I never was famous I didn't get to finish all the goals I'd hoped but I know I lived a good life I Hurt No One and I can stand before the Judgment bar of my own soul I know I did the best with what I had to offer the world. That's all you can do that's what you can take from this opportunity it was tragedy for the people who are bored this plane who had trusted but possibly they didn't follow through correctly and make sure that their safety and the safety of those on the ground was number one. Sometimes we become complacent in our life because while we're just living it and we're in a hurry to get wherever we're going forgetting we've never been guaranteed 80 years if you're interested in that sentence there's a really good book you might want to read written by a man who experienced what I did at the beginning of World War II it's called return from tomorrow hard to get but worth the read.
Sorry you had to witness that
could have
I've seen the video on RUclips of the crash. It's quite unreal to watch as it turns and just falls out of the sky
I can't believe how lax the Load Master was.
Even if he thought that 26 straps were enough why not go to 36 or 40....just to be certain.
Also, a knot?
Knots in any type of securing straps are a huge no-no - they reduce the capacity of the straps enormously.
It's hard to imagine being so cavalier about weight & balance to take the "eh, looks about right" approach to a nonstandard, unfamiliar load. Even without the damage to flight controls, 24-36000 lb objects shifting in flight surely would be a nontrivial event.
@@avengingmime I really can't get my head around it at all - for it to happen once is bad enough, but for the Load Master to have witnessed the damage and do effectively nothing about it is.....I'm struggling to think how to describe it.
Terrible to think that no-one spoke up .
@@ianmacfarlane1241 that is my immediate thought, as well. the pilot and the loadmaster both knew the initial strap pattern let the load shift and break a strap. the obvious conclusion is that the strap pattern is insufficient.
The manual he was given by National Airlines was so bad that the loadmaster had no chance to know what was enough. Especially because he was inexperienced but that wouldve been totally fine if the manual wouldnt have been so wrong. If you are a loadmaster, then you should know that the angle of the straps matter. But in the manual it was said that the maximum capacity of a strap with any angle is a constant. You can understand how an inexperienced loadmaster might easily assume that maybe they have accounted for the size of the cargo and the places of the straps when designing the aircraft and when designing the vehicle and so the manual is completely right at saying that, because if they are accounted for the angles can be designed in a way and the straps specific size in a way that it actually does have a maximum capacity under some constant. However that was not the case and thats why he used so little amount of straps.
idk anything about the knots u are talking about but ok.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 so consider a few factors
1: pressure from above, Government contracts are highly desired by corporate and they were probably pushing the crew to get the flight done on schedule.
2: inexperience, in almost all technical fields you'll tend to find less experienced people develop what seems like a lax attitude because they don't know how precice things need to be.
I'm not in aviation but I can tell you that a truck isn't allowed to pull an armored vehicle down a road, much less a plane, with cargo straps, you need at least twice the vehicles weight in tie down chains, and the chains are to be tightened down to the point that it takes major effort on the chain boomer to get another click. Then you drive around for 10 minutes, come back, and re-tighten, as the LM said "everything moves" what he forgot was the last part "everything moves the first time".
Looking at the pictures even the chains holding the MRAP's to the pallets have slack on them during the pictures from loading (I can't guarantee but they also look way too thin for an 18ton vehicle) I can't see very well but the chains also look like they're arranged wrong, you crisscross chains FR to RL and FL to RR not flat right to left.
Now the fact that the load master even thought it was OK to use that disgusting conglomeration of cargo straps just reeks of poor training and someone doing the "it makes sense" method. Even tho a highschool dropout army truck driver knows that you can't stack ratchet straps ontop of each other because of friction wear.
Again IDK aviation rules but I'd imagine that more cargo planes would be dropping out of the sky if any of that was considered normal.
I was on the ring road at the end of the runway when that happened. The aircraft pausing in midair is what caught my eye but it took a second to realize how badly it was about to go. Insane seeing an aircraft go down.
So sorry you had to see that
Been on that road plenty of times myself. Just awful. Didn’t it go down near the burn pit?
@@Yeager123123 Deployed to AF four times.... lost count of the number of times i took off from BAF
I am very sorry that you had to witness that...
As they say: "Safety rules are written in blood"
@Sumit Dev Safety rules
@Sumit Dev * "in blood", actually.
Blo0d are used to write saftey rules!
with bloods ...........:)
Unfortunately: yes.
I remember when this happened. The last I paid attention to it, the investigation was still underway, but the general consensus was that the load had shifted. Hearing that they had actually discussed the load shifting and that the captain had expressed a concern just beforehand gave me chills. It just adds to the tragedy.
Got to wonder what planet that loadmaster was on. 24 straps for the lighter vehicles, yet only 26 for the significantly heavier vehicles. His incompetence killed them all.
Quick maths even with his reasoning 24 straps for 12T = 36 straps for 18T. Maybe that was it. He thought 26 instead of 36.
He wasnt trained correctly
Deathmaster🤦😢
Poppy
@@SonjaHamburg There is no excuse for failing to study more than the minimum for safety critical aviation tasks. I and the rest of the Air Force did and presumably still do. Not hard at all. I'm also a civilian A&P and general mechanic on many other systems. He was unprofessional as he could be.
"They always move" really speaks to the culture of complacency at that company. Holy moly.
This is called "Normalization of Deviance".
ikr, how can you say that out loud and not think, huh... maybe I should do something about that.
Yeah. Just couple toy trucks there. Nothing heavy....
@@cgirl111 Right, it reminds me of the Space Shuttle Challenger, they had several halfway burn throughs of the O Rings on other missions, and they thought it was normal.
I've loaded and moved heavy machinery for several years on flatbed trucks. If there is any slack or movement at all, that is unacceptable. The massive weights of these items mean that they can attain a huge amount of inertia even with an inch of accelerating distance. Straps and chains (and for cargo of this time they should have been using CHAINS, not straps! I don't care how many straps you stick on those things, I would not feel comfortable with that!) are rated based on static weight loads that they can hold, not based on the expectation of the loads gathering inertia.
I am a retired pilot with 13,000 hours in big jets, 6,000 in command. I was also a technical representative for our pilots association and worked for a short while as a consultant to Eurocontrol. I tend to avoid videos about air accidents because they are rarely accurate or even informative. This is an exception. Your explanation of this accident is clear, concise and accurate. Congratulations.
It is worrying that the failures of FAA oversight in the NTSB report seem somewhat like the failures that led to the crashes of the 737 Max. Let us hope that lessons are learned as you describe.
Thank you for your comment. We indeed can only hope that the lessons are learned at least now.
Logically you would think humans would be more responsible when dealing w life & death matters.
However the truth is that there are far too many weak points & irresponsible attitudes from the very people who are making the decisions which cause their own deaths.
In this tragedy the transport company was accepting a job which they were apparently incapable of executing properly, or certainly badly under estimating the job. There are failures on so many levels here, from the FAA, National Transport management, & personnel on plane. None of those involved here seems to understand the seriousness of failure in their jobs.
Air transport never does or act on lessons until a sizeable amount of people die. If it's cheaper to pay out damages rather than alter things on their fleet if it exceeds greatly. Pilots lose their flying mindset with auto pilot auto anything else. Not doing ground checks properly. Mistakes mistakes, people think it's only a bus service now rather than a horizontal rocket with all its risk. Crashes happen most years on average & all these jets parked up for a covid year & longer ain't a good thing & need thorough checks before taking passengers. But they won't will they..
Air Disasters did an episode over this accident and did a very good job explaining what happened. Once the smaller MRAP smashed through the aft pressure bulkhead and took out the elevator jack screw the plane and crew were doomed.
If the captain has to do a cursory check of the visual mechanicals of the aircraft before take off. Surely, the captain has to verify the load security too?
At the end of the day he is responsible for the safety of the flight.
There could be a million reasons I am missing something. Just interested.
This is the scariest one of these I've watched. The absolute dread of it is just soul-crushing, knowing that the second that plane was off the ground, they were as good as dead, completely helpless to the forces of physics.
Yes, one moment 7 healthy crewmembers are climbing out of an airport. 10 seconds later, it's all over.
Life is fragile.
I'll never forget the sound and concussive force from that crash...It missed the main gate by a few hundred meters. Our patrols for that week had to be diverted to the south gate.
@@charlesvon155obviously
NTSB missed one recommendation, have all cargo crew watch this video! When I first heard of this tragedy I thought this was simply a case of the the center of gravity shifting - either due to incorrect weight/balance calculations, or improperly secured cargo. I never realized it was the shifting cargo that disabled flight controls. Thanks for making this so understandable. And I wasn't joking about the use of quality videos like this in training. It make the theory all the more understandable. Well done.
I thought the same, that a load broke free and put the CG too far after for recovery during takeoff. Very interesting video on the real culprit.
I'd assumed that explanation too. More to it as it turns out !
I guess everybody thought the same thing.
Watching the t/o of this aircraft, I immediately realized that cargo shift was behind it. t appears that even as recent as this tragic occurrence, Cargo Airlines are operated in much the same way as Heavy Truck operations. when the operational bosses want maximized loads but haven't a clue about the dynamics of gross weights on whatever the method of shifting that load is. THis accident was created by ignorance and doubtlessly a push for getting the freight carried whatever.
The cargo flight of Fine Air 101 out of Miami back in 1997 was the cause of over weight/shifting/unbalanced load. A reasonable conclusion is usually brought on by past experience. Even if that last vehicle didn't cause the destruction of the hydraulic system, could the shift of 12 tons cause the plane to crash?
Your dog is like " oh brother i am tired of this airplane stories ! "
I'm not a pilot or load master, but I've done lots of rigging and loading on my own personal flatbed trailer (nearly every weekend for 2 years now), so I can speak to the effects of vibrations on rigging: it's INSANE how much rigging you need to provide a 99.99% guarantee that a load won't shift. It always blows my mind. You think you've restrained the HELL out of something, like...ABSURD amounts of restraints, straps, chains, blocks, and then STILL you arrive at your destination and find something has shifted. Vibration modes can surprise you in unexpected ways. There can be weird vibrational resonances that you can not predict.
You can only follow a list of best practices (applies to road travel, obviously):
0. Cam lock straps are unreliable. Throw them away right now.
1. Slow down. I repeat: SLOW THE *i&^&^ DOWN!!! I can not stress this enough. Whatever surprise vibrations that you can never, NEVER 100% predict might happen, you will increase your odds of success by slowing down.
2. Find the natural damping mechanisms in your load: strap around the tire itself if hauling vehicles, like the tow truck drivers do. This is because the air in the tire and the rubber itself acts like a spring AND a damper simultaneously, absorbing any funny business. If it's some other load, find a 'springy' part of your item, to where the load item itself can contribute to absorbing inertial shocks and surges by 'pushing back.'
3. Always always always put at least a half twist in your rachet straps that are exposed to winds to dampen wind vibrations because a.) no it doesn't weaken them and b.) yes it does absorb/deflect weird wind harmonics.
4. Rubber cords (heavy duty) are amazing. I trust them more than the straps themselves, when properly applied. This is because they have a high and forgiving failure mode, can accept tons of shock, and they try to bring the load back to neutral/balanced tension forces.
5. If you have straps or chains that are inline with a longitudinal bending moment of the trailer (these seem to be the most destructive, by far, IME), then apply rubber straps to hold consistent tension on them against the trailer.
6. Spend some time getting to know your trailer and puller: does it have longitudinal bending moments? i.e. does it have a natural respond to road bumps that causes it to go through large deflections, especially in the vertical plane? Are the deflections controlled or uncontrolled?
Just some thoughts on rigging, mostly unrelated to what happened here. I think rigging should require a certificate of some kind. Most people just get lucky. I see a lot of loads turned to carnage on the freeways.
Underrated life advice.
As a trucker, most of your advice gave me headaches. That's exactly the type of deal an amateur would suggest. Especially your talk about rubber cords. The goal of straps is actually to increase the friction between truck bed and the item you are transporting. That is achieved by a massive force pulling the item to the truck bed, ideally at an 90° angle. No dampening, no other BS, just pure force. The straps are certified for a specific force, and so are the hooks on your trailer. If for example your trailer hooks are certified for 2000 (whatever units) and you have 1000 (wu) certified straps, you can use two straps per hook and ratch them down until the ratchet doesn't move anymore. This doesn't work with fragile items though, like cardboard boxes. That is what the rubber cords are for, they apply a strong enough force for the item to not move, while not damaging the item. But this is only really recommended for lightweight items.
@ShazenVideos agreed. I worked as a C17 Loadmaster and have extensive experience restraining cargo and this comment is just plain bad.
CGU-1B cargo straps (used in aviation) are extremely reliable. Cam lock straps aren't used in aviation but that will just confuse people given the context of the comment
I was in Afghanistan at the time as aircrew (RAF), It’s taken nearly 10 years to finally watch a comprehensive analysis of what happened which I’d like to thank you for.
Flying in Afghan was a dangerous job, tactical take off and landings which went against everything the aircraft was telling you to do, throw in some hazardous cargo and daylight take off over an area known for regular IDF attacks and you have the perfect storm for disaster before you throw in any faults or inflight issue. RIP to the crew here.
The world is full of ex-military loadmasters who would have had the best training for the security of special loads and could do the job with their eyes closed, so why would any cargo carrier employ untrained staff for this job? I worked in RAF transport command with multipurpose cargo and passenger aeroplanes and one of the problems loadmasters always had was continuing their profession after leaving the force. I'm sorry to say that it's probably all about money. A top ex-military loadmaster would need to earn more than they were prepared to pay.
I totally agree with you David Jackson, it is all about the money. If professional people continue to insist on highly inflated pay checks then other professionals who sit in executive positions within companies refuse to hire at inflated rates and the irony of their decision to pay the employee the lower rate is so that they get an even more inflated bonus..... A paradoxical system ensues. So yes I think you are indeed 100% correct! moneymoney-GREED-moneymoney-GREE…
I was thinking the same. Also if they were unsure of the load which they weren't used to couldn't USAF have helped advise about strapping down.
So there in lies the problem. Why not use USAF to start with and not contract the job out? Money. USAF have C17s, C5s both capable of such airlifts and with loadies following proper procedures.
Christopher Alf is the owner...Look him up. His story is a bit odd. From college dropout to mega player in cargo. Sounds like an intelligence agent to me. Even ripped off the government with no jail time. His lawyer...Same as Cheney. These rodents need to be eliminated to save what's left of this nation. Sorry to put a negative vibe on the conversation but it's always said follow the money. I seem to find ties to a certain 3 letter agency when the money is big and fraud is involved. They use the Taxpayers like we are mules while laughing in our faces. I am tired of it.
@@Thelivewire64 because they don't actually have the money to buy and operate all the airlift they actually need. It would necessitate reshuffling the spending priorities of USAF procurement to spend more on Air Mobility Command assets, which the Air Force has NEVER wanted to do (thank you Gens. Spaatz and LeMay), and likely involve directing more funds to the Air Force, and away from the other service branches, somthing congress would never do. The Navy is in just as bad of a position in terms of ocean transport. During the latter years of the Cold War, and even more so after, Navy and Air Force decided it would be more cost effecting to basically have those services 'on retainer' as it were, to have civilian companies own and operate the vessels and aircraft, but essentially have first dibs for use, and a ready reserve in time of war. But that brings with it all the issues of no longer being part of the military, and the consequent reduction in requirements for operation.
Sorry for the mini rant, bad habit. 🙃
I remember when that happened and everyone said they thought the load shifted. But I never heard the part about the rear bulkhead and jackscrew. Thanks very much.
That was my understanding of this accident as well up until this video: That the load inside had shifted and that this was enough to cause the CG of the airplane to be outside of its limits. Though I do not know how much the CG of a 747 has to shift in order for it to become uncontrollable. Of course, as Mentour makes clear here, this 747 had suffered the sort of damage that made it uncontrollable in the aerodynamic sense.
@@Dabarda I had always thought it was a center of gravity issue as well. It looks like it was definitely more than that.
During the investigation, they did simulations/test and found, the shift of CG was not a problem, at least not a problem that would cause the crash.
This was an inexcusable tragedy.
I too have previously only heard the explanation that load shifted and caused center of gravity to change. Nobody told that it was actually more probable that cargo crashed the back of the plane breaking stuff. And the parts found on the airway clearly point out that the plane suffered huge hardware failure already before the crash.
Great content from you as always!
@Mentour Pilot, I, like many others in the comments, was at BAF on this tragic day. The lasting scrap metal and debris that remained at the North end of the runway for weeks afterwards became a daily reminder of the lives that had been lost. I saw the explosion afterwards from my room near the Southwest side of BAF, and instantly felt a sick feeling in my gut. I was scheduled to fly out of BAF only about three weeks after this occurred, and then had to drive past the wreckage multiple times each day. I still think about this on an almost daily basis, and truly think I will never forget or stop thinking about this flight.
I was always told, and understood, that the load had simply came lose, causing the balance of the plane to shift. Thank you, Peter, for actually explaining the full extent of this accident for myself, and others, to fully understand and learn from this mistake. I was also trained as an Air Load Planner while in the Army, and cannot believe that there was such a lack of care with ensuring the proper securing of the cargo.
Thank you for the great explanation and reenactment! You have earned a new subscriber!
Love the way your pup is taking a nap undistracted by all the man made stuff going on around him❤
Yeah ,what a cutie
And mysteriously disappears 😂
Omg, he's so deeply relaxed 😌 😍
Peter, Thank you so much for your detailed review of this incident. I manage ramp ops for a very large cargo airline. Everyone who works in cargo should absolutely watch this. I take pride in my work and this is why we have very specific procedures that go line by line in the manuals to make sure this doesn’t happen again. Thank you for what you do! Keep up the great work!
Thank YOU for your kind words and for watching.
Did you procedures, training, and/or certification change as a result of this, or did they already encompass this kind of load? (Or does your airline simply not ship these unusual loads?)
Finally a video which “actually” explains what happened. All others just mentioned that the cargo moved. Loved the way how you explained in Dutch easy details. Thank you, I have my closure. 😊🙏🏻
Agreed I always saw the cargo moved and I am like no way it changed the CG that much to cause an aggressive pitching maneuver like that.
unfortunately.. those pilots also had their 'closure'.
@@nocare oh it absolutely can.
And, as you saw here, it absolutely *did.*
@joal incontrol What joal said
All the scenario is mentioned in the final report on website he explained deep down what actually happened and how did one of the vehicle got loose and destroyed the hydraulics of the aircraft..
"Those who refuse to remember history are doomed to repeat it."
I'm shocked that the FAA didn't take as an example the 1981 Pushkin Tu-104 crash, which occurred in almost exactly the same way as this crash, although maybe without the catastrophic disabling of elevator control. Even the Soviets, notorious for hiding their failures, were forthright about the cause of that crash at the time.
There's a great documentary here in RUclips about that accident. Try searching for "When the Soviet Navy Lost 16 Admirals in a Single Accident: The Tu-104 Crash at Pushkin"
Ex military and with a truck licence, I have to say that as soon as the words straps was mentioned, I knew what would happen. When you're tying any kind of machinery down...you always use dog chains. You can actually see them in a couple of shots, where people are tying normal vehicles down, and these guys were trying to hold down up to 18 tonnes with nylon straps. Unbelievable that they had absolutely no training whatsoever, and then even joked about movement. Their poor families.
Oh gosh. As an engineer this brings back such painful memories . In my case visiting relatives on a farm site not related at all to my work. There was a contract crew there erecting a large shed (like 100mx50m area). As I was driving away after the visit I glanced over at the site and my immediate thought was that the frame did not seem to be properly braced while they were assembling roof trusses. But hey, I was a process/mechanical engineer, not a building engineer and not my job right? Even so I came within a whisker of turning around and going back to make my thoughts known. Next morning the wind picked up and the whole lot came down with the crew working up on it - fortunately no one injured but that was more luck than anything else. Moral of the story: If you see something like that which makes you feel uneasy particularly if you have at least some technical knowledge of what is going on, don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself for peace of mind. You might just save a life! In this case, the correct bracing struts were a late delivery so the crew pushed ahead too far in the schedule with what they had.
Oddly in Canada engineers are by law _allowed_ and *required* to step up when they see a public safety hazard even if they are just passing by (similar to Medical Doctors that have to help, even if they are just happen to be there). On the other hand: Engineering is so complex, that it is hard to know if something is "innovative" and "safe by unconventional means" or just insane. (Imagine taking a modern car 100/200 years back in time and explaining why that thing is safe to a steam vessel inspection engineer)
Here, in Australia, we had a mining engineer in the city noticed a walkway that had some cracking. He called the City Council and they had the walkway closed and the laneway below it closed as well. Later that night the whole thing came tumbling down. Had that engineer not seen the cracks and not reported it, any number of people could have been seriously injured, or worse. This was as people were leaving work, so pedestrian traffic was high.
@@sarowie Yup, that's what I was about to write. Notice something that seems fundamentally wrong and poses a significant public hazard, file a report with whoever is in charge and the professional order, they'll assign someone with proper qualifications to look it over and decide whether further action is warranted. I'd imagine something coming down the day after you reported it would lead to some interesting follow-up conversations.
@@teardowndan5364 I SHOULD NOT BE UNDER THE BLUE LAWS & INVOLVED IN NATIONAL CRIME’S.
I SHOULD NOT BE UNDER A POLITICAL POLICY CORRUPT ENTERPRISE WHOM FALSIFIED MEDICAL DOCUMENTS & STOLEN PROPERTY & STOLEN INSURANCE CLAIMS ON PROPERTY’S I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. THIS IS HORRIFIC💔
@@teardowndan5364 Honestly, I think this principle applies in general to anybody, even where specific expertise may be lacking...? We're all in this together. If anybody sees a possible public hazard when out and about, I'd beg them to please - find out who the responsible regulator/organisation is & take a minute out of your day to notify them! If you feel scared or embarrassed to do so, remember you can ask to have your details kept confidential. (But PLEASE, don't just make an anonymous report - agencies often later find they need more info to confirm the site, & if inspectors can't contact you back they're significantly impaired in following up!) Most local councils even have super-easy-to-use reporting apps these days.
If you see something odd when getting on a plane, I'd say always ask a FA there too...? It may be nothing in which case no harm no foul, but I'm mindful of the instance where a passenger said she saw propagating cracks on boarding the disastrous 'instant convertible' Aloha Air flight & said nothing...
The idea that the captain felt there's something not right about this. It's always how you feel about things in addition to the knowledge and experience. Overall, very good illustration.
I grew up with the father of the captain on this flight and still live in the same community…This was devastating to the family & friends with the loss of such a young son & father…when I heard of this my heart sank & think of it often still. Now finally seeing your video explaining exactly what caused this to happen (thank you) & how important it is to have specialized training & certification for this type of responsibility is essential. RIP Brad Hasler & crew.
@@lpjbirdsorry man i know its a year old comment but iam really sorry to hear that
The captain had the right feeling but wrong response, RIP
Feeling is often unconscious experience speaking. Sometimes.
We all know the graphics about this channel, what has got me hooked is, the amazing technical details and no dumbed down version with unnecessary “soap opera” style theatrics!!
Geekiness to the brim!!
Thank you!
This guy is just amazing 👏
I was deployed when this happened literally 16 hours in country. The sound of the engine drew my attention, bloody crazy seeing a 747 slamming into the ground less than 700 meters away.
I found it pretty devastating just seeing it on youtube, cannot imagine how horrific it must have been in real life.
I was on my way out after a 2 year stay at Bastion. Was there for the "Battle of Bastion". No, the rumor that they were after Prince Harry was not correct, they were after the Harrier squadron next to where I was working and got their target sad to say. I honestly don't remember if this crash was before or after I left, but very close to the time I departed. I came on a C5 in 2011 then they were using commercial flights by the time I left. Strange thing is the rumors I heard about it indicated it was a military cargo plane with with a crew of Afghan nationals, which didn't sound right. I was surprised to find out it was a commercial flight later. I also didn't know about the Jacking screw. Being a private pilot and seeing the video of the crash, It was obvious there was a major load shift though. Figured that out on my own. I think that would have been enough on its own.
On a more positive note, one day while I was driving the perimeter road from Camp Leatherneck to the airfield an Antonov 225 flew right over me and landed. I didn't understand what I was seeing at first. I thought the Russians were invading again
I bet the ground shook?
@@seth7745 Marine Corp has plenty of planes. It’s a loss, but the real loss are those that died or where badly injured.
Just wondering, what were the Air Force personnel doing during the battle?
Man, that is just horrifying. The thought of being the pilot in charge and being completely unable to keep your crew safe is so scary that I can't put it into words.
I was thinking the same thing. He knew what was going to happen and could do nothing about it. Horrifying.
Scary for the last 30 seconds as they all had the realisation that they were going to die. Fully fuelled too. 'The crew did not survive' = there were no remains due to the intensity of the explosion and fire. Very sad.
Sadly, he had a shot at keeping his crew safe: he should have stopped down when the reports of loose straps came up. There is no insignificant explanation for that happening.
being the pilot in charge and NOT telling the load master to secure the load better ... easy fix he was worried and DID NOTHING about it ... he got what he asked for ... a shifted load that killed everyone ... by not doing his JOB he is at fault fully
@@0623kaboom How is the pilot responsible for the cargo being correctly loaded?
I went through the USAF load planner course when I was in the Army and we took this stuff REALLY serious on air lift operations. I cringed throughout a lot of this video as I knew what they'd done right away, even though I was only trained for load planning for military aircraft, not civilian aircraft. I've always said that when someone says, "Don't worry about it, I know what I'm doing," it can end in tears
The Dashcam footage of the incident is very heavily protected by copyright. Your wize not to use it at all in the video.
Shame, big shame.
Yeah right, the US goverment would've rejected it since it hinders investigations
The amazing thing about these is how often gut instinct of one or more crew members says something is wrong, even if not knowingly breaking a rule. Gut instinct is as important as rules for telling you when something is wrong.
I love the way you never show the point of impact, so respectful
I’m not in Aviation. I’ve had a long career in the Automotive field and what I’ve noticed in my career is that sometimes people develop bad habits way, way before anything bad happens, and just because they’ve gotten “away with it” for so long, they come to believe they way they are doing is good enough or better than the manual so, why not do it my way? Probably the Loadmaster, and I am not trying to put all the blame on this one guy, had secured cargo like these vehicles, many, many times. As I understood it, he was on the aircraft making the trip with the pilots. So he had every reason or motivation to do everything just right. But that’s what I mean, sometimes people in many different occupations, vocations, careers, develop bad habits or learn to do something not exactly “by the book” and are successful doing this way for, years sometimes, that even though they are getting this “gut feeling” that something is wrong, they’ve done it this way for so long that, it must be right. The fact that there was no specific protocol or procedure in the “manual” about how to secure these vehicles on board, how many straps per vehicle, slack or tension on the straps, didn’t help the situation much either. Also, why not have another person besides the Loadmaster check and make sure everything is just right. An extra pair of eyes and an extra brain on the case never hurts.
😷🇨🇺🇺🇸
@@danieliglesias6278 this reminds me of the Challenger and Columbia space shuttle. In both cases the cause was very well known before, but the risks were judged much lower than the actual level, because they have "gotten away with it" in the past.
@@danieliglesias6278
very well expressed
@@danieliglesias6278 Yeah, gut feelings tend to be considered as terrible "friends". However, by nature gut feelings are sort of a subconscious signal to react to something! I mean there is no native "ignore" by design. In my opinion omitting gut feelings as you described at work is always the result of conscious training. And thank god we are able to overrride them by training and still: A low-altitude nose-down to avoid stalling keeps being counterintuitive no matter what training you went through. Since I consider "getting away with it" as conscious training, I suppose their gut feeling would have saved them.
@@danieliglesias6278 The problem is, when you gut says you something is wrong, but by the book it is correct. Double checking it by the book "proves" it correct. So, what next?
This exact incident (complete with the footage) was actually shown and analysed during training as a passenger services (check-in and gate) agent. Even though we didn't handle ULDs at our (relatively small) airport, and occasional flights of maximum 186 pax, it was made very clear how important weight and balance was. In addition to the tail-tipping while loading the ATR-72s, mitigated by loading the front pax first, along with the front cargo, it was also important to get the bag weights right. Not only was it important for getting the charges right (for better or for worse), but some of the planes, especially the 49-seat SAAB 2000s and ATR 42s, were extremely CoG sensitive, to the point where a few overweight bags in the wrong hold could push it from in trim to out of trim. To my knowledge, everything was done to the highest standards, however it's easy to see how financial, time and human factors could cause mistakes to be made, however this accident shows the grave consequences of getting it massively wrong. Condolences of course to the families and friends of everyone involved, it's very clear that lessons have been learned from this, and hopefully any future accidents like this can be avoided.
It might be worth adding that one of the other videos we were shown was presented by Bruce Dickinson, singer in Iron Maiden and 757 & 747 Pilot. Somewhat more lighthearted and typical corny corporate video, but definitely helped drill it in how important cargo weights, as well as passenger seats and numbers, are.
@@ninjaz5736 "Safety in the Balance" same Video was shown during my Training as Ramp Agent (slightly more relevant since I actually supervise loading, even thought I don't do any load planning)
@@devial9879 that's the one! Yeah we didn't do any load planning ourselves but we did have to bump pax around in the system occasionally due to trim, and it's definitely good to have an insight into why we have to do things a certain way!
That was the takeaway but rather erroneous, as the weight distribution was fine, it was cargo breaking lose that caused the issue causing control damage. The main issue with moderate weight distribution (without moving centre of mass behind the centre of lift) issues is a massive impact on fuel efficiency. The big issue is strapping - most places do it wrong to this day.
How many straps do you need? times it by 4. never not them. Don't twist them, except a single twist in the presence of any wind/ open air. Don't forget water and age severely impacts strap ratings. Hard points can also fail, so check their loadings.
Me and my dad were moved up from economy to business (or whatever the equivalent was) on a 320 from LHR to CDG a few years back presumably to balance CoG. Pretty amazing that's all it took.
I wasn't there for the crash, but I did spend a lot of time in and around Bagram. I just gotta say- you or whatever program you're using did a hell of a job getting the mountains in the background right. I'm not sure if anyone else picked up on that, but damn... that's a high level attention to detail.
@@justinhamilton8647 That's pretty cool. I think the last time I flew MSFS was back in '95 or so. It sure has changed a bit!
I worked as a cargo export handler for AF, KL & BA for a couple of years, building ULDs and pallets.
So many times I've had to fix straps from other people because they put them super loose and it's just ridiculous.
We're talking 8000kg+ pallets with loose straps.
That was by far the most stressful job I've ever had.
Building 3 flights a day (or more if I had to do more than one airline) and having to make sure it's all good is not easy.
Sad to see this happen like this. But knowing the business (and the quality of work very much depends on the airport and company) this doesn't surprise me all that much.
Really appreciating this series!
Glad to hear it
@@MentourPilot It really is a great series! I may have binge watched the whole series a few weeks ago :P It is so full of information and immensely more entertaining than the 40+ minute long episodes of some aircraft investigation shows
@@nster3 agreed. very good content and very well put together!
me too
@@MentourPilot Hey Petter, could you do a video on the black hole effect? It seems really bizarre from the little I know about it.
I've seen several videos on this accident. Yours is a step ahead of the rest. I've liked your channel for a awhile, but your accident videos are a whole other level.
Yep. I've watched many accident reports over the years, and the one's that Mr Mentour has been running explained things so much better than the TV series and flight channels.
When Mr Mentour released a new accident report video, I thought aha, I've seen this one, and know the cause....
But after watching Mr Mentour explain it in proper detail, you can see there's a lot more to the incident than you thought you knew.
Thank you Sir! 😊👋👍
All the info on this has been out there for quite a while. Detailed reports on the wreckage location etc. Along with actual video of the addident as seen from a car almost in the flight path.
I'd be scared that he'd burn himself out if he tried to do it better and better to keep the compliments flowing. Maybe he should just settle for being the best for a while.
I personally don’t understand anything about this & I know of anyone in a Aircraft Crash. All this is major fraud! It’s no wonder all the corrupt software they used to to where I was not able to afford internet & report anything. CRIMINALS
I just recently came across your channel by way of 74Gear and I have to say, I'm absolutely addicted. I've been gladly binge watching your videos lol. One thing I will say is the effort you put into the production of your videos is off the charts. The editing, the documents, the graphics etc...are amazing, as well as your knowledge about what you're talking about as well as being such a great presenter. Keep up the good work man!
Thanks to Mentour Pilot for this respectful treatment of this horrific accident. RIP to the 7 victims and my sincere condolences to their families and friends.
Well done, Petter. I saw a report on this accident several months ago. The vehicles were properly restrained against vertical movement, but not horizontal movement. The Afghan government likes to clean up airplane crash debris quickly. The NTSB investigators made a second trip to the crash site and found the damaged elevator jack screw was still there. This was one of the key factors that helped determine what had happened. I saw the original video and it was gut-wrenching. RIP, crew.
15:07 I really appreciate that these accident videos are done with respect and a focus on learning from mistakes.
But he still used a simulation of the crash, complete with massive fireballs and eruptions.
I don’t understand this
Thank you, Capt. This is a very clear explanation of what happened that day, I was in Bagram airfield on that horrific day those were the last few days of my sixth deployment to Afghanistan with the US National Guards. My sincere condolences to all the crew member families. If you go a bit deeper in this case, remember departing from camp Lethenick Helmand which is very flat, coming true Hindukush mountain to Bagram airfield which is 4900 feet above sea level, all six vehicles the two MRAP and four RJ are equipped with diesel engines and air brakes, the crew stapped all vehicles yet I am positive during loading and stopping them they applied the vehicle air brakes as well, landing in Bagram was coming high with high posable speed and ditch the aircraft due to war, don't you think during landing one of the vehicles air brakes disengaged and only moved 2 or 3 inches, during takeoff, I think the second vehicle backed onto the last small MRAP and started the chain reaction , Captian please elaborate on this theory. Love your channel sir
Fantastic episode. That crash was heartbreaking and I've always wanted to see a video like this about it. 10/10, your channel is outstanding.
Also love the pupper on the couch with you 😊
It's almost beyond belief that they've been entrusting people to secure and carry cargo of that nature without proper training, procedures and certification. Accident waiting to happen.
With a job description of load master, you'd expect they are certified trained specialists.
Having no experience in logistics whatsoever my immediate reaction would be to imagine the vehicle pulling at the straps and chains that attach it from one direction and then divide its weight by the number of the straps. Now if the force was evenly distributed among them, I'd still have used double the amount they used as a baseline.
I bet they did that to save money.
Well....what about Boeing Max 7 accident of Air Asia and Ethiopian airlines...are our lives in the hands of such people..
The one person said sixty straps were needed . While as a truck driver I know that if too many straps are needed then switch to chains
I am a programmer/researcher but I had similar reaction too. When you have a super heavy load, and you use relatively weak straps to secure it, you are in the danger of cascade failure of the straps, when they overload and snap one by one, even if their combined strength should have been enough. That happens from asymmetric load, especially if they are able to come even _slightly_ loose.
That's the USAF reg. Plus straps stretch. Chains and MB-1 or MB-2 devices.
ahh the 5000lb strap vs the 10000 chain...... sound good in theory... both are as good as the weakest link and this is usually the tiedown point. Using a 10000lb chain on a 5000lb tiedown point means you have a max of 5000lb restraint then you have to calculate the angle of restraint. So no, using a chain instead of 2 straps does not always work.
That won't work. The tie points in the floor are too weak for this. Spam of straps are needed to spread the load.
You give a good quick heavy shot to a strap and they will all break down. Chains are much stronger. Did they had any chains in stock and wheel chocks? My guess is NO !!!
I’m not a pilot, but I find these videos fascinating.
I am a pilot and the videos are extremely well done .....
This man need his own tv show with a huge budget for the re-enactments. You’re an excellent story teller.
Agree, but let’s resist the temptation to add re-enactments…they cheapen the story and make it seem like some crappy soap opera. This format is great.
@@Amoraszune that, and having this format allows to tell just the story without having to find 20 minutes of filler to fill a 45m slot if it's a shorter story
Disagree. Huge budgets ruin good art most of the time. With big budgets come big politics and lack of creative freedom.
In commercialization you forfeit content control to a production team, to a manager, to a budget manager, to a producer, to an executive producer, to the CEO, to the money ppl, ad nauseam.
Yeah, i'll never forget seeing that video. Seeing the plane just roll onto it's side and drop out of the sky like a brick is unforgettable. May the crew rest in peace.
“Trust, but Verify”.
Complicity: Enters the chat.
Distrust and verify, is a better model
@@Jon_Ringo Yeah, exactly my philosophy
@@Jon_Ringo Nope, “Trust, but Verify” is correct and
@@VMCAviationVideos obviously you have never worked for the government...
You are the hardest working of the plethora of aviation educators. I find I have to see an incident I have seen elsewhere again here because of your contents. Most I have seen say " load moved". That cockpit discussion and that hydraulic rupture never discussed. Thanks Petter ( and dog)
Continue the very good work of research and information Bravo !!!
I remember that day at Bagram, our main base camp about 30 miles from Kabul, in the Himalayas. I just drove by that end of the runway, (north end), right before the airplane crashed there. I had turned and was heading south, out on the perimeter road, when it crashed, so I did not actually see it happen. When I got to the south yard, about 10 minutes later, I parked and someone asked if I saw the airplane crash. That was the first time I knew anything about it. There was some conexes stacked, blocking the view.
The runway has markers I remember going up to 14,000 feet. The airplane crash was across the road from the north end of the runway, at the landfill / burn-pit. A truck driving there almost got hit. All I could see from the south end, was black smoke. There was rumors flying that it was the freedom bird, the airplane that our folks take to go out on leave time. Later saw the MRAPs at the crash sight. We figured no one could of survived.
A very bad day at Bagram! Hope to never see anything like that again!
Wow! I, along with I think most pilots, believed this was caused by a weight and balance issue. I think we all correctly figured that the load had become unrestrained and shifted dramatically in flight, but it's so interesting to see that the actual cause was so much worse than just a W&B shift. From the animation, it looks like if the weight has simply shifted as depicted, the airplane still would have been controllable. I can't imagine how those pilots felt when they suddenly lost all elevator control.
I'm not a pilot but when I heard it was a cargo flight that pitched sharply nose up on rotation I assumed it was just a shift. Then Petter began explaining about the hydraulics and I got a cold feeling this was not just shifting load.
Correct, it was shown in simulations that if ALL the vehicles had shifted backwards to the aft position, the aircraft would still been controllable.
I'm really glad that you didn't show the video of the accident. Very well put together report/video. I did AC MXT and as a mechanic, I always double checked my work, and if we worked as a two man team, we checked each others work. Cheers to every one in aviation !!!
As someone who is a massive fan of crash investigation documentaries, it’s safe to say that you are now one of my new favourite YT channels.
Amazing production, zero dramatisation (I cannot appreciate that enough), facts and brilliantly explained logic that makes them accessible for aviation civilians.
Thank you so much!
Can I just say that having your dog relaxing beside you was a great counterbalance to the stressful content of the video. More of her/him, please....
somebody had to say it! that pupper looks just sooo dang comfy up on the couch layin out like the good little doggie he is. nice full belly I bet, snoozin. Definitely makes this video a bit easier of a pill to swallow.
@@rick15666 ☆
The doggone makes accident videos way easier to watch
@@racheljennings8548 Agreed.
Yes, bring back the dogs! Missing them in the newer videos.
Good info. I am however concerned, your dog is uninterested.
Yeah, he wasn’t to enthusiastic 😂
@@MentourPilot too*
I'm sorry I just had to
@@MentourPilot Hello Mentour, hope you are well good sir. Much love and thanks for your great content! Superb brother👌
Maybe the dog had heard all about it already?
Clearly the doggo isn't planning on being a cargomaster for a millitary transport aircraft anytime soon.
I have a question here: several people noticed the stress on the belts and they knew this was not right. Both jokingly and seriously, they stated various times, between themselves, that things were not as they should have been. Yet, apparently they don't do anything to remedy the problem that it is very clearly in front of them. The question arises why weren't all the belts changed, and why weren't they increased in number. The suspicion I have is that there was some pressure from the Company to not waste time, and/or there were not the proper amount and quality of belts available at the airport. I don't understand how can the crew have noticed the problem, just to ignore it.
Get there itis. Also, as you said probably not being empowered by the company and pressured. However, the captain of an aircraft is pretty much a god by both tradition and law so the captain could’ve and should’ve immediately called off any operations. The company might’ve been pissed but there’s not much they could do about it. This is why integrity is paramount in life!
I was a flatbed trucker, and I always used more straps than the other guys. So I was slower to get to the destination and didn't get paid as much because I did fewer runs. Yes I had an incident when a car cut in front of me and I had to slam on my brakes with a load of steel flooring for buildings. The load shifted forward four feet and cut several straps. But it did not hit my cab. I had over strapped, and I had used strap protectors.
I have seen a couple of videos and TV programs explaining this horrific disaster. With that said, your explanation was so clear that it altered how I interpreted my prior understanding of the tragedy. You were able to explain more clearly, and in much less time than the other videos. Your production is top-notch. This is only the second video I have watched of yours (after watching your interview with Kelsey from @74gear), and am happy I subscribed after the first. I look forward to watching more of your videos soon! Thank you, and stay safe!
the strap calculation difference to me seems to come from them using different figures for the expected g-forces. it's not enough to just calculate the load and divide it out by capacity per strap and add margin, but rather the load x some g force where they severely under estimated the g-forces involved. the straps being loose after first leg should have immediately terminated the flight until it was properly secured (not just re-tightened because if it came lose once it will obviously happen again)
When one strap fails, its load is asymmetrically transferred to the remaining straps. If one does not account for this in one's calculations, then one strap failing could overload another, and another, and so on. In civil engineering, when a bridge has this flaw it is called "Fracture-critical".
Yes, that's the impression, if it loosened and moved once, it could happen again.
The first flight was not mentioned as to be particular turbulent (otherwise adding more straps to compensate for damaged straps would have sounded like a very reasonable thing). A second take off should be less turbulent then what you assume for "worst in flight scenario". Someone here in the comments suggested, that the number of strips is not only terminated by the load, but also by the securing points on the floor. When you run out of "ideal" anchoring points, you will simply use anchoring points that are less ideal, but you have to derate the strap as compensation for non ideal position. That offcourse is cascading: Fill up the "ideal" anchoring points with straps, take the next anchoring points and derate the straps, take the next anchoring points and derate the straps, ...
I think the bigger difference comes from what strap points available. A strap point too far forward/backward will nit handle side forces as well. Strap points forward/backwards consumed with straps for another vehicle means strap points too much to the side will be less effective for forwards/backwards forces. And to then allow the vehicle to stand on yhe wheels and bump up/down on the suspension will derate the useful load capacity of some of the straps even further.
You know... I wouldn't be surprised if they told you "we've always done it like that and it had always worked". Strict security measures really only start to be applied when something happens unfortunately.
"..And the FAA had severely failed in their oversight.."
I've heard that before...
Takes dedicated funding and official willpower to keep a civilian regulatory agency's teeth sharp and strong. The US provided neither for decades. The fault goes far beyond the FAA.
@@sawning3449 Yeah, the FAA is not the reason the US is classified as a flawed democracy so to speak
The US is a great model for inappropriate blurred-lines between state and corporations....
@@sawning3449 Yes, dedicated funding of any regulatory agency requires sufficient tax revenue collections, which have been decreasing steadily for decades. We are indeed lucky there havent been many more airplane accidents. But in the case of other oversight agencies, incidents have increased to unacceptable levels.But the cry to continue cutting taxes seems to be a constant refrain.
You mean like the FAA basically ignoring the utter clusterf*** of the 737 Max and the culture of "lives are a cost of doing business" mentality that pervades Boeing these days?
What I find interesting is that the FAA admitted that their preventative approach was too lax, and thus caused loss of life
Thanks for the videos. I’ve always wondered what happened to this aircraft. I was deployed there during this time and remember hearing the crash. It was very distinct and different than the regular mortar attacks we got. A few days later I was contacted by the investigation team to cut out the elevator actuators.
Military loadmasters (C-5, C-17, C-130) go through initial 6-9 months of training.
Second thing is that civilan airlines use straps. Military always use chains that have 10 000- or 25 000 lbs capacity. This type of load shift due to lack of restraint would never happen on a military aircraft.
Which is why you don't see heavy equipment on flat bed trailers tied down with straps, they use chains. Straps always have some amount of stretch, and when you have heavy dynamic loads like this, they're likely stretching at different amounts which means some are being overloaded until one fails and then you get a cascading failure of all of them. Also, when you do use straps on a trailered vehicle, you tie down the wheels so the suspension can take the load and not the straps (obviously you can't do that on a plane).
What I thought. How did they want to held armored vehicles with straps, especially where they can roll (no friction helping you here), unbelievable.
Never say “never.” That kind of thinking can lead to this kind of sequence of events.
Ah, but it *was* a load shift, from military transport aircraft whose loadmasters knew what they were handling into the hands of innocents who tried to do the impossible.
@@DuRoehre90210 If you look at the video again the vehicles were Chained to double pallets that were strapped, the vehicles most likely did not move on the pallet, the flat pallet slid with the vehicle riding on it like a surfboard.
I find this series fascinating! I'm no pilot, and the loss of life is frightening, but the engineering and the ability to rebuild the aircraft from the wreckage, in order to determine the sequence of events is awesome!
Very sad story. Your video and commentary provided great details of this tragedy, but gave honor to the flight crew.
No camera in the cargo hold at any date past year 2010 is an atrocious crime as a safety engineer I say.
What could be done at that point?
@Suzy Turquoise Blue He could have detected motion or some inconsistency MAYBE. The cameras should still be there to inform the pilot.
You 'negligent criminals' act like you were there in the cargo hold and saw everything in great detail.
I remember when it went down the Taliban tried to take claim for shooting it down, so that's the first thing we heard. I landed in a blackhawk helicopter on BAF runway 3 circa May 20th 2013. There was still a massive scrap pile of parts from the plane there. It was a unexpectedly sober sight. Some of the soldiers in my unit saw it go down and it really freaked them out. RIP to the crew.
This is awful. They were so close to avoiding the disaster. All that would have been needed was for the pilot to be a little more assertive on securing the load, which wouldn't even have been necessary if the airline had offered better training.
Sad!
Absolutely correct
It's also the pressure of economics , I know some pilot's don't want to be the reason for delay of the flight resulting in escalating cost.
Offcourse after the fact , such desicion looks logical , however imagine the Captain grounding or delaying the flight due to load concern costing extra money to cargo airline , only to be told later he overreacted and his over reaction costed the airlines losses due to the delay.
Therefore Unfortunately it's not black and white
@@dimitrz2000 and that's an extremely unfortunate reality. Where a pilot can't do what they think is right without fear of repercussions if it turns to be nothing.
The load was VASTLY more than the aircraft could safely and legally handle. Nobody on the plane or in the entire company realized that, or understood how complex it was to secure that kind of load. Even if they had added more straps they almost certainly wouldn't have been enough, as you rapidly run out of the tie-down points positioned appropriately and you start to have to de-rate the strap capability as you use the ones you have.
@@k53847 and that's how boeing came up with 60 per vehicle.
I remember seeing this on the news as a teen. I remember they were discussing that the last word heard on the flight recorder was "wait," and whether the pilot was actually saying "weight" to indicate that they realized what exactly had happened too late. I don't know, that detail always stuck with me and chilled me to think about.
You,without a doubt give us the best produced, most informative and interesting video’s of any of the aviation vidio’s
THANK YOU
Nice to see your dog back in the video. All of this series is fascinating as well.
"they always move when not strapped properly"
continues with not strapping anything properly
If I was the pilot then I would have immediately gone off on that guy. Like, dude just admitted he didn't do his job properly and already had potentially put everyone in danger. Like, how can you be that casual about something that could (and unfortunately did) kill them all if not done properly?
Er, that isn't what happened, I don't think- he just failed to realise it. The straps were not loose, they had stretched. Its possible it was caused by not enough tension in the OTHER straps, but also not enough. So, I expect he tightened up the "loose" ones, giving more force on the ones most likely to break.
It is entirely possible that the rails failed, however, with the increased pressure of tightening- due to lack of strap distribution, but as said, many experts also though that seemed like enough straps. The knots thing is a bit up in the air, but it is still possible for the failure not to have directly been his fault. The very nature of special cargo involves strapping to hard points, but he clearly had no way to know how much each of them could take.
I think the big disconnect was a clear lack of guidance on how it ought to be done by people with engineering degrees to calculate stress loadings and explain strap strength with age and knots and folds and moisture, and how you need at least 4x tolerance to expected forces.
If you ask an untrained monkey to fly a plane for example, is the monkey at fault when it crashes?
Why dont they use chains ? Lazy fucks drive them cross country !
recently found your channel. Have slowly learned about flight as I have been in awe of it since I was 3.
I absolutely LOVE the descriptions you give. It helps to learn the parts, and their functions for new flight junkies.
Thanks a lot I look forward to binge watching all of your videos now.
I've not seen any other RUclips channel like this, unlike Air Crash Investigation or Seconds from Disaster, this breaks down incidents based on what the flight crews would and did do. It's fascinating to watch and gives me (someone who isn't a pilot) even more respect and admiration for those who put hundreds of lives at a time in their hands when flying from point to point. The fact that the aviation industry has come a long way in terms of Safety is something that is to be admired
I remember seeing this accident on tv news back then, and the first thing that comes to my mind was "cargo shifted". I used to work as a first officer on the B747-200SF cargo aircraft in the late 1990s.
"Those heavy thing aren't gonna move" wait WHAT? Every truck driver knows that's the misconception that gets most people killed. Heavy things move if exerted to enough inertia. I learned in driving school for a freaking forklift -.-
Some years ago a friend of mine was transporting a pair of two huge rocks in his little van without secure them. I estimate that one of these rocks weighted 200kg or more. As i told him: "Are you crazy, you have to secure the rocks!" he answered: "Ah, no, they will not move because they are too heavy too move..."
Physics at its best... 🤦🏻♂️
He probably wasn't thinking, in that moment, of the dozens of ball bearings they were freely moving on once the straps broke.
My experience securing loads in vans and on trucks agrees with this.
In my van, I assessed what was likely to be needed should I be involved in an accident - not just poodling along, or under normal braking.
To reduce the risk of getting crushed by six or eight drums of cable - each weighing about 50kg, I succured them with rope back under the back door to the tow hitch. Of course even this could fail, but better than just gravity.
On a flatbed truck, whilst the straps used held the load from dropping off the sides, again the forward movement during either extreme braking or a collision, relied mainly on the straps effectively 'increasing' the weight of the load, increasing the friction onto the bed, as the load moved slightly forward; which changes the angle of the straps, increasing the tension.
This is a self tightening system - more movement, more tension. The limit to the system is: the breaking strength of the straps, the integrity of the frame being strapped down - if either the strap or the frame break, the security is compromised.
Using chains was the only sensible way of restraining wheeled construction plant machinery!
It seems madness NOT to require chains on aircraft. In this case, whether in vans, on lorry beds or in aircraft, the weak point are the securing lugs - in the case of this transport plane, each lug would have needed to withstand many times the physical weight!
Ultimately an upper required strength is that required to rip a plane fuselage in half longitudinally! This would be a strength of lug that maintains load integrity DURING a CRASH; providing SOME possible protection for the pilots in such an event.
@@MisterIvyMike If the vehicle can move with them in, they can move in the vehicle! And it doesn't matter what they or the vehicle are!
"exerted to enough inertia"....? Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its velocity.
Thanks! This is a very thorough analysis of a terrible accident. As someone who teaches and certifies ground support technicians in aircraft weight & balance, I appreciate the insights this video offers. I highly recommend this video to anyone who is responsible for aircraft weigh & balance and flight loading.
Thank you so much for your wonderful support!! I am happy you found it helpful!
Thank you for not showing the actual footage of the crash. Wish more channels would have that same respect.
Hello thanks for your comments and supports, your comments and constant support has brought me this far. Keep supporting ❤️, please send me a message on Hangouts via
An experienced military load master needed to certify this load.
I am an engineer. I look at this case and I think, "WTF?!" That load was an Engineering Problem. And yet it was treated casually. It is astounding to me. But again, I am an engineer....so I expect to see some rigorous engineering behind the loading...which there wasn't.
This didn't happen very long ago and it is troubling in an overall systems aspect: air travel is FRAGILE. Not merely the planes, but the SYSTEM.
Even my gut feel says "this is going to go badly". 24 straps for the smaller vehicles, um OK -- I don't know much about load management, so ... fine. But then they only used +2 for the larger load. How does that make any sense?
He does such a great job sharing these stories and findings of these investigations. So sad.
9:30 "60 straps" would snap in cascade if turbulence etc. is hard enough. Should have used chains instead or on the corners at least. Even in a trailer.
This is actually very relevant to future cargo pilots, these are very good things to understand
Thank you. This is the first time I've encountered such a concise and compassionate examination of this accident. Until I'd seen your video I didn't have a full appreciation of the extent of the cargo shift and the interference with the pitch controls that shift had.
In a former life, I was a military air ops clerk and served twice in the Middle East. We would often partake in good humoured rivalry and banter with the 'Movers'. These were the logistics personnel tasked with securing loads to palettes and assisting loadmasters during loading. I wish your video could be shown as part of trade training, for all trades involved with air freighting. There's a lot to learn here by everyone involved with air transport. Thank you.
I love your videos, the way you present them, and explain the incidents, not to mention the thoroughness of the research and calmness of your voice. Thank you
Really great videos, but this one was exceptional. Very well done, informative, and I appreciate the work you do. Great production. Great animations.
I left Bagram Air Field about a day, maybe two before this happened.
Truly, this is nightmare stuff.
Just to add 2 small points:
1. In B747F (older ones at least that I worked with) there are no locks in the center position where these vehicles were loaded, so the pallets are loaded in what is called "floating" position.
It means that only the straps are keeping the cargo in place.
Also, you should take into consideration that the cargo would experience more than 1G in some events, so the calculation should be for more than the actuall weight of the cargo.
2. The orientation of the strapes are also important, there should be various angles to prevent movement up/fwd/aft/side.
We had engineers who gave us the number and orientation of straps for such cases.
Petter. Love your videos and all the editing and work. Great video!
I love your videos. I watched every episode (multiple times) of air crash investigation and every other videos/episodes about aviation disasters i can find.
I had a personal contact with the co-pilot's family and friends. An ABSOLUTE wonderful group of people. We continue are prayers for their peace and comfort.
how are they doing now? who do they blame it on?
@@KuostA As of two years ago they're all doing fine. That was the last time I had contact with the group. The television series, "Air Disasters", explains in detail the incident quite well.
@@Klaatu-ij9uz glad to hear they're doing okay. absolute travesty.
I am astounded that loadmasters never got any formal uniform training on the nature of their job....
They can cause a crash just as quickly as pilots, and as we mechanics, can...
By far the most accurate and precise accident videos on RUclips - excellent.