i want to ask is it possible a pilot flying to monitor the main display,the throttle levers,the flaps and landing gear from time to time from take off to 10 000ft at least...i seems to be possible to look for a second fot the problematic thrust levers at least...i used to drive very old and broken cars a lot and when you drive broken machine you FOCUS on the problematic component...why the FO didnt look at the levers...why he never tryied to counter the bank angle...what was he doing?man i am angry...this is not supposed to happen...r.i.p.
Great video, but just a couple of questions seem unanswered. Why was there not a bank angle warning? Was that considered lower priority than the auto pilot disconnect warning also? And did the first officer actually put in any control inputs at all to try correct the situation other than the one which deactivated the auto pilot? Do we even know what those inputs were?
That poor FO. His world was going insane nothing made sense and everything he did had the opposite effect from his intention. Alarms were blasting, his captain was dying and he couldn't even see where he was going. The panic and fear must have been horrendous. I hope that his family didn't have to put up with people blaming him for the crash. I hope he is flying in friendlier skies now.
That´s straight on the point. As an armchair pilot, sitting safe and dry in your home, you can easily state: aviate, navigate, communicate - but in his reality he had no chance. It was beyond his possibility to aviate the plane. I share your hopes deeply. RIP.
@@NicolaW72 The living can still learn from A-N-C. The 1st officer seems to have been put in an extremely unfortunate *series* of events that overwhelmed his ability to cope. It might save some lives, for those who come after, to remember that your colleague's medical emergency can only improve if you fly the airplane and get it back on the ground.
@@Nebbia_affaraccimiei It is explained in the video that he was steering his yoke to the right in an attempt to fix the roll, in fact that is the reason autopilot hasn't engaged. I think he wasn't familiar enough with Airbus's autopilot system, given the fact that most of his experience was on Ilyushins.
Usually panic is greatest, when you can't do anything and the development is slow. This was fairly quick, much quicker that it takes to tell the story.
I’m from Romania and this accident was all over media but never got a better explanation of what has happened as in this video. Great episode! Thank you
He is a trainer, backseat check pilot observing safety and service at times, and also is experienced in ensuring pilots given general licenses for his type of plane actually know how to fly it.
Cristian Stoi, the son of the FO of Tarom 371 that crashed near Bucharest, is now a pilot (captain) for Tarom. Cristian decided to become a pilot after his father crashed with ROT 371.
@@jennaeveliina313 Same, but perhaps some people feel like they should follow in the footsteps of their parents or take over their work in order to honour them. Take over the family business, so to speak.
I'm 42 years old and living a hemisphere away from my birth city. Needless to say, I have to fly lots. Problem is I've spent my life with a terrible fear of flying that makes this incredibly challenging. I have to take a horse dose of sedatives to do it and often that isn't even enough to stop my serious anxiety. Been binging your videos for last couple of months. And its been the single best thing for my anxiety. I had occasion to fly again for first time in years last month, and I was mostly fine. Your videos helped me because... 1. I now understand how many things have to go wrong for a serious crash to occur. It's nearly always multiple failure points, all of which were individually super unlikely. 2. I now understand how seriously safety is taken. 3. I also understand how incredibly clever planes are, and how much skill goes into being any part of the crew. 4. I also now understand that while the odds aren't good, they are still sometimes survival events. 5. At the beginning you always give the number of flights hours of the pilots. To imagine that many hours in the sky and still being ok, makes my once-every-4 years journeys seem just really unlikely to be the one time the plane is gonna run into a crash. 6. The happenings of the cockpit is now not some magical mystery I fully don't understand. Understanding more is empowering because you aren't just hoping for the best when you have some level of understanding about what's happening. Not saying I could fly a plane now (😂), but definitely it's not ALL some magical mystery now beyond my total comprehension either. Of course, all of these lessons would have been totally lost on me had the content not been also really engaging. So thank you for creating this for me and opening the world up for me again in a much less brutally terrifying way.
That's awesome! And very well put. About your point #5, I daresay it's actually even better than you say. Petter (Mentour Pilot) once stated that he has actually never himself even been involved in any kind of significant mishap, like an engine failure (which, as I'm sure you know by now, isn't even really as big of a problem as people usually think), and that's despite him being a very experienced captain (= many, many hours). AFAIK, pilots usually go through their entire careers without ever having anything particularly serious happening. I think I remember the statistic being that there's only a serious accident once per 11 _million_ flight hours... Meaning that you'd have to spend about 1,255 _years_ flying before you'd get in a crash, statistically speaking. I know that the numbers themselves might not help much, but the 'why' is another thing that's good to know and be aware of: we humans inherently _suck_ at *intuitively* understanding a lot of maths, such as exponential phenomena (we like things linear) and, more related to here, large numbers and probabilities. And worse, we often reactively fear/disparage what we don't understand, which, in our modern society, is a rather bad habit. I applaud you for having faced your fears through learning.
I know exactly what you mean and I related to it a lot in a lot of ways. I too live across a different continent (and hemisphere) from my home town, so I tend to fly a lot. Thankfully, I've been flying since I was a baby. I've been always used to planes, so I never suffered from anxiety or fear of planes or heights much. I may get a bit anxious now and then, but it usually goes away fast. I didn't know anything about flying either before, but binging Peter's videos have definitely made me understand it a lot better, and made me appreciate just how much time, effort and skill goes into flying an airplane. The awe and admiration I have for pilots now is a lot more than I had before. In a way, I think that's how it goes for a lot of things in life. Having dealt with homophobia for a portion of my life, I can definitely see the resemblance. People tend to fear, be scared of, or find potentially anxiety inducing things they don't understand well(flying/queer people). Understanding it doesn't necessarily mean you belong to the group/can do the thing (piloting/being queer) but it definitely makes you understand that it's not a magical realm where magical and weird things happen, and that people work together to make it work. And like you said, none of this would work if the content wasn't engaging. The fact that it's so well produced and Peter explains it in a rational way, while also showing his own experience in the area is definitely what makes it work out so well.
Isn't it so strange how learning about plane crashes makes you feel better about flying? The first time I was ever on a plane was in high school, and I basically started on hard mode: a 10+ hour transatlantic flight without my parents. As a teenager I was anxious about pretty much everything, so obviously the idea of flying scared the hell out of me. I think I spent at least six months before the flight reading everything I could about plane crashes and aviation safety, and I came out of it feeling so much better. When you really take in all the info, it becomes clear how wildly unusual crashes are, and how it's even rarer for them to have significant fatalities.
Like you, I used to be afraid of flying. One flight, I had an empty seat next to me, and a pilot got on (not the plane's pilot, but he also worked for the airline). Throughout the flight, he explained all the mechanics that kept a plane in flight. Never had an issue since. Knowledge is empowering.
Maintenance: “This component has failed in flight over 10 times, but we can’t find the issue on the ground. Should we just replace the whole assembly?” “Nah, just tell the pilots to keep an eye on it. What’s the worst that could happen?”
It was the simple solution, it was this Pilot aircraft anyway, he should learn about to how predict possible problems, and missgifts..... Real problem was copilot, even if he was more ready as captain, he was used to soviet made plane, and they are build and react diferently.
That's not a maintenance issue. It's the manufacturer's. Imagine knowing a component you sold is randomly failing, it has no redundancy checks, and could kill several people. And still waiting til many people die and there's a report out with your name on it before redesigning it. If instead of telling the maintenance crews to grease it up, if they had partially or completely disabled the ATS while developing and testing a new thrust lever design, this wouldn't have happened. No chance. But all large companies are reckless when it comes to safety, they prefer lawsuits over preventative solutions to existing problems
I really appreciate that you played that alarm for us. I could not think straight as it played for the three or so seconds it did. Can't imagine having to try to get a plane back on course with a dying or dead pilot next to me with that dang noise the entire time. Playing the alarm really puts what that poor First Officer was going through into perspective.
Yes Lisa.... He was overwhelmed by a barrage of information , then confusion as regards the "False Horizon" compounding his understanding of the situation. But I am struggling to accept that three airlines knew this plane had a serious defect in the auto throttle on #1 engine..... I find that Criminally Negligent.
@@patagualianmostly7437unfortunately, autopilot is not legally required to be operating so I can see why it was neglected. You’d think they would label and disable it, however, because that IS legally required.
That alarm woke me from a dead sleep after I spent hours trying to fall asleep due to insomnia. I'll be watching this channel with the volume off and closed captioning on from now on...
i'm honestly surprised and confused that it was designed to behave that way. i'm very sure there's good reason for it, but based on my minimal knowledge i'd think that any alarm should only sound for as long as it needs to in order to prevent overloading the cockpit. i'm really wondering now what condition it needed fulfilled before that alarm would stop.
As Mentour Pilot takes 20 minutes to calmly and clearly go through the scenario unfolding on the flight it's easy to forget how much time was elapsing in reality. 2 minutes in this case; and with so much happening too.
@@SW-kr9flseconds if it’s close to the ground or something but if they’re at cruising altitude 35,000 even an 8K decent would take 3 minutes to get to 11,000. Assuming the planes just dropping instead of coasting or anything like that
Wow.. this insanely unlucky string of coincidences is stunning. First the auto thrust issue with the plane, then the fact that the flight plan involved a left turn which matched the polarity of the auto thrust issue, then the fact that air traffic control cleared the left turn earlier than planned causing the captain to fiddle with nav instead of holding the thrust levers, then the captain is medically incapacitated right at the instant that the plane reaches an altitude that causes the auto thrust system to do work (kicking the auto thrust issue into motion), causes a huge distraction to the co-pilot who has the controls and thinks the plane is stable and focuses for too long on his struggling colleague, and finally when he turns his full attention back to the plane his piloting is stymied by the fact that he's in the clouds and instruments only, and the vast majority of his flight hours were on Soviet built planes that had a different style of artificial horizon. Unbelievable bad luck for all on that plane. Rest in peace.
@@feelthatfeelthat I find it remarkeble how much need to go wrong for a plane to crash, I mean here it is heart attack combined with too much familiarity with Russian build planes and a change in course all at exactly the same couple of seconds, I mean what are the odds of that such incredibly bad luck, it makes me want to fly watching this and I have watched every single episode of aircrash investigation on Netional geographic as well and it makes me happy to fly watching it.
@@feelthatfeelthat Okay you are more likely to be struck by lightning ⚡️ 15 times in 1 year then being in a air crash 💥 You are more likely to be killed in a car accident 100 times in a one year time period. Oh and if you swim in a pool 🏊🏻♀️ you are more likely to drown even if you can swim up to 30 times in one year. All true
I’m a 767 Captain and I learn something from every horrible event you detail very thoroughly. Love this channel even though it’s sad to see what leads up to many of these disasters. Keep up the work you do. It’s valuable information. Footnote. There have been quite a few accidents that you have profiled that concern the differences in the attitude indicators on western built and Russian built aircraft. Thats tragic.
The unique thing with Petter is that he has the ability to explain the accidents in a way so both you, a captain, and I, an artist learn something. From different perspectives, but still. He makes me much less nervous. 😌
Yeah when Russia opened up (temporarily lol) and their airlines began buyong Western jets you suddenly had hundreds or even thousands of pilots who spent their entire life with Soviet artificial horizons having to use the Western style, which look a lot like the opposite (L bank looks like bank to the right) and in an emergency with startle effect plus trying to figure out you tend to revert to instinct and habit. So there's been a bunch of incidents. Most you probably never hear of. Probably just some momentary "holy shit" followed by recovery and a few embarassed looks in the cockpit and an awkward announcement to the cabin with passengers muttering, something like "this is what I get for flying Aeroflot".
When I took A&P classes at Miramar my instructor (a licensed pilot and Vans RV-7 owner) had four rules for flying that he always observed. #1 was to never fly the “A” model, #2 was to never fly anything Russian-built, probably for exactly this reason.
As an aircraft mechanic, the most frustrating thing is not being able to replicate the issue and you’re left trying to decipher what was really going on in relation to the troubleshooting manuals. The troubleshooting manuals will normally go through an operational check and if it works that time, then the system is ok. But when it’s the third time it’s happened in a week, then it’s difficult to decide where to begin.
@@nigelturner9606 we don’t have access to black box, dfdau, and flight recordings during troubleshooting. And most troubleshooting is performed during a 2 day AOG window at max. We can’t be in the cockpit to see or feel what is happening so all we have are our manuals and intuition. If the system checks out ok during our tests then it’s legal to sign it off. Usually when it’s a repeat or chronic issue and cannot determine the cause on the ground, then we will start changing out the most likely suspected LRUs.
@@nigelturner9606 Investigators literally got to the bottom of the problem. A flat spotted roller bearing from the throttle quadrant was found at the bottom of the 30 ft crater. Investigators and Airbus knew exactly what they were looking for. The flat spotted roller was known to Pan Am Maintenance when they operated the very aircraft 5-years earlier but the PIREP was signed off as "lubed." There was an undisclosed settlement with the plaintiffs after the investigation was completed.
The strangest thing for me these plains have a GO even though they are experiencing some critical issues. Sounds very unprofessional to try to replicate the issue during the ground time and if it is not replicated by the technician the action is to simply let the plane fly again. With this kind of issue, no flight should be accepted until it is clear what is the cause. Really shocking!
Also, if the FO is trying to reach over to help the pilot with his left hand while steadying the controls with his right hand, he will maintain his bank angle. Any erratic motion with his left hand will tend to pull the controls left at the exact worst time.
I really appreciate your respect for the loss of life. You don't just talk about a statistic, you show us the memorial, you play music, you give us a moment to mourn because these are people who deserve to be mourned. It's clear this isn't just an academic interest for you; this is a responsibility for lives that you take seriously every time you fly or teach others to fly.
I don’t think you could be a pilot and not appreciate the loss of life. Pilots are aware of how quickly things can go wrong with disastrous outcomes. Flying is a fickle game where minor errors can have life altering and life ending outcomes.
@@mikes-b6009 Flying isn't fickle at all... it's one of, if not, the safest form of commercial transport. You're more like to be killed driving to the shops to get some milk or while catching a train to work. The fact that if there is a malfunction of some type you're in a dire situation is just obvious as you're at the mercy of gravity.. that's not fickle.. that's physics.
@Ali Al-Mahdi I’m a father of two adult daughters who I raised on my own throughout their teens. I was also a health care professional and I find your ‘theory’ of menstruation and blood to be both concerning and I’ll-informed. I’m unable to rationalise how menstruation has anything to do with flying an aircraft!!!!
I feel really sad for the first officer in this case, it seems very likely that his genuine concern for the Captain distracted his attention for just a moment but that was all it took for everything to overwhelm him, it just feels unfair!
This is my 2nd time re-watching this incident and I wanted to bring a special attention to one detail. Before the captain was potentially incapacitated, the first-officer asked the captain to retract the flaps and the captain did. Now, the flap lever is on the right side of the thrust levers. There is no way the captain could have missed the asymmetrical thrust. It's literally in the line of sight. The only reason I can think of is the captain was already feeling what he was feeling at that time with his mind only fixated on the task at hand (retracting the flaps) and not the surroundings, whilst experiencing the pain. A real terrible coincidence of tragedy indeed.
@@Eet0saurusWe'll never know, sadly. In the end, there's a myriad of potential health issues that could have caused it - while not a lot of stuff kills you immediately, pretty much any extremely painful issue can literally cause people to pass out from the pain alone for a few minutes (which would have been enough here). After all, we don't know if he only lost consciousness or died right away. Just horrible that it happened with the worst possible timing :(
My father was good friends with Captain Liviu Batanoiu. We lived pretty close to him in Bucharest. My dad and I were jus discussing this accident last weekend and he mentioned that they had met for a chat a couple days before the accident. My grandpa worked at Bucharest Otopeni International Airport (now Henri Coanda) and back in 1998 he took me to the hangar where the remains of flight 371 were still being stored. I remember getting very emotional just like back in 1995 when the accident happened.
@@neytiritetskahamoatite7688 all airplane crash are stupid, i would not put this on the copilot as much as i would put it on beoing for knowing that they had a problem and did not fix it. There are a lot of things going wrong in this accident.
@@alexandrul.9910 - so you wouldn't blame the airline who bought the plane knowing that it had this problem yet still didn't replace the component? You must be Romanian!!
My parents flew this plane the day before, so me waking up and hearing at TV that this plane had a crash almost gave me a heart attack. There was no internet at that time so news was slower, so I had no idea the crash didn't happen a day before. Terrible tragedy.
What's really insane is that they have all this technology out there that can rectify much of these situations yet there's no SOL threshold where the plane will say "F#@k it, I need to fix it!" and lockout pilot inputs temporarily to rectify to situation. I mean, it should be a no-brainer that a plane should not be going past a certain bank angle or damn near upside down. At that point what's the worst that could happen if the plane takes over?
My best friend's dad was flying the A310s back then for Tarom. My dad was on the B707. They both knew the pilot and co-pilot. It shook them quite a bit.
This video brings up some unpleasant memories as a colleague of mine was on that flight. But it is first time I see a really comprehensive explanation of what happened. Really appreciate that. Thank you.
This is so damn sad, the Captain became incapacitated at the worst possible time. But i guess that's why flight instructors always beat it into students heads to always fly the plane no matter what is happening around you.
Indeed. The mathematical possibility that the incapacitation of the Captain happened at this moment and together with the other circumstances was nearly zero - but not fully zero - and here Murphy´s Law unfortunately stepped in: Everything what can happen will happen. And yes, I still think that the shocking of the FO was at least one reason why he was then unable to fly the plane.
@@NicolaW72 well perhaps not because presumably take off and stress increase chances of a heart attack - so more likely at times of stress - which is when you most need two pilots
@@jamesbirkin351 Still nearly zero, like he said. The increased risk of heart attack would still be well under 1%, but I'll be generous and let you have any medical condition, but you would still be very wrong. A study of16,000 commercial pilots found that the odds of a pilot becoming physically incapacitated on a flight at any time during that year was only 0.25% (exactly 40 pilots had a single episode in a year's time), and that's the chance for a year of flying. Commercial pilots can only fly a maximum of 1,400 hours in a year(edited, I incorrectly wrote 1,000 hrs in my initial post), and they are also checked annually for their health, and pilots are disqualified from flying with serious heart conditions or even diabetes requiring a hyperglycemic drug. So the odds in a years time this would happen to a pilot is nearly zero. Your already incorrect observation becomes a hundred times weaker when you adjust the odds of incapacitation from yearly probability to the probability over the course of a single flight. Therefore, assuming a very generous estimate of only 100 flights/year, the odds are now at 0.0025% of this happening during and given flight, which is very much nearly zero. The point about the pilot being in a stressful situation is not valid because they were climbing and having no major problems when he began to feel ill and it was his sudden incapacitation that set events into motion.
This, to me, is one of the saddest crash scenarios that I've seen. Though most (or all?) crashes have multiple causes or conditions occurring in combination, this one just seems as if events really conspired against the poor first officer. : (
@@zen4men You're right, it's all according to one's divine life plan, isn't it. I usually manage to remember that but sometimes get caught up in drama of events.
@@oneworldawakening I have "met" otherworlds/other beings, and know I have lived before / will again / never die, which does change one's perspective! We are in a World War. A spiritual struggle on a global scale. Orchestrated fear, globally.
@@PsychoKaedeMode You see what you think you see I see what I know I see I have experienced things that most people only read books on. If you see that as "schizo", that says far more about you than it does about me. /
I remember this like it was yesterday. Living in Romania, I was in my first year of highschool, and I remember reading daily newspapers that had full double and quadruple pages dedicated to this accident.
@@raylopez99 It maybe their responsibility, but so much was happening at the same time. Far too simplistic to say it's their responsibility. Even with good training, this appeared to be a rare occurrence, imagine your colleague incapacitated without warning and dealing with a plane losing control. As i said your comment was simplistic.
@@greymark420 Not really. Crazy or incapacitated pilots are rather not uncommon, for example that FedEx flight, the golfer Payne Stewart private jet, that decompression incident with Aegion? from Cyprus (the flight attendant almost became a hero but not quite) and so on.
@@raylopez99 Always easy to make comparisons from an armchair. I work for the emergency services, very well aware how a high stress environment effects an individual. Even with good training, we are not infallible. That's what makes us human.
My dad was working in airport security at that time in Bucharest airport. He told me that he talked with the pilots and the flight crew before they embarked in the plane, they told some jokes, etc. They all seemed fine. He was shocked when he found out about the crash... :| he couldn't believe it.
I am so sorry for his loss ! :( My father was about to fly back to Otopeni that very day, we had heard about a plane crash but didn't know details, so we went in with lots of fear. Only when we saw him coming up smiling did we finally feel relief.
I remember. My aunt woke me up. I knew them, as the chief pilot for the Airbus program at Tarom was a close family friend. I flew with most of them, and flew on Muntenia...I have photos of that plane before the crash. Noroc.
Having flown both Russian as well as Western Fast Jets, I can testify to this problem arising due to different depiction of Artificial Horizon. That is why we are taught to always correlate the Artificial Horizon indications with secondary instrument, ie, the compass and the turn and slip indicator. That form the basis of recovery from unusual attitudes in actual IFR conditions when the visual horizon is not available. Another basic learning is that whenever you're facing an unusual situation, the first action is to level the aircraft and then do your trouble shooting. The Aviate part of Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. Such a sad waste of life. All the more important to never ever forget the basics of flying. Congratulations to you as well as your Patreon crew on this amazing deduction.
@@saraparadis8047 It is a matter of getting used to, but personally, I agree with you. The Russian depiction of Artificial Horizon (AGD, Agda, as they call it) is more intuitive.
@@catherinearangie2311 The plane is moving, but the pilot is moving with it. Relative to the plane-pilot reference frame the horizon will change the angle. The eastern system shows the view from someone outside (behind) the plane who is sitting upright aligned with the horizon. The western system shows the view from inside the cockpit and what the pilot would see if looking out the window.
@@benhetland576 I could agree that anyone would prefer the method that they started out with but in all objectivity there is nothing intuitive about the soviet model. The western model is much more intuitive and makes much more sense because in essence it shows the same image/view as what a pilot would normally see from the cockpit window just in a simplified digital form.
Learning about things like this have made me a lot more tolerant of mistakes made by people elsewhere in life. The same cognitive biases exist outside of the cockpit and have caused people to make some truly tragic mistakes.
I don't know if it has any relevance, yet first officer Stoi was a friend of a friend of my grandfather's. As you mentioned in the video, it was a pretty well-regarded airman, and even entrusted (at least once) with flying Ceaușescu's backup plane in one of his visits abroad. Seeing such a skilful person not being able to gain control of the situation is a grim reminder that even the best of us can succumb to stress and maybe, as you said, certain mental patterns and habits.
@Tiberiu Danciu *Wow, that's quite a rarity that anyone would have piloted Ceausescu's plane! Did your Grandfather get to meet him??!?!* If so what did he think of the man?
@@watershed44 Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the story goes that he flew a backup/logistics plane in the presidential convoy, not Ceaușescu's plane itself. Sadly, he didn't get to meet him, so this is more of a "he said that he said" story. This led myself to believe that it could just be hearsay, so I tried to fact-check the little stuff I knew. Before the Boeing 707 presidential plane was bought, Ceaușescu flew on an Ilyushin Il-18 (YR-IMM, with YR-IMZ also being part of the presidential fleet). Stoi had 6,593 flight hours on the Il-18. He also worked for the TAROM state airline, which for all intents and purposes, operated presidential flights. So I think it's pretty plausible that the story is indeed true. Maybe the aircraft in question was the YR-IMZ. The location was in South America, so this would probably put the date in September 1973 (Also, my grandfather said something about a coup d'etat happening at the time - this checks out with the September 11th, 1973 coup in Chile). At the time, Stoi would have just celebrated his fifth year of being a pilot, so maybe the relative lack of experience is why he didn't get to fly Ceaușescu himself. In 1974, the aforementioned Boeing 707 was bought, and given the fact that Stoi didn't have a type rating for the 707, he probably didn't get another chance at flying a presidential plane. Funnily enough, in researching this, I discovered that captain Bătănoiu did have 5,151 flight hours on the 707 at the time of the incident. Given that TAROM wasn't flying too many western aircraft at the time, it would be worth looking if maybe he got to fly the newer presidential plane.
Nat Geo is mostly crap because they spend 40% of the show covering stuff completely irrelevant to the crash. "Was it a failed engine that caused the crash?!?!" *30 minutes later* no. Pilot error.
@@PigeonPlucker Let me be your cheerleader for saying this. I want to watch a program about the event, maybe a little bit of personal info about key figures and possibly ironic/tragic vignettes related to it, and then the nuts and bolts of the investigation. Don't take me around in pirouettes for an hour just to add enough mattress stuffing to consider your work "a tv program" or "a documentary." Also, if the cause of the crash relates to other similar crashes, then you may add that, too (example: American Airlines Flight 96 (in 1972...all survived), arising from faulty design/incomplete closure of a cargo door on a DC-10, then the issuance of a Service bulletin, then again, Turkish Airlines Flight 981 (in 1974...346 dead)... all because of failure to repair the cargo door problem on their DC-10). One of several acceptable examples of an EXCEPTION to this is South African Airways Flight 295 (which became known as "The Helderberg Disaster"). The program that I saw was SO well done, because it DID focus on more than just the disaster, the investigation and the times, but the political situation at the time, with how apartheid had an effect on what potentially contraband cargo may have been transported on the 747 Combi (Passengers in the front, cargo in the back)... Cheers.
May all of them rest in peace! My father was a Tarom pilot, he made it through retirement but was killed by cancer ten years later, as were many, many more of his colleagues. Aviation is a beautiful and noble profession but exacts a high toll, either before or after you exit the cockpit.
@@maxavail I didn't know there was a correlation between flying and cancer. May your father rest in peace and I hope someday science and technology will find a way to guard or better protect our pilots against this.
I knew of someone that died in this crash, and I was always curious to know more about what happened. Thank you so much for this thorough and enlightening episode. Great work.
Related to the artificial horizon .... indeed, for planes built in the west, the reference position to the horizon is inside the plane and moves with it, while for the Russians it is fixed, placed outside the plane. I'm not a pilot but I have a friend who was a military pilot on MIG 21. I don't know why there are such differences and my friend didn't manage to give me an explanation either. From my point of view, the western approach is more logical because it looks at the horizon through the eyes of the pilot, but in the end it is a matter of habit and routine. And you are certainly right when you say that it is possible that this difference in design and his long experience on Eastern aircraft is one of the causes. I make an analogy with a driver who has driven on the right all his life and ends up driving in a country where he drives on the left. He can drive very well but in a critical situation he is very likely to react instinctively completely the opposite of how he should be in the new condition in which he drives.
Dacă nu ești pilot, de ce îți dai cu părerea atât de critic la adresa piloților? Doar pe motivul ca ai auzit tu la un prieten? Prietene, ești pe dinafară și faci praf niște piloți foarte buni, școliți în academia militară și cu foarte multa experienta. Iti garantez ca dacă avionul ala nu ar fi fost defect l ar fi pilotat cu ochii închiși. Chiar îl crezi pe ăsta ca nu au putut citi orizontul? Pe bune? Scuza ma dar ești dus.
@@uk..bruiser..4046 Hai sa le luam pe rand sa vedem cat de idioata este interventia ta. Am spus ca nu sunt pilot si ca stiu de la un prieten de aceasta diferenta de abordare intre vest si est. Ce este critic si ce este neadevarat aici? Am mai spus ca nu stiu si nici prietenul meu nu stie explicatia dar este o diferenta in modul in care este perceputa relatia dintre pilot si aparat intre conceptia vestica si cea estica. Nu am incercat sa ma dau mare sa arunc ipoteze, am spus clar ca nu stiu de ce, dar fie ca iti place sau nu, aceasta diferenta exista. Cand am spus ca eu prefer abordarea vestica nu am afirmat ca ar fi mai buna sau mai proasta decat cea estica, am spus doar o preferinta personala. Unde este aici critica si cu ce am facut prin asta praf pilotii scoliti in academia militara? Am mai spus ca un om obisnuit cu un anumit mod de reactie, cand trece pe alt sistem oricat de bun este in situatii critice poate sa reactioneze in modul in care a fost obisnuit ani de zile si am dat ca exemplu un sofer care ani de zile a condus pe stanga, pus sa conduca pe dreapta. Este un fapt normal, se poate intampla oricui oricat de bine este pregatit. Unde este aici critica si cu ce am facut praf generatii de piloti? Asa ca inca odata afirm, amice, tu esti praf si comentator doar de dragul comentariului fara sa argumentezi cu nimic decat cu ura ca cineva indrazneste sa aiba o opinie.
This is my first viewing. For a non pilot ( and let's face it, most of us are here but we really want to understand as best we can everything going on ) I really appreciate all the angles that Mentour is giving us, technical and human . Won over sir !
Under stress we revert to the oldest and most primitive learning and instincts that we have. I compare this to braking on ice and how we can see how it is not working and yet we instantly push harder locking the BRAKES. That only makes it worse. I love this episode! Thank you MP!
I absolutely love the way you tell the story and explain everything in a technical way but still manage to make it very clear. It's a talent in itself.
The wife of a good friend of mine was supposed to be onboard but she canceled her flight the day before. The memory of this still lingers around. Thank you for explaining it so well.
This is nightmare fuel. I was almost 12 when this happened and it was the first aircrash I've ever heard about. Or maybe it just stuck to me because I am Romanian and this felt close. It probably played a major role in my ongoing fear of flying. Condoleances to the families affected, I cannot imagine what the passengers went through :( This disaster seems caused by exactly the same kind of issue the 737 Max had. Ofcourse, technically, it's completely different. But corruption and greed (of the airplane manufacturers - AIRBUS, BOEING, of the airlines too) can cause such major tragedies. Airbus knew there was a potentially fatal flaw and did nothing about? Delta and Tarom knew about and still flew like nothing was going on? Every executive involved in trading that airplane or in deciding that it should have been allowed to fly should be IN JAIL with a LIFE SENTENCE. Technicians who haven't sounded the alarm too. Companies involved should be bankrupt.
Family of mine sailed around the world and returned safely after 8 years. Their motto was it only takes 3 factors to lead to a potential shipwreck. This made them very conservative when it came to fixing any single problem. It's worth remembering that in any undertaking. I particularly appreciate MP's respect for those who died - silence, cut to the grave in silence. It gives one a moment to pay respect. Thank you!
This brings chills down my spine, because I was supposed to be on the flight but didn’t make it... one of those nine lives surely gone that day... Great analysis, as usual. Never thought about the potential confusion coming from the soviet attitude indicator. Kudos to Dmitri for spotting that out, it can explained the lack of stick correction.
So what was the reason back then for you not to embark on that flight? (Edited 21 hours later - after asking the question) Personally, i know somebody who was suppose to be on that flight as well, couldn't get a straight answer for him losing the flight. There were a few other persons who stated they were suppose to be on that flight, on different comment sources (youtube, personal vlogs, articles etc) who never answered my question "what was the reason for not embarking?"
The biggest thing I'm taking away from this series of yours is just how many things have to go wrong for an accident to happen. If just a single part of these things did not happen, everything would've been fine.
That's very true but it's less often that the timing makes such a big impact. They turned early, causing a masking of the symptom and at the same time the pilot becomes incapacitated. That's incredibly bad luck.
So true. Pretty much all of the major air crashes that I can think of have consisted of a chain of cascading events which end in disaster. Thankfully, the chances of so many things going wrong at the same time are exceedingly rare.
I am a retired BA pilot, John Chapman. My history is: Copilot on Vickers Vanguard; Copilot, Flight Engineer and Captain on Lockheed Tristars; Captain on Avro 748; and last 10 years as Captain on Boeing 747-400. I have not flown an Airbus. My comment on this accident is that the Captain should not have been fiddling with the FMC at such a low altitude and immediately after takeoff. The correct action, in my opinion, upon receiving the ATC instruction for the early left turn, was for the Captain to press Heading mode and turn the Heading pointer towards the target fix, an action of 2 or 3 seconds, and to continue to monitor the flight and to keep a lookout, especially upwards and to the left, in the direction of the turn. Plenty of time once the turn is complete to fiddle with the FMC! I am perhaps 'old school', but the fundamental function of the pilot(s) must always be to FLY THE AIRCRAFT!
I am not a pilot. But I'm with you. Re entering code to a computer is not something I would do whilst driving a car let alone flying an aircraft Also. Isn't that computer right next to the thrust lever. So he was actually looking right there? The more of these I watch the more I'm thinking the Auto Pilot is actually inside the pilots head and when something out of the ordinary happens it's down to the pilots ability to re engage his internal manual pilot. Also came to mind that a 3rd officer or flight engineer would have been monitoring engines. This being back in the days when 2 person cockpits where still quite new.
Good to hear that there are still old school pilots in those big airplanes. From some accidents I get the feeling that some pilots are little too reluctant to switch off the autopilot when there is something strange going on and their situation awareness is questionable, while others fly the plane perfectly. I remember the record of stick position in Tu-154 Smolensk tragic accident showing that after the plane stalled few feet over the ground and flips upside down, PIC pushes like he is going to fly the plane inverted. Best possible action, but I believe it must be completely instinctive (I know many aerobatic beginners tend to do the opposite) and this instinct was probably gained from his aerobatic training. Not sure how this is common among non-army pilots.
I too thought it would have been easier and faster to adjust the heading rather than mess with the FMC. If it was even possible on this particular aircraft
There are just two aviation channels that I LOVE. Your channel and Kelsey’ s. As a life long aviation enthusiast and a “grounded” private pilot, I can express my thanks to both of you. I love learning about safety, systems and aircraft in general. Be well
Wow - what a catastrophic set of coincidences. The fact they were initiating a left turn as the thrust changed in a way that was consistent with the effects if making a turn, and the Captain apparently experiencing a health event as the same time. Kind of ridiculous that the autothrottle malfunction was well known and left for pilots to deal with. Excellent analysis of the potential for artificial horizon instrumentation being the most critical factor.
@@JudeLawKingKlaus the Pilot, in the left hand seat, was the one watching the throttles and handling all the other inputs required, as the Copilot was the one who was actually hands on, flying the aircraft. The pilot had to take his attention off the throttle levers in order to enter the changes required to make an early turn, so he did not see the left hand lever continue to move lower, nor see the right hand lever stuck. And by the time the call for flaps happened, it seems the pilot had had what I can only assume is a heart attack, thus completely distracting the copilot from anything else going on to the aircraft. Unfortunately, the cabin crew and the passengers, having nothing to distract them, would have noticed rather quickly that something was very wrong, but with neither the time or ability to do anything about it. As for the throttle difference, yea, eventually they would have noticed the results, but from what I can tell, the right engine was at climb setting, call it 90%, and the left engine was probably around 70% or so? That is based on what I assume are the thrust dials shown a few times, and where the indicators were pointing. Also, a change is much harder to notice when it is happening slowly, than when it is happening rapidly.
@@JudeLawKingKlaus No no no, you don't "feel". Pilots have said they are instructed to ignore the body feel because it's misleading them and they die if they do that, they have to follow their cabin instruments, they rely on them. Due to the weather they could not see outside the windows, they had no feeling in the human body if they were going up/down, you could be falling and think you are going up - in the airplane, if you don't see anything. Expecially when the entire flight took 1min30 and previously they thought everything was ok, then everything didn't make sense. This after being given a defective airplane to fly + told to take a left turn earlier than they were indending to. Even with the captain pilot still alive this would have been from bad do still a catastrophe.
The captain had a heart attack. The timing of all events seems “perfect” for this disaster to occur. Of cause, no postmortem can be done, but based on all of the events, this seems to be the most likely scenario. Poor people… :(
The sudden incapacitation suggests a cerebral vascular problem - a serious stroke. It could go either way, though. Blockage of the circumflex artery stops the heart very rapidly.
@@FreedomIsNotGoingToBeFree he looked down to adjust the flaps, saw the left thrust lever was like 10 degrees off from the right, and several organs just went “ah. No” simultaneously.
This is mind blowing. Those things will never cause a crash on their own, but a combination of them and you're in big trouble. I'm a drone pilot, shooting for my advanced Canadian license. We are expected to know a lot about aviation and that's where your videos really help. Thanks for doing them.
26:05 The Western artificial horizon is showing a RIGHT bank while the Soviet is showing a LEFT bank. I can see why he might have thought that the plane was level, but the angle between the background and the aircraft symbol should be the same in both versions.
I'm a bit confused why he made such a glaring mistake in the video. Having no experience in flying I found that section super confusing because the western meter visually made no sense to me. But I'm glad my instincts are right. I hope he fixes this
It took me a couple of minutes being dazzled at the instruments as I contemplated what the co-pilot may have been experiencing - then I resolved that confusion by realizing that the left AH indicator was a right bank as you stated .
I noticed this as well, as a non-pilot. Strange mistake to make by a pro while explaining the possible misinterpretation of the instrument. Or are we all mistaken? I'm confused.
@@viggotannhauser7251 We are right. A quick Google search proves that. The strange thing is that not many people noticed this in the comments. And certainly Mentor himself hasn't responded to the error.
@Gary Hochstetler Having an entry in the tech logbook isn’t unusual and doesn’t qualify the aircraft to be defective. But am just a private pilot thus mindful it might be different on commercial planes
@Gary Hochstetler In the video it is said that every time they reported it, the airvraft was brought in for repaors and they followed the recommendations from Airbus, that is lubricating the parts and changing the bearings. However, it looks like the problem would occur nevertheless. What else could they do ? They changed the entire part. They knew they weren't more knowledgeable than Airbus, so they followed what they said
@Gary Hochstetler - The report seemed to leave out a critical cause of the crash which was, once again, a failure in an aircraft's automation initiated this whole sequence of events. Tasks pilots used to do are now automated and what used to be muscle memory is now lost. This crash would never have happened with a pilot moving those levers. A human brain would have immediately recognized a lever was sticking and compensated for it. A computer can only do what it's programmed to do, it doesn't have the capacity to think. So the engineers foolishly told the computer to keep pulling back on both levers until they both were at climb out power never even considering the possibility that they could go asymmetric. This was a disaster waiting to happen. How do I know the engineers didn't consider the problem, I don't, but if you think about it why would you not monitor position sensors on the thrust levers and monitor other engine sensors to determine if you were going into asymmetric thrust and stop pulling on the dang thrust levers _and_ alert the pilots of the condition? There's two possibilities, 1) management overruled you do to TTM excuses, Boeing, or 2) you didn't think of it, Airbus.
When I was in pilot training I had to practice accelerated stalls which always scared me, probably why my instructor made me do them so often. Once they start you need to act quickly. This video reminded me of those times. Thanks
Very sad to see that Captain was incapacitated and F/O didn't know what to do and calling his Captain. It's also very frightening that all passengers are screaming before crashed. It is the most deadly plane crash :( RIP to all on board who died :(
Susie Q I know it's not the world's deadliest accident in the world. But thanks for the Country name. Because I don't know which country it crashed. Thanks for that :)
Actually, the FO knew what to do, but unlike today's airlines where a pilot could fly 4 sectors with 4 different colleagues, at that time TAROM had 3 A310 aircrafts and not many pilots typerated for them, so, most likely, more than half of the FO's experience was acquired while flying alongside that captain. That man watched his best friend dying, and even if it was wrong, it was at least understandable for him to be a bit more concerned than in other cases.
18:22 THE MEMORIAL OF THE VICTIMS OF BALOTESTI At 31 march 1995 , at 08:08, the flight Tarom RO371 going to Brussels, with a plane Airbus A310-324, registered YR-LCC "Muntenia" crashed in the vicinity of this place. 60 people with different nationalities lost their lives in what was then the biggest aeronautic catastrophe in Romania. The monument situated at the end of the alley was build in the memory of those who died then, and was renovated by volunteers in 2017. Please keep the place clean.
As a person who has never flown an airplane, the Soviet artificial horizon makes slightly more sense to me, since it is, in fact, the airplane that tilts. But as you pointed out, it’s a matter of what you get used to. Thanks for this excellent video.
I think the opposite. The western system mimics where the horizon actually is. Superimpose the attitude indicator with the horizon and they are the same. It's like x-ray vision through the clouds or night and seeing where the horizon actually is. Same as heads up displays for fighter pilots.
The western one is more of a first person indicator, rather than a third person. Being inside the plane, and not behind it, the western one seems to make more sense.
@@kingsleykronkk3925 I agree with you. But conversely, I've always thought that the Soviets got it right with 'cosmonaut' and we got stuck with the not-exactly-accurate and inherently limiting 'astronaut', lol.
I was in highschool when this happened. I remember firefighters and policemen so devastated by what they saw at the crash site that were unable to speak coherently in front of the news cameras, some barely holding their tears. Years later in my residency I had the chance to talk to one of the first responders who came in as a patient, he still had nightmares about the event and I was shocked by his description (I won't go into the gruesome details, as there may be kids reading these comments). I'm glad you covered this accident with your usual professionalism and attention to detail, the official investigation was kinda hushed up and the following public statements were rather brief and unsatisfactory. Many people felt a political cover-up, possibly regarding financial issues with the state hold airline, as less than an year prior to the accident there were some controversies about the acquisition and maintenance of those Airbus planes.
It's good for us to be reminded that first responders can be so traumatized by the terrible things they encounter. We owe them all the help we can give to deal with those traumas.
Further to my comments of 1 year ago, I would like to add the following: Excellent point raised by Mentour Pilot: The F/O had in the region of 9,000 hours of which approximately 95% was on Soviet made hardware. And then he pointed out the anomaly between the A/H on Western airliners versus Soviet airliners. I am unsure if this situation has been changed to 'one-standard' only, or if they still persist in having totally dissimilar readouts on major blind flying instruments! I would like to know what the 2023 status is? Further to that I would like to know what updates were made in crew training following the accident? I remember at the tail-end of my career being invited to take part in a two ship delivery, from S. Africa to Minsk 1, Ukraine. An ex RAF chum and I went out and flew in the left seats as PIC for the simple reason the Soviet crew did not have international pilot licences. I remember quite vividly, trying to do something as simple as read the instruments. This was on CAVOK days. Another case occurred in north-west Brazil in IFR conditions when the ATC guy was speaking to us in Portugese, and my copilot and I only shared English, Spanish and French. Suffice to say the ATC put us onto the ILS in cloud 30-seconds in front of landing traffic - we all survived of course. But given the International Language of aviation is ENGLISH, one wonders why such poor interpretation of the rules needs a major catastrophe before the rules are changed! For today's young people thinking of joining the aloft-family, may i suggest you make a start as a glider pilot before embracing powered flight, and perhaps go on an instructors' course. Plenty of hands on experience and theoretical depth in all associated subjects could save your neck at some future disputed barricade . . . Excellent analysis from Mentour Pilot, we would have been proud to have had you as part of our crew in the old days . . .
This is a fantastic series! Though I am not a pilot, I am an Ergonomics Engineer and Human Factors Engineer. I did take ground school while in high school as a for-credit class a long while ago. I watch this series to hone my root cause analysis skills. Root cause analysis is a large part of creating design parameters for individual projects in ergonomics and human factors engineering. I am also preparing for chiropractic college. Root cause analysis is a major part of what chiropractic physicians do as primary care physicians. I am melding the two fields. Thus, I am very busy, but use my organizational time, filing paperwork, etc. to watch/listen to these videos. Thank you!
So interesting the way you explain what happened but so very sad to understand what they must have been through in the few minutes of this flight. R.I.P. to the crew and passengers that lost their lives so tragically.
@@MentourPilot I don't exactly understand something. It is a theory that he interpreted the horizon the opposite way, and it seems like it is an unsolved mystery. But why there isn't an answer to this in the recorded flight data that he turned into the wrong side?
I have actually watched a feature (Discovery, I guess) documentary about this flight and they inserted audio records, including the sounds made by the captain and the last few seconds of the flight (the terrified scream of the FO upon coming out of fog a few hundred meters above the impact site). Also, in that documentary they touched on the difference between western and soviet dials, so Dimitri might've watched it too.
My father was there when it happened, he was being a soldier at that time, At Otopeni (Bucharest, a few kilos away). What he saw that day he will never forget. R.i.P. to all the victims.
It's impossible to describe how all-encompassing the disorientation is when you lose your visual horizon. Basically, you can only appreciate the complete loss of control if you experience it yourself.
I understand how busy the FO was when the captain became incapacitated, but I kept wondering why there wasn't a quick call for a cabin crewmember to come to the cockpit, since the are normally trained for at least basic first aid. It might have helped the FO concentrate on flying.
@@MAXIMUSMINIMALIST It didn't sound like there was one on this flight. Probably due to it being a smaller plane with fewer passengers maybe? If there had been one, they certainly would have stepped in, so it is pretty safe to assume there wasn't one.
Once the mind starts to panic, which probably would have happened once the pilot became incapacitated and the realization that he was responsible for flying this plane that he wasn't familiar enough with, that also was malfunctioning, it is very hard to think clearly or do anything other than focus on the panic. And the main cause of that panic is the pilot not being able to fly the plane. I imagine the FO wanted nothing more than for the pilot to take over, so that is where his tunnel vision probably was (when people panic, they tend to hyperfocus as well). There were a lot of factors at play here that this FO simply wasn't equipped to handle. I don't think many but the most experienced, veteran fliers, would be well equipped to handle them.
It took me a couple of minutes being dazzled at the instruments as I contemplated what the co-pilot may have been experiencing - then I resolved that confusion by realizing that the left AH indicator was a right bank as you stated .
As a non-pilot, I enjoy your presentations because they are so clear and easy to follow. After watching quite a number of yours and other presentations on flight mishaps, it is clear to me that the number one attribute of all members of a flight crew is situational awareness at all times. Now....I'm very curious to know and see some of the new training procedures being used as well as ways that potential flight crew candidates are accurately evaluated for their abilities to think under pressure.
That's kinda silly. Try paying attention to how much detail he can tell these stories in. That's because of the details we can collect from these events to make flights safer. You'll notice a lot of these accidents are older, and major industry changes are made after almost every incident. I don't know, watching these incidents and the changes made after, makes me feel a lot safer. Also the millions of flights per a incident, means flying is safer than most things you do daily. Flying is a million times safer than driving. 1 in 101 chances of dying in a car collision, vs 1 in 3650000 of dying in a plane wreck.
I remember many years ago when I first got interested in aviation accidents the crash investigator said something that has always stuck with me and it was that the pilots job first and foremost was to fly the aircraft and unfortunately so many accidents happen because the pilot forgets that and gets distracted, if the first officer had followed that principle then this could have been averted but he got distracted with what happened to the captain , thoroughly enjoyed your post and looking forward to the next one
Flying while trying to figure out whether the ill pilot caused a configuration change is not practiced in training. This extreme coincidence occupied a massive percentage of brain capacity trying to see if his hands or feet were affecting any controls….
@@jeffstillwell6802 No button or switch to hit which would completely take all control over by the copilot no matter what (on his side) the pilot was touching?
@@Maxfli82 He also doesn't treat us like we're idiots. I like that he uses technical information and more complicated language than the "accessible" TV shows. To me, the only thing I miss about those shows is the interviews with the people involved.
Like seconds from disaster or air crash investigation, but straight to the point, the survivor interviews are interesting sometimes, but all the re-enactments with bad actors are terrible.
I was a student pilot years ago. Life happens, so I never finished my training. With that said, your content is great. I can't get enough of your videos. Thank you again.
As a Romanian I remember hearing of this back in the day and I've always wondered what happened. We don't have so many serious air accidents so this was and still is one of the most memorable.
Many years ago, while flying night freight in an aerocommandor 500. While turning to a new heading, the autopilot circuit breaker tripped. I had just departed the airport under IFR conditions. The external sounds drew my attention back to the instrument panel. The aircraft was in an a 60 degree bank with a 30 degree nose down attitude, with no outside visual reference. It took unbelievable decipline to ignore my sensations while recovering to straight and level flight.
Wait, when the aircraft banks to 60 degrees, nose down 30º, cant you feel it? Like, how you usually feel a banking as passenger? Cant you feel the movement and how gravity isnt keeping you on your seat?
@@glockmat no you can't feel it. There are so many factors involved, whether you're climbing or descending rolling or descending and rolling. You can be flying down to the ground but if you are also pulling back on the elevator you're going to feel a pressure on your senses like you're actually climbing
I think the captain might have been partially incapacitated earlier on, changing the FMC to go direct to a fix already in the flight plan is very simple, It's about 3 button presses and should go very quickly if I'm correct. If the captain was starting to get incapacitated at this time he might have problems with it and it would take longer. (stroke or similar) This would also explain the lower perceptive and cognitive functions required to remember and notice the differential thrust. Just some thoughts
Could certainly be. I tend to think it was a heart attack… usually there’s a minute or two of mounting pain or disorientation that you can ignore at first, but slowly degrades you until the real, sudden shock hits. What happens then is highly variable, but it’s completely possible to grunt once and fall over, unconscious.
@@obitouchiha4739 isn’t the module like right next to the thrust? My question is how can you not see it even if you are working on that different system, I feel like peripheral would catch it easy. Just a thought, I have zero experience so just if anyone has an answer please let me know.
@@Aquasliph That was exactly the point of OP's comment: that if the captain was already starting to become incapacitated because of, say, a beginning stroke (but before it _really_ hits) when he was working on the navigation system, that might help to explain why he didn't notice the position of the thrust levers.
New subscriber here! I’ve gotten down the rabbit hole of aviation stories lately and have binge-watched countless videos like yours. But I’m really impressed at how well-made your video and I can truly feel your passion for aviation just by hearing you talk! Thanks for making these videos, can’t wait to see more :)
My Brother should have been on this flight to Brussel, but a last minute call, made him to cancel his ticket. After the plane was anounced as crashed in Balotesti my Brother and us, realised what a lucky coincidence it was to get that call that made him cancel that flight to Brussel. Anyway,it was a verry sad incident that shouldn't happen. R.I.P. to the one's that died on the crash. Thank you @MENTOUR PILOT for the great content's of youre video's.
reason it takes a year or two to write up these MoT reports is that the experts would like to firmly know how this can teach the flying public how to be safer persons in the aviation community, such as technical and service improvements.
I always wonderee about these things. There is a very real possibility thins crash would never have happened had he got on that flight. Events would have occured differently at the airport due to luggage and weight calculation, delays etc. The pilot may have been crook before or after or not at all. A butterfly in America could technically cause a tsunami in Japan if it were to make one single change.
@@michaelthompson9548 Exactly. Accidents take so many unlikely factors to occur, it's possible that a seemingly trivial change might have made the difference that would prevent it from happening at all. (For example, if the plane had been held up for a minute or two by a passenger slow to board, the captain might have suffered his heart attack before the takeoff roll.) We will never know.
This is a rare case where I must take exception to something in Mentour Pilot's presentation: First point: In the all-important Western/Soviet comparison at 26:04, the left-side graphic is simply wrong. The left-side circle needs to be tilted in the clockwise direction, not in the counterclockwise direction; only then would it match what is shown for the right-side (Soviet-style) graphic. (@WJS points this out too, noting that the tilt is shown correctly in the screen shots of the simulator, e.g. at 24:15].) Second point: With the graphics for 26:04 corrected, we would see that the Western and Soviet versions of an artificial horizon are only subtly different, not different in the sense of 'opposites.' (In fact, they are really the same: Draw them on a piece of paper, cut one out and rotate it until it aligns with the other: then you'll see that the two pictures are identical; it's just that one is rotated relative to the other.) Therefore, the idea that the FO probably tried to do the 'opposite' of what was needed, because he, in his understandable panic, reverted to the Soviet design, simply doesn't work. For either of the two conventions, Western or Soviet, the picture's message about "how to fix the aircraft's situation" is the same. Side issue: @Lisa Schuster, I agree, the Soviet design makes more sense. In response to her, several remarked that the Western design seems more 'intuitive'. What those people advocate, apparently, is for the pilot to enjoy a ME-ME-ME viewpoint. That's ludicrous. What matters is how the aircraft is oriented relative to the ground, not "How the tilted horizon out there looks to ME" or, in clouds, "How the tilted horizon would look to ME."
I've seen other videos about this accident, but this is the best one by far. I learned so many new details. As soon as you mentioned the co-pilot's experience in the beginning of the video, I thought about the attitude indicator differences. When you got to Chapter 9, it started sounding vaguely familiar but I could not remember which accident. But thanks to your thorough approach, I got my answer - I was indeed thinking about that Crossair crash. Shoutout to your awesome Patreon for giving you that piece of the puzzle. Another great video. I really appreciate your factual, non-sensationalized approach. It's very respectful to the crew, passengers, and families left behind.
At 26:05, western attitude indicator actually shows 53 degree RIGHT bank angle, as opposed to the description in the video. The differences between Western and Soviet built PFDs You describe are correct, however, the graphics is wrong. It's still possible that your theory about copilot's confusion is correct, though. Despite that, very great video! Keep up the good work.
Yup... doesn't matter whether the horizon moves or the little plane moves, they would look the same relative to each other on either bank... could be that the pilot was confused, but this explanation is not quite correct.
I remember this very well. This flight went down the day before I went to India for the first time. The day after the incident on 1st April, I flew to New DelhiI on a Tarom flight, via Bucharest. It was supposed to be a standard 3 or 4 hour transit at Bucharest. When we got to Bucharest, we learnt that all flights were grounded and we were to stay in a hotel overnight in the city. It was upsetting knowing that we flying with aircrew who has lost friends and colleagues the day before.
@@MentourPilot Nice. Didn't know this kind of training was a thing. Do you train cases when a pilot lands on the yoke and pushes it forward or backwards? Ho would you handle that?
Not sure how to feel about that. What if in the simulator one of the pilots becomes incapacitated for real? Then the help for the incapacitated pilot is delayed without necessity.
I imagine that the possibility of it happening for real at the exact same moment that the crew commands it through the headset is miniscule. If someone acts dead without being asked to the people behind the scenes will probably act upon it soon enough as they know they didn't command it.
Mentor, there is another person that does an excellent job on animation of aircraft accidents but he lacks a real airline pilot with a wealth of knowledge as yourself. How you explain these accidents is just fantastic!! Thank you very much!
I have been on a binge lately, watching your videos nonstop. I’m a mechanic in a regional in the US and find myself enjoying your attention to detail in your videos. Thank you for all the time you have vested into these.
I will not admit I binge watch your videos. Maybe I do or maybe I do. One thing is certain. A person turning their passion into a valuable, err priceless community has been accomplished here. You are such a brilliant and competent man. Your ability to teach, speak, explain, and mentor is top notch…and you can fly CA? Mind blowing. This is what happens when passion and skill are perfectly aligned. Millions gather.
I will always remember this - My father was flying back to Otopeni that very day and we went to pick him up. We had heard about a plane crash but didn't know details (departing or arriving), so we went in with lots of fear. Only when we saw him coming up on the corridor did we finally feel relief.
Definitely earned my subscription. I’m an aviation buff. Retired from the Firefighter/Paramedic. I always had an internet in aviation incidents. Mainly because of the chain of errors that have to occur for a crash to occur. The take away for me is everything is important. Everything matters and when things go bad they go bad quickly.
Hi, i have just watched two of your videos dealing with engine problems at what is a very early point of the flights. These were both informative and although dealing with complex problems in both instances. I was more than surprised that nobody from the passengers involved made mention as to what the saw. I find this to be a more than common outcome, i think because the general feeling that the pilot knows everything regardless of weather or not ne does. I live in Australia, and having spent a month visiting family in the U.K, was now on my way home to Australia Perth. I was flying with Singapore airlines on a 747, as we sat at the gate while everyone got on the plane and the cargo was still being loaded i noticed that this flight was a completely full to the brim in every sence of the word.Looking around me i realized that every seat was taken and sitting in thecsecond seat in from the window, i did not have to do very much to be able to watch the cargo being put on board, this was still going on even after all passengers were on board, so heavy was an understatement. The loading complete we got pushed back and then spent a long time it seemed going for what looked like a guided tour of Heathro. When we got to the entry to the runway, clearly the flight crew we told to hold, and things must have been a little busy on tevflight deck because i noticed that the plane had gone wide at the turn proir to stopping, to allow a plane in front of us went down the runway. Weather or not something came off the plane tnat had just taken off, or we picked something up that was right on the edge of the runway. However, we turned onto the runway, stopped and went to full sngine power and let go of the brakes, as we got very very close to unstick speed there was a very slight bump, but i could see through the full flaps and was looking at part of the undercarriage when this bump happened and what i saw was a very bright flash just as the plane left the ground. The young lady sitting right along side the window, it wa the first time she had been on a plane and she was clearly rather frightened at just flying, she also saw the flash with a very whitened face asking me did you see that, I asured her i had, and weather or not what ever it was we picked up had freed itself and been thrown into the wheel bay and cut wiring, i dont know. However, the plane contiued to climb the flaps were slowly being retracted and the gear was pulled up, so what ever had happened, it seemed was not a problem and we were on our way home with one stop at Singapore then on to Perth Western Australia. I did call one of the cabin crew, trying very much to keep my voice down so as not to frighten tbe young lady who had clearly had enough surprised for one day. They asked me to go with them to the galley were i could talk freely and I told them what i saw and weather or not i could say for certain just what it was, i explained that we had come very close to the left actually leaving the tarmac, and it seemed we had picked up something from the ground, that had slowly embeded itself into the tyre, and that tbe flash had come from what looked like the wheel well, this was related to the flight deck, but we continued to carry on the flight to Singapore. On arrival at Singapore i saw something that beggered belief, the pilot, clearly talking to the control tower there exstended the flaps to fully down and with nose up flew the slowest i have seen for a plane that size, we flew round three times while clearly someone was filming from the tower, then tgevpassengers were told that the left undercarriage had exploded a tyre and that there were damaged items in the wheel well, so would we kindly go to a brace position while they landed, they did a perfect landing which at the very last minute became a little rough, it turned out that the damage was such that they had to ground that plane so e all left via a set of stairs bought out to the plane to buses to take us to the airport building. I did stop on my way down to have a look at what had happened. The wheel bogie had been covered with a tarp but was not pulled over enough to stop people intent on seeing, just what had happened, the outer tyre was non existent, there were scares on the suspension ram where bits of metal had hit it, plus damage to the other tyre. Something i will never forget, because i had in fact been useful for a change. I think the young lady had been put off flying for quite a while after that and nobody was quicker at getting down those stairs as she was!!!!!
I am not other than a casual FS2020 pilot and I always have had interpretation difficulties with the virtual horizon instrument and as you brought this item that it is different in Russian airplanes I immediately understood what the airplane was by looking to the VH(Russian way). So this should be in all training a very important point when a pilot with Russian system experience to turn over the brain to the other situation! BTW excellent explanations about these accidents. Even better than the very detailed documentaries of Geographic Channel! There might be this other thing in the cockpit where the copilot(now being 1st officer) does not dare to correct the captain's responsibilities and did not look after the throttle, because this was clearly put into the hands of the captain.
Awesome as always. I’m not a pilot but a year ago or so I was bored and RUclips looking for something to watch and came across the story of how Doug White landed the plane he and his family were on. It was such an interesting story that I began to look for aviation videos and the ones I watched at first didn’t go into much detail so I would feel like I didn’t have closure like you on this video I just watched. Eventually I came across a video of yours and I’ve been a big fan ever since! You are so good at breaking things down and explaining the parts of the story that we need so we can follow it better. I love all of your content but my favorite aviation stories are the ones that have a happy ending and everyone survives. Like Scully landing in the Hudson River and the gentleman that lost all engines when they flew over the volcano and flew longer than anyone ever has without any engines and did it with a safe landing. I know you have good stories on here and I’d love to see more of those of you can find any. I’ve learned so much by watching you that I feel like I can fly a plane right now….😬✈️
The first 1000 people to use this link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/mentourpilot04211
are you swedish?
i want to ask is it possible a pilot flying to monitor the main display,the throttle levers,the flaps and landing gear from time to time from take off to 10 000ft at least...i seems to be possible to look for a second fot the problematic thrust levers at least...i used to drive very old and broken cars a lot and when you drive broken machine you FOCUS on the problematic component...why the FO didnt look at the levers...why he never tryied to counter the bank angle...what was he doing?man i am angry...this is not supposed to happen...r.i.p.
Great video, but just a couple of questions seem unanswered. Why was there not a bank angle warning? Was that considered lower priority than the auto pilot disconnect warning also? And did the first officer actually put in any control inputs at all to try correct the situation other than the one which deactivated the auto pilot? Do we even know what those inputs were?
Please make a video about PAN AM and KLM flight incident on the runway
Your left eyelid droops? Didn't notice this before.
That poor FO. His world was going insane nothing made sense and everything he did had the opposite effect from his intention. Alarms were blasting, his captain was dying and he couldn't even see where he was going. The panic and fear must have been horrendous. I hope that his family didn't have to put up with people blaming him for the crash. I hope he is flying in friendlier skies now.
That´s straight on the point. As an armchair pilot, sitting safe and dry in your home, you can easily state: aviate, navigate, communicate - but in his reality he had no chance. It was beyond his possibility to aviate the plane. I share your hopes deeply. RIP.
@@NicolaW72 The living can still learn from A-N-C. The 1st officer seems to have been put in an extremely unfortunate *series* of events that overwhelmed his ability to cope. It might save some lives, for those who come after, to remember that your colleague's medical emergency can only improve if you fly the airplane and get it back on the ground.
i still would like to know what his inputs were on the flight controls, if any. I feel like this part has been left out.
@@Nebbia_affaraccimiei It is explained in the video that he was steering his yoke to the right in an attempt to fix the roll, in fact that is the reason autopilot hasn't engaged. I think he wasn't familiar enough with Airbus's autopilot system, given the fact that most of his experience was on Ilyushins.
Usually panic is greatest, when you can't do anything and the development is slow. This was fairly quick, much quicker that it takes to tell the story.
I’m from Romania and this accident was all over media but never got a better explanation of what has happened as in this video. Great episode! Thank you
Best explanation ever!
He is a trainer, backseat check pilot observing safety and service at times, and also is experienced in ensuring pilots given general licenses for his type of plane actually know how to fly it.
Mayday Air Crash Investigation do ofer the same explanations aside from the F/O training on Soviet type aircraft with different artificial horisons.
Government: ITS ALL FINE DONT WORRY
@@brav0wing but that is the really brilliant insight
Cristian Stoi, the son of the FO of Tarom 371 that crashed near Bucharest, is now a pilot (captain) for Tarom. Cristian decided to become a pilot after his father crashed with ROT 371.
Really??
Ive always thought these things are weird.. If my mom drowned in a ship that sank, i sure as hell would not go anywhere near ships..
@@jennaeveliina313 Same, but perhaps some people feel like they should follow in the footsteps of their parents or take over their work in order to honour them. Take over the family business, so to speak.
@@jennaeveliina313its not weird. It makes perfect sense.
you're afraid. Some people can overcome theirs.
@@a.nobodys.nobodyyes it could be the only way to slay your demons
I'm 42 years old and living a hemisphere away from my birth city. Needless to say, I have to fly lots. Problem is I've spent my life with a terrible fear of flying that makes this incredibly challenging. I have to take a horse dose of sedatives to do it and often that isn't even enough to stop my serious anxiety.
Been binging your videos for last couple of months. And its been the single best thing for my anxiety. I had occasion to fly again for first time in years last month, and I was mostly fine.
Your videos helped me because...
1. I now understand how many things have to go wrong for a serious crash to occur. It's nearly always multiple failure points, all of which were individually super unlikely.
2. I now understand how seriously safety is taken.
3. I also understand how incredibly clever planes are, and how much skill goes into being any part of the crew.
4. I also now understand that while the odds aren't good, they are still sometimes survival events.
5. At the beginning you always give the number of flights hours of the pilots. To imagine that many hours in the sky and still being ok, makes my once-every-4 years journeys seem just really unlikely to be the one time the plane is gonna run into a crash.
6. The happenings of the cockpit is now not some magical mystery I fully don't understand. Understanding more is empowering because you aren't just hoping for the best when you have some level of understanding about what's happening. Not saying I could fly a plane now (😂), but definitely it's not ALL some magical mystery now beyond my total comprehension either.
Of course, all of these lessons would have been totally lost on me had the content not been also really engaging. So thank you for creating this for me and opening the world up for me again in a much less brutally terrifying way.
That's awesome! And very well put.
About your point #5, I daresay it's actually even better than you say. Petter (Mentour Pilot) once stated that he has actually never himself even been involved in any kind of significant mishap, like an engine failure (which, as I'm sure you know by now, isn't even really as big of a problem as people usually think), and that's despite him being a very experienced captain (= many, many hours). AFAIK, pilots usually go through their entire careers without ever having anything particularly serious happening. I think I remember the statistic being that there's only a serious accident once per 11 _million_ flight hours... Meaning that you'd have to spend about 1,255 _years_ flying before you'd get in a crash, statistically speaking.
I know that the numbers themselves might not help much, but the 'why' is another thing that's good to know and be aware of: we humans inherently _suck_ at *intuitively* understanding a lot of maths, such as exponential phenomena (we like things linear) and, more related to here, large numbers and probabilities.
And worse, we often reactively fear/disparage what we don't understand, which, in our modern society, is a rather bad habit.
I applaud you for having faced your fears through learning.
I know exactly what you mean and I related to it a lot in a lot of ways. I too live across a different continent (and hemisphere) from my home town, so I tend to fly a lot. Thankfully, I've been flying since I was a baby. I've been always used to planes, so I never suffered from anxiety or fear of planes or heights much. I may get a bit anxious now and then, but it usually goes away fast.
I didn't know anything about flying either before, but binging Peter's videos have definitely made me understand it a lot better, and made me appreciate just how much time, effort and skill goes into flying an airplane. The awe and admiration I have for pilots now is a lot more than I had before.
In a way, I think that's how it goes for a lot of things in life. Having dealt with homophobia for a portion of my life, I can definitely see the resemblance. People tend to fear, be scared of, or find potentially anxiety inducing things they don't understand well(flying/queer people). Understanding it doesn't necessarily mean you belong to the group/can do the thing (piloting/being queer) but it definitely makes you understand that it's not a magical realm where magical and weird things happen, and that people work together to make it work.
And like you said, none of this would work if the content wasn't engaging. The fact that it's so well produced and Peter explains it in a rational way, while also showing his own experience in the area is definitely what makes it work out so well.
Isn't it so strange how learning about plane crashes makes you feel better about flying? The first time I was ever on a plane was in high school, and I basically started on hard mode: a 10+ hour transatlantic flight without my parents. As a teenager I was anxious about pretty much everything, so obviously the idea of flying scared the hell out of me. I think I spent at least six months before the flight reading everything I could about plane crashes and aviation safety, and I came out of it feeling so much better. When you really take in all the info, it becomes clear how wildly unusual crashes are, and how it's even rarer for them to have significant fatalities.
If you are scared of flying, you probably shouldn't get in a car, a bus, or a train. There's no safer means of transportation than flying.
Like you, I used to be afraid of flying. One flight, I had an empty seat next to me, and a pilot got on (not the plane's pilot, but he also worked for the airline). Throughout the flight, he explained all the mechanics that kept a plane in flight. Never had an issue since. Knowledge is empowering.
Maintenance: “This component has failed in flight over 10 times, but we can’t find the issue on the ground. Should we just replace the whole assembly?”
“Nah, just tell the pilots to keep an eye on it. What’s the worst that could happen?”
It was the simple solution, it was this Pilot aircraft anyway, he should learn about to how predict possible problems, and missgifts..... Real problem was copilot, even if he was more ready as captain, he was used to soviet made plane, and they are build and react diferently.
why not just disable the autothrottle and just have retraining for the crews? Aviation safety is a joke at best.
I'm inclined to agree with you.
@@miroslavdockal9468 The copilot who was incapacitated?
That's not a maintenance issue. It's the manufacturer's.
Imagine knowing a component you sold is randomly failing, it has no redundancy checks, and could kill several people. And still waiting til many people die and there's a report out with your name on it before redesigning it.
If instead of telling the maintenance crews to grease it up, if they had partially or completely disabled the ATS while developing and testing a new thrust lever design, this wouldn't have happened. No chance. But all large companies are reckless when it comes to safety, they prefer lawsuits over preventative solutions to existing problems
I really appreciate that you played that alarm for us. I could not think straight as it played for the three or so seconds it did. Can't imagine having to try to get a plane back on course with a dying or dead pilot next to me with that dang noise the entire time. Playing the alarm really puts what that poor First Officer was going through into perspective.
Yes Lisa.... He was overwhelmed by a barrage of information , then confusion as regards the "False Horizon" compounding his understanding of the situation.
But I am struggling to accept that three airlines knew this plane had a serious defect in the auto throttle on #1 engine..... I find that Criminally Negligent.
@@patagualianmostly7437unfortunately, autopilot is not legally required to be operating so I can see why it was neglected.
You’d think they would label and disable it, however, because that IS legally required.
That alarm woke me from a dead sleep after I spent hours trying to fall asleep due to insomnia. I'll be watching this channel with the volume off and closed captioning on from now on...
i'm honestly surprised and confused that it was designed to behave that way. i'm very sure there's good reason for it, but based on my minimal knowledge i'd think that any alarm should only sound for as long as it needs to in order to prevent overloading the cockpit. i'm really wondering now what condition it needed fulfilled before that alarm would stop.
As Mentour Pilot takes 20 minutes to calmly and clearly go through the scenario unfolding on the flight it's easy to forget how much time was elapsing in reality. 2 minutes in this case; and with so much happening too.
Yeah this fatal crashes often happen so quickly. In seconds rather than minutes
And ironically enough those 2 minutes probably felt like the longest two minutes ever
@@SW-kr9flseconds if it’s close to the ground or something but if they’re at cruising altitude 35,000 even an 8K decent would take 3 minutes to get to 11,000. Assuming the planes just dropping instead of coasting or anything like that
15:21 This is why I don't fall asleep watching this channel anymore. Woke up the entire house. Almost had a heart attack...
Wow.. this insanely unlucky string of coincidences is stunning. First the auto thrust issue with the plane, then the fact that the flight plan involved a left turn which matched the polarity of the auto thrust issue, then the fact that air traffic control cleared the left turn earlier than planned causing the captain to fiddle with nav instead of holding the thrust levers, then the captain is medically incapacitated right at the instant that the plane reaches an altitude that causes the auto thrust system to do work (kicking the auto thrust issue into motion), causes a huge distraction to the co-pilot who has the controls and thinks the plane is stable and focuses for too long on his struggling colleague, and finally when he turns his full attention back to the plane his piloting is stymied by the fact that he's in the clouds and instruments only, and the vast majority of his flight hours were on Soviet built planes that had a different style of artificial horizon. Unbelievable bad luck for all on that plane. Rest in peace.
Usually is a lot of individually small issues that in isolation probably wouldn't cause an accident, but when they all add up it ends in tragedy
great summary. shows how quick things can turn bad. and then the insticts kick in.
The Swiss cheese alignments analogy.
I am not a pilot but find these videos fascinating. I have a greater appreciation for pilots and their workload now.
For me I no longer want to fly.
I show my appreciation by paying for my ticket so they get a nice salary.
@@feelthatfeelthat I find it remarkeble how much need to go wrong for a plane to crash, I mean here it is heart attack combined with too much familiarity with Russian build planes and a change in course all at exactly the same couple of seconds, I mean what are the odds of that such incredibly bad luck, it makes me want to fly watching this and I have watched every single episode of aircrash investigation on Netional geographic as well and it makes me happy to fly watching it.
@@feelthatfeelthat Opposite for me. Shows how much it really takes for a plane to go down.
@@feelthatfeelthat Okay you are more likely to be struck by lightning ⚡️ 15 times in 1 year then being in a air crash 💥 You are more likely to be killed in a car accident 100 times in a one year time period. Oh and if you swim in a pool 🏊🏻♀️ you are more likely to drown even if you can swim up to 30 times in one year. All true
I’m a 767 Captain and I learn something from every horrible event you detail very thoroughly. Love this channel even though it’s sad to see what leads up to many of these disasters. Keep up the work you do. It’s valuable information. Footnote. There have been quite a few accidents that you have profiled that concern the differences in the attitude indicators on western built and Russian built aircraft. Thats tragic.
The unique thing with Petter is that he has the ability to explain the accidents in a way so both you, a captain, and I, an artist learn something. From different perspectives, but still. He makes me much less nervous. 😌
Yeah when Russia opened up (temporarily lol) and their airlines began buyong Western jets you suddenly had hundreds or even thousands of pilots who spent their entire life with Soviet artificial horizons having to use the Western style, which look a lot like the opposite (L bank looks like bank to the right) and in an emergency with startle effect plus trying to figure out you tend to revert to instinct and habit. So there's been a bunch of incidents. Most you probably never hear of. Probably just some momentary "holy shit" followed by recovery and a few embarassed looks in the cockpit and an awkward announcement to the cabin with passengers muttering, something like "this is what I get for flying Aeroflot".
When I took A&P classes at Miramar my instructor (a licensed pilot and Vans RV-7 owner) had four rules for flying that he always observed.
#1 was to never fly the “A” model, #2 was to never fly anything Russian-built, probably for exactly this reason.
Personally, I prefer the Russian as the Western makes no damn sense to me.
@@shanestachwick4784Mas miramar?
As an aircraft mechanic, the most frustrating thing is not being able to replicate the issue and you’re left trying to decipher what was really going on in relation to the troubleshooting manuals. The troubleshooting manuals will normally go through an operational check and if it works that time, then the system is ok. But when it’s the third time it’s happened in a week, then it’s difficult to decide where to begin.
I struggle with the fact that you can't replicate the issue, but somehow the crash investigation gets to the bottom of the problem.
hindsight is 2020 @@nigelturner9606
@@nigelturner9606 we don’t have access to black box, dfdau, and flight recordings during troubleshooting. And most troubleshooting is performed during a 2 day AOG window at max. We can’t be in the cockpit to see or feel what is happening so all we have are our manuals and intuition. If the system checks out ok during our tests then it’s legal to sign it off. Usually when it’s a repeat or chronic issue and cannot determine the cause on the ground, then we will start changing out the most likely suspected LRUs.
@@nigelturner9606 Investigators literally got to the bottom of the problem. A flat spotted roller bearing from the throttle quadrant was found at the bottom of the 30 ft crater. Investigators and Airbus knew exactly what they were looking for. The flat spotted roller was known to Pan Am Maintenance when they operated the very aircraft 5-years earlier but the PIREP was signed off as "lubed." There was an undisclosed settlement with the plaintiffs after the investigation was completed.
The strangest thing for me these plains have a GO even though they are experiencing some critical issues. Sounds very unprofessional to try to replicate the issue during the ground time and if it is not replicated by the technician the action is to simply let the plane fly again. With this kind of issue, no flight should be accepted until it is clear what is the cause. Really shocking!
That moment when you said, "....but because they are in a left hand turn..."
-And you see it all come together....Oh....Oh no.
Yeah, that just about told the whole story. (at about 10:20) And at only around 1500 feet AGL, there's no extra seconds for correction.
Also, if the FO is trying to reach over to help the pilot with his left hand while steadying the controls with his right hand, he will maintain his bank angle. Any erratic motion with his left hand will tend to pull the controls left at the exact worst time.
Its so cruel. What a load of crap. Cmon God that's just a cheap shot....
I really appreciate your respect for the loss of life. You don't just talk about a statistic, you show us the memorial, you play music, you give us a moment to mourn because these are people who deserve to be mourned. It's clear this isn't just an academic interest for you; this is a responsibility for lives that you take seriously every time you fly or teach others to fly.
I don’t think you could be a pilot and not appreciate the loss of life. Pilots are aware of how quickly things can go wrong with disastrous outcomes.
Flying is a fickle game where minor errors can have life altering and life ending outcomes.
music is the worst part, triggeres too much emotions.
@@mikes-b6009
Flying isn't fickle at all... it's one of, if not, the safest form of commercial transport. You're more like to be killed driving to the shops to get some milk or while catching a train to work. The fact that if there is a malfunction of some type you're in a dire situation is just obvious as you're at the mercy of gravity.. that's not fickle.. that's physics.
@Ali Al-Mahdi
??? Wrong channel maybe??
I think the "meaningless opinions from assholes no one gives a shit about" is down the road. Take a hike.
@Ali Al-Mahdi I’m a father of two adult daughters who I raised on my own throughout their teens. I was also a health care professional and I find your ‘theory’ of menstruation and blood to be both concerning and I’ll-informed.
I’m unable to rationalise how menstruation has anything to do with flying an aircraft!!!!
I feel really sad for the first officer in this case, it seems very likely that his genuine concern for the Captain distracted his attention for just a moment but that was all it took for everything to overwhelm him, it just feels unfair!
This is my 2nd time re-watching this incident and I wanted to bring a special attention to one detail. Before the captain was potentially incapacitated, the first-officer asked the captain to retract the flaps and the captain did. Now, the flap lever is on the right side of the thrust levers. There is no way the captain could have missed the asymmetrical thrust. It's literally in the line of sight. The only reason I can think of is the captain was already feeling what he was feeling at that time with his mind only fixated on the task at hand (retracting the flaps) and not the surroundings, whilst experiencing the pain. A real terrible coincidence of tragedy indeed.
I agree..... he must have been distracted by his own pain and merely concentrated on his task in hand....the flap lever. Just so sad....all of it.
To me it sounded like he had a heart attack
@@Eet0saurusWe'll never know, sadly. In the end, there's a myriad of potential health issues that could have caused it - while not a lot of stuff kills you immediately, pretty much any extremely painful issue can literally cause people to pass out from the pain alone for a few minutes (which would have been enough here). After all, we don't know if he only lost consciousness or died right away. Just horrible that it happened with the worst possible timing :(
My father was good friends with Captain Liviu Batanoiu. We lived pretty close to him in Bucharest. My dad and I were jus discussing this accident last weekend and he mentioned that they had met for a chat a couple days before the accident. My grandpa worked at Bucharest Otopeni International Airport (now Henri Coanda) and back in 1998 he took me to the hangar where the remains of flight 371 were still being stored. I remember getting very emotional just like back in 1995 when the accident happened.
Man if this is not THE MOST stupid airplane crash ever ! What can i say: Long live garbage aviation ... Romania :(
@@neytiritetskahamoatite7688 all airplane crash are stupid, i would not put this on the copilot as much as i would put it on beoing for knowing that they had a problem and did not fix it. There are a lot of things going wrong in this accident.
@@alexandrul.9910 why would Boeing fix it?
Thank you for sharing this :)
@@alexandrul.9910 - so you wouldn't blame the airline who bought the plane knowing that it had this problem yet still didn't replace the component? You must be Romanian!!
I'm sure you've heard this a hundred times, but you are very skilled at explaining things.
He is a trainer, he must be :) Good Cpt! :)
@@AlessandroGenTLe true 👍
could you share that skill with us😉
@@FyourCult “Skillshare”
And you can be too, with Skillshare!
What a ridiculous series of events, this has to be the unluckiest aircraft accident in history.
My parents flew this plane the day before, so me waking up and hearing at TV that this plane had a crash almost gave me a heart attack. There was no internet at that time so news was slower, so I had no idea the crash didn't happen a day before. Terrible tragedy.
That cavalry alarm gave me some serious anxiety/panic, I couldn't imagine having to make split second life or death decisions with that thing blaring.
Well, his plane was essentially screaming for him to fly it because it couldn't fly itself. Neither could pilot. Had to be horrific, I agree.
Important reminder to always Cancel/Identify any alarm. This is to allow other system alarms to function and tell you more info.
@@jeffstillwell6802 you cant always do that though.
@@tankthearc9875 you can! Just reach up and smash the red or yellow button, read the EICAS, do the work.
hey at least it alarms you
So crazy. It's insane how fast things go from perfectly normal to unrecoverable catastrophe.
Ikr
@@davidt8087 you're full of shit and don't know anything at all
What's really insane is that they have all this technology out there that can rectify much of these situations yet there's no SOL threshold where the plane will say "F#@k it, I need to fix it!" and lockout pilot inputs temporarily to rectify to situation. I mean, it should be a no-brainer that a plane should not be going past a certain bank angle or damn near upside down. At that point what's the worst that could happen if the plane takes over?
@randallsmerna384 they do on F-16s, 35s and 22s. Maybe one day it will make it to civilian platforms. It isn't universal in the military yet tho.
My best friend's dad was flying the A310s back then for Tarom. My dad was on the B707. They both knew the pilot and co-pilot. It shook them quite a bit.
not even a month before I was aboard this very plane from Heathrow to Bucharest. when I heard the news it crashed I just froze!
I was on Air France 447 exactly 1 week before it went missing, same night flight from Rio to Paris
Damn, that's scary.
This video brings up some unpleasant memories as a colleague of mine was on that flight. But it is first time I see a really comprehensive explanation of what happened. Really appreciate that. Thank you.
How's he doing now
@@bmw_m4255 Bruh
😢🎉
I’m sorry for your loss
I hope your colleague wasn't working on the Bucharest subway...
This is so damn sad, the Captain became incapacitated at the worst possible time. But i guess that's why flight instructors always beat it into students heads to always fly the plane no matter what is happening around you.
Indeed. The mathematical possibility that the incapacitation of the Captain happened at this moment and together with the other circumstances was nearly zero - but not fully zero - and here Murphy´s Law unfortunately stepped in: Everything what can happen will happen. And yes, I still think that the shocking of the FO was at least one reason why he was then unable to fly the plane.
@@NicolaW72 well perhaps not because presumably take off and stress increase chances of a heart attack - so more likely at times of stress - which is when you most need two pilots
@@jamesbirkin351 Still nearly zero, like he said. The increased risk of heart attack would still be well under 1%, but I'll be generous and let you have any medical condition, but you would still be very wrong. A study of16,000 commercial pilots found that the odds of a pilot becoming physically incapacitated on a flight at any time during that year was only 0.25% (exactly 40 pilots had a single episode in a year's time), and that's the chance for a year of flying. Commercial pilots can only fly a maximum of 1,400 hours in a year(edited, I incorrectly wrote 1,000 hrs in my initial post), and they are also checked annually for their health, and pilots are disqualified from flying with serious heart conditions or even diabetes requiring a hyperglycemic drug. So the odds in a years time this would happen to a pilot is nearly zero. Your already incorrect observation becomes a hundred times weaker when you adjust the odds of incapacitation from yearly probability to the probability over the course of a single flight. Therefore, assuming a very generous estimate of only 100 flights/year, the odds are now at 0.0025% of this happening during and given flight, which is very much nearly zero. The point about the pilot being in a stressful situation is not valid because they were climbing and having no major problems when he began to feel ill and it was his sudden incapacitation that set events into motion.
@@jamesbirkin351 +
@@sheeplehunter9651 - Nearly zero is not zero.
This, to me, is one of the saddest crash scenarios that I've seen. Though most (or all?) crashes have multiple causes or conditions occurring in combination, this one just seems as if events really conspired against the poor first officer. : (
Karma.
Sometimes a group is meant to leave.
In the same way,
sometimes someone just misses the flight
because his time is not yet.
@@zen4men You're right, it's all according to one's divine life plan, isn't it. I usually manage to remember that but sometimes get caught up in drama of events.
@@oneworldawakening
I have "met" otherworlds/other beings,
and know I have lived before / will again / never die,
which does change one's perspective!
We are in a World War.
A spiritual struggle
on a global scale.
Orchestrated fear, globally.
schizo@@zen4men
@@PsychoKaedeMode
You see
what you think you see
I see
what I know I see
I have experienced things
that most people only read books on.
If you see that as "schizo",
that says far more about you
than it does about me.
/
I remember this like it was yesterday. Living in Romania, I was in my first year of highschool, and I remember reading daily newspapers that had full double and quadruple pages dedicated to this accident.
What a terrible chain of events how could anyone deal with a situation like this. Very sad.
Yes, it was a tragedy for my country. Very sad.
" how could anyone deal with a situation like this" -- uh, I think that's the pilot and co-pilot's responsibility, but I could be wrong...
@@raylopez99 It maybe their responsibility, but so much was happening at the same time. Far too simplistic to say it's their responsibility. Even with good training, this appeared to be a rare occurrence, imagine your colleague incapacitated without warning and dealing with a plane losing control. As i said your comment was simplistic.
@@greymark420 Not really. Crazy or incapacitated pilots are rather not uncommon, for example that FedEx flight, the golfer Payne Stewart private jet, that decompression incident with Aegion? from Cyprus (the flight attendant almost became a hero but not quite) and so on.
@@raylopez99 Always easy to make comparisons from an armchair. I work for the emergency services, very well aware how a high stress environment effects an individual. Even with good training, we are not infallible. That's what makes us human.
My dad was working in airport security at that time in Bucharest airport. He told me that he talked with the pilots and the flight crew before they embarked in the plane, they told some jokes, etc. They all seemed fine. He was shocked when he found out about the crash... :| he couldn't believe it.
I can imagine this. The crash happened in round about a minute - until then it was a routine workday and a routine take-off.
I am so sorry for his loss ! :( My father was about to fly back to Otopeni that very day, we had heard about a plane crash but didn't know details, so we went in with lots of fear. Only when we saw him coming up smiling did we finally feel relief.
I remember. My aunt woke me up. I knew them, as the chief pilot for the Airbus program at Tarom was a close family friend. I flew with most of them, and flew on Muntenia...I have photos of that plane before the crash. Noroc.
Îmi pare rău să aud asta.
i dont believe you
Having flown both Russian as well as Western Fast Jets, I can testify to this problem arising due to different depiction of Artificial Horizon. That is why we are taught to always correlate the Artificial Horizon indications with secondary instrument, ie, the compass and the turn and slip indicator. That form the basis of recovery from unusual attitudes in actual IFR conditions when the visual horizon is not available. Another basic learning is that whenever you're facing an unusual situation, the first action is to level the aircraft and then do your trouble shooting. The Aviate part of Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. Such a sad waste of life. All the more important to never ever forget the basics of flying. Congratulations to you as well as your Patreon crew on this amazing deduction.
The Russian method seems more intuitive to me, which do you prefer of the two?
@@saraparadis8047 It is a matter of getting used to, but personally, I agree with you. The Russian depiction of Artificial Horizon (AGD, Agda, as they call it) is more intuitive.
@@saraparadis8047the Russian method makes more sense. It is the plane that is moving, not the sky.
@@catherinearangie2311 The plane is moving, but the pilot is moving with it. Relative to the plane-pilot reference frame the horizon will change the angle. The eastern system shows the view from someone outside (behind) the plane who is sitting upright aligned with the horizon. The western system shows the view from inside the cockpit and what the pilot would see if looking out the window.
@@benhetland576 I could agree that anyone would prefer the method that they started out with but in all objectivity there is nothing intuitive about the soviet model. The western model is much more intuitive and makes much more sense because in essence it shows the same image/view as what a pilot would normally see from the cockpit window just in a simplified digital form.
Learning about things like this have made me a lot more tolerant of mistakes made by people elsewhere in life.
The same cognitive biases exist outside of the cockpit and have caused people to make some truly tragic mistakes.
I don't know if it has any relevance, yet first officer Stoi was a friend of a friend of my grandfather's. As you mentioned in the video, it was a pretty well-regarded airman, and even entrusted (at least once) with flying Ceaușescu's backup plane in one of his visits abroad. Seeing such a skilful person not being able to gain control of the situation is a grim reminder that even the best of us can succumb to stress and maybe, as you said, certain mental patterns and habits.
SLOJ.
It seems that some of the most terrible accidents happen with the most experienced and respected pilots at the controls. Ex.: KLM at Tenerife.
@Tiberiu Danciu
*Wow, that's quite a rarity that anyone would have piloted Ceausescu's plane! Did your Grandfather get to meet him??!?!*
If so what did he think of the man?
@@watershed44
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the story goes that he flew a backup/logistics plane in the presidential convoy, not Ceaușescu's plane itself.
Sadly, he didn't get to meet him, so this is more of a "he said that he said" story. This led myself to believe that it could just be hearsay, so I tried to fact-check the little stuff I knew.
Before the Boeing 707 presidential plane was bought, Ceaușescu flew on an Ilyushin Il-18 (YR-IMM, with YR-IMZ also being part of the presidential fleet). Stoi had 6,593 flight hours on the Il-18. He also worked for the TAROM state airline, which for all intents and purposes, operated presidential flights.
So I think it's pretty plausible that the story is indeed true. Maybe the aircraft in question was the YR-IMZ. The location was in South America, so this would probably put the date in September 1973 (Also, my grandfather said something about a coup d'etat happening at the time - this checks out with the September 11th, 1973 coup in Chile). At the time, Stoi would have just celebrated his fifth year of being a pilot, so maybe the relative lack of experience is why he didn't get to fly Ceaușescu himself.
In 1974, the aforementioned Boeing 707 was bought, and given the fact that Stoi didn't have a type rating for the 707, he probably didn't get another chance at flying a presidential plane.
Funnily enough, in researching this, I discovered that captain Bătănoiu did have 5,151 flight hours on the 707 at the time of the incident. Given that TAROM wasn't flying too many western aircraft at the time, it would be worth looking if maybe he got to fly the newer presidential plane.
@@tiberiud Thanks for the reply! Very interesting and intriguing information!
Your air crash investigations are narrated and explained better than the NatGeo show.
Amazing Amazing work. I love them.
Thank you!
Nat Geo is mostly crap because they spend 40% of the show covering stuff completely irrelevant to the crash. "Was it a failed engine that caused the crash?!?!" *30 minutes later* no. Pilot error.
@@MentourPilot I love your videos !! Could you do one of the 2 planes that collided mid air in India ?
@@PigeonPlucker I like Air Crash Investigations because they interview the people involved, may it be the investigators or the survivors.
@@PigeonPlucker Let me be your cheerleader for saying this. I want to watch a program about the event, maybe a little bit of personal info about key figures and possibly ironic/tragic vignettes related to it, and then the nuts and bolts of the investigation. Don't take me around in pirouettes for an hour just to add enough mattress stuffing to consider your work "a tv program" or "a documentary." Also, if the cause of the crash relates to other similar crashes, then you may add that, too (example: American Airlines Flight 96 (in 1972...all survived), arising from faulty design/incomplete closure of a cargo door on a DC-10, then the issuance of a Service bulletin, then again, Turkish Airlines Flight 981 (in 1974...346 dead)... all because of failure to repair the cargo door problem on their DC-10).
One of several acceptable examples of an EXCEPTION to this is South African Airways Flight 295 (which became known as "The Helderberg Disaster"). The program that I saw was SO well done, because it DID focus on more than just the disaster, the investigation and the times, but the political situation at the time, with how apartheid had an effect on what potentially contraband cargo may have been transported on the 747 Combi (Passengers in the front, cargo in the back)... Cheers.
May all of them rest in peace! My father was a Tarom pilot, he made it through retirement but was killed by cancer ten years later, as were many, many more of his colleagues. Aviation is a beautiful and noble profession but exacts a high toll, either before or after you exit the cockpit.
What caused the cancer?
@@geddon436 most likely accumulated high altitude radiation.
@@maxavail I didn't know there was a correlation between flying and cancer. May your father rest in peace and I hope someday science and technology will find a way to guard or better protect our pilots against this.
@@AlinJ. thank you, bro!
Thats not true. My uncle was also a pilot and died from a heart attack. Way to generalize.
I knew of someone that died in this crash, and I was always curious to know more about what happened. Thank you so much for this thorough and enlightening episode. Great work.
Related to the artificial horizon .... indeed, for planes built in the west, the reference position to the horizon is inside the plane and moves with it, while for the Russians it is fixed, placed outside the plane. I'm not a pilot but I have a friend who was a military pilot on MIG 21. I don't know why there are such differences and my friend didn't manage to give me an explanation either. From my point of view, the western approach is more logical because it looks at the horizon through the eyes of the pilot, but in the end it is a matter of habit and routine. And you are certainly right when you say that it is possible that this difference in design and his long experience on Eastern aircraft is one of the causes. I make an analogy with a driver who has driven on the right all his life and ends up driving in a country where he drives on the left. He can drive very well but in a critical situation he is very likely to react instinctively completely the opposite of how he should be in the new condition in which he drives.
The soviet approach makes no sense. You're inside the plane. That should always be your reference.
Dacă nu ești pilot, de ce îți dai cu părerea atât de critic la adresa piloților? Doar pe motivul ca ai auzit tu la un prieten? Prietene, ești pe dinafară și faci praf niște piloți foarte buni, școliți în academia militară și cu foarte multa experienta. Iti garantez ca dacă avionul ala nu ar fi fost defect l ar fi pilotat cu ochii închiși. Chiar îl crezi pe ăsta ca nu au putut citi orizontul? Pe bune? Scuza ma dar ești dus.
@@uk..bruiser..4046 Cu ce i-am facut praf? Ce am criticat? Ce este fals in ceea ce am spus si in ce consta critica? Am impresia ca tu esti praf amice.
@@uk..bruiser..4046 Hai sa le luam pe rand sa vedem cat de idioata este interventia ta. Am spus ca nu sunt pilot si ca stiu de la un prieten de aceasta diferenta de abordare intre vest si est. Ce este critic si ce este neadevarat aici? Am mai spus ca nu stiu si nici prietenul meu nu stie explicatia dar este o diferenta in modul in care este perceputa relatia dintre pilot si aparat intre conceptia vestica si cea estica. Nu am incercat sa ma dau mare sa arunc ipoteze, am spus clar ca nu stiu de ce, dar fie ca iti place sau nu, aceasta diferenta exista. Cand am spus ca eu prefer abordarea vestica nu am afirmat ca ar fi mai buna sau mai proasta decat cea estica, am spus doar o preferinta personala. Unde este aici critica si cu ce am facut prin asta praf pilotii scoliti in academia militara? Am mai spus ca un om obisnuit cu un anumit mod de reactie, cand trece pe alt sistem oricat de bun este in situatii critice poate sa reactioneze in modul in care a fost obisnuit ani de zile si am dat ca exemplu un sofer care ani de zile a condus pe stanga, pus sa conduca pe dreapta. Este un fapt normal, se poate intampla oricui oricat de bine este pregatit. Unde este aici critica si cu ce am facut praf generatii de piloti? Asa ca inca odata afirm, amice, tu esti praf si comentator doar de dragul comentariului fara sa argumentezi cu nimic decat cu ura ca cineva indrazneste sa aiba o opinie.
Thank you for clearing that up-I could see how that would make a big difference in what is seen on screen.
Mentour producing better documentaries than documentary makers yet again! Thanks for the awesome content dude
@Godzilla Hårddisksson He pretty much is doing that now!
Goes into detail but makes it very understandable
This is my first viewing. For a non pilot ( and let's face it, most of us are here but we really want to understand as best we can everything going on ) I really appreciate all the angles that Mentour is giving us, technical and human . Won over sir !
Under stress we revert to the oldest and most primitive learning and instincts that we have. I compare this to braking on ice and how we can see how it is not working and yet we instantly push harder locking the BRAKES. That only makes it worse. I love this episode! Thank you MP!
I absolutely love the way you tell the story and explain everything in a technical way but still manage to make it very clear.
It's a talent in itself.
The wife of a good friend of mine was supposed to be onboard but she canceled her flight the day before. The memory of this still lingers around. Thank you for explaining it so well.
Wow that was a close call
Did she ever said why she canceled the flight?
I must tell you how much I enjoy your intelligent discussion.
Thank you! I hope you watched it to the end
@@MentourPilot just about. Darn work responsibilities.
And so free from any political talk. Very refreshing.
This is nightmare fuel. I was almost 12 when this happened and it was the first aircrash I've ever heard about. Or maybe it just stuck to me because I am Romanian and this felt close. It probably played a major role in my ongoing fear of flying. Condoleances to the families affected, I cannot imagine what the passengers went through :(
This disaster seems caused by exactly the same kind of issue the 737 Max had. Ofcourse, technically, it's completely different. But corruption and greed (of the airplane manufacturers - AIRBUS, BOEING, of the airlines too) can cause such major tragedies. Airbus knew there was a potentially fatal flaw and did nothing about? Delta and Tarom knew about and still flew like nothing was going on? Every executive involved in trading that airplane or in deciding that it should have been allowed to fly should be IN JAIL with a LIFE SENTENCE. Technicians who haven't sounded the alarm too. Companies involved should be bankrupt.
Family of mine sailed around the world and returned safely after 8 years. Their motto was it only takes 3 factors to lead to a potential shipwreck. This made them very conservative when it came to fixing any single problem. It's worth remembering that in any undertaking. I particularly appreciate MP's respect for those who died - silence, cut to the grave in silence. It gives one a moment to pay respect. Thank you!
This brings chills down my spine, because I was supposed to be on the flight but didn’t make it... one of those nine lives surely gone that day...
Great analysis, as usual. Never thought about the potential confusion coming from the soviet attitude indicator. Kudos to Dmitri for spotting that out, it can explained the lack of stick correction.
Wow
So what was the reason back then for you not to embark on that flight?
(Edited 21 hours later - after asking the question) Personally, i know somebody who was suppose to be on that flight as well, couldn't get a straight answer for him losing the flight. There were a few other persons who stated they were suppose to be on that flight, on different comment sources (youtube, personal vlogs, articles etc) who never answered my question "what was the reason for not embarking?"
Always one isn't there
The biggest thing I'm taking away from this series of yours is just how many things have to go wrong for an accident to happen. If just a single part of these things did not happen, everything would've been fine.
Very true. Did you see the 1964 move; Fate is the Hunter? It's all about a series of events.
@@williamfaulkner1959 "Fate Is The Hunter" is a great book if you haven't read it.
@@xistrik3rix Thanks
That's very true but it's less often that the timing makes such a big impact. They turned early, causing a masking of the symptom and at the same time the pilot becomes incapacitated. That's incredibly bad luck.
So true. Pretty much all of the major air crashes that I can think of have consisted of a chain of cascading events which end in disaster. Thankfully, the chances of so many things going wrong at the same time are exceedingly rare.
I am a retired BA pilot, John Chapman. My history is: Copilot on Vickers Vanguard; Copilot, Flight Engineer and Captain on Lockheed Tristars; Captain on Avro 748; and last 10 years as Captain on Boeing 747-400.
I have not flown an Airbus.
My comment on this accident is that the Captain should not have been fiddling with the FMC at such a low altitude and immediately after takeoff.
The correct action, in my opinion, upon receiving the ATC instruction for the early left turn, was for the Captain to press Heading mode and turn the Heading pointer towards the target fix, an action of 2 or 3 seconds, and to continue to monitor the flight and to keep a lookout, especially upwards and to the left, in the direction of the turn.
Plenty of time once the turn is complete to fiddle with the FMC!
I am perhaps 'old school', but the fundamental function of the pilot(s) must always be to FLY THE AIRCRAFT!
Yes. But some airline systems autopilot won't let you as I understand it. Disastrous if this is so.
I am not a pilot. But I'm with you. Re entering code to a computer is not something I would do whilst driving a car let alone flying an aircraft Also. Isn't that computer right next to the thrust lever. So he was actually looking right there? The more of these I watch the more I'm thinking the Auto Pilot is actually inside the pilots head and when something out of the ordinary happens it's down to the pilots ability to re engage his internal manual pilot. Also came to mind that a 3rd officer or flight engineer would have been monitoring engines. This being back in the days when 2 person cockpits where still quite new.
Good to hear that there are still old school pilots in those big airplanes. From some accidents I get the feeling that some pilots are little too reluctant to switch off the autopilot when there is something strange going on and their situation awareness is questionable, while others fly the plane perfectly. I remember the record of stick position in Tu-154 Smolensk tragic accident showing that after the plane stalled few feet over the ground and flips upside down, PIC pushes like he is going to fly the plane inverted. Best possible action, but I believe it must be completely instinctive (I know many aerobatic beginners tend to do the opposite) and this instinct was probably gained from his aerobatic training. Not sure how this is common among non-army pilots.
I too thought it would have been easier and faster to adjust the heading rather than mess with the FMC. If it was even possible on this particular aircraft
There are just two aviation channels that I LOVE. Your channel and Kelsey’ s. As a life long aviation enthusiast and a “grounded” private pilot, I can express my thanks to both of you. I love learning about safety, systems and aircraft in general. Be well
Me too. They are the best pilot channels on RUclips
Wow - what a catastrophic set of coincidences. The fact they were initiating a left turn as the thrust changed in a way that was consistent with the effects if making a turn, and the Captain apparently experiencing a health event as the same time. Kind of ridiculous that the autothrottle malfunction was well known and left for pilots to deal with. Excellent analysis of the potential for artificial horizon instrumentation being the most critical factor.
Wouldn't flying a left turn in that case feel different from usual? I don't get why they didn't watch the thrust lever, knowing about this issue..
@@JudeLawKingKlaus the Pilot, in the left hand seat, was the one watching the throttles and handling all the other inputs required, as the Copilot was the one who was actually hands on, flying the aircraft. The pilot had to take his attention off the throttle levers in order to enter the changes required to make an early turn, so he did not see the left hand lever continue to move lower, nor see the right hand lever stuck. And by the time the call for flaps happened, it seems the pilot had had what I can only assume is a heart attack, thus completely distracting the copilot from anything else going on to the aircraft. Unfortunately, the cabin crew and the passengers, having nothing to distract them, would have noticed rather quickly that something was very wrong, but with neither the time or ability to do anything about it.
As for the throttle difference, yea, eventually they would have noticed the results, but from what I can tell, the right engine was at climb setting, call it 90%, and the left engine was probably around 70% or so? That is based on what I assume are the thrust dials shown a few times, and where the indicators were pointing. Also, a change is much harder to notice when it is happening slowly, than when it is happening rapidly.
@@JudeLawKingKlaus No no no, you don't "feel". Pilots have said they are instructed to ignore the body feel because it's misleading them and they die if they do that, they have to follow their cabin instruments, they rely on them. Due to the weather they could not see outside the windows, they had no feeling in the human body if they were going up/down, you could be falling and think you are going up - in the airplane, if you don't see anything. Expecially when the entire flight took 1min30 and previously they thought everything was ok, then everything didn't make sense. This after being given a defective airplane to fly + told to take a left turn earlier than they were indending to. Even with the captain pilot still alive this would have been from bad do still a catastrophe.
The captain had a heart attack. The timing of all events seems “perfect” for this disaster to occur. Of cause, no postmortem can be done, but based on all of the events, this seems to be the most likely scenario. Poor people… :(
The sudden incapacitation suggests a cerebral vascular problem - a serious stroke. It could go either way, though. Blockage of the circumflex artery stops the heart very rapidly.
@@flagmichael May he just realized the throttle position and failing organ was a result.
Heart attack was what I was guessing too, based on the groans, like he was in serious pain.
@@FreedomIsNotGoingToBeFree he looked down to adjust the flaps, saw the left thrust lever was like 10 degrees off from the right, and several organs just went “ah. No” simultaneously.
Such bad timing 😮
You have one of the best channels on RUclips. Keep up the great work!
This is mind blowing. Those things will never cause a crash on their own, but a combination of them and you're in big trouble. I'm a drone pilot, shooting for my advanced Canadian license. We are expected to know a lot about aviation and that's where your videos really help. Thanks for doing them.
26:05 The Western artificial horizon is showing a RIGHT bank while the Soviet is showing a LEFT bank. I can see why he might have thought that the plane was level, but the angle between the background and the aircraft symbol should be the same in both versions.
yes, its an interesting video but the presenter has got the left Western one the wrong way round
I'm a bit confused why he made such a glaring mistake in the video. Having no experience in flying I found that section super confusing because the western meter visually made no sense to me. But I'm glad my instincts are right. I hope he fixes this
It took me a couple of minutes being dazzled at the instruments as I contemplated what the co-pilot may have been experiencing - then I resolved that confusion by realizing that the left AH indicator was a right bank as you stated .
I noticed this as well, as a non-pilot. Strange mistake to make by a pro while explaining the possible misinterpretation of the instrument. Or are we all mistaken? I'm confused.
@@viggotannhauser7251 We are right. A quick Google search proves that. The strange thing is that not many people noticed this in the comments. And certainly Mentor himself hasn't responded to the error.
The holes of the Swiss cheese model perfectly aligned.
@Gary Hochstetler don’t agree. Am afraid the chain of event (the aligned swiss cheese) could have happened with any pilot/company
@Gary Hochstetler Having an entry in the tech logbook isn’t unusual and doesn’t qualify the aircraft to be defective. But am just a private pilot thus mindful it might be different on commercial planes
@Gary Hochstetler In the video it is said that every time they reported it, the airvraft was brought in for repaors and they followed the recommendations from Airbus, that is lubricating the parts and changing the bearings. However, it looks like the problem would occur nevertheless. What else could they do ? They changed the entire part. They knew they weren't more knowledgeable than Airbus, so they followed what they said
Cheeeeessee Gromit lad
@Gary Hochstetler - The report seemed to leave out a critical cause of the crash which was, once again, a failure in an aircraft's automation initiated this whole sequence of events. Tasks pilots used to do are now automated and what used to be muscle memory is now lost. This crash would never have happened with a pilot moving those levers. A human brain would have immediately recognized a lever was sticking and compensated for it. A computer can only do what it's programmed to do, it doesn't have the capacity to think. So the engineers foolishly told the computer to keep pulling back on both levers until they both were at climb out power never even considering the possibility that they could go asymmetric. This was a disaster waiting to happen.
How do I know the engineers didn't consider the problem, I don't, but if you think about it why would you not monitor position sensors on the thrust levers and monitor other engine sensors to determine if you were going into asymmetric thrust and stop pulling on the dang thrust levers _and_ alert the pilots of the condition? There's two possibilities, 1) management overruled you do to TTM excuses, Boeing, or 2) you didn't think of it, Airbus.
Wait, 26:00 that doesn't look right. The artificial horizon in the actual simulator segments is turning the other way to what is shown here.
Yes it's wrong, as can be seen a just few seconds later in the video. This got me totally confused for a moment.
When I was in pilot training I had to practice accelerated stalls which always scared me, probably why my instructor made me do them so often. Once they start you need to act quickly. This video reminded me of those times. Thanks
Very sad to see that Captain was incapacitated and F/O didn't know what to do and calling his Captain. It's also very frightening that all passengers are screaming before crashed. It is the most deadly plane crash :(
RIP to all on board who died :(
Well, deadliest in Romania, not in the world.
Susie Q I know it's not the world's deadliest accident in the world.
But thanks for the Country name. Because I don't know which country it crashed. Thanks for that :)
Actually, the FO knew what to do, but unlike today's airlines where a pilot could fly 4 sectors with 4 different colleagues, at that time TAROM had 3 A310 aircrafts and not many pilots typerated for them, so, most likely, more than half of the FO's experience was acquired while flying alongside that captain. That man watched his best friend dying, and even if it was wrong, it was at least understandable for him to be a bit more concerned than in other cases.
Bogdan N Thank you sir for this. I understood the message.
@@CaptainJadenAR no problem man!
18:22
THE MEMORIAL OF THE VICTIMS OF BALOTESTI
At 31 march 1995 , at 08:08, the flight Tarom RO371 going to Brussels, with a plane Airbus A310-324, registered YR-LCC "Muntenia" crashed in the vicinity of this place. 60 people with different nationalities lost their lives in what was then the biggest aeronautic catastrophe in Romania.
The monument situated at the end of the alley was build in the memory of those who died then, and was renovated by volunteers in 2017.
Please keep the place clean.
It is amazing how you go above and beyond what the official reports cover - thank you for your efforts!
There is a letter from the French authorities appended to the Final Report which mentions the Eastern-Western horizon difference
As a person who has never flown an airplane, the Soviet artificial horizon makes slightly more sense to me, since it is, in fact, the airplane that tilts. But as you pointed out, it’s a matter of what you get used to. Thanks for this excellent video.
I think the opposite. The western system mimics where the horizon actually is. Superimpose the attitude indicator with the horizon and they are the same. It's like x-ray vision through the clouds or night and seeing where the horizon actually is. Same as heads up displays for fighter pilots.
The western one is more of a first person indicator, rather than a third person. Being inside the plane, and not behind it, the western one seems to make more sense.
@@kingsleykronkk3925 I agree with you. But conversely, I've always thought that the Soviets got it right with 'cosmonaut' and we got stuck with the not-exactly-accurate and inherently limiting 'astronaut', lol.
Same , it looks more intuitive way to see it than the west version 🙄
It's all relative... which is a statement which works in two ways in relation to this issue. :)
I was in highschool when this happened. I remember firefighters and policemen so devastated by what they saw at the crash site that were unable to speak coherently in front of the news cameras, some barely holding their tears. Years later in my residency I had the chance to talk to one of the first responders who came in as a patient, he still had nightmares about the event and I was shocked by his description (I won't go into the gruesome details, as there may be kids reading these comments).
I'm glad you covered this accident with your usual professionalism and attention to detail, the official investigation was kinda hushed up and the following public statements were rather brief and unsatisfactory. Many people felt a political cover-up, possibly regarding financial issues with the state hold airline, as less than an year prior to the accident there were some controversies about the acquisition and maintenance of those Airbus planes.
It's good for us to be reminded that first responders can be so traumatized by the terrible things they encounter. We owe them all the help we can give to deal with those traumas.
Further to my comments of 1 year ago, I would like to add the following:
Excellent point raised by Mentour Pilot: The F/O had in the region of 9,000 hours of which
approximately 95% was on Soviet made hardware. And then he pointed out the anomaly between
the A/H on Western airliners versus Soviet airliners.
I am unsure if this situation has been changed to 'one-standard' only, or if they still persist in having totally dissimilar readouts on major blind flying instruments!
I would like to know what the 2023 status is?
Further to that I would like to know what updates were made in crew training following the accident?
I remember at the tail-end of my career being invited to take part in a two ship delivery, from S. Africa to Minsk 1, Ukraine. An ex RAF chum and I went out and flew in the left seats as PIC for the simple reason the Soviet crew did not have international pilot licences. I remember quite vividly, trying to do something as simple as read the instruments. This was on CAVOK days.
Another case occurred in north-west Brazil in IFR conditions when the ATC guy was speaking to us in Portugese, and my copilot and I only shared English, Spanish and French. Suffice to say the ATC put us onto the ILS in cloud 30-seconds in front of landing traffic - we all survived of course. But given the International Language of aviation is ENGLISH, one wonders why such poor interpretation of the rules needs a major catastrophe before the rules are changed!
For today's young people thinking of joining the aloft-family, may i suggest you make a start as a glider pilot before embracing powered flight, and perhaps go on an instructors' course. Plenty of hands on experience and theoretical depth in all associated subjects could save your neck at some future disputed barricade . . .
Excellent analysis from Mentour Pilot, we would have been proud to have had you as part of our crew in the old days . . .
This is a fantastic series!
Though I am not a pilot, I am an Ergonomics Engineer and Human Factors Engineer. I did take ground school while in high school as a for-credit class a long while ago. I watch this series to hone my root cause analysis skills. Root cause analysis is a large part of creating design parameters for individual projects in ergonomics and human factors engineering. I am also preparing for chiropractic college. Root cause analysis is a major part of what chiropractic physicians do as primary care physicians. I am melding the two fields. Thus, I am very busy, but use my organizational time, filing paperwork, etc. to watch/listen to these videos. Thank you!
So interesting the way you explain what happened but so very sad to understand what they must have been through in the few minutes of this flight. R.I.P. to the crew and passengers that lost their lives so tragically.
Indeed 😥
@@MentourPilot I don't exactly understand something. It is a theory that he interpreted the horizon the opposite way, and it seems like it is an unsolved mystery. But why there isn't an answer to this in the recorded flight data that he turned into the wrong side?
I have actually watched a feature (Discovery, I guess) documentary about this flight and they inserted audio records, including the sounds made by the captain and the last few seconds of the flight (the terrified scream of the FO upon coming out of fog a few hundred meters above the impact site).
Also, in that documentary they touched on the difference between western and soviet dials, so Dimitri might've watched it too.
My father was there when it happened, he was being a soldier at that time, At Otopeni (Bucharest, a few kilos away). What he saw that day he will never forget. R.i.P. to all the victims.
It's impossible to describe how all-encompassing the disorientation is when you lose your visual horizon.
Basically, you can only appreciate the complete loss of control if you experience it yourself.
I understand how busy the FO was when the captain became incapacitated, but I kept wondering why there wasn't a quick call for a cabin crewmember to come to the cockpit, since the are normally trained for at least basic first aid. It might have helped the FO concentrate on flying.
Probably because it happened during take off. Pretty complicated to call a flight attendant as everyone would be strapped to their seats.
@@MAXIMUSMINIMALIST It didn't sound like there was one on this flight. Probably due to it being a smaller plane with fewer passengers maybe? If there had been one, they certainly would have stepped in, so it is pretty safe to assume there wasn't one.
Once the mind starts to panic, which probably would have happened once the pilot became incapacitated and the realization that he was responsible for flying this plane that he wasn't familiar enough with, that also was malfunctioning, it is very hard to think clearly or do anything other than focus on the panic. And the main cause of that panic is the pilot not being able to fly the plane. I imagine the FO wanted nothing more than for the pilot to take over, so that is where his tunnel vision probably was (when people panic, they tend to hyperfocus as well). There were a lot of factors at play here that this FO simply wasn't equipped to handle. I don't think many but the most experienced, veteran fliers, would be well equipped to handle them.
At 26:05 the Western artificial horizon is not drawn correctly for a left turn; it shows a right turn. Indeed it's easy to get confused...
It took me a couple of minutes being dazzled at the instruments as I contemplated what the co-pilot may have been experiencing - then I resolved that confusion by realizing that the left AH indicator was a right bank as you stated .
Beat me to it.
I also tried to report that. I’m surprised that the video is not corrected. How come mentour didn’t catch that ??
It is a perfect Swiss cheese model. Anything minor that could be happened, happened in this flight and a major accident occured. Sad. Great video!
Exactly.
Yes - and everyone of the minor failings was very seldom to happen, not to talk about alltogether.
I wouldn't call the incapacitation of the Captain a minor thing
@@KingoftheJuice18 Actually what i think is, for a 8.000+hour F/O it should be, if the incapacitation was the only problem
@@alpvv Uh, a man is having a heart attack two feet away from you--and he also was supposed to be helping you fly the plane? Sure, no biggie. SMH
As a non-pilot, I enjoy your presentations because they are so clear and easy to follow. After watching quite a number of yours and other presentations on flight mishaps, it is clear to me that the number one attribute of all members of a flight crew is situational awareness at all times. Now....I'm very curious to know and see some of the new training procedures being used as well as ways that potential flight crew candidates are accurately evaluated for their abilities to think under pressure.
This channel making me scared to ever fly again 😂😂😂
Yep
Yep
For me it is the other way around!
That's kinda silly. Try paying attention to how much detail he can tell these stories in. That's because of the details we can collect from these events to make flights safer. You'll notice a lot of these accidents are older, and major industry changes are made after almost every incident.
I don't know, watching these incidents and the changes made after, makes me feel a lot safer.
Also the millions of flights per a incident, means flying is safer than most things you do daily. Flying is a million times safer than driving.
1 in 101 chances of dying in a car collision, vs 1 in 3650000 of dying in a plane wreck.
I remember many years ago when I first got interested in aviation accidents the crash investigator said something that has always stuck with me and it was that the pilots job first and foremost was to fly the aircraft and unfortunately so many accidents happen because the pilot forgets that and gets distracted, if the first officer had followed that principle then this could have been averted but he got distracted with what happened to the captain , thoroughly enjoyed your post and looking forward to the next one
Yes, thank you
Flying while trying to figure out whether the ill pilot caused a configuration change is not practiced in training. This extreme coincidence occupied a massive percentage of brain capacity trying to see if his hands or feet were affecting any controls….
@@jeffstillwell6802 No button or switch to hit which would completely take all control over by the copilot no matter what (on his side) the pilot was touching?
This is SUCH a good series. Thanks.
Glad you find it interesting!
Isn’t it just. For me the best Aviation channel you RUclips👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I agree. The fact that it’s coming from a pilot and his knowledge is very different from all the other aircraft accident investigation channels.
@@Maxfli82 He also doesn't treat us like we're idiots. I like that he uses technical information and more complicated language than the "accessible" TV shows. To me, the only thing I miss about those shows is the interviews with the people involved.
Like seconds from disaster or air crash investigation, but straight to the point, the survivor interviews are interesting sometimes, but all the re-enactments with bad actors are terrible.
I was a student pilot years ago. Life happens, so I never finished my training. With that said, your content is great. I can't get enough of your videos. Thank you again.
As a Romanian I remember hearing of this back in the day and I've always wondered what happened.
We don't have so many serious air accidents so this was and still is one of the most memorable.
Many years ago, while flying night freight in an aerocommandor 500. While turning to a new heading, the autopilot circuit breaker tripped. I had just departed the airport under IFR conditions. The external sounds drew my attention back to the instrument panel. The aircraft was in an a 60 degree bank with a 30 degree nose down attitude, with no outside visual reference. It took unbelievable decipline to ignore my sensations while recovering to straight and level flight.
Gordon, well done. Good on the job training, as some crusty old Chief Pilot might have said when you reported the issue later.
Wow
Wait, when the aircraft banks to 60 degrees, nose down 30º, cant you feel it? Like, how you usually feel a banking as passenger? Cant you feel the movement and how gravity isnt keeping you on your seat?
@@glockmat That's right. Departure on rnwy 09 in BOS on a moonless night made a believer out of me.
@@glockmat no you can't feel it. There are so many factors involved, whether you're climbing or descending rolling or descending and rolling. You can be flying down to the ground but if you are also pulling back on the elevator you're going to feel a pressure on your senses like you're actually climbing
I think the captain might have been partially incapacitated earlier on, changing the FMC to go direct to a fix already in the flight plan is very simple, It's about 3 button presses and should go very quickly if I'm correct. If the captain was starting to get incapacitated at this time he might have problems with it and it would take longer. (stroke or similar) This would also explain the lower perceptive and cognitive functions required to remember and notice the differential thrust. Just some thoughts
That’s a great observation. The major issues in the past with the thrust levers where ignored. When that should have been the captains main concern.
Could certainly be. I tend to think it was a heart attack… usually there’s a minute or two of mounting pain or disorientation that you can ignore at first, but slowly degrades you until the real, sudden shock hits. What happens then is highly variable, but it’s completely possible to grunt once and fall over, unconscious.
@@BradBo1140Yeah but he was working on the navigation input, so he wouldn't notice until he got it done.
@@obitouchiha4739 isn’t the module like right next to the thrust? My question is how can you not see it even if you are working on that different system, I feel like peripheral would catch it easy. Just a thought, I have zero experience so just if anyone has an answer please let me know.
@@Aquasliph That was exactly the point of OP's comment: that if the captain was already starting to become incapacitated because of, say, a beginning stroke (but before it _really_ hits) when he was working on the navigation system, that might help to explain why he didn't notice the position of the thrust levers.
The amount of research going into this investigation is astounding. Thank you!!
New subscriber here!
I’ve gotten down the rabbit hole of aviation stories lately and have binge-watched countless videos like yours. But I’m really impressed at how well-made your video and I can truly feel your passion for aviation just by hearing you talk!
Thanks for making these videos, can’t wait to see more :)
My Brother should have been on this flight to Brussel, but a last minute call, made him to cancel his ticket. After the plane was anounced as crashed in Balotesti my Brother and us, realised what a lucky coincidence it was to get that call that made him cancel that flight to Brussel. Anyway,it was a verry sad incident that shouldn't happen. R.I.P. to the one's that died on the crash. Thank you @MENTOUR PILOT for the great content's of youre video's.
reason it takes a year or two to write up these MoT reports is that the experts would like to firmly know how this can teach the flying public how to be safer persons in the aviation community, such as technical and service improvements.
I always wonderee about these things. There is a very real possibility thins crash would never have happened had he got on that flight.
Events would have occured differently at the airport due to luggage and weight calculation, delays etc. The pilot may have been crook before or after or not at all.
A butterfly in America could technically cause a tsunami in Japan if it were to make one single change.
@@michaelthompson9548 Exactly. Accidents take so many unlikely factors to occur, it's possible that a seemingly trivial change might have made the difference that would prevent it from happening at all. (For example, if the plane had been held up for a minute or two by a passenger slow to board, the captain might have suffered his heart attack before the takeoff roll.) We will never know.
I feel for you. My wife and I had reservations on Pan Am 103. We missed it because I had a last minute work commitment. and had to re-schedule.
@@michaelthompson9548 Certainly not, poetic speculative malarkey.
That point Dimitri made was a VERY good one. Looking at it, you can see how a quick decision in the wrong direction would have been fatal
This is a rare case where I must take exception to something in Mentour Pilot's presentation:
First point: In the all-important Western/Soviet comparison at 26:04, the left-side graphic is simply wrong. The left-side circle needs to be tilted in the clockwise direction, not in the counterclockwise direction; only then would it match what is shown for the right-side (Soviet-style) graphic. (@WJS points this out too, noting that the tilt is shown correctly in the screen shots of the simulator, e.g. at 24:15].)
Second point: With the graphics for 26:04 corrected, we would see that the Western and Soviet versions of an artificial horizon are only subtly different, not different in the sense of 'opposites.' (In fact, they are really the same: Draw them on a piece of paper, cut one out and rotate it until it aligns with the other: then you'll see that the two pictures are identical; it's just that one is rotated relative to the other.) Therefore, the idea that the FO probably tried to do the 'opposite' of what was needed, because he, in his understandable panic, reverted to the Soviet design, simply doesn't work. For either of the two conventions, Western or Soviet, the picture's message about "how to fix the aircraft's situation" is the same.
Side issue: @Lisa Schuster, I agree, the Soviet design makes more sense. In response to her, several remarked that the Western design seems more 'intuitive'. What those people advocate, apparently, is for the pilot to enjoy a ME-ME-ME viewpoint. That's ludicrous. What matters is how the aircraft is oriented relative to the ground, not "How the tilted horizon out there looks to ME" or, in clouds, "How the tilted horizon would look to ME."
I've seen other videos about this accident, but this is the best one by far. I learned so many new details. As soon as you mentioned the co-pilot's experience in the beginning of the video, I thought about the attitude indicator differences.
When you got to Chapter 9, it started sounding vaguely familiar but I could not remember which accident. But thanks to your thorough approach, I got my answer - I was indeed thinking about that Crossair crash. Shoutout to your awesome Patreon for giving you that piece of the puzzle.
Another great video. I really appreciate your factual, non-sensationalized approach. It's very respectful to the crew, passengers, and families left behind.
At 26:05, western attitude indicator actually shows 53 degree RIGHT bank angle, as opposed to the description in the video. The differences between Western and Soviet built PFDs You describe are correct, however, the graphics is wrong. It's still possible that your theory about copilot's confusion is correct, though. Despite that, very great video! Keep up the good work.
Thank you. I agree 100% with you
I agree too.
Clearly.
Yup... doesn't matter whether the horizon moves or the little plane moves, they would look the same relative to each other on either bank... could be that the pilot was confused, but this explanation is not quite correct.
I remember this very well. This flight went down the day before I went to India for the first time. The day after the incident on 1st April, I flew to New DelhiI on a Tarom flight, via Bucharest. It was supposed to be a standard 3 or 4 hour transit at Bucharest. When we got to Bucharest, we learnt that all flights were grounded and we were to stay in a hotel overnight in the city. It was upsetting knowing that we flying with aircrew who has lost friends and colleagues the day before.
I'm Romanian and I've flown Tarom on many occasions, but I never knew about this
Love how you explain things so clearly I feel as if I could fly a big plane after watching your videos. I’ve never even flew a kite
In training, does your copilot ever randomly pretend to have a heart attack to freak you out? Or is it always prewarned?
It’s never pre-warned. We can tell any pilot, through their headset, to act dead at any time.
@@MentourPilot Nice. Didn't know this kind of training was a thing. Do you train cases when a pilot lands on the yoke and pushes it forward or backwards? Ho would you handle that?
@@MentourPilot Ok, followup: how good is their acting? Is there a risk that you will get out of your chair and start calling for an ambulance?
Not sure how to feel about that. What if in the simulator one of the pilots becomes incapacitated for real? Then the help for the incapacitated pilot is delayed without necessity.
I imagine that the possibility of it happening for real at the exact same moment that the crew commands it through the headset is miniscule. If someone acts dead without being asked to the people behind the scenes will probably act upon it soon enough as they know they didn't command it.
Mentor, there is another person that does an excellent job on animation of aircraft accidents but he lacks a real airline pilot with a wealth of knowledge as yourself. How you explain these accidents is just fantastic!! Thank you very much!
I have been on a binge lately, watching your videos nonstop. I’m a mechanic in a regional in the US and find myself enjoying your attention to detail in your videos.
Thank you for all the time you have vested into these.
I will not admit I binge watch your videos. Maybe I do or maybe I do. One thing is certain. A person turning their passion into a valuable, err priceless community has been accomplished here. You are such a brilliant and competent man. Your ability to teach, speak, explain, and mentor is top notch…and you can fly CA? Mind blowing. This is what happens when passion and skill are perfectly aligned. Millions gather.
I can just imagine the terror these pilots go through in those last few seconds when they realise this flight is doomed
One pilot might have, the other was likely incapacitated, to what degree no one will ever know.
I will always remember this - My father was flying back to Otopeni that very day and we went to pick him up. We had heard about a plane crash but didn't know details (departing or arriving), so we went in with lots of fear. Only when we saw him coming up on the corridor did we finally feel relief.
Definitely earned my subscription. I’m an aviation buff. Retired from the Firefighter/Paramedic. I always had an internet in aviation incidents. Mainly because of the chain of errors that have to occur for a crash to occur. The take away for me is everything is important. Everything matters and when things go bad they go bad quickly.
Hi, i have just watched two of your videos dealing with engine problems at what is a very early point of the flights.
These were both informative and although dealing with complex problems in both instances.
I was more than surprised that nobody from the passengers involved made mention as to what the saw.
I find this to be a more than common outcome, i think because the general feeling that the pilot knows everything regardless of weather or not ne does.
I live in Australia, and having spent a month visiting family in the U.K, was now on my way home to Australia Perth.
I was flying with Singapore airlines on a 747, as we sat at the gate while everyone got on the plane and the cargo was still being loaded i noticed that this flight was a completely full to the brim in every sence of the word.Looking around me i realized that every seat was taken and sitting in thecsecond seat in from the window, i did not have to do very much to be able to watch the cargo being put on board, this was still going on even after all passengers were on board, so heavy was an understatement.
The loading complete we got pushed back and then spent a long time it seemed going for what looked like a guided tour of Heathro. When we got to the entry to the runway, clearly the flight crew we told to hold, and things must have been a little busy on tevflight deck because i noticed that the plane had gone wide at the turn proir to stopping, to allow a plane in front of us went down the runway.
Weather or not something came off the plane tnat had just taken off, or we picked something up that was right on the edge of the runway.
However, we turned onto the runway, stopped and went to full sngine power and let go of the brakes, as we got very very close to unstick speed there was a very slight bump, but i could see through the full flaps and was looking at part of the undercarriage when this bump happened and what i saw was a very bright flash just as the plane left the ground.
The young lady sitting right along side the window, it wa the first time she had been on a plane and she was clearly rather frightened at just flying, she also saw the flash with a very whitened face asking me did you see that,
I asured her i had, and weather or not what ever it was we picked up had freed itself and been thrown into the wheel bay and cut wiring, i dont know.
However, the plane contiued to climb the flaps were slowly being retracted and the gear was pulled up, so what ever had happened, it seemed was not a problem and we were on our way home with one stop at Singapore then on to Perth Western Australia.
I did call one of the cabin crew, trying very much to keep my voice down so as not to frighten tbe young lady who had clearly had enough surprised for one day.
They asked me to go with them to the galley were i could talk freely and I told them what i saw and weather or not i could say for certain just what it was, i explained that we had come very close to the left actually leaving the tarmac, and it seemed we had picked up something from the ground, that had slowly embeded itself into the tyre, and that tbe flash had come from what looked like the wheel well, this was related to the flight deck, but we continued to carry on the flight to Singapore.
On arrival at Singapore i saw something that beggered belief, the pilot, clearly talking to the control tower there exstended the flaps to fully down and with nose up flew the slowest i have seen for a plane that size, we flew round three times while clearly someone was filming from the tower, then tgevpassengers were told that the left undercarriage had exploded a tyre and that there were damaged items in the wheel well, so would we kindly go to a brace position while they landed, they did a perfect landing which at the very last minute became a little rough, it turned out that the damage was such that they had to ground that plane so e all left via a set of stairs bought out to the plane to buses to take us to the airport building. I did stop on my way down to have a look at what had happened.
The wheel bogie had been covered with a tarp but was not pulled over enough to stop people intent on seeing, just what had happened, the outer tyre was non existent, there were scares on the suspension ram where bits of metal had hit it, plus damage to the other tyre.
Something i will never forget, because i had in fact been useful for a change.
I think the young lady had been put off flying for quite a while after that and nobody was quicker at getting down those stairs as she was!!!!!
Very interesting. I’ve flown in and out if Bucharest. We absolutely love Romania ❤️
Awww ☺️
Well Sir, you can keep it ! 🤣 when i leave i shall make sure to light a cigar with my passport.
@@MrAlpinab7 what's your problem dude?
I am not other than a casual FS2020 pilot and I always have had interpretation difficulties with the virtual horizon instrument and as you brought this item that it is different in Russian airplanes I immediately understood what the airplane was by looking to the VH(Russian way). So this should be in all training a very important point when a pilot with Russian system experience to turn over the brain to the other situation! BTW excellent explanations about these accidents. Even better than the very detailed documentaries of Geographic Channel! There might be this other thing in the cockpit where the copilot(now being 1st officer) does not dare to correct the captain's responsibilities and did not look after the throttle, because this was clearly put into the hands of the captain.
Awesome as always. I’m not a pilot but a year ago or so I was bored and RUclips looking for something to watch and came across the story of how Doug White landed the plane he and his family were on. It was such an interesting story that I began to look for aviation videos and the ones I watched at first didn’t go into much detail so I would feel like I didn’t have closure like you on this video I just watched. Eventually I came across a video of yours and I’ve been a big fan ever since! You are so good at breaking things down and explaining the parts of the story that we need so we can follow it better. I love all of your content but my favorite aviation stories are the ones that have a happy ending and everyone survives. Like Scully landing in the Hudson River and the gentleman that lost all engines when they flew over the volcano and flew longer than anyone ever has without any engines and did it with a safe landing. I know you have good stories on here and I’d love to see more of those of you can find any. I’ve learned so much by watching you that I feel like I can fly a plane right now….😬✈️