Medic Who Helped Prosecute Lucy Letby Says Clinical Staff Are Bullied For Standing Up To Management
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- “There Is Bullying And Intimidation Of Clinical Staff!” Says Trial Prosecution Lead Medical Expert On Lucy Letby case
Dr Dewi Evans discusses with Julia Hartley-Brewer the Lucy Letby case and the challenges clinical staff face when flagging issues with NHS management.
Lucy Letby is being sentenced today and families will be sharing how her actions have impacted them.
Dr Dewi has suggested that government policy is a contributing factor as to why there is a struggle to flag up issues.
He adds: “There is bullying and intimidation of clinical staff that stand up to management.”
#LucyLetby #NHS #TalkTV
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Sack, arrest and charge all those who ignored the warnings, did nothing and contributed to the deaths of innocent babies.
And let the families sue so these inept Managers cannot live their retirement in luxury.
They need to sue the INDIVIDUALS, not the NHS.@@cazfloss1990
As a citizen, is it not our duty to inform the police if we suspect a murder, or is passing the responsibility to someone else the "thing to do"?
Either they didn't really think she was killing them or they really are spineless doctors who didn't have the balls to go to the police, because you can't really think she was killing them without going to the police, unless you are psychologically deranged yourself, or you are just as bad as the management, and don't want to risk your bottom line.
So what was it doctors?
The elitists will protect their own. @@cazfloss1990
@@robinhood4640 The doctors who reported this through the correct channels are deranged and spineless? You’re nice!
Same with our governments. They all forget they are public servants, not dictators.
Exactly! They work for the taxpayer who pays their bloody salaries!
No one in NHS or private medical field concern that for such young people,in their 20s,this huge IC unit is MAYBE too much too early? she just jumped being Nurse shift Manager in 1-2 years on duty. I would never name Chief of nurses a 20+yo just graduater. It needs to be someone who worked over 7-10 years in hospital with real REFERENCES,no nepotism or some manager lover.But quick money,love affairs and low quality service go extraordinary hand in hand today.
Management even made doctors apologize to her. Management is vicious in any institution.
Vicious is the word. They should be on trial as well.
They forget who actually has the skills to make a workplace go round. It's not the managers usually.
And its only when they had to apologize to Lucy that they went to the police. Would they have gone to the police if Lucy had never filed a complaint against them which was upheld?
I am an RN and can attest to the fact that nurses once they cross over into management and administrative positions become extremely threatening and abusive to staff nurses. Their job is to protect the CEOs and administration. I wish nurses would realize that nurse managers that turn a blind eye to staff bullying and patient endangerment are legally responsible and can be charged. If you are a member of the public Never Fear the hospital staff. REPORT nurses and doctors to their licensing bodies, complain to Patient Relations, go to the media. If you want to see staff jump just tell those will be your next moves.
Good advice.
I agree to disagree in this case it is rather ‘White Privilege syndrome ‘which seems endemic in NHS as per my experience. Really sorry for the bereaved family.
@@louisenayon4171 This isn't about race. If your face fits in the NHS (regardless of your race) you can pretty much get away with murder, as we have seen. If Lucy Letby had been not white, people would be squealing that she got away with it in case the race card got pulled
I did that once, but over here we call them Patient Advocates. I was very upset by my treatment by my new doctor, and tried discussing it with her, but she was dismissive, so i called the P.A., and she was On It, and resolved the problem.
@@louisenayon4171Wait a minute, are you suggesting that non-white people don't receive the same level of care as the white patients? If so, I wonder what your attitude is in hospitals. Do you go in ready to fight? Do you go in with chips on your shoulders? Are you the patient who forgets to say thankyou to the catering staff who give you breakfast, lunch and dinner, along with water, tea, coffee etc? Are you the one who criticises everything? I only ask becausd I've encountered many patients like that. I always feel sorry for the staff.
Try leaving your shoulder chips at home if you are hospitalised. Believe me when I receive excellent treatment and friendly faces.
I worked in the NHS 40 years and a concerted effort was made to bully me out for reporting shortfalls in a clinic. The bullying increased when a patient was killed as a result of the problems in the clinic. I was not called to the Coroner's Court and press reports failed to mention any of the issues so I have always suspected that the court was mislead.
Misled.
I work in the NHS and every single small suggestion for improvement that I have made has been met with a smile and told it's a good idea, yet not one of them implemented! So don't expect major things to happen. But make sure correct pronouns are used!
To my misfortune I have spent time in Hospital 2 times last 4 years yes in the new flu called corvid/SARS
pain in chest like a dagger when I took my in halers Asthma Copd
on phone mad doc double ya meds ??
middle night I drove to hospital was 2 am not many in I started going odd anyway they grabbed me doc tested me and said Mr Ashy dont move??
Me why you have a blood clot on ya lungs they got me better full marks
but it was hot i was by window probably the meds made me warm up
I took al me clothes of and had a towel down there I was wafing my self with a lump or cardboard
Nurse Mr Ash what you doing COOKING get a fan please nurse you cannot have a fan it will send corvid round hospital?? Nurse you testing all us every day no one has IT next morning we toilet in ward no mask cross 6 foot corridor mask on toilet mask OFF 6 ft corridor mask on ward mask off
This, yes.
It’s a judeo masonic organisation. Most senior management and consultants worship at masonic temples. They are jewish puppets and have to promote anti white and anti Christian agendas to advance their careers. That’s why they promote lgbt, transhumanist pronouns, ‘White ally’ programmes to normalise calling all White people racist and the biggest agenda is promoting one world religion so they congratulate all religious holidays to all staff and call Christians to pray with a muslim imam
@@ashwayn lol
Put the managers in jail for manslaughter and criminal negligence!
NO its Evans, Brearey, Jayaram, Dr B?, Gibbs et al who need to be prosecuted.
Hats off to the presenter and the pediatrician who are clear that the managers have ruined the NHS . In this case the management must be charged with full force of law
To make sure lesson learnt
What has gone on concerning these managers makes my blood boil. These people MUST be held to account, what the hell kind of message are we sending out if they are not
What makes my blood boil is that an innocent nurse is in prison for crimes she didn't commit
Definitely true. I stood up to management who were not following the Trust Policy, and was beaten to a more senior position by a member of staff who had zero experience in the particular field, and zero qualification in the field. Experience has since shown that staff member is also not competent in key areas but will follow instructions from above without question, regardless of any policies or laws being broken.
Exactly what they're looking for,
Useful idiots.
Thank You for Sharing! I ,was squeezed out of my position at the Mayo Clinic for choosing the high/ right road! God ✨provided me with a better position elsewhere!
I work in long-term care in Canada and my experience is management is: 1) scared of the unions 2) scared of anything getting out to the public that would tarnish their or the home's reputation, 3) understaffed and overwhelmed so they can't be bothered creating more work for themselves. They will excuse and cover up truly heinous things just to make their lives easier.
In Canada nurses and doctors can be reported to their licensing bodies. For example, The College of Nurses of Ontario state that it is the nurses legal responsibility to protect the patient. If YOU, yes YOU are NOT reporting what you have witnessed YOU could be Held Liable. I am NOT in the least bit afraid of management or the Ontario Nurses Association and as an RN have tackled both.
I was thinking just that - I think nurses are better protected in many ways, than doctors.
In some ways that's understandable, because they get less pay and status than doctors, but no staff member's reputation or feelings should be put before patient safety.
There should be a blanket policy of investigating throughly any serious allegations made against any staff member, and involving the police the minute an allegation of murder is made.
The unions and managers are long time enemies because the unions stand up for the workers and the managers stand up for the bosses
How deplorable the management has become. They need a complete overhaul.
Non of them went to the police. Should be jail for the whole "TEAM".
Vulture culture, narcissists thrive in the institution. All the good nurses leave.
💯💯💯
I’m an ex-nurse and soooo true
Such a sad culture been going on for years my mom's worked for nhs for 40years experienced the worst bullying throughout don't know how she put up with it takes a very strong person! I know I couldn't and would most likely leave also.
Good to hear the honesty from Dr. Dewi Evans. Nurse Letby should have been stopped long ago.
What should Nurse Lucy Letby been stopped for? The babies she was supposed to have murdered had post mortems and were found to have died from natural causes. There were 10 other deaths over the same time that they couldn't pin on Lucy.
This is horrible enough (babies murdered in front of their eyes) not to also penalise hospital management. I read some of them got more than a million pounds pension of public money, that is a shame. There must be some accountability.
The most disturbing thing is she looks like a normal everyday woman you could trust.
It's not a shame it is a catastrophe - nil consequences for those who in effect abetted incompetence on a grand scale - it begs the question is this the only hospital where this practice of 'cover-up' is perpetuated.?
Not making excuses for her but you say murdered right in front of their eyes in fact she was never caught in the act she was found guilty of the fact she was on that ward on shift when those babies died a good take on the case is daily mail following of the trial both prosecution and defence you can't find Lucy letbys defence if you search it think a public enquiry is needed
Incidentally that pension they got they paid for it's not public money but there should be consequences
@@oseasviewer7108 Absolutely not. It happens in EVERY hospital
As a retired nurse, iv'e seen a fair share of management incompetance over the years. But, what I will never comprehend is how incompetance is rewarded with a sideways move to manage another area and not being down graded to a lower management level until the person is competent.
i know of one general manager who had to organise extra doctor lead outpatient clinics (on a weekly basis, to enable new patients to be seen fron GP referrals) NOt very easy for this manager to do, he always contacted the office admin staff to fill the clinics with new patient referrals, but often omitted to inform the medical secretaries of the need for a doctor to supervise them. Hence, the nurse running the clininc was left to sort out the mess -me. Even speaking to him-he did not want to come to sort it out. he is the cheif executive of the trust now.
Yeah this goes beyond this one case and beyond the nhs as well. There is an incompetence the likes of which i cant comprehend. I am a cleaner and yet ive been in hospitals with my mom over the years where doctors have told me complete nonsense like vitmin k injection is optional bevause baby can make it in their skin (no thats vit d);been told by an orthopeadic nurse my mom didnt breakbher femur that she broke her hip and when i asked do you mean she broke her pelvis or her femeral bone? She didnt know what i meant and kept saying hip bone hip bone and i had to say did she break her middle of her hips in her body or her lag part. She said middle. It was in fact a femoral neck fracture. All of which i picked up from the posters in the hallway while i waited to see my mom but an orthopedic nurse didnt know theres no such thing as a hip bone. My mom was at another hospital for months and every day she would ring me to bring her water to take her bs to bring her food coa they kept forgetting to give her water or her duabetic diet or forget to take bloods .. they wouldnt help her on the toilet and the toilet room had a big shower that people coulsnt wheel over. The woman next door had shattered her leggs in multiple places and she had to walk to the toilet because of the shower ..on an ortho ward... every day there were about three stupid mistakes ...doing the pb wrong and brusiing her arm horrifically leaving meds for othwr patients lying around eve. Syrynges lying around in her room. Leaving vomit basins lying around on a closed ward ..one day theyd have the apron and closed doors for the wuarantine she was on another nuurse would come along open the door and not bither with gloves or apron or anything. It was mayhem. I never saw the " ward manager. Nor the same nurse twice. Nor the same doctor. Its chaos. Nobody tajes repsonsibility. There wass no patient laiason no complaint line..a number with a phone that just rang and rang in an empty office. I could have killed somone in there and nobody would have noticed.
What a total mess. I want to know how he got there in the 1st place.
I work in the private sector and managers are so corrupt, they keep covering for each other and when someone is found guilty of something they pile up on the one who raised the problem and promote the corrupt one reshuffling them in the organisation. They are especially scared if the guilty and corrupt person is not white because that also opens a can of worms.
Toxic narcissistic at the top..
I'm so happy you said this. They get rewarded for putting patient safety at risk time and time again as long as their 'targets' are met.
Absolutely agree. Managers should be accountable to the surgeons and not the other way around. You’re not allowed to speak up about patient care concerns because you get accused of bullying. Disgustingly negligent people are held to a lower standard because they’re feelings get hurt if you expect them to do their job right. These doctors had concerns but management shut them up and shut them down and accused them of “bullying “.
Management should be prosecuted for bullying and lose their jobs because let’s be fair they are not fit for purpose and in this case they have blood on their hands.
Management in the NHS are for saving money, not for saving lives.
Start putting some of them in jail for corporate manslaughter, that soon get them acting in the patients interests.
I Agree! They should be charged with negligence at least.
NHS managers should have to take the Hypocratic path if they're to manage a Healthcare facility. The three who were most guilty of ignoring warnings in this case should have their massive pensions rescinded. They too have blood on their hands.
Indeed ! and it should be made known clearly to them that it is a hospital they are running and not a business !!!!
Why would any physician in their right mind want to work for the NHS?!?!? A wholesale change in NHS management and oversight MUST occur NOW.
That's why thousands of NHS doctors, like my daughter, have gone to work in Australia.
@@ShazWag i am leaving for America god willing, pray for me
I think most people who have been called whistleblowers know the consequences. You're immediately made to be wrong, labelled a disruptive non team player and life at work becomes really awful. That this happened in the NHS when babies were dying is abhorrent.
I agree
Yes we get in trouble for reporting these things, it is really awful.
I agree that managers should be accountable to clinical staff. However, manager salaries are outrageously high and it often attracts people who feel entitled.
The management actually use their grievance processes as a tool, the outcomes always suit them and they chose who to appoint to carry them out. I used a Scottish health boards whistleblowing policy (D&G) due to staff bullying and incompetence of a senior clinician who was obviously mentally ill. The board basically ignored it and sided with the incompetent manager, despite her having a history of patients commiting suicide on her watch. The problem is many of the times the people being complained about are the management who investigate themselves.
Omg that's awful. When will this end, it's appalling
Why wasnt the first unexpected death a coroners case? Here in hospital in Ontario, any unexpected death is deemed a coroners case, with an examination of the circumstances of that death?
Great question. I wonder too.
Ditch the "management" BRING BACK MATRONS
All the Directorship from Chief Executive to Head of Nursing should be sacked from theor existing roles and made to immediately face corporate manslaughter charge and forced to give up 20% of earned income during this period of tragedy and given to the parents. They authorised Lucy Letby's continuation of tyranny.
"Police fear she may have attacked 30 more babies."
Speechless...
I can’t believe management would not listen to doctors who were concerned about this nurse. It’s bad enough they don’t listen to other staff members but to not listed to a pediatrician that has been working for 30 years. To make matters worse the doctors had to write an apology or lose their license. What medical training do the managers have to question physicians. At least investigate or use cameras to watch the suspect. I agree all those that knew about Lucy and did nothing should be held responsible. Because of them she was allowed to keep killing innocent babies.
Bullies are everywhere in life.
The bullying managers who facilitated the murder of tiny, vulnerable humans should absolutely face charges themselves or at the very least, be sacked. That is the only way that management will clean up its act and put patient safety above everything else.
Dared to complain about patient safety to managers resulting in months of bullying and lies against me, resigned with 30 years of nursing experience. This toxic culture has been happening for decades and even the unions and licensing boards are now doing the same , they only want your payments with little in return.
If i felt that was happening and told mangers and they told me to be quite i would contact the police myself
It is inconceivable that NHS management should be without regulatory bodies and disciplinary procedures. They should never have that kind of power.
The NHS is full of bullies and incompetence. Clap for a waste of money. Your money.
One of the scariest interviews I've ever listened to. What chance do patients and their families have when something goes horribly wrong? Medical staff are encouraged not to say anything or they will likely lose their jobs.
The hospital managers and directors in this case should lose their jobs as a lesson to others who allow this status quo.
Innocent people die everyday in a lot of ways for different reasons, but policy shouldn't be one
totally not surprise such bad management could resort to bullying.
The parents must sue the hospital to get justice for their children and prevent same thing happened in future.
My sister was murdered in King George Hospital , Ilford. My sister who was an NHS nurse working in Birmingham was in London with us on vacation; she developed a cold and we suspected it was pneumonia. At king George hospital, they gave her Morphine 5.0 ml instead of 0.5ml. As a trained AMerican I was there one askin g for Narcan to be given. They did not give any, instead refused to allow us take her to a private hospital and instead gave her additional . They threatened to call the police if we took our comatous sister to another hospital. She died after 3 days in that hospital.
I am very sorry for your sister, you and your family.
The circumstances of your sister’s death is horrific.
The staff and management at the hospital were criminally responsible for your sister’s death. They should be sacked and charged.
@@jchur7128 Thank you. Their system is so corrupt they cant even acknowledge their wrongdoings.
VASTLY OVERPAID MANAGMENT SHOULD BE PROSECUTED ENABLING THE MURDERESS
THE NHS IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
NURSES DEEM THEMSELVES TO BE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOCTORS
AND CCTV SHOULD BE IN EVERY SINGLE WARD
NO PARENT WILL BE HAPPY FOR THEIR CHILD TO BE ON A WARD WITH OUT IT!
THE VALIANT DOCTORS DESERVE AN APPOLOGY
FOR THE DISRESPECT AND DISTRESS THEY HAD TO ENDURE
NURSES ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT AS TGEY THINK THEY ARE!
Some form of punishment would make those vultures pay for their apathy.
Well said
There needs to be a investigation into the incompetence of the management and they should be fired if found that other nurses tried to report her
Both Doctors & nurses were suspicious of the deaths that occurred...and put together the common denominator was Lucy L EVERY time. Their concerns were relayed to management by at least 2 senior doctors with loads of experience. They sent emails & called for meetings & investigations over many months. The managers kept coming up with excuses as to why they weren't doing anything...or putting the doctors off..sayng they were doing something when they were not. IMO they have blood on their hands. Not the whistleblowers, but the managers whose job it is to investigate and/or report to the police. The doctors were likely already understaffed & overwhelemed helping patients get better, and saving lives. It was their duty to report their concerns...it was the administrators job to take the concerns seriously and DO SOMETHING.
JHB owes the managers an apology, not that they are totally innocent because they acquiesced with the consultants in the end.
My daughter found this to be commonplace when she was an NHS doctor. She's since moved overseas to work under a better healthcare system. NHS doctors' concerns are not listened to by the overpaid hospital management. Instead, they attempt to blame doctors when something goes wrong. Many nurses also don't listen to doctors' instructions (not all of course, but many). Doctors should have equal weighting, if not more, on the decision-making - especially as they're the experts on patient care and outcome - not management. Instead, they're afraid to complain as their careers are threatened. The managers who dismissed *seven* consultants' serious concerns regarding _Lucifer_ Letby should also be charged. They're also guilty!
They should be charged as accomplices for not doing anything.
It's beyond comprehension how a person we trust can bring about such distress. My heart aches for the families involved; may this verdict offer them a hint of relief and justice. 🙏
-
"Life is a train with no return journey. From a small bed when we were born to a small box when we leave the world, we can take nothing away. What we enjoy is just a process. In this process, nothing can be kept. Therefore, we must learn to overcome troubles and abandon attachments. In this world, we need to be enlightened from the heart, to change ourselves, to see through quickly, and to be enlightened. Many people can't let go of their attachments throughout their lives: "This is mine, that's mine." In the end, there is nothing left. To overcome your own desires, you will not regret tomorrow." - Guan Yin Citta Dharma Door Master Lu
No law, no court will ease their pain, let alone bring the babies back to life...😰
You cannot have overpromoted, nurses ruling over doctors. Nurses simply do not have the depth of clinical knowledge.
A lot of the managers don't necessarily have nursing backgrounds
@@lindarock4526 Nor do they have management backgrounds.
A good departmental manager does not have to be an expert on whatever the department do. They have qualified staff for that. A manager needs an MBA, bCom etc and HR qualifications. Doctors can obtain those qualifications and run a very good department. Nurses can never manage doctors just like technicians can never manage engineers, and we see the result now.
I have learnt this fact the hard way both as a qualified worker under inadequate managment and as an under qualified manager.
Well done Thatcherism for creating the managerial class (often non clinical) who rule the NHS.
"One of us" is the key phrase. Good people get Bullied in work, and cant get nothing done. Once a bad person, or "One of us"! Is bullied, they are right there.
We need to know what is going to happen with the management . This is really important to our society.
The managers should also go to prison
Bullying is worse in health than any other industry. Management never do anything as they are so scared about their own jobs and couldn't care less about others. Many of the nurses I know understand empathy from a text book
She should be in court I remember this case and I live in America, and in our Justice system, criminal at all, it's always in court.
I agree! She must be in court. It's ridiculous! They should force her to sit through it.
Who are the managers at the hospital? They should be publicly identified. They are incompetent at best and outright dangerous.
they have been and given brief media interviews, then scarpered.
I've worked for the NHS, and I've seen the corruption first hand. Lessons will not be learnt, managers will be sacked, then others employed that care only about the positive numbers and making the hospital look good again, whilst doing the bidding of Managing Directors and everyone higher on the chain. This is barely ever spoken about, and people wonder why doctors and nurses are striking. It's the every day workers that do their best and want to stick to laws and rules that truly care but are always penalised, sacked or moved.
It’s disappointing that she can get away with not attending the courtroom. What a cowardly action on her part. I hope it affects her sentencing and the rest of her life in prison.
Fear of getting bullied doesnt wash with me.
Arent these grown adults? Problem is most of these staff come from university backgrounds with no balls. All worried about themselves rather than do the right thing. Any medical staff who have witnessed something out of order and not spoke up should be ashamed and quit.
NHS managers who are not normally medically trained making big decisions! Why were medical staff not listened too!
Very sad to hear that normal citizen been treated like that. Government, hospital senior management can get away without punished.
Dr Dewi Evans is 100% correct in EVERYTHING he says
Everyone responsible for keeping her in a job while those babies were dying should serve the same sentence as her
There is what we call "Respondeat superior" and this should apply in every institutions where management are held responsible for what their staff did! !! Especially where life is taken away intentionally!!!
Team of doctors should be in Charge of Hospital and NHS!!!! not these money management ego and arrogance position suckers!
He is not a forensic pathologist. SO WHY DID POLICE USE HIM TO DETERMIN THE CUASE OF DEATH? Why weren't his claims checked with qualified experts?
Why is he coming to conclusions of 'injection of air' in death cases that HAD AUTOPSIES and where a different causes of death given. Years after the fact.
The administrators should be charged with negligence
There have been numerous cases of medical negligence, involving fatalities, that management have tried to cover up or go away.
I'd love to better understand Dr Evans' findings given many of the so called NHS managers in the reporting line come from medical background, such as Clinical & Medical Directors...etc. The Head /Senior Nurse would also be informed of the concerns, given nurses in general report to another senior nurse. So does Dr Evans mean that the senior clinical team was incompetent as managers or as clinicans/ nurses? From the non-clinical side though HR would be involved to advise on employment law but the decision following a complaint still sits with clinical management. I know it's easy to slip into hating admin workers when one hears the word "management" but in reality many clinicians & nurses move into senior management roles. However, it's true that sadly HR is incredibly risk-averse in the public sector and often influence a decision in favour of not doing anything in case the employee who is under investigation takes the case to tribunal. In any case, it doesn't excuse the decision clinical managers made in this case. Nevertheless, I agree the NHS as a whole and its effectiveness should be reviewed.
management should face prosecution also.Bullying in the workplace makes me vomit.
It’s ridiculous she’s not present. She’s a coward to the end. I’ve seen a lot of American trials. The defendant is always present during the verdict and the impact statements. She was there killing the babies, so she should be their in person. Listening. She won’t feel anything, she doesn’t care but still she has to show up and listen to the parents. Such an insult, cowardly staying in het cell. It shouldn’t be an option. And then throw her into a dark, deep hole.
Unaccountable NHS Managers need to be prosecuted.
What is the alternative to the NHS?
Agree.. Management is mostly vicious, unduly authoritative and try to even enforce their decisions upon medical decisions of experienced medical staff, a lot lot of bullying takes place. Management's top priority is always saving face of organisations so that the organisations keep making good money and keep pretending all is well. They're paid to do that, I guess.
No one talks about what's going on in most places in terms of medical staff being bullied by this vicious Management. Not everyone can afford to come forward. Not even possible to keep a diary. And not everyone is even heard, when they do come forward.. yes Management bullies and intimidates medical & paramedical staff... sadly this is the horrific truth.
Those in charge should be held accountable for allowing a serial killer to kill innocent babies
This is going to be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice this country has seen. "The Post Office scandal on steroids"
It happens all the time when complaints are made they are ignored and swept under the rug by management and further management destroy and try to destroy careers of professionals who raise complaints, by reporting false allegations to registry bodies who collude with the corrupted management.
Why there was no surveillance at the ward?
It is unbelievable, and imho it is just as dark and fallen as the evil of which Lucy has been convicted. But will this be dealt with honestly? No. Fat chance. So, then, can say we it is perhaps a worse evil in that sense? Lucy is clearly a broken person, a convicted person, and has been publicly flogged and humiliated, and she will do her time for her crimes, but how about hospital management? Will we acknowledge that they are broken, too, as they were accessories to these murders?
Impossible, because they are the “good people” who define who the “good people” are, and who decide what is true and what is not. No wonder they want those positions.
'Management' needs to be put in place in all institutions that run on high expertise - like hospitals, universities etc. They can only handle logistics and provide support. The highest manager positions should rotate among the real experts. real doctors in case of hospitals. Only business and financial institutions can be totally under the thumb of professional managers. 'hospital management' degree is not enough. real doctors need to be in charge, as it used to be in times past.
Yep there in lies the problem with the NHS and the dreadful crisis that we find it in. Too much money is wasted on middle-management roles diversity officers etc instead of being spent on medical staff and doctors.
Here's another possibility: Lucy is innocent! I know that may seem crazy, on the face of it, but things are actually very murky. So, in what follows, I'm not claiming that Lucy is innocent. Instead, I'm claiming that it is a real possibility that Lucy is innocent. Let me explain ...
So, what we know for certain is just that a bunch of babies died, without any apparent explanation, circumstantial evidence points to Lucy and she has been found guilty by a jury. What I want to show is that these 3 facts are consistent with Lucy's innocence in a way that is plausible (could be true without too much of a stretch). My theory (see below) has the advantage that it doesn't invoke any nefarious motives or conspiracies involving doctors, hospital management, police, judge or jury. It also explains why hospital management were so reluctant to act against Lucy and why it took so long for Lucy to finally be arrested and convicted.
I suggest that nurses in neonatal wards are in a unique position of great trust. They could rather easily, if they were so inclined, murder babies without leaving any hard evidence. They have the means and the opportunity, but one hopes that they don't have the motive. Anyway, I suggest that suspect nurses have to be able to be convicted on purely circumstantial evidence, or else they cannot be convicted at all and other potentially killer nurses would know that. Therefore, the burden of proof in Lucy's trial had to be significantly lower than in a regular murder trial. Basically, circumstances prevented Lucy from being given a fair trial. Her guilt didn't have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. The justice system does not normally sacrifice a potentially innocent person for the sake of the greater good, but cases like this could be an exception, given that the stakes are so very high, with the fragile lives of newborn babies at stake. The judge may have directed the jury to a guilty verdict, or at least refrained from directing the jury away from a guilty verdict and just let "child abuse hysteria" decide the case. I think I'm correct in saying that Lucy's eventual arrest and trial wasn't as a result of any new incriminating evidence having been uncovered. Instead, it was just a reassessment of the existing circumstantial evidence. There seems to have been a protracted debate, behind the scenes, over whether or not to proceed against Lucy on the basis of that circumstantial evidence. On the one hand, she had to be convicted to deter any other potential killer nurses, given that hard evidence is very hard to come by in these cases. On the other hand, they were effectively condemning a well liked 33 year old nurse, who may very well have been innocent of any crime, to a trial that pretty much had to find her guilty. A true ethical dilemma?
Management should be prosecuted and jailed. Horrendous negligence
If you thought babies were being murdered would you contact a manager or the police?
WHAT A HELL HOLE.
HOW CAN PEOPLE TRUST THE SYSTEM NOW??
😮
Hope all this nasty mess comes out. God bless all the families
Suspend the management thats behaving this way.
I had a doctor once and it turned out he killed his daughter and buried her under the patio it was never explained why he killed her but people said he was a nice friendly man and couldnt believe he did this crime
Criminals refusing to attend court is becomming far to common. It should not be their decision. If they refuse to go to court they should be gaged and chained and dragged there.
In addition to the administrative people being charged Letby's parents should be charged as well. Her parents bullied and threatened the hospital management into letting their daughter go back to kill.
well outside of the nhs if you HELP a killer you'd be charged
Who controls the management?
I do.
I would think after the first unexpected, unexplained baby death the managers would have a thorough investigation. Certainly after the second death, you’d shut everything down (figuratively) until you got to the bottom of it.
It's because the senior management ignored the warnings that the murders continued.
An American here. I would also sue the hospital.
Narcissism is a shameless demon.
I work in the private sector, and it's the exact same.
Whats going on and behind this goverment and police protecting the management not charging them.
How corrupted is this for the justice system in UK?
So many little lives would have been saved and prevent pain to parents if the management listen to doctors.
Most NHS managers are manipulat 0:09 ive, narcissistic, intimidating bullies on far too much money! No wonder the NHS is sinking fast! Clinical staff need to be listened to and protected. Had this happened then many of these poor little souls may have been saved 😢 Something needs to be done now to rectify things! These managers seem to be all from the same mould and are in every NHS hospital in the country! Very concerning!