Alright now time for my serious comment, great video I agree on all points, my recommendation is that you say the name of what you are talking about when you are covering a certain node. You often say things like “this node sucks” and dont drop the name. I like to listen to videos like this on my phone or put it on a second monitor, and i couldnt tell what you were talking about without looking at where your cursor was in the tree. Just a minor gripe/grape but i think people would like it.
Minor but I agree with Mister E here, although I consume a lot of both your videos on the train/walking to/from work, every now and then I listen like it's a podcast when I drive to work.
@@Opal-R Shooting the pox burster they were about to shove always works best for me. Kiting the boss over to them near a ledge is also satisfying but takes a lot more skill. Especially if you're aiming to not go over the edge too yourself.
the "on successful dodge" activating nodes and blessings look questionable to new players until they realize that you have to be dodging basically constantly
For SO LONG, fatshark screwed these up because, they never showed when they activated. No one could say if Duelist actually worked because the icon never showed up (the game was full of talents that didn't actually do anything. I found out that Dance of Death/good balance showed their icons, So I could tell that successful dodges actually happened.
Hey I remember you telling that Loner makes the game spawn less specials going after you! dude how can one even trust your videos when you regularly misinform people
I was nodding my head until he said chain weapons lower the quality of a 40k setting because they’re dumb and nonsensical. Chain weapons are a perfect encapsulation of 40k as a concept because they’re dumb, gaudy, and make no sense on a conceptual level. I mean you’re working with a psychic space wizard and a mutant human ogre who trundles through labyrinthian sewers of megalopolises hunting space demons and heretics. I feel like chainsaw swords only add to the verisimilitude after you magdump an automatic rocket propelled grenade launcher into a beast of nurgle’s throat lmao
loner should be like "all your teammates constantly benefit from your coherency" in addition to it's normal effect, it's so stupid that the aura incentivizes just running away with no actual benefit to your team ever.
I used to swear by the flame grenades because when I was a lot less, good, to put it bluntly, it was too damn hard for me to kite and weave through a mixed horde and take out the 20-30 elites that are actually threatening me in all the chaff. So id drop it and then focus on Elites. Now im just generally good at fighting in this game, so someone suggested I just start practicing knives a few months back, I did and at first I wasn't getting much use out of em. I'd forget they were there or otherwise use too many on bodyshots or just miss. But I kept practicing, and now I can never go back. I made some builds that use Molly or Stun, and whenever I play with them, I find myself looking at Trappers and Flamers with a little more hatred in my heart. Im not perfect with em, ive absolutely choked a clutch or three on a missed knife, but I get constant use out of em now. Perfect ammo efficiency, no, but im always improving and every now and then I find myself landing crazy shots that months ago id say I could never land. Point is, they're insanely good but they require a time and/or skill investment to get the hang of em. Anyone who's been avoiding using them for fear of growing pains and losing matches should just take the leap. Ive never been a crack shot in general, but you don't need to be. Gamesense pulls a lot of weight, when you know a special is going to stop moving you can simply pre-aim and throw if need be. People sometimes seem to have this notion that they're the twitchy zoomy sweaty codboy blitz and if you're not using them its because you "cant aim" and blah blah elitist sludge. Tune it out. Practice. The more you know the game and the special mannerisms, the more you will get out of them at a basic level. Everything else is practice.
If you read off what the perks did it would really help people who have you playing in the background. I listen while playing or doing work and it would be great to be able to just a video, especially an hour long one
Even if you never use throwing knives, you are usually better off picking them than going sunstorm or immolation because it allows you to make better use of other nodes.
Important to mention also that console people might dislike the Knives because of how painful aiming still is I personally bought a keyboard and mouse specifically to play difficulty 4 and above I didn’t how good they were until I switched the way I play
@@bradleyjenkins2271 ya, you'll need mouse with extra buttons for this skill. For me, remapping the blitz keyboard button won't work, i need something easy accessible on my right hand
Crusher like you said is a VT2 weapon: Sienna's mace. Whats very funny is that they gave everybody the Psyker's DS but didn't give psyker their crusher back lol
Bleed for the Emperor lets you take a single high damaging attack like sniper shots without it immediately activating your Until Death specifically for Martyrdom builds. Basically it lets you make a single mistake every now and than which makes it good on Martyrdom builds.
Until Death isn't a safety net in my opinion, it enables more reckless play that can provide large payoff to the entire team. Viewing it as a free death is how I approached it for a long time but its better as a tool to act as if you have high health when your low. You can push really hard and get into the backline at low health with relatively low stakes and when it inevitably procs you get 5 free seconds of offense. You can also use it to actively rescue a teammate that's down or going to go down as well. You can, in a calculated way, jam yourself into bad situations to get other people out of them at low risk to yourself effectively making it not just a free down on your end but a free down for teammates as well. It also means you take less healing and feel better about passing on ammo. Its great to have if your teammates are not on par because bad teammates take more resources even if they're not trying to be actively greedy. Bad players take more damage, need more healing, go down more, and take more ammo because they can't ration it because they're more reliant on their ranged weapon. Or as a generalist with good teammates you can solve gaps left by more focused builds meaning you can let other people be more intentionally greedy and get away with it. If you have the god run that doesn't ever proc it, that's fantastic, but in a lot of high pressure games, I'm actively making the decision to use it to get value and relieve pressure. In summary, personally, Until Death lets me run lean and helps enable my teammates as long as I'm making active decisions to utilize it rather than passively letting it proc when I make mistakes.
Yeah, this is part of the value in Until Death; not just having it for emergencies, but also ACTIVELY using it to push in a situation that would be impossible otherwise
It's still a free death. Where other classes drop, Zealot gets free 5 seconds to do whatever they want and healing afterwards. Redefine it however you want, but it IS a freebie.
I have a feeling that the higher Havok levels is going to drastically increase the value of a really good "Oh, SHIT!!" button like Chorus. It depends on the regularity of super-high pressure situations, but I think there's some real potential there
Shield of contempt is even worse than you describe btw xD it only works on one person at a time, so allies can steal it from you and it wont proc for you for 10s. Works in downed state so even downed allies can steal it (disclaimer i havent tested that specific part in a while so unless its been changed this is still true). Only procs on health damage and not toughness so it's not active when you want it to be most of the time and the hit that did health damage to activate the buff doesn't get reduced, only follow up hits.
@@EcchiRevenge Valid reasoning but i dont think it really works all that well considering there are potentially 4 players 'competing' for the buff at all times when it's off CD. It becomes really unreliable and you can't guarantee it provides value in a situation like that when barry the ogryn accidentally took 3 chip damage from a poxwalker or a barrel. it also means you yourself have less control over how it can be utilised whenever a teammate is nearby. If you ever played payday 2 its the same reason why the biker perk deck is bad where teammates randomly stop you from being able to armor gate. (sry if you havent its the only example i have on hand :c)
I really feel what you're talking about in regards to the blades of faith talent. I picked up stunstorm to do the penances that require the stun grenades and it feels awful not having the ranged attack on demand whenever a special unit rears their ugly, warp-corrupted head around.
@@BlueEyesWhiteVieraYeah, I can’t get the feel for the bolter and flame thrower, sooooo long to swap to I spent too much on zealot with the stub revolver, having a 5 shot extra accurate blades of faith is a blast… sucks at boss damage though
1:00:00 occasionally chorus lets you push a boss off a ledge, which is a nice bonus. Admittedly, dash and stealth give you enough damage that killing bosses isn't a big deal, but it isn't as funny as scaring a plague ogryn off a bridge
1:10:25 This is so real. I was snarking at the thought that 12% CDR would change something. Then I went into a game and felt like a fucking slug for 5 seconds every 5 seconds and needless to say, every curio I have is now CDR Certified™
As a casual martyrdom + heavy eviscerator enjoyer, I just play aggressively with it and get the benefits passively from chip damage, trying to keep enemies targetting me for my team and peeling enemies off my psykers/vets. I LOVE the eviscerator but it feels so horribly slow without martyrdom, I just can't use it with the other keystones.
For people struggling with hitting their blades of faith, I recommend starting to aim a *little* higher, like at the forehead of a gunner or the top of their helmets. The blades are fast enough to *feel* like hitscan, but they do have a little bit of a downward trajectory. The moment I started doing this, I starting consistently one shotting gunners/flamers, and I'm *not* particularly great at aiming. The hurtbox is actually quite generous, so by aiming a little higher, you'll pretty much clip the head's hitbox at most ranges.
I recommend installing the custom crosshair mod and changing the melee crosshair to something more visible. I prefer the small cross. Did this on a whim and it was staggering how much easier it was to land knives.
Thy wrath be swift (no hitstun + movement speed on hit) has so much value imo because when you're clearing a gigantic horde that is composed of poxwalkers, maulers and/or ragers with melee, idk if I'm misunderstanding things but it's SO easy to get hit and if you do (w/o TWBS) you'll come to a stop and if your weapon has poor mobility you might end up getting surrounded and either take a ton of dmg or die. also like Tanner says it lets you dodge while getting hit so that makes it 1. harder to get cucked while trying to dodge a mutie/trapper 2. take less hits after getting hit once
@@blueboy1958 the biggest threat in a mixed horde is ragers and shoves don't stagger them mid combo (and they're literally always mid combo when you're training a horde) like yes it's not essential and that point could be used somewhere to enhance dmg but when you're up against mixed hordes like the clusterf--k in the melee pressure trials in the creature_spawner psykhanium TWBS is invaluable because you can worry about thinning more than not getting hit
1:00:00 Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude also makes all guys with guns shit their pants and stop shooting, and I mean all of them, if they have a line of sight to you, doesn't matter how far away they are
Impact is a fairly easy to understand buff both in implementation and purpose. It's a modifier to your stagger, which means it makes it easier to stun enemies with your attacks. And a main purpose for it, just like in VT2, is to stun berserker out of their combo. Problem is, I've yet to find reliable source of information on what stagger breakpoints actually are, and what modifiers are applied to them depending on the enemy state. I do know that berserkers get a stagger resist during their combo, that's why tests with them in a hub are useless unless you have mods, but by how much I have no clue. Closest thing to a guide that I found is an advice to dig the files of the game for said numbers and yeah, duck that.
I noticed the effect of impact easily with thunder hammer; without the node you can heavy horizontal attack the horde, they are pushed back but not falling over; with the impact node your heavy horizontal just topples the horde and it is quite annoying
Nice to see someone finally give the shoutout to the crusher. Have a friend that uses it and it makes mixed hordes no longer scary cause you just knock it all fuckin over
@@IsaacChoo88 like i said spam left click and powered state and you CC the horde. the damage can be lacking but my god with correct blessings you can even make crushers your bitch.
The only time Thy Wrath feels like it helps is when using a Thunder Hammer. Getting stunned out of a heavy charge when going for a boss weakpoint or any beefy elite feels awful. But thats prolly more so on the THammer being a slow piece of crap.
It also makes it so enemies don't stun you out of objectives. And as above someone stated, flamers can't push you back allowing you to, with your T-800 resilience, walk right up to them and break their stupid necks without needing to ever worry about the horde spacing you into a corner or something. What I generally use it for is heavy weapon builds. Eviscerator and Thammer are, unoriginally, my favorite weapons because they so perfectly fit the theme of the class. Playing those weapons without Thy Wrath vs With is night and day in the real world where I am an imperfect meat creature who will inevitably get stunlocked if I make a mistake. Thy wrath just erases that, like Tanner said. It turns the class into a flat out brawler, something akin to an Ogryn. A mf who does not care if you land a hit because his harder, more overtly lethal hit will also land and he will still be standing. It may not be necessary from a meta perspective, hell I dont run DS with it, but it's basically a whole playstyle option bundled into one talent point. Some of us dont care about damage taken, long as we get to extraction.
Stun nades are good if you play with randoms and want THEM to stay alive. I only need them for *myself* if I run myself into some corner like an idiot. Stun nades basically calm randoms down and give them time to think, instead of having 2 of them die, trying to rez the third one under Crusher/Mauler overheads. Main problem is their location on the skill tree. As for Immolation nades, the only use case I found for them is the Pox Hound modifier missions. If you're alone, don't have a choke point, have a heavy melee weapon and a slow ranged weapon, throwing a flame nade will save you lots of trouble. However, considering the sheer quantity of very specific factors for use, I never felt like picking it is a good idea. Also, I still see players get confused by the flames and thinking it's enemy fire. So it's on the same level as smoke when it comes to fucking over the visibility for your team lmao Idk, maybe if Immolation could burn off trapper nets or ignite pox gas(without friendly fire), I'd pick it just because I am bad with throwing knives.
what pisses me off about going for duelist is that while the other two nodes in the same column are right after the stat boost node, duelist has an extra stat boost node in front which means if you're coming off knives and going for duelist you're spending 4 points on stat boost nodes to get to it whereas is you were coming off the upgraded shock nade you spend 3 to get to dance of death. that said duelist is just so strong it's worth it anyway but that one point alone shut down a really nice build idea I had
Anecdote here, in any FPS I love binding my grenades and melees to my mouse thumb buttons, so binding the melee special attack and grenade makes throwing knives and power sword on/chainsaw revs/ dueling sword stab/etc really easy to aim and activate under duress for me
I just started playing Darktide not too long ago and chose Zealot because it looked most interesting to me. After looking over the skill tree to see what looked interesting and what looked optimal, I'm happy to report that so far my build is exactly what you've suggested in this video. The only thing I'm worried about is sucking with the throwing knives at first, but my countless days of Counter Strike back in high school should help me shake the rust off a little faster lol
@@Nereosis16 I have it bound to one of my side mouse buttons that way I can use them while staying focused on mobility/repositioning. I don't like having to take a finger off the movement keys to use them
Good video; a lot of good tips for a returning player looking to get into Havoc. One thing I find confusing is that you call chorus mid, and I watched your video for 40 Havoc and chorus/bubble seemed to be critical to tackling objectives. From a meta standpoint, chorus seems pretty important for high level play, not just mid.
Hey if you're open to ideas, I think a video on crisis management in Darktide would be helpful for newer players, especially now that ps5 players are joining in. This is just my experience, but when it comes to newer players, I notice they just crack under the pressure when shit hits the fan. Their builds may be good and they've got the basics down but they panic, hesitate, freeze, or get overwhelmed. So when, as an example, two of their teammates are down, a bunch of maulers and crushers are heading their way, a beast of nurgle spawned, they're low on health, and their stuck in that jail building on the train assassination map, but there is also a medicae with charges nearby. Personally, I'd take the medicae and back away to a more open area where I can properly kite and dodge the boss and mobs, but I've seen noobs just charge forward, with low hp mind you, and tunnel vision on the boss while the mobs just swarm and down them. The reason why this is specific is that it actually happened, I was left alone to clutch after the other guy charged ahead. This is just something I think newer players need to learn but almost noone has content out to address it.
0:45. wait a min, how you are supposed to stack 5 times then? hit 5 mobs to reach 5 stacks then lose them right away after next attack???????? who designed this shit
@@droolbob4447Right, but even when cleaving 5 mobs every swing you still only get the damage buff half the time. Because the swing that has the buff does not reapply the buff.
Stun storm is strictly a clutch/revive tool. If you’ve got a survivalist vet in the group to regen revolver, I really don’t find myself using the throwing knives very much. That said, sucks the left side is kinda poopy.
fully agree on the knife blitz, I only started using the knife to penance farm, went from getting maybe 5 kills a game with knife to like 25-30 a game over the course of the penance (get 500 kills with knife), and yes it just brings the class together the main issue with immolation grenade is the enemies will actively avoid it so if you throw it down preemptively the enemies will just walk around it, or literally just go back in the door and come out the door behind you. but the main problem with grenades in general is the fuse time, by the time they even pop, your allies have killed 80-90% of what would have been affected
one thing i want to point out about throwing knives and improving their consistency: if the target is at the same elevation as the player (which isnt always but a good reference point), within 15m, the knife will hit wherever the crosshair is pointed at. this has SIGNIFICANTLY helped me improve my aim with throwing knives. i went from missing like 75% of the time to nailing gunners like its my god damn job. remember, kids, if the target is within 15m and is on your level, just aim for the head.
Personally, the fact the crusher’s unyielding damage is so high(can easily one shot bulwark with h1 with some rampage stacks) really throws me and pushes it for me into the op catagory
Beacon of Purity could heal double the corruption and unlock wounds but still be useless for the simple fact if you are going down in the higher difficulties teammates probably are unable to revive you unless you are going down to lone crushers or something hidden in the shadows.
The only positive thing I can say about Restoring Faith is that when you are playing Martyrdom, if you find yourself at one wound, or put yourself there on purpose for max stacks, taking small amounts of chip damage gets mitigated a bit by it, not by any significant margin, but it does also tend to result in situations like you getting hit by a higher damage attack, Until Death/Holy Revenant popping, and then you heal past that one wound with both Restoring Faith and Holy Revenant. As I said, it's not very good, and you do lose stacks - though you don't NEED all of Martyrdom's stacks outside of really excessive breakpoints - but it's something? I still wouldn't really take this if I could, but Martyrdom in general - the entire playstyle, that is - needs a look in because the keystone doesn't work nearly as well as the Saltz Zealot concept did in VT2 just because of the different mechanics.
I'd say Dance of Death is most noticeable when you dodge a Plague Ogryn or Chaos Spawn and then mag dump into its face. It's real easy to keep it on target with the buff. This, of course, will also proc Duellist as well.
I do agree benediction is way better then loner. However if your going to use shroudfield, I find having to go all the way back across the tree for it too heavy a point tax.
Thank you for gracing us with so much in-depth knowledge and analysis. Mister L is the gold standard when it comes to Darktide. P. S. Let's push Steam to open gaming powercouple of the year award category so we can vote for Mister E and Mister L
I'm Desperation's biggest fan. Mostly because I'm the world's worst stamina manager. Basically it's a free 20% damage at the start of every engagement because i sprint in with zero stamina.
I still completely disagree with your opinion on Until Death (and holy Revenant). I think that the better you get at the game, the more value you can derive from those 5s of invulnerability. I think having a safety net that's online every 2 minutes (which really is not that long of a cooldown, imo) that quite literally negates death only gets more value as you get better at the game, as you can accomplish more in those 5 seconds. You have enough time to comprehend what happened, to potentially get out of an otherwise run-ending situation, and even in co-op play it's beneficial because preventing your death can also prevent a domino effect from occurring where everyone on the team starts dropping like flies because they had to take their focus away from a difficult situation to then have to try and pick you up (anecdotally, I have observed that it really isn't people's first thought to just let a downed teammate die and rescue them at a safer interval, most people do try to go out of their way to force a revive, even if it isn't always the best course of action). Taking Duelist and then Until Death + Holy Revenant is only a single extra point of investment to move down the tree, and I think what it gives you is infinitely more valuable than +20% damage for 5s when out of stamina (which, again anecdotally, running out of stamina is a scenario that rarely ever happens unless I am intentionally spamming pushes with the Crusher or something). I would concede that Holy Revenant isn't as valuable as Until Death, but i think that in practice, it really is nice having the ability to get out of invulnerability with more than a single point of HP left (which would leave you vulnerable to like, one gunshot and one melee attack, and so you end up immediately dying anyway).
i get how u feel but i think that the better you get at the game u do the more u don't have to use this perk cuz u will always think about position,priority,map knowledge with all of this and some skill play u HP will never be low enough to use Untill Death,I mean i play without Untill Death and i im not the best player still always out score board everyone.
@TannerLindberg It's down to personal preference, then. My own opinion of it is that there is not another single point investment along Zealot's "meta" path that is more impactful than outright negating death. If you're playing the game properly, not going out of your way to die lol, then yeah, it's a "dead" skill, because it's a safety net, but when shit goes bad enough for it to see use (and with all the dumb audio issues and latency shit, things will inevitably go bad in one game or another) you're really glad that you have it. And when things dont go bad, you wish you hadn't of taken it. I, personally, prefer to be "better safe than sorry" and take it anyway even if i dont plan on seeing any use out of it. Obviously a stretch of a comparison, but more of a mindset; but I would compare taking Until Death to be akin to wearing a helmet at a work site. Sure, 99% of the time you're not getting 10 gajillion kilogram bricks dropped on your head, you're working in such a way where you don't actively put yourself in a postion to have a 10 gajillion kg brick hit your head, but the *one* time it does happen, you're glad that the helmet saved you from what would have been a fatal injury.
This is basically everything I said about it. I dont know why pointing out that until death is mostly a dead node causes this reaction. Like o said I played 5 games with it didn't need it in a single one id rather just move the point else where
I find immolations are decent at just clearing out smaller things so that they don’t get in the way of elites and specials. Not so useful at the highest level perhaps, but I find it a lot easier to deal with isolated elites than I do elites surrounded by little guys. Useful for groups of crushers that someone shoots in the middle of a horde, or for covering flank while you deal with elites in a horde when you can’t rely on teammates to do so.
Still watching but had a thought: Perk that makes you take 40% less damage on the damage that takes you into the next wound. Perk that heals back 20% of the damage you take. Is it possible for that 20% to bring you back above a wound?
The 20% attack speed buff of Fury is actually WAY better than the 20% damage increase of Ecclesiarch's Call even though both sound like a 20% DPS increase on paper. Since you're already hitting your breakpoints if your build isn't terrible, the attack speed provides 20% more DPS _and_ kills per minute, while 20% damage usually only provides a real-world DPS increase on bosses
on toughness regen speed for zealot specifically, i think a lot of meta builds tend to only have two main ways to regenerate toughness; second wind, and your ability. So taking a toughness regen speed perk can be a decent option if the other option you're considering is something like +toughness, +revive speed, or one of the damage resistances. Still not the best, and it sucks you need three whole curio perks to get it to a reasonable bonus, but if you're looking for more ways to regen toughness building it is an option
Would appreciate some “idiots guide” just going over and explaining the basics of how the class works so I could then apply that knowledge to the meta. Cool video tho!
on taking your advice ive noticed ill be pinned by ranged enemies sometimes and have barley any toughness regen. not saying your wrong, it is noticeable for a more passive player with stiff fingers lol, gotta get use to it esecially while using chorus
I think they just need to do away with coherency, you should just get a flat toughness regen speed up to a certain cap then you gotta rely on talents or kills. Each coherency node would need to be reworked but honestly with the system just gone i feel it would open up way more options for useless nodes.
Beacon of purity is great in havoc, the team need to stick together and there's so much corruption in the game mode that being able to heal it is really helpful..... Also impact is really REALLY good, with literally any weapon you want to use 2 light attacks at 55% impact strength staggers a crusher which gives you time to either hit with a heavy or back out
15:43 the only use i found with flaming grenade is combo with banishing the light, you ignite mobs, using your skill, to control and hold, so your newbie pub randoms have a breath to reload their guns
Loving these in-depth looks at the skill trees. Can you do one for Psyker too? Also as a newer player, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on "Levelling builds" and if/how they're different compared to someone who say has every class maxed with every weapon unlocked.
Tanner, I really appreciate your long guides As a player only a month in who is a try hard, I really like knowing exactly what the value of talents are and why. I used to think Enemies Within, Enemies Without was a great perk, and I took Disdain literally just for EWEW. Also had Anointed With Blood. Now I've got 3 free points in my build I also like that you're being nicer :) I do request an ogryn video like this at some point. You started with Vet, which is my least favourite class, then bounced to my favourite class of Zealot XD. Now I'm hoping you get to Ogryn then psyker at some point Happy Holidays!
Are you over looking perhaps, the double barrel shotgun for the emperor's bullet perk? Still won't be very good but not the worst thing in the world for a certain kind of playstyle that involves switching to mele and gun continually. Double barrel shotgun also has the blessing for 70% faster reload after making a kill with both barrels.
As a martyrdom player, I feel vindicated by your talk about martyrdom. Nothing else in the game makes me feel like a lore accurate Eversor assassin, but also, nothing else in the game makes me feel like a tabletop Eversor assassin who's a few dice rolls away from dying.
Thanks, really helpful! I recently got really into zaelot, specially with the new sword, after playing almost 1k hours on Veteran mostly. Got a feeling that this skilltree needs some redoing as well. Psyker got one I think, so the only route isnt THAT. :D
I always take Until Death. I'm not a pro, not what would people call "a great player". If anything, i consider myself to be a turbo casual. Until Death just gives such a nice safety net just in case stuff doesn't go as i envisioned it would go, or when i just missplay, and two minutes CD is low enough for it to be available somewhat readily.
Amazing breakdown. I will say, when ur one shotting enemies scourge is not always up, so I find scourge is not the most consistent + 30 percent crit chance.
I really like the chain weapons because I love WH40K. The entire setting is over the top science fantasy and it's not any harder for me to suspend disbelief for the chain weapons than it is to do the same for the bolter or the entire concept of psykers. Chainweapons are a suboptimal pick, but they're a FUN pick and in the hands of a competent player will work pretty well. They could use a buff though. Personally I think the movement speed on chain weapon rev should be standard, not a blessing, and that would make them a much stronger pick and a more viable weapon for things like Maelstrom.
48:00 My 2 cents on how to rework it: +15% damage vs infested and unyielding for everyone in coherency. Completely different thing but it's also thematic for purification.
Reasoning: Huge buff vs hordes and bosses for the whole team. That's like everyone gets 3/5 of 2 free weapon damage perks on BOTH their weapons. It might be too much, but I think it needs to be on the stronger side given the awkward talents above it that you're forced to take to get it. It really needs something in that ballpark, I think. Am I wrong? Feel free to tell me. Maybe 10%? Plus, the purification you're doing in this game is hitting things until they're dead and not exactly healing corruption from people. It's way more thematic as a "Beacon of Purity" kind of thing for 40k.
Beacon of Purity's only use now is to combat the corruption creep that the "Blight Spreads" havoc modifier hits you and your team with. Even then, not worth the points to get to it.
Great Vid. I would like to know/understand why the Combat Shotgun is considered so bad ? Can you/someone develop more on that particular weapon ? I do like to run it from time to time and its seem pretty fine to me. Thx.
I still like my suggestion of making the Martyrdom defensive node prevent toughness bleedthrough when on the last wound. Keep shit that can burn through like barrels, poxwalkers, flamer explosions, but that's it.
As somebody who uses a controller to play, using the throwing knives felt impossible to me since blitzes are bound to up on the d-pad. However, after downloading a controller rebind mod, I put blitzes on r1/rb and since then I can't go without knives. It's surprisingly easy to use them effectively on controller that way (most of the time). As a zealot-related aside with weapons, I really wish heavy eviscerator wasn't so...well, heavy. Using weapons that make your movement so much worse and swing so slowly feels awful on Zealot, even with swing speed buffs from various class stuff. Though the chain weapons in general feel like they need some kind of rework to really be good. Sawing a dude in half is visually cool, but other weapons can do the same thing faster.
If chain weapons worked like the new 2H power sword and when active got a general damage/cleave buff but also applied like bleed on hit or rend on hit less then a blessing. they should do debuffs like some vermin tide weapons, they would still not be top tier but it would be something to build off of and fits what they are supposed to do in setting rip flesh(bleed DoT) and shred armor(rending). would have to rebalance blood letter blessing though.
ngl, i think.. mister E and you and some other people from the discords should just become a council to come up with various new nodes for the classes, so there's more build diversity
You don't actually think they would change Martyrdom like that right? I'm pretty sure they just think of it like this "haha if I HAPPEN to take damage it will make me stronger" thing that lets people go down a bunch of times.
Good video, the back and forth on momentum vs blazing piety is very funny. You mentioned the devils claw sword being good, how do you build that thing blessing and perk wise, because looking at the plethora of impact blessings leaves me ... whelmed.
I'm not saying these things are great or meta but here are some points worth considering if you like variety. Vicious offering is fairly good if using the MK IX Heavy Sword as you're using heavies pretty much all the time and stun grenades aren't a terrible choice for a weapon with poor armour damage but then the choice is do you want a ranged weapon good at killing armour or fast at killing gunners. Fortitude in fellowship actually works even when not in coherency making loner even more of a pointless node. Impact may be pointless otherwise but for Ogryn it does mean two less heavy 1's (block cancel) with the shield on a crusher to knock it over, thats why I use middle grenade to also take Soften Them Up but for only one build.
When havoc comes out and you have time to play through it, these meta guides will be a lot more valuable (not that they aren't now lol). I guarantee that the metas will change for havoc from the way it sounds. Right now the game unfortunately isn't really difficult enough for the meta to need to be followed much at all by competent players, as most can get by with builds that are just for fun or memey with a competent team, even on maelstroms. Also havoc may make coherency and team buffing more necessary, as getting split off and overwhelmed will likely be guaranteed if you try to play higher level havoc like you do auric. So things like shield of contempt and chorus may be a lot stronger picks Anyways good video, I will be busy terrorizing the local shotgun we population with my double barrel shotgun veteran build until havoc rolls out
So brief comment on "Banishing Light", idk if its something with my setup but honestly even for staggering bosses, that pulse stagger feels extremely inconsistent. I've had matches where I locked down a Plague Ogryn or a Chaos Spawn for the entire duration of that burst, and I've had other times where I channel 3 pulses already, and the boss just gives me a big "Fuck You" and starts swinging right at me instead. Sometimes I wasn't paying attention and they knocked me out of the pulse early >:c
27:38 Again 200% Correct but ever since this game can throw and will happen BS it makes like almost impossible to not take that, idk it might be only me again but god damn this saved me so many times(because of a certain bug that keeps happening and has not been fixed) that is hard to not take it but your point is valid about why you dont take it.
Very informative video, but could you turn the sweating down a tiny bit? I don't mind sweating in general but I got the feeling you're overdoing it a bit :P
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/1.gif)
Alright now time for my serious comment, great video I agree on all points, my recommendation is that you say the name of what you are talking about when you are covering a certain node. You often say things like “this node sucks” and dont drop the name.
I like to listen to videos like this on my phone or put it on a second monitor, and i couldnt tell what you were talking about without looking at where your cursor was in the tree. Just a minor gripe/grape but i think people would like it.
Mr e I’m trying to get into dark tide pvp but blowing up my teammates with explosive barrels is pretty hard, any tips?
Minor but I agree with Mister E here, although I consume a lot of both your videos on the train/walking to/from work, every now and then I listen like it's a podcast when I drive to work.
@@Opal-R Shooting the pox burster they were about to shove always works best for me.
Kiting the boss over to them near a ledge is also satisfying but takes a lot more skill. Especially if you're aiming to not go over the edge too yourself.
@@MurasakiHime5B1F74 very interesting I’m going to try those out, thanks!
It might be only me but i was listening this video in the background i could get a general idea what Tanner was talking but understandable
the "on successful dodge" activating nodes and blessings look questionable to new players until they realize that you have to be dodging basically constantly
For SO LONG, fatshark screwed these up because, they never showed when they activated. No one could say if Duelist actually worked because the icon never showed up (the game was full of talents that didn't actually do anything. I found out that Dance of Death/good balance showed their icons, So I could tell that successful dodges actually happened.
wow another collab without mister e, its beginning to seem personal
Don’t worry you can always be inside me 🥰😘
Jealous type I see
Hey I remember you telling that Loner makes the game spawn less specials going after you! dude how can one even trust your videos when you regularly misinform people
Lmao! Butthurt much?
Yeah, I hate when people break up with me and don’t tell me for weeks. So inconsiderate.
I was nodding my head until he said chain weapons lower the quality of a 40k setting because they’re dumb and nonsensical. Chain weapons are a perfect encapsulation of 40k as a concept because they’re dumb, gaudy, and make no sense on a conceptual level. I mean you’re working with a psychic space wizard and a mutant human ogre who trundles through labyrinthian sewers of megalopolises hunting space demons and heretics. I feel like chainsaw swords only add to the verisimilitude after you magdump an automatic rocket propelled grenade launcher into a beast of nurgle’s throat lmao
i find things that literally cant work how they are shown to totally kill any suspension of dis belief i have
loner should be like "all your teammates constantly benefit from your coherency" in addition to it's normal effect, it's so stupid that the aura incentivizes just running away with no actual benefit to your team ever.
I used to swear by the flame grenades because when I was a lot less, good, to put it bluntly, it was too damn hard for me to kite and weave through a mixed horde and take out the 20-30 elites that are actually threatening me in all the chaff. So id drop it and then focus on Elites. Now im just generally good at fighting in this game, so someone suggested I just start practicing knives a few months back, I did and at first I wasn't getting much use out of em. I'd forget they were there or otherwise use too many on bodyshots or just miss. But I kept practicing, and now I can never go back. I made some builds that use Molly or Stun, and whenever I play with them, I find myself looking at Trappers and Flamers with a little more hatred in my heart. Im not perfect with em, ive absolutely choked a clutch or three on a missed knife, but I get constant use out of em now. Perfect ammo efficiency, no, but im always improving and every now and then I find myself landing crazy shots that months ago id say I could never land.
Point is, they're insanely good but they require a time and/or skill investment to get the hang of em. Anyone who's been avoiding using them for fear of growing pains and losing matches should just take the leap. Ive never been a crack shot in general, but you don't need to be. Gamesense pulls a lot of weight, when you know a special is going to stop moving you can simply pre-aim and throw if need be. People sometimes seem to have this notion that they're the twitchy zoomy sweaty codboy blitz and if you're not using them its because you "cant aim" and blah blah elitist sludge.
Tune it out. Practice. The more you know the game and the special mannerisms, the more you will get out of them at a basic level. Everything else is practice.
If you read off what the perks did it would really help people who have you playing in the background.
I listen while playing or doing work and it would be great to be able to just a video, especially an hour long one
I'll keep that in mind
To be fair Tanner does mention what the perks do a lot of the time, just not all the time
++ Wanted to write the same comment. Watching your video as a podcast soo its kinda hard to understand what are u talking about.
Big up to this. Would really help out a lot if i know what node tanner is angry about.
Even if you never use throwing knives, you are usually better off picking them than going sunstorm or immolation because it allows you to make better use of other nodes.
Important to mention also that console people might dislike the Knives because of how painful aiming still is
I personally bought a keyboard and mouse specifically to play difficulty 4 and above
I didn’t how good they were until I switched the way I play
@@bradleyjenkins2271 ya, you'll need mouse with extra buttons for this skill. For me, remapping the blitz keyboard button won't work, i need something easy accessible on my right hand
Crusher like you said is a VT2 weapon: Sienna's mace. Whats very funny is that they gave everybody the Psyker's DS but didn't give psyker their crusher back lol
@@Zedgo99 it's not mace, it's a battle scepter!
Thanks for the Manray Patrick analogy, I understand it perfectly now.
Bleed for the Emperor lets you take a single high damaging attack like sniper shots without it immediately activating your Until Death specifically for Martyrdom builds. Basically it lets you make a single mistake every now and than which makes it good on Martyrdom builds.
Another nice thing the throwing does is cancel the weapon swap animation
Yeah good for Boltor
@@TannerLindberg and flamer
And doesn't the throwing knife inherit the weapon's blessing, like bleed?
@@pirx9798and uncanny
Until Death isn't a safety net in my opinion, it enables more reckless play that can provide large payoff to the entire team. Viewing it as a free death is how I approached it for a long time but its better as a tool to act as if you have high health when your low. You can push really hard and get into the backline at low health with relatively low stakes and when it inevitably procs you get 5 free seconds of offense. You can also use it to actively rescue a teammate that's down or going to go down as well. You can, in a calculated way, jam yourself into bad situations to get other people out of them at low risk to yourself effectively making it not just a free down on your end but a free down for teammates as well. It also means you take less healing and feel better about passing on ammo. Its great to have if your teammates are not on par because bad teammates take more resources even if they're not trying to be actively greedy. Bad players take more damage, need more healing, go down more, and take more ammo because they can't ration it because they're more reliant on their ranged weapon. Or as a generalist with good teammates you can solve gaps left by more focused builds meaning you can let other people be more intentionally greedy and get away with it. If you have the god run that doesn't ever proc it, that's fantastic, but in a lot of high pressure games, I'm actively making the decision to use it to get value and relieve pressure. In summary, personally, Until Death lets me run lean and helps enable my teammates as long as I'm making active decisions to utilize it rather than passively letting it proc when I make mistakes.
Yeah, this is part of the value in Until Death; not just having it for emergencies, but also ACTIVELY using it to push in a situation that would be impossible otherwise
It's still a free death. Where other classes drop, Zealot gets free 5 seconds to do whatever they want and healing afterwards.
Redefine it however you want, but it IS a freebie.
I have a feeling that the higher Havok levels is going to drastically increase the value of a really good "Oh, SHIT!!" button like Chorus. It depends on the regularity of super-high pressure situations, but I think there's some real potential there
no sub optimal stuff will not magically become optimal on havoc
@Mr.Ford3350 it turns out you were correct. Also Beacon of Purity due to the goo puddles.
@@TannerLindberg how do you feel about this comment after FUCKING BUBBLE of all things became meta "because havoc"
Shield of contempt is even worse than you describe btw xD it only works on one person at a time, so allies can steal it from you and it wont proc for you for 10s. Works in downed state so even downed allies can steal it (disclaimer i havent tested that specific part in a while so unless its been changed this is still true). Only procs on health damage and not toughness so it's not active when you want it to be most of the time and the hit that did health damage to activate the buff doesn't get reduced, only follow up hits.
@@EcchiRevenge Valid reasoning but i dont think it really works all that well considering there are potentially 4 players 'competing' for the buff at all times when it's off CD. It becomes really unreliable and you can't guarantee it provides value in a situation like that when barry the ogryn accidentally took 3 chip damage from a poxwalker or a barrel.
it also means you yourself have less control over how it can be utilised whenever a teammate is nearby. If you ever played payday 2 its the same reason why the biker perk deck is bad where teammates randomly stop you from being able to armor gate. (sry if you havent its the only example i have on hand :c)
I really feel what you're talking about in regards to the blades of faith talent. I picked up stunstorm to do the penances that require the stun grenades and it feels awful not having the ranged attack on demand whenever a special unit rears their ugly, warp-corrupted head around.
Especially when considering your top 2 ranged weapon options have incredibly slow draw times, making the throwing knife even more valuable to have.
"[...] ugly, warp-corruted head [...]" - *psykers BOMBASTIC sideeye*
@@BlueEyesWhiteVieraYeah, I can’t get the feel for the bolter and flame thrower, sooooo long to swap to
I spent too much on zealot with the stub revolver, having a 5 shot extra accurate blades of faith is a blast… sucks at boss damage though
1:00:00 occasionally chorus lets you push a boss off a ledge, which is a nice bonus. Admittedly, dash and stealth give you enough damage that killing bosses isn't a big deal, but it isn't as funny as scaring a plague ogryn off a bridge
No fun allowed in meta
1:10:25 This is so real. I was snarking at the thought that 12% CDR would change something.
Then I went into a game and felt like a fucking slug for 5 seconds every 5 seconds and needless to say, every curio I have is now CDR Certified™
As a casual martyrdom + heavy eviscerator enjoyer, I just play aggressively with it and get the benefits passively from chip damage, trying to keep enemies targetting me for my team and peeling enemies off my psykers/vets. I LOVE the eviscerator but it feels so horribly slow without martyrdom, I just can't use it with the other keystones.
You should just use blazing piety then
@@Nereosis16 But it doesn't give attack speed...?
For people struggling with hitting their blades of faith, I recommend starting to aim a *little* higher, like at the forehead of a gunner or the top of their helmets. The blades are fast enough to *feel* like hitscan, but they do have a little bit of a downward trajectory. The moment I started doing this, I starting consistently one shotting gunners/flamers, and I'm *not* particularly great at aiming. The hurtbox is actually quite generous, so by aiming a little higher, you'll pretty much clip the head's hitbox at most ranges.
I recommend installing the custom crosshair mod and changing the melee crosshair to something more visible. I prefer the small cross. Did this on a whim and it was staggering how much easier it was to land knives.
Thy wrath be swift (no hitstun + movement speed on hit) has so much value imo because when you're clearing a gigantic horde that is composed of poxwalkers, maulers and/or ragers with melee, idk if I'm misunderstanding things but it's SO easy to get hit and if you do (w/o TWBS) you'll come to a stop and if your weapon has poor mobility you might end up getting surrounded and either take a ton of dmg or die.
also like Tanner says it lets you dodge while getting hit so that makes it 1. harder to get cucked while trying to dodge a mutie/trapper 2. take less hits after getting hit once
Just shove lol
@@blueboy1958 the biggest threat in a mixed horde is ragers and shoves don't stagger them mid combo (and they're literally always mid combo when you're training a horde)
like yes it's not essential and that point could be used somewhere to enhance dmg but when you're up against mixed hordes like the clusterf--k in the melee pressure trials in the creature_spawner psykhanium TWBS is invaluable because you can worry about thinning more than not getting hit
1:00:00 Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude also makes all guys with guns shit their pants and stop shooting, and I mean all of them, if they have a line of sight to you, doesn't matter how far away they are
That holy chorus contain some 2023 Tanner levels of mean things on it
really? I never noticed that
Impact is a fairly easy to understand buff both in implementation and purpose. It's a modifier to your stagger, which means it makes it easier to stun enemies with your attacks. And a main purpose for it, just like in VT2, is to stun berserker out of their combo. Problem is, I've yet to find reliable source of information on what stagger breakpoints actually are, and what modifiers are applied to them depending on the enemy state. I do know that berserkers get a stagger resist during their combo, that's why tests with them in a hub are useless unless you have mods, but by how much I have no clue. Closest thing to a guide that I found is an advice to dig the files of the game for said numbers and yeah, duck that.
I noticed the effect of impact easily with thunder hammer; without the node you can heavy horizontal attack the horde, they are pushed back but not falling over; with the impact node your heavy horizontal just topples the horde and it is quite annoying
*TGD*-Total Greendog Death
Nice to see someone finally give the shoutout to the crusher. Have a friend that uses it and it makes mixed hordes no longer scary cause you just knock it all fuckin over
how is crusher comparing to thunder hammer in term of crowd control?
@@IsaacChoo88 like i said spam left click and powered state and you CC the horde. the damage can be lacking but my god with correct blessings you can even make crushers your bitch.
The only time Thy Wrath feels like it helps is when using a Thunder Hammer. Getting stunned out of a heavy charge when going for a boss weakpoint or any beefy elite feels awful. But thats prolly more so on the THammer being a slow piece of crap.
Flamers don't push you back, so you can run right through it. It is really helpful if you are caught out in a corner.
It allows for zealot to tank certain objectives, but not investigative scanners lol. Fatshark consistency
It also makes it so enemies don't stun you out of objectives. And as above someone stated, flamers can't push you back allowing you to, with your T-800 resilience, walk right up to them and break their stupid necks without needing to ever worry about the horde spacing you into a corner or something. What I generally use it for is heavy weapon builds. Eviscerator and Thammer are, unoriginally, my favorite weapons because they so perfectly fit the theme of the class. Playing those weapons without Thy Wrath vs With is night and day in the real world where I am an imperfect meat creature who will inevitably get stunlocked if I make a mistake. Thy wrath just erases that, like Tanner said. It turns the class into a flat out brawler, something akin to an Ogryn. A mf who does not care if you land a hit because his harder, more overtly lethal hit will also land and he will still be standing. It may not be necessary from a meta perspective, hell I dont run DS with it, but it's basically a whole playstyle option bundled into one talent point. Some of us dont care about damage taken, long as we get to extraction.
Stunstorm should have gone to veteran. Smoke hurts veterans vision and would be more useful on the melee zealot (if it was any good anyway.)
HONESTLY YES. GOD SMOKES ARE SO ASS.
I think the idea they were going with was using the highlight skill and smokes but both aren't that good on their own or together
Stunstorm is so situational, it can save a clutch but 99% of time you get nothing from it
Maybe it's niche, but with book + beacon of purity pox gas missions are alot less annoying
Stun nades are good if you play with randoms and want THEM to stay alive. I only need them for *myself* if I run myself into some corner like an idiot. Stun nades basically calm randoms down and give them time to think, instead of having 2 of them die, trying to rez the third one under Crusher/Mauler overheads. Main problem is their location on the skill tree.
As for Immolation nades, the only use case I found for them is the Pox Hound modifier missions. If you're alone, don't have a choke point, have a heavy melee weapon and a slow ranged weapon, throwing a flame nade will save you lots of trouble. However, considering the sheer quantity of very specific factors for use, I never felt like picking it is a good idea. Also, I still see players get confused by the flames and thinking it's enemy fire. So it's on the same level as smoke when it comes to fucking over the visibility for your team lmao
Idk, maybe if Immolation could burn off trapper nets or ignite pox gas(without friendly fire), I'd pick it just because I am bad with throwing knives.
I just woke up what a nice way to start the day.
what pisses me off about going for duelist is that while the other two nodes in the same column are right after the stat boost node, duelist has an extra stat boost node in front which means if you're coming off knives and going for duelist you're spending 4 points on stat boost nodes to get to it whereas is you were coming off the upgraded shock nade you spend 3 to get to dance of death.
that said duelist is just so strong it's worth it anyway but that one point alone shut down a really nice build idea I had
Anecdote here, in any FPS I love binding my grenades and melees to my mouse thumb buttons, so binding the melee special attack and grenade makes throwing knives and power sword on/chainsaw revs/ dueling sword stab/etc really easy to aim and activate under duress for me
I just started playing Darktide not too long ago and chose Zealot because it looked most interesting to me. After looking over the skill tree to see what looked interesting and what looked optimal, I'm happy to report that so far my build is exactly what you've suggested in this video. The only thing I'm worried about is sucking with the throwing knives at first, but my countless days of Counter Strike back in high school should help me shake the rust off a little faster lol
I recommend changing the Blitz key (which is what the throwing knives are) to C instead of G
@@Nereosis16 I have it set to side mouse (the other side button to weapon special)
@@Nereosis16 I have it bound to one of my side mouse buttons that way I can use them while staying focused on mobility/repositioning. I don't like having to take a finger off the movement keys to use them
Good video; a lot of good tips for a returning player looking to get into Havoc. One thing I find confusing is that you call chorus mid, and I watched your video for 40 Havoc and chorus/bubble seemed to be critical to tackling objectives. From a meta standpoint, chorus seems pretty important for high level play, not just mid.
I like chorus though, really like a "oh shit" button for me and my teammates, but I am not even a maelstrom player
Hey if you're open to ideas, I think a video on crisis management in Darktide would be helpful for newer players, especially now that ps5 players are joining in. This is just my experience, but when it comes to newer players, I notice they just crack under the pressure when shit hits the fan. Their builds may be good and they've got the basics down but they panic, hesitate, freeze, or get overwhelmed.
So when, as an example, two of their teammates are down, a bunch of maulers and crushers are heading their way, a beast of nurgle spawned, they're low on health, and their stuck in that jail building on the train assassination map, but there is also a medicae with charges nearby. Personally, I'd take the medicae and back away to a more open area where I can properly kite and dodge the boss and mobs, but I've seen noobs just charge forward, with low hp mind you, and tunnel vision on the boss while the mobs just swarm and down them.
The reason why this is specific is that it actually happened, I was left alone to clutch after the other guy charged ahead. This is just something I think newer players need to learn but almost noone has content out to address it.
0:45. wait a min, how you are supposed to stack 5 times then? hit 5 mobs to reach 5 stacks then lose them right away after next attack???????? who designed this shit
it's called... cleave
@@droolbob4447Right, but even when cleaving 5 mobs every swing you still only get the damage buff half the time. Because the swing that has the buff does not reapply the buff.
Came here to learn, stayed for the humor.
Gun to head: "TELL ME THE DEFINITION OF IMPACT IN DARKTIDE WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP"
Had me rolling ngl
Stun storm is strictly a clutch/revive tool. If you’ve got a survivalist vet in the group to regen revolver, I really don’t find myself using the throwing knives very much. That said, sucks the left side is kinda poopy.
Woah, a Master Class by Big T! TY VM, lad.
fully agree on the knife blitz, I only started using the knife to penance farm, went from getting maybe 5 kills a game with knife to like 25-30 a game over the course of the penance (get 500 kills with knife), and yes it just brings the class together
the main issue with immolation grenade is the enemies will actively avoid it so if you throw it down preemptively the enemies will just walk around it, or literally just go back in the door and come out the door behind you.
but the main problem with grenades in general is the fuse time, by the time they even pop, your allies have killed 80-90% of what would have been affected
one thing i want to point out about throwing knives and improving their consistency: if the target is at the same elevation as the player (which isnt always but a good reference point), within 15m, the knife will hit wherever the crosshair is pointed at. this has SIGNIFICANTLY helped me improve my aim with throwing knives. i went from missing like 75% of the time to nailing gunners like its my god damn job.
remember, kids, if the target is within 15m and is on your level, just aim for the head.
Personally, the fact the crusher’s unyielding damage is so high(can easily one shot bulwark with h1 with some rampage stacks) really throws me and pushes it for me into the op catagory
Beacon of Purity could heal double the corruption and unlock wounds but still be useless for the simple fact if you are going down in the higher difficulties teammates probably are unable to revive you unless you are going down to lone crushers or something hidden in the shadows.
The only positive thing I can say about Restoring Faith is that when you are playing Martyrdom, if you find yourself at one wound, or put yourself there on purpose for max stacks, taking small amounts of chip damage gets mitigated a bit by it, not by any significant margin, but it does also tend to result in situations like you getting hit by a higher damage attack, Until Death/Holy Revenant popping, and then you heal past that one wound with both Restoring Faith and Holy Revenant.
As I said, it's not very good, and you do lose stacks - though you don't NEED all of Martyrdom's stacks outside of really excessive breakpoints - but it's something? I still wouldn't really take this if I could, but Martyrdom in general - the entire playstyle, that is - needs a look in because the keystone doesn't work nearly as well as the Saltz Zealot concept did in VT2 just because of the different mechanics.
I'd say Dance of Death is most noticeable when you dodge a Plague Ogryn or Chaos Spawn and then mag dump into its face. It's real easy to keep it on target with the buff. This, of course, will also proc Duellist as well.
I do agree benediction is way better then loner. However if your going to use shroudfield, I find having to go all the way back across the tree for it too heavy a point tax.
Thank you for gracing us with so much in-depth knowledge and analysis.
Mister L is the gold standard when it comes to Darktide.
P. S. Let's push Steam to open gaming powercouple of the year award category so we can vote for Mister E and Mister L
This and the veteran video gave been really insightful. Do you plan on doing one for yhe psyker?
I'm Desperation's biggest fan. Mostly because I'm the world's worst stamina manager. Basically it's a free 20% damage at the start of every engagement because i sprint in with zero stamina.
Would have been worth mentioning the animation cancelling of blades for bolter and flamer.
I still completely disagree with your opinion on Until Death (and holy Revenant). I think that the better you get at the game, the more value you can derive from those 5s of invulnerability. I think having a safety net that's online every 2 minutes (which really is not that long of a cooldown, imo) that quite literally negates death only gets more value as you get better at the game, as you can accomplish more in those 5 seconds. You have enough time to comprehend what happened, to potentially get out of an otherwise run-ending situation, and even in co-op play it's beneficial because preventing your death can also prevent a domino effect from occurring where everyone on the team starts dropping like flies because they had to take their focus away from a difficult situation to then have to try and pick you up (anecdotally, I have observed that it really isn't people's first thought to just let a downed teammate die and rescue them at a safer interval, most people do try to go out of their way to force a revive, even if it isn't always the best course of action). Taking Duelist and then Until Death + Holy Revenant is only a single extra point of investment to move down the tree, and I think what it gives you is infinitely more valuable than +20% damage for 5s when out of stamina (which, again anecdotally, running out of stamina is a scenario that rarely ever happens unless I am intentionally spamming pushes with the Crusher or something). I would concede that Holy Revenant isn't as valuable as Until Death, but i think that in practice, it really is nice having the ability to get out of invulnerability with more than a single point of HP left (which would leave you vulnerable to like, one gunshot and one melee attack, and so you end up immediately dying anyway).
Have to agree with that.
If you don't go down then it's just wasted points that can be spent else where
i get how u feel but i think that the better you get at the game u do the more u don't have to use this perk cuz u will always think about position,priority,map knowledge with all of this and some skill play u HP will never be low enough to use Untill Death,I mean i play without Untill Death and i im not the best player still always out score board everyone.
@TannerLindberg It's down to personal preference, then. My own opinion of it is that there is not another single point investment along Zealot's "meta" path that is more impactful than outright negating death. If you're playing the game properly, not going out of your way to die lol, then yeah, it's a "dead" skill, because it's a safety net, but when shit goes bad enough for it to see use (and with all the dumb audio issues and latency shit, things will inevitably go bad in one game or another) you're really glad that you have it. And when things dont go bad, you wish you hadn't of taken it. I, personally, prefer to be "better safe than sorry" and take it anyway even if i dont plan on seeing any use out of it. Obviously a stretch of a comparison, but more of a mindset; but I would compare taking Until Death to be akin to wearing a helmet at a work site. Sure, 99% of the time you're not getting 10 gajillion kilogram bricks dropped on your head, you're working in such a way where you don't actively put yourself in a postion to have a 10 gajillion kg brick hit your head, but the *one* time it does happen, you're glad that the helmet saved you from what would have been a fatal injury.
This is basically everything I said about it. I dont know why pointing out that until death is mostly a dead node causes this reaction.
Like o said I played 5 games with it didn't need it in a single one id rather just move the point else where
I find immolations are decent at just clearing out smaller things so that they don’t get in the way of elites and specials. Not so useful at the highest level perhaps, but I find it a lot easier to deal with isolated elites than I do elites surrounded by little guys. Useful for groups of crushers that someone shoots in the middle of a horde, or for covering flank while you deal with elites in a horde when you can’t rely on teammates to do so.
Still watching but had a thought:
Perk that makes you take 40% less damage on the damage that takes you into the next wound.
Perk that heals back 20% of the damage you take.
Is it possible for that 20% to bring you back above a wound?
Muted? ( I'll never be him )
The 20% attack speed buff of Fury is actually WAY better than the 20% damage increase of Ecclesiarch's Call even though both sound like a 20% DPS increase on paper. Since you're already hitting your breakpoints if your build isn't terrible, the attack speed provides 20% more DPS _and_ kills per minute, while 20% damage usually only provides a real-world DPS increase on bosses
on toughness regen speed for zealot specifically, i think a lot of meta builds tend to only have two main ways to regenerate toughness; second wind, and your ability. So taking a toughness regen speed perk can be a decent option if the other option you're considering is something like +toughness, +revive speed, or one of the damage resistances. Still not the best, and it sucks you need three whole curio perks to get it to a reasonable bonus, but if you're looking for more ways to regen toughness building it is an option
It only works while in stealth though, the issue is the slots turning it off completely if anything is near you
Would appreciate some “idiots guide” just going over and explaining the basics of how the class works so I could then apply that knowledge to the meta.
Cool video tho!
on taking your advice ive noticed ill be pinned by ranged enemies sometimes and have barley any toughness regen. not saying your wrong, it is noticeable for a more passive player with stiff fingers lol, gotta get use to it esecially while using chorus
New game:
Take a shot every time tanner says generally or genuinely. 😵💫
I think they just need to do away with coherency, you should just get a flat toughness regen speed up to a certain cap then you gotta rely on talents or kills. Each coherency node would need to be reworked but honestly with the system just gone i feel it would open up way more options for useless nodes.
wait thats what the knock down thing did, I had the on for so long and I only now know why dogs would just get knocked off of me...
This is longer than many movies.......a mammoth, meta, magnum opus of min-maxing.
Thanks 👍
Beacon of purity is great in havoc, the team need to stick together and there's so much corruption in the game mode that being able to heal it is really helpful.....
Also impact is really REALLY good, with literally any weapon you want to use 2 light attacks at 55% impact strength staggers a crusher which gives you time to either hit with a heavy or back out
yeah this video was made before havoc
Laspistol (the old one) imo is a top 5 zealot weapon. Crazy boss damage when you crit, pairs well with blazing piety.
15:43 the only use i found with flaming grenade is combo with banishing the light, you ignite mobs, using your skill, to control and hold, so your newbie pub randoms have a breath to reload their guns
Loving these in-depth looks at the skill trees. Can you do one for Psyker too? Also as a newer player, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on "Levelling builds" and if/how they're different compared to someone who say has every class maxed with every weapon unlocked.
Tanner, I really appreciate your long guides
As a player only a month in who is a try hard, I really like knowing exactly what the value of talents are and why. I used to think Enemies Within, Enemies Without was a great perk, and I took Disdain literally just for EWEW. Also had Anointed With Blood. Now I've got 3 free points in my build
I also like that you're being nicer :)
I do request an ogryn video like this at some point. You started with Vet, which is my least favourite class, then bounced to my favourite class of Zealot XD. Now I'm hoping you get to Ogryn then psyker at some point
Happy Holidays!
Perfectly timed. About to start Zealot and wanted to know which perks just didn't function. lmao.
indignatus crusher is the only reason im still playing bonktide.
How is that weapon fun?
@@U.U-lw4ee bonk
@@JohnSmith-j7n i tried it i just cant make it work.
Are you over looking perhaps, the double barrel shotgun for the emperor's bullet perk? Still won't be very good but not the worst thing in the world for a certain kind of playstyle that involves switching to mele and gun continually. Double barrel shotgun also has the blessing for 70% faster reload after making a kill with both barrels.
As a martyrdom player, I feel vindicated by your talk about martyrdom. Nothing else in the game makes me feel like a lore accurate Eversor assassin, but also, nothing else in the game makes me feel like a tabletop Eversor assassin who's a few dice rolls away from dying.
Thanks, really helpful!
I recently got really into zaelot, specially with the new sword, after playing almost 1k hours on Veteran mostly.
Got a feeling that this skilltree needs some redoing as well. Psyker got one I think, so the only route isnt THAT. :D
I always take Until Death. I'm not a pro, not what would people call "a great player". If anything, i consider myself to be a turbo casual. Until Death just gives such a nice safety net just in case stuff doesn't go as i envisioned it would go, or when i just missplay, and two minutes CD is low enough for it to be available somewhat readily.
Yeah i don't think until death is bad
It saved me often enough. Poxburster, overhead out of a blob of crushers, or a silent one. Zealot only gets angrier.
I think Beacon of Purity can be useful on Nurgle's Blessing missions where the AI can spawn multiple beasts of nurgle.
Amazing breakdown. I will say, when ur one shotting enemies scourge is not always up, so I find scourge is not the most consistent + 30 percent crit chance.
I really like the chain weapons because I love WH40K. The entire setting is over the top science fantasy and it's not any harder for me to suspend disbelief for the chain weapons than it is to do the same for the bolter or the entire concept of psykers. Chainweapons are a suboptimal pick, but they're a FUN pick and in the hands of a competent player will work pretty well. They could use a buff though. Personally I think the movement speed on chain weapon rev should be standard, not a blessing, and that would make them a much stronger pick and a more viable weapon for things like Maelstrom.
nice, i trust these more than other similar vids since you actually check if stuff works or not instead of trusting fat shark to be able to code
48:00 My 2 cents on how to rework it: +15% damage vs infested and unyielding for everyone in coherency. Completely different thing but it's also thematic for purification.
Reasoning: Huge buff vs hordes and bosses for the whole team. That's like everyone gets 3/5 of 2 free weapon damage perks on BOTH their weapons. It might be too much, but I think it needs to be on the stronger side given the awkward talents above it that you're forced to take to get it. It really needs something in that ballpark, I think. Am I wrong? Feel free to tell me. Maybe 10%?
Plus, the purification you're doing in this game is hitting things until they're dead and not exactly healing corruption from people. It's way more thematic as a "Beacon of Purity" kind of thing for 40k.
So the Psyker tree update is coming right? 🙏
Right?
Beacon of Purity's only use now is to combat the corruption creep that the "Blight Spreads" havoc modifier hits you and your team with. Even then, not worth the points to get to it.
Great Vid. I would like to know/understand why the Combat Shotgun is considered so bad ? Can you/someone develop more on that particular weapon ? I do like to run it from time to time and its seem pretty fine to me. Thx.
For me, the reload speed could sometimes be slower than spearhead boltgun, which is a huge turnoff for me
I still like my suggestion of making the Martyrdom defensive node prevent toughness bleedthrough when on the last wound. Keep shit that can burn through like barrels, poxwalkers, flamer explosions, but that's it.
That would be ridiculously, mind-blowingly overpowered. Even with everything else removed from the keystone.
As somebody who uses a controller to play, using the throwing knives felt impossible to me since blitzes are bound to up on the d-pad. However, after downloading a controller rebind mod, I put blitzes on r1/rb and since then I can't go without knives. It's surprisingly easy to use them effectively on controller that way (most of the time).
As a zealot-related aside with weapons, I really wish heavy eviscerator wasn't so...well, heavy. Using weapons that make your movement so much worse and swing so slowly feels awful on Zealot, even with swing speed buffs from various class stuff. Though the chain weapons in general feel like they need some kind of rework to really be good. Sawing a dude in half is visually cool, but other weapons can do the same thing faster.
If chain weapons worked like the new 2H power sword and when active got a general damage/cleave buff but also applied like bleed on hit or rend on hit less then a blessing. they should do debuffs like some vermin tide weapons, they would still not be top tier but it would be something to build off of and fits what they are supposed to do in setting rip flesh(bleed DoT) and shred armor(rending). would have to rebalance blood letter blessing though.
ngl, i think.. mister E and you and some other people from the discords should just become a council to come up with various new nodes for the classes, so there's more build diversity
You don't actually think they would change Martyrdom like that right? I'm pretty sure they just think of it like this "haha if I HAPPEN to take damage it will make me stronger" thing that lets people go down a bunch of times.
Good video, the back and forth on momentum vs blazing piety is very funny. You mentioned the devils claw sword being good, how do you build that thing blessing and perk wise, because looking at the plethora of impact blessings leaves me ... whelmed.
I played with a guy named silly billy the other day.He was pretty good
I'm not saying these things are great or meta but here are some points worth considering if you like variety.
Vicious offering is fairly good if using the MK IX Heavy Sword as you're using heavies pretty much all the time and stun grenades aren't a terrible choice for a weapon with poor armour damage but then the choice is do you want a ranged weapon good at killing armour or fast at killing gunners.
Fortitude in fellowship actually works even when not in coherency making loner even more of a pointless node.
Impact may be pointless otherwise but for Ogryn it does mean two less heavy 1's (block cancel) with the shield on a crusher to knock it over, thats why I use middle grenade to also take Soften Them Up but for only one build.
When havoc comes out and you have time to play through it, these meta guides will be a lot more valuable (not that they aren't now lol). I guarantee that the metas will change for havoc from the way it sounds. Right now the game unfortunately isn't really difficult enough for the meta to need to be followed much at all by competent players, as most can get by with builds that are just for fun or memey with a competent team, even on maelstroms.
Also havoc may make coherency and team buffing more necessary, as getting split off and overwhelmed will likely be guaranteed if you try to play higher level havoc like you do auric. So things like shield of contempt and chorus may be a lot stronger picks
Anyways good video, I will be busy terrorizing the local shotgun we population with my double barrel shotgun veteran build until havoc rolls out
So brief comment on "Banishing Light", idk if its something with my setup but honestly even for staggering bosses, that pulse stagger feels extremely inconsistent. I've had matches where I locked down a Plague Ogryn or a Chaos Spawn for the entire duration of that burst, and I've had other times where I channel 3 pulses already, and the boss just gives me a big "Fuck You" and starts swinging right at me instead. Sometimes I wasn't paying attention and they knocked me out of the pulse early >:c
Tertium has fallen...
Billions must die...
27:38 Again 200% Correct but ever since this game can throw and will happen BS it makes like almost impossible to not take that, idk it might be only me again but god damn this saved me so many times(because of a certain bug that keeps happening and has not been fixed) that is hard to not take it but your point is valid about why you dont take it.
Psyker video when
Tomorrow for sure
Do you have any opinions on the Crusher? I've been loving it a lot and just wondering what your take is on it.
dumbass who didn't watch till the end of the video hi hello it's me
i like you funny words smart man
Very good and informative vid Mr. Lindburg. It’s very unfortunate to hear that Fatshark’s community managers have it out for you so hard tho…
So what would your final build recommendation be? Can you make one on gameslantern?
Very informative video, but could you turn the sweating down a tiny bit? I don't mind sweating in general but I got the feeling you're overdoing it a bit :P
Phrase of the day: Silly Billy