I'm only two minutes in, but my takeaway from this video is gonna be the workbench on wheels. It's brilliant. The thought has just never crossed my mind. I've just moved so while I'm moving tools and equipment into the garage, I'm gonna make one.
My Dad is religious about having wheels (castors) on pretty much everything in the shop and whatever he's using for storage. It's so convenient and makes things a lot simpler at times.
That’s a nice looking blade dude. Good job man. When they turn out like that, you can call yourself a professional knife maker. You do the heat treating everything yourself. Respect
@@Adriaan1987 Yes, engaged in a profession, ie making money from it by selling products or services. This is all a bit pedantic though, and I think we all agree that the knife looks great.
@@OUTDOORS55 showing us that moveable workstation was a hurtful flex ...we know you have all the "things"🤣). seriously, great videos. oh and are those knives for sale?
The thing you said about hanging a warped knife for 3 years cracked me up! It reminded me of a story my dad told me when I was a kid. He said the matadors used swords made from Toledo steel, and if they hit a bone and bent the tip the matador could hang the sword tip down and it would straiten the bend. I don't have any idea if it's true or not.
That’s so funny. Obviously steel won’t straighten out merely from gravity however it is amazing how powerful words are especially when it’s our parents words.
If gravity can _straighten_ a bend, then gravity can *make* a bend. You wouldn't be ably to hold the sword out straight without it flopping over -- if that story were true.
Wondering if that originated in some kind of hazing joke amongst matadors, like tell the new guy these blades can straighten themselves and bend it when he´s not looking.
At the factory, where I work, we put the parts we harden between two 200 kg blocks of steel. We also have precision grinding machines to get rid of whatever warp remains after. Having worked with proper tool steel, I can't tell you just how much harder it is to damage in any way. I once tried to debur a hardened work piece with a diamond file. Took me ten minutes of work on a single corner to have an effect that was even noticeable at all.
I'd take Vanadis 4 Extra for my mid size outdoors fixed blade knives and Elmax for my folders. Check the most boxes for me, even though it's the heat treatment and the bevels and edge geometries, that are far more important for me. I just mentioned what works better for me, after trying almost all the well known steels. If I didn't have the option of a Super steel, I would be perfectly fine, with a handforged Ballbearing steel on my fixed blades. Checks more boxes than them all. Properly done, easily the best steel for mid size outdoors knives.
True true. Hard and tough in combination. 4v, vanadis 4, or MagnaCut are great tough super steels and elmax or k390 or such for super wear resistance but tough enough works. I'm even fine with D2 but it's a shadow of the edge retention I could get in a folder for the minimum toughness. 80CrV2, 52100, or even lowly 1084 do good for toughness at higher hardness, just keep it sharp with a few passes now and then, you'd need to anyways since mild corrosion dulls it some.@@greekveteran2715
Great video as always! There's a reason why blade sports competitors use steels like M4, and not 420hc, n690co etc. Do you make commissioned knives?, I'd love to have a custom made by you
I'm a retired tool maker, and I made my moose skinner, and camp knife using 01 tool steel, ht to 60rc, and my knightly dagger and machete are made from a 1960s 10ft saw blade from a paper mill. It has a few points less carbon than 01, and I heat blued the back of the machete to temper it back to about 50rc. That blade of yours would give mine a run for it's money, but I wonder how it would handle moose, or grizzly hair, although, it handled everything you threw at it like a champ. That stabbing out a chip made shivers run up my spine, and was amazed that the tip still remained. Every factory made knife I've ever owned needed to be sharpened, every time I use it, and don't hold an edge any better than barbed wire. Your blade is the first I've seen in a long time, that you could call a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing.
👍👍 Great content even if some choose not to learn from it. I worked as an engineer for 24 years and still appreciate those who spend their time trying to help others. I spent 14 years on a gun forum trying to teach people how to build better rifles, reload and just choose higher performance parts instead of buying a name. In most cases it was a complete waste of time but, please continue some of us are interested in learning the ways of others. I looked for months trying to find a Magnacut with heatreat in that 63-64 range that Larrin recommends with no luck. It looks like I'll have to make some in AELb, 3V, cru-wear and MC then send them out for proper heat treat to see what they will really do.
Been everydaying a Spyderco Para 3 in Maxamet for a year and several months. It's just now needing to be stropped. My first experience with super steel has been exemplary.
Damn 64 hrc and no chipping. Would love to see how the work on chef knives and see how far they'll go before chipping and breaking. Im nodda fan of stainless but now I'm contemplating buying some aluminum plates.. Keep up the good work. I always look forward to your videos, you rock!
I wonder how hard it is to get a S grind on a supersteel. I could see it being a great kitchen knife if you’ve got a guy with the skills and equipment to sharpen it.
@@WARnTEAfor a kitchen knife stainless is quite important, so besides aebl/14c28n, magnacut is the only super steel that would make sense. A few makers make kitchen knives from it.
@@WARnTEA Speaking of kitchen knives; have you seen Rahven's HIC/elastic ceramic knives? The channel Cedra and Ada gear did a test on a prototype made out of this material and cut through sisal rope 2350 times (!!!!) before it dulled the knife enough that it didn't easily cut through a sheet of paper. Regular steel would go between 50 to 200 times before doing similar. Super steels like 300 to 500 times or so. Anyways, it's a type of elastic/flexible ceramic that has the best of both worlds-ceramics very, very high hardness but without the extreme brittleness. You can actually significantly flex these knives without breaking them. They are also super light weight and obviously non oxidizing/rusting. And unlike with the traditional ceramic knives, you can actually sharpen them fairly easily with diamond. I was surprised by how relatively inexpensive they were as well. I expected them to charge hundreds of dollars for these knives, but you can get a small pairing knife for around $19 US, and their largest knife around $70 US dollars (I'm quickly guesstimating conversion from CHF to USD). The only downside is that the shipping is expensive (they are located in Switzerland). But they have free shipping if you spend 100 CHF and over. (For me, the shipping would have been around $43 US, so I just bought as close to 100 CHF as I could). I wonder if they will ever transition over to other style of knives? They are probably still have significantly less toughness than most steels, but it might be interesting to see a San Mai version-have the core HIC and the 2 outer reinforcing sides, steel. Either way, sounds like it is amazing for at least kitchen knives now (I'm looking forward to receiving the ones I ordered).
Always love the vids and the information you provide. With any steel the proper heat treatment process brings out the best that steel has to offer. Supersteels are considered super for a reason whether it be those that focus on toughness, edge retention, stainless etc.. and a few that balance these qualities amazingly well and provide high marks in all categories. Such a great time to be into knives with all the options we have available and at different price points as well. Thanks for the great vid and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
I have ballbearing steel knives, that have very similar performance, with many super steels. Actually, the common user, will never know that it wasn''t a super steel used, because that's how good that steel properly made performs. Makes my CPM 3V blades look inferior. (Better edge retention, better edge stability, easier to sharpen, sharper edge) Only steel I like more, (for medium size fixed blades on outdoor knives) is the Vanadis 4 Extra, which I like more than CPM Cruwear.
@@greekveteran2715Edge stability matters for thin geometry, yeah. 14c28n would take the cake for general use edge stability for being tough and hard and stainless with just a tiny bit of miniscule carbide. Maybe 1v would do the same?
It's fun to see you making videos again where you make a knife. Great video bro, I really appreciated your perspective. My every-single-day-of-work knife is an old Spyderco Military in M4, probably around 61-62 HRC. It was so much better than all the 58 HRC M390 I'd ever had, and so far I've never changed it out (4 years running). There are better steels available now, like K390 etc, but my M4 is close enough to all the new stuff I haven't changed it yet. Really cool how you could manipulate hardwoods and cut down a 3 inch thick tree... That takes a functional edge man. Take care Alex.
I think spyderco is one of the few production knife companies that has their heat treatment figured out for the super steels. I own several m390 knives from other companies and one k390 delica. The delica has such better edge holding! I suspect the others are a lot softer HRC.
@@johnharris7353 Haha, whatever floats your boat bro. The tenacious is a great knife. I just wanted to let Alex know I've had a similar experience with M4. To be honest your Velveeta consumption is a greater worry to me than your usage of a Tenacious 😜
My first super steel was cpm3v... before that I was used to 440, d2 and 1095. The bushcraft community had me thinking that 1095 was one of the best steels. But after going to work with 3v every day... I realized that technology was my friend Edit: If my favorite knife was magically transformed into a D2 blade; I'd still carry it. But I prefer my supersteels 1,000% :)
This video, with your choices of sound clips and editing make it look and feel almost like a Quentin Tarantino movie, or in other words - a fun, bubbly, entertaining masterpiece! Love it! Thank you so much for that! Subscribed!
Another excellent explanation of knives and steel..and how many elements of knife making have to come together in order to make a great knife. The knife you made Alex seems to tick all the boxes…love how the handle looks as well. Impressive! MikeR.
I... Didn't really hear any explanations about why those steels are worth it. Like, what are the *reasons* the steel is "better"? Why does it retain it's edge better? Is it harder? Why isn't it brittle if so?
M4 is one of my favorite steels. I have a big old Benchmade I think contego in cpm M4 and it's super nice. I feel like I've lucked out on most of my knives with heat treatment except for one in s35vn which seems freaking soft! I also have noticed a big difference in s30v in 2 different Spyderco knives. One is awesome and will take a hair whittling sharpening and hold it while the other just doesn't want to get as sharp ever and seems to need attention more often.
I think knifesteelnerds explained the likely reason for this in a collab with another creator if you're interested. Something with carbide structure iirc
Great video, as always brother. I started making knives because of you and almost* all of my knowledge has came from you. You're a great teacher as well man, you should think about doing an in depth knife making course locally as well as online, I think it would really take off, especially now that more folks are getting back into bushcraft and bushcrafting knives/gear. I really want your heat treat protocol for that M4 man, I was just talking to a buddy about M4 two days ago and wether or not I should use that or CPM-3V. I love it man ! Have a great day brother!
Been packing a spyderco police 4 k390 and like you were saying it’s hard to go back even after zdp189 hap40 cpm s90v the k390 has just been night and day been over a year sharpened once stropped several times… it’s just amazing
Recently I got a little EDC knife with 4" Magnacut blade @ 65RC and tested it the way I usually do... processing game. If you ever processed a boar you know how hard they are on knives and I got two of them the other night. Went trough both of them, bone and everything (chest and pelvis) and absolutely no damage to the edge. Some stropping and was back to shaving. Since the knife was small and I couldn't get a good grip and a lever I had to baton trough the pelvis bones. 3V is usually my steel of choice but it doesn't even compare.
I haven't worked with magnacut yet but will at some point. I think they have the heat treat figured out now as it seems some makers we're having issues with it at first. But again I believe that is in the past. Glad to hear some feedback on it under real world use👍
That looked like a verry good heat treatment job. I am from Toronto Canada.I used to work at a company called Deisel Equiptment LTD. I once made a knife from a broken auger saw blade. All I did was grind the blade to shape (including the edge) and put the holes for the rivets (copper)with a torch. and used the torch to heat the edge brite red and dropped it in gear grease,made a handle (full tang) from red oak and someone baught the thing from me for $200.00 and we could`nt dammage it,we tried.And it didnt warp or chip (EVER). The guy used it for ROOFING,talk about ABUSE,Good job on that knife. 🙂
Quite impressive. And the shape of the blade is, in my opinion, ideal for turning game into meat. It's the size and shape I use for gutting and skinning. There's a second folding knife that's smaller for gutting as well. Thanks for the info!
This is true love outdoors55 . I think making your own knives is the way to go if possible . No wonder why so many enthusiasts get into making knives . It’s a great hobby imo .
Might want to think about making some bolt on scales for all your test blades. Especially if all your blades are the same pattern. Even aluminum scales would be easier on your hand than the bare tang and you can’t break aluminum, but micarta would probably hold up as well.
I don’t have any experience with custom super steels but I’ve been thoroughly impressed with all the factory knives I have in it . Every steel has its place but I’ll never go back to traditional steels for my hunting knives .
Damn! Now I REALLY want an M4 scandi-grind fixie as my go-to bushcraft knife!!! Wow that really is incredible performance. And another great video, thank you.
I am 37 and my father has made knives as long as I can remember. I have seen a lot of nice knives but have not wanted any as much as I want that knife... but with a nice brass guard(front quillon only) Very nice job. How Do I Make One?
Time tested,Tried and true, trial and error method to figure out the cooling plate set up and method ,good stuff mate ,well done ,saved other lots of time ,thank you :)
I'm only a hobbyist and noticed that problem laying the blank down first as the first problem you have shown, Agree Wow❤ As for the blade. Not for the handle, just a maddle of choice but well made . Can I use cheap oils for the quenching is the major question, Sir I'm subscribed now Thanks you got my attention now 😂 Thanks
M4 my precious. CPM M4 and Bohler K390 are my absolute favorite steels. Haven't tried any of the steels of the last 5 years to compare them to. As you say, its pretty hard to go back. Also, I think I am going to build a workbench with wheels.... Brilliant idea
I haven't used it yet, so far I've worked on A36 (cheapo practice steel), 1095 and 440c. I've tried to find some super-alloy blanks, but I can only seem to find them available in large - and very expensive - portions.
Also too many people judge a steel based on the factory edge when the performance can noticeably increase after a few sharpenings for a production knife.
I know it's not really on topic of video but I absolutely enjoy your rolling workshop that's probably the coolest rolling double-sided work environment I've ever seen great job
Super steels rock! Love Hitachi super blue for the kitchen, but Spyderco is one of the reliable heat treaters of new and exotic steels. I'll try new steels after some reviews, then get a Spyderco model in that type. Excellent video. Try a Scandi edge on the next one. ✌
I am here for some advice. I heat treated my knife, tempered it, hand sanded and polished the blade to a mirror finish. And realise I didn't drill no fooken pin holes for the handle. It's a file knife and the serrations are still there... Can I just epoxy wood to it? What would you do in this situation? Btw your videos helped me get a super sharp and durable edge on this knife. Bloody epic.
The funny thing about plate quenching like that is that it's like a janky fixture lol. You need a lot of pressure that's evenly distributed and hard to do if you don't have a good setup. I work with a lot of these materials
What you made, looks like MAGIC!! I have a benchmade CPM M4 folder (popular about 7 years ago,),, and honestly,, don't think it's special at all.. It not hard to sharpen (stone, diamond plate, doesn't matter.) doesn't stay sharp whittling away at soft wood.... will give it a chance again and see if my opinion changes.
Hey Man I do like your videos a lot. They make me going in the workshop and try doing some hot knifes just like yours. Thanks for inspiration and a happy new Year. May 2024 be the year of finding the the wholy grail of the supersteel that fits all.
@@gilbertopadilla3611 lmao. know im a knife, AND CONTENT CREATOR. lol yeah i should've proofread that. Mainly posting on tikotk, but I'm trying to step up my youtube game. plus i need the money, just a got anew vehicle, and a p365xMacro
Great video. One thing I don't like about the handle of the knife, there's no hand guard or however that part is called that prevents the palm from slipping onto the blade when the knife is pushed. It's all well and good if the knife is dry but once it's used in some wet environment and the handle gets slippery, it's just one bad thrust and your fingers can get sliced pretty good. Still, the blade itself is an awesome piece of fully functional art and the sharpness is pure marvel.
I've wanted to start messing around with some of these higher grade steels, I will need to send the blades out for heat treating but that's just one less headache for me, I certainly cannot afford the setup here. I like the idea of a truly durable blade. Love the handle by the way!
Im right there with you, I just graduated from O1 to AEB-L due to a new kiln, have just put my first handle on and am hand sanding that at the moment, keen to see how it works out, but I must say its a lot harder to work the soft steel, my blades stayed straight but I clamped them, might try your vice method, I had actually considered that before I saw your video but was worried about dropping them on the floor as I put them in the vice...
If you are using AEB-L use Roman Landes heat treat recipe . Cliff Stamps website used to have the recipe but since he passed away the website is no more. It may still be about on one of the knife forums somewhere .
I heard you say there are better steels out now, but that depends on what you're prioritizing. I had never previously considered CPM-M4 as a material I'd like in a knife until watching this video and researching CPM-M4. M4 looks like it's the absolute best knive steel in terms of having both edge retention and toughness. I don't see anything else that even rivals M4 if you prioritize both those attributes. So, its corrosion resistance is low, and its ease of sharpening is low (on paper). You said that it wasn't particularly tough to sharpen, and with edge retention like that, you'd sharpen less anyway. I personally don't care all that much about corrosion resistance, at least not when I could have a tough knife with incredible edge retention. I imagine there are coatings to help with corrosion resistance. I'm very excited about the CPM-M4. Thank you so much for showcasing it for us!
To help with warping I also don't do any pregrinding other than profiling the knife and do all my grinding after. I wet grind with new ceramic belts and it is not that bad or maybe I am just used to it. Any pregrinding can increase chances of a warp. Love all your vids! P.S. M4 is tough stuff.
Great stuff. I like the heritage steels. Saw blades and wrenches, springs & files, wagon wheel tyre for wrought, or anchor chain… discs from the farm, old stuff turned into useful tools. The new high tech stuff is super. I like the old. Peace
Very interesting findings, and it make so much sense. One day when I am lucky enough to make my own knives one day I will remember your wise words and experiments. Thank you
That looks like a pretty useful knife, I didn't know any knife could do some of the things you showed. Could part of the confusion about steel types not only be due to differently carried out heat treatment, but also that some online stores may claim a different steel just because of them being trending?
Many steels have poor heat treatments, and cheap knives may lie about steel type. Plus, most generic knives go overly soft to try to prevent returns for chips, same for going too acute for edge geometry. You need hard, fine geometry, and a good heat treatment for a steel to go from poor to great. Even 420hc from a quality buck knife with a thinned angle will outcut a lot of poorer knives even in D2 with awful heat treats and thick wedge bevels.
yes M4 my favorite steel i use it for my personal hunting knives you might want to try a sand blast finish. It looks really good and you can skip the higher grit sanding 120 grit is the highest i go then sand blast with a cheap harbor freight sand blaster screen some dry sand from your yard and your golden
Again appreciate the honesty and balanced approach in your videos vs the usual over simplified all hype haters vs steel type marketing koolaid fans single value is only thing that matters crowd. It is made worse by not only do folks compare crap heat treats, but blame the steel for their sharpening ability and wrong choice of gear like using soft bond al oxide stones on high carbide super steels. I also find most steels tend to lose that razor edge in similar amount of time and seem similar in say kitchen use when it is touched up a lot and not seeing hard work much, but on a work knife cutting likes of 11mm static rope, wood, 4mm leather, cardboard etc I find modern super steels are still cutting and work sharp long after the likes of 12c27 and aebl have become completely useless
Cheap knife consumers- "a $500 + knife is stupid. No maker is worth that. Custom Maker- Forge was on for 8 hrs... Before labor. Before belts. Art is pretty and some functional, but ain't cheap. Keep up the amazing work !
I made a blade from M3 HSS, and it's plenty tough and easy to get hair-popping sharp. A strange thing I am still investigating is that I can store it very sharp for a few months, and it loses sharpness. It's stored in dry, stable temperature and humidity, and there are no visible signs of rust or corrosion.
Hoping to get a heat treating oven soon, just wondering what your opinion on the best outdoor/survival knife steel is. We're moving to 100 acres of Forrest so I must make my wife a beautiful knife
Isn’t the trouble with supersteels that they can be more difficult to sharpen where 420hc can be sharpened with just a stone you pick up off the ground or some river clay rubbed into the cut face of a log?
Will be nice if you sell those knives. How much would you charge for one? You’re a legit dude, I hope that you sell them at a reasonable price, and that way you take the lead in making them. This knife you showed here is better than 99% of comercial knives
What temperature did you temper at? Was all 3 cycles at the same temperature? I’m amazed at how well it held up and only lost 1 point below full hardness.
Loved this video, because it tempts me to go try some superman vs winter soldier steel, but I have 2 huge deterrents: 1. If I lose a cruwear or maxamet knife I will sink into a deep cripling depression of which I will be on the 5 O’ clock news 2. Some one grabs it real quick to do something stupid like pry and it snaps in half, which is the same result, the 5 O’ clock news, but now I’ve committed manslaughter
Fair analysis, thank you. Have you considered modes of failure at the edge? When I look at knife edges with a microscope I find chipping or rolling in most steels, not abrasion. This suggests that toughness or yield strength is lacking but abrasion resistance is adequate. Toughness is determined using a Charpy or similar. I like the highest hardness (strength) available that doesn't chip in the intended use (handheld, random materials, not held in a fixture on clean materials like a CATRA) with the desired edge geometry. Large carbides and high carbide volumes don't tend to deliver this. Now I run edges thinner than many (12dps or less on choppers usually ffg, less than .030" behind the edge), because I like cutting ability, so that might be a large part of what's going on. I have also wondered if the heat resistance of many "supersteels" is coming into play as so few blades are finish ground wet, and perhaps simple steels are being overheated at grinding. 😀
It can be tough to dial in what causing chipping/ rolling. Geometry definitely plays a roll. I've found simply adding 1 degree per side can fix an issue. But you also can't rull out fixing it with heat treatment either. But sometimes you are just at the limit of what that steel is capable of🙂
You can get Japanese kitchen knives made with these super steel like hep40, zdp 189, or cowry-x quite easily hardened from Rc 65 to 67. They are great. Not brittle, tough and holds an edge for months with daily kitchen use. They are not particularly tough to sharpen either due to their thin edges. They are very good and I would say better than the traditional hitachi blue or white label carbon steel. Whether they are worth the extra price is really in the eye of the owner. Many would say $1000 for a chef knife is just crazy but some won’t think twice.
I know nothing about plate hardening, but my gut says that the contact will be with the spine, cooling the spine more rapidly than the edge which is the opposite of what one usually wants which is a harder edge and a tougher, more flex accepting spine??
Sir, I started pricing everything out to start making my own custom knives and after much research I’ll never complain about the price of a knife again for sure !!!!!!
I grind (mostly) M4 at work. We use hydraulic grinding machines and coolant. A Tormec may make grinding the edges easier, and a small wet grinder would grind the flats with ease. Both can be had for pretty cheap (if $500+ is cheap). A surface grinder would work also, just have to go slow- let it cool off between passes. M4 is great, we use it to cut steel. Nice work on the knife!
@James Barisitz I'm not sure about hot or cold sheering, I'm not sure that applies to what I'm doing. I make broaches. They are used to progressively cut splines or shapes into holes, pulled through the (usually) steel parts with a hydraulic machine. Heat treat is between 64-66, and we only take a few thousandths per tooth. It's really fulfilling, getting to make something so precise and see the end result.
With all the efort and skills you put into your blades OD55 I was quite expecting to see a few drops of your own blood being the secret to preventing warping. Great to watch a Master Craftsman at work.
Well this is what ive said all along. Also, Larrin's graph is great but people think all knives represent those numbers and thats not true because there can be much better or much worse depending on the protocol and techniques. And most mass production knives won't even match or come close to those charts. They could, but they dont know what to do.
Absolutely. I believe the samples he tested are all treated to his, or the manufacturer's protocol. It definitely doesn't apply as a blanket representation of what all the steels are capable of. Also as hardness increases so does edge retention. So every sample is only indicative of the hardness tested.🙂
It's pretty simple. The more resistant a knife is to sharpening, the more resistant it is to dulling. If you want a light-duty knife, that you can keep extremely sharp, you want an easier sharpening steel. If you want a knife that will stay reasonably sharp for a long time, you want a harder sharpening steel.
Am looking for one. To own, not sell, (but I would pass it down) Blade 6.5" 10.5" overall. Can make own handles. No serrations needed. Will be adding brass or nickel at both ends of handle, so no glass breaker needed How much?
Now my question is : what is more important : steel or heat treatment ? Would you rather have a super steel not so well heat treated or a regular steel with a great heat treatment ?
Just well said. Super steel haters will have a tough time refuting your presentation of facts. Totally agree with hating the heat treatment. Great video. The “shop on wheels” was great too
I have a couple high end super steel knives and they're amazing. Maybe they've been hyped too much and expectations were exaggerated. While performance is undeniably better, the difference is not like going from bronze to steel. I'll continue carrying my Spyderco super steel lock blades while making beasts out of more forgiving tool steels because I don't have the tech for those super-specific heat treatments.
I'm only two minutes in, but my takeaway from this video is gonna be the workbench on wheels. It's brilliant. The thought has just never crossed my mind. I've just moved so while I'm moving tools and equipment into the garage, I'm gonna make one.
I don't have any space to put such a workbench but I immediately wanted one. Such an elegant solution.
My Dad is religious about having wheels (castors) on pretty much everything in the shop and whatever he's using for storage. It's so convenient and makes things a lot simpler at times.
Yeah, if you were moving shops, just wheel it out the door onto a trailer, haul it to the new place, and unload it. Done.
You just made me remember I got 6 spare wheels. Great for my welders
Every machine in my shop is on casters. Its great.
That’s a nice looking blade dude. Good job man. When they turn out like that, you can call yourself a professional knife maker. You do the heat treating everything yourself. Respect
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words 🙏
No,😊 if you sell one you are a professional.
@@Freeknickers24 no, a person engaged or qualified in a profession is called a professional.
@@Adriaan1987 Yes, engaged in a profession, ie making money from it by selling products or services. This is all a bit pedantic though, and I think we all agree that the knife looks great.
@@OUTDOORS55 showing us that moveable workstation was a hurtful flex ...we know you have all the "things"🤣). seriously, great videos. oh and are those knives for sale?
The thing you said about hanging a warped knife for 3 years cracked me up! It reminded me of a story my dad told me when I was a kid. He said the matadors used swords made from Toledo steel, and if they hit a bone and bent the tip the matador could hang the sword tip down and it would straiten the bend. I don't have any idea if it's true or not.
That’s so funny. Obviously steel won’t straighten out merely from gravity however it is amazing how powerful words are especially when it’s our parents words.
Lol, if that worked I would be seriously concerned about the quality of Toledo steel.
If gravity can _straighten_ a bend, then gravity can *make* a bend.
You wouldn't be ably to hold the sword out straight without it flopping over -- if that story were true.
Wondering if that originated in some kind of hazing joke amongst matadors, like tell the new guy these blades can straighten themselves and bend it when he´s not looking.
@@nilsschenkel7149 exactly like going to home depot for cement softener or blinker fluid lmao
At the factory, where I work, we put the parts we harden between two 200 kg blocks of steel. We also have precision grinding machines to get rid of whatever warp remains after.
Having worked with proper tool steel, I can't tell you just how much harder it is to damage in any way. I once tried to debur a hardened work piece with a diamond file. Took me ten minutes of work on a single corner to have an effect that was even noticeable at all.
Havent found a video on this subject as compressive and transparent as this one. What a journey you are on.
Your portable workstation on wheels is an awesome idea. I need to make one of those. Good informative video as always.
Just my thoughts! :D
yeeeah i thought that was neat, too
I'm convinced that M4, k390 and magnacut are all the steels we ever really need for carry knives these days. We live in great times as steel nerds.
I'd take Vanadis 4 Extra for my mid size outdoors fixed blade knives and Elmax for my folders. Check the most boxes for me, even though it's the heat treatment and the bevels and edge geometries, that are far more important for me. I just mentioned what works better for me, after trying almost all the well known steels.
If I didn't have the option of a Super steel, I would be perfectly fine, with a handforged Ballbearing steel on my fixed blades. Checks more boxes than them all. Properly done, easily the best steel for mid size outdoors knives.
Cru-wear is also an excellent steel.
Big blades: V4E, 3V, CruWear;
Medium blades: Magnacut, Elmax, M4;
Small blades: K390, M398, Magnacut.
Honorable (budget) mentions: 14C28N, N690, 154CM, D2
@@mikafoxx2717totally, CruWear is basically M4 but with slightly lower edge retention but a lot more toughness. It's a good trade-off for many.
True true. Hard and tough in combination. 4v, vanadis 4, or MagnaCut are great tough super steels and elmax or k390 or such for super wear resistance but tough enough works.
I'm even fine with D2 but it's a shadow of the edge retention I could get in a folder for the minimum toughness. 80CrV2, 52100, or even lowly 1084 do good for toughness at higher hardness, just keep it sharp with a few passes now and then, you'd need to anyways since mild corrosion dulls it some.@@greekveteran2715
Great video as always!
There's a reason why blade sports competitors use steels like M4, and not 420hc, n690co etc.
Do you make commissioned knives?, I'd love to have a custom made by you
Great video buddy! People who don’t like super steels just don’t know enough about them or don’t care enough to learn why they’re better.
I'm a retired tool maker, and I made my moose skinner, and camp knife using 01 tool steel, ht to 60rc, and my knightly dagger and machete are made from a 1960s 10ft saw blade from a paper mill. It has a few points less carbon than 01, and I heat blued the back of the machete to temper it back to about 50rc. That blade of yours would give mine a run for it's money, but I wonder how it would handle moose, or grizzly hair, although, it handled everything you threw at it like a champ. That stabbing out a chip made shivers run up my spine, and was amazed that the tip still remained. Every factory made knife I've ever owned needed to be sharpened, every time I use it, and don't hold an edge any better than barbed wire. Your blade is the first I've seen in a long time, that you could call a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing.
I'm so lucky the RUclips algorithm blessed me with your content.. You're awesome ❤
👍👍 Great content even if some choose not to learn from it. I worked as an engineer for 24 years and still appreciate those who spend their time trying to help others. I spent 14 years on a gun forum trying to teach people how to build better rifles, reload and just choose higher performance parts instead of buying a name. In most cases it was a complete waste of time but, please continue some of us are interested in learning the ways of others. I looked for months trying to find a Magnacut with heatreat in that 63-64 range that Larrin recommends with no luck. It looks like I'll have to make some in AELb, 3V, cru-wear and MC then send them out for proper heat treat to see what they will really do.
Could I get a link to your gun form so I can read the content?
I appreciate the light dry humor on this channel. Glad I'm not the only one who hangs frustrating projects on the wall for a few years.
Been everydaying a Spyderco Para 3 in Maxamet for a year and several months. It's just now needing to be stropped. My first experience with super steel has been exemplary.
Damn 64 hrc and no chipping. Would love to see how the work on chef knives and see how far they'll go before chipping and breaking. Im nodda fan of stainless but now I'm contemplating buying some aluminum plates.. Keep up the good work. I always look forward to your videos, you rock!
65😬
I wonder how hard it is to get a S grind on a supersteel. I could see it being a great kitchen knife if you’ve got a guy with the skills and equipment to sharpen it.
@@WARnTEAfor a kitchen knife stainless is quite important, so besides aebl/14c28n, magnacut is the only super steel that would make sense. A few makers make kitchen knives from it.
those first two aren't supersteels, just very good ones. The best non-powder steels I think.@@thorwaldjohanson2526
@@WARnTEA Speaking of kitchen knives; have you seen Rahven's HIC/elastic ceramic knives? The channel Cedra and Ada gear did a test on a prototype made out of this material and cut through sisal rope 2350 times (!!!!) before it dulled the knife enough that it didn't easily cut through a sheet of paper. Regular steel would go between 50 to 200 times before doing similar. Super steels like 300 to 500 times or so.
Anyways, it's a type of elastic/flexible ceramic that has the best of both worlds-ceramics very, very high hardness but without the extreme brittleness. You can actually significantly flex these knives without breaking them. They are also super light weight and obviously non oxidizing/rusting.
And unlike with the traditional ceramic knives, you can actually sharpen them fairly easily with diamond.
I was surprised by how relatively inexpensive they were as well. I expected them to charge hundreds of dollars for these knives, but you can get a small pairing knife for around $19 US, and their largest knife around $70 US dollars (I'm quickly guesstimating conversion from CHF to USD).
The only downside is that the shipping is expensive (they are located in Switzerland). But they have free shipping if you spend 100 CHF and over. (For me, the shipping would have been around $43 US, so I just bought as close to 100 CHF as I could).
I wonder if they will ever transition over to other style of knives? They are probably still have significantly less toughness than most steels, but it might be interesting to see a San Mai version-have the core HIC and the 2 outer reinforcing sides, steel.
Either way, sounds like it is amazing for at least kitchen knives now (I'm looking forward to receiving the ones I ordered).
Always love the vids and the information you provide. With any steel the proper heat treatment process brings out the best that steel has to offer. Supersteels are considered super for a reason whether it be those that focus on toughness, edge retention, stainless etc.. and a few that balance these qualities amazingly well and provide high marks in all categories. Such a great time to be into knives with all the options we have available and at different price points as well. Thanks for the great vid and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
I have ballbearing steel knives, that have very similar performance, with many super steels. Actually, the common user, will never know that it wasn''t a super steel used, because that's how good that steel properly made performs. Makes my CPM 3V blades look inferior. (Better edge retention, better edge stability, easier to sharpen, sharper edge) Only steel I like more, (for medium size fixed blades on outdoor knives) is the Vanadis 4 Extra, which I like more than CPM Cruwear.
@@greekveteran2715Edge stability matters for thin geometry, yeah. 14c28n would take the cake for general use edge stability for being tough and hard and stainless with just a tiny bit of miniscule carbide. Maybe 1v would do the same?
It's fun to see you making videos again where you make a knife. Great video bro, I really appreciated your perspective. My every-single-day-of-work knife is an old Spyderco Military in M4, probably around 61-62 HRC. It was so much better than all the 58 HRC M390 I'd ever had, and so far I've never changed it out (4 years running). There are better steels available now, like K390 etc, but my M4 is close enough to all the new stuff I haven't changed it yet.
Really cool how you could manipulate hardwoods and cut down a 3 inch thick tree... That takes a functional edge man. Take care Alex.
I think spyderco is one of the few production knife companies that has their heat treatment figured out for the super steels. I own several m390 knives from other companies and one k390 delica. The delica has such better edge holding! I suspect the others are a lot softer HRC.
Yeah, well, so what? My Tenacious with 8Cr13Mov will slice Velveeta cheese all day long!
@@johnharris7353 Haha, whatever floats your boat bro. The tenacious is a great knife. I just wanted to let Alex know I've had a similar experience with M4.
To be honest your Velveeta consumption is a greater worry to me than your usage of a Tenacious 😜
CPM154 is also very good at hrc of 61-62.
@@phasechange5053 I'd believe it.
Ur the dude ! 65 is my hope in what little I do . But I've been using knives since I was 8 or 9.
My first super steel was cpm3v... before that I was used to 440, d2 and 1095.
The bushcraft community had me thinking that 1095 was one of the best steels. But after going to work with 3v every day... I realized that technology was my friend
Edit: If my favorite knife was magically transformed into a D2 blade; I'd still carry it. But I prefer my supersteels 1,000% :)
D2 is almost just as good as CPMs but at a fraction of the price.
Wins hands down on price vs performance.
@@bowez9 Who cares? You're buying a small amount of steel, the difference in price is negligible. Not everyone is poor
@@Eric-zs6rd almost everyone is poor. Supersteels are irrelevant to 99% of knife users.
@@bowez9 D2 is more brittle by a lot.
@@AldoSchmedack do you want a hammer/pry bar or a knife?
My personal EDC is made from CPM 10V at 65 HRC, full height convex, 18dps secondary, around .01 BTE, and it can whittle antler with no issues.
As you know, it's for me it's great to find some one who takes these great steels to 65 hrc and has gotten comfortable there. Thanks TSL.
This video, with your choices of sound clips and editing make it look and feel almost like a Quentin Tarantino movie, or in other words - a fun, bubbly, entertaining masterpiece! Love it! Thank you so much for that! Subscribed!
I really like how you are always asking questions and questioning your methodology.
Another excellent explanation of knives and steel..and how many elements of knife making have to come together in order to make a great knife. The knife you made Alex seems to tick all the boxes…love how the handle looks as well. Impressive! MikeR.
I... Didn't really hear any explanations about why those steels are worth it. Like, what are the *reasons* the steel is "better"? Why does it retain it's edge better? Is it harder? Why isn't it brittle if so?
M4 is one of my favorite steels. I have a big old Benchmade I think contego in cpm M4 and it's super nice. I feel like I've lucked out on most of my knives with heat treatment except for one in s35vn which seems freaking soft! I also have noticed a big difference in s30v in 2 different Spyderco knives. One is awesome and will take a hair whittling sharpening and hold it while the other just doesn't want to get as sharp ever and seems to need attention more often.
I think knifesteelnerds explained the likely reason for this in a collab with another creator if you're interested. Something with carbide structure iirc
Can vouch on the s30v, I have a manix 2 and xl and the xl steel has to be sharpened more often.
Great video, as always brother. I started making knives because of you and almost* all of my knowledge has came from you. You're a great teacher as well man, you should think about doing an in depth knife making course locally as well as online, I think it would really take off, especially now that more folks are getting back into bushcraft and bushcrafting knives/gear. I really want your heat treat protocol for that M4 man, I was just talking to a buddy about M4 two days ago and wether or not I should use that or CPM-3V. I love it man ! Have a great day brother!
I have learned more about knifes and sharpening than in all others combined
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I was also doing the same thing on some wood this past weekend.
so glad you are back making videos. My knives are much happier when I'm well informed about steels
Been packing a spyderco police 4 k390 and like you were saying it’s hard to go back even after zdp189 hap40 cpm s90v the k390 has just been night and day been over a year sharpened once stropped several times… it’s just amazing
Check out ericasedc for her collab with a custom maker (Levi...). K390 with 65 hrc. Her personal one is at 66.5. Saaa...weet.
@@robertbarnum7541 ya I keep up with her I like her content
The topic alone got you a sub! Rock on!
Recently I got a little EDC knife with 4" Magnacut blade @ 65RC and tested it the way I usually do... processing game. If you ever processed a boar you know how hard they are on knives and I got two of them the other night. Went trough both of them, bone and everything (chest and pelvis) and absolutely no damage to the edge. Some stropping and was back to shaving. Since the knife was small and I couldn't get a good grip and a lever I had to baton trough the pelvis bones.
3V is usually my steel of choice but it doesn't even compare.
I haven't worked with magnacut yet but will at some point. I think they have the heat treat figured out now as it seems some makers we're having issues with it at first. But again I believe that is in the past. Glad to hear some feedback on it under real world use👍
That looked like a verry good heat treatment job.
I am from Toronto Canada.I used to work at a company called Deisel Equiptment LTD.
I once made a knife from a broken auger saw blade.
All I did was grind the blade to shape (including the edge)
and put the holes for the rivets (copper)with a torch.
and used the torch to heat the edge brite red and
dropped it in gear grease,made a handle (full tang)
from red oak and someone baught the thing from me for $200.00
and we could`nt dammage it,we tried.And it didnt warp or chip (EVER).
The guy used it for ROOFING,talk about ABUSE,Good job on that knife. 🙂
Quite impressive. And the shape of the blade is, in my opinion, ideal for turning game into meat. It's the size and shape I use for gutting and skinning. There's a second folding knife that's smaller for gutting as well. Thanks for the info!
This is true love outdoors55 . I think making your own knives is the way to go if possible . No wonder why so many enthusiasts get into making knives . It’s a great hobby imo .
Might want to think about making some bolt on scales for all your test blades. Especially if all your blades are the same pattern. Even aluminum scales would be easier on your hand than the bare tang and you can’t break aluminum, but micarta would probably hold up as well.
I don’t have any experience with custom super steels but I’ve been thoroughly impressed with all the factory knives I have in it . Every steel has its place but I’ll never go back to traditional steels for my hunting knives .
Curious question: Why does outdoor knife have exposed steel on handle? That will be so cold on winter.
Damn! Now I REALLY want an M4 scandi-grind fixie as my go-to bushcraft knife!!! Wow that really is incredible performance. And another great video, thank you.
Great work and thanks for sharing. The music and walk through the woods was classic
I am 37 and my father has made knives as long as I can remember. I have seen a lot of nice knives but have not wanted any as much as I want that knife... but with a nice brass guard(front quillon only) Very nice job. How Do I Make One?
Time tested,Tried and true, trial and error method to figure out the cooling plate set up and method ,good stuff mate ,well done ,saved other lots of time ,thank you :)
I've seen hundreds of knives, and that knife is one of the finest...
I'm only a hobbyist and noticed that problem laying the blank down first as the first problem you have shown, Agree
Wow❤ As for the blade.
Not for the handle, just a maddle of choice but well made .
Can I use cheap oils for the quenching is the major question, Sir I'm subscribed now
Thanks you got my attention now 😂
Thanks
M4 my precious. CPM M4 and Bohler K390 are my absolute favorite steels. Haven't tried any of the steels of the last 5 years to compare them to. As you say, its pretty hard to go back. Also, I think I am going to build a workbench with wheels.... Brilliant idea
I haven't used it yet, so far I've worked on A36 (cheapo practice steel), 1095 and 440c.
I've tried to find some super-alloy blanks, but I can only seem to find them available in large - and very expensive - portions.
So glad you're back making videos! I missed your snarky expertise :)
Hi brother! Welcome to mud season ! 49 degrees here at OBX, NC. Always enjoy your vids. Stay safe up there.
Cutting that sapling in half was bad ass!
That thing is crazy sharp!!!
Thanks for all your work to produce informative videos - greatly appreciated!
Also too many people judge a steel based on the factory edge when the performance can noticeably increase after a few sharpenings for a production knife.
I know it's not really on topic of video but I absolutely enjoy your rolling workshop that's probably the coolest rolling double-sided work environment I've ever seen great job
Super steels rock! Love Hitachi super blue for the kitchen, but Spyderco is one of the reliable heat treaters of new and exotic steels. I'll try new steels after some reviews, then get a Spyderco model in that type. Excellent video. Try a Scandi edge on the next one. ✌
I think it was a scandi grind?
I am here for some advice.
I heat treated my knife, tempered it, hand sanded and polished the blade to a mirror finish. And realise I didn't drill no fooken pin holes for the handle.
It's a file knife and the serrations are still there... Can I just epoxy wood to it? What would you do in this situation?
Btw your videos helped me get a super sharp and durable edge on this knife. Bloody epic.
The funny thing about plate quenching like that is that it's like a janky fixture lol. You need a lot of pressure that's evenly distributed and hard to do if you don't have a good setup. I work with a lot of these materials
What you made, looks like MAGIC!! I have a benchmade CPM M4 folder (popular about 7 years ago,),, and honestly,, don't think it's special at all.. It not hard to sharpen (stone, diamond plate, doesn't matter.) doesn't stay sharp whittling away at soft wood.... will give it a chance again and see if my opinion changes.
Hey Man I do like your videos a lot. They make me going in the workshop and try doing some hot knifes just like yours.
Thanks for inspiration and a happy new Year.
May 2024 be the year of finding the the wholy grail of the supersteel that fits all.
Thanks for watching! Happy new year's to you as well👊
As a knife, Content creator, any time people ask me about technical stuff I divert to your channel
Are you saying you're a knife and a content creator?
@@gilbertopadilla3611 lmao. know im a knife, AND CONTENT CREATOR.
lol yeah i should've proofread that. Mainly posting on tikotk, but I'm trying to step up my youtube game.
plus i need the money, just a got anew vehicle, and a p365xMacro
If I was a knife I would do the same thing
Damn i wish i was a knife too
@@jeanladoire4141 I'm glad I'm still a human.
Great video. One thing I don't like about the handle of the knife, there's no hand guard or however that part is called that prevents the palm from slipping onto the blade when the knife is pushed.
It's all well and good if the knife is dry but once it's used in some wet environment and the handle gets slippery, it's just one bad thrust and your fingers can get sliced pretty good.
Still, the blade itself is an awesome piece of fully functional art and the sharpness is pure marvel.
I've wanted to start messing around with some of these higher grade steels, I will need to send the blades out for heat treating but that's just one less headache for me, I certainly cannot afford the setup here. I like the idea of a truly durable blade. Love the handle by the way!
Well done, I've been watching your videos for a long time and you're getting way more educated
Im right there with you, I just graduated from O1 to AEB-L due to a new kiln, have just put my first handle on and am hand sanding that at the moment, keen to see how it works out, but I must say its a lot harder to work the soft steel, my blades stayed straight but I clamped them, might try your vice method, I had actually considered that before I saw your video but was worried about dropping them on the floor as I put them in the vice...
If you are using AEB-L use Roman Landes heat treat recipe . Cliff Stamps website used to have the recipe but since he passed away the website is no more. It may still be about on one of the knife forums somewhere .
I really do like your videos! Hope there still will be plenty in the future!
Greetings from Germany💚🤘
I heard you say there are better steels out now, but that depends on what you're prioritizing.
I had never previously considered CPM-M4 as a material I'd like in a knife until watching this video and researching CPM-M4.
M4 looks like it's the absolute best knive steel in terms of having both edge retention and toughness. I don't see anything else that even rivals M4 if you prioritize both those attributes.
So, its corrosion resistance is low, and its ease of sharpening is low (on paper). You said that it wasn't particularly tough to sharpen, and with edge retention like that, you'd sharpen less anyway.
I personally don't care all that much about corrosion resistance, at least not when I could have a tough knife with incredible edge retention.
I imagine there are coatings to help with corrosion resistance.
I'm very excited about the CPM-M4. Thank you so much for showcasing it for us!
To help with warping I also don't do any pregrinding other than profiling the knife and do all my grinding after. I wet grind with new ceramic belts and it is not that bad or maybe I am just used to it. Any pregrinding can increase chances of a warp. Love all your vids! P.S. M4 is tough stuff.
Great stuff. I like the heritage steels. Saw blades and wrenches, springs & files, wagon wheel tyre for wrought, or anchor chain… discs from the farm, old stuff turned into useful tools. The new high tech stuff is super. I like the old. Peace
Very interesting findings, and it make so much sense. One day when I am lucky enough to make my own knives one day I will remember your wise words and experiments. Thank you
Great video. Very informative and great music to boot👍🏻
Impressive knife making. Love the work bench on wheels.
That looks like a pretty useful knife, I didn't know any knife could do some of the things you showed. Could part of the confusion about steel types not only be due to differently carried out heat treatment, but also that some online stores may claim a different steel just because of them being trending?
Many steels have poor heat treatments, and cheap knives may lie about steel type. Plus, most generic knives go overly soft to try to prevent returns for chips, same for going too acute for edge geometry. You need hard, fine geometry, and a good heat treatment for a steel to go from poor to great. Even 420hc from a quality buck knife with a thinned angle will outcut a lot of poorer knives even in D2 with awful heat treats and thick wedge bevels.
yes M4 my favorite steel i use it for my personal hunting knives you might want to try a sand blast finish. It looks really good and you can skip the higher grit sanding 120 grit is the highest i go then sand blast with a cheap harbor freight sand blaster screen some dry sand from your yard and your golden
Again appreciate the honesty and balanced approach in your videos vs the usual over simplified all hype haters vs steel type marketing koolaid fans single value is only thing that matters crowd. It is made worse by not only do folks compare crap heat treats, but blame the steel for their sharpening ability and wrong choice of gear like using soft bond al oxide stones on high carbide super steels. I also find most steels tend to lose that razor edge in similar amount of time and seem similar in say kitchen use when it is touched up a lot and not seeing hard work much, but on a work knife cutting likes of 11mm static rope, wood, 4mm leather, cardboard etc I find modern super steels are still cutting and work sharp long after the likes of 12c27 and aebl have become completely useless
Cheap knife consumers- "a $500 + knife is stupid. No maker is worth that.
Custom Maker-
Forge was on for 8 hrs...
Before labor.
Before belts.
Art is pretty and some functional, but ain't cheap. Keep up the amazing work !
You should see my electric bill😂
I made a blade from M3 HSS, and it's plenty tough and easy to get hair-popping sharp. A strange thing I am still investigating is that I can store it very sharp for a few months, and it loses sharpness. It's stored in dry, stable temperature and humidity, and there are no visible signs of rust or corrosion.
Hoping to get a heat treating oven soon, just wondering what your opinion on the best outdoor/survival knife steel is. We're moving to 100 acres of Forrest so I must make my wife a beautiful knife
Big fan of the thick handle, always a fan of Scandi blades...
Isn’t the trouble with supersteels that they can be more difficult to sharpen where 420hc can be sharpened with just a stone you pick up off the ground or some river clay rubbed into the cut face of a log?
I totaly thought you were going to say,after 3 years the warp disappeared, too funny!
I may not have an understanding of quality steel for knives, but I have an understanding of a quality work cart when I see one!
Will be nice if you sell those knives. How much would you charge for one?
You’re a legit dude, I hope that you sell them at a reasonable price, and that way you take the lead in making them. This knife you showed here is better than 99% of comercial knives
It's literally a infinity knife...love to see you craft a CMP-M4 hatchet axe 🤠.
LMFAO at that man in steel meme. So freaking good!
Pretty slick way to grind the bevels using the work rest at a set angle and sliding the file guide. I am going to have to try that.
What temperature did you temper at? Was all 3 cycles at the same temperature? I’m amazed at how well it held up and only lost 1 point below full hardness.
It was tempered at 1000f
That tool bench on wheels is awesome…..love it.
Loved this video, because it tempts me to go try some superman vs winter soldier steel, but I have 2 huge deterrents:
1. If I lose a cruwear or maxamet knife I will sink into a deep cripling depression of which I will be on the 5 O’ clock news
2. Some one grabs it real quick to do something stupid like pry and it snaps in half, which is the same result, the 5 O’ clock news, but now I’ve committed manslaughter
Well said brother very well said indeed 👏🏼👏🏼 have a beautiful day my friend and keep on with the good work 🫵🏻👍🏼
Fair analysis, thank you. Have you considered modes of failure at the edge? When I look at knife edges with a microscope I find chipping or rolling in most steels, not abrasion. This suggests that toughness or yield strength is lacking but abrasion resistance is adequate. Toughness is determined using a Charpy or similar. I like the highest hardness (strength) available that doesn't chip in the intended use (handheld, random materials, not held in a fixture on clean materials like a CATRA) with the desired edge geometry. Large carbides and high carbide volumes don't tend to deliver this. Now I run edges thinner than many (12dps or less on choppers usually ffg, less than .030" behind the edge), because I like cutting ability, so that might be a large part of what's going on.
I have also wondered if the heat resistance of many "supersteels" is coming into play as so few blades are finish ground wet, and perhaps simple steels are being overheated at grinding.
😀
It can be tough to dial in what causing chipping/ rolling. Geometry definitely plays a roll. I've found simply adding 1 degree per side can fix an issue. But you also can't rull out fixing it with heat treatment either. But sometimes you are just at the limit of what that steel is capable of🙂
You can get Japanese kitchen knives made with these super steel like hep40, zdp 189, or cowry-x quite easily hardened from Rc 65 to 67. They are great. Not brittle, tough and holds an edge for months with daily kitchen use. They are not particularly tough to sharpen either due to their thin edges. They are very good and I would say better than the traditional hitachi blue or white label carbon steel. Whether they are worth the extra price is really in the eye of the owner. Many would say $1000 for a chef knife is just crazy but some won’t think twice.
I know nothing about plate hardening, but my gut says that the contact will be with the spine, cooling the spine more rapidly than the edge which is the opposite of what one usually wants which is a harder edge and a tougher, more flex accepting spine??
Sir, I started pricing everything out to start making my own custom knives and after much research I’ll never complain about the price of a knife again for sure !!!!!!
I grind (mostly) M4 at work. We use hydraulic grinding machines and coolant. A Tormec may make grinding the edges easier, and a small wet grinder would grind the flats with ease. Both can be had for pretty cheap (if $500+ is cheap). A surface grinder would work also, just have to go slow- let it cool off between passes.
M4 is great, we use it to cut steel. Nice work on the knife!
Thanks appreciate it🙏
What's the heat treat like for cutting steel? Hot or cold shearing? 👍
@James Barisitz I'm not sure about hot or cold sheering, I'm not sure that applies to what I'm doing. I make broaches. They are used to progressively cut splines or shapes into holes, pulled through the (usually) steel parts with a hydraulic machine. Heat treat is between 64-66, and we only take a few thousandths per tooth.
It's really fulfilling, getting to make something so precise and see the end result.
With all the efort and skills you put into your blades OD55 I was quite expecting to see a few drops of your own blood being the secret to preventing warping. Great to watch a Master Craftsman at work.
Despite being a few years old i think that M4 is still one of the best knife steels. It's got a great balance of properties.
Well this is what ive said all along. Also, Larrin's graph is great but people think all knives represent those numbers and thats not true because there can be much better or much worse depending on the protocol and techniques. And most mass production knives won't even match or come close to those charts. They could, but they dont know what to do.
Absolutely. I believe the samples he tested are all treated to his, or the manufacturer's protocol. It definitely doesn't apply as a blanket representation of what all the steels are capable of. Also as hardness increases so does edge retention. So every sample is only indicative of the hardness tested.🙂
It's pretty simple. The more resistant a knife is to sharpening, the more resistant it is to dulling. If you want a light-duty knife, that you can keep extremely sharp, you want an easier sharpening steel. If you want a knife that will stay reasonably sharp for a long time, you want a harder sharpening steel.
Am looking for one. To own, not sell, (but I would pass it down)
Blade 6.5" 10.5" overall. Can make own handles.
No serrations needed. Will be adding brass or nickel at both ends of handle, so no glass breaker needed
How much?
Now my question is : what is more important : steel or heat treatment ? Would you rather have a super steel not so well heat treated or a regular steel with a great heat treatment ?
1084 regular steel with a solid heat treatment for sure will beat anything with a bad one.
What an incredible steel and video keep it up I love watching you so much 🔥❤️
Just well said. Super steel haters will have a tough time refuting your presentation of facts. Totally agree with hating the heat treatment. Great video. The “shop on wheels” was great too
I have a couple high end super steel knives and they're amazing. Maybe they've been hyped too much and expectations were exaggerated. While performance is undeniably better, the difference is not like going from bronze to steel. I'll continue carrying my Spyderco super steel lock blades while making beasts out of more forgiving tool steels because I don't have the tech for those super-specific heat treatments.
I got a couple of hitachi super blue blades. I have a hard time considering anything else any more