@@sednabold859 It does nothing for "heat tolerance", your pawn will die quickly if he visits a room at 1000 celsius, it does allow you to survive the barrage of an orbital laser/inferno cannon/molotov, and other assorted sources of fire damage.
I have over 600hours in rimworld and i have never seen a more clear and concise breakdown of how to protect your pawns. I appreciate the effort that you put into this, and my pawns may well owe you their lives (or at least their extremities)
I'm a scientist by training and profession. These breakdowns are impressive. I'm imagining you pausing the game during a fight, performing some supervised clustering of relevant data, building a small predictive model, unpausing the game for a couple shots, pausing again, updating the data, running the model again,... lol. Keep it up!
Love these tutorial nuggets. They're the best source of Rimworld info on RUclips. Most of my insta-deaths weren't from lancers, but unlucky headshots from centipedes and tribal archers on pawns who were wearing flak helmets at the time. Taught me the value of the extra protection afforded by recon and marine helmets. Almost every pawn on my first playthough had a crushed nose.
There's a reason I fight lancers by skipping them into my melee pawns :D And yea, stoneskin glands are amazing. In vanilla they have an added benefit: They don't become tattered. A one time investment, and a pawn that moves slightly slower and is a bit more ugly (mitigated by beauty implants) but is alive is much better than a pretty, dead pawn that was moving a bit faster.
Some pretty good info, thanks for taking the time to collect the data! It's nice to know that there's always some risk in combat. Being able to mitigate 100% would get boring fairly quickly.
Thanks for showing the absolute shite ton of work needed to get the 100 Lancers, which means there must follow a HUGE THANKS for doing all the science. "THANKS!" GREAT job. cheers Francis.
You actually can have a pawn that is immune to lancer instakill shots. If a tough pawn has every vital part covered by 145 armor layer, no lancer can oneshot it.
Thanks for all the info! Been playing rimworld for more than 1000 hours now, but did not have concrete info on how important armor was. The tests mustve took a while, so thanks for doing them!
Hmm in late game I usually run around with bionics and masterwork/legendary recon armor as well as toughskin gland and thrumbofur skin layer. Thank you for the video. (If anyone is interested in how you can spam masterwork/legendary gear then the answer is called word of inspiration, meaning that you need the royalty dlc and a powerful psycaster or 2)
I'd love to see a breakdown on prisoner recruitment, I can't find anything really definitive. What is the absolutely ideal condition to keep a prisoner in, and how can you do it most efficiently early. Really excited for a new rimworld series!
19:05 the game (in Vanilla) treats bionics as if the dependent parts (i.e. hands, fingers, feet, toes) no longer exist which is why you don't see damage those those parts in pawns with bionics
8:25 Nearly 2 years later, and he's equipping a full colony in masterwork+ gear. Production specialists from the ideology DLC are beasts at their job. Even now, this guide is still extremely handy. Sidenote for Royalty expansion: dusters and capes have near identical stats, the only real difference is market value. Dusters are still the safer option for wealth management reasons, and they're quicker to produce as well. Formal shirts, meanwhile, are more expensive than button downs in both wealth AND raw material, with less insulation.
I absolutely loved the video , and I have to say , I always liked to use Recon armor with Marine helmet (since they don't reduce speed) with devilstrand underclother because of fires and heat in general and after the introduction of cataphract I even thought about the possibility of using everyone with cataphract but it's way too expensive to have in everyone, soo i change the marine to the cataphract helmet and that is my set to everyone unless they are 100% melee at this point I would just use a shield belt with full Cataphract . just to explain how much cheaper it's , with 4 Advanced component you can make someone , recon armor (3 adv components) + Cataphract helmet (1 adv components), instead of paying 7 for each colonist , to have full cataphract , 3 adv may sound a small amount but I don't think it's actually ,I have a colony with 19 people that mean I saved 57 adv component , If someone take a shot and for some reason something in them get destroy , I can just replace by something bionic with 4 adv meaning i could repair or replace 8 people if they for some reason lose something , but believe me at this point your turrets can just tank and explode in the enemy's faces while you shoot from the back . you also could build another 19 charge rifles and still saved 19 adv components and if that it's not enough and you just wants money you could saved 200 silver per adv components meaning around 11000 silver even if your social colonist is garbage. cataphract it's good but it's too expensive. English it's my first language obviously soo don't be to harsh but I would love to hear your opinion.
So the way mitigation works is one of two ways. The main way I was calculating it was if the outer layer mitigates it, the damage type is changed to blunt, damage gets halved, and then on the next layer the armor calc runs again but vs blunt protection. This is what I found after an exhaustive search of relevant threads on reddit. It also appears to be wrong. The guy who made the "thick armor" mod actually went into the code to find out how it works: if the outer layer mitigates, the damage is changed to blunt, damage is halved, but when it gets to the next layer, despite it now being blunt, its still challenging vs that layers sharp protection value. So yeah, remember back in the single digit episodes where I kept saying armor skin type glands were garbage? I was wrong. When I get home later I'll pull out the spreadsheet I made and find the effective hit point values for each gear setup you went over here. VS both the charge lance and autopistol. For a start tho, I can tell you with certainty that a naked pawn has 100% EHP.
Another question that came to my mind, if bionic limbs are naturally protected, will having a bionic heart also reduce their chance of dying? What about a prosthetic heart?
The bionic arms just protect the hands and fingers because it removes the hands and fingers from being shot. The arm can still get shot and a bionic heart can still be shot
Bionic legs don’t have feet bionic arms don’t have hands, Swapping organs for bionic versions doesn’t give them more hitpoints or lower any chances, maybe bionic organs bleed less I forget
I know it's been 10 months, but combine the legendaries cataphract armor and hyperwave with the stoneskin and a pawn with the Tough trait, boom, it's now unkillable
Have a pawn with Armour Skin Gland, Full Legendary Cataphract Armour, the Tough trait and Trigger Happy to have the ultimate soldier. Also known as Doom Guy.
Recently had a pawn take a charge shot to the head, her masterwork recon helmet reduced it to a bruise that turned into a permanent brain injury to the tune of 8/10 hit points. After realizing she was stuck in hospital unable to move for an in game week I realized I could dose her with go juice and get her into a biosculptor pod to fix the permanent injury.
super amazing video i'm surprised you didn't add the toughness trait as well though. not sure if there are other traits that affect damage but toughness is insane for sticking a pawn in heavy fire.
Great video, now I know why my best colonists keep dying instantly to mech raids. Now I can give em a good duster, helmet and flak vest and they will be a-ok!
I hope you have pawns working around the clock to make a suitable legendary statue in memorial of the brave pawns that took the hits so that other pawns could benefit!
This was very helpful. Could I ask for some clarification, though? First, does this mean that armor layers are discrete? So a hit to the torso of a pawn wearing a thrumbo fur duster (60% sharp) and shirt (40% sharp) the damage vs. the duster is calculated first, then the remaining damage is calculated against the shirt? Second, does all damage passing through armor become blunt, or only for advanced armors?
Yes and yes. The roll he talks about is done for each layer. So it could potentially roll against duster, flak vest, shirt and skin gland. So a vest and duster have 4 different outcome - stopped (by either layer), halved (mitigated by one but not both layers), quartered (mitigated by both) and complete penetration. Any halving of sharp damage becomes blunt, no matter if its a shirt or power armor. EDIT: this happens when any remaining damage is finally applied to the pawn as an injury though - even if the first layer converts halves the damage and converts it to blunt, the subsequent layers all check against the sharp armor of the pawn.
@@DSlyde Mind. Blown. In all serious though that makes for some difficult calculations if you want to min-max layers. I usually play tribals and getting decent armor before the nasty raids come in is all but impossible so I try to make sure everyone has the best possible leathers. Edit: I just checked the wiki and thankfully it looks like except for lizardskin the sharp and blunt amounts mostly scale together (better sharp armor has better blunt protection).
@@DSlyde But isn't the correct order from outer to inner layer? so first it hits the duster (likely completely penetrates) then hits the vest, gets halved and finally rolls again against the skin layer button down shirt for blunt and finally on skin gland? in this case the duster would be only useful as an extra protection to your extremities
@@brohvakiindova4452 So we found out after I made that comment that the game lies to you and doesn't actually change the damage into blunt until its actually applied to the pawn. So its still testing against sharp armor for every layer even if the very first layer halves the damage. We had to look at the actual game code to figure this out. I've edited the comment to remove/fix that section so it won't confuse others people. Hope that clears things up, if not, ask away.
@@DSlyde good to know, no my confusion is about the order of layers and how they work because I read many comments (might be totally outdated from B18 or even alpha) saying something along the lines of: "if your pawn wears cataphract armor, any armor beneath it will never be able to stop the damage that already was able to go through cataphract" and also that, if you're wearing a duster over flak vest, the duster will likely be completely penetrated/ignored for calculations but by the comments here it seems more like that's only the case if the halved damage is still too much to handle for, say a hyperweave button down shirt additionally the bottom line of armor seems like giving your pawns quality clothing and a flak vest/helmet combo is incredibly effective and power armor seems a little expensive or rather out of proportion for all the material and work you need
I guess that's why my tribals are doing so well against mechanoids. Bunch of inspired crafts on legendary plasteel plate and the protection with devilstrand shirt n pants is a lovely 150% sharp left my fresh off electricity tribals doing good work. Pretty new to the game so good to know how all this works
I have a pawn that has tough and a burning passion for melee. Threw stoneskin on him and cataphract armor, and I was able to seems him in to any problem and they weren't a problem anymore.
Its worthy to note with damage testing that the number of bionics that a pawn has does increase the chances of the pawn getting shot in the torso or head. When they get a bionic, technically the limb is gone and can't be shot so the shots go to the torso instead
I believe that when a shot gets halved from the first layer, it gets converted to blunt damage, but if it hits another layer the calculations are still made using the sharp armor, not the blunt armor. It is a bullet, still after all. Theres no reason to calculate it based on the blunt armor Especially since the only reason blunt armor in this game is so low is to make people use blunt weapons. It's always calculated using the sharp armor, but when it finally hits, it hits with blunt damage
Great vids as always.. My go to gear at late game is full bionic, asethic shaper and nose(to counter the neg beauty from stoneskin), stoneskin and pheonix armor and A few thing i might add.. - U can change the setting on one shoot kill on 1.2 if u want or just play ce - And shield belt isnt a problem if u manage it well by using shocklance or skip them near ur pawn before they drop the shield and emp grenade usually dont work very well cos u need to get close.. Emp launcher however work wonder..
@@thesentientneuron6550 Now I'm curious, I never pay enough attention to damage taken during fights. All I can find is text that says 50% reduction in all damage taken
Going from 19% to 15% is actually very significant. Think of it this way: If at 19% you got hit X times, at 15% you would be hit 3/4X. So despite it being declared as 4 percent difference, it is actually one quarter of the remainder.
It's more about weapons armour pierce, even a pump shotgun has 14 AP. So with 19% you have a 5% chance to half the damage and at 15% you only have 1%. That is with the pump shotgun, with better weapons it gets even worse. The Heavy SMG have 18 AP :) one of my favourite weapons.
@@FrancisJohnYT i see what you mean, but I was mostly relating to 20:45 where you kinda gloss over stone skin decreasing the hits from 19 to 15.8 By the way, thanks for great content. I'm somewhat new to the game and learned a lot from you guides
This is really good to know. I have a bad habit of sacrificing everything to get that amazing marine helmet when my pawns don't have torso protection. Clearly that is an awful decision.
@Francis John, does this go to show the Toughness perk is super OP? Considering its basically a built in suit of armor that never deteriorates, doesn't slow you down, weighs nothing, doesn't add value to colony for raids
Depends on if you get to late game high quality armor. Tough can never deflect damage it only reduces everything by half. So with the right armor it should be impossible to be one shot.
Dear Francis John, Might I recommend a study which evaluates armour performance during a sustained fire-fight. Specifically how armour improves survivability against multiple shots. Perhaps a smaller sample of pawns, being hit multiple times until death or incapacitation. I would be very curious what the likelihood of sustaining multiple hits to the torso in the same fight is
It's funny that gloves and boots aren't a thing in this game. So you get guys in full power armor with bare feet and exposed hands. I imagine them as 40k space marines with bare feet and no gloves.
I have a question regarding “multilayer" covering armors like plate and power armors, is the damage calculated only once by considering all the layers they cover as 1 single layer or is each layer considered separate and thus the damage is calculated multiple times for each layer with the same equipped "multilayer" armor? The wiki says the remaining damage will have the "same process done with the item on the lower layer" but doesn't specify if the multiple layers covered by the same armor are counted separately or not.
If damage is to the torso and the pawn is only wearing plate armour then the damage calculation is done once, assuming it "rolls" penetrates it does it's damage to the torso. Then it checks to see if it hit something in the torso like a kidney, liver, heart etc. The same damage that was applied to the torso is then applied to the organ. Layer damage refers to clothing layers. Say a shirt with a flak vest worn over it, shot hits flak vest and successfully penetrates, then the damage has to try rolling again to penetrating the shirt.
@@FrancisJohnYT considering that realistically speaking, no raider/mechanoid will probably spawn with a charge lance of masterwork or above, making the max relevant ap 45%, a masterwork flak vest has 145% armor, it has already all the armor necessary to halve "all" shots, shots that were possibly already mitigated by the duster and then mitigated again by the shirt and skin, it probably outclasses even the cataphract armor as, even if the cataphract armor can technically reach higher sharp armor, 145% covers already "everything" and going higher is probably "useless", it has significantly higher cost of material and research, it slows pawn way more and even the useless awful quality impacts wealth more than a masterwork flak vest, the only advantage it offers is a higher blunt armor, relevant predominantly only in melee with gun wielding people since most of not all melee oriented enemies use "sharp" weapons, the extra protection of arms and legs is questionable for the cost as, still, no hand is protected, with all the wealth and material saved, one could already be investing in bionics
@@ennou1236 I get where you are coming from. I have been running almost exclusively on flak vests. However consider raid point cap. Once raids hit a set size they start capping out. After that wealth does not matter, so wear whatever you want.
Not a streamer, I'm a bit slow about playing so it's not the most exciting to watch. Editing it into a more compressed and entertaining package works best I think.
in min 26 you have a colonist surrounded by a barricade and 3 stones on top, so i was wondering, do the cover of the barricade and the cover of the stones % stack?
This is why bionics arent always better than normal ogans. a lance shot doing 30 dmg might hit a bionic arm and take it off - but if it is a human arm, there is a chance it just takes off a finger.
I dont own Rimworld (yet!). But I am enjoying all your Rimworld series along with the ONI series. Watched this episode just to give my boy the view counts 😅. Addicted to Squad these days.
Tough trait could make a difference if the colonist is lucky to have it regarding headshots. High quality cataphract helmet only reducing a charge lance to half, tough would reduce it again to about 7 damage. But they will still die to a second hit and theres no way to fully restore a brain to max health outside a very few number of mods out there. One i can think of is expanded bionics and organs forked, in addition to letting you increase brain max hp(and other body parts, it can be potentially op on a tough pawn).
A fully decked out tough pawn should in theory be incapable of being one shot. You can heal brain damage with lucy or a healer mech serum though that is expensive or difficult to acquire.
@@FrancisJohnYT Aye yeah i forgot about those since i never see them actually show up. It might be due to Epoe forked adding scar and brain damage removal. Even if they were in a vanilla id end up only using them on an extremely critical pawn.
How do the trait "Tough" and/or the Gene "Robust" add up to the protection. If you have both, all incoming dmg is reduced from 100 to 38% (without any other armor). Also with a production specualist it's not very difficult to support all your pawns with masterpiece quipment. So a brain/heart shot shouldn't be onehit-kill a tough and robust pawn at all.
That is the hope and dream, Tough, nimble, brawler. Stick robust, extra melee damage, deathrest speed boost, legendary zeus hammer and shield belt. Leaping into battle to smite our enemies.
Hmm, I wonder how the robust gene factors in? Theory crafting has that it can nudge you over the threshold to stop instant death by anything other than diabolus hellsphere cannon.
Tough plus Robust means you only take 38% damage. Throw in legendary armour and you are going to be near impossible to kill unless you get caught out and surrounded.
Hi still a beginner in Rimworld, On end-game, is it good to have a combination of charge rifles / assault rifles and charge lances? As mechanoids feels like the most deadly one, is it always good to have 2 charge lance to destroy the tanky centipedes? Or just go with AR or Charge rifles or even melee??
In testing the Charge rifle is the best all round gun, high damage and great armour pierce. Second best gun is the minigun, slightly lower damage, better range but it slows down your pawn. After that comes the heavy SMG. The charge lance and sniper are more for doing hit and run, once you get bogged down in a fire fight their slower rate of fire drastically reduces their effectiveness, you would be better off with an auto pistol at that point. I tested all the main weapons in the video linked below. ruclips.net/video/fFjPzn_NNAg/видео.html
I had a weird thing happen with damage. I pawn was hit with an arrow. It destroyed their spine, but did no other damage. The pawn was at still at full health, no bleeding. It was like psychic surgery.
"it's like they don't exist or something" They actually don't; looking at cyborgs via debug hediff remover rather than the health tab reveals a bunch of hidden "missing bodypart" hediffs from the replaced limb. So a bionic arm would come with the flesh arm itself, all the fingers, the hand and all bones listed as "gone". I tried to restore those "missing" parts while the robo arm was still on but the game started screaming error messages so I didn't go too deep.
It's only a small difference but yes. Considering how easy it is to acquire I would say devilstrand and flak vests can last you all the way to end game. Going heavy armour, marine or better is possible but really really expensive.
I think you glossed over a minor fact that when armor mitigates sharp damage, it is converted into blunt damage, which is why they were getting bruises instead of bleeding wounds
To answer your question yes it makes them much more survivable. As long as you are willing to eat the movement speed penalty. I just like having all my pawns wear the stuff sense it really helps their survivability until I can get marine armor.
![[SFM] Risky Recital](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzNkY1_Nk3o/mqdefault.jpg)
One good reason to have devilstrand underclothes, inferno cannons.
Still early since vid posting, but this is a highly underrated comment. i.e. not enough likes.
cheers S.
one good reason to have devilstrand everything: it looks amazing
Does it just increase heat tolerance or does it reduce pawn flammability / 'on fire' time after being soaked in chemfuel?
@@sednabold859 It does nothing for "heat tolerance", your pawn will die quickly if he visits a room at 1000 celsius, it does allow you to survive the barrage of an orbital laser/inferno cannon/molotov, and other assorted sources of fire damage.
Named my colony the Phantom Thieves of Hearts and have everyone in devilstrand dusters
I have over 600hours in rimworld and i have never seen a more clear and concise breakdown of how to protect your pawns. I appreciate the effort that you put into this, and my pawns may well owe you their lives (or at least their extremities)
@@eddyvluggen I will smooth all the stone
@@bubsmcgee6048 lmao
Players: "Nooo! You can't just ignore armor and one-shot my pawns!"
Lancer: "Haha. Heart goes POOF!"
Raiders: "Nooo! you can't just ignore out bullets like that!"
Francis: "Haha, legendairy cataphract armour go cling!"
I'm a scientist by training and profession. These breakdowns are impressive. I'm imagining you pausing the game during a fight, performing some supervised clustering of relevant data, building a small predictive model, unpausing the game for a couple shots, pausing again, updating the data, running the model again,... lol. Keep it up!
Love these tutorial nuggets. They're the best source of Rimworld info on RUclips. Most of my insta-deaths weren't from lancers, but unlucky headshots from centipedes and tribal archers on pawns who were wearing flak helmets at the time. Taught me the value of the extra protection afforded by recon and marine helmets. Almost every pawn on my first playthough had a crushed nose.
"You can get Bon Jovi'd no matter what you do."
-Francis John, 2020
i just need one of these tutorial nuggets for melee and ill finally know what im doing in combat
There's a reason I fight lancers by skipping them into my melee pawns :D And yea, stoneskin glands are amazing. In vanilla they have an added benefit: They don't become tattered. A one time investment, and a pawn that moves slightly slower and is a bit more ugly (mitigated by beauty implants) but is alive is much better than a pretty, dead pawn that was moving a bit faster.
Beauty implants? Vanilla or mod?
(I'm still playing 1.0)
cheers MN
@@wreckcelsior aesthetic shaper and aesthetic nose both increase beauty.
@@rymes14 Thanks for response... are they vanilla in 1.1?
cheers.
@rexsupreme1840 Thanks.
Stoneskin is NUTS. Give a guy some decent armor on top of it and they're nearly unstoppable.
Some pretty good info, thanks for taking the time to collect the data! It's nice to know that there's always some risk in combat. Being able to mitigate 100% would get boring fairly quickly.
Wow! The sheer amount of time to make the setup not to mention analize it... FJ you are incredible! Thank you so much!
Thanks for showing the absolute shite ton of work needed to get the 100 Lancers, which means there must follow a HUGE THANKS for doing all the science. "THANKS!" GREAT job.
cheers Francis.
You actually can have a pawn that is immune to lancer instakill shots. If a tough pawn has every vital part covered by 145 armor layer, no lancer can oneshot it.
Thanks for all the info! Been playing rimworld for more than 1000 hours now, but did not have concrete info on how important armor was. The tests mustve took a while, so thanks for doing them!
These are by far some of the best tutorials on this game. Fantastic ♥️
Hmm in late game I usually run around with bionics and masterwork/legendary recon armor as well as toughskin gland and thrumbofur skin layer. Thank you for the video. (If anyone is interested in how you can spam masterwork/legendary gear then the answer is called word of inspiration, meaning that you need the royalty dlc and a powerful psycaster or 2)
I can only imagine the amount of Labor it took to make this video. Thank you so much for the knowledge bomb. Very useful
First ONI, now Rimworld. You spoil us with these half hour videos, FJ. It is appreciated!
Damn FJ you're a saint for datamining this for us plebs
I really enjoy these tutorial nuggets!
Charge lancer are the bane of my existence. One shooting pawns zzz
I'd love to see a breakdown on prisoner recruitment, I can't find anything really definitive. What is the absolutely ideal condition to keep a prisoner in, and how can you do it most efficiently early.
Really excited for a new rimworld series!
Thanks for making this video. I'll focus on getting flak vests over helmets done next time I start a new colony.
*sees all you did to test this game* clearly your patience is legendary!
You should totally dress you "involuntary test subjects" into rimworld equivalent of orange jumpsuits. (SCP reference)
This channel is like Project Farm, but for RimWorld. Incredible detail!
Wow this must have been a pain to tabulate. You're what keeps the community alive and well, thank you!
19:05 the game (in Vanilla) treats bionics as if the dependent parts (i.e. hands, fingers, feet, toes) no longer exist which is why you don't see damage those those parts in pawns with bionics
8:25 Nearly 2 years later, and he's equipping a full colony in masterwork+ gear. Production specialists from the ideology DLC are beasts at their job.
Even now, this guide is still extremely handy. Sidenote for Royalty expansion: dusters and capes have near identical stats, the only real difference is market value. Dusters are still the safer option for wealth management reasons, and they're quicker to produce as well.
Formal shirts, meanwhile, are more expensive than button downs in both wealth AND raw material, with less insulation.
I absolutely loved the video , and I have to say , I always liked to use Recon armor with Marine helmet (since they don't reduce speed) with devilstrand underclother because of fires and heat in general and after the introduction of cataphract I even thought about the possibility of using everyone with cataphract but it's way too expensive to have in everyone, soo i change the marine to the cataphract helmet and that is my set to everyone unless they are 100% melee at this point I would just use a shield belt with full Cataphract .
just to explain how much cheaper it's , with 4 Advanced component you can make someone , recon armor (3 adv components) + Cataphract helmet (1 adv components), instead of paying 7 for each colonist , to have full cataphract , 3 adv may sound a small amount but I don't think it's actually ,I have a colony with 19 people that mean I saved 57 adv component , If someone take a shot and for some reason something in them get destroy , I can just replace by something bionic with 4 adv meaning i could repair or replace 8 people if they for some reason lose something , but believe me at this point your turrets can just tank and explode in the enemy's faces while you shoot from the back . you also could build another 19 charge rifles and still saved 19 adv components and if that it's not enough and you just wants money you could saved 200 silver per adv components meaning around 11000 silver even if your social colonist is garbage. cataphract it's good but it's too expensive.
English it's my first language obviously soo don't be to harsh but I would love to hear your opinion.
So the way mitigation works is one of two ways. The main way I was calculating it was if the outer layer mitigates it, the damage type is changed to blunt, damage gets halved, and then on the next layer the armor calc runs again but vs blunt protection. This is what I found after an exhaustive search of relevant threads on reddit. It also appears to be wrong.
The guy who made the "thick armor" mod actually went into the code to find out how it works: if the outer layer mitigates, the damage is changed to blunt, damage is halved, but when it gets to the next layer, despite it now being blunt, its still challenging vs that layers sharp protection value.
So yeah, remember back in the single digit episodes where I kept saying armor skin type glands were garbage? I was wrong.
When I get home later I'll pull out the spreadsheet I made and find the effective hit point values for each gear setup you went over here. VS both the charge lance and autopistol. For a start tho, I can tell you with certainty that a naked pawn has 100% EHP.
Got a link to the thick armor guys findings?
@@DSlyde Should be right on the mods workshop page in my brief exchange with him around august 6th of this year.
@@avder42 thanks, ill go have a hunt for it
Best rimworld tutos I've met so far, insta sub, and ty o/
Another question that came to my mind, if bionic limbs are naturally protected, will having a bionic heart also reduce their chance of dying? What about a prosthetic heart?
The bionic arms just protect the hands and fingers because it removes the hands and fingers from being shot. The arm can still get shot and a bionic heart can still be shot
The prosthetic heart has less hitpoints than a normal heart, it makes death by heart destruction more likely.
@@teecee1827 but like francis said: if a Part get more damage than it has HP, it might survive with 1hp left... maybe less is more - in this case
@@grandfremdling3841 Well, no, because if it was going to do more damage than it has HP anyway (Hence 1 shot), then less health doesn't protect it.
Bionic legs don’t have feet bionic arms don’t have hands, Swapping organs for bionic versions doesn’t give them more hitpoints or lower any chances, maybe bionic organs bleed less I forget
"Alright Neo! We'll call it a draw!"
I know it's been 10 months, but combine the legendaries cataphract armor and hyperwave with the stoneskin and a pawn with the Tough trait, boom, it's now unkillable
nice
The Though trait does mean you can make a pawn strong enough to tank any single lance shot.
Have a pawn with Armour Skin Gland, Full Legendary Cataphract Armour, the Tough trait and Trigger Happy to have the ultimate soldier.
Also known as Doom Guy.
Thanks for testing this for us. I was wondering about the same question but was too lazy to do the testing myself.
Recently had a pawn take a charge shot to the head, her masterwork recon helmet reduced it to a bruise that turned into a permanent brain injury to the tune of 8/10 hit points. After realizing she was stuck in hospital unable to move for an in game week I realized I could dose her with go juice and get her into a biosculptor pod to fix the permanent injury.
I'm so glad biosculptor pods were introduced, before that your only choice for brain injuries was luciferium.
@@FrancisJohnYT I still have to resort to that for Frail colonists but still, major improvement
I really like these tutorial videos. Super useful.
super amazing video i'm surprised you didn't add the toughness trait as well though. not sure if there are other traits that affect damage but toughness is insane for sticking a pawn in heavy fire.
Great video, now I know why my best colonists keep dying instantly to mech raids. Now I can give em a good duster, helmet and flak vest and they will be a-ok!
massive points for the data collection! epic work!
I fucking love your series and these tutoriales are so fantastic you're everything I've ever hoped for rimworld
i have over 1100 hours of rust and i still enjoy your tutorial videos :D
I hope you have pawns working around the clock to make a suitable legendary statue in memorial of the brave pawns that took the hits so that other pawns could benefit!
Don't even play rimworld myself but watching this anyway c:
You should give it a try yourself, it's really fun!
...at least if you don't get one-shot by lancers in an early-game quest.
This was very helpful. Could I ask for some clarification, though? First, does this mean that armor layers are discrete? So a hit to the torso of a pawn wearing a thrumbo fur duster (60% sharp) and shirt (40% sharp) the damage vs. the duster is calculated first, then the remaining damage is calculated against the shirt? Second, does all damage passing through armor become blunt, or only for advanced armors?
Yes and yes. The roll he talks about is done for each layer. So it could potentially roll against duster, flak vest, shirt and skin gland.
So a vest and duster have 4 different outcome - stopped (by either layer), halved (mitigated by one but not both layers), quartered (mitigated by both) and complete penetration.
Any halving of sharp damage becomes blunt, no matter if its a shirt or power armor. EDIT: this happens when any remaining damage is finally applied to the pawn as an injury though - even if the first layer converts halves the damage and converts it to blunt, the subsequent layers all check against the sharp armor of the pawn.
@@DSlyde Mind. Blown.
In all serious though that makes for some difficult calculations if you want to min-max layers. I usually play tribals and getting decent armor before the nasty raids come in is all but impossible so I try to make sure everyone has the best possible leathers.
Edit: I just checked the wiki and thankfully it looks like except for lizardskin the sharp and blunt amounts mostly scale together (better sharp armor has better blunt protection).
@@DSlyde But isn't the correct order from outer to inner layer? so first it hits the duster (likely completely penetrates) then hits the vest, gets halved and finally rolls again against the skin layer button down shirt for blunt and finally on skin gland?
in this case the duster would be only useful as an extra protection to your extremities
@@brohvakiindova4452 So we found out after I made that comment that the game lies to you and doesn't actually change the damage into blunt until its actually applied to the pawn. So its still testing against sharp armor for every layer even if the very first layer halves the damage. We had to look at the actual game code to figure this out. I've edited the comment to remove/fix that section so it won't confuse others people. Hope that clears things up, if not, ask away.
@@DSlyde good to know, no my confusion is about the order of layers and how they work because I read many comments (might be totally outdated from B18 or even alpha) saying something along the lines of: "if your pawn wears cataphract armor, any armor beneath it will never be able to stop the damage that already was able to go through cataphract" and also that, if you're wearing a duster over flak vest, the duster will likely be completely penetrated/ignored for calculations
but by the comments here it seems more like that's only the case if the halved damage is still too much to handle for, say a hyperweave button down shirt
additionally the bottom line of armor seems like giving your pawns quality clothing and a flak vest/helmet combo is incredibly effective and power armor seems a little expensive or rather out of proportion for all the material and work you need
I love the simulation approach used to answer these questions.
12:04 - Sure, only one was _incapacitated,_ but the data clearly shows there was also one who was *incapicated.*
I like the break down at the end. *nods* neat!
I guess that's why my tribals are doing so well against mechanoids. Bunch of inspired crafts on legendary plasteel plate and the protection with devilstrand shirt n pants is a lovely 150% sharp left my fresh off electricity tribals doing good work. Pretty new to the game so good to know how all this works
Good point, I'll flog it off on the next trade run assuming the tribal raid does not mess us up to badly.
dont forget to add the tough trait!, those pawns will never die!
The flak vest neck armour would probably be explained by something like the ILR 6b45 body armour, and many others, which do have neck protection
Sure, but the neck protectors on flak are tiny and pathetic. Good for shrapnel and that's it. You can't fit a full sized ceramic plate over your neck.
Dang, another amazing science vid. Thanks!
I have a pawn that has tough and a burning passion for melee. Threw stoneskin on him and cataphract armor, and I was able to seems him in to any problem and they weren't a problem anymore.
Its worthy to note with damage testing that the number of bionics that a pawn has does increase the chances of the pawn getting shot in the torso or head. When they get a bionic, technically the limb is gone and can't be shot so the shots go to the torso instead
this is no longer the case and you can even see cracked bionic limbs in the video.
I do not know why I watched the whole video but I just... didn't feel like turning it off :P Good job haha.
I believe that when a shot gets halved from the first layer, it gets converted to blunt damage, but if it hits another layer the calculations are still made using the sharp armor, not the blunt armor.
It is a bullet, still after all. Theres no reason to calculate it based on the blunt armor
Especially since the only reason blunt armor in this game is so low is to make people use blunt weapons.
It's always calculated using the sharp armor, but when it finally hits, it hits with blunt damage
The dedication of this man... dammmnnnn. I can barely even finish a sandwich
Great vids as always.. My go to gear at late game is full bionic, asethic shaper and nose(to counter the neg beauty from stoneskin), stoneskin and pheonix armor and A few thing i might add..
- U can change the setting on one shoot kill on 1.2 if u want or just play ce
- And shield belt isnt a problem if u manage it well by using shocklance or skip them near ur pawn before they drop the shield and emp grenade usually dont work very well cos u need to get close.. Emp launcher however work wonder..
what about the Tough trait? How much does that help?
Tough only applies to damage taken, so any damage the armor doesn't stop is just halved
That's only for melee, or so I think. You'd need testing to prove anything.
@@thesentientneuron6550 Now I'm curious, I never pay enough attention to damage taken during fights. All I can find is text that says 50% reduction in all damage taken
Tough reduces all damage taken by 50% (including gunshots)
@@jozsefszanto1660 Have you tested this?
tbh the flak vests we were using in the military had a neck ring that is supposed to be closed in the front as well
21:50 i was about to comment my disappointment with the non-bonjoviness quotes.thank u for that
Going from 19% to 15% is actually very significant.
Think of it this way:
If at 19% you got hit X times, at 15% you would be hit 3/4X. So despite it being declared as 4 percent difference, it is actually one quarter of the remainder.
It's more about weapons armour pierce, even a pump shotgun has 14 AP. So with 19% you have a 5% chance to half the damage and at 15% you only have 1%. That is with the pump shotgun, with better weapons it gets even worse.
The Heavy SMG have 18 AP :) one of my favourite weapons.
@@FrancisJohnYT i see what you mean, but I was mostly relating to 20:45 where you kinda gloss over stone skin decreasing the hits from 19 to 15.8
By the way, thanks for great content. I'm somewhat new to the game and learned a lot from you guides
I liked the technical details at the end credits
23:00 dude, if only that marine armor was black
Holy crap Tynan that is too perfect
Ren shall from now on be known as "Mat"
Thanks this was a huge help
This is really good to know. I have a bad habit of sacrificing everything to get that amazing marine helmet when my pawns don't have torso protection. Clearly that is an awful decision.
@Francis John, does this go to show the Toughness perk is super OP? Considering its basically a built in suit of armor that never deteriorates, doesn't slow you down, weighs nothing, doesn't add value to colony for raids
Depends on if you get to late game high quality armor. Tough can never deflect damage it only reduces everything by half. So with the right armor it should be impossible to be one shot.
thanks for all the data @Francis John
Well, you deserve a like.
And a comment for the algorithm
Dear Francis John,
Might I recommend a study which evaluates armour performance during a sustained fire-fight. Specifically how armour improves survivability against multiple shots. Perhaps a smaller sample of pawns, being hit multiple times until death or incapacitation. I would be very curious what the likelihood of sustaining multiple hits to the torso in the same fight is
It's funny that gloves and boots aren't a thing in this game. So you get guys in full power armor with bare feet and exposed hands.
I imagine them as 40k space marines with bare feet and no gloves.
Well many do leave their helmets like dumbasses
I have a question regarding “multilayer" covering armors like plate and power armors, is the damage calculated only once by considering all the layers they cover as 1 single layer or is each layer considered separate and thus the damage is calculated multiple times for each layer with the same equipped "multilayer" armor?
The wiki says the remaining damage will have the "same process done with the item on the lower layer" but doesn't specify if the multiple layers covered by the same armor are counted separately or not.
If damage is to the torso and the pawn is only wearing plate armour then the damage calculation is done once, assuming it "rolls" penetrates it does it's damage to the torso. Then it checks to see if it hit something in the torso like a kidney, liver, heart etc. The same damage that was applied to the torso is then applied to the organ.
Layer damage refers to clothing layers. Say a shirt with a flak vest worn over it, shot hits flak vest and successfully penetrates, then the damage has to try rolling again to penetrating the shirt.
@@FrancisJohnYT then it makes any power armor, except the helmets, very underpowered, and the flak vest very, very op
@@FrancisJohnYT considering that realistically speaking, no raider/mechanoid will probably spawn with a charge lance of masterwork or above, making the max relevant ap 45%, a masterwork flak vest has 145% armor, it has already all the armor necessary to halve "all" shots, shots that were possibly already mitigated by the duster and then mitigated again by the shirt and skin, it probably outclasses even the cataphract armor as, even if the cataphract armor can technically reach higher sharp armor, 145% covers already "everything" and going higher is probably "useless", it has significantly higher cost of material and research, it slows pawn way more and even the useless awful quality impacts wealth more than a masterwork flak vest, the only advantage it offers is a higher blunt armor, relevant predominantly only in melee with gun wielding people since most of not all melee oriented enemies use "sharp" weapons, the extra protection of arms and legs is questionable for the cost as, still, no hand is protected, with all the wealth and material saved, one could already be investing in bionics
@@ennou1236 I get where you are coming from. I have been running almost exclusively on flak vests. However consider raid point cap. Once raids hit a set size they start capping out. After that wealth does not matter, so wear whatever you want.
Do you stream? Love the videos!
Not a streamer, I'm a bit slow about playing so it's not the most exciting to watch. Editing it into a more compressed and entertaining package works best I think.
@@FrancisJohnYT Take the leap man. People would enjoy just talking to you. You have one of those voices. Either way, wish you good health and luck.
My organs ache just from thinking about the charge lance.
Alright so finally getting around to getting these numbers.
Vs Charge lance, 45 ArPen
Baseline/Naked: 100% EHP
Heavy Fur Duster (48.4% sharp) and wool undergarments: 102.62% EHP.
Flak Jacket/Wool undies (52% Sharp): 105.54% EHP
Devistrand Duster/Flak Vest/Wool undies (54.6/130 sharp): 297.27% EHP
Plasteel Flak Helmet (103.74% sharp): 178.75% EHP.
Flak Jacket/Flak Vest/Wool undies: 291.15% EHP.
Cataphract Armor/wool undies (156% sharp): 449.44% EHP.
Marine Armor (137.8%): 328.95% EHP
Phoenix Armor (149.5): 418.85%
Legendary Cataphract (200%): 888.89% EHP.
Legendary Cataphract/Legendary Hyperweave Undies (200/72): 1,114.59% EHP
Legendary Cataphract/Legendary Hyperweave Undies/Stoneskin (200/72/70): 1,371.81% EHP
Vs Machine Pistol, 9 ArPen
Legendary Cataphract/Legendary Hyperweave Undies: 8,425.49% EHP
Legendary Cataphract/Legendary Hyperweave Undies/Stoneskin: 15,530.85% EHP
Other setups vs machine pistol:
Heavy Fur Duster/Wool undies: 142.33% EHP
Flak Jacket/Wool: 148%
Devilstrand/Flak Vest: 771.58%
Plasteel Flak Helmet: 346.42%
Flak Jacket/Vest/Wool: 749.37%
Cataphract/Wool: 756.76% (wait what? It's because with ArPen so small, multiple layers of good protection become much better than one layer of superb protection)
Marine Armor: 556.32%
Phoenix Armor: 674.09%
Legendary Cataphract/Wool: 4,456.48%
Now imagine that Neo test against all those machine pistols but add some psycast to him LOL
Or a jump pack... or a shield belt... can you imagine the horror?
in min 26 you have a colonist surrounded by a barricade and 3 stones on top, so i was wondering, do the cover of the barricade and the cover of the stones % stack?
This is why bionics arent always better than normal ogans. a lance shot doing 30 dmg might hit a bionic arm and take it off - but if it is a human arm, there is a chance it just takes off a finger.
not gonna lie but i think the IMP vs shield thing is the one I wanna try more out of this video.
a deal: your time. for? the knowledge to conquer worlds. francis awaits your answer
I wonder how well a pawn would do with maxed out blunt damage against one in that armor.
WOW !!!! And you still have a life !!!
Awesome job !!! LOL
I dont own Rimworld (yet!). But I am enjoying all your Rimworld series along with the ONI series. Watched this episode just to give my boy the view counts 😅. Addicted to Squad these days.
thanks this is jsut crazy... work you did there
Tough trait could make a difference if the colonist is lucky to have it regarding headshots. High quality cataphract helmet only reducing a charge lance to half, tough would reduce it again to about 7 damage. But they will still die to a second hit and theres no way to fully restore a brain to max health outside a very few number of mods out there. One i can think of is expanded bionics and organs forked, in addition to letting you increase brain max hp(and other body parts, it can be potentially op on a tough pawn).
A fully decked out tough pawn should in theory be incapable of being one shot. You can heal brain damage with lucy or a healer mech serum though that is expensive or difficult to acquire.
@@FrancisJohnYT Aye yeah i forgot about those since i never see them actually show up. It might be due to Epoe forked adding scar and brain damage removal. Even if they were in a vanilla id end up only using them on an extremely critical pawn.
22:55 "tis but a flesh wound!"
i been doing armor wrong all this time, thanks
How do the trait "Tough" and/or the Gene "Robust" add up to the protection. If you have both, all incoming dmg is reduced from 100 to 38% (without any other armor). Also with a production specualist it's not very difficult to support all your pawns with masterpiece quipment. So a brain/heart shot shouldn't be onehit-kill a tough and robust pawn at all.
That is the hope and dream, Tough, nimble, brawler. Stick robust, extra melee damage, deathrest speed boost, legendary zeus hammer and shield belt. Leaping into battle to smite our enemies.
Hmm, I wonder how the robust gene factors in?
Theory crafting has that it can nudge you over the threshold to stop instant death by anything other than diabolus hellsphere cannon.
Tough plus Robust means you only take 38% damage. Throw in legendary armour and you are going to be near impossible to kill unless you get caught out and surrounded.
If you play with the Alpha Animals mod black insect chitin is by far the best early/mid-game leather, bordering on OP.
There acually is a way to avoid insta kills
Its called shild belt
Al tho only for your melee pawn but still very good
Hi still a beginner in Rimworld,
On end-game, is it good to have a combination of charge rifles / assault rifles and charge lances?
As mechanoids feels like the most deadly one, is it always good to have 2 charge lance to destroy the tanky centipedes?
Or just go with AR or Charge rifles or even melee??
In testing the Charge rifle is the best all round gun, high damage and great armour pierce. Second best gun is the minigun, slightly lower damage, better range but it slows down your pawn. After that comes the heavy SMG.
The charge lance and sniper are more for doing hit and run, once you get bogged down in a fire fight their slower rate of fire drastically reduces their effectiveness, you would be better off with an auto pistol at that point.
I tested all the main weapons in the video linked below.
ruclips.net/video/fFjPzn_NNAg/видео.html
I had a weird thing happen with damage. I pawn was hit with an arrow. It destroyed their spine, but did no other damage. The pawn was at still at full health, no bleeding. It was like psychic surgery.
"it's like they don't exist or something"
They actually don't; looking at cyborgs via debug hediff remover rather than the health tab reveals a bunch of hidden "missing bodypart" hediffs from the replaced limb. So a bionic arm would come with the flesh arm itself, all the fingers, the hand and all bones listed as "gone". I tried to restore those "missing" parts while the robo arm was still on but the game started screaming error messages so I didn't go too deep.
Add tough, jogger and psicasts like Focus or Skip and play predator
does the devilstrand duster/flak vest build makes any difference if the pants and shirt are also made out of devilstrand ?
It's only a small difference but yes. Considering how easy it is to acquire I would say devilstrand and flak vests can last you all the way to end game.
Going heavy armour, marine or better is possible but really really expensive.
I think you glossed over a minor fact that when armor mitigates sharp damage, it is converted into blunt damage, which is why they were getting bruises instead of bleeding wounds
I assume you didn't watch the entire video because he goes over it on 24 minute.
@@bruhder5854 I commented before watching the full thing because he glossed over it at first, but yes he did get to it in the end
So as someone who plays tribal . . .what about Plate armor? Steel Plate + devilstrand duster is usually the best I can do =(
To answer your question yes it makes them much more survivable. As long as you are willing to eat the movement speed penalty. I just like having all my pawns wear the stuff sense it really helps their survivability until I can get marine armor.