Russia's Project 677 Lada-Class SSK Sub Brief
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- The Lada-class submarine is a class of diesel-electric submarines built by Russia. The project is also known as the "Amur-class" or "Project 677." The Lada-class submarines were designed as an improvement over the older Kilo-class submarines, offering enhanced stealth capabilities and advanced technology.
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This is a much more relaxed, conversational lecture I did in 2022 for the Patrons. You need to have patience for me to get to the point in a few parts. Let me know if you like this kind of lecture style.
Honestly I prefer the more ""professional"" briefs. I don't mind the little ad-hoc stuff thrown in or the slight tangents, but they have structure and this one is a bit all over the place which makes it hard to follow.
Still appreciate the time and effort that you put into these however, still one of the most interesting people on RUclips!
This was great, I love this stuff and your bits of commentary
I love all the sub briefs. They are factual and cover the topic better than any other channel out there
Would love to see an entire lecture on battery technology for diesel electric submarines from WW2 to present day
10 knots on the surface, 21 knots submerged... Shouldn't that be the other way around?
its a Lada, what did you expect?
I expected more, but all I got was a Lada junk. 😡
The lada car’s last longer and if you know how to drive won’t kill you 😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, for real. At least, it’s not a moskvich, though. As a Cuban kid, the moskvich left a worse impression.😂
I doubled the value of my Lada once. Filled it with petrol/gas.
Man, I didn't think it's possible to chisel a Lada Niva to this shape.
TBH, I think the Lads Niva is a more useful vehicle! 😂
🤣🤣🤣 I had friends that did a lot of off roading and they actually liked the Niva. They were cheap to buy, easy to upgrade and almost never got stuck.
I was looking to build an off road vehicle. I looked at a couple of Nivas and then decided to wait for the Iltis to come on the market. But the Iltis were really expensive. (Companies bought them in lots and then charged an arm and a leg for them).
@@PercyPruneMHDOIFandBars after having watched this presentation, I must concur. Indonesians did wise to bail on this bullet.
The thought of Niva occured to me from an old Soviet joke:
The Japanese ordered a MiG-25 as parts (oh, the irony), they finally get it shipped and all the "kit" contained was a chisel and a steam locomotive. After some confused searching for the parts of the jet, the Japanese inspected the diagram, which at the top said: Chisel to the specified shape.
Chisel? Of course not. This requires welding, hammers, and vodka!
Garage 54 knows how to do miracles 😂
My first car was my dad's Lada back in 92, I guess this is going to be natural progression for me.
And I've been saving for this moment.
AC generators have lower maintenance than DC generators. AC generators are either brushless or slip ring, I would guess it has slip rings, because they are not making and breaking contact constantly they last much longer. Slip rings allow power feed to the stator to vary power output. Secondarily AC generators generally are voltage controlled (I dont know enough about naval DC generators, but I am aware of voltage controlled DC generator) so you can set the prime mover at a speed and vary the stator field and make whatever power is required. Thirdly in some applications AC generators produce more power for their size compared to DC generators
Thanks.
The closest to submarine-size generators would probably be loc size generators (not THAT much difference), and the switched into all-AC mode quite some time ago... Thanks to semiconductor power-converters, they can go AC-DC-AC (eg. rectifier and then variable frequency inverter) easily, in relaticelly small space and weight. The generators/engines are smaller and more robust in AC version, and thanks to variable frequency has full strenght in different speed modes...
I came the comments to make a Lada joke, I see people are already there - great job team, carry on.
On a side note - can't wait for the Skoda class..
😂😂😂
*Me trying to get stuff done on a Sunday.*
Sub Brief: "Not on my watch sailor." *posts*
13:55 I think it was just a misspeak, but breech-loading is from the back. Muzzle-loading is from the front.
Thanks for another great video.
yeah, I definitely mis-spoke there.
Only reason I can think for AC Generation, is that it would be brushless. Admittedly DC would be nicer all around ( you are nor transmitting electricity any real distance, so loss isn't an issue)
Most trains are AC as as far as I know. So controlling them shouldn't be that difficult for the Russia.
The fact it generates AC is not a problem, converting to DC is easy and reliable (except apparently for Russian designers). Why it is causing a problem is the real question. I suspect a lack of high powered rectifiers or materials to make them. Even that shouldn't be a problem, simply use multiple lower power ones.
It has to be corruption. Just buy off the shelf high power rectifiers / voltage converters from a European brand like Siemens. Probably the money wasn't there, while a friend of a friend pocketed the money for this part and hand soldered something together with junkyard components.
@@GeraldMMonroe while corruption is an issue, that's not how it works with high end naval shipyards. You are more likely to have the contract awarded for a firm with political connections, that promised an overspeced fantasy component. That firm then subcontracts the design after taking the profiteering cut. The subcontractor, an actual engineering firm, delivers a product that can be made AFTER their profits - it's competent, but nowhere near the fantasy spec - whoops... The difference between Russia and USA is, USA then increases funding to get the dream component and eats the cost blowout, while Russia just accepts the delivered product and hopes for the best - most of the components aren't THAT much out of spec, but the cumulative effect of everything being slightly off, is that the performance rarely hits the target.
@@lucidnonsense942 Well in russia this is a problem, this happend to the navy, army and navy from russian and china.
This is why the newst Chinese carrier received a landing deck made of normal cheap construction steel used for rebars...
Oh so many Lada jokes come screaming to the front of mind. But in all seriousness, I really do appreciate the briefs you do.
Thank you
As a lay person with an amateur interest in this kind of thing i appreciate these presentations....
You stated we had three Seawolf class submarines running around, which is not true. We have one that is operational (Jimmy Carter) and two floating parts lockers, FYI.
A German Type XXI submarine had a range of 340 nautical miles in 44. Given improvements in battery technology and submarine design and drag 600 is quite doable
Uh... SLA batteries have not improved/changed that much in the past 30 years. If it were something more akin to say... Lithium Cobalt like what Tesla used to use, then yes I'd be inclined to agree, or even LiFePo4 (which is superior and cheaper and less volatile) then it could casually reach that... but Sealed Lead Acid is so archaic that it's a wonder that these people would build several of these things and not use a modern day technology.
I was really impressed with the Type XXI submarine. We were fortunate that the class entered late in the war.
@@imglidinhere I'm beginning to wonder, I think we may be mirroring here ( seeing what we expect to see, not what is there). Repurposed parts, low tech solutions, what if this sub is the T-72 attrition sub that is designed to be built cheaply and attrited?
Aaron said she's using old-fashioned batteries. I don't understand your point about improvements in battery technology. He even said that if she had new style batteries she could go as far as claimed.
@@r.gilman4261Like russia has the money for that. And its called a drone sub.
Nice rundown. On your AC generator you can put out more power with an AC generator then doing DC and adding an inverter.
With the Lada name , it's got a great lineage
Thanks for the sub brief. I appreciate the work you do. Thank you for your service too.
AC electrical systems are lighter, higher voltages = lower amperage for the same delivered power, therefore less copper required. Airliners use AC power for this reason, then rectify to DC as required.
Interesting. I guess that would make sence to use in a submarine that already has minimum reserve boyancy.
Aaron, I always love watching your videos. Your insight is deeply appreciated, and I don't know I would've come across this otherwise. I'd love to see you do a video on the Trieste Bathyscaphe and its upgrade to the DSV-1 used for the recovery of a HEXAGON film capsule.
You keep posting, and I'll keep watching!
Awesome video as always, Would love to see a sub brief on the Yasen. Keep up the great work
Hey AARON great video.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Hey Sub Brief! Thanks for your Lada Class Sub Brief, I really enjoy listening to these briefs. If I may, a brief note on the sonar array: it's a horse-shoe sonar array hence why it looks like a WW2 era directional sonar in the line drawing.
Cheers!
Thank you for these interesting videos.
Just want to say your whole channel is really excellent!
Thanks! 😃
@@SubBriefSir can you do one on the Brazil upcoming nuclear submarine? As well as their Scorpene longer variant please ❤
Thanks for this info!
Love your work.
Cheers for the vid old chap.
News in April this year was that St Petersburg (that first Lada) will be decommissioned and scrapped.
Always interesting!
Awesome, Ive been waiting for another submarine brief
WWII UBoats did not use mechanical steering for sonar (except for the KDG - Crystal rotating base device, using a rotatable bar with a line of crystals), but used electrical delay lines for a row of hydrophones to constructively interference from a certain direction.
Changing how many delay lines are between a given hydrophone and the headphones was done by turning a wheel. The back had contact strips going over brushes from the hydrophones and connecting to the delay lines via circular tracks and brushes.
So a mechanical steering for hydrophones is not up to date by WWII technology, beam forming is.
For sonar, say ASDIC, it is a different story in WWII, that was IIRC mechanically directed.
Interesting stuff. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
As a Lada class submersible, was it equipped with an auxiliary hand crankable ballast, or propulsion system. In case of mechanization failure, it could be a very useful feature.
Considering the restart of Kilo (Project 636.3), the improved Kilos, it doesn't make sense to continue with the Lada class.
On the choice of using an AC generator, its possible that there are different power requirements. The generator has to match up pretty well with is biggest single consumer of power. Its possible that the propulsion motor is an AC powered design.
It's really amazing when everything was in service how many people were working a complex machine together, especially when underway and under fire. Very intricate
Been here since you were just doing cold waters livestreams. Good to see you getting more views Aaron, thank you
Appreciate your info. Very much 👍💫🙏💞
From the same people behind RBMK reactors, the Ufa Incident, and the Kyshtym disaster. What could go wrong?
The reactors are fine, but maybe put them inside a better containment structure.
@@zolikoff Those reactors are not fine. They can go into a positive feedback loop, a disaster waiting to happen. They are the only commercial reactor to have this characteristic.
@@KI4HOK Not quite. CANDU also has a positive void coefficient. Positive void coefficient is fine by itself, you can deal with it. The RBMK design was even updated post-accident to address this; but the main point is that with a containment structure the "disaster waiting to happen" is averted. You can lose a reactor but that's it. And guess what, reactors with a negative void coefficient have also been lost. That's an economic problem for the owner.
Also, as a final corollary, even if it's one of the "worst" nuclear reactor designs, the RBMK is still one of the best energy sources in the world... by virtue of being a nuclear reactor :)
One of the things that apparently died along with the Soviet Union was the Russian educational system. According to many commentators I've read/watched, they haven't really produced any proper engineers, statesmen, etc since 1990-ish. That being the case, I would expect the notable sharp drop in the quality of Russian naval design represents the retirement/passing of the folks who knew what they were doing... and there was nobody to take their place. 😕
They actually still make a lot of very good engineers. It is just that they dont go into the design bureaus any more. The money is way better in the private sector.
Uncle Jive !! Nice to see you man.
Hey, thanks
Sounds like it's a "Whole Lada Nothing"! Great Sub Brief on the Lada submarine! Thanks Aaron!
FYI: AC to DC uses a rectifier, not an inverter.
Awesome, new sub brief time
Awesome, thank you!
Broken diesel generator is not design flaw, is new stealth tech. Cannot make noise if it cannot turn on.
Thank you for your content, you are one of my favorite RUclipsrs. Wish you best of creativity and happiness from your work.
Thank you Aaron.
May Poseidon always be smiling at you and may the “Yellow Submarine” keep you cheerful!
👍🙂😉🦑🧜♂️
The active sonar better be hardbass on this sub.
Had the sub been produced the way she should have been and gone to see in 1995, this would be a very different Sub Brief. I think the primary problem is the production and construction of the ship, which occurred during and after the collapse of the Soviet Union. To put it nicely, this was not a good time for the Soviet military. People stole material, weapons, and parts of weapon systems not only to make a lot of money but just to survive. Conscripts weren't paid enough to eat. How did they get around this? They cannibalized systems. There's a joke about this era where in a general is unable to sell stolen tanks because the bridge by the army base was stolen.
I can't imagine that production standards, which were never great in the Soviet Union, were up to par in this era.
Newsweek reported on the Poseidon nuclear torpedo recently. Maybe we could get a new Poseidon video. A quote says the torpedo is fully ready to work as intended and they have finished testing parts of it and going to sea tests this summer
It's scary to even think Russia will be sea testing a gigantic nuclear powered nuclear torpedo
Poseidon is operational. Mothership Belgorod is in Sea Trials.
AC to DC is Rectification. DC to AC while accomplished in different ways depending on design is what people know as Inverting/Inverter etc. The higher the frequency of AC the smaller a Transformer can be for given hardware that's AC powered..
I would assume the reason the sub produces ac and converts it to dc is voltage drop. Using a voltage rectifier you can create constiant voltage. im no engineer though
I'm Indonesian, i think the other reason why we cancel it because in 98, currency crisis hit us badly, there is riot everywhere, so buying a sub is not that important at that time.
AC generators with DC rectifiers are smaller and easier to work on than a straight DC generator.
Given when this was designed and it’s propulsion system etc, how does it stack up against the now dated Australian Collins Class?
Minor clarification: Direct current is inverted into alternating current, but alternating current is rectified into direct current.
Do remember that the automotive industry - that uses DC for everything on cars - changed over from DC generation to AC generation 50 years ago. The did it for cheapness with 3+ times the output from the same weight of machine, plus car generator brushes were consumed over years while alternator brushes usually last the life of the machine.
Suggestion - change your cursor size, shape and color when pointing out things. It would help a lot.
"their LCS moment" says a lot. Maybe Russia should try to make the subs out of aluminum, too.
My Granpa had a Lada too. And it too tended to break down.
So does KIA make Submarines too?
Russia has been ambitious with their subs. The Akula class and the Typhoon class subs are very capable.
Were. I doubt they are now, given how we are fucking drowning in corruption.
However they make noise
@@genebaketwhat?
@@genebaketakula class was and is very quiet. Don’t know what you are on about
@@bobsemple9341 He means that they were louder than US subs, though the akulas managed to catch up in that regard.
I guess we're down to two seaworthy Seawoofs at this point.😂
我認為最主要的問題依然是在雅森出場之後 潛艇的主要作戰方式已經從魚雷隱蔽攻擊對方船艦改為飛彈/魚雷混合攻擊對方船艦
而傳統的潛艦對潛艦戰爭將會消失 飛機將會制霸整個對潛戰爭
也就是說 未來的拉達可能會像Amur 1050這樣有垂直發射管
Hi Sub, I thought you meant the wonderful Soviet legacy automobile 🚘. Guess I'll still watch,lol.
I really think there must be more info on how they managed to make such a sub-standard sub after the Kilo's. I mean how do you screw this up if you can make Kilo?
Good vid.
The cut view drawing shows "11. strong feeling" wth part of the boat is that???
DC to AC uses an inverter, but …
AC to DC is easier and uses a *rectifier.*
As you've pointed out before, the difference between NATO and Warsaw Pact torpedo tube placement. I was watching Down Periscope recently (historical accuracy be damned) but it got me thinking. When a sub is running on the surface, top mounted tubes become almost useless. Whereas the under mounted tubes of NATO allow subs to fire regardless of depth.
Ah yes, just the vehicle for when the parking lot... happens to be someone elses' harbor.
Edit: In theory, because this thing seems to be about as reliable as it's namesake so long as you don't leave 20 km from home.
But can it be repaired anywhere, with a hammer and swearing?
Major design details have changed.
Last I heard a lot of stuff was being redesigned given that it orginally atarted in 1980's.
Can you do a video About the de zeven provinciën class frigate
This is why you shouldn't order your submarine from Wish.
You hit on the AC generator going through a rectifier pretty hard. It's how I would do things with modern power electronics. The generator is simpler, because it doesn't have a commutator or complex rotor wiring, you can apply field current to the rotor though a set of slip rings. That's a significant amount of complexity gone. That's balanced by needing a rectifier, but the modern rectifier units I've used converts 480 VAC to 385VDC in a sealed unit at greater than 98% efficiency with low harmonics and high power factor. Now that we're got IGBTs in common use for two decades and greater use of wide bandgap GaN and Silicon Carbide devices, I'd go for as simple of a generator as possible and run as much as I could in electronic modules.
That having been said, this world take some time to get stood up, and I can't think of any Russian power supply design houses that would have experience in this dirt of power conversation off the top of my head.
@SubBrief What color Lada you driving?
The only color it comes in comrade, haha.
Janes reported in April of this year that the St Petersburg was going to be scrapped due to cost over runs for modernisation
you are going to be seeing a lot of "cost overruns" in the next 10 years or so, even more so than usual - this is a symptom of biting sanctions.
@alberto148 cringe
@@alberto148 doubt it, Russia in top 10 gdp
Soviet Union and modern Russia does have a legitimate need for SSK (dis elec) boats. Not just as a cost measure. They operate in shallow water as well as open deep blue water. Baltic, Black Sea, , Yellow Sea, and Russia's Pacific littorals.Small SSKs are more optimal for shallow waters. Being inherently quiter when running on battery alone, they can lie in wait and ambush . SSK are very difficult for ASW to find.
Lol. "Why, our new "Hunleiski," is pretty good, no? Now get on the crank!"
Shouldn't a smaller sub technically be faster and more stealthy than a larger sub if its a "hunter-killer"? Unless of course they are supposed to be reconnaisance tools (but submersibal drones would probably be a more efficient and cost effective solution for that kind of thing).
More stealthy, yes. Faster, no.
Deisel electric subs are generally stealthier than nuclear subs because in a deisel electric, you can reduce moving parts practically down to JUST the electric motor and screw. In a nuclear sub, you have the electric motor, screw, and a myriad of pumps, valves, and conrtrol rods for the nuclear power plant. It makes nuclear subs inherently louder, and requires a lot more effort and technology to make "stealthy" enough to be comparable to deisel electric.
However, nuclear subs are generally inherently faster than deisel electric subs. This is because moving a vehicle through the water requires exponentially more power (in this case, all electrical power for both) for every knot of speed you push it to.
A 30+ knot design is probably feasible for both deisel electric and nuclear subs... However, a deisel electric sub would likely drain its batteries pretty quickly if it had to be pushed to that speed. By contrast... Nuclear submarines get their electrical power from the fission of nuclear fuel... Which is a power source that lasts literally years even if you demand flank speed all day long. Unlike deisel electric subs, nuclear subs can sprint to a higher speed, and do it all day long, just because they have a practically infinite power source (at least, infinite as far as any individual engagement is concerned).
That is why nuclear subs tend to be faster than deisel electrics.
@@hatman4818 so the Russians and others are onto something with nuclear powered autonomous submersible drones?
Surely we must have similar programs?
Does it have the same Lada Niva 4 cylinder 1.6 liter engine
I would guess they used AC because it will s far more easier, cheaper and efficient to go from AC to DC than DC to AC. ~95% vs ~70% and four diodes vs mosfet transistor array.
I could never understand how a sub could be faster underwater than on the surface. Can you explain this please?
Hey the USS Michigan what’s the pod on the back ? It’s not a mini sub?
It's called a 'dry dock shelter' (DDS). can store all sorts of things.
@@SubBrief hmmmm that boat must be up to some top secret stuff
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ladas are given to a Russian private navy. You would want a group like that to have something that works well enough to cause trouble but not better than what you have in the case they go rogue.
Wut? We have a private navy? That doesn’t sound good…
Wagner Marine Corps lol
If the hatch is open its a skip?
I never knew submarines used an anchor!!
Thanks a Lada!
You're welcome 😊
In early 2024 the first "real" Lada-class sub named Kronstadt finally entered service
the lada reminds me of the famous Zumwalt-class destroyer D
Lol, I had to check the date real quick to make sure it's not april 1st. Sub named 'Lada'. Can't make this stuff up.
Gotta love the "Lada" name lmao Hope it shares nothing with it's 4 wheeled counterpart xD
Just think,It could be an Yugo with a rear defrost.Heard its cold in Russia.
"it's gonna be great!"
Nice video and walk-through of the submarine. However the main question is how quiet is it? I used to hunt kilos back in the 80s and never had a problem finding them. I believe the war with Ukraine is going to sit back submarine design and production at least 10 years if not more. There will be no money spent on new submarines or upgrades.😊
I'm surprised that finding Kilos was pretty easy. Kudos to the crews since Diesels are pretty quiet.
It would be interesting to see of any NATO vessel logged a Lada detection.
I agree with a technology set back on subs.
The entire Russian military will take at least 10 years to rebuild. Come to think of it, all nations contributing to Ukraine have to rebuild the stockpile. Although our R&D isn't affected
You won't need to listen for this submarine. If you ever have to destroy it you just launch cruise missiles at its slip in port.
have earned a Kilo in 1984 Societ COld waters... GREAT SUB and this si hilarious
Everyone complains about Ladas, but I'm willing to bet they're top 3 passenger cars by volume produced.
It looks like it's designed by a committee (or a commissariat really) which it might not be surprising for the soviet era .... For those of aviation background it's a "camel" (a known aviation meme : a camel is a horse designed by a committee... )
The Russian LCS project.
Very similar failed process, but failed for different reasons.
I'm just starting this video and I'm sure this submarine will be as stronk as its namesake...
They could have built several Yasen class boats in the meantime but they chose not to
Lada; is intended to be a 'drone sub' aka unmanned but totally under-control as UAV's
This is no longer a secret. Here it is worth saying that the Russians are experimenting with the engine on this project. So far it's a power issue, but they don't want to go back to the traditional engines that are used all over the world (they consider it an outdated technology, although reliable), but want to refine this new experimental engine. Through hardship to the stars. Go ahead.
I was going to make the Zhiguli joke, but it seems literally the entirely population of Earth has beat me to it.