One of the most enjoyable aspects of cycling is answering questions from my clients . I love to help them and ask them to bring in their bicycles every six months for maintenance or as required . I give out gifts to my clients as well .
Proceedure mask used during covid, can be repurposed to filter 1st wash, & allow 2nd use for wet lube removal. Adding a magnet while the fluid sits will trap metal shaving & improve 2nd use extraction. Recommend cleaner washes be moved forward while adding neat final rinse.
11:30 about hanging the chain to dry after boiling water cleaning, if you use a cheap deore, 105 chain or equivalent, it may oxidize after this process is repeated over time. I do recomend drying with a hair dryer after the boiling water cleaning.
Thanks Jeff! And yes if must say for a set up like ZFC, being able to recycle back so much of the solvent and alcohol needed for prep saves ZFC, and therefore customer - a lot of money on pre prep chains. WIthout it, i would have so many litres per week to need to dispose, and there is a big time and cost factor to do that, as well as greatly increased cost of needing to buy so much new solvent & alcohol. Even without solar & battery covering energy needs, it would save a ton when one is prepping 70 to 100 chains per week. I do not think anyone else is doing this for a variety of reasons, but for ZFC it is a simple process that saves so much waste, time and $$ indeed, enabling the most competitive price on highest level pre prepped chains in the world i believe.
Hi Adam, I just had a thought - have you considered trying to speed up the testing process by maintaining the same chain tension, but driving the machine at a higher speed? So instead of 250W @ 90RPM, you have, for example, 300W @ 108RPM, so 20% increased speed and power which should make for the same chain tension. It might be a neat project to run 2 machines side by side, one at 250W/90RPM, and the other at 300W/108RPM, and see if the results remain consistent across several popular lubes. Of course, this will eat into your required testing time, but if it does turn out that you can run the machine faster with the same comparative results, it could help save a lot of time in the long run!
Hi wilson! No that wouldnt help - the main bottleneck by far is not the run time of the intervals, it is how fast i can get to running the next interval. So when an interval stops, do i have time to start next with contamination / check measure and re start or re lube, re start, add contamination etc. May sound small, but - interventions happen A LOT during a test, and then multiply by 3 test machines. Combined with many lubricants needing an 8hr set time after application - it is the set times and my ability to get machines going again that is the main issue. Ie if i have days of orders a backed up in inbox, and lodgement is just 3hrs away, i am going HARD on processing orders, as well as frequently running back to ultrasonics, wax pots and re packaging chains to fulfill orders, there is often an entire block of a day i just cannot spare a minute to get back to next intervention to get test moving again - x 3. Shaving half an hour or an hour off intervals wont do anything much, and although in theory such a change should not affect result - i cant risk it. Lastly, 250w for long run times i think is about the limit for what the neo;'s can handle, they still get very hot, as in you cannot hold fingers on the silver metal on NDS hot. 300w could see significant NEO lifespan reduction.
Thanks, Adam. I really appreciate this content. I would love to see a video about your own bikes. I've seen a few in your videos and it it would be great to know what you choose for your personal drivetrains and what measures that you've taken to make your bikes as low friction as possible. Thanks as always.
thanks catmando (sorry delay reply struggling to get a spot to check vid comments!) - and yeah maybe i cld do one on that one day for fun, most of my bikes are actually pretty old, but still running like the day i bought them (well, better - lower friction! :)) - Quite a few choices are for aesthetic reasons as there is just some cool stuff out there, and too a degree some OEM stuff is just a bit boring vs adding some groovy touches to ones steeds, and i like to support some of the really good aftermarket companies that make cool stuff. If possible they may have a slight performance upgrade, some its a wash, they just add something groovy. But bearing options etc will be fun to cover as well as some good upgrades there (ie thread together housing vs press in bb30 etc)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Haha. Sounds like you like to have fun with your setup. And why not? I think my favorite thing that I can see is your Cane Creek eeWings crankset. Anyway, I'm sure we'd all like to know what products you use and how you prep your drivetrain. Hopefully you can do that sometime. Be well!
I have a question for wiping excess wax off chain with using Effetto Mariposa Flower Power. In your "How-to-apply-Wax-or-Wet-Drip-lubricants-v2" you write in the application part "THOROUGHLY wipe excess lubricant from outside of the chain with an absorbent cloth (ie microfiber)" and "Ensure wipe excess lubricant from outside of the chain each ride (or at least before the next re-lube)". Can you elaborate on these two points? For me it is not really clear what you mean by "outside" and what "thoroughly wipe" is looking like without wiping all the wax off that I just applied.
Adam, i've been using wax with PTFE and MoS2 for a while now (3 yrs?) on MTB and road bikes (mostly with YBN and SRAM XX1 12s chains) and i really love it. Anyhow i noticed there is sometimes a problem with it - namely with wet/snowy conditions and temperatures around 0 deg (or very cold - e.g. -10C) - some links/rolers are getting a bit stuck so the chain is not flexing easily enough and thus skipping teeth. Have you seen this kind of behaviour?
is this a DIY blend? if it is it is likely a problem with the base wax and what is that. I have never heard of this to date occuring with msw or hot melt, and a plenty enough of those products are sold to people who live though very cold winters. If it is DIY - the only further help i can offer is to refer to the DIY wax section in wax FAQ guide - DIY wax issues have resulted in me receiving about 4.6billion enquires from around the world in the last 5 years, it is just a black hole, i have to draw a line now on not sinking more time into the never ever ever ever ever ending issues / enquiries that stem from DIY waxing
HI Daisy! Ha once upon a time i did with some friends, now we just play for fun - where i live we are lucky enough to have been able to make a fun course just out the back - we try to have a monthly movie night catch up starting with a couple hours racing + beer, then dinner and movie in the cinema. Grand times. I find building a new car / fixing / ,maintaining the cars quite relaxing whilst watching cycling. There is a simple pleasure in taking something thats broken and making it perfect again. MIP tools rock, so do the titanium arrow max black golden tools. A pleasure to grab in thy fingers every time! I may race again one day if i ever get time..... that is on the to do list in semi retirement :)
11:13 Is it ok to go straight from a hot water rinse into the wax? I was glad to hear this doesn’t seem to be a problem. That makes the system seem a lot easier to me on paper. My first concern was for the chain-will all the water get displaced by wax? My next concern was for the longevity of the wax, but based on what you said, it sounds like getting a little water in the wax doesn’t negatively affect the wax-so that’s good!
ah yes - good timing - i may have to re visit that. Mspeedwax have done some specific testing on this and they have found that water can accumulate in the wax, and so their official recommendation is to dry. I will try to re test more myself, when i have done it (and other local racers doing post muddy cx etc) - we see a lot of bubbles coming up in the wax and bursting - as the wax is always 70 to 90dg depending on pot and fill level, that is at a temp that water definitely wants to evaporate, we dont have bubbles when if we dont put a wet chain in - it makes sense the bubbles are water evaporating, and when i decant out my pot 1 wax that saw a bunch of we chains, there was no water. Mspeedwax however advised they have found water accumulating in bottom of the wax. I think it may be down in some part to frequency and wax temp. Ie someone doing occasionally as only ride occasionally in the wet, i dont think will have an issue. Someone who rides all the time in the wet and is putting a wet chain into wax near every re wax - maybe over time they may have not great re waxes. And what temp does their wax pot get to, 70, 80, 90? this may impact if water is evaporating out easily, partially, poorly. I am going to need to re visit this questions in greater detail, but officially now the word from msw is that you should dry the chain if you can, especially if it is going to be frequent. Sorry for a different answer on clarification vs what is in the video, but this one is proving a tad more fun than expected.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for taking the time to follow up. I will use the hair dryer (or at least let it air dry for a while) before the rewax going forward. Thanks!
Hey Adam, Your comments on the immersive drip bath (super secret) have me intrigued and have of course lead me to further questions/ clarification. As I am going travelling with my bike for months on end this year I unfortunately can’t be hot melt waxing and was going to use the super secret drip (on top of a freshly waxed chain) 1: Am I good just to pour my super secret drip into a jar and that will do the job? (I seem to remember you saying you can’t do this with Ceramic Speed UFO as it dries too quick). 2: are there any indicators such as colour for when to stop immersive dipping in the drip wax? + would it be worth wiping the chain or a quick boiling water bath to remove the surface dirt. I would also quite like to make a video on it as a how to travel with a waxed chain guide. Thank you for all of your hard work. It helps a lot!
Ah that sounds like an exciting trip!. Yes correct ufo dries out - super secret in the tub should indeed be exactly the same as the bottle , i cannot imagine they would havea different formula for the tub - so you should have no drying out issues. If you are riding in dusty / wet conditions - then wiping chain if dusty prior to putting in tub, or boiling water flush rinse if possible post wet ride and blow dry with hair dryer - this will lessen the contamination you bring in. The tub is not going to finish the trip with lubricant as amazing as when it started, however overall it is going to be a great thing for your chain as every re lube is flushing chain - and you are effectively diluting the contamination across hundreds of ml of lubricant, vs the contamination building up in only a few ml on your chain. The ratio of contamination vs lubrication running in your chain is simply going to be vastly lower, and this is going to be very good. Note re ss drip - it does like a good set time - overnight minimum. Treatment lifespan is not super long - it should have no trouble on dry days, but it will struggle on long wet days so be prepared to top up if wet - possibly multiple times. It would not be a top option at all for long wet days - but if only using that option - thats ok as it will rock on dry days - be prepared for interventions on wet days.
Thank you! I posted this on an earlier video, but I noticed a lot of your bikes have oversize jockey wheels. Have you ever tested that on the dyno? I have a feeling they don't move the need on efficiency, but I do wonder if they affect waxing intervals. cheers!
Hi jonathan very sorry for delay reply, project week + catching up post project week - its been a bit mega! They have some sound physics, math and testing by mfg (take with salt) to show they do help drivetrain efficiency by a little. You would never notice. 99% of jockey wheel upgrades are for pimping purposes only - personally i just love adding little touches to my bikes, because they are wonderful machines to me, and OEM pulleys are just too boring. There is an extremely poor economic case to be made for OSPW, or upgrading pulleys in general if you OEM are running smooth and light - it is just fun if one has spare budget. Mfg claim testing has ospw at say 2w savings - it would likely be less than that, and that would be for a slowish chain. As all the savings are from chain, if you are running a low friction chain that is say half the losses of typical add meh wet lube & ride cyclist, then you can expect savings to be halved, as there is less chain friction to save. So the bang for buck makes no economic senses except for pro riders who dont pay for it, for us, it is for fun.
Hi Adam, I am planning on doing some bike touring and it would not be possible to take a slow cooker with me as it is too bulky and requires an electric hookup which I won't have access to. Do you think I could use a camping stove to heat up the wax instead? Cheers
hi gabriel sorry delay reply - nah just pack a wax compatible drip lube like silca ss drip, ufo drip, tru tension tungsten all weather, and re wax when you get home! you dont need to clean chain to re wax over those lubricants. Yeehaa. super easy.
What do you think about molybdenum or tungsten disulfide in a powder form to use as an additive instead of Teflon powder since tungsten disulfide has even more lubricity than Teflon because the COF of it is 0.03 instead of Teflon’s 0.04, and is now known as the most lubricating thing known to man.
Yes ditch teflom, MSw have, hot melt never had it. PTFE and moly much cheaper which is why previously so common, but due to both performance and negativity re toxic production of PTFE, the move by the good mfg has been to tungsten disulfide.
Thank you for great information and proper analysis. I am taking your advice and trying out immersive waxing (silca) for road and general use, but am looking for more info on wet CX use (NW Europe here). The worry is that a race will wear off the wax, the bike will be basic cleaned before leaving the race venue, but could easily have rusted before getting home and having time to clean/rewax chain properly Would a wax last a 1hr 10 mile very muddy race or do I need to drip wax to protect the chain before rewaxing ?
Hi Lloyd - yep great questions - firstly re rusting, chains wont rust that quickly unless you have a super long trip home! And if you do, after wash down, wipe chain dry, then wrap in a dry microfibre cloth, that will protect it for good stretch, and then when home boiling water flush rinses, dry, re wax. Re will it last - an hour long wet muddy cx is a stretch - but honestly, it is a stretch for ANY lubricant. With waxing vs other (another wax drip lube wont really fair any better vs immersive msw / hot melt) - you have to weight up that it will remain low friction in harsh conditions until such time as it is basically abraded off, then a very large jump in friction to circa 15 to 20w. Vs say a long lasting wet lubricant, that may be able to stay around 10 / 12w - but it is likely to start increasing towards that mark from the first pedal stroke. This is one reason why you see full mudder world cx races they swap bikes every lap, aside from washing a kg of mud weight off bike, they douse more lube on. A key tip is to do your practice laps on training chain, then put on race chain for race so it is starting fresh vs starting having seen 2 or 3 laps of harsh conditions. A key consideration is post race. Even though for wax chain the longer harsher conditions cx races will stretch treatment lifespan, the majority of the event is going to be low friction, and it is going to be very easy to re reset post event. If you use a long lasting wet lubricant - that will literally be litres of solvent to properly flush clean. IF it was a key priority event that was going to be very harsh conditions - a common trick is to apply grease to outside of chain. This will quickly gather a lot of contamination, and you will have higher viscous friction / stiction - but the grease helps prevent water and contamination having a free run right through the chain / tougher job for contamination to get from the outside of the chain to inside, and it is abrasive contamination inside chain that does all the wear and the huge majority of friction damage. it is messy, and it is a lot of work post even to clean drivetrain and chain - but it gives a chain the best chance to remain somewhat effectively lubricated for a longer wet muddy cx event.
Hello Adam, What's your latest thoughts for waxing and chain selection for a 7 speed electric bike. I have been using food grade paraffin wax for about 5 years with excellent results, not interested in watts saved just a clean drive chain and a "significant" reduction in drive train wear which is the case now, about 5000km and little measurable wear on the Shimano chain checker. Is it worth the considerable increase in cost to change to a commercial wax formula and if the improvement is significant, what would you suggest? Thanks.
Hi David you mighty fine intrepid cyclist! Apologies for delay - last two weeks have been mega indeed! I have a big section on DIY waxing in FAQ guide, as it mostly goes very averagely to very poorly - but not always. If what you are doing is working for you, and at lower cost - then you have no need to change. For 99% though, they always see big benefits changing to something like msw / hot melt that have just so much genuine R&D and investment - the base wax isnt just food grade paraffin, its pretty high tech blend of waxes, and there base wax kills anything diy dead. A bag lasts circa 10,000km - but you have to do your own cost / benefit calcs. Odds are extremely high it will deliver measurably lower wear and longer treatment lifespan, but if you are able to stay on top of waxing with home wax and its working - enjoy. Chain selection, more tricky for e-bike. They ybn sla 8spd is last non budget normal 8spd chain, others from main brands are very cheap, no wear protection, and so wear quickly on non e bikes let alone e bikes, but the ybn is not e bike rate. The best 8spd e bike chain (8 and 7spd are interchangeable) is srams ebike specific chain for their 8spd e bike specific drivetrain - sorry i forget the model number and im short on google time - it has been very, very hard to find though - but if you can, that chain is very durable - no other 8spd will last as long as that one and be ebike rate.
Ha thanks james - i might have to do one in future when a) my gold ingrid cranks for aspero are installed, b) when i have the new super caliber properly built up (almost) c) when the unno horn frame arrives and is built and d) when the bastion arrives. It may seem like ive gone a bit nuts but, the old trek warhorse getting a tad old & slow vs new kids on the block for xc racing, hence the super caliber, and the unno horn for xc marathon and the bastion are both very very very very long term relationship plans for racing for the next hopefully 2 to 3 decades (i am planning ahead - i managed to get clearance for an xcm bike upgrade and forever road bike for my 50th in a couple of years, but have started the ordering and building now). In short, in a bit the stable will look AMAZING - but that will be the new bike spend done for a super long time i think... No plans at all to upgrade the cx / gravel bike, road training bike, TT bike. Im having a good time. I just need to ride more!! :)
on the last question, you and Josh from Silica differ in that he suggests letting the wax bath cool to just start to form a skin and then pull. he states more wax inside the chain....im not sure, and many folks are not sure! I know there's more on the outside for sure....haha
Hi! I do not recommend that path at all, the pressures inside the chain are too high, so trying to "lock more wax" inside, all you will have is more excess pressed outside during initial 10 mins riding, and also a lot more mess coming of chain on install and initial pedals. It is possible it gives you a very small overall treatment lifespan increase, but it would be very small indeed, and especially in day to day re waxing, in no way worth the extra time hassle and mess of re waxing that way - really especially once full treatment break in and polish of wax is done about 20 to 30 mins in - you will have the same thickness of a thin wax coating on chain if you had removed from pot and hung on hot summers day, as you would if you let wax cool and removed and put chain somewhere cold to set as fast as possible - pressures under load are often in the thousands of PSI - only a thin coating can remain, re rest is excess that will be pressed out.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for that answer! I will follow your guidance as it makes mechanical sense! I know you are the expert so I trust your massive amount of experience!.I'll spread the word as well. thanks again for your time and reply!
Can I confirm, the concept here is Capillary Effect, where surface tension keeps a fluid in a small gap. Pulling the chain out at high temperature allows more wax to run off the outside of the chain, and it runs out of the big holes where the sprocket teeth would knock it out anyway. But it stays as a surface coating and in the small bearing gaps inside the chain, where you want it. Perfect. I find that a quick end-to-end brush with a chain U-brush removes most of the excess wax, and the chain rides perfectly and cleanly after about 15 minutes of riding.
Hi Johnny sorry delay been way behind! I wouldnt, it is just cosmetic. It takes vastly longer for anything bad to happen inside chain as air exposure is much less. If i had to though, it would be a small brass brush from hardware store. But just re-wax soon after wet rides, or wipe and apply TTAW / Silca SS Drip / Or ufo drip, and avoid any oxidation for looks purposes
If waxing multiple chains at a time, with the intent to using multiple chains, what's the best way to store the unused waxed chain(s)? I guess my specific question would be when traveling. If I'm going to bring an extra chain in my luggage, can it just be tossed in a Ziploc bag, or is there a better way to store/transport it?
Hey aarons - a fresh waxed chain is well protected so from an environment perspective - it itself doesnt need protecting. However post use on cycling trip, the wax will be abraded off outside of rollers, rollers can easily oxidize as are high carbon steel for hardness - so you will want to either a) wrap in microfiber cloth or b) add a quick coating of compatible wax drip lube (ss drip, ufo drip, tru tension tungsten all weather) and then wrap that in a microfiber cloth for ultimate protection. If it has been a wet ride you will want to dry, and coat with wax lube before storing if possible. Wet ride and just leaving rollers un lubed and exposed to air, with rust catalyst minerals on from wet ride - the rollers will rust over coming day / days. Never store chain in plastic bag. Plastic bags are like moisture humidifiers and so are a rust catalysts. A factory grease chain wrapped in plastic is nothing like you popping a ridden chain in a ziploc or plastic bag - the latter is definitely a do not do. Cloth wrap will be all groovy post dry riding, re lube and cloth wrap post wet ride if storing.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 alright cool. I’ve got a 250+ mile ride coming up soon over 3 days and planned on bringing a second waxed chain to swap out due to the length. Just trying to figure out how to pack it. Appreciate the advice.
I cleaned the factory chain with motorex chain decgreaser by spraying it heavily and wiping with a microfiber. Then applied UFO drip. Should I have used a spirits bath for UFO drip? I m planning on making an immersive bath setup where I ultrasonically clean the chain in an hot water to remove old wax and contamination before hot melt rewaxing. In between I would apply some UFO drip to top off when I don't have much time. Can you recommend this method to not contaminate the wax? Shall I use hot water for ultrasound or some alcohol or spirit? Thanks for your precious advice.
Hi Pirmin! I am not certain if that degreaser would pose a problem, however best practice for most wax lubricants especially is to ensure there is no film left from cleaning. The wax really wants to bond to clean and clear chain metal - the easier we make that - the better the lubricant can do that. It is definitely not as tricky as this analogy but think if you were going to need to paint that surface - would paint adhere all good to the plates post degreaser or would it really have trouble bonding. Vs if the clean was finished with alcohol round. Taking away the possibility of the lubricant needing to fight it was through a film to try to bond to chain metal is best practice. Re your ultrasonic plan - thats great if it is your dedicated race chain and you have a dedicated race wax pot and you want everything mint, and every fraction of a watt speed. For your training chain, i really discourage such regimes. There is so little contamination getting in in dry riding (especially if it road) as its a solid wax. You will spend a lot of time and electricity for no tangible benefit you could track. Just re wax, and change to fresh wax every approx 30 re waxes which is about 10,000km or 1 year for most cyclists. It is just so easy and so low wear to do this way, cleaning every time before re wax for training chains is really not an effective use of time / any cleaning product. At all. In fact, over the years of zfc - if i have had in all this time say 50 reported cases of premature wear for a chain on waxing - the 49 of them have been cleaning before every re wax. The problem seems to be that drying of chain before re waxing gets lazy, and re waxing a chain that is still wet inside is not the best. Save any such cleaning for post wet riding where it is actually going to help vs a lot of hassle for really a false economy benefit - ie you will spend more on electricity than you will get back in chain longevity or more rewaxes from wax in pot before change. When it is done only when it should be done - then people are more likely to properly dry chain before re waxing vs getting slack on that if doing every time. If you are going to ultrasonic clean the wax chain before re waxing (race chains only, post wet rides) - then no alcohol wont do a lot - not many solvents work on wax. Boiling water flush baths first to melt off the bulk of contaminated wax, finish with either a proper ultrasonic solution that will work on wax - but you will need to run ultrasonic at 65dg c so need a heated ultrasonic - dont forget to degas etc - refer to ultrasonic & race chain guide on website - or- easier, is use UFO clean that will work on wax and doesnt require heated ultrasonic. Boiling water flush clean post ultrasonic round until water goes from milky white to clear. UFO clean also solves issue of possible flammable vapours etc that can be concern for some solvents. Properly dry with hair dryer or heat gun - these get chain nice and hot and evap water out from deep inside vs cold air from compressor or similar - and re wax.
Hey Adam, i have used wet lubes for ages and prepping for my first Ironman made me cleaning my bikes and thinking about reducing friction. Your channel is so good you brought me to forget about wet lubes and move to wax based ones. Cause I am used to drip and have no space I have decided to go with ufo v2 and Graphen lube. I have prepped my chains and applied it. I have watched nearly every video but just want to make sure - you suggest to clean the chain by pouring boiled water over it - got that.but I.e. for Graphen lube - do I have to do the full immersive wax with the polybag or is it enough to drip it onto the chain? (Absolut black writes it is ok to wipe contamination down after a wet ride and drip a new layer onto the chain …). With ufo there is no polybag method so I would consider to put on the boiler and reapply by dripping ufo on the chain, right? Last question - turbo trainer. I thought about using wet lube for my turbo because I am afraid of ruining my bed room (where the turbo lives) with wax everywhere. Is there a trick to reduce the spill? Would you choose Graphen over ufo or the other way around (or even wet lube) Thank you so much for your great content and please keep on going Best regards from Germany
Hi Paoloest apologies for delay reply i struggle to find a spot to go back and check vids - if you ever need an answer timely zing me an email on info@zerofrictioncycling.com.au - but great to ask here too so all can see. RE the cleaning - boiling water does a good flush clean for many of the most highly refined wax base lubes such as ufo / graphen, but note it is not a perfect clean. It is also something that you should only do post proper wet rides, their dry contamination resistance is high enough that such a cleaning maintenance is rarely needed (maybe every circa 3000km road). UFO v2 you do not need to apply immersive (it is best not to - you will use up the entire bottle - it will dry up after that amount of exposure to air), for AB graphen you would definitely want to do the immersive application to be safe. Note you get maybe 4, usually 3 - immersive applications from a bottle, so each one costs you about $60 to do, so only do when you absolutely must for graphen lube. If you need to do a proper contamination reset you should - boiling water baths, dry, into a container of ufo clean, soak 15mins, remove, flush with boiling water until water clear - dry - re lube. UFO clean not cheap but you can clean many many chains doing the above, it is super concentrated and can soak up a lot of product indeed before need to change (ie a bottle would do at least 30 cleans of above). For graphen lube you must use polybag or better is a 500ml screwtop container - it must be immersive, drip on has significant initial penetration issues - they wouldnt advise customers (and scaring off many) to have to do immersive if it didnt absolutely need to be done (and it does, that was checked and checked as part of testing for them, and verified with further testing on their end as well as mine). For turbo - to start i wouldnt choose graphen for anything other that a very very long event that would exceed treatment lifespan of other options. It is just far too expensive. Why not use something that is also amazing (like ufo drip) and just re apply more frequently and save a huge amount on lubricant. For ergo, the top couple of wet lubricants can be a great option as they are super long lasting (ie synergetic, rex black diamond) - many can just go months / year on a single treatment on ergo when a treatment will likely last 800 or 1000km +, and they are very very low wear, and contamination indoors is really not an issue - wet lubes i really only caution against for offroad riding, the top wet lubes still brilliant option for road riders / ergo. However if ergo is being shared by bike also running wax lube chain, stay with wax lube like ufo so that the wax chain is not contaminated by a wet lube. I am an avid waxer myself, but if i had a dedicated ergo bike, due to the flakes, i would use synergetic or BD on a dedicated ergo bike to save cleaning hassle and the convenience of barely every needing to re lube.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 WOuld Silca SS drip work well on the trainer if I have a bike that has to go on and off the trainer during fall and spring (I would be changing the chain for outdoor or indoor)? Or would Synergetic be good but I'd have to get the pulley wheels and chainrings cleaned up a bit before putting waxed chain on the bike before going outdoor?
@@olivierhebert9664 yes for sure, squirt is a perfectly good option and you can swap on an immersive wax chain without worrying about contamination. If you run a wet lubricant you would absolutely want to wipe all bits down before putting wax chain on. Many find squirt hand for indoor as cleaning post wet rides / dust ride periodic maintenance not really an issue - squirt is a bit harder work maintenance wise vs the very refined lubes like ss drip / ufo - but for indoor it is not really a problem, and its cheap and pretty long lasting per treatment so can be an easy option.
Officially 5, most dont keep an exact count and go maybe 7 or 8, i would not go longer than 10 to be super safe. No reported failures, but why risk it when a pack of links doesnt cost much and lasts about 15,000km of waxing. Risk / reward ratio!
To wax chains or to clean chains for waxing? A slow cooker and a good swishing is best in 99.9999% of cases - ultrasonic for those who know how to ultrasonic in wax for wax race chains, but you need the right ultrasonic, and most do not.... if not enough power the friction modifiers simply settle to the bottom of the wax for a relatively poor waxing vs just swishing in a pot
not really. I mean you can, but the wax lubricant will likely have a very tough time bonding as heavy film of stuff will be left behind. Wax lubricants definitely work best when they can bond to clean clear chain metal, so proper clean and prep is very important for the right outcome. A poor clean will lead to poor treatment lifespan of the wax application, and also likely wax gunking up. Refer to chain prep guide on zfc website (instructions tab) - that will take you through best prep for on or off bike chain prep -it is easy just use the right stuff the right way and yeehaa.
@@ionuttv5874 yes correct - head to here for on or off bike prep for new or used chains. If stepping into this the first time it may seem like a lot, but trust me it really is easy, once you have done your first one properly, you are off and running then for the rest of your life enabling you to properly prep and run top lubricant options. It is a great basic skill for cyclists to learn, just like learning to fix a flat; zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Chain-prep-Guide-Concise-v2.pdf
Is this guy taking money from Silca and other overpriced stuff? Just to know... You say that sooo many people are having problems, using crap wax but let's be real, quality paraffin wax is available everywhere and anyone who is willing to pay 40 bucks for 500gr of "branded chain wax" has access to a good quality paraffine for 1/10 of the price. If you look at Oz Cycle (yeah i know, you are not a fan of this guy who is going the opposite way of what you are trying to do), he is even using the cheapest one from Ebay and still having amazing results with it. Mixing it with ptfe, ws2 or MoS2 really give great results, similar to the best ones out there but for a lot cheaper. I don't have any problem with you promoting these brands if they make good products, and some of them do. The problem i have is you giving the alternative way a bad rep when almost everyone that is trying it is happy with it and having really good results. I don't know who all these people having problem around the world and begging for your help are, but sounds a lot overplayed. You try so hard to dismiss the diy way of waxing and you want to reserve this for these brands you are working with, you can argue all you want but that's what you are doing at the end of the day. I know there's a lot of money to be made in this game, but if you want to call yourself some kind of independant testing guy, you should test many combinaisons and not just the ones you can sell.
are you just adding this as a comment to my vids? as per a previous reply - why? there are hundreds of wax drip lubricants on the market - testing a lubricant takes a lot of time resources with most tests taking 6 to 8 weeks or more - there must be a compelling case to test. I am open to adding lubricant to the long list for testing and have tested lubricants often requested to be testing, but a solid case has to be made to test. For all i know you simply work there.... ?
I'm pretty sure you mentioned in one video that Squirt is not compatible as a top off on a immersive waxed chain, but UFO and Super Secret is fine. Why is that?
Hey there - you can use products like squirt, smoove and grax - and they will be ok - with some caveats. Basically they use a different wax base - we believe they use slack wax or something very similar. this is a more oil wax - which is why they can have greater treatment longevity vs the very refined drip waxes like ss drip, ufo, tru tension etc. Being more oily / less refined paraffin base - they are not as compatible to use with immersive waxing. However, if one say applies a treatment of squirt / smoove/ grax - runs that treatment until chain is starting to sound / feel a bit dry- a rewax over that goes fine - and many do this for cycling holiday etc to get through holiday until back to wax pot. It doesnt go as well if one has mutliple treatments applied and starting to get some build up. You are trying to wax over something that will not just melt off in the wax pot, and the wax will have some trouble trying to bond to chain metal for an immersive wax coating that will behave as normal. hope that helps!
One of the most enjoyable aspects of cycling is answering questions from my clients . I love to help them and ask them to bring in their bicycles every six months for maintenance or as required . I give out gifts to my clients as well .
Most excellent. From all the recent comments it appears there is not one thing you are not 11 out of 10 good at Robert. yeehaa.
LOVE the detail! Dont stop!
Proceedure mask used during covid, can be repurposed to filter 1st wash, & allow 2nd use for wet lube removal. Adding a magnet while the fluid sits will trap metal shaving & improve 2nd use extraction. Recommend cleaner washes be moved forward while adding neat final rinse.
11:30 about hanging the chain to dry after boiling water cleaning, if you use a cheap deore, 105 chain or equivalent, it may oxidize after this process is repeated over time. I do recomend drying with a hair dryer after the boiling water cleaning.
Thanks Jorge i do too, but i may need to stress that point more strongly as the best way indeed.
Man that solvent recycling setup is amazing. You answered all the questions I had about it. I think if I had solar as well, I'd give it a go.
Thanks Jeff! And yes if must say for a set up like ZFC, being able to recycle back so much of the solvent and alcohol needed for prep saves ZFC, and therefore customer - a lot of money on pre prep chains. WIthout it, i would have so many litres per week to need to dispose, and there is a big time and cost factor to do that, as well as greatly increased cost of needing to buy so much new solvent & alcohol. Even without solar & battery covering energy needs, it would save a ton when one is prepping 70 to 100 chains per week. I do not think anyone else is doing this for a variety of reasons, but for ZFC it is a simple process that saves so much waste, time and $$ indeed, enabling the most competitive price on highest level pre prepped chains in the world i believe.
Thanks for sharing. An old guy watching that rides a city E bike ( 10 speed) by the way. 👍🏼
Thanks for answering :-) ... nice Intro btw
Hi Adam, I just had a thought - have you considered trying to speed up the testing process by maintaining the same chain tension, but driving the machine at a higher speed? So instead of 250W @ 90RPM, you have, for example, 300W @ 108RPM, so 20% increased speed and power which should make for the same chain tension. It might be a neat project to run 2 machines side by side, one at 250W/90RPM, and the other at 300W/108RPM, and see if the results remain consistent across several popular lubes. Of course, this will eat into your required testing time, but if it does turn out that you can run the machine faster with the same comparative results, it could help save a lot of time in the long run!
Hi wilson! No that wouldnt help - the main bottleneck by far is not the run time of the intervals, it is how fast i can get to running the next interval. So when an interval stops, do i have time to start next with contamination / check measure and re start or re lube, re start, add contamination etc. May sound small, but - interventions happen A LOT during a test, and then multiply by 3 test machines. Combined with many lubricants needing an 8hr set time after application - it is the set times and my ability to get machines going again that is the main issue. Ie if i have days of orders a backed up in inbox, and lodgement is just 3hrs away, i am going HARD on processing orders, as well as frequently running back to ultrasonics, wax pots and re packaging chains to fulfill orders, there is often an entire block of a day i just cannot spare a minute to get back to next intervention to get test moving again - x 3. Shaving half an hour or an hour off intervals wont do anything much, and although in theory such a change should not affect result - i cant risk it. Lastly, 250w for long run times i think is about the limit for what the neo;'s can handle, they still get very hot, as in you cannot hold fingers on the silver metal on NDS hot. 300w could see significant NEO lifespan reduction.
Thanks, Adam. I really appreciate this content. I would love to see a video about your own bikes. I've seen a few in your videos and it it would be great to know what you choose for your personal drivetrains and what measures that you've taken to make your bikes as low friction as possible. Thanks as always.
thanks catmando (sorry delay reply struggling to get a spot to check vid comments!) - and yeah maybe i cld do one on that one day for fun, most of my bikes are actually pretty old, but still running like the day i bought them (well, better - lower friction! :)) - Quite a few choices are for aesthetic reasons as there is just some cool stuff out there, and too a degree some OEM stuff is just a bit boring vs adding some groovy touches to ones steeds, and i like to support some of the really good aftermarket companies that make cool stuff. If possible they may have a slight performance upgrade, some its a wash, they just add something groovy. But bearing options etc will be fun to cover as well as some good upgrades there (ie thread together housing vs press in bb30 etc)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Haha. Sounds like you like to have fun with your setup. And why not? I think my favorite thing that I can see is your Cane Creek eeWings crankset. Anyway, I'm sure we'd all like to know what products you use and how you prep your drivetrain. Hopefully you can do that sometime. Be well!
Will be great to see your bikes.
And how about cleaning tips of Suspension front and rear?
I have a question for wiping excess wax off chain with using Effetto Mariposa Flower Power. In your "How-to-apply-Wax-or-Wet-Drip-lubricants-v2" you write in the application part "THOROUGHLY wipe excess lubricant from outside of the chain with an
absorbent cloth (ie microfiber)" and "Ensure wipe excess lubricant from outside of the chain each ride (or at least before the next re-lube)". Can you elaborate on these two points? For me it is not really clear what you mean by "outside" and what "thoroughly wipe" is looking like without wiping all the wax off that I just applied.
Adam,
i've been using wax with PTFE and MoS2 for a while now (3 yrs?) on MTB and road bikes (mostly with YBN and SRAM XX1 12s chains) and i really love it. Anyhow i noticed there is sometimes a problem with it - namely with wet/snowy conditions and temperatures around 0 deg (or very cold - e.g. -10C) - some links/rolers are getting a bit stuck so the chain is not flexing easily enough and thus skipping teeth. Have you seen this kind of behaviour?
is this a DIY blend? if it is it is likely a problem with the base wax and what is that. I have never heard of this to date occuring with msw or hot melt, and a plenty enough of those products are sold to people who live though very cold winters. If it is DIY - the only further help i can offer is to refer to the DIY wax section in wax FAQ guide - DIY wax issues have resulted in me receiving about 4.6billion enquires from around the world in the last 5 years, it is just a black hole, i have to draw a line now on not sinking more time into the never ever ever ever ever ending issues / enquiries that stem from DIY waxing
Tell us about the rc car equipment! Noticed the nice MIP tools. Do you race?
HI Daisy! Ha once upon a time i did with some friends, now we just play for fun - where i live we are lucky enough to have been able to make a fun course just out the back - we try to have a monthly movie night catch up starting with a couple hours racing + beer, then dinner and movie in the cinema. Grand times. I find building a new car / fixing / ,maintaining the cars quite relaxing whilst watching cycling. There is a simple pleasure in taking something thats broken and making it perfect again. MIP tools rock, so do the titanium arrow max black golden tools. A pleasure to grab in thy fingers every time! I may race again one day if i ever get time..... that is on the to do list in semi retirement :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 That is super cool!
The 2 chain system talk was pretty dang compelling
I've been told im persuasive :)
11:13 Is it ok to go straight from a hot water rinse into the wax?
I was glad to hear this doesn’t seem to be a problem. That makes the system seem a lot easier to me on paper.
My first concern was for the chain-will all the water get displaced by wax? My next concern was for the longevity of the wax, but based on what you said, it sounds like getting a little water in the wax doesn’t negatively affect the wax-so that’s good!
ah yes - good timing - i may have to re visit that. Mspeedwax have done some specific testing on this and they have found that water can accumulate in the wax, and so their official recommendation is to dry. I will try to re test more myself, when i have done it (and other local racers doing post muddy cx etc) - we see a lot of bubbles coming up in the wax and bursting - as the wax is always 70 to 90dg depending on pot and fill level, that is at a temp that water definitely wants to evaporate, we dont have bubbles when if we dont put a wet chain in - it makes sense the bubbles are water evaporating, and when i decant out my pot 1 wax that saw a bunch of we chains, there was no water. Mspeedwax however advised they have found water accumulating in bottom of the wax. I think it may be down in some part to frequency and wax temp. Ie someone doing occasionally as only ride occasionally in the wet, i dont think will have an issue. Someone who rides all the time in the wet and is putting a wet chain into wax near every re wax - maybe over time they may have not great re waxes. And what temp does their wax pot get to, 70, 80, 90? this may impact if water is evaporating out easily, partially, poorly. I am going to need to re visit this questions in greater detail, but officially now the word from msw is that you should dry the chain if you can, especially if it is going to be frequent. Sorry for a different answer on clarification vs what is in the video, but this one is proving a tad more fun than expected.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for taking the time to follow up. I will use the hair dryer (or at least let it air dry for a while) before the rewax going forward. Thanks!
Hey Adam,
Your comments on the immersive drip bath (super secret) have me intrigued and have of course lead me to further questions/ clarification.
As I am going travelling with my bike for months on end this year I unfortunately can’t be hot melt waxing and was going to use the super secret drip (on top of a freshly waxed chain)
1: Am I good just to pour my super secret drip into a jar and that will do the job? (I seem to remember you saying you can’t do this with Ceramic Speed UFO as it dries too quick).
2: are there any indicators such as colour for when to stop immersive dipping in the drip wax?
+ would it be worth wiping the chain or a quick boiling water bath to remove the surface dirt.
I would also quite like to make a video on it as a how to travel with a waxed chain guide.
Thank you for all of your hard work. It helps a lot!
Ah that sounds like an exciting trip!. Yes correct ufo dries out - super secret in the tub should indeed be exactly the same as the bottle , i cannot imagine they would havea different formula for the tub - so you should have no drying out issues.
If you are riding in dusty / wet conditions - then wiping chain if dusty prior to putting in tub, or boiling water flush rinse if possible post wet ride and blow dry with hair dryer - this will lessen the contamination you bring in. The tub is not going to finish the trip with lubricant as amazing as when it started, however overall it is going to be a great thing for your chain as every re lube is flushing chain - and you are effectively diluting the contamination across hundreds of ml of lubricant, vs the contamination building up in only a few ml on your chain. The ratio of contamination vs lubrication running in your chain is simply going to be vastly lower, and this is going to be very good.
Note re ss drip - it does like a good set time - overnight minimum. Treatment lifespan is not super long - it should have no trouble on dry days, but it will struggle on long wet days so be prepared to top up if wet - possibly multiple times. It would not be a top option at all for long wet days - but if only using that option - thats ok as it will rock on dry days - be prepared for interventions on wet days.
I appreciate this. Thank you!
Thank you! I posted this on an earlier video, but I noticed a lot of your bikes have oversize jockey wheels. Have you ever tested that on the dyno? I have a feeling they don't move the need on efficiency, but I do wonder if they affect waxing intervals. cheers!
They shouldn't.
Hi jonathan very sorry for delay reply, project week + catching up post project week - its been a bit mega! They have some sound physics, math and testing by mfg (take with salt) to show they do help drivetrain efficiency by a little. You would never notice. 99% of jockey wheel upgrades are for pimping purposes only - personally i just love adding little touches to my bikes, because they are wonderful machines to me, and OEM pulleys are just too boring. There is an extremely poor economic case to be made for OSPW, or upgrading pulleys in general if you OEM are running smooth and light - it is just fun if one has spare budget. Mfg claim testing has ospw at say 2w savings - it would likely be less than that, and that would be for a slowish chain. As all the savings are from chain, if you are running a low friction chain that is say half the losses of typical add meh wet lube & ride cyclist, then you can expect savings to be halved, as there is less chain friction to save. So the bang for buck makes no economic senses except for pro riders who dont pay for it, for us, it is for fun.
Hi Adam, I am planning on doing some bike touring and it would not be possible to take a slow cooker with me as it is too bulky and requires an electric hookup which I won't have access to. Do you think I could use a camping stove to heat up the wax instead? Cheers
hi gabriel sorry delay reply - nah just pack a wax compatible drip lube like silca ss drip, ufo drip, tru tension tungsten all weather, and re wax when you get home! you dont need to clean chain to re wax over those lubricants. Yeehaa. super easy.
What do you think about molybdenum or tungsten disulfide in a powder form to use as an additive instead of Teflon powder since tungsten disulfide has even more lubricity than Teflon because the COF of it is 0.03 instead of Teflon’s 0.04, and is now known as the most lubricating thing known to man.
Yes ditch teflom, MSw have, hot melt never had it. PTFE and moly much cheaper which is why previously so common, but due to both performance and negativity re toxic production of PTFE, the move by the good mfg has been to tungsten disulfide.
Thank you for great information and proper analysis. I am taking your advice and trying out immersive waxing (silca) for road and general use, but am looking for more info on wet CX use (NW Europe here). The worry is that a race will wear off the wax, the bike will be basic cleaned before leaving the race venue, but could easily have rusted before getting home and having time to clean/rewax chain properly Would a wax last a 1hr 10 mile very muddy race or do I need to drip wax to protect the chain before rewaxing ?
Hi Lloyd - yep great questions - firstly re rusting, chains wont rust that quickly unless you have a super long trip home! And if you do, after wash down, wipe chain dry, then wrap in a dry microfibre cloth, that will protect it for good stretch, and then when home boiling water flush rinses, dry, re wax. Re will it last - an hour long wet muddy cx is a stretch - but honestly, it is a stretch for ANY lubricant. With waxing vs other (another wax drip lube wont really fair any better vs immersive msw / hot melt) - you have to weight up that it will remain low friction in harsh conditions until such time as it is basically abraded off, then a very large jump in friction to circa 15 to 20w. Vs say a long lasting wet lubricant, that may be able to stay around 10 / 12w - but it is likely to start increasing towards that mark from the first pedal stroke. This is one reason why you see full mudder world cx races they swap bikes every lap, aside from washing a kg of mud weight off bike, they douse more lube on.
A key tip is to do your practice laps on training chain, then put on race chain for race so it is starting fresh vs starting having seen 2 or 3 laps of harsh conditions. A key consideration is post race. Even though for wax chain the longer harsher conditions cx races will stretch treatment lifespan, the majority of the event is going to be low friction, and it is going to be very easy to re reset post event. If you use a long lasting wet lubricant - that will literally be litres of solvent to properly flush clean.
IF it was a key priority event that was going to be very harsh conditions - a common trick is to apply grease to outside of chain. This will quickly gather a lot of contamination, and you will have higher viscous friction / stiction - but the grease helps prevent water and contamination having a free run right through the chain / tougher job for contamination to get from the outside of the chain to inside, and it is abrasive contamination inside chain that does all the wear and the huge majority of friction damage. it is messy, and it is a lot of work post even to clean drivetrain and chain - but it gives a chain the best chance to remain somewhat effectively lubricated for a longer wet muddy cx event.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks Adam great advice
Hello Adam,
What's your latest thoughts for waxing and chain selection for a 7 speed electric bike. I have been using food grade paraffin wax for about 5 years with excellent results, not interested in watts saved just a clean drive chain and a "significant" reduction in drive train wear which is the case now, about 5000km and little measurable wear on the Shimano chain checker. Is it worth the considerable increase in cost to change to a commercial wax formula and if the improvement is significant, what would you suggest?
Thanks.
Hi David you mighty fine intrepid cyclist! Apologies for delay - last two weeks have been mega indeed! I have a big section on DIY waxing in FAQ guide, as it mostly goes very averagely to very poorly - but not always. If what you are doing is working for you, and at lower cost - then you have no need to change. For 99% though, they always see big benefits changing to something like msw / hot melt that have just so much genuine R&D and investment - the base wax isnt just food grade paraffin, its pretty high tech blend of waxes, and there base wax kills anything diy dead. A bag lasts circa 10,000km - but you have to do your own cost / benefit calcs. Odds are extremely high it will deliver measurably lower wear and longer treatment lifespan, but if you are able to stay on top of waxing with home wax and its working - enjoy. Chain selection, more tricky for e-bike. They ybn sla 8spd is last non budget normal 8spd chain, others from main brands are very cheap, no wear protection, and so wear quickly on non e bikes let alone e bikes, but the ybn is not e bike rate. The best 8spd e bike chain (8 and 7spd are interchangeable) is srams ebike specific chain for their 8spd e bike specific drivetrain - sorry i forget the model number and im short on google time - it has been very, very hard to find though - but if you can, that chain is very durable - no other 8spd will last as long as that one and be ebike rate.
Can you make a video showing off your beautiful bikes please! You have fine taste
Ha thanks james - i might have to do one in future when a) my gold ingrid cranks for aspero are installed, b) when i have the new super caliber properly built up (almost) c) when the unno horn frame arrives and is built and d) when the bastion arrives. It may seem like ive gone a bit nuts but, the old trek warhorse getting a tad old & slow vs new kids on the block for xc racing, hence the super caliber, and the unno horn for xc marathon and the bastion are both very very very very long term relationship plans for racing for the next hopefully 2 to 3 decades (i am planning ahead - i managed to get clearance for an xcm bike upgrade and forever road bike for my 50th in a couple of years, but have started the ordering and building now). In short, in a bit the stable will look AMAZING - but that will be the new bike spend done for a super long time i think... No plans at all to upgrade the cx / gravel bike, road training bike, TT bike. Im having a good time. I just need to ride more!! :)
on the last question, you and Josh from Silica differ in that he suggests letting the wax bath cool to just start to form a skin and then pull. he states more wax inside the chain....im not sure, and many folks are not sure! I know there's more on the outside for sure....haha
Hi! I do not recommend that path at all, the pressures inside the chain are too high, so trying to "lock more wax" inside, all you will have is more excess pressed outside during initial 10 mins riding, and also a lot more mess coming of chain on install and initial pedals. It is possible it gives you a very small overall treatment lifespan increase, but it would be very small indeed, and especially in day to day re waxing, in no way worth the extra time hassle and mess of re waxing that way - really especially once full treatment break in and polish of wax is done about 20 to 30 mins in - you will have the same thickness of a thin wax coating on chain if you had removed from pot and hung on hot summers day, as you would if you let wax cool and removed and put chain somewhere cold to set as fast as possible - pressures under load are often in the thousands of PSI - only a thin coating can remain, re rest is excess that will be pressed out.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for that answer! I will follow your guidance as it makes mechanical sense! I know you are the expert so I trust your massive amount of experience!.I'll spread the word as well. thanks again for your time and reply!
Can I confirm, the concept here is Capillary Effect, where surface tension keeps a fluid in a small gap. Pulling the chain out at high temperature allows more wax to run off the outside of the chain, and it runs out of the big holes where the sprocket teeth would knock it out anyway. But it stays as a surface coating and in the small bearing gaps inside the chain, where you want it. Perfect. I find that a quick end-to-end brush with a chain U-brush removes most of the excess wax, and the chain rides perfectly and cleanly after about 15 minutes of riding.
How would you recommend cleaning a chain that has gone slightly rusty before rewaxing?
Hi Johnny sorry delay been way behind! I wouldnt, it is just cosmetic. It takes vastly longer for anything bad to happen inside chain as air exposure is much less. If i had to though, it would be a small brass brush from hardware store. But just re-wax soon after wet rides, or wipe and apply TTAW / Silca SS Drip / Or ufo drip, and avoid any oxidation for looks purposes
If waxing multiple chains at a time, with the intent to using multiple chains, what's the best way to store the unused waxed chain(s)? I guess my specific question would be when traveling. If I'm going to bring an extra chain in my luggage, can it just be tossed in a Ziploc bag, or is there a better way to store/transport it?
Hey aarons - a fresh waxed chain is well protected so from an environment perspective - it itself doesnt need protecting. However post use on cycling trip, the wax will be abraded off outside of rollers, rollers can easily oxidize as are high carbon steel for hardness - so you will want to either a) wrap in microfiber cloth or b) add a quick coating of compatible wax drip lube (ss drip, ufo drip, tru tension tungsten all weather) and then wrap that in a microfiber cloth for ultimate protection. If it has been a wet ride you will want to dry, and coat with wax lube before storing if possible. Wet ride and just leaving rollers un lubed and exposed to air, with rust catalyst minerals on from wet ride - the rollers will rust over coming day / days.
Never store chain in plastic bag. Plastic bags are like moisture humidifiers and so are a rust catalysts. A factory grease chain wrapped in plastic is nothing like you popping a ridden chain in a ziploc or plastic bag - the latter is definitely a do not do. Cloth wrap will be all groovy post dry riding, re lube and cloth wrap post wet ride if storing.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 alright cool. I’ve got a 250+ mile ride coming up soon over 3 days and planned on bringing a second waxed chain to swap out due to the length. Just trying to figure out how to pack it. Appreciate the advice.
I cleaned the factory chain with motorex chain decgreaser by spraying it heavily and wiping with a microfiber. Then applied UFO drip. Should I have used a spirits bath for UFO drip? I m planning on making an immersive bath setup where I ultrasonically clean the chain in an hot water to remove old wax and contamination before hot melt rewaxing. In between I would apply some UFO drip to top off when I don't have much time. Can you recommend this method to not contaminate the wax? Shall I use hot water for ultrasound or some alcohol or spirit? Thanks for your precious advice.
Hi Pirmin! I am not certain if that degreaser would pose a problem, however best practice for most wax lubricants especially is to ensure there is no film left from cleaning. The wax really wants to bond to clean and clear chain metal - the easier we make that - the better the lubricant can do that. It is definitely not as tricky as this analogy but think if you were going to need to paint that surface - would paint adhere all good to the plates post degreaser or would it really have trouble bonding. Vs if the clean was finished with alcohol round. Taking away the possibility of the lubricant needing to fight it was through a film to try to bond to chain metal is best practice.
Re your ultrasonic plan - thats great if it is your dedicated race chain and you have a dedicated race wax pot and you want everything mint, and every fraction of a watt speed. For your training chain, i really discourage such regimes. There is so little contamination getting in in dry riding (especially if it road) as its a solid wax. You will spend a lot of time and electricity for no tangible benefit you could track. Just re wax, and change to fresh wax every approx 30 re waxes which is about 10,000km or 1 year for most cyclists. It is just so easy and so low wear to do this way, cleaning every time before re wax for training chains is really not an effective use of time / any cleaning product. At all.
In fact, over the years of zfc - if i have had in all this time say 50 reported cases of premature wear for a chain on waxing - the 49 of them have been cleaning before every re wax. The problem seems to be that drying of chain before re waxing gets lazy, and re waxing a chain that is still wet inside is not the best. Save any such cleaning for post wet riding where it is actually going to help vs a lot of hassle for really a false economy benefit - ie you will spend more on electricity than you will get back in chain longevity or more rewaxes from wax in pot before change. When it is done only when it should be done - then people are more likely to properly dry chain before re waxing vs getting slack on that if doing every time.
If you are going to ultrasonic clean the wax chain before re waxing (race chains only, post wet rides) - then no alcohol wont do a lot - not many solvents work on wax. Boiling water flush baths first to melt off the bulk of contaminated wax, finish with either a proper ultrasonic solution that will work on wax - but you will need to run ultrasonic at 65dg c so need a heated ultrasonic - dont forget to degas etc - refer to ultrasonic & race chain guide on website - or- easier, is use UFO clean that will work on wax and doesnt require heated ultrasonic. Boiling water flush clean post ultrasonic round until water goes from milky white to clear. UFO clean also solves issue of possible flammable vapours etc that can be concern for some solvents. Properly dry with hair dryer or heat gun - these get chain nice and hot and evap water out from deep inside vs cold air from compressor or similar - and re wax.
Hey Adam, i have used wet lubes for ages and prepping for my first Ironman made me cleaning my bikes and thinking about reducing friction. Your channel is so good you brought me to forget about wet lubes and move to wax based ones. Cause I am used to drip and have no space I have decided to go with ufo v2 and Graphen lube. I have prepped my chains and applied it. I have watched nearly every video but just want to make sure - you suggest to clean the chain by pouring boiled water over it - got that.but I.e. for Graphen lube - do I have to do the full immersive wax with the polybag or is it enough to drip it onto the chain? (Absolut black writes it is ok to wipe contamination down after a wet ride and drip a new layer onto the chain …). With ufo there is no polybag method so I would consider to put on the boiler and reapply by dripping ufo on the chain, right?
Last question - turbo trainer. I thought about using wet lube for my turbo because I am afraid of ruining my bed room (where the turbo lives) with wax everywhere. Is there a trick to reduce the spill? Would you choose Graphen over ufo or the other way around (or even wet lube)
Thank you so much for your great content and please keep on going
Best regards from Germany
Hi Paoloest apologies for delay reply i struggle to find a spot to go back and check vids - if you ever need an answer timely zing me an email on info@zerofrictioncycling.com.au - but great to ask here too so all can see.
RE the cleaning - boiling water does a good flush clean for many of the most highly refined wax base lubes such as ufo / graphen, but note it is not a perfect clean. It is also something that you should only do post proper wet rides, their dry contamination resistance is high enough that such a cleaning maintenance is rarely needed (maybe every circa 3000km road). UFO v2 you do not need to apply immersive (it is best not to - you will use up the entire bottle - it will dry up after that amount of exposure to air), for AB graphen you would definitely want to do the immersive application to be safe. Note you get maybe 4, usually 3 - immersive applications from a bottle, so each one costs you about $60 to do, so only do when you absolutely must for graphen lube. If you need to do a proper contamination reset you should - boiling water baths, dry, into a container of ufo clean, soak 15mins, remove, flush with boiling water until water clear - dry - re lube. UFO clean not cheap but you can clean many many chains doing the above, it is super concentrated and can soak up a lot of product indeed before need to change (ie a bottle would do at least 30 cleans of above). For graphen lube you must use polybag or better is a 500ml screwtop container - it must be immersive, drip on has significant initial penetration issues - they wouldnt advise customers (and scaring off many) to have to do immersive if it didnt absolutely need to be done (and it does, that was checked and checked as part of testing for them, and verified with further testing on their end as well as mine).
For turbo - to start i wouldnt choose graphen for anything other that a very very long event that would exceed treatment lifespan of other options. It is just far too expensive. Why not use something that is also amazing (like ufo drip) and just re apply more frequently and save a huge amount on lubricant. For ergo, the top couple of wet lubricants can be a great option as they are super long lasting (ie synergetic, rex black diamond) - many can just go months / year on a single treatment on ergo when a treatment will likely last 800 or 1000km +, and they are very very low wear, and contamination indoors is really not an issue - wet lubes i really only caution against for offroad riding, the top wet lubes still brilliant option for road riders / ergo. However if ergo is being shared by bike also running wax lube chain, stay with wax lube like ufo so that the wax chain is not contaminated by a wet lube. I am an avid waxer myself, but if i had a dedicated ergo bike, due to the flakes, i would use synergetic or BD on a dedicated ergo bike to save cleaning hassle and the convenience of barely every needing to re lube.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 WOuld Silca SS drip work well on the trainer if I have a bike that has to go on and off the trainer during fall and spring (I would be changing the chain for outdoor or indoor)? Or would Synergetic be good but I'd have to get the pulley wheels and chainrings cleaned up a bit before putting waxed chain on the bike before going outdoor?
@@olivierhebert9664 yes for sure, squirt is a perfectly good option and you can swap on an immersive wax chain without worrying about contamination. If you run a wet lubricant you would absolutely want to wipe all bits down before putting wax chain on. Many find squirt hand for indoor as cleaning post wet rides / dust ride periodic maintenance not really an issue - squirt is a bit harder work maintenance wise vs the very refined lubes like ss drip / ufo - but for indoor it is not really a problem, and its cheap and pretty long lasting per treatment so can be an easy option.
How many re-uses to you personally like to do with a YBN quick-link before using a new one?
Officially 5, most dont keep an exact count and go maybe 7 or 8, i would not go longer than 10 to be super safe. No reported failures, but why risk it when a pack of links doesnt cost much and lasts about 15,000km of waxing. Risk / reward ratio!
Would a parts cleaner work to wax chains?
To wax chains or to clean chains for waxing? A slow cooker and a good swishing is best in 99.9999% of cases - ultrasonic for those who know how to ultrasonic in wax for wax race chains, but you need the right ultrasonic, and most do not.... if not enough power the friction modifiers simply settle to the bottom of the wax for a relatively poor waxing vs just swishing in a pot
@@zerofrictioncycling992 to get factory grease off
Can I clean using a degreaser and brush and wipe out grime and oil lube and apply wax lube
not really. I mean you can, but the wax lubricant will likely have a very tough time bonding as heavy film of stuff will be left behind. Wax lubricants definitely work best when they can bond to clean clear chain metal, so proper clean and prep is very important for the right outcome. A poor clean will lead to poor treatment lifespan of the wax application, and also likely wax gunking up.
Refer to chain prep guide on zfc website (instructions tab) - that will take you through best prep for on or off bike chain prep -it is easy just use the right stuff the right way and yeehaa.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 so in this case the best is to deep clean or buy a new chain and remove factory grease but how do I do yhat
@@ionuttv5874 yes correct - head to here for on or off bike prep for new or used chains. If stepping into this the first time it may seem like a lot, but trust me it really is easy, once you have done your first one properly, you are off and running then for the rest of your life enabling you to properly prep and run top lubricant options. It is a great basic skill for cyclists to learn, just like learning to fix a flat;
zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Chain-prep-Guide-Concise-v2.pdf
Is this guy taking money from Silca and other overpriced stuff? Just to know...
You say that sooo many people are having problems, using crap wax but let's be real, quality paraffin wax is available everywhere and anyone who is willing to pay 40 bucks for 500gr of "branded chain wax" has access to a good quality paraffine for 1/10 of the price.
If you look at Oz Cycle (yeah i know, you are not a fan of this guy who is going the opposite way of what you are trying to do), he is even using the cheapest one from Ebay and still having amazing results with it.
Mixing it with ptfe, ws2 or MoS2 really give great results, similar to the best ones out there but for a lot cheaper.
I don't have any problem with you promoting these brands if they make good products, and some of them do. The problem i have is you giving the alternative way a bad rep when almost everyone that is trying it is happy with it and having really good results.
I don't know who all these people having problem around the world and begging for your help are, but sounds a lot overplayed.
You try so hard to dismiss the diy way of waxing and you want to reserve this for these brands you are working with, you can argue all you want but that's what you are doing at the end of the day.
I know there's a lot of money to be made in this game, but if you want to call yourself some kind of independant testing guy, you should test many combinaisons and not just the ones you can sell.
Cool story, Bro.
Try BIC-50 chepark lub
are you just adding this as a comment to my vids? as per a previous reply - why? there are hundreds of wax drip lubricants on the market - testing a lubricant takes a lot of time resources with most tests taking 6 to 8 weeks or more - there must be a compelling case to test. I am open to adding lubricant to the long list for testing and have tested lubricants often requested to be testing, but a solid case has to be made to test. For all i know you simply work there.... ?
I'm pretty sure you mentioned in one video that Squirt is not compatible as a top off on a immersive waxed chain, but UFO and Super Secret is fine. Why is that?
Hey there - you can use products like squirt, smoove and grax - and they will be ok - with some caveats. Basically they use a different wax base - we believe they use slack wax or something very similar. this is a more oil wax - which is why they can have greater treatment longevity vs the very refined drip waxes like ss drip, ufo, tru tension etc. Being more oily / less refined paraffin base - they are not as compatible to use with immersive waxing.
However, if one say applies a treatment of squirt / smoove/ grax - runs that treatment until chain is starting to sound / feel a bit dry- a rewax over that goes fine - and many do this for cycling holiday etc to get through holiday until back to wax pot.
It doesnt go as well if one has mutliple treatments applied and starting to get some build up. You are trying to wax over something that will not just melt off in the wax pot, and the wax will have some trouble trying to bond to chain metal for an immersive wax coating that will behave as normal.
hope that helps!
@@zerofrictioncycling992, thanks alot! I guess ill stick with UFO drip and maybe try their new wet condition version also. Regards