Multiple 80km/h speed restrictions on what is a relatively short high speed line is not a good look at all. Unfortunately, there's no quick fix for such cracks on the viaducts.
I mean, it is not, but it is not even a 10 min delay, which is adjusted for in the timeslot. Meanwhile the eurostar still gets more delay from belgium.
For me, the problem with Eurostar is that it's freaking expensive. The train from Rotterdam - Paris is as expensive as Paris - Barcelona. And don't get me started on Rotterdam - London. I want to use the train so bad... but the price is such a factor as well
@@Thom-TRA This stuff should obviously be better subsidized and the service should run even more frequently, but until then flying is still the way better option :/
Great summary, thanks! The Eurostar situation is so frustrating. My wife has to go to London quite often and she tries to take the Eurostar as much as she can, but there are many times that it's not possible. We need more trains to London, not fewer! As for that Barcelona train, as soon as that starts up I'm going to take it. I've been meaning to make a video about Barcelona for ages, and that would be the perfect excuse to travel there!
The EU really needs to bust up Eurostar's monopoly on the Eurotunnel. Let the other EU and UK rail operators compete on that line, it would definitely reduce prices, Eurostar price gouges horribly. The entire idea of one private company being granted exclusive use of one of the most important pieces of publicly funded infrastructure in Europe is just bizarre.
@@mrvwbug4423 DB had permssion for the channel tunnel 10 years ago but shekved it. One obstacle is that trains have to be 300m long for safety reason (emergency exits in tunnel 300m apart). This implies you need to use uninterupted trains as long as 2 regular trainsets with 2x500-600 passengers. To run 1000+ trains service is not that easy ...
Use the Eurostar spat as a reason to break their monopoly on train services through the Eurotunnel and allow competition on that line, Eurostar grossly price gouges on services through the Eurotunnel, at a minimum allow SNCF, DB, Trenitalia and a UK operator to run services on that route too. Any train that can run in France should be able to run through the Eurotunnel and on HS1 (I do believe HS1 runs French loading gauge rather than UK loading gauge and it uses French TVM signaling on the entire stretch except for the short approach to St Pancras)
GetLink, the tunnel owner, are happy to have increased competition. Problem is that you cannot use generic trains in the tunnels. The trains need to meet very specific requirements in case of an emergency. So operators would need to order, buy, maintain, operate a different train set which is a big investment and costs money long term, too. But a few years ago, there were operators like Renfe and others who expressed interest in soing so. Let's see what happens...
not a good look when your purpose-built high speed line is restricted to a lower top speed than the average speed for Amtrak’s Northeast Regional from Washington to Boston, which is roughly 91 km/h.
i rarely take trains going through that highspeed line because there is a 3 euro surcharge. It saves at most 30 minutes of travel time, but the high speed trains on it are so often late that instead of incercity direkt we call them intercity defekt
On a positive note, I've occasionally gotten to ride one of the new IC trains to/from Tilburg and they are beautiful and clean and SO QUIET! It feels like riding in a first class pod no matter where you are on the train. The mood lighting is quirky but very relaxing. MORE of this please NS!
If Eurostar wants to stop in the Netherlands, why not make Rotterdam a temporary terminus? But Rotterdam is of course not as posh a destination as Amsterdam. Travelers can easily change, because there are four trains per hour from Rotterdam CS to Amsterdam. From Rotterdam, travellers can also reach other cities in the north, east and south of the country.
Space, the Eurostar checks area in Rotterdam can only handle 150 passengers, which just is not enough, given that Eurostar trains (to London) can carry 900 passengers. And making a temporary one that can hold 900 is not doable, in Amsterdam they closed down an passengers tunnel under the station to make space for a terminal that can hold 600 people. You cant do that in Rotterdam, as there is only one tunnel, to reach the platforms, and other ways to make space require major renovations.
Rotterdam station has by no means the capacity to perform the border controls for UK for the whole Eurostar.. The journey London-Rotterdam/Amsterdam would not affected because those controls are done in London
Eurostar is bluffing I think, but I think they're also nervous because they're basically going to lose out on much of the NL-BE market now that NS/NMBS are going to be so frequent. London-bound trains aside, those red ones from Thalys that go to Paris are also very long and will be tougher to fill from Amsterdam and Rotterdam to Brussels now. They will have to rely almost completely on passengers going from the Netherlands to Lille and Paris from now on. The complaints about construction at Amsterdam Centraal and the valid points about HSL-Zuid's speed restrictions are to try and save face over the fact that they are very likely to be outcompeted by the national rail carriers. The one disadvantage of this new Eurocity service is that to go to Brussels from Amsterdam, the trains will run from Zuidstation instead of Centraal (which is where Eurostar can try and save the Brussels-Amsterdam market). Considering how easy it is to transfer at Schiphol or take a tram or Metro from Zuid, however, I don't think that'll bother passengers very much. Really the only people that would pick Eurostar due to the station change I can think of are tourists that don't know much about the Dutch rail system and Dutch people from Den Helder, the Zaanregio, or Haarlem without direct trains to Schiphol, Rotterdam, or A'dam Zuid.
@@Thom-TRAis the IC (soon ICEL) to Berlin also gonna run from Zuid? With the mess that Db‘s network is around Cologne I often combine both services to go from Brussels to Hanover - longer run times, but cheaper, and only one change , usually no delays, and a 45 min break around Amsterdam Centraal were very attractive. Not sure how I feel about doing that via Zuid, tbh.
Nice update video Thom. I live in Valkenburg, Lb and there are two points I would like to make: 1) Since the start of the LIMAX service between Aachen and Liège on 30 June, Arriva's scheduling has been appalling. In fact we are now in the middle of what they call a reset mode with normal service resuming on 3 November. Yeah right! There are two structural problems affecting this route: The line between Landgraaf (NL) and Herzogenrath (DE) is single track. In addition, Aachen Hbf is a through station with no terminus bays for trains such as the LIMAX to use. These two factors have resulted in long delays and cancellations. As you said, the OV Chipkaart can't be used south of Eijsden (NL). When I travel from Valkenburg to Liège I use my OV Chipkaart between Valkenburg and Maastricht. The statutory change of crew from Dutch to Belgian at Maastricht allows enough time to alight there and check out with my OV Chipkaart. I can then resume my journey on the same train using the ticket from Masstricht to Liège on my NMBS/SNCB app. (Why can't Arriva place the check-in/check-out facilities on the trains just like Arriva buses?) One sad aspect of this new service is that one Arriva train is stabled in Liège overnight in preparation for the following day's first service. Unfortunately, the vandals there have already spray painted one of our pristine Arriva trains. It's very sad to see this has taken place. 2) I use an app, thanks to 'Man in Seat 61' where I can buy the €49 (soon to be €58) Deutschlandticket. It would be nice if I could use it as far as Heerlen when returning to NL rather than Herzogenrath. After all, travellers can use it as far as Venlo (NL) when returning from Germany.
(Why can't Arriva place the check-in/check-out facilities on the trains just like Arriva buses?) two reasons, stopping at stations will be far longer, and it will be more expensive.
@@daanwolters3751 Why? Passengers can check in and check out while the train is in motion. DB uses this system on some regional trains and I have seen it on other carriers here in NL? Why more expensive? If it works on the buses it can work on the trains.
@@Eurobazz because if passengers can check in while it is in motion, they can quickly check in when they see the tickets guy and skip the fare. With busses the driver sees if you check in, by trains that does not happen. Also people will want to check in while getting inside the train leading to queues, delaying the trains. Because you need more machines, as you will need 2 per each train door. Which is far more than if you just put them on the station, and more machines means more costs. With busses it is the opposite, since you only need 2 or 3 per bus, and a bus stops easily at far more places than a train does. Busses and trains are quite different beasts after all, especially regarding punctuality
it‘s kinda cool how the e320 and the ICE 3neo are a very similar build meaning in Amsterdam you now kinda have the same train in blue-yellow and then in white-red
The e320 is the BR class 374 right? They are basically the same train, the 374 is a Siemens Velaro built to UK loading gauge, even though as far as I know UK loading gauge isn't required on the HS1 route between the eurotunnel and St Pancras, the route was designed to allow TGVs to operate on it which are a bit bigger than the smol UK loading gauge. Eurostar ordered their trains in UK loading gauge because they had plans to run services deeper into the UK
@@mrvwbug4423 Actually the Eurostar ones arent built to the UK loading gauge, just the same as the other Velaros around Europe. Only the older TGV derived class 373 is built to British loading gauge as it had to go over British mainlines before the completion of HS1, which is built to French standards.
I know very little about railroading in Europe. That's a shame because, thanks to your excellent coverage, I can see that service is far more frequent, more progressive, and faster. The US has a lot of catching up to do, for sure. Still, the current picture in the Netherlands seems confusing to someone from another continent. Maybe like having Amtrak and a half dozen Brightlines competing for the same end points, vying for contracts, and so on? Hopefully, Americans will learn the convenience of good rail transit.
I was in Aachen-Maastricht-Liege region in June and yeah, that regional express is badly needed. It was fun catching some random S-trains and regular trains and buses there, but it was nice as a sightseeing opportunity only (although the old rolling stock on the line between Liege and Maastricht is definitely interesting)
It's interesting comparing US and European train travel how most services don't last more than a single overnight-track gauge changing eastern Europe probably is a main factor why there are no direct trains from Paris to Istanbul (at that, the California Zephyr would still probably be longer)
Well the route from Paris to Istanbul goes through the Balkans and the railways in the Balkans are in an abhorent state. Serbia is improving with a Chinese consortium building a new line from Belgrade to Budapest up north in Hungary. And I believe Chinas plan is to have a solidly built line for 160-200km/h and electric all the way from Budapest and down to Athens since the Chinese state owns a port in the area and wants to have an easy flow of freight traffic between it and the rest of Europe. But until such a line is completed I wouldn't count on anything. Plus the fact that Serbia is neither an EU or Schengen member (and is currently in strong ties with both Russia and China) complicates this further.
You need to be more specific with your gauge changing reference with regard to eastern Europe. Do you mean Ukraine and Belarus? Other countries use the 1,435mm standard gauge.
Good timing on this video, now that I'm in the NL I wanted to understand more about the rail network here. Apropo Nightjet: I arrived from Vienna just after the floods in Austria last month, my train was only the second one after they'd started running again. We were stopped for 4,5 hours (!) in Nurnberg. I wonder if it was a one-off (the previous day the train was on time). It was cheap, but I'm definitely not doing it again.
@@Thom-TRA I was watching the OBB info closely and since I was moving for work, I simply had to find a way to get there on short notice. Plane tickets are expensive Budapest-->Netherlands and would've cost a fortune for like the next day, so this train was the least bad option. Yeah, I would try them again, but definitely not the six-pack of passengers in one cabin 😫😆
Jeej, we get in the near future a train, most likely a two sets ICNG, Groningen - Brussels, one set will stay at Lelystad. Flix train most likely wanted to couple their German route to the Dutch one, however they choose to expand in Germany.
I am looking for my Erasmus+ internship, and I hope I would go there by an international train. I never rode one before. As a man from Northeast Asia, having an international trip on a train feels like a privilege sometimes.
Fascinating info for this American. Given that you live in the DC area, I have a book recommendation, Pennsy Electric Years; weittenby a gnet who worked the last 10 years of th PRR in their electris section. In addition to covering all the locomotives and MUs, he covers the mainte ance headaches the electric lines faced. A most interesting book.
Well, it sucks how our railway manager prorail is handling our rail network as you said they will let that speed reduction to 80 stand until 2026 thats unacceptable ill hope sometime that they will get a huge kick on there ass and hoping that they finally realise that one of the most important line needs some maintenance
One of the places I look for European railway news (besides your videos) is "The Man in Seat 61". His web site has a news link which is up to date on the latest European Railway news. One of the stories regarding Belgium you missed was - "New direct non-high-speed Paris-Brussels trains: A new Belgian Railways EuroCity service of 3 trains a day in each direction will be introduced over the classic route between Brussels & Paris via Mons, similar to that provided for the Olympics in July-September this year. This is good news for Interrail & Eurail passholders, at last an inexpensive alternative to the busy Eurostar-formerly-Thalys high-speed trains with their hefty reservation fees." This of course sounds like the old days before Thalys/Eurostar started running. These trains will be much cheaper than the high priced Eurostar trains and will run over lower speed conventional lines.
It‘s not directly linked to the NL though, which this video was restricted to. DB at Innotrans presenting more details on the ICEL would have been a possible aspect to talk about, but I guess it‘s not really service related, so might as well not.
Well almost like old days. Before HS trains the Etoile du Nord TEE would do Amsterdam-Paris Gare du Nord in like 4h20min. So something like 2 hours for Brussels to Paris. This train does Brussels-Paris in 3 hours. Why would the current Eurocity need 45-60 minutes longer for the route ..? But it is definitely a good addition, if it will be continued .
Like Thom said its already being built. Its called Brightline west and is a high speed line built in the median of a highway between Las Vegas and Rancho Cucamonga, a suburb about 60km from downtown LA. (Stupid end of the line I know). The line wont really be high speed much though, since the windy nature of the highway in several cases limits speeds to 200km/h or even just 120km/h in places like over the mountain pass into Greater Los Angeles. The service is gonna use a fleet of Siemens Velaro Novo high speed trains, becoming the launch customer of this new type if everything goes according to plan.
It’s really fun when you can make a video assuming that your audience knows a lot about trains already. You can use sophisticated terms and use specialized terms that only rail fans know
Encountered a major problem with Arriva Heerlen last weekend. They cancelled trains because there were no drivers. This wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't have a connection to make from Aachen. Pay you employees, Dutch train companies! NS has been doing this lately as well.
There is some 'misinformation' in this video. It is regarding the speed restrictions. The restrictions (TSB's) are only in place on 1/3rd of the HSL-Zuid north section between Rotterdam and Schiphol. The entire Rotterdam to Antwerpen Centraal is still fully 300 km/h capable and is still in great shape. The speed on the 1/3rd of the northern section will probably be back at 120 km/h by the beginning of next year.
A speed restriction is a speed restriction. I never said the whole line is slow. But 1/3rd at 80km/h is still a problem. Even 120 is slower than the conventional tracks. Don’t use the word “misinformation” so carelessly. Misinformation is a real problem and by misusing it you weaken the meaning of it.
@@Thom-TRA I sincerely apologise for my comment. I am reading comments from people who don't know a lot about HSL-Zuid and think that the entire line has these kinds of construction faults. It would have been a bit better if it included that detail.
@@Thom-TRA At the Prorail website I read that, with the 80kmh speed limitations at the bridges, the IC Direct to Brussels would have only 3 minute delay and Thalys/Eurostar 5-6 minutes. Would Eurostar really want to step out and let in inevital competitors in for a lousy (temporary) 5 minutes on what they describe as a potential growth corridor ?🤔🤔 This shows also that cities can be too close for proper High Speeds ( and this counts also for Antwerp-Brussels). I find it actually ridiculous that NS charge ICDirect as a High Speed premium price corridor. With the ICNG they finally arranged with NMBS that they could skip commuter stations like Mechelen and stop only in Antwerp. That will be 211km in 2h5min and they charge that as 'High Speed Premium' ! A regular intercity does a similar distance of Groningen-Amsterdam, with 4 stops, in 1h59. That is at a track speed of 140kmh. IC Direct should not count as a HS journey , really..
Man the Eurostar situation is frustrating. Though also having to clear border checks before the UK is also awful and means you cant use London bound departures to destinations before the border, despite there only being 1 stop in the UK. Its stupid to not have the border controls in the UK at St Pancras. The cracks on the high speed line are awful too, the Netherlands really should put more care into their rail network, theyre in the state now that Danish railways were in 15-20 years ago!
It does make some sense. If you'd require a whole Eurostar train to go through border checks upon arrival, the lines would probably be huge, making planning connections upon arrival nearly impossible
@@jlust6660 Unless you make a big enough facility with enough capacity. I mean its not an issue for the airports so why should it be for St Pancras station or the British government? Like theres already some available land that could be used, like a lawn and parking lot next to the station by the British library which could be used, at least partially for border controls.
@@drdewott9154 This would be annoying seeing as with an hourly service for example, you'd have a huge line for like 10 minutes every hour, while the border personnel would have little to do the rest of the time. With checks on departures passengers don't all arrive at the same time, so you have a more constant stream. It works in airports because they also have a more constant stream of international passengers, but even then, seats in the back of large airplanes are notorious for resulting in huge waiting times at passport control. That's also the reason why many airports see USA preclearance facilities as a pretty big competitive advantage. Besides, train connections are way shorter than plane connections, partly for this reason.
@@jlust6660 But the Eurostar runs more often than once per hour. And with border facilities WITHIN the UK that removes a massive logistical hurdle that means more operators can open up diferent routes and mean more frequent departures and arrivals in and out of the station. If such a control facility can facilitate a full 400m train's load every 10 or 15 minutes, then thats more than adequate!
@@drdewott9154 I seriously doubt that making border facilities that can handle efficiently handle 400m trains every 15 minutes is going to be trivial, but oh well. Besides I don't think the UK is ever going to agree with having all border checks on one side of the channel only
One aspect regarding Eurostar and the NL (let‘s be honest, limiting the train to Rotterdam for a while might make sense, but having Brussels or Antwerp as terminus really does not) is that the main thing limiting them from connecting Brussels and London to other destinations in France (including Barcelona and Switzerland) is missing train stock, which this move would free up. As an SNCF subsidiary it will be relatively easy for them to get permissions in France (poor Flixtrain, poor customers); and I am sure they will just do what is projected to bring them the most profit, as usual.
The international terminal in Rotterdam is pretty small though, so it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to board many passengers on the London bound services from there. The Brussels terminal is much bigger and was actually designed to be a terminus originally, as opposed to Rotterdam
A question, I'm not from Europe so pls don't judge. Are there trains between Paris and Barcelona? I read an article quite a while back saying there were none and I'm curious hpw the situation has changed.
I am not concerned with Eurostar throwing a tantrum. Access for wheelchairs to those trains is appalling. I shall be much happier on the ICNG. And I have no interest in going back to the UK.
Eurostar is not leaving, they are bluffing, they will not abandon their most profitable route. They even rode their trains from london to amsterdam and back empty, just because of the demand for the route (when the border checks could not be done). And paris to amsterdam route is their most profitable route, no way they are abandoning those. Especially since the only thing stopping other trains from running, is limited capacity in brussels.
@@Thom-TRA Yet why now? The speed restriction is being raised to 120, and the main reason why it is not being fixed sooner is Eurostar itself (or rather having to compensate them for closing the line temporarily). But most importantly Eurostar could only board 250 passengers in Amsterdam to london, on the eve that it increases to 600, they threaten to leave?
@@Thom-TRA the current pvv ministers who are responsible for this are as anti-train and pro-airline/cars as possible (for the netherlands, even the vvd is les pro-car/airplane). They really could not have any worse timing for this. Those parties do not dare to kick eurostar out themselves, but would be happy to see it go. Especially since eurostar is mostly known for price gauging in the netherlands.
@@melaniedrogr951Eurostar encounters the same reluctance in Germany because it is mainly French and Germans don't see much financial benefits they can get out by using those services
Going through AMS is still a ****shit according to a Dutch guy I meet st security. That includes the Schengen zone flight. Immigration is awful. Heathrow is way better!
Multiple 80km/h speed restrictions on what is a relatively short high speed line is not a good look at all. Unfortunately, there's no quick fix for such cracks on the viaducts.
I mean, it is not, but it is not even a 10 min delay, which is adjusted for in the timeslot. Meanwhile the eurostar still gets more delay from belgium.
Yeah, there are few things that have been handled worse than the Dutch high speed line
For me, the problem with Eurostar is that it's freaking expensive. The train from Rotterdam - Paris is as expensive as Paris - Barcelona. And don't get me started on Rotterdam - London. I want to use the train so bad... but the price is such a factor as well
It’s so expensive! Monopolies, am I right?
@@Thom-TRA This stuff should obviously be better subsidized and the service should run even more frequently, but until then flying is still the way better option :/
depends how you value your experience and the environment. i’ll avoid the sky sardine cans whenever possible
@@winterwatson6437 that’s a privileged thing to say, though, unfortunately. Some people don’t have the option of choice.
@@winterwatson6437 yeah, it really depends indeed, if flying is half the price and takes less than half as long I made my choice already
Great summary, thanks! The Eurostar situation is so frustrating. My wife has to go to London quite often and she tries to take the Eurostar as much as she can, but there are many times that it's not possible. We need more trains to London, not fewer!
As for that Barcelona train, as soon as that starts up I'm going to take it. I've been meaning to make a video about Barcelona for ages, and that would be the perfect excuse to travel there!
Hey mind if I join you to Barcelona? I heard we have the same citizenship now :)
The EU really needs to bust up Eurostar's monopoly on the Eurotunnel. Let the other EU and UK rail operators compete on that line, it would definitely reduce prices, Eurostar price gouges horribly. The entire idea of one private company being granted exclusive use of one of the most important pieces of publicly funded infrastructure in Europe is just bizarre.
@@mrvwbug4423 Blame the UK for their airport-style boarding requirements too
@@mrvwbug4423 DB had permssion for the channel tunnel 10 years ago but shekved it.
One obstacle is that trains have to be 300m long for safety reason (emergency exits in tunnel 300m apart). This implies you need to use uninterupted trains as long as 2 regular trainsets with 2x500-600 passengers. To run 1000+ trains service is not that easy ...
The trains to Barcelona would have to be gague changing or they would have to build a standard gague track!
Use the Eurostar spat as a reason to break their monopoly on train services through the Eurotunnel and allow competition on that line, Eurostar grossly price gouges on services through the Eurotunnel, at a minimum allow SNCF, DB, Trenitalia and a UK operator to run services on that route too. Any train that can run in France should be able to run through the Eurotunnel and on HS1 (I do believe HS1 runs French loading gauge rather than UK loading gauge and it uses French TVM signaling on the entire stretch except for the short approach to St Pancras)
GetLink, the tunnel owner, are happy to have increased competition. Problem is that you cannot use generic trains in the tunnels. The trains need to meet very specific requirements in case of an emergency. So operators would need to order, buy, maintain, operate a different train set which is a big investment and costs money long term, too. But a few years ago, there were operators like Renfe and others who expressed interest in soing so. Let's see what happens...
The situation on HSL-Zuid is an embarrassment for a country that had build the Afsluitdijk... 😥
I know, I honestly don’t understand it
not a good look when your purpose-built high speed line is restricted to a lower top speed than the average speed for Amtrak’s Northeast Regional from Washington to Boston, which is roughly 91 km/h.
Yep, it’s a mess
i rarely take trains going through that highspeed line because there is a 3 euro surcharge. It saves at most 30 minutes of travel time, but the high speed trains on it are so often late that instead of incercity direkt we call them intercity defekt
On a positive note, I've occasionally gotten to ride one of the new IC trains to/from Tilburg and they are beautiful and clean and SO QUIET! It feels like riding in a first class pod no matter where you are on the train. The mood lighting is quirky but very relaxing. MORE of this please NS!
My brother recently rode it and said he really enjoyed it too!
If Eurostar wants to stop in the Netherlands, why not make Rotterdam a temporary terminus? But Rotterdam is of course not as posh a destination as Amsterdam.
Travelers can easily change, because there are four trains per hour from Rotterdam CS to Amsterdam. From Rotterdam, travellers can also reach other cities in the north, east and south of the country.
I think that would make too much sense
Space, the Eurostar checks area in Rotterdam can only handle 150 passengers, which just is not enough, given that Eurostar trains (to London) can carry 900 passengers.
And making a temporary one that can hold 900 is not doable, in Amsterdam they closed down an passengers tunnel under the station to make space for a terminal that can hold 600 people.
You cant do that in Rotterdam, as there is only one tunnel, to reach the platforms, and other ways to make space require major renovations.
Rotterdam station has by no means the capacity to perform the border controls for UK for the whole Eurostar..
The journey London-Rotterdam/Amsterdam would not affected because those controls are done in London
Eurostar is bluffing I think, but I think they're also nervous because they're basically going to lose out on much of the NL-BE market now that NS/NMBS are going to be so frequent. London-bound trains aside, those red ones from Thalys that go to Paris are also very long and will be tougher to fill from Amsterdam and Rotterdam to Brussels now. They will have to rely almost completely on passengers going from the Netherlands to Lille and Paris from now on. The complaints about construction at Amsterdam Centraal and the valid points about HSL-Zuid's speed restrictions are to try and save face over the fact that they are very likely to be outcompeted by the national rail carriers.
The one disadvantage of this new Eurocity service is that to go to Brussels from Amsterdam, the trains will run from Zuidstation instead of Centraal (which is where Eurostar can try and save the Brussels-Amsterdam market). Considering how easy it is to transfer at Schiphol or take a tram or Metro from Zuid, however, I don't think that'll bother passengers very much. Really the only people that would pick Eurostar due to the station change I can think of are tourists that don't know much about the Dutch rail system and Dutch people from Den Helder, the Zaanregio, or Haarlem without direct trains to Schiphol, Rotterdam, or A'dam Zuid.
I honestly understand the move to Zuid tbh, especially for business passengers
@@Thom-TRA Oh for sure. This is the DC in me talking but Deloitte is going to love this!
@@Thom-TRAis the IC (soon ICEL) to Berlin also gonna run from Zuid? With the mess that Db‘s network is around Cologne I often combine both services to go from Brussels to Hanover - longer run times, but cheaper, and only one change , usually no delays, and a 45 min break around Amsterdam Centraal were very attractive. Not sure how I feel about doing that via Zuid, tbh.
I don't think that passengers between Bruxelles and NL are their main concern, probably less than 5% of their total income
@@jandron94 source?
Outstanding Video 📹 Thanks For Netherlands 🇳🇱 👍 Trains Coverage 😊😅
Nice update video Thom.
I live in Valkenburg, Lb and there are two points I would like to make:
1) Since the start of the LIMAX service between Aachen and Liège on 30 June, Arriva's scheduling has been appalling. In fact we are now in the middle of what they call a reset mode with normal service resuming on 3 November. Yeah right!
There are two structural problems affecting this route: The line between Landgraaf (NL) and Herzogenrath (DE) is single track. In addition, Aachen Hbf is a through station with no terminus bays for trains such as the LIMAX to use. These two factors have resulted in long delays and cancellations.
As you said, the OV Chipkaart can't be used south of Eijsden (NL). When I travel from Valkenburg to Liège I use my OV Chipkaart between Valkenburg and Maastricht. The statutory change of crew from Dutch to Belgian at Maastricht allows enough time to alight there and check out with my OV Chipkaart. I can then resume my journey on the same train using the ticket from Masstricht to Liège on my NMBS/SNCB app. (Why can't Arriva place the check-in/check-out facilities on the trains just like Arriva buses?)
One sad aspect of this new service is that one Arriva train is stabled in Liège overnight in preparation for the following day's first service. Unfortunately, the vandals there have already spray painted one of our pristine Arriva trains. It's very sad to see this has taken place.
2) I use an app, thanks to 'Man in Seat 61' where I can buy the €49 (soon to be €58) Deutschlandticket. It would be nice if I could use it as far as Heerlen when returning to NL rather than Herzogenrath. After all, travellers can use it as far as Venlo (NL) when returning from Germany.
(Why can't Arriva place the check-in/check-out facilities on the trains just like Arriva buses?)
two reasons, stopping at stations will be far longer, and it will be more expensive.
The ticketing situation is so frustrating. You shouldn’t have to leave the train, that’s crazy.
@@daanwolters3751 Why? Passengers can check in and check out while the train is in motion. DB uses this system on some regional trains and I have seen it on other carriers here in NL?
Why more expensive? If it works on the buses it can work on the trains.
@@Eurobazz because if passengers can check in while it is in motion, they can quickly check in when they see the tickets guy and skip the fare.
With busses the driver sees if you check in, by trains that does not happen. Also people will want to check in while getting inside the train leading to queues, delaying the trains.
Because you need more machines, as you will need 2 per each train door. Which is far more than if you just put them on the station, and more machines means more costs. With busses it is the opposite, since you only need 2 or 3 per bus, and a bus stops easily at far more places than a train does.
Busses and trains are quite different beasts after all, especially regarding punctuality
it‘s kinda cool how the e320 and the ICE 3neo are a very similar build meaning in Amsterdam you now kinda have the same train in blue-yellow and then in white-red
I would love to see a photo of the two lined up
The e320 is the BR class 374 right? They are basically the same train, the 374 is a Siemens Velaro built to UK loading gauge, even though as far as I know UK loading gauge isn't required on the HS1 route between the eurotunnel and St Pancras, the route was designed to allow TGVs to operate on it which are a bit bigger than the smol UK loading gauge. Eurostar ordered their trains in UK loading gauge because they had plans to run services deeper into the UK
@@mrvwbug4423 Actually the Eurostar ones arent built to the UK loading gauge, just the same as the other Velaros around Europe. Only the older TGV derived class 373 is built to British loading gauge as it had to go over British mainlines before the completion of HS1, which is built to French standards.
I have watched that first video so many times, please keep making those.
Thank you so much!!
I know very little about railroading in Europe. That's a shame because, thanks to your excellent coverage, I can see that service is far more frequent, more progressive, and faster. The US has a lot of catching up to do, for sure. Still, the current picture in the Netherlands seems confusing to someone from another continent. Maybe like having Amtrak and a half dozen Brightlines competing for the same end points, vying for contracts, and so on? Hopefully, Americans will learn the convenience of good rail transit.
I guess that's why NMBS were testing their own TRAXX's and I11 coaches in Rotterdam
Yes!
I was in Aachen-Maastricht-Liege region in June and yeah, that regional express is badly needed. It was fun catching some random S-trains and regular trains and buses there, but it was nice as a sightseeing opportunity only (although the old rolling stock on the line between Liege and Maastricht is definitely interesting)
It’s a fun area to train spot
It's interesting comparing US and European train travel how most services don't last more than a single overnight-track gauge changing eastern Europe probably is a main factor why there are no direct trains from Paris to Istanbul (at that, the California Zephyr would still probably be longer)
Well the route from Paris to Istanbul goes through the Balkans and the railways in the Balkans are in an abhorent state. Serbia is improving with a Chinese consortium building a new line from Belgrade to Budapest up north in Hungary. And I believe Chinas plan is to have a solidly built line for 160-200km/h and electric all the way from Budapest and down to Athens since the Chinese state owns a port in the area and wants to have an easy flow of freight traffic between it and the rest of Europe. But until such a line is completed I wouldn't count on anything. Plus the fact that Serbia is neither an EU or Schengen member (and is currently in strong ties with both Russia and China) complicates this further.
You need to be more specific with your gauge changing reference with regard to eastern Europe. Do you mean Ukraine and Belarus? Other countries use the 1,435mm standard gauge.
Good timing on this video, now that I'm in the NL I wanted to understand more about the rail network here.
Apropo Nightjet: I arrived from Vienna just after the floods in Austria last month, my train was only the second one after they'd started running again. We were stopped for 4,5 hours (!) in Nurnberg. I wonder if it was a one-off (the previous day the train was on time). It was cheap, but I'm definitely not doing it again.
It was because of the floods, you’re pretty lucky it was even running. I’d give them another chance someday.
@@Thom-TRA I was watching the OBB info closely and since I was moving for work, I simply had to find a way to get there on short notice. Plane tickets are expensive Budapest-->Netherlands and would've cost a fortune for like the next day, so this train was the least bad option.
Yeah, I would try them again, but definitely not the six-pack of passengers in one cabin 😫😆
Great Video! I really hope Eurostar don’t make this decision
Jeej, we get in the near future a train, most likely a two sets ICNG, Groningen - Brussels, one set will stay at Lelystad. Flix train most likely wanted to couple their German route to the Dutch one, however they choose to expand in Germany.
I am looking for my Erasmus+ internship, and I hope I would go there by an international train. I never rode one before. As a man from Northeast Asia, having an international trip on a train feels like a privilege sometimes.
Definitely look into the Eurail pass or one of the other great options. You won’t regret it!
Fascinating info for this American. Given that you live in the DC area, I have a book recommendation, Pennsy Electric Years; weittenby a gnet who worked the last 10 years of th PRR in their electris section. In addition to covering all the locomotives and MUs, he covers the mainte ance headaches the electric lines faced. A most interesting book.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Well, it sucks how our railway manager prorail is handling our rail network as you said they will let that speed reduction to 80 stand until 2026 thats unacceptable ill hope sometime that they will get a huge kick on there ass and hoping that they finally realise that one of the most important line needs some maintenance
I think part of it is they can’t do as many werkzaamheden on it because the trains keep running over it
@@Thom-TRAand another part is that they are run by dinosaurs and are a stubborn remnant of bureaucracy 😂
@@Thom-TRA That has never stopped prorail before
It would be only a delay of 5-6 min. for the Eurostar between Amsterdam and Brussels ...
One of the places I look for European railway news (besides your videos) is "The Man in Seat 61". His web site has a news link which is up to date on the latest European Railway news. One of the stories regarding Belgium you missed was -
"New direct non-high-speed Paris-Brussels trains: A new Belgian Railways EuroCity service of 3 trains a day in each direction will be introduced over the classic route between Brussels & Paris via Mons, similar to that provided for the Olympics in July-September this year. This is good news for Interrail & Eurail passholders, at last an inexpensive alternative to the busy Eurostar-formerly-Thalys high-speed trains with their hefty reservation fees."
This of course sounds like the old days before Thalys/Eurostar started running. These trains will be much cheaper than the high priced Eurostar trains and will run over lower speed conventional lines.
Yeah and thats great. The railways can really benefit from lower budget options, especially as many struggle with the cost of living.
It‘s not directly linked to the NL though, which this video was restricted to.
DB at Innotrans presenting more details on the ICEL would have been a possible aspect to talk about, but I guess it‘s not really service related, so might as well not.
Yeah, I’m really happy to see the slow intercity train. I think there should always be a slower option on major connections like that.
Well almost like old days. Before HS trains the Etoile du Nord TEE would do Amsterdam-Paris Gare du Nord in like 4h20min. So something like 2 hours for Brussels to Paris.
This train does Brussels-Paris in 3 hours. Why would the current Eurocity need 45-60 minutes longer for the route ..?
But it is definitely a good addition, if it will be continued .
Thom I recently saw a vlog which said Brightline is considering high speed service between Los Angeles and Las Vegas
Not just considering, it’s already under construction!
Like Thom said its already being built. Its called Brightline west and is a high speed line built in the median of a highway between Las Vegas and Rancho Cucamonga, a suburb about 60km from downtown LA. (Stupid end of the line I know). The line wont really be high speed much though, since the windy nature of the highway in several cases limits speeds to 200km/h or even just 120km/h in places like over the mountain pass into Greater Los Angeles.
The service is gonna use a fleet of Siemens Velaro Novo high speed trains, becoming the launch customer of this new type if everything goes according to plan.
I dont think Eurostar will pull out of the Netherlands, just a hunch. Thanks Thom.
I think they’re bluffing too
It’s really fun when you can make a video assuming that your audience knows a lot about trains already. You can use sophisticated terms and use specialized terms that only rail fans know
I don’t think I really do that here tho
@@Thom-TRA you got as close as you could get with mentioning the city names and train services
@@Thom-TRAno worries Thom, you really didn't 👍
Encountered a major problem with Arriva Heerlen last weekend. They cancelled trains because there were no drivers. This wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't have a connection to make from Aachen. Pay you employees, Dutch train companies! NS has been doing this lately as well.
And it’s only Arriva limburg, Arriva in other parts of the country doesn’t have this problem as much.
There is some 'misinformation' in this video. It is regarding the speed restrictions. The restrictions (TSB's) are only in place on 1/3rd of the HSL-Zuid north section between Rotterdam and Schiphol. The entire Rotterdam to Antwerpen Centraal is still fully 300 km/h capable and is still in great shape. The speed on the 1/3rd of the northern section will probably be back at 120 km/h by the beginning of next year.
A speed restriction is a speed restriction. I never said the whole line is slow. But 1/3rd at 80km/h is still a problem. Even 120 is slower than the conventional tracks.
Don’t use the word “misinformation” so carelessly. Misinformation is a real problem and by misusing it you weaken the meaning of it.
@@Thom-TRA I sincerely apologise for my comment. I am reading comments from people who don't know a lot about HSL-Zuid and think that the entire line has these kinds of construction faults. It would have been a bit better if it included that detail.
I understood from the video that this high-speed line had a speed restriction on only one segment. FYI
@@Thom-TRA At the Prorail website I read that, with the 80kmh speed limitations at the bridges, the IC Direct to Brussels would have only 3 minute delay and Thalys/Eurostar 5-6 minutes. Would Eurostar really want to step out and let in inevital competitors in for a lousy (temporary) 5 minutes on what they describe as a potential growth corridor ?🤔🤔
This shows also that cities can be too close for proper High Speeds ( and this counts also for Antwerp-Brussels).
I find it actually ridiculous that NS charge ICDirect as a High Speed premium price corridor. With the ICNG they finally arranged with NMBS that they could skip commuter stations like Mechelen and stop only in Antwerp. That will be 211km in 2h5min and they charge that as 'High Speed Premium' ! A regular intercity does a similar distance of Groningen-Amsterdam, with 4 stops, in 1h59. That is at a track speed of 140kmh.
IC Direct should not count as a HS journey , really..
Like the reworking of the old British Rail logo on the side of the Arriva - But WHY..?? 🤔🤣
It’s the lion from the Limburg flag
mhm, so flixtrain has canceled its trips to netherlands ?
Yes, very randomly
Man the Eurostar situation is frustrating. Though also having to clear border checks before the UK is also awful and means you cant use London bound departures to destinations before the border, despite there only being 1 stop in the UK. Its stupid to not have the border controls in the UK at St Pancras. The cracks on the high speed line are awful too, the Netherlands really should put more care into their rail network, theyre in the state now that Danish railways were in 15-20 years ago!
It does make some sense. If you'd require a whole Eurostar train to go through border checks upon arrival, the lines would probably be huge, making planning connections upon arrival nearly impossible
@@jlust6660 Unless you make a big enough facility with enough capacity. I mean its not an issue for the airports so why should it be for St Pancras station or the British government? Like theres already some available land that could be used, like a lawn and parking lot next to the station by the British library which could be used, at least partially for border controls.
@@drdewott9154 This would be annoying seeing as with an hourly service for example, you'd have a huge line for like 10 minutes every hour, while the border personnel would have little to do the rest of the time. With checks on departures passengers don't all arrive at the same time, so you have a more constant stream. It works in airports because they also have a more constant stream of international passengers, but even then, seats in the back of large airplanes are notorious for resulting in huge waiting times at passport control. That's also the reason why many airports see USA preclearance facilities as a pretty big competitive advantage. Besides, train connections are way shorter than plane connections, partly for this reason.
@@jlust6660 But the Eurostar runs more often than once per hour. And with border facilities WITHIN the UK that removes a massive logistical hurdle that means more operators can open up diferent routes and mean more frequent departures and arrivals in and out of the station. If such a control facility can facilitate a full 400m train's load every 10 or 15 minutes, then thats more than adequate!
@@drdewott9154 I seriously doubt that making border facilities that can handle efficiently handle 400m trains every 15 minutes is going to be trivial, but oh well. Besides I don't think the UK is ever going to agree with having all border checks on one side of the channel only
One aspect regarding Eurostar and the NL (let‘s be honest, limiting the train to Rotterdam for a while might make sense, but having Brussels or Antwerp as terminus really does not) is that the main thing limiting them from connecting Brussels and London to other destinations in France (including Barcelona and Switzerland) is missing train stock, which this move would free up. As an SNCF subsidiary it will be relatively easy for them to get permissions in France (poor Flixtrain, poor customers); and I am sure they will just do what is projected to bring them the most profit, as usual.
The artificial scarcity that Eurostar creates is infuriating
The international terminal in Rotterdam is pretty small though, so it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to board many passengers on the London bound services from there. The Brussels terminal is much bigger and was actually designed to be a terminus originally, as opposed to Rotterdam
We have been Flixed
Ouch
I enjoyed the Nightjet service from Amsterdam Centraal to Basel, it would have been perfect if they were using the newer rolling stock.
Maybe someday!
A question, I'm not from Europe so pls don't judge. Are there trains between Paris and Barcelona? I read an article quite a while back saying there were none and I'm curious hpw the situation has changed.
Yes, there are high speed trains from Paris to Barcelona, and from Lyon to Madrid.
Great video
I appreciate it!
@@Thom-TRA your welcome
I am not concerned with Eurostar throwing a tantrum. Access for wheelchairs to those trains is appalling. I shall be much happier on the ICNG. And I have no interest in going back to the UK.
Eurostar is not leaving, they are bluffing, they will not abandon their most profitable route.
They even rode their trains from london to amsterdam and back empty, just because of the demand for the route (when the border checks could not be done).
And paris to amsterdam route is their most profitable route, no way they are abandoning those. Especially since the only thing stopping other trains from running, is limited capacity in brussels.
I think they’re bluffing too, but that doesn’t mean the concerns aren’t serious. The current situation is a pain.
@@Thom-TRA Yet why now? The speed restriction is being raised to 120, and the main reason why it is not being fixed sooner is Eurostar itself (or rather having to compensate them for closing the line temporarily).
But most importantly Eurostar could only board 250 passengers in Amsterdam to london, on the eve that it increases to 600, they threaten to leave?
To get the politicians uncomfortable
@@Thom-TRA the current pvv ministers who are responsible for this are as anti-train and pro-airline/cars as possible (for the netherlands, even the vvd is les pro-car/airplane).
They really could not have any worse timing for this. Those parties do not dare to kick eurostar out themselves, but would be happy to see it go. Especially since eurostar is mostly known for price gauging in the netherlands.
@@melaniedrogr951Eurostar encounters the same reluctance in Germany because it is mainly French and Germans don't see much financial benefits they can get out by using those services
Going through AMS is still a ****shit according to a Dutch guy I meet st security. That includes the Schengen zone flight. Immigration is awful. Heathrow is way better!
Yeah it’s super crowded
Thanks 😊
You're welcome!