Biggest factor is the ratio. Fluid ratio and actual lever ratio. Too much "slop" is possibly down to how far the master cylinder bore the hole from the reserviour is. A lot of older master cylinder levers had an adjuster screw to adjust preload on the lever which would help (this is not the same as an adjustable lever) - but adjust too far and the piston blocks the hole and the brakes have no way to allow in fluid to take up the movement for brake pad wear. Larger bore master cylinder is likely to give reduced lever travel, but likely less feel at the brakes. Go too far and you will get very dead feeling brakes. Smaller bore master cylinder will give more lever travel but sharper brakes - possibly excessively so! Last year I tried a fairly small bore Brembo master cylinder on one of my bikes (single 4 piston front caliper) - Slightly more lever travel, loads of feel but brakes were so sharp that the bike felt like it would stand on its nose with no effort. I went back to the larger bore standard master cylinder after a 20 mile round trip as I suspect I would have locked the front wheel instantly if I needed to do an emergency stop Other issues will include how rigid the master cylinder is, and how the lever moves on the head of the piston (ie, the lever end is moving in a slight curve, which can land up pushing the piston sideways a touch).
People say brakes suck or "feel better" but rarely describe the reason and cause. Low mechanical gain (feels "weak") is fine. It gives better control and less chance of locking. Very few are spongy and nonlinear. I've almost never seen people cover the piston ratios.
It's pretty common for OEMs to under size the MC for better braking power at the cost of lever feel. Slop and manufacturing quality aside, it's all about the ratio between MC and Caliper pistons and you can dial it in per your preference. I had a high quality Brembo 17mm MC on my bike - very powerful but lever felt like crap. Was distracting and terrible at the track. I replaced it with a 19mm Brembo master and it's now totally the way I like it. Way easier to modulate. Tl;Dr: it's all about MC piston size
That Royal Enfield looks like its going to be a joy to add/remove bits from to personalize or improve it, make it your own unique bike, looks fantastic as is though.
I replaced my stock axial nissin master cylinder to a brembo RCS19 radial master cylinder. What a world of difference. The modulation and feedback from the brembo compared to stock nissin is like heaven and earth
My stock rear brake works that way, progressive pressure feel. When cold it starts out more on/off but as soon as it warms up, it's soft. That's an indicator of air in the system. The air expands as the heat generated by the disc dragging heats up the fluid. In all likelihood, that's is what was happening with the Amazon lever. To get all the air out, you my need to disconnect the caliper from the fork and hang from wire at height above the master cylinder with right size block inserted on pucks to get all the air out. Be sure that bleeder screw is highest when hanging. Air in a fluid doesn't move downward without lots of fluid flow. It will move upward no problem.
Thank you for this video; very well done!!! So many people are so concerned with "How do I make this bike go faster?" yet ignore the brakes...until they NEEDED them in an emergency. (By that time, it's too late.) I've ridden for 20 motorcycles for years, and have driven cars for over 35; my experience has been that a vehicle's brakes have gotten me out of trouble more than the accelerator ever did.
the slack is actually the push point of the lever. i had bought one and it was too short so i was closing on my fingers to actually stop. i then had a spare lever and it did the job brilliantly.
Hi yammie noob, last year I contacted the manufacturer in China about the red set you use in your video (also comes in other colours) and their take on the quality was that they were sold to be fit on a bike up to 250cc max. So I use them in 125cc mainly. Your right about the build quality aswell, I always put new nylon nuts on mine as I've seen the originals vibrate off. Great vid. Motorcycle rescuer
Hey, I actually did this a year ago on my vintage motorcycle. I initially didn't do it because it didn't fit my restoration budget but in retrospect huge mistake, I upgraded to a modern radial brake pump, it's a completely different bike 10/10 would do it again
I understand that this is what a lot of people might try without doing a deep dive into what they should do, but the brake effort and feel are all to do with how much brake fluid is displaced by the MC piston. A 15mm piston will not 'push' as much fluid to the calliper as a 20mm piston so the brakes won't feel as responsive, however, they should feel more 'progressive' than the bigger piston MC, also the Amazon lever clearly had a pushrod (to the MC piston) that either needed adjustment or was to short. It pays to take the time to understand how things work before just diving in and changing stuff.
also they moved the whole assembly down a little on the handlebar which changes the leverage and feel drastically. i moved my clutch lever like maby 1cm further down the handlebar and it's a whole different clutch
I've tried one of those $20 Brembo RCS19 Corsa Corta knock-offs on my 2021 Yamaha R3. Worked well, despite lacking the free-play adjustability and lever ratio found on the original one. The lever felt too hard, or wooden (becuase the 19mm piston was too big for the stock calipers) but brake pressure modulation was better than the stock mc. Sold it and bought to a RacingBoy (RCB) forged 14mm radial mc, way better hardware despite only costing around $60. They also offer a 17mm titanium version, but those are harder to come by and cost a bit more.
I have a BREMBO RCS 19 CORTA CORSA on my RS660...i had that installed at the 600 mile service and i will NEVER regret it!!! WAAAAYYY ahead of you guys....
One of the first mods on my DRZ sm was swapping out the OEM master for a road racing Brembo and a braided line. Not only does it have the adjustable lever. The sensitivity ratio is adjustable for track conditions. It's a remote reservoir type but I just use a short tube for the fluid. A little tricky to mount with the hand guards but it works great. Easy one finger hard stops. 👍 I usually replace the old masters for a new upgraded OEM units on my the sport bikes too. Sometimes it's a mix of manufacturers. Suzuki parts on a Honda or whatever. Actually, my RG powered Honda NSR mc21 has a Kawasaki radial master on Suzuki forks on after market clip-ons. I should make a list to remember what is made by which manufacturer 😁
I don’t believe the poor performance is down necessarily to poor quality of the MC. In decades past in India the front brake was called the “emergency brake”. On an Enfield Bullet the need to use it meant you had an emergency. I know this from experience. I wonder if a weaker front brake is actually deliberate. However, to establish the reason for the difference you need to know the MC bore and the lever to piston ratio. Only then can you establish whether quality or design. Better quality may improve feel but not performance as such and what you got from your Amazon item.
The Amazon master cylinder I bought to replace the original on my 125 was way worse, it felt so spongy! Rebuilt the original and now it's so much better
I notice you didn't cover the fit and finish on that bike. The Madura had to be installed much further to the left of the right handle bar switch mount, roughly twice as far. This would place your fingers further outboard on the lever, giving greater mechanical advantage and feel. That wouldn't change the initial sponginess and delay you were experiencing on the Amazon one, but should have been pointed out. The Madura has some clearance issues and on some bikes with clip-on style handle bars, you might not have the room.
yeah moving the whole lever assembly slightly further down the bar changes the feel a lot. i just did that shit with my clutch and hell even having the lever not sit on level made a whole lot of difference.
I've only found one brand of budget levers that I have liked and felt like they were worth anything. They are a little bit more than the super cheap typical Amazon levers but only about $10 more. The company is called Ride It. I ran them on my R3 for 6 years and they were fine. I tossed a set on my MT-07 and the quality and feel is still there. They are definitely not high end levers and not on par with something like CRG but are definitely quality for the price and none of the typical Amazon lever short falls line sloppy fit and a lot of take-up.
@@BikingVikingHH that stupid little thing was the most fun track bike I have owned in the 44 years I have been riding. Slow as a snail in a straight line but an absolute giggle fest in the corners.
The actual machining of the lever and the lever bolt itself could have been your initial problem? Would it not be better to just swap it all out with any modem sport bike components ? Wonder what a street fighter build would look like ? Whole front end swap !
Oh you really like the product that you are trying to sell? Nice! That sounds real convenient for you. Im glad the missing pieces and leaking didnt bother you. I like your channel. Not super psyched about this vid.
i don't even like the channel because the dude is so fucking bias and frankly ignorant. also if you look att the 2 different comparisons you will notice that the shit they try to sell is also moved further down the handlebar meaning it has more leverage. you know i just moved my clutch lever down allot less than they moved that brake lever and my clutch feel is night and day difference. it don't take much to change the leverage you got on your levers and if you compare shit you need to make sure both comparisons are comparable
The most important thing when you buy the cheap Amazon or ebay Master cylinders is make sure that your matching the correct piston size in the inside if you're putting on a master cylinder that has a smaller piston it's not going to pump the fluid as good as the original with that being said I have used many of the eBay Master cylinders and they work fine and 90% of the time the only thing wrong with the old one is that the brake fluid get gummed up and the Piston gets corrosion or blockage in the inside especially on the old Honda style or Suzuki ones that have the screw type plunger
See the misconception here is the more money you pay the better quality you get which is b******* because I guarantee you if you take both of those Master cylinders apart you ain't going to find too much difference what are you telling me they're using high quality o-rings and rubber gaskets please they're buying them from the same place the Amazon people are tell the same s*** to people with Auto parts I am a mechanic and lately you can see the same quality with Auto parts everybody's buying them from Japan and sticking them in their own boxes
As an old head in motorcycling, this is the first thing i replace whenever i get a new bike, both the brake & clutch lever. Rizoma is my go to brand & they're fully adjustable as well.
yes but this is not about the levers, the bigger the diameter on the brake pump piston, the more force you will need to use and it will feel more precise.
@@andrewwasson6153 yes radial pumps give nice feedback. these here are axial though. the largest difference will still come from the change in diameter. it's as if you switched gears.. Adjustable levers however only change the distance between lever and handlebar, nothing else.
@@user-jt6nw6wm5q the positioning of the lever changes leverage. depending on where your lever is on your bike your leverage and pressure output changes. moving my clutch lever just a hair down the handlebar changed the clutch feel dramatically. before people go out and buy new pumps and shit they should buy new levers and try moving the assembly down the handle bar a little.
More explanation that it not the levers as such, or manufacturer but brake piston ratio or size selection. Were the 2 examples the same piston size as the EMO brake master cylinder?.
its the piston diameter that matters. small is powerfull but moves more. bigger it will feel like your brake pades are made of wood and will take alot of effort but the lever will feel great. this all assumes they are well blead. every master will fall on that spectrum nomatter how mutch you spend on them. just find a diameter that you like the compromise.
I’m glad you reviewed this. When you did the video about Amazon parts and bashed it for the price alone was kinda snobish. You get what you pay for most of the time but it’s good to see what you get for the money rather than trash something because it’s cheap.
Go to a salvage yard and pick up a litre bike master. Actually, any master built to service a twin caliper setup will be a major upgrade over your single rotor setup.
When I built my last harley, I tried all the different master cylinders I could find, and ended up using the smallest used by harley, single disc, on my dual disc front end. I think it's 12 mm, it provides one finger braking and can lock the front brakes, but isn't at all sensitive. Harley definitively does not recommend this, but I've run it more than twenty years with no problem. I'm looking to replace my stock master cylinder on my 78 Triumph to get to or at least closer to the one finger braking I've got in my Harley. I tested my brakes out on a private road, away from traffic, as long as your master cylinder fully functions the brakes with less than half the travel, reducing the bore size will give better braking power and be fully functional. Thanks!
i got Puig on my FZ6N great levers. clutch lever felt like shit but that turned out to be because the Puig lever required me to move down the leaver assembly down a smidge on the handlebar which changed the leverage. now it's perfect. if it don't feel right try moving the whole lever assembly down or upp on the handlebar.
I've been looking at upgrading my master cylinder. I just had to upgrade my brake lever after it broke apart at a traffic light on my way to work. Snapped right off at the pivot point. I had to hold it in place to get it to work, where i left the bike inside of my job for the weekend while Amazon did their thing to get it to me.
Huh, I have been educated, I always wondered what people meant when they talked about break feel so this here video is a crucial video . Both of the bikes I had in the past had that slack and I did crush then a lot . Thanks.
Excellent and very useful video. I doing some mods on an early 90 Honda CB-1 400 and this just saved me a lot of looking around. Some useful comments below as well, thanks guys.
Many of the bikes that come fitted with those bybre's are always fitted with those cheap master cylinder and are quite bad at doing their job and are sometimes the cause of accidents too in India.
They are in orange, red, blue, gold, silver at least. Bought a set of it for a moped from Ali, €25,- for cable clutch and hydrolic brake.. They do fine for 80 km/h..
It is possible that the original master cylinder is defective. Would be worthwhile try a new stock unit to see if that is indeed thr case . I work in a factory and occasionally get bad parts from a supplier.
yeah i would bet the shit was not set up properly to begin with. also the new master was installed further down the handlebar meaning more leverage + required a brake bleed.
That's literally one of the first mods I did while rebuilding the bike I bought. I got a nicer one than these though, my bike already had the Amazon one.
Trying to figure out why spite is using the brake bleeder wrong. You are supposed to pump it with the nipple on the caliper closed which build pressure inside the canister then crack the nipple open which sucks brake fluid in. I mean both ways work but takes a lot longer the way he is doing it.
My Thruxton 1200r's brakes are a little soft. I have to pump the lever to get a solid feel. I changed the levers to adjustable ones and upgraded the pads. Looks like I should also look into a new master cylinder. Thanks for the video.
@@ChrisG1392 Second. If the master can get a solid feel after pumping it a bit then it's a fluid based problem. Bleed for sure, but fluid is cheap, just flush as well.
@@shadyvito yeah change it to be safe but remember this. bike brakes take about 3000 years to bleed. no joke like i thought my super moto i just bought had a totaly blown out rear brake master because i had ben bleeding it for crazy long time. i had given upp and told my boss about it and he just told me to keep on bleeding as it can take extremely long time because the masters on bikes don't move that much fluid. turned out he was right after more bleeding the brakes returned. took me another decade from getting my brakes back to removing the spongy feel. fresh fluid is a good ide because you can get water in the fluid overtime and that reduces performance and can cause brake fade much quicker from heat. so have that in mind when you are changing the fluid. just keep on bleeding that sucker.
I have the Amazon type from Ali express on my moped. I have changed it a bit because of the sloppy feeling. I drilled and tapped the piece pressing the plunger. Now I can remove the sloppy feeling by adjusting the bolt. Works perfect (for a 80km/h limited moped).
no it's not because not all bikes have shit ones to begin with. people just never bother to actually set up the original shit before they swap it out for a new one or even bother to check if it's a air in system problem. i thought my rear brake master was completely toast until my boss told me to keep on bleeding. i had ben bleeding it for very very long but because there ain't much fluid being moved you have to bleed it for a decade before you even get any results. funny thing is that after he told me i decided to try bleed it again and it turned out i was only 5bleeds away from getting my brakes back. took another decade to get the spongy feel out.
The Amazon levers work just fine dude. You gotta put AMERICAN MAPLE syrup in them instead of dot4. It’s very important to use the American maple syrup and not the Cananandian maple syrup cuz the Cananandian syrup doesn’t have any balls.
Just depends on the area, what's shown of Texas and this video looks similar to my area but I can ride an hour away and hit better mountain roads then almost anywhere in Europe and The creator of the video also probably could too. Europeans don't understand the scale and diversity of America. Texas (where this creator lives) is almost as large as the entirety of Europe and just as diverse while Alaska is many times larger.
original and bleed the brakes. need more power? do what they did with the new master and move it further down the handlebar increasing your leverage as you are grabbing the lever further away from the master.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Biggest factor is the ratio. Fluid ratio and actual lever ratio.
Too much "slop" is possibly down to how far the master cylinder bore the hole from the reserviour is. A lot of older master cylinder levers had an adjuster screw to adjust preload on the lever which would help (this is not the same as an adjustable lever) - but adjust too far and the piston blocks the hole and the brakes have no way to allow in fluid to take up the movement for brake pad wear.
Larger bore master cylinder is likely to give reduced lever travel, but likely less feel at the brakes. Go too far and you will get very dead feeling brakes. Smaller bore master cylinder will give more lever travel but sharper brakes - possibly excessively so! Last year I tried a fairly small bore Brembo master cylinder on one of my bikes (single 4 piston front caliper) - Slightly more lever travel, loads of feel but brakes were so sharp that the bike felt like it would stand on its nose with no effort. I went back to the larger bore standard master cylinder after a 20 mile round trip as I suspect I would have locked the front wheel instantly if I needed to do an emergency stop
Other issues will include how rigid the master cylinder is, and how the lever moves on the head of the piston (ie, the lever end is moving in a slight curve, which can land up pushing the piston sideways a touch).
People say brakes suck or "feel better" but rarely describe the reason and cause. Low mechanical gain (feels "weak") is fine. It gives better control and less chance of locking. Very few are spongy and nonlinear. I've almost never seen people cover the piston ratios.
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It's pretty common for OEMs to under size the MC for better braking power at the cost of lever feel. Slop and manufacturing quality aside, it's all about the ratio between MC and Caliper pistons and you can dial it in per your preference. I had a high quality Brembo 17mm MC on my bike - very powerful but lever felt like crap. Was distracting and terrible at the track. I replaced it with a 19mm Brembo master and it's now totally the way I like it. Way easier to modulate. Tl;Dr: it's all about MC piston size
That Royal Enfield looks like its going to be a joy to add/remove bits from to personalize or improve it, make it your own unique bike, looks fantastic as is though.
I replaced my stock axial nissin master cylinder to a brembo RCS19 radial master cylinder. What a world of difference. The modulation and feedback from the brembo compared to stock nissin is like heaven and earth
My stock rear brake works that way, progressive pressure feel. When cold it starts out more on/off but as soon as it warms up, it's soft. That's an indicator of air in the system. The air expands as the heat generated by the disc dragging heats up the fluid. In all likelihood, that's is what was happening with the Amazon lever.
To get all the air out, you my need to disconnect the caliper from the fork and hang from wire at height above the master cylinder with right size block inserted on pucks to get all the air out. Be sure that bleeder screw is highest when hanging. Air in a fluid doesn't move downward without lots of fluid flow. It will move upward no problem.
Thank you for this video; very well done!!!
So many people are so concerned with "How do I make this bike go faster?" yet ignore the brakes...until they NEEDED them in an emergency. (By that time, it's too late.)
I've ridden for 20 motorcycles for years, and have driven cars for over 35; my experience has been that a vehicle's brakes have gotten me out of trouble more than the accelerator ever did.
Those who know how to go fast, realize it's your braking abilities that determines how fast you can go.
Dear algorithm, spite in the thumbnail is a good thing
Obligatory comment for the algorithm
Same
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Club Algo checking in
FTR: For the rithm
Replies to comment about algorithm, simply for the algorithm.
Put on Brembo radial master and never look back👍
Yes do more of these upgrade then review videos👍 Great job Spite👏
the slack is actually the push point of the lever. i had bought one and it was too short so i was closing on my fingers to actually stop. i then had a spare lever and it did the job brilliantly.
Hi yammie noob, last year I contacted the manufacturer in China about the red set you use in your video (also comes in other colours) and their take on the quality was that they were sold to be fit on a bike up to 250cc max. So I use them in 125cc mainly. Your right about the build quality aswell, I always put new nylon nuts on mine as I've seen the originals vibrate off.
Great vid.
Motorcycle rescuer
@@htchd1htchd149 all these cheap ones are made for smaller slower bikes.
If you want quality you have to pay for quality
Hey, I actually did this a year ago on my vintage motorcycle. I initially didn't do it because it didn't fit my restoration budget but in retrospect huge mistake, I upgraded to a modern radial brake pump, it's a completely different bike 10/10 would do it again
I understand that this is what a lot of people might try without doing a deep dive into what they should do, but the brake effort and feel are all to do with how much brake fluid is displaced by the MC piston. A 15mm piston will not 'push' as much fluid to the calliper as a 20mm piston so the brakes won't feel as responsive, however, they should feel more 'progressive' than the bigger piston MC, also the Amazon lever clearly had a pushrod (to the MC piston) that either needed adjustment or was to short. It pays to take the time to understand how things work before just diving in and changing stuff.
Well said.
also they moved the whole assembly down a little on the handlebar which changes the leverage and feel drastically. i moved my clutch lever like maby 1cm further down the handlebar and it's a whole different clutch
I've tried one of those $20 Brembo RCS19 Corsa Corta knock-offs on my 2021 Yamaha R3. Worked well, despite lacking the free-play adjustability and lever ratio found on the original one. The lever felt too hard, or wooden (becuase the 19mm piston was too big for the stock calipers) but brake pressure modulation was better than the stock mc. Sold it and bought to a RacingBoy (RCB) forged 14mm radial mc, way better hardware despite only costing around $60. They also offer a 17mm titanium version, but those are harder to come by and cost a bit more.
I have a BREMBO RCS 19 CORTA CORSA on my RS660...i had that installed at the 600 mile service and i will NEVER regret it!!! WAAAAYYY ahead of you guys....
One of the first mods on my DRZ sm was swapping out the OEM master for a road racing Brembo and a braided line.
Not only does it have the adjustable lever. The sensitivity ratio is adjustable for track conditions.
It's a remote reservoir type but I just use a short tube for the fluid.
A little tricky to mount with the hand guards but it works great.
Easy one finger hard stops.
👍
I usually replace the old masters for a new upgraded OEM units on my the sport bikes too.
Sometimes it's a mix of manufacturers. Suzuki parts on a Honda or whatever.
Actually, my RG powered Honda NSR mc21 has a Kawasaki radial master on Suzuki forks on after market clip-ons. I should make a list to remember what is made by which manufacturer 😁
I got levers for my track motorcycle with my rear sets Hot Bodies. They’re a good lever and the adjustability really helps.
Spite as always, spot on analysis of front break.
I don’t believe the poor performance is down necessarily to poor quality of the MC. In decades past in India the front brake was called the “emergency brake”. On an Enfield Bullet the need to use it meant you had an emergency. I know this from experience. I wonder if a weaker front brake is actually deliberate. However, to establish the reason for the difference you need to know the MC bore and the lever to piston ratio. Only then can you establish whether quality or design. Better quality may improve feel but not performance as such and what you got from your Amazon item.
The Amazon master cylinder I bought to replace the original on my 125 was way worse, it felt so spongy! Rebuilt the original and now it's so much better
Loving all the videos keep up the awesome work I learn every time I watch.
I notice you didn't cover the fit and finish on that bike. The Madura had to be installed much further to the left of the right handle bar switch mount, roughly twice as far. This would place your fingers further outboard on the lever, giving greater mechanical advantage and feel. That wouldn't change the initial sponginess and delay you were experiencing on the Amazon one, but should have been pointed out. The Madura has some clearance issues and on some bikes with clip-on style handle bars, you might not have the room.
yeah moving the whole lever assembly slightly further down the bar changes the feel a lot. i just did that shit with my clutch and hell even having the lever not sit on level made a whole lot of difference.
I'm about 2 years into riding. And I love my Suzuki Boulevard c50t. 1st bike. I'm 40 years old btw. Love your content bro.
I've only found one brand of budget levers that I have liked and felt like they were worth anything. They are a little bit more than the super cheap typical Amazon levers but only about $10 more. The company is called Ride It. I ran them on my R3 for 6 years and they were fine. I tossed a set on my MT-07 and the quality and feel is still there. They are definitely not high end levers and not on par with something like CRG but are definitely quality for the price and none of the typical Amazon lever short falls line sloppy fit and a lot of take-up.
I haven't seen a master cylinder from Ride it?
@@Telecasterland no, just the lever replacement. If I'm doing something that involves master cylinder replacement I'm not going with Amazon anything.
I’ve been using Ride it on multiple bikes for years and they had been great as well
I don’t listen to bike advice from people that ride 300s 😂
@@BikingVikingHH that stupid little thing was the most fun track bike I have owned in the 44 years I have been riding. Slow as a snail in a straight line but an absolute giggle fest in the corners.
I didn't even make it three minutes in... I cannot take the advice of a guy that calls a master cylinder a "lever"
The actual machining of the lever and the lever bolt itself could have been your initial problem? Would it not be better to just swap it all out with any modem sport bike components ? Wonder what a street fighter build would look like ? Whole front end swap !
Oh you really like the product that you are trying to sell? Nice! That sounds real convenient for you. Im glad the missing pieces and leaking didnt bother you.
I like your channel. Not super psyched about this vid.
I was thinking the same thing myself haha.
ITS A PRANK VRO
i don't even like the channel because the dude is so fucking bias and frankly ignorant. also if you look att the 2 different comparisons you will notice that the shit they try to sell is also moved further down the handlebar meaning it has more leverage. you know i just moved my clutch lever down allot less than they moved that brake lever and my clutch feel is night and day difference. it don't take much to change the leverage you got on your levers and if you compare shit you need to make sure both comparisons are comparable
The most important thing when you buy the cheap Amazon or ebay Master cylinders is make sure that your matching the correct piston size in the inside if you're putting on a master cylinder that has a smaller piston it's not going to pump the fluid as good as the original with that being said I have used many of the eBay Master cylinders and they work fine and 90% of the time the only thing wrong with the old one is that the brake fluid get gummed up and the Piston gets corrosion or blockage in the inside especially on the old Honda style or Suzuki ones that have the screw type plunger
You say "as good". Quality matters, but the size will dictate me mechanical advantage, which is a compromise between throw and effort.
See the misconception here is the more money you pay the better quality you get which is b******* because I guarantee you if you take both of those Master cylinders apart you ain't going to find too much difference what are you telling me they're using high quality o-rings and rubber gaskets please they're buying them from the same place the Amazon people are tell the same s*** to people with Auto parts I am a mechanic and lately you can see the same quality with Auto parts everybody's buying them from Japan and sticking them in their own boxes
As an old head in motorcycling, this is the first thing i replace whenever i get a new bike, both the brake & clutch lever. Rizoma is my go to brand & they're fully adjustable as well.
yes but this is not about the levers, the bigger the diameter on the brake pump piston, the more force you will need to use and it will feel more precise.
@@user-jt6nw6wm5q going from axial to radial is the larger difference. Adjustable levers add a level of precision.
@@andrewwasson6153 yes radial pumps give nice feedback. these here are axial though. the largest difference will still come from the change in diameter. it's as if you switched gears..
Adjustable levers however only change the distance between lever and handlebar, nothing else.
@@user-jt6nw6wm5q the positioning of the lever changes leverage. depending on where your lever is on your bike your leverage and pressure output changes. moving my clutch lever just a hair down the handlebar changed the clutch feel dramatically. before people go out and buy new pumps and shit they should buy new levers and try moving the assembly down the handle bar a little.
Hey! I put that red lever on my dirt bike! I love it and I actually used it to turn my running light into a brake light
More explanation that it not the levers as such, or manufacturer but brake piston ratio or size selection. Were the 2 examples the same piston size as the EMO brake master cylinder?.
the amazon/wish cheap ones are actually illigal in many countries in europe XD
I'd guess ilegal in the US too. Not DOT approved.
its the piston diameter that matters. small is powerfull but moves more. bigger it will feel like your brake pades are made of wood and will take alot of effort but the lever will feel great. this all assumes they are well blead. every master will fall on that spectrum nomatter how mutch you spend on them. just find a diameter that you like the compromise.
I’m glad you reviewed this. When you did the video about Amazon parts and bashed it for the price alone was kinda snobish. You get what you pay for most of the time but it’s good to see what you get for the money rather than trash something because it’s cheap.
Spite dropping another knowledge bomb for all of squidkind
Nothing lets you push a bike harder than confidence inspiring brakes.
I feel like Spite is the only person that says "man alive", but after all the Yammienoob content, I started to say it a little bit. So thanks Spite
Hi yam! Just bought my first "big bike" an A-1 Aprilia sx125 i've been looking to ride for a long time so thanks for the tips and tricks!
I sometimes give you guys a hard time, but I had to rewind the “reveal your secrets” 🤣🤣🤣 thank you for that
I just knew poppa slept in the garage
Go to a salvage yard and pick up a litre bike master. Actually, any master built to service a twin caliper setup will be a major upgrade over your single rotor setup.
When I built my last harley, I tried all the different master cylinders I could find, and ended up using the smallest used by harley, single disc, on my dual disc front end. I think it's 12 mm, it provides one finger braking and can lock the front brakes, but isn't at all sensitive. Harley definitively does not recommend this, but I've run it more than twenty years with no problem. I'm looking to replace my stock master cylinder on my 78 Triumph to get to or at least closer to the one finger braking I've got in my Harley. I tested my brakes out on a private road, away from traffic, as long as your master cylinder fully functions the brakes with less than half the travel, reducing the bore size will give better braking power and be fully functional. Thanks!
We get it mate, you like harleys
Not all china levers are the same, had one great set and a shite set as well, roughly same price
Not the Brembo RCS15 master cylinder replacement and Brembo Sinter pads I mentioned. 2 weeks ago. But so much better price
I was actually mid-installation of my first aftermarket levers (Puig Levers 3.0) on my FZ1 when you guys uploaded this!
i got Puig on my FZ6N great levers. clutch lever felt like shit but that turned out to be because the Puig lever required me to move down the leaver assembly down a smidge on the handlebar which changed the leverage. now it's perfect. if it don't feel right try moving the whole lever assembly down or upp on the handlebar.
Stink. No link to shop and you have to become a member to get discount? surely the monthly fee would more than triple the discount over a year?
I've been looking at upgrading my master cylinder. I just had to upgrade my brake lever after it broke apart at a traffic light on my way to work. Snapped right off at the pivot point. I had to hold it in place to get it to work, where i left the bike inside of my job for the weekend while Amazon did their thing to get it to me.
thing he forgot to say was that the magura part costs almost 7 times as much so it should feel better
He mentions it's $120 at the end.
@@therealfakecaptain7978 not a high price to feel better stopping.
Huh, I have been educated, I always wondered what people meant when they talked about break feel so this here video is a crucial video . Both of the bikes I had in the past had that slack and I did crush then a lot . Thanks.
i installed the exact ones on my xj cafe was a def upgrade from the 80,s set up.. was done as experiment and kept them on.
Excellent and very useful video. I doing some mods on an early 90 Honda CB-1 400 and this just saved me a lot of looking around.
Some useful comments below as well, thanks guys.
Wait til the yammie team discovers switching to a hydraulic clutch for better clutch control and response.
Many of the bikes that come fitted with those bybre's are always fitted with those cheap master cylinder and are quite bad at doing their job and are sometimes the cause of accidents too in India.
I swear the master cylinder I bought on ebay a few years ago is the same thing as that one from Amazon. Mine was orange.
They are in orange, red, blue, gold, silver at least.
Bought a set of it for a moped from Ali, €25,- for cable clutch and hydrolic brake..
They do fine for 80 km/h..
It is possible that the original master cylinder is defective. Would be worthwhile try a new stock unit to see if that is indeed thr case . I work in a factory and occasionally get bad parts from a supplier.
yeah i would bet the shit was not set up properly to begin with. also the new master was installed further down the handlebar meaning more leverage + required a brake bleed.
That's literally one of the first mods I did while rebuilding the bike I bought. I got a nicer one than these though, my bike already had the Amazon one.
I don't have much to compare it to, but I have always thought that the standard front brake on the RE 650 feels pretty decent.
I'm no moto upgrade guru, not by any stretch of the imagination; but had never heard of anyone upgrading the master cylinder.
I know on my 12 yamaha v star 950 I have to pull the break lever a 1/2 inch before I feel like I'm slowing down.
Actually thats the first mod.
Also, you have to change the bolt of the actual lever, its spongy because of that
From the thumbnail I thought they were comparing kickstands 💀
That interceptor looks sweet!
Trying to figure out why spite is using the brake bleeder wrong. You are supposed to pump it with the nipple on the caliper closed which build pressure inside the canister then crack the nipple open which sucks brake fluid in. I mean both ways work but takes a lot longer the way he is doing it.
Because he likes to worker harder, not smarter!
Alright but no one is mentioning the shirtless guy in the reflection of the mirror on the Intro haha
Manufacturers, on some parts, cost them Pennies. Amazon can sell an improved part even at $20 and still be profitable
Really good video, thanks!! Beautiful bike’
I've got the same bike since a year ago and in my opinion it feels really unstable at highway speeds, however it it really flickable at low speeds.
the better upgrade would be to throw in an radial master cylinder! did it to my gsf1250 and wow!
I needed this video
Well... On my country, the first mod on allmost every recomendation on every bike is Master brake
My Thruxton 1200r's brakes are a little soft. I have to pump the lever to get a solid feel. I changed the levers to adjustable ones and upgraded the pads. Looks like I should also look into a new master cylinder. Thanks for the video.
bleed the brake line
@@ChrisG1392 Second. If the master can get a solid feel after pumping it a bit then it's a fluid based problem. Bleed for sure, but fluid is cheap, just flush as well.
Yes, I also think if you have to pump the lever then you have bubbles in the fluid.
I agree. Going to change the brake fluid this weekend. Thank you.
@@shadyvito yeah change it to be safe but remember this. bike brakes take about 3000 years to bleed. no joke like i thought my super moto i just bought had a totaly blown out rear brake master because i had ben bleeding it for crazy long time. i had given upp and told my boss about it and he just told me to keep on bleeding as it can take extremely long time because the masters on bikes don't move that much fluid. turned out he was right after more bleeding the brakes returned. took me another decade from getting my brakes back to removing the spongy feel. fresh fluid is a good ide because you can get water in the fluid overtime and that reduces performance and can cause brake fade much quicker from heat. so have that in mind when you are changing the fluid. just keep on bleeding that sucker.
Hardly surprising the one where yammie makes money is the best one :)
specially when installing it further down the handlebar increasing the leverage and requiring a brake bleed meaning fresh bleed brakes
Was kinda hoping he would grab that $20 lever with all the grip he could muster going down that road… for science.
I use Magura MT7 pro's on my mountain bike, I love em!
Chow many miles has the bike done at this point?
Pump your brakes kid, that bike's a national treasure.
You know, for people in India, maybe.
Feed the algo monster
Lol, thats a mod i have been interested in for ages.
Mine literally just went out yesterday lmao
The more I see of that Royal Enfield, the more it grows on me 🤔
ACTUALLY - I bought one of those and it would not pump the front brakes. I put the OEM one back on and it works. You get what you pay for.
Must stay for whole video to improve the algorithm
Lol -'Product we sell is much much better', go figure
I have the Amazon type from Ali express on my moped.
I have changed it a bit because of the sloppy feeling.
I drilled and tapped the piece pressing the plunger.
Now I can remove the sloppy feeling by adjusting the bolt.
Works perfect (for a 80km/h limited moped).
Fellow moped rider, hello!
Good ol moped
@@IosuamacaMhadaidh hello!
Watch my channel to see a part of my collection!
I have a few of them since my 16th, so for 25 years now...
I NEEEEEED that brake bleed tool. link please!
"The one mod you didn't do to your bike"
Bruh that's one of the first mods someone should make, I know it is for me lol
no it's not because not all bikes have shit ones to begin with. people just never bother to actually set up the original shit before they swap it out for a new one or even bother to check if it's a air in system problem. i thought my rear brake master was completely toast until my boss told me to keep on bleeding. i had ben bleeding it for very very long but because there ain't much fluid being moved you have to bleed it for a decade before you even get any results. funny thing is that after he told me i decided to try bleed it again and it turned out i was only 5bleeds away from getting my brakes back. took another decade to get the spongy feel out.
Dudes… are you talking about levers or Master cyclinders or both?
they talking about nothing really.
Where is the link to the magura? I didn't see that one on their website.
The Amazon levers work just fine dude. You gotta put AMERICAN MAPLE syrup in them instead of dot4. It’s very important to use the American maple syrup and not the Cananandian maple syrup cuz the Cananandian syrup doesn’t have any balls.
Whatever you say, cool guy 🤔
what do you recommend for Triumph bobber single disc ?
I feel kinda sorry for the murrican folks. The „twisty“ your riding is basicly a straight road where im from.
Really location dependent in the U.S. They're in Texas so I don't expect them to have mountain twisties.
we have better roads than wherever you're from. less traffic, higher speeds, better scenery, more space, and the most variety.
Just depends on the area, what's shown of Texas and this video looks similar to my area but I can ride an hour away and hit better mountain roads then almost anywhere in Europe and The creator of the video also probably could too.
Europeans don't understand the scale and diversity of America. Texas (where this creator lives) is almost as large as the entirety of Europe and just as diverse while Alaska is many times larger.
Cahaba road in Alabama. So fun
yeah lmao, but don't they have mountain roads too
Doesn't matter which one works best. You gotta go with what LOOKS best. C'mon. You know that.
I bought two brakes from Amazon and both had paint in them. Is that bad?
I saw their's had paint too.
Sounds like a great fix. What would this do to the 3 year warranty.
Unless you are tinkering with the brakes itself you should be fine I think.
What gloves are you rocking in this video?
but what brand would you put on your motorcycle if you had to?
original and bleed the brakes. need more power? do what they did with the new master and move it further down the handlebar increasing your leverage as you are grabbing the lever further away from the master.
I love the performance mod videos!
The Amazon lever probably only felt decent cause the stock Enfield one was THAT BAD.