To be fair, this is exactly what Microsoft said back then. Not the fault of the person making the video. More the fault of Microsoft not being consistent on ANYTHING, not even on their announcements about consistency!
@@pharoah327 there is some who claim that MS never actually said this officially, it was a myth spread by one or two prominent people and the media ran with it. At least that's what I heard recently, I was never motivated enough to check.
The main problem, from a developer's POV is that Windows has THREE different systems in it: 1. Classic Win32 and .Net Forms (classic desktop apps) 2. .NET WFP (modern desktop apps) 3. Win RT (aka UWP - mobile apps that can run on desktops) Classic Win32 is the part that looks like Win7 and earlier. Some of the visuals have been upgraded, but it's still mostly that old style. Things like the control panel and the file explorer are written using this. It uses GDI+ and so can't handle things like complex animation or composition - so no visual effects or translucent layering. Technically, you CAN do it - but it's a lot of work. WPF is a wholly independent system that uses DirectX as its core for visuals. It still uses Win32 for low level stuff like file access and networking, but can do very advanced graphics elegantly and easily. BUT... by default, it looks like.. Win32. Developers have to build their own visuals and so a lot of WPF apps still kinda look like Win7 apps... just with nicer touches and animation. UWP takes WPF one step further by replacing the Win32 core with WinRT. This fixes all the old crufty OS bits that go back to 2000. It also provides a much richer set of user controls and design elements. This is where 'Fluent' lives. BUT... Microsoft originally intended this to be the foundations of Windows 8 and Windows Phone... and the idea was that desktop systems were dead and tablets and phones were the future. As part of that, they also introduced bizarre access restrictions that made sense on phones, like only allowing access to a limited set of folders and a serious permission system that forced users to approve almost every app's access to things like the camera or microphone, but that NO desktop user would live with for long. They also wanted 'apps' like iOS and Android that would run in full screen mode all the time. Again, ok for phone - not for desktops. Worse, they completely misread the developer reaction to this because for some reason, when they designed UWP, they decided not to base it on .Net - which everyone just spent the last ten years learning - deciding instead that the world was going HTML/JS and C++. They had to VERY quickly throw together a .Net front end for WinRT and UWP that started out missing a lot of stuff. I'm sure you can guess how well that went. Microsoft had to backtrack and in Windows 8.1 they started to wind this all back. They accepted that UWP wasn't going to be the first choice of developers for a long time, and that they had to make UWP compatible with .Net. Then they had to bring WPF up to a point where it wasn't quite so far from UWP in concepts and design. They also quietly introduced a way for WPF apps to use UWP controls and code.. and just this year, finally made it official with real documentation on how to use it. Same with a 'composition' layer that will let WPF apps look and feel like UWP apps. Unfortunately, it just makes WPF apps more complicated for minimal benefits. On the other hand, they also reduced many of the restrictions and difficulties in writing UWP apps making it a little easier to write desktop apps using it. They also open sourced pretty much all of this, allowing developers to 'fix' many of these problems. So... long story short.. it's getting better. But there's still a ways to go.
New windows is like a Frankenstein. I even had one of my custumers that upgraded from windows 7 said that he thinks the instalation didnt complete because half of the system looks like the old one.
" I even had one of my custumers that upgraded from windows 7 said that he thinks the instalation didnt complete because half of the system looks like the old one." that has been the case with any windows 'upgrade' ever
I don't buy his argument. Hardware complexity doesn't mean they had to do it this way. Would make more sense to detect if you have a tablet and then using the tablet settings UI. Don't get me wrong I love the weather, money, news apps they work great in the desktop. But the settings should not have dual interfaces on a desktop
I hate Windows 10 because with every update they remove stuff from Control Panel to the buggy Settings app!! Edit: This comment aged like milk, now UWP apps are faster more optimized
@@natefiftystandards it is still included.. but you need to enable it -> www.howtogeek.com/225844/how-to-make-windows-photo-viewer-your-default-image-viewer-on-windows-10/
Microsoft never used to have these problems before. If you ran a Windows 3.1 program in Windows 95, it looked almost indistinguishable from a native Windows 95 program, because the old API elements were updated with the then-current design theme. Same thing with running a Windows 95/98 program in Windows XP -- it looked like you were running a program designed for XP. But Microsoft started breaking their own rules and releasing software which created its own custom UI elements rather than relying on the Windows API to do everything, which made it impossible to provide consistency with future Windows UI designs. And that became pervasive enough across the industry that now they don't even bother to try to provide any consistency, even within the OS's own software! Hardware really has nothing to do with it; the reason why this isn't a problem on Mac OS is that Apple is simply a lot more strict about requiring application developers (including their own!) to follow their OS's design standards. For example that's why the Mac version of Microsoft Office still has the traditional File / Edit / etc. menu bar at the top instead of just the "ribbon" -- because Mac OS requires it.
you answer your own questions, they used the same graphics API to draw the elements they just had to re-skin it. Now it is taking them time because they have to rewrite code, clean it and don't break anything in the process is not just the UI they are remaking, they are changing windows internally. because they want the same windows running on PCs with x86 CPUs and on mobile devices with ARM CPUs, while keeping compatibility. and trying to appeal the casual user, while keeping everything a pro user needs.
Microsoft has a huge problem because they don't have a sensible client API for desktop applications. Win32 (well, now it is called Win64, but that is essentially a port) is 25 years old and its graphics & widgets components (GDI, user32, etc) have not been updated in at least a decade. Its successor is twenty years late and we're still waiting. Every big new API written by Microsoft and announced like the next big thing has been actually a layer on top of the same old Win32 internals, a layer which could fit some scenarios and would fail in others. This has been the case with MFC, Windows Forms, WPF, etc, even with UWP. They are not going to fix this, because Microsoft just doesn't care for the desktop. They have seen the stats and concluded that people are now migrating to the mobile and tablet space for their everyday computer usage, and that's where they want to be. Every new Windows app, widget, API or feature follows now a 'mobile first' mentality. It's insanity. Windows 10 tablets are a niche market (hell, the tablet market itself is stagnant) and the Windows phones are dead. Microsoft's primary target is something imaginary. It just doesn't exist. Meanwhile, desktop users are punished with the full array of mobile 'features', including everything from a default installation of Candy Crush in your desktop to humongous buttons in their interface, not to mention the privacy and telemetry implementation, which mimics a modern smartphone. In my humble opinion, they are doing this because mobile solved the Internet problem, something they had been unsuccessfully fighting since the late 90's. The Internet problem is all about people no longer using desktop apps, and going to some web page instead, something which was perceived to be a huge problem in Microsoft: if people just use the same web apps anywhere, Windows itself has no value to them. There has been a huge migration to the web for app development for more than a decade, and only mobile has been able to disrupt that trend.
Don't forget Windows 10 constantly telling users who don't have a touch screen to "tap here", intead of bothering to add the one extra line of code it would take to instead say "click here". And some of the notifications still pointlessly mimic the mechanic of swiping right to hide then even when you're using a mouse.
Yeah, there are a thousand of little infuriating things that make no sense on a desktop computer (in Windows 10 your computer is no longer a computer, now it is 'your device'). Windows 10 is a mobile first experience, even when nobody runs it in a mobile environment.
Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of the Windows UI. It was not perfect, but the traditional concepts (CUA menus, button bars, dialog boxes, common widgets) had been improved to the point where the experience was pretty solid and consistent between all programs. Everything from there has gone downhill: dynamically changing menus, ribbons, feature removal, web-like interfaces, flat design, mobile on desktop, etc. It is not just a case of change for change's shake, it is objectively a change for the worse. A few days ago I installed Windows 3.1 in a retro machine just to laugh at the primitive software we were using 25 years ago. I installed a few extremely old programs (Wordperfect, Quattro Pro, a very early Photoshop, etc) and I'm not laughing anymore. All the modern features were already there. You had a WYSYWIG interface, advanced formatting with Truetype fonts, and every power user feature you could want including scripting, object embedding, mail merging, grammar checking, etc. As the software didn't have fancy animations on everything, and the computer was vastly overpowered compared to the period correct ones, everything was much, much faster compared to their modern counterparts. To be honest, I missed some few quality of life features we've grown used to, and the underlying technology was really fragile, so I wouldn't recommend anyone to go back to Windows 3.1 for their daily needs, but doing it for a day is an illuminating experience. Software not only has failed to get better in 25 years, it has actually become worse. In some cases, much worse.
it feels like 20 different teams worked on individual parts of Windows and in the end it was all just put together and released without checking the final product.
Thats actually pretty much exactly what happened. It's well known that the culture at Microsoft tends to be a bit toxic between departments, and with no core UI guidelines to follow you end up with a bunch of random ugly apps stuck together and a label saying 'Windows 10' being slapped on it.
They do that, I was a trainee in one of there offices in sweden (Lund skåne) and they worked on the photos app, they said in u.k they worked on the Paint 3d app etc. etc.
Not a fan of those design changes in WIn10. As a power user I want my Control Panel to have everything in a technical list with lots of tweaks, not like in that half-assed settings app.
Uhh.. create a folder somewhere with the name "Control.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}" (it doesn't matter whats in front of the dot; this is just the display name.. the important bit is the ID)…. Than you have your list. At least.. as close as you can get.
Cyrian Genesis LOL you must be one of those business IT drones. Coders and sysadmins in tech companies have long since moved into using Linux systems or Macs for their desktops. Windows is workable, but you literally have to throw a kitchen sink of additional apps, programs, and utilities at it to get close to what you get out of the box with Linux and Macs (bash, built in terminal, gnu utils, python, vim, dev environments, etc), with the Mac getting bods for running pretty much anything that’s available on Windows and Linux getting nods for being able to mirror what you get on servers.
Cyrian Genesis if you work with a lot of computer systems then you should know that Microsoft will cease extended support for Windows 7 in two years. Saying it's the best for professionals is a tad disingenuous.
@Cyrian Genesis i didn't find any bug on win 10, while on win 8 everytime i openes my device i had different errors, even with no third party programs on it. Win 8 as a lot of people said it sucks.
While I'm used to the design inconsistency between different apps by now, having 2 separate apps just for system settings still gets on my nerves. It makes things hard to locate and also makes it more difficult to provide support to a less tech-savvy user over the phone. While I love the OS as a whole especially with the improvements made under the hood I feel that they should really make it a point to streamline the settings interface and to keep improving the consistency between apps.
The device manager looked almost exactly like this way back in Windows 98, when it first appeared. Hell, Windows 10 to this day STILL contains code and hidden icons from Windows... not 95... not 3.11... from Windows 2.0.
They already had / have: In Win 95/98 the 16 bit compatibility layer for 32 bit operating systems, WOW (Windows on Windows) And as of Win 2000 the WOW64 compatibility layer for running 32 bit applications on 64 bit operating systems And as of Win 10 ARM a x86 emulation layer for running 32bit applications on ARM systems
Funny you say that because that is what they are doing. Windows Core OS is that. They have multiple shells ontop of it. Like a Desktop shell, tablet, kiosk, HoloLens, Windows Mixed Reality, Mobile/phone and many other future shells that people can just add and remove. It is fast and small in size because the old code does not exist and Microsoft hopes to fade current Windows 10 into extinction but it will probably be decades.
That still doesn't explain why their designs feel so shitty. It feels like they don't care about design, and it's just a side project they "have" to do.
I'll give you an answer: minimalism. Fuck minimalism as an artstyle. It's disgusting and makes everything look so basic, instead of looking like there's some actual soul put into it.
That’s always been the difference between Apple and Microsoft, they have a better team work that allows them to have better designs, and most important, they don’t give a shit about users who resist and complain about changes. Microsoft should be more like Apple.
The legacy point you made hit the nail on it's head. But Microsoft isn't a small company, there is absolutely no excuse for it. There should be a toggle to have "legacy" or "modern" design turned on and the first would just offer the "old" programs, look etc (Kinda like in Windows 7 where you had win95/8 theme available).
PixelzGaming So, a seperate "legacy Windows," and "updated Windows"? That seems interesting, but I imagine some of the legacy code is needed, and once it's updated in terms of UI then having it on a seperate OS becomes moot.
Robbert van Nes Home and pro are already different in update timing. A new update i.e. 1803 is available for home users in you guessed it March 2018 and they will be updated at the discretion of Microsoft. Pro users get the update available when the home users have proven it is stable so it'd be available for Pro users about 3 to 6 months later and will be installed at the discretion of the user. The first version of Windows 10 from 2015 only lost support a few months ago. They could do the same thing with the legacy UI. But many would want the old UI and would be pissed to pay extra. Still a Windows 10 Pro OEM licence on the black market is only somewhere between $8 to $30 so I'd be fine with that.
Problem is that this are open API's. Hardware vendors can hook into many of them and provide control panels, windows explorer shell extensions. And they do their own drawings use their own icons. Of course all of this can be skipped but then people start complaining that they are missing in the new interface. And MS does value backward compatibility and will face huge penalities for breaking roadmaps and backward compatibility they promissed to governments and huge corporations.
MS Paint is incredibly quick and useful in a business environment where a screenshot with markup needs to be made as quickly as possible. i have the entire adobe cloud sweet, and snagit, etc but i still use paint every day in a business environment because it is so fast and easy for very simple things
Hans Zarkov you must be joking, win 10 already comes with, not joking, 2 screenshots apps. And... as you guessed... one looks modern and the other like win7 aero style. Now, don’t get me wrong... but... pressing print screen and wasting time pressing a paste button + using tools that don’t allow indestructible editing (unless using undo command) and with a complex canvas resizer is awfully bad. The native screenshot program isnt like lightscreen or sharex, but it surely beats off ms paint in terms of efficiency and ux.
@@ayalabaleeiro8398 Please name the '2 screenshots apps' that Windows 10 comes with? In our corporate environment WIN10 only comes with Paint, Paint 3D, and the Snipping Tool. The Snipping Tool does not have text. You have to click 'Edit with Paint 3D' to add text.
TheSengard They did in Win8 but unfortunately too many stupid people were confused. And few people were willing to spend few hours to learn new stuff that OS offered. Instead people's started to cry that it didn't look and feel like old windows. Win8.1 was far better OS then Vista/Win7 and Win10 put together.
Stanisław Szczypuła i actually didn't liked the Startscreen instead of the menu. I also dislike the new search menu from win 10. I installed a classic Version of the windows 7 start menu on my desktop pc. I usually start my applications with pressing the windows key, type in the first letters and press enter. This doesn't worked on win 8 and does not work on windows 10, because it often shows irrelevant files before it shows the exe.. Yes windows 8 was not bad at all, but my favourite is windows 7 till today. Also a feature that is missing is the possibility to copy files and keep them by automatically rename them if a file in the folder already has the same name. I think the Windows 8 start screen would be nice on tablet and touch devices, better than the start menu now. If windows would ask by the first start which UI it should load a lot of problems would been solved, I guess.
i prefer the win7 design in win10 i.e. the control panel. there are much more options then in the normal settings, there you just have the standart stuff und much less information on whats going on.
I would argue that the inconsistency of the Windows 10 UI is _indeed_ a product of their incompetence. Windows 10 has to run on a much broader band of systems than Android or Apple for sure, but that's no excuse for a inconsistent UI, since it often is not just unfunctional but straight out ugly. In the video it is presented as they were thousands of completely different interfaces that Windows needs to work with, but that's not the case. It's either just classical input methods, touch or a mix out of both. Microsoft created that problem themselves by forcing them in the mobile market where things were pretty well established. Nobody asked for Windows on a tablet. For every exotic input methods there are special applications to make it work. The reason why everyone hates Paint 3D is not because Microsoft changed something, it's because (again) they did a poor job. The soul reason for Paint to even exist, was to make shitty paintings and converting pictures into the right format. That's all for it was used and the App was perfect for what it was and no one wanted someone to change something with that. It could have used a more modern look that fits into the Windows 10 UI for sure. With Paint 3D we now have an App that can do everything that the old Paint App could, although it's way more complicated that it has to be (For example: try to turn a picture by 90° in the Paint 3D App), but on top off that is bloated with a huge amount of features that the normal user would neither need nor want. The Paint 3D App is a perfect example for what Microsoft keeps doing wrong ever since Windows 8. They take a good product, that everyone is happy with, but instead of updating and maintaining it, they try to make it a completely different product, which of course upsets the Users who were happy with the old product and makes them use the older version or a completely different non-Microsoft product, but because they do a half-assed job they fail to reach the group of people they want to acquire with the new product. *Examples:* Windows 7 = Good looking, stable running Desktop OS → Windows 8 = Poor looking Desktop OS that misses essential features for a good workflow like the Start Menu that has a weird UI for mobile devices instead, which makes it absolutely unusable on both devices. They scared away the PC users, but couldn't really get a foot in the mobile market too, because it was as shit on mobile devices too. Same thing with Paint now: Old Paint = Simple program to make drawings and edit pictures → Paint 3D = Weird Mix between an actual painting program and a crappy 3D modelling program. Again it fails to do any of those two things correctly. No professional 3D artist or smth. does use Paint 3D. It's like they didn't learn anything out of the Windows 8 disaster. The 'Windows as a Service' approach with direct user feedback is innovative for sure, but it's no excuse for a cluster fuck like Windows 10. They don't seem to really care about user feedback anyway. If you take a look at the Windows feedback App, you'll see that the top suggestions are turning off telemetry and a consistent UI. They try to make it look like they care about the customer, but what they are actually doing is outsourcing the testing process to the end user. This is retarded. Microsoft's real problem in my opinion is that they got no real strategy, there seems to be too little communication between different divisions inside the company. This probably is how something weird like Windows 8 came to be. Microsoft's back and forth with the Windows UI and their inconsistency in design choices just mirrors the back and forth inside the company and their division on a business strategy. It seems like Microsoft has some serious intern management issues. Another area where this complete lack of strategy is visible is their hardware section. With their surface products for example they try to be part of the hardware market, which they want to supply with their own OS. They attacking the very market that is _essential_ for them. Then they try to sell these products for way to high prices like if they were apple, but at the same time they do nothing to be anything like apple. They seem painfully unaware of what the user needs and wants and they have no idea of what kind of a company they want to be. What good reasons are there for the average home user for keeping using Windows 10? The only reason that I could think of are compatibility with certain programs and of course gaming. Not everyone is a power user or a gamer though. Why bother with Windows 10 which is clunky, buggy, ugly as hell, and updated slower than every Linux distribution out there, if i could use Linux which does all of that at least only exactly as bad but does not spy on me, is open source, and completely free?
I wouldn't agree that Windows 7 looks better now. It may have looked better back in 2009, and in fact it did, but for 2018 standards it does look quite bad.
You can switch to Windows 365 and run Windows in the cloud from your Linux desktop. The last excuse for not moving to Linux has vanished. This is more or less where Microsoft is taking Windows in the future.
Couldn't agree more, you nailed it! I think one of the reasons for this is that most of their customers are enterprise customers. I can't think of one single corporation that uses Mac computers (except for marketing, film making etc.). Apple accepted this fact as well if you look at their newest products (they kinda gave up on targeting business customers) and hence they target individuals and maybe some high-position managers in large corporations who can choose their own devices. Never change a running system, at the end of the day this is still one of the largest corporations worldwide and you can bet they do everything for a reason.
The Apple Human Interface Guidelines. When I worked at Apple in the late ‘90s, this was taken extremely seriously. You’d see that phrase in all the internal literature of the time. I never sensed that any kind of Interface Guideline was a priority at MS. I’m not taking sides here. I’m just saying that Job’s insistence that the user experience be priority number one was deeply ingrained in Apple culture when I was there. Everything Mac started and ended with it. Ask any old school Mac developer and they’ll probably confirm this.
Tournel Henry Sure, but those are the choices that both companies made and those types of cultural choices pervade in their products. At least that’s what I perceive
Microsoft is infested with hn1b1 workers. ITs appealing to the lowest common denominator and is trying to strangle its compitetors including linux with directx12 and making as many games dx12 as possible This will fail as they do stupider and stupider stuff. As a programmer i would never work at apple microsoft google twitter or any of these big name companies for how much they have harmed willingly american infrastructure and our security. They are all scum and deserver to be treated as such for betraying americans for nsa money.
apple's UI consistency was one of the breaking points for me to switch full time to macOS a couple of years ago. originally i planned on a MacBook + custom built Windows desktop but I instead settled into a MacBook Pro + Hackintosh dual booting Win 8/High Sierra. UI and UX consistency are such important parts of macOS as a whole that it makes me wonder how i used windows for as long as I did, i dont have to think about how I use certain apps or how things are going to look. when I used to make Windows apps, I used to be very concious about which UI toolkit I used (i definitely preferred WinForms over WPF simply because it looked native by default) and even then I had to specifically import a special menu bar class to get a truly native menu. eventually, I knew what I needed to do and had all the apps I released consistent and native looking but it was still a few extra steps that i almost had to do on a per control basis and my inner OCD would obsess over the finer details or my apps. I still do that when I make apps for macOS, but i dont have to spend nearly as much time on it. 1-3 button classes that each have their own purpose and meaning, a single unified menu bar (which i also really enjoy using), and of course a consistent theme and color scheme across the OS. (some windows apps had a white background, some had a gray background. i had even once coded in behaviour to change this based on whether or not you were using Windows 7 or Windows 8). i still use windows but not regularly, i boot it up to play games. I'm never turning back to Windows for productivity.
Not anymore, it seems. Nowadays, Apple looks like a random Linux distro. There is nothing that distinguishes the Mac from other operating systems anymore.
I personally like 3D effects and hate the flat look. And I don't want ugly bright colors (like the Windows 10 Tiles), but I do like pleasant subtle colors and textures. MacOS is too bright and flat these days, much like Windows 10. My preference is for Linux Desktops like Compiz+Beryl+Gnome3 or for Windows 7. But even XP's interface was better than Windows 10.
Still using win 7. Feels like maintaining an old vintage car from a company that no longer exists, but the design of the OS has aged quite well overall.
@@HeavenlyWarrior who cares about the design overall? I care about usebillity. The new settingsscreen for example has only a fraction of settings then the old one has (thats why I am still using it). Also while you might call windows 7 ugly, it was really easy and efficient to do things on the system. Also you seem to never have seen windows 2000 (I used this system for 8 years eventhought windows xp was out since 6 years) it was really easy to use, the only problem was that it had no support for better browsers and my pc was crap. what I am trying to say is that I don't care how fancy some UI for windows looks as long as its understandable and does its job
I do care about the design, always did, it's one of the most important things for me. I know Windows 7 is very stable but compared to Windows 10 design, it's ugly and showing signs of very old age pretty fast. I saw Windows 2000, it was like Windows 98 which I used a lot and then switch to XP which sometimes I still use in my 15 year old PC. Even back then I found Windows XP a bit outdated in design, only Windows Vista brought very good looking things but was terrible... Windows 7 is just like Vista in design, so when it came out was already outdated. Windows 8 is pure crap and Windows 10 have great design, at least the earlier versions, the 2017 and above versions pisses me off.
Microsoft's problem is this: they're trying to create an operating system that's both a PC OS and a mobile OS.....and that's a huge problem. Is MacOS the exact same OS as IOS? No, it isn't! *It's two completely separate operating systems!!!* And that's what Microsoft should have done! *They should have created TWO completely different operating systems: one for mobile, and one for PC!* The process of trying to merge the two is as disastrous as trying to merge the east and the west. It's just plain dumb.
I think you don't know what you're talking about. An operating system is more than the UI and UX. Windows 7, 8 or 10 are entirely different from Windows mobile and then, Windows phone as well. Infact, macOS and iOS are more similar than those different Windows OS. As far as UI and UX are concerned, I think Apple should be consistent with their two OSs. I think they will, after they redesign iOS this year and macOS most probably next year. It would be embarrassing for Apple that Google's two operating systems ie Android and Chrome OS seems to be more design consistent than Apple's, which was the company that forced them to develop 'Material Design' in the first place.
@@nadeemshaikh7863 Honestly? I think that you don't know what you're talking about. There's an obvious attempt to try to merge both mobile and desktop into one hybrid system. If you can't obviously see that, then it's because you are blind and can't be therefore you will never be reasoned with.
There was a time when the Windows interface was very consistent. It was the time of Windows 95 and Windows 98. I still like the old interface. It looked not very modern but the consistent interface made it nice to look at.
Am I the only one who think Win7 Aero is better. MS screwed it up when it wanted to go "touch OS" when introducing Metro (now called Modern) look. Win7 style looks good, and SUITABLE and functional for desktop environment (and also keyboard friendly). They just need to revise it for high DPI desktop.
Windows vista aero was actually better than 7's. with XP, MS had mostly adopted a new UI style and redid 90% of the OS (including almost all icons). With Vista this was done again (vista's style included dark/black toolbars, left-facing icons using teal glass with orange accents… it was pretty consistent). With W7 the design was only halfway done (light blue toolbars, front-facing light colored icons… but 80% of the design was rather vista-style). With W8 the startscreen and metro apps were completely redone, but Nothing on the desktop (bar explorer and taskmgr) was updated. Then with W10, stuff is changed every six months or so (W10 came with a new set of desktop and metro icons, only covering 25% of the OS, but then fluent came… so clearly it is not consistent and won't ever be again). since W7 the updates are incremental, so we can say Goodbye to consistency.
They CAN offer a consistent Windows, they just choose not to. Windows 10 is a support nightmare. How to accomplish something (and whether or not it is even possible to do so anymore) depends on what build the person is on, which means to support Windows 10 requires being familiar with all possible builds that one could encounter. That means knowing all the "settings shuffles" and control panel neutering of Windows 10 builds 1507, 1511, 1607, 1703, 1709, 1803, and soon build 1809 as well. In each build, Microsoft strips out Control Panel functionality and forces it over to the Settings panel, but they are notorious for killing off Control Panel stuff despite the Settings equivalents omitting important settings or capabilities. It used to be that you could change a network from "public" to "private" using Network Connections in the Control Panel, but that was lost and HomeGroup was the only place to easily find a "switch" for that setting. Then they killed off HomeGroup functionality. In Windows 10 build 1709, to change a network from Public to Private after the pop-out prompt when you first connect is gone, you have to HAND-EDIT THE REGISTRY SETTING FOR THE PUBLIC/PRIVATE STATUS OF THAT NETWORK. When they worked on killing off Default Programs, they made it redirect to Default Apps which doesn't let you pick a single program and one-click associate ALL file types it can handle with that program; there was a workaround where one could run a batch file that invoked the old Default Programs panel, but now that's also going to just redirect to the Default Apps panel which STILL CANNOT ONE-CLICK ASSOCIATE ALL FILE TYPES. I don't buy excuses like "we support lots of different hardware." That's a cop-out. Touchscreens were in use long before Windows 10. Also, Microsoft DOES NOT listen to the vast majority of user feedback. I have repeatedly reported many serious problems using their feedback mechanism and those problems persist today.
It always amused me that people would complain that the command line is too complicated yet as soon as anything gets tricky with Windows, it's off to regedit.
Windows 7 is more consistent than Windows 10. Still using it after all these years. I dread the day when drivers will be unavailable for Windows 7. That's when I suppose I'll finally have to upgrade.
That just means they'll stop updating it. I haven't updated Windows 7 in a couple years now anyway. Causes too many problems if you have a complicated setup.
Dipak Chakraborty, that is exactly how I feel. While I love the functionality and speed of Windows 10. I do miss the UI of Windows 7, especially the transparent window panes and such.
Drivers are already unavailable for win7. You can't even officially install win7 on new cpu's. Few years ago when I tried to install win7 on brand new Haswell platform win7 didn't even recognize network chipset on MB and didn't install network drivers so it actually didn't have any drivers at all. Soo after fighting with it for few hours I gave up and install Win8 and then "upgraded" to Win10. Although I'm not sure if it actually was an upgrade or a downgrade.
windows as a service is a terrible idea. we are sticking to w7. i can't stress anymore if my pc will work like it was working last night before the new update was installed. lost devices... problem with drivers... u. i Frankenstein......settings/options constantly moving arround...spamwahere apps autoinstalling... long installing hours even on moderm ssd pcs.... settings and personal configuration like RDP licenses and privacy just reseting every damn time there is an update.... is SOME OF THE FRUSTRATION WE ARE GETTING FROM THE NEVER FINISHED windows 10 o.s.
Many years ago I switched to Linux Mint and never looked back since then. I only run Windows in VM when I absolutely need to use an old legacy program which is very rare.
it's funny the model that Windows switched to for new OS's is basically the same way as most of the big Linux distros do with what's called a "Rolling Release" and for years Microsoft actively criticised this style of development for years but now use it for Windows 10 lol
There are numerous models that MS is now using that have been effective in the OS community for ages. Personally, I applaud them for (finally) taking it up, but it certainly proves a point!
The strange thing is Microsoft with Windows 11 is switching from a rolling release model to an LTS model with one big update a year. Much better for everyone, particularly for its enterprise customers, who want rock solid stability in running Windows. Its a long overdue change and gives the company more time to roll out well tested updates.
Other OSes, mainly GNU/Linux ones, like Ubuntu, Fedora, Chrome OS, Antergos or Solus do a better job at being consistent and doing whatever MS does to Windows. Two of them (Antergos and Solus) are rolling release, which means they don't even have specific releases, they just update components individually and eternally, and the other three (Ubuntu, Chrome OS & Fedora) have releases, to which the user can update without any big fuss (like formatting or whatever). Plus they all (could) support a wide range of devices, the same way Windows do. Yet they are all very consistent. So no, the reasons are not the ones specified in this video. The true reason is that MS has lost control over Windows. You see, most people don't use Windows because they are Windows, but because of the compatibility Windows has with most popular hardware/software (graphics cards, VR headsets, games, creative apps like Adobe apps or FL studio, etc.) and because that's what people are familiar with. People don't need Windows, they need the stuff people make for Windows, and that's why people use Windows. Thus killing the old APIs MS had for ages, for which tons of software/hardware was made, for new, better APIs is a no-no: MS would lose all that that is keeping Windows alive. That's what happened with MS 8 (which people were unfamiliar with) and to Windows 10 S (Which did not support any of the old APIs, and thus was useless and pointless to software makers and people alike), and why Windows still lives even after several serious blunders (like failed forced updates). MS is now the puppet of its software creators, and its once main product is going to live until software creators leave the Windows ecosystem for a better, more widely supported, user/dev friendly and stable option, once Windows just becomes too cluttered, restrictive, unstable and android/IOS like (with a store that takes 40% of the app's revenue). And then other standards are going to be used, like web apps, which are supported by most OSes and devices alike. That's also why Windows can't sustain innovation anymore. Does that remind something to you? Yes, it's the same as the IE tragedy. Once, websites were only created to support IE, and IE only lived only off the content that was exclusively created for it, until the ecosystem became so dated and restrictive, that other alternatives started to pop up (Mozilla Firefox & Google Chrome) and people (both devs and users) started using the competition. Today IE is nothing but a joke. Of course that happened in a matter of years, if not decades. And it was relatively fast, because the only thing the user needed to do was download, install and use a different web browser. The only difference however between the old IE tragedy and what is going to happen to Windows is that switching your OS is not as simple as switching browsers. Only tech-savvy people can do it, and many people can't get used to the new OS. Moreover catastrophic mistakes can happen. That makes switching OSes much harder, and thus the transition between Windows and other products much slower. It will happen though, it's only a matter of decades, in which licensing contracts between MS and manufacturers will end, lots of lawsuits will happen against MS for many more blunders, new products will arise, more mistakes will be made, Windows will be no more a viable option for businesses, will reach despair and will eventually become a joke, just like IE.
What I find funny is we're going to look back at windows 10 and think it's the ugliest outdated thing in 10 years. Everything has a metro theme now. We're living in a moment similar to the 80's. In the 80's they thought the style looked cool and normal but with time it looked ridiculous.
Sameridd ...so literally exactly how design works? A sedan from 1990 might have been sporty and sleek but now? Absolutely disgusting. Design evolves and changes with time.
I would disagree on this one... Some design elements are fasion, They come and go, like 80's brick cars, or 90s roundy and uninterestingly aerodynamics-focused designs.. Some designs are just good... You would be hard pressed to find people saying 67-70 Mustang is an absolutely disgusting design today, or 50s-60s cadillacs are disgusting... Just as majority will still be OK with XP's UI, and love Win7's aero design... 10 years from now Win10 will still look bad, and Win7 will still look good, IMHO...
Yea, just make every app use one theme engine and update the default theme from time to time. But I think they don't care, they are getting money anyway.
3 years later and Windows 10 UI still looks like something a bored high school student would rush out in IT class so they can go home and smoke weed Basically me at 15
The UI is alright.. but the windows store is atrocious. Nothing is organized in a good way. Also, the games aren't even categorized or grouped. Everything is just there placed randomly.
You are trying to say, that MS can't complete a simple UI swap on the very few built in windows applications, because they support more devices??? How would that even make sense? You design the UI on a very high level abstraction layer, far far above *any* hardware specific driver code. Its *exactly* *the* *same* as with OSX, KDE, Gnome, Android, etc. and they can all create a consistent UI-s! Sorry this is just not how software development works. At all. Please, don't misinform people, try researching the field a little first, before making a video about it.
That's an excellent point. Beyond having to design for different scales or physical interfaces (e.g. the difference between using a 320px wide smartphone and a huge desktop monitor), there's no reason the interfaces can't be visually more similar, even if the low or even high level code underlying the visual elements has to be modified for different devices. At the very least they could have consistent color and styling.
Try to make an OS that can work with Mixed reality headsets, VR, Interactive Whiteboards, Tablets, Phones, Laptops, and Computers that looks good, clean, and modern. You'll fail
@@tegarpratama7755 As If! Whiteboards Tablets, Phones, etc. share the same touch based interface, so even MS calls this "Tablet Mode". The only other mode Windows supports is "Desktop Mode". You have a grand total of 2, only slightly different modes to design for.
Recently gone back to 7 I'd much rather use a tested and rock solid OS than an unfinished and inconsistent product that feels like a beta (and with those frequent feature updates an alpha sometimes) Besides, Windows 10 looks childish, simplistic, with solid colors that remind me of Windows 2 and absolutely hurt my eyes, and it doesn't even have half of the customization settings we used to have from 95 to 7
Denin Paul Windows 8 looked pretty nice in the builds before the final release, but then they removed Aero and gave it a cheesy look By the way, I still prefer how in Windows 8 the traditional and the Modern UI are completely separate, so you don't have a mess of inconsistencies or two control panels on your desktop
W10 gives me brain and eyestrain so bad that I can not use it at all... When support for Windows 7 runs out Linux / BSD and Mac OSX is the only option for me and many many other people. I predict Windows will soon be a dead chapter in computer history.
Jorelplay, that is probably the issue here. If you want contradictory statements from people who don't really know what they want or can't express it well, ask your users.
Everything since Windows 7 has been cancerous. I hate using Windows every day yet don't see what other choice provides the same function. I just wish they had taken Windows 7 and made it slicker, slimmer, more customisable and more open. Instead we got an infestation of the lacklustre, tacky design language that looked outdated in 2012 and looks horrendous today. Flat squares and plain text. Hurr, what an original and dynamic idea. It's like they designed Word first and then made the whole UI using Word.
"Flat squares and plain text"... and bright ass, high contrast colours that'll turn someone with colour-vision colour-blind! The Windows 10 UI is literally painful to look at. The flatness, choice of font, text sizing, bounding box design, etc make it hard to tell what is simply text and what is a link or what is important information and what is irrelevant. With Win7 I didn't even need to read the text to know where to go in control panel, now it's almost all just a mess of text. It's as if they forgot how a UI is supposed to work
Windows 7 will be my last Microsoft OS either can find ways to keep it going, go to another OS not made by Microsoft, or I'll just stop bothering with computers. Grew up in the 90's without a computer wasn't until XP came out that really even bothered with computers and can go right back to it, though in the meantime will try to have fun with it but the sheen is wearing off fast with how things have been going.
100% true. MacOS feels like stock Android in the PC world. Trying to keep Windows 10 as the final OS and slowly transitioning to a completely material design ui is so messed up. I wish it turned into a simple fluid design overnight. Having inconsistent and multiple design language actually feels like bloatware and crap all over😅
It's not just Win10, but websites, macOS since yosemite etc. It's a general trend. Back in the Vista/7 era, pseudo 3d designs, glass effects etc were the rage, because they weren't possible before. It was new and exciting. But now, the cheapest system (e.g. Raspberry Pi) is capable of producing those effects. It got boring and it's rather distracting. I grew to prefer the Windows 10 flat design over the Win7 design philosophy. But I mostly don't care. Give me a x64 Windows NT 4.0 capable of running modern software, and that's fine with me too.
@@maxmustermann1455 Eh I guess but it still makes me feel weird wehn using it if the programs don't have aero or at least some shading with rounded corners. Windows XP UI? Of course! Windows 10 UI? Definitely not. Windows 7 UI? Cool but when I turn off aero windowed programs run faster i.e 7-zip or even a simple file transfer I loved android 4.3 design but then Google though it would be a great idea to make everything without shading and with windows 10 like program tabs. I mean why won't they just add a tiny bit of shading to their icons? It won't hurt them. There are even programs which do it automatically...and now the Google is forcing devs to make their app icons round and even placed a very ugly white background on the app drawer. Whenever I am in app drawer I can't see my phone's background like before and it sucks. OS companies just keep making their OS worse and worse. And do everything opposite to what consumer asks
Actually both of your arguments do not make any sense in "defending" the inconsistency of windows. First the diversity in hardware would be an argument for problems with drivers and hardware, but not for the UI. You might argue that touch devices require a different input scheme, but thats not the case with desktop and windows phone is dead. Second MacOS and many Linux distros are both "Software as Service" in term of ever changing, and both can get consistent UIs for their core apps since many years. As matter of a fact, Microsoft was trying, in a bad attempt to copy apple, to push the "Modern UI" with windows 8. It failed, but instead of learning from that fail, they tried to rescue in into windows 10. Thats why that "control panel" App even exists. And worst of all even programs apps dont follow their own guidelines because the apps get skinned pretty freely. With Win32 that is not the case, you had to use the controls the way its meant to be. In the end its bad marketing meeting incompetence - no excuse.
before you read my comment, I assumed the modern design is flat design, since many modern operating systems are using it actually, Microsoft is the first to introduce modern design back in 2006 on the Zune music player, apple then implement the modern UI on 2013 www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/flat-design-an-introduction
Oh yeah the Zune, another failed attempt to copy the Apple iPod. Modern UI is more than just flat squares and big fonts, in the matter of visual fashion I am perfectly sure we will see edged 3d, gradients and shadows someday again.
here the design of ipod (2006) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#/media/File:Ipod_5th_Generation_white_rotated.png and here's the design of Zune 30(also 2006) zune.wikia.com/wiki/Zune_30?file=Zune30-1.jpg
I'm super happy with my consistent and stable Linux Mint 19. It's wonderful to work with it. Only disadvantage is when it comes to work with people who insist on Microsoft products. But that's a community problem and not one of the OS itself.
When it comes to Microsoft Design i always rage. It's like building a city. They build one house and then blow it up again to build the same house again, but a little bit different. There is so much in each new version where the same thing is now done diffently and you need to relearn it. Look at Skype. I hate the new layout. The actual chatbox got smaller and smaller each time. The same functions just get moved around and renamed. We are not making progress here, there are no improvements. We are walking backwards. I think i will stay with Win7 for the next 10 years. It was a lot of work when i changed from XP. And XP is still better then 10.
Depending on what software you use, you could see if Linux would work for you. Maybe take a look at Ubuntu MATE? It has an option that makes it look similar to the Windows XP UI.
Just a heads-up: if you continue to use Windows 7 beyond January 2020, you'll be increasingly vulnerable to malware attacks, as Microsoft will discontinue security patches. Perhaps you already know this (why aren't you just using XP if that was the best one?), but I think it needs to be stated when "stay with Win7 for the next 10 years" is mentioned in a public discussion.
@Intel386, i have been using classic themes ( Win 2000 ) since 2000. Even had it for my XP & Win 7. Didnt use Win 10 for more than 2 days. Too much new things to learn
I have never used Windows 10 or even 8.x! I am still today using XP (from wich I am typing now) and Windows 7 is the last Windows I am currently using (Dual boot) :) And with the classic theme I am Using Windows from about year 2000 too, I started with 95 then 98 then 2000 and I like just stuck on XP for ever :) BTW My first experience With Windows was with 3.x in about 1994 :) Just compere the huge hap between 3.x and 9x , even the gap between 9x/2k-XP and 8.x/10 is not to big
@Intel , I did use Win 3.1 , 95, 98 & 2000 , but never used ME. But how does ur XP still work ? My browsers were not working very good in 2016 . So had to switch over to Win 7
I was using ME but only for testing to realize that it was peace of shit because there was very little device driver support from manufactures. It was the last DOS based Windows OS but with Win 2k interface . Under XP am using the latest available versions: Firefox 59,2 Opera 35, and SeaMonkey 2.49 (Firefox based browser) for Adobe flash you have to download standalone installers manually from the website , they still support XP and may be 2k (current version is 31) You-tube works perfectly , but many video web sites do not play normaly or at all. BTW I am using x86 (32bit) Windows 7 and because my old Epson USB scanner and Realtek RTL8029(AS) do not have Window & drivers, I use XP drivers instead, and they works :D My PC is from 2007 Core 2 duo 2.2GHz and 3GB ram
@Intel , I was using a Pentium 4 pinless 3.00 Ghz processor with XP ; 865 MoBo , so couldnt upgrade the RAM above 2 GB. This was till 2016. But now I have i3 7th Gen. I didnt go for 8th Gen because they told me that Win 7 wont be compatible with 8th Generation. Even with this I had a very hard time installing Win 7. Windows 10 got installed with no problems. Had to actually download a special tool from MSI website to make a Win 7 bootable USB. Something to do with GPT , MBR partition and that UEFI thing. Never had to deal with all this headache during earlier days
Man, you have an amazing way of compiling a lot of information on a topic and delivering it in such a digestible way. I also appreciate the nonpartisan approach to the tech you cover. Thanks for your hard work!
Razor 404 are you seriously saying you only just started using Win7 AFTER 10? Are you fucking kidding me? Windows 7 came out in 2009. Of course Windows 10 has more modern features and is faster. But as someone who used Windows 7 from 2009 to 2015, I can say Windows 8 and 10 FUCKING RUINED the visual design of Windows, and Windows 10’s new FORCED updates BREAK my gaming machine with each new major build every 6 months. What exactly about Windows 7 did you hate? Because I can go on all day about what I loved about 7 and what I hate about 10.
Can't say if you're right or wrong, but according to my experience, Windows 7 is faster, probably because my PC is not compatible with Windows 10 although it's 2011. Yes, Windows 7 takes much more space than 10, but oddweirdly enough, Windows 10 looks more bloated than Windows 7, and slower also. So not everyone is pleased with Windows 10, we should blame both Intel and Microsoft for that...
Windows 7 is better anyway. Seeing as support ends for it in 2020, I've already started the transition to Linux. I'll only keep Windows around to play games and certain software which is not produced for Linux systems, i.e., well really, just high feature video editors, which I don't use very often anyway.
Have you heard about Steam Play/Proton? It lets your run Windows games like they're native applications. You can even use controllers. Check out Steam Play Compatibility Reports to see which games you have work. You could also see if your video editor will work with wine on the Wine AppDB.
I guess that 80+% of users never have to open the control panel and can do everything from the new settings menu. And for the once every month or so, that you have to dig in the inconsistency is no big deal. But for casual users the control panel can be quite overwhelming.
What drives me crazy is how some app devs completely throws out any base UI guidelines for their app's windows. Many have the habit of creating the top of the window frame to whatever the hell they want and the Maximize/Minimize/ close window buttons is anything but the recommended size or design. Discord, Quickbooks Enterprise, WhatsApp, iTunes are just a few of such apps that comes to mind!
I was really pissed when MS released Windows 10. They took out some of the things out if the Control Panel and put it only in the Settings app. After that they even removed the resolution settings from the Control Panel and put them in the stupid settings app. Now the control panel is pretty useless even though it has so many sections😒
I wish they would just port everything from all the old programs and put them in the new modern apps already. Overhaul file manager, get rid of IE , paint and control panel and force people to upgrade from *Really old*, obsolete software. Or just make Windows 7 Enterprise and Windows 10 Home/ Pro separate.
Just A Person Settings is pitifully barebones and buggy. E.g. there are duplicate settings in Settings that don't work and can only be set in Control Panel and don't sync with Settings. Backup is split between the new and old interface, funnily enough revealing this is all actually Windows 7 with stuff bolted on top. Windows 10 is a cancer on Windows 7- for example Win 10 can and does ignore group policy and as I mentioned earlier doesn't sync properly with some settings.
I rarely even touch the fluent design in windows 10. I dont use "apps", i have the start menu replaced with classic shell and i have some other ui elements modified.
Yes and no. Most linux distros are very similar to windows with the point and click GUI. Most people will find Ubuntu very user friendly, but if they want to change a driver or something, it may be harder to so than in Windows. Most people don't even know what a driver is anyway.
Except if you're waiting for Windows 11, you'll never be installing Linux. Much like MacOS, Microsoft will stop making completely new OSes and instead refine Windows 10 continuously.
Windows 7 itself has a lot of Vista ui aplets and the credui.dll thats an Windows XP libraly with a lot of functions still used. NTVDM is an Windows NT 3.1 regment as the error message says "update the program to a version compatable with at least Windows version 3.0 or later" v3.0 of Windows came out in 1990. another big giveaway is the fact that the menus in the 16bit programs use the Windows NT 4.0 gui. speaking of NT4 gui, its still the main gui and its just has layers on top of it. even worse the menu from Windows v2.0 is still present in the same spot as it was back in the day. in cmd propeties window it still still shows the windows nt 3.1 gui. the control panel is still from Windows 8. the metro ui is aslo there, last updated by Windows TP to make it esiaer to use with a keyboard and mouse. metro apps will have a menu with the charms options on the title bar and the charms aplets are still in the Windows 8 design. Windows 8.1 search charm is still present in the exact same spot. the Windows 10 1507 ui can still be found in newer releases. Windows Vista ui is still present in Windows 10. credui.dll is still present and still used. Windows Vista explorer ui is aslo still present in %systemroot%\OfflineWebPages and %systemroot%\DownloadedProgramFiles .
Windows 10 metro UI sucks, for example i cant find crap in settings unlike the good old Control Panel recently they hide the network panel started to use Metro UI for it, i hate it as i always switch IP address...
Dexter, I agree. Windows Metro UI sucks period. I use Windows 10 pro and essentially have the metro portion disabled. I then found the control panel and this computer icons and put them on the taskbar. I then get God-mode put on my desktop and I am all good.
See, right there is the problem: The UI is completely tied to the OS and the apps. It's not an overlay. Linux solves this issue by having the OS kernel separate from the UI. I can install several desktop environments and switch between them and the underlying OS and the running apps aren't going to care one whit about the interface. Granted, there are occasionally some apps that won't display quite properly based on the DE but there's usually a quick and simple workaround. MS needs to dump Windows proper for something more dynamic, provide emulation/virtualization for older apps for about three to four years (a la OS X when they switched from the classic Mac OS, and again when they switched from PPC to Intel), and then within a decade, MS would have an OS that could go through many iterations without worrying about breaking legacy apps. But they're just not smart enough to do that. Or brave enough. Or both.
I'll start with three quick examples that fully refute everything you wrote... Xbox (360/One/X) - Windows 10 IoT - Azure NT "OS kernel separate from the UI" - The Windows Kernel is also separate from the UI, in fact the entire part of the OS that people see as Windows is just a 'subsystem' that is completely independent from NT. The Windows subsystem is the default OS subsystem, but this can be changed, and some versions of Windows NT don't even use the Win32 subsystem. With NT, not only is the UI separate, but the entire Win32 OS on top of NT is separate and can be changed, or replaced. (Something Linux cannot and will never be capable of doing.) For example if Microsoft wanted, they could make the Linux Subsystem the default subsystem and either make Win32 work through this subsystem for display/input/etc or even fully remove the Windows subsystem, and have Linux running on top of NT, with a lot of advantages for Linux by gaining access to all the low level GPU technologies, agnostic scheduling, and driver capabilities of NT. (This is something you can look up - I recommend people start with the 1st or 2nd Edition of 'Inside NT'.) "UI is completely tied to the OS and the apps" - Even sticking with Win32 as the main OS subsystem, this still is not true. As a 'user' you can run a custom shell, windows manager, composer, and even use your own rendering engines. (Power on an Xbox for proof.) Microsoft Partners and OEMs do this all the time with custom design built around Windows, from ATMs to highly specialized systems in use in engineering and manufacturing. Trust me, I wrote code for X11 back in the day that you are still using on Linux. Ok, don't trust me, this information is easily available and you can reference everything I have mentioned for yourself. The Linux 'extensibility fallacy' is something that needs to go away. The irony is that even though NT is not OSS, it is more extensible for end users than Linux, the only disconnect is that users don't seem to realize this and stick with what Windows ships with. In the 90s, users customized the heck out of Windows and Windows NT, and there are still users and groups that do this. However, for the average user, the Linux Myth convinces people this isn't possible, so they don't notice or look for ways to customize Windows.
T'he NetAvenger I believe you and thanks for the clarifications. But then how do you explain the awful mess that is still Windows 10 in terms of interface structure? When 8 came out, it could be argued that it was at best a beta, or proof of concept, or an attempt to move forward with a new UI. What struck me at the time (and I think it still is the case) was that 8 shipped with two distinct versions of Internet Explorer. The classic IE and the Modern IE. But both were self contained and had absolutely no communication with each other. I get the fact that one was based on the Win32 API and the other on the Modern API (HTML5 and Javascript I believe?) If you made a bookmark in one, it wouldn't be reflected in the other. I would think that both programs should have been pointing to one common place for something as simple as bookmarks. But nope. Then we get to the Control Panel. Again, I realize the classic Control Panel and Modern Control Panel are different, but why do we need both? Why are something things replicated and other things only available in one or the other? If that's changed by now, color me surprised. Honestly, I can't stand using 10. I still like 7 a lot, and tolerate 8.1 as it came pre-installed on my tower and I keep Windows around for games, but other than that, for me at least, Windows has become a hot mess that I just can't and don't want to deal with. In my opinion, 10 is really 8.2, just more confusing and not worth the hassle that comes with it. MS has had several years to sort this shit out and still hasn't been able to do so. Makes me wonder if it's just plain laziness or if there's still some legacy code under the hood that needs to be modified in order to make one coherent kernel and UI.
I have seen a lot of these "Microsoft Partners and OEMs do this all the time with custom design built around Windows, from ATMs to highly specialized systems in use in engineering and manufacturing. " and they are most often just a an application overlayed over the normal windows OS interface of older version of windows or windows CE. Also all that stuff you mentioned about running linux over the windows kernel or Windows over the Linux kernel isn't just not supported in Windows 10, Microsoft is in constant fights with 3rd party software vendors that try to access the underlying kernel directly. The Windows 10 Kernel is currently going through a series of changes where it is abstracted and gated by a hypervisor so that the kernel and the lower level APL calls will no longer be accessible at all by 3rd parties because it leaks like a sieve when pen tested. The core issue is that win32 is creaking pile of garbage riddled with ancient codes that needs a complete rewite (remember longhorn) but the codebase is so large and fragmented and the internal politics of the company is so disfunctional that it will never happen.
Yeah, the Windows internal separation is probably nice from an engineering standpoint but for the purpose of this discussion, it is not really relevant. Most of the interesting stuff is happening above that division.and that is where Windows lacks the separation that makes the difference. This is how come we have the amazingly successful Android which rapidly took over a market Microsoft chased for decades and how come people are working on alternatives to X11 (though I confess I'm an X11 fan) without any major issues. I think the biggest elephant in the room is that Microsoft wants the mobile market but has no idea how to reconcile that with their desktop offering. Thus Windows 10 is a horrible hodge-podge of both ideas, satisfying neither. They failed in the mobile market because their OS offering was not mobile-centric enough. Now they've shuffled in a bunch of stuff and it's still not mobile centric enough but now it's also not desktop-centric enough on the desktop. It needs a whole separate interface for both but the architecture and the culture at Microsoft doesn't really allow that.
Quite frankly, it's a shame that Windows Explorer hasn't gotten any proper updates. This is perhaps one of the most important programs on Windows and regardless of how good your machine is the thing is too incompetent. Windows Explorer is always crashing and is easy to manipulate, it's one of the many things that needs and update and we simply haven't seen that.
@@jn1mrgn I use a last gen i5 and before I switched to Linux trying to load things from an SD card would freeze the computer, it got to the point where even loading the desktop folder took more than 3 minutes just for like 6 files and shortcuts despite having Windows Defender up and a clean install.
@@ananasupreme check your disk usage. I can't say for certain but I think one of your drives is failing. If you see above 80% disk usage for any of the drives while being idle, that's the issue. Happened to me so I know.
@@ananasupreme Either youve got a hardware problem, or your bullshit for the fuck of it. Ive got an i5 7500 rx 460 and ssd and have none of these peoblems on 10.
This looks to be false info for me. They really only code the kernel for x86 and x86-64 arches... From there you have standard libraries to allow your apps to work on everything else no matter the syscalls... The argument that windows has to support as many computers is false. They actually support just the CPU and the generic drivers... Its up to hardware designers to make device drivers to interface with the hardware and kernel. The windows design could easily be changed and consistent... Its called portable code. It isn't hard, you just have to learn to use APIs which make things even more simple. Look at Linux, its huge but it supports a lot of arches. The only other thing they have are modules which can act as drivers. Linux themselves don't have to support them. They just expose syscalls, which can be used in APIs to make things portable and work on every Linux system. Portable code... Its useful.
sadly visual studio is kinda leading developer to make monolithic softwares. starting with incompactible compiler across versions, obsfucation of simple stuff, and so on. the flaw runs deep and simple polishing won't fix shit. btw i just realized microsoft start approaching linux community because they want to sell support for devs instead of doing OS, that is after current clients move to azure infrastructure.
You can count me as someone who prefers Windows 7. I presently have two hard-drives on my computer, one which runs 7 and the other, 10. My two biggest gripes with 10 is that 1.) it doesn't have the auto-play feature for importing photos from an SD card to my hard-drive, which included being able to name them however I like prior to importation, and 2.) the mp3 and WAV files I recorded and edited in my Sound Forge app in 7 don't make a sound, when played in 10, despite looking like they're playing--as if there's some encoding glitch. Both developments are worrisome to me, since I'm supposed to migrate completely over to 10, next year. I'm hoping there can at least be a "virtual machine" I can use for my Win 7-compatible apps on the same hard-drive. For longtime freelancers like me, continuity can be as important as upgrades. (Also, the 7 interface may be retro by today's standards, but it's still friendlier than the subsequent versions.) Maybe one day, they'll come up with a more modular form of upgrading and customization, where users can retain what they like best about earlier versions of their operating environments, while being able to run the latest apps.
i mean, if i use window Pro version, they at least remove the whole window setting crap! what the point of window setting? there are barely any setting that i tinker around except personalization, update and that's it! why don't fuse Control panel and this new window 10 setting into one?
Nawar El Sabaa It's really terrible how slow it is. I mean how much work can it be to add a fucking setting to settings, can't be more than few lines of code.
I consistently install the newest update for my Classic Shell start menu. Can't stand the Win10 start menu, it's useless for me, I'm looking for files and folders and program directories, not "apps".
F Szabo And classic start menu was not crap? Lol. So why everyone ends up with half of desktop covered with shortcuts so they can avoid using that presious classic start of yours. On every f**** windows since Win95 !!!
DeanStuff any type of start menu made by Microsoft was garbrage when compared to Linux menu. Actually the one in Win 8 was somewhat usable. At least I was able to pin shortcuts to start screen and have my desktop free for files.
Microsoft should focus on making their OS and their apps "bulletproof", rooting out all the memory leaks, stack overflows, etc. that allow malware attacks. Let the basic functionality of their software stay unchanged for a year or two, just make sure it is bug-free. Sadly, that isn't going to happen. We really don't need fancy 3D graphics in the basic design of an OS.
@@SayAhh I never used Windows 2000 to the same extent I did the others so not sure. I'd probably put it between Vista and Everything else though same with Windows 95. I'd rather use those if I could than 8 and 10 that's for sure
Windows 10 is so bad that I have less trouble adapting to Linux Mint... I have had to use use W10 for a year at work and I will never ever use it myself agian, it is so bad that it gives me physical discomfort using it. Windows 7 is faster and better in every way.
Even basic things like Windows Explorer aren't fixed. When one selects a folder and expands it, Windows Explorer jumps the folder to the bottom of that window so that all the child folders are hidden. This doesn't happen always, but often enough to annoy, if one uses Windows Explorer every day a lot. Also if one doesn't select another folder soon enough, the Explorer decides to expand something or jump back where the folder is selected and or something.
its like the people responsible never even used their own OS for everyday tasks. if they did, they would have fixed windows stealing focus 20 years ago. i guess even MS developers use Linux for their personal stuff.
@@minorseven2791 Your response shows you do not understand. The messed up Windoze registry impacts all who rely upon that OS. This is one reason that Windows can not be certified to manage life support systems - it is just not reliable.
Pasting a table from excel into outlook was a nightmare. Colour palettes aren’t really shared across office programs. People talk about Apple’s distortion field, but there is a serious level of distortion around how frustrating many of the “quirks” that arise from Windows and Microsoft’s own software running on Windows. I know of more than one thesis that was nearly obliterated by bugs in Word, one of which was known across multiple versions. When you grow up accustomed to a thing, it can take a lot of pain to figure out that it actually causes you grief and wasted your time, and it could easily be otherwise…
Yes, I agree with everything. However, there is no reason for them to at least (whilst keeping the classic apps in the background - just hidden) make new, modernized versions of old apps - with complete functionality (not just some). Good example is Edge and the Settings app. Edge is a complete new app, and Settings wants to be a Control Panel, but some of the functionality Control Panel has is missing from the Settings app (but it's getting expanded time to time, so I feel like it's getting there). Some apps are critical: we need a new File Explorer. All the ones from third parties are bad. The ones with good design and look lack functionality. The ones that have functionality look even worse than the current File explorer. We don't need a new file browser to do everything the the way the current File Explorer does, but it needs to be somewhat customizable, efficient, nice looking and comfortable to use. If the current File Browser had a dark mode, and the icons could be made bigger all-throughout the UI, we would honestly be quite close to what we actually need, imo.
Dark mode for file explorer is coming in the next fall update.and the "reveal" and "acrylic" designs are being expanded into more apps. The updates are a bit too iterative and slow, though.
The funny part is you can get mods that take care of the issue. I like the direction they're taking, known as Fluent Design. Acrylic as they're calling it (The frosted glass effect) is really quite nice. But progress is so slow and it's just getting frustrating to look at anymore.
As an end-user (and a tech professional), I don't care about Microsoft's business model. Windows 10 is a crap product that I'd gladly switch away from, given the opportunity. For now, Windows 7 still does the job.
I love linux on desktops, but oh god oh fuck i hate it on my tablet. There's a lot of fuckery with the touchscreen, there's a lot of fuckery with screen rotation on the login screen, there are problems with sleeping mode, there Are problems with touchscreen windows button and god bless you if you try operating anything more than a browsers search with on-screen keyboard
I’m sorry, but there are just too many programs that still don’t work on Linux that I can’t force myself to switch. If it ain’t broke (or _too_ broke), don’t fix it.
I've always been complaining about the UI inconsistancy. This video has some what satisfied me with a glimpse of what's going on with the UI. Thanks a lot! Why don't they create 2 theme sets, one is legacy theme and the other is fluent design theme. Either theme the users selected, they have all API of both style so they can create apps with fluent design on a legacy system.
Hi Tech Altar, I remember you did one video "Why app won't matter in the future" and I am surprised that you were quite closer in predicting the future trend that too in 2016. I want you to please make the follow up video for the same. These are my observations about how MS is slowly and gradually creating a whole ecosystem to re-enter the mobile market (I may be wrong). I am just trying to connect the dots. 1. PWA (Progressive Web App is a Web App developed using HTML, CSS & JS behaving like a native app - jointly promoted by Mozilla, Google and MS). If this succeed, most of the 3rd party Devs will prefer PWA over native apps thus bridging app gap. 2. UWP (Universal Windows Platform) a common API for developers for "write once run every where" Windows 10 apps targeting broad range of devices. 3. Windows 10 on ARM - running Windows 10 on Snapdragon 845 4. Natively touch optimized Windows 10. 5. Rise of cross platform native JavaScript apps using Facebook's "React Native" and Google's "NativeScript Angular". Though this is not directly related to MS but more JavaScipt apps directly benifit MS as JavaScipt is virtually platform independent and Devs will require little efforts to compile their JS app for Windows. 6. Surface Andromeda - unofficial MS's secret project aimed towards creating pocket PC. 7. Surface lineup - With Surface devices MS created a new all in one devices category and thus giving many PC OEMs an inspiration to create similar devices thus indirectly making them future ready for creating pocket Windows devices. Only time will decide whether they succeed this time or not. My guess is within a span of 1 to 2 years things will be crystal clear. What you think?
Suarahb, I think you are on to something there. Google is already attempting it with their Chrome OS, which runs web apps, Android apps, and now some Linux stuff.
"There will be no Windows 11 or 12"
this aged well
windows 11 is released
13 is coming xD
To be fair, this is exactly what Microsoft said back then. Not the fault of the person making the video. More the fault of Microsoft not being consistent on ANYTHING, not even on their announcements about consistency!
@@pharoah327 there is some who claim that MS never actually said this officially, it was a myth spread by one or two prominent people and the media ran with it. At least that's what I heard recently, I was never motivated enough to check.
was just going to write a similar thing
The main problem, from a developer's POV is that Windows has THREE different systems in it:
1. Classic Win32 and .Net Forms (classic desktop apps)
2. .NET WFP (modern desktop apps)
3. Win RT (aka UWP - mobile apps that can run on desktops)
Classic Win32 is the part that looks like Win7 and earlier. Some of the visuals have been upgraded, but it's still mostly that old style. Things like the control panel and the file explorer are written using this. It uses GDI+ and so can't handle things like complex animation or composition - so no visual effects or translucent layering. Technically, you CAN do it - but it's a lot of work.
WPF is a wholly independent system that uses DirectX as its core for visuals. It still uses Win32 for low level stuff like file access and networking, but can do very advanced graphics elegantly and easily. BUT... by default, it looks like.. Win32. Developers have to build their own visuals and so a lot of WPF apps still kinda look like Win7 apps... just with nicer touches and animation.
UWP takes WPF one step further by replacing the Win32 core with WinRT. This fixes all the old crufty OS bits that go back to 2000. It also provides a much richer set of user controls and design elements. This is where 'Fluent' lives. BUT... Microsoft originally intended this to be the foundations of Windows 8 and Windows Phone... and the idea was that desktop systems were dead and tablets and phones were the future. As part of that, they also introduced bizarre access restrictions that made sense on phones, like only allowing access to a limited set of folders and a serious permission system that forced users to approve almost every app's access to things like the camera or microphone, but that NO desktop user would live with for long. They also wanted 'apps' like iOS and Android that would run in full screen mode all the time. Again, ok for phone - not for desktops.
Worse, they completely misread the developer reaction to this because for some reason, when they designed UWP, they decided not to base it on .Net - which everyone just spent the last ten years learning - deciding instead that the world was going HTML/JS and C++. They had to VERY quickly throw together a .Net front end for WinRT and UWP that started out missing a lot of stuff.
I'm sure you can guess how well that went. Microsoft had to backtrack and in Windows 8.1 they started to wind this all back. They accepted that UWP wasn't going to be the first choice of developers for a long time, and that they had to make UWP compatible with .Net. Then they had to bring WPF up to a point where it wasn't quite so far from UWP in concepts and design.
They also quietly introduced a way for WPF apps to use UWP controls and code.. and just this year, finally made it official with real documentation on how to use it. Same with a 'composition' layer that will let WPF apps look and feel like UWP apps. Unfortunately, it just makes WPF apps more complicated for minimal benefits. On the other hand, they also reduced many of the restrictions and difficulties in writing UWP apps making it a little easier to write desktop apps using it.
They also open sourced pretty much all of this, allowing developers to 'fix' many of these problems.
So... long story short.. it's getting better. But there's still a ways to go.
Thanks buddy
Elaborate man! Good Work!
@TheRealBandito Do you mean Node and then make a desktop version using Electron?
@TheRealBandito Thanks a lot for the answer.
You are good. You have provided enough details enough to make s second part of this video.
New windows is like a Frankenstein. I even had one of my custumers that upgraded from windows 7 said that he thinks the instalation didnt complete because half of the system looks like the old one.
" I even had one of my custumers that upgraded from windows 7 said that he thinks the instalation didnt complete because half of the system looks like the old one." that has been the case with any windows 'upgrade' ever
I don't buy his argument. Hardware complexity doesn't mean they had to do it this way. Would make more sense to detect if you have a tablet and then using the tablet settings UI. Don't get me wrong I love the weather, money, news apps they work great in the desktop. But the settings should not have dual interfaces on a desktop
LMFAOOO
"Control panel and settings, that are basically the same app twice"
Yep, one that's functional, one that's decorative.
I hate Windows 10 because with every update they remove stuff from Control Panel to the buggy Settings app!!
Edit: This comment aged like milk, now UWP apps are faster more optimized
I wish they could bring back the old image viewer, the new one loads slow😐
@@natefiftystandards it is still included.. but you need to enable it -> www.howtogeek.com/225844/how-to-make-windows-photo-viewer-your-default-image-viewer-on-windows-10/
I always create a shortcut to "outdated design" control panel on every fresh install, seriously
@Nagato is better than Punk Naruto agreed
The neatest UI is the calculator mouseover effect... on an app where you mostly use the keyboard. Microsoft can't get a single one right.
Unless you are using a windows 10 tablet ;)
@@OfficiaFoxDeltaGames In which case there's no mouse to see the mouseover effect
@@boriszakharin3189 haha good one lol
I never use the keyboard with my calculator
wait you can use the keyboard in the calculator app?
Windows 10 will forever be in early access, change my mind
Guess Windows 11 did.
The longest running legacy UI as I remember was the font control panel. It had the exact same layout and UI widgets from Windows 3.1.
Uh the font control panel from win7 is different from the one in xp and before. Not sure about vista though, but enough to refute your statement.
@@jacquelineliu2641 Windows Vista was the last to feature that dialog box UI.
notebooks.com/2011/09/12/how-to-working-with-fonts-in-windows-7/
There is an SQL connection applet that to this day with SQL Server 2017/19 has the 3.1 UI
@@Wahinies SSMS is still supported but effectively replaced by Azure Data Studio
“There will be no Windows 11”
Aged like milk.
@@feba33 Technically still violates that promise though.
@@feba33 no you are not right
Ok, I'm sorry
There will be a Windows 12 but if any one is expecting big changes, don’t hold your breath.
yep
Microsoft never used to have these problems before. If you ran a Windows 3.1 program in Windows 95, it looked almost indistinguishable from a native Windows 95 program, because the old API elements were updated with the then-current design theme. Same thing with running a Windows 95/98 program in Windows XP -- it looked like you were running a program designed for XP.
But Microsoft started breaking their own rules and releasing software which created its own custom UI elements rather than relying on the Windows API to do everything, which made it impossible to provide consistency with future Windows UI designs. And that became pervasive enough across the industry that now they don't even bother to try to provide any consistency, even within the OS's own software!
Hardware really has nothing to do with it; the reason why this isn't a problem on Mac OS is that Apple is simply a lot more strict about requiring application developers (including their own!) to follow their OS's design standards. For example that's why the Mac version of Microsoft Office still has the traditional File / Edit / etc. menu bar at the top instead of just the "ribbon" -- because Mac OS requires it.
you answer your own questions, they used the same graphics API to draw the elements they just had to re-skin it. Now it is taking them time because they have to rewrite code, clean it and don't break anything in the process is not just the UI they are remaking, they are changing windows internally. because they want the same windows running on PCs with x86 CPUs and on mobile devices with ARM CPUs, while keeping compatibility. and trying to appeal the casual user, while keeping everything a pro user needs.
Microsoft has a huge problem because they don't have a sensible client API for desktop applications. Win32 (well, now it is called Win64, but that is essentially a port) is 25 years old and its graphics & widgets components (GDI, user32, etc) have not been updated in at least a decade. Its successor is twenty years late and we're still waiting. Every big new API written by Microsoft and announced like the next big thing has been actually a layer on top of the same old Win32 internals, a layer which could fit some scenarios and would fail in others. This has been the case with MFC, Windows Forms, WPF, etc, even with UWP.
They are not going to fix this, because Microsoft just doesn't care for the desktop. They have seen the stats and concluded that people are now migrating to the mobile and tablet space for their everyday computer usage, and that's where they want to be. Every new Windows app, widget, API or feature follows now a 'mobile first' mentality.
It's insanity. Windows 10 tablets are a niche market (hell, the tablet market itself is stagnant) and the Windows phones are dead. Microsoft's primary target is something imaginary. It just doesn't exist. Meanwhile, desktop users are punished with the full array of mobile 'features', including everything from a default installation of Candy Crush in your desktop to humongous buttons in their interface, not to mention the privacy and telemetry implementation, which mimics a modern smartphone.
In my humble opinion, they are doing this because mobile solved the Internet problem, something they had been unsuccessfully fighting since the late 90's. The Internet problem is all about people no longer using desktop apps, and going to some web page instead, something which was perceived to be a huge problem in Microsoft: if people just use the same web apps anywhere, Windows itself has no value to them. There has been a huge migration to the web for app development for more than a decade, and only mobile has been able to disrupt that trend.
Don't forget Windows 10 constantly telling users who don't have a touch screen to "tap here", intead of bothering to add the one extra line of code it would take to instead say "click here". And some of the notifications still pointlessly mimic the mechanic of swiping right to hide then even when you're using a mouse.
Yeah, there are a thousand of little infuriating things that make no sense on a desktop computer (in Windows 10 your computer is no longer a computer, now it is 'your device'). Windows 10 is a mobile first experience, even when nobody runs it in a mobile environment.
Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of the Windows UI. It was not perfect, but the traditional concepts (CUA menus, button bars, dialog boxes, common widgets) had been improved to the point where the experience was pretty solid and consistent between all programs. Everything from there has gone downhill: dynamically changing menus, ribbons, feature removal, web-like interfaces, flat design, mobile on desktop, etc. It is not just a case of change for change's shake, it is objectively a change for the worse.
A few days ago I installed Windows 3.1 in a retro machine just to laugh at the primitive software we were using 25 years ago. I installed a few extremely old programs (Wordperfect, Quattro Pro, a very early Photoshop, etc) and I'm not laughing anymore. All the modern features were already there. You had a WYSYWIG interface, advanced formatting with Truetype fonts, and every power user feature you could want including scripting, object embedding, mail merging, grammar checking, etc. As the software didn't have fancy animations on everything, and the computer was vastly overpowered compared to the period correct ones, everything was much, much faster compared to their modern counterparts. To be honest, I missed some few quality of life features we've grown used to, and the underlying technology was really fragile, so I wouldn't recommend anyone to go back to Windows 3.1 for their daily needs, but doing it for a day is an illuminating experience.
Software not only has failed to get better in 25 years, it has actually become worse. In some cases, much worse.
it feels like 20 different teams worked on individual parts of Windows and in the end it was all just put together and released without checking the final product.
It would also be like going to a restaurant where you are forced to eat a huge smoothy of blended slop from a buffet.
Ah, just like our University group project. Lmao
Thats actually pretty much exactly what happened. It's well known that the culture at Microsoft tends to be a bit toxic between departments, and with no core UI guidelines to follow you end up with a bunch of random ugly apps stuck together and a label saying 'Windows 10' being slapped on it.
They do that, I was a trainee in one of there offices in sweden (Lund skåne) and they worked on the photos app, they said in u.k they worked on the Paint 3d app etc. etc.
abls right
Not a fan of those design changes in WIn10. As a power user I want my Control Panel to have everything in a technical list with lots of tweaks, not like in that half-assed settings app.
Uhh.. create a folder somewhere with the name "Control.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}" (it doesn't matter whats in front of the dot; this is just the display name.. the important bit is the ID)…. Than you have your list. At least.. as close as you can get.
Windows “power user” 😂😂 windows power users are on linux bruh 🙃
Cyrian Genesis LOL you must be one of those business IT drones. Coders and sysadmins in tech companies have long since moved into using Linux systems or Macs for their desktops. Windows is workable, but you literally have to throw a kitchen sink of additional apps, programs, and utilities at it to get close to what you get out of the box with Linux and Macs (bash, built in terminal, gnu utils, python, vim, dev environments, etc), with the Mac getting bods for running pretty much anything that’s available on Windows and Linux getting nods for being able to mirror what you get on servers.
Cyrian Genesis if you work with a lot of computer systems then you should know that Microsoft will cease extended support for Windows 7 in two years. Saying it's the best for professionals is a tad disingenuous.
@Cyrian Genesis i didn't find any bug on win 10, while on win 8 everytime i openes my device i had different errors, even with no third party programs on it. Win 8 as a lot of people said it sucks.
While I'm used to the design inconsistency between different apps by now, having 2 separate apps just for system settings still gets on my nerves. It makes things hard to locate and also makes it more difficult to provide support to a less tech-savvy user over the phone. While I love the OS as a whole especially with the improvements made under the hood I feel that they should really make it a point to streamline the settings interface and to keep improving the consistency between apps.
I feel like in 10 years Windows 10 will be usable. Maybe that's why they named it Windows 10.
Why only some youtubers give consistent quality videos ?????
Dev Chawla cause they aren’t a large company?
Dev Chawla cuz they need money to do it
This isn’t a quality comment
Dave this also isn't a quality reply
Why i smoke weed all the time?
The device manager looked almost exactly like this way back in Windows 98, when it first appeared. Hell, Windows 10 to this day STILL contains code and hidden icons from Windows... not 95... not 3.11... from Windows 2.0.
It's Low-level Code so it is more difficult to redo it in Visual C#
And yet Windows struggles to run older apps compatibly. Just rework the entire OS from nothing and then implement emulators, MS!
Florian Schmitt bruh I can replace them using Resource Hacker.
They already had / have:
In Win 95/98 the 16 bit compatibility layer for 32 bit operating systems, WOW (Windows on Windows)
And as of Win 2000 the WOW64 compatibility layer for running 32 bit applications on 64 bit operating systems
And as of Win 10 ARM a x86 emulation layer for running 32bit applications on ARM systems
Funny you say that because that is what they are doing. Windows Core OS is that. They have multiple shells ontop of it. Like a Desktop shell, tablet, kiosk, HoloLens, Windows Mixed Reality, Mobile/phone and many other future shells that people can just add and remove. It is fast and small in size because the old code does not exist and Microsoft hopes to fade current Windows 10 into extinction but it will probably be decades.
That still doesn't explain why their designs feel so shitty.
It feels like they don't care about design, and it's just a side project they "have" to do.
No, they design with focus groups instead of hiring a single proficient designer.
Its because of the user they really want to put new design but users will revolt in changing it so it needs to cater from old and new users
I'll give you an answer: minimalism.
Fuck minimalism as an artstyle. It's disgusting and makes everything look so basic, instead of looking like there's some actual soul put into it.
That’s always been the difference between Apple and Microsoft, they have a better team work that allows them to have better designs, and most important, they don’t give a shit about users who resist and complain about changes. Microsoft should be more like Apple.
@@InsaneEnergy seriously how did it ever become big?
The legacy point you made hit the nail on it's head. But Microsoft isn't a small company, there is absolutely no excuse for it. There should be a toggle to have "legacy" or "modern" design turned on and the first would just offer the "old" programs, look etc (Kinda like in Windows 7 where you had win95/8 theme available).
They are doing this with Windows 10S, but again, people are freaking out "cause its not full Windows"
PixelzGaming
So, a seperate "legacy Windows," and "updated Windows"? That seems interesting, but I imagine some of the legacy code is needed, and once it's updated in terms of UI then having it on a seperate OS becomes moot.
Robbert van Nes Home and pro are already different in update timing. A new update i.e. 1803 is available for home users in you guessed it March 2018 and they will be updated at the discretion of Microsoft. Pro users get the update available when the home users have proven it is stable so it'd be available for Pro users about 3 to 6 months later and will be installed at the discretion of the user. The first version of Windows 10 from 2015 only lost support a few months ago. They could do the same thing with the legacy UI. But many would want the old UI and would be pissed to pay extra. Still a Windows 10 Pro OEM licence on the black market is only somewhere between $8 to $30 so I'd be fine with that.
Microsoft being a big company is actually the reason for the current situation.
Problem is that this are open API's. Hardware vendors can hook into many of them and provide control panels, windows explorer shell extensions. And they do their own drawings use their own icons. Of course all of this can be skipped but then people start complaining that they are missing in the new interface. And MS does value backward compatibility and will face huge penalities for breaking roadmaps and backward compatibility they promissed to governments and huge corporations.
MS Paint is incredibly quick and useful in a business environment where a screenshot with markup needs to be made as quickly as possible. i have the entire adobe cloud sweet, and snagit, etc but i still use paint every day in a business environment because it is so fast and easy for very simple things
Hans Zarkov you must be joking, win 10 already comes with, not joking, 2 screenshots apps. And... as you guessed... one looks modern and the other like win7 aero style.
Now, don’t get me wrong... but... pressing print screen and wasting time pressing a paste button + using tools that don’t allow indestructible editing (unless using undo command) and with a complex canvas resizer is awfully bad.
The native screenshot program isnt like lightscreen or sharex, but it surely beats off ms paint in terms of efficiency and ux.
@@ayalabaleeiro8398 Please name the '2 screenshots apps' that Windows 10 comes with? In our corporate environment WIN10 only comes with Paint, Paint 3D, and the Snipping Tool. The Snipping Tool does not have text. You have to click 'Edit with Paint 3D' to add text.
@@dumbcat Snipping Tool and Snip and Sktech.
i dont understand why windows dont let the user choose, if they want a typical desktop styled OS or a tablet styled OS.
TheSengard They did in Win8 but unfortunately too many stupid people were confused. And few people were willing to spend few hours to learn new stuff that OS offered. Instead people's started to cry that it didn't look and feel like old windows. Win8.1 was far better OS then Vista/Win7 and Win10 put together.
Stanisław Szczypuła i actually didn't liked the Startscreen instead of the menu. I also dislike the new search menu from win 10. I installed a classic Version of the windows 7 start menu on my desktop pc. I usually start my applications with pressing the windows key, type in the first letters and press enter. This doesn't worked on win 8 and does not work on windows 10, because it often shows irrelevant files before it shows the exe..
Yes windows 8 was not bad at all, but my favourite is windows 7 till today. Also a feature that is missing is the possibility to copy files and keep them by automatically rename them if a file in the folder already has the same name.
I think the Windows 8 start screen would be nice on tablet and touch devices, better than the start menu now.
If windows would ask by the first start which UI it should load a lot of problems would been solved, I guess.
They'll never let the user choose, because Microsoft knows what's best for you™
TheSengard but they do you can switch to tablet mode in win 10
how else they would teach you to buy their tablets/phones/xbox then?
i prefer the win7 design in win10 i.e. the control panel. there are much more options then in the normal settings, there you just have the standart stuff und much less information on whats going on.
I also like the old control panel because of its options, but Windows 10 is much better than Windows 7
the new control panel is just BS! e.g. you go in the display settings and you want the extended settings, then you are again in the old panel... wtf
I think the 7-esque designs are '10 enough to pass, unlike Win8 where it might as well have been one OS inside another
Control Panel is also faster and less buggy. Straight to the point, no bullshit.
Ugly, Flat, Dark, Minimalistic, piece of garbage UI that is windows 10
"There will be no Windows 11" - well...
I would argue that the inconsistency of the Windows 10 UI is _indeed_ a product of their incompetence. Windows 10 has to run on a much broader band of systems than Android or Apple for sure, but that's no excuse for a inconsistent UI, since it often is not just unfunctional but straight out ugly. In the video it is presented as they were thousands of completely different interfaces that Windows needs to work with, but that's not the case. It's either just classical input methods, touch or a mix out of both. Microsoft created that problem themselves by forcing them in the mobile market where things were pretty well established. Nobody asked for Windows on a tablet. For every exotic input methods there are special applications to make it work.
The reason why everyone hates Paint 3D is not because Microsoft changed something, it's because (again) they did a poor job. The soul reason for Paint to even exist, was to make shitty paintings and converting pictures into the right format. That's all for it was used and the App was perfect for what it was and no one wanted someone to change something with that. It could have used a more modern look that fits into the Windows 10 UI for sure. With Paint 3D we now have an App that can do everything that the old Paint App could, although it's way more complicated that it has to be (For example: try to turn a picture by 90° in the Paint 3D App), but on top off that is bloated with a huge amount of features that the normal user would neither need nor want. The Paint 3D App is a perfect example for what Microsoft keeps doing wrong ever since Windows 8. They take a good product, that everyone is happy with, but instead of updating and maintaining it, they try to make it a completely different product, which of course upsets the Users who were happy with the old product and makes them use the older version or a completely different non-Microsoft product, but because they do a half-assed job they fail to reach the group of people they want to acquire with the new product.
*Examples:*
Windows 7 = Good looking, stable running Desktop OS → Windows 8 = Poor looking Desktop OS that misses essential features for a good workflow like the Start Menu that has a weird UI for mobile devices instead, which makes it absolutely unusable on both devices.
They scared away the PC users, but couldn't really get a foot in the mobile market too, because it was as shit on mobile devices too.
Same thing with Paint now:
Old Paint = Simple program to make drawings and edit pictures → Paint 3D = Weird Mix between an actual painting program and a crappy 3D modelling program. Again it fails to do any of those two things correctly. No professional 3D artist or smth. does use Paint 3D.
It's like they didn't learn anything out of the Windows 8 disaster.
The 'Windows as a Service' approach with direct user feedback is innovative for sure, but it's no excuse for a cluster fuck like Windows 10. They don't seem to really care about user feedback anyway. If you take a look at the Windows feedback App, you'll see that the top suggestions are turning off telemetry and a consistent UI. They try to make it look like they care about the customer, but what they are actually doing is outsourcing the testing process to the end user. This is retarded.
Microsoft's real problem in my opinion is that they got no real strategy, there seems to be too little communication between different divisions inside the company. This probably is how something weird like Windows 8 came to be. Microsoft's back and forth with the Windows UI and their inconsistency in design choices just mirrors the back and forth inside the company and their division on a business strategy. It seems like Microsoft has some serious intern management issues. Another area where this complete lack of strategy is visible is their hardware section. With their surface products for example they try to be part of the hardware market, which they want to supply with their own OS. They attacking the very market that is _essential_ for them. Then they try to sell these products for way to high prices like if they were apple, but at the same time they do nothing to be anything like apple.
They seem painfully unaware of what the user needs and wants and they have no idea of what kind of a company they want to be.
What good reasons are there for the average home user for keeping using Windows 10? The only reason that I could think of are compatibility with certain programs and of course gaming. Not everyone is a power user or a gamer though. Why bother with Windows 10 which is clunky, buggy, ugly as hell, and updated slower than every Linux distribution out there, if i could use Linux which does all of that at least only exactly as bad but does not spy on me, is open source, and completely free?
I wouldn't agree that Windows 7 looks better now. It may have looked better back in 2009, and in fact it did, but for 2018 standards it does look quite bad.
You can switch to Windows 365 and run Windows in the cloud from your Linux desktop. The last excuse for not moving to Linux has vanished. This is more or less where Microsoft is taking Windows in the future.
Couldn't agree more, you nailed it! I think one of the reasons for this is that most of their customers are enterprise customers. I can't think of one single corporation that uses Mac computers (except for marketing, film making etc.). Apple accepted this fact as well if you look at their newest products (they kinda gave up on targeting business customers) and hence they target individuals and maybe some high-position managers in large corporations who can choose their own devices. Never change a running system, at the end of the day this is still one of the largest corporations worldwide and you can bet they do everything for a reason.
The Apple Human Interface Guidelines. When I worked at Apple in the late ‘90s, this was taken extremely seriously. You’d see that phrase in all the internal literature of the time. I never sensed that any kind of Interface Guideline was a priority at MS. I’m not taking sides here. I’m just saying that Job’s insistence that the user experience be priority number one was deeply ingrained in Apple culture when I was there. Everything Mac started and ended with it. Ask any old school Mac developer and they’ll probably confirm this.
Tournel Henry Sure, but those are the choices that both companies made and those types of cultural choices pervade in their products. At least that’s what I perceive
Microsoft is infested with hn1b1 workers. ITs appealing to the lowest common denominator and is trying to strangle its compitetors including linux with directx12 and making as many games dx12 as possible This will fail as they do stupider and stupider stuff. As a programmer i would never work at apple microsoft google twitter or any of these big name companies for how much they have harmed willingly american infrastructure and our security.
They are all scum and deserver to be treated as such for betraying americans for nsa money.
Unfortunately the guidelines, or at least consistency, seems to be increasingly discarded in recent Mac releases and new apps.
apple's UI consistency was one of the breaking points for me to switch full time to macOS a couple of years ago. originally i planned on a MacBook + custom built Windows desktop but I instead settled into a MacBook Pro + Hackintosh dual booting Win 8/High Sierra. UI and UX consistency are such important parts of macOS as a whole that it makes me wonder how i used windows for as long as I did, i dont have to think about how I use certain apps or how things are going to look. when I used to make Windows apps, I used to be very concious about which UI toolkit I used (i definitely preferred WinForms over WPF simply because it looked native by default) and even then I had to specifically import a special menu bar class to get a truly native menu. eventually, I knew what I needed to do and had all the apps I released consistent and native looking but it was still a few extra steps that i almost had to do on a per control basis and my inner OCD would obsess over the finer details or my apps. I still do that when I make apps for macOS, but i dont have to spend nearly as much time on it. 1-3 button classes that each have their own purpose and meaning, a single unified menu bar (which i also really enjoy using), and of course a consistent theme and color scheme across the OS. (some windows apps had a white background, some had a gray background. i had even once coded in behaviour to change this based on whether or not you were using Windows 7 or Windows 8).
i still use windows but not regularly, i boot it up to play games. I'm never turning back to Windows for productivity.
Not anymore, it seems. Nowadays, Apple looks like a random Linux distro. There is nothing that distinguishes the Mac from other operating systems anymore.
If everything looked like the calculator!
...than it would all still be as ugly as hell!
@@geoffk777 then make everything edgy with bright RGB and gamery looking edges! 😍 (Irony)
@@geoffk777 Mac OS is the only operating software that looks nice though
I personally like 3D effects and hate the flat look. And I don't want ugly bright colors (like the Windows 10 Tiles), but I do like pleasant subtle colors and textures. MacOS is too bright and flat these days, much like Windows 10. My preference is for Linux Desktops like Compiz+Beryl+Gnome3 or for Windows 7. But even XP's interface was better than Windows 10.
@@geoffk777 in other words, Ur style is from the early nineties.......
The Windows 7-era design is a lot more useful.
Still using win 7. Feels like maintaining an old vintage car from a company that no longer exists, but the design of the OS has aged quite well overall.
nope its not i am using it right now
But uglier.
@@HeavenlyWarrior who cares about the design overall? I care about usebillity. The new settingsscreen for example has only a fraction of settings then the old one has (thats why I am still using it). Also while you might call windows 7 ugly, it was really easy and efficient to do things on the system.
Also you seem to never have seen windows 2000 (I used this system for 8 years eventhought windows xp was out since 6 years) it was really easy to use, the only problem was that it had no support for better browsers and my pc was crap.
what I am trying to say is that I don't care how fancy some UI for windows looks as long as its understandable and does its job
I do care about the design, always did, it's one of the most important things for me. I know Windows 7 is very stable but compared to Windows 10 design, it's ugly and showing signs of very old age pretty fast.
I saw Windows 2000, it was like Windows 98 which I used a lot and then switch to XP which sometimes I still use in my 15 year old PC. Even back then I found Windows XP a bit outdated in design, only Windows Vista brought very good looking things but was terrible... Windows 7 is just like Vista in design, so when it came out was already outdated. Windows 8 is pure crap and Windows 10 have great design, at least the earlier versions, the 2017 and above versions pisses me off.
Vinyl noise is too high, mate. Lower it down a notch.
Microsoft's problem is this: they're trying to create an operating system that's both a PC OS and a mobile OS.....and that's a huge problem. Is MacOS the exact same OS as IOS? No, it isn't! *It's two completely separate operating systems!!!* And that's what Microsoft should have done! *They should have created TWO completely different operating systems: one for mobile, and one for PC!* The process of trying to merge the two is as disastrous as trying to merge the east and the west. It's just plain dumb.
thats what make me stay in windows 7 / and they wont understand
That's not a problem anymore cuz there's no mobile component now. Besides, Windows 10 is the most successful Windows yet.
well the base of macOS and iOS are the same OS called Darwin OS but the TopLayer which makes macOS to macOS and iOS to iOS are different
I think you don't know what you're talking about. An operating system is more than the UI and UX. Windows 7, 8 or 10 are entirely different from Windows mobile and then, Windows phone as well.
Infact, macOS and iOS are more similar than those different Windows OS.
As far as UI and UX are concerned, I think Apple should be consistent with their two OSs. I think they will, after they redesign iOS this year and macOS most probably next year.
It would be embarrassing for Apple that Google's two operating systems ie Android and Chrome OS seems to be more design consistent than Apple's, which was the company that forced them to develop 'Material Design' in the first place.
@@nadeemshaikh7863
Honestly? I think that you don't know what you're talking about. There's an obvious attempt to try to merge both mobile and desktop into one hybrid system. If you can't obviously see that, then it's because you are blind and can't be therefore you will never be reasoned with.
There was a time when the Windows interface was very consistent. It was the time of Windows 95 and Windows 98. I still like the old interface. It looked not very modern but the consistent interface made it nice to look at.
And you can also say the consistency was perfect during the vista/7 era
Am I the only one who think Win7 Aero is better. MS screwed it up when it wanted to go "touch OS" when introducing Metro (now called Modern) look. Win7 style looks good, and SUITABLE and functional for desktop environment (and also keyboard friendly). They just need to revise it for high DPI desktop.
exactly, and stupid Windows 10 with it's buggy UWP apps!
I loved aero too.
Ion D-worth Productions agreed. Slightly unrelated, but I like the windows 8 sounds better than 10.
Sorry but Windows 7 looked good in 2009. Not 10 years later. It's really good usable for sure.
Windows vista aero was actually better than 7's.
with XP, MS had mostly adopted a new UI style and redid 90% of the OS (including almost all icons). With Vista this was done again (vista's style included dark/black toolbars, left-facing icons using teal glass with orange accents… it was pretty consistent). With W7 the design was only halfway done (light blue toolbars, front-facing light colored icons… but 80% of the design was rather vista-style).
With W8 the startscreen and metro apps were completely redone, but Nothing on the desktop (bar explorer and taskmgr) was updated. Then with W10, stuff is changed every six months or so (W10 came with a new set of desktop and metro icons, only covering 25% of the OS, but then fluent came… so clearly it is not consistent and won't ever be again).
since W7 the updates are incremental, so we can say Goodbye to consistency.
They CAN offer a consistent Windows, they just choose not to. Windows 10 is a support nightmare. How to accomplish something (and whether or not it is even possible to do so anymore) depends on what build the person is on, which means to support Windows 10 requires being familiar with all possible builds that one could encounter. That means knowing all the "settings shuffles" and control panel neutering of Windows 10 builds 1507, 1511, 1607, 1703, 1709, 1803, and soon build 1809 as well. In each build, Microsoft strips out Control Panel functionality and forces it over to the Settings panel, but they are notorious for killing off Control Panel stuff despite the Settings equivalents omitting important settings or capabilities. It used to be that you could change a network from "public" to "private" using Network Connections in the Control Panel, but that was lost and HomeGroup was the only place to easily find a "switch" for that setting. Then they killed off HomeGroup functionality. In Windows 10 build 1709, to change a network from Public to Private after the pop-out prompt when you first connect is gone, you have to HAND-EDIT THE REGISTRY SETTING FOR THE PUBLIC/PRIVATE STATUS OF THAT NETWORK. When they worked on killing off Default Programs, they made it redirect to Default Apps which doesn't let you pick a single program and one-click associate ALL file types it can handle with that program; there was a workaround where one could run a batch file that invoked the old Default Programs panel, but now that's also going to just redirect to the Default Apps panel which STILL CANNOT ONE-CLICK ASSOCIATE ALL FILE TYPES.
I don't buy excuses like "we support lots of different hardware." That's a cop-out. Touchscreens were in use long before Windows 10. Also, Microsoft DOES NOT listen to the vast majority of user feedback. I have repeatedly reported many serious problems using their feedback mechanism and those problems persist today.
It always amused me that people would complain that the command line is too complicated yet as soon as anything gets tricky with Windows, it's off to regedit.
do you really need to edit the registry to modify it to private? damn that seems fucked up, in win7 it's just two clicks away
@@traso56 it is obviously not true, you can change it in 0 seconds, this guy simply doesn't know how
@@jaburuperneta Alright smart guy. Install 1803 and upload a video of the three clicks. Prove it.
@@jaburuperneta Wired networks. Edit: after updating it seems they snuck the setting for wired networks back in there. It's missing in stock 1803.
Love the series
Windows 7 is more consistent than Windows 10. Still using it after all these years. I dread the day when drivers will be unavailable for Windows 7. That's when I suppose I'll finally have to upgrade.
Darbyjack 2020 will be the final end of support Win 10 is better is certain ways than 7 but the ui is not as good as 7.
That just means they'll stop updating it. I haven't updated Windows 7 in a couple years now anyway. Causes too many problems if you have a complicated setup.
Give linux peppermint 9 a try..
Dipak Chakraborty, that is exactly how I feel. While I love the functionality and speed of Windows 10. I do miss the UI of Windows 7, especially the transparent window panes and such.
Drivers are already unavailable for win7. You can't even officially install win7 on new cpu's. Few years ago when I tried to install win7 on brand new Haswell platform win7 didn't even recognize network chipset on MB and didn't install network drivers so it actually didn't have any drivers at all. Soo after fighting with it for few hours I gave up and install Win8 and then "upgraded" to Win10. Although I'm not sure if it actually was an upgrade or a downgrade.
0:07 this is from windows 95 ... 23 years old :D
The device manager is. Everything else about it isnt.
It's not, the mmc based Device Manager was introduced in Windows 2000, so it's 20 years old, not 23.
windows as a service is a terrible idea. we are sticking to w7. i can't stress anymore if my pc will work like it was working last night before the new update was installed. lost devices... problem with drivers... u. i Frankenstein......settings/options constantly moving arround...spamwahere apps autoinstalling... long installing hours even on moderm ssd pcs.... settings and personal configuration like RDP licenses and privacy just reseting every damn time there is an update.... is SOME OF THE FRUSTRATION WE ARE GETTING FROM THE NEVER FINISHED windows 10 o.s.
Windows 7 SP2 to run modern hardware
@@joeschmo6927 Windows just sux period!!! Use linux and be done with it.
The native Win32 design in Windows 10 is consistently and looks better than the UWP design in my opinion.
Many years ago I switched to Linux Mint and never looked back since then. I only run Windows in VM when I absolutely need to use an old legacy program which is very rare.
why do people organize control panel by category?
i haven't done that since windows XP
Nobody uses category ,but they seem to use it to diss windows 10
Microsoft: I found this design in the traaaash! Do you like it? You WILL take it!
Lmao they totally said that
it's funny the model that Windows switched to for new OS's is basically the same way as most of the big Linux distros do with what's called a "Rolling Release" and for years Microsoft actively criticised this style of development for years but now use it for Windows 10 lol
There are numerous models that MS is now using that have been effective in the OS community for ages. Personally, I applaud them for (finally) taking it up, but it certainly proves a point!
windows itself has become rolling release but i would not call windows 10 rolling release, it definitely still has individual updates
WSL 2 actually makes Windows a very strange Linux distribution
The strange thing is Microsoft with Windows 11 is switching from a rolling release model to an LTS model with one big update a year. Much better for everyone, particularly for its enterprise customers, who want rock solid stability in running Windows. Its a long overdue change and gives the company more time to roll out well tested updates.
Other OSes, mainly GNU/Linux ones, like Ubuntu, Fedora, Chrome OS, Antergos or Solus do a better job at being consistent and doing whatever MS does to Windows. Two of them (Antergos and Solus) are rolling release, which means they don't even have specific releases, they just update components individually and eternally, and the other three (Ubuntu, Chrome OS & Fedora) have releases, to which the user can update without any big fuss (like formatting or whatever). Plus they all (could) support a wide range of devices, the same way Windows do. Yet they are all very consistent.
So no, the reasons are not the ones specified in this video. The true reason is that MS has lost control over Windows. You see, most people don't use Windows because they are Windows, but because of the compatibility Windows has with most popular hardware/software (graphics cards, VR headsets, games, creative apps like Adobe apps or FL studio, etc.) and because that's what people are familiar with. People don't need Windows, they need the stuff people make for Windows, and that's why people use Windows. Thus killing the old APIs MS had for ages, for which tons of software/hardware was made, for new, better APIs is a no-no: MS would lose all that that is keeping Windows alive. That's what happened with MS 8 (which people were unfamiliar with) and to Windows 10 S (Which did not support any of the old APIs, and thus was useless and pointless to software makers and people alike), and why Windows still lives even after several serious blunders (like failed forced updates). MS is now the puppet of its software creators, and its once main product is going to live until software creators leave the Windows ecosystem for a better, more widely supported, user/dev friendly and stable option, once Windows just becomes too cluttered, restrictive, unstable and android/IOS like (with a store that takes 40% of the app's revenue). And then other standards are going to be used, like web apps, which are supported by most OSes and devices alike. That's also why Windows can't sustain innovation anymore.
Does that remind something to you? Yes, it's the same as the IE tragedy. Once, websites were only created to support IE, and IE only lived only off the content that was exclusively created for it, until the ecosystem became so dated and restrictive, that other alternatives started to pop up (Mozilla Firefox & Google Chrome) and people (both devs and users) started using the competition. Today IE is nothing but a joke. Of course that happened in a matter of years, if not decades. And it was relatively fast, because the only thing the user needed to do was download, install and use a different web browser. The only difference however between the old IE tragedy and what is going to happen to Windows is that switching your OS is not as simple as switching browsers. Only tech-savvy people can do it, and many people can't get used to the new OS. Moreover catastrophic mistakes can happen. That makes switching OSes much harder, and thus the transition between Windows and other products much slower. It will happen though, it's only a matter of decades, in which licensing contracts between MS and manufacturers will end, lots of lawsuits will happen against MS for many more blunders, new products will arise, more mistakes will be made, Windows will be no more a viable option for businesses, will reach despair and will eventually become a joke, just like IE.
By the way all Linux OS are consistent than other family operating systems.
What I find funny is we're going to look back at windows 10 and think it's the ugliest outdated thing in 10 years. Everything has a metro theme now. We're living in a moment similar to the 80's. In the 80's they thought the style looked cool and normal but with time it looked ridiculous.
Sameridd ...so literally exactly how design works? A sedan from 1990 might have been sporty and sleek but now? Absolutely disgusting. Design evolves and changes with time.
Yeah, that's what I said.
I would disagree on this one... Some design elements are fasion, They come and go, like 80's brick cars, or 90s roundy and uninterestingly aerodynamics-focused designs.. Some designs are just good... You would be hard pressed to find people saying 67-70 Mustang is an absolutely disgusting design today, or 50s-60s cadillacs are disgusting... Just as majority will still be OK with XP's UI, and love Win7's aero design... 10 years from now Win10 will still look bad, and Win7 will still look good, IMHO...
I think some cars have timeless designs, for example Alfa Romeo 159. It looks good even today.
i think the 80s style looks cool
"There will be no WIndows 11" - Well that sentence didn't age well 😂
Still , there's an upgrade bottleneck of windows 11,gotta buy super new computer
@@washim-7867 that is sadly true
@@washim-7867 no. That’s wrong.
Even Linux is Consistent in design, you just install one theme for every program.
Ed Jonson I know right, why can't ms do that for windows?
Yea, just make every app use one theme engine and update the default theme from time to time.
But I think they don't care, they are getting money anyway.
david zwitser Because monopoly
Consistent UI but nox UX
Onur Şahin it's not even consistent UI
3 years later and Windows 10 UI still looks like something a bored high school student would rush out in IT class so they can go home and smoke weed
Basically me at 15
I think they fired all the UI personnel and had the programmers do the UI.
@@AndreasElf True Shit!
@@AndreasElf Nooooo, really? 😭😭
Exactly. I relate haha
The UI is alright.. but the windows store is atrocious. Nothing is organized in a good way. Also, the games aren't even categorized or grouped. Everything is just there placed randomly.
You are trying to say, that MS can't complete a simple UI swap on the very few built in windows applications, because they support more devices??? How would that even make sense? You design the UI on a very high level abstraction layer, far far above *any* hardware specific driver code. Its *exactly* *the* *same* as with OSX, KDE, Gnome, Android, etc. and they can all create a consistent UI-s! Sorry this is just not how software development works. At all.
Please, don't misinform people, try researching the field a little first, before making a video about it.
That's an excellent point. Beyond having to design for different scales or physical interfaces (e.g. the difference between using a 320px wide smartphone and a huge desktop monitor), there's no reason the interfaces can't be visually more similar, even if the low or even high level code underlying the visual elements has to be modified for different devices. At the very least they could have consistent color and styling.
Try to make an OS that can work with Mixed reality headsets, VR, Interactive Whiteboards, Tablets, Phones, Laptops, and Computers that looks good, clean, and modern. You'll fail
@@tegarpratama7755 As If! Whiteboards Tablets, Phones, etc. share the same touch based interface, so even MS calls this "Tablet Mode". The only other mode Windows supports is "Desktop Mode". You have a grand total of 2, only slightly different modes to design for.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness AR???VR???
And Windows Phone too
Recently gone back to 7
I'd much rather use a tested and rock solid OS than an unfinished and inconsistent product that feels like a beta (and with those frequent feature updates an alpha sometimes)
Besides, Windows 10 looks childish, simplistic, with solid colors that remind me of Windows 2 and absolutely hurt my eyes, and it doesn't even have half of the customization settings we used to have from 95 to 7
Denin Paul Windows 8 looked pretty nice in the builds before the final release, but then they removed Aero and gave it a cheesy look
By the way, I still prefer how in Windows 8 the traditional and the Modern UI are completely separate, so you don't have a mess of inconsistencies or two control panels on your desktop
Majin Bu they even closed the whole testing division for windows. Users and their feedback do all the work nowadays.
W10 gives me brain and eyestrain so bad that I can not use it at all... When support for Windows 7 runs out Linux / BSD and Mac OSX is the only option for me and many many other people. I predict Windows will soon be a dead chapter in computer history.
Jorelplay, that is probably the issue here. If you want contradictory statements from people who don't really know what they want or can't express it well, ask your users.
thats a terrible idea security wise
4:17 Well, Microsoft's inconsistency is coming to this area, which is "there is a Windows 11"
4:17 Didn't age well
Most underrated channel on YT!
joshx413 nah, but certainly a great one!
joshx413 underrated by whom?
Overrated audience?
Droid Tx-111 he's got under 500K subs. Nvm a million yes. He's underrated
Peter Thiel why u here then?
Millez then who is the most underrated?
Everything since Windows 7 has been cancerous. I hate using Windows every day yet don't see what other choice provides the same function. I just wish they had taken Windows 7 and made it slicker, slimmer, more customisable and more open. Instead we got an infestation of the lacklustre, tacky design language that looked outdated in 2012 and looks horrendous today. Flat squares and plain text. Hurr, what an original and dynamic idea. It's like they designed Word first and then made the whole UI using Word.
"Flat squares and plain text"... and bright ass, high contrast colours that'll turn someone with colour-vision colour-blind! The Windows 10 UI is literally painful to look at. The flatness, choice of font, text sizing, bounding box design, etc make it hard to tell what is simply text and what is a link or what is important information and what is irrelevant. With Win7 I didn't even need to read the text to know where to go in control panel, now it's almost all just a mess of text. It's as if they forgot how a UI is supposed to work
I never stopped using Windows 7.
Windows 7 will be my last Microsoft OS either can find ways to keep it going, go to another OS not made by Microsoft, or I'll just stop bothering with computers.
Grew up in the 90's without a computer wasn't until XP came out that really even bothered with computers and can go right back to it, though in the meantime will try to have fun with it but the sheen is wearing off fast with how things have been going.
speak for yourself. I like the simplistic and modern design of 10. Windows 7 looks painfully outdated
I use 7 on a new computer
Because they are busy adding "features" like new fonts in regedit and timeline.
My PC:
2016: Win7
2017: Win7
2018: Win7
2019: Linux Mint 19.2
We get it
Me too!
You should check out Zorin OS
IMHO if they have more customers than they can handle, maybe they have more customers than they deserve.
100% true. MacOS feels like stock Android in the PC world. Trying to keep Windows 10 as the final OS and slowly transitioning to a completely material design ui is so messed up. I wish it turned into a simple fluid design overnight. Having inconsistent and multiple design language actually feels like bloatware and crap all over😅
Microsoft now be like "let's make all design and icon flat and monochrome"
yes, please!!!
Why do I feel like it's tablet and phones fault for design downgrades for all other platforms? Especially for Pc users
It's not just Win10, but websites, macOS since yosemite etc.
It's a general trend. Back in the Vista/7 era, pseudo 3d designs, glass effects etc were the rage, because they weren't possible before.
It was new and exciting. But now, the cheapest system (e.g. Raspberry Pi) is capable of producing those effects. It got boring and it's rather distracting.
I grew to prefer the Windows 10 flat design over the Win7 design philosophy. But I mostly don't care. Give me a x64 Windows NT 4.0 capable of running modern software, and that's fine with me too.
@@maxmustermann1455 Eh I guess but it still makes me feel weird wehn using it if the programs don't have aero or at least some shading with rounded corners. Windows XP UI? Of course! Windows 10 UI? Definitely not. Windows 7 UI? Cool but when I turn off aero windowed programs run faster i.e 7-zip or even a simple file transfer
I loved android 4.3 design but then Google though it would be a great idea to make everything without shading and with windows 10 like program tabs. I mean why won't they just add a tiny bit of shading to their icons? It won't hurt them. There are even programs which do it automatically...and now the Google is forcing devs to make their app icons round and even placed a very ugly white background on the app drawer. Whenever I am in app drawer I can't see my phone's background like before and it sucks. OS companies just keep making their OS worse and worse. And do everything opposite to what consumer asks
Miku Wasn’t iOS7 just redesigning iOS to look more like Android?
"There will be no Windows 11"
sure
Before 2021
0:29 so their business model is incompetence? It figures ;D
Actually both of your arguments do not make any sense in "defending" the inconsistency of windows. First the diversity in hardware would be an argument for problems with drivers and hardware, but not for the UI. You might argue that touch devices require a different input scheme, but thats not the case with desktop and windows phone is dead. Second MacOS and many Linux distros are both "Software as Service" in term of ever changing, and both can get consistent UIs for their core apps since many years.
As matter of a fact, Microsoft was trying, in a bad attempt to copy apple, to push the "Modern UI" with windows 8. It failed, but instead of learning from that fail, they tried to rescue in into windows 10. Thats why that "control panel" App even exists. And worst of all even programs apps dont follow their own guidelines because the apps get skinned pretty freely. With Win32 that is not the case, you had to use the controls the way its meant to be. In the end its bad marketing meeting incompetence - no excuse.
before you read my comment, I assumed the modern design is flat design, since many modern operating systems are using it
actually, Microsoft is the first to introduce modern design back in 2006 on the Zune music player, apple then implement the modern UI on 2013
www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/flat-design-an-introduction
Oh yeah the Zune, another failed attempt to copy the Apple iPod. Modern UI is more than just flat squares and big fonts, in the matter of visual fashion I am perfectly sure we will see edged 3d, gradients and shadows someday again.
ipod in 2006 uses Skeuomorphism design not modern design
apple remove Skeuomorphism design in 2013 so no
here the design of ipod (2006) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#/media/File:Ipod_5th_Generation_white_rotated.png
and here's the design of Zune 30(also 2006) zune.wikia.com/wiki/Zune_30?file=Zune30-1.jpg
I'm super happy with my consistent and stable Linux Mint 19. It's wonderful to work with it.
Only disadvantage is when it comes to work with people who insist on Microsoft products. But that's a community problem and not one of the OS itself.
Same here. Linux is awesome
I'm so happy I moved to macOS from windows! I trust your feelings are similar to mine Martin Weber! Never been happier using a PC in my life.
Well, there is nothing better than Office, I don’t like Windows, but I have Office installed on my Mac.
ya i also use linux mint on my production machine and arch on my laptop. Linux desktop environments do have consistant design s/w
When it comes to Microsoft Design i always rage.
It's like building a city. They build one house and then blow it up again to build the same house again, but a little bit different.
There is so much in each new version where the same thing is now done diffently and you need to relearn it.
Look at Skype. I hate the new layout. The actual chatbox got smaller and smaller each time. The same functions just get moved around and renamed.
We are not making progress here, there are no improvements. We are walking backwards.
I think i will stay with Win7 for the next 10 years. It was a lot of work when i changed from XP.
And XP is still better then 10.
Depending on what software you use, you could see if Linux would work for you. Maybe take a look at Ubuntu MATE? It has an option that makes it look similar to the Windows XP UI.
I totally agree. It's horrendous
XP is still the best Windows ever made. Windows 7 has a lot of crap slowing down the pc, but certainly is the second best Windows.
XP was the best they came out with IMO
Just a heads-up: if you continue to use Windows 7 beyond January 2020, you'll be increasingly vulnerable to malware attacks, as Microsoft will discontinue security patches. Perhaps you already know this (why aren't you just using XP if that was the best one?), but I think it needs to be stated when "stay with Win7 for the next 10 years" is mentioned in a public discussion.
they should re-enabled the classic theme, it is under this mess after all
@Intel386, i have been using classic themes ( Win 2000 ) since 2000. Even had it for my XP & Win 7. Didnt use Win 10 for more than 2 days. Too much new things to learn
I have never used Windows 10 or even 8.x! I am still today using XP (from wich I am typing now) and Windows 7 is the last Windows I am currently using (Dual boot) :) And with the classic theme
I am Using Windows from about year 2000 too, I started with 95 then 98 then 2000 and I like just stuck on XP for ever :)
BTW My first experience With Windows was with 3.x in about 1994 :)
Just compere the huge hap between 3.x and 9x , even the gap between 9x/2k-XP and 8.x/10 is not to big
@Intel , I did use Win 3.1 , 95, 98 & 2000 , but never used ME.
But how does ur XP still work ? My browsers were not working very good in 2016 . So had to switch over to Win 7
I was using ME but only for testing to realize that it was peace of shit because there was very little device driver support from manufactures. It was the last DOS based Windows OS but with Win 2k interface .
Under XP am using the latest available versions: Firefox 59,2
Opera 35, and SeaMonkey 2.49 (Firefox based browser) for Adobe flash you have to download standalone installers manually from the website , they still support XP and may be 2k (current version is 31)
You-tube works perfectly , but many video web sites do not play normaly or at all.
BTW I am using x86 (32bit) Windows 7 and because my old Epson USB scanner and Realtek RTL8029(AS) do not have Window & drivers, I use XP drivers instead, and they works :D
My PC is from 2007 Core 2 duo 2.2GHz and 3GB ram
@Intel , I was using a Pentium 4 pinless 3.00 Ghz processor with XP ; 865 MoBo , so couldnt upgrade the RAM above 2 GB. This was till 2016.
But now I have i3 7th Gen. I didnt go for 8th Gen because they told me that Win 7 wont be compatible with 8th Generation.
Even with this I had a very hard time installing Win 7. Windows 10 got installed with no problems. Had to actually download a special tool from MSI website to make a Win 7 bootable USB. Something to do with GPT , MBR partition and that UEFI thing.
Never had to deal with all this headache during earlier days
Man, you have an amazing way of compiling a lot of information on a topic and delivering it in such a digestible way. I also appreciate the nonpartisan approach to the tech you cover. Thanks for your hard work!
"Has a windows 7 feel to it"
For win10, that would be a good thing...
haha!
Does this mean it's stable again?
Razor 404 are you seriously saying you only just started using Win7 AFTER 10? Are you fucking kidding me?
Windows 7 came out in 2009. Of course Windows 10 has more modern features and is faster.
But as someone who used Windows 7 from 2009 to 2015, I can say Windows 8 and 10 FUCKING RUINED the visual design of Windows, and Windows 10’s new FORCED updates BREAK my gaming machine with each new major build every 6 months.
What exactly about Windows 7 did you hate? Because I can go on all day about what I loved about 7 and what I hate about 10.
Win 7 looks like shit compared to 10. That's not a good thing. That also means a fragmented and terrible coherancy.
Can't say if you're right or wrong, but according to my experience, Windows 7 is faster, probably because my PC is not compatible with Windows 10 although it's 2011.
Yes, Windows 7 takes much more space than 10, but oddweirdly enough, Windows 10 looks more bloated than Windows 7, and slower also.
So not everyone is pleased with Windows 10, we should blame both Intel and Microsoft for that...
Windows 7 is better anyway. Seeing as support ends for it in 2020, I've already started the transition to Linux. I'll only keep Windows around to play games and certain software which is not produced for Linux systems, i.e., well really, just high feature video editors, which I don't use very often anyway.
same
Sadly all linux distros have package managers
I guess the guy who originally commented about package managers deleted his comment? Anyway, I like managing my packages using the command line.
Have you heard about Steam Play/Proton? It lets your run Windows games like they're native applications. You can even use controllers. Check out Steam Play Compatibility Reports to see which games you have work. You could also see if your video editor will work with wine on the Wine AppDB.
Who needs support? I always turn off updates after installing Win 7 on a computer and couldn't be happier.
“Windows 7 came out 9 years ago” oh fuck that hit me like a brick wall, starting to feel old god damn it
I miss Windows XP, XP was my childhood
You mean the default "Fisher Price" looks of XP? ;)
(btw, which I always reverted to classic style immediately after [re]install)
Mystic System millenial
Windows XP Silver Theme is the GOAT.
so install windows xp 2018 edition
Childhood??? Closest I could say for 'childhood' systems was the DEC PDP11/20 (and that was high school).
Even a linux desktop like ubuntu can be more consistant
Because it's made by people who do their job properly.
The impressive thing is, that for most it's actually not their job.
@@ymi_yugy3133 Yes, I know that.
@@ymi_yugy3133 If I was a CEO of Microsoft I would return it to how it previously was.
I guess that 80+% of users never have to open the control panel and can do everything from the new settings menu.
And for the once every month or so, that you have to dig in the inconsistency is no big deal. But for casual users the control panel can be quite overwhelming.
Now almost three years later almost nothing has changed
The old tech guys prefer win7 style because they are so used to knowing where everything is.
Qnd it also looks cleaner and more consistent
Me too
@@betaplay2914 except the new calculator but i use the old one cuz its faster and better for keyboard and mouse users
Even in Win 7 I run the "Classic" theme that makes it look a bit like Win2000. Win 10 looks like a whole make-up factory landed in a herd of goats.
What drives me crazy is how some app devs completely throws out any base UI guidelines for their app's windows. Many have the habit of creating the top of the window frame to whatever the hell they want and the Maximize/Minimize/ close window buttons is anything but the recommended size or design. Discord, Quickbooks Enterprise, WhatsApp, iTunes are just a few of such apps that comes to mind!
I was really pissed when MS released Windows 10. They took out some of the things out if the Control Panel and put it only in the Settings app. After that they even removed the resolution settings from the Control Panel and put them in the stupid settings app. Now the control panel is pretty useless even though it has so many sections😒
I wish they would just port everything from all the old programs and put them in the new modern apps already. Overhaul file manager, get rid of IE , paint and control panel and force people to upgrade from *Really old*, obsolete software. Or just make Windows 7 Enterprise and Windows 10 Home/ Pro separate.
Just A Person Settings is pitifully barebones and buggy.
E.g. there are duplicate settings in Settings that don't work and can only be set in Control Panel and don't sync with Settings. Backup is split between the new and old interface, funnily enough revealing this is all actually Windows 7 with stuff bolted on top.
Windows 10 is a cancer on Windows 7- for example Win 10 can and does ignore group policy and as I mentioned earlier doesn't sync properly with some settings.
Yea they hid everything and made things more complicated for people that likes to tune and adjust the system.
I rarely even touch the fluent design in windows 10. I dont use "apps", i have the start menu replaced with classic shell and i have some other ui elements modified.
@Leon.. I have done the same ... Changed everything to classic design as far as possible
I think when windows 11 comes along, I will switch to linux.
@Leon , isnt Linux for like brainy people ?
Yes and no. Most linux distros are very similar to windows with the point and click GUI. Most people will find Ubuntu very user friendly, but if they want to change a driver or something, it may be harder to so than in Windows. Most people don't even know what a driver is anyway.
Except if you're waiting for Windows 11, you'll never be installing Linux. Much like MacOS, Microsoft will stop making completely new OSes and instead refine Windows 10 continuously.
Windows 7 itself has a lot of Vista ui aplets and the credui.dll thats an Windows XP libraly with a lot of functions still used. NTVDM is an Windows NT 3.1 regment as the error message says "update the program to a version compatable with at least Windows version 3.0 or later" v3.0 of Windows came out in 1990.
another big giveaway is the fact that the menus in the 16bit programs use the Windows NT 4.0 gui. speaking of NT4 gui, its still the main gui and its just has layers on top of it. even worse the menu from Windows v2.0 is still present in the same spot as it was back in the day.
in cmd propeties window it still still shows the windows nt 3.1 gui.
the control panel is still from Windows 8.
the metro ui is aslo there, last updated by
Windows TP to make it esiaer to use with a keyboard and mouse. metro apps will have a menu with the charms options on the title bar and the charms aplets are still in the Windows 8 design. Windows 8.1 search charm is still present in the exact same spot. the Windows 10 1507 ui can still be found in newer releases.
Windows Vista ui is still present in Windows 10. credui.dll is still present and still used. Windows Vista explorer ui is aslo still present in %systemroot%\OfflineWebPages and %systemroot%\DownloadedProgramFiles .
Windows 10 metro UI sucks, for example i cant find crap in settings unlike the good old Control Panel recently they hide the network panel started to use Metro UI for it, i hate it as i always switch IP address...
have u ever right clicked the windows button? look at the list there.
u can also make a tile for old control panel. it's still there. just add a tile for it.
J Briggs i know its there but muscle memory
Dexter, I agree. Windows Metro UI sucks period. I use Windows 10 pro and essentially have the metro portion disabled. I then found the control panel and this computer icons and put them on the taskbar. I then get God-mode put on my desktop and I am all good.
Dexter use "God mode" Google it, you need to paste specific text as a folder name and that folder will become a super control panel.
See, right there is the problem: The UI is completely tied to the OS and the apps. It's not an overlay. Linux solves this issue by having the OS kernel separate from the UI. I can install several desktop environments and switch between them and the underlying OS and the running apps aren't going to care one whit about the interface. Granted, there are occasionally some apps that won't display quite properly based on the DE but there's usually a quick and simple workaround. MS needs to dump Windows proper for something more dynamic, provide emulation/virtualization for older apps for about three to four years (a la OS X when they switched from the classic Mac OS, and again when they switched from PPC to Intel), and then within a decade, MS would have an OS that could go through many iterations without worrying about breaking legacy apps. But they're just not smart enough to do that. Or brave enough. Or both.
Here, have an internetcookie. Well said.
I'll start with three quick examples that fully refute everything you wrote...
Xbox (360/One/X) - Windows 10 IoT - Azure NT
"OS kernel separate from the UI"
- The Windows Kernel is also separate from the UI, in fact the entire part of the OS that people see as Windows is just a 'subsystem' that is completely independent from NT. The Windows subsystem is the default OS subsystem, but this can be changed, and some versions of Windows NT don't even use the Win32 subsystem. With NT, not only is the UI separate, but the entire Win32 OS on top of NT is separate and can be changed, or replaced. (Something Linux cannot and will never be capable of doing.)
For example if Microsoft wanted, they could make the Linux Subsystem the default subsystem and either make Win32 work through this subsystem for display/input/etc or even fully remove the Windows subsystem, and have Linux running on top of NT, with a lot of advantages for Linux by gaining access to all the low level GPU technologies, agnostic scheduling, and driver capabilities of NT. (This is something you can look up - I recommend people start with the 1st or 2nd Edition of 'Inside NT'.)
"UI is completely tied to the OS and the apps"
- Even sticking with Win32 as the main OS subsystem, this still is not true. As a 'user' you can run a custom shell, windows manager, composer, and even use your own rendering engines. (Power on an Xbox for proof.)
Microsoft Partners and OEMs do this all the time with custom design built around Windows, from ATMs to highly specialized systems in use in engineering and manufacturing.
Trust me, I wrote code for X11 back in the day that you are still using on Linux. Ok, don't trust me, this information is easily available and you can reference everything I have mentioned for yourself.
The Linux 'extensibility fallacy' is something that needs to go away. The irony is that even though NT is not OSS, it is more extensible for end users than Linux, the only disconnect is that users don't seem to realize this and stick with what Windows ships with. In the 90s, users customized the heck out of Windows and Windows NT, and there are still users and groups that do this. However, for the average user, the Linux Myth convinces people this isn't possible, so they don't notice or look for ways to customize Windows.
T'he NetAvenger I believe you and thanks for the clarifications. But then how do you explain the awful mess that is still Windows 10 in terms of interface structure? When 8 came out, it could be argued that it was at best a beta, or proof of concept, or an attempt to move forward with a new UI. What struck me at the time (and I think it still is the case) was that 8 shipped with two distinct versions of Internet Explorer. The classic IE and the Modern IE. But both were self contained and had absolutely no communication with each other. I get the fact that one was based on the Win32 API and the other on the Modern API (HTML5 and Javascript I believe?) If you made a bookmark in one, it wouldn't be reflected in the other. I would think that both programs should have been pointing to one common place for something as simple as bookmarks. But nope. Then we get to the Control Panel. Again, I realize the classic Control Panel and Modern Control Panel are different, but why do we need both? Why are something things replicated and other things only available in one or the other? If that's changed by now, color me surprised. Honestly, I can't stand using 10. I still like 7 a lot, and tolerate 8.1 as it came pre-installed on my tower and I keep Windows around for games, but other than that, for me at least, Windows has become a hot mess that I just can't and don't want to deal with. In my opinion, 10 is really 8.2, just more confusing and not worth the hassle that comes with it. MS has had several years to sort this shit out and still hasn't been able to do so. Makes me wonder if it's just plain laziness or if there's still some legacy code under the hood that needs to be modified in order to make one coherent kernel and UI.
I have seen a lot of these "Microsoft Partners and OEMs do this all the time with custom design built around Windows, from ATMs to highly specialized systems in use in engineering and manufacturing. " and they are most often just a an application overlayed over the normal windows OS interface of older version of windows or windows CE.
Also all that stuff you mentioned about running linux over the windows kernel or Windows over the Linux kernel isn't just not supported in Windows 10, Microsoft is in constant fights with 3rd party software vendors that try to access the underlying kernel directly.
The Windows 10 Kernel is currently going through a series of changes where it is abstracted and gated by a hypervisor so that the kernel and the lower level APL calls will no longer be accessible at all by 3rd parties because it leaks like a sieve when pen tested.
The core issue is that win32 is creaking pile of garbage riddled with ancient codes that needs a complete rewite (remember longhorn) but the codebase is so large and fragmented and the internal politics of the company is so disfunctional that it will never happen.
Yeah, the Windows internal separation is probably nice from an engineering standpoint but for the purpose of this discussion, it is not really relevant. Most of the interesting stuff is happening above that division.and that is where Windows lacks the separation that makes the difference. This is how come we have the amazingly successful Android which rapidly took over a market Microsoft chased for decades and how come people are working on alternatives to X11 (though I confess I'm an X11 fan) without any major issues.
I think the biggest elephant in the room is that Microsoft wants the mobile market but has no idea how to reconcile that with their desktop offering. Thus Windows 10 is a horrible hodge-podge of both ideas, satisfying neither. They failed in the mobile market because their OS offering was not mobile-centric enough. Now they've shuffled in a bunch of stuff and it's still not mobile centric enough but now it's also not desktop-centric enough on the desktop. It needs a whole separate interface for both but the architecture and the culture at Microsoft doesn't really allow that.
We had Windows 11 for almost 3 years and Windows 12 will also come.
Quite frankly, it's a shame that Windows Explorer hasn't gotten any proper updates. This is perhaps one of the most important programs on Windows and regardless of how good your machine is the thing is too incompetent. Windows Explorer is always crashing and is easy to manipulate, it's one of the many things that needs and update and we simply haven't seen that.
"Windows Explorer is always crashing" Not in my world.
@@jn1mrgn I use a last gen i5 and before I switched to Linux trying to load things from an SD card would freeze the computer, it got to the point where even loading the desktop folder took more than 3 minutes just for like 6 files and shortcuts despite having Windows Defender up and a clean install.
@@ananasupreme check your disk usage. I can't say for certain but I think one of your drives is failing. If you see above 80% disk usage for any of the drives while being idle, that's the issue. Happened to me so I know.
@@ananasupreme Either youve got a hardware problem, or your bullshit for the fuck of it. Ive got an i5 7500 rx 460 and ssd and have none of these peoblems on 10.
Yeah, it blows goats. This is the whole reason I use Directory Opus.
4:18
Me in 2021: "Ha! You fool!"
“There will be no Windows 11”
Watching on Windows 11...
In Windows 10 there are two settings apps: Windows Settings and Control Panel.
Ah, a good TA video to go with my breakfast. Always a good start to the day.
I was just thinking the same thing as I sip my smoothie
Well, it's a dinner or before-bedtime affair for me
This looks to be false info for me.
They really only code the kernel for x86 and x86-64 arches...
From there you have standard libraries to allow your apps to work on everything else no matter the syscalls...
The argument that windows has to support as many computers is false. They actually support just the CPU and the generic drivers... Its up to hardware designers to make device drivers to interface with the hardware and kernel.
The windows design could easily be changed and consistent... Its called portable code. It isn't hard, you just have to learn to use APIs which make things even more simple.
Look at Linux, its huge but it supports a lot of arches. The only other thing they have are modules which can act as drivers. Linux themselves don't have to support them. They just expose syscalls, which can be used in APIs to make things portable and work on every Linux system.
Portable code... Its useful.
sadly visual studio is kinda leading developer to make monolithic softwares. starting with incompactible compiler across versions, obsfucation of simple stuff, and so on.
the flaw runs deep and simple polishing won't fix shit.
btw i just realized microsoft start approaching linux community because they want to sell support for devs instead of doing OS, that is after current clients move to azure infrastructure.
You can count me as someone who prefers Windows 7. I presently have two hard-drives on my computer, one which runs 7 and the other, 10. My two biggest gripes with 10 is that 1.) it doesn't have the auto-play feature for importing photos from an SD card to my hard-drive, which included being able to name them however I like prior to importation, and 2.) the mp3 and WAV files I recorded and edited in my Sound Forge app in 7 don't make a sound, when played in 10, despite looking like they're playing--as if there's some encoding glitch. Both developments are worrisome to me, since I'm supposed to migrate completely over to 10, next year. I'm hoping there can at least be a "virtual machine" I can use for my Win 7-compatible apps on the same hard-drive. For longtime freelancers like me, continuity can be as important as upgrades. (Also, the 7 interface may be retro by today's standards, but it's still friendlier than the subsequent versions.)
Maybe one day, they'll come up with a more modular form of upgrading and customization, where users can retain what they like best about earlier versions of their operating environments, while being able to run the latest apps.
i mean, if i use window Pro version, they at least remove the whole window setting crap!
what the point of window setting? there are barely any setting that i tinker around except personalization, update and that's it!
why don't fuse Control panel and this new window 10 setting into one?
dauxanh 64 being able to share hotspot/connection settings also is okay with the windows settings.
They are fusing them, moving elements from CP into settings slowly, but the transition is painfully slow.
Nawar El Sabaa It's really terrible how slow it is. I mean how much work can it be to add a fucking setting to settings, can't be more than few lines of code.
I consistently install the newest update for my Classic Shell start menu. Can't stand the Win10 start menu, it's useless for me, I'm looking for files and folders and program directories, not "apps".
F Szabo And classic start menu was not crap? Lol. So why everyone ends up with half of desktop covered with shortcuts so they can avoid using that presious classic start of yours. On every f**** windows since Win95 !!!
He’s probably not talking about Win95-2000 era, you dipshit.
DeanStuff any type of start menu made by Microsoft was garbrage when compared to Linux menu. Actually the one in Win 8 was somewhat usable. At least I was able to pin shortcuts to start screen and have my desktop free for files.
Stanisław Szczypuła You could do that in Windows 7 too.
Microsoft should focus on making their OS and their apps "bulletproof", rooting out all the memory leaks, stack overflows, etc. that allow malware attacks. Let the basic functionality of their software stay unchanged for a year or two, just make sure it is bug-free. Sadly, that isn't going to happen. We really don't need fancy 3D graphics in the basic design of an OS.
XP > 7 > Vista > Everything else
Windows hasn't been the same for me and I'm gonna hold on to 7 as long as I can.
where would you put 2000 on your spectrum?
@@SayAhh I never used Windows 2000 to the same extent I did the others so not sure. I'd probably put it between Vista and Everything else though same with Windows 95. I'd rather use those if I could than 8 and 10 that's for sure
Windows 10 is so bad that I have less trouble adapting to Linux Mint... I have had to use use W10 for a year at work and I will never ever use it myself agian, it is so bad that it gives me physical discomfort using it. Windows 7 is faster and better in every way.
Even basic things like Windows Explorer aren't fixed. When one selects a folder and expands it, Windows Explorer jumps the folder to the bottom of that window so that all the child folders are hidden. This doesn't happen always, but often enough to annoy, if one uses Windows Explorer every day a lot. Also if one doesn't select another folder soon enough, the Explorer decides to expand something or jump back where the folder is selected and or something.
its like the people responsible never even used their own OS for everyday tasks. if they did, they would have fixed windows stealing focus 20 years ago. i guess even MS developers use Linux for their personal stuff.
I've been waiting for your Nokia 7 plus review.
The Windows "registry" is the worst invention for an OS.
DLLs are a security nightmare too😭
@@hereb4theend OS/2 or the revised - ArcaOS has none of that.
Why? I'm more on the consumer side, so I may not understand, but from my experience of it, it seems ok.
@@minorseven2791 Your response shows you do not understand. The messed up Windoze registry impacts all who rely upon that OS. This is one reason that Windows can not be certified to manage life support systems - it is just not reliable.
@@bobcatt2294 why is it not reliable?
Pasting a table from excel into outlook was a nightmare. Colour palettes aren’t really shared across office programs. People talk about Apple’s distortion field, but there is a serious level of distortion around how frustrating many of the “quirks” that arise from Windows and Microsoft’s own software running on Windows. I know of more than one thesis that was nearly obliterated by bugs in Word, one of which was known across multiple versions. When you grow up accustomed to a thing, it can take a lot of pain to figure out that it actually causes you grief and wasted your time, and it could easily be otherwise…
Yes, I agree with everything. However, there is no reason for them to at least (whilst keeping the classic apps in the background - just hidden) make new, modernized versions of old apps - with complete functionality (not just some). Good example is Edge and the Settings app. Edge is a complete new app, and Settings wants to be a Control Panel, but some of the functionality Control Panel has is missing from the Settings app (but it's getting expanded time to time, so I feel like it's getting there). Some apps are critical: we need a new File Explorer. All the ones from third parties are bad. The ones with good design and look lack functionality. The ones that have functionality look even worse than the current File explorer. We don't need a new file browser to do everything the the way the current File Explorer does, but it needs to be somewhat customizable, efficient, nice looking and comfortable to use. If the current File Browser had a dark mode, and the icons could be made bigger all-throughout the UI, we would honestly be quite close to what we actually need, imo.
Dark mode for file explorer is coming in the next fall update.and the "reveal" and "acrylic" designs are being expanded into more apps. The updates are a bit too iterative and slow, though.
1:40 I actually prefer older design
The funny part is you can get mods that take care of the issue. I like the direction they're taking, known as Fluent Design. Acrylic as they're calling it (The frosted glass effect) is really quite nice. But progress is so slow and it's just getting frustrating to look at anymore.
As an end-user (and a tech professional), I don't care about Microsoft's business model. Windows 10 is a crap product that I'd gladly switch away from, given the opportunity. For now, Windows 7 still does the job.
Only use windows for gaming,rest everything Linux,ever things mostly plug n play lesser bugs too
I love linux on desktops, but oh god oh fuck i hate it on my tablet. There's a lot of fuckery with the touchscreen, there's a lot of fuckery with screen rotation on the login screen, there are problems with sleeping mode, there Are problems with touchscreen windows button and god bless you if you try operating anything more than a browsers search with on-screen keyboard
Also xinput_callibrator does some black magic fuckery with my screen
I’m sorry, but there are just too many programs that still don’t work on Linux that I can’t force myself to switch. If it ain’t broke (or _too_ broke), don’t fix it.
I've always been complaining about the UI inconsistancy. This video has some what satisfied me with a glimpse of what's going on with the UI. Thanks a lot! Why don't they create 2 theme sets, one is legacy theme and the other is fluent design theme. Either theme the users selected, they have all API of both style so they can create apps with fluent design on a legacy system.
Hi Tech Altar,
I remember you did one video "Why app won't matter in the future" and I am surprised that you were quite closer in predicting the future trend that too in 2016. I want you to please make the follow up video for the same.
These are my observations about how MS is slowly and gradually creating a whole ecosystem to re-enter the mobile market (I may be wrong). I am just trying to connect the dots.
1. PWA (Progressive Web App is a Web App developed using HTML, CSS & JS behaving like a native app - jointly promoted by Mozilla, Google and MS). If this succeed, most of the 3rd party Devs will prefer PWA over native apps thus bridging app gap.
2. UWP (Universal Windows Platform) a common API for developers for "write once run every where" Windows 10 apps targeting broad range of devices.
3. Windows 10 on ARM - running Windows 10 on Snapdragon 845
4. Natively touch optimized Windows 10.
5. Rise of cross platform native JavaScript apps using Facebook's "React Native" and Google's "NativeScript Angular". Though this is not directly related to MS but more JavaScipt apps directly benifit MS as JavaScipt is virtually platform independent and Devs will require little efforts to compile their JS app for Windows.
6. Surface Andromeda - unofficial MS's secret project aimed towards creating pocket PC.
7. Surface lineup - With Surface devices MS created a new all in one devices category and thus giving many PC OEMs an inspiration to create similar devices thus indirectly making them future ready for creating pocket Windows devices.
Only time will decide whether they succeed this time or not. My guess is within a span of 1 to 2 years things will be crystal clear.
What you think?
Saurabh Palatkar pocket windows: GPD pocket www.amazon.com/LANRUO-Pocket-Aluminum-Windows-x7-Z8750/dp/B0721SKXQJ
Suarahb, I think you are on to something there. Google is already attempting it with their Chrome OS, which runs web apps, Android apps, and now some Linux stuff.
WHY... not let US choose between 2 UI versions???