Odd, the comments here would indicate no one has read Perry Marshall, James Shapiro, or Denis Noble. None of the comments reflected any understanding of what Perry was discussing or why the Third Way movement is significant. The Third Way has nothing to do with Intelligent Design. If you’ve not read Evolution 2.0, Evolution-A view from the 21st Century or any of Noble’s books, than please read them and come back to the interview.
I wrote above: 1. I'm sorry this is so much nonsense - it is not science. It is non-science: i.e nonsense. THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM . The problem is those viewing this are Not self aware you are Not speaking nonsense [non science]. You are literally not aware. When you say things like consciousness BEFORE matter - its pure spiritual bunkum. When you say convergence of "Spirituality" with science -its injecting mysticism, bunkum, outright delusion, literally delusion into science. SCIENTOLOGY is NOT science. Many Christians say it is not even Christianity but that's not my concern as Christianity is itself mysticism, equivalent to all other bunkum. 2. I do enjoy the updated theories of evolution. However the evidence pertaining to Dawkins is 'way greater' (way greater) than Denis Noble. Noble admits [rarely ] that he has a mere hypothesis. Dawkins' neo-Darwinism is beyond mere hypothesis.
The idea that G-d created everything and that things change, grow, and adapt should NEVER have been oppositional or somehow enemies- they are NOT mutually exclusive concepts.
@@bryan3dguitar I never stated that things do not change, grow, and adapt-- do not assume a position I did NOT express. I merely said things doing that, the processes of evolution, are NOT oppositional. Only the most hyper-literalist evangelicals argue this so vehemently (and I disagree with them on that entirely).
No one is contesting adaption and variation within certain limits, or Baramins, but using the argument that since dogs and wolves and chihuahuas have a common ancestor, then by extrapolation bananas and pine trees and kangaroos also have a common ancestor is similar to the logic that if I begin jogging and in my first month I can jog a mile in 12 minutes, and after jogging for six months I can jog or run a mile in six minutes, then after a year I should be able to run a mile in one minute. There are certain biological limits to change, there are parameters. You may through selective manipulation grow a larger peanut, or a larger grape or apple, but you will never succeed in growing a 200 lb peanut, or a peanut that would have an orange peel on it's surface.
@@JamesFoard-le3nz AGAIN... I NEVER DISPUTED THOSE THINGS... just said that those happening don't exclude the idea that God exists. Just as you noted that it's not proven, THOSE THINGS DON'T DISPROVE IT. You keep saying these same things, which I am NOT debating or disagreeing about, like it's a "gotcha" thing... and it's not. You AGAIN made the inane leap _I NEVER SAID_ to defend your point - " then by extrapolation bananas and pine trees and kangaroos also have a common ancestor"
In the beginning, the things that are difficult to explain at present, i.e. the scholars did not reach anything to prove or refute that, likewise, there are issues that are difficult to solve, such as the soul, which is from God’s command, and other issues that lie outside the knowledge and awareness of humanity, and therefore we only give opinions to discuss. God created consciousness (laws, sins, etc. above all). For this, the topic on Creation is long to be explained in order to be accepted logically, but we give only the main points. When God wanted to create mankind, knowing that all creation came from water, therefore, God took through the angel from the soil of the earth as a slurry (mixed with water) and then shaped it in the human form, and then breathed into it the spirit, which brought life and instincts into it. And since Satan has the ability to whisper (infrasound frequencies), therefore, a person receives this information, even if it is not perceived by the ear, but the heart perceives it through sensory receptors, which are translated in the brain as if they were internal desires, and not as it was said that the serpent seduced Eve. For this, Adam was the first human to be created, as before him were angels and demons, and then, at the beginning of Adam's creation, he began to acquire knowledge, especially when he ate from the tree that God prevented him from, as both Adam and Eve were unable to see their nakedness, and after they ate from the fruits of that tree, their nakedness was revealed, and before that it was veiled, as neither of them sees the other's nakedness. As for the wives of the children of Adam, that the offspring of Adam procreated from his son Seth, and as for Abel and Cain, God sent down to each one of them a nymph from Paradise to marry. And since God created Adam from his loins Eve, it may also be that God created a woman from the loins of Seth to be his wife, as well as with Japheth, after which the sons of the brothers Seth and Japheth married, and humanity reproduced since that time. Although there is a saying that God sent down two women from Paradise to marry Seth, and the other to Japheth. In addition to this, that since every action of the individual is of his own free will, and thus, the psyche has the tendency of evil and good that because the human psyche is bipolar in terms of debauchery and piety, therefore, it issues urging orders for the negatives and positives in order for the individual to perform it, then it is the task of the free-will of the individual in terms of obeying or rejecting those stimuli, as well as having the justification for actions and it is from the awareness that characterizes the nature of the human psyche. And God made the psyche bear evil and good in order to scrutinize the faith of the individual and his ability to confront himself, and therefore He made Paradise for him. As for children, are they born sinners ? Thus, every newborn is born on instinct, but it is affected by the surrounding factors around it, such as the parents, who play a role in the mechanism of the child's behavior, and after that, the human being has free-will over his actions,(whether the child or others) and thus, the individual is not directed by his actions, so every action that the individual does, in turn, leaves a mark in the heart, which accumulates in the heart, giving weight to his social inclinations and his faith beliefs (i.e. the electromagnetism of the heart that directs the inclinations of the individual) that affects his psyche, and therefore these sub-trait which in turn determine the path of the individual, and therefore he may turn towards evil; or good, and there are consequences, and punishment in the Hereafter is Heaven; or Hell.
great interview. His brother suffered the consequence of what many in the "frum" universe are taught from a very young age (ie God placed dinosaur bones in the fossil record and many other ridiculous arguments) A smarter way is to explain the fallacies in The Darwinian Theory as well as the other theories such as Intelligenclt Design
"A smarter way is to explain rhe fallacies in The Darwinian Theory as well as the other theories such as Intelligenclt Design" You are a puddle that thinks the pothole you live in is somehow specially made for you, because you fill it so neatly. ID is bunk.
You maybe interested in Bible History, Time Lines, Characters, Bible Prophecy. Bible History will draw you into a deeper study and desire to know Christ and his love 🙏❣️
@@frosted1030 @kc Cox When you don't have a Good argument to respond with, many like yourself resort to lowest common denominator...trash talk. Sorry won't be joining you there I've studied Evolution both at the University level and privately over the past 20 years. The parameters and the entire Theory itself have changed so dramatically Darwin wouldnt recognize it ...
"God and evolution are fully compatible." Your imaginary friend has nothing to do with evolution. It's like someone saying "Harry Potter is real because he is fully compatible with gravity." WTF are you on?
Our poor comprehension of time is always going to be an issue for most people when trying to fathom evolution. That and a fear of the unknown so great they'll accept anything, however ludicrous, to fill the gap.
Keep strong. Dont forget that despite the evil in this world, God is full of justice, mercy and love. Justice said we broke His perfect law - causing the world's previous perfection to be destroyed - and therefore we deserve Hell (like a punishment in any legal system but this is eternal as His perfect law is eternal too). Don't think you fit in that category? Ever done one of these?: lying, stealing - regardless of how small the object EVER, hating others - which is murder in God's perfect law, lusting (plus God sees our entire thought life). Justice says "the soul that sins shall die". BUT, mercy said "I dont want to give them what they deserve. I don't want them to be cut off from Me. I love them despite all they have done/will do against Me. I want to give My children another chance. I want them to come home and live in My love again". And love said "Jesus, God's Son, came down as a Man, our representative, suffering every temptation, pain and struggle we have ever faced, yet without sin. He took all our sins (past/present/ even future) to the cross and then crucified EVERY ONE on our behalf. Justice was paid on the cross so that we can be free from Hell's punishment, experience Gods mercy of forgiveness of sin and live in His love. If we turn from the sins we have committed and repent (turn away from our sin and pursue the opposite direction of love through Christ) He will, overtime, recreate us back into that previously perfect image through The Holy Spirit which Jesus sends to all who accept Him as their personal Lord and Savior of their life. He is in Heaven right now preparing a place for us so that He can take His faithful, believing children home with Him when He returns. He will ressurrect us from death when He returns, giving mercy to those who accept His love, instruction and teachings in their life, and give justice to those who refuse it. He doesn't want ANY of us to go to Hell and die for continuing in evil and rejecting His way to life, thats why He died FOR us. He wants us to be His and begin to follow His life of love and service through Him (not ourselves as it's impossible without depending on His power and instruction). So long as we keep our hearts near to Christ through His strength, strive to obey His will of perfect love revealed in the Bible, and ask Him to help us in the midst of (very certain) pitfalls and struggles, we will, in time, win the victory over sin, pain and DEATH through Christ. Even if you are willing to be made willing, or struggling or doubtful, simply be honest and tell Him that. He is not intimidated by ANY sin or struggle you are facing. ANY. He hears and will answer. If we pray for Him to come in, regardless of the condition, then He will. NOTE: You are NEVER too sinful or messed up that God cannot turn your life around through Jesus. EVER. If you have any questions let me know Xxx
So, it's Lamarckism again? Giraffes have long necks because their parents and earlier ancestors stretched their necks? And they all hoped and prayed for longer necks?
Im sorry why is a you ng earth ridiculous? Im not saying i buy all the arguments. I have no faith in new proteins being created randomly through mutation, none at all. Now fat as the time thing is concerned. If mutation is out then why use time at all? If course I'm not God. But i thought of an impedance question to everyone. If the earth were young and nothing else was different such as star distance or the speed of light. Or the was radar works or Lcms machines or anything. What would it matter? And would anything really change other than the earth being young. Id appreciate any answers thought brain storms, insults. More simple what would change if the earth was young under 10k yars old?
Um. I seriously didn't understand the questions trying to be answered here. Like, what is the hypothesis put forward here to which the current theory of evolution fails?
Actually, for those of us who have read Marshall, Shapiro, and Noble, the interview made perfect sense and was rich with information and implications. Your comment only shows you didn’t have the background to understand the interview.
I think what’s hilarious is that even those who took issue with evolution considered intelligent design to be less credible. That one thing tells you all you need to know. QED. I think what both of these people are completely missing is that even of you could remove a theory that had such a preponderance of evidence to support it, the god hypothesis is not the answer, anymore than Einstein’s theory of relativity overturned Newtonian Physics. As for the probability discussion, as an expert in probability modelling, I found it hard not to fall off my seat guffawing. Not only are these people clueless, but they don’t have the slightest idea that probability when correctly modelled and calculated (to include chemistry and physics) not only does not deny the theory of evolution by natural selection, but affirms it and shows that it is entirely consistent with observation. 😳😳😳 This really is so stupid I can’t even be asked to show the faulty reasoning in play here.
@@anyhighway808 Nope. The current model ls perfectly adequate to explain the data. Do not let creationist religious nut jobs give you hope. Recall that in this very interview it was stated that design models had no explanatory power
@@anyhighway808 There are already many plausible mechanism all consistent with one another. So yes, I guess it’s possible that one could be nailed down, but it seems unlikely
@@josemoody1743 When a scientist uses the term consistent with observation they mean two things. First is that there are multiple observations, usually in order of hundreds or in some cases even thousands of independently attested observations. Second is that no observations contradict the theory. It’s really very simple.
@@plasticvision6355 Well , if there are these supposed 100's to 1000's of independent observations showing evidence to support Orgins of Life or the main machinations of Darwinian Evolution , you should share them with the rest world. This discussion and 10's of thousands of others would never take place.
@@geobla6600 You really should try educating yourself. Had you done so you would quickly realise just how stupid your and ill informed your question actually is. The fact you ask it at all is evidence enough that you just can’t fact check what’s being argued because you prefer to believe those promoting utter nonsense.
Odd, the comments here would indicate no one has read Perry Marshall, James Shapiro, or Denis Noble. None of the comments reflected any understanding of what Perry was discussing or why the Third Way movement is significant. The Third Way has nothing to do with Intelligent Design. If you’ve not read Evolution 2.0, Evolution-A view from the 21st Century or any of Noble’s books, than please read them and come back to the interview.
I wrote above:
1. I'm sorry this is so much nonsense - it is not science. It is non-science: i.e nonsense. THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM . The problem is those viewing this are Not self aware you are Not speaking nonsense [non science]. You are literally not aware. When you say things like consciousness BEFORE matter - its pure spiritual bunkum. When you say convergence of "Spirituality" with science -its injecting mysticism, bunkum, outright delusion, literally delusion into science. SCIENTOLOGY is NOT science. Many Christians say it is not even Christianity but that's not my concern as Christianity is itself mysticism, equivalent to all other bunkum.
2. I do enjoy the updated theories of evolution. However the evidence pertaining to Dawkins is 'way greater' (way greater) than Denis Noble. Noble admits [rarely ] that he has a mere hypothesis. Dawkins' neo-Darwinism is beyond mere hypothesis.
The idea that G-d created everything and that things change, grow, and adapt should NEVER have been oppositional or somehow enemies- they are NOT mutually exclusive concepts.
God is a concept with no evidence to support it. There is lots of evidence that things change, grow and adapt.
@@bryan3dguitar I never stated that things do not change, grow, and adapt-- do not assume a position I did NOT express.
I merely said things doing that, the processes of evolution, are NOT oppositional.
Only the most hyper-literalist evangelicals argue this so vehemently (and I disagree with them on that entirely).
No one is contesting adaption and variation within certain limits, or Baramins, but using the argument that since dogs and wolves and chihuahuas have a common ancestor, then by extrapolation bananas and pine trees and kangaroos also have a common ancestor is similar to the logic that if I begin jogging and in my first month I can jog a mile in 12 minutes, and after jogging for six months I can jog or run a mile in six minutes, then after a year I should be able to run a mile in one minute.
There are certain biological limits to change, there are parameters. You may through selective manipulation grow a larger peanut, or a larger grape or apple, but you will never succeed in growing a 200 lb peanut, or a peanut that would have an orange peel on it's surface.
@@JamesFoard-le3nz AGAIN... I NEVER DISPUTED THOSE THINGS... just said that those happening don't exclude the idea that God exists. Just as you noted that it's not proven, THOSE THINGS DON'T DISPROVE IT.
You keep saying these same things, which I am NOT debating or disagreeing about, like it's a "gotcha" thing... and it's not.
You AGAIN made the inane leap _I NEVER SAID_ to defend your point - " then by extrapolation bananas and pine trees and kangaroos also have a common ancestor"
@@bryan3dguitar I don't have time for your anti God crap right now. I have to go feed some feral cats.
In the beginning, the things that are difficult to explain at present, i.e. the scholars did not reach anything to prove or refute that, likewise, there are issues that are difficult to solve, such as the soul, which is from God’s command, and other issues that lie outside the knowledge and awareness of humanity, and therefore we only give opinions to discuss. God created consciousness (laws, sins, etc. above all). For this, the topic on Creation is long to be explained in order to be accepted logically, but we give only the main points. When God wanted to create mankind, knowing that all creation came from water, therefore, God took through the angel from the soil of the earth as a slurry (mixed with water) and then shaped it in the human form, and then breathed into it the spirit, which brought life and instincts into it. And since Satan has the ability to whisper (infrasound frequencies), therefore, a person receives this information, even if it is not perceived by the ear, but the heart perceives it through sensory receptors, which are translated in the brain as if they were internal desires, and not as it was said that the serpent seduced Eve. For this, Adam was the first human to be created, as before him were angels and demons, and then, at the beginning of Adam's creation, he began to acquire knowledge, especially when he ate from the tree that God prevented him from, as both Adam and Eve were unable to see their nakedness, and after they ate from the fruits of that tree, their nakedness was revealed, and before that it was veiled, as neither of them sees the other's nakedness. As for the wives of the children of Adam, that the offspring of Adam procreated from his son Seth, and as for Abel and Cain, God sent down to each one of them a nymph from Paradise to marry. And since God created Adam from his loins Eve, it may also be that God created a woman from the loins of Seth to be his wife, as well as with Japheth, after which the sons of the brothers Seth and Japheth married, and humanity reproduced since that time. Although there is a saying that God sent down two women from Paradise to marry Seth, and the other to Japheth.
In addition to this, that since every action of the individual is of his own free will, and thus, the psyche has the tendency of evil and good that because the human psyche is bipolar in terms of debauchery and piety, therefore, it issues urging orders for the negatives and positives in order for the individual to perform it, then it is the task of the free-will of the individual in terms of obeying or rejecting those stimuli, as well as having the justification for actions and it is from the awareness that characterizes the nature of the human psyche. And God made the psyche bear evil and good in order to scrutinize the faith of the individual and his ability to confront himself, and therefore He made Paradise for him.
As for children, are they born sinners ? Thus, every newborn is born on instinct, but it is affected by the surrounding factors around it, such as the parents, who play a role in the mechanism of the child's behavior, and after that, the human being has free-will over his actions,(whether the child or others) and thus, the individual is not directed by his actions, so every action that the individual does, in turn, leaves a mark in the heart, which accumulates in the heart, giving weight to his social inclinations and his faith beliefs (i.e. the electromagnetism of the heart that directs the inclinations of the individual) that affects his psyche, and therefore these sub-trait which in turn determine the path of the individual, and therefore he may turn towards evil; or good, and there are consequences, and punishment in the Hereafter is Heaven; or Hell.
The only reasonable paradigm is Intelligent Design.
This 💯 📠
We have been taught wrong information in school it's all one sided, same as history, it did not start with the Tudors
great interview. His brother suffered the consequence of what many in the "frum" universe are taught from a very young age (ie God placed dinosaur bones in the fossil record and many other ridiculous arguments) A smarter way is to explain the fallacies in The Darwinian Theory as well as the other theories such as Intelligenclt Design
"A smarter way is to explain rhe fallacies in The Darwinian Theory as well as the other theories such as Intelligenclt Design" You are a puddle that thinks the pothole you live in is somehow specially made for you, because you fill it so neatly. ID is bunk.
You maybe interested in Bible History, Time Lines, Characters, Bible Prophecy. Bible History will draw you into a deeper study and desire to know Christ and his love 🙏❣️
The smarter way would be accept the reality of Evolution and stop begging science to change to suit your religion.
@@brettallen7632 love is the most important. It’s why we’re here
@@frosted1030 @kc Cox
When you don't have a Good argument to respond with, many like yourself resort to lowest common denominator...trash talk. Sorry won't be joining you there
I've studied Evolution both at the University level and privately over the past 20 years. The parameters and the entire Theory itself have changed so dramatically Darwin wouldnt recognize it ...
God and evolution are fully compatible. The Catholic Church doesn’t see an issue
"God and evolution are fully compatible." Your imaginary friend has nothing to do with evolution. It's like someone saying "Harry Potter is real because he is fully compatible with gravity." WTF are you on?
So what?
😊
We are amazing beings, 😇
Our poor comprehension of time is always going to be an issue for most people when trying to fathom evolution. That and a fear of the unknown so great they'll accept anything, however ludicrous, to fill the gap.
Keep strong. Dont forget that despite the evil in this world, God is full of justice, mercy and love.
Justice said we broke His perfect law - causing the world's previous perfection to be destroyed - and therefore we deserve Hell (like a punishment in any legal system but this is eternal as His perfect law is eternal too). Don't think you fit in that category? Ever done one of these?: lying, stealing - regardless of how small the object EVER, hating others - which is murder in God's perfect law, lusting (plus God sees our entire thought life). Justice says "the soul that sins shall die".
BUT, mercy said "I dont want to give them what they deserve. I don't want them to be cut off from Me. I love them despite all they have done/will do against Me. I want to give My children another chance. I want them to come home and live in My love again".
And love said "Jesus, God's Son, came down as a Man, our representative, suffering every temptation, pain and struggle we have ever faced, yet without sin. He took all our sins (past/present/ even future) to the cross and then crucified EVERY ONE on our behalf. Justice was paid on the cross so that we can be free from Hell's punishment, experience Gods mercy of forgiveness of sin and live in His love. If we turn from the sins we have committed and repent (turn away from our sin and pursue the opposite direction of love through Christ) He will, overtime, recreate us back into that previously perfect image through The Holy Spirit which Jesus sends to all who accept Him as their personal Lord and Savior of their life.
He is in Heaven right now preparing a place for us so that He can take His faithful, believing children home with Him when He returns. He will ressurrect us from death when He returns, giving mercy to those who accept His love, instruction and teachings in their life, and give justice to those who refuse it.
He doesn't want ANY of us to go to Hell and die for continuing in evil and rejecting His way to life, thats why He died FOR us. He wants us to be His and begin to follow His life of love and service through Him (not ourselves as it's impossible without depending on His power and instruction). So long as we keep our hearts near to Christ through His strength, strive to obey His will of perfect love revealed in the Bible, and ask Him to help us in the midst of (very certain) pitfalls and struggles, we will, in time, win the victory over sin, pain and DEATH through Christ. Even if you are willing to be made willing, or struggling or doubtful, simply be honest and tell Him that. He is not intimidated by ANY sin or struggle you are facing. ANY. He hears and will answer. If we pray for Him to come in, regardless of the condition, then He will.
NOTE: You are NEVER too sinful or messed up that God cannot turn your life around through Jesus. EVER.
If you have any questions let me know
Xxx
Engineering suggests that evolution has thought or an end goal. This is the issue.
"Engineering suggests that evolution has thought or an end goal." Engineering doesn't address biology. WTF are you on?
Natural processes don't need god magic to work and Evolution doesn't have goals or an end. There is no issue.
@@brettallen7632 Where does "natural processes" come from?
So, it's Lamarckism again? Giraffes have long necks because their parents and earlier ancestors stretched their necks? And they all hoped and prayed for longer necks?
What absurd conversation.
Lol. 😂 if evolution 1.0 would be any good we wouldn't need 2.0.
Im sorry why is a you ng earth ridiculous?
Im not saying i buy all the arguments.
I have no faith in new proteins being created randomly through mutation, none at all.
Now fat as the time thing is concerned. If mutation is out then why use time at all? If course I'm not God.
But i thought of an impedance question to everyone.
If the earth were young and nothing else was different such as star distance or the speed of light. Or the was radar works or Lcms machines or anything.
What would it matter?
And would anything really change other than the earth being young.
Id appreciate any answers thought brain storms, insults.
More simple what would change if the earth was young under 10k yars old?
Omg get to the point. Literally didnt explain anything.
Um. I seriously didn't understand the questions trying to be answered here. Like, what is the hypothesis put forward here to which the current theory of evolution fails?
Lots of arrogance in this interview. Also an enormous amount of ignorance. Your engineering should look into the massive mistakes of evolution.
"Your engineering should look into the massive mistakes of evolution." You must be high. How do you fit such an ego into such an ignorant package?
There was very little information in this interview and so it's a waste of time to watch it.
Actually, for those of us who have read Marshall, Shapiro, and Noble, the interview made perfect sense and was rich with information and implications. Your comment only shows you didn’t have the background to understand the interview.
So, sad his brother turned away from Christ and His Church.🙏
I think what’s hilarious is that even those who took issue with evolution considered intelligent design to be less credible. That one thing tells you all you need to know. QED.
I think what both of these people are completely missing is that even of you could remove a theory that had such a preponderance of evidence to support it, the god hypothesis is not the answer, anymore than Einstein’s theory of relativity overturned Newtonian Physics.
As for the probability discussion, as an expert in probability modelling, I found it hard not to fall off my seat guffawing. Not only are these people clueless, but they don’t have the slightest idea that probability when correctly modelled and calculated (to include chemistry and physics) not only does not deny the theory of evolution by natural selection, but affirms it and shows that it is entirely consistent with observation.
😳😳😳
This really is so stupid I can’t even be asked to show the faulty reasoning in play here.
@@anyhighway808 Nope. The current model ls perfectly adequate to explain the data. Do not let creationist religious nut jobs give you hope. Recall that in this very interview it was stated that design models had no explanatory power
@@anyhighway808 There are already many plausible mechanism all consistent with one another. So yes, I guess it’s possible that one could be nailed down, but it seems unlikely
@@josemoody1743 When a scientist uses the term consistent with observation they mean two things. First is that there are multiple observations, usually in order of hundreds or in some cases even thousands of independently attested observations. Second is that no observations contradict the theory. It’s really very simple.
@@plasticvision6355 Well , if there are these supposed 100's to 1000's of independent observations showing
evidence to support Orgins of Life or the main machinations of Darwinian Evolution , you should share
them with the rest world. This discussion and 10's of thousands of others would never take place.
@@geobla6600 You really should try educating yourself. Had you done so you would quickly realise just how stupid your and ill informed your question actually is. The fact you ask it at all is evidence enough that you just can’t fact check what’s being argued because you prefer to believe those promoting utter nonsense.
Another cheap trick by religionists. Sorry, that doesn't make the facts go away or excuse your lack of facts.