the wall kick/grab idea is GENIUS! it's actually my favorite part about real world swimming it's crazy that no game (as far as I know) has incorporated it. it seems like such an obvious mechanic.
KH1 Atlantica is fine, but it's pretty limiting and slow compared to the other worlds. KH3 Carribean is pretty great, with good exploration and swimming controls. KH2 Atlantica is an abomination.
A good exception is Majora's Mask Zora form. The swimming in that game has such good controls. Quick, responsive, and with a magic barrier attack that keeps you moving.
If splatoon had a water level I’d imagine it’d more of be like an aquarium kinda thing or giving you a suit that seals water and if could be a gimmick like cracks in the glass or you have to keep the suit sealed with air.
I was thinking of a potion they could drink so that water wouldn’t sink to far into their skin, with the effects only lasting after clearing the stage. But there would still be an air meter.
I think tropical freeze have some of my favorite water levels, period. One of them doesn’t even take place underwater- it takes place in a JUICE FACTORY. You’re swimming around in pink juice to avoid sharks and giant juicers. It’s so good.
Most of the time in video games, I am mentally propelled AWAY from water like a magnet. The only time this hasn't happened for me that I noticed is in Majora's Mask. Once you get the Zora Mask, swimming becomes SO much more fun because it is faster and you have more control. Perhaps if games were to add an item or ability early on that made swimming faster and more fun, maybe the water levels will become more bearable.
@@Mike14264 depends on the kind of game. Getting the Zora's mask is special because it lets you do that. If it were like that from the start, where would the excitement be? Also, the gravity suit in Metroid would just be an armor upgrade if moving in water wasn't so horrendous without it
@@Clepto_and_Co yeah, I was still in the mindset about platformers when I wrote that... my bad. But yeah, maybe these items could be introduced before most water-heavy segments, and at least have default swimming not be a total pain...
I think Ori’s Luma Pools are amazing. The controls are pretty good, the switch between underwater and land is a key element and you can absolutely shoot out of the water. Also the environment is not the generic beach theme it’s a magical shell place with pink trees and it looks really good too
I 100% agree. It breaks the usual water level trope of slow, boring gameplay, and instead is a gorgeous area filled with interesting elements. It also has slower gameplay with a breath meter at the beginning, but it uses them effectively as part of the design, without it being shoehorned in and monotonous.
If there’s any game that does ocean levels well it’s Rayman Origins/Legends. They have it all: -No oxygen limit -Underwater Schmovement -diverse environments It’s good trust me
Ah yes rayman legends, one of my fav levels are those underwater spy levels. And ori 2 has really really nice water movement too (once you have the upgrades)
As an aspiring game designer, One of my life goals would be to revolutionize water leves for the reasons you described in the video And yes we should talk about the super chad Minecraft 1.13 water movement more often
6:02 This might sound weird, but Roblox in my opinion has a great water system. In the game Quill Lake, you dive underwater and collect artifacts. You have to first unlock freediving training, then a scuba suit, then specialty scuba suits designed for extreme heat, extreme cold, eradiated water, and even a disguise to enter a ghost pirate area. Basically, the deeper you go, the more stuff you have to do to successfully enter that area. It also has a blur effect is you're in an area that is dangerous to your current diving setup.
Except for that one water level in Triple Deluxe’s world Endless Explosions, because it’s a hybrid water/lava level. Most of the others are fine and the Forgotten Land ones are *really good* for water levels.
Your production quality and value over the years man, I’m shedding a tiny tear. S’beautiful And I’m right there with you. Beautiful colorful ocean life, FLUID controls, it’s untapped and ripe for good gameplay!
There is so much work put into these videos. The art and animation in this one especially is stellar and it's so visually engaging. You did not need to go this hard but I want to be vocal about how impressive it is!
You know, I'm actually on a game dev career path, so, once I'm able to get started, I'll take your suggestions and ideas into consideration! I agree, the ocean, and underwater environments in general, have SO MUCH POTENTIAL.. unfortunately gets wasted.
There's also a game themed around water: ABZÛ It's a short indie game with very beautiful environments (and music--) You can grab onto large fish and swim along with it. You can even jump out from water!! Feels amazing I'm actually surprised I don't see it mentioned that much
Well, I think the answer to all these things you asked for is the horrifying game I bought and never got out of the first area. Subnautica. It’s really easy to swim, there is the depth you mentioned, and it’s incredibly diverse. Problem is it’s so scary with the leviathans.
I played the game A fish screamed and exploded I uninstalled the game I am too scared of water in games in general even in mario galaxy It doesn't feel slow It feels scary
You can literally tell how the developers themselves dont want you to spend much time in the water, why would they otherwise limit your oxygen so you have to leave the water every few moments? Now that I think about it, that is really a weird design, them giving us a very limited time to spend in this environment they designed for us... they must hate water levels as much as everyone else
It's easy to SAY that... Now let see all the playtester in the WORLD not understanding why the water in your game control like outer space without oxygen in your game because that's more fun... You will see pain.... mentioning But still... Sure we can still find it easily in Mario because he is a cartoon character ( In Mario Odyssey for exemple they resolved the problem by having you possess fish which is.. How you swim most of the time actually )... But for Monster Hunter ? Much much harder because realism come back. A very important rule to Game Design is to have something that feel "natural" in order to not explain anything to the player which is most likely why this design choice isn't as weird as the youtuber say it is.
when i played mario oddessy i turned off assistant mode when I got to the lake kingdom bcus it (assisted mode) lets you breathe underwater. I was SO confused trying to find the boss fight w/o arrows lol
I’ve never watched one of your videos before but this was amazing, the visuals and ideas were all perfect. Although it doesn’t mean much from one random person, you’ve earned a like and subscribe without a doubt 👍
I think the best example is the zora mask from majoras mask. No breathing and jet ski controls makes it super fun if only the great bay had went deeper underwater and had more enclosed areas and swimming challenges.
@@ArtistLunatalia I only played the 3ds version and even I think it was one of the best examples if the original was even better than that's pretty awesome.
The Spyro trilogy had my favorite water levels. Sometimes I'd revisit them just to...hang around. There was no oxygen mechanic so there was no rush. It was just pretty.
@@GetMadz hey! Umm, I’ve been making a lot of these comments but, have you heard of Subnautica? It’s got good swimming mechanics, there is still oxygen requirements (that you can upgrade), the depth and darkness thing, diverse biomes, pollution, terrifying sea creatures, etc.
@@milesperhour2286 That was actually the third game he showed during the positive settings section, when he said “those are the only two.” As for why he glossed over it, I think your last point makes it pretty clear. I’m actually more surprised he didn’t mention Abzu. I haven’t played it myself, but from what I’ve seen and heard, it’s a 3D game you spend almost entirely underwater, but the controls are nice, and the environments are absolutely beautiful.
@@michaelnelson1127 he did show it. But I had to really focus on the gameplay because he says something that sounds like a game that I couldn’t recognize in that section.
Wow what a great video!! It was an interesting essay with great humor, great tunes, and FANTASTIC consistent visuals!! You and your team can consider yourselves a new source of inspiration for me and I'm sure many others! Keep up the juicy content! Easy sub :)
If there’s one game I think has good underwater levels, I’d have to say Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Sure, yeah, slippery controls, but that’s pretty much a given in underwater levels. But there are enough movement options to keep it interesting and fast paced more so than other games. And I noticed the art style improvement! It looks great!
the fast movement and especially the variety of scenery/gameplay elements makes the underwater levels in tropical freeze some of the best. amiss abyss has gotta be my favourite underwater level I've played in a game. and they actually managed to make an underwater boss fight decently fun.
Subnautica has got me be my favorite water based video game of all time it's extremely fun and if you haven't played it you should definitely give it a try.
Kirby epic yarn has exactly what you're talking about when it comes to pressure. More specifically with the dolphin power up and I've got to say it's real fun to mess around with :)! It also proves it can be done
Kingdom Hearts 1’s Atlantica is legitimately one of the most painful gaming experiences in the industry, from the stupid dolphin mechanics to the abysmal Ursula final boss, it’s just a sad mess all around.
And then KH2 went "Y'hear about rhythm games?" And also "You arbitrarily can't progress any further here in Jolly Roger Bay, come back later when you have The Thing that we decided you need" And the most laughable part is all you get for it is a Keyblade that boosts ice damage [so, y'know, Blizzard] and is as such only really useful for Data Axel [if you're playing Final Mix] and whatever other things have an ice weakness
And then there is Lego, which basically just said "Walk with Powerup, swim without it" and then they basically still say the same thing except for Pirates of the Carribean, where they added the breathing mechanic to limit your swimming. Also, yeah, Minecraft is cool, I loved their swimming mechanics except when I am hungry and I don't have food because I want to set up a farm. And finally, your art really did improve since I first seen you in 2017 and last saw you back in 2020! Really neat to see you up here.
5:17 I haven't heard that name in a while. All jokes aside though, Gloo Gloo is one of if not the best water level in terms of controls and stuff like that
I like how Shovel Knight did water. Your speed stays the same but your jump is enhanced and your descent is slightly slower. More control, less restrictions, adds on to the overall gameplay.
I'm honestly surprised that Spyro 2 and 3 (Original controls specifically) wasn't mentioned here! I always used to adore their water levels, it was so smooth and fun to charge through the water. Maybe try those levels out and see if it compares?
@@GetMadz They're a tad bit more slippery in the Reignited Trilogy, as you don't come to a complete stop unlike in the original games if you stop moving/charging, and your turns, at least to me, feel wider- but they're still extremely passable and nice compared to most 3d games and how they handle swimming! In my opinion! Also, no holding your breath underwater mechanics! The closest they ever get to that is one section in Spyro 3 in a late-game world, and that's because you have an invincibility power up and you're swimming in ACID! It's cool stuff!
I love how in Mario kart the underwater makes you more floaty and faster in currents. Plus some of the best tracks in the series are underwater. Koopa Cape, piranha plant slide, Wario Shipyard, Dolphin shoals etc
koopa cape in mario kart wii actually has normal driving physics, as you are surrounded by a glass tunnel. mario kart 7's version is a different story, that was underwater.
Actually a great video. perfect Idea and execution. Your content is the prefect blend of comedy and actual talk about game design. You and GMTK are some of my fav youtubers :)
Ok I'm going to make a niche reference: *Jumpstart* They had an underwater area and it was so fun; no breathing, big open world, fun quests, you could walk on the floor or swim, it was so good
Can we address how In 3D Mario games (With 3D World as an exception) Mario has an air meter, but in the 2D Games, he can swim underwater fine without an air limit. 🤔
I think it's because in 3D World and the 2D games it's linear and focused on getting to the end of the level and not collecting things so having an air meter there would be even more pointless and make the game just worse
I know a 3D game that dose water levels really well Spyro the dragon In Spyro you can dash underwater witch means you can move freely underwater and faster as well Also there’s no air meter so you don’t have to worry about drowning There’s also games that take place entirely underwater like ubosu and subnadinca
In Pikmin 4 I would love to see a location that takes place in a coral reef or the deepest depths of the ocean. That could lead to some more ridiculously cool boss fights and character designs!
So a Blue Pikmin exclusive area? That would be sick, imagine you crash somehow and are drifted on a little island surrounded by water and you have to use blue pikmin to return to the main land and you build a bridge later on for convience
a game i love called abzu explores what people can do with water in videogames beautifully, the places are all so unique and i'd love to see people taking inspiration from that game
This video is pure amazingness! The colors, the animation itself, and the narration!! Everything is just so good!! You earned a sub :D *like you have earned 447k others-*
Got a game that I think is relatively worthy of note with their water levels that I actually quite enjoyed: Ori and the will of the wisps. It does still have an oxygen timer though, but the level theming and movement feels almost flawless. Great video by the way! You've raised some really good points
So I really like the idea of being able to grab and kick off of surfaces! But I feel in an action game (Think of something like Kingdom Hearts for example) we cna expand upon it. What if you could use the walls and enemies in your attacks? Like imagine being able to use an enemy, and then kick off of them to home in on anothet target. Additionally, you could kick off the walls to dive at your foes! If you are good you can chain these together and make them part of your combos. In a way, It's like Flowmotion from Dream Drop Distance. But I feel that it could work so well!
Not sure if this fits here but there's a game, GO Vacation, where you can freely roam around in the resorts. Mii's are also playable. You can swim around in the water but you can't free dive, which is kinda disappointing. There's a SCUBA activity but that's different. I would love to freedive around in the Marine Resort with a Mii buddy following me or having a holding-breath-competition. Or how about something like this but in Wuhu Island? That would be cool, too!
These are really great points, and there’s one thing I’m very curious about and wanna see. Blind water Basically like black ink or oil patches spewed into the water in certain areas causing light to be obscured and almost act as that section in breath of the wild where that forest was super duper dark and then you accidentally ram yourself into the hands of a stone talus or something
One game I absolutely love and has a lot of water levels is a ds game called The Legendary Starfy! There is no oxygen meter because you play as a starfish named starfy, and you get to swim around just as fast as you run on land. I remember having so much fun spin attacking underwater, because it gives starfy an underwater boost and drill attacks any enemy in your way. And there were underwater currents that made you swim faster, and in a future world, there were floating water bubbles that you had to swim-jump from bubble to bubble. It was a blast.
I think you should check out the swimming and treasure reef area in sky children of light. It has a lot of polished and also very simple underwater mechanics, fun to explore and its 3D. Theres bubbles that replenish your oxygen near the surface but as you dive deeper it gets darker and bigger underwater creatures lurking around in deep ruins. The game is centered around playing with friends, so you can hold eachothers hands and help eachothers as you explore, find treasures and play through the seasons quests. The game developers added this new underwater area and swimming mechanics in a recent season of the game and went all out on it.. sadly I dont really see a lot of people revisiting it. I personally really love it, swimming around and exploring this area with friends has been so much fun. Definitely one of the best underwater game experiences ive experienced.
Your section about depth reminds me of some of the underwater levels in the mobile game Super Cat Tales 2, on a visual level. There's certain levels where all you can see is a small radius around the cat you're playing as, but there's obstacles and enemies around you in the darkness.
water level concepts: instead of having oxygen you have a pressure meter where you cant go up to fast or you get a cramp and start falling deeper and the area is super polluted at the top but the deeper you go despite your sight being more and more limited you see more enemies more passive npcs and at the bottom your at the hydrothermal vents these have yeti crabs that are hostile but are blind and will go to sounds and stuff and will attack you if you get to close dealing heavy damage you also have vampire squid that when you get close they blind you with green ink making your character immobile for a short time as they run away but attack them and they'll take up their spikey cape of teeth and latch on to your head and you have to mash the A button to get the squid off and while your being attacked the vampire squid will be healed by its dps so it deals 2 damage and has a dps of 8 so yeah also for the boss there you find this volcano that is quaking with glowing star fish and kelp on it and the surrounding yeti crabs are saying they cant eat from it so you attack it and it gets up out of the ground with these coral tubes for fingers and it fires a lot of pressure out of its coral tubes also when getting above it it will erupt causing you to overheat and take damage and you don't wanna swim up to fast or that pressure meter is gunna destroy you because you will fall into it and be erupted out with half of your total hp removed so if you have 10 hp it goes to five and if you have 20 it goes to 10 and you get it and you will also take some overheat damage and the pressure corals that shoot out compressed water will launch you into stuff like rocks and crap but it can also suck you in getting you stuck on it as the underwater volcano heats you up before shooting you into a rock or a yeti crab and in phase 2 it starts running away from you still attacking by launching stuff out of its volcano that will overheat you then you reach a brine lake where you fight it and in the end it falls into the brine lake dying and you get the coral pressurizer as the a weapon it launches targets back or sucks them in sucking a target in can allow you to get 5 hits on it max before either the target breaks free or you shoot it into a rock it essentially is a better gravity gun from half life being able to grab targets and shoot them into stuff and if you shoot your target at closer range the more impact damage it does this also depends on the surface your target hits the strongest being rocks steel and spikes you can also launch ragdolls and its really fun and you can use it to launch your self by shooting it at the ground making you essentially rocket jump but you take no damage and you get sent further flying also it include the other underwater physics included in the video end of idea.
Have you played ABZU? The whole game is underwater and fixes like everything you’ve talked about. The controls are fun and you move quickly which makes it the best water controls in my opinion.
if you want a game with good water levels try "The Legendary Starfy" (half the game takes place under water), its an old game for the ds but it might be on some virtual consoles considering how they made starfy an assist trophy in smash
Gotta say, your ideas here are pretty brilliant! I am straight-up stealing them for a little game I'm working on. On the topic of "Why don't devs make better water controls and stages?," I think it's mostly just a matter of people going with the flow. We're accustomed to the standard conventions of underwater gameplay, and people don't really think to question it. That, at least, is why I never thought about it till now.
Ok but seriously, I LOVE mario 64's underwater levels. I know sometimes the camera is just a bad time but the music though is just so GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!
Water levels were my favourite part of Super Mario Galaxy, I loved just swimming around hearing the cheery beach music and how it calmed down and became muffled once you went under the surface. I loved seeing just how high I could jump down into the water. Just Vibing.
why cant we drink the water?
S A L T
Tastes weird
I mean if mario odyssey can carbonate its water than why can't we just drink it
Because it is most likely salt-water
*slurp sownds*...need i say more
I've never really had any issues with Subnautica and that entire game is underwater, which also has a very well process of depth as mentioned.
Yes because the point of the game is underwater
@@janpirs2744 that doesnt change the fact that madz said videogames and water dont mix, regardless if its just 1 level or the entire game
Not sure if that counts as a platformer as well, which harbor the main issues around that...
Subnotica is scary tho
@@Cashewz698 9:22
the wall kick/grab idea is GENIUS! it's actually my favorite part about real world swimming it's crazy that no game (as far as I know) has incorporated it. it seems like such an obvious mechanic.
has anyone else played the fancy pants game?? it literally has this mechanic and its been here for so long lol
Always remember…
If you think the water level you’re playing is bad, don’t forget Kingdom Hearts 2’s “Atlantica” still exists.
Or water temple in ocarina of time
Atlantica is fine. It's actually a good level. What's with gamers and hating on water levels while y'all continue to play them?
@@s-wo8781 Yeah, KH1 Atlantica is fun. KH2, not so much.
Kh2 atlantica. Kh1 Atlantica is fine.
KH1 Atlantica is fine, but it's pretty limiting and slow compared to the other worlds.
KH3 Carribean is pretty great, with good exploration and swimming controls.
KH2 Atlantica is an abomination.
A good exception is Majora's Mask Zora form. The swimming in that game has such good controls. Quick, responsive, and with a magic barrier attack that keeps you moving.
Also snake pass, an unusual 3d platformer where the water is even more fun than the land parts
Ikr???
right?? i was surprised he didn't mention it
If splatoon had a water level I’d imagine it’d more of be like an aquarium kinda thing or giving you a suit that seals water and if could be a gimmick like cracks in the glass or you have to keep the suit sealed with air.
cool
Idea: a giant pool filled with ink. Better to be comepletely blind in a "water" level then just explode lol /j
Do you mean that you have suit to protect the Inkling from water?
@SoccChester
Sometimes, it's not clear what they meant at first, but rereading the comment helps...
I was thinking of a potion they could drink so that water wouldn’t sink to far into their skin, with the effects only lasting after clearing the stage. But there would still be an air meter.
All the drawn characters in this video look so nice… I’m not into video games, but I ended up watching the whole video just for the art
that’s so kind of you to think that! Glad the topic isn’t alienating, I really try to make sure anyone can enjoy my content regardless of topic
The same, bro
I love how Madz can do a video pretty much on any gaming related topic and makes it so interesting aha ALSO THE VISUALS ARE AMAZING AHH!
It's the mark of great personality and presentation for sure
Thank you so much Jess!!
@@GetMadz hi -
It's a masterpiece it's a masterpiece
@@GetMadz dude your visuals are amazing man you earned it
I think tropical freeze have some of my favorite water levels, period. One of them doesn’t even take place underwater- it takes place in a JUICE FACTORY. You’re swimming around in pink juice to avoid sharks and giant juicers. It’s so good.
Most of the time in video games, I am mentally propelled AWAY from water like a magnet. The only time this hasn't happened for me that I noticed is in Majora's Mask. Once you get the Zora Mask, swimming becomes SO much more fun because it is faster and you have more control.
Perhaps if games were to add an item or ability early on that made swimming faster and more fun, maybe the water levels will become more bearable.
Or maybe they could let you do that by default...
@@Mike14264 depends on the kind of game. Getting the Zora's mask is special because it lets you do that. If it were like that from the start, where would the excitement be? Also, the gravity suit in Metroid would just be an armor upgrade if moving in water wasn't so horrendous without it
@@Clepto_and_Co yeah, I was still in the mindset about platformers when I wrote that... my bad. But yeah, maybe these items could be introduced before most water-heavy segments, and at least have default swimming not be a total pain...
Yup
I think Ori’s Luma Pools are amazing. The controls are pretty good, the switch between underwater and land is a key element and you can absolutely shoot out of the water. Also the environment is not the generic beach theme it’s a magical shell place with pink trees and it looks really good too
I 100% agree. It breaks the usual water level trope of slow, boring gameplay, and instead is a gorgeous area filled with interesting elements. It also has slower gameplay with a breath meter at the beginning, but it uses them effectively as part of the design, without it being shoehorned in and monotonous.
If there’s any game that does ocean levels well it’s Rayman Origins/Legends.
They have it all:
-No oxygen limit
-Underwater Schmovement
-diverse environments
It’s good trust me
Ah yes rayman legends, one of my fav levels are those underwater spy levels. And ori 2 has really really nice water movement too (once you have the upgrades)
Some of my favorite levels from my favorite game
Honestly id have been mad if he didnt mention rayman underwater levels because those go so hard
GLOO GLOO GLOO GLOOGLOOGLOO
@@yohhh6715 Best music level from the game
As an aspiring game designer, One of my life goals would be to revolutionize water leves for the reasons you described in the video
And yes we should talk about the super chad Minecraft 1.13 water movement more often
6:02 This might sound weird, but Roblox in my opinion has a great water system. In the game Quill Lake, you dive underwater and collect artifacts. You have to first unlock freediving training, then a scuba suit, then specialty scuba suits designed for extreme heat, extreme cold, eradiated water, and even a disguise to enter a ghost pirate area. Basically, the deeper you go, the more stuff you have to do to successfully enter that area. It also has a blur effect is you're in an area that is dangerous to your current diving setup.
The animation is sooooo good! a big improvement on the art style too!
ye thats what i was noticing loved the animation
Yeah!! But way does look like a FNF character. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
face bump and chin
I love water levels in Kirby games, they usually have a specific *flow* to them that makes them fun while not having them overstay their welcome ☺️
Except for that one water level in Triple Deluxe’s world Endless Explosions, because it’s a hybrid water/lava level. Most of the others are fine and the Forgotten Land ones are *really good* for water levels.
@@GoroAkechi_Realwait are there even any underwater levels in kafl I thought it was only beach episodes
Your production quality and value over the years man, I’m shedding a tiny tear. S’beautiful
And I’m right there with you. Beautiful colorful ocean life, FLUID controls, it’s untapped and ripe for good gameplay!
I’m here before this comment is rlly popular I agree so much!
Thank you so much for the support Brookes!! It truly means a lot coming from you
DUDE WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE
I didn’t expect you to be here!
OGs remember the X's in the eyes
There is so much work put into these videos. The art and animation in this one especially is stellar and it's so visually engaging. You did not need to go this hard but I want to be vocal about how impressive it is!
You know, I'm actually on a game dev career path, so, once I'm able to get started, I'll take your suggestions and ideas into consideration!
I agree, the ocean, and underwater environments in general, have SO MUCH POTENTIAL.. unfortunately gets wasted.
just play tropical freeze lol
I’m actually interested in that path. Is it cool if I can ask you a few questions?
@@unuseduser575 sure!
There's also a game themed around water: ABZÛ
It's a short indie game with very beautiful environments (and music--)
You can grab onto large fish and swim along with it. You can even jump out from water!! Feels amazing
I'm actually surprised I don't see it mentioned that much
Well, I think the answer to all these things you asked for is the horrifying game I bought and never got out of the first area. Subnautica. It’s really easy to swim, there is the depth you mentioned, and it’s incredibly diverse. Problem is it’s so scary with the leviathans.
It took me about an hour to have the balls to approach the aurora so yeah checks out
@@Aegisdex I never even played in survival and couldn’t go anywhere near there.
I played the game
A fish screamed and exploded
I uninstalled the game
I am too scared of water in games in general even in mario galaxy
It doesn't feel slow
It feels scary
@@miigi-p4939 that sounds like the general experience of someone who played subnautica
Subnautica is AMAZING, YES!
0:01 *_THE GAMING_*
You can literally tell how the developers themselves dont want you to spend much time in the water, why would they otherwise limit your oxygen so you have to leave the water every few moments?
Now that I think about it, that is really a weird design, them giving us a very limited time to spend in this environment they designed for us... they must hate water levels as much as everyone else
It's easy to SAY that...
Now let see all the playtester in the WORLD not understanding why the water in your game control like outer space without oxygen in your game because that's more fun... You will see pain.... mentioning
But still... Sure we can still find it easily in Mario because he is a cartoon character ( In Mario Odyssey for exemple they resolved the problem by having you possess fish which is.. How you swim most of the time actually )... But for Monster Hunter ? Much much harder because realism come back.
A very important rule to Game Design is to have something that feel "natural" in order to not explain anything to the player which is most likely why this design choice isn't as weird as the youtuber say it is.
With the having to breath thing, it'd be cool in a 3D zelda game to get a snorkel or some item/clothing set that allows you to go breathe under water
Zora Tunic OoT (an item in a 3D Zelda game that allows you to breathe underwater)
when i played mario oddessy i turned off assistant mode when I got to the lake kingdom bcus it (assisted mode) lets you breathe underwater. I was SO confused trying to find the boss fight w/o arrows lol
@TommyGaming 🅥 you aren't clever ik this is a rickroll
I always just looked at spots that look like a boss arena. Or just looked for the boss airship.
@@rocktoo7603 my logic exactly. "What place would be a good arena..... that would be a good one!
*starts boss fight*
"Knew it"
Wait people use assist mode?
@@pixelatedink955 I do cause it’s easier underwater and it gives you more health
I’ve never watched one of your videos before but this was amazing, the visuals and ideas were all perfect. Although it doesn’t mean much from one random person, you’ve earned a like and subscribe without a doubt 👍
thank u so much! trust me that means a lot!!
It's awesome when you change your artstyle ever so slightly every video but still a very beautifully animated video
The mouth looks a little weird though…
3:53 finally the sprite sea
I think the best example is the zora mask from majoras mask. No breathing and jet ski controls makes it super fun if only the great bay had went deeper underwater and had more enclosed areas and swimming challenges.
And if they didn't make it worse on the 3DS remaster! The original controls were excellent and much more fun to play with.
@@ArtistLunatalia I only played the 3ds version and even I think it was one of the best examples if the original was even better than that's pretty awesome.
The Spyro trilogy had my favorite water levels. Sometimes I'd revisit them just to...hang around. There was no oxygen mechanic so there was no rush. It was just pretty.
Idk whats different in this video BUT I LOVED IT, THE VISUALS AND PACING WERE SO PERFECT OMG
Glad to see you back Madz!
thank you so much this comment is bringing tears to my eyes!
@@GetMadz hey! Umm, I’ve been making a lot of these comments but, have you heard of Subnautica? It’s got good swimming mechanics, there is still oxygen requirements (that you can upgrade), the depth and darkness thing, diverse biomes, pollution, terrifying sea creatures, etc.
@@milesperhour2286 That was actually the third game he showed during the positive settings section, when he said “those are the only two.” As for why he glossed over it, I think your last point makes it pretty clear.
I’m actually more surprised he didn’t mention Abzu. I haven’t played it myself, but from what I’ve seen and heard, it’s a 3D game you spend almost entirely underwater, but the controls are nice, and the environments are absolutely beautiful.
@@michaelnelson1127 I didn’t see subnautica… I’ll have to rewatch it, but your the only one that has said he mentioned it.
@@michaelnelson1127 he did show it. But I had to really focus on the gameplay because he says something that sounds like a game that I couldn’t recognize in that section.
Pretty clever use of the game boy start up sound ngl 1:41
If there's no water in a video game, then no man can fall into the river in Lego City. This would be a massive problem.
havent thought about that meme in years
@@MrDuckersonwell now you have
@@MrDuckerson you better start building that rescue helicopter
Wow what a great video!! It was an interesting essay with great humor, great tunes, and FANTASTIC consistent visuals!! You and your team can consider yourselves a new source of inspiration for me and I'm sure many others! Keep up the juicy content! Easy sub :)
If there’s one game I think has good underwater levels, I’d have to say Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Sure, yeah, slippery controls, but that’s pretty much a given in underwater levels. But there are enough movement options to keep it interesting and fast paced more so than other games. And I noticed the art style improvement! It looks great!
the fast movement and especially the variety of scenery/gameplay elements makes the underwater levels in tropical freeze some of the best. amiss abyss has gotta be my favourite underwater level I've played in a game. and they actually managed to make an underwater boss fight decently fun.
rayman origins did it first
@@unfunnyguy1530 Rayman legends had pretty good water levels too
Majora's Mask had really fun swimming in the Zora form.
4:41 Wowza!
1:03 if there was an underwater level nobody would get to play as they would just keep drowning or exploding whatever
Subnautica has got me be my favorite water based video game of all time it's extremely fun and if you haven't played it you should definitely give it a try.
For any new players make sure to head towards the spaceship early in the game
He shows a clip @ 9:41 but then just doesn’t talk about it like????
Kirby epic yarn has exactly what you're talking about when it comes to pressure. More specifically with the dolphin power up and I've got to say it's real fun to mess around with :)! It also proves it can be done
Kingdom Hearts 1’s Atlantica is legitimately one of the most painful gaming experiences in the industry, from the stupid dolphin mechanics to the abysmal Ursula final boss, it’s just a sad mess all around.
And then KH2 went "Y'hear about rhythm games?"
And also "You arbitrarily can't progress any further here in Jolly Roger Bay, come back later when you have The Thing that we decided you need"
And the most laughable part is all you get for it is a Keyblade that boosts ice damage [so, y'know, Blizzard] and is as such only really useful for Data Axel [if you're playing Final Mix] and whatever other things have an ice weakness
Hydrocity zone from sonic 3 is also really hard
@@lylelylecrocodile2538 it's an awesome water level and easy.
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 for me it was hard because of the fish that didn't let you jump
And then there is Lego, which basically just said "Walk with Powerup, swim without it" and then they basically still say the same thing except for Pirates of the Carribean, where they added the breathing mechanic to limit your swimming.
Also, yeah, Minecraft is cool, I loved their swimming mechanics except when I am hungry and I don't have food because I want to set up a farm.
And finally, your art really did improve since I first seen you in 2017 and last saw you back in 2020! Really neat to see you up here.
5:17 I haven't heard that name in a while. All jokes aside though, Gloo Gloo is one of if not the best water level in terms of controls and stuff like that
I'm SO glad Kirby and the Forgotten Land got water levels right!
While I love Kirby and the forgotten land, those are not water levels those are beach levels. Water levels mostly refer to going underwater
@@Door227 I guess that's true!
I like how Shovel Knight did water. Your speed stays the same but your jump is enhanced and your descent is slightly slower. More control, less restrictions, adds on to the overall gameplay.
Ah, yes. The Mega Man approach
I'm honestly surprised that Spyro 2 and 3 (Original controls specifically) wasn't mentioned here! I always used to adore their water levels, it was so smooth and fun to charge through the water. Maybe try those levels out and see if it compares?
I've actually never played a Spyro game! the closest I've gotten is Crash Purple LOL
Do they still hold up in the reignited trilogy?
@@GetMadz They're a tad bit more slippery in the Reignited Trilogy, as you don't come to a complete stop unlike in the original games if you stop moving/charging, and your turns, at least to me, feel wider- but they're still extremely passable and nice compared to most 3d games and how they handle swimming! In my opinion!
Also, no holding your breath underwater mechanics! The closest they ever get to that is one section in Spyro 3 in a late-game world, and that's because you have an invincibility power up and you're swimming in ACID! It's cool stuff!
I love how in Mario kart the underwater makes you more floaty and faster in currents. Plus some of the best tracks in the series are underwater. Koopa Cape, piranha plant slide, Wario Shipyard, Dolphin shoals etc
koopa cape in mario kart wii actually has normal driving physics, as you are surrounded by a glass tunnel. mario kart 7's version is a different story, that was underwater.
this is amazing. I've wanted someone to make a video like this for SUCH a long time!
Actually a great video. perfect Idea and execution. Your content is the prefect blend of comedy and actual talk about game design. You and GMTK are some of my fav youtubers :)
6:27 apology not accepted
Ok I'm going to make a niche reference:
*Jumpstart*
They had an underwater area and it was so fun; no breathing, big open world, fun quests, you could walk on the floor or swim, it was so good
Okay this depth idea is really cool. Might use this mechanic in one of my game projects, it would fit in nicely
I didn't know madz was obsessed to just some hydrogen and oxygen mixed together.
really liked this video, as well as the ideas you brought to fix these issues with water levels! I hope you'll grow even more!!
Can we address how In 3D Mario games (With 3D World as an exception) Mario has an air meter, but in the 2D Games, he can swim underwater fine without an air limit. 🤔
HMMMM...
He lost his old lungs
I think it's because in 3D World and the 2D games it's linear and focused on getting to the end of the level and not collecting things so having an air meter there would be even more pointless and make the game just worse
You should do more videos like this. It’s fun to hear creative solutions and it gets viewers thinking.
I know a 3D game that dose water levels really well Spyro the dragon
In Spyro you can dash underwater witch means you can move freely underwater and faster as well
Also there’s no air meter so you don’t have to worry about drowning
There’s also games that take place entirely underwater like ubosu and subnadinca
Agreed, Spyro did an excellent job with its water levels.
Yo, just found your channel. Love the video, lots of fun. Absolutely in love with your character art. It's so fun and expressive.
In Pikmin 4 I would love to see a location that takes place in a coral reef or the deepest depths of the ocean. That could lead to some more ridiculously cool boss fights and character designs!
omg that's such a good idea!!
So a Blue Pikmin exclusive area? That would be sick, imagine you crash somehow and are drifted on a little island surrounded by water and you have to use blue pikmin to return to the main land and you build a bridge later on for convience
😲 - That would be a very cool idea!
a game i love called abzu explores what people can do with water in videogames beautifully, the places are all so unique and i'd love to see people taking inspiration from that game
3:14
Fun fact, now we've acttually explored 20%
I love the ocean, I love the beach, I hate that summer is limited to a few months in a year…in more places.
Getmadz: uploads a video
Everyone: the return of the king.
He has risen
Man, I wish I knew what Madz was talking about when he mentions how fun swimming is. I can't swim.
For me, I just don’t like the sudden slowness of water levels.
This video is pure amazingness! The colors, the animation itself, and the narration!! Everything is just so good!! You earned a sub :D
*like you have earned 447k others-*
Madz I’m so happy that you’ve switched game related videos, you’re content has really elevated beyond whats it used to be since. Say awesome man
Got a game that I think is relatively worthy of note with their water levels that I actually quite enjoyed: Ori and the will of the wisps. It does still have an oxygen timer though, but the level theming and movement feels almost flawless.
Great video by the way! You've raised some really good points
Nintendo water looks so quenchable it would taste so good
So I really like the idea of being able to grab and kick off of surfaces! But I feel in an action game (Think of something like Kingdom Hearts for example) we cna expand upon it. What if you could use the walls and enemies in your attacks? Like imagine being able to use an enemy, and then kick off of them to home in on anothet target. Additionally, you could kick off the walls to dive at your foes! If you are good you can chain these together and make them part of your combos. In a way, It's like Flowmotion from Dream Drop Distance. But I feel that it could work so well!
Dude water levels will always be my favorite type of level
Everything about them is just so fresh
but I do agree there were missed oppurtunities
Not sure if this fits here but there's a game, GO Vacation, where you can freely roam around in the resorts. Mii's are also playable. You can swim around in the water but you can't free dive, which is kinda disappointing. There's a SCUBA activity but that's different. I would love to freedive around in the Marine Resort with a Mii buddy following me or having a holding-breath-competition. Or how about something like this but in Wuhu Island? That would be cool, too!
i love this new animation style and the expressions! It goves you a lot more personality :)
Oh ma god I love this art style
These are really great points, and there’s one thing I’m very curious about and wanna see.
Blind water
Basically like black ink or oil patches spewed into the water in certain areas causing light to be obscured and almost act as that section in breath of the wild where that forest was super duper dark and then you accidentally ram yourself into the hands of a stone talus or something
One game I absolutely love and has a lot of water levels is a ds game called The Legendary Starfy! There is no oxygen meter because you play as a starfish named starfy, and you get to swim around just as fast as you run on land. I remember having so much fun spin attacking underwater, because it gives starfy an underwater boost and drill attacks any enemy in your way. And there were underwater currents that made you swim faster, and in a future world, there were floating water bubbles that you had to swim-jump from bubble to bubble. It was a blast.
2:44 the sonic rush adventure soundtrack 🔥🔥
you know it
I think you should check out the swimming and treasure reef area in sky children of light. It has a lot of polished and also very simple underwater mechanics, fun to explore and its 3D. Theres bubbles that replenish your oxygen near the surface but as you dive deeper it gets darker and bigger underwater creatures lurking around in deep ruins. The game is centered around playing with friends, so you can hold eachothers hands and help eachothers as you explore, find treasures and play through the seasons quests. The game developers added this new underwater area and swimming mechanics in a recent season of the game and went all out on it.. sadly I dont really see a lot of people revisiting it. I personally really love it, swimming around and exploring this area with friends has been so much fun. Definitely one of the best underwater game experiences ive experienced.
When I first saw this, I was like “Mass is totally gonna talk about subnautica”
Nope
That's exactly how I felt, I was so sad when Subnautica was absent.
Your section about depth reminds me of some of the underwater levels in the mobile game Super Cat Tales 2, on a visual level. There's certain levels where all you can see is a small radius around the cat you're playing as, but there's obstacles and enemies around you in the darkness.
water level concepts: instead of having oxygen you have a pressure meter where you cant go up to fast or you get a cramp and start falling deeper and the area is super polluted at the top but the deeper you go despite your sight being more and more limited you see more enemies more passive npcs and at the bottom your at the hydrothermal vents these have yeti crabs that are hostile but are blind and will go to sounds and stuff and will attack you if you get to close dealing heavy damage you also have vampire squid that when you get close they blind you with green ink making your character immobile for a short time as they run away but attack them and they'll take up their spikey cape of teeth and latch on to your head and you have to mash the A button to get the squid off and while your being attacked the vampire squid will be healed by its dps so it deals 2 damage and has a dps of 8 so yeah also for the boss there you find this volcano that is quaking with glowing star fish and kelp on it and the surrounding yeti crabs are saying they cant eat from it so you attack it and it gets up out of the ground with these coral tubes for fingers and it fires a lot of pressure out of its coral tubes also when getting above it it will erupt causing you to overheat and take damage and you don't wanna swim up to fast or that pressure meter is gunna destroy you because you will fall into it and be erupted out with half of your total hp removed so if you have 10 hp it goes to five and if you have 20 it goes to 10 and you get it and you will also take some overheat damage and the pressure corals that shoot out compressed water will launch you into stuff like rocks and crap but it can also suck you in getting you stuck on it as the underwater volcano heats you up before shooting you into a rock or a yeti crab and in phase 2 it starts running away from you still attacking by launching stuff out of its volcano that will overheat you then you reach a brine lake where you fight it and in the end it falls into the brine lake dying and you get the coral pressurizer as the a weapon it launches targets back or sucks them in sucking a target in can allow you to get 5 hits on it max before either the target breaks free or you shoot it into a rock it essentially is a better gravity gun from half life being able to grab targets and shoot them into stuff and if you shoot your target at closer range the more impact damage it does this also depends on the surface your target hits the strongest being rocks steel and spikes you can also launch ragdolls and its really fun and you can use it to launch your self by shooting it at the ground making you essentially rocket jump but you take no damage and you get sent further flying also it include the other underwater physics included in the video end of idea.
this is the most absurd run-on sentence i have ever read. please add some capitalization. a comma, perhaps?
@@nethowarrior3294 no
Grammarly can help you knock down wordy and hard to read sentences into well formatted easy to read sentences.
i think this is like my favorite animated character / gameplay type channel now
Madz art styles are like pimples.... *They always pop up and are always changing.*
Yea, dope artstyle
Your illustrations and animations are great!!
Have you played ABZU? The whole game is underwater and fixes like everything you’ve talked about. The controls are fun and you move quickly which makes it the best water controls in my opinion.
Yeah, I thought he'd say it had the best controls, but Minecraft is funnier
if you want a game with good water levels try "The Legendary Starfy" (half the game takes place under water), its an old game for the ds but it might be on some virtual consoles considering how they made starfy an assist trophy in smash
Wanted to mention that Starfy on DS is a great underwater game that I highly recommend to underwater enthusiasts. 👍
aesthetic on fleek! keep it up madzzzzzzzzz
GetMadz finally uploaded again I missed you
Fr
agreed
yes
Gotta say, your ideas here are pretty brilliant! I am straight-up stealing them for a little game I'm working on.
On the topic of "Why don't devs make better water controls and stages?," I think it's mostly just a matter of people going with the flow. We're accustomed to the standard conventions of underwater gameplay, and people don't really think to question it. That, at least, is why I never thought about it till now.
Ok but seriously, I LOVE mario 64's underwater levels. I know sometimes the camera is just a bad time but the music though is just so GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!
honestly the legend of starfy made me love water levels. it controls really well and its GORGEOUS
Subnautica is a water game done right. The only problems are the pop in (which is even worse on switch) and the leviathans that want to kill you.
Dude the pop in on xbox1 and ps4 was fine it is fixed a bit in the ps5 version and the switch is runing on a rock with potato on a led screen
Subnatica and subnatica below zero does this pretty well 6:20. You also have the option to choose of you want oxygen
Now I want to make a game myself to show the world how great waterlevels can be xD
Do people just forget about subnautica ?
@@milesperhour2286 we want a Mario game like Subnautica, we know it exists. But it isn't as recognizable like Mario
5:29
Subnautica: Am I a joke to you?
If you want a amazing (and terrifying) underwater game, play Subnautica.
Now with subnautica below zero
Water levels were my favourite part of Super Mario Galaxy, I loved just swimming around hearing the cheery beach music and how it calmed down and became muffled once you went under the surface. I loved seeing just how high I could jump down into the water. Just Vibing.
Top 10 british moments
Number 1: 0:44
i swear, nintendo or, really any game company should hire you. your ideas are so good and it makes me want to learn how to mod them into games
This video looks absolutely beautiful. Just par for the course when comes to your videos Madz.
deez