Is ECN2 better than C41? Developing 800T in Cinestill ECN2 Kit (CS2)

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 141

  • @CineStillFilm
    @CineStillFilm 3 года назад +11

    👏🏻... 👏🏻... 👏🏻... More choices = More creativity! From camera, to lens, to film, to processing, to scanning, to post-processing, to printing, etc.; that’s what makes film the most creative medium for photography. Explore and find the workflow that delivers your look! Stay safe and shoot more film.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      exactly! it's all about creativity and making choices. plus, experimenting is fun 😊

  • @JamieMPhoto
    @JamieMPhoto 3 года назад +11

    It was harder for me to tell the colors on the comparison, but I had it opposite. Nice!! I did notice how the lamps had much more detail in the highlights on the ECN2s, but I could see that being a product of the flatter look. I'm testing this kit out this week, finally!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      yea the differences can be subtle! sometimes its more obvious than others. good luck with the kit!

  • @arturors30
    @arturors30 3 года назад +10

    It’s a personal preference, I love the right print.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea def personal preference! no right answer 😊

  • @alexiscuarezma
    @alexiscuarezma 3 года назад +5

    Thanks so much for doing this!! I just got the Cine Still ECN2 kit. Happy to see these results. I like the less contrast in the neg... as it will give more options in the DI.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      nice! yea the less contrast can be useful. gives you more of a "clean slate"

  • @Resgerr
    @Resgerr 3 года назад +8

    I enjoyed this Ribsy both prints had their merits and it will come down to what your looking for. This test though is a good idea to have at the back if your mind when you use motion film. Thanks👏🏻

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +2

      thanks for watching! yea, its good to know what happens with each combination. just another tool

    • @Resgerr
      @Resgerr 3 года назад

      @@ribsy it is

  • @pushingfilm
    @pushingfilm 3 года назад +5

    Good one Ribs! Nice to see this comparison on such a technical level. Hope you're having a great start to the year 😁👍

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      thanks mate! yea thats as technical as i get haha. took some effort

  • @thomaschipman
    @thomaschipman 3 года назад +3

    the c41 examples feel like they've had their shadows pushed 2/3 of a stop or so. i much prefer the way ec2 handles that gradation from highlight to shadow. i imagine it wouldn't take much to digitally modify the c41 to have a similar feel to the ec2, but in the darkroom it seems like it would take significantly more effort. definitely prefer the ec2 look when printed. nice work and thanks for taking the time to put this comparison together. cheers

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      sure thing - thanks for watching! yea, once digital it wouldn't take much work to manipulate. but its nice too see / understand whats going on

  • @clifflee5802
    @clifflee5802 3 года назад +4

    I'm glad the algorithm brought me here, nice video dude. Very straightforward and just solved a question of mine thx

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for watching! glad the content was useful 😊

  • @mwlphelps
    @mwlphelps 3 года назад +3

    Very cool! I prefer the ecn2 versions of both the scans and prints, but whatever. I'd love to see the same test with 50D in bright sun, but we'll both have to wait a few months (I'm in Massachusetts). :)

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea! i will be trying the 50D experiment soon. curious to see how that reacts to this test

  • @tsegulin
    @tsegulin 2 года назад

    When we used to process ECN2 back in the 70s we generally aimed for 0.55 to 0.60 gamma on 5247 ECN.
    The Eastmancolor negative looked quite different to the C-41 negatives like Ektacolor - ECN had a more red-yellow base masking and C-41 had a more red-blue one. I never personally measured it but I understood C-41 aimed for a slightly higher gamma like 0.65 which would make the resulting positive image a little more contrasty than ECN. What you are doing of course is processing the same ECN film through two different baths, which is quite different.
    The two had different operational requirements. C-41 was intended to make paper prints while ECN2 and ECP2 were designed to increase the total print though contrast when projected in the cinema to around 1.75 gamma to compensate for contrast losses due to light scattering in the projector, bounce back off of the walls etc. (This meant that a colour negative of around 0.60 gamma was printed onto an ECP2 projection colour positive of 3.0 to 3.5 gamma).
    I was wondering how you knew where to cut the same roll of film for different processing.
    When printing RGB separations on an optical printer I would shoot the red sep, then run on 100 frames, open the side of the camera (fogging the film but no important image was there) and I had a little punch that would put an edge notch on the film. Then I would close the camera, run on 100 frames and shoot the green sep and so on. Once I hit the darkroom I could rewind the roll to the head then rewind forward from there through my fingers until the first notch passed through. Then I would cut it there and can it as the red sep (which I processed differently to the green and blue seps). This was a major part of film bluescreen shots.
    Oddly the very first 35mm still camera I bought while in high school allowed me to do something similar. It was an Exakta Varex IIa and you could run film out of one cassette and into another. In mid roll you could wind on a few frames then use an internal blade to cut the film and wind the rest of it into the take up cassette. You would lose a few frames of the remainder as you attached it to a take-up spool or another cassette. It had lovely Zeiss lenses and was also left-handed like me - another plus!
    Interesting video. So nice to think people still shoot on film. Thanks!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад +1

      Very interesting info. For this I just cut the rolls in the dark! When shooting I shot a bunch of blanks in the middle to give myself empty space and make it easier to approximate the middle in the dark

  • @benjhaisch
    @benjhaisch 3 года назад +1

    I dig it. Would love to see 500T in ECN2 and Cinestill in C41 side by side.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      thanks! i did a video like this before. the differences are actually significantly more apparent when you do that -- ruclips.net/video/NQwJ-K2slBk/видео.html

  • @m00dawg
    @m00dawg 3 года назад +1

    I've never tried it but you can also adjust contrast by using additives in the developer. I believe a small amount of hydrogen peroxide can give you a contrast boost, for instance. Definitely not as convenient as with using BW filters though! I would like to try that out sometime when I'm setup to do RA4 more regularly.
    Back to ECN2 vs C41, that was a great comparison! Nice to see it side by side and, in fact, I had my guess backwards! Really nice to see that there's now multiple choices with ECN2 development! I rather like ECN2 at least if I know I'm not going to RA4 print the results since, as you mentioned, it just seems I can do a ton more to the image in Lightroom than with a C41 negative, but it still has much of the film look that I like.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      yea good point! ive read about this here and there and its intriguing. i may have to play
      mad scientist' soon haha

  • @NPJensen
    @NPJensen 3 года назад +1

    Very interesting.
    I would be pleased with both negatives for their different properties.
    As far as the prints go however, I do prefer the ECN2 print - that's the one I'd hang on my wall, if it were me.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea same! each looks good to me. neither is bad

  • @randallstewart175
    @randallstewart175 3 года назад +2

    Before you got into it, I expected a much smaller difference in color and density between the two developers. Now if you want to see a huge difference, compare Vision 3/500(ECN-2) v. CS 800T(C-41), in their respective developers. Nice job done here.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea the differences are def more dramatic if you do as you say. ive done that before and the contrast/exposure changes are a lot more obvious

  • @TrentGamingCo
    @TrentGamingCo 3 года назад +7

    such an expensive film to test so ty for this buddy

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +2

      haha yea, i did end up wasting a bit of film. for science! lol

    • @NoviSavvy
      @NoviSavvy 3 года назад

      Kodak Vision 3 is $4.5 per fresh roll of 36

    • @lukemntgmry
      @lukemntgmry 3 года назад

      @@NoviSavvy but he used cinestill 800t

  • @FotoPirata
    @FotoPirata 3 года назад +1

    (English version below in case you don't understand XD)
    Mi broooo, sigo tu canal hace unos meses pero recién veo la camiseta del Cristal ¿Eres de Perú? 🇵🇪
    Bro, I've been following your YT channel for a couple of months now and just saw the football jersey, are you from Peru? 🇵🇪

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      hola! no, no soy peruano. soy dominicano pero visite Peru hace dos años. gracias por seguir mi contenido 😊 hice un podcast en español, chequealo: www.buzzsprout.com/1567152/7078192-sigan-disparando-film-santiago-fernadez

    • @FotoPirata
      @FotoPirata 3 года назад

      @@ribsy Dale bro, ahora lo veo. Si algún día vuelves a Perú y quieres hacer un colab me avisas. Saludos! ✌️

  • @claudiamata1888
    @claudiamata1888 3 года назад +1

    Thank you so much for this video! I'm desperately looking for the Cinestill C-41 kit but it's sold out everywhere, and I've seen the ECN-2 in stock and wasn't sure if I would get good results developing C-41 process rolls with that one

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      its def worth a try. but its good to know the difference!

  • @GnartotheBone
    @GnartotheBone 3 года назад

    This is the review we all needed but didn't deserve. Thank you!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      Haha glad it was useful

  • @ConstantThrowing
    @ConstantThrowing 3 года назад

    It's like using a flat colour profile like they do in video nowadays with digital right?

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      yea basically. the negatives are def much flatter, they scan nicely though

  • @ConstantThrowing
    @ConstantThrowing 3 года назад

    Dude, I'm learning so much from your channel. Really appreciate it

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      awesome. glad the content is useful!

  • @peloszczak
    @peloszczak 3 года назад

    I thought I was the only one on planet Earth trying to RA4 print ECN2 negatives :D cheers dude, thanks for your video. Your results are pretty much the same as mine. I love the 5219/C41/RA4 combo but ECN2 is way better for me, when I plan to scan my negatives. And I get much finer grain that way.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      good to hear the experiences were similar!

  • @bigdogdougcambridge1008
    @bigdogdougcambridge1008 3 года назад +1

    Great video... and channel I just subscribed. Any plans to look at 50D? I would like to shoot Vision 3 but keep the remjet and use ECN processing as I like more natural colors.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for watching! yea, def gonna do 50D real soon!

  • @johnjon1823
    @johnjon1823 3 года назад +1

    Really nice idea for a video. I especially like the fact that you are printing color with an enlarger; I never could afford a color enlarger head years ago, in fact paper and chemicals for B&W was a stretch. However as a suggestion I think it would be better to have more video time spent showing the close-ups of the prints to see better the colors and details that were rendered.
    You need to sell something like a shirt or hoodie or whatever with a motto at a store. Fro uses "I shoot Raw" Tony and Chelsea don't seem to have a motto, but if they did it would be: "telephoto makes Chelsea's nose look almost normal, but not underwater" or something like that I think, since you use film you need a motto that addresses that, "I hate dust" would be one that brings back some memories for me. It would be nice to have links to scanned copies of the prints, and or negatives to see. I think you did a nice job on it and covered some unique things. Use the links to sell something, why not? God bless!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for watching! ill consider that next time 😊

  • @chrisstark8996
    @chrisstark8996 3 года назад +1

    Hmmm I'll have to give the ECN2 a try. I have been bulk loading Fuji Eterna 250T and I haven't been super happy with the results when developed in C41.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea its def worth trying. the "benefits" may seem minimal at times but there is a difference

  • @MeumGaudiumRivegauche
    @MeumGaudiumRivegauche 3 года назад +1

    I would love to see the same test with the 800T shot at 400 ASA during day time. I know the look with C41 which I do love but really wonder what would be the rendering of that with the ECN2.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      yea good call! i have exposed 500t at 500, and you get really great results

  • @mcb187
    @mcb187 3 года назад

    Thanks for this video! There isn’t Amy C-41 bulk film out there right now, but I have heard that movie film can be developed in C-41 (at home, because remjet), and this video really helped me visualize the difference in the looks. I have heard that C-41 makes the film more forgiving, so I will be using that, but maybe I’ll take a shot at ECN-2 one day.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea! you can bulk buy 500t and develop in c41 if you please. it isn't a bad idea but you will def have to deal with the remjet

  • @redone2612
    @redone2612 3 года назад +1

    Great video thanks for sharing, personally the c41 better for me but as you say personal taste.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      thanks for watching. yea there is no clear winner here! the c41 version is convenient

    • @redone2612
      @redone2612 3 года назад

      @@ribsy yes I think that's the way I'd go with c41 lovely results.

  • @dnyc_
    @dnyc_ 3 года назад +1

    The halation of the highlights and the grain overall seems greater/larger in the c41 developed negs.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea i think so. seems like it punches everything up just a hint

  • @李超-t6w
    @李超-t6w 3 года назад +2

    the motion film developed with ecn2 printed in ra4, how does the color look like? any issue or problem with the color balance against normal c41 film? thanks. im worrying about motion film is hard to print in ra4 for the right color

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      hi, printing with an ecn2 negative is no different. the process is the exact same, however, the final look will appear less contrasty. also, the printing times are much shorter because of the lighter negative

    • @peloszczak
      @peloszczak 3 года назад

      The ECN2 developed negative has much less contrast, so depending on the scene you're shooting the RA4 print may look flat.

  • @guillermoperezsantos
    @guillermoperezsantos 3 года назад +1

    WOW the ecn2 print has a lot more detail!!!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      it appears as so. def a very different portrait

  • @sabrinaaziz
    @sabrinaaziz 2 года назад

    Thank you for your simple explanation. 👍🏻

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      Glad it was simple 😃

  • @connieandstewart
    @connieandstewart 3 года назад

    alll you did was make it harder for me to decide what I want to develop my 800t in hahaha! Thanks for sharing your experience!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      Haha sorry!

  • @colonijanb.6369
    @colonijanb.6369 3 года назад

    thanks a lot man was looking for this comparison

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks! glad it was useful for you 😊

  • @RajReviewsDualSportPhotoGadget
    @RajReviewsDualSportPhotoGadget 2 года назад

    Very well put together video + very informative.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      Thanks for watching

  • @SinaFarhat
    @SinaFarhat 3 года назад +2

    Thanks for the info! :)

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      no problem! thanks for watching

  • @igor-korolkov-ua
    @igor-korolkov-ua 3 года назад +1

    Good job! I liked the film on the ECN2 process more. But it seems undeveloped. At the same time, the film on the C41 process seems to be re-processed. I wonder what happens if you do the same test, but having the same density of negatives. I want to try this film too.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks. yea the look of the negatives is quite dramatically different. image wise tho, it seems like the differences arent massive

  • @VariTimo
    @VariTimo 3 года назад

    CineStill doesn’t use any proprietary method to remove the rem jet anymore. They just get the large uncut film rolls without the rem jet directly from Kodak. They have a factory in Rochester now. Also CineStill 800T has amazing color is daylight when you use an 85 filter. Rate it at the original 500 ASA (320 when not metering through the lens).

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea thats what i hear! no more "magic" haha

  • @MsLoribee
    @MsLoribee 3 года назад

    Very cool! I'm using ECN2 for all my color developing now. I just like the look it gives me, but I guess that's a personal thing. It was really interesting to see the effect it had on the RA4 developing though..

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      yea! i want to try developing other film in it as well. gonna try some of the classic favorites like portra 400, etc.

    • @MsLoribee
      @MsLoribee 3 года назад

      @@ribsy I love how Kodak Gold 200 looks with it.. puts a whole new spin on drugstore film!

  • @venteach.6289
    @venteach.6289 Год назад

    how can I tell the difference between a regular film roll and an ECN 2 film roll? I have an undeveloped roll of something I just can't tell if its ECN2 or C41.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  Год назад

      That’s tough

  • @AeromaticXD
    @AeromaticXD 3 года назад +3

    I like them both

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      same! each has its merits

  • @photomaster1
    @photomaster1 3 года назад +1

    Thank you for this... Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty to do what you like...

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      haha yea its fun to experiment. nice to experience these things

  • @jsuite
    @jsuite 3 года назад

    For real fun, try Portra or another C-41 film in ECN-2. CD3 (the color developing agent in ECN-2) produces purer dyes than CD4 (the color developing agent in C41), which is why CD3 is also used in slide film and color print material... but C41 film is designed to compensate for CD4's shortcomings, so when you pop it into a CD3-based developer it goes a bit crazy. Try it!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      Yea I have a kit I’m waiting to use soon

  • @laugary8186
    @laugary8186 3 года назад

    Thanks for you share,this great Video and what I want !

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      Glad it was useful

    • @laugary8186
      @laugary8186 3 года назад

      @@ribsy when you use ECN2 develop 800T,you will following ECN2 temperatur,Time(41.1C,3mins)?Thanks

  • @tas11117
    @tas11117 3 года назад +2

    Nice vid mate. Have subscribed.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      awesome thanks for watching. much appreciated 😊

  • @Volnas97
    @Volnas97 3 года назад

    Personally I like the colors for ECN2 better. Just one question, how did you make the prints? Did you just print them on printer, or did you make them in dark room?

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      hi! these prints are all darkroom prints. that's where the stark difference comes from

    • @Volnas97
      @Volnas97 3 года назад

      @@ribsy Ok. Thanks

  • @acmhc8
    @acmhc8 3 года назад

    I would like to see cinestill 800T vs. 5219 500T. The 800T in C41 vs. 5219 in ECN-2. I know it's not apples to apples but I would like to see what exactly is being sacrificed aside from the obvious helation when using cinestill.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      Maybe one day

  • @JoanneClegg
    @JoanneClegg 3 года назад

    This is a really good video. Thank you!

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for watching!

  • @sarahsayre2394
    @sarahsayre2394 3 года назад

    Great video! Thanks

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for watching 😊

  • @sonygoup
    @sonygoup 3 года назад

    Just curious can I used CN2 developer with the C-41 Kit?

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      good question, no clue! my hunch is that it probably works but then you won't be getting the "true" c41 results

  • @TAWPhotography
    @TAWPhotography 2 года назад

    Dope video and explanations

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @Stop4MotionMakr
    @Stop4MotionMakr 2 года назад

    I know you can't process Kodak vision in labs bcos it ruins other people's film and the machine. But what if you do it inidivudally by hand? Can you process Kodak vision in C-41? I'm trying to look for a cheap way to shoot colour negative and buying a 400' roll of Kodak vision seems like the way to go.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      Yes you can. I actually do that often nowadays - leads to more contrast

  • @NoviSavvy
    @NoviSavvy 3 года назад

    If considering hand processing (which is better than lab anyways and brings tons of fun) it is better to buy Kodak Vision directly which is 3 times cheaper and better in terms of anti-halation layer presence. Remjet is easy to remove as a first step not the last. Stop bath should be 1.28 car battery electrolyte 40ml/L or 50ml/L of 7N sulfuric acid. Recommended processing temperature of 41.1 (can safely be 40.5-41.5 or more) is required. Also the kit can be assembled much cheaper too from raw components (especially in Europe or US cause CD3 there is very cheap)

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      thanks for the details 😊 lots of science 😅

    • @nitten13
      @nitten13 3 года назад

      Here is the USA ultrafineonline.com is a great source for "Short ends" of most types of Kodak Vision stock. Plus it's already rolled in a cassette in a darkroom ready to load and shoot.

  • @harryperez8080
    @harryperez8080 3 года назад +1

    uuuu ECN2 KIT me sorprendio I really thought the top was c41 I really liked the Moodiness of the ECN2 ummmm ahora me tango queen ir a ver Como es ufff thanks for this was informative

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      hahah yea. i was surprised too. its nice to have options. i'll have to test again tho with different images

  • @guillermoperezsantos
    @guillermoperezsantos 3 года назад +1

    Nice video!! You should get real ECN2 film, the remjet helps a lot to get nice bright and not red highlights ;)

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      i have tried! i use it alot actually. i like the clean look

  • @jimpurcell
    @jimpurcell 2 года назад

    Very helpful

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      Glad you think so 😀

  • @flam3srock
    @flam3srock 3 года назад +2

    Hello, you can adjust contrast in ra-4 chemically: www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ra4-colour-printing-contrast.45837/
    Alternatively, use a mask. you can do it in photoshop but more trouble than it's worth

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      good shout. i have read about some of these in the past, def think i am going to try the method that uses BW developer with multiple ra4 rounds to boost contrast. these can be useful, but def experimental and not per se

  • @nanddis
    @nanddis 3 года назад

    Me gustan más los negativos del c41, pero los colores en positivos me gusta más ecn2

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      Si igual!

  • @shanecollins3565
    @shanecollins3565 3 года назад

    How have I been sleeping on this channel??

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      haha welcome aboard 😊

  • @DannyboyKR7
    @DannyboyKR7 5 месяцев назад

    나이가 먹었음에도 열아홉 수능에 왜 관심 가질지. 이 나이에 먹고사니즘이 우선이지 공부가 어쩧고 산수가 어쩧고. 내 자식 잘되길 바라는 산수는 어쩔 수 없지만 몸 고된 사람 병들어 고쳐주는 것은 산술이 아닌 마음의 행동이 아닐지. 타인 몸에 칼을 대는 것에 경솔하지 않으면 좋으련만요

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  4 месяца назад

      Wrong video

  • @mateuszulatowski2105
    @mateuszulatowski2105 2 года назад

    Cinestill 800T should be exposed at 500iso because its bassicly 500iso film, It gets more sensivity in C41 process.

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад +1

      yea exposing at 500 will reduce contrast

  • @victordesabata
    @victordesabata 3 года назад

    3.5 sec vs 14 sec is two stop difference

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад

      yea i think so. thats pretty drastic

  • @tooironictospeak
    @tooironictospeak 2 года назад

    Blok iklannya lama hih

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  2 года назад

      What?

    • @tooironictospeak
      @tooironictospeak 2 года назад

      @@ribsy at some point I thought c41 process make the negative lil bit over developed. What do you think?

  • @guillermoperezsantos
    @guillermoperezsantos 3 года назад +2

    Cinestill´s highlight-red glows sucks!!! Cinestill is a scam

    • @ribsy
      @ribsy  3 года назад +1

      lol. to each their own!