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@Frikoppie Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I don't know modern lingo either, I only exist online through RUclips and my e-mail, I don't have any social media account whatsoever, I don't even have a smartphone (just a 30 euro touch-button phone) my p.c. is still the same since 2009 and AudioPilz just asked me to text him on Telegram, which I don't know what it is and I have no other means of communicating with him, except these comments and my e-mail. Talking about primitive circumstances of online (in)activity....
@@thejollyjoker187 Be careful. Had such a message as well. Some people just create an account with addresses that are similarities the original but have nothing to do with the channel. Happened to me before. Just a new type of internet scam.
Comment 2 - Full circle, VSTs became Instrument-Quality, new Gear fully digital Computers, VSTs became Pseudo-Analogue, Korg Berlin made a Real Life FL Studio Sakura
Mine from 2009 (i7 920), connected to the internet, runs great, but i'm regularly taking care of it and maintaining it, ram upgrade, replacing dead gpu card, replacing the cpu to xeon 5675 and some new SSD. so its mostly the same case/mb/psu :) it's about 1/10 the power of the latest and greatest but good enough for me.
….I like the wood grain panel image of a synthesizer being displayed on my computer…..or how about oscillators that are programmed to heat up and drift on softsynths and randomly break! How’s that for potential realism in future versions on softsynths? The iOS Vogel CMI (soft fairlight) would over heat and burn up if you did not get the right power settings switched on correctly …..as a ‘joke’….forcing one to restart the app.
There is no reason why an old PC can’t run forever. Other than replacing a dying hard drive every 10 years or so. Vintage software synths and all. Hell with the updates.
People are still writing music on old Atari's and Commodores.... PC's don't generally just die, usually its the PSU or Hard Drive. But new drives are massive and reliable now and one can just clone their entire PC in case it were to ever fail.
I have spent literal weeks of my life midi mapping soft synths to midi controllers. Sometimes by writing config files by hand (Numark midi controller, and a korg DAW controller) which was no fun at all. I really don't know why I do it, because almost always, I use the same two knobs midi learned on the fly and record the automation, never to be touched again.😂😂😂
@@DJSockmonkeyMusic Haha, I have actually wondered if you could get a controller with just 1 big knob that can control whatever virtual control you last clicked on. But have you ever come up with a reasonably universal, one solution to rule them all? I've been thinking a Novation Launchcontrol XL would be good because apart from being able to use it as an 8-channel mixer control surface, you could assign the controls to most of the main common synth parameters - 8 faders become ADSR controls for an amp and a filter/mod envelope, then you have 3x8 knobs, or 6 groups of 4, to assign to common parameters for OSC1, OSC2, LFO1, LFO2, filter and either filter 2 if a synth has it, or maybe just leave 4 spare for ad-hoc MIDI learn mapping of anything else you need. There's also 16 buttons to play with, maybe they could be set up to cycle through oscillator range, oscillator and LFO waveforms, LFO sync, filter type & slope, etc. Then you'd have a consistent layout you could memorise that would cover the main parameters of most of your soft synths for immediate hands-on use (once mapped, heh) that should minimise the need for any on-the-fly mapping.
"They just add a raspberry pi and call it a synthesizer" Class! 😂 Not having space for hardware i love having the option to buy the more recent Korg Native offerings and the korg collection for their older gear is great. Can barely tell the difference between the hardware Triton Extreme and the software. Only wish i could use it as patch librarian and editor... just importing KSC files would be nice! Sound wise just missing the tube and MOSS board. What a time we live in for synth options!
Back when I used to make tunes in cakewalk 6 using AweBank98 and sound fonts using the soundcard’s cutoff filter and putting +20db gain on all samples because I hadn’t heard of distortion and overdrive.
I think people have a certain idea of what "analogue" sounds like, it's hard to say for sure the original is significantly less "analog". A lot of analog synths sounded very dirty and biting. This is an issue with guitar tube amps too - when models started to get "good" they often sounded overly smooth like they'd been fourier transformed for good measure. I remember having a Zoom G3 back in the day which was a step up in terms of realism, but you couldn't really get a "Crunchy" sound out of it without extensive EQ. I used the 2004 plugin in a track when producing for a virtual idol group because I was surprised at how lively it was, it had snappy envelopes instead of that kinda soft roll off associated with a lot of VSTs of that era.
Thank you for such a relevant topic to be covered, which isn't an 80s gear posing video! Recently I remastered and published a single produced some 23 years ago using Logic 5 with only Logic plugins on a Macbook Pro G4 667 MHz. The final mix was peaking close to full scale around DC and Nyquist. Aliasing, much? ...I was like AHA! Old plugin algorithms! Back then you had to fake it or you'd only get to run a handful of VSTs runtime. This is why UAD and TC Electronics et al came out with external DSP hardware at the time. Even the Waves plugins I used at work for video game production used severely broken math 15 years ago. Nowadays, we got enough CPU for VSTs to use proper math, compared to 20 years ago.
Note: Static VCO or VCF settings are not difficult to replicate in the digital domain. The non-linear transfer functions such as distortion and saturation in individual stages within the signal path are much harder to replicate, as is the non-linear transfer functions of time-varying envelopes, compressors and so on. Nulling a static waveform through a static filter is not going to reveal the differences. My money here would be on the Cherry emulation. Then again, I happen to live in Düsseldorf. City of DAF. Conny Plank is life. MS-20 ist Leben. Und Alle gegen Alle.
Had the legacy collection and controller for years, paired with a microkorg. I played that in a space rock band for a few gigs and enjoyed it immensely. Had a tiny little laptop from the 00s and it ran super smoothly. Fun episode! HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE and thanks Mr Pilz!
Oh, man, I don't blame you! That era/ line of E-mu samplers seem awesome! [Well, and others, too, ofc, but for different reasons/ uses. EII, Emax, etc.] And hey, you could sample patches made on plugins into that E5000, keeping things hardware based 👍
I watch your videos 3 times. First all the way through, then meme frame stop by stop, Finally all the way through again. I laugh through all 3. Your brain is on another level. Love it.
This video is so good! I didn't realize how good the 2004 version actually sounded! I also really appreciate the Pro-53 mini meme. When I was super noob and not knowing much, that was the first plugin where that clicked in my head "oh this sounds good. I'll use this one" .
I thought the original Virus TDM plugin for ProTools (circa 2002 or so) sounded fantastic. But there's also now a plugin that reliably emulates the Motorola DSP56300 engine used in the Virus and several other virtual analog synths from the 90's.
There's some real gems from that time period of VSTs, I use synth1 all the time despite it being a fairly old free synth. Still works great on modern DAWs and has a really cool sound that I just love lol
I commend you Florian for branching out with these episodes, blind guess tests, ranking past gear….instead of reviewing another Digitakt groovebox/synth wanna be or Roland TrTb or not 2Be.
I have a model like this, the iC version, and I use it with the iPad in the iMS-20 plugin and with Arturia's V Collection plugins, it's very responsive and sounds absurdly good, I just missed the LEDs marking the sync, but on the iPad the LEDs perfectly mark the synchronization
I picked up a brand new K2 a couple years ago and think it wins this sound competition hands down, but that's just me, and who can trust my ears that say the BR110 Clap is the best in the business.
I have all the Arturia, G Force and Cherry Audio vsts. They work just as good as the real thing. And throwing some saturation on some of the tracks take them to the next level.
Man i would have loved to see if the iPad app sounds any different. It was literally the first app i ever bought. I have a filthy ipad 2 with an Akai Synthstation lying around, it had a very interesting sound due to the old-ish dac and maybe the 30-pin connector (?)...i might boot it up again just because this awesome video!
@@JustDoIt-xq9pi They should mostly sound the same, especially today. It would be uneconomical to recode the dsp algos etc. Back then though, the iPads had a lot less CPU power compared to the PCs at the time, which has since obviously changed. The iPad 2 had a 30-pin connector, an integrated DAC, combined with the Akai Synthstation sounded quite fat! I think i will boot that old setup up again...
Good topic Florian! A lot of "modern" plugins (even the paid) are worse than their older "brothers" -> They take 100* more cpu (Honestly the DS-10 is a perfect example: a simple ms20 like vst (with even 2 synths ) running on a 4mb 66mhz device) , they're sometime worst sounding and they're expensive too (waiting the behringer plugins lol if they can run on an xp pc xD)
I really love all of the incredible independent developers and small teams making vst software these days. Aberrant DSP has been a favorite the past few years for making crunchy lofi stuff. Larger companies will always have the ability to make larger scale products like Arturia’s Analog Lab but these larger software packages are also often a pain in the ass when it comes to licensing, requiring additional applications to run constantly to check the licenses, and hard to move between multiple workstations.
running "a demo" Holy crap, I do like the 2004 plugin more. Arturia's does sound closer to what I remember my mini sounding like (rip), but I actually really dig how the 2004 sounded in the last jam especially- by just a smidgen. Kinda curious how I'd feel about Cherry Audio's plugin in the same context. Which once again tells me literally nobody but the person making the music will care what the hell hard/software any of us use as long as we use it decently, lol
this reminds me that I once did a test with DX-7 emulations. I imported the same DX-7 sysex file to Arturia DX V, Native Instruments' FM8, and Digital Suburban's Dexed plugin. There was no parity between them. Sonically, they all output different envelopes, etc. I imagine with a LOT of tweaking, someone could get them to get in line, but you might EXPECT that using the same sysex starting point (and not the on-screen values for each knob or slider) they would at least be close. Nope.
Ahhhh plugins.... everytime you buy one you think to yourself "that's the one that gon' be better than hardware!"... you write the track all night, carefully crafting the sound and then the next morning comes. You listen to your track and somberly mumble to yourself: "even my Rhythm Wolf had better kick".
VST:s have come a long way since they first appeared. I wasn’t that impressed back then. One of my friends was an early adopter and raved about them being the future. I thought that they sounded cold and lifeless compared to my old analog machines. But nowadays I see a lot of them as just as good as the machines they try to copy. TAL software, D16 Group and Softtube are developers that comes to mind beside the standard ones.
Legacy sounds so much more present and gnarly compared to Arturia. Surprising, because on their own the Arturia emulations sound great. Thanks for the head-to-head 🙏
honestly i think so, my main workflow is basically pulling up 100 instances of serum and UAD PolyMax (underrated btw) and going ham, sprinkled in with some other usual suspects like pigments and phase plant. Even my ob6 was replaced with OBxd because they were too similar But theres something about fondling some real knobs that makes me feel like a real musician :( I remember the sad day i let go of my beloved waldorf quantum because it was too similar to pigments, truly is what it is also 30 minutes ago is wild bazoinga
0:25 I remember people debating if Madonna had used ReBirth RB-338 on her Ray of Light album back in 1999. I don't think she did, but RB-338 sounded really good back then.
I will admit that, though I’ve long resisted plug-ins because they sit in a sequencer and I have long resisted sequencing my parts, I was tempted by Korg Legacy, especially after the MS-2000 and original microKorg hit the market. It didn’t hurt that George Duke endorsed it. I liked the idea of having all those virtual engines at arm’s length, and that MS-20 controller also appealed to me. Then, I suppose the envelope generator on my interest had a rapid decay and release time with zero sustain. One thing I just wondered is if the MS-20 Mini that succeeded the Legacy bundle was fitted with system exclusive interfacing for that software.
I got the original MS-20 Legacy with the IC controller new back in the day. I would like to dedicate a moment of thought and appreciation to the fact that Korg, in 2020 still supported 15 year old software and updated the GUI to be scalable for modern screens.
I had the Korg legacy, and regret selling it. it sounded killer and the patching worked better than the real thing (on my Behringer clone). the thing I didn't like whas that you could not put audio through it. but looking back I should have kept it.
Interesting comparison thanks. While I’m definitely a “hardware” guy, I am also fan of the Korg legacy collection ( where I have been also been able to directly compare to some of the to hardware). They’re so close to me it makes no difference. As I believe the Korg Kronos also runs the same software in a synth chassis, I have wondered how the Kronos versions compare to originals🤔
Still got my Korg legacy collection and MS20ic controller. Use it all the time. It even works as a keyboard for my mpc live 2 😂 hasn't dated at all.. There's certainly some more power hungry vsts out there, but their code just uses up CPU & ram like crazy. Korg still update their legacy collection to this day, great software.
The arturia sounds so good I been waiting on a sale to get it.. stands up against the behringer k2 I had.. the korg software sounds bad rattly and buzzy imo
There are indeed some old 32bit plugins i've become attached to... FL Studio Wasp comes to mind immediately as it is 32bit only, and sadly not possible to bridge FL-native plugins to it's 64bit DAW only (after version 20.8.4) (no it is not an exact E.D.P. Wasp clone, it is more its own little thing)
I'll die before I give up my Pro-53. Also my Waldorf Attack and Microtonic still get used in most tracks and they're clocking in at 20 years now I think. They're quick to load, and have a responsive GUI and sound great. One of the things you didn't mention that also is a big drawback IMHO with the Arturia synths is how frickn slow they are to load. The focus on a massive, slick gui has lead them to developing bloatware. Yeah the sound is great but what's the point if it takes 3-4 times as long to load when you're in the zone?
Imo Korg pulled some black magic with their analog emulation plugins. Much more impressed with their software than recent hardware outings. I recently made a track that only used the ims20 iPad version and an sp404, and I swear it sounds more "analog" than a lot of tracks I've made with actual analog gear. I dunno maybe it's because I haven't really played a real MS20, but I was super impressed with the sound. Big shout out to the Korg iOdyssey as well. Ironically less impressed by the iM1, which is all digital! Like that should be one to one, but I feel like I gotta drown the iM1 in effects and bit reduction to make it sound the way I want.
@@AudioPilz that's so interesting you say that! That's exactly what it seems like! That must be why I keep coming back to them when I need something specific mid way through a track.
When I saw the Korg legacy collection advertised in keyboard magazine I had to have it. I hade a lot of patches with it and I love using the controller. Even thought its not analogue I feel its better that having a hardware MS20 because you can made the sounds polyphonic.
The Korg Legacy MS 20 can sound very close to the original for me, except when trying to abuse the audio feedback to try doing some of Daft Punk stuff. I have never tried the Arturia one. For those whanting a free vst doing MS-20 stuff in its cleaner range of sounds there are the Full Bucket FB 3100 3200 and 3300 (as the original Korg PS, the filter cannot be pushed far in the gritty way such as an MS-10 or MS-20). Otherwise the Full Bucket Ragnarök is also free and can sound close to a MS-20 for square waves. OK, the Ragnarök is a radically different synth design than a MS-20, but has a filter (and onboard distortion for Daft Punk stuff) that can sound MS-20ish in a mix, it may not be the same exactly, but it is the synth that I tend to prefer for those kind of dirty sounds, to the point I ended up not buying the Korg Collection MS-20 after the demo period expired.
2004 sucked! But the year 2000 was an amazing year for soft-synths with Absynth, PPG 2.0 that I still use to this day, and even the Virus TDM version that I thought was soo cool and made me want to get protools (until I actually tried using protools...) I'd like to see a competition between the years that "vintage" softsynths came out. Though I'm not sure how you'd do a thorough job of that without visiting the "Warez" side of the internet. Regardless I bet 2000 would be pretty strong contender!
I remember when Arturia released the DX7 V. I didn't see a good reason to use it instead of Dexed since one DX7 V consumes the same CPU as 20 Dexeds. It's kind of the same for Jun6 V and Tal-Uno. Anyway, I'm silly enough to always keep buying the Arturia stuff, even if I'm not a musician, and keep using the same old VSTs (Diva, Keyscape, Battery...).
Funnily enough the Korg plugin even in it's ancient form sounds more like most MS-20's I've heard in the wild Alex's is oddly mellow by MS-20 standards while not being overly mellow. But I think I'd rather buy a new MS-20 Mini or an OG over either plugin but I prefer hardware anyways but the plugins have more stable tuning I'm sure as the MS029 is almost as notorious for having tuning issues as it is for it's overtly aggressive sounds.
Pro52/3 was incredible. I love it. I keep an old Mac around just for it (oh and Absynth) and pray it never crashes as the train wreck that is NI Service Center will not install it anymore
This comment is better than others because it was written with a real IBM Model M Keyboard. My letters are analog, warm, and full of vintage vibes with high fidelity.
Spotted this video mere minutes after some synth snob on a Facebook group was trying to convince me that my MS-20 Mini sounds "disappointing" compared the his vintage MS-20. I think if he watched this he'd burst into flames 😂
@@AudioPilz Da. Seeing his fabulous mugshot made me think "I want to know if our favourite Austrian Moby can dance a jig in front of his various Elektron groove boxes and Behringer synths" =] Also if you get 1 million : Elektron must make the meme groovebox =D
That last comment was savage rofl! I feel while the Aturia plugin waves sound more like the real ms20 - The OG plugin filters from korg and parameters sound more like the actual MS20 - just a tad bit brighter like said. I friggen love my danm ms20.
Full Tracks, Extended Jams, Sample Packs:
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Support the channel regardless of what your G.A.S. tells you to buy:
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No such thing as gas with soft synths.
@Frikoppie Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I don't know modern lingo either, I only exist online through RUclips and my e-mail, I don't have any social media account whatsoever, I don't even have a smartphone (just a 30 euro touch-button phone) my p.c. is still the same since 2009 and AudioPilz just asked me to text him on Telegram, which I don't know what it is and I have no other means of communicating with him, except these comments and my e-mail. Talking about primitive circumstances of online (in)activity....
@@thejollyjoker187 Be careful. Had such a message as well. Some people just create an account with addresses that are similarities the original but have nothing to do with the channel. Happened to me before. Just a new type of internet scam.
@@marcbrasse747 Thanks. I should imagine so.. Not knowing what Telegram is kind of saved me, haha..
Clearly the sweet spot between vintage hardware and modern softsynths would be vintage softsynths. 😆
That was the idea behind all this;)
There are some FB groups about that.
yeah the vintage ones just sounds warmer fatter and deeper... more 3d... 😏😏
@@asor8037 wintage
What I have learnt:
Dirty water filters? - Bad 😞
Dirty synth filters? - Good 😁
#science
“Learned”
You can add that to your list too 😂😂
I keeeed I keeeeed
@@tattooguy413 Sorry, I don't speak or spell American. Only proper English 😁
@@lairdkilbarchan😂😂😂
@@tattooguy413PWNED!
You are the greatest synth / gear reviewer in all of synthood. Bless you 🔥🙏🏾🔥
Thank you so much for the support!!! Much appreciated!!!
Because he donated $19.99 to the channel as a superchat@Frikoppie
@Frikoppie lol I donated to the channel 💰❤️
Netflix needs to sign this show asap. We need this to be shown in any music school and every studio.
Bad Gear is a culture white stone at this point.
Thank you so much!!!❤️❤️❤️
Netflix will just buy the Behringer Bad Gear clone.
Comment 2 - Full circle, VSTs became Instrument-Quality, new Gear fully digital Computers, VSTs became Pseudo-Analogue, Korg Berlin made a Real Life FL Studio Sakura
Welcome to the future!!!
I don't understand your last part ? FL studio Sakura ?! What day mean?
@@bankruptinberlin FL Studio is a DAW, Sakura is a pseudo-analogue plugin
Search in RUclips
I have a pc from 2005 that I never hooked up to the internet ever. Runs all my old programs and daws perfectly fine.
Nice!!!
Same here, only from 2009.
Never change a running system.
Sounds like a WareZ PC!!
Mine from 2009 (i7 920), connected to the internet, runs great, but i'm regularly taking care of it and maintaining it, ram upgrade, replacing dead gpu card, replacing the cpu to xeon 5675 and some new SSD. so its mostly the same case/mb/psu :)
it's about 1/10 the power of the latest and greatest but good enough for me.
As far as virtual instruments go, nothing has ever replaced the absolute joy I got from first playing on Rebirth. So much fun
Yep. thats it for me too.
The Classic!!!
great video, now let's buy more synthesizers
Hell yeah!!!
….I like the wood grain panel image of a synthesizer being displayed on my computer…..or how about oscillators that are programmed to heat up and drift on softsynths and randomly break! How’s that for potential realism in future versions on softsynths?
The iOS Vogel CMI (soft fairlight) would over heat and burn up if you did not get the right power settings switched on correctly …..as a ‘joke’….forcing one to restart the app.
Suggestion: Retro music software comparisons should be published on YT up to a max of 240p video quality.
I thought about messing with every bit of footage containing the old plugin but it would have made the comparison a little too hard...
Record the video on an old VCR from the 80's.
Nice! ...good to see the Software Synth bros taking a turn on the BadGear roller coaster ride
Always a pleasure;)
Oh god, back to stuff I own 😬
Nothing personal;)
There is no reason why an old PC can’t run forever. Other than replacing a dying hard drive every 10 years or so. Vintage software synths and all. Hell with the updates.
Like a big fat old workstation synth!!!
People are still writing music on old Atari's and Commodores.... PC's don't generally just die, usually its the PSU or Hard Drive. But new drives are massive and reliable now and one can just clone their entire PC in case it were to ever fail.
Slap an SSD in there for
Dankpods did a video on how his 2006 mac is better than a modern iPad lol.
@@AudioPilz AKA Fairlight CMI LOL:)
All my plugins feels like clicking my mouse... which i am
Makes sense to me;)
I have spent literal weeks of my life midi mapping soft synths to midi controllers. Sometimes by writing config files by hand (Numark midi controller, and a korg DAW controller) which was no fun at all.
I really don't know why I do it, because almost always, I use the same two knobs midi learned on the fly and record the automation, never to be touched again.😂😂😂
@@DJSockmonkeyMusic Haha, I have actually wondered if you could get a controller with just 1 big knob that can control whatever virtual control you last clicked on.
But have you ever come up with a reasonably universal, one solution to rule them all? I've been thinking a Novation Launchcontrol XL would be good because apart from being able to use it as an 8-channel mixer control surface, you could assign the controls to most of the main common synth parameters - 8 faders become ADSR controls for an amp and a filter/mod envelope, then you have 3x8 knobs, or 6 groups of 4, to assign to common parameters for OSC1, OSC2, LFO1, LFO2, filter and either filter 2 if a synth has it, or maybe just leave 4 spare for ad-hoc MIDI learn mapping of anything else you need. There's also 16 buttons to play with, maybe they could be set up to cycle through oscillator range, oscillator and LFO waveforms, LFO sync, filter type & slope, etc. Then you'd have a consistent layout you could memorise that would cover the main parameters of most of your soft synths for immediate hands-on use (once mapped, heh) that should minimise the need for any on-the-fly mapping.
@@rhythmace1 that's actually a brilliant idea!
@@rhythmace1 short answer, no. Never. Always the top three knobs on my bsp
"They just add a raspberry pi and call it a synthesizer" Class! 😂
Not having space for hardware i love having the option to buy the more recent Korg Native offerings and the korg collection for their older gear is great. Can barely tell the difference between the hardware Triton Extreme and the software. Only wish i could use it as patch librarian and editor... just importing KSC files would be nice!
Sound wise just missing the tube and MOSS board.
What a time we live in for synth options!
Thanks!!!😀😀😀
You can set the prophecy plug-in to polyphonic to get into moss territory
from now on I'm calling Friday "Florian"
❤️❤️❤️Have a nice weekend!!!
"Ma, it's Friday, I gots to take mah Pilz"
That low kick to Korg at the very end 👌nohice
😀
The Korg Legacy Collection was pure evil and I LOVED that controller. Ugh! So great
Agreed!!!
I thought it was a joke and that was a real ms-20... What are the jacks then for?
Back when I used to make tunes in cakewalk 6 using AweBank98 and sound fonts using the soundcard’s cutoff filter and putting +20db gain on all samples because I hadn’t heard of distortion and overdrive.
Nice technique!!!;)
I think people have a certain idea of what "analogue" sounds like, it's hard to say for sure the original is significantly less "analog". A lot of analog synths sounded very dirty and biting. This is an issue with guitar tube amps too - when models started to get "good" they often sounded overly smooth like they'd been fourier transformed for good measure. I remember having a Zoom G3 back in the day which was a step up in terms of realism, but you couldn't really get a "Crunchy" sound out of it without extensive EQ.
I used the 2004 plugin in a track when producing for a virtual idol group because I was surprised at how lively it was, it had snappy envelopes instead of that kinda soft roll off associated with a lot of VSTs of that era.
The envelopes are really snappy indeed
And yes, the Arturia version is its own beast. Glad I’m not crazy 😢
Absolutely!!!
Thank you for such a relevant topic to be covered, which isn't an 80s gear posing video! Recently I remastered and published a single produced some 23 years ago using Logic 5 with only Logic plugins on a Macbook Pro G4 667 MHz. The final mix was peaking close to full scale around DC and Nyquist. Aliasing, much? ...I was like AHA! Old plugin algorithms! Back then you had to fake it or you'd only get to run a handful of VSTs runtime. This is why UAD and TC Electronics et al came out with external DSP hardware at the time. Even the Waves plugins I used at work for video game production used severely broken math 15 years ago. Nowadays, we got enough CPU for VSTs to use proper math, compared to 20 years ago.
Note: Static VCO or VCF settings are not difficult to replicate in the digital domain. The non-linear transfer functions such as distortion and saturation in individual stages within the signal path are much harder to replicate, as is the non-linear transfer functions of time-varying envelopes, compressors and so on. Nulling a static waveform through a static filter is not going to reveal the differences. My money here would be on the Cherry emulation.
Then again, I happen to live in Düsseldorf. City of DAF. Conny Plank is life. MS-20 ist Leben. Und Alle gegen Alle.
Yeah, those were the days
the age of vintage plug-ins on always offline windows 95 computers is upon us!
❤️❤️❤️
God help us all!
Windows 93 if you're a hardcore hipster.
6:23 wow I completely forgot about Arturia Origin. That will be one hell of a Bad Gear episode.
I want one so badly!!!
Had the legacy collection and controller for years, paired with a microkorg. I played that in a space rock band for a few gigs and enjoyed it immensely. Had a tiny little laptop from the 00s and it ran super smoothly. Fun episode! HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE and thanks Mr Pilz!
Thanks!!! Nice zero years setup!!!
Plugins? < My GAS telling me I need an EMU E5000 Ultra
Word!!!
We need a proper Emu Emulator X reboot that sounds better
Oh, man, I don't blame you! That era/ line of E-mu samplers seem awesome!
[Well, and others, too, ofc, but for different reasons/ uses. EII, Emax, etc.]
And hey, you could sample patches made on plugins into that E5000, keeping things hardware based 👍
@@slipknotboy555 Emu E4s are amazing. I use them often on my channel.
I watch your videos 3 times. First all the way through, then meme frame stop by stop, Finally all the way through again. I laugh through all 3. Your brain is on another level. Love it.
Thank you so much!!!
My brain is very simple. I see a bald man with a piece of audio gear and I click. It's wild to see how far we've come! Great video! :D
Thank you so much!!!
@@AudioPilz Pavlovian synthesis
I offer both of those criteria on my channel. (End of shameless plug. 😉)
no joke i still use FM7 and KORG Legacy VST's from the 'Windows XP' era and they sound AMAZING.
Agreed!!!
This video is so good! I didn't realize how good the 2004 version actually sounded! I also really appreciate the Pro-53 mini meme. When I was super noob and not knowing much, that was the first plugin where that clicked in my head "oh this sounds good. I'll use this one" .
Thank you!!!
That was certain a huge amount of preparation for producing this video just for our entertainment. Thank you Florian!
Thank you so much!!!
3:13 - they are all exact same :D
OMG, my antivirus sounded the alarm when it recognized a Windos XP in the video. Sausage == Everything Everywhere All at Once 😛
😂😂😂
I thought the original Virus TDM plugin for ProTools (circa 2002 or so) sounded fantastic. But there's also now a plugin that reliably emulates the Motorola DSP56300 engine used in the Virus and several other virtual analog synths from the 90's.
That plug is so mind boggling!!!
This Baby MS-20 is my Controler Centerpiece in my Studio for many years. And yes, the Wavestation Plugin sounds great!
I wanted one for 20 years;)
I loved it until it stopped working for no reason after a while lol
iPad with AUv3 is good too , iaa/Audio bus mess become classic.
👍👍👍
There's some real gems from that time period of VSTs, I use synth1 all the time despite it being a fairly old free synth. Still works great on modern DAWs and has a really cool sound that I just love lol
Ah, Synth1 is so great!!!
i really liked the editing in this
Thank you!!!
...aaaand the vintage plugin sounds warmer than the new ones. Just great.
;)
And now I'm running away... "I'm just kidding!!! I doubt they changed much if anything"🤣
i think the new one is warmer, but the old one is more articulate/filthy
AudioPilz=the new Sunday morning communion...more KORG pleez!!💓
❤️❤️❤️
no matter how good plugins get, i still like having a synth or two
Maybe more than one or two;)
also have an offline xp 32 bit system with dsp's in it. Haven't heard anything surpass it yet
I like the Mr. Oiza Flatbeat / Flat Eric hot dog cigar :) My kids love that Flat Beat video too.
Check out Alex Ball’s great video about it!
How is it that Arturia synth sounds always sound flatter than a pancake?
Shots fired;)
Loving how this channel is branching out, another great video Florian! 🤘
Thank you so much!!!
I like your use of a sausage in a “Flat Eric” way.
That was Alex Ball;)
I commend you Florian for branching out with these episodes, blind guess tests, ranking past gear….instead of reviewing another Digitakt groovebox/synth wanna be or Roland TrTb or not 2Be.
Will do, thanks!!!
I have a model like this, the iC version, and I use it with the iPad in the iMS-20 plugin and with Arturia's V Collection plugins, it's very responsive and sounds absurdly good, I just missed the LEDs marking the sync, but on the iPad the LEDs perfectly mark the synchronization
Nice!!!
I picked up a brand new K2 a couple years ago and think it wins this sound competition hands down, but that's just me, and who can trust my ears that say the BR110 Clap is the best in the business.
Ah, the ULI-20 ;)
KLC MS-20 + MS20ic was a ton of fun. Still running fine on W10, but with the "new gen" Legacy Collection.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks!!! Nice!!!
@@AudioPilz That epic slap on the back of Korg's head at the end.😆
I came to Vienna this week, so made the essential pilgrimage to Klangfarbe- a lot of gear ticking all the boxes there!
Nice!!!
I have all the Arturia, G Force and Cherry Audio vsts. They work just as good as the real thing. And throwing some saturation on some of the tracks take them to the next level.
👍👍👍
Arturia should implement the patch cables feature on their plugin to allow for using the korg controller fully.
I think that's patchable
@@AudioPilz you mean the plugin "gets" when you physically patch on the controller? 🤔
4:15 omg I was making the exact same face as I heard the second demo... hahahaha
ooooffff that shot fired at the end... rip Korg!
I feel you;)
Wow, this is science! Nice comparison.
Thank you so much!!!
Man i would have loved to see if the iPad app sounds any different. It was literally the first app i ever bought. I have a filthy ipad 2 with an Akai Synthstation lying around, it had a very interesting sound due to the old-ish dac and maybe the 30-pin connector (?)...i might boot it up again just because this awesome video!
@@JustDoIt-xq9pi They should mostly sound the same, especially today. It would be uneconomical to recode the dsp algos etc. Back then though, the iPads had a lot less CPU power compared to the PCs at the time, which has since obviously changed. The iPad 2 had a 30-pin connector, an integrated DAC, combined with the Akai Synthstation sounded quite fat! I think i will boot that old setup up again...
Thanks!!! It most probably sounds exactly like the desktop version
Weekend is just not the same without checking all the boxes. Happy weekend anyway! 😀
Have a nice one too!!!
Good topic Florian!
A lot of "modern" plugins (even the paid) are worse than their older "brothers" -> They take 100* more cpu (Honestly the DS-10 is a perfect example: a simple ms20 like vst (with even 2 synths ) running on a 4mb 66mhz device) , they're sometime worst sounding and they're expensive too (waiting the behringer plugins lol if they can run on an xp pc xD)
Thank you! Happy to hear that!!!
I really love all of the incredible independent developers and small teams making vst software these days. Aberrant DSP has been a favorite the past few years for making crunchy lofi stuff.
Larger companies will always have the ability to make larger scale products like Arturia’s Analog Lab but these larger software packages are also often a pain in the ass when it comes to licensing, requiring additional applications to run constantly to check the licenses, and hard to move between multiple workstations.
Agreed!!!
running "a demo"
Holy crap, I do like the 2004 plugin more. Arturia's does sound closer to what I remember my mini sounding like (rip), but I actually really dig how the 2004 sounded in the last jam especially- by just a smidgen. Kinda curious how I'd feel about Cherry Audio's plugin in the same context.
Which once again tells me literally nobody but the person making the music will care what the hell hard/software any of us use as long as we use it decently, lol
I feel the exact same way
I could listen t you for the whole 9 minutes just repeating the word. "Vintage". Love the Mr Oizo hot dog.
Thank you so much!!!
this reminds me that I once did a test with DX-7 emulations.
I imported the same DX-7 sysex file to Arturia DX V, Native Instruments' FM8, and Digital Suburban's Dexed plugin.
There was no parity between them. Sonically, they all output different envelopes, etc.
I imagine with a LOT of tweaking, someone could get them to get in line, but you might EXPECT that using the same sysex starting point (and not the on-screen values for each knob or slider) they would at least be close. Nope.
Close but no cigar...
VSTs went next level the moment Diva released. ;) But it IS still nice to process them with some hardware...
Agreed!!!
Ahhhh plugins.... everytime you buy one you think to yourself "that's the one that gon' be better than hardware!"... you write the track all night, carefully crafting the sound and then the next morning comes. You listen to your track and somberly mumble to yourself: "even my Rhythm Wolf had better kick".
Lol, I feel you!!!
Rhythm Wolf for the win! 💪
Nice comment though, you're right!
@@RaverOperatorGeeza Wolf is not that bad actually! thnx!
yeah fr no cap that's what being a sound designer is like for me tbh
@@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135 to all of us bro
Can't wait to see Analogue Solutions Colossus on Bad Gear.
Let's see if we can find an excuse for that;)
The "Old Free VSTi Gems From The Past" thread on KVR is at 924 pages now...
VST:s have come a long way since they first appeared. I wasn’t that impressed back then. One of my friends was an early adopter and raved about them being the future. I thought that they sounded cold and lifeless compared to my old analog machines. But nowadays I see a lot of them as just as good as the machines they try to copy. TAL software, D16 Group and Softtube are developers that comes to mind beside the standard ones.
Love TAL stuff!!!
Legacy sounds so much more present and gnarly compared to Arturia. Surprising, because on their own the Arturia emulations sound great. Thanks for the head-to-head 🙏
Agreed!!!
honestly i think so, my main workflow is basically pulling up 100 instances of serum and UAD PolyMax (underrated btw) and going ham, sprinkled in with some other usual suspects like pigments and phase plant. Even my ob6 was replaced with OBxd because they were too similar
But theres something about fondling some real knobs that makes me feel like a real musician :( I remember the sad day i let go of my beloved waldorf quantum because it was too similar to pigments, truly is what it is
also 30 minutes ago is wild bazoinga
Great workflow!!!
The main point is to have fun :)
Word!!!
0:25 I remember people debating if Madonna had used ReBirth RB-338 on her Ray of Light album back in 1999. I don't think she did, but RB-338 sounded really good back then.
ReBirth FTW!!!
I will admit that, though I’ve long resisted plug-ins because they sit in a sequencer and I have long resisted sequencing my parts, I was tempted by Korg Legacy, especially after the MS-2000 and original microKorg hit the market. It didn’t hurt that George Duke endorsed it. I liked the idea of having all those virtual engines at arm’s length, and that MS-20 controller also appealed to me. Then, I suppose the envelope generator on my interest had a rapid decay and release time with zero sustain.
One thing I just wondered is if the MS-20 Mini that succeeded the Legacy bundle was fitted with system exclusive interfacing for that software.
@-TE-LE-GRAM-TheAudioPilz - SWITCH OFF!
Sorry for the bots, it's a whack-a-mole...
Nothing human made is immune to the underside of what we are, @@AudioPilz.
Happy Friday Florian! Still waiting for the Planet Phatt
Have a nice weekend!!! Still trying to find an excuse for that one
I got the original MS-20 Legacy with the IC controller new back in the day. I would like to dedicate a moment of thought and appreciation to the fact that Korg, in 2020 still supported 15 year old software and updated the GUI to be scalable for modern screens.
Yeah, big ups to korg
I had the Korg legacy, and regret selling it. it sounded killer and the patching worked better than the real thing (on my Behringer clone). the thing I didn't like whas that you could not put audio through it. but looking back I should have kept it.
I feel you
Interesting comparison thanks. While I’m definitely a “hardware” guy, I am also fan of the Korg legacy collection ( where I have been also been able to directly compare to some of the to hardware). They’re so close to me it makes no difference. As I believe the Korg Kronos also runs the same software in a synth chassis, I have wondered how the Kronos versions compare to originals🤔
Thank you!!!
Yeah! I recently bought a Korg MS20ic for 100 bucks and am very pleased😄
Nice find!!!
Still got my Korg legacy collection and MS20ic controller. Use it all the time. It even works as a keyboard for my mpc live 2 😂 hasn't dated at all.. There's certainly some more power hungry vsts out there, but their code just uses up CPU & ram like crazy. Korg still update their legacy collection to this day, great software.
Nice!!!
The arturia sounds so good I been waiting on a sale to get it.. stands up against the behringer k2 I had.. the korg software sounds bad rattly and buzzy imo
👍👍👍
There are indeed some old 32bit plugins i've become attached to... FL Studio Wasp comes to mind immediately as it is 32bit only, and sadly not possible to bridge FL-native plugins to it's 64bit DAW only (after version 20.8.4)
(no it is not an exact E.D.P. Wasp clone, it is more its own little thing)
Those demo jams went hard, and are a good reminder that even a simple monosynth from 40+ years ago is plenty for making bangers.
😀😀😀
There's nothing quite like nerding out over the minutiae of tone
Always a pleasure;)
I'll die before I give up my Pro-53. Also my Waldorf Attack and Microtonic still get used in most tracks and they're clocking in at 20 years now I think. They're quick to load, and have a responsive GUI and sound great. One of the things you didn't mention that also is a big drawback IMHO with the Arturia synths is how frickn slow they are to load. The focus on a massive, slick gui has lead them to developing bloatware. Yeah the sound is great but what's the point if it takes 3-4 times as long to load when you're in the zone?
Pro-53 is awesome!!!
Mysteriously my Ableton Live 5 on XP not internet judt stopped saving. No more license. Ditto FM7/8
Weird stuff!!!
Imo Korg pulled some black magic with their analog emulation plugins. Much more impressed with their software than recent hardware outings. I recently made a track that only used the ims20 iPad version and an sp404, and I swear it sounds more "analog" than a lot of tracks I've made with actual analog gear. I dunno maybe it's because I haven't really played a real MS20, but I was super impressed with the sound. Big shout out to the Korg iOdyssey as well. Ironically less impressed by the iM1, which is all digital! Like that should be one to one, but I feel like I gotta drown the iM1 in effects and bit reduction to make it sound the way I want.
Old Korg emulations seem to be created to just "work" in a mix
@@AudioPilz that's so interesting you say that! That's exactly what it seems like! That must be why I keep coming back to them when I need something specific mid way through a track.
03:14 nice Flat Beat reference 😂
😀😀😀
When I saw the Korg legacy collection advertised in keyboard magazine I had to have it. I hade a lot of patches with it and I love using the controller. Even thought its not analogue I feel its better that having a hardware MS20 because you can made the sounds polyphonic.
Same here!!!
The Korg Legacy MS 20 can sound very close to the original for me, except when trying to abuse the audio feedback to try doing some of Daft Punk stuff. I have never tried the Arturia one.
For those whanting a free vst doing MS-20 stuff in its cleaner range of sounds there are the Full Bucket FB 3100 3200 and 3300 (as the original Korg PS, the filter cannot be pushed far in the gritty way such as an MS-10 or MS-20). Otherwise the Full Bucket Ragnarök is also free and can sound close to a MS-20 for square waves. OK, the Ragnarök is a radically different synth design than a MS-20, but has a filter (and onboard distortion for Daft Punk stuff) that can sound MS-20ish in a mix, it may not be the same exactly, but it is the synth that I tend to prefer for those kind of dirty sounds, to the point I ended up not buying the Korg Collection MS-20 after the demo period expired.
Full Bucket stuff is really nice!!!
2004 sucked!
But the year 2000 was an amazing year for soft-synths with Absynth, PPG 2.0 that I still use to this day, and even the Virus TDM version that I thought was soo cool and made me want to get protools (until I actually tried using protools...)
I'd like to see a competition between the years that "vintage" softsynths came out. Though I'm not sure how you'd do a thorough job of that without visiting the "Warez" side of the internet.
Regardless I bet 2000 would be pretty strong contender!
You wouldn't download a synth?;)
nice, ms 20 is so cool. Also one of arturias best analog emulations
👍👍👍😀😀😀
Next mission : is a squarewave différent from another squarewave 😝
They actually differ substantially;)
I remember when Arturia released the DX7 V. I didn't see a good reason to use it instead of Dexed since one DX7 V consumes the same CPU as 20 Dexeds. It's kind of the same for Jun6 V and Tal-Uno. Anyway, I'm silly enough to always keep buying the Arturia stuff, even if I'm not a musician, and keep using the same old VSTs (Diva, Keyscape, Battery...).
It's hard to keep up with dexed
Funnily enough the Korg plugin even in it's ancient form sounds more like most MS-20's I've heard in the wild Alex's is oddly mellow by MS-20 standards while not being overly mellow. But I think I'd rather buy a new MS-20 Mini or an OG over either plugin but I prefer hardware anyways but the plugins have more stable tuning I'm sure as the MS029 is almost as notorious for having tuning issues as it is for it's overtly aggressive sounds.
👍👍👍
Missed opportunity to compare with the Nintendo ds version haha
I have an episode on that tho;)
Pro52/3 was incredible. I love it. I keep an old Mac around just for it (oh and Absynth) and pray it never crashes as the train wreck that is NI Service Center will not install it anymore
Love it!!!
1:33 Supersaw, but beware of Kryptonite. 😃
😀😀😀
This comment is better than others because it was written with a real IBM Model M Keyboard. My letters are analog, warm, and full of vintage vibes with high fidelity.
It's science
Spotted this video mere minutes after some synth snob on a Facebook group was trying to convince me that my MS-20 Mini sounds "disappointing" compared the his vintage MS-20. I think if he watched this he'd burst into flames 😂
Don't hate me for that but I actually prefer the plugin to the Mini;)
@@AudioPilz 😳🔥
So Florian: 200k subscribers for a studio tour?
Didn't Alex Ball do this for the 150K yesterday?;)
@@AudioPilz Da. Seeing his fabulous mugshot made me think "I want to know if our favourite Austrian Moby can dance a jig in front of his various Elektron groove boxes and Behringer synths" =]
Also if you get 1 million : Elektron must make the meme groovebox =D
That last comment was savage rofl! I feel while the Aturia plugin waves sound more like the real ms20 - The OG plugin filters from korg and parameters sound more like the actual MS20 - just a tad bit brighter like said. I friggen love my danm ms20.
Thank you!!! MS-20 FTW!!!
What the heck is this old digitakt “mark 1” is doing on the table - send it to his maker
I was struggling with some sync issues on the new one. They promised me to iron this out