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@Frikoppie Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I don't know modern lingo either, I only exist online through RUclips and my e-mail, I don't have any social media account whatsoever, I don't even have a smartphone (just a 30 euro touch-button phone) my p.c. is still the same since 2009 and AudioPilz just asked me to text him on Telegram, which I don't know what it is and I have no other means of communicating with him, except these comments and my e-mail. Talking about primitive circumstances of online (in)activity....
@@thejollyjoker187 Be careful. Had such a message as well. Some people just create an account with addresses that are similarities the original but have nothing to do with the channel. Happened to me before. Just a new type of internet scam.
I watch your videos 3 times. First all the way through, then meme frame stop by stop, Finally all the way through again. I laugh through all 3. Your brain is on another level. Love it.
Mine from 2009 (i7 920), connected to the internet, runs great, but i'm regularly taking care of it and maintaining it, ram upgrade, replacing dead gpu card, replacing the cpu to xeon 5675 and some new SSD. so its mostly the same case/mb/psu :) it's about 1/10 the power of the latest and greatest but good enough for me.
There is no reason why an old PC can’t run forever. Other than replacing a dying hard drive every 10 years or so. Vintage software synths and all. Hell with the updates.
People are still writing music on old Atari's and Commodores.... PC's don't generally just die, usually its the PSU or Hard Drive. But new drives are massive and reliable now and one can just clone their entire PC in case it were to ever fail.
Comment 2 - Full circle, VSTs became Instrument-Quality, new Gear fully digital Computers, VSTs became Pseudo-Analogue, Korg Berlin made a Real Life FL Studio Sakura
….I like the wood grain panel image of a synthesizer being displayed on my computer…..or how about oscillators that are programmed to heat up and drift on softsynths and randomly break! How’s that for potential realism in future versions on softsynths? The iOS Vogel CMI (soft fairlight) would over heat and burn up if you did not get the right power settings switched on correctly …..as a ‘joke’….forcing one to restart the app.
The complete original legacy collection was hard to use for me because the GUIs were too small and not scalable. I even got an additional screen and set it set to a low resolution in order to be able to actually see the synths.. Luckily their current offerings in the Korg collection come with scalable GUIs.
"They just add a raspberry pi and call it a synthesizer" Class! 😂 Not having space for hardware i love having the option to buy the more recent Korg Native offerings and the korg collection for their older gear is great. Can barely tell the difference between the hardware Triton Extreme and the software. Only wish i could use it as patch librarian and editor... just importing KSC files would be nice! Sound wise just missing the tube and MOSS board. What a time we live in for synth options!
Had the legacy collection and controller for years, paired with a microkorg. I played that in a space rock band for a few gigs and enjoyed it immensely. Had a tiny little laptop from the 00s and it ran super smoothly. Fun episode! HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE and thanks Mr Pilz!
Back when I used to make tunes in cakewalk 6 using AweBank98 and sound fonts using the soundcard’s cutoff filter and putting +20db gain on all samples because I hadn’t heard of distortion and overdrive.
I think people have a certain idea of what "analogue" sounds like, it's hard to say for sure the original is significantly less "analog". A lot of analog synths sounded very dirty and biting. This is an issue with guitar tube amps too - when models started to get "good" they often sounded overly smooth like they'd been fourier transformed for good measure. I remember having a Zoom G3 back in the day which was a step up in terms of realism, but you couldn't really get a "Crunchy" sound out of it without extensive EQ. I used the 2004 plugin in a track when producing for a virtual idol group because I was surprised at how lively it was, it had snappy envelopes instead of that kinda soft roll off associated with a lot of VSTs of that era.
I have a model like this, the iC version, and I use it with the iPad in the iMS-20 plugin and with Arturia's V Collection plugins, it's very responsive and sounds absurdly good, I just missed the LEDs marking the sync, but on the iPad the LEDs perfectly mark the synchronization
This video is so good! I didn't realize how good the 2004 version actually sounded! I also really appreciate the Pro-53 mini meme. When I was super noob and not knowing much, that was the first plugin where that clicked in my head "oh this sounds good. I'll use this one" .
I have spent literal weeks of my life midi mapping soft synths to midi controllers. Sometimes by writing config files by hand (Numark midi controller, and a korg DAW controller) which was no fun at all. I really don't know why I do it, because almost always, I use the same two knobs midi learned on the fly and record the automation, never to be touched again.😂😂😂
@@ThatSockmonkey Haha, I have actually wondered if you could get a controller with just 1 big knob that can control whatever virtual control you last clicked on. But have you ever come up with a reasonably universal, one solution to rule them all? I've been thinking a Novation Launchcontrol XL would be good because apart from being able to use it as an 8-channel mixer control surface, you could assign the controls to most of the main common synth parameters - 8 faders become ADSR controls for an amp and a filter/mod envelope, then you have 3x8 knobs, or 6 groups of 4, to assign to common parameters for OSC1, OSC2, LFO1, LFO2, filter and either filter 2 if a synth has it, or maybe just leave 4 spare for ad-hoc MIDI learn mapping of anything else you need. There's also 16 buttons to play with, maybe they could be set up to cycle through oscillator range, oscillator and LFO waveforms, LFO sync, filter type & slope, etc. Then you'd have a consistent layout you could memorise that would cover the main parameters of most of your soft synths for immediate hands-on use (once mapped, heh) that should minimise the need for any on-the-fly mapping.
There's some real gems from that time period of VSTs, I use synth1 all the time despite it being a fairly old free synth. Still works great on modern DAWs and has a really cool sound that I just love lol
I thought the original Virus TDM plugin for ProTools (circa 2002 or so) sounded fantastic. But there's also now a plugin that reliably emulates the Motorola DSP56300 engine used in the Virus and several other virtual analog synths from the 90's.
The arturia sounds so good I been waiting on a sale to get it.. stands up against the behringer k2 I had.. the korg software sounds bad rattly and buzzy imo
Another example of why you are the best RUclips synth reviewer bar none. Period. (I still have the "original" Korg MS-20 plug in on my "vintage" 2003 PC running Win XP. But I also have an original hardware MS-20 that abruptly "died" a few years ago. Does anyone know if it might just be as simple as replacing the battery?) Anyway, my favorite Austrian just keeps getting better.
I got the Cherry Audio PS-20, though, after getting a Behringer K-2 and Korg MS-20 mini, I kinda see it as its own thing with the addition of a suboscillator and whatnot. Having got Korg's microKORG vst, I did demo their MS-20 and also have Arturia Analog Lab, but haven't got the full version of either as I have both hardware and the PS-20. Not sure how accurate it is, but I've been messing around with Cherry Audio's PS-3300 more than the PS-20 nowadays.
This is interesting to me because I got the Korg software version a couple of years ago and always felt the sound was, to my ears, a tad flat. That would have just been down to unreasonable expectations, but I haven't really used it. I was tempted to get the Arturia version when it came out but have held back so far.
I have the Korg Legacy Collection and MS20ic controller. How easy/difficult is it to get the ic working with other ms20 plugins, like the Arturia' sMS20 in theV collection? Mapping the knobs seems like one thing, but is there a way to make the patch points work? sorry if this is a noob questions (i'm not a noob, just lazy and kinda stupid when it comes to midimapping) Mapping the knobs seems like one thing, but is there a way to make the patch points work? sorry if this is a noob questions (i'm not a noob, just lazy and kinda stupid when it comes to midimapping)
0:25 I remember people debating if Madonna had used ReBirth RB-338 on her Ray of Light album back in 1999. I don't think she did, but RB-338 sounded really good back then.
I still have one of those controllers sitting over my record shelf. When I got an MS-20 kit, I kind of stopped using the software. I haven't used it or the controller in years and couldn't even give it away for a long time. So it became furniture. I suppose I should try to see if I can get the old computer to fire up again.
Man i would have loved to see if the iPad app sounds any different. It was literally the first app i ever bought. I have a filthy ipad 2 with an Akai Synthstation lying around, it had a very interesting sound due to the old-ish dac and maybe the 30-pin connector (?)...i might boot it up again just because this awesome video!
@JustDoIt-xq9pi They should mostly sound the same, especially today. It would be uneconomical to recode the dsp algos etc. Back then though, the iPads had a lot less CPU power compared to the PCs at the time, which has since obviously changed. The iPad 2 had a 30-pin connector, an integrated DAC, combined with the Akai Synthstation sounded quite fat! I think i will boot that old setup up again...
I have all the Arturia, G Force and Cherry Audio vsts. They work just as good as the real thing. And throwing some saturation on some of the tracks take them to the next level.
running "a demo" Holy crap, I do like the 2004 plugin more. Arturia's does sound closer to what I remember my mini sounding like (rip), but I actually really dig how the 2004 sounded in the last jam especially- by just a smidgen. Kinda curious how I'd feel about Cherry Audio's plugin in the same context. Which once again tells me literally nobody but the person making the music will care what the hell hard/software any of us use as long as we use it decently, lol
this reminds me that I once did a test with DX-7 emulations. I imported the same DX-7 sysex file to Arturia DX V, Native Instruments' FM8, and Digital Suburban's Dexed plugin. There was no parity between them. Sonically, they all output different envelopes, etc. I imagine with a LOT of tweaking, someone could get them to get in line, but you might EXPECT that using the same sysex starting point (and not the on-screen values for each knob or slider) they would at least be close. Nope.
I think you found the elusive "Arturia-Veil" - It's that lack of "sparkle" that is sadly missing in most, if not all, of their plugins.....an no, tweaking the cutoff wont help.
I picked up a brand new K2 a couple years ago and think it wins this sound competition hands down, but that's just me, and who can trust my ears that say the BR110 Clap is the best in the business.
I'll die before I give up my Pro-53. Also my Waldorf Attack and Microtonic still get used in most tracks and they're clocking in at 20 years now I think. They're quick to load, and have a responsive GUI and sound great. One of the things you didn't mention that also is a big drawback IMHO with the Arturia synths is how frickn slow they are to load. The focus on a massive, slick gui has lead them to developing bloatware. Yeah the sound is great but what's the point if it takes 3-4 times as long to load when you're in the zone?
@@AudioPilz I remember reading in CM magazine a guy making midi keyboards lookalikes of the OSCar synth and there was another one as well, I haven’t been able to find that since, even on google or YT.
This comment is better than others because it was written with a real IBM Model M Keyboard. My letters are analog, warm, and full of vintage vibes with high fidelity.
I commend you Florian for branching out with these episodes, blind guess tests, ranking past gear….instead of reviewing another Digitakt groovebox/synth wanna be or Roland TrTb or not 2Be.
I will admit that, though I’ve long resisted plug-ins because they sit in a sequencer and I have long resisted sequencing my parts, I was tempted by Korg Legacy, especially after the MS-2000 and original microKorg hit the market. It didn’t hurt that George Duke endorsed it. I liked the idea of having all those virtual engines at arm’s length, and that MS-20 controller also appealed to me. Then, I suppose the envelope generator on my interest had a rapid decay and release time with zero sustain. One thing I just wondered is if the MS-20 Mini that succeeded the Legacy bundle was fitted with system exclusive interfacing for that software.
There are indeed some old 32bit plugins i've become attached to... FL Studio Wasp comes to mind immediately as it is 32bit only, and sadly not possible to bridge FL-native plugins to it's 64bit DAW only (after version 20.8.4) (no it is not an exact E.D.P. Wasp clone, it is more its own little thing)
Imo Korg pulled some black magic with their analog emulation plugins. Much more impressed with their software than recent hardware outings. I recently made a track that only used the ims20 iPad version and an sp404, and I swear it sounds more "analog" than a lot of tracks I've made with actual analog gear. I dunno maybe it's because I haven't really played a real MS20, but I was super impressed with the sound. Big shout out to the Korg iOdyssey as well. Ironically less impressed by the iM1, which is all digital! Like that should be one to one, but I feel like I gotta drown the iM1 in effects and bit reduction to make it sound the way I want.
@@AudioPilz that's so interesting you say that! That's exactly what it seems like! That must be why I keep coming back to them when I need something specific mid way through a track.
I feel like a lot of plug-ins are being made with crap quality because the manufacturers know they can get away with it due to the inability of the common consumer to notice enough difference between good and bad quality. That and also they are scaling back on the quality to make the imprint of the plugin smaller and more efficient for CPU usage. It's not a good tradeoff. Going back to hardware as much as possible! Maybe even dawless until it's time to master!
I got the original MS-20 Legacy with the IC controller new back in the day. I would like to dedicate a moment of thought and appreciation to the fact that Korg, in 2020 still supported 15 year old software and updated the GUI to be scalable for modern screens.
I've recently wondered if you can truly replace some of the best synths, effects and processors in the world with a bunch of VSTs. I recently bought Phase Plant, and while to my crap ears it sounds amazing, I've no idea how it can stack up to a classic master synth such as a Moog Modular or something else crazy revered. More tests please!
They all sound great! Also the final meme is perfect because I'm waiting for the WaveState module to come back into stock right now. I think it could almost replace (they're not going anywhere) my 30yo JD/JV rack-stack for general programming and fun! Have you ripped them a Bad Gear-hole yet?? -- I'll have to check. Keep it up Florian, I like this comparison video. Should the Integra be skewered in the same vein? Maybe...
Eyy, the PS-20! I don't have any space or budget for real hardware, so bless the vst synths. I also appreciate the reasonable pricing of Cherry Audio's stuff.
Oh, man, I don't blame you! That era/ line of E-mu samplers seem awesome! [Well, and others, too, ofc, but for different reasons/ uses. EII, Emax, etc.] And hey, you could sample patches made on plugins into that E5000, keeping things hardware based 👍
I really love all of the incredible independent developers and small teams making vst software these days. Aberrant DSP has been a favorite the past few years for making crunchy lofi stuff. Larger companies will always have the ability to make larger scale products like Arturia’s Analog Lab but these larger software packages are also often a pain in the ass when it comes to licensing, requiring additional applications to run constantly to check the licenses, and hard to move between multiple workstations.
honestly i think so, my main workflow is basically pulling up 100 instances of serum and UAD PolyMax (underrated btw) and going ham, sprinkled in with some other usual suspects like pigments and phase plant. Even my ob6 was replaced with OBxd because they were too similar But theres something about fondling some real knobs that makes me feel like a real musician :( I remember the sad day i let go of my beloved waldorf quantum because it was too similar to pigments, truly is what it is also 30 minutes ago is wild bazoinga
Hi! I was surprized that it's so short! You could dig into RePro synths (maybe some your personal investigation) and Moog VST emulations (we could know - did Boog beat em all or not). Will you make a Bad Gear about Analog Four? I think that this machine can be very interesting to review in this manner. I doubt that we get any firmware update for A4 soon...
I had the Korg legacy, and regret selling it. it sounded killer and the patching worked better than the real thing (on my Behringer clone). the thing I didn't like whas that you could not put audio through it. but looking back I should have kept it.
I remember when Arturia released the DX7 V. I didn't see a good reason to use it instead of Dexed since one DX7 V consumes the same CPU as 20 Dexeds. It's kind of the same for Jun6 V and Tal-Uno. Anyway, I'm silly enough to always keep buying the Arturia stuff, even if I'm not a musician, and keep using the same old VSTs (Diva, Keyscape, Battery...).
GAS wants me to buy a Synclavier Regen, so I decided to buy Synclavier V in an effort satisfy the desire. Now I have Synclavier V, and I know Regen is a plug-in inside a hardware controller, but I am still plagued by urge to spend piles of $$$ to buy Regen. Help.
2:09 «If it ain't broke, don't fix it.» That should be an universal rule in tech companies. YES. I'm staring at you, microshaf-- sorry, I mean Microsoft. I'm sick of programmed obsolescence!
When I saw the Korg legacy collection advertised in keyboard magazine I had to have it. I hade a lot of patches with it and I love using the controller. Even thought its not analogue I feel its better that having a hardware MS20 because you can made the sounds polyphonic.
❤❤ The day my MS20ic died (many years ago) was the day I stopped using the MS20 plugin... It's a shame since the hardware really made it *fun* to program patches instead of poking around on a screen. I keep being told I should bite the bullet and get Uli's version but... Hmm. Would be interested to see how the plugin/controller stacks up against the MS20 mini, noise issues aside..!
well with allt those clean tones they sound similar but hose analog synth's had most of the time analoge processing and a certain mojo in the sweet spots wich sound very different from the digital versions. i had a bunch of m20's with the same filters and they all sound a bit different also depending on the conditions. however what makes too those analoge machines so charming beside the hands on fact is the tones when punishing the circuit. aliasing even with oversampling dont have the same sonic qualtiy... when the first or even second harmonic kicks in its over with digital just saying :)
VST:s have come a long way since they first appeared. I wasn’t that impressed back then. One of my friends was an early adopter and raved about them being the future. I thought that they sounded cold and lifeless compared to my old analog machines. But nowadays I see a lot of them as just as good as the machines they try to copy. TAL software, D16 Group and Softtube are developers that comes to mind beside the standard ones.
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No such thing as gas with soft synths.
@Frikoppie Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I don't know modern lingo either, I only exist online through RUclips and my e-mail, I don't have any social media account whatsoever, I don't even have a smartphone (just a 30 euro touch-button phone) my p.c. is still the same since 2009 and AudioPilz just asked me to text him on Telegram, which I don't know what it is and I have no other means of communicating with him, except these comments and my e-mail. Talking about primitive circumstances of online (in)activity....
@@thejollyjoker187 Be careful. Had such a message as well. Some people just create an account with addresses that are similarities the original but have nothing to do with the channel. Happened to me before. Just a new type of internet scam.
@@marcbrasse747 Thanks. I should imagine so.. Not knowing what Telegram is kind of saved me, haha..
You are the greatest synth / gear reviewer in all of synthood. Bless you 🔥🙏🏾🔥
Thank you so much for the support!!! Much appreciated!!!
Because he donated $19.99 to the channel as a superchat@Frikoppie
@Frikoppie lol I donated to the channel 💰❤️
Clearly the sweet spot between vintage hardware and modern softsynths would be vintage softsynths. 😆
That was the idea behind all this;)
There are some FB groups about that.
yeah the vintage ones just sounds warmer fatter and deeper... more 3d... 😏😏
@@asor8037 wintage
I watch your videos 3 times. First all the way through, then meme frame stop by stop, Finally all the way through again. I laugh through all 3. Your brain is on another level. Love it.
Thank you so much!!!
Tho😅 5:03 😅hl 5:06
What I have learnt:
Dirty water filters? - Bad 😞
Dirty synth filters? - Good 😁
#science
“Learned”
You can add that to your list too 😂😂
I keeeed I keeeeed
@@tattooguy413 Sorry, I don't speak or spell American. Only proper English 😁
@@lairdkilbarchan😂😂😂
@@tattooguy413PWNED!
Netflix needs to sign this show asap. We need this to be shown in any music school and every studio.
Bad Gear is a culture white stone at this point.
Thank you so much!!!❤️❤️❤️
Netflix will just buy the Behringer Bad Gear clone.
I have a pc from 2005 that I never hooked up to the internet ever. Runs all my old programs and daws perfectly fine.
Nice!!!
Same here, only from 2009.
Never change a running system.
Sounds like a WareZ PC!!
Mine from 2009 (i7 920), connected to the internet, runs great, but i'm regularly taking care of it and maintaining it, ram upgrade, replacing dead gpu card, replacing the cpu to xeon 5675 and some new SSD. so its mostly the same case/mb/psu :)
it's about 1/10 the power of the latest and greatest but good enough for me.
There is no reason why an old PC can’t run forever. Other than replacing a dying hard drive every 10 years or so. Vintage software synths and all. Hell with the updates.
Like a big fat old workstation synth!!!
People are still writing music on old Atari's and Commodores.... PC's don't generally just die, usually its the PSU or Hard Drive. But new drives are massive and reliable now and one can just clone their entire PC in case it were to ever fail.
Slap an SSD in there for
Dankpods did a video on how his 2006 mac is better than a modern iPad lol.
@@AudioPilz AKA Fairlight CMI LOL:)
Comment 2 - Full circle, VSTs became Instrument-Quality, new Gear fully digital Computers, VSTs became Pseudo-Analogue, Korg Berlin made a Real Life FL Studio Sakura
Welcome to the future!!!
I don't understand your last part ? FL studio Sakura ?! What day mean?
@@bankruptinberlin FL Studio is a DAW, Sakura is a pseudo-analogue plugin
Search in RUclips
Nice! ...good to see the Software Synth bros taking a turn on the BadGear roller coaster ride
Always a pleasure;)
great video, now let's buy more synthesizers
Hell yeah!!!
….I like the wood grain panel image of a synthesizer being displayed on my computer…..or how about oscillators that are programmed to heat up and drift on softsynths and randomly break! How’s that for potential realism in future versions on softsynths?
The iOS Vogel CMI (soft fairlight) would over heat and burn up if you did not get the right power settings switched on correctly …..as a ‘joke’….forcing one to restart the app.
As far as virtual instruments go, nothing has ever replaced the absolute joy I got from first playing on Rebirth. So much fun
Yep. thats it for me too.
The Classic!!!
Suggestion: Retro music software comparisons should be published on YT up to a max of 240p video quality.
I thought about messing with every bit of footage containing the old plugin but it would have made the comparison a little too hard...
Record the video on an old VCR from the 80's.
The complete original legacy collection was hard to use for me because the GUIs were too small and not scalable. I even got an additional screen and set it set to a low resolution in order to be able to actually see the synths..
Luckily their current offerings in the Korg collection come with scalable GUIs.
Yeah, ancient screens really help here;)
"They just add a raspberry pi and call it a synthesizer" Class! 😂
Not having space for hardware i love having the option to buy the more recent Korg Native offerings and the korg collection for their older gear is great. Can barely tell the difference between the hardware Triton Extreme and the software. Only wish i could use it as patch librarian and editor... just importing KSC files would be nice!
Sound wise just missing the tube and MOSS board.
What a time we live in for synth options!
Thanks!!!😀😀😀
You can set the prophecy plug-in to polyphonic to get into moss territory
Had the legacy collection and controller for years, paired with a microkorg. I played that in a space rock band for a few gigs and enjoyed it immensely. Had a tiny little laptop from the 00s and it ran super smoothly. Fun episode! HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE and thanks Mr Pilz!
Thanks!!! Nice zero years setup!!!
Back when I used to make tunes in cakewalk 6 using AweBank98 and sound fonts using the soundcard’s cutoff filter and putting +20db gain on all samples because I hadn’t heard of distortion and overdrive.
Nice technique!!!;)
I think people have a certain idea of what "analogue" sounds like, it's hard to say for sure the original is significantly less "analog". A lot of analog synths sounded very dirty and biting. This is an issue with guitar tube amps too - when models started to get "good" they often sounded overly smooth like they'd been fourier transformed for good measure. I remember having a Zoom G3 back in the day which was a step up in terms of realism, but you couldn't really get a "Crunchy" sound out of it without extensive EQ.
I used the 2004 plugin in a track when producing for a virtual idol group because I was surprised at how lively it was, it had snappy envelopes instead of that kinda soft roll off associated with a lot of VSTs of that era.
The envelopes are really snappy indeed
That low kick to Korg at the very end 👌nohice
😀
Oh god, back to stuff I own 😬
Nothing personal;)
How is it that Arturia synth sounds always sound flatter than a pancake?
Shots fired;)
That was certain a huge amount of preparation for producing this video just for our entertainment. Thank you Florian!
Thank you so much!!!
I have a model like this, the iC version, and I use it with the iPad in the iMS-20 plugin and with Arturia's V Collection plugins, it's very responsive and sounds absurdly good, I just missed the LEDs marking the sync, but on the iPad the LEDs perfectly mark the synchronization
Nice!!!
This video is so good! I didn't realize how good the 2004 version actually sounded! I also really appreciate the Pro-53 mini meme. When I was super noob and not knowing much, that was the first plugin where that clicked in my head "oh this sounds good. I'll use this one" .
Thank you!!!
All my plugins feels like clicking my mouse... which i am
Makes sense to me;)
I have spent literal weeks of my life midi mapping soft synths to midi controllers. Sometimes by writing config files by hand (Numark midi controller, and a korg DAW controller) which was no fun at all.
I really don't know why I do it, because almost always, I use the same two knobs midi learned on the fly and record the automation, never to be touched again.😂😂😂
@@ThatSockmonkey Haha, I have actually wondered if you could get a controller with just 1 big knob that can control whatever virtual control you last clicked on.
But have you ever come up with a reasonably universal, one solution to rule them all? I've been thinking a Novation Launchcontrol XL would be good because apart from being able to use it as an 8-channel mixer control surface, you could assign the controls to most of the main common synth parameters - 8 faders become ADSR controls for an amp and a filter/mod envelope, then you have 3x8 knobs, or 6 groups of 4, to assign to common parameters for OSC1, OSC2, LFO1, LFO2, filter and either filter 2 if a synth has it, or maybe just leave 4 spare for ad-hoc MIDI learn mapping of anything else you need. There's also 16 buttons to play with, maybe they could be set up to cycle through oscillator range, oscillator and LFO waveforms, LFO sync, filter type & slope, etc. Then you'd have a consistent layout you could memorise that would cover the main parameters of most of your soft synths for immediate hands-on use (once mapped, heh) that should minimise the need for any on-the-fly mapping.
@@rhythmace1 that's actually a brilliant idea!
@@rhythmace1 short answer, no. Never. Always the top three knobs on my bsp
6:23 wow I completely forgot about Arturia Origin. That will be one hell of a Bad Gear episode.
I want one so badly!!!
There's some real gems from that time period of VSTs, I use synth1 all the time despite it being a fairly old free synth. Still works great on modern DAWs and has a really cool sound that I just love lol
Ah, Synth1 is so great!!!
Loving how this channel is branching out, another great video Florian! 🤘
Thank you so much!!!
The Korg Legacy Collection was pure evil and I LOVED that controller. Ugh! So great
Agreed!!!
I thought it was a joke and that was a real ms-20... What are the jacks then for?
I thought the original Virus TDM plugin for ProTools (circa 2002 or so) sounded fantastic. But there's also now a plugin that reliably emulates the Motorola DSP56300 engine used in the Virus and several other virtual analog synths from the 90's.
That plug is so mind boggling!!!
And yes, the Arturia version is its own beast. Glad I’m not crazy 😢
Absolutely!!!
4:35 what movie is that?!
Twilight;)
Thanks Mememaster! 😘
The arturia sounds so good I been waiting on a sale to get it.. stands up against the behringer k2 I had.. the korg software sounds bad rattly and buzzy imo
👍👍👍
This Baby MS-20 is my Controler Centerpiece in my Studio for many years. And yes, the Wavestation Plugin sounds great!
I wanted one for 20 years;)
I loved it until it stopped working for no reason after a while lol
The ms10 is cutest looking synth
Brutally cute;)
from now on I'm calling Friday "Florian"
❤️❤️❤️Have a nice weekend!!!
"Ma, it's Friday, I gots to take mah Pilz"
Another example of why you are the best RUclips synth reviewer bar none. Period. (I still have the "original" Korg MS-20 plug in on my "vintage" 2003 PC running Win XP. But I also have an original hardware MS-20 that abruptly "died" a few years ago. Does anyone know if it might just be as simple as replacing the battery?) Anyway, my favorite Austrian just keeps getting better.
Thank you so much!!!
I got the Cherry Audio PS-20, though, after getting a Behringer K-2 and Korg MS-20 mini, I kinda see it as its own thing with the addition of a suboscillator and whatnot.
Having got Korg's microKORG vst, I did demo their MS-20 and also have Arturia Analog Lab, but haven't got the full version of either as I have both hardware and the PS-20.
Not sure how accurate it is, but I've been messing around with Cherry Audio's PS-3300 more than the PS-20 nowadays.
I really have to give that one a try!
no joke i still use FM7 and KORG Legacy VST's from the 'Windows XP' era and they sound AMAZING.
Agreed!!!
This is interesting to me because I got the Korg software version a couple of years ago and always felt the sound was, to my ears, a tad flat. That would have just been down to unreasonable expectations, but I haven't really used it. I was tempted to get the Arturia version when it came out but have held back so far.
I actually liked the Arturia
I have the Korg Legacy Collection and MS20ic controller. How easy/difficult is it to get the ic working with other ms20 plugins, like the Arturia' sMS20 in theV collection? Mapping the knobs seems like one thing, but is there a way to make the patch points work? sorry if this is a noob questions (i'm not a noob, just lazy and kinda stupid when it comes to midimapping) Mapping the knobs seems like one thing, but is there a way to make the patch points work? sorry if this is a noob questions (i'm not a noob, just lazy and kinda stupid when it comes to midimapping)
ok i tried the IC with the Arturia plug-in. Very disappointing, only noticed the filter cutoff responding to knob movements. sigh.
Yeah, works great with the Arturia
@@AudioPilz did you have to manually set up midi mappings?
@@AudioPilz no for me. what have i done wrong? only some parameters were mapped!
Have u done a Bad Gear on the MS2000?
Oh NVM u did. I found it 🤗🎹
;) Yesssss
0:25 I remember people debating if Madonna had used ReBirth RB-338 on her Ray of Light album back in 1999. I don't think she did, but RB-338 sounded really good back then.
ReBirth FTW!!!
I still have one of those controllers sitting over my record shelf. When I got an MS-20 kit, I kind of stopped using the software. I haven't used it or the controller in years and couldn't even give it away for a long time. So it became furniture. I suppose I should try to see if I can get the old computer to fire up again.
Nice!!!
KLC MS-20 + MS20ic was a ton of fun. Still running fine on W10, but with the "new gen" Legacy Collection.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks!!! Nice!!!
@@AudioPilz That epic slap on the back of Korg's head at the end.😆
Mysteriously my Ableton Live 5 on XP not internet judt stopped saving. No more license. Ditto FM7/8
Weird stuff!!!
Man i would have loved to see if the iPad app sounds any different. It was literally the first app i ever bought. I have a filthy ipad 2 with an Akai Synthstation lying around, it had a very interesting sound due to the old-ish dac and maybe the 30-pin connector (?)...i might boot it up again just because this awesome video!
@JustDoIt-xq9pi They should mostly sound the same, especially today. It would be uneconomical to recode the dsp algos etc. Back then though, the iPads had a lot less CPU power compared to the PCs at the time, which has since obviously changed. The iPad 2 had a 30-pin connector, an integrated DAC, combined with the Akai Synthstation sounded quite fat! I think i will boot that old setup up again...
Thanks!!! It most probably sounds exactly like the desktop version
the age of vintage plug-ins on always offline windows 95 computers is upon us!
❤️❤️❤️
God help us all!
Windows 93 if you're a hardcore hipster.
I have all the Arturia, G Force and Cherry Audio vsts. They work just as good as the real thing. And throwing some saturation on some of the tracks take them to the next level.
👍👍👍
running "a demo"
Holy crap, I do like the 2004 plugin more. Arturia's does sound closer to what I remember my mini sounding like (rip), but I actually really dig how the 2004 sounded in the last jam especially- by just a smidgen. Kinda curious how I'd feel about Cherry Audio's plugin in the same context.
Which once again tells me literally nobody but the person making the music will care what the hell hard/software any of us use as long as we use it decently, lol
I feel the exact same way
My brain is very simple. I see a bald man with a piece of audio gear and I click. It's wild to see how far we've come! Great video! :D
Thank you so much!!!
@@AudioPilz Pavlovian synthesis
I offer both of those criteria on my channel. (End of shameless plug. 😉)
@4:09 ok so it didnt work but this actually still sounds great?. slow arp on this and gradually open it up?
Yes, lucky accidents for days!!!
this reminds me that I once did a test with DX-7 emulations.
I imported the same DX-7 sysex file to Arturia DX V, Native Instruments' FM8, and Digital Suburban's Dexed plugin.
There was no parity between them. Sonically, they all output different envelopes, etc.
I imagine with a LOT of tweaking, someone could get them to get in line, but you might EXPECT that using the same sysex starting point (and not the on-screen values for each knob or slider) they would at least be close. Nope.
Close but no cigar...
I think you found the elusive "Arturia-Veil" - It's that lack of "sparkle" that is sadly missing in most, if not all, of their plugins.....an no, tweaking the cutoff wont help.
Yeah, it's mysterious
I picked up a brand new K2 a couple years ago and think it wins this sound competition hands down, but that's just me, and who can trust my ears that say the BR110 Clap is the best in the business.
Ah, the ULI-20 ;)
iPad with AUv3 is good too , iaa/Audio bus mess become classic.
👍👍👍
I'll die before I give up my Pro-53. Also my Waldorf Attack and Microtonic still get used in most tracks and they're clocking in at 20 years now I think. They're quick to load, and have a responsive GUI and sound great. One of the things you didn't mention that also is a big drawback IMHO with the Arturia synths is how frickn slow they are to load. The focus on a massive, slick gui has lead them to developing bloatware. Yeah the sound is great but what's the point if it takes 3-4 times as long to load when you're in the zone?
Pro-53 is awesome!!!
Arturia should implement the patch cables feature on their plugin to allow for using the korg controller fully.
I think that's patchable
@@AudioPilz you mean the plugin "gets" when you physically patch on the controller? 🤔
Korg’s ms-20 IC controller was a blast, a bit sad I sold mine, thinking it was fine just using the software in my tracker.
Agreed! Wanted one for 20 years!!!
@@AudioPilz I remember reading in CM magazine a guy making midi keyboards lookalikes of the OSCar synth and there was another one as well, I haven’t been able to find that since, even on google or YT.
This comment is better than others because it was written with a real IBM Model M Keyboard. My letters are analog, warm, and full of vintage vibes with high fidelity.
It's science
i really liked the editing in this
Thank you!!!
I commend you Florian for branching out with these episodes, blind guess tests, ranking past gear….instead of reviewing another Digitakt groovebox/synth wanna be or Roland TrTb or not 2Be.
Will do, thanks!!!
I will admit that, though I’ve long resisted plug-ins because they sit in a sequencer and I have long resisted sequencing my parts, I was tempted by Korg Legacy, especially after the MS-2000 and original microKorg hit the market. It didn’t hurt that George Duke endorsed it. I liked the idea of having all those virtual engines at arm’s length, and that MS-20 controller also appealed to me. Then, I suppose the envelope generator on my interest had a rapid decay and release time with zero sustain.
One thing I just wondered is if the MS-20 Mini that succeeded the Legacy bundle was fitted with system exclusive interfacing for that software.
@-TE-LE-GRAM-TheAudioPilz - SWITCH OFF!
Sorry for the bots, it's a whack-a-mole...
Nothing human made is immune to the underside of what we are, @@AudioPilz.
There are indeed some old 32bit plugins i've become attached to... FL Studio Wasp comes to mind immediately as it is 32bit only, and sadly not possible to bridge FL-native plugins to it's 64bit DAW only (after version 20.8.4)
(no it is not an exact E.D.P. Wasp clone, it is more its own little thing)
Wow, this is science! Nice comparison.
Thank you so much!!!
Imo Korg pulled some black magic with their analog emulation plugins. Much more impressed with their software than recent hardware outings. I recently made a track that only used the ims20 iPad version and an sp404, and I swear it sounds more "analog" than a lot of tracks I've made with actual analog gear. I dunno maybe it's because I haven't really played a real MS20, but I was super impressed with the sound. Big shout out to the Korg iOdyssey as well. Ironically less impressed by the iM1, which is all digital! Like that should be one to one, but I feel like I gotta drown the iM1 in effects and bit reduction to make it sound the way I want.
Old Korg emulations seem to be created to just "work" in a mix
@@AudioPilz that's so interesting you say that! That's exactly what it seems like! That must be why I keep coming back to them when I need something specific mid way through a track.
...aaaand the vintage plugin sounds warmer than the new ones. Just great.
;)
And now I'm running away... "I'm just kidding!!! I doubt they changed much if anything"🤣
i think the new one is warmer, but the old one is more articulate/filthy
I feel like a lot of plug-ins are being made with crap quality because the manufacturers know they can get away with it due to the inability of the common consumer to notice enough difference between good and bad quality. That and also they are scaling back on the quality to make the imprint of the plugin smaller and more efficient for CPU usage. It's not a good tradeoff. Going back to hardware as much as possible! Maybe even dawless until it's time to master!
Lol, shots fired;)
@@AudioPilz hahaha I didn't mean to but I guess I kinda did. I mentioned no names though 🤣 🤫 🤣 great video brother
I got the original MS-20 Legacy with the IC controller new back in the day. I would like to dedicate a moment of thought and appreciation to the fact that Korg, in 2020 still supported 15 year old software and updated the GUI to be scalable for modern screens.
Yeah, big ups to korg
I've recently wondered if you can truly replace some of the best synths, effects and processors in the world with a bunch of VSTs. I recently bought Phase Plant, and while to my crap ears it sounds amazing, I've no idea how it can stack up to a classic master synth such as a Moog Modular or something else crazy revered. More tests please!
Phase plant is quite powerful!!!
I came to Vienna this week, so made the essential pilgrimage to Klangfarbe- a lot of gear ticking all the boxes there!
Nice!!!
3:13 - they are all exact same :D
They all sound great! Also the final meme is perfect because I'm waiting for the WaveState module to come back into stock right now. I think it could almost replace (they're not going anywhere) my 30yo JD/JV rack-stack for general programming and fun! Have you ripped them a Bad Gear-hole yet?? -- I'll have to check. Keep it up Florian, I like this comparison video. Should the Integra be skewered in the same vein? Maybe...
Great suggestions, thank you!!! Already did the 1080
Eyy, the PS-20! I don't have any space or budget for real hardware, so bless the vst synths. I also appreciate the reasonable pricing of Cherry Audio's stuff.
Great company!!!
Plugins? < My GAS telling me I need an EMU E5000 Ultra
Word!!!
We need a proper Emu Emulator X reboot that sounds better
Oh, man, I don't blame you! That era/ line of E-mu samplers seem awesome!
[Well, and others, too, ofc, but for different reasons/ uses. EII, Emax, etc.]
And hey, you could sample patches made on plugins into that E5000, keeping things hardware based 👍
@@slipknotboy555 Emu E4s are amazing. I use them often on my channel.
I really love all of the incredible independent developers and small teams making vst software these days. Aberrant DSP has been a favorite the past few years for making crunchy lofi stuff.
Larger companies will always have the ability to make larger scale products like Arturia’s Analog Lab but these larger software packages are also often a pain in the ass when it comes to licensing, requiring additional applications to run constantly to check the licenses, and hard to move between multiple workstations.
Agreed!!!
The "Old Free VSTi Gems From The Past" thread on KVR is at 924 pages now...
honestly i think so, my main workflow is basically pulling up 100 instances of serum and UAD PolyMax (underrated btw) and going ham, sprinkled in with some other usual suspects like pigments and phase plant. Even my ob6 was replaced with OBxd because they were too similar
But theres something about fondling some real knobs that makes me feel like a real musician :( I remember the sad day i let go of my beloved waldorf quantum because it was too similar to pigments, truly is what it is
also 30 minutes ago is wild bazoinga
Great workflow!!!
Hi! I was surprized that it's so short! You could dig into RePro synths (maybe some your personal investigation) and Moog VST emulations (we could know - did Boog beat em all or not).
Will you make a Bad Gear about Analog Four? I think that this machine can be very interesting to review in this manner. I doubt that we get any firmware update for A4 soon...
Doing dual sound design is really time consuming so I stuck to one synth concept
Hey, how about a video about the AKAI MPC ONE Plus?
Already had the non-Plus on the show
@@AudioPilz we haven't had the novation curcuit mono station! Or korg super percussion? I would also like to see the Suzuki Omnichord CM-108?
I had the Korg legacy, and regret selling it. it sounded killer and the patching worked better than the real thing (on my Behringer clone). the thing I didn't like whas that you could not put audio through it. but looking back I should have kept it.
I feel you
I remember when Arturia released the DX7 V. I didn't see a good reason to use it instead of Dexed since one DX7 V consumes the same CPU as 20 Dexeds. It's kind of the same for Jun6 V and Tal-Uno. Anyway, I'm silly enough to always keep buying the Arturia stuff, even if I'm not a musician, and keep using the same old VSTs (Diva, Keyscape, Battery...).
It's hard to keep up with dexed
The patchbay stopped working on my controller
I feel you!!!
GAS wants me to buy a Synclavier Regen, so I decided to buy Synclavier V in an effort satisfy the desire. Now I have Synclavier V, and I know Regen is a plug-in inside a hardware controller, but I am still plagued by urge to spend piles of $$$ to buy Regen. Help.
I really have to give that one a try!
great video, i like such comparise tests ! good job !
Thank you!!!
2:09 «If it ain't broke, don't fix it.»
That should be an universal rule in tech companies.
YES. I'm staring at you, microshaf-- sorry, I mean Microsoft.
I'm sick of programmed obsolescence!
If it ain't broke - make more money off it
I like the Mr. Oiza Flatbeat / Flat Eric hot dog cigar :) My kids love that Flat Beat video too.
Check out Alex Ball’s great video about it!
no matter how good plugins get, i still like having a synth or two
Maybe more than one or two;)
also have an offline xp 32 bit system with dsp's in it. Haven't heard anything surpass it yet
When I saw the Korg legacy collection advertised in keyboard magazine I had to have it. I hade a lot of patches with it and I love using the controller. Even thought its not analogue I feel its better that having a hardware MS20 because you can made the sounds polyphonic.
Same here!!!
Interesting that my 1978 MS-20 was duller than the plugins. Perhaps when it's been recapped we coukd try it again. 😂
I wouldn’t say that this is a downside;)
OMG, my antivirus sounded the alarm when it recognized a Windos XP in the video. Sausage == Everything Everywhere All at Once 😛
😂😂😂
This is cool. Nice one!
Thanks!!!
meowsynth mentioned !!
Classic!
❤❤ The day my MS20ic died (many years ago) was the day I stopped using the MS20 plugin... It's a shame since the hardware really made it *fun* to program patches instead of poking around on a screen. I keep being told I should bite the bullet and get Uli's version but... Hmm.
Would be interested to see how the plugin/controller stacks up against the MS20 mini, noise issues aside..!
Such a great controller!
well with allt those clean tones they sound similar but hose analog synth's had most of the time analoge processing and a certain mojo in the sweet spots wich sound very different from the digital versions. i had a bunch of m20's with the same filters and they all sound a bit different also depending on the conditions. however what makes too those analoge machines so charming beside the hands on fact is the tones when punishing the circuit. aliasing even with oversampling dont have the same sonic qualtiy... when the first or even second harmonic kicks in its over with digital just saying :)
Thanks for the heads up!!!
Wonderful. As usual.
Thank you so much!!!
Happy Friday Florian! Still waiting for the Planet Phatt
Have a nice weekend!!! Still trying to find an excuse for that one
VST:s have come a long way since they first appeared. I wasn’t that impressed back then. One of my friends was an early adopter and raved about them being the future. I thought that they sounded cold and lifeless compared to my old analog machines. But nowadays I see a lot of them as just as good as the machines they try to copy. TAL software, D16 Group and Softtube are developers that comes to mind beside the standard ones.
Love TAL stuff!!!
4:15 omg I was making the exact same face as I heard the second demo... hahahaha
ooooffff that shot fired at the end... rip Korg!
I feel you;)
Should we start discussing about vintage vst's? are we there yet?
Somebody gotta start this;)