Real life Pentax K-3 Mark III vs K-3. Continuous Autofocus tracking difference.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- #K3III #K3MarkIII #K3Mark3 #K33 #PentaxK3MarkIIIAutoFocus #PentaxAutoFocus
Every company has done it "We've improved xyz". "We've made improvements to abc". "Our new product has better jkl..." etc etc.
In Photography, it's usually the Autofocus that gets mentioned. "We've improved AF speed, better tracking, smile, tooth, face, stitch, spacetime dimensional anom....." Well, you get what I mean. We always hear about these improvements and many times they're so incremental that it's barely noticeable.
So! Is the AF on the K-3 III a real improvement over the previous generation of Pentax's? Well, let's find out!
There are 3 ways you can support the channel...
Merch store: www.redbubble....
Buy prints: kobie-mc.picfa...
Donate directly via Paypal: www.paypal.me/...
Good honest review of AFC Kobie - Thanks
No problem! Just trying to keep it all as it really is. No fluff, no hiding things. 👍🏽
Nice video Kobie, exactly the kind of stuff I want to see! Great comparison.
Thanks man. Took me a bit to figure out how I was going to do this objectively. Then one night, I woke up with an idea! Why not just let the cameras figure it out?! OMG! That's perfect! Then people can actually see the difference without accusing me of manipulating things. Okay, that's not quite how it went but it did take me a bit to figure out the best way to show this lol.
Real honest hands on approach and testing! It's greatly improved!
Thanks man! 👍🏽
Thank you Kobie, that's very encouraging.
You're welcome. 👍🏽
Hi Kobie. Thank you for another great video. Your comments around 1:30-2:00, if expanded, would make for very interesting watching. You know a lot, and while I think my K-S2 has back-button focus and focus priority, I still default to "regular" AF-C mode whenever stuff gets exciting/complex. I think I'm being lazy (or overwhelmed) in the moment, but I know I ought to learn more about focusing methods to increase my successful hit rate. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. I never actually thought of doing a video along those lines. But, it could make for an interesting watch and would be for any photographer regardless of gear being used. Technique vs Gear reliance. Hmmm, I will seriously think about this one. Thanks for the idea!
@@KobieMC There are already a million videos about "this is what Aperture Priority means," and anyone who has found your channel probably already knows that much (certainly I do). And then there are some in-the-weeds videos like "here's how to use the Pentax Green Button to overcome dark aperture block failure on a K-r," and the audience for such videos is maybe 300 people. But back-button focus, rear-curtain flash, lens micro-adjustments, off-camera flash sync…these are things you can demonstrate on a Pentax, yet would still attract views from other camera users. You have a gift for friendly demonstration, and you clearly know enough to teach others.
@@ransackedroom you're absolutely right! I have come from nearly 50 years of film photography, all with Pentax cameras!
My dip into the digital era has been fun but not always rewarding.
Having gone into fujifilm mirrorless, just didn't like it!
Thanks to Kobie & Lee Hayes. I saw the answer, go back to a dslr with Pentax! Thanks to great informative content, I now have a K-70, and am really growing thanks to Kobie and others! 😊👍
Goes to confirm that the AF-C improvements are significant enough to make a difference in RL photography, and a marked one at that. I've tried to track seagulls before with my K-3 and the old DA 55-300, and though it wasn't utterly impossible, even with working on one's technique, the hit rate wasn't anything to write home about. It's a beginning, it may not be quite D500 level yet, but we finally have a Pentax that actually tracks, and I'm sure they will further refine it from there (firmware updates, more PLM lenses, Ricoh?). Thanks a lot indeed for performing your trials, Kobie.
You're welcome Marc and thank you for watching!
@@KobieMC Oh, watching and dropping a few lines of appreciation is comparatively cheap. And the gulls do make excellent RL test subjects. Now I will need patience until I can pony up the two grand for the camera! But hey, the original K-3 is still a great camera, and till then I will try to make it sing a little bit longer. Not every subject requires advanced tracking.
The FF lenses will solve all problems, they are so much better.
From my experiences, that's not automatically the case. The 150-450 is amazing. But the 60-250 doesn't focus fast enough. And yes it's classed as a crop lens but does cover FF. Regardless, the lens is the lens, whichever format it's mounted to won't change the focus speed of the lens itself.
Understanding what AFC does and what it is for is part of the problem. It is generally a follow-focus for cine work and reportage. It will try to stay focused on the movement of the original subject. It is not in itself "tracking". It will fail if the subject moves too far between frames or if perhaps you pan across a stage to a new subject. For wildlife AFS is usually better if each frame of a burst is focused.
Seagulls against a featureless sky is a good test since there is nothing else for the camera to focus on and confuse it
This is good that the auto focus is very good now. I think some people might move over to Pentax or add Pentax to their gear. Now that Pentax will be the last DSLR maker. I know some people don't like mirrorless.
I think Canon and Nikon have about ten years before they full kill off their DSLR gear and go full mirrorless.
Great video Kobie I don't do bird photography that way I wait until I have focus before I take the picture. Maybe it's because i use the old 6 megapixel cameras occasionally the *istDL and K100D.
That's the technique I normally do as well but that wouldn't have actually shown any difference between the 2 AF systems. So I just let the cameras do their thing this time 👍🏽
That's a significant improvement in AF performance, nice demo Kobie. Did you have SR set to the dedicated panning mode on the K3iii?
No, I haven't used it yet. According to the manual its use is for slow moving objects/slow panning.
@@KobieMC It would be interesting to see if it gave different results, I assume that the SR system detects that you're in a pan but potentially being "aware" of the fact prior to the shot may make a difference.
Good point and worth a try!
That was exactly as I expected, you were ruthlessly objective (thanks for that!) and the new camera meets expectations and promises. I'm curious to see how it performs with old workhorses, though. like the Tamron 17-50mm, the 18-135mm DC WR, the 20-40mm, and some of the supreme values for money in the first Generation autofocus zooms, like the SMC F 35-70mm f3.5-4.5. I can't do a test like that myself yet; I don't have $2K to spare in my budget yet.
No problem! I do actually have a Sigma 17-70 F/2.8-4 DC macro HSM (the 2nd version, not the Contemporary) and an 18-135 WR, along with the screw driven DA L 50-200 WR and 18-55 WR which I will also be using on the K-3 III 👍🏽
@@KobieMC The camera does the focusing, not the lens. Some lenses move focus more quickly than others. My ancient Sigma 50-500 makes a noise like a coffee grinder before it eventually gets there, AF is unreliable.
The problem with any phase detection is that it is phase detection - it matches phase of beams of light. Unfortunately they can be in-phase with the lens not in focus. It needs something else added. Contrast detection cannot lock unless it is tightly in focus, unfortunately it needs to find contrast or it will hunt and refuse to lock. Some systems boast ridiculously fast focus speeds but they're only good if they're accurate. Even the best of these have problems.
Great video. Thanks.
You're welcome. And thanks for watching 👍🏽
Interesting test! It's also good that you have not waited for the focus confirmation before taking the shots because that's where Pentax is really slow at AF-C. It shows that the older models take aaaages before the first focus confirmation.
Now, if you could please sell the K-3 mark 1 and compare the K-3 mark iii to the KP. I heard that the KP's AF is not too bad. Not K-3 iii good, but it would be interesting to know how far the gap is between the two latest APSc cameras. Cheers!
I'm arranging a K-1 II for comparison as well 😮
Great video. Which firmware are you using? K3 mkII V1.11 has improvement to PLM autofocus.
Thank you. I'm using 1.42 on the K-3 Mark 1 and 1.01 on the K-3 Mark III. Neither of those firmware updates have to do with KAF4 lenses (PLM).
Another very informative video Kobie!
The 'Plm' lens looks made for that Camera!
So interesting to see your comparisons between old and new!!
Especially for those of us thinking about upgrading to the K3 lll.
I don't know if you have seen Kobie, but the Pentax 3 mk lll has won 'APS-C Camera of the year' at the 'TIPA World awards' in the 'Expert category'.
Not bad for a 'camera that nobody would want' eh?
It was also the best selling camera in April 2021, in Japan!
Looking forward to your next post! Thanks again.
Thank you! I did see that it won the award. I had a feeling it would. It's a great camera overall!
👍
Great video, thanks
You're welcome 👍🏽
Why on earth did you use an aperture of 6,3 as I think you mentioned, when aperture 8 or even a bit higher would have been more preferable. Especially in such a good light to keep up the shutter speed. I even think the hit rate would have been better with k3 mrk I.
Because it's the most narrow depth of field you can get with this lens which more accurately depicts the in focus range. If it was an F/2.8 lens, I would have shot at F/2.8 or as close to that as possible. It's normal for comparing actual in focus targeting. I know what you're saying, but this was a specific case of testing the actual focus between both cameras. The thinner the depth of field the more accurate the measurement and the largest aperture of the lens at 300 mm is F/6.3.
Due to the age of the original K-3, I wonder what a comparison between the mark II and the mark III would look like.
Not really any different than the K-3 vs K-3 Mark III. The only real differences between K-3 and K-3 II are.
K-3: Built in flash.
K-3 II: No built in flash, has wifi and Astrotracer, pixel shift and 1 stop better SR. Pentax claims the AF was improved but I honestly didn't notice a difference between the 2 when I borrowed a K-3 II to check out.
Ti ringrazio Kobie
molto apprezzato
Saluti dall'Italia
You're welcome! 🙂
The lens is the problem, 55-300 plm can not do it. I get better resultat with the K1-ll and 150-450mm. Even with KP. Had 2 copies of 55-300plm and they are worthless in tracking and finding the subject. Try the same with the 150-450mm set the Focus limiter. Both cameras will do much better. They will hit from first shot.
Compared to all other lenses in the Pentax lineup. The 55-300 PLM does track well. Obviously the 150-450 would be more ideal but from my experiences, the 55-300 PLM does an admirable job.
Not from my testnings. Only compared with old sdm and screwdrive lenses. I have the 15-30, 24-70, 70-200 f2.8, 150-450mm. Also had the 28-105. They perform in a total different League, the 70-200 is the best in all aspects. To put a 500 lens on a 2000 body is holding the camera back in all aspects. It belong on a K70. I sold both copies 55-300 plm after trying 2 years in a row on K1-ll and K3ll and KP because I wanted a light system and it failed. The 28-105 and 55-300 plm, same weight and size goes nice with KP but the performance is far from the other FF lenses so I rather carry the heavy lenses and come home with a smile instaed of irritation and dissapointment. The FF lenses belongs to the K3lll, the DA will not when it comes to tracking and quality, the primes ok for not moving subjects but the rest not. The 20-40 on my KP brings nice pictures but hopless AF. The problem is that people in all brands thinks that a expencive bodies will fix bad lenses but it is the other way around. I bought all FF lenses before the K1 came out, used them on k3 and other bodies and was stunned, like getting a brand new camera. When I sold my Tamron 150-600G2 from my D500 the guy had a used 100usd lens 70-300 on a 2000 body and was very proud and happy. Good price he said, but when testning the Tamron he went into chock mode, fell off the chaire. Like puttning and 100usd cd player to a 10 000 system it destroys everything. The whole link is broken in first step. The lens is the first step.
I was also curious about what memory card you used to hit the buffer. If they write 30mb/s or less the camera is screewed from the start, minimum 95 mb/s in writing speed is needed. Looking forward to next episode.
Don't get me wrong, I do hear you and agree that lenses can and do make a difference. To answer your question, I'm using a UHS II Lexar Pro 1066x 160 MB/S card V30
If I missed that many photos, I would throw them both into the water and that buffer, yeesh.
Nobody in their right mind would shoot moving subjects this way. When shooting normally (NOT worst case scenario to make a point comparison in the video) I easily have a minimum 85-90% keeper rate depending on the environment. I wouldn't be very happy if I missed that many either when actually shooting to shoot with proper technique. Again, wasn't the point of this video.
Kobie , I’m curious… if you can try the same test with the 150-450 , if you can’t access that lens , message me , we can meet up half way
Rather poor considering other systems would have nailed the first frame. Birds in flight generally want 1/500s to kill movement blur.
AFC can be a strange beast. It can often be a follow-focus that tries to stay with the movement of original subject, but can fail if the subject moves too far between frames, or when you switch subject it wants to stay with the first. A burst in single, if that focuses each frame, can often be more effective.
Pentax do pride themselves in being sharp, and if you give them enough time to think about it can be fantastic at that - but run and gun is not their strong point.
These all-focussed bursts fall out of movie shooting tech, not a Pentax strong point.
Could you have a chance to test some srewdrive lenses like limited ones to see how much difference is there? I am K3 mark 1 user with limited lenses and thinking about upgrade.
I don't have any of the limited lenses but I do have the DA 18-55 WR, DA L 50-200 WR, the DA 50 1.8 and a Sigma 170-500 APO (screw drive). One thing I can say even with screw driven lenses, live view focus is much better (much less hunting).
@@KobieMC you really like the zooms. I’d love to see someone on the internet shoot this camera on people with primes.
I have primes. I just need volunteers to shoot lol
큰 차이는 업는것 같습니다.
Translated from Korean: "There doesn't seem to be much difference".
There's a big difference, compare the first image of both cameras and how out of focus the old camera is.
Translated to Korean: 큰 차이가 있습니다. 두 카메라의 첫 번째 이미지를 비교하고 이전 카메라의 초점이 얼마나 벗어났는지 확인합니다.
How does the Pentax K3III compare with a Nikon D500 or Canon R6?
I wouldn't compare any DSLR to a Mirrorless camera. Completely different technologies housed in a camera body. As for the D500, from what I've read in various user experiences, the K-3 III is competitive. I'm not saying better or worse, but it's apparently comparable. I don't have a D500 so I can't compare them myself though.
Still buy k3 mark 1 now used for first camera?
It's still a very capable camera. Depends where you use it. It's not so good at high ISO compared to the K-70, KP, or even the K-5. The AF-C is also not as good but if you're fine with that, it's a very capable camera. I would recommend the KP though if you don't need the battery life and buffer.
@@ShutterKnack Kp is great camera but it haven't in my country ( Ukraine) used. K5 /k5ii better than k3 ? Thank you to answer
@@user-xq9zs7hb8t No, the K-3 than the K-5 iis in all aspects except for ISO performance. I would still pick the K-3 over the K-5 iis. The only "K-5" I would consider is the K-5iis. I would not consider the K-5 and K-5 ii at all. Cheers!
yes
With the way you pan and subject moving, it's hard to get decent focus coming from me as a k5, k200d user. Have not used any modern camera.
Well, panning birds in flight is generally difficult period since they aren't predictable. They climb and they dive all while flying across the image plane. Vehicles and people are much easier to pan since they're only moving in one direction. Also, as I stated, I was not using any technique, I was solely letting each camera do it's thing. The video wasn't about photography techniques. It was about the Auto Focus of each camera. So I eliminated other elements.
Why 1/125? It seems way too slow for flying birds
One twenty five hundreth or 1/2500. Not 1/125.
@@KobieMC ah, ok. that makes much more sense :)
Have u try your long tele lens?
The Sigma 170-500 APO isn't the best IQ so it's better to use the 55-300 PLM and crop if needed.
Wouldn't this be a "better" test if you used a faster shutter speed? Assuming the lens was set to 300mm, try something like 1/300 speed which is the old rule of thumb while you were panning.
The shutter speed used which I mention at 1:16 and is also shown in the Exif data in the program is 1/2500 sec. Yes the general rule is a minimal shutter speed to match the focal length so you minimize hand shake.
And 9:15 is where it's in the Exif data. Right hand side of the program in the column.
The "rule of thumb" is meant to be applied to FF cameras. For APS-C cameras, the shutter speed should be 1.5 x faster, i.e., 1/(1.5*focal length).
@@class_a Good point about the crop factor 👍🏽
Never had a problem with the focus on the K3. Captured a lot of sporting events. And wild life. Would never set
Up the camera the way you did. No wonder you missed so many images. All my work was done for news paper.
Obviously. And as I stated, this is NOT how I shoot. It was just to show the hardware AF improvements taking technique out of the equation entirely. My K-3 works fine for me as well. Same with my K-30. But technique was not part of this video or you'd see zero difference between the AF.C on both cameras.
K3 Mark 3 is a cash grab. Nothing major improvement from Mark 1 and 2 and yet 3 to 4 time priced from mark 1 and mark 2. Mediocre improvement in autofocus accuracy which should have been fixed in mark 1 and 2 to begin with, the same buffer as a D7200, and yet they are trying to complete against the D500. No articulating screen in 2021. Come on. Why get the k3 mark3 when you can get the D500 now?
K-3 was $1300 USD when released.
K-3 II was $1100 USD which makes sense as it was a small upgrade to the K-3. The K-3 Mark III is not 3 or 4 times the price ($3300-$5200 USD), not even close.
The viewfinder is a big improvement, the auto focus speed as well, the AF system is a big improvement too.
Being able to use fully manual lenses and dial in the aperture is a big improvement. The smart function is a big improvement. I've tested the K-3 bs K-3 III and the AF accuracy is a big improvement. Is the camera perfect? No, no camera is. But I'm not sure where you're basing all this on. Pentax never said it was competing with the D500. The consumers claimed that.
@@KobieMC Regardless who is claiming what, bottom line is D500 is its direct competitor. And my conclusion stand, if I was coming in and buying my first DSLR, give me a reason why I should get this over the D500. All of the improvements you are stating should still be priced at the retail of the Mark One - In 2021, where you have very stiff competition from Nikon, Sony, Canon over crop DSLR, all new NIkon products, Sony, Canon, this product is targeting an extremely small range of avid Pentax fans who would most likely be thinking real hard before forking up that 2 grand.
You "tested" the new AF of the new camera, with only one new slow aperture lens for a few days? Not even knowing all the new options (including the metering) and what they do? And now you are offering a conclusion on the K3.3 in general? The bottom line is, you have no idea YET about the gear, but are rushing to be the first offering conclusions, not even bothering to use superior optics? Goodness me...
I am far from the first. I took my time releasing content because I wanted to ensure I had time with the camera and studied it, the manual, online content by Ricoh before creating content. I've had the camera for more than what you claim as a few days (it's been almost a month). I know the options of the camera and what the various metering means including how the subject recognition works. I only use what I have. We're currently in a lockdown/stay at home order from the government. The DFA 150-450 which I'll be testing with the K-3 III, and the K-1 II which I'll also be comparing (because people of asked for it) that were to be loaned to me again will have to wait until we are no longer in lockdown.
Judging solely the new AF vs the old, using the same (very popular, fast focusing) lens is all this was about. To show how much of a difference there is with JUST the hardware. That's it. All there is to it. Not sure where these assumptions are coming from regarding me not knowing the options of the camera which I bought specifically for those options. I actually read the manual too top to bottom before I even had the camera so it's not like I just got the camera, took a few photos over a couple of days and said HEY!!! I'm now going to make a video about it! That's not even close to the reality. Thanks for watching and commenting though. 👍🏽
@@KobieMC You used only one consumer grade dim zoom lens. You did not even test the native sensitivity of the AF for the centre point using an adequate lens in these tests. I am positively stating that your study is A) incomplete, B) flawed as are C) your conclusions - no matter how "well meaning they may be". Your well-meaningness is just an idle excuse for a sloppy job; to take something amateurishly put together as 'legible'. You don't have the required equipment to draw even 25% of viable conclusions, nor enough time invested to understand what entitles a good review (that requites a plethora of subjects too). I mean, a few days back, you have proven you don't even know how or why we have a different new metering in the K3.3. I suggest you to find a different hobby. Knitting?
Well, it's pretty apparent what your objective is and I won't lower myself to entertain it. The video is done fairly and the point of it was made., Make of it what you will. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 No worries, I tested it with a "proper zoom lens" as you'd say. Or is the Sigma 100-300mm F4 a bad option in the Pentax system? Let me know in the comments below; and I just found out most likely what Kobie found out. So now you can get lost or something :) BYEEEEE
Dani, you wouldn’t know what’s a good lens even if it was strapped on your nose. The tragic failure of Pentax K3.3 user reviews is the showcase of utter ignorance of the new camera, general photography, the metering, the requirements for successful tests; the so-called tests for the new camera are done, as if by some spell, by using the cheapest and dimmest consumer zoom, often in abysmal circumstances during rainy days, and so on. Utter amateurs.
Kobie, I don't understand the test parameters for this, it's almost like you're trying to highlight worst case scenario for both photographer / camera technique.
Going from defocused to in focus shows how quickly the camera can identify / calculate subject and send calc to lens. The iii won that handily as you would expect :)
The K-3 did better holding focus over the iii in your next comparison :p which is more user technique failure, some of your shots have the seagull in the top left hand corner of the frame and not closer to the centre so you're pushing the AF system and running into lens limitations (it's a fine lens for its price but don't expect ultimate sharpness across the frame).
So going by the images you presented, the K-3 can be helped by prefocusing and once locked on will hold pretty well. :p see where I'm confused about parameters of test?
Btw, not sitting on fence, I'm awaiting delivery for an early April preorder. I'm subscribed too but this video came across as a bit confused.
Keep up the good work!
Fair enough. Let me try to explain why I did it this way...
I could have relied on my own technique and that would have shown zero difference regarding the actual AF system between both cameras. The point was to A) Show the significance of the K-3 Mark III AF.C acquisition speed vs the K-3 Mark I. And B) Show what I've been saying regarding the tracking algorithm needing a tweak on the K-3 Mark III. Many, many times the AF point will be around the subject but not actually on the subject. It'll be just behind the bird, just below a wing tip, just in front of or above the bird. BUT it stays within the general focal distance of the subject. If I did my usual tracking method of follow from a distance and wait, all images from both cameras would have been pretty equal and wouldn't have shown a worthwhile difference between the 2 systems. I wanted to eliminate technique and only focus (no pun intended) on the actual AF.C systems between the 2 cameras.
@@KobieMC Thank for your detailed explanation, appreciated.
This was one of the more useful reviews. I'm still not interested- there's too much out there that surpasses these results.
Thanks for the compliment! And fair enough. Use the tool that suits you best 👍🏽
Not when you have an investment of $20,000 in Pentax glass.
Then the question really becomes is the new investment worth the return? Or is it better to just upgrade one device that you already know the quality of. After I priced things out, it just wasn't worth it for me to switch systems, I didn't feel I'd really be gaining much if anything at the end of the day vs getting the K-3 III.
@@KobieMC Yes, that is the question. Just sold an old dirt bike, so the money is not an issue. I just need to decide whether that $3K+ expenditure would be best used on another camera body or something else.
Can't help you there but take your time and good luck with the decision!
You are completely off base about the auto-focusing tracking on this camera. Or either you got a lemon or you are being paid to talk bad about the camera. The K-3 I is better then your shots. Not even saying anything about the mark II. The K-3 III also has 12 FPS, 7 GPS and 2.5 choosing the slowest to shoot... mmmmm
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Everything in the video is a real life situation recorded as it happened. At no period did I say the K-3 was a bad camera. This was strictly the AF difference. The only way to test that is to take specific techniques out of the equation so the only thing left is the camera and lens itself. EVERYONE who has a K-3/II AND a K-3 Mark III has the same conclusions.
In the video, neither camera was set to the slowest continuous shooting speed, so I have no idea what you're on about there. And the K-3 III in AFC is 11 fps. The K-3 is UP TO 8 fps in AFS. Pentax has stated that in AFC, the camera will shoot slower based on a number of parameters, time to focus, ISO etc.
So again, I have no idea where or how I'm "off base" when purely looking at the hardware alone and how it functions in the real world. Using techniques I would normally use when shooting the K-3, I absolutely would have better shots, but technique is not part of this video. Thanks for watching and commenting though 👍🏽
To slow and to shallow
What do you mean 1/2500 sec is too slow? And what was too shallow?
Your comment makes no sense....he used a high shutter speed....and as for shallow....compared to a depth of field to the sky?
At first of video you state 1/250 but then later state 1/2500 but at 6.3 shallow depth. And when you final both took about 6 frames to get in focus. And to shoot birds in flight at 300mm really to shallow. The cropp value at 24megipixel killer. Not knocking the K3III but for 3k .
@@Deano1967able At exactly 1:16 I state 1/2500th of a second. Where's the 1/250 mentioned?
Nikon d500 is better in BIF photo, there is so many stunning phots birds made by d500, Pentax sucks ...
And they've had 5 years to accumulate photos. Regardless. It has absolutely no bearing on this specific video which is about 2 Pentax cameras. Thanks for watching and commenting though 👍🏽
Then why bottering watching the video and comenting? Are you just a SJW or another Jater? (notice the J i added there instead of an H? It is just to piss you off xDDDD)