How to test for a shorted ignition coil (Honda Distributor)
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- In this video I will show you how to troubleshoot a no start condition on a Honda. The problem with this car was a shorted ignition coil.
Engine Performance Diagnostics chapter 22
Symptoms
- no start (cranks normally)
- no spark
- good injector pulse and fuel pressure
Fix
- replace shorted ignition coil
Tests shown
- how to use the key on engine off check engine light as a guide
- how to test for spark
- how to check for injector pulse with a basic test light
- how to verify cam and crank sensor signals to the ECU
Tools used
- lab scope
- inductive low amp probe
- backprobing tools
- incandescent test light
Playlist
- (Chapter 22) No Spark Troubleshooting, Ignition Coil & Module Testing • (Chapter 22) No Spark ...
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- Ford 5.4 shorted coil primary winding and bad computer driver
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- How to find a shorted coil on a Ford 5.4 engine (misfire diagnosis) • How to find a shorted ...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
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On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. 
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So glad someone else actually knows how to properly diag. Good work
Mr. Danner, Do you even know how many people you educate and inspire around the world? You have no idea. Blessings.
I really don't but thank you my friend! It looks like RUclips is using some new badges and it says you have been with me for over 4 years!! That's awesome, thank you so much!
ScannerDanner I should be thanking you. You are appreciated!
This is diagnostics at its best, one man,one handed,100% accurate.Keep up the good work buddy!
that is awesome. great comment. comments like this inspire me to keep doing what I am doing. thank you
Your vides are sooo informative!! I bought a vantage pro to pair up with my solus pro after seeing all the diagnostic work you do with a lab scope. My diagnostic work is way more accurate and I'm able to confirm every repair before and after completing the work because I'm able to understand what the car is doing. I really appreciate your videos!!
Man I wish u could post a new video everyday, I freaking love this stuff. I look forward to each & every video u post coupled whit the teachings of ur book. Makes for greater under standing... The Bruce lee of automotive.. Man u kick ass!
Thank you and I appreciate the comment!
You can tell this guy knows his stuff like he's been late for work and really needs his car to work in a hurry
thank you and I won't stop doing the theory I just would like to show some more of the videos where I put all the theory together and use it for a quick diagnosis. I'm not sure how well I will be able to do that though as explanations are needed.
Great process, been enjoying your work for some months now!!!
Can't wait for the next one of these videos!!
Great stuff as always Paul, I don't have the expensive gear but I like to know the different paths to take when diagnosing problems like this and you make it easy for me to get my head round it all. Thank you (and ETCG for leading me to your channel :)).
Great,elaborate diagnostic procedures,Paul,thanks
Scanner Danner (Paul) you are amazing! My problem with my civic, thanks!
Oh okay, gotchya! thanks for clearing up the confusion! and thanks for all the videos, keep em' going! everyone enjoys, and learns alot from them!!!
I personally enjoy the theory that goes into it. Great job
great video as always thanks paul keep up the good work
I do have that in mind when I am doing these videos. Unfortunately when it came time to check the coil circuit for control, it was just so much more accurate and faster to use the scope. Although using the test light on coil negative and looking for a "flicker" in the test light can be used as a guide too. That is why I put that note in the video that was a hyperlink to my Subaru no spark video where I show the test light procedure.
Thanks Paul, your the best my friend, your videos are very good man
Either way you inspire me as a tech to keep learning and to be my best and surpass the part changer.
Thanks Paul , please keep it up
A TRUE TECH @ WORK, PAUL!!!!!!!!
Awsome video needed this. Thanks
Excellent work scanner really puts it all together.
cool. Hoping to see lots of 'hands on' stuff like this!
That kind of practical guide is great.
thanks for the video dan
I know this post is very old, but it's still very useful for diagnosing a crank-but-no-start problem on my 1992 Honda Accord that ran fine just last week. I'm trying to translate what's on this video, which has an internal coil to my Accord, which has an external coil. The external coil does not have the "+" and "-" markings on it. There's a 4-prone plug connected to the coil, but only 3 terminals are active.
As mentioned, there are 3 wires (BLK/YEL, BLK/WHT, and YEL) connected to the coil. According to the wiring diagram in the Honda Shop Manual, the BLK/YEL wire comes from the ignition switch; the YEL wire goes to the "power" terminal (BLK/YEL) on the igniter; the BLK/WHT wire goes to the "primary output control" terminal (GRN) on the igniter. There's also a YEL/GRN wire on the igniter that connects to the ECU, and a BLU wire on the igniter that goes to the tachometer and other stuff. I did the following test:
1) With ignition ON and all wires connected to both the coil and igniter, I measured around 12V steady on both the BLK/YEL and GRN wires on the igniter.
2) While cracking, the GRN wire still measured 12V steady (i.e., no flickering).
3) I disconnected the GRN wire from the igniter, then hooked the test light clip to battery "+" terminal, and put the probe on the igniter terminal where the GRN wire had been plugged in. There's no flickering when the engine's cranked.
4) I completely disconnected the coil from the engine and measured resistance between various terminals according to instructions in the repair manual. The resistance values do not meet spec.
Based on these tests, I'm concluding both the igniter and coil are bad. Did I do the tests (as described by ScannerDanner in the video) correctly for my car, and is my conclusion correct? Please help.
Just realized I posted my earlier comment to the wrong ScannerDanner video. Comments belongs here ruclips.net/video/-ZGLoSSowYY/видео.html . I've reposted comments there. Sorry.
Thank you sir! I had the same problem and replaced the coil. Started right up
Good video bud , keep doing a good job 👍
will do on the check engine light part. as 4 direction if you have no spark and good injection pulse this generally means your inputs are fine. if you have no spark and no injection pulse this means you go in the direction of an input problem. again these are generalizations but it does give you some kind of direction. there are some differences in system design that will change things a bit but you can follow these as a guide
Looking forward to more like this! Thought process is so crucial when dealing with diaganostics. Is that a led or bulb test light Paul?
Great video. Thanks
Thank you
Just ran across this video and it has helped tremendously with my crank no start. I'm at a point now that I have no spark. Checked injector pulse and I have no pulse either so cam or crank sensor. The car did get fried on a huge coil short so I am guessing cam sensor which means new dizzy!
New dizzy? Distributor?
I believe the AC cooling fan is controlled based on a pressure transducer (sensor) in the high side of the AC system. If I remember correctly the fan doesn't come on until about 220 psi on the high side. I'll check a diagram for you when I get a chance.
Thanks for sharing.
I have seen that before, it is actually pretty easy to do with the wiring set up.
Good Afternoon ScannerDanner have a great day 👍 Take care ScannerDanner 👍 God bless you
Great tutorial thanks👍
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
fine work
I love the theory videos as they are much more instructional but these kinds of quick diagnosis are a nice change of pace. Enjoyed it because it was a great practical example of a real world situation for techs. Would like to see you drop down some more examples for us DIY'ers that don't have access to a scope. Seeing you use a test light was neat because usually you have $xxxx worth of scope in your hands. :)
the only time I ever burned out a test light on one of these types of tests was on an MSD ignition coil primary circuit. Other than that one car, my regular old fashioned test light can handle those momentary 100-400v spikes.
Thank you and tell my friend Eric I said hi
thanks for the video is awesome i would like to ask you if you can tell me for a specific manual to study the questions to get the L1 certification thanks for your time and your efforts to do these videos man you are good
Your the man Paul
One of my friends has a 96 civic and she tried doing a cylinder drop test herself by pulling the plug wires off the spark plugs engine running and not giving that spark any place to go. She got to the third cyl and the car died and won't start. Battery had to be replaced so I couldn't look but is it possible she fried the coil?
I know it's been a long time since you filmed this. But I had a question. I'm having a crank no start issue but it only happens in the morning when its 34° outside. I turn the key to the on position and my check engine light does NOT come on. In the video you said that would point you in a specific direction. What direction would that be? Any help would be much appreciated.
Wow, just read this comment now. Thank you so much! I am truly grateful that you would take the time to leave feedback on my ebook here.
I owe you one :-)
sometimes you can depends on how shorted the coil is. most of the time u need a scope and amp probe to see it.
Paul I am trying to fix a 1996 dodge caravan 3.8 a/c cooling fan problem, a/c works . 2 fans eng & a/c. The eng fan circuit works but a/c does not when a/c clutch is on. I can power the fan manually on. I tested the relay harness power in & grd & power out to eng fan is ok but I do not get a signal to turn on a/c fan from ecm. My diagram looks like both fans on same circuit . I suspect the a/c driver is fried, when eng fan is on should the a/c fan be on as well ? Not sure. Thanks
Can you give me year make and model? I'm not sure of the abbreviation off hand.
Handled that car like a boss
can i use the mt2400 to do the test using vom probe
what setting is best on mt2400 if dont have scope
on a distributor with the crk sensor located inside of it
Please help my 2006 Honda MDX will crank but no start. It distributes gas to cylinders but wont spark coils to crank ON. Could it be a bad crank sensor???
scan data would not have identified a shorted coil secondary winding. I could have used it to check for an RPM signal which would have told me the inputs where there, but I would have still had to do the tests under the hood.
scan tool data only provides direction, not the cause of the fault.
how do you know that the coil is bad on the scope by look at the wave? am trying to learn since am starting as a tech right now and by the way ur video is great looking forward to see more tips from you
It was a little bit different because the Subaru had NO control on the coil where this one did. It was the same test but the result was something different. In other words the Subaru needed an igniter where the Honda needed a coil.
The problem that I have with my car is not the ignition coil but the fuel pump relay. Well, that's what I thought at first, but I have now found out that there is no power in the (female) connectors that attach to it. Could that be a problem with the harness or could it be something that has to do with the ECU? Thank you, before hand for your answer, and for your videos, they are very good and worthwhile.
Fanyastic !! I do not have a scope but if I keep on watching your vids I think I may just get a Pico 4 channel. Could you use a low amp clamp with a dmm to check the coil ? That I have.
My 2001 Honda civic relays in the glove box clicks when started and the rpms pulses up and down, the check engine light comes on and off at the same time, after about 10 clicks the check engine light stays on, the clicking goes away, it idles low , very low for about 3 minutes and then idles to what sounds and appears to be normal. Even still if you press on the gas to high rpm the engine pulses and won't rev high rpm, can't even drive the car passed 50 mph, any suggestions out there
Hi there Datascanner, I have a 2000 Honda CRV with an intermittent no start condition.When the engine is running I have a logic probe on the black/ yellow wire and have a pulse( obviously). I can leave the vehicle running in the shop for about 20 mins and the engine has stopped when I go back to it. Unfortunately when I crank it the vehicle starts again. I am thinking a faulty module or main relay. It would be easier if it wouldn't start again hey? Anyway next step is to get a scan tool on and see if I have any codes, probably not but next step.Any ideas or direction mate?RegardsRoss Australia
agree but that wasn't an option on this one. I have plenty of other videos that show what a good coil current ramp pattern looks like though.
I'll look for a honda tomorrow at the school that I can show you what a good pattern looks like and maybe do a video response to this 1 with it
i am have the same problem but i already change the whole distributor already and still no spark can u help me figure this out please. i have a 97 civic lx with a 1.6 same engine in your video. i am going to do the injector test tomorrow to see if the crank sensor is good the cam sensor should be find cause the came with distributor
Hey Paul
Next time you need a helper to shoot the camcorder let me know.Great upload as always.
Thanks bro
I have a 1990 Honda Civic no start. Car has fuel pressure. With cap off I can see coil spark but when I try and arc off that the coil stops sparking. What causes this?
sorry to bother sir. I have a honda that has problems with the secondary ignition i took a test to test for ground and current circuits. turn out that when i connect the test light to ground and the electrode to the ground of the coil wires the lighg turns. what could that mean?
do you have my eBook? i can promise you the material in it will be key to passing the L1. I have maintained it for more than 15 years now and on my last recert i missed 2 questions out of 50. i say this only to let u know that what i am teaching is all about what u need for the L1
Did you test the relay?
It was a craftsman test light. Less than $20 at Sears
What brand is that test ligt because Iam interested in buying one.
I know you covered this is in a doffrent video you posted. But my proffesor and my boss at the shop i work at both have been tought not to use a test light to test injector pulses. They say the extra amps to turn on the test light could potentialy burn out the transistor driver in the ecu?
Totally not true at all. Injector drivers can handle way more than the extra 300 ma a test light will throw at it. Even with the injector load.
For more help..
It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there.
Paul Danner (ScannerDanner)
www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
Thank you for the responce. Very iformative
Good real world hands on example !
When you were verifying that the CEL lights up in the beginning, you didn't say exactly why...is that to ensure the ECU is operational?
I have a 1994 Honda Accord with a external coil. Crank but no spark. I’ve ran across this video and followed your steps. Here is the thing, I’ve checked the wire diagram in my chiltons and that black w/yellow wire shows that it goes to the ignition and is positive, not to the negative side of my coil. I tested it at the ICM/ignitor switch. However, I do not get power to the yellow/green wire from the ignitor switch to the ECM
I did a pulse check on a injector which I do get power there from the ECM. I did a Ohm check on the resistance on my coil and comes back within spec.
Any recommendations on what to do next is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
all of my diagrams show the coil as being inside of the distributor so I am not sure if the wiring is the same but the yellow/green wire is the on/off trigger signal that the ECU sends to the igniter to tell it when to fire the coil. You will NOT have a constant power there, it will be a pulsed square wave pattern and you most likely cannot test it with a test light and a digital voltmeter will be too slow to see the exact high and low of that square wave, HOWEVER, you will be able to see an average of that signal during cranking if it is there.
The black with a yellow is the main power feed to both the ignition coil AND the igniter.
I believe this video will help you more ruclips.net/video/-ZGLoSSowYY/видео.html
Watch this video and then we can talk some more
lot of theory in that. in short you want to see turn on oscillations at the beginning of a primary coil current ramp. These oscillations are from the secondary winding feedback. no oscillations suggests a shorted coil secondary. some systems you will not see these though so a lot of this is experience. you should check out my eBook. I have stuff like this in there.
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Shorted coil with no spark is easy to find. How can I identify a weak coil that causes misfire (besides using a test light and watching spark)? Secondary ignition waveform?
Which path does the no check engine light during ignition take us?
Hey I have a 96’ accord v6 and I have a tach issue I’ve been told it could be a ignition coil issue, I’m trying to get some more input on it. It mostly operates just fine some times acts up for a little bit but sometimes goes haywire, it will go from normal operation to bouncing everywhere and dropping down to 0 but there is no performance issue
No performance issues means it is most likely a gauge issue. But check the blue wire that goes to the ignition coil, it is the signal to run the tachometer.
hey i just saw this video i have a honda civic that the check engine light doesn’t illuminate at all even with the switch on and you didn’t speak of what it was so i was wondering if you could share it with me to get my car running
No start and no MIL key on suggests the ecm is not powering up. Step 1: key on, measure voltage on your TPS or MAP sensor and see if you have a 5v ref available to one of those two sensors and report what you find
Hey I have a 1998 Honda Civic that keeps burning the distributor. I replaced it 3 times already. I have warranty so AutoZone just orders me another one. The distributors are remanufactured. The engine and transmission have no issues. I replaced the spark plugs, the wires, cap and rotor and there's no moisture. Any thoughts on how to resolve my issue? Thanks!
check the ground wires also
Where did you get the test light from? Part number?
Paul Please tell me,Only with "Ne" signal can car be started?
I am a disable vet so I have a 1991 toyota camry a/c problem It has good high and low pressers it was converted many years ago to 134a . It will not engage clutch or idle up when a/c is on . The a/c button light up and does not flash . If I manually put 12 volts to a/c clutch it workes and cools the car . I have checked the fuses and relay it does not get voltage to the relay to turn on the a/c clutch. I have to factory manual. Any ides? It sucks being disabled
What would you look for knowing you have injector pulse and a good distributor, But no pcm signal output to the pcm to icm when cranking only power when key on engine off?
Main relay- Crank sensor?
+Dave Roy if you have injector pulse it would not be the crank sensor. So no power to what cranking? That is there KOEO?
The ignition coil?
NO signal from the ecu to icm.
the only power i get to the distributor is with the key on engine off .the car dose crank, its a new distributor, but im not getting a pulse signal from ecu signal wire to send to the icm to coil
Great video, thanks for posting.
One question: Wouldn't it be easier to check for spark by just clipping an inductive timing light to one of the plug wires and cranking the engine to see if the light flashes?
no, not only do I want to check for spark, but I want a visual on how strong it is
That's what you fingers are for (ha, ha). But seriously, thanks again for the video. Call me lucky, but in 45 years of working on cars I've never encountered a weak spark-- although I know it can happen. I've always had good spark or nothing at all.
You make diagnosing seem complicated as hell , when it's really not.
Paul is this the pattern you were looking for in your Subaru no spark video???????????????????????
what if the CEL comes lights you when you turn the key but doesn’t go off causes no fuel pump prime and no spark then sometimes the fuel pump will prime and there will be spark and no cel will stay on ? i’ve replaced computer main relay and fuel pump on a 94 honda.
you need to do some testing on the ignition system DURING the no spark situation
Ignition switches are common faults on these too. Try banging on the column on the next no start
great video, are you gonna have a 100th video special.lol
You said if you did not have a check engine light it would point you in a specific direction. But you had it, so you went in a different direction. I have no check engine light. What is the direction you mentioned ?
If you turn the key on and there is no check engine light, the next thing you want to do is to check the main engine computer fuses. Then check for a 5v reference like in this video. I know it is an older Ford, but it is the same approach ruclips.net/video/1Nvyc_88AbY/видео.html
My car is a Honda Civic 2000. It has the same no spark - no start problem, but only after the car has runned and the engine has warmed up. At morning and on cold cranking the engine always starts. On faulty condition, already tested the PGM-FI main relay and fuel pressure both good.
It seems high temperature creates no-spark failure. Any suggestion on where to see in the ignition system: igniter, sensors, coil, wires or what?
Thanks
Hello sir. I see it’s been 5 years and I’ve run into this same problem with my now 98 civic. autozone told me my starter alternator and battery are good but mid day it seems when it’s hot out, my car will crank but not start. I’m literally gambling every time I drive around and stop somewhere.
Did you find a fix?
Yes, If the CEL light doesn't come on for the initial self test, that means the ECU could be the problem.. unless the bulb itself is dead.
Is there a reason why you use a test light for spark testing? Could you just as well have used just a piece of wire?
I have Honda accord going same thing cranking no start. And also key flashing in dash
you cannot the dmm isn't fast enough to pick up a rapid fire off an ignition coil. not to mention it is the ramp characteristic that we are looking at which you certainly can't see with a dmm
update i have spark changed the crank sensor and a blown fuse link unfortunately what i should have done first is check the compression case all i'm getting is 30 psi in 2 cylinders and 0 in the rest so I am screwed, I know how to do a head gasket but its a lot of work
Michael D it's not too much work it's the easiest engine .
I have a 94 civic have spark have fuel no start. We have checked for spark and we have it we pressure tested the fuel all good im thinking ignitor am i on the right track ?
Patrick
Please post your question here www.scannerdanner.com/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=3226
I promise to help. I just opened this tonight and want to get it going. Thanks!
Help me! I have a 1998 honda accord that after warming up, I'll have the power to the engine randomly stall and come back. Sometimes it'll turn the engine off completely and I'll have to pull over and wait a bit for it to be able to turn back on. I know it'll turn back on is because when I turn the key the check engine light will be on. If it's not, the car won't turn over. Already changed the ignition coil.
ignition switch is common. When it does it again, smack on the bottom of the column, under the ignition switch or cycle the key on and off a bunch of times and see if it comes back to life
yes I just use a test light because it's easier