You'd be surprised how many people have not learned that from their parents and they just go around touching everyone like they're their bro like man I've never seen you before wtf
Crowd hype and shit talk between players is all good. Players from the other person's team or anyone really just screaming in your ear is absurd. Basically if someone's first instinct is to punch you, you've gone too far.
About screams: context matters - the melee thing was just straight up hurting the other player. Screaming loudly into another person ear can be damaging. A headbutt would probably been a nice defensive gesture. The timing is important for players versus player interaction. As we see with classic sports: trash talk before and after the action is common and part of the game. However, most people are silent when the action happens. Audience and crowd is different. These behaviours are mostly learned from other spectators or comes from local experience. We don't expect a snooker audience screaming the whole match. We do expect a soccer audience to be loud the whole time. The atmosphere and rhythm of the game "dictates" the behaviour of the audience. A calm, methodical and quiet game has an equally calm and quiet audience (golf, snooker). A loud and fast sport with possible lots of scrambles will have a loud and scramblish audience. I think nobody expects golf claps when 200lb dudes crash into each other in American football. Fencing allows the audience a pause to react every 5-15 seconds. Judo has a similar rhythm, where people appreciate the action in silence until they can follow up with applause. When actions take longer the audience will have to react in real-time. I guess some people want the fighting game audience to be more like Judo and fencing and others want them to be like wrestling.
@@madthrasher88 that would be funny as fuck to see We can have pro fighters braking down their playstlye. And psychologists breaking down the shit talking
I don't talk to people during tournaments, but if we're playing casuals, I'm going to be talking the whole time and having fun social interactions during the social activity. If I wanted to play against a person who I'm not interacting with, I'll stay online.
Getting hype at combo breaker and heckling juicebox screaming HE CAN SEE THE FRAMES in kof as his wife was death glaring anyone popping off is probably one of my favorite fgc moments. I can't imagine that not being okay.
Went to a smash tourney way back when Brawl was new and there was a player who would scream mad loud to distract his opponent. Wonder if it was this MikeHaze 🤔
number one unspoken rule of FGC is just dont ever put your hands on someone else, basically don't get physical. If someone is screaming at the top of their lungs in your ear, I think thats physical, you could be someone with tinnitus and that could actually hurt and leave your ears ringing. but... If im in tournament competition with money on the line and I anti-air you or some shit and say (not scream) "get out my airspace lil boy" or call you slow when you're not reacting to something mid round then it's on YOU as a competitor to not let me in your head and mentally affect you. (for the record I dont talk during matches myself unless my opponent is aswell)
but that has nothing to do with the game tho, i get teabagging and shit within the game to bm, but how does external shit has anything to do with being good at the game, honest question
@@jigawatt7941 you're right it has nothing to do with the game, but it has everything to do with the nature of competition. Like Obama said in the video with the examples of NFL/NBA athletes, trash talking has nothing to do with their actual sport, but you can't enforce athletes to stay quiet during the game.
It's totally a "read the room" situation, very subjective, requires attention to nuance, etc. I actually think a little verbal psych out game can be acceptable, but it depends on who is playing and what the stakes are. As far as anything that isn't, like, televised or for a cash prize, I don't see general banter in a match being a problem. If a player has a situation where they need to concentrate, they can request to have their situation respected, and that can be upheld.
You get directly at my face and start yelling at me I'll take it as you're trying to start a fist fight, same if you're screaming at my ear. You can't have people acting as thugs and being respectful at same time, it's one or the other.
@@iorilamia Because there's no such thing. You can't yell at someone's face respectfully. Fortunately for guys like FilipinoChamp and K-Brad, actual thugs or crazy people will never get far into tournaments, at least not to a point worth of talking shit to them.
If someone would scream or especially scream into my ear repeatedly... I would get up and walk away, because that guy sounds like spoiled brat who can't win otherwise.
at least the way I run things in my hs esports team is that both players should agree on some basic things (talking during the match, etc.), and we have a rule set in case the players are too awkward to speak to each other before the game. The crowd can get hyped, but no yelling things that could change the outcome (THATS PUNISHABLE, etc.) also, if a player has a problem with noise at the venue, it is their responsibility to bring headphones or whatever.
I always thought I would be bothered by people yelling behind me because I'm pretty reserved in general, but somehow people yelling/cheering for their friend during my matches just made them more fun and exciting overall lmao, it felt like more was at stake.
I like to feel it even makes you go, "Oooh, they talking shit. Let me prove them different." If you got distracted but loss off some regular shit like not dropping a combo, you're just going to look more salty when you bring it up.
man, it'd be a real shame if legendary popoffs like Tokido's messatsu would never come to being because people are too scared to be DQ'd for "unsportsman-like" conduct. I feel like the communication between the players sets apart offline play and online (besides the latency, of course) and adds that extra depth. as you said, obama, the mental fortitude is a key part of a player's repertoire that can be trained. all in all, good takes, good talk
I think a big factor into drawing "the line" its based on intent, its one thing to be hyped for you or your homies and feeling yourself... its another to "caba" it up. If you know what I mean. Now poping off to your opponent BEFORE or AFTER the match, im def down with especially if there is animosity or both are about it, now during the match... eh harder to call. Also yea that Justin shit is foul, but w/e.
@@stopcryingalready I think it’s confusing because Red and Pink are awesome Starburst. They’re grouped together. Orange and yellow were separated and maybe some other color. I find it confusing he made red seem bad.
This is the exact culture that got me into the FGC. I had been playing fighting games since the original SF2 but hadn't become aware of the FGC till SF4 and seeing videos like Daigo Jago and Combofiend vs anyone mvc3 and crowd reactions and EMP stories and madness and hype etc... That culture drew me in. But I also come from the Bronx, NY for my first 18 years and to me that era of FGC paralleled a lot of hiphop culture and battle rap culture and of all the sports was most like the NBA funny you use that example. I think Ultradavid wrote an article around that time of going to an FGC event and Esports event in the same weekend and the differences and yeah we were all hands on deck and stage and loud and in your face vs they had plexi glass and barriers between the fans and stages. He also noted the minority ratios were incredibly different at the time FGC vs Esports. Unfortunately, as more attempts at turning this into a business combined with new younger players who don't want anything to do with competitive live pressure from not only the fans but even their actual opponents. That part of what drew me in seems to have dissipated. Funny that as we police the culture seems that we also police more and more our in game creativity but thats a different topic haha.
Man you summed it up perfectly. That aspect of the FGC is going the way of the Dodo. And like Obama says without it the FGC stands to lose alot of what makes it unique.
During my childhood I tended to play fighting games alone. I just ran through arcade mode a bunch of times by myself because I didn't have anyone to play with. I think the scarcity of interaction in this genre of clearly multiplayer games got me really talkative when I finally started sitting down with real people to play these games. Talking to my opponents has developed into a bit of a habit and usually the other person will engage in the conversation since its usually not a serious match, so I'm surprised to see that there are some people who don't like casual conversation during casuals. I understand, but if I saw that the other person wasn't very responsive to conversation I would probably just get off and not want to play with them. They're not wrong for wanting to focus or they might even have trouble focusing in general and talking makes the game unfun for them, but I don't want to play fighting games in silence. That may be what I signed up for when I was going through arcade mode, but after playing with another human being and shooting the shit, I'm not going back. It isn't how I want to play fighting games anymore.
As long as it's doesn't get physical or overtly personal, trash talk is love, trash talk is life (and this is coming from someone whose week to crowd heckling)
I know personally that when I went to CEO 2016 they put me in on stream for my first MK match on pools, and the guy I played against had his whole posse on the floor heckling me and yelling the entire time. It just feels bad when you're trying to focus on the game and you can hear guys actively making fun of you. If I was a true competitor of course I should've been able to shut that out and focus on my game, but I wasn't mentally tough enough and let the frustration get to me.
If you are a true competitor you should have the tools available in order to combat crowd noise. Be it headphones you brought with you or earbuds connected to your own phone music so you stay focused. Especially if the stakes are that high.
so when I went to smash N splash my boys knew I love hearing the hype behind me, so my boys where hyping me way the fuck up, I really think blocking out surrounding noise is apart of the tournament, but to me the line is straight at yelling in a players ears.
when i'm telling non fgc people about the games, i always tell em about Pokchop. Even if you barely know the game, and hell, many spectators do not, you can feel that energy and you can respond to a big personality.
I was wrong TBH. That was a long time ago before I could afford to carry headsets around all the time. But it does make for funny tv to hear me yell at poor krone and kick him while hes down :p
I mean I will let out a little “aah” if I get punished super hard just bc I (am) growing up in a scene where ppl talk constantly while they play. I mean my friends make fun of me for being too quiet!
I'm just speculating here but all that touching & in your face popping off is tolerable IF you know that person. What I think Nephew is trying to say is, I'm a private person, I'm just here to play and leave. A dude like that I will respect his space. I don't know him, I'm not touching him other than a handshake. People are built different. If someone beats me and starts yelling in my face, you had very well be a friend because if you're a stranger and you felt like that was permissable then I'll see your level 1 & raise you a level 3. You're getting the fade with the blend and I'm a quiet dude who respects everyone but I am from the block.
If you know that person and they’re cool with it *** I am close friends plenty of people who would still be pissed if I did that shit during a match, some people need as much energy to focus as possible
The wolfkrone clip is the most bs clip. That man came from a scene that loves talking that shit to you from the audience and he's on some shit about headphones
Back in the early 2000's, we had a local video game store that did monthly gaming tournaments. There was one guy who would legit knocked the controller out of my hand and turned the tv off during a match of Tekken 3. I think people like Mikehaze have always been around, but now it's easier to see who those people really are.
I like how you brought up the NBA/NFL examples, really interesting stuff. now this topic has me wondering if professional sports have "implicit" rules of conduct set up for both players and audience goers...
I have certainly had my fair share of tests of concentration as a fighting game player, and being able to focus with all of those distractions is a godsend.
The scene definitely needs to lean towards the raw side. Especially because we want E-Sports to be respected like regular sports where as we know there is a ton of crowd noise and trash talk. Newer players are trying to recreate their "at home on the couch" experience at a tournament, which is obviously dumb. Tournaments are just about who is the most skilled, its about who is the best COMPETITOR. If people don't like the tournament experience they can do it with their friends/online as a hobby.
There's hype, and there's literally sabotaging your opponent. They differ, and one is dishonest, unsportsmanlike, and kinda demonstrates that you don't believe you/your homie can do it with skills alone.
It's just different times, the new players didn't actually played on an arcade with all the people in their back, they're not use to it but it's a requirement for the job, I guess they'll get used to it eventually. The mikehaze thing tho that is actually physically harmful to the other player and I think that shouldn't be allowed
There's basically 3 categories here: 1) Environmental noise (crowd hype/other setups/etc) 2) Distractive nonsense (yelling in your opponents ear/active commentary) 3) Interactive conversation Nephew's vid was targeted at (3) while you primarily focused on (1) and (2). I'll focus on (3). The main thing here is that conversation beckons a response. They're not talking at you, they're talking to you. For many of us, I think this is how we casually play games with our friends. "Yo dude, sick combo!", "That's punishable, right?", "1 frame link coming up, hope you don't drop it!" These are things I'd say to my friends. Even if there are stakes in our casual ft10, it's someone I'm familiar with and the only sense of competition is rivalry. A real tournament isn't that. You're probably playing strangers. If you're a well-known player, you're probably playing strangers who *think they know you and think they're your friend* (see: parasocial relationships). I can see how immensely awkward it is to have a stranger attempting to converse with you while you're unable to leave and it breaks various social norms to just ignore them point blank. I can also sympathize with the many players who utilize tournaments as a way to expand their social circles and don't want it to feel different from hangin with friends at a house. In this scenario, headphones are the solution. If you have headphones in, you're telling people not to talk to you. It's acceptable to ignore them. That being said, I'm the worst kind of jerk to play against. I'll say things like "Btw, that's plus" and "Sick combo, hope you don't drop it" and "Isn't that move -6? Must've missed my punish." I throw out lots of misinformation to make my opponent hesitate/doubt. I don't think it's okay. Spent too long trollin my homies casually and then educatin them after matches. In a tournament setting, it's rude as hell.
I think one aspect not addressed here is the scale of noise from when it becomes isolated n tunneled from a singular source to when it becomes "white noise" from cumulative hype firing off from all angles such as the crowd, commentators, or even the opponent. I feel like it's worse when it's from a singular source n there's only one individual screaming vs when the entire room echos hype. The noise resonates n just gets drowned out, ironically
Real talk. Crowd gotta respect the boundary, cheering is cool and rooting for your homie is cool but don’t go attack people and screaming at the top of your lungs. Also no physical contact, big no no
Man I remember back in the days where throws in SF2, picking Rugal or doing Sub-Zero fatality infinite in MK2 would result in that person getting they shit rocked 😂
Just want to congratulate the dude for not beating the living shit out of the MF screaming in his ear during a money match, wherever you are, you are a saint, I don't care if the dude is IRL Hugo, I don't think I could hold myself
also, 8:50 When I accidentally instant killed Stickbug at Guilty Madness the crowd suddenly went crazy. I couldn't stop smiling for a good ten minuets. Easily one of the best experiences I had, and it was amplified so much by the crowd.
i think it varies from player to player if its just like a person or two talking, remember watching one dude beat gootecks n do sick oro combos while having a full on conversation with him but crowd reactions are a completely different thing players r gonna have to know how to deal with
I've had people going off behind me, cheering on my opponent at EVO and being rowdy, but that's the environment. It's not something I really do a lot, but I understand that this is the arena I am playing in, and as you mentioned, it's up to my ability to focus to get through it. I feel like if you can't, maybe this isn't the right hobby/profession for you. Even playing OG SFII in a dirty 7-11 in 1991, there was mad shit talk and a lot of fun, so maybe I'm just an old bastard and used to it.
I was a bit nervous when I first started going out to locals just cause I'm not the biggest social butterfly or anything, and I fall back on cracking jokes to diffuse a bit of that tension. This was pretty fucking awkward when I encountered people with this "don't talk to me" attitude. Hard to feel welcome when you're new and trying to fit in with a group of people and you get these tense ass responses or people looking at you like you're a fucking moron. Especially in casuals I'd just rather not play an opponent like this at all. In tournament I can respect the focus but at least in my experience most people who think this way are not even friendly about it. Gotta shout out though this guy I used to play who was one of the best in our area, he would talk between but not during matches, and if you failed to execute a piece of advice he gave you he would just shake his head in disappointment and give you the meanest punish he could dish out, god bless him.
I feel like Caba's instance is very different than the others. I also remember someone's wife shouting like crazy and every cpt mic could pick the noise up. I think it feels different in a stage when everybody is shouting than pools where someone specific does it. 2-3 people within a meter is hella more annoying than hype towards the stage. Also fchamp's example is hella intrusive, it could easily become a fist fight if it was a more muscular salty guy.
trash talk and hecklers have been a part of competition since the dawn of time. part of the game is adapting and overcoming these obstacles/distractions imo
i mean.... you not wrong but every one is difference to most players aren't into the non VG sports to again all might not grown with that type of stuff in terms of video games then all got to work on taking that stuff as with one offense of a certain type many might even want you banned if something wasn't taken outta context or was deemed "too harsh" or something MW2 lobbies ain't raise most now them lobbies were crazy pinnacle of gaming TOXIC on deck miss it to a degree but change is good and for the better so many with big twitch/RUclips's prob talking crazy back then too so yea..
I look at FGC like fight sports. In MMA the crowds are loud and corners are tough to hear. The fighters are talking mad shit to each other sometimes (like Nick or Nate Diaz). When I used to wrestle in high school you would say shit to the opponent while you were starting out, slapping their hands and head, sometimes hard... it was just part of the game. I think as long as your aren't shouting directly in the person's ear and just making comments about the game it is cool. Bring some earbuds or headphones. When I play friends I like to have an earbud in to listen to music and when I need to concentrate I don't say a word and just block out the other guy.
I think it's important not to draw arbitrarily specific boundaries on gray-area stuff. I'm reminded of the language of the 1964 US supreme court decision on the definition of pornographic material, "I know it when I see it." If it isn't /inarguably/ over the line, then it isn't over the line.
Yes, definitely put Majin Obama in a referee outfit and a whistle. Dole out those red cards! The penalty is an online set in Rev2 against someone on Wi-Fi on the other side of the Pacific. If you lose, you're banned from the tournament for life.
Technical fouls are an apt comparison. Pro athletes are expected to deal with noise, but a catcher isn't allowed to drop slurs before a batter swings, or call out the wrong pitch out loud. I'd give a TO discretion when it comes to bodily contact or personal space, or a disruptive crowd. I'd personally say, for players trash talk is ok between rounds. If you are mid-match, stfu. For the crowd, heckling is fine, but be prepared to be booted out for repeated attempts of targeted sabatoge. Props to Spooky for talking Wolfkrone down.
I got into the scene when i turned 21 because the only place to play near me is a barcade (the future) the collective feeling of watching a hype moment or making the crowd get hype is priceless.
As you said only in the arcades you had to deal with that trash talk,rub elbows,bump the cabinet,now with everything online no human contact or interaction people are not used to this trash talk or loud mouths. Different times ahead, every time old people like me is less every time at tourneys, so I don't see much of this anymore , times change. I dont like eSports approach, You can't control hype,you can't control crowds, as long is human interaction involved in a competition you need to keep you shi* together PRO or NOT this is not a perfect world
As soon as you bring basketball. It made me remember inter state high school tournaments . That shit was brutal . We specially had people on the bench to rough up the best opponent team players , we talk shit all the time like "don't worry this dude can't hit this shot " out LOUD . Good times. Sometimes we came this close to a brawl. But after the match.... It's all cool and we train 1v1 with the same guys at evening. Covid really makes me wanna play ball with my buds again
I feel like the crowd and commentators can keep the hype going during the match, and I dont care what people do after the match, but I dont want my opponent yelling in my ear, touching me, or shaking the set up during a match. Save it for after.
Loud and rowdy is awesome!!! Smack talk is an art. Screaming in ears is physical assault, could damage hearing. If a physical altercation happens in reaction to aggressive pop offs or what ever (using common sense of what could provoke violence) than both people should be considered at fault.
Smack talk is indeed an art form. Many of the new gen FGs have seen what they perceive as such (i.e. not what Pokchop has done) and think winning a set and popping off by getting up on your opponents' face is on some 'pinnacle' smack talk. Its a bit disheartening because you have other new gen guys like Smug and others who have shown how to pop off gracefully and regardless of how people may feel about your win, people still respect how you handled and reacted.
I'm not a confrontational person, and i dont shit talk, but i take it, and then talk my shit through my game... cause beating my roommates in smash with my homies in the background cheering their ass off was great. That kind of spirit gotta stay man
Those tiktoks are cursed
Dude is a nerd who needs a swirlie ASAP
98% of them are, sharpies are the only exception
"Don't touch people without consent" seems like a pretty obvious and enforceable rule.
There are many grey areas when it comes
To the human touch....
Such as
What if they are best friends? Or what if they are lovers?
You'd be surprised how many people have not learned that from their parents and they just go around touching everyone like they're their bro like man I've never seen you before wtf
@@thechugg4372 literally me before covid.
"don't talk to me without consent while we're playing"
@@MilkT0ast even if we’re fucking married, if I don’t want you to touch me, and you touch me, you are being an asshole. It’s not exactly complicated.
Crowd hype and shit talk between players is all good. Players from the other person's team or anyone really just screaming in your ear is absurd. Basically if someone's first instinct is to punch you, you've gone too far.
Back in the arcade days, if you threw your opponent in SF2, you were asking to get punched in real life.
The Nephew tiktoks were straight up persona 4 shadows. Shits cursed.
Capcom needs to ban Nephew for these skits
ban him for life
About screams: context matters - the melee thing was just straight up hurting the other player. Screaming loudly into another person ear can be damaging. A headbutt would probably been a nice defensive gesture.
The timing is important for players versus player interaction. As we see with classic sports: trash talk before and after the action is common and part of the game. However, most people are silent when the action happens.
Audience and crowd is different. These behaviours are mostly learned from other spectators or comes from local experience. We don't expect a snooker audience screaming the whole match. We do expect a soccer audience to be loud the whole time. The atmosphere and rhythm of the game "dictates" the behaviour of the audience. A calm, methodical and quiet game has an equally calm and quiet audience (golf, snooker). A loud and fast sport with possible lots of scrambles will have a loud and scramblish audience. I think nobody expects golf claps when 200lb dudes crash into each other in American football.
Fencing allows the audience a pause to react every 5-15 seconds. Judo has a similar rhythm, where people appreciate the action in silence until they can follow up with applause. When actions take longer the audience will have to react in real-time.
I guess some people want the fighting game audience to be more like Judo and fencing and others want them to be like wrestling.
that was brawl not melee
Catch Obama at EVO 2024 tossing out yellow flags at semi-finals. Get this man a ref shirt
alright lad, this is the year
he's esport with it now
You scream in my ear, you get this 10 hit combo IRL.
Doubt it. Wrinkle up the situation, and I'm grabbing the iron.
THIS DUDE’S DOING STRINGS!!!
Hit ‘em with the 1 frame unblockables 😂
@@ELGUAPOIV u scary
Man this video just reminded me how much I miss Chris Hu and team Rush Hour on commentary
gone but not 4gottn
What happened to Chris Hu?
@@cde8347 He has a wife and kid now so he's mostly an online monster these days
When he said the Starburst thing and you paused, I felt that
These fellas never played Marvel or Melty. Where you're playing against your opponent and his squad standing behind him yelling about how you're free.
0:40 you can practically see Obama grow grey hairs just by watching that vid
Dont talk mid match....Filipinochamp just entered the chat...
I thought of PokChop immediately.
@From Maui Justice for kaneblueriver!!!!
Fchamp vs Pokchop when. They be playing 2 games at once
@@madthrasher88 that would be funny as fuck to see
We can have pro fighters braking down their playstlye.
And psychologists breaking down the shit talking
I don't talk to people during tournaments, but if we're playing casuals, I'm going to be talking the whole time and having fun social interactions during the social activity. If I wanted to play against a person who I'm not interacting with, I'll stay online.
Getting hype at combo breaker and heckling juicebox screaming HE CAN SEE THE FRAMES in kof as his wife was death glaring anyone popping off is probably one of my favorite fgc moments. I can't imagine that not being okay.
Went to a smash tourney way back when Brawl was new and there was a player who would scream mad loud to distract his opponent. Wonder if it was this MikeHaze 🤔
number one unspoken rule of FGC is just dont ever put your hands on someone else, basically don't get physical. If someone is screaming at the top of their lungs in your ear, I think thats physical, you could be someone with tinnitus and that could actually hurt and leave your ears ringing.
but...
If im in tournament competition with money on the line and I anti-air you or some shit and say (not scream) "get out my airspace lil boy" or call you slow when you're not reacting to something mid round then it's on YOU as a competitor to not let me in your head and mentally affect you.
(for the record I dont talk during matches myself unless my opponent is aswell)
but that has nothing to do with the game tho, i get teabagging and shit within the game to bm, but how does external shit has anything to do with being good at the game, honest question
@@jigawatt7941 you're right it has nothing to do with the game, but it has everything to do with the nature of competition. Like Obama said in the video with the examples of NFL/NBA athletes, trash talking has nothing to do with their actual sport, but you can't enforce athletes to stay quiet during the game.
It's totally a "read the room" situation, very subjective, requires attention to nuance, etc. I actually think a little verbal psych out game can be acceptable, but it depends on who is playing and what the stakes are. As far as anything that isn't, like, televised or for a cash prize, I don't see general banter in a match being a problem. If a player has a situation where they need to concentrate, they can request to have their situation respected, and that can be upheld.
Honestly the ticktock bothered me so much more than anything else in the whole vid
Mad Credit to Majin for sitting through these awful Videos at least Twice lmaoo
Dude needs to collect hazard pay for that shit.
You get directly at my face and start yelling at me I'll take it as you're trying to start a fist fight, same if you're screaming at my ear. You can't have people acting as thugs and being respectful at same time, it's one or the other.
You obviously haven’t met Respectful Thugs
@@iorilamia
Because there's no such thing. You can't yell at someone's face respectfully. Fortunately for guys like FilipinoChamp and K-Brad, actual thugs or crazy people will never get far into tournaments, at least not to a point worth of talking shit to them.
If someone would scream or especially scream into my ear repeatedly... I would get up and walk away, because that guy sounds like spoiled brat who can't win otherwise.
at least the way I run things in my hs esports team is that both players should agree on some basic things (talking during the match, etc.), and we have a rule set in case the players are too awkward to speak to each other before the game. The crowd can get hyped, but no yelling things that could change the outcome (THATS PUNISHABLE, etc.) also, if a player has a problem with noise at the venue, it is their responsibility to bring headphones or whatever.
Big difference between crowd hype and cabba trying to make you lose your focus.
yeah i think the line is prob where your opponents mom is chasing you down and getting in your ear lol. my man ghosted her after too lol
I always thought I would be bothered by people yelling behind me because I'm pretty reserved in general, but somehow people yelling/cheering for their friend during my matches just made them more fun and exciting overall lmao, it felt like more was at stake.
I like to feel it even makes you go, "Oooh, they talking shit. Let me prove them different." If you got distracted but loss off some regular shit like not dropping a combo, you're just going to look more salty when you bring it up.
Any day that a MajinObama video gets uploaded is a blessed day. Man's damn eloquent.
Poor sportsmanship should not be promoted/endorsed by the community, period.
man, it'd be a real shame if legendary popoffs like Tokido's messatsu would never come to being because people are too scared to be DQ'd for "unsportsman-like" conduct. I feel like the communication between the players sets apart offline play and online (besides the latency, of course) and adds that extra depth. as you said, obama, the mental fortitude is a key part of a player's repertoire that can be trained.
all in all, good takes, good talk
I think a big factor into drawing "the line" its based on intent, its one thing to be hyped for you or your homies and feeling yourself... its another to "caba" it up. If you know what I mean. Now poping off to your opponent BEFORE or AFTER the match, im def down with especially if there is animosity or both are about it, now during the match... eh harder to call. Also yea that Justin shit is foul, but w/e.
EXCUSE YOU, I think you mean “orange starburst in a group of red ones”
I think he meant red because he took time to edit in a red starburst and wrote a script that said red but idk 😐
@@stopcryingalready I think it’s confusing because Red and Pink are awesome Starburst. They’re grouped together. Orange and yellow were separated and maybe some other color. I find it confusing he made red seem bad.
Best thing about this clip @15:20 is Joe, PR Rog and FChamp in the back
This should be a FGC creator roundtable discussion tbh
I don't mind shit talk but that screaming shit would have me at blows forreal
Red starburst in the pink ones was hilarious
This is the exact culture that got me into the FGC. I had been playing fighting games since the original SF2 but hadn't become aware of the FGC till SF4 and seeing videos like Daigo Jago and Combofiend vs anyone mvc3 and crowd reactions and EMP stories and madness and hype etc... That culture drew me in. But I also come from the Bronx, NY for my first 18 years and to me that era of FGC paralleled a lot of hiphop culture and battle rap culture and of all the sports was most like the NBA funny you use that example. I think Ultradavid wrote an article around that time of going to an FGC event and Esports event in the same weekend and the differences and yeah we were all hands on deck and stage and loud and in your face vs they had plexi glass and barriers between the fans and stages. He also noted the minority ratios were incredibly different at the time FGC vs Esports. Unfortunately, as more attempts at turning this into a business combined with new younger players who don't want anything to do with competitive live pressure from not only the fans but even their actual opponents. That part of what drew me in seems to have dissipated. Funny that as we police the culture seems that we also police more and more our in game creativity but thats a different topic haha.
Man you summed it up perfectly. That aspect of the FGC is going the way of the Dodo. And like Obama says without it the FGC stands to lose alot of what makes it unique.
I used to play melee competitively and would cover up my nose everytime I'd take a game off of somebody. They quit mid game lol!
During my childhood I tended to play fighting games alone. I just ran through arcade mode a bunch of times by myself because I didn't have anyone to play with.
I think the scarcity of interaction in this genre of clearly multiplayer games got me really talkative when I finally started sitting down with real people to play these games.
Talking to my opponents has developed into a bit of a habit and usually the other person will engage in the conversation since its usually not a serious match, so I'm surprised to see that there are some people who don't like casual conversation during casuals. I understand, but if I saw that the other person wasn't very responsive to conversation I would probably just get off and not want to play with them.
They're not wrong for wanting to focus or they might even have trouble focusing in general and talking makes the game unfun for them, but I don't want to play fighting games in silence. That may be what I signed up for when I was going through arcade mode, but after playing with another human being and shooting the shit, I'm not going back. It isn't how I want to play fighting games anymore.
As long as it's doesn't get physical or overtly personal, trash talk is love, trash talk is life (and this is coming from someone whose week to crowd heckling)
I know personally that when I went to CEO 2016 they put me in on stream for my first MK match on pools, and the guy I played against had his whole posse on the floor heckling me and yelling the entire time. It just feels bad when you're trying to focus on the game and you can hear guys actively making fun of you. If I was a true competitor of course I should've been able to shut that out and focus on my game, but I wasn't mentally tough enough and let the frustration get to me.
If you are a true competitor you should have the tools available in order to combat crowd noise. Be it headphones you brought with you or earbuds connected to your own phone music so you stay focused. Especially if the stakes are that high.
so when I went to smash N splash my boys knew I love hearing the hype behind me, so my boys where hyping me way the fuck up, I really think blocking out surrounding noise is apart of the tournament, but to me the line is straight at yelling in a players ears.
when i'm telling non fgc people about the games, i always tell em about Pokchop. Even if you barely know the game, and hell, many spectators do not, you can feel that energy and you can respond to a big personality.
Brilliant! Love how you had everything queued up. Much respect!
shit talking and tilt factor are part of the game
All these clips just put a huge smile on my face. One of the biggest reasons I love FGs
The mentality of "adapt" or "git gud" is often the hardest but in the long run easiest solution to your problems
I love how spooky handled that in his video
Wolfkrone was the lame kind of salt before he quit. Steady lame.
I was wrong TBH. That was a long time ago before I could afford to carry headsets around all the time. But it does make for funny tv to hear me yell at poor krone and kick him while hes down :p
@@teamspooky lol look at t he growth good stuff spooky. But yeah it was hilarious 😂
I mean I will let out a little “aah” if I get punished super hard just bc I (am) growing up in a scene where ppl talk constantly while they play. I mean my friends make fun of me for being too quiet!
I'm just speculating here but all that touching & in your face popping off is tolerable IF you know that person.
What I think Nephew is trying to say is, I'm a private person, I'm just here to play and leave.
A dude like that I will respect his space. I don't know him, I'm not touching him other than a handshake.
People are built different. If someone beats me and starts yelling in my face, you had very well be a friend because if you're a stranger and you felt like that was permissable then I'll see your level 1 & raise you a level 3. You're getting the fade with the blend and I'm a quiet dude who respects everyone but I am from the block.
If you know that person and they’re cool with it ***
I am close friends plenty of people who would still be pissed if I did that shit during a match, some people need as much energy to focus as possible
The wolfkrone clip is the most bs clip. That man came from a scene that loves talking that shit to you from the audience and he's on some shit about headphones
Back in the early 2000's, we had a local video game store that did monthly gaming tournaments. There was one guy who would legit knocked the controller out of my hand and turned the tv off during a match of Tekken 3. I think people like Mikehaze have always been around, but now it's easier to see who those people really are.
I like how you brought up the NBA/NFL examples, really interesting stuff. now this topic has me wondering if professional sports have "implicit" rules of conduct set up for both players and audience goers...
My head tilted with the red starburst comment too ngl
yea....like what's wrong with red starbursts lol. or why that analogy at all
@@Sune some just like to use food or candy it's the more easy to use or the best form of a analogy
@@M4TTYN makes sense to me. I guess the starbursts didn't have any special significance beyond just being a food to compare
I almost wish this video was about that red Starburst chicanery
The line between intensity and intent, is how I would have put it.
Nice I've been waiting for this to get uploaded
This topic makes me think of that code of conduct thing trying to codify things
I have certainly had my fair share of tests of concentration as a fighting game player, and being able to focus with all of those distractions is a godsend.
The scene definitely needs to lean towards the raw side. Especially because we want E-Sports to be respected like regular sports where as we know there is a ton of crowd noise and trash talk. Newer players are trying to recreate their "at home on the couch" experience at a tournament, which is obviously dumb. Tournaments are just about who is the most skilled, its about who is the best COMPETITOR. If people don't like the tournament experience they can do it with their friends/online as a hobby.
There's hype, and there's literally sabotaging your opponent. They differ, and one is dishonest, unsportsmanlike, and kinda demonstrates that you don't believe you/your homie can do it with skills alone.
It's just different times, the new players didn't actually played on an arcade with all the people in their back, they're not use to it but it's a requirement for the job, I guess they'll get used to it eventually. The mikehaze thing tho that is actually physically harmful to the other player and I think that shouldn't be allowed
There's basically 3 categories here:
1) Environmental noise (crowd hype/other setups/etc)
2) Distractive nonsense (yelling in your opponents ear/active commentary)
3) Interactive conversation
Nephew's vid was targeted at (3) while you primarily focused on (1) and (2). I'll focus on (3). The main thing here is that conversation beckons a response. They're not talking at you, they're talking to you. For many of us, I think this is how we casually play games with our friends. "Yo dude, sick combo!", "That's punishable, right?", "1 frame link coming up, hope you don't drop it!" These are things I'd say to my friends. Even if there are stakes in our casual ft10, it's someone I'm familiar with and the only sense of competition is rivalry. A real tournament isn't that. You're probably playing strangers. If you're a well-known player, you're probably playing strangers who *think they know you and think they're your friend* (see: parasocial relationships).
I can see how immensely awkward it is to have a stranger attempting to converse with you while you're unable to leave and it breaks various social norms to just ignore them point blank. I can also sympathize with the many players who utilize tournaments as a way to expand their social circles and don't want it to feel different from hangin with friends at a house. In this scenario, headphones are the solution. If you have headphones in, you're telling people not to talk to you. It's acceptable to ignore them.
That being said, I'm the worst kind of jerk to play against. I'll say things like "Btw, that's plus" and "Sick combo, hope you don't drop it" and "Isn't that move -6? Must've missed my punish." I throw out lots of misinformation to make my opponent hesitate/doubt. I don't think it's okay. Spent too long trollin my homies casually and then educatin them after matches. In a tournament setting, it's rude as hell.
The pop off is a right and privilege that cannot be taken away from the FGC it livens the scene
I think one aspect not addressed here is the scale of noise from when it becomes isolated n tunneled from a singular source to when it becomes "white noise" from cumulative hype firing off from all angles such as the crowd, commentators, or even the opponent. I feel like it's worse when it's from a singular source n there's only one individual screaming vs when the entire room echos hype. The noise resonates n just gets drowned out, ironically
Good point. It's like meditation.
“Don’t be rude”
“Don’t talk mid-match”
🤔🧐
Wut ?
Real talk. Crowd gotta respect the boundary, cheering is cool and rooting for your homie is cool but don’t go attack people and screaming at the top of your lungs. Also no physical contact, big no no
Man I remember back in the days where throws in SF2, picking Rugal or doing Sub-Zero fatality infinite in MK2 would result in that person getting they shit rocked 😂
Just want to congratulate the dude for not beating the living shit out of the MF screaming in his ear during a money match, wherever you are, you are a saint, I don't care if the dude is IRL Hugo, I don't think I could hold myself
Intentionally yelling directly into your opponent's ear is the line for me, more or less.
also, 8:50
When I accidentally instant killed Stickbug at Guilty Madness the crowd suddenly went crazy. I couldn't stop smiling for a good ten minuets. Easily one of the best experiences I had, and it was amplified so much by the crowd.
that smash clip got me bursting into treats :joy:
they wildin wtf homie hit the loud yell's like god damn they really different different huh? 😅😂
Nah, breh, red starbursts are gawd
i think it varies from player to player if its just like a person or two talking, remember watching one dude beat gootecks n do sick oro combos while having a full on conversation with him but crowd reactions are a completely different thing players r gonna have to know how to deal with
I've had people going off behind me, cheering on my opponent at EVO and being rowdy, but that's the environment. It's not something I really do a lot, but I understand that this is the arena I am playing in, and as you mentioned, it's up to my ability to focus to get through it. I feel like if you can't, maybe this isn't the right hobby/profession for you. Even playing OG SFII in a dirty 7-11 in 1991, there was mad shit talk and a lot of fun, so maybe I'm just an old bastard and used to it.
I was a bit nervous when I first started going out to locals just cause I'm not the biggest social butterfly or anything, and I fall back on cracking jokes to diffuse a bit of that tension. This was pretty fucking awkward when I encountered people with this "don't talk to me" attitude. Hard to feel welcome when you're new and trying to fit in with a group of people and you get these tense ass responses or people looking at you like you're a fucking moron. Especially in casuals I'd just rather not play an opponent like this at all. In tournament I can respect the focus but at least in my experience most people who think this way are not even friendly about it.
Gotta shout out though this guy I used to play who was one of the best in our area, he would talk between but not during matches, and if you failed to execute a piece of advice he gave you he would just shake his head in disappointment and give you the meanest punish he could dish out, god bless him.
I feel like Caba's instance is very different than the others. I also remember someone's wife shouting like crazy and every cpt mic could pick the noise up. I think it feels different in a stage when everybody is shouting than pools where someone specific does it. 2-3 people within a meter is hella more annoying than hype towards the stage. Also fchamp's example is hella intrusive, it could easily become a fist fight if it was a more muscular salty guy.
trash talk and hecklers have been a part of competition since the dawn of time. part of the game is adapting and overcoming these obstacles/distractions imo
i mean.... you not wrong but every one is difference to most players aren't into the non VG sports to again all might not grown with that type of stuff in terms of video games then all got to work on taking that stuff
as with one offense of a certain type many might even want you banned if something wasn't taken outta context or was deemed "too harsh" or something MW2 lobbies ain't raise most now them lobbies were crazy pinnacle of gaming TOXIC on deck miss it to a degree but change is good and for the better so many with big twitch/RUclips's prob talking crazy back then too so yea..
@@M4TTYN i feel you. maybe things really were just different in those Xbox live days
I look at FGC like fight sports. In MMA the crowds are loud and corners are tough to hear. The fighters are talking mad shit to each other sometimes (like Nick or Nate Diaz). When I used to wrestle in high school you would say shit to the opponent while you were starting out, slapping their hands and head, sometimes hard... it was just part of the game. I think as long as your aren't shouting directly in the person's ear and just making comments about the game it is cool. Bring some earbuds or headphones. When I play friends I like to have an earbud in to listen to music and when I need to concentrate I don't say a word and just block out the other guy.
I think it's important not to draw arbitrarily specific boundaries on gray-area stuff. I'm reminded of the language of the 1964 US supreme court decision on the definition of pornographic material, "I know it when I see it." If it isn't /inarguably/ over the line, then it isn't over the line.
Capcom should look to who was hurt to help decide what to do with unsportsmanlike conduct
Yes, definitely put Majin Obama in a referee outfit and a whistle. Dole out those red cards!
The penalty is an online set in Rev2 against someone on Wi-Fi on the other side of the Pacific. If you lose, you're banned from the tournament for life.
.hack// is such a good anime. Obamas background is godly.
The games were godlike, too. Shame CyberConnect decided to take the last fucking .hack game to PSP and never continued on the series again.
@@RaveSault I'm still mad we didn't get the Fighting game that was on ps3. Japanese only
i fkn love majin obama
I still laugh at the melee video, he's screaming because of the wobble. Lots of salty clips about the wobble tactic.
Filipino Champ got what was coming to him, especially how he treated others far more respectful.
Technical fouls are an apt comparison. Pro athletes are expected to deal with noise, but a catcher isn't allowed to drop slurs before a batter swings, or call out the wrong pitch out loud. I'd give a TO discretion when it comes to bodily contact or personal space, or a disruptive crowd. I'd personally say, for players trash talk is ok between rounds. If you are mid-match, stfu. For the crowd, heckling is fine, but be prepared to be booted out for repeated attempts of targeted sabatoge. Props to Spooky for talking Wolfkrone down.
I got into the scene when i turned 21 because the only place to play near me is a barcade (the future) the collective feeling of watching a hype moment or making the crowd get hype is priceless.
As you said only in the arcades you had to deal with that trash talk,rub elbows,bump the cabinet,now with everything online no human contact or interaction people are not used to this trash talk or loud mouths.
Different times ahead, every time old people like me is less every time at tourneys, so I don't see much of this anymore , times change.
I dont like eSports approach, You can't control hype,you can't control crowds, as long is human interaction involved in a competition you need to keep you shi* together PRO or NOT this is not a perfect world
As soon as you bring basketball. It made me remember inter state high school tournaments . That shit was brutal . We specially had people on the bench to rough up the best opponent team players , we talk shit all the time like "don't worry this dude can't hit this shot " out LOUD . Good times. Sometimes we came this close to a brawl. But after the match.... It's all cool and we train 1v1 with the same guys at evening. Covid really makes me wanna play ball with my buds again
Your shit is weak as all of your buddies. Screaming bitches isn't as cool as you think.
I feel like the crowd and commentators can keep the hype going during the match, and I dont care what people do after the match, but I dont want my opponent yelling in my ear, touching me, or shaking the set up during a match. Save it for after.
It’s like boxing and mma event when I think of an fgc event the crowds the two opponents facing each other that’s how I feel about it
That seasons beatings stream is still the best one I ever saw.
I think it is already weird how near the people are to you in basketball, I would be so stressed in a small field like that
This was an awesome and insightful video. Ty
Loud and rowdy is awesome!!! Smack talk is an art. Screaming in ears is physical assault, could damage hearing. If a physical altercation happens in reaction to aggressive pop offs or what ever (using common sense of what could provoke violence) than both people should be considered at fault.
Smack talk is indeed an art form. Many of the new gen FGs have seen what they perceive as such (i.e. not what Pokchop has done) and think winning a set and popping off by getting up on your opponents' face is on some 'pinnacle' smack talk. Its a bit disheartening because you have other new gen guys like Smug and others who have shown how to pop off gracefully and regardless of how people may feel about your win, people still respect how you handled and reacted.
I just want to say that this was a good video lmao. It really is a fucking gray area though man.
The real question is did larry bird make that free throw 21:17 ? love the video man keep up the good work
This is a fire video Obama keep em coming buddy
head to head setups solve quite a bit of these issues..... maybe have a 6 foot rule with spectators and players.
why did the editor just write "headphone warning" instead of pulling that db down a little.
I'm not a confrontational person, and i dont shit talk, but i take it, and then talk my shit through my game... cause beating my roommates in smash with my homies in the background cheering their ass off was great. That kind of spirit gotta stay man
Thanks for the headphone warnings.