From the shape of the blade, looks like a Green River knife, the Hunter or some times called the Fish knife. But not full tang. I've had that book for YEARS. and years, and yes, it is an excellent book.
The old Special knife scam used by stagecoach drivers on tourist for years! Think about it, do you really think Jim Baker would be so careless as to leave his knife anywhere? and if so don't you think the sheath would have stayed on his belt? How often do you think Antelope get harvested directly on the stage route, much less on one that you just happen to be friends with the driver? The same type that falls for this also buys a genuine Jesse James Pistol that his mother just found while cleaning his room. Mr. White was a walking wallet and an easy mark. That sheath is from the leather of the back boot on a Wells Fargo coach used to secure mail and luggage, they got used hard and replaced often thus providing scrap leather that ended up in the handicrafts of many bored stage stop owners like John (Jack) Clark as one of several stops operated by the Clark family The Stone Ranch Stage Station provided meals fresh mounts rest as well as good stories and special souvenirs.
Well, that's an interesting theory that I can't dispute. The sheath has no belt loop so was probably carried in a pouch or pocket. I'm no mountain man but I have lost or misplaced more knives in the last 70 years than I care to think about. Antelope (technically pronghorns) were common in the era, perhaps not much displaced by a daily stage run. They congregate next to the interstate today. Curious how you know the source of the leather in the sheath. I know the story of Jesse's multiple handgun.
@@evangreen9430 Here is what I can tell you, rubber tomahawks exist because tourist buy them, and earning a living and surviving is a part of life, maybe the central part. A knife and rifle in some hands means the tools that prevent death and make life, not something you misplace or forget. Many a crusader returned from the holy land with a sliver of olive wood and the belief they had a piece of the true cross, despite the fact that they got it from a Saracen peddler in the square. An authentic 1879 Wells Fargo stagecoach is going to be hard to come by, because the museum was closed permanently in September 2020, along with most other Wells Fargo Museums. If you locate one, examine the leather luggage boot against that sheath and you will see a resemblance. Stage station crafts and trench art are both born from boredom and a need to scratch an itch, trash is trash unless it is special trash, then it is special. I will add that I never saw a wagon train pass on fresh game, and wheel ruts in the mud scared game, the sound of a wagon wheel or stage wheel was a warning to game more than the steam whistle of the locomotive.
I would add if a knife isn't sharpened through mechanical means or those d****d modern pull throughs, just using hones, a stone and a strop the blades don't wear out fast, you can have a 30/40 year old knife used every day and the edge won't be much more worn than when it was new. A seasoned Mountain Man will know this and he wouldn't have had access to mechanical means very often anyway. A leather belt is your strop, if you want to process an animal before you have four legged company a hone was the way to go then and you can't get through a whole trapping season without a stone.
Many knives of pioneering/exploring/prospecting/trapping people have been altered and/or improvised by the user from materials at hand. Lots of old knives made from old files, saw blades, old broken knives/swords/scrap steel, etc. Not everyone back in the "old" days had access to factory made cutlery, or the funds to purchase a factory made knife. Probably the most factory made knives to make it to the west were brought to the fur rendezvous by traders and were bartered off for furs. Lots of old documentation and shipping manifests of hundreds of inexpensive butcher knives bought by traders and carried west for the fur trade era. They were essentially the same as modern day old hickory and russell green river knives available today. They're not as glamorous as many would like to think of, but that's what most of the early trappers and explorers had and carried as their do-it-all knives. Most had several with them
As a carpenter & joiner I have an attachment to my hammers (three in total for differing tasks) I would not swap one for an extremely expensive new one. You know every single mark on your tool and feel an affinity with it. That is not Jim Bakers knife IMO.
I know a relative of this man, Leighton Baker who owned the A.W. Petersons Gun Shop. He wrote a book on Jim Baker I have a copy autographed by the Author.
Evan, Thank you for your videos on the historical artifacts. Anything you chose to highlight will certainly be of interest to me. I am 78 years old and was born & raised in central & western Oklahoma surrounded by Indian reservations. I have always found their history to be a sad portion of American history. Again thanks for your work.
I used to have a hard-copy of that book. Got it from I think some kind of Field & Stream book club in about 1971. The only book I still have is a book from the 1920s which is animal tracks.
Fascinating artifacts with fascinating stories, Evan. Whatever you wish to present and discuss suits me; firearms, knives, or other historical artifacts. Your presentations are interesting and educational.
Copper in the sheath,shows extremely good condition, for being that old. It should have been way more oxidized, with all those years. That copper has only some patina, that can be formed in just a year or 2... It doesn't convinve me, that it's a reallly old knife, because back then, they used their knives a lot and always they show that use in their apperance. There were not any collectors, that kept their knives in pristine condition back then... They all used them and used them to the point, the blade became way smaller and funny looking shapes. This doesn't even have piting on the blade...I aint no expert, but I my experience, shows a different picture about old knives.
6:31 into video. I think it's a Nordic proverb. Something along the lines of, "He who has no knife, will soon have no life." So I can understand how a knife could have been so valuable to a person of that era. I myself have a treasure trove of knives for different tasks. If my Leatherman touches fluids for car or gun, I don't eat with it.
Thank you Evan for another interesting and educational video on historical artifacts from the most interesting era (for me anyway) of the northwest prairie and Rocky Mountain areas of our country. As always, very well presented, researched, discussed....and appreciated!
The second knife sure looks like a Hudson Bay knife. Or at least a descendent of the Hudson Bay company fur trappers knife of the earlier 1800s. Tom Hardy’s character in The Revenant carried one throughout the movie. And it looks almost exactly like the Condor knife company’s functional reproduction of the HB knife.
Thanks for the presentation. The second knife belonging to Mr. Alex Matt looks as though it could be a re-purposed scimitar (very large butcher knife). It has a rebuilt leather handle, and appears to have the front of the blade cut/removed. It is my understanding that longer institutional/ kitchen type knives were bought second hand and shortened for body carry across the body or on the hip. Think Nessmuk.
A fascinating story about a truly classic woodsman/mountainman knife. I had a very old relative who used to make his own knives, nothing as fancy as that first one but more like the second one. It seems to be a typical thing people did more of back in the day as a means to get something they wanted by using whatever bits and pieces they had available on hand.
Back then marbles was just getting established a great choice for a hunting knife back then,, today they are highly collectable, they made guns knives Hatchetts gun sights ectra a company with great history
Hi uk resident here. I have a Marble knife, handed down from grand parents, maybe even great grand parents. Origins unknown but I believe from the time of WW1. Got info stating it may have been made 1914. Has had the tip broken but very well repaired. Very fond of it but unfortunately we are unable to carry it in the UK. Still, takes me back to my childhood where I was told never to touch it as I used to sneak to the drawer where it was kept. Anyway just a little story...
I would bet that the bolster on the hunting knife is poured pewter. It was a standard option back then for knife bolsters and decorative rifle for end tips. Tin, antimony and possibly a little lead. I think it could have been made by melting a pewter cup or other vessel.
I don't know how to identify the material, but pewter is certainly an option. It seems harder than the lead that would have been used for casting bullets.
Interesting. Especially the big one. You can see the great many applications they could be used for. I live in New Zealand but have a keen interest in history. Over here I understand the Winchester 44-40 was used extensively for hunting right up until the 1930’s. thanks for sharing 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
Also true in the United States. Some say the .44-40 killed more deer than any other cartridge. I would probably vote for the .30-30, but an interesting opinion. The .44-40 was step up from its predecessor the .44 Henry rimfire.
@@evangreen9430 My Dad owned a 30-30. I suspect the reason was largely economical in New Zealand. I imagine a Winchester 94 in 30-30 would have been a lot more expensive than a 44-40. By the time the latter were out of fashion the 303’s started to show up anyway
The model of the second knife looks like the all purpose classic Hudson Bay. This original shape is produced nowadays by Condor Knives in two sizes with a thicker blade that chops also wood. A big knife that can replace a small outdoor ax. The steel of the blade is not very hard (Rockwell scale) but can be sharpened very easy.
How interesting to hear the tales and facts around these knives. I'm sure they used what was at hand to make repairs as needed. Sorting fact from fiction or story is quite a challenge. Thank you for sharing with us.
Them guy would love the knoves we own and make nowadays, we pay much more attention to detail and fit & finish and steel is some much higher in quality. ⚔️🐊⚔️ 🤺
I find it difficult to believe a true "mountain man" would ever abandon his knife. At 77, I still have my Boy Scout, Western L36, with original sheath.
I have about 30 Early Primitive Bowies and frontier knives some dating back to REV War. One of my knives came out of Colorado. That Baker knife’s construction style is from the right period, Early-mid 1800’s but the sheath is not. The other knife is interesting. The sheath is not Indian war period old. It is Made from modern factory processed leather.
Probably Even today, leather knife sheaths and gun holsters are a high wear item. I have several knives that I bought new with a new leather sheath and have had to replace with a new one or make a replacement. Old knives from the period might have been on their 5th or 6th sheath by the time they fall into a curator's hands.
It's possible I know of more than a few modern day hunters and campers that set a knife down and neglect to retrieve it and either go back to look, or write it off and obtain a new one
Holy crap this guy is boring me to tears. Its his tone and the speed at which he presents. Highly suggest someone take him to a Jr. College and enroll him in speech or public speaking courses....
I am sorry you don't care my style. I won a national public speaking contest in high school. Maybe I have forgotten what I learned. What do you suggest to improve my presentation?
@@wsmvolunteers8588 You are doing just fine. Orlosthedruid doesn't have to tune in if he/ she isn't happy with your efforts. BTW, the Jim Baker knife has a bolster made of pewter. A common thing on knives of the day. Thank you for your work.
Not only do I enjoy the subjects of your videos I enjoy your way of speaking.👍
Thank you. Some like it, some don't. Too old to change.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this program.
I love both firearms and edged weapons. Thanks for your videos.
From the shape of the blade, looks like a Green River knife, the Hunter or some times called the Fish knife. But not full tang. I've had that book for YEARS. and years, and yes, it is an excellent book.
Great videos, I would love having your job. It's always a pleasure seeing the historical items related to the old west
The old Special knife scam used by stagecoach drivers on tourist for years! Think about it, do you really think Jim Baker would be so careless as to leave his knife anywhere? and if so don't you think the sheath would have stayed on his belt? How often do you think Antelope get harvested directly on the stage route, much less on one that you just happen to be friends with the driver? The same type that falls for this also buys a genuine Jesse James Pistol that his mother just found while cleaning his room. Mr. White was a walking wallet and an easy mark. That sheath is from the leather of the back boot on a Wells Fargo coach used to secure mail and luggage, they got used hard and replaced often thus providing scrap leather that ended up in the handicrafts of many bored stage stop owners like John (Jack) Clark as one of several stops operated by the Clark family The Stone Ranch Stage Station provided meals fresh mounts rest as well as good stories and special souvenirs.
Well, that's an interesting theory that I can't dispute. The sheath has no belt loop so was probably carried in a pouch or pocket. I'm no mountain man but I have lost or misplaced more knives in the last 70 years than I care to think about. Antelope (technically pronghorns) were common in the era, perhaps not much displaced by a daily stage run. They congregate next to the interstate today. Curious how you know the source of the leather in the sheath. I know the story of Jesse's multiple handgun.
@@evangreen9430 Here is what I can tell you, rubber tomahawks exist because tourist buy them, and earning a living and surviving is a part of life, maybe the central part.
A knife and rifle in some hands means the tools that prevent death and make life, not something you misplace or forget. Many a crusader returned from the holy land with a sliver of olive wood and the belief they had a piece of the true cross, despite the fact that they got it from a Saracen peddler in the square. An authentic 1879 Wells Fargo stagecoach is going to be hard to come by, because the museum was closed permanently in September 2020, along with most other Wells Fargo Museums. If you locate one, examine the leather luggage boot against that sheath and you will see a resemblance. Stage station crafts and trench art are both born from boredom and a need to scratch an itch, trash is trash unless it is special trash, then it is special. I will add that I never saw a wagon train pass on fresh game, and wheel ruts in the mud scared game, the sound of a wagon wheel or stage wheel was a warning to game more than the steam whistle of the locomotive.
Museums love free stuff.
Especially because we no longer have funds to purchase items.
Maybe do a DNA-Test?
I would add if a knife isn't sharpened through mechanical means or those d****d modern pull throughs, just using hones, a stone and a strop the blades don't wear out fast, you can have a 30/40 year old knife used every day and the edge won't be much more worn than when it was new. A seasoned Mountain Man will know this and he wouldn't have had access to mechanical means very often anyway. A leather belt is your strop, if you want to process an animal before you have four legged company a hone was the way to go then and you can't get through a whole trapping season without a stone.
Many knives of pioneering/exploring/prospecting/trapping people have been altered and/or improvised by
the user from materials at hand. Lots of old knives made from old files, saw blades, old broken knives/swords/scrap steel, etc.
Not everyone back in the "old"
days had access to factory made cutlery, or the funds to
purchase a factory made knife.
Probably the most factory made knives to make it to
the west were brought to the
fur rendezvous by traders and
were bartered off for furs.
Lots of old documentation and
shipping manifests of hundreds of inexpensive butcher knives bought by traders and carried west for the fur trade era.
They were essentially the same as modern day old hickory and russell green river knives available today.
They're not as glamorous as
many would like to think of,
but that's what most of the
early trappers and explorers
had and carried as their
do-it-all knives. Most had
several with them
Everything you said is true. Thank you for the comment and great information.
As a carpenter & joiner I have an attachment to my hammers (three in total for differing tasks) I would not swap one for an extremely expensive new one. You know every single mark on your tool and feel an affinity with it. That is not Jim Bakers knife IMO.
I know a relative of this man, Leighton Baker who owned the A.W. Petersons Gun Shop. He wrote a book on Jim Baker I have a copy autographed by the Author.
Evan, I envy your job! All of the items are very interesting, moccasins, guns , knives it doesn't matter!
Thank you very much for showing us these beautiful pieces!! Excellent vid!
Greetings from Germany
Thank you for your support from Germany.
Evan, Thank you for your videos on the historical artifacts. Anything you chose to highlight will certainly be of interest to me. I am 78 years old and was born & raised in central & western Oklahoma surrounded by Indian reservations. I have always found their history to be a sad portion of American history. Again thanks for your work.
I used to have a hard-copy of that book. Got it from I think some kind of Field & Stream book club in about 1971. The only book I still have is a book from the 1920s which is animal tracks.
Fascinating artifacts with fascinating stories, Evan. Whatever you wish to present and discuss suits me; firearms, knives, or other historical artifacts. Your presentations are interesting and educational.
Thanks, Noah.
Interesting knifes,plain but obviously very practical and useful👌
If Jim Baker actually skinned out an antelope with the knife, wouldn’t the original sheath be on his belt?? He only left the knife behind.
The sheath doesn't have a belt loop so the knife was probably carried in a pouch or bag.
Copper in the sheath,shows extremely good condition, for being that old. It should have been way more oxidized, with all those years. That copper has only some patina, that can be formed in just a year or 2... It doesn't convinve me, that it's a reallly old knife, because back then, they used their knives a lot and always they show that use in their apperance. There were not any collectors, that kept their knives in pristine condition back then... They all used them and used them to the point, the blade became way smaller and funny looking shapes. This doesn't even have piting on the blade...I aint no expert, but I my experience, shows a different picture about old knives.
another great history Friday with Evan - Thank you!
6:31 into video. I think it's a Nordic proverb. Something along the lines of, "He who has no knife, will soon have no life." So I can understand how a knife could have been so valuable to a person of that era. I myself have a treasure trove of knives for different tasks. If my Leatherman touches fluids for car or gun, I don't eat with it.
I’d be interested in any old west artifacts to be honest, this was a really interesting video
Excellent presentation. Very thoughtful.
Thank you Evan for another interesting and educational video on historical artifacts from the most interesting era (for me anyway) of the northwest prairie and Rocky Mountain areas of our country. As always, very well presented, researched, discussed....and appreciated!
Great video. Please make more knife videos. What happened to the trade knives of the 1700s?
The second knife sure looks like a Hudson Bay knife. Or at least a descendent of the Hudson Bay company fur trappers knife of the earlier 1800s. Tom Hardy’s character in The Revenant carried one throughout the movie. And it looks almost exactly like the Condor knife company’s functional reproduction of the HB knife.
Thanks for the presentation. The second knife belonging to Mr. Alex Matt looks as though it could be a re-purposed scimitar (very large butcher knife). It has a rebuilt leather handle, and appears to have the front of the blade cut/removed. It is my understanding that longer institutional/ kitchen type knives were bought second hand and shortened for body carry across the body or on the hip. Think Nessmuk.
I've always like the Nessmuk design but never owned one.
A fascinating story about a truly classic woodsman/mountainman knife. I had a very old relative who used to make his own knives, nothing as fancy as that first one but more like the second one. It seems to be a typical thing people did more of back in the day as a means to get something they wanted by using whatever bits and pieces they had available on hand.
Back then marbles was just getting established a great choice for a hunting knife back then,, today they are highly collectable, they made guns knives Hatchetts gun sights ectra a company with great history
Awesome thing you do sir.
Thank you for the comment.
Nice
Thank You 😊
Thanks Evan.
Hi uk resident here. I have a Marble knife, handed down from grand parents, maybe even great grand parents. Origins unknown but I believe from the time of WW1. Got info stating it may have been made 1914. Has had the tip broken but very well repaired. Very fond of it but unfortunately we are unable to carry it in the UK. Still, takes me back to my childhood where I was told never to touch it as I used to sneak to the drawer where it was kept. Anyway just a little story...
I have a couple of newer Marble knives, excellent quality. Thank you for the story of yours. Sorry for the restrictions in your country
This guy sounds like Ron Swanson
I would bet that the bolster on the hunting knife is poured pewter. It was a standard option back then
for knife bolsters and decorative rifle for end tips. Tin, antimony and possibly a little lead. I think it could have been made by melting a pewter cup or other vessel.
I don't know how to identify the material, but pewter is certainly an option. It seems harder than the lead that would have been used for casting bullets.
Describes an act of genocide "kinda sad" oof
wonderful history and greetings from argentina💪👍
The bright white background is painful.
Thanks for the comment. Check our more recent videos. We are now using a blue background and a blue cloth on the table. I hope you like it.
Wonder about the hardness of the steel. Would it snap/break if it were to be bent or would it be "soft" enough to bend and how much?
I don't know as we do not do anything to alter the condition of the knife, such as bending or testing hardness.
Interesting. Especially the big one. You can see the great many applications they could be used for. I live in New Zealand but have a keen interest in history. Over here I understand the Winchester 44-40 was used extensively for hunting right up until the 1930’s. thanks for sharing 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
Also true in the United States. Some say the .44-40 killed more deer than any other cartridge. I would probably vote for the .30-30, but an interesting opinion. The .44-40 was step up from its predecessor the .44 Henry rimfire.
@@evangreen9430 My Dad owned a 30-30. I suspect the reason was largely economical in New Zealand. I imagine a Winchester 94 in 30-30 would have been a lot more expensive than a 44-40. By the time the latter were out of fashion the 303’s started to show up anyway
Very interesting. Does the museum have other knives that are not connected to specific people? I’d like to see common blade patterns of the 1800s.
The model of the second knife looks like the all purpose classic Hudson Bay. This original shape is produced nowadays by Condor Knives in two sizes with a thicker blade that chops also wood. A big knife that can replace a small outdoor ax. The steel of the blade is not very hard (Rockwell scale) but can be sharpened very easy.
How interesting to hear the tales and facts around these knives. I'm sure they used what was at hand to make repairs as needed. Sorting fact from fiction or story is quite a challenge. Thank you for sharing with us.
Them guy would love the knoves we own and make nowadays, we pay much more attention to
detail and fit & finish and steel is some much higher in quality. ⚔️🐊⚔️ 🤺
11:14
It looks like the Condor Moonshine Knife
and older version,maybe the Moonshiner was model after that old blade 😊🎯😊
Extremly interesting! Saluti dall’Italia!
Interesting stories from the past. Thank You for that. 😊
I find it difficult to believe a true "mountain man" would ever abandon his knife. At 77, I still have my Boy Scout, Western L36, with original sheath.
I don't know the truth of the story. I have lost or misplaced more knives in the last 70 years than I care to think about.
I have about 30 Early Primitive Bowies and frontier knives some dating back to REV War. One of my knives came out of Colorado. That Baker knife’s construction style is from the right period, Early-mid 1800’s but the sheath is not. The other knife is interesting. The sheath is not Indian war period old. It is Made from modern factory processed leather.
Probably
Even today, leather knife sheaths and gun holsters are
a high wear item. I have several knives that I bought
new with a new leather sheath
and have had to replace with
a new one or make a replacement.
Old knives from the period
might have been on their
5th or 6th sheath by the time
they fall into a curator's hands.
I mentioned in the video that the sheath is repurposed from another source.
Every thing is utilitarian
Liked the video
thanks for sharing.
6:55 why not
So that guy lost his knife AND his sheath? Calling bs on that story
It's possible
I know of more than a few
modern day hunters and
campers that set a knife down
and neglect to retrieve it and
either go back to look, or
write it off and obtain a new one
The sheath does not have belt loops.
That large knife looks like the Condor Hudson Bay.
Condors knife is inspired by the old hunters knives. Its specifically inspired by the Hudson bay pattern like the name implies
No
@@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850 looks like. Yes
Sorry I can't stand this guy's pompous attitude.
Holy crap this guy is boring me to tears.
Its his tone and the speed at which he presents.
Highly suggest someone take him to a Jr. College and enroll him in speech or public speaking courses....
I am sorry you don't care my style. I won a national public speaking contest in high school. Maybe I have forgotten what I learned. What do you suggest to improve my presentation?
@@wsmvolunteers8588 You are doing just fine. Orlosthedruid doesn't have to tune in if he/ she isn't happy with your efforts. BTW, the Jim Baker knife has a bolster made of pewter. A common thing on knives of the day. Thank you for your work.
@@Troy440Dodge Thanks for your support and info on the knife. If I didn't have a thick skin, I wouldn't be on the internet.
Druid….. show everyone how it should be done. Then go AWAY!.