No he won't take his channel down.stop feeling threatened and stand on your grounds. People want to hear what Corey is saying. Corey your wife is a wise humble woman.🙌🏾💖
Corey it's the same way I feel about telling u the church will go thru the seven year period. But my time will come, and u will be the guy that's getting talked about for teaching revelation wrong.
The promise of everlasting life is inherent in the Gospel. Once we are secure in the Father’s, the Son’s, and sealed by His Spirit, we serve Him because we are saved, not to be saved or to stay saved.
@@KCRookie show me in Scripture where we can forfeit our salvation? The premise of that statement is implying we save ourselves. Salvation is a gift that is acquired. If the gift is acquired how can you then lose it from the one who is supposed to be saving you? Wouldn’t that make Yah untruthful?
You need to realize your conflation of 'losing' salvation with 'forfeiting' salvation... You need to realize this mistake to at least engage the point of disagreement in the debate, bcuz you're simply barking into wind otherwise
Those who've sat in churches that teach that one can lose their salvation have a hard time understanding that we can not. I was one of those who fought tooth and nail until I kept listening to the other side points. I had to trust the text and not what I was taught as a child in church. Thats the key, I believe, with a lot of saints who have a hard time believing OSAS. Trust the text!!! If you are sheep, you are SEALED by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
If we can loose our salvation how would we know when it is lost and how do we know when we get it back. What role then does the Holy Spirit play if we can loose it.
Agreed. And for him to say that to him it doesn't matter one way or the other, he sure was vested in arguing his point and not being willing to listen to the context of what Corey was saying. You know what they say.. Some people listen to hear others listen for their time to talk and never hear what was said.
@@catholictruth102 even though it's proven right over and over? Hard head it's only doing u harm not us, knowing we are forever kept by our Father!! Is what makes us happy and less stressed
@@catholictruth102 He clearly did . All who belongs to Him. (If Jesus saves you through his finished work then you will always be saved ) because if His grace and faith , trust a dependency on him (: He gives eternal life now. You are holy , blameless, set apart . He’s our judge and mediator .
@@demetriushall1810 Jesus Himself taught that branches in Him (which signifies believers) can be cut off if they don’t produce fruit. *John 15:1-2* “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.”
Works based salvation is actually not doing the works Christ asks us to do for others because it’s ME focused (my salvation, my rightness, my whatever)
BUT…..salvation is based on a work that HE did on our behalf and the fruits of that is evident in those who He has called from “before the foundations of the earth.” (Eph 1:4-6; Romans 8:28-30). John 10:27-28 NASB95 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; [28] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
We get what we believe about God and salvation from the scripture, we should not just make up something. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The description the bible gives of working for salvation is if you can boast (Say you did it)
I think this verse support Corey point (1 JOHN 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us.)
So you think this means that people can't leave the faith for other reasons? In other words, the only reason people "leave" is because they were never believers in the first place?
@@catholictruth102 You actually affirm Corey’s point! Luke 8:13 shows that the stony heart/ground are not true sheep! Why? Because under the new covenant, God removes stony hearts-“This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more” (Hebrews 10:16-17). “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.” Ezekiel 36:26 KJV. Stony hearts are unconverted hearts, not true sheep!
Those who believe you can lose your salvation are prideful and believe they can save their selves or must do good in order to be save. I put my faith in Christ and him alone for my salvation I am a sinner with or without him but with him I am saved by grace and faith alone 💪🏾
Amen. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I believe that after a person makes the choice to accept Jesus, accept the Gospel, and accept that Jesus died and was raised from the dead 3 days later, has eternal life. If a person sins after that they are still saved but they should seek repentance to get themselves realigned in God's grace. The whole belief of losing salvation is not biblical. The righteous man will fall 7 times. We fail God every day, by thought, by breath, by action, and the only unforgivable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus will leave the 99 sheep to go after the 1 that wondered because his sheep are always his sheep. No one is beyond saving unless they continually reject Jesus and God to the point of death. Then it will be too late. I pray everyone who sees this video accepts and follows Jesus while there is still time.
Not "Accepting" the gospel, but believing the gospel and through confession; "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9-10). Simon the Sorcerer heard and professed the gospel or "accepted it" but was not saved...his heart was not right and he actually had the gospel preached to him. Conversely, opposed to an emotional experience whereby some think they are "saved". This latter is the same tactic a lot of churches use with the "call to the front". They tell people to accept Jesus in their heart...then have them fill out a card in a back room somewhere or maybe talk to some counselor (in some cases) and then tell them "Congratulations, you're saved". But if you ask many of those folks what the Gospel is and what does salvation mean, they could not tell you. They are only their as a result of emotional agitation and not as a result of gospel proclamation....
Jesus said in Luke 23:43 (NIV), "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise. When did he become a sheep? The works on the cross speaks volumes and give great understanding 🙌🏾💖
So now we have Christians in the internet debating the word of God. How is this soul winning? Please tell me because I’m utterly confused by this foolishness.
Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak, and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:4.......Numbers 23:19" God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
That guy goes back to the old fall back on........to try to support their once saved always saved thinking.......well..... if they fall back.........backslide........well they just say they werent really saved to begin with.........my my my
My opinion is this .......DONT BE CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THIS SCHOLARISTIC INTELLECTUAL MESS ........IN MY OPINION CAUSING CONFUSION.......STICK WITH THE HOLY BIBLE THAT WE ALREADY .......IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TRANSLATED FOR OUR SALVATION.......PLAIN AND SIMPLE
Absolutely ........you will never perish .......as Gods word says........but GOD GIVES US ENOUGH COMMOM SENSE TO KNOW THAT WE CAN BACKSLIDE..........THE WORD BACKSLIDING IN MY OPINION........WOULD HAVE NO REASON FOR BEI G IN GODS WORD........IF YOU COULDNT BACKSLIDE AFTER BEING SAVED.........YOU HAVE TO SAVED........OR YOU CANNOT BACKSLIDE........COMMON SENSE.......
St. Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. St. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
“Depart from me I never knew you” would not hit the same / hold the same weight to a ‘former believer’ if one could just reply to Jesus “When I was a sheep you knew me and i knew you, your words not mine”
Jesus said "I NEVER knew you". He could have said I don't know you anymore, I used to know you, or even I don't know you. Instead He said I NEVER knew you.
Corey I love the what you said in closing about the confidence and the love for Christ because that’s exactly how it made me feel once I changed my mind. I am a pastor and always believed that we can loose our salvation.
Isn’t perishing synonymous with leaving God? To be away from God is to be alienated from God…alienation from God is death? So if the sheep leave, that is the same as perishing which would mean that they can’t?
@@Hakeem597 You are making a categorical fallacy: Yes, separation from God is referred to as death; but that is not always equivalent to the eternal death of a person who is not in Christ when their temporal life comes to an end. If you try to say that they are one and the same, then you must also concede that the elect are never born in sin.
I don't know what AK's issue is. Anyway, we can hope he comes around. Thanks for giving a mention to the Novum Testamentum Graece. I use it to look up the Greek in my BDAG. I recommend both works, in case there is someone who does not have them.
His comment about this guy being a Calvinist and this informing his interpretation of the Greek is definitely NOT stupid! It's the crux of the argument, because he brings calvinistic presuppositions to Jesus' statetment.
Corey, you wanted me to find the video. Here it is: In your video with JP, you said, "the rule states you cannot later on walk away." The "rule" you are referring to is the emphatic negation. You know that you think the EN is sufficient to say the sheep will always be sheep (which it isn't). That is your logical inference from it. That is what you NEED for OSAS to be proven from it. That is what I and the scholars I provided refute. When you understand that, you will understand my point.
Does the rule, in John 10:28, allow for any possibility of perishing for someone who has been given eternal life? In other words, is there any means or manner whatsoever that someone can go from being alive eternally, to not alive?
@AKRichardson - If you believe that a saved person can lose their salvation then describe *the process* by which they can do so, using scripture that you think affirms that. After all, that would be the most important thing to know to avoid for all believers. Hebrews 7:23-28 depicts the perfection of Christ's priesthood, and how it covers all past, present, and future sins. If a believer's last act on earth is sinful - it's atoned for! And so sin cannot separate a believing one from God and Christ. And since he is still in Christ and still washed then he has the Holy Spirit. And as John 14:26 shows, He always teaches us and reminds us of Christ so that ignorance or bad teaching cannot lead us away from Christ. And so like John 14:16 affirms, He is with us forever. So future sin can't do it, and ignorance can't do it, and bad teaching can't do it. What can? There is a process affirmed in the word which affirms the OSAS view of John 10:27-30. Not to mention the text literally says it is impossible for the sheep to ever perish.
@@andrewmiles2370 Yes by no longer believing. Adam and Eve had everlasting life before they sinned (because death was the result of sinning), but they lost it.
Speaking of linguistics, translations, or transliterations in today's day and age there's software available to help anyone with that and a lot of its free. Now as far as getting a scholar goes the truth of a matter would simply be the truth regardless of accolades. Here's what a PHD having Scholar told me once," the first person to ever receive a degree, got it from someone who didn't have one," Now I'm not anti edification and accolades but ,"knowledge puffs up but love builds up". Shalom!!!
Exactly … and it is the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to the scriptures and teaches us … How did all the people in the ages before come to salvation without the apps and books and translations ?! So silly
As the Church is having debates, people are going to hell. We have bigger fish to fry. He called us to be fishermen of men. We would rather see the saved sanctified than the list saved. Trust the Spirit to teach the brethren, and if a brethren disagrees with you, there is a good chance you will not change their mind. May the grace of God give us eyes to see a bigger picture!!!
This is why you need to know what the word actually is saying, do you think God is missing out on sheep he could have because of us? Everyone who goes to hell deserves to be there because of the sin they committed and the rejection of Jesus.
@kgar5String understand the churches purpose. The purpose of humanity physically is also what we do spiritually. Be fruitful multiply subdue replenish and exercise dominion. Whoever wants to set in a room and play theologian to me is watching the world go by. Get in this world and be a light. Let folks eat some fruit off your tree. The church in Acts was active, moving, demonstrating the power of God and the church multiplied.
Ya, I don't think you're in danger of losing your channel. You listen to enough of Richardson you might be in danger of losing your mind, but not your channel.
Jesus said in John 8:31 to those which believed on Him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed. I believe that His sheep will continue and sadly those who are not won't.
He also said branches in Him that don’t produce fruit will be cut off (John 15:1-2). One cannot be in Christ if they’re an unbeliever, so this is clearly speaking of believers.
@GiftofGod289 That’s false and unscriptural. And nowhere do any of those verses say “belief alone.” *1 John 2:4* “Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments *is a liar,* and the truth is not in him,” *Revelation 21:8* “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, *and all liars,* their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Cory, you believe one save. I always say it's okay. Somebody believe Different? You can agree to disagree, it's okay. Titus, chapter 3 verse 9. And second Timothy, 2 verse 23. Stop getting your Self all worked up. God bless you. Love you, brother, Corey.🙂
Problem is you don't know if you are a sheep - until the Judgement. Some who were convinced they were sheep are no longer following the Shepherd. So OSAS is an academic argument. You might as well assume you can lose your salvation since you have to Persevere anyways.
When u ask who are the real sheep to me u are saying u don't know what makes a person a child of God. U first need to understand how to test the Spirit of a person and 1 John 4:1-3 tells u how to do exactly that try the spirit of an individual to see if the Spirit of God is in them, if the Spirit of God is in them they are born again, this is how u try the spirit of a man.
@smartchristians Will be saved. Future, passive, indicative. If someone enters by Him, He is a sheep, He Will BE SAVED. It's not of our own doing(active). John 10:9 NKJV [9] I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
@@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg oh I agree, I was just saying that’s probably why the other guy didn’t agree. I’m reading commentary on Romans 4 from Logos, I highly recommend reading it. Being raised Catholic I have to really push myself to Not rely on myself and learn to just Trust Him, I want to be perfect Now and honestly should be a lot more than I am now. Oh how I wish we had these tools back in the 80’s. Take advantage of them while you can, I don’t know how much longer they’ll be available. But thank God Jesus said my words will never pass away. 😉🙏
You can never lose your salvation, because when you get saved, you literally and physically get baptized by the Holy Spirit,, Corey you forgot to mention that part. What's it mean to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, it means that God's spirit dwells in you and guides you. That poor guy's soul is in trouble, he's not in peace,, that the Lord provides us with that wonderful peace and assurance.. I am His and He is mine. He's not listening nor trusting in God's word! 😢
St. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. St. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
I mentioned this on the channel that this video was originally on so I’ll say it here as well Cory, I believe you misunderstood what AK’s argument was, either that or you didn’t want to see it because he agreed with you that the sheep will never perish, but his argument was that your inference of (the sheep will never perish means that the sheep will never fall away is faulty) and at first I didn’t get it but after really listening and trying to understand his point this is what it was and what I agree with. I don’t think you handled the debate well, especially when you weren’t simply answering his yes and no questions, which I thought looked bad. I don’t think either side WON the debate per se, but I think AK handled himself better simply because when he asked you clear questions you answered it in a round about way, but when you asked him questions he answered them responsively and without hesitation.
If the possibility of sheep ever perishing is eliminated (according to the Grammar) Then if someone were to bring up the possibility of sheep walking away, or stop believing, then those possibilities are also negated. When Jesus says it's "Impossible" then it is Impossible, no matter what or how many scenarios you come up with. I understood his arguments well. He simply doesn't understand what the greek is saying. Jesus already described what His sheep will do and how they will behave. There is no room to state Jesus was wrong and sheep will stop following.
@@smartchristians Thanks for responding Cory, appreciate it sir. I just want to say that I agree with you 100%, it was actually your exposition of the Old Testament atonement system and how Jesus fulfills the system fully that shot my tradition through the foot and blew up what I had been taught for the entirety of my life. I agree that the verse and contextually all of John 10 shows and states how the sheep will respond and act and the state of the sheep. There is no argument to be had against it. So to clarify are you saying that the Greek double negative that strongly shows that the sheep will not perish ALSO states and/or implies that the sheep will also not fall away? I don’t know Greek, not yet anyway, on my seminary journey, but anyway, is that what the Greek means in this instance: not only that the sheep will not perish, but also that they will not fall away or turn away or walk away?
I agree with you about AK's straightforward answers verses Cory's round-about answers, but I think AK could have handled Cory's answers as "I take that as a YES" or "...NO" and Cory could have agreed or disagreed.
Also, you are one of the few who seems to have tried to understand AK's position. AK was focused on saying that the "emphatic negation" in Jn 10:28 wasn't sufficient to prove OSAS. AK's analogy about Hobby Lobby was spot on, logically.
Critically, that passage does not say, “if you want to be saved, keep my commandments.” Discipleship and salvation are different. How to be saved: Acts 16:30-31: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
They always misunderstand how we become sheep. John 1:13 New International Version 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Saying a sheep can perish IF they stop being sheep IMPLIES they were once sheep. You can't stop being something if you weren't first said thing. Hence, people who say you can stop being sheep are indeed stating a sheep can perish...that's contradictory to what Jesus specifically says. I don't get why that's missed by them.
I'm watching the replay. And the thing that i get from those people is they are trying to find why evil, mistakes , wrongdoings and just bad people be good one day and bad the next. Because if God give choices & forgiveness why would the " world" be temping... as if sin doesn't confuse with conflict. The difference would be the heart, trust and belief. The Faith
The view that a person can never loose their salvation is a false assumption and a misunderstanding of scripture. Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 12:31. Apostacy is a forever sin subject to the second death.
Jesus couldn't change the minds of the Temple Priests and Jesus authored the book. He never argued or try to convince them because they were convinced they were right. It was life and death to them. For this guy, Corey you cannot change this man's heart. Unless he repents, he will go to the grave with his biases.
“If you could lose your salvation, you would. How arrogant do you have to be to say “yeah I could lose my salvation, but I haven’t yet” ? You probably just did.”
Corey says "a double negation by itself doesn't negate anything." But, Corey, of course you know we are talking about the EN with Perish. Neither I, nor the scholars I provided, were talking about the EN as two words without regard to the rest of the clause. You know that.
Corey, I can't stop watching you...its like a train wreck. You are so passionate about your position, that you bulldog your thoughts on to whoever you are debating. You do this every time. The other side gets to start their thoughts, but you very seldom let them finish without breaking in. You say that they can not see past their opinions to even hear the other side, but you don't have the self awareness to see that you are most guilty of this yourself.
Eternal Security for the believer, yes. Absolute eternal security is not a biblical concept. Refuted by King Saul, Judas Iscariot, ( you can go to my response on your Judas video),Hebrews 3:12, 6:1-8, and 10:26-31, all speaking to Hebrew Christians, which I believe you correctly point out. Also look at Galatians 5:1-4 emphasis verse 4, 1 Timothy 4:1. We don’t like the phrase “lose your salvation”, we prefer to say leave, willfully turn, or walk away from. The technical term is apostatize. With respect to Ephesians 1:13-14, the only thing that can break a divine seal is your own free will, because God is the ultimate perfect gentleman. I do appreciate you approach to the Scriptures by going to the original Greek and checking out those verb tenses as well. I would say I’m in 99.9/10’s agreement with you on this issue.
Best part of the video 1:45:31 to 1:48:00 Amen. All the good I do is Christ in me and all the bad I do is because I'm not worth more than $5 of dirt lol and that's on me. But thank God that I don't have to lean on myself to finish this race, I get to lean on Jesus the entire way.
Just to clarify I believe in eternal salvation My question is when Cory says all the father gives me shall not perish. So the question is what do you do with John 17:11 “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” John 17:12 NKJV Jesus says Judas was given to him by the father but did perish.
What was the reason Judas was chosen. This video will explain it. You'll notice that Jesus states that Judas has never been cleansed. ruclips.net/video/8Tef_woa5cE/видео.htmlsi=ltJk0dDYDennnqNv
@@smartchristians my question wasn’t wether Judas was cleansed or not. None of the disciples had eternal security when Jesus was praying to the father because the Holy Spirit is the guarentee and the Spirit comes later. So my question was, Jesus clearly is talking to the Father in John 17:12 and he tells the Father “none that you GAVE ME I lost except the son of destruction”. So if you quote John 6:37 saying whoever the Father gives to Jesus won’t be lost then my question was what do you do with John 17:12? This would contradict your interpretation I believe. And I’m honestly asking to see how you would deal with those two verses.
the most ridiculous thought is that people are oscillating between the state of sheep or a goat, wheat or tare, child of the devil or a child of God. This is a blind man who has not been given eyes to see or ears to hear what the spirit says. They were his sheep before they even believed, how can do anything to change that.
Corey ---- "The scholar just said I was absolutely correct about John 10:27-28" AK ---- "Well he's a Calvinist" Corey ---- "How can they listen to another voice if they always flee a stranger?" AK ---- "Well now you're just appealing to context" 😂
I hate how when these discussions happen, somewhere along the line is "well he is a Calvinist" or "that's a Calvinist point" Like, honestly, that's a complete shutoff of critical thinking. To quickly and dismissively shut down an argument or point because it conflicts with something you believe is childish. The AK gentlemen did that a lot, as well as his sources he reached out to. What is the point of that? All I hear when things like that are said is simply this: "I have a presupposition I'm holding firmly to and will not budge or be corrected on, and I will prove you are wrong while I am right" it gets exhausting. I understand why Corey harps that phrase "deal with the text" or "deal with the Greek" etc, because it's an attempt to get past a stubborn presupposition or belief that isn't open to correction.
I'll also add quickly that I once held to the belief of "I'll do what I want when I want how I want" and Jesus came along with His Word and showed me how wrong I was, resulting in me crying out for Him to save me. It's okay to be wrong if I can be made truly right.
Why don't we continue to live as God has told us. I don't believe this is an issue that we should be fighting over. There are way more pressing issues than this.
Among the many denominations and divisions of the Christian faith, debates arise. There are disagreements about church polity, six-day creationism, mode of baptism, and eschatology. There are differences of opinion about social drinking, the gifts of the Spirit, and what makes clothing “modest.” Some of these issues are more important than others, and it is good, to prevent unnecessary clashes and divisions, to distinguish between what is worth debating and what is not. The Bible is clear that some things are worth fighting for. Truth, by definition, is separate from falsehood. We are to take a stand against false teachers and “contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people” (Jude 1:3). Issues that introduce “another gospel”-a message of salvation other than what the Bible teaches-must be denounced (Galatians 1:7; 2 Corinthians 11:4). Revelations, writings, or opinions that are presented as infallible or on par with the Bible must be rejected as heresy (Revelation 22:18; Jeremiah 14:14). We are also to “destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:5). We do not compromise God’s Word or water-down the gospel. If it is a matter of salvation or holy living, we should take a strong stand. Other matters may be handled differently. First Timothy 1:4 instructs Christians not to “devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work-which is by faith.” So the Bible gives us some guidelines about what is worth debating and what is better left alone. Is the matter of Christ’s resurrection worthy of debate? Yes. The resurrection is foundational to the gospel. As long as the debate is civil and aimed at presenting the truth of God’s Word, the resurrection can and should be defended. How about the issue of eternal security? Yes, it is worth debating, to a point. One’s view of eternal security is important and is related to one’s views of salvation and the grace of God. At the same time, if the debate veers into acrimony or threatens to separate brothers in Christ, then it is probably better to table the debate in the name of love. Is it worth debating the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin? Probably not. Keep in mind there is a vast difference between a friendly debate and a bitter war of words. Verbal assault, slander, accusation, and perverse speech have no place in the body of Christ (Colossians 3:8; 1 Peter 2:1; Ephesians 4:31). What must unbelievers think when they see Christians slinging verbal mud at each other over minor doctrinal differences? Ephesians 4:29 says, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” So in our consideration of this topic, we must rule out the name-calling and slander that sadly typifies some Christian debate. Second Timothy 2:15-16 has this instruction: “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness.” We are expected to study God’s Word for ourselves, not just talk about it or take the opinion of someone else about what it says. Simply because a speaker is famous or popular does not mean he is accurate. God has given His Word to us, and He expects us to use it. An example of this kind of spiritual diligence is found in Acts 17:10-12. The Bereans heard the gospel preached by Paul and Silas, and they “examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” They did not merely take Paul’s word for it but compared everything to the Word of God. Only when they found his gospel was supported by Scripture were they willing to be taught by him. When we believe someone is in doctrinal error, we can humbly and respectfully point it out. But we have to remember that others with equal reverence for God’s Word may read it differently. Such discussion is healthy if approached with the right attitude and a teachable spirit. We learn much from the input of others and may even change our viewpoint when presented with a new perspective. Some topics have challenged sincere believers since the early church. Respectful debate on important issues is beneficial to everyone involved, if it is done in the spirit of Christ without ego or personal agenda. Colossians 4:6 gives clear instruction about how we should conduct ourselves in debates: “Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” Jesus wants His children to “be one.” His impassioned prayer to the Father just before His crucifixion reveals His deep desire for us: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me” (John 17:20-21). We can “agree to disagree” on issues that do not involve salvation or godly living. Our ultimate goal should not be to prove our point but to model the kind of love and acceptance that Jesus showed His disciples (John 13:34-35). No human being has all the answers on every subject. Our goal should be to immerse ourselves in God’s Word so that we recognize error when we hear it. But we must also purpose to approach every non-essential issue with a teachable spirit so that we can best fulfill God’s desire for unity in His church (1 John 4:12). In the words of 17th-century theologian Rupertus Meldenius, “In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”
John 15.1,2,6,8. 1I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he trims clean so that it will be even more fruitful . . . 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches 8 are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.... This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Corey, AK was being disingenuous by cherry picking and taking things out of context. I thought it quite interesting that one of the scholars that he brought in said in the closing of his reply to AK was to not cherry pick what he (the scholar) said and take it out of context, which is exactly what AK did.
If there should ever come a time, when you think that you lost a debate, I hope that you don’t delete your channel; because you help the body when you address and debunk heretical foolishness online.
Corey, I understand your point, but what I don't understand is the necessity of all the warnings about abiding in Him, falling away, if ye continue, don't draw back, be cut off for unbelief, whose house we are if we continue, etc. What would be the point of these warnings? This is what I struggle with. And sometimes you do not see the forest (truth) because of the trees (worldly knowledge) especially when it comes to the rapture/resurrection. The sheep will be raised when? the last day (John 6:40). Not prior to tribulation. That is not the last day.
The New Testament contains several warning passages. Some are clearly warnings about the dangers of false teachings and false teachers. Others alert believers to the reality of trials or warn of end-times events. Yet there are several passages that warn Christians about their own behavior, and some seem to imply a loss of salvation for the disobedient. In light of the doctrine of eternal security, how are these warning passages to be understood? Some New Testament warning passages are aimed at those who are part of the visible church but who do not truly know Christ. Such are the warnings in the epistle to the Hebrews. The author of Hebrews directs some of his statements to mere professors who are not actually saved (see Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26). The target audience of these passages is unbelievers who are associated with the church and have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth-perhaps they’ve even made a profession of faith-but they have not exercised genuine saving faith. If they continue to reject Christ, they will be lost forever. Other warning passages teach (by implication) the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints; that is, those who are truly born again will not deny the gospel or forsake Christ. First Corinthians 15:1-2 is one such passage: “I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” Paul’s proviso “If you hold firmly to the word” is simply his way of saying that everyone who has truly believed in Christ will hold on to the end. Those who are false professors of the faith, who are Christians in name only, will eventually be swayed from the gospel through the attacks of the unbelieving world (see 1 Timothy 1:19-20). Paul’s statement “Otherwise, you have believed in vain” in 1 Corinthians 15:2 can be understood in one of two ways. First, it could be that Paul is speaking rhetorically, putting forward a hypothetical statement concerning the truth of the gospel. The message he preached would save them-unless the message was false. The New Living Translation brings out this meaning: “Unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.” In the rest of the chapter, Paul emphasizes the fact of the resurrection and the reliability of his message. Second, Paul could be contrasting true belief, which results in salvation, with mere intellectual assent or an emotional reaction, which is worthless to save a soul. In this case, Paul is warning professing Christians not to be like the stony ground or the thorny ground in Jesus’ parable (see Matthew 13:1-23). Jesus gave a warning to false professors in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” Even many religious people who claim to serve God do not truly know the Lord. The matter of salvation is of utmost importance, and many New Testament warning passages are meant to cause professed believers to examine themselves to ensure they truly have put their faith in Christ (see 2 Corinthians 13:5). Other New Testament passages warn believers against various sins. These warnings do not relate to salvation but to God’s work of sanctification in the lives of believers. Believers have been set free from slavery to sin and are cautioned to stand firm in that freedom (Galatians 5:1; Philippians 2:12-13). The book of Revelation contains several warnings regarding sinful behavior in the seven churches. In those churches, the sins of theological compromise, immorality, apathy, and pride had to be dealt with. Scripture teaches that we can know we are saved: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John 5:13). Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), and God will finish the work He began in us (Philippians 1:6). Believers are called to live in holiness, and false professors of faith are called to repent and trust in Christ for salvation. The need for believers to avoid sin and the need for false converts to stop pretending necessitate the warning passages of Scripture.
I am not too proud to admit that the majority of this conversation is above my head lol. Having said that, the man you were debating said something that i understood to be quite contradictory.
Whatever God says according to what denspensation in context. In the case of "His sheep", we are not the sheep. The Jews were referred to as sheep. In this desensation we are regarded as "His body", a new creation. It is very important to know the difference between how God dealt with Israel and how God is dealing with His body of today where there is Jew and Gentile.
I know that my comment is petty. As soon as I saw your video with this guy, I knew it was going to be some foolishness with him. Corey, I find it hard to believe that this guy that you’re having this discussion with can even read basic English.
There is evidence in the Old Testiment supporting OSAS. The real question is those who want to disbelieve that's wrong, do thy really have salvation to lose.
Do many scriptures tells us we call lose our salvation…He who endures to the end, shall be saved, Matthew 24:13. It is sad that people want to sin and justify their wrong doing.
“Have sin”, is past tense, meaning the Jews (religious leaders) needed a Savior as well as the Gentiles (All). Remember, even in this 21 Century, Jews and other religious groups, do not accept Jesus as their Savior. Before Jesus came, the entire world was in sin. ALL our condition, until He shed his blood for all. However, we must accept the gift of God, by believing on Jesus, confess our sinful condition, then we are forgiven and walk in the newness of life. But we must continue to walk with Him, in obedience. So many people are trying to do it within their own strength. “Impossible!” We must remain faithful. 70 of Jesus’ followers decided the way was too hard, therefore, they turned and didn’t continue to walk with Jesus. Jesus turned to the first chosen disciples and asked them would they go also. Peter said, “Where can we go, you alone have the word of eternal life (John 6:66-68)
John 6:37 and John 6:44! Chosen by God and raised by Jesus. The Son has not loss one that the Father has given Him, John 18:9. Jesus is the keeper and those who were chosen for repentance and acceptance has eternal life!
Al Richardson sounds like he knows what he’s talking about! lol until further examination of his stupidity negates his intelligence! AK it’s simpleyour either a sheep or not! That’s why Christ used a being of sorts, cause you cannot decide to stop being a sheep and then become a goat! I don’t understand why it’s so difficult understand this! When Corey explained it, I changed my notion of USAS. Thank you Corey for making it so plain, I’m actually much happier knowing my salvation is secure!
I have a comment why are we talking about Greek the Bible is not in Greek he gave us his word I don’t speak Greek I don’t read Greek all I want the lord to give me understanding of his word that’s it I read the King James Version so can you explain 2 chronicles 15:2
Brother, SAMARTCHRISTIAN, OSAS is wrong and has made for a lack of real sanctification for most modern Christians since the time of Luther and Calvin,worsening in our own time. Sola Scriptura, if we really believe in it is clear that someone can lose their salvation.
The problems many who propagate a Once Saved Always Saved doctrine, is 2 things: 1. No one can ever "lose" their Salvation. However, they can wilfully choose to forsake Christ, deny his Lordship over them and walk no more with Christ. 2. The Scriptures definitely speak to the security of our Salvation, however, those Scriptures must be rightly divided with the Scriptures that clearly teach that a person can be Saved, then NOT Saved. There are multiple Scriptures spoken by Christ that obviously must be understood in light of what actually happened and the epistles given by Christ through his apostles. Such as: Luke 21:17-18 KJV And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. [18] But there shall not an hair of your head perish. Here, the Lord told the apostles that "not an hair of your head perish". Then we read in the Scripture: Acts 12:1-2 KJV Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. [2] And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. So did a hair on James' head perish? Yes, his natural hair did perish, however the Lord was referring to raising them up with glorified bodies and not a hair will be missing. Luke 21:13-14 cannot be correctly understood alone, we must rightly divide it with many other Scriptures. The same is true with: John 10:27-28 KJV My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. God Bless
Did Jesus lie or not know what he was talking about when he said his sheep was given to him by the father and he will lose none that the father gave him but raise them up on that day. With the author and the finisher of the faith making this statement how can the sheep that he said he was to keep willfully forsake and deny him? Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about being born again said you had to be born of water and the spirit and the he rephrased and said you must be born again, this is how you become a sheep. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel 36:25-27 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Notice who is talking - God Notice who is doing - God Notice what the requirements - Nothing Notice the results - Heart exchange, cleansing, God’s Spirit, Caused to walk in his statutes, Caused to keep his judgments. With all this being done, does it sound like you lose your salvation?
I was 50/50 with this question untill I heard a older guy say to me on this topic. He said you can Loose your car keys not your salvation! So the correct term is forfeit your faith one would have to denounce Christ and the faith but that would be hard too because the Holy Spirit would grieve you like crazy how would you sleep at night hahah.
Also I dont believe you can lose salvation if you are a true believer. However if of my own free will I can chose Jesus Christ as my Lord. Wouldn't the inverse be true that I can of my own free will chose to not follow him anymore. Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
I believe Daniel Wallace is a Calvinist, and no, that's not a stupid statement to make because all people have biases. In fact, studies show that people with a higher education tend to be more biased because they believe they can't be wrong. When you know he believes in election and perseverance of the saints, he will tend to be biased. Jesus never used anything in greek the writers of the new testament did. Did Jesus speak in greek grammatical rules? No lol this was never once on the lips of Jesus. Jesus spoke in Greek grammatical rules lol come on
Losing salvation is real. Read the parable in Romans 11. This is related to salvation and the church. 1 Peter 4:17-19 says that even if you are in the church, you are scarcely saved. Just being in the church is not enough to guarantee salvation.
That is what you got from that scripture? Romans 11 is talking about the Harding of Israel's heart and the grafting in of the church n 1 Peter 4, Peter challenges believers to understand that suffering and difficulty will be part of our lives (1 Peter 4:12). Even in that suffering, we should continually rejoice because one day Christ will be revealed in glory and we with Him (1 Peter 4:13). In this context, Peter says, “If you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, ‘If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?’” (1 Peter 4:16-18). Peter’s quotation is from the Septuagint translation of Proverbs 11:31, which says, “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (Brenton, 1844). Peter uses this quote in the context of preparing believers to suffer for the cause of Christ. It is worth remembering that Peter had tried to escape the potential of suffering for Christ when Jesus was arrested. Rather than be associated with Jesus, Peter denied knowing Jesus three times. By the time he wrote his epistles, Peter had come a long way and had indeed suffered for Christ throughout his ministry-he would ultimately die as a martyr because of his preaching of the gospel of Christ. In encouraging believers to rejoice even in suffering for Christ, Peter exhorts them that they should not suffer for doing wrong (1 Peter 4:15)-believers should be cautious not to do wrong. We should be holy in our behavior because our Father in heaven is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16). But when believers suffer for being associated with Christ, that glorifies God (1 Peter 4:16). As Peter cautions against doing evil, he reminds that judgment begins with the household of God. Peter rhetorically asks, if God takes righteousness so seriously that He first judges His own people, then how serious will the judgment be for unbelievers (1 Peter 4:17)? If the righteous will “scarcely be saved” (as the King James Version phrases it), then what will become of those who are not believing in God (1 Peter 4:18)? Peter recognizes that God’s saving grace has been provided (1 Peter 1:3-5). Peter knew firsthand what that provision cost. God’s grace is free to all who will receive it by belief in Jesus, but it was not free to God (1 Peter 1:18-19). Jesus paid the ultimate price to provide us with that gift, and all three Persons of the Trinity exert effort to ensure our salvation. The Father chose us to be in Christ to be holy and blameless as His adopted sons (Ephesians 1:4). The Son redeemed us by shedding His blood as a substitution, dying in our place (Ephesians 1:7). The Holy Spirit seals us as God’s pledge or guarantee that we have been redeemed and have eternal life (Ephesians 1:13-14). These are just a few examples of what God does on our behalf. While nothing is difficult for God, Peter recognizes that the righteous will “scarcely be saved” (1 Peter 4:18), or as the NASB puts it, “it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved.” Further, if God has done so much to express His kindness to those who don’t deserve it, how grave will things be for those who reject His grace and kindness (by not believing in Jesus Christ)?
Corey DOES in fact believe the emphatic negation by itself proves OSAS. Corey, I quote you: "The rule states you cannot later on walk away." If the Greek rule implies that a sheep cannot later on stop being a sheep, then Corey DOES believe the EN proves OSAS.
The emphatic negation only proves that those sheep of his will never be lost, not that one’s state cannot change from sheep to goat or goat to sheep. If you think about it logically, given the criteria Jesus gave for what signifies one is a sheep, namely: knowing, hearing, and following Christ, no one can be considered a sheep before they came to Christ. Like can one who is living a pre-Christian, sinful lifestyle be said to be hearing, following, or knowing Christ? No way. So one changes from a goat to a sheep once they become a believer. Now if one can change from a goat to a sheep I see no reason as to why they cannot change back into a goat if they no longer fit those criteria of knowing, hearing, and following Christ. Thus, as long as one continues to know, hear, and follow Christ they cannot be taken from His hand. But if they return to their pre-Christian life the promise no longer applies.
@@catholictruth102 You either a sheep or you are not, Jesus said the Father gave him the sheep, Jesus said he will lose none of the sheep the father gave him, how can they not remain unless Jesus lied.
@@kgar5String You're simply reading too much into it, as Jesus taught that branches in Him will be cut off if they don't produce fruit (John 15:1-2). These promises only apply if you remain a sheep, i.e. a believer
Anyone that becomes a believer has humbled themselves like a child, asking for forgiveness 🙌🏾💖
My Brutha In Christ Corey, you are doing a fantastic job defending the truth of the Gospel, especially on this topic. Keep on keeping on!
This is one of my favorite channels
Mine too. I look forward to this channel daily.
No he won't take his channel down.stop feeling threatened and stand on your grounds. People want to hear what Corey is saying. Corey your wife is a wise humble woman.🙌🏾💖
When the Holy Spirit lives within you, you are sealed till the day of redemption.
AMEN!!!
So the question is , does that mean you can live the way you want?
@@bzo195 The real question is what is the role of the Holy Spirit once it lives within us?
Unless you.....
Backslide.......GOD DONT MAKE ANYBODY STAY SAVED
@@I-AM-BELIEVER THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A TEACHER......A GUIDE IN ALL THINGS.......
Proverbs 26:12
It's pointless to debate people like him.
It pointless to debate the word
@@terranceburgess9170agree. Cory got demolished in this debate. But not by AK, by the Word.
Maybe the other gentleman is an agent trying to get brother Corey to grow hair out of frustration. Lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
We can see the sarcastic pride in AK's eyes... the expression on his face is that of Solidified Pride💁
He's got an argumentative spirit! Before I was saved, I would do the same. Corey is clearly proving him wrong. Yet he still argues. 🤦🙏🏾
I don’t care what anyone says! You will never disprove OSAS. Those who believe opposite are those who place their salvation in their own hands.
Amen John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Amen
Betcha u will care when the church begins to go thru the seven year period, and u were told u would be pre trib raptured.
Corey it's the same way I feel about telling u the church will go thru the seven year period.
But my time will come, and u will be the guy that's getting talked about for teaching revelation wrong.
Endure to the end - will be saved. So obviously You are not currently saved according to the word.
The promise of everlasting life is inherent in the Gospel. Once we are secure in the Father’s, the Son’s, and sealed by His Spirit, we serve Him because we are saved, not to be saved or to stay saved.
Unbiblical.
People like this, argue as if they are HOPING that salvation can be lost, just for the sake of being seen as "right"!!
Because it can be does he know you ??? You keep feast Torah like Paul Messiah said if not you might be in trouble
@@BrandonAsburywhat is wrong with you? 🤦
Thats stupid.......people just need to know the truth........so they wont stipidly sin their soul into hell.....believing the lies of satan......
No one is hoping salvation can be lost BUT it is a fact that we can forfeit salvation by not continuing in the path by the grace of Jesus our Lord
@@KCRookie show me in Scripture where we can forfeit our salvation?
The premise of that statement is implying we save ourselves. Salvation is a gift that is acquired. If the gift is acquired how can you then lose it from the one who is supposed to be saving you?
Wouldn’t that make Yah untruthful?
The battle of the carnal man and the spirit filled man 😂. Corey u r very humble and patient!!
If one could lose their salvation, then much of scripture makes no sense at all. You did a great job brotha Corey!
It’s the opposite.
You need to realize your conflation of 'losing' salvation with 'forfeiting' salvation...
You need to realize this mistake to at least engage the point of disagreement in the debate, bcuz you're simply barking into wind otherwise
Those who've sat in churches that teach that one can lose their salvation have a hard time understanding that we can not. I was one of those who fought tooth and nail until I kept listening to the other side points. I had to trust the text and not what I was taught as a child in church. Thats the key, I believe, with a lot of saints who have a hard time believing OSAS. Trust the text!!! If you are sheep, you are SEALED by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
I was there once too!
If we can loose our salvation how would we know when it is lost and how do we know when we get it back. What role then does the Holy Spirit play if we can loose it.
We know when salvation is lost when the works are not evident. James 2:14-26.
You’d know it’s lost because you committed a serious sin.
@@catholictruth102 Oh boy
@@oluwasegunoriola9834 So you are saved by works?
@@oluwasegunoriola9834u r kidding me right?
It seems that he wants his preferred doctrine to be right rather than to get right with the proper doctrine.
Agreed. And for him to say that to him it doesn't matter one way or the other, he sure was vested in arguing his point and not being willing to listen to the context of what Corey was saying. You know what they say.. Some people listen to hear others listen for their time to talk and never hear what was said.
OSAS is not proper doctrine.
@@catholictruth102 even though it's proven right over and over? Hard head it's only doing u harm not us, knowing we are forever kept by our Father!! Is what makes us happy and less stressed
@@BriannaColeman-oe9sn It’s not proven at all. In fact it’s a demonic scheme which no Christian should believe.
OSAS is not the gospel
I just don't understand why people refuse to believe Jesus our God.
It's the times that we're living in. Even Jesus own people didn't believe that He was our Savior, and they've rejected Him.
@@slimdude2011 your right ! It's just so startling how fast it's happening!
Jesus certainly did not preach OSAS.
@@catholictruth102 He clearly did . All who belongs to Him. (If Jesus saves you through his finished work then you will always be saved ) because if His grace and faith , trust a dependency on him (: He gives eternal life now. You are holy , blameless, set apart . He’s our judge and mediator .
@@demetriushall1810 Jesus Himself taught that branches in Him (which signifies believers) can be cut off if they don’t produce fruit.
*John 15:1-2* “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.”
Works based salvation is actually not doing the works Christ asks us to do for others because it’s ME focused (my salvation, my rightness, my whatever)
BUT…..salvation is based on a work that HE did on our behalf and the fruits of that is evident in those who He has called from “before the foundations of the earth.” (Eph 1:4-6; Romans 8:28-30).
John 10:27-28 NASB95
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; [28] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
We get what we believe about God and salvation from the scripture, we should not just make up something.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The description the bible gives of working for salvation is if you can boast (Say you did it)
Jesus judged people based on their works (whether or not they cared for the least) in the parable of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46).
@catholictruth102
It is we who judge ourselves, Christ is pure mercy. (John 12:47)
@@christianuniversalist No, Jesus judged based on works. Matthew 25:31-46.
I think this verse support Corey point (1 JOHN 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us.)
The verses immediately beforehand show that this is speaking of antichrists. Not sure why you’d think then that this generalizes to everyone.
The context there shows it’s speaking of the antichrists.
So you think this means that people can't leave the faith for other reasons? In other words, the only reason people "leave" is because they were never believers in the first place?
@@bobthrasher8226 That’s what they believe despite all the scripture teaching otherwise. Like Luke 8:13, etc.
@@catholictruth102 You actually affirm Corey’s point! Luke 8:13 shows that the stony heart/ground are not true sheep! Why? Because under the new covenant, God removes stony hearts-“This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more” (Hebrews 10:16-17). “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.”
Ezekiel 36:26 KJV. Stony hearts are unconverted hearts, not true sheep!
Those who believe you can lose your salvation are prideful and believe they can save their selves or must do good in order to be save. I put my faith in Christ and him alone for my salvation I am a sinner with or without him but with him I am saved by grace and faith alone 💪🏾
Amen, my brother.
Rom 2:6,7 say God will judge everyone according to their works. Jesus said the same in John 5:28,29
Thought you did a great job Corey ❤
Always
Amen. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I believe that after a person makes the choice to accept Jesus, accept the Gospel, and accept that Jesus died and was raised from the dead 3 days later, has eternal life. If a person sins after that they are still saved but they should seek repentance to get themselves realigned in God's grace. The whole belief of losing salvation is not biblical. The righteous man will fall 7 times. We fail God every day, by thought, by breath, by action, and the only unforgivable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus will leave the 99 sheep to go after the 1 that wondered because his sheep are always his sheep. No one is beyond saving unless they continually reject Jesus and God to the point of death. Then it will be too late. I pray everyone who sees this video accepts and follows Jesus while there is still time.
Not "Accepting" the gospel, but believing the gospel and through confession; "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9-10). Simon the Sorcerer heard and professed the gospel or "accepted it" but was not saved...his heart was not right and he actually had the gospel preached to him. Conversely, opposed to an emotional experience whereby some think they are "saved". This latter is the same tactic a lot of churches use with the "call to the front". They tell people to accept Jesus in their heart...then have them fill out a card in a back room somewhere or maybe talk to some counselor (in some cases) and then tell them "Congratulations, you're saved". But if you ask many of those folks what the Gospel is and what does salvation mean, they could not tell you. They are only their as a result of emotional agitation and not as a result of gospel proclamation....
*AMEN!!!*
@@Hakeem597 AMEN!!!
The entire NT teaches loss of salvation.
@catholictruth102 where does it teach loss of salvation? If salvation can be lost, does that make John 3:16 false?
Jesus said in Luke 23:43 (NIV), "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise. When did he become a sheep? The works on the cross speaks volumes and give great understanding 🙌🏾💖
That day, because that is when he believed.
@@kgar5Stringcorrect. The thief did no works. He simply believed and he was instantly and eternally saved forever.
So now we have Christians in the internet debating the word of God. How is this soul winning? Please tell me because I’m utterly confused by this foolishness.
After a while, a dead horse is just a dead horse. No need to keep beating it.
Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak,
and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:4.......Numbers 23:19" God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
Yes .......and cnfusion is from the devil........we are living in a world full of confusion.......and getting worse.......
That guy goes back to the old fall back on........to try to support their once saved always saved thinking.......well..... if they fall back.........backslide........well they just say they werent really saved to begin with.........my my my
ONCE YOU GET SAVED YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED .........AS LONG AS YOU ARE SAVED........
My opinion is this .......DONT BE CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THIS SCHOLARISTIC INTELLECTUAL MESS ........IN MY OPINION CAUSING CONFUSION.......STICK WITH THE HOLY BIBLE THAT WE ALREADY .......IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TRANSLATED FOR OUR SALVATION.......PLAIN AND SIMPLE
Absolutely ........you will never perish .......as Gods word says........but GOD GIVES US ENOUGH COMMOM SENSE TO KNOW THAT WE CAN BACKSLIDE..........THE WORD BACKSLIDING IN MY OPINION........WOULD HAVE NO REASON FOR BEI G IN GODS WORD........IF YOU COULDNT BACKSLIDE AFTER BEING SAVED.........YOU HAVE TO SAVED........OR YOU CANNOT BACKSLIDE........COMMON SENSE.......
St. Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
St. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
“Depart from me I never knew you” would not hit the same / hold the same weight to a ‘former believer’ if one could just reply to Jesus
“When I was a sheep you knew me and i knew you, your words not mine”
Jesus said "I NEVER knew you". He could have said I don't know you anymore, I used to know you, or even I don't know you. Instead He said I NEVER knew you.
@@smartchristiansamen
@@smartchristiansamen. We are saved once and for all by belief in the Gospel at 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Nothing can take that salvation away. 1 John 5:13.
Corey I love the what you said in closing about the confidence and the love for Christ because that’s exactly how it made me feel once I changed my mind. I am a pastor and always believed that we can loose our salvation.
If you know his response is already stayed with email and talking before, then it's a waste of time to argue. His mind is closed, so let him go.
Spot on Corey!🙌🏾💖
Isn’t perishing synonymous with leaving God? To be away from God is to be alienated from God…alienation from God is death? So if the sheep leave, that is the same as perishing which would mean that they can’t?
No.
@@darthnocturnis3941 explain. How is alienation from God not death? And please use scripture.
@@Hakeem597 You are making a categorical fallacy:
Yes, separation from God is referred to as death; but that is not always equivalent to the eternal death of a person who is not in Christ when their temporal life comes to an end.
If you try to say that they are one and the same, then you must also concede that the elect are never born in sin.
When you depart from the faith you are no longer his "sheep" and so leave behind the promises.
Sheep or goat every soul will be judged by our father the creator.
I don't know what AK's issue is. Anyway, we can hope he comes around. Thanks for giving a mention to the Novum Testamentum Graece. I use it to look up the Greek in my BDAG. I recommend both works, in case there is someone who does not have them.
The entire NT teaches loss of salvation.
His comment about this guy being a Calvinist and this informing his interpretation of the Greek is definitely NOT stupid! It's the crux of the argument, because he brings calvinistic presuppositions to Jesus' statetment.
Corey, you wanted me to find the video. Here it is: In your video with JP, you said, "the rule states you cannot later on walk away." The "rule" you are referring to is the emphatic negation. You know that you think the EN is sufficient to say the sheep will always be sheep (which it isn't). That is your logical inference from it. That is what you NEED for OSAS to be proven from it. That is what I and the scholars I provided refute. When you understand that, you will understand my point.
Does the rule, in John 10:28, allow for any possibility of perishing for someone who has been given eternal life?
In other words, is there any means or manner whatsoever that someone can go from being alive eternally, to not alive?
Btw, Corey's argument is not that the EN alone proves his point.
The sheep will not follow the voice of a stranger which means they will not walk away.
@AKRichardson - If you believe that a saved person can lose their salvation then describe *the process* by which they can do so, using scripture that you think affirms that. After all, that would be the most important thing to know to avoid for all believers.
Hebrews 7:23-28 depicts the perfection of Christ's priesthood, and how it covers all past, present, and future sins. If a believer's last act on earth is sinful - it's atoned for! And so sin cannot separate a believing one from God and Christ. And since he is still in Christ and still washed then he has the Holy Spirit. And as John 14:26 shows, He always teaches us and reminds us of Christ so that ignorance or bad teaching cannot lead us away from Christ. And so like John 14:16 affirms, He is with us forever.
So future sin can't do it, and ignorance can't do it, and bad teaching can't do it. What can?
There is a process affirmed in the word which affirms the OSAS view of John 10:27-30. Not to mention the text literally says it is impossible for the sheep to ever perish.
@@andrewmiles2370 Yes by no longer believing. Adam and Eve had everlasting life before they sinned (because death was the result of sinning), but they lost it.
Speaking of linguistics, translations, or transliterations in today's day and age there's software available to help anyone with that and a lot of its free. Now as far as getting a scholar goes the truth of a matter would simply be the truth regardless of accolades. Here's what a PHD having Scholar told me once," the first person to ever receive a degree, got it from someone who didn't have one," Now I'm not anti edification and accolades but ,"knowledge puffs up but love builds up". Shalom!!!
Exactly … and it is the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to the scriptures and teaches us …
How did all the people in the ages before come to salvation without the apps and books and translations ?! So silly
As the Church is having debates, people are going to hell.
We have bigger fish to fry. He called us to be fishermen of men. We would rather see the saved sanctified than the list saved. Trust the Spirit to teach the brethren, and if a brethren disagrees with you, there is a good chance you will not change their mind.
May the grace of God give us eyes to see a bigger picture!!!
This is why you need to know what the word actually is saying, do you think God is missing out on sheep he could have because of us? Everyone who goes to hell deserves to be there because of the sin they committed and the rejection of Jesus.
@kgar5String understand the churches purpose. The purpose of humanity physically is also what we do spiritually. Be fruitful multiply subdue replenish and exercise dominion.
Whoever wants to set in a room and play theologian to me is watching the world go by. Get in this world and be a light. Let folks eat some fruit off your tree.
The church in Acts was active, moving, demonstrating the power of God and the church multiplied.
Ya, I don't think you're in danger of losing your channel. You listen to enough of Richardson you might be in danger of losing your mind, but not your channel.
Jesus said in John 8:31 to those which believed on Him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed. I believe that His sheep will continue and sadly those who are not won't.
He also said branches in Him that don’t produce fruit will be cut off (John 15:1-2). One cannot be in Christ if they’re an unbeliever, so this is clearly speaking of believers.
Discipleship and salvation are separate concepts. One is hard and costly, one is easy and free.
@@GiftofGod289 No, they're the same. To be saved you must be His disciple.
@@catholictruth102 heresy. The only requirement for salvation is belief alone. Acts 16:30-31, John 3:16, John 3:36, Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5.
@GiftofGod289 That’s false and unscriptural. And nowhere do any of those verses say “belief alone.”
*1 John 2:4* “Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments *is a liar,* and the truth is not in him,”
*Revelation 21:8* “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, *and all liars,* their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Cory, you believe one save. I always say it's okay. Somebody believe Different?
You can agree to disagree, it's okay. Titus, chapter 3 verse 9. And second Timothy, 2 verse 23. Stop getting your Self all worked up. God bless you. Love you, brother, Corey.🙂
Problem is you don't know if you are a sheep - until the Judgement. Some who were convinced they were sheep are no longer following the Shepherd. So OSAS is an academic argument. You might as well assume you can lose your salvation since you have to Persevere anyways.
So really the question is, who are the real sheep. Maybe that’s the problem?
That is the real question
When u ask who are the real sheep to me u are saying u don't know what makes a person a child of God.
U first need to understand how to test the Spirit of a person and 1 John 4:1-3 tells u how to do exactly that try the spirit of an individual to see if the Spirit of God is in them, if the Spirit of God is in them they are born again, this is how u try the spirit of a man.
@@smartchristiansBorn again believers. All fall aways from the parable of the sower are unregenerated, not sealed.
@smartchristians Will be saved. Future, passive, indicative. If someone enters by Him, He is a sheep, He Will BE SAVED. It's not of our own doing(active).
John 10:9 NKJV
[9] I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
@@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg oh I agree, I was just saying that’s probably why the other guy didn’t agree. I’m reading commentary on Romans 4 from Logos, I highly recommend reading it. Being raised Catholic I have to really push myself to Not rely on myself and learn to just Trust Him, I want to be perfect Now and honestly should be a lot more than I am now. Oh how I wish we had these tools back in the 80’s. Take advantage of them while you can, I don’t know how much longer they’ll be available. But thank God Jesus said my words will never pass away. 😉🙏
Thanks for sharing your video 🙌🏽🙏🏾
You can never lose your salvation, because when you get saved, you literally and physically get baptized by the Holy Spirit,, Corey you forgot to mention that part. What's it mean to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, it means that God's spirit dwells in you and guides you.
That poor guy's soul is in trouble, he's not in peace,, that the Lord provides us with that wonderful peace and assurance.. I am His and He is mine.
He's not listening nor trusting in God's word! 😢
😂 I'm your huckleberry! Doc Holliday on "Tombstone" ❤
St. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
St. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
I mentioned this on the channel that this video was originally on so I’ll say it here as well
Cory, I believe you misunderstood what AK’s argument was, either that or you didn’t want to see it because he agreed with you that the sheep will never perish, but his argument was that your inference of (the sheep will never perish means that the sheep will never fall away is faulty) and at first I didn’t get it but after really listening and trying to understand his point this is what it was and what I agree with.
I don’t think you handled the debate well, especially when you weren’t simply answering his yes and no questions, which I thought looked bad.
I don’t think either side WON the debate per se, but I think AK handled himself better simply because when he asked you clear questions you answered it in a round about way, but when you asked him questions he answered them responsively and without hesitation.
If the possibility of sheep ever perishing is eliminated (according to the Grammar) Then if someone were to bring up the possibility of sheep walking away, or stop believing, then those possibilities are also negated. When Jesus says it's "Impossible" then it is Impossible, no matter what or how many scenarios you come up with. I understood his arguments well. He simply doesn't understand what the greek is saying. Jesus already described what His sheep will do and how they will behave. There is no room to state Jesus was wrong and sheep will stop following.
@@smartchristians Thanks for responding Cory, appreciate it sir. I just want to say that I agree with you 100%, it was actually your exposition of the Old Testament atonement system and how Jesus fulfills the system fully that shot my tradition through the foot and blew up what I had been taught for the entirety of my life.
I agree that the verse and contextually all of John 10 shows and states how the sheep will respond and act and the state of the sheep. There is no argument to be had against it.
So to clarify are you saying that the Greek double negative that strongly shows that the sheep will not perish ALSO states and/or implies that the sheep will also not fall away? I don’t know Greek, not yet anyway, on my seminary journey, but anyway, is that what the Greek means in this instance: not only that the sheep will not perish, but also that they will not fall away or turn away or walk away?
I agree with you about AK's straightforward answers verses Cory's round-about answers, but I think AK could have handled Cory's answers as "I take that as a YES" or "...NO" and Cory could have agreed or disagreed.
Also, you are one of the few who seems to have tried to understand AK's position. AK was focused on saying that the "emphatic negation" in Jn 10:28 wasn't sufficient to prove OSAS. AK's analogy about Hobby Lobby was spot on, logically.
John 14:15, ““If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
Critically, that passage does not say, “if you want to be saved, keep my commandments.”
Discipleship and salvation are different. How to be saved:
Acts 16:30-31:
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
They always misunderstand how we become sheep.
John 1:13
New International Version
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Has nothing to do with OSAS.
Saying a sheep can perish IF they stop being sheep IMPLIES they were once sheep. You can't stop being something if you weren't first said thing. Hence, people who say you can stop being sheep are indeed stating a sheep can perish...that's contradictory to what Jesus specifically says. I don't get why that's missed by them.
I'm watching the replay. And the thing that i get from those people is they are trying to find why evil, mistakes , wrongdoings and just bad people be good one day and bad the next. Because if God give choices & forgiveness why would the " world" be temping... as if sin doesn't confuse with conflict. The difference would be the heart, trust and belief. The Faith
The view that a person can never loose their salvation is a false assumption and a misunderstanding of scripture. Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 12:31. Apostacy is a forever sin subject to the second death.
Jesus couldn't change the minds of the Temple Priests and Jesus authored the book. He never argued or try to convince them because they were convinced they were right. It was life and death to them. For this guy, Corey you cannot change this man's heart. Unless he repents, he will go to the grave with his biases.
“If you could lose your salvation, you would. How arrogant do you have to be to say “yeah I could lose my salvation, but I haven’t yet” ? You probably just did.”
Corey says "a double negation by itself doesn't negate anything." But, Corey, of course you know we are talking about the EN with Perish. Neither I, nor the scholars I provided, were talking about the EN as two words without regard to the rest of the clause. You know that.
If you can stop being a sheep, then you was never a sheep in the first place
Corey, I can't stop watching you...its like a train wreck. You are so passionate about your position, that you bulldog your thoughts on to whoever you are debating. You do this every time. The other side gets to start their thoughts, but you very seldom let them finish without breaking in.
You say that they can not see past their opinions to even hear the other side, but you don't have the self awareness to see that you are most guilty of this yourself.
Here is the deal if you can walk away like AK is implying. As soon as u walk away u perish making Jesus’ words false
If you are a sheep you are saved, if you give up turn your back on Jesus you are not a sheep and you will perish.
what are the terms
THEY FOLLOW ME
definitely in the scripture text
He leaves the 99 to find the one.
When we are faithless he remains faithful. He cannot deny himself.
Eternal Security for the believer, yes. Absolute eternal security is not a biblical concept. Refuted by King Saul, Judas Iscariot, ( you can go to my response on your Judas video),Hebrews 3:12, 6:1-8, and 10:26-31, all speaking to Hebrew Christians, which I believe you correctly point out. Also look at Galatians 5:1-4 emphasis verse 4, 1 Timothy 4:1. We don’t like the phrase “lose your salvation”, we prefer to say leave, willfully turn, or walk away from. The technical term is apostatize. With respect to Ephesians 1:13-14, the only thing that can break a divine seal is your own free will, because God is the ultimate perfect gentleman. I do appreciate you approach to the Scriptures by going to the original Greek and checking out those verb tenses as well. I would say I’m in 99.9/10’s agreement with you on this issue.
Ugh. I’ve been working so much that I miss all the spicey debates
Best part of the video 1:45:31 to 1:48:00
Amen. All the good I do is Christ in me and all the bad I do is because I'm not worth more than $5 of dirt lol and that's on me. But thank God that I don't have to lean on myself to finish this race, I get to lean on Jesus the entire way.
Just to clarify I believe in eternal salvation
My question is when Cory says all the father gives me shall not perish.
So the question is what do you do with John 17:11
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.”
John 17:12 NKJV
Jesus says Judas was given to him by the father but did perish.
What was the reason Judas was chosen. This video will explain it. You'll notice that Jesus states that Judas has never been cleansed. ruclips.net/video/8Tef_woa5cE/видео.htmlsi=ltJk0dDYDennnqNv
@@smartchristians my question wasn’t wether Judas was cleansed or not.
None of the disciples had eternal security when Jesus was praying to the father because the Holy Spirit is the guarentee and the Spirit comes later.
So my question was, Jesus clearly is talking to the Father in John 17:12 and he tells the Father “none that you GAVE ME I lost except the son of destruction”.
So if you quote John 6:37 saying whoever the Father gives to Jesus won’t be lost then my question was what do you do with John 17:12?
This would contradict your interpretation I believe.
And I’m honestly asking to see how you would deal with those two verses.
the most ridiculous thought is that people are oscillating between the state of sheep or a goat, wheat or tare, child of the devil or a child of God. This is a blind man who has not been given eyes to see or ears to hear what the spirit says. They were his sheep before they even believed, how can do anything to change that.
Corey ---- "The scholar just said I was absolutely correct about John 10:27-28"
AK ---- "Well he's a Calvinist"
Corey ---- "How can they listen to another voice if they always flee a stranger?"
AK ---- "Well now you're just appealing to context"
😂
You can't "Lose" Eternal Life. If you could "Lose" your Salvation/Eternal Life, then that wasnt a Free Gift or Everlasting.
I hate how when these discussions happen, somewhere along the line is "well he is a Calvinist" or "that's a Calvinist point" Like, honestly, that's a complete shutoff of critical thinking. To quickly and dismissively shut down an argument or point because it conflicts with something you believe is childish. The AK gentlemen did that a lot, as well as his sources he reached out to. What is the point of that? All I hear when things like that are said is simply this: "I have a presupposition I'm holding firmly to and will not budge or be corrected on, and I will prove you are wrong while I am right" it gets exhausting. I understand why Corey harps that phrase "deal with the text" or "deal with the Greek" etc, because it's an attempt to get past a stubborn presupposition or belief that isn't open to correction.
I'll also add quickly that I once held to the belief of "I'll do what I want when I want how I want" and Jesus came along with His Word and showed me how wrong I was, resulting in me crying out for Him to save me. It's okay to be wrong if I can be made truly right.
People like this are mostly those who study and never come to fully understand God on a deeper level
I believe in what Christ says, therefore I am in agreement with Brother Corey Minor.
Why don't we continue to live as God has told us. I don't believe this is an issue that we should be fighting over. There are way more pressing issues than this.
Among the many denominations and divisions of the Christian faith, debates arise. There are disagreements about church polity, six-day creationism, mode of baptism, and eschatology. There are differences of opinion about social drinking, the gifts of the Spirit, and what makes clothing “modest.” Some of these issues are more important than others, and it is good, to prevent unnecessary clashes and divisions, to distinguish between what is worth debating and what is not.
The Bible is clear that some things are worth fighting for. Truth, by definition, is separate from falsehood. We are to take a stand against false teachers and “contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people” (Jude 1:3). Issues that introduce “another gospel”-a message of salvation other than what the Bible teaches-must be denounced (Galatians 1:7; 2 Corinthians 11:4). Revelations, writings, or opinions that are presented as infallible or on par with the Bible must be rejected as heresy (Revelation 22:18; Jeremiah 14:14). We are also to “destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:5). We do not compromise God’s Word or water-down the gospel. If it is a matter of salvation or holy living, we should take a strong stand. Other matters may be handled differently. First Timothy 1:4 instructs Christians not to “devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work-which is by faith.” So the Bible gives us some guidelines about what is worth debating and what is better left alone.
Is the matter of Christ’s resurrection worthy of debate? Yes. The resurrection is foundational to the gospel. As long as the debate is civil and aimed at presenting the truth of God’s Word, the resurrection can and should be defended. How about the issue of eternal security? Yes, it is worth debating, to a point. One’s view of eternal security is important and is related to one’s views of salvation and the grace of God. At the same time, if the debate veers into acrimony or threatens to separate brothers in Christ, then it is probably better to table the debate in the name of love. Is it worth debating the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin? Probably not.
Keep in mind there is a vast difference between a friendly debate and a bitter war of words. Verbal assault, slander, accusation, and perverse speech have no place in the body of Christ (Colossians 3:8; 1 Peter 2:1; Ephesians 4:31). What must unbelievers think when they see Christians slinging verbal mud at each other over minor doctrinal differences? Ephesians 4:29 says, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” So in our consideration of this topic, we must rule out the name-calling and slander that sadly typifies some Christian debate.
Second Timothy 2:15-16 has this instruction: “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness.” We are expected to study God’s Word for ourselves, not just talk about it or take the opinion of someone else about what it says. Simply because a speaker is famous or popular does not mean he is accurate. God has given His Word to us, and He expects us to use it. An example of this kind of spiritual diligence is found in Acts 17:10-12. The Bereans heard the gospel preached by Paul and Silas, and they “examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” They did not merely take Paul’s word for it but compared everything to the Word of God. Only when they found his gospel was supported by Scripture were they willing to be taught by him.
When we believe someone is in doctrinal error, we can humbly and respectfully point it out. But we have to remember that others with equal reverence for God’s Word may read it differently. Such discussion is healthy if approached with the right attitude and a teachable spirit. We learn much from the input of others and may even change our viewpoint when presented with a new perspective. Some topics have challenged sincere believers since the early church. Respectful debate on important issues is beneficial to everyone involved, if it is done in the spirit of Christ without ego or personal agenda. Colossians 4:6 gives clear instruction about how we should conduct ourselves in debates: “Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.”
Jesus wants His children to “be one.” His impassioned prayer to the Father just before His crucifixion reveals His deep desire for us: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me” (John 17:20-21).
We can “agree to disagree” on issues that do not involve salvation or godly living. Our ultimate goal should not be to prove our point but to model the kind of love and acceptance that Jesus showed His disciples (John 13:34-35). No human being has all the answers on every subject. Our goal should be to immerse ourselves in God’s Word so that we recognize error when we hear it. But we must also purpose to approach every non-essential issue with a teachable spirit so that we can best fulfill God’s desire for unity in His church (1 John 4:12). In the words of 17th-century theologian Rupertus Meldenius, “In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”
John 15.1,2,6,8.
1I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he trims clean so that it will be even more fruitful . . . 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches 8 are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.... This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Corey, AK was being disingenuous by cherry picking and taking things out of context. I thought it quite interesting that one of the scholars that he brought in said in the closing of his reply to AK was to not cherry pick what he (the scholar) said and take it out of context, which is exactly what AK did.
Can you recall something AK took out of context?
If there should ever come a time, when you think that you lost a debate, I hope that you don’t delete your channel; because you help the body when you address and debunk heretical foolishness online.
Corey, I understand your point, but what I don't understand is the necessity of all the warnings about abiding in Him, falling away, if ye continue, don't draw back, be cut off for unbelief, whose house we are if we continue, etc. What would be the point of these warnings? This is what I struggle with. And sometimes you do not see the forest (truth) because of the trees (worldly knowledge) especially when it comes to the rapture/resurrection. The sheep will be raised when? the last day (John 6:40). Not prior to tribulation. That is not the last day.
The New Testament contains several warning passages. Some are clearly warnings about the dangers of false teachings and false teachers. Others alert believers to the reality of trials or warn of end-times events. Yet there are several passages that warn Christians about their own behavior, and some seem to imply a loss of salvation for the disobedient. In light of the doctrine of eternal security, how are these warning passages to be understood?
Some New Testament warning passages are aimed at those who are part of the visible church but who do not truly know Christ. Such are the warnings in the epistle to the Hebrews. The author of Hebrews directs some of his statements to mere professors who are not actually saved (see Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26). The target audience of these passages is unbelievers who are associated with the church and have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth-perhaps they’ve even made a profession of faith-but they have not exercised genuine saving faith. If they continue to reject Christ, they will be lost forever.
Other warning passages teach (by implication) the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints; that is, those who are truly born again will not deny the gospel or forsake Christ. First Corinthians 15:1-2 is one such passage: “I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” Paul’s proviso “If you hold firmly to the word” is simply his way of saying that everyone who has truly believed in Christ will hold on to the end. Those who are false professors of the faith, who are Christians in name only, will eventually be swayed from the gospel through the attacks of the unbelieving world (see 1 Timothy 1:19-20).
Paul’s statement “Otherwise, you have believed in vain” in 1 Corinthians 15:2 can be understood in one of two ways. First, it could be that Paul is speaking rhetorically, putting forward a hypothetical statement concerning the truth of the gospel. The message he preached would save them-unless the message was false. The New Living Translation brings out this meaning: “Unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.” In the rest of the chapter, Paul emphasizes the fact of the resurrection and the reliability of his message. Second, Paul could be contrasting true belief, which results in salvation, with mere intellectual assent or an emotional reaction, which is worthless to save a soul. In this case, Paul is warning professing Christians not to be like the stony ground or the thorny ground in Jesus’ parable (see Matthew 13:1-23).
Jesus gave a warning to false professors in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” Even many religious people who claim to serve God do not truly know the Lord. The matter of salvation is of utmost importance, and many New Testament warning passages are meant to cause professed believers to examine themselves to ensure they truly have put their faith in Christ (see 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Other New Testament passages warn believers against various sins. These warnings do not relate to salvation but to God’s work of sanctification in the lives of believers. Believers have been set free from slavery to sin and are cautioned to stand firm in that freedom (Galatians 5:1; Philippians 2:12-13). The book of Revelation contains several warnings regarding sinful behavior in the seven churches. In those churches, the sins of theological compromise, immorality, apathy, and pride had to be dealt with.
Scripture teaches that we can know we are saved: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John 5:13). Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), and God will finish the work He began in us (Philippians 1:6). Believers are called to live in holiness, and false professors of faith are called to repent and trust in Christ for salvation. The need for believers to avoid sin and the need for false converts to stop pretending necessitate the warning passages of Scripture.
Janet jackson said if you say that i'm wrong, then you better prove that you're right
I am not too proud to admit that the majority of this conversation is above my head lol. Having said that, the man you were debating said something that i understood to be quite contradictory.
It is always that way until you get more understanding.
Whatever God says according to what denspensation in context.
In the case of "His sheep", we are not the sheep. The Jews were referred to as sheep. In this desensation we are regarded as "His body", a new creation. It is very important to know the difference between how God dealt with Israel and how God is dealing with His body of today where there is Jew and Gentile.
I know that my comment is petty. As soon as I saw your video with this guy, I knew it was going to be some foolishness with him. Corey, I find it hard to believe that this guy that you’re having this discussion with can even read basic English.
The Bible speaks of those who Will Not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, 1 Corth 6: 9-20 and other scriptures on this matter.
Didn’t know you attend DTS. My father’s alumni. I am also taking free Online Bible courses.
There is evidence in the Old Testiment supporting OSAS. The real question is those who want to disbelieve that's wrong, do thy really have salvation to lose.
Do many scriptures tells us we call lose our salvation…He who endures to the end, shall be saved, Matthew 24:13. It is sad that people want to sin and justify their wrong doing.
sadly enough we all have sin, but that is an interesting point that you make
“Have sin”, is past tense, meaning the Jews (religious leaders) needed a Savior as well as the Gentiles (All). Remember, even in this 21 Century, Jews and other religious groups, do not accept Jesus as their Savior. Before Jesus came, the entire world was in sin. ALL our condition, until He shed his blood for all. However, we must accept the gift of God, by believing on Jesus, confess our sinful condition, then we are forgiven and walk in the newness of life. But we must continue to walk with Him, in obedience. So many people are trying to do it within their own strength. “Impossible!” We must remain faithful. 70 of Jesus’ followers decided the way was too hard, therefore, they turned and didn’t continue to walk with Jesus. Jesus turned to the first chosen disciples and asked them would they go also. Peter said, “Where can we go, you alone have the word of eternal life (John 6:66-68)
@@marciarichardson7480 i agree, but nobody is sinless, if you were you wouldn't need Christ
John 6:37 and John 6:44! Chosen by God and raised by Jesus. The Son has not loss one that the Father has given Him, John 18:9. Jesus is the keeper and those who were chosen for repentance and acceptance has eternal life!
Do you believe in being Saved, Sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost? Or do you believe in a sinner’s prayer?
Al Richardson sounds like he knows what he’s talking about! lol until further examination of his stupidity negates his intelligence! AK it’s simpleyour either a sheep or not! That’s why Christ used a being of sorts, cause you cannot decide to stop being a sheep and then become a goat! I don’t understand why it’s so difficult understand this! When Corey explained it, I changed my notion of USAS. Thank you Corey for making it so plain, I’m actually much happier knowing my salvation is secure!
Please stop if GOD came down from heaven and said you can lose your salvation. That would not change your mind!
I would really like to see a debate on this issue between you and Steve Gregg.
Could you link to the discussion referenced?
I have a comment why are we talking about Greek the Bible is not in Greek he gave us his word I don’t speak Greek I don’t read Greek all I want the lord to give me understanding of his word that’s it I read the King James Version so can you explain 2 chronicles 15:2
Brother, SAMARTCHRISTIAN, OSAS is wrong and has made for a lack of real sanctification for most modern Christians since the time of Luther and Calvin,worsening in our own time. Sola Scriptura, if we really believe in it is clear that someone can lose their salvation.
we should ask the CEO of Hobby Lobby if they believe we can lose our salvation.
That's cute. A better question would be if their employees can stop being their employees - that's closer to AK's point.
@@bobthrasher8226 dude had no point.
@@living_the_mac_and_cheese_life You just are unwilling to see it. He was spot on in his analogy.
@@bobthrasher8226 sure bud.
If the sheep can not follow then that would contradict Jesus being The Good Shepherd
The problems many who propagate a Once Saved Always Saved doctrine, is 2 things:
1. No one can ever "lose" their Salvation. However, they can wilfully choose to forsake Christ, deny his Lordship over them and walk no more with Christ.
2. The Scriptures definitely speak to the security of our Salvation, however, those Scriptures must be rightly divided with the Scriptures that clearly teach that a person can be Saved, then NOT Saved.
There are multiple Scriptures spoken by Christ that obviously must be understood in light of what actually happened and the epistles given by Christ through his apostles.
Such as:
Luke 21:17-18 KJV
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. [18] But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Here, the Lord told the apostles that "not an hair of your head perish".
Then we read in the Scripture:
Acts 12:1-2 KJV
Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. [2] And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
So did a hair on James' head perish?
Yes, his natural hair did perish, however the Lord was referring to raising them up with glorified bodies and not a hair will be missing.
Luke 21:13-14 cannot be correctly understood alone, we must rightly divide it with many other Scriptures.
The same is true with:
John 10:27-28 KJV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
God Bless
Did Jesus lie or not know what he was talking about when he said his sheep was given to him by the father and he will lose none that the father gave him but raise them up on that day. With the author and the finisher of the faith making this statement how can the sheep that he said he was to keep willfully forsake and deny him?
Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about being born again said you had to be born of water and the spirit and the he rephrased and said you must be born again, this is how you become a sheep.
Jesus was referencing Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Notice who is talking - God
Notice who is doing - God
Notice what the requirements - Nothing
Notice the results - Heart exchange, cleansing, God’s Spirit, Caused to walk in his statutes, Caused to keep his judgments.
With all this being done, does it sound like you lose your salvation?
I was 50/50 with this question untill I heard a older guy say to me on this topic. He said you can Loose your car keys not your salvation! So the correct term is forfeit your faith one would have to denounce Christ and the faith but that would be hard too because the Holy Spirit would grieve you like crazy how would you sleep at night hahah.
Hard to do? The scripture says "nothing shall separate you from the love of God" nothing includes you.
@@kgar5String good point
Also I dont believe you can lose salvation if you are a true believer. However if of my own free will I can chose Jesus Christ as my Lord. Wouldn't the inverse be true that I can of my own free will chose to not follow him anymore.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
I believe Daniel Wallace is a Calvinist, and no, that's not a stupid statement to make because all people have biases. In fact, studies show that people with a higher education tend to be more biased because they believe they can't be wrong. When you know he believes in election and perseverance of the saints, he will tend to be biased. Jesus never used anything in greek the writers of the new testament did. Did Jesus speak in greek grammatical rules? No lol this was never once on the lips of Jesus. Jesus spoke in Greek grammatical rules lol come on
Losing salvation is real. Read the parable in Romans 11. This is related to salvation and the church. 1 Peter 4:17-19 says that even if you are in the church, you are scarcely saved. Just being in the church is not enough to guarantee salvation.
That is what you got from that scripture? Romans 11 is talking about the Harding of Israel's heart and the grafting in of the church
n 1 Peter 4, Peter challenges believers to understand that suffering and difficulty will be part of our lives (1 Peter 4:12). Even in that suffering, we should continually rejoice because one day Christ will be revealed in glory and we with Him (1 Peter 4:13). In this context, Peter says, “If you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And,
‘If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?’” (1 Peter 4:16-18).
Peter’s quotation is from the Septuagint translation of Proverbs 11:31, which says, “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (Brenton, 1844). Peter uses this quote in the context of preparing believers to suffer for the cause of Christ.
It is worth remembering that Peter had tried to escape the potential of suffering for Christ when Jesus was arrested. Rather than be associated with Jesus, Peter denied knowing Jesus three times. By the time he wrote his epistles, Peter had come a long way and had indeed suffered for Christ throughout his ministry-he would ultimately die as a martyr because of his preaching of the gospel of Christ. In encouraging believers to rejoice even in suffering for Christ, Peter exhorts them that they should not suffer for doing wrong (1 Peter 4:15)-believers should be cautious not to do wrong. We should be holy in our behavior because our Father in heaven is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16). But when believers suffer for being associated with Christ, that glorifies God (1 Peter 4:16).
As Peter cautions against doing evil, he reminds that judgment begins with the household of God. Peter rhetorically asks, if God takes righteousness so seriously that He first judges His own people, then how serious will the judgment be for unbelievers (1 Peter 4:17)? If the righteous will “scarcely be saved” (as the King James Version phrases it), then what will become of those who are not believing in God (1 Peter 4:18)?
Peter recognizes that God’s saving grace has been provided (1 Peter 1:3-5). Peter knew firsthand what that provision cost. God’s grace is free to all who will receive it by belief in Jesus, but it was not free to God (1 Peter 1:18-19). Jesus paid the ultimate price to provide us with that gift, and all three Persons of the Trinity exert effort to ensure our salvation. The Father chose us to be in Christ to be holy and blameless as His adopted sons (Ephesians 1:4). The Son redeemed us by shedding His blood as a substitution, dying in our place (Ephesians 1:7). The Holy Spirit seals us as God’s pledge or guarantee that we have been redeemed and have eternal life (Ephesians 1:13-14). These are just a few examples of what God does on our behalf. While nothing is difficult for God, Peter recognizes that the righteous will “scarcely be saved” (1 Peter 4:18), or as the NASB puts it, “it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved.” Further, if God has done so much to express His kindness to those who don’t deserve it, how grave will things be for those who reject His grace and kindness (by not believing in Jesus Christ)?
Corey DOES in fact believe the emphatic negation by itself proves OSAS. Corey, I quote you: "The rule states you cannot later on walk away." If the Greek rule implies that a sheep cannot later on stop being a sheep, then Corey DOES believe the EN proves OSAS.
It doesn’t matter how you slice it, His sheep will be kept.
The emphatic negation only proves that those sheep of his will never be lost, not that one’s state cannot change from sheep to goat or goat to sheep. If you think about it logically, given the criteria Jesus gave for what signifies one is a sheep, namely: knowing, hearing, and following Christ, no one can be considered a sheep before they came to Christ.
Like can one who is living a pre-Christian, sinful lifestyle be said to be hearing, following, or knowing Christ? No way. So one changes from a goat to a sheep once they become a believer.
Now if one can change from a goat to a sheep I see no reason as to why they cannot change back into a goat if they no longer fit those criteria of knowing, hearing, and following Christ.
Thus, as long as one continues to know, hear, and follow Christ they cannot be taken from His hand. But if they return to their pre-Christian life the promise no longer applies.
@@TimothyC.84If you remain a sheep that is.
@@catholictruth102 You either a sheep or you are not, Jesus said the Father gave him the sheep, Jesus said he will lose none of the sheep the father gave him, how can they not remain unless Jesus lied.
@@kgar5String You're simply reading too much into it, as Jesus taught that branches in Him will be cut off if they don't produce fruit (John 15:1-2). These promises only apply if you remain a sheep, i.e. a believer