Learn more with me on how to become better at homebrewing: solo.to/drhansbrewery Gear I Use and recommend over at Amazon: bit.ly/drhanssf Visit my website for my free ebook: bit.ly/DrHans
Well that's very surprising indeed, I was considering getting a CO2 tank, but after your experiment, maybe better to invest in other things like a PHmeter
Thank you for your great write up on this generally ignored subject. I'm working in a brewery currently and procedures to reduce hot side oxygenation are followed rigorously. O2 degrades the grain/wort at every step I'm told. It makes me cringe when I see the Claw hammer system circulating through a literal sprinkler 😮😬.
Good experiment and its good to see that the standard practices for bottling work. I personally haven't had any oxidation issues and if I have they are very slight and almost impossible to notice in taste and smell like your experiment shows. The color not affecting the flavor is interesting. Maybe if its feasible you could do a long term test between glass and plastic for oxidation and any carbonation loss would be informative. Say 6 months doesn't have to be a hoppy beer but being as the are so sensitive the results might be easier to see. Love the content and I have employed alot of your methods and tips into my brewing.
@@DrHansBrewery I just found you on RUclips and am now watching all your videos. You're doing so well and I hope you stay motivated. Warm greetings from Germany
Good Content! Thanks for doing the experiment so we don't have to. Were the clear bottles exposed to any light over the 4 weeks? Would that cause the difference in color?
Thanks, I love the turntable. First I was thinking of doing longer spinning segments but in the end decided to make them short to not waste peoples time. Check out this one ruclips.net/video/SdghIQ_4eUM/видео.html I invested in a slider also. You will see the first try with that one in tommorows video. Cheers!
Great video doctor H! I was definitely expecting some difference for the bottle that wasn’t flushed to the others and also really interesting that the colour change to the control didn’t equate to flavour, glad I can still rely on my iTap lol
nice comparison as always :) thx a lot for your content here on youtube!! I wonder, why they all oxidized though....even the one you flushed with soda stream AND with the iTap.... I mean how can we make hoppy beers that do not oxidize within 4 weeks then?? Where was the problem? Was it the iTap? Or was it the fact that the bottles were exposed to light in transparent plastic bottles that caused the oxidation? Thx!
Could it have been the increased sediment that fell out of suspension? I noticed there was a bit that had settled out in the bottom of those bottles. I'm sure it's a combination of very slight oxidation and dropout. Still, great video Doc!
Found the same results myself, but just using carbonation caps. Had a few bottles that were sat for about 3 months, and still tasted as close to the first few bottle I decanted as I can remember.
I can’t find the Everyone loves good head T-shirt link. I’m in Australia if that matters. Could someone please attach a link if they can find one. Cheers
would be nice to see this completed at 3 months and 6 months as more relevant time frames for pet bottles. Would also be good to compare 6 mth pet with 6 month glass. --thanks for the video
Good experiment. It is amazing how deeper in color the oxidized sample was. The root of oxidation sets in, in the beginning. That is why it is important to limit introducing more air into beer during transfers. The conversion step is skipped in home brewing due to an increased risk of oxidation during transferring the beer into a secondary fermenter. The home brew method does little to reduce hot side oxidation and most home brewers do not have the equipment that de-aerates brewing water and generally home brewers do not boil brewing water a couple of times before using it, which reduces the risk of hot side oxidation. The minute malt is slopped into hot brewing water that was slopped into the tun and when evil dough balls are flogged hot side oxidation begins. When the grain basket is lifted from the tun and the hot extract in the grain bed slops into the extract in the boiler more oxygen is introduced. Cavitation in pumps and air bubbles in transfer lines blends oxygen in with extract, wort and beer. Homemade beer is usually pounded down before the negative impact that oxidation has on beer sets in.
Also is it possible, since the control was refrigerated for 4 weeks while the other samples were not, that your control floculated out some? This makes sense to me since there was a difference in brightness but not aroma or flavor.
Nice work, no matter what the packaging method you will pick up some amount O2 unless you do it in a totally sealed environment. You basically saw the difference on this by pulling out of the formation vessel in comparison with your bottled beers. It was obviously not enough O2 to have an effect on the beer which is the desired result. Would be interesting to see this done analytically. If you could measure the dissolved oxygen in each condition and report the results you could say with certainty the rate of oxidation.
tbh properly bottled NEIPAs should still last 6 months without VISUAL oxidation. They are not as fresh as they were, but shouldnt have lost much colour at all. Any colour loss implies higher degree of oxidation, not just minor. Minor oxidation starts quickly and first one notices the "best edge" of the hop aroma etc to disappear, fade away.
I think that the bottle version was more "cloudy" since it had some sediments, and probably it wasn't left at cool temperature enough.. while the one in the keg was left there for 4 weeks untouched so it got clearer.. if they smell and taste the same then they shouldn't be oxidized.. that's my thought =). But I am impressed that the first bottle was no oxidized at all.
It should be fine with a little oxygen inside the bottle when bottling since the co2 will probably lay right on top of the beer and protect it, never had problems with loosing hop flavors even long term. Although I always secondary ferment in the bottle so more co2 and the yeast might even use some of the oxygen then idk.
I was wondering what could make the difference between the beer from the keg and the others... You would think that if the explanation is a small error in the bottling process then there would be a difference between the 4 bottles... That the beer flows down the side of the bottles shouldn't make much difference as it's still flowing through CO²... 1) Can oxygen diffuse through the PET plastic into the beer? I would have thought that it wouldn't much, given the pressure from the inside... 2) Could the difference in storage temperature make a difference? 3) How exposed were the bottles to light?
Thank Ronald! 1. Doing a PET vs Glass bottle experiment 2. Yes the warmer temperature will speed up the oxidation process. 3. Only to my studio lights when filming.
Awesome experiment and so glad you did the stupid bottle too as it showed how quickly the beer can be affected. Now we need the same experiment after 3 or 6 months to see if the purging makes any difference over time. Cheers!
Thanks! Yes, maybe the stupid bottle can be an eye opener for people that are new to the game. I have PET vs Glass going on. Will leave that fore 8 weeks I think. And upcoming with some outside help a more scientific with real data.
Getting a little more "objective" in measurement, you could make a fixture that you fill with the beer with a light behind it and a camera in front and then you can repeatably accurately measure the colour difference? The computer should be able to tell between them to a higher accuracy than the human eye. There is also a colour grabber app.
Let's face it , a nice hazy cita needs to be drunk fresh. So if you use an Itap to bottle and few to take to a party, you're gonna drink them straight away!! And if you bottle a few stout beers for 6-months, will it make any difference?
Yes that's exactly why I only vent for a week on the first experiment. Simulating a beer mail. With all that roasted malt in a stout and less hops it will hold up much better at least.
I use the Blichmann Beer Gun for bottling but have been gifted an i-Tap. I am considering using it but thought of another experiment for you Dr. H. How about comparing i-Tap to ther methods , obviously I am keen to comare to the Beer Gun. I enjoy your videos and you English even though most of the videos really SUCK.
Not suprised at all, i have done it with no flush at all for forty years and never had any off tastes. The beer pushes the air out as it comes up and the beer is giving off c o 2 so no air can get in, much cheaper than your flush way
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
Learn more with me on how to become better at homebrewing: solo.to/drhansbrewery
Gear I Use and recommend over at Amazon: bit.ly/drhanssf
Visit my website for my free ebook: bit.ly/DrHans
Well that's very surprising indeed, I was considering getting a CO2 tank, but after your experiment, maybe better to invest in other things like a PHmeter
Thank you for your great write up on this generally ignored subject. I'm working in a brewery currently and procedures to reduce hot side oxygenation are followed rigorously. O2 degrades the grain/wort at every step I'm told. It makes me cringe when I see the Claw hammer system circulating through a literal sprinkler 😮😬.
Much appreciate you sharing this experiment with us DrHans! Thank you!
Thanks Leo!
Love the oxidation videos, good stuff! Thanks Doctor!
Thank you so much!
Great video series. I have an itap that I have not used yet. Nice to see the different methods.
Thanks Ron!
Good experiment and its good to see that the standard practices for bottling work. I personally haven't had any oxidation issues and if I have they are very slight and almost impossible to notice in taste and smell like your experiment shows. The color not affecting the flavor is interesting. Maybe if its feasible you could do a long term test between glass and plastic for oxidation and any carbonation loss would be informative. Say 6 months doesn't have to be a hoppy beer but being as the are so sensitive the results might be easier to see. Love the content and I have employed alot of your methods and tips into my brewing.
Thanks, I'm already on it. A PET vs glass experiment will come in the future.
Nice test video from you. Keep it up. Greetings from Germany.
Thank you so much
@@DrHansBrewery I just found you on RUclips and am now watching all your videos. You're doing so well and I hope you stay motivated. Warm greetings from Germany
Great experiment Doc, thanks for your efforts.
Thank you
Good Content! Thanks for doing the experiment so we don't have to. Were the clear bottles exposed to any light over the 4 weeks? Would that cause the difference in color?
Good question that I have been thinking about as well. 👍🍺
I read somewhere that exposure to UV light causes compounds in the beer to break down, which is why bottles are generally brown or green.
I think it's a great experiment. Something we all question, but haven't had the time to complete. I appreciate you making the effort!
Thanks
Litt overraska må e si og bra jobba DrHans
Jag blev också överraskad av resultatet, skål Björnar
Love your channel. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much
That turntable shot is sick! Also...analy flushed by the Dr. lol Great vid!
Thanks, I love the turntable. First I was thinking of doing longer spinning segments but in the end decided to make them short to not waste peoples time. Check out this one ruclips.net/video/SdghIQ_4eUM/видео.html
I invested in a slider also. You will see the first try with that one in tommorows video. Cheers!
Interesting experiment Doc. It would be interesting to see the difference between clear and green / brown glass bottles.
Thanks!
I'll definitely do that one in the future.
Good news for those of us who bottle condition!
Glad that you liked the video
Is this good content? Yes! Yes it is!
Thank you
Great video doctor H! I was definitely expecting some difference for the bottle that wasn’t flushed to the others and also really interesting that the colour change to the control didn’t equate to flavour, glad I can still rely on my iTap lol
Thanks mate, I was surprised to
nice comparison as always :) thx a lot for your content here on youtube!!
I wonder, why they all oxidized though....even the one you flushed with soda stream AND with the iTap.... I mean how can we make hoppy beers that do not oxidize within 4 weeks then?? Where was the problem? Was it the iTap? Or was it the fact that the bottles were exposed to light in transparent plastic bottles that caused the oxidation?
Thx!
Could it have been the increased sediment that fell out of suspension? I noticed there was a bit that had settled out in the bottom of those bottles. I'm sure it's a combination of very slight oxidation and dropout. Still, great video Doc!
That could also be a factor in the color change. Thanks!
@@DrHansBrewery Keep up the good work Doc, love your videos.
Where did you get that awesome melting Escher clock on your table behind you?!
Here you gp: amzn.to/3OCifcf
wondering if the bottles were left in the fridge would there be such a drastic difference vs. the keg
Found the same results myself, but just using carbonation caps. Had a few bottles that were sat for about 3 months, and still tasted as close to the first few bottle I decanted as I can remember.
Cool
I can’t find the Everyone loves good head T-shirt link. I’m in Australia if that matters. Could someone please attach a link if they can find one. Cheers
Everyone loves good head T-shirt: bit.ly/goodheadmerch
would be nice to see this completed at 3 months and 6 months as more relevant time frames for pet bottles. Would also be good to compare 6 mth pet with 6 month glass. --thanks for the video
Check out the video I released today. It will be something you will like.
Hearing the term Analy flushed got my attentiom that's gotta make it onto a t shirt 😂
Hahaha
Good experiment. It is amazing how deeper in color the oxidized sample was.
The root of oxidation sets in, in the beginning. That is why it is important to limit introducing more air into beer during transfers. The conversion step is skipped in home brewing due to an increased risk of oxidation during transferring the beer into a secondary fermenter. The home brew method does little to reduce hot side oxidation and most home brewers do not have the equipment that de-aerates brewing water and generally home brewers do not boil brewing water a couple of times before using it, which reduces the risk of hot side oxidation. The minute malt is slopped into hot brewing water that was slopped into the tun and when evil dough balls are flogged hot side oxidation begins. When the grain basket is lifted from the tun and the hot extract in the grain bed slops into the extract in the boiler more oxygen is introduced. Cavitation in pumps and air bubbles in transfer lines blends oxygen in with extract, wort and beer.
Homemade beer is usually pounded down before the negative impact that oxidation has on beer sets in.
Also is it possible, since the control was refrigerated for 4 weeks while the other samples were not, that your control floculated out some? This makes sense to me since there was a difference in brightness but not aroma or flavor.
Nice work, no matter what the packaging method you will pick up some amount O2 unless you do it in a totally sealed environment. You basically saw the difference on this by pulling out of the formation vessel in comparison with your bottled beers. It was obviously not enough O2 to have an effect on the beer which is the desired result. Would be interesting to see this done analytically. If you could measure the dissolved oxygen in each condition and report the results you could say with certainty the rate of oxidation.
tbh properly bottled NEIPAs should still last 6 months without VISUAL oxidation. They are not as fresh as they were, but shouldnt have lost much colour at all. Any colour loss implies higher degree of oxidation, not just minor. Minor oxidation starts quickly and first one notices the "best edge" of the hop aroma etc to disappear, fade away.
I think that the bottle version was more "cloudy" since it had some sediments, and probably it wasn't left at cool temperature enough.. while the one in the keg was left there for 4 weeks untouched so it got clearer.. if they smell and taste the same then they shouldn't be oxidized.. that's my thought =). But I am impressed that the first bottle was no oxidized at all.
It should be fine with a little oxygen inside the bottle when bottling since the co2 will probably lay right on top of the beer and protect it, never had problems with loosing hop flavors even long term. Although I always secondary ferment in the bottle so more co2 and the yeast might even use some of the oxygen then idk.
The normal clear pet bottles are oxygen permeable, pet needs a o2 barrier added to it to not oxidize
It was definitely interesting that there was a color shift but not a perceived aroma or taste change.
Thanks, I thought so to!
What about Metabisulphate?
Yes
I was wondering what could make the difference between the beer from the keg and the others... You would think that if the explanation is a small error in the bottling process then there would be a difference between the 4 bottles... That the beer flows down the side of the bottles shouldn't make much difference as it's still flowing through CO²...
1) Can oxygen diffuse through the PET plastic into the beer?
I would have thought that it wouldn't much, given the pressure from the inside...
2) Could the difference in storage temperature make a difference?
3) How exposed were the bottles to light?
Thank Ronald!
1. Doing a PET vs Glass bottle experiment
2. Yes the warmer temperature will speed up the oxidation process.
3. Only to my studio lights when filming.
Yes, oxygen permeates through PET
Awesome experiment and so glad you did the stupid bottle too as it showed how quickly the beer can be affected.
Now we need the same experiment after 3 or 6 months to see if the purging makes any difference over time.
Cheers!
Thanks! Yes, maybe the stupid bottle can be an eye opener for people that are new to the game.
I have PET vs Glass going on. Will leave that fore 8 weeks I think. And upcoming with some outside help a more scientific with real data.
Put a pressure fermented beer on a bottle with iTap. Do the very best you can and send it to me. I will test it for oxygen. Them you get real numbers.
Yes, lets do it with the next batch!
Getting a little more "objective" in measurement, you could make a fixture that you fill with the beer with a light behind it and a camera in front and then you can repeatably accurately measure the colour difference? The computer should be able to tell between them to a higher accuracy than the human eye. There is also a colour grabber app.
Going by smell and taste is a good test as that is what's really important. But the nerd in me will of course have to take this deeper!
Let's face it , a nice hazy cita needs to be drunk fresh. So if you use an Itap to bottle and few to take to a party, you're gonna drink them straight away!! And if you bottle a few stout beers for 6-months, will it make any difference?
Yes that's exactly why I only vent for a week on the first experiment. Simulating a beer mail. With all that roasted malt in a stout and less hops it will hold up much better at least.
I use the Blichmann Beer Gun for bottling but have been gifted an i-Tap. I am considering using it but thought of another experiment for you Dr. H. How about comparing i-Tap to ther methods , obviously I am keen to comare to the Beer Gun. I enjoy your videos and you English even though most of the videos really SUCK.
Keeping it at room temperature causes that color change.
Not suprised at all, i have done it with no flush at all for forty years and never had any off tastes. The beer pushes the air out as it comes up and the beer is giving off c o 2 so no air can get in, much cheaper than your flush way
💪😜🤙
Cheers
Unless you sample and document the 5th sample it's a failed experiment! Omission is unscientific!
OK
😡
I'm sorry