A Scriptural and logical argument against unconditional and conditional election. Can we really possess a Spiritual blessing outside of "faith" in Christ?
I think you’re right about being “chosen” applying to people *in light of their faith,* or because of their faith, rather than faith being just an “evidence” that you’ve always been “chosen.” But I’m not totally convinced your examples at the end make your point. How do you understand the “before the foundation of the world” part?
Once I began understanding corporate election, which took a while for me to see it because of the Calvinist lenses I had been wearing for so long... and Armenian lenses before that, but once I saw it, I never looked back. Thank you for your comment and for watching! God bless my friend!
I understand your intentions but there is so much you haven’t considered based on just this video. But then again, who am I, and who ever heeds a warning from a RUclips comment? I mean no disrespect.
@@beberean612 first let me know if you ascribe to the “New Perspective on Paul”. One popular author that holds to this view is NT Write. Knowing this will help us understand each other better. Thanks in advance.
@@jeffsilkwood9878 Can you be a little more specific? I don't want to align myself with Wright because I'm not sure how he would nuance the particulars. But corporate election? Yes.
@@beberean612 that is understandable. My concern is that holding to a strict view of God’s choice for the church is that we eliminate the effective work of Christ on the cross. In NT Write’s view he views the cross as necessary but Theologically and philosophically cannot provide justification for the need of the cross and the atoning work of Christ. In my understanding God chose both the means of His Grace (being Christ) and the recipient of His Grace (the elect). 1 Peter 3 is a great example with Paul’s use of Noah. The Ark as a type of Christ and the 8 that were save the elect. Why were they elected? Because they were found righteous by faith. Why were they faithful? Because their faith was given to them by God himself Ephesians 2:8-9. As a prior Calvinist I am sure all of there text are known to you. And maybe I am not understanding your perspective completely. But to the point of an elected individual or an elected means I say yes to both and. Again I know I asked the question of you. And perhaps I was to presumptuous. As having a full conversation in a RUclips comment section is very difficult. Lastly, as a prior Calvinist I assume you are familiar with Dr. James White. I would recommend his book, “The God Who Justifies”. If for no other reasons just for a counter perspective. I pray God blesses you. I am more than willing to keep out conversation going to the best of my ability. Soli Deo gloria (to God be the Glory).
I think you’re right about being “chosen” applying to people *in light of their faith,* or because of their faith, rather than faith being just an “evidence” that you’ve always been “chosen.”
But I’m not totally convinced your examples at the end make your point.
How do you understand the “before the foundation of the world” part?
Once I began understanding corporate election, which took a while for me to see it because of the Calvinist lenses I had been wearing for so long... and Armenian lenses before that, but once I saw it, I never looked back. Thank you for your comment and for watching! God bless my friend!
I understand your intentions but there is so much you haven’t considered based on just this video. But then again, who am I, and who ever heeds a warning from a RUclips comment? I mean no disrespect.
If you let me know what you're talking about specifically, I would be happy to address it. Thank you for your comment!
@@beberean612 first let me know if you ascribe to the “New Perspective on Paul”. One popular author that holds to this view is NT Write. Knowing this will help us understand each other better. Thanks in advance.
@@jeffsilkwood9878 Can you be a little more specific? I don't want to align myself with Wright because I'm not sure how he would nuance the particulars. But corporate election? Yes.
@@beberean612 that is understandable. My concern is that holding to a strict view of God’s choice for the church is that we eliminate the effective work of Christ on the cross. In NT Write’s view he views the cross as necessary but Theologically and philosophically cannot provide justification for the need of the cross and the atoning work of Christ.
In my understanding God chose both the means of His Grace (being Christ) and the recipient of His Grace (the elect). 1 Peter 3 is a great example with Paul’s use of Noah. The Ark as a type of Christ and the 8 that were save the elect. Why were they elected? Because they were found righteous by faith. Why were they faithful? Because their faith was given to them by God himself Ephesians 2:8-9. As a prior Calvinist I am sure all of there text are known to you.
And maybe I am not understanding your perspective completely. But to the point of an elected individual or an elected means I say yes to both and. Again I know I asked the question of you. And perhaps I was to presumptuous. As having a full conversation in a RUclips comment section is very difficult. Lastly, as a prior Calvinist I assume you are familiar with Dr. James White. I would recommend his book, “The God Who Justifies”. If for no other reasons just for a counter perspective. I pray God blesses you. I am more than willing to keep out conversation going to the best of my ability. Soli Deo gloria (to God be the Glory).