Top 10 Reasons You Should NOT Buy A Mini-Mill
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- This video shares my experience of owning a Grizzly G0704 and now an EISEN S-3AB Milling Machine.
0:00 Intro
0:15 What I started out with
3:27 How to power a 3 phase mill
5:12 Reason You Should Buy A Mini-Mill
6:05 The Best Mini-Mill brands
If you would like to run a 3phase machine off your 240v single phase power here is a VFD that will make that possible. amzn.to/3yNmR8x
Coupon Code: BECK
Saves you 5% of your total order @store.evolutionpowertools.com/
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Exactly - The best is always at the end 👍👍😎👍👍. Thanks for sharing this valuable lesson. You’ve got a great mill there. Note it’s a little rarer to find such deals in less industrial parts of the country, but they are out there for those with extraordinary patience.
Glad you liked it. That's a good point you make. I'm in the Fort Wayne, IN area. We have hundreds of small machine shops around here. The shops mostly buy new knee mills and sell off their used machines when they upgrade. We probably have a surplus here. If you live in a tourist town you'll prolly not fair as well.
Can't find anything close to this for less than $3500 to $5000 in my area of San Diego
Hobbyist mill for 2k is insane.
Like you said Bridgeports go for sale all day for less then that. VFD or single phase motor conversion is pennies in comparison to the upkeep of a benchtop.
Then again I was the dumbass who bought a brand new 38$K Tormach 1100mx.
Then promptly sold it 3 months later for 35$K and used that money to buy a Fadal 3016, a Fadal 6030, a Sharp SV3220, a Haas SL10T, the exact same kneemill in this video (Alliant brand), a 300mm gapbed lathe, giant 3phase vertical and horizontal bandsaws, a 2 stage crown electric pallet forklift, a starrett cmm, granite plates, kennedy tool boxes, 3 vidmar cabinets, powdercoat system and oven, down draft table, a giant ultrasonic parts cleaner, a huge vibratory tumbler, and the list goes on all with that money and still had some left over.
TLDR - be smart with your money. Look at what 1 thing cost me in comparison to what I have now with the same amount of money invested.
I've considered the Tormach 1100mx but I'm afraid it's junk. I've heard too many bad things about them. but part of me still wants one. what made you decide to sell it?
I just don't know what to check if I'm going to buy a used one. Thats also the scary thing about used CNC machines from the early 90's. Tech between the 90's to the 2020's expanded so much you get a machine with 8kb or memory and only G Code with spindles that have massive runout you don't notice until its powered up in your shop.
Great video with lots of good info. Over here in the UK smaller three phase machines were pretty cheap until about ten years ago. That's when digital and rotary inverters that could run up to a 2 hp motor became affordable, and the home machinists cottoned on. So, like you said, ''get in there before it becomes common knowledge''.
I've always had a three phase supply in my workshop, and I paid 'buttons' for most of my smaller machines.
About 15 years ago I bought an ex college ten speed pillar drill called a Progress 2g. It's a UK made machine from about 1970, and are highly regarded. Mine was in immaculate condition and I gave around $100 for it. Now it would probably sell for around $700, because the home types can run one with an inverter.
Having not heard of them I looked up Eisen milling machines. It appears that they are made in Taiwan, and they look pretty good. You did extremely well to get your machine for $1500.
Ironically full sized industrial machines are expensive over here. When I was looking for a knee mill several years ago I looked at many machines for sale, both privately and from machine tool dealers, and within my budget they were without exception too worn for my liking, and had things such as handles missing etc.
I upped my budget and eventually I found a Taiwanese machine made by Long Chang machinery, and badged Semco It had everything I wanted. 40 international spindle, power drawbar, 2 axis DRO, power feed on the X axis, and absolutely no cutter/idiot marks on the table. It's from the 90's and had belonged from new to a company who restored old church windows. So it had probably never cut any really hard metal. It cost me around $5000 at the time I would think.
Thank you sir!!!! I'm actively looking at a benchmill and 3phase is why. I've never herd of a vfd
Two reasons for a small or midsize mill. 1) Need. If you are only working on small projects or you're working with mostly aluminum, a full size knee mill is overkill. Sure, it'll work. But it's like getting a $3,000 Powermatic tablesaw when all you need a Delta contractors saw. 2) Space. I've got a 3-in-1 Shoptask because it was the only way I would ever be able to have a mill and lathe. Now I've got more room and I've already picked up a SB Heavy 10. I got a line on 60's era Bridgeport. Although that's going to be a really tight fit. And TBH, it's overkill. But I've had zero luck finding a mid-size mill.
Precision Matthews makes some mid size mills. Compared to a used 60's era Bridgeport the new mid size mill will prolly cost you more. but if you want to pack a big punch in a small space take a look at this guy. www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-940v-milling-machine/
Totally agree, I bought a grizzly small mill 2 months ago and it's for sale now, just purchased barely used knee mill for almost the same money
Got a grizzly mill a month ago and I hate it. So disappointed it's not funny. Thinking of selling it. Only reason I got this and not a "big boy" mill was I don't have 220 in my garage.
Just stumbled on PM yesterday, so it was good to hear your endorsement. Still not sure if I have the space for a knee mill but your advice was well noted. It was also recently that I heard about VFD's - better act quick before everyone finds out lol. Thank you!
Wonderful!
Strange that I came across this video because I have been looking everywhere for that deal and I found one for 1300 the other day that is a Condi, but it needs too much work done to it and I’m not gonna put the time into it. So I’m still looking for that great deal and I would love to have one like yours.
About using a VFD to power three-phase motors... I've researched the use of a VFD for three-phase motors, except for any actual hands-on experience. But based on all I've read, for the VFD to be a practical solution the three-phase motor should be rated as "inverter ready" or "inverter duty". Otherwise the motor just won't last very long given the electrical stresses imposed by the VFD output. See, unlike the gently varying sine wave three-phase line-voltage, which a non inverter duty motor is build for, VFD's produce a lot very-high voltage s "pike" noise. This means unless the motor was built and rated to withstand the stresses that voltage spikes these produce on a motor (e.g. pitting due to arcing through the metal ball bearings - I believe inverter duty motors utilize non-conductive, ceramic, ball bearings to prevent this), it doesn't last very long. Please do 'push back' if I'm somehow in error here.
Inverter rated motors are of course better than general purpose three phase motors. The thing is if you're just turning it off and turning it on and varying the speed every now and again you don't really need an inverter rated motor. Especially for my kneemail. All I do I turn it on it maintains a constant speed and then I turn it off. For that type of use you do not need an inverter rated motor. It's operating no different than it would if I had a rotary phase converter. Actually a rotary phase converter would be harder on the motor than VFD. The VFD allows for soft starts and lower in rush current then hooking it straight up to three-phase power from the wall.
Might want to look for a sine wave output inverter, rather than bargain-basement.
Also depends on how heavy of usage you will give it. The occasional weekend hobbyist has different needs than the full-time machinist.
Glad I saw this. I've been thinking about one of those Grizzly mills. I had my suspicions about them.
You get what you pay for.
Great video! My problem is size and getting it down stairs and into a basement. You are right.
yeah 3600 lbs into a basement is not an easy task. lol Check out the Precision Matthews Mini-mills. You get so much more bang for the buck vs the Grizzly that I had. :)
@@BecksArmory thanks. I ordered a grizzly 3/4 hp bench top mill. The first one was beaten to $(:($& by the shipper. I am waiting for them to ship me a second one. I am only milling wood and drilling holes in wood and steel.
@@benjaminseigal5192 If you're only going to mill wood it will last forever. I was running 2" shell cutters and 3/4" drill bits thru steel with mine. I find that once you have it the # of things you use it on will dramatically increase. lol
Yep. Been there. Done that.
Thumbs up buddy. 👍🏼
Thanks 👍
Had a pm 25 mill which is the same exact mill as the grizzley go704 than I bought a PM 727 450lbs far far better than the pm 25
thanks
You're welcome!
Why do you have your copper pipe like that behind the air compressor? Is it a temp thing or a way to get moisture out? If anyone knows please let me know.
I remove moisture. I have a couple videos about it on my channel.
Thanks for explaining the differences. You talked about the VFD and said up to 5hp. I did a search on AMA... and they have a 2, 3, 4, 5, 7.5 and 10hp VFD.
When you said up to 5hp, that's about as much as you need for a hobby/getting into milling using a knee mill? Thank you....
5hp is the largest you can run off 220v single phase input power. If you have 3 phase power you can run a larger vfd. If you have 3 phase power you don't need a vfd in the first place. This is why i say 5hp and under.
1.5hp vfd is the largest you can run off of 120v single phase input power
How much did it cost to have that big boy delivered to your shop? I noticed you never mentioned that. Was that included in your purchase?
The seller loaned me a trailer and truck and my buddy put it into position with his Bobcat. :)
Where did you buy the Mill? I see the same one's listed for $12,000.00 on ebay. I need a bridgeport or like the one you have. I am a hobbyist.
I got it from the owner of the machine shop I work at. They were upgrading to CNC knee mills and needed to get rid of this one. Deal of a lifetime! I couldn't say no.
what types of mills should i be looking for? and at what price for a beginner?
the biggest mill you can fit in your space. If you can fit a knee mill then go for it if you find a good deal. You will outgrow a mini mill pretty fast. If that's all you have the space for check out Precision Matthews or little machine shop.
@@BecksArmory Thanks thanks ...I have the plenty of room for almost any size. I would definitely rather have a better used knee mill than new mini mill it makes sense. I am trying to learn about brands and types so finding 2nd hand is not such a daunting challenge
I just sold my mill/drill and I'm looking for a nice Bridgeport. I. too, tried the X/Y table on a drill press years ago. I ended up ruining the drill press. They just aren't designed to take lateral pressure. For those without enough space for a knee mill, a mill/drill is a very capable machine. They just don't have all the bells and whistles of a good knee mill. I was never impressed with the mini-mills.
Good luck!
220 volts, what's that?
what is all the copper piping behind the compressor?
I'm guessing a compressed air drying setup.
yeah that dries my are for my CNC Plasma table. :) I've got a couple videos on it.
He’s not wrong. Those mini mills wherever u buy them are all made by the same company just a different brand. They’re a headache right out of the box. You’ll pay more than he mini mill costed to buy it trying to make it usable. First thing happened on mine a gear broke. So I had to convert it to belt drive. Next thing was to get a motor for it that can handle more than plastic. And no matter how u tighten the gibs on the column you’re gonna have movement that ruins almost every single finish cut
Plenty of reasons NOT to buy a mini-mill if you are running a business. As a hobby that knee mill is in a completely different price range that makes it out of reach for normal guys who aren't using the machine to make money with.
The problem for most people is moving that big hog.
Well, you Sir got a deal that 99% of people never will get. I bought my first lathe (ENCO 13X40) from a local machine shop for $1500 and thought it was the deal of a lifetime until I realized it was used up and worn out. Lots of issues with it and parts are non existent. MSC bought ENCO but they don't have parts anymore and service is almost non existent. So companies like Precision Matthews are a much better option (even if it's a Chinese machine) because of parts availability and support. Some old machines are a great buy and still work very well but to me, it's kinda like finding a unicorn. This is all talking about hobbyists, not people trying to make money off machines. That's a different story.
If I ever buy another new machine it will be a Precision Matthews. I've researched them for years and years and they seem to the best game in town.
A cheep Teco drive will run a 2 hp mill for decades
First i have to agree Grizzlies are overpriced POS's i have never owned one but know people who have and they were always having problems, i would love have a knee mill but the way my home shop is set up 1 i could never get it in the door without disassembly and 2 with the things i do its goes far beyond overkill 3 i have no 220 power to run it anyway, the only possibility of 220 power is to have the power company drop a seperate service to my shop(its a seperate building that i built from the ground up) so as much as i would love having one its just not an option for me😢
In that case check out Precision Matthews. :)
Knee mill is the way to go from the start. Don't bother getting a mini lathe either. The amount of backlash in the cheap tiny machines is almost offensive. Can't even call some most of them a precision tool.
I got lucky/was extremely patient and frugal when I was looking for my mill and stumbled across an old XLO 601 style mill. $700 asking price, got it for $500 with a kurt vise and a bunch of cutting tools.
When I started looking at it closer after I got it home, seeing what I could do to make it more presentable, I realized it had precision ground ball screws on the X and Y axis.
Only has a half thou of backlash. This sparked the idea of being able to do a budget CNC conversion.
I was able to design and 3d print my own adapters to power each axis with 12nm nema 34 closed loop stepper motors. A 3 axis kit is available for about $300, which is about how much it would've cost to buy power feeds for the X and Y.
It's currently working as a 2 axis CNC mill and I'm able to achieve rapids of 210 inches per minute on both axes(3.5 inches per second in both x and y). CNC is controlled by the free version of Mach3 running off a parallel port breakout board that I hardwired into an old PC along with the 3 stepper motor drivers.
I'm $800 all in on the mill, including the 3 axis CNC kit. (haven't had a chance to design the z axis adapter yet)
When the 3 axis gets fully sorted, I am planning on adding 2 more drivers to control a 90 degree adjustable rotary table for a 4th and 5th axis.
The same computer/controller is going to be used to drive the motors on my CNC lathe conversion. I got a Logan 6561H 14x40 lathe for $200 with missing z axis drive parts that I was going to replace during the CNC conversion anyway. Hoping to get the lathe conversion finished for $500 total, including the lathe itself. I might even be able to sell the quickchange gearbox from it for more than I bought the lathe for since it won't be necessary with the stepper motors for drivers.