I’m an old man now, but when I was young I was always told to be nice to women - to go above and beyond to make them feel valued, cared for, and appreciated. All that brought was a lot of heartbreak. I eventually got married to an “adult infant” (as Jordan would refer to her) and ended up losing about $300k and equal access to my son in the process. I was and continue to be terribly abused, but that doesn’t matter because I’m a man. The lesson learned? Don’t ever be a “nice guy”. Instead, be kind and always focus on becoming the best version of yourself while being considerate of others’ needs (I.e., don’t place the needs of others above your own). Never, ever chase women. Chase your dreams and women will naturally come to you because of your confidence and success. Then the trick becomes how to screen out those who want you for the wrong reasons (and that will be most of them). For you younger guys, once you understand that you have little-to-no inherent value as a man, and that what really matters instead is what you provide, life will make much more sense to you.
No man has become a man until he can LEARN to say "NO" to his wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, cousin or female "friend." Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
I became the nice guy in my marriage. I began to cook, clean and care for our children more than she did. This was on top of me working 50-60 hours a week. Because of this, I let myself go, lost myself and became completely codependent on her for love and attention. Eventually she lost interest in me, cheated and nuked the family. She basically didn't love or respect me for it. It's been bittersweet; I lost my family and the years I invested. However, glad to not be dealing with such a condescending and selfish woman anymore.
@@redpilllense7125 Sorry to hear that brother. However I have experienced a similar situation. Not quite as severe but I'd like to add that women will always need to be "checked". I myself have let things slide in the past with women and just like your situation they slowly start to resent you for it. With that being said with the next woman make sure you check her on it. If she's not holding her own let her know and don't be afraid to walk away if she refuses to change. They want to know that you're a strong man and the only way to do that is to test you. You pass these tests by not tolerating their BS. She oversteps her boundaries she gets checked, she doesn't change she gets cut off. Simple and effective formula.
I remember watching a documentary on the Night Stalker who was a serial killer. He had a ton of women sending him marriage requests and falling for him, this and that. A nurse working in the same prison at that time called them, and I quote "The dumbest bitches I ever met in my life."
@Medea Cassandra Logos I think It's because of the intentions of just having fun in which bad boys will provide. Sure, they're not good partners, but there are girls who want thrill and fun which obviously isn't the boring, yet sensible person people would usually settle with.
@Medea Cassandra Logos well different people have different definitions of the word "fun". Some people think Netflix and chill is fun, others think running red lights and shooting a gun out of the window is fun. 🤷♂️ People are complex.
I once had a friend who had the bad habit of occasionally and unguardedly dropping rarely-heard truth bombs. She once said, "Listen: the qualities that make for a good husband and father are not exciting to date." It was fascinating to overlay that statement with this discussion.
@@alexandercamlin8889 true but not to the same extent. “Who would be fun for tonight” might be that adorable Catholic girl who’s never done anything illegal in her life lol.
I very much enjoy when Dr Peterson speaks to someone in his own field. He's so good at explaining his wealth of knowledge in simple terms, it's staggering to hear complex psychological matters discussed with an equal mind, while still being relatable. We live in such a blessed time to have access to these discussions.
He has such a sophisticated way of articulating himself. He wouldn't be able to speak this way if he hadn't been obsessed for decades in the pursuit of truth.
When I was a 'nice guy' I never had women chase me instead I was the one going to them. It wasn't until I began working on a career through higher education while also working out, essentially bettering myself, that I found women approaching me. It was strange at first but once I realized success and real confidence that you could back up was the true attraction, my life was changed. Be good or even great instead of nice, and don't be a 'bad boy' because that is just a phase for women not something long-term.
You must have a good face. I'm 6'3" 200 lbs 11% bodyfat. My free testosterone is at the 98th percentile. I've never had a women approach nor show interest. I have a masters degree and 2 BS degrees. Women appreciate hard work from an attractive man....not so much from an ugly man. Women highly value the confidence from an attractive man. Not so much from an ugly man. Everything is a pattern or a probability
@@hurlentropy6866 you know everything at last comes down to face structure or physical beauty of the person whom you wanna date That's why almost all girl teens love BTS.
@@leftyloose8576 They will chase only when you look sufficiently attractive to them. It starts with the physical. Every variable is connected to it. A confident attractive male induces a much stronger emotional response from.a women than an ugly confident male....validation and reward is key
@@hurlentropy6866 Kinda same here bro , food bachelor degree 6'1 good job , had been working out for years , and I'm invisible to women , lol all these people are talking bs . And some of my friends , no money , no muscle , short .Gets way more girls , dude is simply more attractive .
As an indigenous Egyptian woman who grew up in an isolated area in the deep south of Egypt, I have never seen, met or heard of ONE female around me who tolerated a ''bad boy' let alone fell for him. It's a Western phenomenon among Western women and those who uphold their values. I have been living in the UK for twenty years and it is still a cultural shock for me. Although I have seen similar pattern among affluent Egyptian women in large cities, and Egyptian girls from broken homes or with unavailable fathers.
What type of guys are the women from that area into? What traits are desirable? I'm curious, I live in an African city with a whole bunch of cultures. The most dominant is Western, but I have South East Asian heritage. These different groups tend to have different preference
This is not true. The "bad boy" in Egyptian culture is simply the loudest, most attractive, most pious ( appearing ) man. It's the same thing in different cultural clothing. Please don't confuse the psychology with the cultural manifestation. In a culture where strict monogamy is practiced, this type of man will gravitate towards becoming a religious figure, or wealthy, so he can break the rules secretly.
@@timothyblazer1749 Well, in the Eastern world, the marriages are usually arranged. So it's the Parents who select the husband. And sex outside marriage is a big no-no.
@@timothyblazer1749 You're right about the 'bad boy' appeal going somewhere else, but you're also wrong about what is appealing and why Girls don't like bad boys because they "break rules"
Lift weights, eat clean, save money & find a groom/style that works well on you. A man optimizes his attractiveness by getting his life in order and being physically fit.
@@nimrylchee8796 May I suggest church attendance, if that is ok with you, it's possibly the best place to find access to a caring social circle, perhaps even romance, but I wouldn't focus on that, it seems like chasing it makes it elusive. All the best to you.
@@nimrylchee8796 I apologize for my comment above, my raw emotions got the best of me. I don't think nihilism is an acceptable answer for anything at all, with time and dedication good this will eventually come along brother. Wish you happiness
I absolutely love how Dr Peterson separates the video into subtopics. This gives us the benefit of optimizing our time by allowing us to match subtopics to maximum interest level.
Hi Dr. Peterson, you might not read this as this will probably get drowned in this sea of comments, but I just wanna share to you that I recently became a fan of yours. I discovered you through youtube shorts. I'm a teenager girl, Muslim, living in a small city in the Philippines. I discovered that you have a book called 12 Rules for Life, so I saved my money despite being jobless😂, ordered your book online and waited patiently for about 10 days. I'm not a bookish person, and your book was the first ever book I've ever purchased in my whole life so far. The excitement that I felt while waiting was comparable to that of a 7 year old waiting for her ultimate birthday gift. I'm currently reading it, and I've been enjoying it so far because I'm learning a lot. Thank you Dr. Peterson, after watching your videos on YT, I've become so much more motivated to pursue the career that I want. I really hope my message reaches you. :') ❤️
Something tells me that you being a teenage girl thinking the way you are and reading great books, means you are going on to great things in this world. Very good.
Happy to see a fellow Filipino here, and I'm really grateful that we teenagers were able to stumble upon and watch Dr. Peterson's videos. I also agree on what's the feeling of reading his book 12 rules for life. I'm also thankful for him somehow his words we able to save me and I feel thankful for him.
Im just a 23 yo kid compared to u guys but im amazed of yall for the sharing so no one would get murdered like what ya ve been through Really appreciate that
The most important thing to me that Peterson pushes is that we ignore our instictive biological/psychological imperatives at our peril. There are forces in our culture that are trying to redefine some of those instincts out of existence instead of contextualizing them into civilization. In the process they are pitting our human need to belong against our biological/psychological nature. It's no wonder that depression, addiction, and suicide is running rampant. How else to cope with being at war with one's self? The only ones more or less free of that conflict will be the rebels and antisocial sorts whose instinct is to see the whole thing burned to the ground. The way our culture "tries to redefine our instincts out of existence" is by recontextualizing certain instinctive impulses as moral character flaws/defects rather than instincts that need civilization grafted over them in the service of mutual utility and benefit. It's the misplaced moralizing that sets up the inner war resulting in endemic depression, addiction, and suicide or at the other end of the continuum destructive rebellion. And it's the misplaced moralizing that makes self-respect impossible in the face of self-judgment for what are actually just natural instincts and attributes that need intelligent modulation and productive redirection.
This is exactly it. He’s not the first one to bring this forward, but he does so very poetically through his seminars, books and even his art. I also love Gabor Maté’s perspective of the ravages of the disconnection and trauma that result for the “inner war”.
Do we ignore our biological/psychological imperatives conscientiously? Are we equipping ourselves and future generations with Emotional Intelligence? How can we contextualize our instincts into civilization when we lack the self awareness that it even needs to be done? We only utilize about 5% of our brain capacity and the rest is subconscious. Becoming conscious of our subconscious patterns and behavior in order to address the issues we face is an arduous task but is like training a muscle. It can be done, building that bridge is going to take collective effort to reach the masses.
The standards for "bad boys" have fallen greatly to "methhead/drug dealer that does donuts in Wal-Mart parking lots" so don't feel bad for not scoring women with these incredible standards.
Exactly. If for me to get laid in today's world requires me to throw all my morals, then I accept to be rejected and I wouldn't mind not approaching a woman ever again.
Or you could just be successful financially, have your s*** together, and know how to game women, and you wouldn't be on this comment section complaining about your life.
1.Would your partner stay with you if you ended up disabled? Or during times of poverty or if you get physically or mentally hurt? Would he/ she work to provide & take care of you? 2.even If not having kids, think of this: would you like your children to Be just like your partner? 3. Now, would you?
Yeah but are her Gene's more likely to survive future generations because she mated with a dominant male? Personal happiness is irrelevant to survival and evolution. You know why it hurts so badly to lose someone you love? Because the more painful it is, the harder you will try in the future to prevent it happening again thereby increasing chances of survival. Sadness and despair are evolutionary tools.
I married the bad boy and have the best life ever. My husband has turned into the best provider for my family, is a very attentive husband and loving father. There is no universal truth.
From a young age I was attracted to the brooding, bad boy type. I also realized, however, that I had an angry, abusive father. I'm not claiming any deep introspection at 14, but I did know I wanted a secure, loving marriage in my future, and I would need to find a partner who would be the opposite of my father. I continued to have many crushes on badboy types in my adolescent years, but refused to date. I didn't see the probability or value of engaging in that behaviour as a teenager. I met my now husband at 22. We've been together for almost 10 years. He's the same height as me, and his frame is smaller. Don't get me wrong, physically I find him extremely attractive. But what I love the most is that he has a big brain and a big heart. When he walks into a room, people smile. He's respected by all his coworkers and employers. He listens to people. He loves people. He's honest and owns up to his mistakes. I'm not dunking on other people who went down a different path than me. But I am grateful I resisted the immediate gratification of passion. Passion simulates an aspect of authentic love, which I eventually found when I met my husband.
@@tiny8626 Teenagers are known to have poor impulse control. Under developed prefrontal cortex I believe. I believe that is why having a solid moral system is crucial for raising children. I still don't want to dunk on anyone. Many people I know who made poor choices were smart enough to learn from them. You could also say that I was motivated by fear as a teenager, which I'm not particularly pleased with. It was a stressful and painful time of my life. It did shape me though, which I'm grateful for.
@@avon8375 That's a one-dimensional take on the whole center of morality of a person you don't even know. I suppose I don't need to defend my position. But I can say with confidence that I didn't choose to marry my husband because I settled for what I didn't actually want. You assume that I haven't done the hard therapeutic work of working through my past. If, as a teenager, I was able to exhibit a level of self control that enabled me to make a wise choice, I trust my own further developed maturity as an adult woman to stay faithful to my husband. I hope you don't make extreme snap judgements of others, as you have with me, a habit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're having a bad week.
Gaston wasn't only just a narcissist in Beauty and the Beast. He had a lot of other traits that were beneficial. He also had a large portion of the village encouraging his behavior and giving him further ammunition to act the way he was. Most of the women were swooing over him and he had a lot of friends. I understand that he's considered the antagonist of the story but It's not like he was completely delusional of his behavior. A lot of the people seemed to really like him. Even if he was an asshole. If you want a bully to stop behaving in a certain way, then don't encourage them. Seemed like a lot of people in the story were culpable in making Gaston the way he was.
I don't know if you remember the whole story but he was a complete lunatic specially towards the end when he stabs the beast. Remember he attacked the beast because of his narcissistic injury was triggered when he realised Belle was in love with the beast. Also narcissists are master manipulators as they know how to climb the social hierarchy.
But part of the story is about that. A 12yo doesn't let a creepy old lady come in? Make him into a monster. A man does everything women in his town tell him too? He's the monster. An in some way, gaston's attraction to beauty is telling. That's not the most beautiful woman in town, not physically. But it's the only women not telling him to go kill himself against an accursed beast. And when it comes to beauty, she doesn't fall for the beast since the start, it's not the wealth either. For starters it seems beast is just a more harrier gaston. But then she see's the books, the garden. And turns out he's not an immature 12yo because a whole town and existence told him to, but because a creepy pedo witch told him and cursed him along with all his loved friends and family. Think about who's the easier job there, gaston or the beast? The beast has a healthy support structure that doesn't encourage him into self-destruction. The beast is knowledgeable instead of completely developmentally stilted. And to help his all you have to do is prove pedo witch wrong. In the original story there's not even a gaston, it's just society. Weirdly enough, disney by trying to make marlon brando the villain they nailed up the point even harder.
As women age and "get more experience" are they better at selecting mates without the dark triad, or are they less capable of securing them in competition with younger, more attractive women?
@@georgemavrides3434 this is the point where you tell them off. 👏 where the fuck were you guys when I was actually pour my heart out? No deal. I rather die than live with someone that "matured".
Narcissists will go for the vulnerable, an older woman could be considered a good target because you can lower her self-esteem over time by constantly reminding her of her age. Younger women can be good targets because of their naivety. The women grow wiser, and choose more carefully.
Be nice to those who are nice to you but take no shit from anyone. Respect is a two way communication and is NOT to be compromised. Being nice can get you walked all over. Being tough will earn you respect and status. You just need to learn when to use either. Mature women are far better at differentiating the great guys from the idiots!
Not that they have as much choice. Reduced beauty, often genetic baggage (another man's kids), etc. They kinda have to go for the stable beta at that point.
I found myself wondering why the dynamic of these relationships are not often picked apart. The narcissist and empathetic partner serve each other. The empath is often a wounded individual who is attempting to find self worth by ‘winning over’ and ‘helping’ the bad boy, when really they should redirect all that love to themselves and healthy relationships. Everyone makes mistakes. The dark triad reveal themselves when their actions demonstrate no conscience despite their apology and accepting words. “What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say…” works both ways. If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types. Extremely apt at people pleasing? (Altruistic surrender; you feel happy and safe when others are. This stems from having to meet your parents psychological need or demand over your own) Do you treat yourself with the same level of care? No? There’s your answer. None of us can declare maturity until we value and respect ourselves and others equally. It’s I’M Possible. Be the change. You have a finite amount of time in your life. There are nearly 8 billion people. Choose wisely who you exchange energy with. ✌🏼❤️
Sam Glazier said: "If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types." That is exactly correct. The WORST thing being raised by parents with personality disorders is that you will become ATTRACTED to exactly those types for long term relationships. That is the WORSE thing that these parents will leave to you, because you replace them with exactly the kind of people who caused you so much pain in the first place. Mostly it occurs because you ignore the GIFT of growing up. Growing up means you can LEAVE. LEAVING is a gift you deserve. If you select toxic people, you have not "left." You are still there. Get therapy. Learn about recognizing toxic people. Avoid them like the plague, precisely because that is what they are. Listen to Sam. He's got it right. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@sanjosemike3137 thank you 🙏🏼 Samantha 😉 You are right too. Therapy and self awareness, breeds strength to leave. ❤️ The hardest part is not behaving like the narcissist too. This can happen when we become exhausted, resentful and bitter. It happens in our blind spot often. Psychodynamic/ depth work is painful and the most challenging journey to commit to, but totally worth it with the right support. I now gravitate to the opposite of my ex. I gravitate towards self aware and kind souls. I thank therapy for that.
A lot of people misunderstand this situation. The one who can walk away is the one who always wins in any relationship. It doesn’t matter how they feel about it, all that matters is they can or could. Always be the guy who could, then she chases you. A bad boy is just a mildly indifferent man, it’s the old version of a man who placed all of his love outside his woman but still cared enough to balance. Like in ages of old, a man saying his love was the sea or his ambition but while still having a wife and a woman. That is what you need to do, find your muse to put your dedication there and don’t give it all to her. Otherwise you end up as a lapdog which is what a nice guy is. A lapdog.
@Thirsty Slayer but you weren't safe with dangerous men too. Bad boys are not just physically abusive, they can be cold, cheaters and poor providers. Yes we still want strong and buffed but it has evolved. Kindness can be sexy too if you were raised by a father that is also kind to his wife
I love how Jordan Peterson is probably always the smartest in the room but is humble enough to try and learn from other great minds, that's why he's the best.
If he was so smart,he wouldn't need any guests to talk to,he could cover any topic himself. He just creates an image that he knows everything by talking too much sometimes without much sense
@@katerinasimonelli6957 It's a smart move to discuss the said topic with an evolutionary psychologist (EP) because JP knows that he is not an EP and the topic falls within the field of an EP, thus, he needs the perspective of an EP. He dives deep in his discussions and he loves to dissect his topics to get to that basic truth, and anyone who does that, whether he likes it or not, is prone to being misinterpreted that he's trying to create a persona that he is very knowledgeable.
The interesting thing is, in my experience some of the kindest, most gentile men I've known were extremely capable killers. My Great Grandfather was such a kind man but from some stories I heard about him second hand he killed a lot of men in the Pacific theater of WWII. Many of my leaders through my time in the Marine Corps were the same, extremely kind men but with a history of extreme violence. I've always been confused by the fact that by and large these are not the sort of men who are particularly successful with women, they're basically the polar opposite of "bad boys". They're extremely agreeable, conscientious, and slow to anger but when put in a situation where violence is the only option they're utterly terrifying.
It's more capability of directed violence. One of the nicest men I know was a Marine in Vietnam. He is a very successful lawyer now. In Vietnam he was a door gunner and on one gun run the were out of ammunition so they did a gun run with him hanging out the side of the helicopter shooting at the NVA with his pistol. I've seen the citation for the award. Being capable of controlled violence, extreme or otherwise, is the characteristic of a dangerous man or woman.
@@ddurkof thats a good way to put it, the interesting thing though is in my experience these men are far less successful with women than the classic "bad boy" archetype who are quick to anger and violence but typically weaklings and cowards when confronted by someone stronger than them. It's just something that never made much sense to me.
@@johnathanmandrake7240 I'm sorry but that has very little to do with my comment. The men I'm talking about are without a doubt some of the most capable, strong men I've ever met. It just seems their kindness makes them unattractive to women.
@@death31313 true. The key for both sexes is to comfortable with one's own company and the correct person will come along. When one's self is lacking we tend to try and fill the void. That can lead us to accept the less than optimal mate.
I have pondered why some women seem to be drawn to abusive partners (bad boys)and the one thing that stood out to me is that being abusive can be mistaken for being strong. The abusive partner makes them feel safe on some primal level. If someone has the potential to be violent towards a partner, there is also the potential that they would be violent in protection of their possessions (the female), their property and their children (if any). It's not that being a nice man is not a good thing, it just doesn't feel like a safe thing.
but why a gentleman cannot be a guy capable of displaying healthy protective traits? I see no contradiction. There is whole a lot between a bad boy and shy softie. Because I am a shy softie, I do prefer my partner rather not.
@@agnieszkapiasecka4124 shy doesn't mean the guy is incapable of defending or inflicting damage if situation demands. Shy means he just don't open to everybody because of various reasons.
I am so happy Dr. Peterson is raising awareness about the Dark Triad, it needs to be common knowledge. It explains so much with respect to deceit, betrayal, greed, absolute selfishness, the evil we see in humans. Hedonism as well. Everyone should study the Dark Triad, amazing video Dr. Peterson
Even as a young teenager I could clearly see that the female sex was wired for attraction to bad boys . Of course , this perception flew right in the face of society's and woman general claims . However , what I constantly witnessed was , simply , undeniable . I was completely amazed that others and in particular my peers could not see the obvious contradiction between what society and women claimed and what the actual behaviour was right before our eyes . I wasn't a bad boy in the worst sense but I was highly individualistic , so I guess that I was a rebel by conventional standards . I thought as I wished , spoke as I wished , dressed as I wished , etc. .Though , I was not hostile or disrespectful to others , I always chose my own path . I can't tell you just how many of my male friends were dumped by women because they were either really nice guys or were trying to conform to the image of what a nice guy was that was becoming very popular at the time . They just couldn't understand why they were losing at the dating / relationship game . It caused them a lot of heartache and grief . I kept telling them that it was because they were too nice or trying to be too nice and that for some bizarre reason women were attracted to bad boys .Years later , I heard one comedian who had had the same 'nice guy ' experience in his youth refer to them as his ' James Taylor Years ' . In any event , the whole nice guy thing just wasn't yielding the desired effects that it was supposed to . Back then the only real conclusion I could draw for womens' propensity to be attracted to bad boys was that the bad boys were a device that they employed to establish their own identity separate from that their bestowed upon them by their parents , a genuine sexual curiosity , a general curiosity , a predilection for drama , status in the community of their peers and a sense of protection in a world which could be dangerous at times . It would appear , that women only shake their attraction to bad boys when they have reached their 40s or 50s . Lacking the energy of youth and having had numerous bad experiences with bad boys they seem to begin to accept that they must settle for a more quiet , less exciting but stable life that is far more possible with a nice guy . It won't be thrilling but it will be comfortable .
From a Christian perspective, marriage is based upon the principle of chastity, not fornication or adultery. Female Virginity and Sexual Chastity for Marriage (Ex. 22:16, Dt. 22:13-21, 28, 29): The once virgin female partner no longer has a justifiable opportunity to have sex with anyone else as long as her first male sex partner is alive--to do so would commit fornication. Abandoned (defiled) or divorced females are required to remain single and sexually abstinent. Divorced males (from their once virgin or chaste widow) are required to remain single and sexually abstinent. So, Christians have different sexual values and attraction to them is different that that of a non-Christian.
This is true for married women who cheat with bad boys for a period of time from their 40s to end 40s. Once they reach 50, they settle with their husbands
One: it is a challenge... chasing something unattainable is a pattern, one that needs to be broken. Second: It is exciting, a feeling we like... but we need to reassociate it with something good for us instead of placing in the hands of one person. Lastly, we want to save them, it's a maternal instinct to jump in and try to be a hero... But to lose yourself in the process is a long process of healing. Once people are whole in themselves, only then can they not chase, not jump, not fear any of it. Just be you, the right people will come around to either be a lesson or a good counterpart.
Enabling the bad behaviour is another oft overlooked acpect of this. Many women are obviously excited by unnecessary conflict and drama and will happily generate it. This often begins and ends in single-parent housholds. This is very evident in certain sub-cultures like it or not.
Most women are notoriously bad at choosing men. Traditionally fathers would vet men as husbands for their daughters, the daughter would approve or decline and marriages were historically more stable. Everything has gone to hell as women have received more freedom and social media dms have given them the false impression that they have more leverage than they actually do.
I have listened to alot of Jordan Peterson talking, I am amazed by the thinking around a subject both positive and negative, and how the positive way is beneficial, and how it will affect you and the world at large. The absolute brilliance to explain in depth, showing passion, truth, and why adaptations in truth is beneficial.
I was always attracted to bad boys. My father was a bad boy, abusive mentally, emotionaly, physicaly and sexually. I loved my father, he was the authority figure and I wanted to please him so that he would love me. He also had some very good characteristics that I admired. I did not remember or recognized his bad qualities. He left when I was 11 years old and I was once again sexually abused by family friend. I never felt worthy of a nice guy and could not connect to them. I believed that men would love me if I pleased them. I kept a very innocent child like part of myself throughout my adult hood. I think it kind of becomes like Stockholm syndrome for some women. I could not accept that people are bad and that there are people in the world that really want to hurt you intentionally and yet at the same time was in great fear of them.
Don't go for "nice guys" they are manipulative and not pleasant to be around aka toxic, they are not well mentally too. Go for somewhere in between :) Go for man who knows its worth, but still capable of love and care. (Easier said than done, but it would be my advice).
@@damnmexican90 Excellent question! Til We make a habit of Authentic Living in Accountability of Self Our LIGHT remains DIM. As parents of young adult children its only fair to them We try Our Best to be Genuine in seeking Truthful Peaceful living. So it seems.
I'm a 45 year old retired nice guy, now finally decided to focus on my career, kids and ageing parents, catching up with old pals, doing something (that gives me pleasure) I didn't do for long because I was too busy making someone else's dream true. It was a tough decision (to set me free), but eventually I did and now I feel I should have done it long ago. It is one life, we must focus on doing the right thing without focusing too much on its consequences.
I think it's more about physical attraction and looks than behavior. I know plenty of guys who are great looking who are also very nice that have no problems attracting women despite them being super "nice." It's more like bad behavior isn't a turn off for women as long as the guy is good looking. And I would say attractive guys are more prone to developing a cocky, entitled "bad boy" personality due to constant positive reinforcement for looking good.
Nah, I don't think so. I think it's more like looks matter A LOT, but the type of "aura" created by the bad boy is just plain a turn on for women, only even more so if he also happens to be physically attractive as well. There have been several studies that have complied strong evidence that the majority of women score the same man much higher in how physically attractive that they appear, by simply contorting their face to look more dominant/ menacing, just as one piece of evidence. On the anecdotal side, I experience finding women far more attractive when they behave confidently, verses when they behave more shyly. That's to say, the same woman will look significantly more attractive to me when she is behaving in a confident manner than when she isn't. So, I happen to know (from experience) that the same type of phenomena happens to men, regarding their attraction to women.
That's also my view. Attractive guys treat women anyway cos most of the time, they are the ones being hit on. It works dor them with women but does not work for them in life. It's more true when you come to females. Attractive females can be very rude to a guy they don't like. And they can be of exceptionally terrible character even at their workplaces. As long as they are very attractive, they feel they will always have a better job.
@@JamesBrown-wy7xs Tbh, this whole bad boy thing seems like a North American problem. I only got introduced to this idea through American media. Most of the research in this takes place in the States, so the results are skewed by the culture there.
Narcissism looks like confidence. Psychopathy looks like an integrated shadow. Machiavellianism looks like strategic planning. *Girls don't want "bad boys", they want useful men*
Dr. Buss either games, knows someone who does, or has studied it. He absolutely nailed it when he talked about the hierarchies within the online gaming communities. There is a relentless hierarchy in the competitive online gaming scene. From the Joe weekender, all the way up the the guys in the pro leagues. Great video, as always Dr. Peterson.
As a woman that fell for a narcissist I want to say that the only reason I was attracted to this type of person was the reason that I had not been aware of my codependency issues and that I was not used to be treated with respect. Once I overcame those issues there is nothing I find attractive about those ppl anymore.
Still it doesn't matter you're still attracted to bad boys because it's psychologically human nature to not get attracted to clingy people and be attracted to the ones that you feel that you are losing and obviously bad boys always play girls and it puts you in a psychological sense to that person is too good for you so you want to trap that but you can believe whatever you want to believe
@@anastasiasanchez7852 Seems like you know me better than I do. I didn‘t knew I forgot everything I learned. Can‘t see trough their manipulations anymore. And now I think again they are cool and am attracted to that. 😂🙈 serious? Girl, there is nothing that attracts me to bad guys anymore. Confidence is sexy. That’s true. But bad boys (or girls). What’s sexy about them if you love yourself? If you love yourself you should have a feeling of wanting to stay away from them. 😘
@@anastasiasanchez7852 so you are saying there are bad boys and clingy ppl. That’s it. No emotional and mentally ppl on this planet. Girl ….. there is something that needs healing inside of YOU. Not outside of you.
I developed a fascination for sociopaths/psychopaths and the eccentric in early adulthood and would spend my free time talking to them and studying them. Then I would grow bored because a lot of them seemed..so limited by the framework they perceive reality with. I let it slip that I became bored with one, and he took tremendous offense; dedicating every opportunity that we’d cross paths to try to bring me down. Unfortunately he wasn’t very good at it. Since then, I’ve crossed paths with bigger and better psychopaths (all men), and each time I would find myself studying their tactics. It’s always very one dimensional despite their subtle methods, and they tend to have nothing to show for. I believe that was part of my journey in integrating my shadow. It’s much easier to come across malevolent people then it is to come across a strong and good person. I’m very grateful I’ve made a friend that is both strong and good.
I believe that it must be very offensive to them realising that they actually fit into very small and very specific box and aren't anything special or extra as they wish others to believe about themselves. Plus recognising their manipulation techniques that are usually similar - ruins their petty agenda and exposes that pitiful little box they operate from.
@@neilreynolds3858you ran into them or they ran into you? You have wasted your youth on bad boys, and now that you are old, used & thrown, now you want a nice man? 😂
Whoever is drawn to criminals, people with broken moral compasses and what else, are for sure one of em themselves. And if they even haven't done anything then it could be a sign they have potential for doing similar negative actions. Controversial perhaps but I believe bad people get attracted to bad people. Not sure why people portray all these people so innocent looking.
anybody has potential for corruption if you corner or press them hard enough. and then ,you have the successful sociopaths or psychopaths, like many police officers, who are wife-beaters.
Respect to David Buss for bringing up World Of Warcraft! ps. Jordan: This is a very important topic to bring up and you fought it well as always. Thanks for informing the world to be more aware of what is happening around them.
i think, you're thinking of bullies. bullies and bad boys aren't the same thing. bad boys don't bully anyone, they just don't tolerate other people's crap and pursue their own desire before they consider someone's else's. bad boys are almost never weak inside or out.
When I was 14 I tried to date a blonde beauty I knew at church. I was quite the gentleman. Even opened doors for her. She thought I was weak. At 16 she got pregnant by the town drug dealer who dropped out of high school and was arrested several times. When he heard she was expecting twins he ran to another state. When he heard she miscarried the babies at eight months he returned. It taught me a valuable lesson about women and beauty. I never looked at female beauty ever the same. Its much like a phony facade.
Tbh I think this problem is less about female beauty and more to do with your expectations that were on faulty foundations. What did you presume her beauty meant about her personality? Women can be beautiful and kind. Beauty isn't a phony facade, it's just a feature. You can't base someone's intentions or personality based on their appearance - that's just unfair to women as a whole. I'm not saying it was your fault, but your situation sounded a lot like the one in the video. You were 14 (very young) and this girl went for someone who represented the dark triad traits because she was also likely young and impressed by his "dangerous" traits. She mistook your kindness for weakness, probably because you couldn't or didn't also show any prowess. Women really desire that sense of potential power/aggression - they want to see you have it, and that you know how to handle it. It's that fine line they were speaking about in the video. You were 14. Don't be hard on yourself - just learn from it. Attraction is necessary for attraction (meaning women's beauty has served a purpose, otherwise men wouldn't be drawn to it). But take the time to get to know someone, and don't over invest in them. It's a thing you learn over time. Becoming jaded about women won't serve you - you just have to learn the game a bit better. Don't punish all women for the hurt you had from a poor experience.
@@sammelina12 Dude I’m 56 and been married 27 years. I’m not weak, nor was I then. I was focused. The lesson I learned is that some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves. Little did I know at the time but later I found out at 14 she wasn’t a virgin. I was.
@@map3384 lol sorry I assumed you were younger. Still think my point presides. Also never called you weak, so don’t twist it. “Some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves”…. Man what a poor argument. Just because a woman has sexual at a young age doesn’t mean she doesn’t respect herself. I can’t even believe I’d still have to have this talk but middle aged men are like this lol. There’s a lot of reasons a female would have sex and it’s just ignorant to say it’s because they don’t have self-respect. You like to feel better than because you were a virgin which I assume is associated to your religious views. That’s fine but isn’t there something in there about thou shall not judge? 🙄😂
@@sammelina12 You’re wrong. Having sex at a young age leads to many psychological problems. That girl from long ago didn’t have a happy life. Going from bad boy to bad boy and being used like trash does bring a person down.
@@map3384 no, I’m not wrong and you’re still ignorant. Correlation is not causation - this is a popular quote in statistics especially related to Psychology. There are a multitude of other variables that would impact her quality of life and life outcomes that do not hinge singularity that she had sex at a young age. Even the fact that she had sex at a young age should make you question her parent’s involvement in her development and her social environment. Having sex is a function that is influenced by other conditions. You can’t take that and apply it to the rest of her life. There are many women who had sex young and still turned out to have a happy life. There’s correlations, but it’s not a causation. Maybe she had childhood wounding from unavailable parents or traumatic events. Maybe she had core wounds like “I am unworthy” and felt she needed to chase men to fill that gap. Maybe she relied on things like alcohol because she didn’t have better tools to cope with suffering caused from early events. You don’t know all. Ignorance is not bliss.
Jordan Peterson, a man of high intellect. I consume as much information from him as I can. He's not political or constrained by cultural Marxism (political correctness), and puts the truth right out there.
I agree, when I was young I think I mistook toxic masculinity as protection and confidence but now as an older woman in her 30s I know better, I know the difference between healthy masculinity and dominance over the toxic narcissistic kind.
@Despize Perform That's actually true. Women want that, but so do men - in the context of a partner. Obviously in the general context of life, everyone wants that of course.
@@leelewis6925 "The law" can change depending on where you live. I may drive over 65mph in one city and get a ticket, but in another city not too far away I can legally drive 75mph and it's totally fine. Be careful when you judge another. Is the purpose to correct them if they're wrong in order to help keep them safe, or to try to control them? Are you sure you're always right and never wrong? These are important self reflections necessary to keep ourselves in check, so that we're not falling victim to the same things we're claiming we're trying to prevent in others.
I've always been very kind to my girlfriends, and am generally polite and soft spoken...but I also have a temper that flares up specifically if people I care for are in danger. I've shocked some girls into breaking up with me because they didn't think I was capable of violence for some reason, even though it was in their defense. It surely is a fine line to walk.
You weren't Mr Right, just Mr Right now. They just needed an excuse. Hybristophilia is common among women. Your violence had nothing to do with it, women love power by proxy.
@@Berserkism On the other hand I've gotten into a total strangers pants just by threatening to beat a guy up for no reason but to impress her, literally said "I'll do it if you want me to." even though I wouldn't have because I don't do that kinda thing (and the guy was no match anyway). I was just drunk and messing around, but this was just bumping into strangers getting smokes at 2 am and she brought me back to her place just like that.
@@Berserkism Exactly. Both enablers and instigators of "bad" behavior are common among the more dramatic sex. Crime drama is practically porn for them.
Every girlfriend I've had has been into the "bad boys". I'm the distant, quiet, potentially violent type, so I guess I fall in the category. But I could tell that none of them ever really loved me.
I listented to this whole video with full attention, but I'm sorry, the fact that he just mentioned World of Warcraft is what I'm gonna remember the most from it xD but of course many other actually useful informations as well.
its pre selection and social proof, on top of that its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male. Also, authority and responsibility cannot be separated
I'm a woman and I'm considerably less agreeable than my female friends. The ethical utility of this is I don't go along with behavior like gossip, which women sometimes use to bond with each other. Obviously this also comes with a high social cost as I've lost several female friends for refusing to put down a fellow female behind her back. I notice that my male friends will tease each other to each other's faces - giving each other the opportunity to spar 'man to man'. Female relationships are very tricky.
Women ARE tricky (or more intelligent) I have a harder time enjoying their gossips but it is the quickest way they bond 😂 Female colleagues who don't care and are less judgemental have always been harder to find
Just have to say this really bugs me about women. Men can tease, argue, even dislike each other, but if they are up front they get over it or find a diplomatic border. But another man secretly gossiping or "being fake" is considered one of the great sins to men and will burn the bridge not with just the man they are sabotaging, but any man that hears about it. There's a pack loyalty or pecking order, even another "cool" woman can be in that order if she follows the code. Yet women have to game the system a lot, and game each other...its nearly always enemy territory, be it men on the prowl after them or other women trying to destroy them. I can see why some independent women just move to rural areas and live their own life.
I am a very agreeable woman and I never gossip and would never take down a woman as you describe. I don't understand why you think this quality is due to your being less agreeable than most women
Psychology is about hope and healing, and strengths and capacities, and respect and understanding. When I read that women are attracted to brutal selfish morons then yes - some may be. But they either come from broken homes or have unavailable fathers.
I know a girl who use to like bad guys when she was a teen. She said that she had an absent dad in her life, so she tried to get that protection from these crazy men that she use to date. She feels like someone was finally protecting her.
Bad guys, thug, gangster, mafia. Even monster. Look at Twillight series, 50 shades of grey, 365 days. Those novels profiting million dollars. If you think about it, the male leads in those novels have villain trait, and they're only nice to the female leads, and protecting the female leads while against the world. 'Heroes are martyr, they would leave you to save the world, but villains would destroy the world to save you.' I read it from somewhere, I forget, I think it is from a manga/manhwa where the female lead falling in love to the villain.
8:09 "One of the solutions to inequality are diverse games of competence hierarchies" - JP. I think this is such an insane insight. If you look at history, the more restrictive the games of status hierarchies, the less diverse the skillsets that lend an individual to status and power. Because of that restriction only a handful of talents and abilities lead someone to prosperity. In today's world, a broad set of skills can garner economic prosperity. That is definitely a form of progress.
JP is right on that. 🍻 as someone who dated anti social personality disorder for a short while when I was in my mid 20's... I've learned so much and grew up very fast after that. I don't like to blame society BUT - we need to educate young girls and boys about this. Many people get destroyed by these kind of people with ASPD without knowing what is it. When I look back - this was a hell of a shadow work for me. but now I feel like a better human being. JP's books and lectures helped as well. I hope men and women (healthy and young) will learn about it so they can give a real fight for this disorders and change the world for the better. after all, ONLY people that DON'T KNOW a thing about that reality will choose a toxic narcissistic leaders over and over for all the wrong reasons.
@@bubsnicket Nihilistic parents don't care about the children. Almost all of them don't even really care about themselves. You can observe that by their consumption behavior and their ignorance.
I have to watch this one because I've never understood it, myself. It's like Jeff Foxworthy said, you go for "bad boys" in real life and all you'll get for it is being on an episode of Cops, in a tube-top, yelling out a trailer window, "LOCK HIS ASS UP!"
The issue with Dark Triad, is that creates a social leaders uncapable of empathy. Which basically creates a toxic behavior that is followed by those who are part of the social group (usually this behavior is camouflaged with the title of "joke"). This type of groups usually are common in teenagers, but is not extinguished in adults. Those type of social groups and behaviors, show us, that is not only usefull but necessary to have a "bad guy" on your inner self, for survival reasons and self-protection. Good leaders show submissive behaviors intentionally towards social interaction in order to make others around confortable, such as giving the upper hand on the handshake, compliments and serving people. You may wonder why is that. Because they have a higher sense of empathy than usual people, they are also confident on themselves, so make sure that if you're not the leader, that the leader of your social group, has those types of characteristics (White Triad). And remember yourself, even if you are the leader of the group, there are times that you must give the lead to someone, this, is what makes you special, because you know that you're not the best on every single aspect of your life, and often, you give people the lead in order to get the best knowledge and/or result for the group/yourself.
Essentially, JP has in this podcast and others, furthered the idea that some young women are unable to distinguish between the badboy and what they really want, the alpha. Whereas the badboy not only is formidable to others, but is dangerous to himself, for either lack of self control or intelligence, puts himself in harms way, ultimately negatively affecting the security and protection of females
I think the appeal of the 'bad boy' is more the realisation from an early age that the world is a pretty dark, harsh, cruel place, so there's an instinct to be attracted to someone who isn't afraid to fight off potential enemies...It's more of a protective, survival instinct trait, especially if you grow up in a remote, rural place. It's about being attracted to men who have the strength to fight off threats in the wild...
I think its more about the biological need for security a woman needs out of the early awareness of her significantly weaker physical body and personality. Woman tend to feel fear way more often than men. Sometimes, it is sound and reasonable, as woman get sexually harassed more often than men, and gain more physical damage in physical fight. And other times are just projected delusions from similar experiences. Bottom line is that world isn’t necessarily a harsh place for everybody. I for example am a big guy in terms of height and width. I rarely fear anybody or anything, and I have never perceived the world as a harsh place. I think women prefer these type of “bad” guys, because they internally believe they can provide them with a sense of safety and security.
@@mido222100 so as a woman i can tell you a joke What I've noticed is that Whenever i have seen a guy dominate or bully another man I've been turned on by him But whenever I've seen him attack any woman it was a huge red flag It Love it when a man stands up for me takes care of me and protects me Feminism is bullshit
fortunately he doesn't have any need to... he's arguably one of the most well known and respected men in the western world today because of his ability to articulate complex problems... he's not going to lower himself to clickbate like a RUclips noob trying to scratch a few pennies from ads
I'm not near as deep and articulate as Jordan Peterson, but I would say I sway to being analytical and thoughtful. I like to know how things work, this includes people. One of the toughest challenges I can speak to is to really know my "self". It's easy to look at others and be objective and subsequently critical of their thoughts and actions. It can be very challenging to self-reflect on things you've said and done. What is/was my motivation? What am I wanting to obtain/attain? I don't know how many times I've been told by people that I think too much. I reply by saying they think too little and I have to balance the scale. Even if you don't consider yourself to be a religious person nor become one, I would still advise people to read the Bible. It is full of many insightful ideas that lead to obtaining wisdom.
'How not so good looking stand up comedians get laid'... The power of being the center of attention in a large crowd and expressing a level of power. 😁
Don't you think women use these opportunities to find better men? I highly doubt they'll stick with unattractive guys for long (if they ste attractive)....they just enjoy the ride and the social opportunities that come with it
I believe the fine edge for a man Is to be strong and weak with and for his woman at the appropriate times and knowing when those are. Mixing them up leads to confusion followed by rejection
There was a book I read about sex in history, talking about the human brain evolution and drives. One part suggested that the female human subconsciously is seeking to find a suitable mate that can protect and provide, whilst also creating the strongest offspring. The book laid out that humans are animals and just like animals, they seek the survival of the fittest. It even talked about scent, not perfume or deodorant but our natural scent that can literally attract or repel a potential mate, because we have the ability to be attracted scent wise to another who have diverse genetics that compliment our own. The book suggested that the reason females go for the "bad boy" is because a part of our selection process for a mate is seeking the strongest and best survival for our offspring. The "bad boy" is, in part, seen a strong, dominant male, that can defend themselves and therefore defend them, however misguided that may be. In my twenties, when i read this book, it was a revelation understanding why some of my friends were attracted to the bad boy or even abusive male, because a subconscious part of them saw them as strong genetics for offspring potentially. I understood better the drive for the attraction, which seemed to make sense to me.
This kinda proves that this issue will never go away. I've never talked to a woman who actually realises this irl. Evolution will intervene at the subconscious level no matter how hard you try to avoid it. It's unfair to the nice guys, in terms of sexual availability.....but still a part of nature. Nature will always be unfair in other words. Then again, beeing a badboy has it's downsides too. I think most young guys praise this status too much, and emphasize short term gratification more than long term gains. Only solution is life experience basically.
I don't think I explained myself clearly and you therefore misunderstood. I do not believe a abusive male is dominant, strong etc, it is more that in the book it talked about the subconscious confusing such a male as potential strong offspring. What i took from this idea was a better understanding why someone would stay with an abusive male whilst proclaiming "I love him though" as a reason. My mother taught me " just because you love someone, doesn't mean they are right for you" a saying that stuck with me always.
Right, this is a very uncomfortable reality for decent young men, but the question is - is the answer or the solution to acquire those dark but somehow desirable traits? Men have bad experiences and heartbreaks stemming from them being the nice, decent guy and the woman losing interest, cheating with someone with those traits, or rejects the 'good' guy. But should we give in to this sad structure and play into the type of man or just try to find a woman that actually appreciates the 'good', nice traits?
No. 1) because the inevitable cognitive dissonance will make you unhappy. 2) even tho it may get you sex, it will get you sex with the type of women that are the origin of the phrase "don't put your dick in crazy". They'll get pregnant and then you'll be the one getting fucked.
We all have desires and fantasies. But the right woman will love you for who you are and overcome that urge to chase a guy who gives a shot about her. Women who can’t, eventually will give up on you anyway, because there is always someone embodying those „bad“ traits more than you do. Just my two cents…
Do what you wish but you'll always be inferior and have a lack of true power if you don't give in to those dark traits. True power comes when you can manipulate those dark traits to your will.
So women get bored with kindness but commit to toxicity? Wouldn’t she get tired of the toxicity as well? Do women even know or are aware of what they want are do they go with what feels good despite the logic behind it?
I was more mature when I met my husband (later 20s). I looked for someone who valued me for friendship as well as for romance. We've been married since 1983 and we still love each other's company!
7:56 so true. My friends and I all worked at the movie theater together and we would have tournaments. Everybody was good at their own respective gamer. I was unbeatable at NFL Blitz. All of the tournaments were happening, but when the Blitz one came around, they excluded me because I knew how to block field goals and they just couldn't beat me. 25 years later, they're still denying that it was just because I was that good. So yeah, that hierarchy comment about video games is spot, among the rest of the convo. I just remember them exiling me from the competition and I had to watch all of the lessers play Blitz knowing I could have obliterated them! Oh yeah, Crusin USA too!
May be an unrelated point but if you don't go after the girl then you will almost always end up with someone who you had a chance of saying no to, you had a choice. If you desire someone and are overwhelmingly attracted to them then you will not give yourself that choice, and therefore there will be more staying power in the relationship in the case of how attracted you are to them. Far too many people end up in relationships because they are approached and say 'fuck it', how fucking crazy is that?
I’m higher in dark triad traits than I would like. I’m not a good person, but I have worked seriously hard on becoming a good man, with a fair degree of success, I think. To the point of even running off to a monastery for a few years. Tbh, one of the things that I have really struggled with is knowing how much more successful I was with women before vs now. It planted a lot of insecurity in me that all of my work was in vain, and that what I’ve become really isn’t what women want, in spite of what they may think or claim. I don’t know if I’ve found an answer for myself better than, “you do this for yourself, not for them”.
@@proudatheist2042 I was an emotionally manipulative, lying, cheating, stealing, womanizer. I exploited peoples trust, compassion, my looks and charms to get what I wanted. Arrogant, and proud of it. Verbally fluent, intellectually powerful, and physically intimidating and I enjoyed dominating people that I perceived as less intelligent and commanding attention. How I changed is a long story. I hated being that way, and availed myself of every form of conventional psychiatric and psychotherapeutic practice. The monastery really straightened me out, saved my life, my sanity, and my soul. Grounding my attention in my body, getting out of my head. Increasing my awareness of my speech, noticing more and more when I was lying and how that made me feel (Peterson’s work helped a lot with that). Unplugging from social media and detoxing all my other addictions, resetting at a healthy baseline. Meaningful work in a community of spiritual support. The monks and nuns had a practice called “shining light” where they would give you critical feedback on your practice or moral development. Insanely useful. Staying celibate and learning to discipline my impulses. Prayer and metta meditation to increase compassion for others. Guided meditations to heal childhood traumas.
If you really believe you've become a much better man (in terms of mind, attitude and ethics/empathy, NOT muscles, clothes & money) and women don't like you anymore, then you simply need to stop wasting your time liking THEM, that's all. They're vapid and there's nothing worth liking. Fucking maybe, but not being fond of in the affectionate attachment sense.
Thank you for sharing. It’s great to hear about men like yourself who are self-aware and proactive enough to do something about the traits they don’t like in themselves. Want to touch on what you said about not getting as many women - though they may be lower in quantity, it’s definitely higher in quality because of the work you did for yourself. I’m struggling in the same way, to get rid of unhealthy behavior to get men’s attention, and I know I’ll get less attention from men as a result, but more attention from the men that are good for me and likes me as a whole vs for my looks. Basically saying, don’t let that determine your progress, because what you’ve accomplished is so impressive, the woman suited for you, who have done the work herself, would surely see that be attracted to it.
I wasn’t really “attracted” to bad boys. I never had the confidence or self worth to date a real man. I didn’t think I was good enough. I was immature so I got with immature, selfish men who acted nice at first and then after I was emotionally invested and they figured out that I was too nice and forgiving and could get away with abusing and using me, they treated me badly by manipulating and gaslighting me.
@@masteryoda1258 I didn’t feel good enough or have enough confidence to get with an attractive guy either. Good looking men like confident women, whether they are pretty or not.
In the reverse direction, there are men who are attracted to mixed-up women. This also should be a discussion as a common mystery to more level-headed people. Dealing with a partner’s heavy baggage/issues is a tough burden, and not worth it in initial stage relationships. Don’t let yourselves be dragged down into another’s hell in first meeting even a physically attractive person. Of course nobody really likes a Don Draper, someone who constantly takes advantage of mixed-up women-even Don disliking himself-in the fictional _Mad Men_ series about him.
@@Maga2024lul A messiah complex fails at all levels, whether in everyday relationships or as far as in power ambition in leading a country. I see it as egocentric, with a dark side of grabbing for gratification in taking advantage of others. That’s why I mentioned the Don Draper case in relationships. It can lead to criminality in those seeking power. Cult of personality is an extreme case among those seeking power. People should be guided by consistent, internalized, self-disciplined principles, not by personalities/people.
@@EK14MeV I don't mean in order to seek validation for myself but to give myself away. What I mean by that is what you said. Them principles ,discipline and hard truths is what I've been building daily. To give that away is why I believe it works.
@@proudatheist2042 I've been married 10 years going on 11 September and I've had many breaking points but once I dealt with my ego, I can see clear to help my wife build a team rather then destroy it you feel me? My mom isba hustler that's always worked. Always been the glue and the guru of the family. I hope that answers that question.
I think it's not that women "like bad guys". It's just that high status men with good genes that are clearly expressed (good looking), can afford not to be nice. And not being nice often costs less energy than being nice. They are spoiled for choice, so it doesn't matter as much if bad behaviour shies a few women away. If a man is ugly and unsuccessful and treats women bad, he's not considered a "bad boy" he's simply considered a creep and undesirable. It's only good looking men that receive this terminology.
That's interesting because I believe we live in a time with the most diverse amounts of status hierarchy and ways to be respected yet people seem to be at their unhappiest.
"Really low agreeableness, high consciousness types are really quite interesting because you can trust them because they'll do their duty, but they're very direct and blunt and harsh and that can be very helpful as well because they'll tell you unpleasant truths even if you hurt your feelings, so there's some utility in that." I just wanted to type this out for other people because he said this so quickly that I couldn't follow when I heard it.
That’s a blessing. Im hoping to find some one like that. That isn’t attractive to bad boys. Im a nice guy. But certain not a bad boy. This society is messed up on how relationships are brought up as a show off. Vs human beings that actually give a damn about people in general.
It annoys how some stupidly on why the girls I like are interested in bad boys. People should be wiser instead of wanting to get hurt from being interested by the bad boys.
I remember back when I got out of college and got my first job, industrial sales. Three piece suit, company car, company paid travel, many perks, company credit card, very good income. I was also single and had really no problem in attracting younger women, early 20's, as I was also in my early 20's. However, I was somewhat unsure of myself, since I was just starting out in the real world, and was told by some to "fake it until you make it." Looking back, I wonder if my inability to develop a lasting relationship was that the women eventually saw through my facade?
Dark Triad: 1. Narcissism = Confidence/Self-esteem - 2. Machiavelianism = Competitive/Success-driven 3. Psychopathy = Adamance/determination/resilience to being controlled by emotions and other people
I would like to add my experience in life. I am 43. I was raised by a narcissistic abusive father and a loving mother who taught me to be nice. So I learned how to be a monster in a sense and how to be kind to women. I was small and weak as a child until 15-16 yrs of age. I was picked on and had very little success with women. I have to learn how to talk and be funny/charming to have any discourse with women. I started lifting weights wrestling and competing in boxing. Fast forward 20 years. I am 6’2 210 lbs. I have a shaved head and a beard and I am pretty muscular with tattoos. Every time I was nice to women I was borderline abused. When I learned to focus on myself. My physical mental and spirituAl health, women naturally gravitated towards me but on my terms. I will also add, do not mistake kindness with weakness. I am still very kind to all but if pushed to a certain place, capable of almost unrelenting violence. BecAuse I spent so long being nice, I also was fixated on violence in the recesses of mind. I learned to be capable of violence through 20 years of trAining/fighting. I dont want to use it per se but I wouldnt mind it. Watch out for the quiet nice guys. They often hide the monster inside.
Do not mistake kindness for weakness. And muscle is only one form of strength. We live like pond-life these days - no true depth in our appreciation of life and gratitude. These unhappy women will go on being unhappy as life is all about them. They give not. They will be alone, childless, and ugly and old.
I’m a narcissist who’s aware of his condition for nearly a decade and I find their argument accurate per my experience with women. It has always been easy to impress women way out of my league but sustaining a relationship has been quite a challenge. And to add onto the young women argument, narcissistic or not , every men instinctively desire women in their prime for biological reasons. Narcissists tend to be the ones to say f you to the cultural norms and pursue their desires while others limit their reach to the age groups that’s not out of the ordinary.
Yeah I had that ezperience in my teenage years. Tbh its not hard to play the bad boy game and get attention. the difficult part is keeping someone long term and avoiding burning out
How much do a person's external physical traits affect their mating behavior? I don't think of a bad boy being stuck in an unattractive body would be very successful so I think they have to develop other qualities which can pay off in the long term.
It's 100%. Bad boy only works for attractive men. Everything you do as an unattractive bad boy is 'creepy', 'weird' or 'insulting'. Many people would come up with bad counter example. This may result in some categories. (1) They don't really know how to evaluate attractiveness ex: Men may consider Justin Bieber as unattractive. No, men don't get to judge their attractiveness just like women don't get to give themselves a 10. There are traits that women would consider attractive. Justin Bieber falls into like 9/10 and the last one isn't a major flaw. (2) Physical attractiveness is strongly related to your genetics and not your outfit or haircut. Attractive men can compensate a bad haircut or outdated fashion (Retro), but not the other way. (3) They think money and status can compensate their attractiveness. No, money and status are a great boost, but money only makes him a well provider and status is only served for her exposure. Money and status are exaggerated. Women can make money nowadays. They don't have to settle for the fear of starvation, and they have social media for exposure. On the surface, all is good, and he has a happy family. Deep down what she really wants is for him to raise her and the attractive men's children so they can go on a date. He owes her even though he pays for almost everything. Most men would be astonished by how much women are willing to pay when they go on a date with an attractive man (Don't worry. I only see it through my own eyes). They can be in prison, broke or all the reasons women would use when they reject an unattractive man. They set rules for 6s and break it for the 9s and 10s. (4) First serve bias. Meaning the women is on her first date or early days of dating. She does not really know her value and you are lucky to be a 6 while all other men are 4s. This is almost dead due to Apps like Tinder, Facebook...etc. (5) Wrong timeframe. He was a bad boy, and he was attractive. People thought time freezes and the bad boy is still working. No, the women is freaking out and wants to leave the relationship as soon as possible. (6) False Media Impressions. ex: Hollywood nerdy vibes. Jesse Eisenberg is thought of as a nerd. No, he is extremely attractive just lower when put aside Henry Cavill. (7) Attractiveness is subjective. No, it's just there are other factors that can create preference. Most women would prefer a pretty boy in her early days but chooses a Chad as time goes on. Maturity is just one of the factors. There are many more. (8) Women claims they don't care about looks. Do you still believe what they say by now? There are some other categories, but looks is 100%
Like learning to refrain from crime and staying out of jail? Related to physical traits or psychological? Celebrities are not bad boys. They are “make believes” another step down from “wannabes”
I’m glad Jordan spoke on how it is often young and naive women who fall for dark triads. I would also like to add that sometimes it’s not that women go for overt bad guys. Sometimes the bad guy carries himself as a kind hearted, community beacon (who uses love bombing as a technique to secure his supply) behind closed doors it’s a different story. This is why it’s useless to ask why women choose abusive men, they don’t... there’s exceptions or course but often its not the intention. This can apply in reversed roles. Men can be abused and love bombed by manipulative women. This is why personal introspection and responsibility is essential in order to acknowledge our personal weaknesses and why we are subconsciously drawn to deceptive forms of the dark triad personalities . It is our job to reckon with our personal issues.
You’re probobly drawn to them because they’re more physically attractive and that’s part of the reason they don’t really care about anyone other than themselves. There’s not as much consequences for them behaving badly. Same as really attractive girls oftentimes being mostly ego.
@@AR-rn8ok Not necessarily. In fact I personally avoided physically attractive types particularly because of the reputation that is associated with them. The irony is that I was not initially attracted to the man the wound up being abusive. It turns out hidden insecurities can be just as destructive. I think we assume attractive guys can get any girl they like and use manipulation and charm in the process due to the confidence. This might be true to a point. However a man or women who has deep insecurities regardless of their physical attributes can be destructive on an entirely different level.
No. Your so dumb you think a polite evil person is confident and great. You compared authentic confident men, to evil like confident men. One is more sparkly and kiss butt, yet teases you. That’s your con man. Normal confident guys don’t really tease chicks. Also you gals like to play above your game level… so pump n dump is something you run to because you gamble you can take a dude who doesn’t really like you that much as a challenge. Face it. We’re a mess in the West. Great grandmas n grandpas are the best to vet dates… not ourselves.
I hear a lot of people say you have to treat a woman like trash if you want them to stay. Or they will take advantage of you if your kind. I can't believe that.
You hear lots of people saying that because the majority of society is filled with shallow superficial people. There are lots of broken men and women, creating this hellish cycle
Helena nista had replied to this idea in one of her comment section. What she said is right. If the woman is still staying with you even if you treat her like trash, then she must be a weak woman. But that trash treatment won't works to a dominating or toxic woman. They'll destroy you; means, they make you penniless or lock you in a prison.
Jordan, kudos on your last few podcasts! It seems that your topics took a little dip in the recent past (mostly of political nature). It's good to see you taking steps into the unknown in fields where you have a vast amont of knowledge to begin with and please, do a psychological analysis of the New Testament asap, you're a great curator! Lastly, you said you were working on a new book? Can you give us a few details? Thanks, Matt ✌️
Very rarely does a person change their basic nature. A bad boy will still be a bad boy. He just gets better at hiding it and controlling it.....or not.
@@FoxcHoney This is a general female mindset (wanting to fix the bad boy, which generally blows up in their face) Generally the moment they manage to "change" the bad boy into a good boy, they lose interest in him. If you're a guy reading this Its a shit test, the things that they want to fix about you are they very things that attracted them to you in the first place.
It sounds to me like you have dark triad tendencies yourself. You chased bad boys because you wanted their validation the most. You didn't do it to help heal them. You did it for personal gain. Girls like you are what I call the 'clingers'. No matter how much I try to get rid of you, you will always come back for more.
I really do not get why some ppl on the left hate Jordan. Ive never seen him hate on women or any group. He tries to analyze people and from everything ive seen help ppl make their lives better. Yet he gets these "gotcha" questions then his thoughtful responses are taken out of context. Seriously anyone who thinks jordan is some danger to society needs 2 listen to him. He is a scientist with knowledge in hierarchies. I just hate how ppl just attack him because he is against laws forcing language. Yet they think he is against lgbtq/etc. Except he is not he is just very knowledgeable of societies who have destroyed themselves by making so many laws and turning its population on each other. OPEN UR MIND listen to people u "think" dont share your beliefs. Bet my life ull find something to learn or at very least question your own beliefs. You should challenge yourself regularly. If you only listen too/watch ppl who "agree" with you , you're going down the wrong road
Whatever what was wrong with religion in the Dark Ages, is now appearing again today in the Left wing groups (LGBT, BLM, Green energy, etc wokeism). Close mindedness, useful idiots & profiteering activists.
They don't like him because he bases his arguments on objective reasoning and empirical data and in doing so, his arguments invalidate the erroneous world view of leftists who have a subjective perspective that frequently fail reality tests, namely that they are permanent victims of an oppressive society. Much like how a teenager will resent their parents during a rebellious phase for trying to instil discipline (which is important and will help the teenager), leftists resent Peterson because he tells it like it is, rather than how leftists wish it ought to be. This is probably confronting and even disturbing to leftists because their entire world view and subsequent ideals for the world are concerned with ameliorating or protecting their emotional deficiencies and the weaknesses of others. M. Scott Peck wrote a book called "People of the Lie" wherein he made the case that human evil can be defined as those who attack others instead of facing their own failures and I believe that succinctly describes what modern Leftism/Wokism is as an ideology - attacking other people and ideas whilst trying to change society and the world so it doesn't elicit negative emotional feelings in the individual. The solution here is the same solution that Peterson espouses; it's not a matter of changing the world to be this or that, it's about taking responsibility for yourself and your life and choosing to become a stronger person i.e growing the fuck up. Leftists will simply never accept that they are ironically the custodians of their own suffering and that maturity is the answer to their problems because change is uncomfortable and difficult, often painfully so, but remains one of the most important endeavours in life - whereas blaming other people for your own weaknesses and shortcomings is easy and requires no effort on your part. TL;DR Leftists hate Peterson because they are emotionally children and refuse to grow up because it's difficult
Women never stop being attracted to these traits, they just understand that these kind of people are not likely to commit. The same way men put less emphasis on a woman's looks as they get older, but they never stop being attracted to them
Yea...i think the married people here are deluding themselves by saying its usually the young women that fall for it and that women just want the protector or provider. As someone with nearly every symptom of all three of the triad its actualy laughable. For background I've never had a stable job situation, I'm not exceptionally attractive or tall and I'm many times quite shy. The only thing im exceptional in is having a charismatic presence that seems pull them in pull them in like a tractor beam. It's almost magical. In my experience it doesnt matter whether they're in a relationship or married whatsoever. I just think women NEED to be put in their place by men but our society is reaching total emasculation especially in the younger generations so women are GASPING for it . I cant tell you how many times women who I barely know or just met have asked me to slap them or choke them. I actually dont even like it but they almost always demand it. In my experience older women generaly do know im most definitely not for a relationship but they're happy to play with fire regardless. I think we all know this but are very uncomfortable with the true reality of female nature. " I am afraid that woman appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters, all the same. They love being dominated." Oscar wilde
@@avapilsen I haven't provided scientific evidence just like these men haven't. It's observation. Women never truly like bad boys because they're bad, they just like their characteristics - risk taking, confidence, willingness to go against the grain, they normally find it harder/impossible to push around "bad boys" as compared to "nice guys" etc. Paieed with decent/high intelligence I'd say that vast majority of fortune 500 CEOs actually have these traits, yet they aren't exactly bad boys. Think Harvey Spector. I hope this answer is to your satisfaction. I'm actually interested in having a civil discourse with you.
@@monkeydotbizness Your are exceptionally attractive for that to happen , don't dailude your self on how your personality matters . If you ugly u ugly .And if you don't have access to the social circles that women tipically hang out u would be alone . Congratulations on your sexual conquest , but I think it's about other reasons , and to add to that very good social awareness and ability to socialize .
Very interesting topic and it helps me understand current dating. For myself I always had quite the disgust against people with these dark triad traits (especially narcissism paired up with low consciousness) and/or fell prey to them (like manipulative people). I would really like to know what we can do as individuals and as a society to contain their damage. In my teens I was just too young to understand what's going on social hierarchy wise so I always ended up making myself the outsider.. Now it's rather the opposite as I'm aware of all these concepts (thanks JBP!). But there is also not a single word about the Womens agency. Wouldn't it be the womens responsibility to incentivize more "good men" (acc. JBP's definition) than Dark Triad men too? Responsibility must taken on by both sides otherwise the game can't work.
This isn't an academic exercise. A political scientist published a paper several decades ago in which he commented on the "feminization" of politics in the West (his word). He stated that there appeared to be an increased emphasis on superficiality and externalities rather than issues. So things like whether the candidate was good looking, or had nice hair, or said nice things were becoming more important than what the candidate did or his/her policies. For me, this single paper explains 100% why western civilization is on the verge of collapse.
Heard that before. A young girl that I worked with years ago said when she went to vote she asked if they had any pictures of the candidates because she wanted to vote for "the cute ones" SMH
An early part of the feminine Individuation process may be at work when you see young women attracted to men with these “dark triad” traits. Particularly in young women who experienced rejection by their father (or both parents). Many young women become chronic “givers” and constellate “takers” around them, over giving is as toxic as over taking. These young women often live in a pattern of pouring everything they have into an unhealthy relationship, mirroring whatever that other person wants them to be until there is absolutely nothing left of themselves. It’s at that point a woman with this sort of problem can find her own self worth and stop “casting pearls before swine”.
I wish I had learned my lesson about the dark triad type when I was young. Married one when I was 18 and and another when I was 38. Devastating effects both times. I do have a tendency to be very naïve. Although I must admit, the second time I knew and I married him anyway. I told myself that it would be OK, and the good would outweigh the bad. Very naïve decision.
Great chat, although complicated to follow even for psychologists. My concern is, why you repeatedly refer to the big 5 traits? From neuropsychology or neuroscience we can arguably add more traits (e.g. impulsivity). Why still using the big 5 when personality characterization can be more fine grained?
I think Peterson would argue the other psychological traits are emergent from the basic 5. That is the other traits don't correlate independent of the big 5.
I was 17 and I was kind of attracted to this guy (19) where I worked. He didn't talk much or interact with fellow workmates, but one evening a workmate brought some beers to celebrate his birthday and, after half a glass, this guy started reciting Mark Antony's soliloquy. I had never known a teenage boy of my acquaintance who seemed to have a passing acquaintance with Shakespeare. He caught my attention big time. Two years later we married, 50 years this coming December. His looks caught my attention, but his intelligence sealed the deal. He has a gentle nature but could be dangerous in the right circumstances. We complement each other in our strengths and weaknesses.
Holy sh…I just wrote a 19 chapter book on this. I’m pretty late to the party…still putting it out especially with what’s happening today but I have another layer I think may help understand it a little more. Thanks for being you sir, very big inspiration for me studying psychology today.
All is fair in love and war. People have a misconception of what leadership is? They think it is the person who can shout the loudest or be the most intimidating. Interrupt, berate or belittle other people. It is not. They are just bullies.
@Randall Slaughter we used to take a stand against bullies as individuals e.g. if a kid was being bullied, he'd have to fight his bully and earn his right not to be bullied. Today we tell "authority" and the bullying usually continues, the kid grows up with low self esteem, kills himself or moves schools.
@Randall Slaughter look, now more than ever adults are working more. They won't have the time and energy to be a parent outside of providing for them. You have to help your children defend themselves. Bullying doesn't finish with school, it carries onto the work place too. I'm not sure why you're making this person, let's keep it rational like men. The kids in school shootings are kids who went through long episodes of bullying and didn't do anything about it. You have to step up the moment you're being bullied, once bullies see a victim, it's over for you. There is no fairy godmother that's going to change the bullies mind, it's up to you to solve your problems.
I’m an old man now, but when I was young I was always told to be nice to women - to go above and beyond to make them feel valued, cared for, and appreciated. All that brought was a lot of heartbreak. I eventually got married to an “adult infant” (as Jordan would refer to her) and ended up losing about $300k and equal access to my son in the process. I was and continue to be terribly abused, but that doesn’t matter because I’m a man. The lesson learned? Don’t ever be a “nice guy”. Instead, be kind and always focus on becoming the best version of yourself while being considerate of others’ needs (I.e., don’t place the needs of others above your own). Never, ever chase women. Chase your dreams and women will naturally come to you because of your confidence and success. Then the trick becomes how to screen out those who want you for the wrong reasons (and that will be most of them). For you younger guys, once you understand that you have little-to-no inherent value as a man, and that what really matters instead is what you provide, life will make much more sense to you.
glad you diddent do a full 180 well done sir wel done!
I'm immensely grateful for your invaluable nuggets of wisdom sir. Wishing you good health and prosperity. Thank you dear sir.
Well said Scotty
No man has become a man until he can LEARN to say "NO" to his wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, cousin or female "friend."
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Kind and wise, I hope I can relay this to my children.
I liked how he pointed out the important detail that it's mostly young (and therefore inexperienced) women that fall for the badboys.
This is why older men go for younger girls bc they know they can manipulate them.
@@proudatheist2042 naw alot of that with women who are more mature than an 18y. I've been the 18y with a 40y
@@kristinec212 Men being drawn to pretty and fertile is like women preferring tall and competent: just a fact of life.
It's the young that have all the juice though, so who cares
@@JustineBrownsBookshelf do you consider being attracted to a 13y ok?
I became the nice guy in my marriage. I began to cook, clean and care for our children more than she did. This was on top of me working 50-60 hours a week. Because of this, I let myself go, lost myself and became completely codependent on her for love and attention. Eventually she lost interest in me, cheated and nuked the family. She basically didn't love or respect me for it. It's been bittersweet; I lost my family and the years I invested. However, glad to not be dealing with such a condescending and selfish woman anymore.
I bet women cheat much more than men nowadays...
Shame on her for losing such a caring person.
I feel you bud. More power to you!!
@@pokemonitishere202 Thank you, I appreciate that.
@@redpilllense7125 Sorry to hear that brother. However I have experienced a similar situation. Not quite as severe but I'd like to add that women will always need to be "checked". I myself have let things slide in the past with women and just like your situation they slowly start to resent you for it. With that being said with the next woman make sure you check her on it. If she's not holding her own let her know and don't be afraid to walk away if she refuses to change. They want to know that you're a strong man and the only way to do that is to test you. You pass these tests by not tolerating their BS. She oversteps her boundaries she gets checked, she doesn't change she gets cut off. Simple and effective formula.
Sounds like you caused the issues, why would you do that to yourself? Low esteem?
I remember watching a documentary on the Night Stalker who was a serial killer. He had a ton of women sending him marriage requests and falling for him, this and that. A nurse working in the same prison at that time called them, and I quote "The dumbest bitches I ever met in my life."
Sounds like the women were trauma bonded to the guy.
Based nurse.
@@mirandabrunskill7755 Justifications.
@Medea Cassandra Logos I think It's because of the intentions of just having fun in which bad boys will provide. Sure, they're not good partners, but there are girls who want thrill and fun which obviously isn't the boring, yet sensible person people would usually settle with.
@Medea Cassandra Logos well different people have different definitions of the word "fun". Some people think Netflix and chill is fun, others think running red lights and shooting a gun out of the window is fun. 🤷♂️ People are complex.
I once had a friend who had the bad habit of occasionally and unguardedly dropping rarely-heard truth bombs. She once said, "Listen: the qualities that make for a good husband and father are not exciting to date." It was fascinating to overlay that statement with this discussion.
Equally true of women, I think. Who would make for a good mother vs who would be fun for tonight.
@@alexandercamlin8889 true but not to the same extent. “Who would be fun for tonight” might be that adorable Catholic girl who’s never done anything illegal in her life lol.
Translation: she will be settling with you, you will be boring for her, she will dream about more exciting men.
:)
@@fakename3208 Most prople haven't done anything illegal in their life, where do you live? lol
I disagree with your friend. A good father needs to be a leader.
I very much enjoy when Dr Peterson speaks to someone in his own field. He's so good at explaining his wealth of knowledge in simple terms, it's staggering to hear complex psychological matters discussed with an equal mind, while still being relatable. We live in such a blessed time to have access to these discussions.
Yes on all counts. Great point. Thank you
Beautifully put.
He has such a sophisticated way of articulating himself. He wouldn't be able to speak this way if he hadn't been obsessed for decades in the pursuit of truth.
Nice coment bro jajaja fr
@@Noughtgate nah that’s just from reading books
When I was a 'nice guy' I never had women chase me instead I was the one going to them. It wasn't until I began working on a career through higher education while also working out, essentially bettering myself, that I found women approaching me. It was strange at first but once I realized success and real confidence that you could back up was the true attraction, my life was changed. Be good or even great instead of nice, and don't be a 'bad boy' because that is just a phase for women not something long-term.
You must have a good face. I'm 6'3" 200 lbs 11% bodyfat. My free testosterone is at the 98th percentile. I've never had a women approach nor show interest. I have a masters degree and 2 BS degrees. Women appreciate hard work from an attractive man....not so much from an ugly man. Women highly value the confidence from an attractive man. Not so much from an ugly man. Everything is a pattern or a probability
@@hurlentropy6866 you know everything at last comes down to face structure or physical beauty of the person whom you wanna date
That's why almost all girl teens love BTS.
Be the best man you can be and women will chase, a thing they actually like to do.
@@leftyloose8576 They will chase only when you look sufficiently attractive to them. It starts with the physical. Every variable is connected to it.
A confident attractive male induces a much stronger emotional response from.a women than an ugly confident male....validation and reward is key
@@hurlentropy6866 Kinda same here bro , food bachelor degree 6'1 good job , had been working out for years , and I'm invisible to women , lol all these people are talking bs . And some of my friends , no money , no muscle , short .Gets way more girls , dude is simply more attractive .
As an indigenous Egyptian woman who grew up in an isolated area in the deep south of Egypt, I have never seen, met or heard of ONE female around me who tolerated a ''bad boy' let alone fell for him. It's a Western phenomenon among Western women and those who uphold their values. I have been living in the UK for twenty years and it is still a cultural shock for me. Although I have seen similar pattern among affluent Egyptian women in large cities, and Egyptian girls from broken homes or with unavailable fathers.
What type of guys are the women from that area into? What traits are desirable?
I'm curious, I live in an African city with a whole bunch of cultures. The most dominant is Western, but I have South East Asian heritage. These different groups tend to have different preference
This is not true. The "bad boy" in Egyptian culture is simply the loudest, most attractive, most pious ( appearing ) man. It's the same thing in different cultural clothing. Please don't confuse the psychology with the cultural manifestation.
In a culture where strict monogamy is practiced, this type of man will gravitate towards becoming a religious figure, or wealthy, so he can break the rules secretly.
@@timothyblazer1749
Well, in the Eastern world, the marriages are usually arranged.
So it's the Parents who select the husband.
And sex outside marriage is a big no-no.
@@bestdjaf7499 The dominance of arranged marriages is highly exaggerated.
@@timothyblazer1749 You're right about the 'bad boy' appeal going somewhere else, but you're also wrong about what is appealing and why
Girls don't like bad boys because they "break rules"
Lift weights, eat clean, save money & find a groom/style that works well on you. A man optimizes his attractiveness by getting his life in order and being physically fit.
Plus nice teeth and shoes
And that's actually real thing what you say than what "evolutionary psychology" prays.
@@clair233 that would go under groom/style.. I'll just add good hygiene for the teeth lol
@@nimrylchee8796 May I suggest church attendance, if that is ok with you, it's possibly the best place to find access to a caring social circle, perhaps even romance, but I wouldn't focus on that, it seems like chasing it makes it elusive. All the best to you.
@@nimrylchee8796 I apologize for my comment above, my raw emotions got the best of me. I don't think nihilism is an acceptable answer for anything at all, with time and dedication good this will eventually come along brother. Wish you happiness
I absolutely love how Dr Peterson separates the video into subtopics. This gives us the benefit of optimizing our time by allowing us to match subtopics to maximum interest level.
That's a very verbose way of saying "thanks for providing shorter clips of your longer videos"
@stephencarlsbad 🤯🤯🤯 no way!
That response sounds like Jordan Peterson himself
I love it when I can learn a huge amount of information from just comment section of Jordan's videos. Thanks everyone for their opinion.
Why are you talking like a robot
Hi Dr. Peterson, you might not read this as this will probably get drowned in this sea of comments, but I just wanna share to you that I recently became a fan of yours. I discovered you through youtube shorts. I'm a teenager girl, Muslim, living in a small city in the Philippines. I discovered that you have a book called 12 Rules for Life, so I saved my money despite being jobless😂, ordered your book online and waited patiently for about 10 days. I'm not a bookish person, and your book was the first ever book I've ever purchased in my whole life so far. The excitement that I felt while waiting was comparable to that of a 7 year old waiting for her ultimate birthday gift. I'm currently reading it, and I've been enjoying it so far because I'm learning a lot. Thank you Dr. Peterson, after watching your videos on YT, I've become so much more motivated to pursue the career that I want. I really hope my message reaches you. :') ❤️
Good for you Marshmellow 👍🏻
Such a lovely comment. I'm happy for you
Oh a fellow Muslim on Dr. Peterson's videos, how lovely
Something tells me that you being a teenage girl thinking the way you are and reading great books, means you are going on to great things in this world. Very good.
Happy to see a fellow Filipino here, and I'm really grateful that we teenagers were able to stumble upon and watch Dr. Peterson's videos. I also agree on what's the feeling of reading his book 12 rules for life. I'm also thankful for him somehow his words we able to save me and I feel thankful for him.
Im just a 23 yo kid compared to u guys but im amazed of yall for the sharing so no one would get murdered like what ya ve been through
Really appreciate that
The most important thing to me that Peterson pushes is that we ignore our instictive biological/psychological imperatives at our peril. There are forces in our culture that are trying to redefine some of those instincts out of existence instead of contextualizing them into civilization. In the process they are pitting our human need to belong against our biological/psychological nature. It's no wonder that depression, addiction, and suicide is running rampant. How else to cope with being at war with one's self? The only ones more or less free of that conflict will be the rebels and antisocial sorts whose instinct is to see the whole thing burned to the ground.
The way our culture "tries to redefine our instincts out of existence" is by recontextualizing certain instinctive impulses as moral character flaws/defects rather than instincts that need civilization grafted over them in the service of mutual utility and benefit.
It's the misplaced moralizing that sets up the inner war resulting in endemic depression, addiction, and suicide or at the other end of the continuum destructive rebellion. And it's the misplaced moralizing that makes self-respect impossible in the face of self-judgment for what are actually just natural instincts and attributes that need intelligent modulation and productive redirection.
This is exactly it. He’s not the first one to bring this forward, but he does so very poetically through his seminars, books and even his art. I also love Gabor Maté’s perspective of the ravages of the disconnection and trauma that result for the “inner war”.
This is it. Absolutely well said
Precisely. Really well put
We can't let them (our urges, instincts, etc) control us either, which has been argued quite consistently for at least the last 2.5 millenia.
Do we ignore our biological/psychological imperatives conscientiously? Are we equipping ourselves and future generations with Emotional Intelligence? How can we contextualize our instincts into civilization when we lack the self awareness that it even needs to be done? We only utilize about 5% of our brain capacity and the rest is subconscious. Becoming conscious of our subconscious patterns and behavior in order to address the issues we face is an arduous task but is like training a muscle. It can be done, building that bridge is going to take collective effort to reach the masses.
The standards for "bad boys" have fallen greatly to "methhead/drug dealer that does donuts in Wal-Mart parking lots" so don't feel bad for not scoring women with these incredible standards.
Exactly. If for me to get laid in today's world requires me to throw all my morals, then I accept to be rejected and I wouldn't mind not approaching a woman ever again.
Lol, I don’t think methheads are out here slaying poon my guy
@@paulewannacrackr it's a joke
@@paulewannacrackr lmfao, this cracked me up man.
Or you could just be successful financially, have your s*** together, and know how to game women, and you wouldn't be on this comment section complaining about your life.
1.Would your partner stay with you if you ended up disabled? Or during times of poverty or if you get physically or mentally hurt? Would he/ she work to provide & take care of you?
2.even If not having kids, think of this: would you like your children to Be just like your partner?
3. Now, would you?
Yep. I adore my wife. Wonderful woman ❤
Man. My ex left for another when I buzzed my hair. Couldn’t imagine how fast she woulda gone if I was disabled. Thanks for this perspective
Absolutely to all 3 questions.
Every woman that I have known that was attracted to bad boys has had an unhappy life.
So true 👍👍👍
Yeah but are her Gene's more likely to survive future generations because she mated with a dominant male? Personal happiness is irrelevant to survival and evolution. You know why it hurts so badly to lose someone you love? Because the more painful it is, the harder you will try in the future to prevent it happening again thereby increasing chances of survival. Sadness and despair are evolutionary tools.
Well, they deserved it then.
I married the bad boy and have the best life ever. My husband has turned into the best provider for my family, is a very attentive husband and loving father. There is no universal truth.
@caitlin....honestly, you think your experience is the rule or the exception to the rule?, don't bother responding
From a young age I was attracted to the brooding, bad boy type. I also realized, however, that I had an angry, abusive father. I'm not claiming any deep introspection at 14, but I did know I wanted a secure, loving marriage in my future, and I would need to find a partner who would be the opposite of my father. I continued to have many crushes on badboy types in my adolescent years, but refused to date. I didn't see the probability or value of engaging in that behaviour as a teenager.
I met my now husband at 22. We've been together for almost 10 years. He's the same height as me, and his frame is smaller. Don't get me wrong, physically I find him extremely attractive. But what I love the most is that he has a big brain and a big heart. When he walks into a room, people smile. He's respected by all his coworkers and employers. He listens to people. He loves people. He's honest and owns up to his mistakes.
I'm not dunking on other people who went down a different path than me. But I am grateful I resisted the immediate gratification of passion. Passion simulates an aspect of authentic love, which I eventually found when I met my husband.
Dunk away.
@@tiny8626 Teenagers are known to have poor impulse control. Under developed prefrontal cortex I believe. I believe that is why having a solid moral system is crucial for raising children.
I still don't want to dunk on anyone. Many people I know who made poor choices were smart enough to learn from them. You could also say that I was motivated by fear as a teenager, which I'm not particularly pleased with. It was a stressful and painful time of my life. It did shape me though, which I'm grateful for.
You are a lucky girl.
Gorgeous story.
@@avon8375 That's a one-dimensional take on the whole center of morality of a person you don't even know.
I suppose I don't need to defend my position. But I can say with confidence that I didn't choose to marry my husband because I settled for what I didn't actually want. You assume that I haven't done the hard therapeutic work of working through my past. If, as a teenager, I was able to exhibit a level of self control that enabled me to make a wise choice, I trust my own further developed maturity as an adult woman to stay faithful to my husband.
I hope you don't make extreme snap judgements of others, as you have with me, a habit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're having a bad week.
Gaston wasn't only just a narcissist in Beauty and the Beast. He had a lot of other traits that were beneficial. He also had a large portion of the village encouraging his behavior and giving him further ammunition to act the way he was. Most of the women were swooing over him and he had a lot of friends. I understand that he's considered the antagonist of the story but It's not like he was completely delusional of his behavior. A lot of the people seemed to really like him. Even if he was an asshole.
If you want a bully to stop behaving in a certain way, then don't encourage them. Seemed like a lot of people in the story were culpable in making Gaston the way he was.
I don't know if you remember the whole story but he was a complete lunatic specially towards the end when he stabs the beast. Remember he attacked the beast because of his narcissistic injury was triggered when he realised Belle was in love with the beast. Also narcissists are master manipulators as they know how to climb the social hierarchy.
No he was completely delusional, and the people giving him attention were also delusional
I'm glad someone else recognizes that. Very well said.
But part of the story is about that.
A 12yo doesn't let a creepy old lady come in? Make him into a monster.
A man does everything women in his town tell him too? He's the monster.
An in some way, gaston's attraction to beauty is telling.
That's not the most beautiful woman in town, not physically.
But it's the only women not telling him to go kill himself against an accursed beast.
And when it comes to beauty, she doesn't fall for the beast since the start, it's not the wealth either.
For starters it seems beast is just a more harrier gaston.
But then she see's the books, the garden.
And turns out he's not an immature 12yo because a whole town and existence told him to, but because a creepy pedo witch told him and cursed him along with all his loved friends and family.
Think about who's the easier job there, gaston or the beast?
The beast has a healthy support structure that doesn't encourage him into self-destruction.
The beast is knowledgeable instead of completely developmentally stilted.
And to help his all you have to do is prove pedo witch wrong.
In the original story there's not even a gaston, it's just society.
Weirdly enough, disney by trying to make marlon brando the villain they nailed up the point even harder.
Wow you got like every possible detail wrong. I'm amazed.
As women age and "get more experience" are they better at selecting mates without the dark triad, or are they less capable of securing them in competition with younger, more attractive women?
I would say the latter unless they are the narcissistic type.
@@georgemavrides3434 this is the point where you tell them off. 👏 where the fuck were you guys when I was actually pour my heart out? No deal. I rather die than live with someone that "matured".
that sir is the real truth.
Exactly. I think David is leaving that out to be nice about it
Narcissists will go for the vulnerable, an older woman could be considered a good target because you can lower her self-esteem over time by constantly reminding her of her age. Younger women can be good targets because of their naivety.
The women grow wiser, and choose more carefully.
Be nice to those who are nice to you but take no shit from anyone. Respect is a two way communication and is NOT to be compromised.
Being nice can get you walked all over. Being tough will earn you respect and status.
You just need to learn when to use either.
Mature women are far better at differentiating the great guys from the idiots!
Fax
Not that they have as much choice. Reduced beauty, often genetic baggage (another man's kids), etc. They kinda have to go for the stable beta at that point.
Yeah after they've been run thru by the bad boys then they learn their lesson and let the nice guys have the sloppy leftovers
So true!
i stopped being da nice guy, no one gets my respect unless dey earn it
I found myself wondering why the dynamic of these relationships are not often picked apart.
The narcissist and empathetic partner serve each other. The empath is often a wounded individual who is attempting to find self worth by ‘winning over’ and ‘helping’ the bad boy, when really they should redirect all that love to themselves and healthy relationships.
Everyone makes mistakes. The dark triad reveal themselves when their actions demonstrate no conscience despite their apology and accepting words. “What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say…” works both ways.
If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types.
Extremely apt at people pleasing?
(Altruistic surrender; you feel happy and safe when others are. This stems from having to meet your parents psychological need or demand over your own) Do you treat yourself with the same level of care?
No?
There’s your answer. None of us can declare maturity until we value and respect ourselves and others equally.
It’s I’M Possible.
Be the change. You have a finite amount of time in your life. There are nearly 8 billion people. Choose wisely who you exchange energy with.
✌🏼❤️
Stimmt!
Sam Glazier said: "If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types."
That is exactly correct. The WORST thing being raised by parents with personality disorders is that you will become ATTRACTED to exactly those types for long term relationships.
That is the WORSE thing that these parents will leave to you, because you replace them with exactly the kind of people who caused you so much pain in the first place. Mostly it occurs because you ignore the GIFT of growing up. Growing up means you can LEAVE. LEAVING is a gift you deserve. If you select toxic people, you have not "left." You are still there.
Get therapy. Learn about recognizing toxic people. Avoid them like the plague, precisely because that is what they are. Listen to Sam. He's got it right.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@sanjosemike3137 thank you 🙏🏼
Samantha 😉
You are right too. Therapy and self awareness, breeds strength to leave. ❤️
The hardest part is not behaving like the narcissist too. This can happen when we become exhausted, resentful and bitter. It happens in our blind spot often. Psychodynamic/ depth work is painful and the most challenging journey to commit to, but totally worth it with the right support.
I now gravitate to the opposite of my ex. I gravitate towards self aware and kind souls. I thank therapy for that.
Most people don't get the opportunity to meet the other 8 billion! Before I married, I dated about 12 women, most of them just once.
Beautiful words
A lot of people misunderstand this situation. The one who can walk away is the one who always wins in any relationship. It doesn’t matter how they feel about it, all that matters is they can or could. Always be the guy who could, then she chases you. A bad boy is just a mildly indifferent man, it’s the old version of a man who placed all of his love outside his woman but still cared enough to balance. Like in ages of old, a man saying his love was the sea or his ambition but while still having a wife and a woman. That is what you need to do, find your muse to put your dedication there and don’t give it all to her. Otherwise you end up as a lapdog which is what a nice guy is. A lapdog.
Your childhood trauma can turn into sexual attraction. If you're raised by parents who's neglectful you might be attracted to narcissists
@Thirsty Slayer but you weren't safe with dangerous men too. Bad boys are not just physically abusive, they can be cold, cheaters and poor providers. Yes we still want strong and buffed but it has evolved. Kindness can be sexy too if you were raised by a father that is also kind to his wife
@@elypowell6797 define Chad.
@@elypowell6797 so? Stay mad
Excuses.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 exactly, people need to take some personal fucking responsibility instead of expecting a pity party
I love how Jordan Peterson is probably always the smartest in the room but is humble enough to try and learn from other great minds, that's why he's the best.
Wise men learn more from fools, than fools learn from wise men.
If he was so smart,he wouldn't need any guests to talk to,he could cover any topic himself. He just creates an image that he knows everything by talking too much sometimes without much sense
@@katerinasimonelli6957 FACTS. Anybody can acquire knowledge or high level vocabulary..Nothing new under the sun.
@@katerinasimonelli6957 It's a smart move to discuss the said topic with an evolutionary psychologist (EP) because JP knows that he is not an EP and the topic falls within the field of an EP, thus, he needs the perspective of an EP. He dives deep in his discussions and he loves to dissect his topics to get to that basic truth, and anyone who does that, whether he likes it or not, is prone to being misinterpreted that he's trying to create a persona that he is very knowledgeable.
@@katerinasimonelli6957 looks like your mad
The interesting thing is, in my experience some of the kindest, most gentile men I've known were extremely capable killers. My Great Grandfather was such a kind man but from some stories I heard about him second hand he killed a lot of men in the Pacific theater of WWII. Many of my leaders through my time in the Marine Corps were the same, extremely kind men but with a history of extreme violence. I've always been confused by the fact that by and large these are not the sort of men who are particularly successful with women, they're basically the polar opposite of "bad boys". They're extremely agreeable, conscientious, and slow to anger but when put in a situation where violence is the only option they're utterly terrifying.
It's more capability of directed violence. One of the nicest men I know was a Marine in Vietnam. He is a very successful lawyer now.
In Vietnam he was a door gunner and on one gun run the were out of ammunition so they did a gun run with him hanging out the side of the helicopter shooting at the NVA with his pistol.
I've seen the citation for the award.
Being capable of controlled violence, extreme or otherwise, is the characteristic of a dangerous man or woman.
@@ddurkof thats a good way to put it, the interesting thing though is in my experience these men are far less successful with women than the classic "bad boy" archetype who are quick to anger and violence but typically weaklings and cowards when confronted by someone stronger than them. It's just something that never made much sense to me.
Generational theory.
Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times, hard times make strong men.
@@johnathanmandrake7240 I'm sorry but that has very little to do with my comment. The men I'm talking about are without a doubt some of the most capable, strong men I've ever met. It just seems their kindness makes them unattractive to women.
@@death31313 true. The key for both sexes is to comfortable with one's own company and the correct person will come along.
When one's self is lacking we tend to try and fill the void. That can lead us to accept the less than optimal mate.
I have pondered why some women seem to be drawn to abusive partners (bad boys)and the one thing that stood out to me is that being abusive can be mistaken for being strong. The abusive partner makes them feel safe on some primal level. If someone has the potential to be violent towards a partner, there is also the potential that they would be violent in protection of their possessions (the female), their property and their children (if any). It's not that being a nice man is not a good thing, it just doesn't feel like a safe thing.
Bad boys have a different definition in woman's dictionary and men's dictionary
For us bas guy is a guy who doesn't provide n protect us n abuses us😠😠
but why a gentleman cannot be a guy capable of displaying healthy protective traits? I see no contradiction. There is whole a lot between a bad boy and shy softie. Because I am a shy softie, I do prefer my partner rather not.
@@agnieszkapiasecka4124 shy doesn't mean the guy is incapable of defending or inflicting damage if situation demands. Shy means he just don't open to everybody because of various reasons.
not all bad boys are abusive
@@LeftHimDead truth
I am so happy Dr. Peterson is raising awareness about the Dark Triad, it needs to be common knowledge. It explains so much with respect to deceit, betrayal, greed, absolute selfishness, the evil we see in humans. Hedonism as well. Everyone should study the Dark Triad, amazing video Dr. Peterson
Maybe study how to not raise dark triad people. I don’t think the behaviour is always innate. There’s some conditioning involved.
Even as a young teenager I could clearly see that the female sex was wired for attraction to bad boys . Of course , this perception flew right in the face of society's and woman general claims . However , what I constantly witnessed was , simply , undeniable . I was completely amazed that others and in particular my peers could not see the obvious contradiction between what society and women claimed and what the actual behaviour was right before our eyes . I wasn't a bad boy in the worst sense but I was highly individualistic , so I guess that I was a rebel by conventional standards . I thought as I wished , spoke as I wished , dressed as I wished , etc. .Though , I was not hostile or disrespectful to others , I always chose my own path . I can't tell you just how many of my male friends were dumped by women because they were either really nice guys or were trying to conform to the image of what a nice guy was that was becoming very popular at the time . They just couldn't understand why they were losing at the dating / relationship game . It caused them a lot of heartache and grief . I kept telling them that it was because they were too nice or trying to be too nice and that for some bizarre reason women were attracted to bad boys .Years later , I heard one comedian who had had the same 'nice guy ' experience in his youth refer to them as his ' James Taylor Years ' . In any event , the whole nice guy thing just wasn't yielding the desired effects that it was supposed to . Back then the only real conclusion I could draw for womens' propensity to be attracted to bad boys was that the bad boys were a device that they employed to establish their own identity separate from that their bestowed upon them by their parents , a genuine sexual curiosity , a general curiosity , a predilection for drama , status in the community of their peers and a sense of protection in a world which could be dangerous at times . It would appear , that women only shake their attraction to bad boys when they have reached their 40s or 50s . Lacking the energy of youth and having had numerous bad experiences with bad boys they seem to begin to accept that they must settle for a more quiet , less exciting but stable life that is far more possible with a nice guy . It won't be thrilling but it will be comfortable .
From a Christian perspective, marriage is based upon the principle of chastity, not fornication or adultery.
Female Virginity and Sexual Chastity for Marriage (Ex. 22:16, Dt. 22:13-21, 28, 29):
The once virgin female partner no longer has a justifiable opportunity to have sex with anyone else as long as her first male sex partner is alive--to do so would commit fornication.
Abandoned (defiled) or divorced females are required to remain single and sexually abstinent.
Divorced males (from their once virgin or chaste widow) are required to remain single and sexually abstinent.
So, Christians have different sexual values and attraction to them is different that that of a non-Christian.
Why tf u wud want to settle down with a 40 50 yr old woman?
@@PhilospherKing did you have to Google how to spell woman? You have a lot to learn.
Very insightful analysis but from experience, this analysis seems very accurate
This is true for married women who cheat with bad boys for a period of time from their 40s to end 40s. Once they reach 50, they settle with their husbands
One: it is a challenge... chasing something unattainable is a pattern, one that needs to be broken. Second: It is exciting, a feeling we like... but we need to reassociate it with something good for us instead of placing in the hands of one person. Lastly, we want to save them, it's a maternal instinct to jump in and try to be a hero... But to lose yourself in the process is a long process of healing. Once people are whole in themselves, only then can they not chase, not jump, not fear any of it. Just be you, the right people will come around to either be a lesson or a good counterpart.
Rollo has been saying this for years now…
Enabling the bad behaviour is another oft overlooked acpect of this. Many women are obviously excited by unnecessary conflict and drama and will happily generate it. This often begins and ends in single-parent housholds.
This is very evident in certain sub-cultures like it or not.
Most women are notoriously bad at choosing men. Traditionally fathers would vet men as husbands for their daughters, the daughter would approve or decline and marriages were historically more stable. Everything has gone to hell as women have received more freedom and social media dms have given them the false impression that they have more leverage than they actually do.
@@badlaamaurukehu Yup, I've had girlfriends who would start fights "just to keep things exciting" (as one of them described it).
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
I have listened to alot of Jordan Peterson talking, I am amazed by the thinking around a subject both positive and negative, and how the positive way is beneficial, and how it will affect you and the world at large. The absolute brilliance to explain in depth, showing passion, truth, and why adaptations in truth is beneficial.
I was always attracted to bad boys. My father was a bad boy, abusive mentally, emotionaly, physicaly and sexually. I loved my father, he was the authority figure and I wanted to please him so that he would love me. He also had some very good characteristics that I admired. I did not remember or recognized his bad qualities. He left when I was 11 years old and I was once again sexually abused by family friend. I never felt worthy of a nice guy and could not connect to them. I believed that men would love me if I pleased them. I kept a very innocent child like part of myself throughout my adult hood. I think it kind of becomes like Stockholm syndrome for some women. I could not accept that people are bad and that there are people in the world that really want to hurt you intentionally and yet at the same time was in great fear of them.
Wow. Im so shocked and angry to read that. I sincerely hope you’re doing better now
Many people who had abusive parents tend to get themselves into abusive relationships because it feels like "home" or "familiar".
Don't go for "nice guys" they are manipulative and not pleasant to be around aka toxic, they are not well mentally too.
Go for somewhere in between :)
Go for man who knows its worth, but still capable of love and care.
(Easier said than done, but it would be my advice).
Very Well Stated! Thank you!
@@damnmexican90 Excellent question! Til We make a habit of Authentic Living in Accountability of Self Our LIGHT remains DIM. As parents of young adult children its only fair to them We try Our Best to be Genuine in seeking Truthful Peaceful living. So it seems.
I'm a 45 year old retired nice guy, now finally decided to focus on my career, kids and ageing parents, catching up with old pals, doing something (that gives me pleasure) I didn't do for long because I was too busy making someone else's dream true. It was a tough decision (to set me free), but eventually I did and now I feel I should have done it long ago. It is one life, we must focus on doing the right thing without focusing too much on its consequences.
I think it's more about physical attraction and looks than behavior. I know plenty of guys who are great looking who are also very nice that have no problems attracting women despite them being super "nice." It's more like bad behavior isn't a turn off for women as long as the guy is good looking. And I would say attractive guys are more prone to developing a cocky, entitled "bad boy" personality due to constant positive reinforcement for looking good.
Nah, I don't think so. I think it's more like looks matter A LOT, but the type of "aura" created by the bad boy is just plain a turn on for women, only even more so if he also happens to be physically attractive as well.
There have been several studies that have complied strong evidence that the majority of women score the same man much higher in how physically attractive that they appear, by simply contorting their face to look more dominant/ menacing, just as one piece of evidence.
On the anecdotal side, I experience finding women far more attractive when they behave confidently, verses when they behave more shyly. That's to say, the same woman will look significantly more attractive to me when she is behaving in a confident manner than when she isn't.
So, I happen to know (from experience) that the same type of phenomena happens to men, regarding their attraction to women.
That's also my view. Attractive guys treat women anyway cos most of the time, they are the ones being hit on. It works dor them with women but does not work for them in life.
It's more true when you come to females. Attractive females can be very rude to a guy they don't like. And they can be of exceptionally terrible character even at their workplaces. As long as they are very attractive, they feel they will always have a better job.
Women are attracted to power. Bad boys have the illusion of power. Some women are easily fooled by that illusion.
@@JamesBrown-wy7xs Tbh, this whole bad boy thing seems like a North American problem. I only got introduced to this idea through American media. Most of the research in this takes place in the States, so the results are skewed by the culture there.
Spot on.
Narcissism looks like confidence.
Psychopathy looks like an integrated shadow.
Machiavellianism looks like strategic planning.
*Girls don't want "bad boys", they want useful men*
Oh shit 😳 their love is utilitarian and this is facts.
Best comment!
So, what you are saying is...women prefer useful men...they just can't distinguish useful men from bad boys?
Is that what you are saying?
What do u mean integrated shadow? Like copying and mimicking stuff perfectly?
@@realjcoop182 id say less 'utilitarian' and more 'pragmatic'. I probably should have said 'effective' instead of 'useful'.
Dr. Buss either games, knows someone who does, or has studied it.
He absolutely nailed it when he talked about the hierarchies within the online gaming communities.
There is a relentless hierarchy in the competitive online gaming scene.
From the Joe weekender, all the way up the the guys in the pro leagues.
Great video, as always Dr. Peterson.
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s Annnnd reported.
As a woman that fell for a narcissist I want to say that the only reason I was attracted to this type of person was the reason that I had not been aware of my codependency issues and that I was not used to be treated with respect. Once I overcame those issues there is nothing I find attractive about those ppl anymore.
Still it doesn't matter you're still attracted to bad boys because it's psychologically human nature to not get attracted to clingy people and be attracted to the ones that you feel that you are losing and obviously bad boys always play girls and it puts you in a psychological sense to that person is too good for you so you want to trap that but you can believe whatever you want to believe
@@anastasiasanchez7852 Seems like you know me better than I do. I didn‘t knew I forgot everything I learned. Can‘t see trough their manipulations anymore. And now I think again they are cool and am attracted to that. 😂🙈 serious? Girl, there is nothing that attracts me to bad guys anymore. Confidence is sexy. That’s true. But bad boys (or girls). What’s sexy about them if you love yourself? If you love yourself you should have a feeling of wanting to stay away from them. 😘
@@anastasiasanchez7852 so you are saying there are bad boys and clingy ppl. That’s it. No emotional and mentally ppl on this planet. Girl ….. there is something that needs healing inside of YOU. Not outside of you.
@Wee Ner was this message for me?
Too bad most women would not find this an issue let alone fix it
I have been realizing and learning these facts of life since I was a child...Jordan said what ever I had in my mind..
I developed a fascination for sociopaths/psychopaths and the eccentric in early adulthood and would spend my free time talking to them and studying them. Then I would grow bored because a lot of them seemed..so limited by the framework they perceive reality with. I let it slip that I became bored with one, and he took tremendous offense; dedicating every opportunity that we’d cross paths to try to bring me down. Unfortunately he wasn’t very good at it. Since then, I’ve crossed paths with bigger and better psychopaths (all men), and each time I would find myself studying their tactics. It’s always very one dimensional despite their subtle methods, and they tend to have nothing to show for. I believe that was part of my journey in integrating my shadow. It’s much easier to come across malevolent people then it is to come across a strong and good person. I’m very grateful I’ve made a friend that is both strong and good.
I believe that it must be very offensive to them realising that they actually fit into very small and very specific box and aren't anything special or extra as they wish others to believe about themselves. Plus recognising their manipulation techniques that are usually similar - ruins their petty agenda and exposes that pitiful little box they operate from.
What was your takeaway from these experiences? Do you have any observations regarding patterns to share?
I ran into a lot of psychopaths back in the past but, yeah, basically they're all the same and boring. I call them the hollow people.
The fuckers live in a cartoon world, where they are the Sun.
@@neilreynolds3858you ran into them or they ran into you? You have wasted your youth on bad boys, and now that you are old, used & thrown, now you want a nice man? 😂
Whoever is drawn to criminals, people with broken moral compasses and what else, are for sure one of em themselves. And if they even haven't done anything then it could be a sign they have potential for doing similar negative actions. Controversial perhaps but I believe bad people get attracted to bad people. Not sure why people portray all these people so innocent looking.
Yup I've had women legit be mad at me for not being a drug dealer
anybody has potential for corruption if you corner or press them hard enough. and then ,you have the successful sociopaths or psychopaths, like many police officers, who are wife-beaters.
Respect to David Buss for bringing up World Of Warcraft! ps. Jordan: This is a very important topic to bring up and you fought it well as always. Thanks for informing the world to be more aware of what is happening around them.
What girls don't understand is that the "bad boy" persona is a front. Inside is a weak man
Not weak just damaged.
@@luigi298 same thing
True when I was most insecure in myself I tried acting tough 🤣
i think, you're thinking of bullies. bullies and bad boys aren't the same thing. bad boys don't bully anyone, they just don't tolerate other people's crap and pursue their own desire before they consider someone's else's. bad boys are almost never weak inside or out.
@@yanostropicalparadise755 no I know what I meant
When I was 14 I tried to date a blonde beauty I knew at church. I was quite the gentleman. Even opened doors for her. She thought I was weak. At 16 she got pregnant by the town drug dealer who dropped out of high school and was arrested several times. When he heard she was expecting twins he ran to another state. When he heard she miscarried the babies at eight months he returned. It taught me a valuable lesson about women and beauty. I never looked at female beauty ever the same. Its much like a phony facade.
Tbh I think this problem is less about female beauty and more to do with your expectations that were on faulty foundations. What did you presume her beauty meant about her personality?
Women can be beautiful and kind. Beauty isn't a phony facade, it's just a feature. You can't base someone's intentions or personality based on their appearance - that's just unfair to women as a whole.
I'm not saying it was your fault, but your situation sounded a lot like the one in the video. You were 14 (very young) and this girl went for someone who represented the dark triad traits because she was also likely young and impressed by his "dangerous" traits. She mistook your kindness for weakness, probably because you couldn't or didn't also show any prowess. Women really desire that sense of potential power/aggression - they want to see you have it, and that you know how to handle it. It's that fine line they were speaking about in the video.
You were 14. Don't be hard on yourself - just learn from it. Attraction is necessary for attraction (meaning women's beauty has served a purpose, otherwise men wouldn't be drawn to it). But take the time to get to know someone, and don't over invest in them. It's a thing you learn over time. Becoming jaded about women won't serve you - you just have to learn the game a bit better. Don't punish all women for the hurt you had from a poor experience.
@@sammelina12 Dude I’m 56 and been married 27 years. I’m not weak, nor was I then. I was focused. The lesson I learned is that some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves. Little did I know at the time but later I found out at 14 she wasn’t a virgin. I was.
@@map3384 lol sorry I assumed you were younger. Still think my point presides. Also never called you weak, so don’t twist it.
“Some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves”…. Man what a poor argument. Just because a woman has sexual at a young age doesn’t mean she doesn’t respect herself. I can’t even believe I’d still have to have this talk but middle aged men are like this lol. There’s a lot of reasons a female would have sex and it’s just ignorant to say it’s because they don’t have self-respect. You like to feel better than because you were a virgin which I assume is associated to your religious views. That’s fine but isn’t there something in there about thou shall not judge? 🙄😂
@@sammelina12 You’re wrong. Having sex at a young age leads to many psychological problems. That girl from long ago didn’t have a happy life. Going from bad boy to bad boy and being used like trash does bring a person down.
@@map3384 no, I’m not wrong and you’re still ignorant. Correlation is not causation - this is a popular quote in statistics especially related to Psychology. There are a multitude of other variables that would impact her quality of life and life outcomes that do not hinge singularity that she had sex at a young age. Even the fact that she had sex at a young age should make you question her parent’s involvement in her development and her social environment. Having sex is a function that is influenced by other conditions. You can’t take that and apply it to the rest of her life. There are many women who had sex young and still turned out to have a happy life.
There’s correlations, but it’s not a causation.
Maybe she had childhood wounding from unavailable parents or traumatic events. Maybe she had core wounds like “I am unworthy” and felt she needed to chase men to fill that gap. Maybe she relied on things like alcohol because she didn’t have better tools to cope with suffering caused from early events.
You don’t know all. Ignorance is not bliss.
Jordan Peterson, a man of high intellect. I consume as much information from him as I can. He's not political or constrained by cultural Marxism (political correctness), and puts the truth right out there.
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
I agree, when I was young I think I mistook toxic masculinity as protection and confidence but now as an older woman in her 30s I know better, I know the difference between healthy masculinity and dominance over the toxic narcissistic kind.
Unfortunately, feminist women denounce toxic masculinity as evil, yet they become attracted to men who exude those traits
Toxic masculinity...are you, by any chance, a leftist?
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
@@r.a1301 its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
Women want fun but also to be safe. It's a fine line.
In order for a guy to be fun he has to take risks and learn from them. Builds character
@@VeritasIncrebresco 😎👍💜
@Despize Perform That's actually true. Women want that, but so do men - in the context of a partner.
Obviously in the general context of life, everyone wants that of course.
What's your definition of fun? Being lawless, my goodness this generation is screwed.
@@leelewis6925 "The law" can change depending on where you live. I may drive over 65mph in one city and get a ticket, but in another city not too far away I can legally drive 75mph and it's totally fine. Be careful when you judge another. Is the purpose to correct them if they're wrong in order to help keep them safe, or to try to control them? Are you sure you're always right and never wrong? These are important self reflections necessary to keep ourselves in check, so that we're not falling victim to the same things we're claiming we're trying to prevent in others.
I've always been very kind to my girlfriends, and am generally polite and soft spoken...but I also have a temper that flares up specifically if people I care for are in danger.
I've shocked some girls into breaking up with me because they didn't think I was capable of violence for some reason, even though it was in their defense.
It surely is a fine line to walk.
You weren't Mr Right, just Mr Right now. They just needed an excuse.
Hybristophilia is common among women. Your violence had nothing to do with it, women love power by proxy.
@@Berserkism On the other hand I've gotten into a total strangers pants just by threatening to beat a guy up for no reason but to impress her, literally said "I'll do it if you want me to." even though I wouldn't have because I don't do that kinda thing (and the guy was no match anyway). I was just drunk and messing around, but this was just bumping into strangers getting smokes at 2 am and she brought me back to her place just like that.
@@Berserkism Exactly. Both enablers and instigators of "bad" behavior are common among the more dramatic sex.
Crime drama is practically porn for them.
Every girlfriend I've had has been into the "bad boys". I'm the distant, quiet, potentially violent type, so I guess I fall in the category. But I could tell that none of them ever really loved me.
@NotSure Which is that? Nvm...
I listented to this whole video with full attention, but I'm sorry, the fact that he just mentioned World of Warcraft is what I'm gonna remember the most from it xD but of course many other actually useful informations as well.
It happens
Enhancement Shaman 4 life bros 😂
Always DK!😂 No matter the spec
its pre selection and social proof, on top of that its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male. Also, authority and responsibility cannot be separated
Always ignore what a woman says she likes/wants, pay attention to who she dates.
100%
Always ignore Peterson fans when they won't admit that the jabs were poison.
I'm a woman and I'm considerably less agreeable than my female friends. The ethical utility of this is I don't go along with behavior like gossip, which women sometimes use to bond with each other. Obviously this also comes with a high social cost as I've lost several female friends for refusing to put down a fellow female behind her back. I notice that my male friends will tease each other to each other's faces - giving each other the opportunity to spar 'man to man'. Female relationships are very tricky.
Women ARE tricky (or more intelligent)
I have a harder time enjoying their gossips but it is the quickest way they bond 😂
Female colleagues who don't care and are less judgemental have always been harder to find
Just have to say this really bugs me about women. Men can tease, argue, even dislike each other, but if they are up front they get over it or find a diplomatic border. But another man secretly gossiping or "being fake" is considered one of the great sins to men and will burn the bridge not with just the man they are sabotaging, but any man that hears about it. There's a pack loyalty or pecking order, even another "cool" woman can be in that order if she follows the code. Yet women have to game the system a lot, and game each other...its nearly always enemy territory, be it men on the prowl after them or other women trying to destroy them. I can see why some independent women just move to rural areas and live their own life.
@@haleemahzaheer7798 lol women are more intelligent? In a vaccum? nice one
@@vinceplace3667 ok bruh.
Men are more intelligent 🙄
I am a very agreeable woman and I never gossip and would never take down a woman as you describe. I don't understand why you think this quality is due to your being less agreeable than most women
These discussions are so interesting. Makes me wish I studied psychology more in-depth.
It's never too late. We're in the digital age. Lectures online everywhere! God bless xoxo
Psychology is about hope and healing, and strengths and capacities, and respect and understanding. When I read that women are attracted to brutal selfish morons then yes - some may be. But they either come from broken homes or have unavailable fathers.
I know a girl who use to like bad guys when she was a teen. She said that she had an absent dad in her life, so she tried to get that protection from these crazy men that she use to date. She feels like someone was finally protecting her.
Daddy issues
Badboys are more likely to harass her than protect her. Yet women fall for them
She was very self aware
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
Bad guys, thug, gangster, mafia.
Even monster. Look at Twillight series, 50 shades of grey, 365 days. Those novels profiting million dollars.
If you think about it, the male leads in those novels have villain trait, and they're only nice to the female leads, and protecting the female leads while against the world.
'Heroes are martyr, they would leave you to save the world, but villains would destroy the world to save you.' I read it from somewhere, I forget, I think it is from a manga/manhwa where the female lead falling in love to the villain.
8:09 "One of the solutions to inequality are diverse games of competence hierarchies" - JP. I think this is such an insane insight. If you look at history, the more restrictive the games of status hierarchies, the less diverse the skillsets that lend an individual to status and power. Because of that restriction only a handful of talents and abilities lead someone to prosperity. In today's world, a broad set of skills can garner economic prosperity. That is definitely a form of progress.
You are very good listener! . I wish everything discussed can be broken down for a layman like me.
Thanks
could listen to this kind of conversation for hours, time to go looking for more
JP is right on that. 🍻 as someone who dated anti social personality disorder for a short while when I was in my mid 20's... I've learned so much and grew up very fast after that. I don't like to blame society BUT - we need to educate young girls and boys about this. Many people get destroyed by these kind of people with ASPD without knowing what is it.
When I look back - this was a hell of a shadow work for me. but now I feel like a better human being. JP's books and lectures helped as well. I hope men and women (healthy and young) will learn about it so they can give a real fight for this disorders and change the world for the better. after all, ONLY people that DON'T KNOW a thing about that reality will choose a toxic narcissistic leaders over and over for all the wrong reasons.
"we need to educate young girls and boys on this" I believe this used to be referred to as parenting.
Donald trump is toxic leader ?
@@bubsnicket Nihilistic parents don't care about the children. Almost all of them don't even really care about themselves. You can observe that by their consumption behavior and their ignorance.
I have to watch this one because I've never understood it, myself. It's like Jeff Foxworthy said, you go for "bad boys" in real life and all you'll get for it is being on an episode of Cops, in a tube-top, yelling out a trailer window, "LOCK HIS ASS UP!"
lmbo
The issue with Dark Triad, is that creates a social leaders uncapable of empathy. Which basically creates a toxic behavior that is followed by those who are part of the social group (usually this behavior is camouflaged with the title of "joke"). This type of groups usually are common in teenagers, but is not extinguished in adults. Those type of social groups and behaviors, show us, that is not only usefull but necessary to have a "bad guy" on your inner self, for survival reasons and self-protection.
Good leaders show submissive behaviors intentionally towards social interaction in order to make others around confortable, such as giving the upper hand on the handshake, compliments and serving people. You may wonder why is that. Because they have a higher sense of empathy than usual people, they are also confident on themselves, so make sure that if you're not the leader, that the leader of your social group, has those types of characteristics (White Triad).
And remember yourself, even if you are the leader of the group, there are times that you must give the lead to someone, this, is what makes you special, because you know that you're not the best on every single aspect of your life, and often, you give people the lead in order to get the best knowledge and/or result for the group/yourself.
Your English sucks, but your thoughts are useful.
We all die. Life is pointless. Hope that realization makes you feel better.
That's why you gotta dance like a maniac while you still can
Sounds like someone who has wasted their life playing video games instead of living
Essentially, JP has in this podcast and others, furthered the idea that some young women are unable to distinguish between the badboy and what they really want, the alpha. Whereas the badboy not only is formidable to others, but is dangerous to himself, for either lack of self control or intelligence, puts himself in harms way, ultimately negatively affecting the security and protection of females
I think the appeal of the 'bad boy' is more the realisation from an early age that the world is a pretty dark, harsh, cruel place, so there's an instinct to be attracted to someone who isn't afraid to fight off potential enemies...It's more of a protective, survival instinct trait, especially if you grow up in a remote, rural place. It's about being attracted to men who have the strength to fight off threats in the wild...
I agree, also can apply to the city. And the forbidden fruit is always more attractive. We want what we’re not suppose to have
Maybe a balance of not a danger to her but dangerous enough to stop other dangers.
@@AR-rn8ok
Exactly 😠😠😠
Men don't understand
I think its more about the biological need for security a woman needs out of the early awareness of her significantly weaker physical body and personality. Woman tend to feel fear way more often than men. Sometimes, it is sound and reasonable, as woman get sexually harassed more often than men, and gain more physical damage in physical fight. And other times are just projected delusions from similar experiences.
Bottom line is that world isn’t necessarily a harsh place for everybody. I for example am a big guy in terms of height and width. I rarely fear anybody or anything, and I have never perceived the world as a harsh place.
I think women prefer these type of “bad” guys, because they internally believe they can provide them with a sense of safety and security.
@@mido222100 so as a woman i can tell you a joke
What I've noticed is that
Whenever i have seen a guy dominate or bully another man
I've been turned on by him
But whenever I've seen him attack any woman it was a huge red flag
It
Love it when a man stands up for me takes care of me and protects me
Feminism is bullshit
There's only one kind of weak man, the one who is cursed to seek respect or love from others everytime to be able to feel alive
Jordan I love you and you have changed my life in so many ways. Please never sell out. Please never lower yourself to using clickbait.
fortunately he doesn't have any need to... he's arguably one of the most well known and respected men in the western world today because of his ability to articulate complex problems... he's not going to lower himself to clickbate like a RUclips noob trying to scratch a few pennies from ads
I'm not near as deep and articulate as Jordan Peterson, but I would say I sway to being analytical and thoughtful. I like to know how things work, this includes people. One of the toughest challenges I can speak to is to really know my "self". It's easy to look at others and be objective and subsequently critical of their thoughts and actions. It can be very challenging to self-reflect on things you've said and done. What is/was my motivation? What am I wanting to obtain/attain? I don't know how many times I've been told by people that I think too much. I reply by saying they think too little and I have to balance the scale. Even if you don't consider yourself to be a religious person nor become one, I would still advise people to read the Bible. It is full of many insightful ideas that lead to obtaining wisdom.
So does the noble quran
'How not so good looking stand up comedians get laid'... The power of being the center of attention in a large crowd and expressing a level of power. 😁
Yup, same as 70yo rockstars who been 50 years on drugs, and look like shit, still atract 20yo girls who go crazy for them :D
@Paul Smith Yep :D cash also helps a lot
Don't you think women use these opportunities to find better men? I highly doubt they'll stick with unattractive guys for long (if they ste attractive)....they just enjoy the ride and the social opportunities that come with it
Men think about terms like power to feed the ego. You can list exceptions but they will always be rare.
I believe the fine edge for a man Is to be strong and weak with and for his woman at the appropriate times and knowing when those are. Mixing them up leads to confusion followed by rejection
There was a book I read about sex in history, talking about the human brain evolution and drives. One part suggested that the female human subconsciously is seeking to find a suitable mate that can protect and provide, whilst also creating the strongest offspring. The book laid out that humans are animals and just like animals, they seek the survival of the fittest. It even talked about scent, not perfume or deodorant but our natural scent that can literally attract or repel a potential mate, because we have the ability to be attracted scent wise to another who have diverse genetics that compliment our own. The book suggested that the reason females go for the "bad boy" is because a part of our selection process for a mate is seeking the strongest and best survival for our offspring. The "bad boy" is, in part, seen a strong, dominant male, that can defend themselves and therefore defend them, however misguided that may be. In my twenties, when i read this book, it was a revelation understanding why some of my friends were attracted to the bad boy or even abusive male, because a subconscious part of them saw them as strong genetics for offspring potentially. I understood better the drive for the attraction, which seemed to make sense to me.
This kinda proves that this issue will never go away. I've never talked to a woman who actually realises this irl. Evolution will intervene at the subconscious level no matter how hard you try to avoid it.
It's unfair to the nice guys, in terms of sexual availability.....but still a part of nature. Nature will always be unfair in other words.
Then again, beeing a badboy has it's downsides too. I think most young guys praise this status too much, and emphasize short term gratification more than long term gains. Only solution is life experience basically.
Men who abuse women aren't strong, Holly. They're weak.
I don't think I explained myself clearly and you therefore misunderstood. I do not believe a abusive male is dominant, strong etc, it is more that in the book it talked about the subconscious confusing such a male as potential strong offspring. What i took from this idea was a better understanding why someone would stay with an abusive male whilst proclaiming "I love him though" as a reason. My mother taught me " just because you love someone, doesn't mean they are right for you" a saying that stuck with me always.
@@mikejames6664 One person's use and meaning of the word "abuse" is another persons Tuesday.
@@AlicanErenKuzu stopped reading as soon as I read "as a so called bad boy"
Right, this is a very uncomfortable reality for decent young men, but the question is - is the answer or the solution to acquire those dark but somehow desirable traits? Men have bad experiences and heartbreaks stemming from them being the nice, decent guy and the woman losing interest, cheating with someone with those traits, or rejects the 'good' guy. But should we give in to this sad structure and play into the type of man or just try to find a woman that actually appreciates the 'good', nice traits?
No. 1) because the inevitable cognitive dissonance will make you unhappy. 2) even tho it may get you sex, it will get you sex with the type of women that are the origin of the phrase "don't put your dick in crazy". They'll get pregnant and then you'll be the one getting fucked.
We all have desires and fantasies. But the right woman will love you for who you are and overcome that urge to chase a guy who gives a shot about her. Women who can’t, eventually will give up on you anyway, because there is always someone embodying those „bad“ traits more than you do. Just my two cents…
Do what you wish but you'll always be inferior and have a lack of true power if you don't give in to those dark traits. True power comes when you can manipulate those dark traits to your will.
@@thesnailshow8004 put up your LinkedIn profile.
So women get bored with kindness but commit to toxicity? Wouldn’t she get tired of the toxicity as well? Do women even know or are aware of what they want are do they go with what feels good despite the logic behind it?
I was more mature when I met my husband (later 20s). I looked for someone who valued me for friendship as well as for romance. We've been married since 1983 and we still love each other's company!
7:56 so true. My friends and I all worked at the movie theater together and we would have tournaments. Everybody was good at their own respective gamer. I was unbeatable at NFL Blitz. All of the tournaments were happening, but when the Blitz one came around, they excluded me because I knew how to block field goals and they just couldn't beat me. 25 years later, they're still denying that it was just because I was that good. So yeah, that hierarchy comment about video games is spot, among the rest of the convo. I just remember them exiling me from the competition and I had to watch all of the lessers play Blitz knowing I could have obliterated them! Oh yeah, Crusin USA too!
Thank you, Jordan for helping me have a deeper understanding of some of my life choices....
Hi ramadhani Kareem
May be an unrelated point but if you don't go after the girl then you will almost always end up with someone who you had a chance of saying no to, you had a choice. If you desire someone and are overwhelmingly attracted to them then you will not give yourself that choice, and therefore there will be more staying power in the relationship in the case of how attracted you are to them. Far too many people end up in relationships because they are approached and say 'fuck it', how fucking crazy is that?
I’m higher in dark triad traits than I would like. I’m not a good person, but I have worked seriously hard on becoming a good man, with a fair degree of success, I think. To the point of even running off to a monastery for a few years.
Tbh, one of the things that I have really struggled with is knowing how much more successful I was with women before vs now. It planted a lot of insecurity in me that all of my work was in vain, and that what I’ve become really isn’t what women want, in spite of what they may think or claim.
I don’t know if I’ve found an answer for myself better than, “you do this for yourself, not for them”.
@@proudatheist2042 I was an emotionally manipulative, lying, cheating, stealing, womanizer. I exploited peoples trust, compassion, my looks and charms to get what I wanted. Arrogant, and proud of it. Verbally fluent, intellectually powerful, and physically intimidating and I enjoyed dominating people that I perceived as less intelligent and commanding attention.
How I changed is a long story. I hated being that way, and availed myself of every form of conventional psychiatric and psychotherapeutic practice. The monastery really straightened me out, saved my life, my sanity, and my soul. Grounding my attention in my body, getting out of my head. Increasing my awareness of my speech, noticing more and more when I was lying and how that made me feel (Peterson’s work helped a lot with that). Unplugging from social media and detoxing all my other addictions, resetting at a healthy baseline. Meaningful work in a community of spiritual support. The monks and nuns had a practice called “shining light” where they would give you critical feedback on your practice or moral development. Insanely useful. Staying celibate and learning to discipline my impulses. Prayer and metta meditation to increase compassion for others. Guided meditations to heal childhood traumas.
If you really believe you've become a much better man (in terms of mind, attitude and ethics/empathy, NOT muscles, clothes & money) and women don't like you anymore, then you simply need to stop wasting your time liking THEM, that's all. They're vapid and there's nothing worth liking. Fucking maybe, but not being fond of in the affectionate attachment sense.
Thank you for sharing. It’s great to hear about men like yourself who are self-aware and proactive enough to do something about the traits they don’t like in themselves.
Want to touch on what you said about not getting as many women - though they may be lower in quantity, it’s definitely higher in quality because of the work you did for yourself.
I’m struggling in the same way, to get rid of unhealthy behavior to get men’s attention, and I know I’ll get less attention from men as a result, but more attention from the men that are good for me and likes me as a whole vs for my looks.
Basically saying, don’t let that determine your progress, because what you’ve accomplished is so impressive, the woman suited for you, who have done the work herself, would surely see that be attracted to it.
@@sentientbeans thanks. You’re right.
I wasn’t really “attracted” to bad boys. I never had the confidence or self worth to date a real man. I didn’t think I was good enough.
I was immature so I got with immature, selfish men who acted nice at first and then after I was emotionally invested and they figured out that I was too nice and forgiving and could get away with abusing and using me, they treated me badly by manipulating and gaslighting me.
Yep. You chose men based on their looks as opposed to who they are as people. Women always do this.
@@masteryoda1258 no, they weren’t that attractive either . They weren’t ugly either. Just ok
@@masteryoda1258 I didn’t feel good enough or have enough confidence to get with an attractive guy either.
Good looking men like confident women, whether they are pretty or not.
In the reverse direction, there are men who are attracted to mixed-up women.
This also should be a discussion as a common mystery to more level-headed people.
Dealing with a partner’s heavy baggage/issues is a tough burden, and not worth it in initial stage relationships. Don’t let yourselves be dragged down into another’s hell in first meeting even a physically attractive person.
Of course nobody really likes a Don Draper, someone who constantly takes advantage of mixed-up women-even Don disliking himself-in the fictional _Mad Men_ series about him.
We need those burdens too. We take that on for a a purpose. I too fall for women who scream "save me". In my experience.
@@Maga2024lul A messiah complex fails at all levels, whether in everyday relationships or as far as in power ambition in leading a country.
I see it as egocentric, with a dark side of grabbing for gratification in taking advantage of others. That’s why I mentioned the Don Draper case in relationships.
It can lead to criminality in those seeking power. Cult of personality is an extreme case among those seeking power.
People should be guided by consistent, internalized, self-disciplined principles, not by personalities/people.
@@EK14MeV I don't mean in order to seek validation for myself but to give myself away. What I mean by that is what you said. Them principles ,discipline and hard truths is what I've been building daily. To give that away is why I believe it works.
@@proudatheist2042 I've been married 10 years going on 11 September and I've had many breaking points but once I dealt with my ego, I can see clear to help my wife build a team rather then destroy it you feel me? My mom isba hustler that's always worked. Always been the glue and the guru of the family. I hope that answers that question.
Though it's not that common among men compared to in womn, men aren't that picky.
I think it's not that women "like bad guys". It's just that high status men with good genes that are clearly expressed (good looking), can afford not to be nice. And not being nice often costs less energy than being nice. They are spoiled for choice, so it doesn't matter as much if bad behaviour shies a few women away. If a man is ugly and unsuccessful and treats women bad, he's not considered a "bad boy" he's simply considered a creep and undesirable. It's only good looking men that receive this terminology.
So true.
Facts. The difference between being a creep and being a catch is attractiveness
@@andyleung913 That is very true.
That's interesting because I believe we live in a time with the most diverse amounts of status hierarchy and ways to be respected yet people seem to be at their unhappiest.
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
"Really low agreeableness, high consciousness types are really quite interesting because you can trust them because they'll do their duty, but they're very direct and blunt and harsh and that can be very helpful as well because they'll tell you unpleasant truths even if you hurt your feelings, so there's some utility in that."
I just wanted to type this out for other people because he said this so quickly that I couldn't follow when I heard it.
That's bs. its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
I don’t remember ever being attracted to bad boys. I feel like I always appreciated kindness and politeness.
Same
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up + you're assuming the topic of convo is a high value man,
That’s a blessing. Im hoping to find some one like that. That isn’t attractive to bad boys.
Im a nice guy. But certain not a bad boy. This society is messed up on how relationships are brought up as a show off. Vs human beings that actually give a damn about people in general.
It annoys how some stupidly on why the girls I like are interested in bad boys.
People should be wiser instead of wanting to get hurt from being interested by the bad boys.
If you read any average romance, or look around at teens getting into relations, it's usually like that
I remember back when I got out of college and got my first job, industrial sales. Three piece suit, company car, company paid travel, many perks, company credit card, very good income. I was also single and had really no problem in attracting younger women, early 20's, as I was also in my early 20's. However, I was somewhat unsure of myself, since I was just starting out in the real world, and was told by some to "fake it until you make it." Looking back, I wonder if my inability to develop a lasting relationship was that the women eventually saw through my facade?
Dark Triad:
1. Narcissism = Confidence/Self-esteem -
2. Machiavelianism = Competitive/Success-driven
3. Psychopathy = Adamance/determination/resilience to being controlled by emotions and other people
I would like to add my experience in life. I am 43. I was raised by a narcissistic abusive father and a loving mother who taught me to be nice. So I learned how to be a monster in a sense and how to be kind to women. I was small and weak as a child until 15-16 yrs of age. I was picked on and had very little success with women. I have to learn how to talk and be funny/charming to have any discourse with women. I started lifting weights wrestling and competing in boxing. Fast forward 20 years. I am 6’2 210 lbs. I have a shaved head and a beard and I am pretty muscular with tattoos. Every time I was nice to women I was borderline abused. When I learned to focus on myself. My physical mental and spirituAl health, women naturally gravitated towards me but on my terms. I will also add, do not mistake kindness with weakness. I am still very kind to all but if pushed to a certain place, capable of almost unrelenting violence. BecAuse I spent so long being nice, I also was fixated on violence in the recesses of mind. I learned to be capable of violence through 20 years of trAining/fighting. I dont want to use it per se but I wouldnt mind it. Watch out for the quiet nice guys. They often hide the monster inside.
That's how it should be. Men need to be "monsters" at times when the situation calls for it. That's just having survival sense
@@Alaskanman warriors in the garden not gardeners in the war
Do not mistake kindness for weakness. And muscle is only one form of strength. We live like pond-life these days - no true depth in our appreciation of life and gratitude. These unhappy women will go on being unhappy as life is all about them. They give not. They will be alone, childless, and ugly and old.
@@LoveOneAnotherHeSaid agreed
I’m a narcissist who’s aware of his condition for nearly a decade and I find their argument accurate per my experience with women. It has always been easy to impress women way out of my league but sustaining a relationship has been quite a challenge. And to add onto the young women argument, narcissistic or not , every men instinctively desire women in their prime for biological reasons. Narcissists tend to be the ones to say f you to the cultural norms and pursue their desires while others limit their reach to the age groups that’s not out of the ordinary.
Yeah I had that ezperience in my teenage years. Tbh its not hard to play the bad boy game and get attention. the difficult part is keeping someone long term and avoiding burning out
That's all obvious. Now what are you doing to become the man who can connect to a modern woman?
How much do a person's external physical traits affect their mating behavior? I don't think of a bad boy being stuck in an unattractive body would be very successful so I think they have to develop other qualities which can pay off in the long term.
It's 100%. Bad boy only works for attractive men. Everything you do as an unattractive bad boy is 'creepy', 'weird' or 'insulting'. Many people would come up with bad counter example. This may result in some categories. (1) They don't really know how to evaluate attractiveness ex: Men may consider Justin Bieber as unattractive. No, men don't get to judge their attractiveness just like women don't get to give themselves a 10. There are traits that women would consider attractive. Justin Bieber falls into like 9/10 and the last one isn't a major flaw. (2) Physical attractiveness is strongly related to your genetics and not your outfit or haircut. Attractive men can compensate a bad haircut or outdated fashion (Retro), but not the other way. (3) They think money and status can compensate their attractiveness. No, money and status are a great boost, but money only makes him a well provider and status is only served for her exposure. Money and status are exaggerated. Women can make money nowadays. They don't have to settle for the fear of starvation, and they have social media for exposure. On the surface, all is good, and he has a happy family. Deep down what she really wants is for him to raise her and the attractive men's children so they can go on a date. He owes her even though he pays for almost everything. Most men would be astonished by how much women are willing to pay when they go on a date with an attractive man (Don't worry. I only see it through my own eyes). They can be in prison, broke or all the reasons women would use when they reject an unattractive man. They set rules for 6s and break it for the 9s and 10s. (4) First serve bias. Meaning the women is on her first date or early days of dating. She does not really know her value and you are lucky to be a 6 while all other men are 4s. This is almost dead due to Apps like Tinder, Facebook...etc. (5) Wrong timeframe. He was a bad boy, and he was attractive. People thought time freezes and the bad boy is still working. No, the women is freaking out and wants to leave the relationship as soon as possible. (6) False Media Impressions. ex: Hollywood nerdy vibes. Jesse Eisenberg is thought of as a nerd. No, he is extremely attractive just lower when put aside Henry Cavill. (7) Attractiveness is subjective. No, it's just there are other factors that can create preference. Most women would prefer a pretty boy in her early days but chooses a Chad as time goes on. Maturity is just one of the factors. There are many more. (8) Women claims they don't care about looks. Do you still believe what they say by now? There are some other categories, but looks is 100%
Like learning to refrain from crime and staying out of jail? Related to physical traits or psychological? Celebrities are not bad boys. They are “make believes” another step down from “wannabes”
This is nice to see, two equally knowledgeable men (on the topic) having this conversation.
Happy that Jordan looks much more livelier! Best wishes Jordan!
I’m glad Jordan spoke on how it is often young and naive women who fall for dark triads. I would also like to add that sometimes it’s not that women go for overt bad guys. Sometimes the bad guy carries himself as a kind hearted, community beacon (who uses love bombing as a technique to secure his supply) behind closed doors it’s a different story. This is why it’s useless to ask why women choose abusive men, they don’t... there’s exceptions or course but often its not the intention. This can apply in reversed roles. Men can be abused and love bombed by manipulative women. This is why personal introspection and responsibility is essential in order to acknowledge our personal weaknesses and why we are subconsciously drawn to deceptive forms of the dark triad personalities . It is our job to reckon with our personal issues.
You’re probobly drawn to them because they’re more physically attractive and that’s part of the reason they don’t really care about anyone other than themselves. There’s not as much consequences for them behaving badly. Same as really attractive girls oftentimes being mostly ego.
@@AR-rn8ok Not necessarily. In fact I personally avoided physically attractive types particularly because of the reputation that is associated with them. The irony is that I was not initially attracted to the man the wound up being abusive. It turns out hidden insecurities can be just as destructive. I think we assume attractive guys can get any girl they like and use manipulation and charm in the process due to the confidence. This might be true to a point. However a man or women who has deep insecurities regardless of their physical attributes can be destructive on an entirely different level.
No. Your so dumb you think a polite evil person is confident and great.
You compared authentic confident men, to evil like confident men.
One is more sparkly and kiss butt, yet teases you. That’s your con man.
Normal confident guys don’t really tease chicks.
Also you gals like to play above your game level… so pump n dump is something you run to because you gamble you can take a dude who doesn’t really like you that much as a challenge.
Face it. We’re a mess in the West.
Great grandmas n grandpas are the best to vet dates… not ourselves.
@@MistyEry Women choose abusive men on purpose
💯
I hear a lot of people say you have to treat a woman like trash if you want them to stay. Or they will take advantage of you if your kind. I can't believe that.
It's true though, that's how fucked up society is
@@themanwithnothingtolose But you should also not become a trash in front of her
Good boys pay her bills, bad boys gives her thrills. Sad but true
You hear lots of people saying that because the majority of society is filled with shallow superficial people. There are lots of broken men and women, creating this hellish cycle
Helena nista had replied to this idea in one of her comment section. What she said is right. If the woman is still staying with you even if you treat her like trash, then she must be a weak woman. But that trash treatment won't works to a dominating or toxic woman. They'll destroy you; means, they make you penniless or lock you in a prison.
Jordan, kudos on your last few podcasts! It seems that your topics took a little dip in the recent past (mostly of political nature). It's good to see you taking steps into the unknown in fields where you have a vast amont of knowledge to begin with and please, do a psychological analysis of the New Testament asap, you're a great curator! Lastly, you said you were working on a new book? Can you give us a few details?
Thanks,
Matt ✌️
I think the book is called something with his journey to God
I've always been attracted to the "bad boy" because I feel like if I can make a person who loves no one, love me, I must be special.
Very rarely does a person change their basic nature. A bad boy will still be a bad boy. He just gets better at hiding it and controlling it.....or not.
@@matthewk6731 oh, yes. I have since learned, but my younger self thought I could save the world.
@@FoxcHoney This is a general female mindset (wanting to fix the bad boy, which generally blows up in their face) Generally the moment they manage to "change" the bad boy into a good boy, they lose interest in him. If you're a guy reading this Its a shit test, the things that they want to fix about you are they very things that attracted them to you in the first place.
It sounds to me like you have dark triad tendencies yourself. You chased bad boys because you wanted their validation the most. You didn't do it to help heal them. You did it for personal gain. Girls like you are what I call the 'clingers'. No matter how much I try to get rid of you, you will always come back for more.
Literally every young girl thinks like you
I really do not get why some ppl on the left hate Jordan. Ive never seen him hate on women or any group. He tries to analyze people and from everything ive seen help ppl make their lives better. Yet he gets these "gotcha" questions then his thoughtful responses are taken out of context. Seriously anyone who thinks jordan is some danger to society needs 2 listen to him. He is a scientist with knowledge in hierarchies. I just hate how ppl just attack him because he is against laws forcing language. Yet they think he is against lgbtq/etc. Except he is not he is just very knowledgeable of societies who have destroyed themselves by making so many laws and turning its population on each other. OPEN UR MIND listen to people u "think" dont share your beliefs. Bet my life ull find something to learn or at very least question your own beliefs. You should challenge yourself regularly. If you only listen too/watch ppl who "agree" with you , you're going down the wrong road
Whatever what was wrong with religion in the Dark Ages, is now appearing again today in the Left wing groups (LGBT, BLM, Green energy, etc wokeism).
Close mindedness, useful idiots & profiteering activists.
My nephew has voiced negative feelings towards Jordan and I’ve asked him to keep an open mind. He hasn’t responded to me in weeks.
I’m not a far leftist, but I am pretty liberal. AND I love what Jordan P has to say.
He's an actual intellectual, and that's all the left needs to hate, a free thinker
They don't like him because he bases his arguments on objective reasoning and empirical data and in doing so, his arguments invalidate the erroneous world view of leftists who have a subjective perspective that frequently fail reality tests, namely that they are permanent victims of an oppressive society. Much like how a teenager will resent their parents during a rebellious phase for trying to instil discipline (which is important and will help the teenager), leftists resent Peterson because he tells it like it is, rather than how leftists wish it ought to be. This is probably confronting and even disturbing to leftists because their entire world view and subsequent ideals for the world are concerned with ameliorating or protecting their emotional deficiencies and the weaknesses of others.
M. Scott Peck wrote a book called "People of the Lie" wherein he made the case that human evil can be defined as those who attack others instead of facing their own failures and I believe that succinctly describes what modern Leftism/Wokism is as an ideology - attacking other people and ideas whilst trying to change society and the world so it doesn't elicit negative emotional feelings in the individual. The solution here is the same solution that Peterson espouses; it's not a matter of changing the world to be this or that, it's about taking responsibility for yourself and your life and choosing to become a stronger person i.e growing the fuck up.
Leftists will simply never accept that they are ironically the custodians of their own suffering and that maturity is the answer to their problems because change is uncomfortable and difficult, often painfully so, but remains one of the most important endeavours in life - whereas blaming other people for your own weaknesses and shortcomings is easy and requires no effort on your part.
TL;DR Leftists hate Peterson because they are emotionally children and refuse to grow up because it's difficult
"Women would rather be beat to death than bored to death"
Ouch...
No.
@@avapilsen and yet their heart rate goes up when they see a bad boy, while their knees lock together around overtly nice guys..
Women never stop being attracted to these traits, they just understand that these kind of people are not likely to commit.
The same way men put less emphasis on a woman's looks as they get older, but they never stop being attracted to them
Yea...i think the married people here are deluding themselves by saying its usually the young women that fall for it and that women just want the protector or provider. As someone with nearly every symptom of all three of the triad its actualy laughable. For background I've never had a stable job situation, I'm not exceptionally attractive or tall and I'm many times quite shy. The only thing im exceptional in is having a charismatic presence that seems pull them in pull them in like a tractor beam. It's almost magical. In my experience it doesnt matter whether they're in a relationship or married whatsoever. I just think women NEED to be put in their place by men but our society is reaching total emasculation especially in the younger generations so women are GASPING for it . I cant tell you how many times women who I barely know or just met have asked me to slap them or choke them. I actually dont even like it but they almost always demand it. In my experience older women generaly do know im most definitely not for a relationship but they're happy to play with fire regardless. I think we all know this but are very uncomfortable with the true reality of female nature. " I am afraid that woman appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters, all the same. They love being dominated." Oscar wilde
Where's the scientific evidence to your claims?
@@avapilsen I haven't provided scientific evidence just like these men haven't. It's observation.
Women never truly like bad boys because they're bad, they just like their characteristics - risk taking, confidence, willingness to go against the grain, they normally find it harder/impossible to push around "bad boys" as compared to "nice guys" etc.
Paieed with decent/high intelligence I'd say that vast majority of fortune 500 CEOs actually have these traits, yet they aren't exactly bad boys. Think Harvey Spector.
I hope this answer is to your satisfaction. I'm actually interested in having a civil discourse with you.
@@monkeydotbizness Your are exceptionally attractive for that to happen , don't dailude your self on how your personality matters . If you ugly u ugly .And if you don't have access to the social circles that women tipically hang out u would be alone . Congratulations on your sexual conquest , but I think it's about other reasons , and to add to that very good social awareness and ability to socialize .
And why they will cheat if given the opportunity.
Very interesting topic and it helps me understand current dating. For myself I always had quite the disgust against people with these dark triad traits (especially narcissism paired up with low consciousness) and/or fell prey to them (like manipulative people).
I would really like to know what we can do as individuals and as a society to contain their damage. In my teens I was just too young to understand what's going on social hierarchy wise so I always ended up making myself the outsider.. Now it's rather the opposite as I'm aware of all these concepts (thanks JBP!).
But there is also not a single word about the Womens agency. Wouldn't it be the womens responsibility to incentivize more "good men" (acc. JBP's definition) than Dark Triad men too? Responsibility must taken on by both sides otherwise the game can't work.
women cant incentivize "good men" because their attraction to bad boys is biological.
The words Women and responsibility do not even belong in the same sentence.
This isn't an academic exercise. A political scientist published a paper several decades ago in which he commented on the "feminization" of politics in the West (his word). He stated that there appeared to be an increased emphasis on superficiality and externalities rather than issues. So things like whether the candidate was good looking, or had nice hair, or said nice things were becoming more important than what the candidate did or his/her policies.
For me, this single paper explains 100% why western civilization is on the verge of collapse.
Heard that before. A young girl that I worked with years ago said when she went to vote she asked if they had any pictures of the candidates because she wanted to vote for "the cute ones" SMH
@@tommcfadden5232 you sure about that? Because plenty of places only have men in power and are shitholes. Look at Arab countries.
can you provide a link or name of this study. I want to check it out
An early part of the feminine Individuation process may be at work when you see young women attracted to men with these “dark triad” traits. Particularly in young women who experienced rejection by their father (or both parents). Many young women become chronic “givers” and constellate “takers” around them, over giving is as toxic as over taking. These young women often live in a pattern of pouring everything they have into an unhealthy relationship, mirroring whatever that other person wants them to be until there is absolutely nothing left of themselves. It’s at that point a woman with this sort of problem can find her own self worth and stop “casting pearls before swine”.
I wish I had learned my lesson about the dark triad type when I was young. Married one when I was 18 and and another when I was 38. Devastating effects both times. I do have a tendency to be very naïve. Although I must admit, the second time I knew and I married him anyway. I told myself that it would be OK, and the good would outweigh the bad. Very naïve decision.
how old are you now?
You deserve it
Why didn’t you marry non-dark triad types?
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
Great chat, although complicated to follow even for psychologists. My concern is, why you repeatedly refer to the big 5 traits? From neuropsychology or neuroscience we can arguably add more traits (e.g. impulsivity). Why still using the big 5 when personality characterization can be more fine grained?
I think Peterson would argue the other psychological traits are emergent from the basic 5. That is the other traits don't correlate independent of the big 5.
Impulsivity is just high in neurotisim
I was 17 and I was kind of attracted to this guy (19) where I worked. He didn't talk much or interact with fellow workmates, but one evening a workmate brought some beers to celebrate his birthday and, after half a glass, this guy started reciting Mark Antony's soliloquy. I had never known a teenage boy of my acquaintance who seemed to have a passing acquaintance with Shakespeare. He caught my attention big time. Two years later we married, 50 years this coming December.
His looks caught my attention, but his intelligence sealed the deal. He has a gentle nature but could be dangerous in the right circumstances. We complement each other in our strengths and weaknesses.
Cool story bro. So a guy that's your type and kind of nerd got you all frothy in the loins.
Holy sh…I just wrote a 19 chapter book on this. I’m pretty late to the party…still putting it out especially with what’s happening today but I have another layer I think may help understand it a little more. Thanks for being you sir, very big inspiration for me studying psychology today.
All is fair in love and war. People have a misconception of what leadership is? They think it is the person who can shout the loudest or be the most intimidating. Interrupt, berate or belittle other people. It is not. They are just bullies.
@Randall Slaughter Lol
@Randall Slaughter we used to take a stand against bullies as individuals e.g. if a kid was being bullied, he'd have to fight his bully and earn his right not to be bullied. Today we tell "authority" and the bullying usually continues, the kid grows up with low self esteem, kills himself or moves schools.
@Randall Slaughter look, now more than ever adults are working more. They won't have the time and energy to be a parent outside of providing for them. You have to help your children defend themselves. Bullying doesn't finish with school, it carries onto the work place too.
I'm not sure why you're making this person, let's keep it rational like men. The kids in school shootings are kids who went through long episodes of bullying and didn't do anything about it. You have to step up the moment you're being bullied, once bullies see a victim, it's over for you.
There is no fairy godmother that's going to change the bullies mind, it's up to you to solve your problems.
@Randall Slaughter i guess the little rat has to step up. the world can be a cruel place. People bully people that they can get away with.
Bullies exert power over the bullied
And that's attractive