PRONI - The Hidden History of Protestants & The Irish Language
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2014
- Linda Ervine, Irish Language Development Officer at East Belfast Mission, delivered a talk that looked directly at the historical links between Protestants and the Irish Language. This talk was given in PRONI on 11th June 2014
For more information regarding PRONI please visit our website at www.proni.gov.uk
You can also get the latest news and updates about PRONI by joining our emailing list at proni@dcalni.gov.uk
I recently began teaching myself Irish, a desire I have long had. It was hampered by being a Presbyterian from N. Belfast raised during 'The Troubles'. which made opportunities and facilities to do so practically non-existent. Coming across this post has been revelatory, and a source of great encouragement. I am delighted to see a non-stereotyping, positive slant on Ulster Protestantism for once, depicting the history, and not the media-grabbing minority who get all the attention. I want to sincerely thank Linda Ervine for her efforts and passion, and wish more power to her elbow. Go raibh maith agat.
Hope it's going well for you man.
Dual identity. Can be British and Irish. Speaking Irish probably connects you more with Britain anyway, considering there's Scots Gaelic, Welsh, and Cornwall Gaelic. In Ulster it's a disaster because if you speak Irish or have an interest in the language you're immediately labelled as a nationalist, republican, pope lover, catholic, Provo obsessed etc. Linda Ervine is British but she also is more Irish in my view anyway than alot of Irish nationalists because she actually speaks the Irish language. She has imbraced irishness into her identity.
Fellow Presbyterian here. I was initially curious about it but I now teach Irish.
I was up from Dublin yesterday visiting East Belfast to visit sites associated with C S Lewis. I came across Templemore Avenue and thought of my own home town in Tipperary called Templemore. It means “The Big Church” so somewhere in East Belfast there must have been an original Big Church. I am currently learning Scots Gaidhlig. Great to see the interest in our shared languages of Celtic origin.
I learned a huge amount from this video. I had known that some of the earliest and best Irish language scholarship was from Belfast Presbyterians. Go raibh maith agaibh.
@@DonalLeader Don't be fooled Donal, the only possible connections of Ulster Scots are individuals of Scotch Gaelic extraction from King Fergus Mor's invasion when he conquered Argyll from the Picts in around 500AD. Most Ulster Scots descend lowland Scots with little or no Gaelic blood. Uladh na nGael, ansin, anois agus go deo
@@ew6080 Fíor dhuit! Yes, I’ve been reading Myles Dillon’s work on this early history and also been following some podcasts on when Alba came into existence. Fascinating stuff.
Love the high-quality presentations she offers!
Thank you Linda. This was a wonderful talk.
Speaking as someone rared as a southern catholic, I'd say I had more admiration for the protestant nationalists in irish history such as wolfe tone or robert emmet/united irishman, simply reason is that had a love for ireland that goes further back in history then catholic counterpart, all the way back to gaelic druids, before there was even any such thing as relgion to divide people on these islands. everywhere in europe and even parts of asia spoke celtic langauges before the romans conquered all and today the only places thats left is the celtic langauges on these two islands off the west coast of europe, its actually mind boggling the wealth of history
@CorkCityFC RebelArmy Believe it or not many a protestant have greater respect a much older part of irish history before christianity even arrived, like the high kings/Druidic lore etc. They connect more than the roman church with oldest christian church in ireland the culdee church, many catholics are ignorant of that far back, they may not have been taught it through the schooling system so there blind to it.
very important work you are doing Linda ,brilliant video
Well done Linda. Bulagh bus. Great presentation. I learned a lot and it was very informative and entertaining too. I would like to see a follow up presentation as to how and why attitudes changed. Politics no doubt.
well done and superb presentation
VERY educational.
Thankyou Mrs. Ervine for your well presented and very interesting lecture. As a RC Priest from Britain I always wondered why the N. Irish seemed to have rejected the Irish language, when in Wales it was the Protestant free Churches and the Anglicans that used Welsh the most to get their message across to the majority of People. It seems I also have had a poor education in School. Thankyou again for your eye-opening lecture and keep up the good work. God bless, Fr. Raphael Amor
What a most enlightening lecture. I do think that in Ireland we need more understanding and less slogans to bring about a much better society.
Mrs Irvine you are a wonderful woman, educator , and historian. May your God always be with you.
@@coventrykid1963 She's none of these. She's a loyalist, who just discovered her husband's family happened to speak Irish in the early part of the 20th century. Now she had developed an interest in the language.
She states Irish is a British language in the British Isles. Ireland is not part of the British Isles, therefore Irish is not a British language. It's far older than anything British.
The Irish language survives because Irish people continued to speak the language.
Protestants in NI are mostly descendents from Scottish planters. The Irish language and Ireland predates them by 1500 years at least.
@@teresaryan4242 the island of Ireland is in the British isles you twit, its like saying Canada is not on the North american continent...
@@PS-ru2ov The north of Ireland (6 counties) as we in the ROI call them is in the UK not GB there ios no such place as the British Isles nor the British channel .
@@lolmuc7529 someone from the UK is British that is the synonym for someone from the UK and that includes People from Northern Ireland ...my "British " passport under nationality says "British citizen" I was born in Northern Ireland...and there is a place as the British isles it's a geographical name not a political one...
Go hiontach ar fad Linda. I just now came upon this post. I knew that Irish was spoken in the Glens until relatively recently but all of this was news to me! It should not be surprising really as much of the revival in the south was pioneered by Protestants. I never understood the hostility some Unionists have for the language except of course if it was considered a "Catholic" language then certainly they would not want to have anything to do with it! The Welsh have always been proud of their language which doesn't seem to have deminished their Britishness one bit. Even in Scotland recently I was delighted by the number of Gaelic signs I saw - like "Failte" outside a pub or restaurant etc.Go raibh míle maith agat as an clár seo.
Is no surrender not aon ghéilleadh in Gaelic???
Oh, no, I appreciate your perception, but there's so much more to it. Keep looking intoit.
What do you mean.
You may need to show this upload to the wonderful Arlene Foster. It'll give her nightmares for a long, long time. 🤣
what does proni stand for? I HAVE a feeling it is an acronym for Protestant Northern Ireland. it does not matter, naturallly. hope i am not being too nosey or rude.
Public Records Office of Northern Ireland
Now you know what PRONI stands for! I have to say it was my first guess also. There's a lesson in that somewhere..... Go dté tú slán, a Dheasúin !
The woman in this video is very misinformed. Gaelic is not spoken in Wales or cornwall or britianny, there is two languages in Ireland and Britain. Gaelic and Brytonic, Gaelic originated in Ireland and spread to Scotland when the scots who where from Ireland settled in Northern Britain.
Why wouldn't Ulster not have a Gaelic heart ,named after Clan Ulaidh (McCulloch),our folks from Dun Na Gall,fluent and Protestant to core,Ar Canan agus Cultar,a language of all our island.
McCulloch is most likely Scotch Gaelic Mac Cullach, son of the boar.
Definitely would be fantastic for the language north and south if people were bilingual.
The famous song mentioned clan ulaidh as McCulloch between Ulster and Scotland! Air do banais!
@@grahamfleming9179 I’m not familiar with a song, could you link it or name it?
Given my own surname is McCullagh I’m curious
@@beaglaoich4418 it is a Scots gaelic song" air do banais" but the Clan ulaidh was clan McCulloch .that was twenty years ago I cannot remember who sang it I think it was cathy macphie from the Eilean Siar.
Definitely Ulster though!
@@grahamfleming9179 interesting, I’ll have a listen to some versions, thank you.
I’m wondering about the connection between Mac Cullach/Mac Culloch and Ulster, typically in the process of anglicisation, they were able to roughly phonetically approximate the Gaelic names.
Given the names tend to be son/daughter of an individual either by profession title or name I suspect that it’s more likely Mac Cullach is not Mac Uladh as to be so should’ve resulted in variations of the name without the “c” at the start of the word.
I ascribe to the theory that it is Mac Cullach, son of the boar, with it being the nickname or title given to an excellent warrior.
Though as a child I was told that it meant and what I suspect is a more recent gaelicisation of the English spelling was Mac Cú Uladh, son of the hound of Ulster, Cú Chulainn. Though most likely this is wrong interesting that 2 given derivatives refer to the patriarch as an animal
Sure there are a few inaccuracies here - Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx (Gaeilge, Gaidhlig, Gaelg) all belong to the Goidelic group of Celtic languages while Welsh, Cornish and Breton to the Brythonic group. However, the heart was in the right place. Great to see people embracing the culture around them. One of the worst things you can do is to define yourself in terms of who you think you're not (and that applies to all sides).
Yep cant argue with that,my surname is found predomantly,in the Isle of Man,but not in the Anglised form.I live in the southern part of Ireland,and I have English roots,on my grandmothers side,of the family,and they were anglicans, Church of Ireland,my loyalty is to my fellow Irish people,and land and to nobody else,that includes the EU empire,or any other empire for that matter.
well aint it an irony that the Scotti themselves came from Ireland way back then..
I mean this with no disrespect... It’s not a fact that’s hidden if you read a bitta history and have an ability to join the dots!!😅🤷🏻♂️ First King of Scotland came from a Lineage of Kings from Ulaid...😃👍🏻🍀
I think it's sad that the Northern Irish don't have a language of there own, or shall I say lost it. I noticed that the Northern Irish accent was more of Scottish sounding one than in the South. As a matter of fact, most people I met in the North were of Scottish decent. So the British made it a crime to speak Irish once, therefore I suppose it was lost in Northern Ireland as well then? It wasn't politically correct to speak what they were speaking in the South? I happy that now people are taking it back in the North and South!
your lordship, it was not the BRITISH who outlawed irish and made english the lingo of social advancement. it was the ENGLISH wot dunnit, mate!!
Don't blame it all on England, Scotland is just as much as anyone else.
There were actually native monolingual Irish speakers in parts of Tyrone until the 1960s.
@@1948DESMOND the Republic has been free of British rule... sorry English rule for 100 years. When do we stop blaming them and take some responsibility. We have had 100 years to bring back our language and we can hardly still blame the English for the terrible job our state has done in doing so.
Ulster had own language mix of ulster and scots
Go míle maith agat agus iad Grá do chuid obair na Gaelige.
She had me intrigued until she said the Irish language was British. Good that she is acknowledging how they Anglicanized all the beautiful Irish names throughout the centuries. Stole our land and our names.
Relax Emmett. It’s a pity you decided to focus on the 0.1% of this talk that “perhaps” some might not agree with. Sad.
I think her thought trail is it’s across the British Isles, it’s a British language. The contribution to the Gaelic Revival of people from this community shouldn’t be lessened because we disagree with their political or religious background or for the actions they played no part in getting here.
Goidelic and Brythonic languages have a shared ancestry.
Should also be noted that strong links with Ulster is why the land they settled is named after the Irish tribe; the Scoti not the Picti.
Scotch Gaelic is closely related because of many migrations between this island and that land. Which is typified by the fact Finlay is of Scotch Gaelic origin.
The woman was saying that Gaelic languages are spread out through the British isles which is correct. Linda's audience is people who strongly identify as British she's trying to get them not to be afraid of the language
You wouldn't take from this, that she is promoting, and advocating being Irish, would you?
Can you think of any other group who does this?
I know my heritage, I'm Ulster Scots.
My language is English, and Ulster Scotch is my second.
And I thank God for this!
My adopted Sean athair was from oilean toraidh ri taobh tir conail. My own Protestant ancestors are from dun na Gall. ULSTER/ulaidh has a rich Irish history. Its time for peace. The majority have spoken the Irish parliament has to drop the catholic superior constitution let us adopt a true Erinn.nobody in the eyes of god is superior to him we are equal !pope of rome or queen of England .
Make it a true island of saints.
Peace is the true religion.
Cut the nonsense out!
So what. It was all Ireland at one time. There are no protestant schools only state school. Northern Ireland is mixed heritage. Its English. Ulster Scots. Irish mix. So let's hear some ulster Scots as equal after all its mainly ulster. Spike very British born in India of military British life. French this 20yrs not best first choice of languages to learn. Catholics spoke more Latin by rule of their faith. Presbyterians kept Irish language going.
She said Gaeilge is a British language . Talk about cultural appropriation and historical revisionism..
From start to finish .smh lol
Aye the same unionists who voted (overall majority) to put Irish Catholic immigrants in concentrated numbers of people in camps in Scotland his was during the thirties this was the Scottish answer to the Irish question what to do about these people but the idea was scrapped after news of Dachau n other such camps in Germany... But religion is a social curse when we r born we have no religion it is bestowed upon us as a gift of God a god who may not exist n who really cares . . without any religion people will still exist but with less need to hate .
Waste of time, will neither put money in my pocket or bread on my table. I'll stick with the Queen's English, why? Because it's more of a universal language. If protestants want to learn a second language then pick one that will help their communities economically. E.g., Arabic, Cantonese, Spanish and Portuguese.
Ha ha, even your name is Gaelic. Amadán.
Bilingualism from a young age improves many cognitive abilities, and make it easier to learn more languages as your brain isn’t accustomed to only one language, so it puts bread on the table in the end. Plus the worlds more interesting when we speak other languages. So it’s very beneficial to raise people bilingual, or to learn another language at a later age. Besides, how does learning any of those languages help a community unless that community moves to the country where it’s spoken?
You dont speak the queens english haha.
@@Londubh1 Gerry Adams has an English surname. Is he a Brit then? Wise up.
@@paddymac5161 opinions vary