As a Republican I have nothing but the greatest respect for David Ervine, always one of the most progressive forward thinking unionists, he brought many militant loyalists in from the cold and into the political arena, the ceasefire and peace process could not have happened without him, he in my eyes is the Martin McGuinness of loyalism He should have been at the head of power sharing with Republicans not Ian Paisley or Peter Robinson. Rather than condemn or demonise us he was prepared to give us a chance and listen even if he didn’t always agree. That in itself was a massive step forward He reached out the hand of friendship to us to the point were some of his own turned on him but still remained firm in his beliefs. That is the greatest quality anyone can ever have So called unionist leaders today are not fit to lace his boots, we would be a hell of a lot further forward if he were still here A man of great integrity and principle. God rest him RIP mochara
@@belfastblue7489 life,death, social engineering, social conditioning ? & ? nearly everyone sat at that table i met, on behalf of the republican community, Gusty talks about Eokra, we talked, i talked about the Mau Mau, Tyrone Brigade read up on Mau geurilla warfare tactics, we talked David did the best Gerry Adams impression i,ve ever heared, Part Four the end game, (coded wording) Gerry Adams mentioned were all insignificant, (coded wordind)we talked, life? Death?social conditioning, "the human condition"social engineering. We talked.
I’m a Catholic who Grew up in Northern all through the troubles.David Ervine in a personal hero of mine and we would not have a peace process without the contributions of these men
David Ervine was a true treasure. A giant of a human being. And he doesn't get near enough credit for the part he played in ending the violence and staring true Democracy in Northern Ireland.
and of course Gusty Spence ... I'm a massive Trump fan but ... the Good Friday Agreement would never have happened if not for the huge efforts of President Clinton...
Ironically they’re the most of militant of loyalists. Literally the political thinkers of the Ulster Defence Association and Ulster Volunteer Force. And even more ironic is the fact these politicians and their predecessors were advocating for joint rule in NI in the 70s!
Im a Republican and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that David Ervine makes me sit up and take on board the hopes and aspirations of his people who are Loyalist folk, just as my folk are Republican. Most hard line Loyalists think he is "soft" , but I ask those hard liners to seriously take on board the following very important principal which has a massively greater impact for their cause and that is the fact that their long held strategy of shouting "No, never, not an inch, no surrender" has the complete opposite effect of furthering their cause. No one, and I mean no one listens to that anymore. Furthermore, decision makers in high office simply close their ears to this reteric and do not take people shouting it seriously at all. Think about it. David Ervine has a way to make his enemies sit up and listen which is extreamly important in negotiations. Believe me, he has much respect within the decision making circles, those who spout the No, Never stuff have zero respect and therefor are just not listened to.
The PUP were absolutely vital to the Good Friday Agreement. Amazing that they were by far the most progressive of the Unionist/ Loyalist parties. RIP David Ervine and Gusty Spence
Fascinating discussion to listen to some 30 years later. The Good Friday Agreement. 25 years of relative peace. Brexit and massive changes in politics in the U.K. and ROI. What stands out is how far we have come from these very dark days. I am impressed by the thinking then as it seems more forward looking and willing to talk than what I hear from the DUP today.
I though David Ervine was a bit abrasive in this debate but without a doubt his analysis and honesty about the history of the conflict was refreshing, sad he’s no longer with us because what Ulster Unionism is lacking is true working class representation that David brought to the table.
"By the will of the people" 1918 elections in Ireland clearly stated that a majority of the people on the island wanted Irish independence, what did the British do? they partitioned the island under threat of orange terror and created a sectarian state in the north east of Ireland.
@Jackthefilmfanatic You are right of course about the Good Friday Agreement. We are where we are now, and we still don't see true democracy in the Six Counties today. But the Partitioning of Ireland in 1922 was undemocratic. Ulster has 9 Counties, and were never a separate identity or entity, so had no right to over rule the Majority of the Population on the Island. Colonisation was wrong in the Past, and is wrong today, as is the attempt by Russia on Ukraine.
@charliehunter794 Don't be making silly Statements, the Six Counties weren't an entity back in 1918. Partition was an illegal act, forced once again on the Native Irish People.
@@georgebrowne5935 yes I’m aware they weren’t an entity, however within the constituencies that would later create Northern Ireland there was overwhelming support for the Unionists who were pro partition.
@charliehunter794 Colonialism, Occupation, and Plantation of foreign British Settlers on the Island of Ireland was the Greatest Crime against Humanity and God Just look at the evidence and results of this Crime.
We need more politicians like David Ervine. I’m a Republican but I admired him a lot. They were all normal young men and women. In an abnormal situation. Caused by the British army and government 💚🇮🇪✊
Load of shite. The British army was brought over to keep the peace but republicans started attacking and killing them. Its such a pity their hands were tied by the government or they'd of taken the provos and inla out by the roots in weeks
@@RobertK1993 So were the Nationalist Party, so are Sinn Fein today, a ruling elite within their own community. 25% of the party are landlords, mostly of property in their own areas. Leaching off the people they claim to represent.
The guy claiming to be some kind of UN representative was an utter disgrace, he had no interest in hearing, or letting others hear, a Unionist perspective
Correct. The level of hubris emanating from that guy was off the charts. Supposed to be a representative of the UN? Standing there thinking he can pontificate to men the calibre of Spence and Ervine who had just helped to bring about a ceasefire. For all that fucking conjecture and show-offy citation all he had to say was we don’t believe it was a sectarian conflict? The liberal academic equivalent of a Paisleyite.
All that was needed was for the good, honest, pure-blooded Protestant, KJV-reading diligent folk of Ulster ( preferably all of the 9 counties we are still fully entitled to ) to ignore the siren call of the arch-dissenter, Paisley & his low-born, uncouth followers,.and to have stayed LOYAL & TRUE to their betters in the great UUP ! The glorious party of Craig, Andrews, & Brooke,.guarantors of the writ & will of His Majesty the King to run uncontested in His Sovereign Realm of Ulster. No Surrender. Roar on Meg. 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
The Catholic schools are not the problem, it's the sectarian British state which in law forbids a Catholic to be prime minister or head of state in that country and that is one of the main reasons why loyalists are so loyal to Britain.
Quite the reverse... the UK has no religious restrictions on it's prime minister position and NI citizens being partitioned at 4 years old by the refusal of Catholics to send their children to state schools is a major cause of the problem in NI.
@@asanulsterman1025 I was born in the north and a Catholic and despise the Catholic church, no different than fascist ethos over the years..... religion means nothing to me but feel more cultural Irish to be honest
@@jackietreehorn5561 We've talked before. I was born on the Shankill, some of my relatives were Catholic, I never understood the religious divide. As a kid all our family holidays were down south, I have many fond memories of Tramore, Dingle, Achill etc. In work (H&W) I made it a point to associate with Catholics, I was curious. One of my best workmates turned out to be a sticky, he was shot by the provos in a feud, I was invited to the funeral. I lost other friends and family too. My first vote was for the workers party. What made me begin to understand that I am not Irish is the bullshit republican blarney I heard when living in California. I started to read a little Ulster/Irish history to be able to debunk the blarney, the more I learnt the more I understood that I am Ulster-British and proud of it. I still holiday in the south, it's good crack, but it is definitely a foreign country to me and I hate the way ordinary folk blether on about UI without even a thought as to how UI is to blame for all of the deaths in my homeland. In my vision of Ulster, religion does not matter, Ulster-British and Ulster-Irish work together to make Ulster the best it can be. I believe the British multi nation culture is far superior to the Irish mono culture.
@@thejiggitygiggity90 So you don't think the NI Protocol taking away UK rights guaranteed by the 1998 Belfast Agreement will destroy the Belfast Agreement?? Don't you understand why the NI Assembly is not sitting?? Is your ignorance blissful or tactical??
@@asanulsterman1025 You really think ?, The 500 million people of the EU? the 100 million Irish citizens and Irish descendant citizens in the USA and Australia and other parts of the world, the Scottish the welsh the Cornish the Palestinians and the Irish nationalists of the 32 counties are going to put up with loyalists wrecking the place denying democracy? really? are you that Nieve???! Plus everyone has a camera now-day'. they're is cameras everywhere, the police ,the defence forces , prison guards in -formers and all that you wouldn't last 6 month's now-days!
@@ULYSSES-31 Indeed, the backstop was rejected by our sovereign parliament 3 times, then mis-sold by both Doris and Wishi leaving 2 million UK citizens finagled out of their full UK rights. It will not stand.
50:45 "Now, no nation on earth has ever forced another portion of its nation to go away..." Ummm I've got quite a few history books that beg to differ there pal Not to take away from calibre of this conference, just that particular line stuck out to me
@@stephenmckeown260 that’s not what he meant by that comment. He was talking in regards to international relations and the nation state. Not “portions” as in communities.
Borriis cut you loose and its done but theDUP and TUV iwill tell You different we are a people we are people of two islands ireland and Scotland Wales and England
Billy Hutchison suggesting that most Protestants were persecuted after Independence is total crap and unfounded. Many of them worked for British administration and left the country soon after the formation of the Free State...
@@Drifty40 Bullshit. If that were true, none of my Protestant relatives would have existed.... The reality is that the Protestant population, as a percentage of the population of what became the Irish Free State, began declining as early as 1912. The tendency of Protestant girls to marry imperial soldiers and civil servants who were transferred away from Ireland to other parts of the Empire was the main factor. The First World War did not help, while the departure of the British administration in 1922 caused a massive drop in Protestant numbers. The Wall Street Crash and the subsequent collapse of the world's economy led to a high level of emigration among the skilled working class Protestant population. The Second World War caused a huge drop in young Protestant men. The Protestant population continued to decline up to the beginning of the 1990s. It has seen a significant increase since then, and now Protestants of all denominations make up more than 5% of the Irish population.
@@spareemail2221 "...the book Buried Lives by Robin Bury"? Poorly written, badly researched, cherry-picked in terms of statistics, and basically debunked.
Get ur knowledge and take them back to Scotland we are ok look deep and i mean deep dose London England Eaton Cambridge the good and and the great and the other one the Brits planted it was ur friends
Born and bred in Northern Ireland. Only lived outside of it whilst I served 5 years in the British Army. Never once have I ever heard anyone tell me when exactly Ireland was untied prior to the plantations and the act of Union of 1800. Irish republicans today ironically base their ideology. Or parts of it on the politics of Presbyterian “planters”. The very same people the republic and republicans spent many years murdering because of their religion!
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
As a Republican I have nothing but the greatest respect for David Ervine, always one of the most progressive forward thinking unionists, he brought many militant loyalists in from the cold and into the political arena, the ceasefire and peace process could not have happened without him, he in my eyes is the Martin McGuinness of loyalism
He should have been at the head of power sharing with Republicans not Ian Paisley or Peter Robinson. Rather than condemn or demonise us he was prepared to give us a chance and listen even if he didn’t always agree. That in itself was a massive step forward
He reached out the hand of friendship to us to the point were some of his own turned on him but still remained firm in his beliefs. That is the greatest quality anyone can ever have
So called unionist leaders today are not fit to lace his boots, we would be a hell of a lot further forward if he were still here
A man of great integrity and principle. God rest him
RIP mochara
A man.taken before he finished his task.
He was the first Unionist i heard that I said to myself
That there are decent Unionist politicians after all
@@belfastblue7489 i did.
@@belfastblue7489 life,death, social engineering, social conditioning ? & ? nearly everyone sat at that table i met, on behalf of the republican community, Gusty talks about Eokra, we talked, i talked about the Mau Mau, Tyrone Brigade read up on Mau geurilla warfare tactics, we talked David did the best Gerry Adams impression i,ve ever heared, Part Four the end game, (coded wording) Gerry Adams mentioned were all insignificant, (coded wordind)we talked, life? Death?social conditioning, "the human condition"social engineering. We talked.
Regardless of your political status you have to respect this man
I’m a Catholic who Grew up in Northern all through the troubles.David Ervine in a personal hero of mine and we would not have a peace process without the contributions of these men
David Ervine was a true treasure. A giant of a human being. And he doesn't get near enough credit for the part he played in ending the violence and staring true Democracy in Northern Ireland.
David Ervine admitted Ulster Loyalists Presbyterians can be sectarian too but Ian Paisley denied to his death
I'm from Southern Ireland but I have come to highly respect all the Unionist speakers on this stage...
Especially David Ervine ... RIP
and of course Gusty Spence ...
I'm a massive Trump fan but ... the Good Friday Agreement would never have happened if not for the huge efforts of President Clinton...
Ironically they’re the most of militant of loyalists. Literally the political thinkers of the Ulster Defence Association and Ulster Volunteer Force.
And even more ironic is the fact these politicians and their predecessors were advocating for joint rule in NI in the 70s!
Billy Hutchinson murdered two innocent people
@@aligindahouse7777 no he didn’t you clown
@@mrchickenfeathers9184 He literally did time in prison for it
Im a Republican and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that David Ervine makes me sit up and take on board the hopes and aspirations of his people who are Loyalist folk, just as my folk are Republican. Most hard line Loyalists think he is "soft" , but I ask those hard liners to seriously take on board the following very important principal which has a massively greater impact for their cause and that is the fact that their long held strategy of shouting "No, never, not an inch, no surrender" has the complete opposite effect of furthering their cause. No one, and I mean no one listens to that anymore. Furthermore, decision makers in high office simply close their ears to this reteric and do not take people shouting it seriously at all. Think about it. David Ervine has a way to make his enemies sit up and listen which is extreamly important in negotiations. Believe me, he has much respect within the decision making circles, those who spout the No, Never stuff have zero respect and therefor are just not listened to.
The PUP were absolutely vital to the Good Friday Agreement. Amazing that they were by far the most progressive of the Unionist/ Loyalist parties. RIP David Ervine and Gusty Spence
Fascinating discussion to listen to some 30 years later.
The Good Friday Agreement. 25 years of relative peace. Brexit and massive changes in politics in the U.K. and ROI.
What stands out is how far we have come from these very dark days. I am impressed by the thinking then as it seems more forward looking and willing to talk than what I hear from the DUP today.
Pretty interesting to see the UDP/PUP disagreement about the aspiration of an independent northern Ireland right at the end there!
I though David Ervine was a bit abrasive in this debate but without a doubt his analysis and honesty about the history of the conflict was refreshing, sad he’s no longer with us because what Ulster Unionism is lacking is true working class representation that David brought to the table.
"By the will of the people" 1918 elections in Ireland clearly stated that a majority of the people on the island wanted Irish independence, what did the British do? they partitioned the island under threat of orange terror and created a sectarian state in the north east of Ireland.
@Jackthefilmfanatic You are right of course about the Good Friday Agreement.
We are where we are now, and we still don't see true democracy in the Six Counties today.
But the Partitioning of Ireland in 1922 was undemocratic.
Ulster has 9 Counties, and were never a separate identity or entity, so had no right to over rule the Majority of the Population on the Island.
Colonisation was wrong in the Past, and is wrong today, as is the attempt by Russia on Ukraine.
And as the 1918 election showed there was clear desire within the 6 counties to remain in the UK and therefore in support of partition.
@charliehunter794 Don't be making silly Statements, the Six Counties weren't an entity back in 1918.
Partition was an illegal act, forced once again on the Native Irish People.
@@georgebrowne5935 yes I’m aware they weren’t an entity, however within the constituencies that would later create Northern Ireland there was overwhelming support for the Unionists who were pro partition.
@charliehunter794 Colonialism, Occupation, and Plantation of foreign British Settlers on the Island of Ireland was the Greatest Crime against Humanity and God
Just look at the evidence and results of this Crime.
Respect to this man.
Missing David.
We need more politicians like David Ervine. I’m a Republican but I admired him a lot. They were all normal young men and women. In an abnormal situation. Caused by the British army and government 💚🇮🇪✊
Load of shite. The British army was brought over to keep the peace but republicans started attacking and killing them. Its such a pity their hands were tied by the government or they'd of taken the provos and inla out by the roots in weeks
Working class v working class ,
just what the ruling elite class want.
Ulster Unionist Party where the elites.
@@RobertK1993 So were the Nationalist Party, so are Sinn Fein today, a ruling elite within their own community. 25% of the party are landlords, mostly of property in their own areas. Leaching off the people they claim to represent.
Near the end .. I do believe they lost the room..... They where getting angry.. and frustrated..... ... And they where doing so well
The guy claiming to be some kind of UN representative was an utter disgrace, he had no interest in hearing, or letting others hear, a Unionist perspective
Correct. The level of hubris emanating from that guy was off the charts. Supposed to be a representative of the UN?
Standing there thinking he can pontificate to men the calibre of Spence and Ervine who had just helped to bring about a ceasefire.
For all that fucking conjecture and show-offy citation all he had to say was we don’t believe it was a sectarian conflict?
The liberal academic equivalent of a Paisleyite.
Jesus Christ it's played out mate but my mate said from rathcool Taigs are not as bitter and I don't mean that in a way of arguing
We're is old gusty the wind the wind tumble weed blow him away DAVID ERVIN great man. He is still here❤
All that was needed was for the good, honest, pure-blooded Protestant, KJV-reading diligent folk of Ulster ( preferably all of the 9 counties we are still fully entitled to ) to ignore the siren call of the arch-dissenter, Paisley & his low-born, uncouth followers,.and to have stayed LOYAL & TRUE to their betters in the great UUP ! The glorious party of Craig, Andrews, & Brooke,.guarantors of the writ & will of His Majesty the King to run uncontested in His Sovereign Realm of Ulster. No Surrender. Roar on Meg. 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Any Nationalists there?
No not on the panel as its about the loyalist ceasefire
The Catholic schools are not the problem, it's the sectarian British state which in law forbids a Catholic to be prime minister or head of state in that country and that is one of the main reasons why loyalists are so loyal to Britain.
Quite the reverse... the UK has no religious restrictions on it's prime minister position and NI citizens being partitioned at 4 years old by the refusal of Catholics to send their children to state schools is a major cause of the problem in NI.
@@asanulsterman1025 I was born in the north and a Catholic and despise the Catholic church, no different than fascist ethos over the years..... religion means nothing to me but feel more cultural Irish to be honest
@@jackietreehorn5561 We've talked before. I was born on the Shankill, some of my relatives were Catholic, I never understood the religious divide. As a kid all our family holidays were down south, I have many fond memories of Tramore, Dingle, Achill etc. In work (H&W) I made it a point to associate with Catholics, I was curious. One of my best workmates turned out to be a sticky, he was shot by the provos in a feud, I was invited to the funeral. I lost other friends and family too. My first vote was for the workers party. What made me begin to understand that I am not Irish is the bullshit republican blarney I heard when living in California. I started to read a little Ulster/Irish history to be able to debunk the blarney, the more I learnt the more I understood that I am Ulster-British and proud of it. I still holiday in the south, it's good crack, but it is definitely a foreign country to me and I hate the way ordinary folk blether on about UI without even a thought as to how UI is to blame for all of the deaths in my homeland.
In my vision of Ulster, religion does not matter, Ulster-British and Ulster-Irish work together to make Ulster the best it can be. I believe the British multi nation culture is far superior to the Irish mono culture.
These people no longer have a voice
How much money did Irish Americans actually give to the IRA?
They and ghadaffi together funded the ira for the entire campaign pretty much
There was knowboddy fighting you david as a protestant
And he new it❤
Quis separarbit 🇬🇧🏴🇬🇧
It is a real pity that the EU and it's NI Protocol has destroyed the framework for peace... it's only a matter of time before it all kicks off again.
nonsense
@@thejiggitygiggity90 So you don't think the NI Protocol taking away UK rights guaranteed by the 1998 Belfast Agreement will destroy the Belfast Agreement?? Don't you understand why the NI Assembly is not sitting?? Is your ignorance blissful or tactical??
@@asanulsterman1025 You really think ?, The 500 million people of the EU? the 100 million Irish citizens and Irish descendant citizens in the USA and Australia and other parts of the world, the Scottish the welsh the Cornish the Palestinians and the Irish nationalists of the 32 counties are going to put up with loyalists wrecking the place denying democracy? really? are you that Nieve???! Plus everyone has a camera now-day'. they're is cameras everywhere, the police ,the defence forces , prison guards in -formers and all that you wouldn't last 6 month's now-days!
@@asanulsterman1025 Your sovereign parliament overwhelmingly voted in favour of the Windsor Framework. That's how British democracy works.
@@ULYSSES-31 Indeed, the backstop was rejected by our sovereign parliament 3 times, then mis-sold by both Doris and Wishi leaving 2 million UK citizens finagled out of their full UK rights. It will not stand.
50:45 "Now, no nation on earth has ever forced another portion of its nation to go away..."
Ummm I've got quite a few history books that beg to differ there pal
Not to take away from calibre of this conference, just that particular line stuck out to me
Including Theirs, and their opposites.
Okay, give an example then if your books (which you most likely haven’t even opened) say.
@@dan-860 ever heard of a little party known as the Nazis?
@@stephenmckeown260 that’s not what he meant by that comment. He was talking in regards to international relations and the nation state. Not “portions” as in communities.
@@dan-860 read the quote again for me Dan
21:55
Hes the gerry the prods did not have great man❤
Borriis cut you loose and its done but theDUP and TUV iwill tell You different we are a people we are people of two islands ireland and Scotland Wales and England
If u wont to be British fill ur Boots i wont to be irsh if somebody wonts to be muslim if somebody wonts to be Jew well its Ireland
Billy Hutchison suggesting that most Protestants were persecuted after Independence is total crap and unfounded. Many of them worked for British administration and left the country soon after the formation of the Free State...
Google.....
40,000 Protestants Forced Out Of Ireland in four years after partion !
🤡
@@Drifty40 They left because they couldnt stomach the Country being free from British rule and oppression after the war of independence in 1922.FACT
@@conorledwith530
They were forced out.
Search it for yourself 🤡
@@Drifty40
Bullshit.
If that were true, none of my Protestant relatives would have existed....
The reality is that the Protestant population, as a percentage of the population of what became the Irish Free State, began declining as early as 1912. The tendency of Protestant girls to marry imperial soldiers and civil servants who were transferred away from Ireland to other parts of the Empire was the main factor.
The First World War did not help, while the departure of the British administration in 1922 caused a massive drop in Protestant numbers.
The Wall Street Crash and the subsequent collapse of the world's economy led to a high level of emigration among the skilled working class Protestant population.
The Second World War caused a huge drop in young Protestant men.
The Protestant population continued to decline up to the beginning of the 1990s. It has seen a significant increase since then, and now Protestants of all denominations make up more than 5% of the Irish population.
@@spareemail2221
"...the book Buried Lives by Robin Bury"?
Poorly written, badly researched, cherry-picked in terms of statistics, and basically debunked.
🇮🇪👍💕🥰🙏🙏
Smoke and shadows....
Get ur knowledge and take them back to Scotland we are ok look deep and i mean deep dose London England Eaton Cambridge the good and and the great and the other one the Brits planted it was ur friends
Born and bred in Northern Ireland. Only lived outside of it whilst I served 5 years in the British Army.
Never once have I ever heard anyone tell me when exactly Ireland was untied prior to the plantations and the act of Union of 1800.
Irish republicans today ironically base their ideology. Or parts of it on the politics of Presbyterian “planters”. The very same people the republic and republicans spent many years murdering because of their religion!
Bollocks
@@aligindahouse7777 how is that bollocks you fucking flid
I don't think you understand republicanism very well..
@@Sean-sn9ld what part don’t I understand Sean?
It was United culturally before Ulster Plantation 1609 and 1169 Anglo Norman Invasion.