Shimano EP8 or Bosch P-CX - which is stronger?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- There have been conflicting reports on how powerfull the Shimano EP8 motor really is. We've finally gotten our hands on a production unit and we're putting it up against the Bosch Performance CX gen 4 (85Nm) ebike motor.
For more info and details on the EP8, check out our EP8 review • Shimano EP8 review - T...
#Bosch #Shimano #ebikeMotor 
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Thank you so much. This is exactly the sort of testing I wanted to find! I have the Bosch already but would not hesitate to buy EP8 if I were getting a new bike. I can't wait for the point where bikes have swappable motors!
Nice review as always.
Great test to help all understand the characteristics and ultimate performance of the motors. What I'd also really like to see is efficiency tests, the only time I use Boost mode is when my legs have given up, if one motor used 20% less battery in combined Eco and Trail mode (or equivalent), it would be the easy choice for me!
The new Bosch firmware which delivers Tour+ or Magic Tour mode can deliver around 120KM's on a 625W Battery and even further on Eco around 171KM's based on a 90KG weight and MTB tyres etc.
more testing like this! very well done thanks
I did some googling and the peak output is 100 watts higher on the Bosch, 600watts vs 500watts on the EP8. In lower power situations the EP8 probably feels more powerful because of the 400% amplification vs 340% on the Bosch but when you’re powering hard up a hill the Bosch will have a higher maximum output. You’d have to put in 176watts to get the full 600 from the Bosch and you’d only have to put in 125watts to get the full 500 from the EP8 so essentially, if you’re a casual rider, the EP8 is probably a better choice but if you’re a speed freak and you climb every hill standing up and cranking on the pedals, then the Bosch will be faster overall. That’s probably why Rob Rides EMTB got the result that he did because he was pushing as hard as he could. I think the motor shouldn’t be the ultimate deciding factor. Pick the bike that you like the most. I am thinking about buying the Commencal Meta Power SX Race with the EP8.
In hill Climb tests The Bosch wins here: ruclips.net/video/M9xnw_vOla8/видео.html
The suspension is what makes my 22 Canyon CF8 really work on the rock covered trails here, the EP8 motor has conquered every climb so far easily in trail/medium mode. Power is not the issue. I almost never need boost mode.
Hill climb contests, can depend on the rider, on a particular run up a hill, small errors may happen.
Most ride these e bikes for pure fun, a second or 2 difference doesnt matter.
Excellent review and just what I was looking for. I really appreciated your opinion at the end about what motor works best in the real world rather than just in a single particular test. I pick up my EP8 motored eMTB (Merida eOne Sixty) in a fortnight. As for the motor noise - after 20 years of riding analogue mtb’s I’m desensitised to bike noise on the trails & don’t expect it to be a worry for me at all.
The E One Sixty is a great bike..!
Well done! Thanks
Well worth doing this test, the Bosch is a well established motor now, while ep8 is new, and I definitely wouldn’t say no to ep8. However, I looked at Canyon Spectral on & the steps 8000 motor was a definite negative to me. Long story short, after 6 months of research my new Whyte e150s 29er is on its way, & the motor was just one of the positives that helped me choose this bike.
good analysis, but you did not mention the "feeling": I read that the new Shimano is getting closer to the feeling of a natural riding, and also over 25km/h the disengagement is very soft. Ok these feelings are hard to measure in a scientific way but can be mentioned as well...
Another point, friction of pedals when engine is off (battery run-out situations) I've read that EP8 is best-in-class: is it something you can confirm?
In real life off road situations it is not just how much power at what rpm but also how fast they engage. For example in a recent test at a shop I thought the Bosch on a Trek I rode engaged quicker than a Specialized with the Brose motor. I am buying the Trek for that very reason as I envision it getting me out of trouble in precarious positions faster. Didn't get to try the Shimano that day but my friend has the 8000 and it seems good but not as powerful.
Enjoyed the commentary. For me it’s the EP8, it gives more tuning options to suit my riding style. Bosch is one size fits all.
The Bosch can be tuned with Custom Modes now as per the Rider with the new Nyon Display
Interesting. Good test. I wonder if the lower temp the ep8 , compared to the e8000, will substantially increase the lifespan of the bearings and tourque sensor? I'd prefer the low cadence power of the ep8 for tech climbing but the cx is close enough and has many other advantages(proven durability, serviceability, extended boost feature). If the ep8 proves its durability its back in the running for me. If its durable i czn live with a rattle
I rode them and I like both I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a bike with either system. If I have to pick I’d choose EP8 because of the display and the app, the user updatable firmware. But I’m still rocking my E8000 Commencal Meta Power 😃
I love mine E8000 I think it feels very natural in trail. I wonder how the Boch feels🤗. Sadly Rob seems a bit brose specialized fan boy. Great test 👏👏
Cool research and results! Thank You!
How did you measure rider input on EP8? I thought that data is not available, and I would really like to have that on mine, measuring my own watts on long uphills
Thannks. We haven't found a tool to take that data from the motor, so we used power meter pedals. It's road bike pedals, so nothing we would use for regular riding. Now the Garmin XC100 is available, which is an spd-pedal for mtb.
@@EMTBVideos Thanks! Yea, I actually have Garmin Vector 3S :) Would be super nice to get rider input directly from EP8 - that would save a bit of money. Maybe a firmware update... fingers crossed.
Hi very interesting video thx! A French journalist Chris Caprin noticed that the motors are delivering their full strength after several hundred of km. Are you agree with this?
great video but just a thought to consider the bosch has had an update wait till shaman release there firmware update i pretty sure more power will be on its way
It would be interesting seeing the same kind of test with the new Bosch smart system since you can change the behavior now via the Flow app 🤔
What would be the difference between the E8000 and EP8?
I have "only" the E8000 and the PW-X/PW-SE, and the E8000 is definitly the more "sporty" motor. It doesn´t have so much power throug and throug, but with higher cadence, it feels more supportive (80 - 100 +). I like it more than the Yamaha (but maybe also, because the motor feels more natural - the Yamaha feels "cogy").
To explain it. When I´m riding up a steep hill, I want to pedal a bit harder and faster (more analog to the terrain I ride).
With the EP8000 I can do that, it just feels like I have more power in the legs. But I have to keep the cadence up.
With the Yamaha its more efficient (not on the battery) to change in a harder gear, and lower my cadance a bit.
So I wonder, would the EP8 or the Bosh Gen4 be the better motor, if I want a "natural" feeling. Or is the EP8 just like the E8000 but slightly better?
Max power would be pretty uninteresting, becaus there would be rarely the situation I would need it (I ride in eco or over the 25kmh limit most of the time - im pretty fit :-P)
I like the test too but would have liked to have a better understanding of the gear ratios to size of tire. E.g. 36t front divided by 16t rear times circumference of rear tire (27.5x3.14) shows inches traveled per revolution. Multiply that by avg rpm. Should equal distance traveled. Thus, a 29 inch will travel further given the same gear ratios but a little harder to push.
What would be great is if you could do this test to all of the motors.
I have a Rocky Mountain Altitude and i love it and often come across other ebikes and easily over take them.
I know you dont really like them but would definitely be good to see how they stack up.
@@EMTBVideos I read the big review E-MOUNTAINBIKE Print did that included the 2019 Altitude powerplay C90 which didnt looks to favorably at it.
One thing having a 50 tooth sproket is so useful which enables to to climb up some steep stuff. At that point the C90 was only running a xtr 11 speed.
2020 Rockys haven't really changed apart from the components.
@@SP-ss4uo RM Altitude will be given the powerplay treatment in late 2021.
@@thecount1001 they already have a Altitude powerplay and thw 2021s are out already. Maybe update to a 29er for 2022
@@SP-ss4uo the new Altitude.
@@thecount1001 that would be cool.
I hadn't heard that yet how did you find out?
I hope you can get your feets on the Polini 90nm
From where came that huge difference in Rob shootout?
Every motor has the optimal cadence where works better, is known that bosch has that output around 80rpm, doesn't mean is weaker...in all the tests where has been used, the last is from embn ep8 on a technical climb on 6 try run was just 4/5 seconds faster than his predecessor and 5 seconds slower than brose, so the facts are that ep8 is weaker.. but that's not a tragedy improvements thru firmware will be introduced for sure in the future.
Are mounts the same, could I swap the EP8 with Bosch and visa versa?
Nope
Interesting. Within 1-2 weeks I should receive a 2021 Husqvarna HardCross 8 with EP8. Currently I ride a KTM Machina eMTB hardtail (derestricted for offroad) with Bosch Gen 2 PCX and I'm not that happy with it. On technical climbs, the assist kicks in way too late. Also very annoying when riding in sand, starting from standstill. Also, when I ride on the beach or in very wet conditions (crossing large puddles with water) the Bosch goes berserk. Clearly electrical issues. I even changed from Intuvia to Purion for this, but it's the battery system. Currently I put some contact spray on the battery contacts, it helps, but the problem still occurs occasionally. Fingers crossed for the Husqvarna, I feel the battery cover design is better since it fits over the mounting hole for the battery. Bosch bike often (like my KTM) have the battery fitted with a battery cover that equals the height of the frame when fitted ( more prone to water getting in since the battery nor the mounting hole is fitted with rubber o-rings )
@@ilidiofaria I'll do my best, I have a few cracked ribs since last week, but by then I'll hopefully be able to ride on a fully.
@@ilidiofaria delivery date is 23/12 now, fingers crossed it doesn't get postponed.
@@ilidiofaria fingers crossed :)
@westiracer Yes, for slow technical climbs it's way better with the ep8 compared to my KTM with Bosch. My front tire is about to get swapped with a Magic Mary, somehow I managed to damage the inner structure of the DHF. It looks like my rimm is bent now, but it's the tire. And the Shimano brakes I still don't like. After beeing covered with mud and cleaning them, they always squeal en get stuck pistons. So HOPE brakes have been ordered already. Other than that, great bike. It's one bike does it all for me.
@westiracer it's 25 km/h by default. But you can unlock it to USA region without a chip, then it assists up to 32 km/h, you only need to have a bike with shimano bluetooth display. I'm convined the new Bosh gen 4 will have more power. Compared to the Bosh gen 2, it's not far off. But the ep8 modes can be customized, that's an advantage for sure for the ep8
The real question is which one is more reliable? My money is on Bosch
A precise test would be placing the bike on a direct drive trainer, install a power meter on the cranks and with data from power on the trainer as well as power and cadence on the cranks it would be easy to obating assist amplification values, torque and power delivered by the motor at each cadence and at each assist level.
What about the Bosch motor rattle/noise??!
They've both got a bit of that rattling.
there are so many new motors on the horizon that these comparison tests will go on for many years . at eurobike 2019 there were two or more new german motors , an italian motor , french motors etc etc.
i suspect that the most powerful motor issue will become of lesser importance and the most reliable ones will take over the market .
Kind of like toyota in its early introduction into the US . the motors were puny compared to american trucks but soon they began to dominate the market due to extreme reliability .
@@EMTBVideos i recently ordered a Nox E MTB with the new Sachs rs motor . Nox is nothing special but i wanted this new motor because of three tests rides i did . i usually don't go for un tested new products , so i'm taking a chance . Their web site is very interesting there is a tech and history page narrated by one of the owners of the company . you might find it interesting . Sachsmicromobility.com
So the rattle is much worse in EP8 right? CX rattle as well
Some people claim the EP8 is worse. I'm not hearing that, they are quite similar. If I had to pick one, I'd say the EP8 perhaps is better.
the differences between these motors is negligible . go for the one that has the least problems and fret not if you get passed on a hill , you will pass that guy near the top when his motor shuts down. 😂
In lower cadence the Bosch Motor when climbing will sense if you are stuck on a rock etc and boost power for a split second and help you regain cadence so you don't stall. This is a very handy feature that has helped me many times. A nice feature that often get's overlooked. EP8 or Bosch I don't think you can go wrong. We do know the Bosch motor has proved itself over and over and the new firmware just released delivers increased range, up to 170KM's in Eco Mode (90KG Weight MTB Bike)
Range Info worth noting: The new Bosch firmware which delivers Tour+ or Magic Tour mode can deliver around 120KM's on a 625W Battery and even further on Eco around 171KM's based on a 90KG weight and MTB tyres etc. In EMTB mode which is more powerful range is around 96KM's and 86KM's in Turbo
I go for the bosch - hands down
Easy, the answer is Yamaha PW-X2 😁
talar du inte svänskä?
In the EMBN Hill Climb Test the Bosch motor was the fastest and confirms the theory of more power in lower cadence for the EP8 but the Bosch pulled up the hill quite a bit faster from mid range and up which is as you say. ruclips.net/video/M9xnw_vOla8/видео.html
EP8 rattlesnake !!! Horror
BOTTOM LINE: BOSCH is better then SHITMANO
BOSCH FOR ME, THX,