To find out more information about Hazen Foss & William Foy read our extended article on our website. www.lineagejourney.com/episodes-season-2/hazen-foss-and-william-foy-faithful-and-unfaithful/.
Your ministry has been a tremendous blessing to us in Jamaica. We love the work God is using you all to do by bringing the word to life. We showed this video in Bible Class. It was very resourceful in helping us understand, "Have we have lost our Identity?" May God continue to bless you all as you continue to work for Him. 1 Corinthians 15:58
What an excellent video! As a 4th generation SDA I have never heard of William Foy, we truly need to understand our history to know our mission! Greetings from Costa Rica
Today, an elderly woman I met at church told me about these two men. After all she told me I had to look for more. I was pleasantly surprised that you did a video on them and recently too! Thank you and God bless~
Prayers for all who work in your Ministry, your families & all the listeners. Y’all are doing great work for our Creator and I’m grateful for the continued learning & growing in Christ. God Bless you all 🙏🏼🤍
😢i feel pain when I watched this, I'm an Adventist youth we were call recently in one of the small town to go and safe the society by preaching to them since there is no one committed there, I don't want to delay please pray for me😢
@LineageJourney Thank you for your dedication. This subject of these men can be a hard pill to swallow, except we must first believe that EG White is a prophet of the Lord. It can be discouraging when i read some comments of these unbelievers and others that are called trolls. Im still learning, studing and praying for guidance and grace from God. I want to know more, so much more! But i notice the article you had on your website is no longer there. 😢
The fact that these 2 men (Foy and Foss) were both called to the prophetic ministry supports the supernatural experiences of Ellen White. However, l am unsure that Foss seemed to have committed what we know as "the unpardonable sin"--manifesting no interest in spiritual things subsequent to his rejection. Many godly men turned away from their divine calling at first (Jonah specifically--Jonah 1:3). If Hazen Foss was no longer interested in spiritual issues, then it was *his* doing, and not the doing of the Holy Spirit. He expressed his regret to EGW, and encouraged her. As far as William Foy was concerned, l believe he also had initial struggles, but later revealed what he had seen through his sermonizing and a little pamphlet he had printed-- CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE AND VIEWS. But not long after, he faded from the limelight. My question is, Was he faithful to the end? Could he say like Paul, "l have FINISHED my course" (2 Timothy 4:7)? 1. EGW found it "queer" that she could not find any of his writings (MS 17, p. 96), stating, "l do not know what became of him" (ibid). Aren't "the spirits of the prophets...subject to the prophets" or to each other" (1 Corinthians 14:32)? In ancient history, when God sought to raise up a revival, the inspired men and women worked together (Elijah & Elisha, Ezra & Nehemiah--Nehemiah 8, Paul & Luke etc.). 2. When Mrs. White was speaking, Foy "jumped" up and said "it was just as he had seen" (MS ibid). Then why was there need for the vision to be repeated if he had done exactly as the Lord bade him in the first place? 3. His fourth "vision's content is unknown" (ibid 96/CRUCIAL MOMENTS p.18). Why? if the angel told him to reveal it? Was not the vision necessary for God's people? 4. Foy and Foss both died the same year--1893. Coincidence? It was as if Divine Providence "killed" two birds with one stone.
“I was disobedient, settling upon this point for an excuse, that my guide did not command me so to do; and I thereby, brought darkness, and death, upon my soul. But I could find no peace or comfort.” "....was at first exceedingly unwilling so to do” because “the message was so different-and the manner in which the command was given, so different from any I had ever heard of, and knowing the prejudice against those of my color, it became very crossing.” "Seventh-day Adventists have generally acknowledged that God first chose a black man to be a prophet, followed by Hazen Foss, and finally Ellen Harmon. However, Foy, along with Foss, would became tragic figures in a cautionary tale repeated ad nauseum for the fate of those who reject God’s call: as Loughborough put it, Foy “finally became exalted over the revelation, and thus lost his simplicity, hence the manifestation of this gift to him ceased, and soon after he sickened and died.”76 Foy and Foss have often been confused and conflated, enhancing the poignancy of the narrative that God moved on from these failed men to “the weakest of the weak,” the teenaged girl, Ellen Harmon, who went on to become the unrivaled prophet of the Advent movement." I'm not sure what is meant by 2:15-2:35 because as I recall learning, William Foy did not complete his mission. It is implied that his "gift" was passed to Hazen Foss, then Ellen White which likely indicates more than we'd think. While there are accounts of prophetic messages being offered contemporaneously by different prophets and messengers of God, I do not recall any, specifically where the same message, the same visions were taken from one and given to another, before the era of the Great Disappointment. I could be mistaken. The anointing of The Holy Spirit upon David and like occurences are the only examples I recall of such a transfer by The Spirit Of God Himself. Besides, we are hard pressed to find a prophet in The Bible that is not Shemetic genetically. I could be mistaken. Christ did open up the gospel to the Gentiles and said that the rocks would cry out if his message was not spread throughout all the world. It is possible that Foy was of Shemetic, particularly Hebrew descent and the message was first given to him and his rejection, similar to Saul rejecting God, caused the visions to be passed on to another, Gentile vessel. The fact that Ellen White was called "the weakest of the weak" in receiving the gift of prophecy implies something beyond her illness and injury. All in all, there is a seeming correlation with God's displacement of Israel as a chosen people and nation in favor of spirtual Israel, with God's displacement of William Foy as His end time prophet in favor of Hazen Foss and then Ellen White. John The Bapist ushered in and prepared the way for Christ and His message. Is it possible that if Foy did have a message for a "specific time" that it was to usher in the prophetic messages of Ellen White? It would not seem plausible given a number of factors and based on Foy's statements, it would seem that Foy indeed did not complete his work.
The thought came to me after watching this that there is great significance still to Hazen Foss even though he was unfaithful. A person who rejects Ellen White may try to use Matthew 24:26 (Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.) as an excuse because her first vision was in a small room with only a few people. That's why I reject Mohammed and Joseph Smith. They both claimed to have had their experiences in isolated environments. However Foss' story gives us an independent confirmation which fulfills Matthew 18:20 (For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”).
Your criteria for judging visions is not rational nor biblical. John the Revelator received the Revelation while isolated on the isle of Patmos. Muhammad and Joseph Smith were false prophets but not because of where they claimed to received their visions but because of the ungodly content of them.
@@thenowchurch6419 Actually, I believe what Mr. Les says does have some merit. Of course it's true that many Biblical prophets have had "isolated" visions or manifestations, like Abraham or Moses in the very beginning (John doesn't count, since it was already known he was with Christ). But their setting was very different. In modern times, we are all warned of false prophets. An isolated vision from someone who never experienced any visions before, and now telling he has a vision, should raise some red flags. Especially if he plays with the occult, as was the case with Joseph Smith. That's why it was different with Ellen White, and also with William Foy (not sure about Hazen Foss). They have been seen in such states. And only later when it was established that Ellen White is a true prophet, she began having less public visions, and more private ones, especially dreams.
@@MrAdik861 I have to respectfully disagree. Jacob had his Ladder vision alone, Ezekiel had several visions alone, Daniel had dreams, Joseph had dreams. The argument that you and Les propose just does not hold any water. These matters are judged by their content and their fruit not whether they were in public or not. BTW Ellen White made several false statements and serious contradictions and is therefore certainly not a true prophet. She said God showed her that Christ would return within the lifetime of some of her hearers.
@@thenowchurch6419 It does hold water, as I explained earlier. These were different circumstances, and the Christian era is a different circumstance. Though it's true that we need to judge prophets first and foremost by their content. Ellen White was a true prophet and none of her visions were false. The visions of Christ returning during her lifetime or the lifetime of those around her were also true. The problem was that the church did not accept the 1888 message faithfully. If it had, all that Ellen White had predicted would have come true. But because the church did not show itself to be ready around 1888, then Ellen White and all pioneers had to die, and now we are today, and it's up to us as a church to get ready for Christ's return.
“The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him” - Jer. 28:9. Meaning; if their word doesnt come to pass then God DIDNT send them. God did not send White, so who did?
Deut 18: 20-22 “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak…even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which theLORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: though shalt not be afraid of (follow) him.” If the LORD did not send these prophets, who did? According to scripture, the Adventists are not of God but of the Deceiver.
I must be a lot worse than Foss then. But i guess this short retelling doesnt enlighten us as to every facet of Foss' thinking and spiritual journey leading him up to and beyond that "shrinking back moment". Ellen White herself sbrunk back. Peter shrank back. Many heroes of faith shrank back.
With all due respect, neither of those men's lives reflect well on the Seventh Day Adventist church and it's doctrines. If William Foy was faithful to God and even personally met Ellen White, then why did he never accept the Sabbath and join the S.D.A. church ? They were hearing from the same God right ? As for Hazen Foss, his story does not add up. If he was remorseful enough to tell Ellen White to do her prophetic duty, then was he really lost ? Does ignoring and losing the prophetic gift mean that one has been cast out from salvation ? If he was such a castaway, he would not have cared, if Ellen White was faithful or not. I am inclined to believe that the encounter Ellen White described simply never happened. We do know that Foss never pursued the Christian life again. The whole affair casts a dark blot on the character of God and makes no logical sense.
He's (Foss) not lost but afterward he don't give any interest of spiritual life....he actually not lost but he thought he was lost...and I believe if he comes to God, God will give him another chance
@@ClayOfTheMaster Did you not watch the video? It also says that Foss asked Ellen White to be faithful to the calling. It does not add up does it? Ellen White made up the story.
😢i feel pain when I watched this, I'm an Adventist youth we were call recently in one of the small town to go and safe the society by preaching to them since there is no one committed there, I don't want to delay please pray for me😢
To find out more information about Hazen Foss & William Foy read our extended article on our website.
www.lineagejourney.com/episodes-season-2/hazen-foss-and-william-foy-faithful-and-unfaithful/.
Id love to join your ministry
Your ministry has been a tremendous blessing to us in Jamaica. We love the work God is using you all to do by bringing the word to life. We showed this video in Bible Class. It was very resourceful in helping us understand, "Have we have lost our Identity?" May God continue to bless you all as you continue to work for Him. 1 Corinthians 15:58
What an excellent video! As a 4th generation SDA I have never heard of William Foy, we truly need to understand our history to know our mission! Greetings from Costa Rica
Amen
Powerful. May God help us to surrender to His will even if it goes against our personal feelings.
Today, an elderly woman I met at church told me about these two men. After all she told me I had to look for more. I was pleasantly surprised that you did a video on them and recently too! Thank you and God bless~
Praise God! Thank you kindly for your support :).
Solemn! May God find us faithful. May God continue using you Bro. Ramdin...
Praise God! Thanks for the support!
Cannot disappoint the working of the Holy Spirit.
This one had me in tears
I’m so glad I found your channel on RUclips. Great videos! May the Lord bless you !
Prayers for all who work in your Ministry, your families & all the listeners. Y’all are doing great work for our Creator and I’m grateful for the continued learning & growing in Christ. God Bless you all 🙏🏼🤍
😢i feel pain when I watched this, I'm an Adventist youth we were call recently in one of the small town to go and safe the society by preaching to them since there is no one committed there, I don't want to delay please pray for me😢
@LineageJourney Thank you for your dedication.
This subject of these men can be a hard pill to swallow, except we must first believe that EG White is a prophet of the Lord. It can be discouraging when i read some comments of these unbelievers and others that are called trolls.
Im still learning, studing and praying for guidance and grace from God.
I want to know more, so much more! But i notice the article you had on your website is no longer there. 😢
Great videos my brother. They are very informative and enlightening. May God continue to bless you and your team.
Thank you Adam! Hope Mr Coutet is doing well! Thank you for the Great and Treasure filled documetaries! Bro Martin S Louis
Thank you bro for your info
Thank you for sharing this!
The fact that these 2 men (Foy and Foss) were both called to the prophetic ministry supports the supernatural experiences of Ellen White. However, l am unsure that Foss seemed to have committed what we know as "the unpardonable sin"--manifesting no interest in spiritual things subsequent to his rejection. Many godly men turned away from their divine calling at first (Jonah specifically--Jonah 1:3). If Hazen Foss was no longer interested in spiritual issues, then it was *his* doing, and not the doing of the Holy Spirit. He expressed his regret to EGW, and encouraged her.
As far as William Foy was concerned, l believe he also had initial struggles, but later revealed what he had seen through his sermonizing and a little pamphlet he had printed-- CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE AND VIEWS. But not long after, he faded from the limelight. My question is, Was he faithful to the end? Could he say like Paul, "l have FINISHED my course" (2 Timothy 4:7)?
1. EGW found it "queer" that she could not find any of his writings (MS 17, p. 96), stating, "l do not know what became of him" (ibid). Aren't "the spirits of the prophets...subject to the prophets" or to each other" (1 Corinthians 14:32)? In ancient history, when God sought to raise up a revival, the inspired men and women worked together (Elijah & Elisha, Ezra & Nehemiah--Nehemiah 8, Paul & Luke etc.).
2. When Mrs. White was speaking, Foy "jumped" up and said "it was just as he had seen" (MS ibid). Then why was there need for the vision to be repeated if he had done exactly as the Lord bade him in the first place?
3. His fourth "vision's content is unknown" (ibid 96/CRUCIAL MOMENTS p.18). Why? if the angel told him to reveal it? Was not the vision necessary for God's people?
4. Foy and Foss both died the same year--1893. Coincidence? It was as if Divine Providence "killed" two birds with one stone.
“I was disobedient, settling upon this point for an excuse, that my guide did not command me so to do; and I thereby, brought darkness, and death, upon my soul. But I could find no peace or comfort.”
"....was at first exceedingly unwilling so to do” because “the message was so different-and the manner in which the command was given, so different from any I had ever heard of, and knowing the prejudice against those of my color, it became very crossing.”
"Seventh-day Adventists have generally acknowledged that God first chose a black man to be a prophet, followed by Hazen Foss, and finally Ellen Harmon. However, Foy, along with Foss, would became tragic figures in a cautionary tale repeated ad nauseum for the fate of those who reject God’s call: as Loughborough put it, Foy “finally became exalted over the revelation, and thus lost his simplicity, hence the manifestation of this gift to him ceased, and soon after he sickened and died.”76 Foy and Foss have often been confused and conflated, enhancing the poignancy of the narrative that God moved on from these failed men to “the weakest of the weak,” the teenaged girl, Ellen Harmon, who went on to become the unrivaled prophet of the Advent movement."
I'm not sure what is meant by 2:15-2:35 because as I recall learning, William Foy did not complete his mission. It is implied that his "gift" was passed to Hazen Foss, then Ellen White which likely indicates more than we'd think.
While there are accounts of prophetic messages being offered contemporaneously by different prophets and messengers of God, I do not recall any, specifically where the same message, the same visions were taken from one and given to another, before the era of the Great Disappointment. I could be mistaken. The anointing of The Holy Spirit upon David and like occurences are the only examples I recall of such a transfer by The Spirit Of God Himself.
Besides, we are hard pressed to find a prophet in The Bible that is not Shemetic genetically. I could be mistaken. Christ did open up the gospel to the Gentiles and said that the rocks would cry out if his message was not spread throughout all the world.
It is possible that Foy was of Shemetic, particularly Hebrew descent and the message was first given to him and his rejection, similar to Saul rejecting God, caused the visions to be passed on to another, Gentile vessel.
The fact that Ellen White was called "the weakest of the weak" in receiving the gift of prophecy implies something beyond her illness and injury.
All in all, there is a seeming correlation with God's displacement of Israel as a chosen people and nation in favor of spirtual Israel, with God's displacement of William Foy as His end time prophet in favor of Hazen Foss and then Ellen White.
John The Bapist ushered in and prepared the way for Christ and His message. Is it possible that if Foy did have a message for a "specific time" that it was to usher in the prophetic messages of Ellen White? It would not seem plausible given a number of factors and based on Foy's statements, it would seem that Foy indeed did not complete his work.
WOW
I'm hoping to join your ministry...
In what capacity do you want to help? 😁
by doing any task that you want me to do to help the ministry...
Ian Ralph Gigante what do you do currently? And where are you based?
@@NutingMedia Ooooh! (tears) God bless you!
The thought came to me after watching this that there is great significance still to Hazen Foss even though he was unfaithful. A person who rejects Ellen White may try to use Matthew 24:26 (Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.) as an excuse because her first vision was in a small room with only a few people. That's why I reject Mohammed and Joseph Smith. They both claimed to have had their experiences in isolated environments. However Foss' story gives us an independent confirmation which fulfills Matthew 18:20 (For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”).
Your criteria for judging visions is not rational nor biblical.
John the Revelator received the Revelation while isolated on the isle of Patmos.
Muhammad and Joseph Smith were false prophets but not because of where they claimed to received their visions but because of the
ungodly content of them.
@@thenowchurch6419 Actually, I believe what Mr. Les says does have some merit. Of course it's true that many Biblical prophets have had "isolated" visions or manifestations, like Abraham or Moses in the very beginning (John doesn't count, since it was already known he was with Christ). But their setting was very different. In modern times, we are all warned of false prophets. An isolated vision from someone who never experienced any visions before, and now telling he has a vision, should raise some red flags. Especially if he plays with the occult, as was the case with Joseph Smith. That's why it was different with Ellen White, and also with William Foy (not sure about Hazen Foss). They have been seen in such states. And only later when it was established that Ellen White is a true prophet, she began having less public visions, and more private ones, especially dreams.
@@MrAdik861 I have to respectfully disagree.
Jacob had his Ladder vision alone, Ezekiel had several visions alone, Daniel had dreams,
Joseph had dreams.
The argument that you and Les propose just does not hold any water.
These matters are judged by their content and their fruit not whether they were in public or not.
BTW Ellen White made several false statements and serious contradictions and is therefore certainly not a true prophet.
She said God showed her that Christ would return within the lifetime of some of her hearers.
@@thenowchurch6419 It does hold water, as I explained earlier. These were different circumstances, and the Christian era is a different circumstance. Though it's true that we need to judge prophets first and foremost by their content.
Ellen White was a true prophet and none of her visions were false. The visions of Christ returning during her lifetime or the lifetime of those around her were also true. The problem was that the church did not accept the 1888 message faithfully. If it had, all that Ellen White had predicted would have come true. But because the church did not show itself to be ready around 1888, then Ellen White and all pioneers had to die, and now we are today, and it's up to us as a church to get ready for Christ's return.
@@MrAdik861 So your position is that the return of Christ is not a set appointed time but depends on the SDA church to happen?
“The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him” - Jer. 28:9.
Meaning; if their word doesnt come to pass then God DIDNT send them.
God did not send White, so who did?
Deut 18: 20-22 “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak…even that prophet shall die.
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which theLORD hath not spoken?
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: though shalt not be afraid of (follow) him.”
If the LORD did not send these prophets, who did?
According to scripture, the Adventists are not of God but of the Deceiver.
I must be a lot worse than Foss then. But i guess this short retelling doesnt enlighten us as to every facet of Foss' thinking and spiritual journey leading him up to and beyond that "shrinking back moment". Ellen White herself sbrunk back. Peter shrank back. Many heroes of faith shrank back.
No one "shrink back" like Jonah. I somehow feel that some parts of the story of thes 2 men (Foy & Foss) have been omitted.
William Foy...Rejected God
Hazen Foss...Rejected God
Ellen White...accepts the calling
2/3rds cut off
1/3rd remain
Did you watch the video? Foy accepted God and spread the message.
@@nadiar.7788 He rejected
@@niceguy9518 He accepted.
By their fruits ye shall know them. It appears only one tree of the three bore fruit to life everlasting. May God so help us to do the same as she.
@@chiawuotuanyanwu7044 🎼Lord helped me learn this piece: ruclips.net/video/DLhV2UXByyc/видео.html
With all due respect, neither of those men's lives reflect well on the Seventh Day Adventist church and it's doctrines.
If William Foy was faithful to God and even personally met Ellen White, then why did he never accept the Sabbath and join the S.D.A. church ?
They were hearing from the same God right ?
As for Hazen Foss, his story does not add up.
If he was remorseful enough to tell Ellen White to do her prophetic duty, then was he really lost ?
Does ignoring and losing the prophetic gift mean that one has been cast out from salvation ?
If he was such a castaway, he would not have cared, if Ellen White was faithful or not. I am inclined to believe that the encounter Ellen White described simply never happened. We do know that Foss never pursued the Christian life again.
The whole affair casts a dark blot on the character of God and makes no logical sense.
He's (Foss) not lost but afterward he don't give any interest of spiritual life....he actually not lost but he thought he was lost...and I believe if he comes to God, God will give him another chance
That was their choice or are you blaming EW for them not accepting the sabbath ?
@@c19commander44 I am only blaming EW for composing stories to enhance her reputation and stature.
@@thenowchurch6419 Thats your opinion.
@@ClayOfTheMaster Did you not watch the video?
It also says that Foss asked Ellen White to be faithful to the calling.
It does not add up does it?
Ellen White made up the story.
😢i feel pain when I watched this, I'm an Adventist youth we were call recently in one of the small town to go and safe the society by preaching to them since there is no one committed there, I don't want to delay please pray for me😢