Below is the parts list I used on my Klipsch R10SW cabinet. Sound dampening material (Generic Dynamat): amzn.to/3Nk29nJ PVC pipe: amzn.to/3qUVLfp 90 degree elbow: www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-4-in-PVC-DWV-90-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-Elbow-PVC003001400HD/203393427 Flared port: amzn.to/4427mYs Blu-Tack (great for making gaskets and sealing port hole): amzn.to/3CC3DoL Black paint: amzn.to/42R9gtP Dayton Audio DATS v3: amzn.to/43PBZAu SVS isolation feet: amzn.to/3CFhj2c WinISD download: www.linearteam.org/ My videos about upgrading speakers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBV3JdrXQtMPgv3Lc6YB6fdr My look inside videos on speakers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBXWNQtsEOqq_LynPGsLNpxy My videos about subwoofers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBW6xl4N0qoMVjsAFOOyq1Me
This goes to show that many budget subs are just bad designs to begin with. Too small enclosures with too small ports, trying to achieve something that looks decent on a spec sheet but actually can't hold up to that. This is a very fun project, thanks for sharing!
All of these budget subwoofer are built to a price point which means concessions have to be made. Engineers have to cut costs at almost every corner in order to meet a low price point. IMO Klipsch did a pretty good job of allocating their money where it counts. The cabinet is is made out of 3/4" MDF while most are 1/2" MDF at this price point. Klipsch also added internal bracing and even lined the cabinet walls with damping material. If you like to DIY, then with a little time and money this subwoofer can be much better. :)
When you look at subwoofer drivers, the cheaper ones need huge boxes to perform properly. You need to spend significant money for a driver that performs well in a small box. Even then, they usually require a bigger amp. Klipsch probably needs to spend no more than $130 for this to retail in the low $200's. Any sub at this price point is destined to be sub-par based on these realities.
Thanks, George! Glad you like the videos and I appreciate the kind words. I'm just having fun here and trying not to be too serious. :) I'm trying to show people that it is possible to get some nice performance upgrades out of some budget speakers for reasonable money. That is if you're willing to put in the work.
Thanks, Greg! Wait until you see the SPL numbers in part 4. This thing even surprised the heck out of me. I can't believe how loud this little 10" can slam!
I'm still building my boxes, taking my time! Almost got one done. Have a question, I've been hooking my klipsch's up, lfe from back of sub to receiver sub preout. I've read that sometimes you lose performance this way and need to hook from left and right channel from sub to sub preout on receiver using a coax splitter? Is this correct?
Can't tell you how happy I am to find your DIY videos! I just bought the Klipsch Reference Cinema 5.1.4 package and it includes the RS100SW. I'm waiting for a 9 channel AV receiver to come on sale, but in the mean time I added the Klipsch sub to my Atlantic Technology THX Certified 5.1 system who's sub died. Nice to have a sub back and it doesn't sound bad, except the chuffing and the resonance. I was thinking about applying traditional best practices to see if I could coax better performance out of it, like the SVS isolation feet which I have on order, and was also thinking about better internal matting, I like that you used the Dynamat, I'll give that a shot. If I were to keep the stock driver (which personally I think is more than enough for this cabinet) would simply changing to a 4" flared port help? I know the length should be correct, but I'm not crazy about the PVC snorkel :)
Thanks for the kind words! I don't know if you saw part 4 of my video series yet, but the port is still too small with my ML subwoofer installed. If you keep the stock driver, then a 4" port should be more than adequate and should resolve any port chuffing issues. If you decide to add the ML sub, just understand that port chuffing will happen especially if you give it the power that it needs (400 watts or more). Good luck with the project!
Would've loved to see the SVS isolation feet results before modifying the tube, just to see the incremental differences as you tweak this sub. I like what I see!
I was planning on doing a video on the isolation feet, that's why I haven't said much about them in this video, but they do help! My Klipsch subwoofer had very hard 1/4" isolation feet that didn't do much to decouple the subwoofer from the floor so these new feet definitely helped! Hope this helps!
@@generationbehindhifi your Klipsch sub came out great, no doubt about it! Looking for those Martin Logan replacement 10" sub drivers on fleabay, almost all of them are rated at 100W, but the one you picked up is 700W, that's a beast. I'll keep an eye out for the driver like you picked up. Any other drivers you might recommend? I'm thinking about an incremental upgrade, do a 4" internal flared port tube, Dynomat the interior, and add the SVS isolation feet. I'll recalibrate and see how that works out, while keeping an eye out for a possible driver replacement. No doubt that ML driver you picked up is night and day in both build quality, weight and output. Still, I cannot help but wonder if the stock Klipsch sub driver couldn't do a better job with better porting, interior matting and the SVS isolation feet. Thanks again, I geek out on these DIY projects :)
@@CalCobra I would try and find a driver from the Dynamo 700W or Dynamo 800X. The 800X driver has an inverted surround which I'm positive will help with the frequency response of the driver. If you do go with the same driver and do the same port as I do then understand that you will get port chuffing the moment you upgrade the amp. If you are using the factory amplifier than it doesn't have enough power to drive the ML driver to the point that port chuffing is a huge issue or at least mine didn't. I left links in the description to the 4" ports, damping material, and other parts I used to create my "FrankenKlipsch" subwoofer. You're right at home if you get geeked out on DIY projects like this because I'm the same way. My best advise is to just play with it and try different things until you find out what works best for you. Now would be a good time to download WinISD and get familiar with the software program. You can measure the volume of your enclosure and model it in WinISD to see how different drivers will react. If you don't have a Dayton Audio DATs V3 to measure the TS parameters of your driver, then just use the parameters from mine, because I'm sure they measure very similar. And most of all have fun with it! Good luck!
Yes, when I had terrible port chuffing I would jam a rag in the port hole and it sounded pretty decent, but didn't quite have the slam I was looking for. I wanted to turn this into a great HT subwoofer so I really wanted to figure out the port problem and I'm glad that I did because now it really slams!
Thanks! You will get ALOT of port chuffing with the factory port. Even with the bigger port that I installed I'm still getting port chuffing -- I talk about this in part 4. I haven't decided if I will make a part 5 to fix the chuffing issue so we will see.
@@generationbehindhifithanks for the quick reply. What I meant was if I use the longer port tube like you did but route it inside the woofer box. It may have to be somewhat shorter tube , but have it contained to inside the box.
@@jman4250 If you route it inside the cabinet then you will lose valuable internal volume which you need. I wouldn't do that because it will change the response curve dramatically. That's the reason why I made the port stick out the back.
Hi! Did you keep the original amplifier? And could I use another driver? Here in brazil there is no martin logan. I’ve found some focal, JL automotive SUb and pioneer…
Hello, sounds like you didn't see part 4 if you're asking about the Klipsch Amplifier? No, I'm no longer using the Klipsch amplifier. I'm using a subwoofer amplifier from Monoprice to power my new subwoofer. I couldn't use the original amp because under heavy bass the Klipsch amplifier would go into protect mode when using the Martin Logan driver so I had to get rid of it. Sure, you can use any driver you want, but make sure you model it in WinISD to make sure its appropriate for the Klipsch cabinet. I talk about the modeling I did in this video series. Hope this helps!
I think your stated cost is a bit lower, you can use the DATS for other things but it is a cost, and a lot of labor,but I'm sure the learning experience makes it worth it. Nice work on a fun project.
I bought an older 8” Klipsch subwoofer from Facebook marketplace. Before with the factory sub it seemed to be blown with tons of vibration coming from the sub. I replaced the sub with a Skar audio 150 rms sub which should be plenty. I installed the sub and tested and now I have a lot of chuffing which is to be expected. With more air movement now I was trying to look into getting a bigger port to mitigate this issue but if anyone could give some advice would be much appreciated.
Isn't that a ML driver designed for a sealed cabinet? Btw those Dynamo 700 drivers are amazing. I think they're made by Scanspeak. I love my Dynamo 700.
Hello, That is correct. I discus this in a previous episode (JBL 550P upgrade series). I was surprised ML put this driver in a sealed enclosure because the T/S parameters I measured say this driver is better suited for a ported enclosure. If QTS is .4 or below, then typically it's better suited for a ported enclosure. The QTS value on my ML driver measured in at .38 when using my Dayton Audio DATS v3. I'm surprised ML put this driver in a sealed enclosure, but it sure does slam after getting my ported cabinet dialed in. I'm shocked this 10" can deliver this kind of output. No doubt its a very good driver!
The damening material needs to be warmed up with a heat gun and then a roller needs to be used to press it to the interior wood walls. Skipping this step will result in greatly diminished performance of the material. The material may even fall off inside if it was applied in colder weather.
The instruction that came with the Amazon Basics damping material that I used mentions none of what you are saying. As long this stuff is installed in an environment where its at least 75 degrees F, then you are good. Maybe you are thinking of another product that requires a heat gun? But the stuff I purchased is very tacky and doesn't require a heat gun or roller.
@generationbehindhifi the Amazon Basics sound deadener is a dynomat knockoff. I'm sure it works perfectly fine, just like the other knockoffs. There are plenty of videos explaining how to install this product (under various name brands). I have installed similar sound deadening on the inside of car doors, floors, etc. I have also installed it in speakers. You are right that given both the deadener and the surface are above 75° it should adhere fine. Once you've seen how much better it works with the heat gun, you won't install without it. I have seen it peel from the inside of a car door when a heat gun and roller weren't used. Of course, the inside of a car door will see much more extreme weather conditions than a speaker in a house. The material expands when heated. If you roll it while it's warm, it adheres with much greater strength. When it cools everything is locked in tight. In a car situation, you want to heat it beyond what the car will experience in the wild. If it's adhered at 75° with no roller and the car gets to 130° in the desert heat, you run the risk of it coming loose. It does work great inside speakers. I used it in some Polk monitors, and it helped tremendously in knocking down cabinet resonances.
I'm sure you have some scrap pieces leftover. Perform a side by side experiment. One piece of wood with no heat, no roller. The other piece of wood with heat, then rolled on. If you don't want to buy a sound deadener roller, use a metal pipe or rolling pin. If using the rolling pin from your kitchen, use parchment to protect the rolling pin. Try both methods, wait a few hours, then try to pry them both off. Knock the pieces of wood to see if there's a difference in sound quality.
What brace are you referring to? The cabinet is pretty quiet now with these upgrades so I don't see the need for additional bracing. You also have to remember I don't have the internal volume to give up to an extra brace without messing with other parameters that will affect the sound quality. That's the big problem with trying to integrate a subwoofer into a cabinet it wasn't designed for, you learn about concessions and trade offs. It was a fun project and I learned a lot from it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Below is the parts list I used on my Klipsch R10SW cabinet.
Sound dampening material (Generic Dynamat): amzn.to/3Nk29nJ
PVC pipe: amzn.to/3qUVLfp
90 degree elbow: www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-4-in-PVC-DWV-90-Degree-Hub-x-Hub-Elbow-PVC003001400HD/203393427
Flared port: amzn.to/4427mYs
Blu-Tack (great for making gaskets and sealing port hole): amzn.to/3CC3DoL
Black paint: amzn.to/42R9gtP
Dayton Audio DATS v3: amzn.to/43PBZAu
SVS isolation feet: amzn.to/3CFhj2c
WinISD download: www.linearteam.org/
My videos about upgrading speakers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBV3JdrXQtMPgv3Lc6YB6fdr
My look inside videos on speakers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBXWNQtsEOqq_LynPGsLNpxy
My videos about subwoofers can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLg0Xq1LbiZBW6xl4N0qoMVjsAFOOyq1Me
This goes to show that many budget subs are just bad designs to begin with.
Too small enclosures with too small ports, trying to achieve something that looks decent on a spec sheet but actually can't hold up to that.
This is a very fun project, thanks for sharing!
Kinda like they wanted to design a sub within budget restraints.
All of these budget subwoofer are built to a price point which means concessions have to be made. Engineers have to cut costs at almost every corner in order to meet a low price point. IMO Klipsch did a pretty good job of allocating their money where it counts. The cabinet is is made out of 3/4" MDF while most are 1/2" MDF at this price point. Klipsch also added internal bracing and even lined the cabinet walls with damping material. If you like to DIY, then with a little time and money this subwoofer can be much better. :)
When you look at subwoofer drivers, the cheaper ones need huge boxes to perform properly. You need to spend significant money for a driver that performs well in a small box. Even then, they usually require a bigger amp. Klipsch probably needs to spend no more than $130 for this to retail in the low $200's. Any sub at this price point is destined to be sub-par based on these realities.
😮Very inspiring.All your series of videos had me on the edge of my seat. Not to many videos on RUclips with your expertise. Very perfecciónale.
Thanks, George! Glad you like the videos and I appreciate the kind words. I'm just having fun here and trying not to be too serious. :) I'm trying to show people that it is possible to get some nice performance upgrades out of some budget speakers for reasonable money. That is if you're willing to put in the work.
Great job on the Frankenstein subwoofer this is what I was waiting for!
Thanks, Greg! Wait until you see the SPL numbers in part 4. This thing even surprised the heck out of me. I can't believe how loud this little 10" can slam!
Awesome job!! Part 4 please, and more projects!!
I'm still building my boxes, taking my time! Almost got one done. Have a question, I've been hooking my klipsch's up, lfe from back of sub to receiver sub preout. I've read that sometimes you lose performance this way and need to hook from left and right channel from sub to sub preout on receiver using a coax splitter? Is this correct?
Having fun and enjoying your hobby - well done!
Would be interesting to compare your moded woofer to a stock martin logan Dynamo
Can't tell you how happy I am to find your DIY videos! I just bought the Klipsch Reference Cinema 5.1.4 package and it includes the RS100SW. I'm waiting for a 9 channel AV receiver to come on sale, but in the mean time I added the Klipsch sub to my Atlantic Technology THX Certified 5.1 system who's sub died. Nice to have a sub back and it doesn't sound bad, except the chuffing and the resonance. I was thinking about applying traditional best practices to see if I could coax better performance out of it, like the SVS isolation feet which I have on order, and was also thinking about better internal matting, I like that you used the Dynamat, I'll give that a shot. If I were to keep the stock driver (which personally I think is more than enough for this cabinet) would simply changing to a 4" flared port help? I know the length should be correct, but I'm not crazy about the PVC snorkel :)
Thanks for the kind words! I don't know if you saw part 4 of my video series yet, but the port is still too small with my ML subwoofer installed. If you keep the stock driver, then a 4" port should be more than adequate and should resolve any port chuffing issues. If you decide to add the ML sub, just understand that port chuffing will happen especially if you give it the power that it needs (400 watts or more). Good luck with the project!
Would've loved to see the SVS isolation feet results before modifying the tube, just to see the incremental differences as you tweak this sub. I like what I see!
I was planning on doing a video on the isolation feet, that's why I haven't said much about them in this video, but they do help! My Klipsch subwoofer had very hard 1/4" isolation feet that didn't do much to decouple the subwoofer from the floor so these new feet definitely helped! Hope this helps!
@@generationbehindhifi your Klipsch sub came out great, no doubt about it! Looking for those Martin Logan replacement 10" sub drivers on fleabay, almost all of them are rated at 100W, but the one you picked up is 700W, that's a beast. I'll keep an eye out for the driver like you picked up. Any other drivers you might recommend? I'm thinking about an incremental upgrade, do a 4" internal flared port tube, Dynomat the interior, and add the SVS isolation feet. I'll recalibrate and see how that works out, while keeping an eye out for a possible driver replacement. No doubt that ML driver you picked up is night and day in both build quality, weight and output. Still, I cannot help but wonder if the stock Klipsch sub driver couldn't do a better job with better porting, interior matting and the SVS isolation feet. Thanks again, I geek out on these DIY projects :)
@@CalCobra I would try and find a driver from the Dynamo 700W or Dynamo 800X. The 800X driver has an inverted surround which I'm positive will help with the frequency response of the driver. If you do go with the same driver and do the same port as I do then understand that you will get port chuffing the moment you upgrade the amp. If you are using the factory amplifier than it doesn't have enough power to drive the ML driver to the point that port chuffing is a huge issue or at least mine didn't. I left links in the description to the 4" ports, damping material, and other parts I used to create my "FrankenKlipsch" subwoofer.
You're right at home if you get geeked out on DIY projects like this because I'm the same way. My best advise is to just play with it and try different things until you find out what works best for you. Now would be a good time to download WinISD and get familiar with the software program. You can measure the volume of your enclosure and model it in WinISD to see how different drivers will react. If you don't have a Dayton Audio DATs V3 to measure the TS parameters of your driver, then just use the parameters from mine, because I'm sure they measure very similar. And most of all have fun with it! Good luck!
Did you try to just seal the port?
Yes, when I had terrible port chuffing I would jam a rag in the port hole and it sounded pretty decent, but didn't quite have the slam I was looking for. I wanted to turn this into a great HT subwoofer so I really wanted to figure out the port problem and I'm glad that I did because now it really slams!
Great project thanks ,.I'm doing the same one. Can I just use the port without modifying it? ?? Without the tubes out of the back.?
Thanks! You will get ALOT of port chuffing with the factory port. Even with the bigger port that I installed I'm still getting port chuffing -- I talk about this in part 4. I haven't decided if I will make a part 5 to fix the chuffing issue so we will see.
@@generationbehindhifithanks for the quick reply. What I meant was if I use the longer port tube like you did but route it inside the woofer box. It may have to be somewhat shorter tube , but have it contained to inside the box.
@@jman4250 If you route it inside the cabinet then you will lose valuable internal volume which you need. I wouldn't do that because it will change the response curve dramatically. That's the reason why I made the port stick out the back.
Hi! Did you keep the original amplifier? And could I use another driver? Here in brazil there is no martin logan. I’ve found some focal, JL automotive SUb and pioneer…
Hello, sounds like you didn't see part 4 if you're asking about the Klipsch Amplifier?
No, I'm no longer using the Klipsch amplifier. I'm using a subwoofer amplifier from Monoprice to power my new subwoofer. I couldn't use the original amp because under heavy bass the Klipsch amplifier would go into protect mode when using the Martin Logan driver so I had to get rid of it.
Sure, you can use any driver you want, but make sure you model it in WinISD to make sure its appropriate for the Klipsch cabinet. I talk about the modeling I did in this video series. Hope this helps!
I think your stated cost is a bit lower, you can use the DATS for other things but it is a cost, and a lot of labor,but I'm sure the learning experience makes it worth it. Nice work on a fun project.
Thanks! I had a lot of fun tinkering and I learned a lot!
What is the impedance on the Dynamo?
4 ohms.
I bought an older 8” Klipsch subwoofer from Facebook marketplace. Before with the factory sub it seemed to be blown with tons of vibration coming from the sub. I replaced the sub with a Skar audio 150 rms sub which should be plenty. I installed the sub and tested and now I have a lot of chuffing which is to be expected. With more air movement now I was trying to look into getting a bigger port to mitigate this issue but if anyone could give some advice would be much appreciated.
Ok , and now show in WinISD, group dalay ?
Group delay peaks at 17ms at roughly 30hz.
So cool bro!
Wow 😲 Very Nice 👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Isn't that a ML driver designed for a sealed cabinet? Btw those Dynamo 700 drivers are amazing. I think they're made by Scanspeak. I love my Dynamo 700.
Hello,
That is correct. I discus this in a previous episode (JBL 550P upgrade series). I was surprised ML put this driver in a sealed enclosure because the T/S parameters I measured say this driver is better suited for a ported enclosure. If QTS is .4 or below, then typically it's better suited for a ported enclosure. The QTS value on my ML driver measured in at .38 when using my Dayton Audio DATS v3. I'm surprised ML put this driver in a sealed enclosure, but it sure does slam after getting my ported cabinet dialed in. I'm shocked this 10" can deliver this kind of output. No doubt its a very good driver!
The damening material needs to be warmed up with a heat gun and then a roller needs to be used to press it to the interior wood walls. Skipping this step will result in greatly diminished performance of the material. The material may even fall off inside if it was applied in colder weather.
The instruction that came with the Amazon Basics damping material that I used mentions none of what you are saying. As long this stuff is installed in an environment where its at least 75 degrees F, then you are good. Maybe you are thinking of another product that requires a heat gun? But the stuff I purchased is very tacky and doesn't require a heat gun or roller.
@generationbehindhifi the Amazon Basics sound deadener is a dynomat knockoff. I'm sure it works perfectly fine, just like the other knockoffs. There are plenty of videos explaining how to install this product (under various name brands). I have installed similar sound deadening on the inside of car doors, floors, etc. I have also installed it in speakers. You are right that given both the deadener and the surface are above 75° it should adhere fine. Once you've seen how much better it works with the heat gun, you won't install without it. I have seen it peel from the inside of a car door when a heat gun and roller weren't used. Of course, the inside of a car door will see much more extreme weather conditions than a speaker in a house.
The material expands when heated. If you roll it while it's warm, it adheres with much greater strength. When it cools everything is locked in tight. In a car situation, you want to heat it beyond what the car will experience in the wild. If it's adhered at 75° with no roller and the car gets to 130° in the desert heat, you run the risk of it coming loose. It does work great inside speakers. I used it in some Polk monitors, and it helped tremendously in knocking down cabinet resonances.
I'm sure you have some scrap pieces leftover. Perform a side by side experiment. One piece of wood with no heat, no roller. The other piece of wood with heat, then rolled on. If you don't want to buy a sound deadener roller, use a metal pipe or rolling pin. If using the rolling pin from your kitchen, use parchment to protect the rolling pin. Try both methods, wait a few hours, then try to pry them both off. Knock the pieces of wood to see if there's a difference in sound quality.
I'm unable to find any ML subs , your video created a vacuum lol
It took me some time to finally get one as well. Just keep at it. :)
you should build up that brace elsewhere tho !
What brace are you referring to? The cabinet is pretty quiet now with these upgrades so I don't see the need for additional bracing. You also have to remember I don't have the internal volume to give up to an extra brace without messing with other parameters that will affect the sound quality. That's the big problem with trying to integrate a subwoofer into a cabinet it wasn't designed for, you learn about concessions and trade offs. It was a fun project and I learned a lot from it.
It's almost like buying a better subwoofer isn't an option......🤦♂🤦♂🤦♂
If that's what you got from this video series, then you missed the whole point of why I was doing this.
username accurate
#NotAHacker