Hey, Jonathan. I hope this hasn't been done before (If so, I wasn't able to find it) but I'd be very interested in a video about the life cycle of a gun in the royal armouries. This would probably be a more elaborate video but I'd love to see what happens to a gun once it arrives at the museum, what makes you choose a specific gun for an exhibition and how it is maybe prepared beforehand etc.. Basically the whole process and inner-workings of the royal armouries in regards to guns. Anyway, love your content and happy new year :)
5:34 The lineage is even longer, the MKb42(h) was previously known as: sMP42 - schwere Maschinenpistole 42 / heavy sub-machinegun 42 MP42 - Maschinenpistole 42 / just sub machinegun 42 (heavy was removed) MP42s - Maschinenpistole 42 schwer / sub machinegun 42 heavy (the heavy was re added but to the end) MK42 - Maschinenkarabiner 42 / machinecarbine short MK, until the Germans notices the MK was already in use for "maschinenkanone" (autocannon / lit. machinecannon) MKb.42 - Maschinenkarabiner 42 / machinecarbine (this time written MKb. to prevent confusion with MK) MKb.42(h) - the (h) was not added untill Walther joint the competition. MKb.42 H.S. - Heanel had planed to make another MKb. to prevent confusion the one from Hugo Schmeisser was labes H.S. (Haenel Schmeisser)
I'm a life long gun nerd and a social media denier, and I think these videos stand on their own just fine. Love the content you guys put up on this channel, don't you worry about that, just keep it coming!
Jonathan (and the whole team at The Royal Armouries), thank you again for the magnificent information you provide! Just one little suggestion, though. Is there any way you could get more light? I do appreciate the dark theme, but earlier, on footage filmed in the conference room, we were able to actually see the item(s) you presented.
The mount for the optics was also meant for the ZG 1229 Vampire, or Zielgerät (Zielgeraet; aiming device) 1229 Vampir, which had been in development around that time as well.
Do you have examples of the MkB 42 development i.e the Henchel and Walther wariants? Anyway fun video as always! Happy new year to Jonathan and the team!
Interesting thoughts on how the STG 44 started become cruder as the war turned for Germany as well as the the introduction of genuine last ditch weapons. Reminds me of the reverse as you watch the The Sten go from a truly dreadfully finished Mk I and more prevalent Mk II to the Mk V that actually had places to put your hands and the luxury of mounting a useless bayonet!
In my research into the STEN, one of my first discoveries was that Mk.I and Mk.II STENs were being trialled together at the same time, before adoption of either. I have a HUGE amount of more research to do but this was a very surprising early find. This was from he Archive at the Royal Armouries, Leeds, courtesy of Jonathan and colleagues. Must find time to do more!
What is this heresy!?! There is no such thing as a useless bayonet!!! Now I have to upload pictures of my incredibly clever and useful Stinger launcher with bayonet, or my bayonet equipped MATV, or the extremely deadly bayonet mount for my laptop!
Thank you for a very informative and expert video. But please can we fix the lighting of these videos? My eyesight is not what it was, it would be super to be able to see the detail. Thank you for your work to bring the collection to a wider audience. Bravo!
Fantastic Thanks, so well done; cripes my dad would have liked one of these in Greece, Crete, North Africa, and Italy with the 20th Battalion of the New Zealand Army. The 303 Enfield wasn't that bad!
6:07 "... and we have examples of those too ( the two manufactures of Mkb - 42 )..." and I look forward to the day those rather interesting Mkb-42 (W) and (H) rifles are featured in a video here. Thanks to Jonathan and The Royal Armouries for this video! (:
27:37 thank you so much for mentioning the Vickers Guide book on this rifle ( and other WWII designs ). Larry Vickers has a long association with H K and WWII era German firearms, an expert in the field if there ever was one. Larry has had a rough couple of years, and I am sure he appreciates his work being mentioned here. Thanks again.
I remember hearing somewhere (FW?) that the reason for the elimination of the optic rails on the rear sight base is that it simply wasn't repeatable enough to hold zero well enough to be worth using.
I saw a picture of captured weapons in Iraq back in 2004, and aside from the AK variants and ubiquitous SVD, there was one lone STG at the end of the row.
@@ManDuderGuy There's more than enough, not to mention reloading. If you're against the US you could probably have the Chinese run up a large batch for ya. Not to mention that the Russians were giving the north Vietnamese a metric shit-ton of these and the ammo to keep'em in the fight for some time.
@@ManDuderGuy There's more than enough, not to mention reloading. If you're against the US you could probably have the Chinese run up a large batch for ya. Not to mention that the Russians were giving the north Vietnamese a metric shit-ton of these and the ammo to keep'em in the fight for some time.
@ManDuderGuy Prvi Partisan used to make 7.92 kurtz till fairly recently. As Jonathan said Yugoslavia had ... "acquired" a substantial number of these rifles at the end of WWII. So they would have reason to seek out supplies like ammo and spares, for some years after that.
Apparently, PSA announced at the 2023 SHOT show, they were introducting a slightly modernized Stg 44 with fairly simple caliber conversion between 8mm Kurz, 5.56, 300 Blackout and 7.62x39. A version you can shoot a lot and get spare parts for.
So, does something marked MP43 give the same emotional support as the Stgw 44? When you say heavier than a first gen AK fo you mean type 1 stamped ones or the milled variant they switched to due to problems?
One of the main reasons Hitler did not want production to start on MP-43 production was not only that it appeared ugly to him, but there was an ammunition shortage which would be made worse with introduction of a new cartridge, 8mm kurz.
Yeah people flog this horse that Hitler hated the Stg and he was dumb not to jump on it faster. Hitler understood how much new ammo each soldier would need and the logistics involved. The intro of a whole new cartridge. If your him your looking at an MkB42 that fires from an open bolt and is not all that thrilling or accurate. Giving more people the ability to go full auto is something I am sure gave him great pause.
20:00 To be fair, the US also had the Garand so ya' know, self loading rifles are pretty convenient. They were still using the Springfield so, not completely self-loading.
Johnathan, have you ever thought of showcasing a cartridge (I mean specific cartridge for example Balle D not overall 7x50mm R) on a What is this weapon or in RA's YT channel? It would be awesome as heck to see that
I'm not one to tell a firearms expert about his job but... the term assault rifle is not problematic beyond the fact that some people think that semi-automatic rifles are assault rifles. The real problem term (at least here in the U.S.) is "assault weapon".
I demand a collab of Jonathan with Gun Jesus (Ian McCallum [Forgotten Weapons]) Cause this is just so good! I think they'd both be an amazing little series! :D
3:17 I thought the term "Assault Rifle" derives from the Lewis-"Assault Phase Rifle" from 1916 naming the rifle after the "Assault Phase" of trench warfare ..
It would be fun. Also high risk and a bit expensive ( current pricing on ammo being what it is, let alone if a rifle were damaged ). We would not likely see a "range" video from Royal Armouries, it is not really in their normal work ( other than extracting samples of a fired bullet - which they rarely show ). Others have fired several original and put together parts kits here on youtube. I recommend both Larry Vickers and Forgotten Weapons because they have good footage and outstanding information, just search for each model.
If I was an engineer sitting between all these weapons, I'd probably say that the AK (which is the contentious post-war design) is a conglomeration of the M1 Garand and the STG44. Uniquely from the STG44 being the short rifle cartridge and the over-barrel design of the gas piston. The specifics of what gun gets invented where lag behind the necessities of war, and that goes for the shape of the gun (which a lot comes from cheap stamping requirements). Mass produced enough and it becomes a "hero gun", even after that war is over. But it seems weird that the idea that the AK is just an STG44 knock-off is one that pops up pretty persistently. idk there are limited number of ways to port energy into rotation etc
Bizarre to hear of crates of the MP/STG 43/44 turning up in Syria. I wonder if the people who found/provided them realised what they had on their hands. Fairly certain there would've been a long queue of American collectors who would've paid a pretty penny for a good quality example.
but the average american collector can not buy them. they are limited to what is already registered, and this Registry was closed in 1986. that's why the prices are so high. so only dealers with licence for FA guns could buy them as samples, maybe for a reference collection. and that market is very limited. I'm quite sure there is no resell market to LE for this old guns, they will prefer more modern guns. makes it quite hard to argue why a dealer should stock them
They were shipped to Syria by the French in 1948 along with Panzer IV tanks… And because the weren’t in the US before 1986, they can’t be registered and are therefore illegal… (though you could import them as parts kits if the gun is cut in half through the receiver).
Does the Royal Armories Have any of the East German wieger stg.940 series ? ? ? I've only just found out about it them and there's very few videos online.
5:52 On that note, I wonder why did the East Germans call their AKs MPi rather than MKb? The latter designation would both follow the older German terminology and align better with the Soviet one (автоматический карабин - automatic carbine). 7:42 I notice a slight difference in buttstock shape, is that related to some sort of later repair? 10:41 It is my understanding that such style of front sight protector was considered customary on German military rifles at that time. Similar problems are reported to occur with Kar.98k, and Germans had plenty of time to change the design, especially since the annexation of Czechoslovakia they got their hands on a better style of front sight protector as used on Vz. 24 rifles. 18:45 What about the Isaac Lewis's 'assault phase rifle' of 1918? 21:05 These were in Syrian army service some time in the 1960s (possibly acquired from Czechoslovakia), as far as I know the last photo of them used is dated to the early '70s, and after that they were likely put in storage.
I have a .22 version based externally on the Stg 44 same size and all, not sure about the weight.... semi auto but great fun and looks pretty cool. A US start-up tried to manufacture semi-auto replicas in 8mm Kurz and 7.62/39 (I think) but it appears that they failed and a lot of people lost deposits. They got close I understand but never got over the hump.
I recall the Americans had a similar debate about whether or not the M1 Garand rifle could replace all other arms in the rifle squad and potentially the platoon. Shows a lot about how much doctrine was wedded to the basic capabilities of the repeating rifles. Moment someone has a weapon of similar bulk that can shoot a lot more in a hurry, people start dreaming that one gun can do it all.
It's a necessity really. Keep in mind that the previous doctrines have been based on what the platoons previously were armed with, so any major change into the dynamic not only leads to new possibilities, but potentially also new problems if you just continue with the old doctrine.
Good quality lumber was becoming very hard to come by by the time the STG was adopted. It’s one of the reasons why the K98 went to having laminated stocks mid war.
@@snowflakemelter1172 It ultimately came down to German logistical doctrine later in the war. If the majority of the parts of the STG were going to be made out of stampings, why complicate the manufacturing with another piece of wood or bakelite when the metal fabricators that are trained in metal work can stamp out a stopgap/replaceable part in one tenth the time. The vg1-5 and vg-5 rifles used short stock configurations where the piece of wood being used didn’t have to be a long piece of knot free hard wood. They were essentially putting crude, minimalist hunting stocks on their last ditch weapon designs.
Is there any chance that you got a piece of the earlier variants of this gun like the Mkb 42 H, or the MKb 42 W. If yes I would love to see Jonathans thoughts on them.
I remember reading that the MP43/44/STG44 was cheaper to produce than an M1 Garand, is that broadly correct? And, if so, is that all due to the ease of manufacturing stamped steel gives? It almost seems incredible that it'd save that much.
Stamping is an extremely cheap way to produce things for the era, but the complex stampings (remember the Soviets took years of working with Germans to develop their stamping abilities for the AK) of items like this had massive upfront costs compared to more traditional manufacturing methods. So what is cheaper would likely depend heavily on how many units are produced with more units favouring the stamped weapon.
The Hanel StG 44 took 75 man hours, materials included, to make. That wasn’t enough so the Mauser StG 45 was only supposed to take 45 man hours. The only raw material Germany was self sufficient in was magnesium. This can only really be pressed into shape (TIG welding excepted). The expertise Germany developed in magnesium presses worked its way into aluminium and steal. This is an area German industry was way ahead in. They had complex castings, forging a and pressings especially for aircaft parts.
I read somewhere one of the reasons for not replacing “standard weapons “ was ammunition production Having to switch to short cartridge production, would compromise the product of the standard cartridge Also there was millions of standard cartridges in storage
Yeah it's a logistical feat to add another cartridge, I can sympathize with the old geezers who just wanted to stick with 1 pistol cartridge and 1 rifle cartridge.
Not really, machine guns with full power cartridge were there to stay. Suppression fire at long range was needed in WW2, especially in Eastern Front. US experienced that range disadvantage in Iran and Afghanistan where freedom fighters had full power rifles.
@@AKUJIVALDOThe German army wanted to replace every rifle and every MG42 and every MP40 in the 12 man squad. The MG42 would be kicked up past platoon level to brigade level.
In Battlefield V you can actually swap between the larger and smaller stocks in the cosmetic customization Edit: that grenade launcher segment is great
It's a Machine Pistol 43 with an improved cartridge used fur flank security for the MG-42. Even if the user is not the squad leader equivalent. Borgmann- for Borgman Royal Archives.
An interesting thing is why the Mp43/1 was special. The highest one I have seen is a registered one in the us at serial number 3xxxk/44. The Mp43/1 except for a few instances always had the heaven barrel. However Haenel did not use different serial number ranges. The MP43/1, Mp43, Mp44 & StG44 are all in consecutive numbers. There are no set blocks unless of course the dies wore out and the designation was no longer made, in which case it disappears from the produced nomenclature. There is more to the Mp43/1 barrel than is understood at this time.
A hypothetical example of consecutive numbers would be: Mp43/1 1001g/44 Mp43. 1002g/44 Mp44. 1003g/44 StG44. 1004g/44 The MKb 42(H) had its own serial number range.
When I saw this I thought "GREAT! I'll bet the royal armouries has pristine examples of all the variants, can't wait to see" ... 7 minutes later they're finally on the table and I start playing "spot the differences" and then watch a slow progression through the differences, and a slightly jumbled run through of the history. As for all the differences being in front of the receiver: those two have different versions of buttstock, as you mentioned.
As I understood it, Sturmgewehr basically translated to something akin to "storm rifle", as in "to storm an objective" or "storm the beach", i.e. to assault something. So it was the weapon used in assaults etc.. And this is the dawn of the term assault rifle, right?
the coolest thing is, after I've watched an episode of your videos or by forgotten weapons, I can play with that weapon in VR, because in H3VR many of these weapons are either in the game or can be modded into :) of course not every single one but some of them are ;-)
Tell me you have never disassembled a Roller-Delayed blowback without telling me you’ve never… The MKb/Stg44 has nothing in common with the CETME/G3-family and works on entirely different principles. Different design teams, different outcomes.
@@903lew The Cetme was literally designed by some of the same engineers from Mauser, and while it's a blowback operated gun and not a long stroke piston operated gun, there are a lot of similarities in its construction, most of all the stamped receiver is a direct result of the STG design. Ludwig Vorgrimler is the one who patented the roller delay system in Germany during WW2
@@broadstken you're thinking of the STG 45 though, not STG44 that this video is about. You are right on technicality. I agree with you, but internally the STG44 and CETME are totally different.
@@broadstken Vorgrimler always worked on blowback, never on pistons. Furthermore, Mauser was not involved in the Stg44/MP43/MKb, that was Haenel. But sure, someone working on tracks at MAN was key to gearboxes at Henschel. Because of course they were.
Not all of the MP43/1 rifles have the ZF41 rail on the back sight tower. Mp43/1 still had a some of the left over MKB42H parts, Stock, barrel. muzzle nut and sight tower.
I believe the real problem governments had with adopting semi and full automatic weapons was the cost and logistics of manufacture and transport of the new weapon along with a much larger volume of ammunition.
I wish you had taken the gun apart so we could see how they worked. Also, you never explained what the threaded barrel was for. I'd love to see more on this historic and game changing weapon. Thanks for doing a video on it! One more thing, I have been able to find a video from this channel on the FG 42. I'd love to see that covered, including how it worked.
@@sugarnads Didn't they also issue a curved barrel and mirror attachment for armoured crews to hose off infantry at close range? Edit - Found it ruclips.net/video/HSsFiS2Voxg/видео.html
I'm late to the table with this, but I believe that the side by side shots here show a detail that differs behind the line you stay the weapons are identical. it may just be the lighting, but to me the MP43/1 has a slightly larger butt stock than the later versions. it appears in your video around the 7 minute mark...ish.
You are correct, the stocks were found to not fit into regular K98k storage brackets as they were too large. This change however happened a few months after MP43 production had taken over from the MP43/1. I think they made this change in March 1944, so many MP43s were still produced with the early, large stock.
I would disagree with the idea a standard assault rifle can replace the SMG. It can replace the SMG in general infantry service, but unless you go to a very cut down version (like the AKSU74), not as good a fit for the AFV crew defensive gun. (I'll disregard utterly the very niche roles, like VIP protection or special operations types with specialty requirements- the number of those users, compared to the overall army, is a rounding error.) If you argue that the SMG can be fully replaced in conventional military service by cut down variants like the AKSU74, then you have to accept assaukt rifle variants like the RPK and the USMC's IAR as legitimate "assault rifles", and they have absolutely established the *squad* / *section* level LMG can be replaced by an assault rifle variant (provided the base rifle platform isn't crap, like the L85/L86)... or at worst, a dedicated LMG (FN Minimi, HK MG4, Ultimax, Negev, etc.), in the intermediate cartridge (again, provided the LMG isn't crap ([cough, cough] CETME Ameli)), even if some use cases might call for pushing the "full power" GPMGs down to the squad/section level.
If the AFV crews in the vehicle, they can fight with the weapons mounted on the vehicle. They don't need sub-compact weapon to defend themselves. If the AFV crews fighting outside the vehicle, the space constrain is gone. Therefore, the standard infantry weapon (whatever it may be) will suit them just fine.
@@ichimonjiguy it's more about being able to store and then get out of the vehicle with the weapon. Watch Oxides video on Russian tanker kit, it demonstrates the point quite well.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey, Jonathan. I hope this hasn't been done before (If so, I wasn't able to find it) but I'd be very interested in a video about the life cycle of a gun in the royal armouries. This would probably be a more elaborate video but I'd love to see what happens to a gun once it arrives at the museum, what makes you choose a specific gun for an exhibition and how it is maybe prepared beforehand etc.. Basically the whole process and inner-workings of the royal armouries in regards to guns. Anyway, love your content and happy new year :)
Seconded, I'd love the inside look on this, or even knowing what Jonathan's "typical day" looks like.
that would be awesome to see
I think this is a fantastic idea
That would be excellent and incredibly interesting , but would probably take several days to film & edit . But it would be right up My street .
@The Old Man *_Forgotten Weapons_* channel has 3 to 5 or so videos on YT about the Sturmgewhrs, all together roughly an hour and a halves worth.
5:34 The lineage is even longer, the MKb42(h) was previously known as:
sMP42 - schwere Maschinenpistole 42 / heavy sub-machinegun 42
MP42 - Maschinenpistole 42 / just sub machinegun 42 (heavy was removed)
MP42s - Maschinenpistole 42 schwer / sub machinegun 42 heavy (the heavy was re added but to the end)
MK42 - Maschinenkarabiner 42 / machinecarbine short MK, until the Germans notices the MK was already in use for "maschinenkanone" (autocannon / lit. machinecannon)
MKb.42 - Maschinenkarabiner 42 / machinecarbine (this time written MKb. to prevent confusion with MK)
MKb.42(h) - the (h) was not added untill Walther joint the competition.
MKb.42 H.S. - Heanel had planed to make another MKb. to prevent confusion the one from Hugo Schmeisser was labes H.S. (Haenel Schmeisser)
I'm a life long gun nerd and a social media denier, and I think these videos stand on their own just fine. Love the content you guys put up on this channel, don't you worry about that, just keep it coming!
Thanks for sharing on this very social and media focused platform!
@@RonnocYad i think he mean stuff like TikTok/Snapchat/instagram
Jonathan (and the whole team at The Royal Armouries), thank you again for the magnificent information you provide! Just one little suggestion, though. Is there any way you could get more light? I do appreciate the dark theme, but earlier, on footage filmed in the conference room, we were able to actually see the item(s) you presented.
Good comment! This is something I have been meaning to comment on.
Hi! Could you guys do a video on the stoner 63?
Thanks Jonathan , I always learn something new when I watch a Royal Armouries video .
Thank you for the wealth of information, very enjoyable video.
The mount for the optics was also meant for the ZG 1229 Vampire, or Zielgerät (Zielgeraet; aiming device) 1229 Vampir, which had been in development around that time as well.
Do you have examples of the MkB 42 development i.e the Henchel and Walther wariants? Anyway fun video as always! Happy new year to Jonathan and the team!
Thanks
Fascinating and informative.
Interesting thoughts on how the STG 44 started become cruder as the war turned for Germany as well as the the introduction of genuine last ditch weapons. Reminds me of the reverse as you watch the The Sten go from a truly dreadfully finished Mk I and more prevalent Mk II to the Mk V that actually had places to put your hands and the luxury of mounting a useless bayonet!
Time is money.
In my research into the STEN, one of my first discoveries was that Mk.I and Mk.II STENs were being trialled together at the same time, before adoption of either. I have a HUGE amount of more research to do but this was a very surprising early find. This was from he Archive at the Royal Armouries, Leeds, courtesy of Jonathan and colleagues. Must find time to do more!
Thats because it was designed with no thought for the user. They had to add these things.
there is a cold war simplified version of the Sten.
It was then that the British realised that the Sten´s basics were the most basic it could go.
What is this heresy!?! There is no such thing as a useless bayonet!!! Now I have to upload pictures of my incredibly clever and useful Stinger launcher with bayonet, or my bayonet equipped MATV, or the extremely deadly bayonet mount for my laptop!
Back once again its the Gamespot master! Jonathan with the STG behaviour!
Very informative and enjoyable
I really do love this series!
Jonathan Ferguson is an absolute treasure. Love the content !
This is why I love your videos, I thought they only made one version of the gun. Every time I watch a video I learn something new. 😀👍
Awesome, thank you 👍😎
Very interesting
A lovely presentation and thanks for it. Liked and shared.
What great vid This is so interesting thank you 😊
Thank you for a very informative and expert video. But please can we fix the lighting of these videos? My eyesight is not what it was, it would be super to be able to see the detail. Thank you for your work to bring the collection to a wider audience. Bravo!
Yes, I have been meaning to comment that this location and specifically the table covering are too dark to see details. Good comment.
What's wrong with the light?
I love this content but I’d love it even more with better lighting and seeing the weapons against a light or white table
11.25 "This little sticky outy bit..."
You've just got to love Jonathan's precise technical descriptions.
Fantastic Thanks, so well done; cripes my dad would have liked one of these in Greece, Crete, North Africa, and Italy with the 20th Battalion of the New Zealand Army. The 303 Enfield wasn't that bad!
6:07 "... and we have examples of those too ( the two manufactures of Mkb - 42 )..." and I look forward to the day those rather interesting Mkb-42 (W) and (H) rifles are featured in a video here. Thanks to Jonathan and The Royal Armouries for this video!
(:
27:37 thank you so much for mentioning the Vickers Guide book on this rifle ( and other WWII designs ). Larry Vickers has a long association with H K and WWII era German firearms, an expert in the field if there ever was one. Larry has had a rough couple of years, and I am sure he appreciates his work being mentioned here. Thanks again.
I remember hearing somewhere (FW?) that the reason for the elimination of the optic rails on the rear sight base is that it simply wasn't repeatable enough to hold zero well enough to be worth using.
I saw a picture of captured weapons in Iraq back in 2004, and aside from the AK variants and ubiquitous SVD, there was one lone STG at the end of the row.
Cant believe there's still enough of the ammo left to actually feed them.
There were alot STGs in the syrina conflict
@@ManDuderGuy There's more than enough, not to mention reloading. If you're against the US you could probably have the Chinese run up a large batch for ya. Not to mention that the Russians were giving the north Vietnamese a metric shit-ton of these and the ammo to keep'em in the fight for some time.
@@ManDuderGuy There's more than enough, not to mention reloading. If you're against the US you could probably have the Chinese run up a large batch for ya. Not to mention that the Russians were giving the north Vietnamese a metric shit-ton of these and the ammo to keep'em in the fight for some time.
@ManDuderGuy Prvi Partisan used to make 7.92 kurtz till fairly recently. As Jonathan said Yugoslavia had ... "acquired" a substantial number of these rifles at the end of WWII. So they would have reason to seek out supplies like ammo and spares, for some years after that.
Apparently, PSA announced at the 2023 SHOT show, they were introducting a slightly modernized Stg 44 with fairly simple caliber conversion between 8mm Kurz, 5.56, 300 Blackout and 7.62x39. A version you can shoot a lot and get spare parts for.
You mean you can now kit up a Sturmgehwer, same as you can an AR-15 ??? .....
So, does something marked MP43 give the same emotional support as the Stgw 44?
When you say heavier than a first gen AK fo you mean type 1 stamped ones or the milled variant they switched to due to problems?
It's heavier even than the type 2 (the first milled pattern). I think it's nearly 5 kg.
One of the main reasons Hitler did not want production to start on MP-43 production was not only that it appeared ugly to him, but there was an ammunition shortage which would be made worse with introduction of a new cartridge, 8mm kurz.
Yeah people flog this horse that Hitler hated the Stg and he was dumb not to jump on it faster. Hitler understood how much new ammo each soldier would need and the logistics involved. The intro of a whole new cartridge. If your him your looking at an MkB42 that fires from an open bolt and is not all that thrilling or accurate. Giving more people the ability to go full auto is something I am sure gave him great pause.
20:00
To be fair, the US also had the Garand so ya' know, self loading rifles are pretty convenient. They were still using the Springfield so, not completely self-loading.
Johnathan, have you ever thought of showcasing a cartridge (I mean specific cartridge for example Balle D not overall 7x50mm R) on a What is this weapon or in RA's YT channel? It would be awesome as heck to see that
I keep threatening to throw a certain cartridge in as a side match there but have not got round to doing it yet...
I'm not one to tell a firearms expert about his job but... the term assault rifle is not problematic beyond the fact that some people think that semi-automatic rifles are assault rifles. The real problem term (at least here in the U.S.) is "assault weapon".
Can you do a video on the MkB?
I demand a collab of Jonathan with Gun Jesus (Ian McCallum [Forgotten Weapons]) Cause this is just so good! I think they'd both be an amazing little series! :D
I second that!
Demand? Start paying first!
Didn't they do that in the desert a few years ago?
They have done! Go look up their bullpup video!
3:17 I thought the term "Assault Rifle" derives from the Lewis-"Assault Phase Rifle" from 1916 naming the rifle after the "Assault Phase" of trench warfare ..
hello
where/when did you get the two samples you have there?
thanks
I would love to see a day at the range with that collection..that would be a fun watch
It would be fun. Also high risk and a bit expensive ( current pricing on ammo being what it is, let alone if a rifle were damaged ). We would not likely see a "range" video from Royal Armouries, it is not really in their normal work ( other than extracting samples of a fired bullet - which they rarely show ). Others have fired several original and put together parts kits here on youtube. I recommend both Larry Vickers and Forgotten Weapons because they have good footage and outstanding information, just search for each model.
@Will S I get that, there are plenty of other videos of people shooting similar guns on the tube
If I was an engineer sitting between all these weapons, I'd probably say that the AK (which is the contentious post-war design) is a conglomeration of the M1 Garand and the STG44. Uniquely from the STG44 being the short rifle cartridge and the over-barrel design of the gas piston. The specifics of what gun gets invented where lag behind the necessities of war, and that goes for the shape of the gun (which a lot comes from cheap stamping requirements). Mass produced enough and it becomes a "hero gun", even after that war is over. But it seems weird that the idea that the AK is just an STG44 knock-off is one that pops up pretty persistently. idk there are limited number of ways to port energy into rotation etc
please do a video in which you tear down the Solothurn S3-200 belt fed. Also I hope you can also make a video on the Solothurn S2-200 magazine fed
Bizarre to hear of crates of the MP/STG 43/44 turning up in Syria. I wonder if the people who found/provided them realised what they had on their hands. Fairly certain there would've been a long queue of American collectors who would've paid a pretty penny for a good quality example.
Exporting from a war zone .
but the average american collector can not buy them. they are limited to what is already registered, and this Registry was closed in 1986. that's why the prices are so high.
so only dealers with licence for FA guns could buy them as samples, maybe for a reference collection. and that market is very limited. I'm quite sure there is no resell market to LE for this old guns, they will prefer more modern guns. makes it quite hard to argue why a dealer should stock them
Jonathon mentioned the latest units lacking QC, so maybe those grapes were sour anyway ;~;
They were shipped to Syria by the French in 1948 along with Panzer IV tanks…
And because the weren’t in the US before 1986, they can’t be registered and are therefore illegal… (though you could import them as parts kits if the gun is cut in half through the receiver).
Lol , they're still being used in the Ukraine today
You should a grey or white table cloth!
Is there any info about the STG 45? It's very difficult to find about.
Does the Royal Armories Have any of the East German wieger stg.940 series ? ? ? I've only just found out about it them and there's very few videos online.
Quick question. Will this rifle give me emotional support like your STG 44 does? 😂
The MKB-42 (H) is an awesome looking weapon. Red orchestra 2 one of my fav guns to use
5:52 On that note, I wonder why did the East Germans call their AKs MPi rather than MKb? The latter designation would both follow the older German terminology and align better with the Soviet one (автоматический карабин - automatic carbine).
7:42 I notice a slight difference in buttstock shape, is that related to some sort of later repair?
10:41 It is my understanding that such style of front sight protector was considered customary on German military rifles at that time. Similar problems are reported to occur with Kar.98k, and Germans had plenty of time to change the design, especially since the annexation of Czechoslovakia they got their hands on a better style of front sight protector as used on Vz. 24 rifles.
18:45 What about the Isaac Lewis's 'assault phase rifle' of 1918?
21:05 These were in Syrian army service some time in the 1960s (possibly acquired from Czechoslovakia), as far as I know the last photo of them used is dated to the early '70s, and after that they were likely put in storage.
I have a .22 version based externally on the Stg 44 same size and all, not sure about the weight.... semi auto but great fun and looks pretty cool. A US start-up tried to manufacture semi-auto replicas in 8mm Kurz and 7.62/39 (I think) but it appears that they failed and a lot of people lost deposits. They got close I understand but never got over the hump.
I've got myself one too. Mine is a GSG StG-44 in .22LR. I mounted an ACOG clone on it, so I get some looks when I take it to the range. ^_^
PSA announced introduction of it this year at SHOT show 2023.
I hope Jonathan reviews the GM-94 pump action Grenade Launcher behind him soon aka the Russian China Lake (but official)
Hi Jonathan, we going to see an fg42 segment on here soon.??
Great vid Jonathan Ferguson, also the stocks are diffrent mp43 is bigger lol (: keep the vids rolling all the best!
Having a light grey table cloth rather than black would make it easier to see the weapons. Also better lighting for the closeups is needed.
25 minutes of Stg44 ASMR -- yes please
I recall the Americans had a similar debate about whether or not the M1 Garand rifle could replace all other arms in the rifle squad and potentially the platoon. Shows a lot about how much doctrine was wedded to the basic capabilities of the repeating rifles. Moment someone has a weapon of similar bulk that can shoot a lot more in a hurry, people start dreaming that one gun can do it all.
It's a necessity really. Keep in mind that the previous doctrines have been based on what the platoons previously were armed with, so any major change into the dynamic not only leads to new possibilities, but potentially also new problems if you just continue with the old doctrine.
Question;
The reduced power cartridge was also available in the form of the M1 carbine, which came first?
The steel handguard is a fundamental design flaw, I wonder why they stuck with it ?
Good quality lumber was becoming very hard to come by by the time the STG was adopted. It’s one of the reasons why the K98 went to having laminated stocks mid war.
You will be wearing gloves regardless in freezing conditions.
@@zoiders WW2 wasn't fought just in cold climates.
@@STdoubleDs true, but im thinking of the last ditch VG weapons which all had wood stocks and hand guards so there must have been timber available.
@@snowflakemelter1172
It ultimately came down to German logistical doctrine later in the war. If the majority of the parts of the STG were going to be made out of stampings, why complicate the manufacturing with another piece of wood or bakelite when the metal fabricators that are trained in metal work can stamp out a stopgap/replaceable part in one tenth the time. The vg1-5 and vg-5 rifles used short stock configurations where the piece of wood being used didn’t have to be a long piece of knot free hard wood. They were essentially putting crude, minimalist hunting stocks on their last ditch weapon designs.
Jonathan, I can be mistaken, but isn't the buttstock different?
It also showed up in the Dutch East Indies and Vietnam.
Is there any chance that you got a piece of the earlier variants of this gun like the Mkb 42 H, or the MKb 42 W. If yes I would love to see Jonathans thoughts on them.
11:21 "Sticky-outy bit"
And that's how Jonathan Ferguson became the first honorary 'umie mekboy.
Quite simply, yet another great and informative vid Jonathan. One day you might stop surpassing yourself!!!
Does Royal Armouries have an MKB 42H in its possession?
Beautiful gun, ahead of its time
You should do one on the mp 3008 if you have one in the collection
This is a proper assault rifle
This German mp44/stg44 is clearly the inspiration for the AK 47. Though the ak shared some features with the equaly tough and reliable M14 garand
Please make an episode about PPD-38, 38/40, PPSh-41, PPSh-2, PPS-42, PPS-43 etc.
I'm falling in love with your beard
One of these guns is the one Jonathan hugs after doing video with GameSpot and seeing all the cursed guns they have concocted
I remember reading that the MP43/44/STG44 was cheaper to produce than an M1 Garand, is that broadly correct? And, if so, is that all due to the ease of manufacturing stamped steel gives? It almost seems incredible that it'd save that much.
Stamping is an extremely cheap way to produce things for the era, but the complex stampings (remember the Soviets took years of working with Germans to develop their stamping abilities for the AK) of items like this had massive upfront costs compared to more traditional manufacturing methods.
So what is cheaper would likely depend heavily on how many units are produced with more units favouring the stamped weapon.
@@88porpoise Very good point.
The Hanel StG 44 took 75 man hours, materials included, to make. That wasn’t enough so the Mauser StG 45 was only supposed to take 45 man hours. The only raw material Germany was self sufficient in was magnesium. This can only really be pressed into shape (TIG welding excepted). The expertise Germany developed in magnesium presses worked its way into aluminium and steal. This is an area German industry was way ahead in. They had complex castings, forging a and pressings especially for aircaft parts.
The East German’s equipped African nations/ guerrilla units with them in the 1960’s/70’s
Jonathan and Mark Felton should collaborate
a bit of Light would be great 7:20
I read somewhere one of the reasons for not replacing “standard weapons “ was ammunition production
Having to switch to short cartridge production, would compromise the product of the standard cartridge
Also there was millions of standard cartridges in storage
Yeah it's a logistical feat to add another cartridge, I can sympathize with the old geezers who just wanted to stick with 1 pistol cartridge and 1 rifle cartridge.
Not really, machine guns with full power cartridge were there to stay. Suppression fire at long range was needed in WW2, especially in Eastern Front.
US experienced that range disadvantage in Iran and Afghanistan where freedom fighters had full power rifles.
@@AKUJIVALDOThe German army wanted to replace every rifle and every MG42 and every MP40 in the 12 man squad. The MG42 would be kicked up past platoon level to brigade level.
In Battlefield V you can actually swap between the larger and smaller stocks in the cosmetic customization
Edit: that grenade launcher segment is great
The smaller stock is a wire stock, definitely rendering the gun inoperable due to the stock having a recoil spring
@@rosaria8384 I'm not talking about the wire stock, that's a different thing. It has the different sized wood stocks as seen in this video.
It's a Machine Pistol 43 with an improved cartridge used fur flank security for the MG-42. Even if the user is not the squad leader equivalent. Borgmann- for Borgman Royal Archives.
An interesting thing is why the Mp43/1 was special. The highest one I have seen is a registered one in the us at serial number 3xxxk/44. The Mp43/1 except for a few instances always had the heaven barrel.
However Haenel did not use different serial number ranges. The MP43/1, Mp43, Mp44 & StG44 are all in consecutive numbers. There are no set blocks unless of course the dies wore out and the designation was no longer made, in which case it disappears from the produced nomenclature. There is more to the Mp43/1 barrel than is understood at this time.
A hypothetical example of consecutive numbers would be:
Mp43/1 1001g/44
Mp43. 1002g/44
Mp44. 1003g/44
StG44. 1004g/44
The MKb 42(H) had its own serial number range.
What about the STG 45 prototype?
Your videos are always interesting, but I often find myself staring at the two target rifles in the row behind you and wandering what they are...
When I saw this I thought "GREAT! I'll bet the royal armouries has pristine examples of all the variants, can't wait to see" ... 7 minutes later they're finally on the table and I start playing "spot the differences" and then watch a slow progression through the differences, and a slightly jumbled run through of the history. As for all the differences being in front of the receiver: those two have different versions of buttstock, as you mentioned.
As I understood it, Sturmgewehr basically translated to something akin to "storm rifle", as in "to storm an objective" or "storm the beach", i.e. to assault something. So it was the weapon used in assaults etc.. And this is the dawn of the term assault rifle, right?
I'm impressed with your German and how you can connect the words storm rifle to assault rifle. Bravo!
the coolest thing is, after I've watched an episode of your videos or by forgotten weapons, I can play with that weapon in VR, because in H3VR many of these weapons are either in the game or can be modded into :)
of course not every single one but some of them are ;-)
The STG evolved into the Cetme, and then into the HK. following the family tree from WW2 to the present would be a good video
Tell me you have never disassembled a Roller-Delayed blowback without telling me you’ve never…
The MKb/Stg44 has nothing in common with the CETME/G3-family and works on entirely different principles. Different design teams, different outcomes.
@@903lew The Cetme was literally designed by some of the same engineers from Mauser, and while it's a blowback operated gun and not a long stroke piston operated gun, there are a lot of similarities in its construction, most of all the stamped receiver is a direct result of the STG design. Ludwig Vorgrimler is the one who patented the roller delay system in Germany during WW2
@@broadstken you're thinking of the STG 45 though, not STG44 that this video is about.
You are right on technicality. I agree with you, but internally the STG44 and CETME are totally different.
@@broadstken Vorgrimler always worked on blowback, never on pistons. Furthermore, Mauser was not involved in the Stg44/MP43/MKb, that was Haenel.
But sure, someone working on tracks at MAN was key to gearboxes at Henschel. Because of course they were.
The Buttstock on the 43/1 looks bigger as well.
Not all of the MP43/1 rifles have the ZF41 rail on the back sight tower. Mp43/1 still had a some of the left over MKB42H parts, Stock, barrel. muzzle nut and sight tower.
I believe the real problem governments had with adopting semi and full automatic weapons was the cost and logistics of manufacture and transport of the new weapon along with a much larger volume of ammunition.
Jonathan, did you just make this video because you needed a little emotional support?
Yes
Must have seen the end of year cursed guns that Dave has had him look at and gotten heavy PTSD flashbacks
I came for this, thank you.
He needs it badly.
Jonathan's Legendary Emotional Support Stg 44 is officially part of internet gun/videogame lore.
... What about the latter (I'm aware,it was never used in combat) STG 45 ?.
aaaa the sticky outy bit... kkkk... the mostest technical term...
It's a handsome piece
there needs to be an STG for AR/AK foreign exchange program.
Eugene Stoner and James Sullivan first saw constant recoil in the MP-44..Stoner called it that run out thing..
To me these are one of the best looking assault rifles ever.
I wish you had taken the gun apart so we could see how they worked. Also, you never explained what the threaded barrel was for. I'd love to see more on this historic and game changing weapon. Thanks for doing a video on it!
One more thing, I have been able to find a video from this channel on the FG 42. I'd love to see that covered, including how it worked.
He did say they had plans to design various muzzle devices like suppressors but never did
@@andreww2098 That's true.
Only reason for a threaded barrel is to fit a suppressor
@@sugarnads Didn't they also issue a curved barrel and mirror attachment for armoured crews to hose off infantry at close range?
Edit - Found it ruclips.net/video/HSsFiS2Voxg/видео.html
Look for Forgotten weapons' on RUclips as ian has done a few videos on this type of weapon. Including firing.
If this isn't the best lunch time treat!
I'm late to the table with this, but I believe that the side by side shots here show a detail that differs behind the line you stay the weapons are identical. it may just be the lighting, but to me the MP43/1 has a slightly larger butt stock than the later versions. it appears in your video around the 7 minute mark...ish.
You are correct, the stocks were found to not fit into regular K98k storage brackets as they were too large. This change however happened a few months after MP43 production had taken over from the MP43/1. I think they made this change in March 1944, so many MP43s were still produced with the early, large stock.
I would disagree with the idea a standard assault rifle can replace the SMG. It can replace the SMG in general infantry service, but unless you go to a very cut down version (like the AKSU74), not as good a fit for the AFV crew defensive gun. (I'll disregard utterly the very niche roles, like VIP protection or special operations types with specialty requirements- the number of those users, compared to the overall army, is a rounding error.)
If you argue that the SMG can be fully replaced in conventional military service by cut down variants like the AKSU74, then you have to accept assaukt rifle variants like the RPK and the USMC's IAR as legitimate "assault rifles", and they have absolutely established the *squad* / *section* level LMG can be replaced by an assault rifle variant (provided the base rifle platform isn't crap, like the L85/L86)... or at worst, a dedicated LMG (FN Minimi, HK MG4, Ultimax, Negev, etc.), in the intermediate cartridge (again, provided the LMG isn't crap ([cough, cough] CETME Ameli)), even if some use cases might call for pushing the "full power" GPMGs down to the squad/section level.
Once you go to needing a more compact weapon for vehicle crews, then you might choose an SMG (L2A3) or a PDW or a Carbine (L22A2).
If the AFV crews in the vehicle, they can fight with the weapons mounted on the vehicle. They don't need sub-compact weapon to defend themselves. If the AFV crews fighting outside the vehicle, the space constrain is gone. Therefore, the standard infantry weapon (whatever it may be) will suit them just fine.
@@ichimonjiguy it's more about being able to store and then get out of the vehicle with the weapon. Watch Oxides video on Russian tanker kit, it demonstrates the point quite well.
I think the Rumanians produced 7.92mm kurtz well after the war.
What about the stg-45?
Still one of the best looking assault rifles