Mack was caught in between a rock and a hard place. Say something, accept the fine and hope things change or stay quiet and don't seem bitter. He called it how he saw it! At least he was authentic. Post match interviews can be very robotic. The values of the sport are definitely to be cherished but it's hard to overlook total injustice!
The Barrett shoulder to Aki's head was blatant and everyone saw it, it was even replayed, the ref ignored the call to have a look at it and the TMO was either asleep or incompetent. I say all that as a die hard Leinster fan and have not heard any different from any other Leinster fan. Barrett should have got a red, but instead played on and and had a blinder of a match and without doubt saved Leinster's arse and got man of the match. Premiership refereeing is far superior, the URC really need to get the officiating in order.
Why are referrees so precious? The TMO can scrutinise a player's actions to the nth degree. But referees actions? It's all hush hush afterwards. Nobody ever accused Nigel Owens about being biased. Why? Beacuse he wasn't biased, not veven againt the Springboks back in the day when they were viewed as nothing but bully's. That new female Scottish referree runs a clean and livey game. Get more of her type!
What happened to Du Pont in the last World Cup where in a press conference after their quarter final he called the ref a disgrace and went in hard on him? Edit: I was wrong about this statement. DuPont did not in fact call Ben a disgrace in the press conference and wasn’t too scathing about his criticism what he mostly said was he felt SA got most of the 50/50 calls.
You just have to read how you spell Dupont to understand your nationality.... But if you like facts, here we go: Dupont never said "the ref was a disgrace" he said he didn't understand many France-SA decisions (O'Keefe also revealed it was his worst game ever afterwards). Which is very different with Hansen comments evoking a conspiracy between Leinster and referees, or Rassie 2h video directly attacking World rugby referees. But hey, it would not suit your mythomaniac narrative, isn't it?
@@zisssssou I’ve actually gone back and watched the post match press conference and DuPont didn’t call the ref a disgrace must’ve been Mandela effect on my part. He just said that he didn’t feel the ref was up to the level that he needed to be for the match and got some 50/50 calls more to the SA side than to his side. Not sure where I got the idea that DuPont called Ben a disgrace. For most part Fabian and Antoine was graceful in their post match press conference.
@@zisssssou as if you haven’t made mistakes in your claim? You said Rassie made a 2 hour video directly attacking World Rugby. Wrong, twice. Well done. 1 hour video which coaching staff are entitled to making, and often make and send directly to World Rugby, raising questions about officiating and asking for clarification. This happens behind the scenes all the time. Just because you don’t know that it happens, doesn’t mean it’s something suddenly unusual. In the video Rassie brings up decisions and asks for clarity. This is not “attacking World Rugby” as you so hyperbolically state. The question is not about the video being made and sent to WR, because all coaches do so. The question is about leaking the video to the public as Rassie may or may not have done directly. That’s still up for debate. But the video leaked while in his possession and that’s what he was punished for, not for making it. So, you can delete your comment now and maybe consider coming down from your high horse. Fact is Dupont criticized the officiating and got no ban Hansen flat out attacked officials directly and in an official press conference and got a slap on the wrist and Erasmus got a 12 month ban for presumably leaking his communications between him and WR.
@greenplasticgun well, tat was 4 long and boring paragraphs, just to unfortunately confirm what most of Boks fans really are in 4 words: passionate but sick mythomaniacs.
Well the referee he had a pop at (Chris Busby) has announced his retirement today. At just 38 he should be at his refereeing peak it seems he is feeling like he hasn't been supported.
@@jackdeegan3617 no but he said it was a tipping point. There is a lot of general abuse from fans. Fans have too many direct ways to send abuse at refs. When Wayne Barnes retired he revealed he had received death threats.
Its been proven empirically by research that teams that are higher ranked get better refereeing decisions than teams that are ranked lower. Its not confined to rugby but can be seen in soccer, Rugby League, etc. There is a strong psychological pressure on referees not to cost a "top" team a victory by making mistakes.
Yeah the refs are human so that's going to be a factor. That being said I watched that game and didn't expect that kind of reaction - the refereeing wasn't flash but I didn't think it was biased
@@icefarrow7959 you could argue that the Boks have benefited from that recently, including the last World Cup. maybe that's a sign the ABs are not as dominant as they used to be.
Mack's comments were a bit of sore loser, however the specifics of the complaint are totally justifiable. A clear head shot on Bundi that wasnt reviewed at all by the team is ridiculous. And the touch judge reply when Mack asked him about it, more fucking ridiculous. He was talking about the big calls, not the 50/50 ones.
Busby has an unfortunate habit of making a snap decision, insisting he's right and refusing to review footage (either himself or by the TMO). However when he decides to review initally he will ad nauseum. His endless reviewing of the hit on Gus McCarthy and refusal to review the hit in Aki once left a very sour taste. He's done it in other games too this season - made a bad call and refuse to review. and it's getting attention. He's retiring now, blaming social media attention I understand. I wonder if there's more to it
I'm Irish and I understand where Mack is coming from but I can see why the refs need to be protected from these kind of comments. The refs do their best and they get things wrong because they are human and can't be seeing everything that goes in the game. I agree that 2 games would have been enough for this. He did not injure anyone physically. The maddening thing for Mack is that he was just coming back into his old form again. Now he will be rusty for the England game.
In fairness in that Leinster v Connacht game i think its the TMO that needs to be reviewed, the only time he spoke up was when he got the ref to look at a hit on McCarthy that the ref said was nothing and the the TMO went into his shell and then the Barrett hit on Aki was never reviewed. It feels a little like TMO speak up either too much or too little, just need to find a balance where it doesnt affect the flow of the game but still highlights clear or dangerous incidents that need to be looked at.
I certainly agree that Hansen has to be banned. Stupid comments at the time. I feel slightly sorry for O'Toole as his 'clear out' is nowhere near as dangerous as Tolo Latu's cheap shot at a young player. Dirty and gutless.
Its Mack Hansen. Should anyone be surprised? Hes an authentic, fun loving fellow with passion in him. And he really doesnt care. If refs can muck up calls, players can muck up press conferences. You only live once. Besides, its a helluva lot more entertaining than the usual nonsense people talk about in those things. Normally after match conferences, win or lose, are sooooooo boring. Its the same 200 interchangeable rugo-speak words all teams use, cobbled together in different combinations to sound new. Please. Someone throw a pie 🥧
He's a loose canon. Pete Wilkins should have cut him short in that interview. Actually, he shouldn't have been included in that interview anyway. The whole ethos of Rugby revolves around respect for the Ref's decisions. Mistakes can be made. Ask yourself this question: Why did the IRFU recruit Hansen for Connacht rather than for Leinster?
Totally correct!! The whole system is rigged in favour of UK and Ireland. Imagine what would have happened if an Argetinian, Italian or Figian player made the same comments!!!
Come off it man. I don't agree that it was right what Hansen has done and that i think he deserved a ban but to argue that the ban he got was too light and present evidence that is not comparable to what he has done. Give us a break. The evidence you present is apples and oranges. You can't compare physical challenges to verbal outbursts. The outcome of the action has diiferent effects on the game. In similar scenarios of verbal outbursts as reported by various media outlets, it may be viewed that Hansen recieved a heavier punishment comapared to others. Compare Johnny Sexton recieved a three game ban following his Champions Cup 2023 final altercation with Jaco Peyper. In a case identical to Sexton's, Black Lion forward Giorgi Tsutskiridze recieved a two game ban for his outburst against referee Kevin Bralley following his team's defeat to Scarlets in the 2024-25 EPCR Challenge Cup in December. In another similar case to that of Sexton, Cardiff head coach Matt Sherratt recieved a one game ban (with a further five suspended) due to his outburst against referee Mike Adamson, following his team's defeat to Ulster in April 2024. Cardiff were also given a suspended fine of just under €6,000 in comparison to Connacht’s €10,000. Incidently, Leinster were also fined, while Black Lions were not as part of their respected punishments. As reported by the media, the Welsh Rugby Union were not given any punishment for their response in this game where they published on their website "Cardiff were robbed of a win, after the TMO joined forces with the referee to disallow Theo Cabango’s late try which would have won the game". In another case, following the URC final in June 2024, the Bulls head coach, Jack White, did not recieve any punisment when he claimed referee Andrea Piardi has a habit of letting away sides win and that Glasgow only won because Piardi was sympathetic to away teams. He said "It’s twice in a row now the referee has let the away side win, In fact, three times - last year Munster won in Cape Town, Glasgow won in Munster, we won in Leinster and this referee let the away team win so maybe next year I’ll ask when we play away that I want him to try ref us". Also compare Antoine Dupont recieved no punishment following his outburst on referee Ben O'Keeffe in post match interview following France's defeat to South Africa in the Rugby World Cup 2023. While Rassie Erasmus was banned for a year following his outburst about referees (especially towards referee, Nic Berry) following the British and Irish Lions tour 2021. Not to forget, no punishment for Greig Laidlaw due to his comments against referee Romain Poite, following Scotland's defeat to Ireland in the Six Nations 2019, where he said “Frustrating things as well, Romain Poite picked us up in the middle of the field when Sean O’Brien has ripped the ball out and he’s given a knock-on and it’s right in front of him. He doesn’t seem to like us, Romain. He refereed us against South Africa as well and we don’t seem to see eye-to-eye. We’re not going to blame him, we look at ourselves and we give credit to Ireland.” There are countless other examples I could have added, but the point is Hansen was punished, as was his club and more severely compared to many others of a similar nature. Comparing physical challenges to verbal outburst are not the same. The punishment must fit the crime. If there is any argument on the topic of punishment for verbal abuse of referees, as has been pointed out in the examples above, it is that there is no consistency in the punishment handed out for such offences.
I think although it’s a severe ban, and it’s not been applied evenly at all to all folks who complain about the ref, the level of impact on referees has been getting worse - see Wayne Barnes on TGTBATR pod talking about all the security measures and safety protections he and his family had to have for a long time. The same with Ben O’Keefe on a Rugbypass interview. I don’t mind it being a strong ban, if it’s applied to all, and bans make sense within all the other banned offences. It rings of the same issues with world rugby around having more coherent application of rules and regulations, in many aspects of the game sadly.
Why can’t you say it? If you feel a Ref has been the reason that you lost a game, it’s no harm to go and say it get it reviewed and come back with their findings. Nothing wrong and it would only improve the Refs. So he was correct, you take an awful load of hardship so yes you should be entitled to ask for a review. The Refs will improve also
Perhaps for the injury ban, the penalised player should be banned for the amount of time it takes for the injured player to recover. It would certainly make them think twice before doing anything egregious.
Good theory but how do you differentiate between intent and accident? More players get injured in the normal course of the game than they do from deliberate foul play.
@@dennism5731 If a player has injured another, I doubt World Rugby is going to care if it was intentional. Their emphasis is currently for players not to put others in a position of harm.
I think he was fine saying those incidents should have been looked at more, he overstepped the mark accusing the ref of bias and I think it's clear that is the bit that actually got him in trouble. If he (or his team) were really that concerned there are ways to go about it. The thing is, refs and players are in a professional relationship and so should act accordingly. To torture an analogy, can you imagine having to turn up to work the next day after someone sent an all staff email accusing you of stealing from the office fridge without presenting any proof? That's what Hansen effectively did instead of going to HR like he should have and I think it's fair to expect that we shouldn't condone that. Edit: I think we were going to adjust ban lengths, they should go up for player safety stuff. 3 weeks for Hansen down from 6 feels about right. Also think it was not a good look with how long it took to get this ruling, feels like he made those comments ages ago, should have been done and dusted much quicker.
Rassie is a coach not a player. In that Hansen interview he even points to his coach beside him and says “he’ll get in trouble if he says anything so I will”
The ref in question stepping down at the same time as the ban went out is not a good look for irish rugby. That really looks like there could have been some fishy business going on in the IRFU
I think the ref in question got a lot of abuse online, and that was before the Mack Hansen incident even. I don't think there is any fishy business here
3 weeks seems reasonable to me, but I'm curious to know if there have been other comments about refs that have resulted in bans. I would think that dangerous play on field would be in a different category to post match comments, so it's hard to say whether Hansen's ban is in line with those examples.
On field "wrong" calls I can still comprehend and live with, but when TMOs get the calls "wrong", that is an unforgiveable sin and they should be gaoled for it 😀. I can understand the frustration of the players, but referees should be protected as they are only human after all. However, I feel that WR should sanction poor performances by officials, then players will less likely make public comments out of frustration.
100 %. There a lot in the video, The comments came from the right place . If Geordie Barrett was Carded,Connacht get to clear there line and go back up the field with a penalty and maybe could have got a losing bonus point, an apology from Mac and a person fine would be enough.The Ban! make a joke of the bans for more serious discipline issues. The fining of Connacht was €10,000 more than enough. Love the channel keep up the good work .
He is available to play for the 6-Nations. As you said he was probably not even earmarked to play all games in the next few weeks. It is therefore effectively a 1 or two match ban. Very light in my opinion. I also question if a non-AlgloSaxonCeltic player would be treated the same?
Why has their been so little focus on the TMO, Mark Patton? He was the one who let down the referee. How and why was the Jordie Barrett clear out on Bundee Aki was not reviewed and shown to the referee? The problem the game has is that no one knows what the outcome of a clear out like that will result in. The fact that the tmo did not bring this to the refs attention but was intent on showing him the connacht winger stepping across into a player that kicked through where the ref had said their was no issue and playing the clip till he produced a yellow card. (It possibly deserved a yellow card). If rugby is serious about protecting the head area, head impacts like Barretts should be a minimum yellow card. These yellow cards should result in the player being replaced after the ten minutes are up and taking no further part in the game. This would stop players making these clear outs.
Look, the standard of reffing is truly abysmal in the URC. Like stuff I've never seen before. But it's a slippery slopes when refs are being called out by players. Just can't do that in our game. We pride ourselves on respect in rugby.
Awww the poor refs can't handle criticism. You know how much players and coaches lose between mental health and monetary income based on referee decisions and now we are just like it's OK if the referee is crap because he's under stress.
Can someone please direct me to video of Hansen referring to Busby as 16th man. I've watched the press conference and didn't see him refer to the ref directly at any point.
I suggest you read Gerry Thornley in Irish Times artical on Hansen ban this week ,a real eye opener regarding ref treatment of connacht ,mainly by irish refs ,also was mr busby and his retirement as a result of being left out of irish international ref panel also ban seems to punish connacht fixtures and not ireland
hansen was right though, maybe not doing it at the presser but its not the first time a ref and his team has bolloxed up calls in favour of the bigger teams and never have to answer for it
Having watched that match and rewatched the match since the ban I have to share my opinion. So game where Hansen threw his tantrum was the Leinster Connacht christmas interpro where Leinster was penalised 15 times and Connacht was penalised 13 times. How can you think the referee was biased in a game where you were penalised less than the opponent. In terms of cards there was 3 potential cards that weren't given. 1. Ioane with a high tackle. Penalty only. TMO was insistent on it being reviewed and rereviewed because he thought it was a card. 2. Barrett should have been red carded for the hit on Aki. 3. Josh Murphy should have been red carded twice in a single incident for throwing an elbow and Snyman's head and a punch. Hansen has no scope to say that Connacht never get any calls and the game was like playing 16 players. He just had a temper tantrum in public.
There is a process where teams can request clarification regarding refereeing decisions, that should feedback to the ref to improve things for future games. I like Hansen, but I'm with the ref on this one, it's a very difficult job to determine blame with utter chaos at breakdowns etc, they need to be strong and confident to be competent without public bitching from players and threats from the public.
If youre getting calls wrong as an international referee you need to quit, you have 2 assistants and 50 cameras to make the right call. People pay lots of money to watch their players in action and when a ref isnt up to par the whole game goes sideways. Refs SHOULD be punished for bad refereeing its their job. Imagine a player misses all their attempts at goal then doesnt get punished or criticized... refs need to uphold a standard
Good vid. Two things can be true at the same time as you say. Violence is different to dissent. And the officiating should be protected at all costs regardless of if they’re sh1t. I hate to bring up football but if you let it go off the pitch you might see it creep onwards into the pitch. The violent incident ones are deffo lenient esp the first one you mentioned.
@TwoCentsRugby was Rassie’s video after first British & Irish Lions vs Springboks test in 2021 worse than Mack’s recent rant and Sextons verbal attack on Jaco Peyper in 2023?
There was a guy on my team that got 12 weeks for saying, "f***ing bias," while walking away after a penalty. I just wonder why the disparity between top level players who know what they're saying and continue in a press conference after compared to one outburst in the heat of the moment, not even to the ref. I'd say what Mack Hansen did was definitely worse and deserves a longer ban
Hansen was always a loose canon. Wilkins should be called out for allowing him to attend that press conference. When the IRFU recruited Hansen, why was he sent to Connacht rather than Leinster?
I thought Hansen came across as a bad loser and maybe they could have picked another player for the interview. As a spectator I always say to my friends when going to matches that "your team" cannot rely on the ref to win you the game, the players must play within the laws and stay on the playing pitch for 80+ mins. Having said that, there are many occasions after a game were you leave scratching your head and wondering at some of the calls!🤔
As a Leinster supporter I think Mack had to be disciplined but I still love him anyway. He probably should have engaged his brain before his mouth, but the guy is a good player and a good fella too. I feel sorry for the referee though as he has resigned now. I'm sure he has his story too. I am glad Mack will be back for the Six Nations though as he seems to be coming into form now. I think its rubbish about other teams getting penalised more when they play Leinster. Leinster penalty count at the moment is quite high much to the displeasure of their fans.
If someone can confirm or clarify, I have heard that referees are not allowed to publicly comment after games. That means they are not able to defend themselves from anything players, fans or RUclips commenters say. And they are the people who had the best view and actually know the Laws of the game. They are not allowed to prove that whatever is blowing up was actually refereed to the Laws of the game, and it was just the opposition outplayed our team at the time. So unless that changes, something needs to be done to protect them from the type of nonsense that MH spoke and has already been written below. And that is holding players to account when they disrespect the ref. WRT to the ban and length of the ban, Dylan Hartley was red carded and banned for 11 weeks for calling Wayne Barnes a cheat in the middle of a game, when fatigue and emotions are more likely to cause poor decisions. MH effectively called Busby a cheat after the game, after he had time to cool down. Based on that, he's lucky it's only 3 weeks. I was always taught, once the final whistle went and you walked over the white line, you left your frustrations on the field. Don't like the outcome, train better, play better next time. MH has lost my respect whining like he did afterwards. Hopefully, he is able to show that this was just a once off, bad day sort of thing, and re-earn the respect of those like myself. Everyone makes mistakes after all, even referees.
6 weeks for calling out a ref is black belt levels of "bullshido". How can we operate in an environment where players are measured by stats/outcomes and optics, the sponsors by investment and returns aswell as broadcasters reaching audiences and pumping out add revenues to particular markets to then go ahead and NOT measure referee impact OR allow them to quiet down a voice calling out imbalance in the game. 6 weeks is a joke. This isnt volunteer work, the refs get paid a decent wage they seemingly never go under the microscope and are protected like china dolls when something goes wrong and they are at the centre of it. Heat of the moment i get people making mistakes but there are trends when it comes to officiating and when you can wrap a referee up by knowing their own bias when it comes to refereeing a game with "Laws" and not interpretations its a joke. None of the aforementioned money driven entities go off of good faith "feeling" of what they see, its data driven so lets dive into these refs and see how much they hit and how much they miss.
Rubbish. There are procedures in place whereby Managers are facilitated in making feedback to Referee's organising bodies. A loose canon like Hansen should never have been allowed to attend a post-match interview. Wilkins was very remiss in allowing Hansen to cut loose like that.
This is not just one game I've seen this, time and time again over the years I've seen this bias against connacht but I'm a fan. I'm pretty sure most teams fans worldwide would say the same..except Crusaders leinster saracens and toulouse who always get away with anything.
It's the rules that are unclear, not the referees who are unfair. The priority of rugby must be the development of the referee and the safety of the player.
Back in the dark ages when i played, refs blew the whistle, gave some sign language and the player's didn't expect anything of the ref other than rulings. Today, refs are on field coaches, directing players about whether they're onside, attached, go back round, you're off your feet, hands off, NO!, lost, etc, and all they get back is players yelling at them (TJP), questioning decisions, or shaking heads and hands in hips etc. The AFL brought in a great rule. Any form of onfield descent is an automatic 50m penalty and the refs MUST enforce it. Let the fans boo all they like, but get players respecting refs on the field again That said, i lost money on Connacht a few weeks ago and seriously thought the ref was in on it 😠
Hansen was 100% right and I support him fully In rugby most referees are grossly incompetent and make blatantly biased decisions. When looking at the irish teams Leinster and Munster are clear favorites over the other 2 and get 9/10 of the 50/50 calls. In international rugby that used to be the case with the ABs. A 50/50 call would occur and the ABs would get it 9/10 times. Its gotten a little bit better but it was completely disgraceful in the 2010s how blatantly they were favorited by refs. World rugby and referees need to grow a fucking backbone and have a conversation about how unacceptable refereeing is in the game right now. This bullshit of "protecting referees" needs to stop ASAP because they should be criticized and grow from it and be better. Ive said it for at least 2 years now but if world rugby cracked down on referees and held them accountable for their crap performances then 90% of rugbys problems would disappear overnight. Its as simple as doing post match analysis and seeing what they did wrong and fineing them for bad performances. The second money gets involved all referees will suddenly improve 10×
So so frustrating for the player (hey, been there as a fan many times), but what I really really like about rugby so much, is that these things should be (and often are) settled behind closed doors. Didn't Ted get an award for keeping quiet post WC loss to France? Think of Steve Hansen's reaction to Ken Owens (on lions final test against NZ) obviously knocking on haha. Annoyed, but so damn respectful. It is what I really love about rugby, to be honest - the calm, reflectiveness. As a matter of fact, it is what really annoys me about football (the anger, hotheadedness, reactionary, etc.). Did Mack have a point? Yep, probably. Try and sort it out behind closed doors. I'm sure some of the refs are actually quite receptive (isn't that why Nige had such a good rep?).
Aye, I feel like 4 weeks reduced to 2 would make a lot more sense. I do think Connacht seem to get worse calls a lot but complaining to the media surely just invites more bad will from the referees in the long run.
Sad to see Chris Busby retiring after this incident. Hansen was way out of line. I agree it is one thing to say the referee was shit but it is a totally different thing to say he was biased. I actually think this is much closer to Rassie's actions with the Lions than it is to the on field stuff. When multiple referees are getting death threats on social media, and we are driving referees out of the game, I think 6 weeks is about right. Someone on r/rugbyunion suggested that he be made referee a bunch of amateur games with the cameras rolling and then have him sit in a press conference with all the incidents he missed playing in the background. Probably be a better watch than the Six Nations doc on Netflix.
I was at the game. The first half officiating had some pretty bad calls against Connacht. I think Busby could be more upset with the officiating team he got at the Aviva that night. The TMO missed the Barrat hit on Bundee which was very close to a red card. I can't see any mitigation, hit bundee's head with a tucked arm in from the side. The TMO also was pain stakingly asking him to look at a potential head clash when he said he could see nothing much in it and just awarded a Penalty. Add in that he was on the other side for the scrum calls which were penalising Buckley when he didn’t seem wrong (lineman should have helped him) and linesmen gave him no support on offside. I say he saw this at half time and the second half was a lot better. Mac was frustrated too and called it out and Busby took the heat for what wasn’t really his fault. I can see how Busby felt that it is not worth it… Refs inevitably get the flack for a team they didn't pick and might even trust. As for the bias... It kind of work like this IMHO. The night was bitterly cold, There was about 30,000 Leinster fans compared to a couple thousand Connacht fans, it was intimidating place for officials. I say officials inconspicuously know that making a bad call on the home team would lead to overwhelming reaction, even tight calls tough... Some officials just get caught up in it and know the media reaction (which is generally Dublin based) and wanting the clicks or subscribers from the bigger population are also inconspicuously keener eye for injustices against Leinster. None of this should because of Leinster being the bad guy, they are just supporting there team. My suggestion is that derbys should have Refs from out of the country... Mac reacted wrong. Busby deserved a team that was less influence by occasion. IMHO
@@foxliam10 Honestly I thought Chris had good second half, TMO was scary bad on the night and special mention to the linesman on the far side from me who said nothing about the Buckley scrum penalties which were wrongly given aganist him and the total lack of enforcement of the offside line... The offside line was 2 yards out in a few cases... Connacht prefer a well policed offside line as it allows them more space for their backs. They need that because usually they are the lighter team. Also, want a good entertaining game of rugby, set down markers early doors on the offside line and be consistent... It makes for way better rugby... Frank Murphy is one of the worst for policing it... It gets so bad that eventually he ends up randomly picking a side.... This is where I think linemen should be heavily evaluated individually. I would also suggest that maybe refs should be allowed to pick there officiating team (especially at URC level). Refs are ask to play with possible unknowns every week. I would suspect that this could have been Chris Busby issue.
The actual final punishment is a joke and absolutely ridiculous. Speaking entirely about the lack of consistency and transparency on punishments dished out for this exact transgression, even comparative media hype between different transgressors, from different nations and seriously, that convenient suspension of 3 weeks of the ban, and how fits the rugby calender... Come on
Ask any South African about Bryce Lawrence helping NZ to win there second WC by blowing out all there legitimate competition.The analysis of his calls did not track with his Super Rugby calls and he was then made NZ ref of the year. The point is that there are refs that are poor or biased and the players should be allowed to call them out
Hansen argument is that biased reffing is institutionalised ie. Has been happening over years. Ireland is a highly provincial place and you will even hear Munster supporters using the word hate to describe feelings towards Leinster which is strange for an outsider to understand. Perhaps it is spillover from the highly competitive GAA which is contested at the county level- not sure though, but definitely interprovincial animosity I’ve not seen elsewhere
Closest thing we have here is people who talk about the Crusaders "always getting the calls" etc. Back when Auckland was on top of the provincial game, there was a kid in Canterbury spotted with a sign he'd made saying "I hate you Auckland" Dunno if that would fly these days!
I think comparing it to clean out bans is somewhat irrelevant. Rugby has tried incredibly hard to cultivate an atmosphere of respect for refereeing. Both during the game and after. The fact that Hansen said this rant in the immediate official media briefing after the game is about as bad as it could possibly get. The unfairness in this ban is in comparison to Dupont saying the referee was not up to standard (shit) in the French quarter final exit. It was a terrible thing for him to say in that moment after an incredible game of rugby. World Rugby should have sanctioned Dupont for that comment. Rugby is on a slippery slope with refereeing and the players need to stand up and protect what is essentially an important part of the game. Sorry Mack.enjoy your rest.
The refereeing in the URC is awful, and he is entitled to be annoyed about it, but players can't be saying things like that to the media... people who are backing him up clearly don't understand that there are knock-on affects that go outside of the game and ruin peoples personal lives, and that shouldn't be allowed to happen.
I think it's fair. It's hard to compare this against an illegal play and agree with you that the sentences should be higher for a dangerous play that has led to a serious injury. While the post-match interviews would be highly entertaining and my god I wish some of the coaches and captains of the team I support had said something, I don't think tirades against referees is a good for the game. Dupont banging on about the ref in the quarter-final is the best example, they should have thrown the book at him, it was disgraceful! But hey it's the poster boy Dupont so we nest keep him happy...
The Irish: "Rassie's head must roll. A year ain't enough. We must protect the officials. Outrageous!" Also the Irish: "Hansen was totally right, we're behind him, refs are cheating! Mate, why are you comparing dangerous foul play to ref bashing? Compare ref bashing with ref bashing. If we did it would be 1 year for Rassie, nothing for Dupont and 3 games for Hansen. Make it make sense.
On one hand I understand his frustration. I don’t agree with his assessment of the refs, but the Irish club structure clearly favors one team. The system is built on having one hegemon club, the cohesion of which then translates to the national team. So, yeah, it must feel like an uphill battle. On the other hand, reckless stuff like this lights a fire under the online ref abuse. And unlike stars like Hansen, who have the adoration of fans and neat retirement fund, the refs have normal jobs, do the reffing on their spare time, and get inordinate amount of abuse for their trouble. I’m truly disappointed by the degree of sycophantic support Hansen gets from the ex-player pundits, especially from Ireland. And don’t get me started with the: “The degree of refereeing needs to improve!” How? By miracle? By the force of a wish? By applying more heat and online bullying online? The older I get, the less patience I have with the ref bemoaning mentality. What a childish notion. Yes, the refs do make mistakes (they’re human, duh). But to think, that they they go through all the grief only to intentionally bend the game is mind-numbingly dumb imho. The refs are the truest fans of the game. They serve the game. And their reward is an army of know-nothings abusing them, and telling them how evil and corrupt they are. I love rugby, but I’d never be a ref.
Hmm interesting. Rugby had traditionally prided itself on respect for refs and similar values, but I have noticed a change in behaviour. A small example of this is whenever there is head contact, a player will stay down to ensure that this is picked up by the cameras, and indeed there has been so much pressure on refs (Rassie perhaps?) that refs are applying the letter rather than the spirit of the laws and everything gets double checked. All that being said, we now live in what looks like a post modern world where words spoken or printed seem to be punished more heavily than actual physical violence, which doesn't seem quite right to me. I would love to see more common sense applied, even if it leads to less consistency, and a return to the ref being the sole arbiter of fact (even when he is wrong!)
It has never been a player's role, or right, to publicly criticise the officials. He got banned for breaking the rules. The powers that be needed to make a stand on this issue. Otherwise...?
People who are stupid and have to attack the referees at any level of the game is complete bs. I'm a rugby fan in general and also a sportsnut in general and the referees are still people, so they need to be treated with respect and dignity
Personal it was a fair ban I Personal think the irfu didn't want another player banned for 6 nations matches I do think refs need to be help to what went talking smack about the ref doesn't help
Sounds like a fair ban to me - anything that challenges the authority of the ref should be punished hard IMO. Difficult to compare it to bans for foul play as it's such a different type of event. It maybe better to look at this ban with reference to Cheika's ban for 'disrespecting a match day doctor' (2 weeks) in one of his first matches in charge of Leicester or Rassi's video post the Lion's game. Didn't Sexton also get a ban for something post-match? P.S. Thought Tizzard was lucky to only get 6 weeks.
Leinster had 14 penalties and 2 yellows. Meedia and soccer fans newly arrived to rugby creating a storm. For me Hansen was overboard, and now ref has gone. Not the values I have been brought up to in a half century in rugby . Nor my DAD'S who played his first match 76 years ago.
I think Barrett should have received a red after the dangerous clear out with Aki. Player safety was poor in that situation and the ref should be reviewed..
It's nonsense to think that refereeing performances should be off limits in rugby. Yes they should be treated with respect on the field which they are, but to create an environment where refs decisions can't be questioned at all or you'll be punished, is like some weird dictatorship. When the final whistle goes it's too late and the result is posted having massive effect on clubs finances and standings for the next season. Mack gets a match ban and Connacht get a fine to make an example and silence players speaking out in the future. It's sad
I think it is mostly TMO's that are the issue rather than ref's.very hard for refs to see everything during a fast game Touch judges could be a bit more proactive .just my opinion.
Hansen was a loose canon before he came to Connacht. He was tolerated as such in the Connacht setup. He has been tolerated within the Irish setup for too long. He is a liability. We're not that badly stuck for wingers that we have to tolerate his antics. Chris Busby, or any other Ref, shouldn't have to consider retirement in these circumstances. Good Refs are hard come by. Ireland wingers are plentiful.
@@DAGATHire My opinion, MATE! I'm not making things up. Regardless of the reason for Chris Busby's retirement, Hansen is still a loose canon. Connacht management is at fault here for allowing this mouthy individual to take a press sitting. "Fake news" ??? I don't understand that one. MATE.
@@mickeencrua if your opinion is out in the public stating things that are NOT TRUE then its not only fake news its in fact lies. Furthermore calling lies an opinion doesn't change the veracity of the lies does it Mate.
I thought that the world had learnt about slagging the ref from Rassie being banned a few years ago. Telling the ref what an A/hole he/she is cannot be compared to players deliberately injuring an opposing player. In ☝🏻 instance the ban should be until the injured player returns to full training. If not, then 50% of his match fee must go to the player who now is unable to earn a living. Without generalising...... The URC refs are not up to standard. And world rugby knows it.
Dont complain, don't explain. There are channels for ref feedback, look at the abuse that refs get when players/coaches go off-piste, Wayne Barnes, Nigel Owens, Ben O'Keefe to name but a few recent examples. If we dont want the game to go down the route of football with arguing and simulation, we have to accept that not everything will be perfect but otherall most of the time, the better team will usually win
He should have shut up and said, "Great job ref" anyone saying different doesn't understand the impact of him calling out a ref (even though he was right) on kids playing rugby at the weekend. Maybe the commentors have never played the game. Rugby has always been about respect towards the ref right or wrong. Anyone saying different is wrong and wants a different game. As has been said, this ain't soccer, and I don't want it ever to be.
All employment contracts outlaw negative comments about your employer or employer operations . Professional sport personalities are no different . Just shut it and let supporters deal with decisions . Some of the refs in URC are absolute crap but I doubt if it reaches the threshold of deliberate bias . Just plain incompetence .
He should be allowed to have his say if the ref is shit. About time the refs get called on the ridiculous decisions they make. A lot of mistake are made and it is unforgivable that the ref gets away with it.
Should've gotten a hefty fine. Nothing will change unless WR starts hitting them where it hurts: their wallet. This attitude doesn't come from nowhere, it's brought about by the team's culture, and no one telling him he's wrong. Wouldn't be surprised if the coach is badmouthing the refs bts. If my dad had ever caught me speaking ill of the ref back when I was young he'd have whooped my ass.
Mack Hansen, like many other players, has been on both sides of the matter: sometimes, refs mistakes benefited him, sometimes, they did not. Mack has literally NEVER said a thing when he benefited from mistakes of the ref but was the first to start a witch hunt the moment things did not go as he wanted. The lesson here? Refs are human, make mistakes all the time and if players want to go out and trash talk them, at least, be consistent and not only when they lose. Trash talking refs like Mack did is terrible for the sport and sends the wrong message to kids starting to play rugby.
New punishment idea, he has to replace Busby as referee going forward.
That is a great idea!
How about serving his ban as a referee?
Busby is retiring as a ref apparently
Mack was caught in between a rock and a hard place. Say something, accept the fine and hope things change or stay quiet and don't seem bitter. He called it how he saw it! At least he was authentic. Post match interviews can be very robotic. The values of the sport are definitely to be cherished but it's hard to overlook total injustice!
The Barrett shoulder to Aki's head was blatant and everyone saw it, it was even replayed, the ref ignored the call to have a look at it and the TMO was either asleep or incompetent. I say all that as a die hard Leinster fan and have not heard any different from any other Leinster fan. Barrett should have got a red, but instead played on and and had a blinder of a match and without doubt saved Leinster's arse and got man of the match. Premiership refereeing is far superior, the URC really need to get the officiating in order.
The only other non bland Irish post interview of recent years, was John Hodnett’s man of the match interview after the 2022-2023 URC grand final.
Why are referrees so precious? The TMO can scrutinise a player's actions to the nth degree. But referees actions? It's all hush hush afterwards. Nobody ever accused Nigel Owens about being biased. Why? Beacuse he wasn't biased, not veven againt the Springboks back in the day when they were viewed as nothing but bully's. That new female Scottish referree runs a clean and livey game. Get more of her type!
I'm glad Nigel Owens is gone. He made every game about himself, always had to be the protagonist.
Maybe so but he was way more consistent than the reffs today@@PB22559
Not a big fan of that Scottish referee, but I agree with your point.
@@PB22559it was entertaining for a while but I'm inclined to agree, his posturing became so tiresome ultimately
Couldn't agree more
What happened to Du Pont in the last World Cup where in a press conference after their quarter final he called the ref a disgrace and went in hard on him?
Edit: I was wrong about this statement. DuPont did not in fact call Ben a disgrace in the press conference and wasn’t too scathing about his criticism what he mostly said was he felt SA got most of the 50/50 calls.
You just have to read how you spell Dupont to understand your nationality....
But if you like facts, here we go: Dupont never said "the ref was a disgrace" he said he didn't understand many France-SA decisions (O'Keefe also revealed it was his worst game ever afterwards). Which is very different with Hansen comments evoking a conspiracy between Leinster and referees, or Rassie 2h video directly attacking World rugby referees. But hey, it would not suit your mythomaniac narrative, isn't it?
@@zisssssou I’ve actually gone back and watched the post match press conference and DuPont didn’t call the ref a disgrace must’ve been Mandela effect on my part. He just said that he didn’t feel the ref was up to the level that he needed to be for the match and got some 50/50 calls more to the SA side than to his side. Not sure where I got the idea that DuPont called Ben a disgrace. For most part Fabian and Antoine was graceful in their post match press conference.
@@Zhorith So, you can erase your comment or decide to continue to get likes from the same old and lame Dupont haters.
@@zisssssou as if you haven’t made mistakes in your claim? You said Rassie made a 2 hour video directly attacking World Rugby. Wrong, twice. Well done.
1 hour video which coaching staff are entitled to making, and often make and send directly to World Rugby, raising questions about officiating and asking for clarification. This happens behind the scenes all the time. Just because you don’t know that it happens, doesn’t mean it’s something suddenly unusual. In the video Rassie brings up decisions and asks for clarity. This is not “attacking World Rugby” as you so hyperbolically state.
The question is not about the video being made and sent to WR, because all coaches do so. The question is about leaking the video to the public as Rassie may or may not have done directly. That’s still up for debate. But the video leaked while in his possession and that’s what he was punished for, not for making it.
So, you can delete your comment now and maybe consider coming down from your high horse. Fact is Dupont criticized the officiating and got no ban Hansen flat out attacked officials directly and in an official press conference and got a slap on the wrist and Erasmus got a 12 month ban for presumably leaking his communications between him and WR.
@greenplasticgun well, tat was 4 long and boring paragraphs, just to unfortunately confirm what most of Boks fans really are in 4 words: passionate but sick mythomaniacs.
Well the referee he had a pop at (Chris Busby) has announced his retirement today. At just 38 he should be at his refereeing peak it seems he is feeling like he hasn't been supported.
Yeah I forgot to mention that! It seems like it was personal reasons mainly but I'm sure this incident didn't help
@grahammccready2647 that is a problem with these incidents look how many refs retired because of these don't want it to be a trend
Was it just because of this incident?.
@@jackdeegan3617 No, it was coincidental, other reasons
@@jackdeegan3617 no but he said it was a tipping point. There is a lot of general abuse from fans. Fans have too many direct ways to send abuse at refs. When Wayne Barnes retired he revealed he had received death threats.
Its been proven empirically by research that teams that are higher ranked get better refereeing decisions than teams that are ranked lower. Its not confined to rugby but can be seen in soccer, Rugby League, etc. There is a strong psychological pressure on referees not to cost a "top" team a victory by making mistakes.
Yeah the refs are human so that's going to be a factor. That being said I watched that game and didn't expect that kind of reaction - the refereeing wasn't flash but I didn't think it was biased
Rubbbbbbish! What is the source of your "Empirical" research?
The ABs sure could've used some of those "better refereeing decisions" this year, lmao. What a load of nonsense.
@@icefarrow7959 you could argue that the Boks have benefited from that recently, including the last World Cup. maybe that's a sign the ABs are not as dominant as they used to be.
@@mickeencrua ahhh the old "Source?" argument
.. to which my reply is "Google it; im too busy to spoonfeed everyone".
Mack's comments were a bit of sore loser, however the specifics of the complaint are totally justifiable. A clear head shot on Bundi that wasnt reviewed at all by the team is ridiculous. And the touch judge reply when Mack asked him about it, more fucking ridiculous. He was talking about the big calls, not the 50/50 ones.
Busby has an unfortunate habit of making a snap decision, insisting he's right and refusing to review footage (either himself or by the TMO). However when he decides to review initally he will ad nauseum. His endless reviewing of the hit on Gus McCarthy and refusal to review the hit in Aki once left a very sour taste. He's done it in other games too this season - made a bad call and refuse to review. and it's getting attention. He's retiring now, blaming social media attention I understand. I wonder if there's more to it
I'm Irish and I understand where Mack is coming from but I can see why the refs need to be protected from these kind of comments. The refs do their best and they get things wrong because they are human and can't be seeing everything that goes in the game. I agree that 2 games would have been enough for this. He did not injure anyone physically. The maddening thing for Mack is that he was just coming back into his old form again. Now he will be rusty for the England game.
Do they do their best though? Perhaps consciously but I think a lot of subconscious bias comes into it when refs are reffing top teams.
In fairness in that Leinster v Connacht game i think its the TMO that needs to be reviewed, the only time he spoke up was when he got the ref to look at a hit on McCarthy that the ref said was nothing and the the TMO went into his shell and then the Barrett hit on Aki was never reviewed. It feels a little like TMO speak up either too much or too little, just need to find a balance where it doesnt affect the flow of the game but still highlights clear or dangerous incidents that need to be looked at.
I certainly agree that Hansen has to be banned. Stupid comments at the time. I feel slightly sorry for O'Toole as his 'clear out' is nowhere near as dangerous as Tolo Latu's cheap shot at a young player. Dirty and gutless.
Its Mack Hansen. Should anyone be surprised?
Hes an authentic, fun loving fellow with passion in him. And he really doesnt care. If refs can muck up calls, players can muck up press conferences. You only live once.
Besides, its a helluva lot more entertaining than the usual nonsense people talk about in those things. Normally after match conferences, win or lose, are sooooooo boring. Its the same 200 interchangeable rugo-speak words all teams use, cobbled together in different combinations to sound new. Please. Someone throw a pie 🥧
He's a loose canon. Pete Wilkins should have cut him short in that interview. Actually, he shouldn't have been included in that interview anyway. The whole ethos of Rugby revolves around respect for the Ref's decisions. Mistakes can be made. Ask yourself this question: Why did the IRFU recruit Hansen for Connacht rather than for Leinster?
So he shouldn't be surprised if he gets punished for not caring (and maybe shouldn't 'care' about any ban?)
Didn't Rassie get a year for someone else leaking a video he sent to WR in line with the WR referee feedback process?
✅
Totally correct!! The whole system is rigged in favour of UK and Ireland. Imagine what would have happened if an Argetinian, Italian or Figian player made the same comments!!!
Come off it man. I don't agree that it was right what Hansen has done and that i think he deserved a ban but to argue that the ban he got was too light and present evidence that is not comparable to what he has done. Give us a break.
The evidence you present is apples and oranges. You can't compare physical challenges to verbal outbursts. The outcome of the action has diiferent effects on the game. In similar scenarios of verbal outbursts as reported by various media outlets, it may be viewed that Hansen recieved a heavier punishment comapared to others.
Compare Johnny Sexton recieved a three game ban following his Champions Cup 2023 final altercation with Jaco Peyper. In a case identical to Sexton's, Black Lion forward Giorgi Tsutskiridze recieved a two game ban for his outburst against referee Kevin Bralley following his team's defeat to Scarlets in the 2024-25 EPCR Challenge Cup in December. In another similar case to that of Sexton, Cardiff head coach Matt Sherratt recieved a one game ban (with a further five suspended) due to his outburst against referee Mike Adamson, following his team's defeat to Ulster in April 2024. Cardiff were also given a suspended fine of just under €6,000 in comparison to Connacht’s €10,000. Incidently, Leinster were also fined, while Black Lions were not as part of their respected punishments. As reported by the media, the Welsh Rugby Union were not given any punishment for their response in this game where they published on their website "Cardiff were robbed of a win, after the TMO joined forces with the referee to disallow Theo Cabango’s late try which would have won the game".
In another case, following the URC final in June 2024, the Bulls head coach, Jack White, did not recieve any punisment when he claimed referee Andrea Piardi has a habit of letting away sides win and that Glasgow only won because Piardi was sympathetic to away teams. He said "It’s twice in a row now the referee has let the away side win, In fact, three times - last year Munster won in Cape Town, Glasgow won in Munster, we won in Leinster and this referee let the away team win so maybe next year I’ll ask when we play away that I want him to try ref us".
Also compare Antoine Dupont recieved no punishment following his outburst on referee Ben O'Keeffe in post match interview following France's defeat to South Africa in the Rugby World Cup 2023. While Rassie Erasmus was banned for a year following his outburst about referees (especially towards referee, Nic Berry) following the British and Irish Lions tour 2021. Not to forget, no punishment for Greig Laidlaw due to his comments against referee Romain Poite, following Scotland's defeat to Ireland in the Six Nations 2019, where he said “Frustrating things as well, Romain Poite picked us up in the middle of the field when Sean O’Brien has ripped the ball out and he’s given a knock-on and it’s right in front of him. He doesn’t seem to like us, Romain. He refereed us against South Africa as well and we don’t seem to see eye-to-eye. We’re not going to blame him, we look at ourselves and we give credit to Ireland.”
There are countless other examples I could have added, but the point is Hansen was punished, as was his club and more severely compared to many others of a similar nature. Comparing physical challenges to verbal outburst are not the same. The punishment must fit the crime. If there is any argument on the topic of punishment for verbal abuse of referees, as has been pointed out in the examples above, it is that there is no consistency in the punishment handed out for such offences.
I think although it’s a severe ban, and it’s not been applied evenly at all to all folks who complain about the ref, the level of impact on referees has been getting worse - see Wayne Barnes on TGTBATR pod talking about all the security measures and safety protections he and his family had to have for a long time. The same with Ben O’Keefe on a Rugbypass interview. I don’t mind it being a strong ban, if it’s applied to all, and bans make sense within all the other banned offences. It rings of the same issues with world rugby around having more coherent application of rules and regulations, in many aspects of the game sadly.
Why can’t you say it? If you feel a Ref has been the reason that you lost a game, it’s no harm to go and say it get it reviewed and come back with their findings. Nothing wrong and it would only improve the Refs. So he was correct, you take an awful load of hardship so yes you should be entitled to ask for a review. The Refs will improve also
Perhaps for the injury ban, the penalised player should be banned for the amount of time it takes for the injured player to recover. It would certainly make them think twice before doing anything egregious.
Good theory but how do you differentiate between intent and accident? More players get injured in the normal course of the game than they do from deliberate foul play.
@@dennism5731 If a player has injured another, I doubt World Rugby is going to care if it was intentional. Their emphasis is currently for players not to put others in a position of harm.
I think he was fine saying those incidents should have been looked at more, he overstepped the mark accusing the ref of bias and I think it's clear that is the bit that actually got him in trouble. If he (or his team) were really that concerned there are ways to go about it.
The thing is, refs and players are in a professional relationship and so should act accordingly. To torture an analogy, can you imagine having to turn up to work the next day after someone sent an all staff email accusing you of stealing from the office fridge without presenting any proof? That's what Hansen effectively did instead of going to HR like he should have and I think it's fair to expect that we shouldn't condone that.
Edit: I think we were going to adjust ban lengths, they should go up for player safety stuff. 3 weeks for Hansen down from 6 feels about right. Also think it was not a good look with how long it took to get this ruling, feels like he made those comments ages ago, should have been done and dusted much quicker.
Rassie got a year ban for talking about the ref so three weeks is nothing. 😅
Rassie is a coach not a player. In that Hansen interview he even points to his coach beside him and says “he’ll get in trouble if he says anything so I will”
The ref in question stepping down at the same time as the ban went out is not a good look for irish rugby. That really looks like there could have been some fishy business going on in the IRFU
I think the ref in question got a lot of abuse online, and that was before the Mack Hansen incident even. I don't think there is any fishy business here
@aonghus3860 yea the chances are there is nothing, but no irish derby should be officiated by a load of irish
He got banned for Connacht but not for Ireland - confirming that Connacht never get the calls?
As a Leinster fan who was at the game, I agree with him.
3 weeks seems reasonable to me, but I'm curious to know if there have been other comments about refs that have resulted in bans. I would think that dangerous play on field would be in a different category to post match comments, so it's hard to say whether Hansen's ban is in line with those examples.
Hansen moan like the guys that host the The breakdown show in New Zealand
On field "wrong" calls I can still comprehend and live with, but when TMOs get the calls "wrong", that is an unforgiveable sin and they should be gaoled for it 😀. I can understand the frustration of the players, but referees should be protected as they are only human after all. However, I feel that WR should sanction poor performances by officials, then players will less likely make public comments out of frustration.
100 %. There a lot in the video, The comments came from the right place . If Geordie Barrett was Carded,Connacht get to clear there line and go back up the field with a penalty and maybe could have got a losing bonus point, an apology from Mac and a person fine would be enough.The Ban! make a joke of the bans for more serious discipline issues. The fining of Connacht was €10,000 more than enough.
Love the channel keep up the good work .
Nice Connaught shirt. 👌
Connacht have some cracking kits aye
@@TwoCentsRugby Unlike Joe you spell Connacht correctly.
It wasn’t incorrect, it’s another way of spelling it.
He is available to play for the 6-Nations. As you said he was probably not even earmarked to play all games in the next few weeks. It is therefore effectively a 1 or two match ban. Very light in my opinion. I also question if a non-AlgloSaxonCeltic player would be treated the same?
Why has their been so little focus on the TMO, Mark Patton? He was the one who let down the referee. How and why was the Jordie Barrett clear out on Bundee Aki was not reviewed and shown to the referee?
The problem the game has is that no one knows what the outcome of a clear out like that will result in. The fact that the tmo did not bring this to the refs attention but was intent on showing him the connacht winger stepping across into a player that kicked through where the ref had said their was no issue and playing the clip till he produced a yellow card. (It possibly deserved a yellow card).
If rugby is serious about protecting the head area, head impacts like Barretts should be a minimum yellow card.
These yellow cards should result in the player being replaced after the ten minutes are up and taking no further part in the game. This would stop players making these clear outs.
Look, the standard of reffing is truly abysmal in the URC. Like stuff I've never seen before. But it's a slippery slopes when refs are being called out by players. Just can't do that in our game. We pride ourselves on respect in rugby.
Sounds like he let his emotions get the best of him. But in my opinion I think he got off lightly, referees are under enough stress without that.
Awww the poor refs can't handle criticism. You know how much players and coaches lose between mental health and monetary income based on referee decisions and now we are just like it's OK if the referee is crap because he's under stress.
Thanks Mark
I can tell you honestly 3/4 of Ireland are behind him. Most of us are sick of the blatant favouritism on display
Shut up whinging
A lot of Leinster man's (myself included) are also in his corner, absolute shitshow to ban him for being honest
But Rassie got a ban for over a year and 3/4 of you loved it.
But you all wanted Rassie's head. Okay...
@@greenplasticgunA bit different Hansen's was spur of the moment Rassie's was premeditated!
Can someone please direct me to video of Hansen referring to Busby as 16th man. I've watched the press conference and didn't see him refer to the ref directly at any point.
Rassie got banned for a year after his video to RWC during the B&I Lions tour (which was leaked by a RWC official).
This is the same as Sexton's ban before the world cup. So this would indicate that it is inline similar offences.
I suggest you read Gerry Thornley in Irish Times artical on Hansen ban this week ,a real eye opener regarding ref treatment of connacht ,mainly by irish refs ,also was mr busby and his retirement as a result of being left out of irish international ref panel also ban seems to punish connacht fixtures and not ireland
hansen was right though, maybe not doing it at the presser but its not the first time a ref and his team has bolloxed up calls in favour of the bigger teams and never have to answer for it
Doesn’t matter, when Rassie made his video it was something like 19 out of the 20 calls he pointed out he was right about, still got banned for a year
Ban time should be the same as the time out of the injured player
Having watched that match and rewatched the match since the ban I have to share my opinion.
So game where Hansen threw his tantrum was the Leinster Connacht christmas interpro where Leinster was penalised 15 times and Connacht was penalised 13 times. How can you think the referee was biased in a game where you were penalised less than the opponent.
In terms of cards there was 3 potential cards that weren't given.
1. Ioane with a high tackle. Penalty only. TMO was insistent on it being reviewed and rereviewed because he thought it was a card.
2. Barrett should have been red carded for the hit on Aki.
3. Josh Murphy should have been red carded twice in a single incident for throwing an elbow and Snyman's head and a punch.
Hansen has no scope to say that Connacht never get any calls and the game was like playing 16 players. He just had a temper tantrum in public.
Irishman here. Polynesian teams have been shafted by officials every rwc.
There is a process where teams can request clarification regarding refereeing decisions, that should feedback to the ref to improve things for future games. I like Hansen, but I'm with the ref on this one, it's a very difficult job to determine blame with utter chaos at breakdowns etc, they need to be strong and confident to be competent without public bitching from players and threats from the public.
If youre getting calls wrong as an international referee you need to quit, you have 2 assistants and 50 cameras to make the right call. People pay lots of money to watch their players in action and when a ref isnt up to par the whole game goes sideways. Refs SHOULD be punished for bad refereeing its their job. Imagine a player misses all their attempts at goal then doesnt get punished or criticized... refs need to uphold a standard
Good vid. Two things can be true at the same time as you say. Violence is different to dissent. And the officiating should be protected at all costs regardless of if they’re sh1t.
I hate to bring up football but if you let it go off the pitch you might see it creep onwards into the pitch.
The violent incident ones are deffo lenient esp the first one you mentioned.
We are going to end up with yes / no answers post game conference..... let people talk ffs
I think your missing point , Hansons argument was “Big clubs “seem to get the 50/50 calls more so than the smaller clubs .
@TwoCentsRugby was Rassie’s video after first British & Irish Lions vs Springboks test in 2021 worse than Mack’s recent rant and Sextons verbal attack on Jaco Peyper in 2023?
There was a guy on my team that got 12 weeks for saying, "f***ing bias," while walking away after a penalty. I just wonder why the disparity between top level players who know what they're saying and continue in a press conference after compared to one outburst in the heat of the moment, not even to the ref. I'd say what Mack Hansen did was definitely worse and deserves a longer ban
Was your teammate about to play for Ireland in their major international tournament ?
@@jamesgunn5103 Cynical.
Hansen was always a loose canon. Wilkins should be called out for allowing him to attend that press conference. When the IRFU recruited Hansen, why was he sent to Connacht rather than Leinster?
@@jamesgunn5103 well that’s just biased thinking
@@jamesgunn5103I don't think that should make any difference
I thought Hansen came across as a bad loser and maybe they could have picked another player for the interview. As a spectator I always say to my friends when going to matches that "your team" cannot rely on the ref to win you the game, the players must play within the laws and stay on the playing pitch for 80+ mins. Having said that, there are many occasions after a game were you leave scratching your head and wondering at some of the calls!🤔
As a Leinster supporter I think Mack had to be disciplined but I still love him anyway. He probably should have engaged his brain before his mouth, but the guy is a good player and a good fella too. I feel sorry for the referee though as he has resigned now. I'm sure he has his story too. I am glad Mack will be back for the Six Nations though as he seems to be coming into form now. I think its rubbish about other teams getting penalised more when they play Leinster. Leinster penalty count at the moment is quite high much to the displeasure of their fans.
Biloxi leinster get away with murder.
The ref resigned, really? Seems he wasn't cut out for the job then. Refs get abused by crowds throughout games, it's part and parcel of pro sport.
If someone can confirm or clarify, I have heard that referees are not allowed to publicly comment after games. That means they are not able to defend themselves from anything players, fans or RUclips commenters say. And they are the people who had the best view and actually know the Laws of the game. They are not allowed to prove that whatever is blowing up was actually refereed to the Laws of the game, and it was just the opposition outplayed our team at the time. So unless that changes, something needs to be done to protect them from the type of nonsense that MH spoke and has already been written below. And that is holding players to account when they disrespect the ref.
WRT to the ban and length of the ban, Dylan Hartley was red carded and banned for 11 weeks for calling Wayne Barnes a cheat in the middle of a game, when fatigue and emotions are more likely to cause poor decisions. MH effectively called Busby a cheat after the game, after he had time to cool down.
Based on that, he's lucky it's only 3 weeks.
I was always taught, once the final whistle went and you walked over the white line, you left your frustrations on the field. Don't like the outcome, train better, play better next time. MH has lost my respect whining like he did afterwards. Hopefully, he is able to show that this was just a once off, bad day sort of thing, and re-earn the respect of those like myself. Everyone makes mistakes after all, even referees.
What I hate. Is that these hearings are treated as if it was a court case over rape or murder. It’s a sport. IRB needs to get a grip of itself.
6 weeks for calling out a ref is black belt levels of "bullshido". How can we operate in an environment where players are measured by stats/outcomes and optics, the sponsors by investment and returns aswell as broadcasters reaching audiences and pumping out add revenues to particular markets to then go ahead and NOT measure referee impact OR allow them to quiet down a voice calling out imbalance in the game. 6 weeks is a joke. This isnt volunteer work, the refs get paid a decent wage they seemingly never go under the microscope and are protected like china dolls when something goes wrong and they are at the centre of it. Heat of the moment i get people making mistakes but there are trends when it comes to officiating and when you can wrap a referee up by knowing their own bias when it comes to refereeing a game with "Laws" and not interpretations its a joke. None of the aforementioned money driven entities go off of good faith "feeling" of what they see, its data driven so lets dive into these refs and see how much they hit and how much they miss.
Rubbish. There are procedures in place whereby Managers are facilitated in making feedback to Referee's organising bodies. A loose canon like Hansen should never have been allowed to attend a post-match interview. Wilkins was very remiss in allowing Hansen to cut loose like that.
6 weeks is nothing considering Rassie got a year
This is not just one game I've seen this, time and time again over the years I've seen this bias against connacht but I'm a fan. I'm pretty sure most teams fans worldwide would say the same..except Crusaders leinster saracens and toulouse who always get away with anything.
It's the rules that are unclear, not the referees who are unfair. The priority of rugby must be the development of the referee and the safety of the player.
Back in the dark ages when i played, refs blew the whistle, gave some sign language and the player's didn't expect anything of the ref other than rulings. Today, refs are on field coaches, directing players about whether they're onside, attached, go back round, you're off your feet, hands off, NO!, lost, etc, and all they get back is players yelling at them (TJP), questioning decisions, or shaking heads and hands in hips etc.
The AFL brought in a great rule. Any form of onfield descent is an automatic 50m penalty and the refs MUST enforce it.
Let the fans boo all they like, but get players respecting refs on the field again
That said, i lost money on Connacht a few weeks ago and seriously thought the ref was in on it 😠
But he has a point and you and see it in the poor discipline in the Ireland Team matches during the Autumn Tests..
You can’t tackle Dan Carter and Ya can’t criticise the Ref. Simple 😂
So when Antoine Dupount cried and blamed the ref for their quarter final loss he gets no sanction?
Hansen was 100% right and I support him fully
In rugby most referees are grossly incompetent and make blatantly biased decisions. When looking at the irish teams Leinster and Munster are clear favorites over the other 2 and get 9/10 of the 50/50 calls.
In international rugby that used to be the case with the ABs. A 50/50 call would occur and the ABs would get it 9/10 times. Its gotten a little bit better but it was completely disgraceful in the 2010s how blatantly they were favorited by refs.
World rugby and referees need to grow a fucking backbone and have a conversation about how unacceptable refereeing is in the game right now. This bullshit of "protecting referees" needs to stop ASAP because they should be criticized and grow from it and be better. Ive said it for at least 2 years now but if world rugby cracked down on referees and held them accountable for their crap performances then 90% of rugbys problems would disappear overnight. Its as simple as doing post match analysis and seeing what they did wrong and fineing them for bad performances. The second money gets involved all referees will suddenly improve 10×
So so frustrating for the player (hey, been there as a fan many times), but what I really really like about rugby so much, is that these things should be (and often are) settled behind closed doors. Didn't Ted get an award for keeping quiet post WC loss to France? Think of Steve Hansen's reaction to Ken Owens (on lions final test against NZ) obviously knocking on haha. Annoyed, but so damn respectful. It is what I really love about rugby, to be honest - the calm, reflectiveness. As a matter of fact, it is what really annoys me about football (the anger, hotheadedness, reactionary, etc.). Did Mack have a point? Yep, probably. Try and sort it out behind closed doors. I'm sure some of the refs are actually quite receptive (isn't that why Nige had such a good rep?).
Aye, I feel like 4 weeks reduced to 2 would make a lot more sense. I do think Connacht seem to get worse calls a lot but complaining to the media surely just invites more bad will from the referees in the long run.
Sad to see Chris Busby retiring after this incident. Hansen was way out of line. I agree it is one thing to say the referee was shit but it is a totally different thing to say he was biased.
I actually think this is much closer to Rassie's actions with the Lions than it is to the on field stuff.
When multiple referees are getting death threats on social media, and we are driving referees out of the game, I think 6 weeks is about right.
Someone on r/rugbyunion suggested that he be made referee a bunch of amateur games with the cameras rolling and then have him sit in a press conference with all the incidents he missed playing in the background. Probably be a better watch than the Six Nations doc on Netflix.
I was at the game. The first half officiating had some pretty bad calls against Connacht. I think Busby could be more upset with the officiating team he got at the Aviva that night.
The TMO missed the Barrat hit on Bundee which was very close to a red card. I can't see any mitigation, hit bundee's head with a tucked arm in from the side.
The TMO also was pain stakingly asking him to look at a potential head clash when he said he could see nothing much in it and just awarded a Penalty. Add in that he was on the other side for the scrum calls which were penalising Buckley when he didn’t seem wrong (lineman should have helped him) and linesmen gave him no support on offside.
I say he saw this at half time and the second half was a lot better.
Mac was frustrated too and called it out and Busby took the heat for what wasn’t really his fault.
I can see how Busby felt that it is not worth it… Refs inevitably get the flack for a team they didn't pick and might even trust.
As for the bias... It kind of work like this IMHO. The night was bitterly cold, There was about 30,000 Leinster fans compared to a couple thousand Connacht fans, it was intimidating place for officials. I say officials inconspicuously know that making a bad call on the home team would lead to overwhelming reaction, even tight calls tough... Some officials just get caught up in it and know the media reaction (which is generally Dublin based) and wanting the clicks or subscribers from the bigger population are also inconspicuously keener eye for injustices against Leinster. None of this should because of Leinster being the bad guy, they are just supporting there team.
My suggestion is that derbys should have Refs from out of the country...
Mac reacted wrong. Busby deserved a team that was less influence by occasion. IMHO
connacht always get screwed
I think chris busby is a very bad reff but alot of the major issues was down to the TMO team being terrible
@@foxliam10 Honestly I thought Chris had good second half, TMO was scary bad on the night and special mention to the linesman on the far side from me who said nothing about the Buckley scrum penalties which were wrongly given aganist him and the total lack of enforcement of the offside line...
The offside line was 2 yards out in a few cases...
Connacht prefer a well policed offside line as it allows them more space for their backs. They need that because usually they are the lighter team.
Also, want a good entertaining game of rugby, set down markers early doors on the offside line and be consistent... It makes for way better rugby... Frank Murphy is one of the worst for policing it... It gets so bad that eventually he ends up randomly picking a side.... This is where I think linemen should be heavily evaluated individually.
I would also suggest that maybe refs should be allowed to pick there officiating team (especially at URC level). Refs are ask to play with possible unknowns every week. I would suspect that this could have been Chris Busby issue.
I think it's time we asked why is it "weeks" rather than games? Then, do the offenders know when 3 weeks isn't important.
Hansen is right, Leinster is Dublin and Dublin is Ireland. People seem to forget we have another 31 counties on the island
The actual final punishment is a joke and absolutely ridiculous. Speaking entirely about the lack of consistency and transparency on punishments dished out for this exact transgression, even comparative media hype between different transgressors, from different nations and seriously, that convenient suspension of 3 weeks of the ban, and how fits the rugby calender...
Come on
Ask any South African about Bryce Lawrence helping NZ to win there second WC by blowing out all there legitimate competition.The analysis of his calls did not track with his Super Rugby calls and he was then made NZ ref of the year. The point is that there are refs that are poor or biased and the players should be allowed to call them out
Hansen argument is that biased reffing is institutionalised ie. Has been happening over years. Ireland is a highly provincial place and you will even hear Munster supporters using the word hate to describe feelings towards Leinster which is strange for an outsider to understand. Perhaps it is spillover from the highly competitive GAA which is contested at the county level- not sure though, but definitely interprovincial animosity I’ve not seen elsewhere
Closest thing we have here is people who talk about the Crusaders "always getting the calls" etc.
Back when Auckland was on top of the provincial game, there was a kid in Canterbury spotted with a sign he'd made saying "I hate you Auckland"
Dunno if that would fly these days!
I think comparing it to clean out bans is somewhat irrelevant. Rugby has tried incredibly hard to cultivate an atmosphere of respect for refereeing. Both during the game and after. The fact that Hansen said this rant in the immediate official media briefing after the game is about as bad as it could possibly get. The unfairness in this ban is in comparison to Dupont saying the referee was not up to standard (shit) in the French quarter final exit. It was a terrible thing for him to say in that moment after an incredible game of rugby. World Rugby should have sanctioned Dupont for that comment. Rugby is on a slippery slope with refereeing and the players need to stand up and protect what is essentially an important part of the game. Sorry Mack.enjoy your rest.
The refereeing in the URC is awful, and he is entitled to be annoyed about it, but players can't be saying things like that to the media... people who are backing him up clearly don't understand that there are knock-on affects that go outside of the game and ruin peoples personal lives, and that shouldn't be allowed to happen.
what about free speech?
I think it's fair. It's hard to compare this against an illegal play and agree with you that the sentences should be higher for a dangerous play that has led to a serious injury. While the post-match interviews would be highly entertaining and my god I wish some of the coaches and captains of the team I support had said something, I don't think tirades against referees is a good for the game. Dupont banging on about the ref in the quarter-final is the best example, they should have thrown the book at him, it was disgraceful! But hey it's the poster boy Dupont so we nest keep him happy...
The Irish: "Rassie's head must roll. A year ain't enough. We must protect the officials. Outrageous!"
Also the Irish: "Hansen was totally right, we're behind him, refs are cheating!
Mate, why are you comparing dangerous foul play to ref bashing? Compare ref bashing with ref bashing. If we did it would be 1 year for Rassie, nothing for Dupont and 3 games for Hansen. Make it make sense.
On one hand I understand his frustration. I don’t agree with his assessment of the refs, but the Irish club structure clearly favors one team. The system is built on having one hegemon club, the cohesion of which then translates to the national team. So, yeah, it must feel like an uphill battle.
On the other hand, reckless stuff like this lights a fire under the online ref abuse.
And unlike stars like Hansen, who have the adoration of fans and neat retirement fund, the refs have normal jobs, do the reffing on their spare time, and get inordinate amount of abuse for their trouble.
I’m truly disappointed by the degree of sycophantic support Hansen gets from the ex-player pundits, especially from Ireland.
And don’t get me started with the: “The degree of refereeing needs to improve!”
How? By miracle? By the force of a wish? By applying more heat and online bullying online?
The older I get, the less patience I have with the ref bemoaning mentality. What a childish notion.
Yes, the refs do make mistakes (they’re human, duh). But to think, that they they go through all the grief only to intentionally bend the game is mind-numbingly dumb imho. The refs are the truest fans of the game. They serve the game. And their reward is an army of know-nothings abusing them, and telling them how evil and corrupt they are.
I love rugby, but I’d never be a ref.
Hmm interesting. Rugby had traditionally prided itself on respect for refs and similar values, but I have noticed a change in behaviour. A small example of this is whenever there is head contact, a player will stay down to ensure that this is picked up by the cameras, and indeed there has been so much pressure on refs (Rassie perhaps?) that refs are applying the letter rather than the spirit of the laws and everything gets double checked.
All that being said, we now live in what looks like a post modern world where words spoken or printed seem to be punished more heavily than actual physical violence, which doesn't seem quite right to me.
I would love to see more common sense applied, even if it leads to less consistency, and a return to the ref being the sole arbiter of fact (even when he is wrong!)
It has never been a player's role, or right, to publicly criticise the officials. He got banned for breaking the rules. The powers that be needed to make a stand on this issue. Otherwise...?
People who are stupid and have to attack the referees at any level of the game is complete bs. I'm a rugby fan in general and also a sportsnut in general and the referees are still people, so they need to be treated with respect and dignity
Personal it was a fair ban I Personal think the irfu didn't want another player banned for 6 nations matches I do think refs need to be help to what went talking smack about the ref doesn't help
Sounds like a fair ban to me - anything that challenges the authority of the ref should be punished hard IMO.
Difficult to compare it to bans for foul play as it's such a different type of event. It maybe better to look at this ban with reference to Cheika's ban for 'disrespecting a match day doctor' (2 weeks) in one of his first matches in charge of Leicester or Rassi's video post the Lion's game. Didn't Sexton also get a ban for something post-match?
P.S. Thought Tizzard was lucky to only get 6 weeks.
One outburst doesn't make Mac a looney tune, and one bad reffed match doesn't make a substandard refeŕeeing profession. Let's keep pespective!
Given Ireland is Leinster in green how will he be received in the national team going forward…even if he is selected again
Leinster had 14 penalties and 2 yellows. Meedia and soccer fans newly arrived to rugby creating a storm. For me Hansen was overboard, and now ref has gone. Not the values I have been brought up to in a half century in rugby . Nor my DAD'S who played his first match 76 years ago.
It went something like this…’hey mate we need Matt for the six nation so can we make the ban a bit a bit shorter’ Sure, no problem
I think Barrett should have received a red after the dangerous clear out with Aki. Player safety was poor in that situation and the ref should be reviewed..
Yeah 100% - although that was one call among many in that game
It's nonsense to think that refereeing performances should be off limits in rugby. Yes they should be treated with respect on the field which they are, but to create an environment where refs decisions can't be questioned at all or you'll be punished, is like some weird dictatorship. When the final whistle goes it's too late and the result is posted having massive effect on clubs finances and standings for the next season. Mack gets a match ban and Connacht get a fine to make an example and silence players speaking out in the future. It's sad
I think it is mostly TMO's that are the issue rather than ref's.very hard for refs to see everything during a fast game
Touch judges could be a bit more proactive .just my opinion.
Hansen was a loose canon before he came to Connacht. He was tolerated as such in the Connacht setup. He has been tolerated within the Irish setup for too long. He is a liability. We're not that badly stuck for wingers that we have to tolerate his antics. Chris Busby, or any other Ref, shouldn't have to consider retirement in these circumstances. Good Refs are hard come by. Ireland wingers are plentiful.
wrap it in mate. busby retired for personal reasons. stop making things up. fake news nonsense!
@@DAGATHire My opinion, MATE! I'm not making things up. Regardless of the reason for Chris Busby's retirement, Hansen is still a loose canon. Connacht management is at fault here for allowing this mouthy individual to take a press sitting. "Fake news" ??? I don't understand that one. MATE.
@@mickeencrua if your opinion is out in the public stating things that are NOT TRUE then its not only fake news its in fact lies.
Furthermore calling lies an opinion doesn't change the veracity of the lies does it Mate.
I thought that the world had learnt about slagging the ref from Rassie being banned a few years ago.
Telling the ref what an A/hole he/she is cannot be compared to players deliberately injuring an opposing player.
In ☝🏻 instance the ban should be until the injured player returns to full training. If not, then 50% of his match fee must go to the player who now is unable to earn a living.
Without generalising......
The URC refs are not up to standard. And world rugby knows it.
Was he wrong? Yes, buuuuut it was refreshing to see a player just go off the rails rather than reading off the same old script.
Imagine this happening to Leinster..Sexton affair some years back ?
Dont complain, don't explain. There are channels for ref feedback, look at the abuse that refs get when players/coaches go off-piste, Wayne Barnes, Nigel Owens, Ben O'Keefe to name but a few recent examples. If we dont want the game to go down the route of football with arguing and simulation, we have to accept that not everything will be perfect but otherall most of the time, the better team will usually win
He should have shut up and said, "Great job ref" anyone saying different doesn't understand the impact of him calling out a ref (even though he was right) on kids playing rugby at the weekend. Maybe the commentors have never played the game. Rugby has always been about respect towards the ref right or wrong. Anyone saying different is wrong and wants a different game. As has been said, this ain't soccer, and I don't want it ever to be.
All employment contracts outlaw negative comments about your employer or employer operations . Professional sport personalities are no different . Just shut it and let supporters deal with decisions . Some of the refs in URC are absolute crap but I doubt if it reaches the threshold of deliberate bias . Just plain incompetence .
Dupont didn't even get a slap on the wrist
Wat about Anton Dupont in rugby world cup France vs south African
He should be allowed to have his say if the ref is shit. About time the refs get called on the ridiculous decisions they make. A lot of mistake are made and it is unforgivable that the ref gets away with it.
Agreed. "Stick and stones..."
Mack is 100% correct in what he said , leinster get everything here in Ireland, so unless you live here you know nothing.
Does Justin Trudeaux need to resign from ruling rugby too? Refs are not ACCOUNTABLE! Disgusting
I agree with you!
Should've gotten a hefty fine. Nothing will change unless WR starts hitting them where it hurts: their wallet. This attitude doesn't come from nowhere, it's brought about by the team's culture, and no one telling him he's wrong. Wouldn't be surprised if the coach is badmouthing the refs bts. If my dad had ever caught me speaking ill of the ref back when I was young he'd have whooped my ass.
Yeah I think Connacht got a fine but not sure if Hansen himself got one - it's definitely a quick way to change behaviour
Mack Hansen, like many other players, has been on both sides of the matter: sometimes, refs mistakes benefited him, sometimes, they did not. Mack has literally NEVER said a thing when he benefited from mistakes of the ref but was the first to start a witch hunt the moment things did not go as he wanted. The lesson here? Refs are human, make mistakes all the time and if players want to go out and trash talk them, at least, be consistent and not only when they lose. Trash talking refs like Mack did is terrible for the sport and sends the wrong message to kids starting to play rugby.