Show us the link to that explanation from Lucas. Palpatine showed Mace Windu all corners until he knew Anakin was coming. What defeated person would have such a remaining strength to use this powerfull force lightning and push Mace Windu dozens of meters outside the building. I like Mace Windu, he should have had more action in the movies but he was no match for Palpatine.
Mace would win. He was simply more powerful. Remember, George Lucas said that Mace defeated Sidious. It wasn't a "fake fight", as the maker of this film implied.
I think mace would have won the lightsaber duel...But I think Qui Gon Jinn was more connected with the force and that's why he was the one able to find the way to immortality through the force and taught it to Yoda and Obi Wan as I think the movies implied. That makes Qui Gon Jinn more powerful in my mind :)
Mace Windu was so gifted in the force and so powerful, that the jedi thought he was the chosen one (And that was when he was a Padawan. At this age he was more powerful than some MASTERS)
I think qui gon would win cause when mace brats him and kills him he would be a force ghost and we see that yoda can do things in the real world while being a ghost in part eight 🙃 I hope you can understand me im still learning english :)
I think Qui Gon was a more powerful Jedi in the sense that he understood the force better than Windu. He was able to keep his spirit and mind together even after death and manifest himself in the force, something that was considered impossible to most Jedi.
So did Obi-Wan. Mace windu is probably the most gifted force user in Jedi history. Not only was he mastered in the light of the force but was so proficient in his mastery of the dark side he could use the enemy dark side force against them.. channeling both sides of the force he created his own fighting style. Vaapad. Using both sides of the force is why his saber is purple.. blue+red=purple mace was a different fighter and force user
@@hardknocks5077 He was very talented but Luke takes that win then Yoda then definitely Mace and afterwards probably Revan or Anakin IDK either way either way he was a fairly strong Jedi (Qui Gon).
Nope Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu. They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress. Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ev
@@jaimaavaishno-devi Not really since he would have killed Darth Sideous had it not have been for Anakin interfering with there duel all the Jedi you named can’t compete in that level therefore notating at that point in time he was stronger then all of them since some of the Jedi you mentioned were killed by Sideous himself right before that moment.
Exactly, and the author keeps bringing up the fake theory Sidious threw the fight. That is very idiotic. A sith lord putting himself at the mercy of a Anakin who had just betrayed him to the Jedi Order, and who might just as easily allowed Windu to kill him? Nonsensical. Windu defeated Sidious.
@ Dirty Harry Mace won.... even Lucas confirmed it himself on the DVD and its in the novelization ... he (Mace) used Vaapad which used the dark force against its opponent... the more Sidious channeled the dark side, the more of the upper hand Mace got...
I think sidious underastemated Mace and was confused that mace got stronger diuring their fight i think the Balance of Power was like this 1. Mace=Sidious evidence both are testing their streghts 2. Mace>Sidious sidious is backing up almost all of the time hedding back or standing in one place 3. Mace>>sidious sidious on the flor beging vor merci
I'm agree with you except for one thing: Palpatine didn't lose on purpose... Mace actually won... and if you have a doubt about it, then see the revenge of the sith novelization (which is canon) or hear George Lucas speech which confirms this. Basically Mace won thanks to Vaapad, which uses the dark emotions (like anger, despair, and so on) to empower the user. Mace got ultra powerfull during that fight, but the emotions didn't come from Sidious (who is aware of how Vaapad works and was able to supress his emotions), but from Anakin, who would make Windu stronger and stronger as he came closer to the fight. That's why Mace won, and it was a legitimate victory. However, Mace was so focused in killing Palpatine that his shatter point ability didn't show him Anakin's betrayal.
It is the old story again and again. Show me the explanation of George Lucas saying Windu would have won. Books are from various writers, not really 100% having to do with the movies. If they like Mace Windu they say he would have won. Palpatine was waiting for Anakin, that was his plan, showing Anakin he might loose. Anakin needed Palpatine to save Padme from the death he saw in his dreams. What defeated man does have that much remaining power to force lightning Mace Windu and after that throwing him out of the window by dozens of meters.
+Ton Postma And Palpatine also melted his own face with his force lightning being reflected back at him on purpose? I'm not buying it. Palpatine was overall more powerful, but in that particular fight, Mace's style gave him enough of an edge to best him.
Yeah he actually did let that happen on purpose. That was actually his true Sith form and used the "injuries" as an excuse to finally reveal it. It also prompted Anakin to see the old man in "despair". I remember reading somewhere that it was canon.
I think they could've been good influences on each other if they actually had conversations (as equals) about the Force and balance without lives immediately on the line.
Mace: Are you sure you want a duel? Qui-Gonn: Yes a full out brawl no holding back, a fight between two master jedi whose wisdom and power are spoke of across the known galax- *Mace uses shatterpoint*- ow my back! Mace: Is something wrong? Qui-Gonn: Yes, I can't feel my legs. There is something wrong with my spinal cord. I think I have been paralyzed. Mace: Do you still want that duel? Qui-Gonn: Of course not, take me to Yoda now!
rsbandbj1 Mace Windu's use of Shatterpoint would be too vague and inconsistent to be a game-changer, as he has rarely made use of it to great effect, in combat, with the exception of his duel with Darth Sidious, which is irrelevant, because he had a very circumstantial speed/power amp, at the time.
not how shatterpoint works, shatterpoint is the ability to perceive weaknesses in objects events or opponents, the ability to injure a target by exploiting its shatterpoints was called force breach, and just because one can see shatterpoints does not mean one can use force breach. Windu was never shown to use force breach, only see shatterpoins. EDIT: also vapaad is close to useless against light side opponets Meli, the reason vapaad is so op is that it can use an opponents rage agaisnt themselves, which would not happen against a light side opponent, no, his best bet would be to use soresu and let Qui- Gon tire himself out, then kill him
You had me until you said Mace did not beat Palpatine...he certainly did and without monologueing lost that fight George Lucas himself said only two Jedi alive could fight Palpatine and win...though Qui Gon was already dead i don't think he would have stood a chance against Dooko much less Mace Windu or Palpatine or Yoda
I agree. Only Mace and Yoda were on his level for a competitive duel at that point in time. I'm also not buying that Palpatine was just toying with Mace or believe Palpatine would have melted his own face on purpose in the process.
Alex You're right. George Lucas did confirm that Mace Windu legitimately disarmed Darth Sidious, of his lightsaber, but Darth Sidious still was not defenseless. Toward the final part, he was, in fact, overpowering Mace Windu, with Force-lightning and could have chosen to kill him, right then and there, but didn't, to see Anakin Skywalker's reaction.
I agree but I think its because he's basically the greatest duelist in the modern U. This is just speculation by me but I think Qui-Gon was stronger in the force, he was the first to master becoming a force ghost and broke through and wound up teaching Yoda who in turn taught Obi.
But Qui Gon Jinn has "a very particular set of skills he have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a nightmare for people like Mace."
Nope Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu. They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress. Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ever.
Don't use age as a negative. For a Jedi (or even a force user in general), age is an advantage. As one ages, one's connection to the Force grows. This more than makes up for the physical effects of age.
Age does effect them. From what I read and understand Qui-Gon knew he couldn’t keep up with Maul as his stamina was simply running out. Yes the force kept him going but I’m the end he was getting tired and this concerned him during the fight with Darth Maul.
it strengthens the connection the force but your body gets weaker. this is why yoda lost to sidious. after force valor run out he was to weak to continue
CocoaNutCakery i agree except the force can keep him going but over time he looses stamina just like red bull or kind of like sugar u have a lot of energy but over time it runs out. and u get slower but I still believe qui gon's stronger
He was better than Yoda! Vapaad was specifically designed to make the user stronger based on how dark their opponent was. Yes, Yoda could fuck a hoe up with Ataru, he was could only go for a limited time. Sidious knew this and kept his distance their entire fight because of this. Once Yoda realized he was tired, he retreated knowing Sidious was about to murder him. Vapaad, is designed to redirect the energy of the person Mace is fighting so he never has to use his own.
I would say sparring contest* purely for sport and training they would be equals at least. because both qui gon and windu showed aggressive fighting techniques in their duels
Man, that would be *extremely* close. Windu's Vaapad would be pretty much the only deciding factor here to give him the win - if not for Vaapad Maul would win.
Qui-Gon lost to Maul because he got hit in the face with the handle of the double sided lightsaber which stunned him and Maul took him out before he recovered. With having to defend against doubled blades he was constantly having to swing his blade left and right which left him unprepared to defend getting hit in the face with the handles of the double blade. If Maul only had one blade I'm not sure if he would've been able to defeat Qui-Gon.
If you're looking for animators, but it's because it's too expensive, why not open a patreon account to help pay for them? You have more than enough subs to start that.
Nope Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu. They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress. Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ever.
Qui Gon Jin is underrated like Liam Neeson I don’t think they should have killed him off in the first movie he had so much potential but they killed him off I would have loved to see more of his character evolving. Would you not like to see that? I’m sure I would.
The consensus seems to be definite that Mace Windu is more powerful and would win... ...I think that the fight is closer than people assume. 1) Darth Maul was an insanely skilled swordsman. The Clone Wars cartoon shows him holding off Palps for a short while, and he was trained from birth to be the ultimate warrior. I would argue that Maul was near or equal to Mace Windu in terms of lightsaber skills. Despite this, Qui-gon still held his own for quite a while. 2) Qui-Gon's style of choice was severely limited in the area where he and Maul were fighting, preventing a lot of the wide-acrobatics that make form 4 as deadly as it is. 3) Although Mace Windu did beat Palpatine fair and square, his Vaapad gave him advantages that other Jedi would not. Essentially he was a water type going up against a fire type. 4) We never got to directly see Qui-Gon in his prime. He was older and clearly didn't have the stamina to fight long term by the time he dueled Maul. Honestly, I think that Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, and Count Dooku are all around the same level as each other. In their respective prime capacities, and duels between the three could go any way. But in the end, I think that Windu had the edge in Lightsaber combat, while Qui-Gon had a stronger understanding of the Force. So while Qui-Gon was the better Jedi, Windu was the better warrior. But, that's just me.
I'd say Qui-gon was probably more knowledgable with the force but I think in a contest of lightsaber fighting and ability to use the force, mace windu would crush him every single time.
Qui-gon was a great Jedi in terms of philosophy and spirituality, but he just didn't seem to focus too much on combat. Which is fair enough considering there wasn't much need for it until the Sith reappeared and a war began. Mace Windu was a powerhouse in comparison when it came to combat ability.
Seems like the Stupendous Wave and you guys are the only 2 reputable Star Wars theory sites left on RUclips. Considering that there is hundreds of theory sites out there explains why you both don't have more subscribers then you do. Keep up the good work
Oshura yoda was very old you saw him in Star Wars attack of the clones he can absorb the energy and send it back he couldn’t do that anymore because he lost his power
I have to agree with your outcome, although Quigon Jin is my favorite jedi (with Kit Fisto a close second). Mace Windu is just such a powerful jedi when it comes to combat. I see Quigon Jin as more of a philosopher that explores the force than one who focusses on the militaristic side of it.
and anakin never was the most powerfull, he has highest milichlorian number, but as we see in ROTS his fore punch was equall to obi's, windu, yoda, and probably some other masters would ragdoll him with easy
I'd like to just call you out on this as 100% wrong at 5:05 the expression on Mace Windu's face while reflecting the force lightning actually show's how much darkside power Palpatine was using at the moment, further his disfigurement during the scene is from OVERUSE of the darkside which has been proven by ANCIENT SITH LORDS to rot your body and is a sign of great strength in the darkside. It is most typically seen in the Sith eyes. Plainly put as long as Palpatine was using the darkside and Windu using Vaapad, you'd likely see Mace come out on top, as Form VII is the strongest form of lightsaber combat even declared by Yoda.
J. José Rivera Torres well in his alternate story Windu couldn't control his ability and his combat style (number 7) Vaapad was too dangerous for Windu to contain it and got possessed by the hatred that the dark side gave him
I had the pleasure to meet and ask Pablo Hidalgo a question during comic con chile, last sunday, and I ask him if the way Qui Gon understood the Force was the most balance way and he answered me "yeah, I think so. He was like the perfect jedi"
Same here. In episode 3 Yoda acknowledges Qui-Gon's accomplishments after his death. He taught Yoda how to become a force ghost. Now that is infinite knowledge , and knowledge is power.
Doesn't matter how wise he is. Mace Windu would kill him. Mace Windu is the best duelist in the Jedi Order no single Jedi or Sith could face him in single combat.
I agree that Jinn is underrated (criminally so in fact) but how in the hell is Windu underrated? If anything, he's overrated. That being said, Windu would win in a fight without a doubt. I don't see what Jinn is bringing to the table that would allow him to even match leave alone beat Windu.
Gabriel Carrasco This is true. Even though he was labelled a Grey Jedi by many due to his disagreements with the High Council, he was actually a better Jedi than most during his era. He may not have been as powerful as Yoda and Windu but he was, in my opinion, a better Jedi.
I do like your videos. I liked this one too. Lots of detail about the Jedi. I was a bit surprised you didn't talk more about the match up. I agree mace would win, I don't think anyone thought you were gonna say kwi Gon, but how, why? mace's style would be less effective since there would be very little dark side to pull from. what about height? would mace end it quickly or tire him out? still a good video. keep them coming.
If they change everything about Star Wars now I won't follow the franchise... And I'll tell everyone I know to stop following it...Because Disney Star Wars Sux!!! And I think Star Wars movies should only b made by George Lucas.
A huge advantage of Windu is his Shatterpoint ability, but it wouldn't really work when going against Qui-Gon. Shatterpoint is about absorbing the enemy's dark side energy, turn it into your own, then use it to fight back. But Qui-Gon isn't a dark side guy, nor do I think he would ever be.
Mace wins hands down for me, its not a question. Mace ability with the lightsaber is 2nd to none. Its actually stated by Master Yoda, that Mace mastery of his fighting style, Yoda stated that 1 on 1 Mace could never be defeated, because he used this style to harness his opponents energy and strengths against themselves, actually drawing on them. Yoda did not state it was only sith but anyone. Therefore based on Yoda, He could go against sidious one on one in a duel and best him since Sidiouds use of the dark side would only empoer Mace,. Although force powers give the advantage to Sidious. So for me its Mace, just based on what Ive read and my opinion.
Order 66 never goes through, the Separatists have no leadership with Sidious, Dooku and Grievous all dead, Republic wins the war, peaceful galaxy, Leia and Luke join the Jedi Order.
Qui gon was the original force ghost. Lucas states that his training was incomplete because he can not afford liam, originally he was the first full fledged force ghost and the power of force ghost are unparalleled. They can change physical world, can look in the past and future, can hit anyone with their body and can even sence emotions and smell of organisms and object. What can Mace do in front of force itself.
I can't wait to see a SW spinoff about Qui-Gon! The story of Tahl, and something on Xanatos, and an interesting role for Liam Neeson waits for filming!
@@Alexander-dz3tf But Vaapad works in a different way, the user (Mace) would draw the dark side energy from the opponent (eg: Palpatine) and use it for his advantage, but Quigon is pure light side so it wouldn't be so effective like it did with Palpatine.
@@guru8104 And? The question isn't who would win in a duel, the question is who is more powerful, and while Qui Gon was wiser, he was certainly not more powerful.
@@guru8104 Yes Vaapad is a power that Mace has yet not Qui Gon and therefore I conclude he is stronger. Mace isn't gonna be battling light side users, so your point holds no merit.
I'm not sure about your editing choice. I understand you wanted to compare them on each point, but I was listening to your analyse will doing something else and, without my entire attention (and your visual aids), I had difficulty knowing which one you were talking about. It's going back and forth between each Jedi that confused me. Your video is still very good and I enjoy your channel a lot.
Yoda>WIndu>Skywalker(ROTS era)=Obiwan > Ashoka> Luke (ROTS) = Quigon --------> my ranking of light side fighters. Of course Luke in the Mandalorian was probably stronger than he was in ROTS and was closer to Anakin's level in the Clone Wars era.
lordaizen66, I know that but if he was on the council Mace Windo is still would have been second in command so that means he would is still better then Qui-Gon-Gen
CyberTheBoss - CyberSurvivor44 Watching Account, first of all do not say the Lord thy God in vain, 2nd of all you could be nice about it, and third of all I didn't no how to spell council.
Qui Gon is underrated because he lost to Darth Maul, but he only lost to Maul due to many circumstances going against him. He was old, aging and fighting an extended battle with Maul who had potentially the best stamina of any Jedi or Sith. The battle then shifted to close quarters, which put Qui Gon as a major disadvantage given his fighting style. Before the battle became close quarters, Qui Gon did seem to have the advantage against Maul, who himself was in his prime and incredibly powerful. It would have been awesome to see more of Qui Gon, he was my favorite character in episode 1.
IMO Mace is the most powerful Jedi ever. The 3 strongest are easily him Yoda and Luke. Mace is the most powerful because he was the only one to actually beat Sidious.
Seems like you know your stuff, but might I suggest, give all the facts about one character, then all the facts about the opposing character, then give a breakdown of how those facts prove who might win. It would make the video easier to follow. Great narration!
in the cannon novelisation of revenge of the sith it's made clear mace is at least gaining ground on him until anakin intervenes. but in the films it definitely looks that way.
Mace won.... even Lucas confirmed it himself... he used Vaapad which used the dark force against its opponent... the more Sidious channeled the dark side, the more of the upper hand Mace got...
Definitely disagree with this. Palpatine could not have known that Anakin would show up when he did if at all let alone intercede in the fight. He would not risk his life just to turn Anakin. Sidious is a sociopath with zero compassion for others and an overriding ambition for total domination. Someone like that would not risk their life for someone else, even for Anakin Skywalker. Mace won fair and square.
You've got great videos man :) I enjoy watching all of them ;) I've got a question though - can anyone point me to the music in the background? I really like it :)
I got a fun fan fiction/alternate history idea: Quigon doesn't die in Episode 1, he trains Anakin Himself, and together they fulfil Anakin's prophesied destiny of restoring balance by leaving the Jedi order (which Quigon already believed was deeply flawed) and founding a new league of grey Jedi. The Sith fall, the Jedi disband or join the grey Jedi, and balance is restored to the force.
Guys, guys, guys, I was just thinking, what if, Palpatine (of all people) was the Chosen One? Think about it. Even though Anikin was "the chosen one" reffered to in the prophecy, who became Emporer. The Jedi had not let the Sith thrive in YEARS. Anikin was just a pawn. Sidious actually brought balance (Not peace, of course he is butthole).
I feel like this discussion was focused more on dueling than on the overall strengths of both characters. Based on the movies, it's pretty clear that Mace Windu was the stronger duelest due to Vapad and his experience in the clone wars. His accomplishment was being one of the best duelests that almost defeated Sidious. Qui Gon was an underated yet good duelest, but his strength was more of that he followed the living force and could see things that Mace and the other Jedi could not. His accompishment was that he saw that Anakin was the chosen one even though nobody beleived him, he was the first force ghost, and that he would have been the one who would've seen the rise of the sith coming had he not been killed off. I'm posting this 4 years after the video was published and I've seen other videos from this channel talking about these strenths of Qui Gon and Mace, so the topic has already been covered.
don't forget gin was learning to become one with the force and like obi in a new hope part of them is in the process of becoming immortal (force ghosts( so when gin was fighting maul this was already in process hence him being weaker then in his younger days. Just to your other points! Great vids btw!
Great video . What's the name of the music during the first 2 minutes . Thanks . Can you do a video what if Qui Gon survived and went on to serve on the Jedi council during the clone wars?
Nobody ever brings up what if Qui Gon threw the fight with Darth Maul so that he could become immortal with the force he was the first to become a spirit Ghost he trained Yoda how to use that form then Obi Wan learned from Yoda. We yet have to see Mace Windu as a spirit Ghost or any other Jedi. It was never explained how Darth Vader learned how to become a spirit Ghost by the time Yoda and Obi Wan learned that technique Vader was in the dark side so nobody with that knowledge could of teached him because only the Jedi Yoda and Obi Wan knew about it..
in phantom menace qui gon's fighting skills had been cut down quite alot. clearly qui gon's death had been the catalyst to obi wan taking the trials and anikan becoming a padawan. in many ways it seems pretty clear there are a number of ways qui gon can take master windu down however in other ways it seems more as a draw because there is so much that qui gon could have done to weaken maul then ultimately defeat him which would have changed siddious plan to building the empire.
Man..I wonder what would've happend if Mace was sensing Ani's intentions (or at least sensed his innver 'devil') and blocked his saber ATK..? Presumable scenario is that With Sidious disarmed, Mace would basically duel Ani on h2h, and I can see clearly of, using Ani's anger Mace beating him with ease. Then probably expelling Ani from the Jedi Order → Ani becoming a Sith eventually?
I feel like it’s Jinn tbh. Form 7 was generally useful against dark not light side users as the Council probably wouldn’t teach anti-light forms. I definitely know Jinn was more connected and in touch with the force nearly aligning with the force itself. I think Jinn would have the advantage against Windu unless Jinn fell to the dark and became a sith.
I remember reading the canon surrounding episode 1, and Qui-Gon at the time was regarded as the best swordsman of the Jedi Order. Bear in mind in 1999 there was no Dooku, Palpatine wasn’t confirmed as Sidious and Windu was Sam Jackson in a chair...
Windu may have greater martial prowess but Qui Gon was much wiser and had a deeper understanding of the force. It was he who correctly idenfitifed Anakin as the chosen one (something Windu fervently refused to believe) and insisted he be trained. He also immediately and correctly concluded that Maul was a sith, something that was also received with skepticism by Windu and the council. Windu even arrogantly said that he "[did] not believe the sith could have returned without [the jedi] knowing". I believe Qui Gon's wisdom, understanding, and clairvoyance exceeded even that of Yoda himself. It was also Qui Gon who was the first to learn how to become one with the force and taught the skill to Yoda and Obi Wan. Windu's wisdom and understanding of the force was comparatively shallow. He was a incredibly gifted swordsman but not much more than that.
I remember reading that Mace was as powerful as Yoda, just not as wise or experienced. Many times other Jedi thought that Mace was the child of prophecy. And for good reason. Mace was the heir apparent to Yoda. He was thee most formidable wartime Jedi I've read about. From Shatterpoint to Vaapad to his ability to utilize the dark side without succumbing to it .. Windu was one of the greatest Jedi of all time and second only to Yoda .. in terms of perception and experience.
I almost agree with your conclusion but for me it would come down to connection to the force. Shatterpoint is awesomely powerful but Qui-Gon's precognitive abilities would allow him to predict the attack before it landed, thus more than negating Mace's advantage. I totally agree that it would be balanced on a knife edge and a butterfly flapping it's wings would impact the outcome but the lack of darkness in Jinn weakens vapod and shatterpoint is arguably negated by precognition giving the edge to Jinn.
Qui Gon was my fave, and he was the first one to find his way back from the netherworld of the Force to be able to manifest as a force ghost. I think he and Mace both were equal and, as said, it would depend on the day of the week as to who would win....
palpatine can read vaders mind to the extent of knowing he's in trouble across the galaxy on Mustafar and force users can locate other force users through the force over vast distance so how exactly would palpatine have any difficulty knowing exactly where Vader was and what he was thinking from the senate to the Jedi temple? Also palpatine has extremely strong force vision and it hints he has already seen the whole incident as it "rarely failed him" implying it succeeded this time
you should get Jazza studios to do the animating for your fan fiction stories. not only would he do an awesome job but he would really enjoy animating a star wars short film.
Better question would be who is the better Jedi master? Windy may be one of the greatest Jedi warriors of all time but his judgement is flawed often and his personal feelings for Anakin could be construed as one of the reasons for the fall of the Jedi. Qui Gon was more attuned to the will of the force and had he lived in episode one I have no doubt things would have gone very differently. He didn't let politics cloud his judgement and he would have changed Anakin greatly from an early age with his philosophy and ideas about the force. Windy had more political cunning than wisdom. He thought much more like a sith in that way.
In the revenge of the sith novel it is explained that Windu is actually winning the fight vs Sidious, but he was turning to the dark side in the process.
Qui-Qon G most underappreciated jedi.
Raumance He saved Jar Jar tho
Your right Raumance.
You misspelled my name :/
Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin were also able to become Force ghosts so he wasn't the only one but perhaps the first to do it.
Jedi Jesus lol
I’d rather see a movie for Yoda, Mace, and Qui-Qon each in their primes then this Disney trilogy.
Would be cool. Thats why they wont make them
Mace was arguably still in his prime during the clone wars
Yea totally a qui qon one would be great ud get to see a younger dooku aswell
Meh, I feel like they’d be disappointments considering what Disney has given us thus far
Mace is in his prime during Clone wars
Mace is more powerful. He is an underrated character. Remember George Lucas himself said he beat Sidious fair and square.
Shaun Rosenberg
The novelization sure as hell didn't and that was full canon until the Disney buyout.
Show us the link to that explanation from Lucas.
Palpatine showed Mace Windu all corners until he knew Anakin was coming. What defeated person would have such a remaining strength to use this powerfull force lightning and push Mace Windu dozens of meters outside the building. I like Mace Windu, he should have had more action in the movies but he was no match for Palpatine.
Ton Postma revenge of the sith commentary is where Lucas mentions Mace overpowering Palpatine.
Mace would win. He was simply more powerful. Remember, George Lucas said that Mace defeated Sidious. It wasn't a "fake fight", as the maker of this film implied.
Lucas already stated that Mace won that match, no need for theories or scene dissections.
I think mace would have won the lightsaber duel...But I think Qui Gon Jinn was more connected with the force and that's why he was the one able to find the way to immortality through the force and taught it to Yoda and Obi Wan as I think the movies implied. That makes Qui Gon Jinn more powerful in my mind :)
Because he used practices the Jedi council deemed "Radical and extreme" when ironically he was the only one not bastardizing the force.
Darth Dumbledore same but I have different reasons but I agree with yours
I agree completely for those reasons and others like how he also sort of like mace understood and didn’t really use the dark side
Mace Windu was so gifted in the force and so powerful, that the jedi thought he was the chosen one (And that was when he was a Padawan. At this age he was more powerful than some MASTERS)
I think qui gon would win cause when mace brats him and kills him he would be a force ghost and we see that yoda can do things in the real world while being a ghost in part eight 🙃
I hope you can understand me im still learning english :)
I think Qui Gon was a more powerful Jedi in the sense that he understood the force better than Windu. He was able to keep his spirit and mind together even after death and manifest himself in the force, something that was considered impossible to most Jedi.
So did Obi-Wan. Mace windu is probably the most gifted force user in Jedi history. Not only was he mastered in the light of the force but was so proficient in his mastery of the dark side he could use the enemy dark side force against them.. channeling both sides of the force he created his own fighting style. Vaapad. Using both sides of the force is why his saber is purple.. blue+red=purple mace was a different fighter and force user
@@hardknocks5077 He was very talented but Luke takes that win then Yoda then definitely Mace and afterwards probably Revan or Anakin IDK either way either way he was a fairly strong Jedi (Qui Gon).
Nope
Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu.
They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress.
Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ev
@@jaimaavaishno-devi Not really since he would have killed Darth Sideous had it not have been for Anakin interfering with there duel all the Jedi you named can’t compete in that level therefore notating at that point in time he was stronger then all of them since some of the Jedi you mentioned were killed by Sideous himself right before that moment.
@@swordartonline6719 🤣🤣🤣u wish
I met Lucas and he said Mace won. Sidious didn't throw the fight.
Thank you . I knew Mace Windu beat Darth Sidious.
Exactly, and the author keeps bringing up the fake theory Sidious threw the fight. That is very idiotic. A sith lord putting himself at the mercy of a Anakin who had just betrayed him to the Jedi Order, and who might just as easily allowed Windu to kill him? Nonsensical. Windu defeated Sidious.
Mentallect EXACTLY! I don't see a Sith Lord throwing his life to chance.
@ Dirty Harry Mace won.... even Lucas confirmed it himself on the DVD and its in the novelization ... he (Mace) used Vaapad which used the dark force against its opponent... the more Sidious channeled the dark side, the more of the upper hand Mace got...
I think sidious underastemated Mace and was confused that mace got stronger diuring their fight i think the Balance of Power was like this
1. Mace=Sidious evidence both are testing their streghts
2. Mace>Sidious sidious is backing up almost all of the time hedding back or standing in one place
3. Mace>>sidious sidious on the flor beging vor merci
I'm agree with you except for one thing: Palpatine didn't lose on purpose... Mace actually won... and if you have a doubt about it, then see the revenge of the sith novelization (which is canon) or hear George Lucas speech which confirms this. Basically Mace won thanks to Vaapad, which uses the dark emotions (like anger, despair, and so on) to empower the user. Mace got ultra powerfull during that fight, but the emotions didn't come from Sidious (who is aware of how Vaapad works and was able to supress his emotions), but from Anakin, who would make Windu stronger and stronger as he came closer to the fight. That's why Mace won, and it was a legitimate victory. However, Mace was so focused in killing Palpatine that his shatter point ability didn't show him Anakin's betrayal.
It is the old story again and again. Show me the explanation of George Lucas saying Windu would have won. Books are from various writers, not really 100% having to do with the movies. If they like Mace Windu they say he would have won. Palpatine was waiting for Anakin, that was his plan, showing Anakin he might loose. Anakin needed Palpatine to save Padme from the death he saw in his dreams. What defeated man does have that much remaining power to force lightning Mace Windu and after that throwing him out of the window by dozens of meters.
+Ton Postma And Palpatine also melted his own face with his force lightning being reflected back at him on purpose? I'm not buying it. Palpatine was overall more powerful, but in that particular fight, Mace's style gave him enough of an edge to best him.
Why in the world would anyone trying to turn Anakin to the dark side with promises of more power fake a defeat to look weak and helpless?
Yeah he actually did let that happen on purpose. That was actually his true Sith form and used the "injuries" as an excuse to finally reveal it. It also prompted Anakin to see the old man in "despair". I remember reading somewhere that it was canon.
Ryan Butela actually what I said it's highly stated in the official novelization... which it's canon.
What I would have liked to see was Qui-gon and Mace teaming up. Now that would have made for one powerful Jedi duo.
I agree Qui used the force as a religion an mace was a warrior
I think they could've been good influences on each other if they actually had conversations (as equals) about the Force and balance without lives immediately on the line.
mace no question. Start with shatterpoint, game over.
Mace: Are you sure you want a duel?
Qui-Gonn: Yes a full out brawl no holding back, a fight between two master jedi whose wisdom and power are spoke of across the known galax- *Mace uses shatterpoint*- ow my back!
Mace: Is something wrong?
Qui-Gonn: Yes, I can't feel my legs. There is something wrong with my spinal cord. I think I have been paralyzed.
Mace: Do you still want that duel?
Qui-Gonn: Of course not, take me to Yoda now!
shatterpoint followed by vapaad, no chance for most foes.
Kui gon jin
rsbandbj1
Mace Windu's use of Shatterpoint would be too vague and inconsistent to be a game-changer, as he has rarely made use of it to great effect, in combat, with the exception of his duel with Darth Sidious, which is irrelevant, because he had a very circumstantial speed/power amp, at the time.
not how shatterpoint works, shatterpoint is the ability to perceive weaknesses in objects events or opponents, the ability to injure a target by exploiting its shatterpoints was called force breach, and just because one can see shatterpoints does not mean one can use force breach.
Windu was never shown to use force breach, only see shatterpoins.
EDIT: also vapaad is close to useless against light side opponets Meli, the reason vapaad is so op is that it can use an opponents rage agaisnt themselves, which would not happen against a light side opponent, no, his best bet would be to use soresu and let Qui- Gon tire himself out, then kill him
You had me until you said Mace did not beat Palpatine...he certainly did and without monologueing lost that fight George Lucas himself said only two Jedi alive could fight Palpatine and win...though Qui Gon was already dead i don't think he would have stood a chance against Dooko much less Mace Windu or Palpatine or Yoda
I agree. Only Mace and Yoda were on his level for a competitive duel at that point in time. I'm also not buying that Palpatine was just toying with Mace or believe Palpatine would have melted his own face on purpose in the process.
Why did his face melt?
Alex
You're right. George Lucas did confirm that Mace Windu legitimately disarmed Darth Sidious, of his lightsaber, but Darth Sidious still was not defenseless. Toward the final part, he was, in fact, overpowering Mace Windu, with Force-lightning and could have chosen to kill him, right then and there, but didn't, to see Anakin Skywalker's reaction.
He was right Palpatine PURPOSEFULLY lost.
@@tucjdujgfgyas citation needed....
I like Qui-Gon but Mace would win all day.
True mace would beat qui-gon due to his mastery of vaapad a version of Juyo the same form that darth maul used and killed qui-gon with
hijodelmarineroII I agree
True
So what do you think my friend
I agree but I think its because he's basically the greatest duelist in the modern U. This is just speculation by me but I think Qui-Gon was stronger in the force, he was the first to master becoming a force ghost and broke through and wound up teaching Yoda who in turn taught Obi.
Windu isnt overrated everyone knows he's a badass
At least victory wasn't completely "taken" from him...
But Qui Gon Jinn has "a very particular set of skills he have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a nightmare for people like Mace."
Taken and other movies like that
Nope
Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu.
They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress.
Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ever.
Don't use age as a negative. For a Jedi (or even a force user in general), age is an advantage. As one ages, one's connection to the Force grows. This more than makes up for the physical effects of age.
Mace Windu = WHITE GENOCIDE!
Age does effect them. From what I read and understand Qui-Gon knew he couldn’t keep up with Maul as his stamina was simply running out. Yes the force kept him going but I’m the end he was getting tired and this concerned him during the fight with Darth Maul.
it strengthens the connection the force but your body gets weaker. this is why yoda lost to sidious. after force valor run out he was to weak to continue
For Qui Gon, he should have used Form 1 or 3 when he grew older, in order to not become tired from his Ataru fighting style.
CocoaNutCakery i agree except the force can keep him going but over time he looses stamina just like red bull or kind of like sugar u have a lot of energy but over time it runs out. and u get slower but I still believe qui gon's stronger
"Powerful" is a lot more complicated than "who would win in a fight" when it comes to Jedi
when you're duelling master yoda you always have the high ground!
So true lol
And yet Yoda would win .
depends on where is yoda striking from and he usually strikes from above. He is a star wasr version of a fidget spinner.
I would win
Mace is basically the best anti sith jedi duelist other than yoda.
lendial possibly better than yoda, actually
He was better than Yoda! Vapaad was specifically designed to make the user stronger based on how dark their opponent was.
Yes, Yoda could fuck a hoe up with Ataru, he was could only go for a limited time. Sidious knew this and kept his distance their entire fight because of this. Once Yoda realized he was tired, he retreated knowing Sidious was about to murder him.
Vapaad, is designed to redirect the energy of the person Mace is fighting so he never has to use his own.
@@jorionrange8336 yoda could use vapaad too
@@kukumama6378 And where are you getting this information?
Mace was better than Yoda, at least with a lightsaber.
I prefer Qui Gon Jim, but I belive mace would win
"Qui Gon *Jim*" hahaha
The Hanging Garden hahaha! (in Anakin whisper) "I was about to say that."
I would say sparring contest* purely for sport and training they would be equals at least. because both qui gon and windu showed aggressive fighting techniques in their duels
Reaper XBlast Samuel Jackson vs Liam Neeson
Reaper XBlast me too.
"Sidous threw the fight" lukas confirms mace beat him in an actual blade duel and it was only timing that saved sidious
Maul vs Windu
Who do you think would win?
Maul is a Sith so Windu's Vaapad would be devastating to him.
TKupz z Maul
Maul is no match for Windu
TKupz z Maul loses in a good fight
Man, that would be *extremely* close. Windu's Vaapad would be pretty much the only deciding factor here to give him the win - if not for Vaapad Maul would win.
Qui-Gon lost to Maul because he got hit in the face with the handle of the double sided lightsaber which stunned him and Maul took him out before he recovered. With having to defend against doubled blades he was constantly having to swing his blade left and right which left him unprepared to defend getting hit in the face with the handles of the double blade. If Maul only had one blade I'm not sure if he would've been able to defeat Qui-Gon.
And Qui-gon loss to beacause he didn't use the force (beacause if he did he would win 'cause he is one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy
Jin lost because Dooku taught maul all of his formal pupil's weaknesses. That's it.
@@Getloose360 B-But dooku didn't turn until he watched Qui-Gon die. Qui-Gon's death is literally his turning point.
DemonSlayer879 I’m pretty sure dooku left the order before his death
If you're looking for animators, but it's because it's too expensive, why not open a patreon account to help pay for them? You have more than enough subs to start that.
Teddie Wai
Oh. I didn't know.
In the end it would come down to who gets the High Ground first...
it would be cool to see Mace Windu, Dooku and Qui Gon Jinn at a little younger age fighting Darth Sidious
Nope
Plo koon & ki adi mundi & obi wan each are better fighter's than mace windu.
They outperformed him in their duels with asajj ventress.
Mace windu is the most overrated jedi ever.
Qui Gon Jin is underrated like Liam Neeson I don’t think they should have killed him off in the first movie he had so much potential but they killed him off I would have loved to see more of his character evolving. Would you not like to see that? I’m sure I would.
mac windo vs darth maul
Mace beat maul's master. He can beat Maul
Shaun Rosenberg Sidious?? mace didn't actually beat him but yes windu beats maul tho it's very close
He did beat him. The official statement from George Lucas says that Mace overpowered Sidious, but Sidious pretended to be out of options once Anakin.
arrived
Shaun Rosenberg Sidious was just toying with windu if he went all out it's a Stomp Sidious wins
I’d love to see a Qui-Gon Jinn origin movie, with the ending being the beginning of The Phantom Menace.
The consensus seems to be definite that Mace Windu is more powerful and would win...
...I think that the fight is closer than people assume. 1) Darth Maul was an insanely skilled swordsman. The Clone Wars cartoon shows him holding off Palps for a short while, and he was trained from birth to be the ultimate warrior. I would argue that Maul was near or equal to Mace Windu in terms of lightsaber skills. Despite this, Qui-gon still held his own for quite a while.
2) Qui-Gon's style of choice was severely limited in the area where he and Maul were fighting, preventing a lot of the wide-acrobatics that make form 4 as deadly as it is.
3) Although Mace Windu did beat Palpatine fair and square, his Vaapad gave him advantages that other Jedi would not. Essentially he was a water type going up against a fire type.
4) We never got to directly see Qui-Gon in his prime. He was older and clearly didn't have the stamina to fight long term by the time he dueled Maul.
Honestly, I think that Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, and Count Dooku are all around the same level as each other. In their respective prime capacities, and duels between the three could go any way.
But in the end, I think that Windu had the edge in Lightsaber combat, while Qui-Gon had a stronger understanding of the Force. So while Qui-Gon was the better Jedi, Windu was the better warrior.
But, that's just me.
I'd say Qui-gon was probably more knowledgable with the force but I think in a contest of lightsaber fighting and ability to use the force, mace windu would crush him every single time.
Qui-gon was a great Jedi in terms of philosophy and spirituality, but he just didn't seem to focus too much on combat. Which is fair enough considering there wasn't much need for it until the Sith reappeared and a war began. Mace Windu was a powerhouse in comparison when it came to combat ability.
Seems like the Stupendous Wave and you guys are the only 2 reputable Star Wars theory sites left on RUclips. Considering that there is hundreds of theory sites out there explains why you both don't have more subscribers then you do. Keep up the good work
Qui gon will win, because not like most Jedi, qui gon trusted more on the force, than the republic
Rey Bay Mace windu can literally see the weakness in anything, and beat Darth Sidious in a duel. Not even yoda defeated sidious
Oshura yoda was very old you saw him in Star Wars attack of the clones he can absorb the energy and send it back he couldn’t do that anymore because he lost his power
Oshura age was qui gons weakness but the video specified in their primes and I doubt qui gon has another weakness other than age
@@luvskarz5 what duel is everyone seeing YODA Beat Sidious but happened to be on the wrong side of the balcony so he fell when he
Rey Bay that’s why qui gon didn’t want to be on the council
Qui Gon Jin was such a great character who deserved more airtime with his philosophy before he fell to Maul.
Windy all the way
I have to agree with your outcome, although Quigon Jin is my favorite jedi (with Kit Fisto a close second). Mace Windu is just such a powerful jedi when it comes to combat. I see Quigon Jin as more of a philosopher that explores the force than one who focusses on the militaristic side of it.
As I understand it, Mace Windu was the most powerful member of the Jedi counsel before Anakin joined.
no yoda was
Mace Windu was a close second to Yoda though.
Yoda was just a bit more powerful, but then again, after 900 years I sure hope he would be the most powerful of his time
and anakin never was the most powerfull, he has highest milichlorian number, but as we see in ROTS his fore punch was equall to obi's, windu, yoda, and probably some other masters would ragdoll him with easy
brak danych Anakin is pretty close to Mace in TK actually. He's not getting ragdolled.
I'd like to just call you out on this as 100% wrong at 5:05 the expression on Mace Windu's face while reflecting the force lightning actually show's how much darkside power Palpatine was using at the moment, further his disfigurement during the scene is from OVERUSE of the darkside which has been proven by ANCIENT SITH LORDS to rot your body and is a sign of great strength in the darkside. It is most typically seen in the Sith eyes.
Plainly put as long as Palpatine was using the darkside and Windu using Vaapad, you'd likely see Mace come out on top, as Form VII is the strongest form of lightsaber combat even declared by Yoda.
What if mace windu changed to the dark side
Jedi exterminator rises, gangsters will rule the galaxy
NXG123NATION 1 Windu had the ability to channel the dark side of the Force without succumbing to it. That made him even more powerful...
J. José Rivera Torres well in his alternate story Windu couldn't control his ability and his combat style (number 7) Vaapad was too dangerous for Windu to contain it and got possessed by the hatred that the dark side gave him
NXG123NATION 1 he cant
He's already on the dark side...lol
I had the pleasure to meet and ask Pablo Hidalgo a question during comic con chile, last sunday, and I ask him if the way Qui Gon understood the Force was the most balance way and he answered me "yeah, I think so. He was like the perfect jedi"
I think makes form 7 would eventually break thourgh his defense
I mean mace
honestly I love your videos' current format. I'm interested in what is said, not seen.
After listing to this I would go with Mace Windu
I LAUGHED when homie said "it's a toss up"
Qui-Gon Jinn the most wise of all Jedis. he would out think Mace Windu. I love them both but my heart and final decision is Qui-Gon
Same here. In episode 3 Yoda acknowledges Qui-Gon's accomplishments after his death. He taught Yoda how to become a force ghost. Now that is infinite knowledge , and knowledge is power.
Doesn't matter how wise he is. Mace Windu would kill him. Mace Windu is the best duelist in the Jedi Order no single Jedi or Sith could face him in single combat.
Mace Windu may kill Qui-gon Jinn, but Qui-gon, being struck down, would come back more powerful then you could possibly imagine.
@@ShameenYakubu without Vapaad & Shatterpoint, Windu would not beat Dooku. Would never happen.
@@IndianaJoe0321 So? Mace would still win. That's like saying without the Force Dooku wouldn't beat Obi-Wan.
Doesn't matter. Fact is he would win.
Dude your amazing thank you so much for making these star wars vids keep it up
Qui-Gon is more of a cool surfer dude while Mace is more of a .... Psychopath... The outcome was pretty obvious
this channel is great! well done! best to watch whilst gaming. keep it up:)
I agree that Jinn is underrated (criminally so in fact) but how in the hell is Windu underrated? If anything, he's overrated.
That being said, Windu would win in a fight without a doubt. I don't see what Jinn is bringing to the table that would allow him to even match leave alone beat Windu.
Well Qui Gon would have brought meditation and preparation. Those two can mean alot
Windu would win fairly easily. But Qui Gon's knowledge of the force may have surpassed most during his era.
Gabriel Carrasco
This is true. Even though he was labelled a Grey Jedi by many due to his disagreements with the High Council, he was actually a better Jedi than most during his era. He may not have been as powerful as Yoda and Windu but he was, in my opinion, a better Jedi.
I do like your videos. I liked this one too. Lots of detail about the Jedi. I was a bit surprised you didn't talk more about the match up. I agree mace would win, I don't think anyone thought you were gonna say kwi Gon, but how, why? mace's style would be less effective since there would be very little dark side to pull from. what about height? would mace end it quickly or tire him out? still a good video. keep them coming.
Could you make a video about what if greivous was force sensitive.
Like if u agree.
If they change everything about Star Wars now I won't follow the franchise... And I'll tell everyone I know to stop following it...Because Disney Star Wars Sux!!!
And I think Star Wars movies should only b made by George Lucas.
A huge advantage of Windu is his Shatterpoint ability, but it wouldn't really work when going against Qui-Gon. Shatterpoint is about absorbing the enemy's dark side energy, turn it into your own, then use it to fight back. But Qui-Gon isn't a dark side guy, nor do I think he would ever be.
Mace wins hands down for me, its not a question. Mace ability with the lightsaber is 2nd to none. Its actually stated by Master Yoda, that Mace mastery of his fighting style, Yoda stated that 1 on 1 Mace could never be defeated, because he used this style to harness his opponents energy and strengths against themselves, actually drawing on them. Yoda did not state it was only sith but anyone. Therefore based on Yoda, He could go against sidious one on one in a duel and best him since Sidiouds use of the dark side would only empoer Mace,. Although force powers give the advantage to Sidious. So for me its Mace, just based on what Ive read and my opinion.
Good video, thanks for uploading.
make a theory what if mace kill phalpatin before Anakin have chance to save him.
Order 66 never goes through, the Separatists have no leadership with Sidious, Dooku and Grievous all dead, Republic wins the war, peaceful galaxy, Leia and Luke join the Jedi Order.
might even keep Anakin on the side of the light, if not he'd die too lol
yes it might
Literally roll the fucking credits. It was a mere couple minutes that sealed the fate of the galaxy.
Qui gon was the original force ghost. Lucas states that his training was incomplete because he can not afford liam, originally he was the first full fledged force ghost and the power of force ghost are unparalleled. They can change physical world, can look in the past and future, can hit anyone with their body and can even sence emotions and smell of organisms and object.
What can Mace do in front of force itself.
Mace windi
Windu
I can't wait to see a SW spinoff about Qui-Gon! The story of Tahl, and something on Xanatos, and an interesting role for Liam Neeson waits for filming!
can you do part 2 of what if mace windu fought Anakin Skywalker
As I watched this, I annoyingly to myself predicted everything you described... loving both characters, I completely agree with you.✌️
I think Mace would win.
I started watching your videos and I love them, wonderful facts.
I think Qui-Gon would win due to his high-level of use of the Force and lack of dark side influence, otherwise Mace would win.
But Mace's use of Vapad was an advantage.
@@Alexander-dz3tf But Vaapad works in a different way, the user (Mace) would draw the dark side energy from the opponent (eg: Palpatine) and use it for his advantage, but Quigon is pure light side so it wouldn't be so effective like it did with Palpatine.
@@guru8104 And? The question isn't who would win in a duel, the question is who is more powerful, and while Qui Gon was wiser, he was certainly not more powerful.
@@Alexander-dz3tf I know that all i say is Vaapad can't be an advantage to Mace. He had to use some other form.
@@guru8104 Yes Vaapad is a power that Mace has yet not Qui Gon and therefore I conclude he is stronger. Mace isn't gonna be battling light side users, so your point holds no merit.
I'm not sure about your editing choice. I understand you wanted to compare them on each point, but I was listening to your analyse will doing something else and, without my entire attention (and your visual aids), I had difficulty knowing which one you were talking about. It's going back and forth between each Jedi that confused me. Your video is still very good and I enjoy your channel a lot.
Mace easily
Yoda>WIndu>Skywalker(ROTS era)=Obiwan > Ashoka> Luke (ROTS) = Quigon --------> my ranking of light side fighters. Of course Luke in the Mandalorian was probably stronger than he was in ROTS and was closer to Anakin's level in the Clone Wars era.
I think Mace Window will win because he is second in command of Jedi Council no amouture gets that spot.
qui gon was not on that councle because he was a thinker and did not conform
lordaizen66, I know that but if he was on the council Mace Windo is still would have been second in command so that means he would is still better then Qui-Gon-Gen
CyberTheBoss - CyberSurvivor44 Watching Account, first of all do not say the Lord thy God in vain, 2nd of all you could be nice about it, and third of all I didn't no how to spell council.
For God sakes
Josh Castic "mace window" hahahahahaha fool
Qui Gon is underrated because he lost to Darth Maul, but he only lost to Maul due to many circumstances going against him.
He was old, aging and fighting an extended battle with Maul who had potentially the best stamina of any Jedi or Sith. The battle then shifted to close quarters, which put Qui Gon as a major disadvantage given his fighting style. Before the battle became close quarters, Qui Gon did seem to have the advantage against Maul, who himself was in his prime and incredibly powerful. It would have been awesome to see more of Qui Gon, he was my favorite character in episode 1.
IMO Mace is the most powerful Jedi ever. The 3 strongest are easily him Yoda and Luke. Mace is the most powerful because he was the only one to actually beat Sidious.
sound logic.....I agree....
Lol how do you figure? No he's not. He's good but not the most powerful 😂
Seems like you know your stuff, but might I suggest, give all the facts about one character, then all the facts about the opposing character, then give a breakdown of how those facts prove who might win. It would make the video easier to follow.
Great narration!
bullshit Mace Windu straight up beat sidious
in the cannon novelisation of revenge of the sith it's made clear mace is at least gaining ground on him until anakin intervenes. but in the films it definitely looks that way.
Mace won.... even Lucas confirmed it himself... he used Vaapad which used the dark force against its opponent... the more Sidious channeled the dark side, the more of the upper hand Mace got...
KERRY RAMBALIE damn right brother
Yeah also the fact Palpatine couldnt overpower windu with force lightning proves this.
Definitely disagree with this. Palpatine could not have known that Anakin would show up when he did if at all let alone intercede in the fight. He would not risk his life just to turn Anakin. Sidious is a sociopath with zero compassion for others and an overriding ambition for total domination. Someone like that would not risk their life for someone else, even for Anakin Skywalker. Mace won fair and square.
You've got great videos man :) I enjoy watching all of them ;) I've got a question though - can anyone point me to the music in the background? I really like it :)
What if Finn never rebelled against the first order
no traitor memes....
*Hears the word traitor*
Prepares to throw down weapons before actually reading the comment
Like nothing would've changed
Lol nothing would have changed😂
He would still be cleaning toilets. He had janitorial work.
I got a fun fan fiction/alternate history idea: Quigon doesn't die in Episode 1, he trains Anakin Himself, and together they fulfil Anakin's prophesied destiny of restoring balance by leaving the Jedi order (which Quigon already believed was deeply flawed) and founding a new league of grey Jedi. The Sith fall, the Jedi disband or join the grey Jedi, and balance is restored to the force.
Guys, guys, guys, I was just thinking, what if, Palpatine (of all people) was the Chosen One? Think about it. Even though Anikin was "the chosen one" reffered to in the prophecy, who became Emporer. The Jedi had not let the Sith thrive in YEARS. Anikin was just a pawn. Sidious actually brought balance (Not peace, of course he is butthole).
Revan The Prodigal Knight no
A lot of force sensitives can proclaim themselves as the "chosen one", Anakin just had more midiclorians to justify his pretence.
It was confirmed in the clone wars that Anakin was the chosen one
Qui Gon Jinn is my favorite Jedi and Mace Windu is my brothers favorite Jedi so this is a fun video and idea
mace would beat Darth Vader, Kenobi and Luke true question is would he beat Yoda?
I think so
Yoda was the Grand Master for a reason. I believe Yoda would win.
Mace was grandmaster as well
True but for a short time. Yoda has centuries over Mace. I would like to see that battle though.
hahahaha really? Mace would not stand a chance against luke lol 😂😂😂
I'd love to hear more about Qui gon turning to the dark side.
I feel like this discussion was focused more on dueling than on the overall strengths of both characters. Based on the movies, it's pretty clear that Mace Windu was the stronger duelest due to Vapad and his experience in the clone wars. His accomplishment was being one of the best duelests that almost defeated Sidious. Qui Gon was an underated yet good duelest, but his strength was more of that he followed the living force and could see things that Mace and the other Jedi could not. His accompishment was that he saw that Anakin was the chosen one even though nobody beleived him, he was the first force ghost, and that he would have been the one who would've seen the rise of the sith coming had he not been killed off. I'm posting this 4 years after the video was published and I've seen other videos from this channel talking about these strenths of Qui Gon and Mace, so the topic has already been covered.
Do something on Plo Koon, awesome channel btw, been here since 20k
I want a video of Mace Windu vs Darth Maul, also Count Dooku vs Darth Maul
don't forget gin was learning to become one with the force and like obi in a new hope part of them is in the process of becoming immortal (force ghosts( so when gin was fighting maul this was already in process hence him being weaker then in his younger days. Just to your other points! Great vids btw!
Great video . What's the name of the music during the first 2 minutes . Thanks . Can you do a video what if Qui Gon survived and went on to serve on the Jedi council during the clone wars?
this video made me subb. good stuff!!!
If both are in their prime, Qui-gon wins. Qui-gon sparred Mace Windu to a standstill in the comics and was 20 years older...that says a lot...
Nobody ever brings up what if Qui Gon threw the fight with Darth Maul so that he could become immortal with the force he was the first to become a spirit Ghost he trained Yoda how to use that form then Obi Wan learned from Yoda. We yet have to see Mace Windu as a spirit Ghost or any other Jedi. It was never explained how Darth Vader learned how to become a spirit Ghost by the time Yoda and Obi Wan learned that technique Vader was in the dark side so nobody with that knowledge could of teached him because only the Jedi Yoda and Obi Wan knew about it..
in phantom menace qui gon's fighting skills had been cut down quite alot. clearly qui gon's death had been the catalyst to obi wan taking the trials and anikan becoming a padawan. in many ways it seems pretty clear there are a number of ways qui gon can take master windu down however in other ways it seems more as a draw because there is so much that qui gon could have done to weaken maul then ultimately defeat him which would have changed siddious plan to building the empire.
Do a "what if Qui Gon turned to the dark side" video!
Man..I wonder what would've happend if Mace was sensing Ani's intentions (or at least sensed his innver 'devil') and blocked his saber ATK..? Presumable scenario is that With Sidious disarmed, Mace would basically duel Ani on h2h, and I can see clearly of, using Ani's anger Mace beating him with ease. Then probably expelling Ani from the Jedi Order → Ani becoming a Sith eventually?
Give Qui-Gon the high ground and it becomes a whole different story!
I feel like it’s Jinn tbh. Form 7 was generally useful against dark not light side users as the Council probably wouldn’t teach anti-light forms. I definitely know Jinn was more connected and in touch with the force nearly aligning with the force itself. I think Jinn would have the advantage against Windu unless Jinn fell to the dark and became a sith.
I remember reading the canon surrounding episode 1, and Qui-Gon at the time was regarded as the best swordsman of the Jedi Order. Bear in mind in 1999 there was no Dooku, Palpatine wasn’t confirmed as Sidious and Windu was Sam Jackson in a chair...
Windu may have greater martial prowess but Qui Gon was much wiser and had a deeper understanding of the force. It was he who correctly idenfitifed Anakin as the chosen one (something Windu fervently refused to believe) and insisted he be trained. He also immediately and correctly concluded that Maul was a sith, something that was also received with skepticism by Windu and the council. Windu even arrogantly said that he "[did] not believe the sith could have returned without [the jedi] knowing". I believe Qui Gon's wisdom, understanding, and clairvoyance exceeded even that of Yoda himself. It was also Qui Gon who was the first to learn how to become one with the force and taught the skill to Yoda and Obi Wan. Windu's wisdom and understanding of the force was comparatively shallow. He was a incredibly gifted swordsman but not much more than that.
I remember reading that Mace was as powerful as Yoda, just not as wise or experienced.
Many times other Jedi thought that Mace was the child of prophecy. And for good reason.
Mace was the heir apparent to Yoda. He was thee most formidable wartime Jedi I've read about.
From Shatterpoint to Vaapad to his ability to utilize the dark side without succumbing to it .. Windu was one of the greatest Jedi of all time and second only to Yoda .. in terms of perception and experience.
I almost agree with your conclusion but for me it would come down to connection to the force.
Shatterpoint is awesomely powerful but Qui-Gon's precognitive abilities would allow him to predict the attack before it landed, thus more than negating Mace's advantage.
I totally agree that it would be balanced on a knife edge and a butterfly flapping it's wings would impact the outcome but the lack of darkness in Jinn weakens vapod and shatterpoint is arguably negated by precognition giving the edge to Jinn.
Qui Gon was my fave, and he was the first one to find his way back from the netherworld of the Force to be able to manifest as a force ghost. I think he and Mace both were equal and, as said, it would depend on the day of the week as to who would win....
palpatine can read vaders mind to the extent of knowing he's in trouble across the galaxy on Mustafar and force users can locate other force users through the force over vast distance so how exactly would palpatine have any difficulty knowing exactly where Vader was and what he was thinking from the senate to the Jedi temple? Also palpatine has extremely strong force vision and it hints he has already seen the whole incident as it "rarely failed him" implying it succeeded this time
He was in a fight. There's no way he was searching for Anakin whilst fighting Mace.
Both are one of my fav Jedi's! Along with Yoda and Kao Cen Darach!
you should get Jazza studios to do the animating for your fan fiction stories. not only would he do an awesome job but he would really enjoy animating a star wars short film.
these are two of my favourite characters in the all of star wars
Better question would be who is the better Jedi master? Windy may be one of the greatest Jedi warriors of all time but his judgement is flawed often and his personal feelings for Anakin could be construed as one of the reasons for the fall of the Jedi. Qui Gon was more attuned to the will of the force and had he lived in episode one I have no doubt things would have gone very differently. He didn't let politics cloud his judgement and he would have changed Anakin greatly from an early age with his philosophy and ideas about the force. Windy had more political cunning than wisdom. He thought much more like a sith in that way.
In the revenge of the sith novel it is explained that Windu is actually winning the fight vs Sidious, but he was turning to the dark side in the process.