Always wondered how Yoda sat back amd watched how Anakin and Mace interacted, how he could see that Mace was always pushing Anakin's buttons but still not say "Bro, being a dick you are, chill a bit you should"
How can WIndu be considered a dick when he ended up being right about everything he said and sensed about Anakin. By the way Yoda kept Anakin back more than Windu because he knew deep down Anakin would turn to the darkside tbh.
Crazy thing is, if they got Anakin's mom out of slavery - his turn to the dark side would have been avoided. Anakin must have been confused being surrounded by luxury and powerful people, yet no one cared enough to free his mother from slavery. If the Jedi council believed Anakin was so important, they should have cared about the boys welfare - even if the Jedi council would not allow Anakin to see his mother to avoid attachment - Anakin's mother being secure from slavery could have been enough to alleviate Anakin's fears, which lead to hate, which lead to the darkside.
This ---^^ It was the beginning of the end for Anakin. The Jedi council bleeds Republic credits on everything else, not to mention that Qui Gon was literally travelling with royalty. They could have easily paid Watto more than enough for Shmi. If not then, they could have gone back at any time. They then completely ignored his visions about her, and in the end, I believe, were responsible for the massacre of the Tusken Raiders. Having your Mother die in your arms after all of that would be more than enough to want to destroy the Jedi Order. Slaughtering women and children in that camp was just the precursor to what he did at the Jedi temple, and then murdering his wife (and nearly his children). There's no coming back from that. The irony in it all, is that ultimately, the person that Anakin Skywalker hates the most is himself. Oh, and sidenote - being raised as a slave and then being "liberated" only to be forced to call a bunch of new people master probably wasn't a good idea either. 🙂
Shmi was freed. She died later of a random accident, after a 10 years of a good life with her husband. Bring Shmi to Coruscant, she dies from natural causes, Anakin would still suffer like hell since he didn't understand the jedi way of non attachment.
Nahhh. You gotta remember, the thing that fully turned Anakin wasn’t the slaughtering of the tusken raiders, though the loss of his mother affected him…it was his fear of losing Padmé and his child . He wanted the power to save her, and was willing to do whatever it took.
Here's where I always stood: I could justify Mace's and by extention the order's entire position, if they had invested so much into Anakin, to help him through his struggles with attachments, confusion, anger, fear etc. If they had actually tried to train and teach him, rather than just say, "Let go of your attachments they will lead you astray", and after all that Anakin still turned, then maybe, maybe I could understand their side. Yes, Anakin had the deck stacked against him: Older than the typical initiate or Padawan, born into poverty, slavery and oppression thus leaving him emotionally damaged. Blessed with natural and tremendous raw power and potential in the Force, and thus making him superior, even minutely to most of his peers, including some seasoned Jedi. Losing the one person he cared about, his mother, and constantly being told by his superiors he must let go of his attachment to her. Anakin constantly struggled with very real and valid fears that he was never going to fit in as a Jedi and that the Order did not care for him, even Obi-Wan, as very early in their relationship Anakin constantly feared Obi-Wan never cared for him and would abandon him at any moment. Instead, Anakin got mixed signals. On the one hand, he was praised and held up as a rising star among the Jedi order, constantly told of his being the famed Chosen One to balance the Force. Constantly told he would one day be the greatest Jedi ever. Yet, he was rejected, shunned and always treated with doubt and suspicion by the very Order he swore an oath to.
Dude, did you watch the second film? Anakin was unwilling to hold his emotion in check, and unwilling to recognize the risk inherent with obsessing over someone. The dude committed actual genocide. I didn't walk away from that film wondering how Anakin ended up falling -- I walked away wondering how he was ever considered to be the best of the Jedi order. We can see from the clone wars and the rest of the canon that Obi-Wan lost essentially every person he ever loved, and he never never killed scores of Jedi younglings.
To call it jealousy is to ignore all of the red flags that Anakin was displaying. We're talking about Mace, a stickler in the order. Mace didn't want Anakin being rushed into positions of power against the traditional process. Not to mention the fact that Anakin was initiated into the order against the traditional process as well. When a person like Mace is seeing a total disregard of tradition and protocol, of course he will be skeptical.
if qui gon jinn survived...he may have been what anakin needed the most and grew up up following the will of the force. or he should had been given to mace windu.
I always took it as being that mace was an institutionalist, deeply devoted to the rules and regulation of the Jedi Order, and Anakin represented a threat to the neatness of that order. He didn't fit in the neat little boxes of younglings and Padawans. Anakin was messy and rough around the edges, and the only one who would have been a good Master for him, Qui-Gon Jinn, was tragically killed. Qui-Gon would arguably have known how to handle him and that would be to look outside the box. Going by the book could yield only failure.
Mace believed Anakin was too undisciplined, and too powerful to be so undisciplined: he was dangerous to those around him, and too close to the dark side. Anakin didn’t like Mace because he saw himself growing in power, and Mace standing in the way of his striving to be the greatest Jedi of all time. This set up a tremendous resentment in Anakin who was resentful of Obiwan’s restraining him from rash actions also. It was noticed that Anakin was neither thankful or humble for his gifts, and immature, and yet powerful. A recipe for falling to the dark side.
Well said. I feel like a lot of people dislike Mace for his interactions with Anakin, and even blame him for Anakin turning to the dark side. However, I feel like Mace was completely right and justified in his concern regarding Anakin. He was certainly showing signs of getting out of control long before he turned completely.
The problem is that Mace was like that since he first saw Anakin. Even when he was a kid who had come there for the first time.All he knew at that time was that Anakin was too old for Jedi training, but he still acted like a Dick towards him.. Like it or not, Mace always disliked Anakin for no reason at all.. Windu could’ve explained it to the Kid rather than being a Dick.. Also, Mace was the same with Ahsoka. So yea, Mace was a Jealous Dick who hated Anakin because he was the Chosen One. I don’t blame Anakin for disliking or even hating Windu, the Guy was a Dick who acted like a Dick and the Bald Head of his made his appearance similar to a Dick too..
In ROTS, Anakin himself was taken aback by Palpatine wanting him to be on the Council. And he was fully prepared mentally for the Jedi to say no. But when Mace told him he can be on the Council but not given the rank of Master, Anakin saw that as a slap in the face and considering it wasn't his idea, received the feeling of Hatred towards him and not the Chancellor. And they were using him as a spy.
at this point if i was anakin i would have left the order right then and there telling them : "if you don´t trust me , you never will" , "i have done enough of your dirty work , i fought in a war for you and for the republic and you still disrespect me like this" "from this point forward fight your own battles master windu" "i suspect my wife may die in childbirth and i seek answers to help her , if you deny me the access to the jedi archives and all the knowledge i want to learn then i´m leaving the order and i´m taking my wife and unborn kid away from all of this and since you refuse to help me anyway i must seek my answers elsewhere" .
I think Mace should have been Anakin's master. Anakin needed a strong father figure that had mastered the fear and darkness with in himself. Kenobi, while a great Jedi had just made Jedi knight and had always been more of a brother to Anakin and also being so much less powerful in raw force abilities would lead to natural resentment in a fatherless teenager taken from his mother and told he was to be the savor of the galaxy. Then assigned to a Jedi that wasn't even a master and with average force potential at that. I would have had a chip on my shoulder as well.
I don't think so, Mace isn't a father figure type. He's the culmination of the deviation from the connection to the Light Side and stagnation of the Jedi unfortunately. He'd emotionally destroy Anakin to the point he'd turn sooner, Obi-Wan has said it, Anakin respected people not dogma.
@@YoungHarlem110352 but what you are forgetting is that mace found balance within himself through the Jedi code and doctrine. With Mace as his master he would he able to guide Anakin to find his own balance and deal with the fear with in himself. Anakin needed a mentor that was a solid rock in character and in the force that almost had the same raw potential in the force as him. Anakin loved Kenobi but felt guilty that he didn't respect him in terms of force use and potential. In otherwards Anakin as any strong headed gifted teen needed the solid foundation Mace would have provided and Mace would have been forced to see Anakin not as the chosen one but as a scared troubled youth that needed guidance from a master that could handle him.
@@HpacEastern Mace was able to find that balance DUE to his upbringing in the Order, he only knew those doctrines and attempted to abide by it (even if it was shaky as Mace himself did fall into some pretty dark tendencies) His solid character wouldn't have benefitted Anakin because he'd just see it as another form of ostricization as Anakin was the type to attach and form bonds with others, Mace would've attempted to dead that shxt from the get-go which would go against everything Anakin himself stood for. Mace and Anakin together although similar in attitudes and affinities are night and day as actual personalities. Anakin yearned for love, affection from his peers, and kinship. All of which Obi-Wan ended up conceding towards giving to Anakin because he eventually discovered himself the strict by the book method of mentorship the Jedi were accustomed to just wouldn't work and have a more rebellious pushback and cause Anakin to slip further into reclusivity. He was already far too accustomed to lifelong ostricization not to have that the love Obi-Wan gave him and under Mace he'd likely defect sooner.
@@YoungHarlem110352 you're forgetting is that Anakin was a scared boy and not the defiant young man that felt lost and guilty over leaving his mother. A guilt Palpatine exploited and used to turn him to the dark side with the promise of power to never feel that loss again . Anakin the boy didn't get that father figure from Kenobi. Instead that need was exploited by Palpatine. Who in turn slowly poisoned Anakin and slowly got him to act more from his feelings as a Sith would which in turn directly clashed with Mace. I still believe if Anakin would have had a true strong mentor and father figure like Mace, Qiu Gon, Yoda, to trust and lean on as a scared boy him would have been a much more well rounded Jedi and young man.
@@HpacEastern Anakin was no longer a scared boy upon his first year. He was an ostricized child whom the other younglings feared for his potential, jealous of the fact he got to know a life to begin with unlike them even if it was undesirable, and ridiculed daily for being a slave. As a child he became more reclusive from the age of 11 onward and the Order allowed it to do so, even almost condoning their behavior as it was never addressed amongst them. Obi-Wan WAS in fact right to zone in on Anakin's needs throughout the entirety of the canon and not just the movies and taught him based on those assessments as a rigid procedure only continued to bring forth more rebellious action, but again, Anakin valued bonds of comraderie amongst all else and put forth extremely little thought to the Jedi Code. Unfortunately Palpatine knew it too and Obi-Wan alone couldn't mitigate that fact, he was a person that thrived companionship everywhere he could find it because it was absolutely minimal in his life to begin with. Yoda was an influencing factor in his life, that much Palpatine had also surmised (which slowly began to change as his questions never yielded proper response in his mind.) But his relationship with Yoda was cordial not tight knitted as it would've been with Qui-Gon. Mace would've ended in Anakin's doom as much as it nearly did with Depa Billiba had she continued to fall into the Dark Side before being saved. The Jedi Order held DIRECT responsibility to most of the screwed up feelings that Palpatine was then able to exploit throughout his entire life. You'd think the Chosen One would be a bit more celebrated but it was met with unwarranted fear and confusion and flat out marginalization. And you're still ignoring the fact Mace was the epitome of following the Code to the T no matter how wrong it was according to the Living Force, his method of teaching would most definitely fail simply because Anakin held no credence or loyalty to dogma, like Qui-Gon himself.
Hot take- even if it was a bad decision it was better to train anakin- cause no way would "we found the chosen one but decided not to train him" have not found its way back to palpatine who would have scooped anakin the first chance he got.
yeah but the vader we would have gotten may be as strong and talented as revan himself. by the revenge of the sith, vader would probably succeed palpatine in becoming THE lord of the sith and be unstoppable or maybe let palpy get comfortable as vader erradicates all the jedi and destroy palpy when he least expect it.
@@motorcitymangababe also, did you know jango fett was around tatooine close to the phantom menace in legends? that means if jango and anakin crossed paths then we would have seen anakin become mandalorian.
He did not hate Anakin. He did not trust him, he had good instincts and saw red flags. When he faced Sidious with Anakin by the side, he expected him to help him. Reporting Sidious was something that made Anakin more trustworthy in his eyes. Sadly not for long.
But that's Mace's fault, when he saw red signals, they all had to do something, but they only repeated him dogmas about "repressing emotions" that they didn't even follow, of course Anakin chooses Sidious, he always treated him like a son, with support, Mace decided to give him his trust at the end and after so many slights, and Sidius gave it to him from the beginning without conditions
@@cecily3797 Anakin chose Sidious because of Padme. Because he thought Sidious knew how to save her. He used his love against him. that's why Jedis aren't allowed to be in love. Sidious lured him and manipulated him to the point of no return. Also, Mace was not his master, nor his friend. That was Obi-wan, yet if Sidious did not know about Anakin's fear, and did not use it, I'm quite sure Anakin would not betray Mace.
@@gentleheart7107 Padme was the main reason, but both sides had the same opportunity to help him, he sought help from both, the Jedi told him to hold on and nothing else, Sidious gave him comfort, encouragement and the possibility of saving Padme, the Jedi were being hypocrites because they used the dark side but they demanded to Anakin repress himself, and repressing emotions is not healthy, love or hate, they had to work with him, teach him, but they just said "stop feeling" and that's it. And Mace wasn't his teacher, but 1. All the jedi masters are supportive for whoever needs it and 2. Anakin was the chosen one, with such a big load he was going to need more advice and time, but they just assumed that he would do it somehow, and they neglected him instead of directing him better
I felt Anakin made the first attempt to mend; he told Windu everything! Windu then proceeds to ignore his advice, and say he and a couple of Jedi can ‘handle’ Palpatine. If Windu just took Anakin with him; things could’ve been very different. Hubris and ignorance doomed the Jedi.
@@muchanadziko6378 I actually interpreted what you said rather neutrally as it was hard to tell exactly how you were coming at it. But many people believe being the evil they fight against somehow stops that evil. Whoch it doesn't.
Fear leads to the dark side. Windu’s fear due to past events stopped him from showing and guiding Anakin in to the balance he himself has achieved, this lack of guidance was a massive factor in Anakin’s turn. Showing that fear doesn’t just effect yourself, but can have an impact on others as well.
Honestly think windu’s disposition is exactly what was wrong with the Jedi. If he would’ve taken time with him to help him balance the darkness in him the same way he did with himself. I actually think it was what you mentioned. I think he feared how quickly he was become more and more powerful and realizing they will not be able to control him. When in the end it was never their duty or place to control him. As Qui Gon would say. They lost sight of the living force.
The funny part is no matter how much we love anakin, Mace was never wrong to have hus doubts. 🤷♂️ it boiled down to anakin not being strong enough mentally and emotionally and Mace called it from the jump. Mace didn’t rely on prophecies, so why would he be jealous of him being the chosen one?
@@thaiylooze8217 Mace never even took the time to talk to Anakin and sure anakin was well himself. Sure he wanted Anakin to slow down but he never treated Anakin with respect and then he ignored his own jedi code which he hit Anakin over the head with over and over.
@@thaiylooze8217 Mace Windu could have helped Anakin from the start, helped him become mentally and emotionally stronger, but for years, decades even, he did nothing but look down and doubt Anakin, and you say Windu "called it", sure he "called it from jump" and then for years and years and years he did nothing to help Anakin at all.
@@spadesofpaintstudios1719 I don’t think Mace hated anakin. He actually grew to like him. But to be fair, they broke the code just by letting him in the order.....think about it. They already said Anakin was too old to train. And against their better judgment and against their sacred order, they let him. (You don’t think that’s nice enough? How nice do you have to be before your whole operation is collapsed?) I agree if Mace would have trained anakin then it would have been better for him but again, They were already very lenient on accepting him in the order. And mace was one of the most loyal jedi, so he held the order and their ideals very close to heart. I don’t think it was hate he felt, he just felt that something was out of order.
Of course he missed his mother ! Thats the problem the dogmatic rules. And the dumb strictness of it. Quagon jinn was the perfect jedi he let the living force guide him. Not some strict rules that are outdated. Windu had hate. Fear. Jealousy all traits of a darkside wielder
they should have taken anakins mother whit them, and just leave her as a slave as they did, even if she had not been a the jedi temple, but safe, the hole thing could have turned totaly different, but no, 2 jedis decided that slavery is fine.
this statement is exactly why you would have fallen to the dark side, lol. Mace Windu had long since conquered those petty trivialities of emotion. Anakan never did. That's why he failed.
@@Weffi76 no, two jedi's did not "decide that slavery was fine". Did you even watch the films? Quigon Tried to get shmi free as well, but was not able to LEGALLY. But even if he had been able to free her, he would not have taken her back to corascant. How the hell would anakin have learned detachment if she was right there the whole time???. And they could not just steal her from Watto. The jedi would not be the jedi if they did not follow the laws of the land, even in the outer rim. But You're missing the entire point. The whole point of Jedi Training is to develop a detached state of mind in order to be able to control their emotions. Attachment breeds volatile emotions. Volatile emotions lead to the dark side. This is why You would have fallen to the dark side, you would not have been able to gain detachment from earthly and material connections, LoL
@@Thorrnn if that is the case why does everyone that makes these videos say the same thing about mace he showed hate, and clear jealous toward Anakin. The problem with this jedi order is they try so hard to hide and act like they are some emotionless robots thats why most jedi of that time fell so easily to the darkside its to dogmatic
Mace was right to be skeptical. And he was right to continually admonish Anakin for taking the easy paths (with his lightsaber and other ways). This may have played a role in Anakin’s fall but so did Yoda’s blindness, Obi Wan’s hubris in thinking he could begin training the chosen one the same day he became a Knight and council’s stupid acquiescence to the same, etc. The power of Sidious also must be acknowledged. He was manipulating everyone, especially the Jedi. He was the perfect storm and the Jedi were the Andrea Gail.
But if the Jedi order didnt take him in surely they would have worried about the Sith finding him. Palpatine would have a pup Anakin all to himself for free. IF u find a messi or a jordan, you wanna sign them and also sign in their parents. There is a hole in the story.
@@GunmanYeoh At that point they weren´t even certain that the sith were still around, they only had Qui-Gon´s account to go on. That´s why they sent him and Obi-Wan back to Naboo, to "discover the identity of this dark warrior". It wasn´t until Qui-Gon´s funeral that they admitted that it indeed was a sith. Remember, they hadn´t seen a sith for 1000 years. Imagine if some of your friends called you up and said that the Vikings were back, you wouldn´t even take them seriously. The sith being back might have been what tipped the scales in Obi-Wan´s argument with Yoda concerning Anakin. There would be risks either way, he had no way of knowing that the sith knew about Anakin. And they clearly did after he blew up the Trade Federation Battleship, since Sidious greeted him in person and simply said "We will watch your career with great interest". If we compare with Kestis, he decided to leave the potential jedi untrained. Yoda and the Council´s reasoning might have been similar, that training Anakin would have put a target on his back, meaning easier for the sith to discover and influence him. It comes back to Sidious being at the center of things, because even if Anakin was shipped back to Tatooine in secret the chancellor of the republic could certainly pull some strings to aquire that knowledge. My point with all this is that we need to consider what the characters knew at any given time, the jedi didn´t know the full extent of the threat Sidious posed until they were wiped out. They were basically taking orders from their greatest enemy for over a decade, without having the faintest clue about it.
I wouldn’t consider Obi-Wan training Anakin to be hubris. He did it because it was the last wish of his master. Obi-Wan is a legend, but he struggles with attachment, too. Obi-Wan can’t let things go like, per say, Windu or Yoda. Anakin learning the ways of the Jedi from a man who is unconventional in his own right, had a woman he loved and would leave the order for, and loved his Palawan like a brother when he shouldn’t was not ideal. Obi-Wan trained Anakin to be the hero he was during the Clone Wars, but in the end, I believe the Council’s lack of faith in Anakin was the main catalyst for the fall.
By calling Windu "jealous" you're dismissing a lot of what the Jedi actually value. Power is secondary, especially considering normal people are not effective against Jedi and the Sith were believed long gone. They instead valued judgement and wisdom, because a Jedi with lots of power and talent but no jedi-style wisdom could easily fall to the dark side. That's a much more logical reason for Windu to dislike Anikan, or more specifically Anikan's aggressive, "un-jedilike" tendencies.
It's either racism or mace was giving padme the bbc behind the scenes 💯 he was jealous that padme only loved mace for his penis but loved anakin for being him
You hit it out of the park! Mace was not the chosen one, Anakin was, I don’t blame Anakin at all, I would be annoyed also, and yes it was the Jedi Council that pushed Anakin also. Well have a Happy Thanksgiving 🖖🏻
My issue is with the arc where they get stuck on that planet with the father and brother and sister.. it was such an amazing arc to introduce so much lore and help us better understand the force in this universe. But as soon as it ended, that was it there was no...conversation or debriefing of that time, no telling Yoda or the council what happened, for Yoda to add his two cents that even could have allowed Mace to believe in Anikan more....damn... i love Star Wars as a whole and the original 3 movies, but i love how more complex the Clone Wars story was.. theres a part of me that wishes the Clone Wars series could have came first... that way it could set the course, instead of always building towards a conclusion we already knew was going to happen. Its like Dave Filoni really wanted to create something amazing, for which he did, but he was always restricted because in the end it always was going to lead to Episode 3 of the movies for which i think could have been so much better.
Regardless of how he viewed Anakin when he first saw him, he caused Anakin's issues as well. Instead of trying to understand him, he created this idea of him and stuck with it. Who knows how Anakin would have turned out if mace would have helped him.
I wonder if windu understood that the "chosen one" doesn't mean good but a catalyst to balance the force, even with great destruction? Balance can mean both sides are destroyed.
Windu was a badass an' all, but I feel he truly did represent the worst of the Jedi of that era: so assured of his own mastery of himself and the Force that it made him arrogant and intransigent; he was also intolerant, mistrustful, jealous, and wasn't above taking matters into his own hands even as he criticised those same traits in Anakin. In their dogmatism, many Jedi of this era were much the same, as Yoda even alludes to in AotC (ironically, Yoda himself was guilty of this too.) Without the Jedi's inflexible dogmatism, Anakin likely never would have developed such strong attachment-related anxieties. Qui Gon understood this in trying to free both Anakin and Shmi; the more orthodox Jedi chose to stick rigidly to the Code and in doing so forced Anakin into a lonely and unhappy childhood, constantly torn between the demands of his new life and love for his mother (and later Padme.) Ironically, it is the Jedi's fear - their fear of the Dark Side - that created this inflexibility, and so in the end the Jedi did indeed give in to their fear, which clouded their judgement and use of the Force.
Hmm...there are some major issues with this argument, though. Anakin, a padawan, or even as a newly appointed jedi knight who had NOT achieved that rank by trial, regardless of how talented and skilled with the force he was, "taking matters into his own hands" is a completely different affair than Mace Windu, Second in command of the entire Jedi Order, taking matters into his own hands. Mace had EARNED his self assured mastery of himself. He had Earned the right to take matters into his own hands as a leader of the Jedi Order. Anakin was a hot headed punk ass little bitch who didn't appreciate what he had. Left to his own devices on tattooine, he almost certainly would have become a murderer (killing Watto in order to free himself and his mother, and anyone who came after them, just as he murdered ALL of the sand people instead of sneaking in and rescuing his mother quietly and without killing anyone), and would probably have set himself up as a warlord or something. Anakin does not demonstrate innate "goodness" at any point in his life, (except to a limited extent in the clone wars, but never in the films) regardless what Luke says. It could easily be argued that the only reason he turned away from the darkness at all in the end is because he'd been busted and saw a way out of imminent death. His sudden epiphany seemed a lot more like a "I know I've been bad but now that I've been caught and exposed, i'm REEEEAALLY SORRRY, FOR REALZIES THIS TIME", After having spent decades inflicting death, terror and destruction upon the galaxy without a second thought or any sense of remorse. Anakin is competitive and headstrong as a young child. He's arrogant and bitchy as a teen. To me, Mace Windu saw through the "ooh ahh it's the chosen one" bullshit, and saw that this kid was going to be a problem. A really Big problem. I think it's insulting to the legacy of Mace Windu to imply anything as petty as "jealousy" to a man who had confronted and conquered his own dark side influences to such an extent that he was able to rise to the top of the Jedi Hierarchy, and become the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, (after anakin, or course). Mace didn't like anakin because anakin was an asshole. The same reason no one else liked him. Yoda saw it too, but for whatever reason, Yoda allowed it to continue. Mace, on the other hand, kept his vigil against the darkness he saw coming. And as for training him to control his dark side nature...l'm not sure that training the guy who is very likely to destroy the Jedi Order in the only way you might be able to stop him from doing so is really the smartest thing to do. It is possible that if he had taken the time to train anakin, he might have been able to prevent palpatine's influence. But there's no guarantee of that. And how much more powerful would anakin have become if he'd mastered Vaipad Form and still fallen to the dark side? No, I think think Mace had the right idea about anakin all along and held him in contempt justly for his complete lack of self control, his weakness in his emotional attachments, and I believe that Make could see with clarity the path that anakin was following and didn't like it, and rightly so. Mace Windu was a Jedi's Jedi, not a pussy ass whiney little bitch like anakin.
I'm not absolving Anakin of his own failings or crimes. He was often arrogant and impulsive, and acted selfishly. But I stand by Windu's intransigence as exacerbating Anakin's failings. As Leia says in A New Hope, 'The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers.' Anakin slipped through the Jedi's fingers because Jedi orthodoxy had become so inflexible and controlling. Anakin did display goodness as a child, in selflessly helping the stranded Jedi and Queen. He also did indeed try to 'sneak in and rescue his mother without killing anyone', only for his mother to die in his arm from the Tuskens torture of her, which in turn prompted his loss of control and murder of their tribe. Let's say Anakin had been denied Jedi training and 'left to his own devices'; let's say he should have been left on Tatooine because he was too dangerous, in which case he could have ended up 'killing Watto and... etc etc' as you speculate. Would that not be the result of him NOT receiving guidance, NOT receiving Jedi training...? Anakin was a gifted but troubled child who needed the right mentor (Qui Gon Jinn) rather than the strict, controlling hand of Jedi like Windu and, for all his efforts, even Obi Wan. Windu's misgivings aren't without reason, I grant that; but his (and the Order's) treatment of Anakin is at least in part to blame for Anakin's fall. Take it from an actual school teacher: the more you treat a problem child like a problem child, the bigger a problem they become. I have been 'the Windu' in those situations myself, and I still regret it years later.
@@xIllMadeKnightx I agree with you 100%. The thing is, even if Anakin hadn't been found by the jedi and had lived his whole life as a slave in Tatooine, the jedi would still have fallen and Palpatine would still have become emperor. Anakin was not a decisive factor in this. It was Palpatine's scheming and the Jedi's blindness that are at fault. Anakin might have been a decisive factor preventing this, though, if instead of fearing the man a 10 year old slave boy might one day become, they had showed some damn compassion and freed the boy's mother.
Yes and yes again. I also like the fact that you incorporated the fact that Master Yoda was well aware of the cockiness of many of the older Jedi and that not Anakin alone was guilty of this trait. I also like that you noticed Yoda himself was somewhat guilty of this, and to that effect, their use of the force and thus their judgement had become clouded.
Anakin had a big head and definitely needed a reality check every now and then, but Mace made it impossible for them to see eye to eye. I get being afraid of repeating the mistake he made with Sora, but to outright claim that Anakin lacked discipline and that he needed to figure everything out on his own rather than helping him to achieve discipline was beyond short-sighted and stupid. He believed that Anakin was losing control of himself, but rather than giving him the tools to help him gain self-control and balance, he wrote him off as a lost cause that needed to be isolated and only spoken to when there was a need to reprimand him. And the fucked up thing is that Mace was just like Anakin at one point. The only difference is that he took the steps necessary to grow out of it and take command of his inner darkness. It kills me that Mace wasn't even aware of his own hypocrisy. He willingly refused to give someone struggling with the same inner demons that he himself conquered any kind of help out of fear, and quite possibly jealousy. Shouldn't Mace's first instinct as a Jedi be to help someone like Anakin manage and conquer their darkness rather than condemning him for having it in the first place? I honestly think part of why Mace didn't trust Anakin is because unlike Mace himself, Anakin never truly acknowledged his darkness. He never admitted it to anyone, save for Palpatine. And while I can understand Mace not being able to trust Anakin because he couldn't own up to what was going on, Mace shouldn't have expected Anakin to be just like him in the first place. It's hard for some people, especially people like Anakin, to admit that they have a problem and that they need help. A while back, Stupendous Wave put out a video stating the reasons why Obi-Wan ultimately wasn't the right choice to be Anakin's master. In short, Anakin didn't need a brother; he needed a father. Qui-Gon Jinn may have been the only one who could have kept Anakin from turning to the Dark Side, but I truly believe that Obi-Wan could have helped also under the right circumstances; and I also believe that to be true of Mace as well. Obi-Wan was Anakin's brother, so there was only so much that he could do when teaching Anakin self-control and discipline. Mace on the other hand could have been the father that Anakin needed. He probably wouldn't have done as good a job as Qui-Gon would have, but he would have been able to get through to Anakin in ways others couldn't because he had been through the same thing as Anakin. Anakin may have even been able to open up to Mace about Padme if things had been better between them. I'm not saying that Mace would have completely understood or supported it, but he may have been able to give Anakin some frank and honest advice. It would probably have ended with Mace convincing Anakin to reveal everything to the Council and leaving the Order of his own volition; and even going so far as to lay down the law with the Council, telling them to leave his kids alone. Palpatine would have probably tried something to keep his hold over Anakin, but the lessons Mace taught him would have given him the tools to fight back and win, saving the galaxy from Sidious' reign. That's what I believe anyway.
That's a lot of neat speculation of what could have been. But ultimately it wouldn't work. For all of Mace's strengths, his hypocrisy and probably jealousy as well would have created resentment between the two, more so than what actually happened. Had Anakin been Mace's padawan, I think it would have driven Anakin into Palpatine's open arms even more forcefully. In the end, Mace was blinded by his love of the Republic. For all the talk of avoiding emotional attachments, Mace was attached to the republic and the power it afforded him and the rest of his Order.
@@daniell1483 this is likely another possible outcome considering it could really go either way, Mace might of very well just kinda gave up on Anakin but he can control his emotions so I doubt he’d let them get the better of him while actually training I mean he’s not a child. But with the way personalities clash it wouldn’t of worked well at all, but your right for all the talk about no emotions and everything his loyalty and love for the order is kinda what drove him to literally going against why he even stood for.
@@spadesofpaintstudios1719 It is a sad irony that the two would never be on friendly terms as they are very similar personality-wise. Mace being so severe and strict with the rules so long as it doesn't apply to himself isn't too far away from Anakin doing whatever he needed to do to see a goal through. Mace and Anakin clash in part I think because they are too similar. Dark reflections of one another, Mace was what Anakin probably wanted to be as a Jedi; well-known, respected, powerful, the best of the best. Perhaps Anakin reminded Mace of himself in his younger days, and the reminder made him bitter and resentful.
I blame Mace for Anakins disobedience and eventual downfall.... He pushed and pushed... embarrassed him infront of the council time again... treated him like sh*t... He literally provided Palpatine a means to create Vader by just being a constant d*ck! Lol And THAT.... is why Mace is my favourite haha
New idea, maybe it was because Windu’s balance in the force that kept him indecisive. The good reluctance and the bad jealousy. This would a balance to a lot of theories. Bringing balance in the force, and bringing end to the sith are a bit different. Anakin did bring balance. The Jedi out greatly out numbered the Sith. So buy killing most of the Jedi he brought balance; then again killing himself and Sidious
Windu was ultimately correct...although the Jedi council could have embraced Anakin more. He might not have become attached to padme and lured to the dark side with manufactured visions of her death.
There are many ways in math to get the answer of 4. 2+2, 2x2.. 16/4.. They could have kindled more trust and care for anakin since day 1, accommodating such things, or helping ease his visions.
I have to agree with all of that except his attachment to Padme. In fact, I can take it further - Windu's belief that Anakin would end up falling was self-fulfilling, as it led to him taking actions that alienated Anakin.
Mace is a big part of Anakin’s turn to the dark side. I never liked Mace’s dismissivness of Anakin and the part of him being the chosen one. There was far to much hubris within the Jedi as a whole. Even with Yoda. And they all paid a very heavy price.
I believe Mace Windu's distrust of Anakin Skywalker was because of his constant disobeying of Jedi Council's orders and Anakin doing things his own way. Most Jedi Younglings enter the temple when they are very young so they do not have attachment issues. I believe the Jedi Council could have avoided this by freeing Anakin's mother and having her live a life where she did not have to suffer. This situation alone could have eased Anakin's need for assurance and allowed him to concentrate better on the Jedi teachings versus him being so combative and headstrong. I don't know how they could have missed knowing about Anakin's attachment issues and showing him how to properly deal with this versus overlooking it and just moving along like it doesn't matter. The Jedi misunderstood the emotions of love and the positive force that come with the assurance of being in tune with someone versus just leaning on the force for all understanding. All beings whether human or alien have these same emotions; for some, they are stronger and without understanding will dictate one's actions when triggered by an event. there should be some Jedi teachings about this and how the Jedi often got this wrong in their earlier dealings with some testimony. Anakin Skywalker is a paradox and an anomaly in terms of the prophecy of the chosen one. Mace Windu's mistrust of Anakin should have made him not only keep a closer eye on Anakin, but he should have extended an olive branch as a mature master Jedi in wanting him to succeed and guiding him to look for other ways to solve his personal demons and problems. The Jedi in the Clone Wars was never really ready to deal with war and all of its consequences as well as the fallout. They should have banded together in terms of helping each other out as well as watching over each other versus just doing the will of the senate in the name of the republic. They failed in not listening to Qui Gon Jinn and giving him a chance to explore his contributions to the Jedi Order. I believe Obi-wan Kenobi was not the best master for Anakin Skywalker. He should have learned from Master Shaak Ti in terms of patience and understanding in how to deal with his problems of attachment. It is his strength and also with the loss his greatest weakness. I believe he could have learned something important from each Jedi master had he the chance of working with on various missions; not just fighting in the Clone Wars.
As much as we like Mace, yeah, he was always aggressive towards Anakin while Palpatine massaged his ego and played "father" to him. I can see that Anakin felt so.
The best of this was probably the episode where boba brought the capital ship down to kill windu. It was windus brash decision that killed Jango thereby leading to bobas hated but anakin got caught. Windu lacked attachments and probably constantly wasted his droids memory and it wasnt able to decide on how to escape there but r2 did. When anakin placed trust on the droid Mace was angry but restrained. When r2 had to leave anakin trusted the droid while Mace talked against it. At the end When r2 came through he praised r2 saying he sees why his mater trusted r2 but when anakin laughs that the same trust wasnt extended to him Mace just says hmmm and ignored everything anakin says. Anakin asked Mace to bring in boba and that was the logical thing to do. Even the jedi way prescribes justice but windu said he would do nothing and called the though that of a child trying to humiliation anakin on this as well.
Also let's be clear, Mace sensed the darkness in the boy from the start,and to watch that darkness rise through the ranks,who wouldn't have a problem with that? If the rest of the Jedi had the same foresight and caution as Mace Windu,The Jedi Order would still be around. This boy turned monster destroyed the whole system.
I think hate is a bit much he was a dick to everyone but he had no special hatred for anakin in the ROTS novel he seemed quite concerned when anakin was having a panic attack after learning who palpatine was yes he did not trust anakin but I cannot blame him given the circumstances whatever his flaws he did want what was best for the galaxy mace treated anakin the same way he treated everyone else
No he didn't treat Anakin the same watch how he treats obi wan and Yoda compared to Anakin. The only time mace wasn't a complete dick to Anakin was when Anakin told him of palpatine, and he was still a dick just not a massive one when replying if this is true you will have earned my trust
@@timlawrence654 Yoda is a 1000 year old jedi of course mace will treat him with respect as for obiwan its because he acted differently obiwan was humble and was the perfect jedi he was willing to admit his mistakes and there was no darkness in him with anakin there was fear anger arrogance all rolled into one
@@hafeezasif7932 you made my point for me. You said mace was a dick to everyone and Anakin wasn't treated differently. As for those reasons mace felt the same for everyone on the council except Anakin and as for Jedi it was the same Quinlan Vos for example fell to the dark side and still got more respect then Anakin.
@Inyourmumsassisback Inyourmumsassisback Mace Windu= Giant hypocrite. Dont believe me. Go research Rham Kota. ( at the time most of mace's stuff was written the eu was canon so it applies)
Yes I felt Mace could have been a big help in Anakin’s life. He had his own struggles with the dark side. Mace was also in his own way arrogant. They had many similarities and Mace could have shared much wisdom with Anakin.
Mace Windu was not "arrogant". Anakin was arrogant, prideful and emotionally volatile. Mace Windu had proven to himself and the entire Galaxy, that he had worked his ass off to control himself, and he had Earned the right to be proud of his accomplishments. Even so, he was a humble monk in the Jedi order, subservient to the Jedi Code, and aware of his role in the hierarchy of the Jedi Order. Anakin, on the other hand, bitched and whined about not being made a "master" when he'd barely just been made a jedi knight, without ever having taken the jedi knight trials. Anakin was an asshole. That's why Mace didn't like him. That's why nobody liked him.
@@Thorrnn To belittle someone for the purpose of lowering their sense of self worth is the height of arrogance. It doesn't *get* more arrogant than that.
Hostley I think that if Windo was so worried about Anakin then he should've taken him as his Padawan he would've been able to keep a better eye on him and would've probably mentored him better than Obi wan did.
Did he seem to hate Anakin or did he "hate Anakin so much"? He didn't trust him, as he said himself, but he likely knew what could come of teaching someone so powerful the ways of the force if they decided to go Sith; and exactly that happened, not to mention Anakin not adhering to the ways of the Jedi, preferring to solve matters with violence and not peace
I’d like to see a trilogy where a Anikin didn’t betray everything and turn to the dark side… where he simply let padme die and raise his two children alone…
@@davidhatcher7016 I think she would have died in child birth anyway… but I’d like to see a version where he stayed the most powerful Jedi in the universe and didn’t become a severe burn amputee victim lol
Thing is, she doesn't die in childbirth. She dies due to Anakin's betrayal / or Palpatine life force draining her. What is sad is if Anakin didn't do anything, she'd be alive with Luke and Leih
Mace could not have waited to consult the rest of the council before confronting palpatine. There was no time to lose mace knew the chancellor must know the jedi are aware of who he really is and what’s to stop him from immediately making a law disbanding the jedi/labeling them criminals ect? Also I believe a factor in his decision to kill palpatine was if he died by mace’s blade that would end all these chosen one talk regarding. Anakin
The only person who could inform him was Anakin and Mace could have easily kept an eye on him by giving Anakin a mission they both had to go on. This alone would have solved two issues 1) would give them time to hash out their misgivings if both were able to be candid...they could come to common ground. 2) deprive Palps of Anakin and thus a powerful force user he could in fact turn. The biggest issue is...the Jedi denied all of Anakin's "why?" questions with 'until you get older/become a master'. They never sat back and looked at why is this Knight rushing so fast to become a master...let alone understand it.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 waiting for yoda was not an option. Shit even trying to contact him or the off world council members was risky because palpatine could tap into their communications. Taking the best available jedi to confront palpatine was the only option
You completely left out the fact that the Anakin had already lost a hand due to his own arrogance. Mace was simply babysitting the monster that he wasn’t being allowed to stop from growing up.
I am not surprised at all. Windu always seemed to represent the awful nature of the old jedi order: arrogance and thinking they're always right. Something that what eventually brought the downfall.
but anakin is not trust worthy he threw a tantrum after being denied the rank of master how can that be a jedi master he wasnt thet arrogant he just saw things for what they where
@@NMFives unfortunately war got him to that point. It was already 2.5 years into the Clone Wars at that point, and Anakin along with Obi-Wan were the catalysts to very necessary victories. He thought his accomplishments were well enough to get him the rank of Master. But that really wasn't the case, but throwing an already scarred teenager into the throws of war was never a good idea to begin with.
@@YoungHarlem110352 well duh, the Jedi only allowed Anakin to be on the council so he could be their snitch. It was humiliating. The Jedi only ever lied or manipulated Anakin for their own benefit.
Mace was like harden steel with a brittle flaw concealed within. Mace also elevated the Jedi protocols to the point of dogma. It would have been interesting if Mace applied his ability of Shatterpoint to himself. I truly believe that if Mace had become a mentor to Anakin, they both would have learned from the other and drastically changing what happened (or Palpatine would have had a plan for the that; an example would be killing one to drive the other to the Dark Side). Another thought, since Mace followed the Jedi protocols so rigidly, wouldn't his decision to kill Palpatine, a defenseless/defeated opponent (a clear violation of the Jedi Code), have lead Mace to the Dark Side?
I think both yoga and windu greatly sensed the lack of emotional maturity in anakin and paired with his raw abilities and strength in the force, could clearly see he needed better emotional self control to be a safe and genuine Jedi Master.
@@jeremyallen492 anakin was hard headed as fuck g lol he was ignorant and didn't see things from all perspectives he just wanted power without fully understanding how things went, he had good intentions to save people but thats why he was easily manipulated by his fears and they did do something about it he was denied that position lmao because he wasnt ready mentally and emotionally anakin thought he knew it all and its obvious but its understandable why he thinks like this because he's the chosen one and he was praised since the beginning so he developed that mindset.
@@jeremyallen492 Arrogance. Simple as that. The Jedi Council were extremely arrogant, self-important blowhards with no wisdom of any real value between them. And trillions died as a consequence of that.
Yeah sure, it was all Mace’s fault. Anakin never meant to kill all those children, did he??? People need to accept that Anakin was fundamentally flawed. The biggest faulty was he refused to listen to wisdom. Sure, he was a great Jedi Knight and an incredible general, but great generals have fallen because they were the same as Anakin. Mace was simply guarded against Anakin, because it went against the better judgement of the council, and it was ultimately because it was Qui’Gon’s dying wish.
People also need to accept that the council did nothing to address those fundamental flaws, and in fact took actions that exacerbated them. Flaws which could easily have been remedied _had they just hired a damn psychologist instead of telling Anakin to just meditate his worries away._ Sure, it was Anakin who killed the younglings. But it was Mace Windu who continued to pull rank over Anakin every step of the way. It was Obi-Wan who needed to learn to give a complement. It was Yoda who dismissed Anakin's concerns instead of getting him some much-needed help. It was Ki-Adi-Dumbass who initially pressed charges against Ahsoka Tano, Anakin's Padawan, without even being willing to hear Ahsoka's defense. Anakin may have made the choice to turn, but he made it based on his own experiences with how the Jedi council treated him.
Yet the council was so uptight that they passed up Qui' Gon to be on the council multiple times because he stuck out against the order the jedi order was flawed was anakin flawed yes he was he was told you were the chosen one multiple times and yet they held him back rather then help him understand and over the whole 'i'm better then everyone else crap" they gave him shit for it and remember he was slave who was use to having no power but now he had all the power he was so much better than all the younglings his age it was a joke he should of been trained away from the temple by himself
People are not born with their personality set in stone. They become that way due to the way the way their natural traits react to their experiences in life. The Jedi created Vader by failing Anakin as his mentors.
Even without Shatterpoint, Windu ultimately was right. Skywalker/Vader killed possibly billions directly and indirectly, not including his friends and wife, but is forgiven for chucking his boss down a hole lol. Yadda yadda balance. Mace knew dude was bad for business and the one time he trusted Skywalker, he lops his hand off.
I do like your Theory S wave but idk in the phantom menace I think he was just doubtful with Anakin due to him being a kid and missing his mother and in attack of the clones was simply displeased with his methods and immaturity and disobeying the counsel and obi wan many times and I agree with this part that he was viewed as a embarrassment to the counsel and Jedi order revenge of the sith was more along the line of mace being mace at first then eventually being skeptical of him being with padme then his bond with chancellor palpatine causing his to not trust Anakin then even more so with his outburst being denied master and staying a Jedi knight so I think it was normal doubt and mistrust towards Anakin and didn't see it going beyond that
It could also have been an effect of force foresight. If Mace, being very strong in the Force, could foresee on some level that Anakin would be the one to end the Jedi. That foresight might have come across not as a vision but as a feeling, one of intense hatred and distrust for the at the time innocent child. When Mace saw the hold Palpatine had over Anakin this would have confirmed his fears and caused him to switch to killing Palpatine in the hope that this would prevent the coming disaster.
I am always amused by how the Jedi are generally viewed as the 'good guys' and their actions are typically over look. Thanks for highlighting some of the more amusing Jedi traits here; stealing young children to refill the rank & fill of the Order, fear of emotions to the point of instability, create a fighting style designed around feeding off raw emotion that they aren't suppose to have. ^.^
There's no indication they stole childern in the PT era. The closest we see to that is them doing so a thousand years earlier in the Legends continuity and they had undergone huge reforms in the gap. From what we see the parents choose to give their kids up.
The jedis are the good guys, even if they're flawed. Enough with the sith apologists. "Well the sith destroyed an entire planet but damn, the jedis were somewhat harsh with Anakin, so they couldn't be the good guys".
I think it's a bit of both. He did genuinely distrust Anakin and for good reason, Anakin did often disobey the Council and did things his own way just like Quigon did (another reason he should have been the one to train Anakin) and this more often than not always turned normal missions into combat missions when they didn't necessarily have to. That said, he clearly was jealous of Anakin as well, both because of his power, his progression (he was a Jedi Knight and Council member at just 22), but most of all his success. If Anakin hadn't made much of an impact during the Clone Wars Windu could have justified to himself that he was right about Anakin and could believe that it was a mistake to train him. Instead Anakin and Obiwan became the poster boys of the war and by it's end were the most famous Jedi in the galaxy, Anakin especially. And worst of all Windu knew this was because Anakin did things his own way, caring about the individual and not just the big picture. Everyone loved Anakin because he was making a real difference and becoming a household name, but no such thing happened to Windu, he stuck firmly to the rules and never let himself care about any one person, only people in general. At some point he had to admit that Anakin was doing something right even if he didn't want to believe it and this made him angry, that this random kid from a back water planet on the outer rim just shows up and starts doing his job better than him, to him it didn't make sense and it pissed him off.
Honestly, I always questioned mace windu’s interactions with anakin. The vibes I got from mace windu were always that of resentment, dislike, jealousy and more so then anything arrogance. He always seemed like he saw himself as higher then anyone else, more important and when anakin came along, he didn’t like the idea that a small kid was this supposed chosen one. He was against anakin being a Jedi from the get go like he had a personal problem with him. Then in revenge of the sith, he outright said to anakin “if what you say is true, then you will finally have earned my trust” Anakin had been loyal to the Jedi order for years, fought side by side with them, proven himself time and time again, but still he doesn’t have mace’s trust? And supposedly finding out that anakin’s claim that palpatine was the Sith Lord was what would finally earn anakin mace’s trust?! If anything mace and the rest of the Jedi order lost anakin’s trust. Just like they lost Aśoka’s trust and made her decide to leave the Jedi order.
Mace never hated Anakin. Mace was right and it's clear I you look at ROTS. Mace sensed with Shatterpoint the anger in Anakin and chances of Anakin turning. Anakin preferred aggressive actions instead of working to gain peace. He also had tortured Seperatists which was against the Jedi's beliefs. Anakin was also extremely arrogant while Mace often times would brag on Yoda and Obi-Wan.
I like the idea of Mace thinking himself to be the chosen one! Cause to me I always thought it was so odd that Mace was such and asshole to Skywalker, like we see throughout the clone wars that there are tons of pridefully fueled younglings and padawans within starwars mythos. So why would Mace not handle his feelings towards Skywalker more efficiently as a Jedi? I originally believed that Mace was supposed to be a perfect representation of the Jedi at that time. A metaphor, Full of Hubris. Mace totally underestimated not only Anakin, but Palpatine. "Jedi fell long before the purge, stifled buy tradition, deafened by our past glories, blinded by endless war" ~Taron Malicos
He was jealous. I've always said that. Mace thought he was the hottest shit in the galaxy because Yoda was an old man and then Anakin showed up with off the charts potential. He was a dick to Anakin since day 1.
Well I think Windu was correct about the pressure on Anakin and his inability to handle his power and status . Palpatine's praise drove Anakin to believe he was Yoda's equal or even more powerful than both Yoda and Mace .Had Windu not been so hard on Anakin it would have just made him more uncontrollable in my opinion Mace could have been more careful in his handling but Anakin was going down a dark path Mace could see this .
As someone who dealt with exactly the same kind of intentional systematic elimination of any sense of self worth out of fear of "being arrogant" by the people who raised me... it causes a lot of direct harm. It wasn't until I finally got away from that, and was able to actually look at myself for who I am instead of constantly being reminded of all my minor imperfections that I was able to understand not only myself but everyone around me. Even as a child, I was the smartest person in the room for most of my life, so my mom got it in her head that I needed to be knocked down a peg as often as possible, so I wouldn't grow up to be an arrogant douchenugget. So I was cut down and belittled at every opportunity, every time I was proud of my own achievements, every time I was excited to be able to do something. But it didn't prevent me from becoming arrogant... it only made me frustrated at the people around me, who it'd been repeatedly beaten into me should just as capable as I was. I struggled to communicate, because it formed an expectation for them to be able to meet me at my level; I wasn't explaining myself in as much detail as they needed to put the pieces together, and I wasn't understanding them because I reading into what they said far more than they'd thought out what they said. But, because I'd repeatedly been taught that that I'm not that special, that wasn't the interpretation I had at the time. No, instead it *had* to be an intentional choice everyone else was making, because that's the only alternative. Those frustrations became anger, because instead of a misunderstanding, they were doing it out of active malice. So every conversation became a fight to protect myself from enemies trying to hurt me. In no uncertain terms, the attempts to stifle feelings of arrogance directly led me down a dark path that I would not have gone down otherwise. Just food for thought, from someone who's been in a similar (thought not the same) situation as Anakin. I'd like to think I turned out pretty well in the end, and certainly didn't become a serial killer... though it took a lot of work to undo all the harm that the Mace Windus of my life caused.
Can you make your dialogue a little louder in your videos? I have my phone volume all the way up and have to hold the speaker to my ear to hear without headphones but other videos on RUclips are fine. Love your channel!
Windu's own position using Vapaad to channel the flames of his own inner conflict should have inspired Windu to take Anakin under his wing instead of doing all of the things he did. As much as I like him, he's the definition of a hypocrite where the Jedi are concerned, a prime example of a lot of the things wrong with the Jedi that enabled their downfall in the first place. In many ways, Windu acting the way he did in his final moments, although understandable, kinda reveals that he didn't acheive the kind of balance he thought he did because of his own unacknowledged fear, hubris, self-righteousness, and rigidity, the very traits that Palpatine himself observed would be their downfall. If he's alive, I'd love to see a more reflective Mace Windu where he actually has to confront all of the things he did wrong.
I think that mace was the only Jedi to be able to recognize the darkness in anikan because mace knew what it felt like all to well. I think if mace windu and kenobi were switched in time and space, and it was obiwan who had HIS lightsaber to the chancellors throat, anikan would have still betrayed the order to save padme.
I like to think Windu was jealous too. Especially on that bit about bringing balance to the force. He probably did feel he already had that since he channeled both light and dark.
I think "hate" and "resentment" are the wrong descriptors. They suggest a personal animosity that just wasn't there. Windu distrusted Anakin because of his power and personality, but you make Mace sound really petty which I don't think was the case. At least, I can see no evidence of it.
Two Words. Rham Kota. Go look up his history with windu and then tell me windu wasn't a petty jerk with anakin. P.S. yes i know the EU isnt canon now. HOWEVER at the time most of the clone wars and everything else about anakin and mace were written, it WAS. SO it counts.
Dude, I can totally agree with you in everything. I mean Mac Windu achieve inner balance while carrying a purple Lightsaber, he thinks himself so highly, but then some kid comes out of nowhere and he’s looked on in favor. True Anakin’s methods are unorthodox, but what did they expect? He was a slave boy from a desert planet who Medaclorians (I’m not a great speller) were off the charts. And Anakin achieving more wins, scars, and going beyond the old ways of the Jedi almost more like the Je’Daii he sees him as the golden child while he’s a second place. True he wasn’t granted the rank of master, but in Windu’s defense Anakin wasn’t mentally mature. Come to think of it, Ashoka sometimes acted more mature than him. If Windu survived Sidious lighting and somehow meets Vader after 15 years it would probably go like this. Vader: “It cannot be. I saw you die.” Mac: “True my death was greatly exaggerated. But I have become more powerful over the years. And I’ve come to kill both you and the emperor.” Vader: “You cannot defeat us. And I am no longer that foolish man. I am now the lord of the Sith.” Mac: “Don’t embarrass yourself. I was fighting off the dark side since you were a child. Now look at you, a child in a scarred body.” Or something like that. And going behind the council’s back that seems pretty low for him. I mean when Anakin does it it’s not to take life but to save lives.
Windu hating Anakin is actually very UNBECOMING of a Grand level Jedi Master... Shows how MUCH of an enlightened Jedi Mace arguably truly was. Luke's order showed age an attachment ALONE ultimately equaled nothing. As some of Luke's best an most devote members even AGAINST Sith were even Adults when training began. If anything the Old Jedi Orders PR campaign SERIOUSLY failed an was lacking. He could have pointed at Anakin an said "see ANYONE can a Jedi if they are committed and want to enough." Mace being cold an even Hostile as opposed to being the Master he shoulda been as well as being a competent teacher of a likely incomplete but highly effective anti evil Saber style Mace wasn't as fully done learning as he must've liked to think. As for it to TRULY be perfect Vaapadd woulda been something at least MOST Jedi could a been familiarized with. If was TRULY perfect as was likely in Mace's mind, it'd been perfect for straitening out questionable Jedi like Anakin sense Skywalker woulda had to Master himself to Master Vaapadd. An a PERFECT Vaapadd the issue if Jedi falling by using it woulda been solved. The ancient BALANCED Jedi woulda made Vaapadd REQUIRED study an they'd not had the issue of Darkside falls
Stupendous Wave, I ask that you do a vid about what would have happened if Anakin Skywalker and Mace Windu were to have crossed lightsaber's in a straight forward duel during the Revenge of the Sith period. Or at least give it consideration. It could be an interesting follow up to this particular vid, Just food for thought here.
I'm actually surprised the Jedi order would last that long with children growing up without attachments. Children growing up without parents suffer psychological issues. Nurturing a child to adulthood requires psychological support, and attachment. Otherwise the person who becomes an adult suffers deeply from related trauma and ceases to function well. The Jedi would need to raise children with love and support. Ripping a child away from their family to teach them to grow up without attachment would cause far more harm than good. its this very premise that unhinges the entire lore of the Jedi. You can't raise kids without parents. If the Jedi act as parents then they need to know how to love and nurture, which goes against their teachings because that would form connections, and you need that sort of length of time to properly train children in the force. It just doesn't work. I don't mean for this current era of star wars. I mean ever.
That happens in our side of the galaxy, in our planet. In another galaxies far far away old people are stronger when they can trash their children and leave them in external religious institutions.
The Jedi are taught and encouraged to love everybody, including their enemies. They are not raised without love and compassion. They are taught from a very young age to never form attachments because it can lead to jealousy and hate, which is a form of greed. Attachments can not be allowed because change is inevitable, and the fear of losing someone and trying to prevent that from happening can lead them down a dark path of bad decision making. Anakin is a prime example of why attachments are not allowed and that he was already too old to enter Jedi training because he had been with his mother for years and had already developed attachments towards her. Traditional Jedi younglings are removed from their parents immediately once the force is identified within them. They are raised with love and have compassion, though. It is evident with the relationship that Obi Wan, Qui-Gon Jinn and Anakin have throughout the series. The Jedi are taught not to kill, even their enemies, unless they are in a dire situation. There is a few exceptions to this rule, but breaking the Jedi law always comes with a consequence. The jedi code does not ban romantic feelings or love, it only forbids attachments.
All who gain power are afraid to lose it! They're ability to use the force was diminished and so they could not see Anakins future so he was an enigma to be controlled and not to be trusted.
I was going to put out the suggestion that their relationship was similar to that of master and student in martial arts movies where the master never gives any kind of positive word and only harsh criticism. However, looking at it deeper, Mace isn't this at all as masters in those movies who have this personality also push their students very hard striving always to make them better. Mace didn't do this at all as everything Anakin learned and achieved was from other masters or himself. Mace only hindered when he could have helped. The only thing close to kindness Mace had ever said to Anakin was when after Anakin told Mace of Palpatine's true identity, that he finally trusted him, and that may have been the only thing that kept Anakin waiting in the council chamber for as long as he stayed.
Mace Windu was 2nd in command of the entire jedi order. It's not really his job or his role to coddle a whiny, complaining, arrogant little bitch like anakin skywalker. Mace did nothing to "hinder" him. He simply observed with a justifiably critical eye that someone who was immensely powerful in the force was turning into a whiney little bitch, completely incapable of controlling his volatile emotions, and constantly complaining about all the things he Didn't get handed to him. And for all we know, Mace, as we know Yoda did, could very well have made comments to Obi Wan, who was anakins actual trainer/master, regarding these very issues, and we know that Obi Wan commented several times throughout the films and animated series, that he struggled with controlling and training anakin, and educating anakin to control his own emotions. Anakin was too arrogant, too headstrong, and too prideful in his own abilities to have benefited from Anyone trying to tell him anything. Anakin even states in the films how much he admires Obi wan, ("he's as wise as Master Yoda, as powerful as Master Windu"...extremely high praise, I should think, comparing his own master to the two most powerful Jedi in the entire Galaxy), and yet all that admiration and praise doesn't stop him from acting like an asshole most of the time, belittling Obi Wan, disrespecting him, and treating Obi Wan like a sidekick, rather than a Master who should be listened to. Though I do agree with one of the other comments that IF Mace had actually taken him on as a padawan, That might have been able to make a difference. But the story was about the Fall and Redemption of Anakin Skywalker, so, that couldn't really happen.
I haven't watched all the Clone Wars episodes yet. But just from watching the movies I don't feel like Mace Windu hated Anakin. He just distrusted him, and rightfully so. Anakin was immature and quick to get his feelings hurt. Combine that with the massive amount of power he had and it's not a good combination. He was also a terrible judge of character when it came to Palpatine. Windu was right.
It wasn't so much that Anakin was a bad judge of character it was the fact that Palpatine was the only friendly face he was accustomed to since joining the Jedi Order. He was significantly ostricized since the day he joined to the point he became pretty reclusive as a child constantly made fun of for being a slave and an outsider.
Windu should have helped Anakin to hone his darkness and learn Form 7, not set barriers against him!!! His arrogance was the wrong move, even denying the rank of Master!!!
Cannot agree with you on this. He was not “jealous” He did not think he was “the chosen one” He sensed the hate and fear in Anakin which was correct. Though I will agree he went about things the wrong way but so did ALL of the other Jedi. To single out Mace, idk why you would do that says more about you than anything.
Windu couldn't anticipate that Anakin would suddenly become stupid enough to believe that killing young children would somehow equate to saving Padme's life.
Well even with that attachments don't have to be a bad thing I think had qui gon trained him he wouldn't have turned out this way and he was more willing to follow the will of the force as opposed to the council
Always wondered how Yoda sat back amd watched how Anakin and Mace interacted, how he could see that Mace was always pushing Anakin's buttons but still not say "Bro, being a dick you are, chill a bit you should"
Ha ha...funny man.
😂 hilarious this is
How can WIndu be considered a dick when he ended up being right about everything he said and sensed about Anakin. By the way Yoda kept Anakin back more than Windu because he knew deep down Anakin would turn to the darkside tbh.
Lmao but Windu was right about him. Anakin is a selfish piece of shit
@@alcostello6114 👏 Agree with you 100%.
Crazy thing is, if they got Anakin's mom out of slavery - his turn to the dark side would have been avoided.
Anakin must have been confused being surrounded by luxury and powerful people, yet no one cared enough to free his mother from slavery.
If the Jedi council believed Anakin was so important, they should have cared about the boys welfare - even if the Jedi council would not allow
Anakin to see his mother to avoid attachment - Anakin's mother being secure from slavery could have been enough to alleviate Anakin's fears, which lead to hate, which lead to the darkside.
This ---^^ It was the beginning of the end for Anakin. The Jedi council bleeds Republic credits on everything else, not to mention that Qui Gon was literally travelling with royalty. They could have easily paid Watto more than enough for Shmi. If not then, they could have gone back at any time. They then completely ignored his visions about her, and in the end, I believe, were responsible for the massacre of the Tusken Raiders. Having your Mother die in your arms after all of that would be more than enough to want to destroy the Jedi Order. Slaughtering women and children in that camp was just the precursor to what he did at the Jedi temple, and then murdering his wife (and nearly his children). There's no coming back from that. The irony in it all, is that ultimately, the person that Anakin Skywalker hates the most is himself.
Oh, and sidenote - being raised as a slave and then being "liberated" only to be forced to call a bunch of new people master probably wasn't a good idea either. 🙂
Can u say this again for the people in the back of the class!!!!
Palpatine would somehow have her killed tho, making anakin angry.
Shmi was freed. She died later of a random accident, after a 10 years of a good life with her husband.
Bring Shmi to Coruscant, she dies from natural causes, Anakin would still suffer like hell since he didn't understand the jedi way of non attachment.
Nahhh. You gotta remember, the thing that fully turned Anakin wasn’t the slaughtering of the tusken raiders, though the loss of his mother affected him…it was his fear of losing Padmé and his child . He wanted the power to save her, and was willing to do whatever it took.
Because he had beautiful head of hair.... obviously
😂😂😂
And anakin hated Mace because whenever he looked at him he saw himself….. & by that I mean his own reflection in windu’s shiny bald head
@@ClaytonBigsby93 lol!
@@ClaytonBigsby93 😂😂😂
😂
Here's where I always stood: I could justify Mace's and by extention the order's entire position, if they had invested so much into Anakin, to help him through his struggles with attachments, confusion, anger, fear etc. If they had actually tried to train and teach him, rather than just say, "Let go of your attachments they will lead you astray", and after all that Anakin still turned, then maybe, maybe I could understand their side. Yes, Anakin had the deck stacked against him: Older than the typical initiate or Padawan, born into poverty, slavery and oppression thus leaving him emotionally damaged. Blessed with natural and tremendous raw power and potential in the Force, and thus making him superior, even minutely to most of his peers, including some seasoned Jedi. Losing the one person he cared about, his mother, and constantly being told by his superiors he must let go of his attachment to her. Anakin constantly struggled with very real and valid fears that he was never going to fit in as a Jedi and that the Order did not care for him, even Obi-Wan, as very early in their relationship Anakin constantly feared Obi-Wan never cared for him and would abandon him at any moment.
Instead, Anakin got mixed signals. On the one hand, he was praised and held up as a rising star among the Jedi order, constantly told of his being the famed Chosen One to balance the Force. Constantly told he would one day be the greatest Jedi ever. Yet, he was rejected, shunned and always treated with doubt and suspicion by the very Order he swore an oath to.
And if Grandma had balls, she'd be Grandpa.
Seriously, dude was fucked from the start. It was literally written ...
Dude, did you watch the second film? Anakin was unwilling to hold his emotion in check, and unwilling to recognize the risk inherent with obsessing over someone. The dude committed actual genocide. I didn't walk away from that film wondering how Anakin ended up falling -- I walked away wondering how he was ever considered to be the best of the Jedi order.
We can see from the clone wars and the rest of the canon that Obi-Wan lost essentially every person he ever loved, and he never never killed scores of Jedi younglings.
@@andrewgibson7330 Obi wan never had a mother died for torture in front of His eyes.
Obi-Wan was also raised by the Order since infancy so him and Anakin have extremely different upbringings especially regarding emotions@astar2641
You clealry have fallen. Love and attachments arent evil. They can be learned and controlled@andrewgibson7330
To call it jealousy is to ignore all of the red flags that Anakin was displaying. We're talking about Mace, a stickler in the order. Mace didn't want Anakin being rushed into positions of power against the traditional process. Not to mention the fact that Anakin was initiated into the order against the traditional process as well. When a person like Mace is seeing a total disregard of tradition and protocol, of course he will be skeptical.
if qui gon jinn survived...he may have been what anakin needed the most and grew up up following the will of the force.
or he should had been given to mace windu.
We are talking about nine year old
This was in Anakin childhood within the Order moreso than his exploits as a scarred teenage Padawan being thrown in war.
That’s the thing even if that’s true he hated Anakin for no real reason and never tried to help him
@VibesStar23 I wouldn’t say that was why but his ego definitely played a role in his hate. But his jedi ways definitely made him hypocritical
I always took it as being that mace was an institutionalist, deeply devoted to the rules and regulation of the Jedi Order, and Anakin represented a threat to the neatness of that order. He didn't fit in the neat little boxes of younglings and Padawans. Anakin was messy and rough around the edges, and the only one who would have been a good Master for him, Qui-Gon Jinn, was tragically killed. Qui-Gon would arguably have known how to handle him and that would be to look outside the box. Going by the book could yield only failure.
Qui-Gon Jinn has has been killed by the hand of Count Dooku.
@@johanesstromberg3244 No he hasnt. Count Dooku has been killed by the hand of Qui-Gon Jinn
Mace believed Anakin was too undisciplined, and too powerful to be so undisciplined: he was dangerous to those around him, and too close to the dark side. Anakin didn’t like Mace because he saw himself growing in power, and Mace standing in the way of his striving to be the greatest Jedi of all time. This set up a tremendous resentment in Anakin who was resentful of Obiwan’s restraining him from rash actions also. It was noticed that Anakin was neither thankful or humble for his gifts, and immature, and yet powerful. A recipe for falling to the dark side.
Well said. I feel like a lot of people dislike Mace for his interactions with Anakin, and even blame him for Anakin turning to the dark side. However, I feel like Mace was completely right and justified in his concern regarding Anakin. He was certainly showing signs of getting out of control long before he turned completely.
@@matthasahand5495 but people also hated mace for not having faith in ahsoka lol
@@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441 No they didnt
The problem is that Mace was like that since he first saw Anakin. Even when he was a kid who had come there for the first time.All he knew at that time was that Anakin was too old for Jedi training, but he still acted like a Dick towards him.. Like it or not, Mace always disliked Anakin for no reason at all.. Windu could’ve explained it to the Kid rather than being a Dick.. Also, Mace was the same with Ahsoka. So yea, Mace was a Jealous Dick who hated Anakin because he was the Chosen One. I don’t blame Anakin for disliking or even hating Windu, the Guy was a Dick who acted like a Dick and the Bald Head of his made his appearance similar to a Dick too..
@@hadikhan5197 No Mace didn't
In ROTS, Anakin himself was taken aback by Palpatine wanting him to be on the Council. And he was fully prepared mentally for the Jedi to say no. But when Mace told him he can be on the Council but not given the rank of Master, Anakin saw that as a slap in the face and considering it wasn't his idea, received the feeling of Hatred towards him and not the Chancellor. And they were using him as a spy.
at this point if i was anakin i would have left the order right then and there telling them : "if you don´t trust me , you never will" ,
"i have done enough of your dirty work , i fought in a war for you and for the republic and you still disrespect me like this"
"from this point forward fight your own battles master windu" "i suspect my wife may die in childbirth and i seek answers to help her ,
if you deny me the access to the jedi archives and all the knowledge i want to learn
then i´m leaving the order and i´m taking my wife and unborn kid away from all of this
and since you refuse to help me anyway i must seek my answers elsewhere" .
Mace was a huge push to Anakin’s demise.
Also, Yoda dropped the ball in stopping it from happening
I think Mace should have been Anakin's master. Anakin needed a strong father figure that had mastered the fear and darkness with in himself. Kenobi, while a great Jedi had just made Jedi knight and had always been more of a brother to Anakin and also being so much less powerful in raw force abilities would lead to natural resentment in a fatherless teenager taken from his mother and told he was to be the savor of the galaxy. Then assigned to a Jedi that wasn't even a master and with average force potential at that. I would have had a chip on my shoulder as well.
I don't think so, Mace isn't a father figure type. He's the culmination of the deviation from the connection to the Light Side and stagnation of the Jedi unfortunately. He'd emotionally destroy Anakin to the point he'd turn sooner, Obi-Wan has said it, Anakin respected people not dogma.
@@YoungHarlem110352 but what you are forgetting is that mace found balance within himself through the Jedi code and doctrine. With Mace as his master he would he able to guide Anakin to find his own balance and deal with the fear with in himself. Anakin needed a mentor that was a solid rock in character and in the force that almost had the same raw potential in the force as him. Anakin loved Kenobi but felt guilty that he didn't respect him in terms of force use and potential. In otherwards Anakin as any strong headed gifted teen needed the solid foundation Mace would have provided and Mace would have been forced to see Anakin not as the chosen one but as a scared troubled youth that needed guidance from a master that could handle him.
@@HpacEastern Mace was able to find that balance DUE to his upbringing in the Order, he only knew those doctrines and attempted to abide by it (even if it was shaky as Mace himself did fall into some pretty dark tendencies)
His solid character wouldn't have benefitted Anakin because he'd just see it as another form of ostricization as Anakin was the type to attach and form bonds with others, Mace would've attempted to dead that shxt from the get-go which would go against everything Anakin himself stood for. Mace and Anakin together although similar in attitudes and affinities are night and day as actual personalities. Anakin yearned for love, affection from his peers, and kinship. All of which Obi-Wan ended up conceding towards giving to Anakin because he eventually discovered himself the strict by the book method of mentorship the Jedi were accustomed to just wouldn't work and have a more rebellious pushback and cause Anakin to slip further into reclusivity. He was already far too accustomed to lifelong ostricization not to have that the love Obi-Wan gave him and under Mace he'd likely defect sooner.
@@YoungHarlem110352 you're forgetting is that Anakin was a scared boy and not the defiant young man that felt lost and guilty over leaving his mother. A guilt Palpatine exploited and used to turn him to the dark side with the promise of power to never feel that loss again . Anakin the boy didn't get that father figure from Kenobi. Instead that need was exploited by Palpatine. Who in turn slowly poisoned Anakin and slowly got him to act more from his feelings as a Sith would which in turn directly clashed with Mace. I still believe if Anakin would have had a true strong mentor and father figure like Mace, Qiu Gon, Yoda, to trust and lean on as a scared boy him would have been a much more well rounded Jedi and young man.
@@HpacEastern Anakin was no longer a scared boy upon his first year. He was an ostricized child whom the other younglings feared for his potential, jealous of the fact he got to know a life to begin with unlike them even if it was undesirable, and ridiculed daily for being a slave. As a child he became more reclusive from the age of 11 onward and the Order allowed it to do so, even almost condoning their behavior as it was never addressed amongst them. Obi-Wan WAS in fact right to zone in on Anakin's needs throughout the entirety of the canon and not just the movies and taught him based on those assessments as a rigid procedure only continued to bring forth more rebellious action, but again, Anakin valued bonds of comraderie amongst all else and put forth extremely little thought to the Jedi Code. Unfortunately Palpatine knew it too and Obi-Wan alone couldn't mitigate that fact, he was a person that thrived companionship everywhere he could find it because it was absolutely minimal in his life to begin with.
Yoda was an influencing factor in his life, that much Palpatine had also surmised (which slowly began to change as his questions never yielded proper response in his mind.) But his relationship with Yoda was cordial not tight knitted as it would've been with Qui-Gon. Mace would've ended in Anakin's doom as much as it nearly did with Depa Billiba had she continued to fall into the Dark Side before being saved.
The Jedi Order held DIRECT responsibility to most of the screwed up feelings that Palpatine was then able to exploit throughout his entire life. You'd think the Chosen One would be a bit more celebrated but it was met with unwarranted fear and confusion and flat out marginalization. And you're still ignoring the fact Mace was the epitome of following the Code to the T no matter how wrong it was according to the Living Force, his method of teaching would most definitely fail simply because Anakin held no credence or loyalty to dogma, like Qui-Gon himself.
Hot take- even if it was a bad decision it was better to train anakin- cause no way would "we found the chosen one but decided not to train him" have not found its way back to palpatine who would have scooped anakin the first chance he got.
yeah but the vader we would have gotten may be as strong and talented as revan himself.
by the revenge of the sith, vader would probably succeed palpatine in becoming THE lord of the sith and be unstoppable or maybe let palpy get comfortable as vader erradicates all the jedi and destroy palpy when he least expect it.
@@jorgenitales412 oh yeah it would have been awesome to see and i kinda hope we get some kinda star wars what if on it
@@motorcitymangababe also, did you know jango fett was around tatooine close to the phantom menace in legends?
that means if jango and anakin crossed paths then we would have seen anakin become mandalorian.
@@jorgenitales412 ok new want for a starwars what if omgggg
Palpatine already had his eyes on Anakin the moment he showed up on Coruscant so he would have scooped him up on the spot if he left the Jedi.
He did not hate Anakin. He did not trust him, he had good instincts and saw red flags. When he faced Sidious with Anakin by the side, he expected him to help him. Reporting Sidious was something that made Anakin more trustworthy in his eyes. Sadly not for long.
But that's Mace's fault, when he saw red signals, they all had to do something, but they only repeated him dogmas about "repressing emotions" that they didn't even follow, of course Anakin chooses Sidious, he always treated him like a son, with support, Mace decided to give him his trust at the end and after so many slights, and Sidius gave it to him from the beginning without conditions
@@cecily3797 Anakin chose Sidious because of Padme. Because he thought Sidious knew how to save her. He used his love against him. that's why Jedis aren't allowed to be in love. Sidious lured him and manipulated him to the point of no return. Also, Mace was not his master, nor his friend. That was Obi-wan, yet if Sidious did not know about Anakin's fear, and did not use it, I'm quite sure Anakin would not betray Mace.
@@gentleheart7107 Padme was the main reason, but both sides had the same opportunity to help him, he sought help from both, the Jedi told him to hold on and nothing else, Sidious gave him comfort, encouragement and the possibility of saving Padme, the Jedi were being hypocrites because they used the dark side but they demanded to Anakin repress himself, and repressing emotions is not healthy, love or hate, they had to work with him, teach him, but they just said "stop feeling" and that's it. And Mace wasn't his teacher, but 1. All the jedi masters are supportive for whoever needs it and 2. Anakin was the chosen one, with such a big load he was going to need more advice and time, but they just assumed that he would do it somehow, and they neglected him instead of directing him better
@@cecily3797 Neglect is a very strong word....I disagree with that they raised him and protected him turning dark was purely Anakins fault
I felt Anakin made the first attempt to mend; he told Windu everything! Windu then proceeds to ignore his advice, and say he and a couple of Jedi can ‘handle’ Palpatine. If Windu just took Anakin with him; things could’ve been very different. Hubris and ignorance doomed the Jedi.
The Jedi: “Fear is the path to the Dark Side”
Also the Jedi: “We fear dangerous emotions.”
"Discrimination is evil, thus let's discriminate people who discriminate others"
Paradoxes are fine, sometimes they lead somewhere
@@muchanadziko6378 Ya, somehow I don't think being the evil you fight against defeats that evil.
@@Josh-iv2bw I didn't say that actually
@@muchanadziko6378 I actually interpreted what you said rather neutrally as it was hard to tell exactly how you were coming at it. But many people believe being the evil they fight against somehow stops that evil. Whoch it doesn't.
@Nate Higgers they don't though
Only humans do
The fact that the Jedi didn’t go and pay for Anakin’s mom’s freedom also shows how far the Jedi fell from the light.
Yes
Fear leads to the dark side. Windu’s fear due to past events stopped him from showing and guiding Anakin in to the balance he himself has achieved, this lack of guidance was a massive factor in Anakin’s turn. Showing that fear doesn’t just effect yourself, but can have an impact on others as well.
Honestly think windu’s disposition is exactly what was wrong with the Jedi. If he would’ve taken time with him to help him balance the darkness in him the same way he did with himself. I actually think it was what you mentioned. I think he feared how quickly he was become more and more powerful and realizing they will not be able to control him. When in the end it was never their duty or place to control him. As Qui Gon would say. They lost sight of the living force.
The funny part is no matter how much we love anakin, Mace was never wrong to have hus doubts. 🤷♂️ it boiled down to anakin not being strong enough mentally and emotionally and Mace called it from the jump. Mace didn’t rely on prophecies, so why would he be jealous of him being the chosen one?
@@thaiylooze8217 Mace never even took the time to talk to Anakin and sure anakin was well himself. Sure he wanted Anakin to slow down but he never treated Anakin with respect and then he ignored his own jedi code which he hit Anakin over the head with over and over.
You nailed it.
@@thaiylooze8217 Mace Windu could have helped Anakin from the start, helped him become mentally and emotionally stronger, but for years, decades even, he did nothing but look down and doubt Anakin, and you say Windu "called it", sure he "called it from jump" and then for years and years and years he did nothing to help Anakin at all.
@@spadesofpaintstudios1719 I don’t think Mace hated anakin. He actually grew to like him. But to be fair, they broke the code just by letting him in the order.....think about it. They already said Anakin was too old to train. And against their better judgment and against their sacred order, they let him. (You don’t think that’s nice enough? How nice do you have to be before your whole operation is collapsed?) I agree if Mace would have trained anakin then it would have been better for him but again, They were already very lenient on accepting him in the order. And mace was one of the most loyal jedi, so he held the order and their ideals very close to heart. I don’t think it was hate he felt, he just felt that something was out of order.
Of course he missed his mother ! Thats the problem the dogmatic rules. And the dumb strictness of it. Quagon jinn was the perfect jedi he let the living force guide him. Not some strict rules that are outdated. Windu had hate. Fear. Jealousy all traits of a darkside wielder
That’s why he used this style but I guess he screwed everything up
they should have taken anakins mother whit them, and just leave her as a slave as they did, even if she had not been a the jedi temple, but safe, the hole thing could have turned totaly different, but no, 2 jedis decided that slavery is fine.
this statement is exactly why you would have fallen to the dark side, lol. Mace Windu had long since conquered those petty trivialities of emotion. Anakan never did. That's why he failed.
@@Weffi76 no, two jedi's did not "decide that slavery was fine". Did you even watch the films? Quigon Tried to get shmi free as well, but was not able to LEGALLY. But even if he had been able to free her, he would not have taken her back to corascant. How the hell would anakin have learned detachment if she was right there the whole time???. And they could not just steal her from Watto. The jedi would not be the jedi if they did not follow the laws of the land, even in the outer rim. But You're missing the entire point. The whole point of Jedi Training is to develop a detached state of mind in order to be able to control their emotions. Attachment breeds volatile emotions. Volatile emotions lead to the dark side. This is why You would have fallen to the dark side, you would not have been able to gain detachment from earthly and material connections, LoL
@@Thorrnn if that is the case why does everyone that makes these videos say the same thing about mace he showed hate, and clear jealous toward Anakin. The problem with this jedi order is they try so hard to hide and act like they are some emotionless robots thats why most jedi of that time fell so easily to the darkside its to dogmatic
Leaving his mom at that age would be traumatic and the guilt for leaving her behind is a lot for a child
Mace was right to be skeptical. And he was right to continually admonish Anakin for taking the easy paths (with his lightsaber and other ways). This may have played a role in Anakin’s fall but so did Yoda’s blindness, Obi Wan’s hubris in thinking he could begin training the chosen one the same day he became a Knight and council’s stupid acquiescence to the same, etc. The power of Sidious also must be acknowledged. He was manipulating everyone, especially the Jedi. He was the perfect storm and the Jedi were the Andrea Gail.
But if the Jedi order didnt take him in surely they would have worried about the Sith finding him. Palpatine would have a pup Anakin all to himself for free. IF u find a messi or a jordan, you wanna sign them and also sign in their parents. There is a hole in the story.
@@GunmanYeoh At that point they weren´t even certain that the sith were still around, they only had Qui-Gon´s account to go on. That´s why they sent him and Obi-Wan back to Naboo, to "discover the identity of this dark warrior". It wasn´t until Qui-Gon´s funeral that they admitted that it indeed was a sith. Remember, they hadn´t seen a sith for 1000 years. Imagine if some of your friends called you up and said that the Vikings were back, you wouldn´t even take them seriously. The sith being back might have been what tipped the scales in Obi-Wan´s argument with Yoda concerning Anakin. There would be risks either way, he had no way of knowing that the sith knew about Anakin. And they clearly did after he blew up the Trade Federation Battleship, since Sidious greeted him in person and simply said "We will watch your career with great interest".
If we compare with Kestis, he decided to leave the potential jedi untrained. Yoda and the Council´s reasoning might have been similar, that training Anakin would have put a target on his back, meaning easier for the sith to discover and influence him. It comes back to Sidious being at the center of things, because even if Anakin was shipped back to Tatooine in secret the chancellor of the republic could certainly pull some strings to aquire that knowledge. My point with all this is that we need to consider what the characters knew at any given time, the jedi didn´t know the full extent of the threat Sidious posed until they were wiped out. They were basically taking orders from their greatest enemy for over a decade, without having the faintest clue about it.
I wouldn’t consider Obi-Wan training Anakin to be hubris. He did it because it was the last wish of his master. Obi-Wan is a legend, but he struggles with attachment, too. Obi-Wan can’t let things go like, per say, Windu or Yoda. Anakin learning the ways of the Jedi from a man who is unconventional in his own right, had a woman he loved and would leave the order for, and loved his Palawan like a brother when he shouldn’t was not ideal. Obi-Wan trained Anakin to be the hero he was during the Clone Wars, but in the end, I believe the Council’s lack of faith in Anakin was the main catalyst for the fall.
I feel like Mace always knew what the path was for Anakin, from the moment he met him. Yoda suspected it as well, but Mace was on it immediately
He helped paved that road.
@@ClockworkGearhead No he didnt, Anakin did
@@ClockworkGearhead stop apologizing for Anakin and his reckless behavior.
@@nexus7034 stop acting like you are so much better then him. You are not. Never have been, never will be.
Then he should have trained the boy and kept him close to him.
By calling Windu "jealous" you're dismissing a lot of what the Jedi actually value. Power is secondary, especially considering normal people are not effective against Jedi and the Sith were believed long gone. They instead valued judgement and wisdom, because a Jedi with lots of power and talent but no jedi-style wisdom could easily fall to the dark side. That's a much more logical reason for Windu to dislike Anikan, or more specifically Anikan's aggressive, "un-jedilike" tendencies.
They were far from perfect
@@truesoulghost2777 I didn't say they were perfect, I said it's incorrect to assume jealousy as raw power wasn't all that valuable to the Jedi Order.
@@Acoto thats because theyre a bunch of jealous self limiting hippies.
@@truesoulghost2777 yeah they literally created grevious the most notorious jedi killer who was once good.
It's either racism or mace was giving padme the bbc behind the scenes 💯 he was jealous that padme only loved mace for his penis but loved anakin for being him
You hit it out of the park! Mace was not the chosen one, Anakin was, I don’t blame Anakin at all, I would be annoyed also, and yes it was the Jedi Council that pushed Anakin also. Well have a Happy Thanksgiving 🖖🏻
Well said! Happy thanksgiving to you as well
Right on.
2 equally arrogant jedi. If Windu had killed Palpatine in that moment, he would have definitely turned to the dark side. Would have been interesting.
🖖🏿
It was anakins fear of losing padamai that pushed him.
My issue is with the arc where they get stuck on that planet with the father and brother and sister.. it was such an amazing arc to introduce so much lore and help us better understand the force in this universe. But as soon as it ended, that was it there was no...conversation or debriefing of that time, no telling Yoda or the council what happened, for Yoda to add his two cents that even could have allowed Mace to believe in Anikan more....damn... i love Star Wars as a whole and the original 3 movies, but i love how more complex the Clone Wars story was.. theres a part of me that wishes the Clone Wars series could have came first... that way it could set the course, instead of always building towards a conclusion we already knew was going to happen. Its like Dave Filoni really wanted to create something amazing, for which he did, but he was always restricted because in the end it always was going to lead to Episode 3 of the movies for which i think could have been so much better.
Regardless of how he viewed Anakin when he first saw him, he caused Anakin's issues as well. Instead of trying to understand him, he created this idea of him and stuck with it. Who knows how Anakin would have turned out if mace would have helped him.
He would have killed them all even faster lol.
@@khalid749 lol
Who would have thought that teaching kids that emotions are ALL evil results in emotionally stunted adults who can't cope with emotions?
No he didnt
I wonder if windu understood that the "chosen one" doesn't mean good but a catalyst to balance the force, even with great destruction? Balance can mean both sides are destroyed.
Uhhh... obviously not.
Windu was a badass an' all, but I feel he truly did represent the worst of the Jedi of that era: so assured of his own mastery of himself and the Force that it made him arrogant and intransigent; he was also intolerant, mistrustful, jealous, and wasn't above taking matters into his own hands even as he criticised those same traits in Anakin. In their dogmatism, many Jedi of this era were much the same, as Yoda even alludes to in AotC (ironically, Yoda himself was guilty of this too.)
Without the Jedi's inflexible dogmatism, Anakin likely never would have developed such strong attachment-related anxieties. Qui Gon understood this in trying to free both Anakin and Shmi; the more orthodox Jedi chose to stick rigidly to the Code and in doing so forced Anakin into a lonely and unhappy childhood, constantly torn between the demands of his new life and love for his mother (and later Padme.) Ironically, it is the Jedi's fear - their fear of the Dark Side - that created this inflexibility, and so in the end the Jedi did indeed give in to their fear, which clouded their judgement and use of the Force.
Hmm...there are some major issues with this argument, though. Anakin, a padawan, or even as a newly appointed jedi knight who had NOT achieved that rank by trial, regardless of how talented and skilled with the force he was, "taking matters into his own hands" is a completely different affair than Mace Windu, Second in command of the entire Jedi Order, taking matters into his own hands. Mace had EARNED his self assured mastery of himself. He had Earned the right to take matters into his own hands as a leader of the Jedi Order. Anakin was a hot headed punk ass little bitch who didn't appreciate what he had. Left to his own devices on tattooine, he almost certainly would have become a murderer (killing Watto in order to free himself and his mother, and anyone who came after them, just as he murdered ALL of the sand people instead of sneaking in and rescuing his mother quietly and without killing anyone), and would probably have set himself up as a warlord or something. Anakin does not demonstrate innate "goodness" at any point in his life, (except to a limited extent in the clone wars, but never in the films) regardless what Luke says. It could easily be argued that the only reason he turned away from the darkness at all in the end is because he'd been busted and saw a way out of imminent death. His sudden epiphany seemed a lot more like a "I know I've been bad but now that I've been caught and exposed, i'm REEEEAALLY SORRRY, FOR REALZIES THIS TIME", After having spent decades inflicting death, terror and destruction upon the galaxy without a second thought or any sense of remorse. Anakin is competitive and headstrong as a young child. He's arrogant and bitchy as a teen.
To me, Mace Windu saw through the "ooh ahh it's the chosen one" bullshit, and saw that this kid was going to be a problem. A really Big problem. I think it's insulting to the legacy of Mace Windu to imply anything as petty as "jealousy" to a man who had confronted and conquered his own dark side influences to such an extent that he was able to rise to the top of the Jedi Hierarchy, and become the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, (after anakin, or course). Mace didn't like anakin because anakin was an asshole. The same reason no one else liked him.
Yoda saw it too, but for whatever reason, Yoda allowed it to continue. Mace, on the other hand, kept his vigil against the darkness he saw coming.
And as for training him to control his dark side nature...l'm not sure that training the guy who is very likely to destroy the Jedi Order in the only way you might be able to stop him from doing so is really the smartest thing to do. It is possible that if he had taken the time to train anakin, he might have been able to prevent palpatine's influence. But there's no guarantee of that. And how much more powerful would anakin have become if he'd mastered Vaipad Form and still fallen to the dark side?
No, I think think Mace had the right idea about anakin all along and held him in contempt justly for his complete lack of self control, his weakness in his emotional attachments, and I believe that Make could see with clarity the path that anakin was following and didn't like it, and rightly so. Mace Windu was a Jedi's Jedi, not a pussy ass whiney little bitch like anakin.
I'm not absolving Anakin of his own failings or crimes. He was often arrogant and impulsive, and acted selfishly. But I stand by Windu's intransigence as exacerbating Anakin's failings. As Leia says in A New Hope, 'The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers.' Anakin slipped through the Jedi's fingers because Jedi orthodoxy had become so inflexible and controlling.
Anakin did display goodness as a child, in selflessly helping the stranded Jedi and Queen. He also did indeed try to 'sneak in and rescue his mother without killing anyone', only for his mother to die in his arm from the Tuskens torture of her, which in turn prompted his loss of control and murder of their tribe.
Let's say Anakin had been denied Jedi training and 'left to his own devices'; let's say he should have been left on Tatooine because he was too dangerous, in which case he could have ended up 'killing Watto and... etc etc' as you speculate. Would that not be the result of him NOT receiving guidance, NOT receiving Jedi training...?
Anakin was a gifted but troubled child who needed the right mentor (Qui Gon Jinn) rather than the strict, controlling hand of Jedi like Windu and, for all his efforts, even Obi Wan. Windu's misgivings aren't without reason, I grant that; but his (and the Order's) treatment of Anakin is at least in part to blame for Anakin's fall.
Take it from an actual school teacher: the more you treat a problem child like a problem child, the bigger a problem they become. I have been 'the Windu' in those situations myself, and I still regret it years later.
@@xIllMadeKnightx I agree with you 100%. The thing is, even if Anakin hadn't been found by the jedi and had lived his whole life as a slave in Tatooine, the jedi would still have fallen and Palpatine would still have become emperor. Anakin was not a decisive factor in this. It was Palpatine's scheming and the Jedi's blindness that are at fault.
Anakin might have been a decisive factor preventing this, though, if instead of fearing the man a 10 year old slave boy might one day become, they had showed some damn compassion and freed the boy's mother.
@@AnzuBrief Precisely. Thank you.
Yes and yes again.
I also like the fact that you incorporated the fact that Master Yoda was well aware of the cockiness of many of the older Jedi and that not Anakin alone was guilty of this trait.
I also like that you noticed Yoda himself was somewhat guilty of this, and to that effect, their use of the force and thus their judgement had become clouded.
Anakin had a big head and definitely needed a reality check every now and then, but Mace made it impossible for them to see eye to eye. I get being afraid of repeating the mistake he made with Sora, but to outright claim that Anakin lacked discipline and that he needed to figure everything out on his own rather than helping him to achieve discipline was beyond short-sighted and stupid. He believed that Anakin was losing control of himself, but rather than giving him the tools to help him gain self-control and balance, he wrote him off as a lost cause that needed to be isolated and only spoken to when there was a need to reprimand him.
And the fucked up thing is that Mace was just like Anakin at one point. The only difference is that he took the steps necessary to grow out of it and take command of his inner darkness. It kills me that Mace wasn't even aware of his own hypocrisy. He willingly refused to give someone struggling with the same inner demons that he himself conquered any kind of help out of fear, and quite possibly jealousy. Shouldn't Mace's first instinct as a Jedi be to help someone like Anakin manage and conquer their darkness rather than condemning him for having it in the first place?
I honestly think part of why Mace didn't trust Anakin is because unlike Mace himself, Anakin never truly acknowledged his darkness. He never admitted it to anyone, save for Palpatine. And while I can understand Mace not being able to trust Anakin because he couldn't own up to what was going on, Mace shouldn't have expected Anakin to be just like him in the first place. It's hard for some people, especially people like Anakin, to admit that they have a problem and that they need help.
A while back, Stupendous Wave put out a video stating the reasons why Obi-Wan ultimately wasn't the right choice to be Anakin's master. In short, Anakin didn't need a brother; he needed a father. Qui-Gon Jinn may have been the only one who could have kept Anakin from turning to the Dark Side, but I truly believe that Obi-Wan could have helped also under the right circumstances; and I also believe that to be true of Mace as well. Obi-Wan was Anakin's brother, so there was only so much that he could do when teaching Anakin self-control and discipline. Mace on the other hand could have been the father that Anakin needed. He probably wouldn't have done as good a job as Qui-Gon would have, but he would have been able to get through to Anakin in ways others couldn't because he had been through the same thing as Anakin.
Anakin may have even been able to open up to Mace about Padme if things had been better between them. I'm not saying that Mace would have completely understood or supported it, but he may have been able to give Anakin some frank and honest advice. It would probably have ended with Mace convincing Anakin to reveal everything to the Council and leaving the Order of his own volition; and even going so far as to lay down the law with the Council, telling them to leave his kids alone. Palpatine would have probably tried something to keep his hold over Anakin, but the lessons Mace taught him would have given him the tools to fight back and win, saving the galaxy from Sidious' reign. That's what I believe anyway.
Definitely agree considering he practically threw away what he was trained to do out of bias for Anakin being different
That's a lot of neat speculation of what could have been. But ultimately it wouldn't work. For all of Mace's strengths, his hypocrisy and probably jealousy as well would have created resentment between the two, more so than what actually happened. Had Anakin been Mace's padawan, I think it would have driven Anakin into Palpatine's open arms even more forcefully. In the end, Mace was blinded by his love of the Republic. For all the talk of avoiding emotional attachments, Mace was attached to the republic and the power it afforded him and the rest of his Order.
@@daniell1483 You make a good point, but I'd still like to believe that he was capable doing more good.
@@daniell1483 this is likely another possible outcome considering it could really go either way, Mace might of very well just kinda gave up on Anakin but he can control his emotions so I doubt he’d let them get the better of him while actually training I mean he’s not a child. But with the way personalities clash it wouldn’t of worked well at all, but your right for all the talk about no emotions and everything his loyalty and love for the order is kinda what drove him to literally going against why he even stood for.
@@spadesofpaintstudios1719 It is a sad irony that the two would never be on friendly terms as they are very similar personality-wise. Mace being so severe and strict with the rules so long as it doesn't apply to himself isn't too far away from Anakin doing whatever he needed to do to see a goal through. Mace and Anakin clash in part I think because they are too similar. Dark reflections of one another, Mace was what Anakin probably wanted to be as a Jedi; well-known, respected, powerful, the best of the best. Perhaps Anakin reminded Mace of himself in his younger days, and the reminder made him bitter and resentful.
I blame Mace for Anakins disobedience and eventual downfall....
He pushed and pushed... embarrassed him infront of the council time again... treated him like sh*t...
He literally provided Palpatine a means to create Vader by just being a constant d*ck! Lol
And THAT.... is why Mace is my favourite haha
We’re not watching the same piece of art
New idea, maybe it was because Windu’s balance in the force that kept him indecisive. The good reluctance and the bad jealousy. This would a balance to a lot of theories.
Bringing balance in the force, and bringing end to the sith are a bit different. Anakin did bring balance. The Jedi out greatly out numbered the Sith. So buy killing most of the Jedi he brought balance; then again killing himself and Sidious
That’s not what the balance meant. It meant that the Sith was distorting it. Not in numbers.
Windu was ultimately correct...although the Jedi council could have embraced Anakin more. He might not have become attached to padme and lured to the dark side with manufactured visions of her death.
There are many ways in math to get the answer of 4. 2+2, 2x2.. 16/4.. They could have kindled more trust and care for anakin since day 1, accommodating such things, or helping ease his visions.
Anakin was never really lured to the dark side he was pushed away from the light side by the Jedi council
I have to agree with all of that except his attachment to Padme. In fact, I can take it further - Windu's belief that Anakin would end up falling was self-fulfilling, as it led to him taking actions that alienated Anakin.
@@nightfire2004 That sounds like Sith propaganda.
@@nightfire2004 yes to some degree the jedi council were pushing him away, but he was certainly very stealthily lured in to the dark side by palpatine
Jango Fett was the Chosen one, even after death he narrowed the numbers of the Jedi bringing balance to the force. That's why Windu struck him down.
Mace is a big part of Anakin’s turn to the dark side. I never liked Mace’s dismissivness of Anakin and the part of him being the chosen one. There was far to much hubris within the Jedi as a whole. Even with Yoda. And they all paid a very heavy price.
No he isnt, he didnt force Anakin to turn, he made that choice himself
I believe Mace Windu's distrust of Anakin Skywalker was because of his constant disobeying of Jedi Council's orders and Anakin doing things his own way. Most Jedi Younglings enter the temple when they are very young so they do not have attachment issues. I believe the Jedi Council could have avoided this by freeing Anakin's mother and having her live a life where she did not have to suffer. This situation alone could have eased Anakin's need for assurance and allowed him to concentrate better on the Jedi teachings versus him being so combative and headstrong. I don't know how they could have missed knowing about Anakin's attachment issues and showing him how to properly deal with this versus overlooking it and just moving along like it doesn't matter. The Jedi misunderstood the emotions of love and the positive force that come with the assurance of being in tune with someone versus just leaning on the force for all understanding. All beings whether human or alien have these same emotions; for some, they are stronger and without understanding will dictate one's actions when triggered by an event. there should be some Jedi teachings about this and how the Jedi often got this wrong in their earlier dealings with some testimony. Anakin Skywalker is a paradox and an anomaly in terms of the prophecy of the chosen one. Mace Windu's mistrust of Anakin should have made him not only keep a closer eye on Anakin, but he should have extended an olive branch as a mature master Jedi in wanting him to succeed and guiding him to look for other ways to solve his personal demons and problems. The Jedi in the Clone Wars was never really ready to deal with war and all of its consequences as well as the fallout. They should have banded together in terms of helping each other out as well as watching over each other versus just doing the will of the senate in the name of the republic. They failed in not listening to Qui Gon Jinn and giving him a chance to explore his contributions to the Jedi Order. I believe Obi-wan Kenobi was not the best master for Anakin Skywalker. He should have learned from Master Shaak Ti in terms of patience and understanding in how to deal with his problems of attachment. It is his strength and also with the loss his greatest weakness. I believe he could have learned something important from each Jedi master had he the chance of working with on various missions; not just fighting in the Clone Wars.
As much as we like Mace, yeah, he was always aggressive towards Anakin while Palpatine massaged his ego and played "father" to him. I can see that Anakin felt so.
The best of this was probably the episode where boba brought the capital ship down to kill windu. It was windus brash decision that killed Jango thereby leading to bobas hated but anakin got caught. Windu lacked attachments and probably constantly wasted his droids memory and it wasnt able to decide on how to escape there but r2 did. When anakin placed trust on the droid Mace was angry but restrained. When r2 had to leave anakin trusted the droid while Mace talked against it. At the end When r2 came through he praised r2 saying he sees why his mater trusted r2 but when anakin laughs that the same trust wasnt extended to him Mace just says hmmm and ignored everything anakin says. Anakin asked Mace to bring in boba and that was the logical thing to do. Even the jedi way prescribes justice but windu said he would do nothing and called the though that of a child trying to humiliation anakin on this as well.
The way you say decision at 1:53 gives me life
Also let's be clear, Mace sensed the darkness in the boy from the start,and to watch that darkness rise through the ranks,who wouldn't have a problem with that? If the rest of the Jedi had the same foresight and caution as Mace Windu,The Jedi Order would still be around. This boy turned monster destroyed the whole system.
and fulfilled the prophecy of bringing balance to the force
@@ajcolligan4927 Maybe that was the fulfillment of the prophecy. By bringing the end of both the Sith and Jedi order?
But...ultimately brought balance
It is also ironic that if mace windu had given him the rank of master. Anakin wouldn't have turned into the darkside.
@@blade1425 I'm not so sure,Palpatine had already corrupted him and planted seed that took root inside.
I think hate is a bit much he was a dick to everyone but he had no special hatred for anakin in the ROTS novel he seemed quite concerned when anakin was having a panic attack after learning who palpatine was yes he did not trust anakin but I cannot blame him given the circumstances whatever his flaws he did want what was best for the galaxy mace treated anakin the same way he treated everyone else
No he didn't treat Anakin the same watch how he treats obi wan and Yoda compared to Anakin. The only time mace wasn't a complete dick to Anakin was when Anakin told him of palpatine, and he was still a dick just not a massive one when replying if this is true you will have earned my trust
@@timlawrence654 Yoda is a 1000 year old jedi of course mace will treat him with respect as for obiwan its because he acted differently obiwan was humble and was the perfect jedi he was willing to admit his mistakes and there was no darkness in him with anakin there was fear anger arrogance all rolled into one
@@hafeezasif7932 you made my point for me. You said mace was a dick to everyone and Anakin wasn't treated differently. As for those reasons mace felt the same for everyone on the council except Anakin and as for Jedi it was the same Quinlan Vos for example fell to the dark side and still got more respect then Anakin.
@Inyourmumsassisback Inyourmumsassisback Mace Windu= Giant hypocrite. Dont believe me. Go research Rham Kota. ( at the time most of mace's stuff was written the eu was canon so it applies)
@@hafeezasif7932 didn't anakin set a kid on fire in training once? Lol i wouldn't trust him either after that 🤣
Yes I felt Mace could have been a big help in Anakin’s life. He had his own struggles with the dark side. Mace was also in his own way arrogant. They had many similarities and Mace could have shared much wisdom with Anakin.
Mace Windu was not "arrogant". Anakin was arrogant, prideful and emotionally volatile. Mace Windu had proven to himself and the entire Galaxy, that he had worked his ass off to control himself, and he had Earned the right to be proud of his accomplishments. Even so, he was a humble monk in the Jedi order, subservient to the Jedi Code, and aware of his role in the hierarchy of the Jedi Order. Anakin, on the other hand, bitched and whined about not being made a "master" when he'd barely just been made a jedi knight, without ever having taken the jedi knight trials. Anakin was an asshole. That's why Mace didn't like him. That's why nobody liked him.
@@Thorrnn To belittle someone for the purpose of lowering their sense of self worth is the height of arrogance. It doesn't *get* more arrogant than that.
Hostley I think that if Windo was so worried about Anakin then he should've taken him as his Padawan he would've been able to keep a better eye on him and would've probably mentored him better than Obi wan did.
Did he seem to hate Anakin or did he "hate Anakin so much"? He didn't trust him, as he said himself, but he likely knew what could come of teaching someone so powerful the ways of the force if they decided to go Sith; and exactly that happened, not to mention Anakin not adhering to the ways of the Jedi, preferring to solve matters with violence and not peace
At 1:45🤣🤣 “Ultimately his DISHISAN” 🤣🤣
I’d like to see a trilogy where a Anikin didn’t betray everything and turn to the dark side… where he simply let padme die and raise his two children alone…
Padme died because he turned to the dark side, if he hadn't been consumed by fear from his vision she might have lived.
@@davidhatcher7016 I think she would have died in child birth anyway… but I’d like to see a version where he stayed the most powerful Jedi in the universe and didn’t become a severe burn amputee victim lol
Thing is, she doesn't die in childbirth. She dies due to Anakin's betrayal / or Palpatine life force draining her. What is sad is if Anakin didn't do anything, she'd be alive with Luke and Leih
He wasn't jealous he was cautious and rightly so!
Mace could not have waited to consult the rest of the council before confronting palpatine. There was no time to lose mace knew the chancellor must know the jedi are aware of who he really is and what’s to stop him from immediately making a law disbanding the jedi/labeling them criminals ect? Also I believe a factor in his decision to kill palpatine was if he died by mace’s blade that would end all these chosen one talk regarding. Anakin
The only person who could inform him was Anakin and Mace could have easily kept an eye on him by giving Anakin a mission they both had to go on. This alone would have solved two issues 1) would give them time to hash out their misgivings if both were able to be candid...they could come to common ground. 2) deprive Palps of Anakin and thus a powerful force user he could in fact turn.
The biggest issue is...the Jedi denied all of Anakin's "why?" questions with 'until you get older/become a master'. They never sat back and looked at why is this Knight rushing so fast to become a master...let alone understand it.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 waiting for yoda was not an option. Shit even trying to contact him or the off world council members was risky because palpatine could tap into their communications. Taking the best available jedi to confront palpatine was the only option
You completely left out the fact that the Anakin had already lost a hand due to his own arrogance. Mace was simply babysitting the monster that he wasn’t being allowed to stop from growing up.
Thank you, imagine someone telling us the same thing about Hitler? Fictionally Anakin was a greater monster than Hitler in real life.
How can you say that Mace didn't inform the council before confronting Palpatine? He brought them with him to the combat.
He only brought 3, and never told Yoda
I love how you say “possibly himself” still holding hope !
anyone else notice that these jedi go on about being ruled by fear and are ruled by that very fear.
Mace is jealous because he thinks he should have been the chosen one
I am not surprised at all. Windu always seemed to represent the awful nature of the old jedi order: arrogance and thinking they're always right. Something that what eventually brought the downfall.
I agree.
but anakin is not trust worthy he threw a tantrum after being denied the rank of master how can that be a jedi master he wasnt thet arrogant he just saw things for what they where
@@NMFives unfortunately war got him to that point. It was already 2.5 years into the Clone Wars at that point, and Anakin along with Obi-Wan were the catalysts to very necessary victories. He thought his accomplishments were well enough to get him the rank of Master. But that really wasn't the case, but throwing an already scarred teenager into the throws of war was never a good idea to begin with.
@@YoungHarlem110352 well duh, the Jedi only allowed Anakin to be on the council so he could be their snitch. It was humiliating. The Jedi only ever lied or manipulated Anakin for their own benefit.
Mace was like harden steel with a brittle flaw concealed within. Mace also elevated the Jedi protocols to the point of dogma. It would have been interesting if Mace applied his ability of Shatterpoint to himself. I truly believe that if Mace had become a mentor to Anakin, they both would have learned from the other and drastically changing what happened (or Palpatine would have had a plan for the that; an example would be killing one to drive the other to the Dark Side). Another thought, since Mace followed the Jedi protocols so rigidly, wouldn't his decision to kill Palpatine, a defenseless/defeated opponent (a clear violation of the Jedi Code), have lead Mace to the Dark Side?
Ironic. He could see the shatterpoints of others, but not his own.
What a great video . I always thought Mace was jealous
Awesome video! Thanks!!
I think both yoga and windu greatly sensed the lack of emotional maturity in anakin and paired with his raw abilities and strength in the force, could clearly see he needed better emotional self control to be a safe and genuine Jedi Master.
So why didn't they actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT instead of leaving him dangling in the wind if they were supposed to be so wise?
@@jeremyallen492 anakin was hard headed as fuck g lol he was ignorant and didn't see things from all perspectives he just wanted power without fully understanding how things went, he had good intentions to save people but thats why he was easily manipulated by his fears and they did do something about it he was denied that position lmao because he wasnt ready mentally and emotionally anakin thought he knew it all and its obvious but its understandable why he thinks like this because he's the chosen one and he was praised since the beginning so he developed that mindset.
@@jeremyallen492 Arrogance. Simple as that. The Jedi Council were extremely arrogant, self-important blowhards with no wisdom of any real value between them. And trillions died as a consequence of that.
Yeah sure, it was all Mace’s fault. Anakin never meant to kill all those children, did he??? People need to accept that Anakin was fundamentally flawed. The biggest faulty was he refused to listen to wisdom. Sure, he was a great Jedi Knight and an incredible general, but great generals have fallen because they were the same as Anakin. Mace was simply guarded against Anakin, because it went against the better judgement of the council, and it was ultimately because it was Qui’Gon’s dying wish.
True.. Very True
People also need to accept that the council did nothing to address those fundamental flaws, and in fact took actions that exacerbated them. Flaws which could easily have been remedied _had they just hired a damn psychologist instead of telling Anakin to just meditate his worries away._
Sure, it was Anakin who killed the younglings. But it was Mace Windu who continued to pull rank over Anakin every step of the way. It was Obi-Wan who needed to learn to give a complement. It was Yoda who dismissed Anakin's concerns instead of getting him some much-needed help. It was Ki-Adi-Dumbass who initially pressed charges against Ahsoka Tano, Anakin's Padawan, without even being willing to hear Ahsoka's defense. Anakin may have made the choice to turn, but he made it based on his own experiences with how the Jedi council treated him.
Yet the council was so uptight that they passed up Qui' Gon to be on the council multiple times because he stuck out against the order the jedi order was flawed was anakin flawed yes he was he was told you were the chosen one multiple times and yet they held him back rather then help him understand and over the whole 'i'm better then everyone else crap" they gave him shit for it and remember he was slave who was use to having no power but now he had all the power he was so much better than all the younglings his age it was a joke he should of been trained away from the temple by himself
People are not born with their personality set in stone. They become that way due to the way the way their natural traits react to their experiences in life. The Jedi created Vader by failing Anakin as his mentors.
He could sense the forbidding evil deep inside 💯
Using the word "hate" feels like an overreach.
Even without Shatterpoint, Windu ultimately was right. Skywalker/Vader killed possibly billions directly and indirectly, not including his friends and wife, but is forgiven for chucking his boss down a hole lol. Yadda yadda balance. Mace knew dude was bad for business and the one time he trusted Skywalker, he lops his hand off.
I do like your Theory S wave but idk in the phantom menace I think he was just doubtful with Anakin due to him being a kid and missing his mother and in attack of the clones was simply displeased with his methods and immaturity and disobeying the counsel and obi wan many times and I agree with this part that he was viewed as a embarrassment to the counsel and Jedi order revenge of the sith was more along the line of mace being mace at first then eventually being skeptical of him being with padme then his bond with chancellor palpatine causing his to not trust Anakin then even more so with his outburst being denied master and staying a Jedi knight so I think it was normal doubt and mistrust towards Anakin and didn't see it going beyond that
He does hate Anakin , he doesn't trust him two different things
It could also have been an effect of force foresight. If Mace, being very strong in the Force, could foresee on some level that Anakin would be the one to end the Jedi. That foresight might have come across not as a vision but as a feeling, one of intense hatred and distrust for the at the time innocent child. When Mace saw the hold Palpatine had over Anakin this would have confirmed his fears and caused him to switch to killing Palpatine in the hope that this would prevent the coming disaster.
I am always amused by how the Jedi are generally viewed as the 'good guys' and their actions are typically over look. Thanks for highlighting some of the more amusing Jedi traits here; stealing young children to refill the rank & fill of the Order, fear of emotions to the point of instability, create a fighting style designed around feeding off raw emotion that they aren't suppose to have. ^.^
There's no indication they stole childern in the PT era. The closest we see to that is them doing so a thousand years earlier in the Legends continuity and they had undergone huge reforms in the gap. From what we see the parents choose to give their kids up.
The jedis are the good guys, even if they're flawed. Enough with the sith apologists.
"Well the sith destroyed an entire planet but damn, the jedis were somewhat harsh with Anakin, so they couldn't be the good guys".
Is this Disney Lore? Because in AotC, and Legends, Windu was FOR Anakin's Training. He even defended him when Kenobi gave his worries about Anakin.
Personally never got the sense that Mace hated Anakin
I think it's a bit of both. He did genuinely distrust Anakin and for good reason, Anakin did often disobey the Council and did things his own way just like Quigon did (another reason he should have been the one to train Anakin) and this more often than not always turned normal missions into combat missions when they didn't necessarily have to.
That said, he clearly was jealous of Anakin as well, both because of his power, his progression (he was a Jedi Knight and Council member at just 22), but most of all his success. If Anakin hadn't made much of an impact during the Clone Wars Windu could have justified to himself that he was right about Anakin and could believe that it was a mistake to train him. Instead Anakin and Obiwan became the poster boys of the war and by it's end were the most famous Jedi in the galaxy, Anakin especially. And worst of all Windu knew this was because Anakin did things his own way, caring about the individual and not just the big picture. Everyone loved Anakin because he was making a real difference and becoming a household name, but no such thing happened to Windu, he stuck firmly to the rules and never let himself care about any one person, only people in general.
At some point he had to admit that Anakin was doing something right even if he didn't want to believe it and this made him angry, that this random kid from a back water planet on the outer rim just shows up and starts doing his job better than him, to him it didn't make sense and it pissed him off.
I'll always say, Mace was the main cause for Anakin to become Darth Vader...
I'll always say windu went out da window.
1:44 , what an interesting what to say decision 😂
Master Windi "Flew" out the window
Correction, Mace went out the Windu
@@adamc_vp77 I know that, I just said this as the original title of the video said "Windi" instead of Windu
Great video, really well thought out
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS
Take a seat, young Skywalker.
Honestly, I always questioned mace windu’s interactions with anakin.
The vibes I got from mace windu were always that of resentment, dislike, jealousy and more so then anything arrogance.
He always seemed like he saw himself as higher then anyone else, more important and when anakin came along, he didn’t like the idea that a small kid was this supposed chosen one.
He was against anakin being a Jedi from the get go like he had a personal problem with him.
Then in revenge of the sith, he outright said to anakin “if what you say is true, then you will finally have earned my trust”
Anakin had been loyal to the Jedi order for years, fought side by side with them, proven himself time and time again, but still he doesn’t have mace’s trust?
And supposedly finding out that anakin’s claim that palpatine was the Sith Lord was what would finally earn anakin mace’s trust?!
If anything mace and the rest of the Jedi order lost anakin’s trust. Just like they lost Aśoka’s trust and made her decide to leave the Jedi order.
Anakin "I don't care, Mace. You don't have my trust anymore".
Mace never hated Anakin. Mace was right and it's clear I you look at ROTS. Mace sensed with Shatterpoint the anger in Anakin and chances of Anakin turning. Anakin preferred aggressive actions instead of working to gain peace. He also had tortured Seperatists which was against the Jedi's beliefs. Anakin was also extremely arrogant while Mace often times would brag on Yoda and Obi-Wan.
Windu was envious of Anakin's beautiful hair.
I like the idea of Mace thinking himself to be the chosen one! Cause to me I always thought it was so odd that Mace was such and asshole to Skywalker, like we see throughout the clone wars that there are tons of pridefully fueled younglings and padawans within starwars mythos. So why would Mace not handle his feelings towards Skywalker more efficiently as a Jedi? I originally believed that Mace was supposed to be a perfect representation of the Jedi at that time. A metaphor, Full of Hubris. Mace totally underestimated not only Anakin, but Palpatine. "Jedi fell long before the purge, stifled buy tradition, deafened by our past glories, blinded by endless war" ~Taron Malicos
Jedi: We love all beings.
Windu: I hate Anakin.
He was jealous. I've always said that. Mace thought he was the hottest shit in the galaxy because Yoda was an old man and then Anakin showed up with off the charts potential. He was a dick to Anakin since day 1.
"He's too old", he said to the 9 year old, in regard to learning how to use his natural abilities.
Videos like these highlights how much Star Wars lore is so well written, most impressive.
Well I think Windu was correct about the pressure on Anakin and his inability to handle his power and status . Palpatine's praise drove Anakin to believe he was Yoda's equal or even more powerful than both Yoda and Mace .Had Windu not been so hard on Anakin it would have just made him more uncontrollable in my opinion Mace could have been more careful in his handling but Anakin was going down a dark path Mace could see this .
Exactly 💯 💯 💯 💯
As someone who dealt with exactly the same kind of intentional systematic elimination of any sense of self worth out of fear of "being arrogant" by the people who raised me... it causes a lot of direct harm. It wasn't until I finally got away from that, and was able to actually look at myself for who I am instead of constantly being reminded of all my minor imperfections that I was able to understand not only myself but everyone around me. Even as a child, I was the smartest person in the room for most of my life, so my mom got it in her head that I needed to be knocked down a peg as often as possible, so I wouldn't grow up to be an arrogant douchenugget. So I was cut down and belittled at every opportunity, every time I was proud of my own achievements, every time I was excited to be able to do something. But it didn't prevent me from becoming arrogant... it only made me frustrated at the people around me, who it'd been repeatedly beaten into me should just as capable as I was. I struggled to communicate, because it formed an expectation for them to be able to meet me at my level; I wasn't explaining myself in as much detail as they needed to put the pieces together, and I wasn't understanding them because I reading into what they said far more than they'd thought out what they said. But, because I'd repeatedly been taught that that I'm not that special, that wasn't the interpretation I had at the time. No, instead it *had* to be an intentional choice everyone else was making, because that's the only alternative. Those frustrations became anger, because instead of a misunderstanding, they were doing it out of active malice. So every conversation became a fight to protect myself from enemies trying to hurt me. In no uncertain terms, the attempts to stifle feelings of arrogance directly led me down a dark path that I would not have gone down otherwise.
Just food for thought, from someone who's been in a similar (thought not the same) situation as Anakin. I'd like to think I turned out pretty well in the end, and certainly didn't become a serial killer... though it took a lot of work to undo all the harm that the Mace Windus of my life caused.
Can you make your dialogue a little louder in your videos? I have my phone volume all the way up and have to hold the speaker to my ear to hear without headphones but other videos on RUclips are fine. Love your channel!
ORDER 66
" Dew...it "
Windu's own position using Vapaad to channel the flames of his own inner conflict should have inspired Windu to take Anakin under his wing instead of doing all of the things he did. As much as I like him, he's the definition of a hypocrite where the Jedi are concerned, a prime example of a lot of the things wrong with the Jedi that enabled their downfall in the first place. In many ways, Windu acting the way he did in his final moments, although understandable, kinda reveals that he didn't acheive the kind of balance he thought he did because of his own unacknowledged fear, hubris, self-righteousness, and rigidity, the very traits that Palpatine himself observed would be their downfall. If he's alive, I'd love to see a more reflective Mace Windu where he actually has to confront all of the things he did wrong.
I mean evidently, Windu's mistrust of Anakin ultimately became justified 🤔
In a self fufilling prophecy.
I think that mace was the only Jedi to be able to recognize the darkness in anikan because mace knew what it felt like all to well. I think if mace windu and kenobi were switched in time and space, and it was obiwan who had HIS lightsaber to the chancellors throat, anikan would have still betrayed the order to save padme.
I think windu can really cruel to anakin when he first met him.
I like to think Windu was jealous too. Especially on that bit about bringing balance to the force. He probably did feel he already had that since he channeled both light and dark.
I think "hate" and "resentment" are the wrong descriptors. They suggest a personal animosity that just wasn't there. Windu distrusted Anakin because of his power and personality, but you make Mace sound really petty which I don't think was the case. At least, I can see no evidence of it.
Two Words. Rham Kota. Go look up his history with windu and then tell me windu wasn't a petty jerk with anakin. P.S. yes i know the EU isnt canon now. HOWEVER at the time most of the clone wars and everything else about anakin and mace were written, it WAS. SO it counts.
Dude, I can totally agree with you in everything. I mean Mac Windu achieve inner balance while carrying a purple Lightsaber, he thinks himself so highly, but then some kid comes out of nowhere and he’s looked on in favor.
True Anakin’s methods are unorthodox, but what did they expect? He was a slave boy from a desert planet who Medaclorians (I’m not a great speller) were off the charts. And Anakin achieving more wins, scars, and going beyond the old ways of the Jedi almost more like the Je’Daii he sees him as the golden child while he’s a second place.
True he wasn’t granted the rank of master, but in Windu’s defense Anakin wasn’t mentally mature. Come to think of it, Ashoka sometimes acted more mature than him. If Windu survived Sidious lighting and somehow meets Vader after 15 years it would probably go like this.
Vader: “It cannot be. I saw you die.”
Mac: “True my death was greatly exaggerated. But I have become more powerful over the years. And I’ve come to kill both you and the emperor.”
Vader: “You cannot defeat us. And I am no longer that foolish man. I am now the lord of the Sith.”
Mac: “Don’t embarrass yourself. I was fighting off the dark side since you were a child. Now look at you, a child in a scarred body.”
Or something like that. And going behind the council’s back that seems pretty low for him. I mean when Anakin does it it’s not to take life but to save lives.
Windu hating Anakin is actually very UNBECOMING of a Grand level Jedi Master... Shows how MUCH of an enlightened Jedi Mace arguably truly was. Luke's order showed age an attachment ALONE ultimately equaled nothing. As some of Luke's best an most devote members even AGAINST Sith were even Adults when training began. If anything the Old Jedi Orders PR campaign SERIOUSLY failed an was lacking. He could have pointed at Anakin an said "see ANYONE can a Jedi if they are committed and want to enough."
Mace being cold an even Hostile as opposed to being the Master he shoulda been as well as being a competent teacher of a likely incomplete but highly effective anti evil Saber style Mace wasn't as fully done learning as he must've liked to think. As for it to TRULY be perfect Vaapadd woulda been something at least MOST Jedi could a been familiarized with. If was TRULY perfect as was likely in Mace's mind, it'd been perfect for straitening out questionable Jedi like Anakin sense Skywalker woulda had to Master himself to Master Vaapadd. An a PERFECT Vaapadd the issue if Jedi falling by using it woulda been solved. The ancient BALANCED Jedi woulda made Vaapadd REQUIRED study an they'd not had the issue of Darkside falls
Oh Bruther
Stupendous Wave, I ask that you do a vid about what would have happened if Anakin Skywalker and Mace Windu were to have crossed lightsaber's in a straight forward duel during the Revenge of the Sith period. Or at least give it consideration. It could be an interesting follow up to this particular vid, Just food for thought here.
I'm actually surprised the Jedi order would last that long with children growing up without attachments. Children growing up without parents suffer psychological issues. Nurturing a child to adulthood requires psychological support, and attachment. Otherwise the person who becomes an adult suffers deeply from related trauma and ceases to function well. The Jedi would need to raise children with love and support. Ripping a child away from their family to teach them to grow up without attachment would cause far more harm than good.
its this very premise that unhinges the entire lore of the Jedi.
You can't raise kids without parents. If the Jedi act as parents then they need to know how to love and nurture, which goes against their teachings because that would form connections, and you need that sort of length of time to properly train children in the force.
It just doesn't work. I don't mean for this current era of star wars. I mean ever.
You do know that a Jedi Knight is actually just a force weilding monk right? And that monks and monasteries have existed for thousands of years?
That happens in our side of the galaxy, in our planet. In another galaxies far far away old people are stronger when they can trash their children and leave them in external religious institutions.
The Jedi are taught and encouraged to love everybody, including their enemies. They are not raised without love and compassion. They are taught from a very young age to never form attachments because it can lead to jealousy and hate, which is a form of greed. Attachments can not be allowed because change is inevitable, and the fear of losing someone and trying to prevent that from happening can lead them down a dark path of bad decision making. Anakin is a prime example of why attachments are not allowed and that he was already too old to enter Jedi training because he had been with his mother for years and had already developed attachments towards her. Traditional Jedi younglings are removed from their parents immediately once the force is identified within them.
They are raised with love and have compassion, though. It is evident with the relationship that Obi Wan, Qui-Gon Jinn and Anakin have throughout the series. The Jedi are taught not to kill, even their enemies, unless they are in a dire situation. There is a few exceptions to this rule, but breaking the Jedi law always comes with a consequence. The jedi code does not ban romantic feelings or love, it only forbids attachments.
At 1:01 you said "speculative" but I think you meant "skeptical."
All who gain power are afraid to lose it! They're ability to use the force was diminished and so they could not see Anakins future so he was an enigma to be controlled and not to be trusted.
I was going to put out the suggestion that their relationship was similar to that of master and student in martial arts movies where the master never gives any kind of positive word and only harsh criticism. However, looking at it deeper, Mace isn't this at all as masters in those movies who have this personality also push their students very hard striving always to make them better. Mace didn't do this at all as everything Anakin learned and achieved was from other masters or himself. Mace only hindered when he could have helped.
The only thing close to kindness Mace had ever said to Anakin was when after Anakin told Mace of Palpatine's true identity, that he finally trusted him, and that may have been the only thing that kept Anakin waiting in the council chamber for as long as he stayed.
Mace Windu was 2nd in command of the entire jedi order. It's not really his job or his role to coddle a whiny, complaining, arrogant little bitch like anakin skywalker. Mace did nothing to "hinder" him. He simply observed with a justifiably critical eye that someone who was immensely powerful in the force was turning into a whiney little bitch, completely incapable of controlling his volatile emotions, and constantly complaining about all the things he Didn't get handed to him. And for all we know, Mace, as we know Yoda did, could very well have made comments to Obi Wan, who was anakins actual trainer/master, regarding these very issues, and we know that Obi Wan commented several times throughout the films and animated series, that he struggled with controlling and training anakin, and educating anakin to control his own emotions. Anakin was too arrogant, too headstrong, and too prideful in his own abilities to have benefited from Anyone trying to tell him anything. Anakin even states in the films how much he admires Obi wan, ("he's as wise as Master Yoda, as powerful as Master Windu"...extremely high praise, I should think, comparing his own master to the two most powerful Jedi in the entire Galaxy), and yet all that admiration and praise doesn't stop him from acting like an asshole most of the time, belittling Obi Wan, disrespecting him, and treating Obi Wan like a sidekick, rather than a Master who should be listened to.
Though I do agree with one of the other comments that IF Mace had actually taken him on as a padawan, That might have been able to make a difference. But the story was about the Fall and Redemption of Anakin Skywalker, so, that couldn't really happen.
I haven't watched all the Clone Wars episodes yet. But just from watching the movies I don't feel like Mace Windu hated Anakin. He just distrusted him, and rightfully so. Anakin was immature and quick to get his feelings hurt. Combine that with the massive amount of power he had and it's not a good combination. He was also a terrible judge of character when it came to Palpatine. Windu was right.
It wasn't so much that Anakin was a bad judge of character it was the fact that Palpatine was the only friendly face he was accustomed to since joining the Jedi Order. He was significantly ostricized since the day he joined to the point he became pretty reclusive as a child constantly made fun of for being a slave and an outsider.
And who raise like that I wonder
Windu should have helped Anakin to hone his darkness and learn Form 7, not set barriers against him!!! His arrogance was the wrong move, even denying the rank of Master!!!
Cannot agree with you on this.
He was not “jealous”
He did not think he was “the chosen one”
He sensed the hate and fear in Anakin which was correct. Though I will agree he went about things the wrong way but so did ALL of the other Jedi.
To single out Mace, idk why you would do that says more about you than anything.
Windu couldn't anticipate that Anakin would suddenly become stupid enough to believe that killing young children would somehow equate to saving Padme's life.
Well even with that attachments don't have to be a bad thing I think had qui gon trained him he wouldn't have turned out this way and he was more willing to follow the will of the force as opposed to the council
The convenience factors into the equation, or lack there of it.