Nice to see Dave has some competition. Can't wait for your 2nd video of disagreements. This is going to be friendly rivalry at its best. Keep em coming, Charlie
I'm glad you are doing this. I enjoy Hurwitz's videos too and I agree they are usually very entertaining. The problem, which I think you are addressing, is that his audience is very large and many of his listeners who are not more tuned into the classical recording scene, take his views about performances as if he is the last and only word regardless of the fact there are other critics out there with no youtube channels who disagree. For all his entertaining joviality, he can also be a horse's ass especially in replies to comments. My major run in with him is his near dismissal of conductorJascha Horenstein, where he is at odds with a majority of previous critics. He usually refers to people who admire someone he doesn't as cultists. In regards to Horenstein, he has single handedly destroyed the conductor's reputation to the sad dismay of Horenstein's surviving family. I do not like every recording Horenstein made, but his Mahler 1 and 3 and Nielsen 5 for Unicorn are reference recordings as far as I'm concerned and suffice it to say, Dave and I have exchanged words on this. His recent mediocre Mahler series was an embarrassment. Anyway, it's nice to see someone push back on youtube. Hurwitz is knowledgeable, but not the last word by a any measure of reality.
Well said indeed. He's a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde character: all cuddly and jolly in the videos (although the mask does occasionally slip when talking about alternative views in the comments!); but, as you say, in replies to comments we often get an inconguously surly Dave -- especially if you're not sucking up! I came across one of the Horenstein bashing videos (where he'd more or less dismissed everything), and mentioned that the Rachmaninov Piano Concertos (with Wild) I thought were outstanding (the only Horenstein I'm familiar with, actually) and his reply was along the lines of "I refer you to my video on these works", etc. Another comment, where I pointed out that English Horns aren't the same as Basset Horns got deleted! I enjoy the videos (usually), but you have to walk on egg-shells in the comments! (I'm on the look out for a Nielsen 5 -- hope to check H's version out!)
@@CloudyMcCloud00 Jeckyll & Hyde is a good analogy. He's not fond of pointed disagreement, or anything that he can even loosely classify as off topic. Then again, it's HIS channel, and he can delete whatever he wants.
@@CloudyMcCloud00 The Rachmaninov concerto cycle with Wild is indeed excellent. The two Mahler recordings I mentioned were long considered standards for these works. They were nearly universally praised in the record magazines at the time.The studio recordings he made with LSO and New Philharmonia put him on the map. His previous Vox stuff is not bad, but often marred by not so great sonics and less than great orchestras. The stereo recordings he did for Reader's Digest with good orchestras are very fine...they include a Brahms 1 and a fine set of Strauss Waltzes among other things. You won't be disappointed with the Nielsen...there are two actually, a studio version originally realeased on Unicorn and an excellent broadcast on BBC Radio Classics (which also includes Bryden Thomson's Nielsen 2). I've had a number of my comments deleted by Dave...but none of them were mean spirited...just disagreeing and telling him why. At least he hasn't banned me.
@@paxpaxart4740 No, I'm not banned yet. But he talks about it quite a lot, so I try to play it safe! I had a look for the Nielsen -- but presently can only find for £50+ on CD: a bit too steep for me but I'll keep an eye out. Thanks for your reply.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed. I agree with you about the Thompson RVW symphonies. Not perfect, but pretty good, and better than Dave's assessment. I've followed Hurwitz for many years, both in print and more recently online. As critics go, I think he's better than most, though he has his particular musical prejudices like anyone else. I find his breadth of knowledge of the genre, its composers, and its practitioners over a broad period of time makes him a great resource for most classical buffs. As to his opinions, I've found over the years that if he thinks it's good, it usually is. If he trashes it, usually not so good. Many exceptions, of course, like this one. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant. As he often says, "Like what you like."
I can't tell you how much I respect your outlook on Dave's channel; I love watching his material and respect it very much and learn a lot even with my classical music obsession since the late 80's. I really respect him and learn a lot from him., but there are some recordings I have a bit of a hard time with...like "The Rite of Spring." I have collected recordings of this work for 35 years and own over 80 different recordings. My concertmaster friend finds it amazing. The best, by the way, are Markevitch and the Philharmonia from 1959 and the Boulez with Cleveland from 1969. Chailly with Cleveland is a close third .I have around 85 different recordings of this piece on Lp, cassette, and CD and SACD.
Putting it out there. Another plug for Bryden Thompson is that he did a great set of recordings of the six Martinu symphonies, which Dave Hurwitz was favourable to.
Thomson's recording of the 4th Symphony was my introduction to the music of Vaughan Williams, and it might still be my favorite single Vaughan Williams CD to this day. I also love the cover art on this cycle. It introduced me to the paintings of J.M.W. Turner and he is my favorite artist to this day. I look forward to more videos in this series. Who doesn't love a good disagreement?
The Thomson recordings were the first Vaughan Williams recordings I bought because at the time they were almost the only ones you could find in the early days of CDs. I see them, for me, as an alternative, valid ones, to the other ones I might like a little more. They're broad, and lush and deliberate and well recorded, and when I'm in the mood for that approach they're there for me.
This is going to be fun! I love Dave Hurwitz's reviews, which I find informative and entertaining. I am aware that Dave is of the faster persuasion, i.e., that he thrives on recordings taken at a brisker pace, whereas I tend to enjoy slower performances. I guess it all comes down to what the performer feels while actually doing the music. As far as Vaughan Williams go, I have the Boult box but I don't listen to the CDs as often as I should. As Janis Joplin used to sing, I must make amends. After this review of Bryden Thomson (and Leonard Slatkin), if I find a box in a record shop and it's at a nice price, I'll buy it. One thing I must say, your humming sounds better than Dave's :))
Yep. My theory is he prefers faster versions as he's decided to get through literally the entire discography and so he needs them to be quick so he can eventually get his dinner!
I'm a slow fan too - Celibadache & Goodall etc etc, but find some speedier versions of my various slow works quite a revelation. Eg: I have a John Elliot Gardiner Beethoven 9 that positively races through - it's different that's for sure, but it's coherent and very exciting, something i thought would be impossible.
Well, hello! Who are you?! 😁 Nice to find your channel. I watch Dave's vids just about every day. I agree with his take on things the vast majority of the time. I also disagree with him about Thomson's RVW cycle! So you're an interesting find. No. 1. I was irked that Dave didn't even talk about this one. I agree with you. It's gorgeously played, sung, & recorded. It's a stunner & is at the top of my list with Boult/EMI. Yvonne Kenny is amazing, one of the best, but I like Sheila Armstrong better. I do NOT enjoy Brian Rayner Cook's voice though. No. 2. My favorite recording of this. I really like Thomson's pace in the Scherzo. It's a "Nocturne," & I think Thomson's pace emphasizes the nocturnal quality. No. 3. I always read unfavorable things about this recording & am always baffled. It's exquisite in every way. The recent one by Martyn Brabbins is a stunner & up there, too. No. 4. It's just crash/bang/boom exciting & beautifully played. No. 5. This is my favorite recording of my favorite RVW Symphony. It just glows & glows & glows. Remarkable from start to finish. No. 6. Probably Thomson's weakest effort here. I find it a bid muddy, especially in the scherzo. No. 7. I find other recordings have a bit more snap & snarl. No. 8. Extremely good, but like you I just don't listen to work much. No. 9. I actually think this is one of the greatest recordings of this piece. I'm going to give it another listen & pay attention to what you said about the percussion. So what does that add up to? For my money, an incredibly consistent cycle, with a couple of misses vastly outweighed by some glorious recordings of the front rank. It's my favorite RVW cycle on the whole.
I was a student Edinburgh when Thomson was Chief Conductor of the RSNO, I went to many of his concerts. Apart from Martinu and Nielsen, I don't recall much of else he did that was distinguished. The RSNO didn't sound great under his baton, I found him a to be uninspired in the core classical and romantic repertoire. I'll definitely 'give his RVW cycle a go. I think I listened to a 1 disc. For the 4th, Dave recommended Berglund. It's a taught and intense performance that never slacks. Wow! Great to see such enthusiasm for RVW around the world. In the UK we suffer from a lack of performances on 1-4 and 6-9. Everyone wants to play the 5th. The commercial classical stations pump out the Tallis Fantasy, the Lark and Greensleeves on a near daily basis. It's so depressing. I want to scream at them to play some of the later works or the gritty ones! Antonio Pappano is slowly working is way through the symphonies, a performance of the 9th the LSO planned for December. I am hoping his time with the orchestra will be a golden age in the mold of Previn or Sir Colin Davis.
In my 70 years I've learned one thing about classical recordings: there is NO "best". A truly great work of music can be interpreted many ways and not be diminished. I picked up a lot of Bryden Thomson's work as they came out and I've never been disappointed. It's a terrific RVW set. Of the three Bax cycles, I prefer Thomson's. And Thomson's Elgar symphonies are outstanding. Another conductor who died way too young.
Dimitri Bashkirov her teacher Anastasia Virsaladze teach saying to Bashkirov the most important lesson is the love of beautiful colorful piano sound! This was already in 1930s! Really Shocking! All the beautiful colorful piano sound players are gone dead like Wilhelm Kempff Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Artur Rubinstein Vladimir Ashkenazy Grigory Sokolov! All the modern players are cold colorless dry piano sound players like Kissin Zimerman Pletnev Hamelin Yuja Wang and latest hype student Yunchan Lim!
@@RaineriHakkarainen Grigory Sokolov is alive and kicking actually. He's only 74 and probably has a good few years left in him. Vladimir Ashkenazy retired but is also still alive. What's your opinion on Bertrand Chamayou? One modern pianist who doesn't sound like your run-of-the-mill super virtuoso circus monkey. He recorded a CD with 2 piano concerti and some solo works by Saint-Saëns and he's the only concert pianist to date whose recording of the Etude en forme de valse is (almost) on the level of Cortot's legendary 1919 acoustic recording.
@@RaineriHakkarainen Zimerman, Pletnev, and Lim cold and colorless? Ha. I'd love to play obscure recordings for you and see if you could actually tell whether one of these "dry piano sound" pianists is playing or one of the old guys. Wang, Hamelin, and Kissin also play with as much color as many of the older pianists, they're just less aligned with my tastes. Also interesting that Horowitz isn't on your list. And what about Argerich, Uchida, Lugansky, Blechacz, Laurent-Aimard, etc.?
I strongly agree that Thompson's Vaughan-Williams cycle is among the best, but then again I like the Haitink performances and I don't think anyone like those.
Bryden Thomson also did a superb Walton 1 for Chandos that has, in my opinion, been somewhat underrated. I too watch Hurwitz's reviews and, like you, find them entertaining and informative. His lifelong experience really shows. My main negative is his quick dismissal of many recordings which many of us still value despite changing times - Karajan in Bruckner for example. Discovered your channel today so will listen with interest!
A rather big problem with Hurwitz is his ego. I once corrected him about the Kempe "Sheherazade" when he said it was the Berlin Philharmonic. I wrote to him that it was in fact Royal Philharmonic and he didn't like being corrected at all. This was in the context of him boasting about being able to recognize orchestral sound.
I agree, though in the years since he started his RUclips channel, he has softened a bit on accepting corrections. He sometimes even graciously acknowledges them.
@@thomasroth4533 You proved my point by criticizing my point while being full of shit - thought I smelled something from a mile away. Now go away, no one cares about your opinion.
The best VW 8 is the first. Barbirolli on Nixa and Mercury. The PRT CD issue is very pure and doesn't try to fix any sound issues. It's absolutely the most colorful and engaging VW8 ever.
Although I live in Oregon, I’ve been a proud member of the Ralph Vaughan Williams Society for decades, and I agree with you that Bryden Thomson’s recordings of RVW’s symphonies are well worth acquiring. That said, with reference to Aaron Copland’s remark that RVW’s music reminded him of a cow looking over a fence, Copland was referring to the Pastoral Symphony, not the 5th. In fact, in the early 1940s, when asked during an interview whether he still felt as he did about RVW, Copland said “The symphony in F Minor and subsequent works have given the lie to that statement.” Anyway. Charles, thanks for another great video!
It was Peter Warlock (aka Philip Heseltine) who said of the 3rd (Pastoral) Symphony that it was "all just a little too much like a cow looking over a gate." He was a partisan of Delius. He killed himself.
He must have been a city boy. There's nothing wrong with a cow looking over a gate. I saw lots of them on my grandfather's farm when I was growing up in Indiana back in the 1950's. I thought they were pretty spiffy then, and still do.
Hey, Charlie! Glad to see that Dave has newly-formed "competition." I recall Dave trashing Haitink's VW set, as well, which I thought rather cavalier, as it is quite good--- on all levels. I don't know whether you've heard it or not, but, if not, try to. Previn's VW, especially the "Antartica," has been a long time favorite; Haitink now, though, is right up there.
The first RVW symphony I ever heard was Antarctica with Haitink. It has some good spots like a great organ sound. But generally the Haitink is way too slow and plodding overall. The Previn for me is great, although I think he messes with dynamics in the organ section. Plus, I hate the spoken intros to each movement. You just don’t need them. Best version hands down is Slatkin for me.
@@charlescoleman5509 Interesting! I guess that's what I like about the Haitink, Charlie: his pace gives one time to fully "digest" VW's ideas. Previn messes around with most things, VW, or not; the Slatkin I've not heard. Per RR's intros: I've always thought they've added gravitas, but that's just me (I guess). Cheers!
@@melvynmsobel210 Yeah, I'm a HUGE Ralph Richardson fan, and so of course that puts Previn's Antarctic Symphony at the top of the heap for me. And for anyone who doesn't like the spoken intros, just program your CD player to skip those tracks!
@@twwc960 The Previn was the first VW "Antartica" that I heard--- maybe 50 years ago--- and, because of RRs intros, it remains indelible. It took me quite a while to get used to hearing the symphony sans voice. And, yes, programming out the intros would work; but, naturally, this would be anathema to us (heh, heh, heh).
Hi there! Like the way you start out with reletivating your "disagreement" with Dave. People are way to inclined to focus on the disagreements than on the similarities.
I'm pretty sure I have been disagreeing with Dave Hurwitz ever since he was posting to rmcr in the late 90s. Not always, but quite a bit. I also read his vibrato essay and disagree with most of his Bruckner reviews. Keep doing this. I like Thomson.
I’m sure Mr Hurwitz is a decent human being. His bewildering, largely negative, opinions of JS Bach’s music, however, put into question the soundness of his musical judgments writ large
Hurwitz isn't the only critic who allows doubts about Bach. W.J. Turner for one, as quoted by B.H. Haggin. "...while the prodigious technical skill may interest and amaze the academic musician 'with the score in his hand and his soul Ling defunct' for Turner it is valueless unless it is as expressive as it is accomplished." "One hears always the prodigious powers of invention and construction, but frequently an operation that us not as expressive as it is accomplished." I do think Dave objects to some of the very dour and self-lacerating texts Bach had to set and I agree with him there. Also that so much of Bach is incomparably great. But not all.
Hurwitz doesn't suggest Bach isn't one of the greatest composers, he just says he doesn't care that much for a lot of Bach's output even where he can recognize the genius and that he personally prefers Handel from the same time period. Nor does he deny how much Bach influenced many composers who came after him. I don't see a thing wrong with his position on Bach, and would rather see a critic be honest about his own preferences instead of saying to be a critic I must say Bach is the mountaintop and nobody else approaches him. I am by no means a sycophant for Hurwitz, who I think often contradicts himself and can be a little too nasty with anybody who disagrees with him.
My read between the lines on Dave’s Sea Symphony video is that he’s simply not too keen on the piece. He definitely prefers that the 4th movement move along (too schmaltzy?), and he says he HATES Whitman which is def starting with 2 strikes.
Let me suggest "Das Rheingold Donner Summoning the Mists" as your opening "conflict" thematic music with the charming Mr. Hurwitz. Make sure to get Donner (Thor) striking him hammer on the anvil and producing the magnificent sound of a thunderstorm to accompany your conflicting recommendation. (Edit): There is an even better version from Bayreuth here - put this in search in RUclips (Gerd Nienstedt -- "Schwüles Gedünst...He Da! (Donner's Call) -- Das Rheingold).
Hello Charles, a very interesting and valuable new show from you. First of all, my opinion about Dave is that he is all about himself in his own microcosm and a lot of his reviews are completely prejudiced. Nevertheless, I appreciate his channel because, in addition to Dave's undeniably profound knowledge of classical music, I also think he has a very humorous side. As far as Christian Thielemann is concerned, my opinion is that Dave's view of Thielemann is completely overloaded with prejudices. However, like Dave, I don't think Andris Nelsons' Bruckner cycle is well developed. Nevertheless, his view of Thielemann and here especially of his Bruckner cycle. That has nothing to do with reality. These are pure, clear prejudices. I think your idea of objectively highlighting such contrasts between reviews of classicical works is a fantastic idea and very entertaining. I'm really looking forward to your next episodes.
I agree that there are certain artists Hurwitz doesn't like...Rattle, Thielemann, Horenstein, Nelsons, Makela...I also think he thrives on being a contrarian to other critics.
On the Sea Symphony, don't overlook Howard Arman with MDR forces in Leipzig. Because he is a choral trainer he gets the most out of his singers and the clarity of the recording is exceptional.
I agree that several of Thomson's versions are among the best, often in wonderful sound. At the time when it became known that Chandos would be doing an RVW cycle, it was generally assumed that Vernon Handley would be assigned to it. Many were disappointed when Thomson was hired, but by and large he did RVW proud. The only real letdown is the 6th Symphony, which is lackadaisical and sloppy. The 8th lacks a bit of punch and colour. The 9th however is very good indeed, much better than Andrew Manze's as-slow-as-possible recent take on the piece.
Hi Chuck, Welcome to the world of musical criticism. May the gods be with you. I disagree with Dave a lot. I agree with Dave a lot. I'm pretty sure the same will be true with you. Music is like visual art. What you hear is what you hear v. what you see it what your see. I like that you hear things differently than Dave. Perhaps your ears are different. Maybe better. Maybe not. Maybe it has nothing to do with how we hear. Who knows? Why is that a problem? Lest I become tedious, let me propose that we all have our own perceptions of what is good, better, best, and all of them are genuine and true for us at this specific period in time but can all be changed as we grow (or shrink) throughout life and our journey into the world of music. I love the changes. I love the variety. I love the ambiguity. I love the journey. Keep the faith.
In Thomson's performance of the first movement of the 6th Symphony, the initial tempo matches Vaughan Williams' metronome marking; therefore, Thomson's starting tempo is not 'too slow'. The second movement is faster than other performances and does not drag, with the climax being one of the most terrifying moments in the entire Vaughan Williams discography. The Scherzo is massive, evil, and merciless as it should be - the brass section is absolutely amazing, with monstrously terrific horn, trombone, and tuba parts! The ending of the work is not too slow either and is deeply performed, with the orchestra being perfectly balanced and sensitive. The main issue with this recording is the questionable quality of the sound engineering. Slatkin, on the other hand, sounds mechanical and inexpressive, with no sense of agogic. Andrew Davis with the BBC Symphony is a much better alternative if you look for a 'faster' performance.
I agree that Hurwitz drastically underrates Thomson's Vaughan Williams. I disagree with you though that Thomson's 6th is too slow; Berglund shows how effective it can be even at much SLOWER tempos. And Previn's is the greatest 9th of all: Depth, breadth, weight, power, beauty, and mystery. Especially mystery -- no one does those final closing bars the way he does. Previn actually beats everyone for consistency across all the symphonies; it's just that his 1970s recordings sound too dry and faded sonically to be competitive anymore.
I almost always agree with the facts Dave presents but not always the conclusions he makes. A couple Mahler recordings I disagree with him about: Mahler 5 Karajan - he praises this but the rhythm and ensemble is so sloppy. Mahler 10 Vänskä - he says this is just ok but I really believe this is the best recording of the work. The 2nd movement is the best ever recorded. The strings in the finale are so glorious. I’m sick of listening to M10s with crappy percussion, particularly weak cymbal “taps”. That is such an unidiomatic sound in Mahler and they seem to plague most recordings
@@Kyle-ur4mr I know that Dave doesn't like Horenstein's Mahler but I heard the finale of Mahler 8 on the car radio without knowing it was Horenstein conducting and thought it was wonderful!
Nice talk, Charles - always good to have more musical opinions on RUclips, but to get the kind of clicks Dave gets, you need to have a cat. Just saying.😀
His dismissal of Simon Rattle and Horenstein are ridiculous. Best to ignore him sometimes. It's just personal opinion. That is all. Maybe he's upset because they didn't play with his community orchestra.😊
@@ahartify Dave definitely likes Szell for the most part. But he did point out that Szell did a not so great recording of Janacek’s Sinfonietta. Mainly because it’s too restrained and safe. All the more reason why Kubelik and Ancerl did it so much better.
@@charlescoleman5509 That"s good to hear! I am prejudiced towards Claudio Abbado myself, and even though Abbado has made some lacklustre recordings, I feel that Dave doesn't see his finer points and underestimates him.
@@charlescoleman5509Sharing an lp with the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra which is ruined for me by that dreadful and high handed cut in the last mvt. Probably Szell's worst record.
Reading comments here. To be straight with you I find this weirdly parasitic, even though I might agree with you on some things. Interesting to see Dave following being critical when they are oh so nice on hi channel. I’m lucky enough to have met Dave and can confirm that he’s funny, has an amazing memory, but more importantly is very kind. So it might be a laugh I suppose but this strikes me as a channel where if you have the talent you should be doing something better. Sorry.
@@murraylow4523 Thanks for your comment. And since you asked about stuff that I do that is “better”, here’s a link to one of my pieces. ruclips.net/video/8HyDvJ61tW4/видео.htmlsi=5xfXkjtz4XIeUlCl
@@murraylow4523Personally, I just happen to enjoy doing this sort of thing when time permits. Being a musician, I’m obviously passionate about this amazing music from the classical genre and want to present it to wider crowd via this channel. When Dave Hurwitz created his RUclips channel during the lockdown of 2020, he provided a portal that had not existed before. Through his great intellect and distinctive sense of humor, Dave has enhanced an awareness of this amazing genre that had not been done before. And he inspires me to attempt to do the same. I won’t argue with you about my talents or lack thereof, because it would be a foolhardy rabbit hole type of discussion. I’m just very appreciative of the mostly very kind comments people have said to me here. 😊
@@charlescoleman5509 understand but I hope you can find your own way to do the admirable things you say, else it’ll,just turn into a moaning about Dave back channel alas (looking at the comments it is already)
Here’s another one of my pieces. Which was premiered earlier this month. It was commissioned as a companion work to Messiaen’s ‘Quartet for the End of Time’, also on the program. Love to know what you think. ruclips.net/video/tJvE09ryaig/видео.htmlsi=PtNEf01s_Bez-osF
I haven't heard the Thielemann. Bruckner cycle yet , but. I have a much higher opinion of. Thielemann's conducting than. Dave Hurwitz . I'm convinced he's one of. the greatest living conductors .
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice to see Dave has some competition. Can't wait for your 2nd video of disagreements. This is going to be friendly rivalry at its best. Keep em coming, Charlie
I'm glad you are doing this. I enjoy Hurwitz's videos too and I agree they are usually very entertaining. The problem, which I think you are addressing, is that his audience is very large and many of his listeners who are not more tuned into the classical recording scene, take his views about performances as if he is the last and only word regardless of the fact there are other critics out there with no youtube channels who disagree. For all his entertaining joviality, he can also be a horse's ass especially in replies to comments. My major run in with him is his near dismissal of conductorJascha Horenstein, where he is at odds with a majority of previous critics. He usually refers to people who admire someone he doesn't as cultists. In regards to Horenstein, he has single handedly destroyed the conductor's reputation to the sad dismay of Horenstein's surviving family. I do not like every recording Horenstein made, but his Mahler 1 and 3 and Nielsen 5 for Unicorn are reference recordings as far as I'm concerned and suffice it to say, Dave and I have exchanged words on this. His recent mediocre Mahler series was an embarrassment. Anyway, it's nice to see someone push back on youtube. Hurwitz is knowledgeable, but not the last word by a any measure of reality.
Well said indeed. He's a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde character: all cuddly and jolly in the videos (although the mask does occasionally slip when talking about alternative views in the comments!); but, as you say, in replies to comments we often get an inconguously surly Dave -- especially if you're not sucking up!
I came across one of the Horenstein bashing videos (where he'd more or less dismissed everything), and mentioned that the Rachmaninov Piano Concertos (with Wild) I thought were outstanding (the only Horenstein I'm familiar with, actually) and his reply was along the lines of "I refer you to my video on these works", etc. Another comment, where I pointed out that English Horns aren't the same as Basset Horns got deleted! I enjoy the videos (usually), but you have to walk on egg-shells in the comments! (I'm on the look out for a Nielsen 5 -- hope to check H's version out!)
@@CloudyMcCloud00 Jeckyll & Hyde is a good analogy. He's not fond of pointed disagreement, or anything that he can even loosely classify as off topic. Then again, it's HIS channel, and he can delete whatever he wants.
@@CloudyMcCloud00 The Rachmaninov concerto cycle with Wild is indeed excellent. The two Mahler recordings I mentioned were long considered standards for these works. They were nearly universally praised in the record magazines at the time.The studio recordings he made with LSO and New Philharmonia put him on the map. His previous Vox stuff is not bad, but often marred by not so great sonics and less than great orchestras. The stereo recordings he did for Reader's Digest with good orchestras are very fine...they include a Brahms 1 and a fine set of Strauss Waltzes among other things. You won't be disappointed with the Nielsen...there are two actually, a studio version originally realeased on Unicorn and an excellent broadcast on BBC Radio Classics (which also includes Bryden Thomson's Nielsen 2). I've had a number of my comments deleted by Dave...but none of them were mean spirited...just disagreeing and telling him why. At least he hasn't banned me.
@@paxpaxart4740 No, I'm not banned yet. But he talks about it quite a lot, so I try to play it safe! I had a look for the Nielsen -- but presently can only find for £50+ on CD: a bit too steep for me but I'll keep an eye out. Thanks for your reply.
@@CloudyMcCloud00 Dave is very erudite and often entertaining guy, but is very touchy when challenged, and most of his viewers are sycophants
Nice to see more people reviewing recordings in youtube, new subscriber keep the good work just like Dave!
Just discovered your channel and subscribed. I agree with you about the Thompson RVW symphonies. Not perfect, but pretty good, and better than Dave's assessment. I've followed Hurwitz for many years, both in print and more recently online. As critics go, I think he's better than most, though he has his particular musical prejudices like anyone else. I find his breadth of knowledge of the genre, its composers, and its practitioners over a broad period of time makes him a great resource for most classical buffs. As to his opinions, I've found over the years that if he thinks it's good, it usually is. If he trashes it, usually not so good. Many exceptions, of course, like this one. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant. As he often says, "Like what you like."
I can't tell you how much I respect your outlook on Dave's channel; I love watching his material and respect it very much and learn a lot even with my classical music obsession since the late 80's. I really respect him and learn a lot from him., but there are some recordings I have a bit of a hard time with...like "The Rite of Spring." I have collected recordings of this work for 35 years and own over 80 different recordings. My concertmaster friend finds it amazing. The best, by the way, are Markevitch and the Philharmonia from 1959 and the Boulez with Cleveland from 1969. Chailly with Cleveland is a close third .I have around 85 different recordings of this piece on Lp, cassette, and CD and SACD.
Putting it out there. Another plug for Bryden Thompson is that he did a great set of recordings of the six Martinu symphonies, which Dave Hurwitz was favourable to.
I have the Thomson RVW cycle, but haven't listened to it in years. Your fun and informative review has whetted my appetite to give it another go :)
Thomson's recording of the 4th Symphony was my introduction to the music of Vaughan Williams, and it might still be my favorite single Vaughan Williams CD to this day. I also love the cover art on this cycle. It introduced me to the paintings of J.M.W. Turner and he is my favorite artist to this day. I look forward to more videos in this series. Who doesn't love a good disagreement?
You keep making videos, I'll keep watching. Good to have other opinions out there.
The Thomson recordings were the first Vaughan Williams recordings I bought because at the time they were almost the only ones you could find in the early days of CDs. I see them, for me, as an alternative, valid ones, to the other ones I might like a little more. They're broad, and lush and deliberate and well recorded, and when I'm in the mood for that approach they're there for me.
That's the great thing about there being plenty of recordings from which to choose.
Great to see another positive and good natured review channel! Differ from Dave by all means, but we dont need any wars ;)
This is going to be fun! I love Dave Hurwitz's reviews, which I find informative and entertaining. I am aware that Dave is of the faster persuasion, i.e., that he thrives on recordings taken at a brisker pace, whereas I tend to enjoy slower performances. I guess it all comes down to what the performer feels while actually doing the music.
As far as Vaughan Williams go, I have the Boult box but I don't listen to the CDs as often as I should. As Janis Joplin used to sing, I must make amends. After this review of Bryden Thomson (and Leonard Slatkin), if I find a box in a record shop and it's at a nice price, I'll buy it.
One thing I must say, your humming sounds better than Dave's :))
Yep. My theory is he prefers faster versions as he's decided to get through literally the entire discography and so he needs them to be quick so he can eventually get his dinner!
I'm a slow fan too - Celibadache & Goodall etc etc, but find some speedier versions of my various slow works quite a revelation. Eg: I have a John Elliot Gardiner Beethoven 9 that positively races through - it's different that's for sure, but it's coherent and very exciting, something i thought would be impossible.
Thanks for this review of this wonderful cycle. I like Thomson's Bax cycle as well. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Well, hello! Who are you?! 😁 Nice to find your channel. I watch Dave's vids just about every day. I agree with his take on things the vast majority of the time. I also disagree with him about Thomson's RVW cycle! So you're an interesting find.
No. 1. I was irked that Dave didn't even talk about this one. I agree with you. It's gorgeously played, sung, & recorded. It's a stunner & is at the top of my list with Boult/EMI. Yvonne Kenny is amazing, one of the best, but I like Sheila Armstrong better. I do NOT enjoy Brian Rayner Cook's voice though.
No. 2. My favorite recording of this. I really like Thomson's pace in the Scherzo. It's a "Nocturne," & I think Thomson's pace emphasizes the nocturnal quality.
No. 3. I always read unfavorable things about this recording & am always baffled. It's exquisite in every way. The recent one by Martyn Brabbins is a stunner & up there, too.
No. 4. It's just crash/bang/boom exciting & beautifully played.
No. 5. This is my favorite recording of my favorite RVW Symphony. It just glows & glows & glows. Remarkable from start to finish.
No. 6. Probably Thomson's weakest effort here. I find it a bid muddy, especially in the scherzo.
No. 7. I find other recordings have a bit more snap & snarl.
No. 8. Extremely good, but like you I just don't listen to work much.
No. 9. I actually think this is one of the greatest recordings of this piece. I'm going to give it another listen & pay attention to what you said about the percussion.
So what does that add up to? For my money, an incredibly consistent cycle, with a couple of misses vastly outweighed by some glorious recordings of the front rank. It's my favorite RVW cycle on the whole.
I was a student Edinburgh when Thomson was Chief Conductor of the RSNO, I went to many of his concerts. Apart from Martinu and Nielsen, I don't recall much of else he did that was distinguished. The RSNO didn't sound great under his baton, I found him a to be uninspired in the core classical and romantic repertoire. I'll definitely 'give his RVW cycle a go. I think I listened to a 1 disc. For the 4th, Dave recommended Berglund. It's a taught and intense performance that never slacks. Wow!
Great to see such enthusiasm for RVW around the world. In the UK we suffer from a lack of performances on 1-4 and 6-9. Everyone wants to play the 5th. The commercial classical stations pump out the Tallis Fantasy, the Lark and Greensleeves on a near daily basis. It's so depressing. I want to scream at them to play some of the later works or the gritty ones!
Antonio Pappano is slowly working is way through the symphonies, a performance of the 9th the LSO planned for December. I am hoping his time with the orchestra will be a golden age in the mold of Previn or Sir Colin Davis.
In my 70 years I've learned one thing about classical recordings: there is NO "best". A truly great work of music can be interpreted many ways and not be diminished. I picked up a lot of Bryden Thomson's work as they came out and I've never been disappointed. It's a terrific RVW set. Of the three Bax cycles, I prefer Thomson's. And Thomson's Elgar symphonies are outstanding. Another conductor who died way too young.
Dimitri Bashkirov her teacher Anastasia Virsaladze teach saying to Bashkirov the most important lesson is the love of beautiful colorful piano sound! This was already in 1930s! Really Shocking! All the beautiful colorful piano sound players are gone dead like Wilhelm Kempff Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Artur Rubinstein Vladimir Ashkenazy Grigory Sokolov! All the modern players are cold colorless dry piano sound players like Kissin Zimerman Pletnev Hamelin Yuja Wang and latest hype student Yunchan Lim!
@@RaineriHakkarainen Grigory Sokolov is alive and kicking actually. He's only 74 and probably has a good few years left in him. Vladimir Ashkenazy retired but is also still alive.
What's your opinion on Bertrand Chamayou? One modern pianist who doesn't sound like your run-of-the-mill super virtuoso circus monkey. He recorded a CD with 2 piano concerti and some solo works by Saint-Saëns and he's the only concert pianist to date whose recording of the Etude en forme de valse is (almost) on the level of Cortot's legendary 1919 acoustic recording.
I've learned the same thing in my 75 years. In choosing among great recordings, "Best" is largely subjective. I simply enjoy as many as I can.
The Martinu Symphony cycle is quite excellent.
@@RaineriHakkarainen Zimerman, Pletnev, and Lim cold and colorless? Ha. I'd love to play obscure recordings for you and see if you could actually tell whether one of these "dry piano sound" pianists is playing or one of the old guys. Wang, Hamelin, and Kissin also play with as much color as many of the older pianists, they're just less aligned with my tastes. Also interesting that Horowitz isn't on your list. And what about Argerich, Uchida, Lugansky, Blechacz, Laurent-Aimard, etc.?
Haha LOL. You need a tamtam alternative behind you. Glockenspiel.
4:22 and you also sing, yay 😂😂 I love enthusiasts being enthusiastic.❤
A big plate bell also might work.
I strongly agree that Thompson's Vaughan-Williams cycle is among the best, but then again I like the Haitink performances and I don't think anyone like those.
Bryden Thomson also did a superb Walton 1 for Chandos that has, in my opinion, been somewhat underrated. I too watch Hurwitz's reviews and, like you, find them entertaining and informative. His lifelong experience really shows. My main negative is his quick dismissal of many recordings which many of us still value despite changing times - Karajan in Bruckner for example. Discovered your channel today so will listen with interest!
A rather big problem with Hurwitz is his ego. I once corrected him about the Kempe "Sheherazade" when he said it was the Berlin Philharmonic. I wrote to him that it was in fact Royal Philharmonic and he didn't like being corrected at all. This was in the context of him boasting about being able to recognize orchestral sound.
I agree, though in the years since he started his RUclips channel, he has softened a bit on accepting corrections. He sometimes even graciously acknowledges them.
Yes, beneath the jovial exterior he’s very touchy, but dammit, he’s knowledgeable!!
He is full of shit like all critics, comes with the job - reason why I could never do it.
@@TheOneAndOnlyZeno An utterly ridiculous comment. You can be a total shit without being a critic, something you just proved.
@@thomasroth4533 You proved my point by criticizing my point while being full of shit - thought I smelled something from a mile away. Now go away, no one cares about your opinion.
I'm with you on this. i like this cycle
The best VW 8 is the first. Barbirolli on Nixa and Mercury. The PRT CD issue is very pure and doesn't try to fix any sound issues. It's absolutely the most colorful and engaging VW8 ever.
Great video
Have a wonderful day
Although I live in Oregon, I’ve been a proud member of the Ralph Vaughan Williams Society for decades, and I agree with you that Bryden Thomson’s recordings of RVW’s symphonies are well worth acquiring. That said, with reference to Aaron Copland’s remark that RVW’s music reminded him of a cow looking over a fence, Copland was referring to the Pastoral Symphony, not the 5th. In fact, in the early 1940s, when asked during an interview whether he still felt as he did about RVW, Copland said “The symphony in F Minor and subsequent works have given the lie to that statement.” Anyway. Charles, thanks for another great video!
It was Peter Warlock (aka Philip Heseltine) who said of the 3rd (Pastoral) Symphony that it was "all just a little too much like a cow looking over a gate." He was a partisan of Delius. He killed himself.
He must have been a city boy. There's nothing wrong with a cow looking over a gate. I saw lots of them on my grandfather's farm when I was growing up in Indiana back in the 1950's. I thought they were pretty spiffy then, and still do.
Charles! this is a blast🎉- but ,these are your disagreements with Dave???that's love- come on Charles! love it though ❤
Antarctica - Previn for me. And I NEED the spoken intros.
Shostakovich nao pls
Hey, Charlie! Glad to see that Dave has newly-formed "competition." I recall Dave trashing Haitink's VW set, as well, which I thought rather cavalier, as it is quite good--- on all levels. I don't know whether you've heard it or not, but, if not, try to. Previn's VW, especially the "Antartica," has been a long time favorite; Haitink now, though, is right up there.
The first RVW symphony I ever heard was Antarctica with Haitink. It has some good spots like a great organ sound. But generally the Haitink is way too slow and plodding overall. The Previn for me is great, although I think he messes with dynamics in the organ section. Plus, I hate the spoken intros to each movement. You just don’t need them. Best version hands down is Slatkin for me.
@@charlescoleman5509 Interesting! I guess that's what I like about the Haitink, Charlie: his pace gives one time to fully "digest" VW's ideas. Previn messes around with most things, VW, or not; the Slatkin I've not heard. Per RR's intros: I've always thought they've added gravitas, but that's just me (I guess). Cheers!
@@melvynmsobel210 Yeah, I'm a HUGE Ralph Richardson fan, and so of course that puts Previn's Antarctic Symphony at the top of the heap for me. And for anyone who doesn't like the spoken intros, just program your CD player to skip those tracks!
@@twwc960 The Previn was the first VW "Antartica" that I heard--- maybe 50 years ago--- and, because of RRs intros, it remains indelible. It took me quite a while to get used to hearing the symphony sans voice. And, yes, programming out the intros would work; but, naturally, this would be anathema to us (heh, heh, heh).
I rather like Haitink's Sym 1 and 2... but according to Dave they are trash. Sometimes I think he just likes to be a Gramaphone magazine contrarian.
You've earned a subscriber here.
Hi there! Like the way you start out with reletivating your "disagreement" with Dave. People are way to inclined to focus on the disagreements than on the similarities.
I'm pretty sure I have been disagreeing with Dave Hurwitz ever since he was posting to rmcr in the late 90s. Not always, but quite a bit. I also read his vibrato essay and disagree with most of his Bruckner reviews. Keep doing this. I like Thomson.
new boss unlocked..
@@Smudge4199 🤣
I seem to remember the amazing and entertaining Mr Hurwitz saying he doesn't like the Sea Symphony in another video?
It is a little self-indulgent.
I would love to hear your take on CPO's Spohr Overtures. It is one of my go to discs.
I’m sure Mr Hurwitz is a decent human being. His bewildering, largely negative, opinions of JS Bach’s music, however, put into question the soundness of his musical judgments writ large
Hurwitz isn't the only critic who allows doubts about Bach. W.J. Turner for one, as quoted by B.H. Haggin. "...while the prodigious technical skill may interest and amaze the academic musician 'with the score in his hand and his soul Ling defunct' for Turner it is valueless unless it is as expressive as it is accomplished." "One hears always the prodigious powers of invention and construction, but frequently an operation that us not as expressive as it is accomplished."
I do think Dave objects to some of the very dour and self-lacerating texts Bach had to set and I agree with him there. Also that so much of Bach is incomparably great. But not all.
Hurwitz doesn't suggest Bach isn't one of the greatest composers, he just says he doesn't care that much for a lot of Bach's output even where he can recognize the genius and that he personally prefers Handel from the same time period. Nor does he deny how much Bach influenced many composers who came after him. I don't see a thing wrong with his position on Bach, and would rather see a critic be honest about his own preferences instead of saying to be a critic I must say Bach is the mountaintop and nobody else approaches him. I am by no means a sycophant for Hurwitz, who I think often contradicts himself and can be a little too nasty with anybody who disagrees with him.
My read between the lines on Dave’s Sea Symphony video is that he’s simply not too keen on the piece. He definitely prefers that the 4th movement move along (too schmaltzy?), and he says he HATES Whitman which is def starting with 2 strikes.
Let me suggest "Das Rheingold Donner Summoning the Mists" as your opening "conflict" thematic music with the charming Mr. Hurwitz. Make sure to get Donner (Thor) striking him hammer on the anvil and producing the magnificent sound of a thunderstorm to accompany your conflicting recommendation. (Edit): There is an even better version from Bayreuth here - put this in search in RUclips (Gerd Nienstedt -- "Schwüles Gedünst...He Da! (Donner's Call) -- Das Rheingold).
@@eddihaskell I love it! Will do. 😁
Symphony No.4 is a cracker. Everything seemed to come together in this recording including the sonics. The highlight of the cycle in my opinion.
Hello Charles, a very interesting and valuable new show from you. First of all, my opinion about Dave is that he is all about himself in his own microcosm and a lot of his reviews are completely prejudiced. Nevertheless, I appreciate his channel because, in addition to Dave's undeniably profound knowledge of classical music, I also think he has a very humorous side. As far as Christian Thielemann is concerned, my opinion is that Dave's view of Thielemann is completely overloaded with prejudices. However, like Dave, I don't think Andris Nelsons' Bruckner cycle is well developed. Nevertheless, his view of Thielemann and here especially of his Bruckner cycle. That has nothing to do with reality. These are pure, clear prejudices. I think your idea of objectively highlighting such contrasts between reviews of classicical works is a fantastic idea and very entertaining. I'm really looking forward to your next episodes.
I agree that there are certain artists Hurwitz doesn't like...Rattle, Thielemann, Horenstein, Nelsons, Makela...I also think he thrives on being a contrarian to other critics.
On the Sea Symphony, don't overlook Howard Arman with MDR forces in Leipzig. Because he is a choral trainer he gets the most out of his singers and the clarity of the recording is exceptional.
I agree that several of Thomson's versions are among the best, often in wonderful sound. At the time when it became known that Chandos would be doing an RVW cycle, it was generally assumed that Vernon Handley would be assigned to it. Many were disappointed when Thomson was hired, but by and large he did RVW proud. The only real letdown is the 6th Symphony, which is lackadaisical and sloppy. The 8th lacks a bit of punch and colour. The 9th however is very good indeed, much better than Andrew Manze's as-slow-as-possible recent take on the piece.
Hi Chuck,
Welcome to the world of musical criticism. May the gods be with you.
I disagree with Dave a lot. I agree with Dave a lot. I'm pretty sure the same will be true with you.
Music is like visual art. What you hear is what you hear v. what you see it what your see. I like that you hear things differently than Dave. Perhaps your ears are different. Maybe better. Maybe not. Maybe it has nothing to do with how we hear. Who knows? Why is that a problem?
Lest I become tedious, let me propose that we all have our own perceptions of what is good, better, best, and all of them are genuine and true for us at this specific period in time but can all be changed as we grow (or shrink) throughout life and our journey into the world of music. I love the changes. I love the variety. I love the ambiguity.
I love the journey.
Keep the faith.
I'm always curious to see how long it takes before he's rubbing his nose.
In Thomson's performance of the first movement of the 6th Symphony, the initial tempo matches Vaughan Williams' metronome marking; therefore, Thomson's starting tempo is not 'too slow'. The second movement is faster than other performances and does not drag, with the climax being one of the most terrifying moments in the entire Vaughan Williams discography. The Scherzo is massive, evil, and merciless as it should be - the brass section is absolutely amazing, with monstrously terrific horn, trombone, and tuba parts! The ending of the work is not too slow either and is deeply performed, with the orchestra being perfectly balanced and sensitive. The main issue with this recording is the questionable quality of the sound engineering. Slatkin, on the other hand, sounds mechanical and inexpressive, with no sense of agogic. Andrew Davis with the BBC Symphony is a much better alternative if you look for a 'faster' performance.
Any thoughts here on the Haitink VW cycle?
I love your singing, ... certainly better than Dave's!
😀
I agree that Hurwitz drastically underrates Thomson's Vaughan Williams. I disagree with you though that Thomson's 6th is too slow; Berglund shows how effective it can be even at much SLOWER tempos. And Previn's is the greatest 9th of all: Depth, breadth, weight, power, beauty, and mystery. Especially mystery -- no one does those final closing bars the way he does. Previn actually beats everyone for consistency across all the symphonies; it's just that his 1970s recordings sound too dry and faded sonically to be competitive anymore.
I very often disagree with his reviews especially regarding the recording quality, but opinions are very subjective.
I almost always agree with the facts Dave presents but not always the conclusions he makes. A couple Mahler recordings I disagree with him about:
Mahler 5 Karajan - he praises this but the rhythm and ensemble is so sloppy.
Mahler 10 Vänskä - he says this is just ok but I really believe this is the best recording of the work. The 2nd movement is the best ever recorded. The strings in the finale are so glorious.
I’m sick of listening to M10s with crappy percussion, particularly weak cymbal “taps”. That is such an unidiomatic sound in Mahler and they seem to plague most recordings
@@Kyle-ur4mr I know that Dave doesn't like Horenstein's Mahler but I heard the finale of Mahler 8 on the car radio without knowing it was Horenstein conducting and thought it was wonderful!
@@ahartify I'll have to get that one a listen. I know his 3rd is popular but I'm not a fan at all 😂
For the london symphony, the version with Eugene Goossens is by far my favourite. I find all the others rather boringly played in comparison.
Nice talk, Charles - always good to have more musical opinions on RUclips, but to get the kind of clicks Dave gets, you need to have a cat. Just saying.😀
His dismissal of Simon Rattle and Horenstein are ridiculous. Best to ignore him sometimes. It's just personal opinion. That is all. Maybe he's upset because they didn't play with his community orchestra.😊
I have my problems with the RVW 5, too. There is no conflict, there seems to be nothing at stake. The Sibelius 6 also eludes me for that reason...
Dave seems to worship the ground George Szell stands on but I find Szell's conducting often brutally crass. So there!
@@ahartify Dave definitely likes Szell for the most part. But he did point out that Szell did a not so great recording of Janacek’s Sinfonietta. Mainly because it’s too restrained and safe. All the more reason why Kubelik and Ancerl did it so much better.
@@charlescoleman5509 That"s good to hear! I am prejudiced towards Claudio Abbado myself, and even though Abbado has made some lacklustre recordings, I feel that Dave doesn't see his finer points and underestimates him.
I generally enjoy Szell's work, but have to agree that he sometimes missed the mark, particularly on pieces requiring a lighter hand.
@@charlescoleman5509Sharing an lp with the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra which is ruined for me by that dreadful and high handed cut in the last mvt. Probably Szell's worst record.
@@ahartifyAbbado's Mozart symphonies that I've heard are dreadful, finicky and empty of expression. Szell is far and away superior.
Renowned ?...he spouts utter bolloks
Reading comments here. To be straight with you I find this weirdly parasitic, even though I might agree with you on some things.
Interesting to see Dave following being critical when they are oh so nice on hi channel.
I’m lucky enough to have met Dave and can confirm that he’s funny, has an amazing memory, but more importantly is very kind.
So it might be a laugh I suppose but this strikes me as a channel where if you have the talent you should be doing something better. Sorry.
@@murraylow4523 Thanks for your comment. And since you asked about stuff that I do that is “better”, here’s a link to one of my pieces. ruclips.net/video/8HyDvJ61tW4/видео.htmlsi=5xfXkjtz4XIeUlCl
@@charlescoleman5509 I’ll look but I’d strongly suggest you just do something different, Charles.
@@murraylow4523Personally, I just happen to enjoy doing this sort of thing when time permits. Being a musician, I’m obviously passionate about this amazing music from the classical genre and want to present it to wider crowd via this channel. When Dave Hurwitz created his RUclips channel during the lockdown of 2020, he provided a portal that had not existed before. Through his great intellect and distinctive sense of humor, Dave has enhanced an awareness of this amazing genre that had not been done before. And he inspires me to attempt to do the same. I won’t argue with you about my talents or lack thereof, because it would be a foolhardy rabbit hole type of discussion. I’m just very appreciative of the mostly very kind comments people have said to me here. 😊
@@charlescoleman5509 understand but I hope you can find your own way to do the admirable things you say, else it’ll,just turn into a moaning about Dave back channel alas (looking at the comments it is already)
Here’s another one of my pieces. Which was premiered earlier this month. It was commissioned as a companion work to Messiaen’s ‘Quartet for the End of Time’, also on the program. Love to know what you think. ruclips.net/video/tJvE09ryaig/видео.htmlsi=PtNEf01s_Bez-osF
I mean, there is only one Dave, why the hell I would care some what random guy agrees or disagrees with him..?
Then why are you watching and commenting dummy?
Exactly. Everyone on earth disagrees with everyone else. As always.
Four thousand videos and they're all worthless.
I haven't heard the Thielemann. Bruckner cycle yet , but. I have a much higher opinion of. Thielemann's conducting than. Dave Hurwitz . I'm convinced he's one of. the greatest living conductors .
Hurwitz flayed Jascha Horenstein, which really hurts.