What’s important to know is when Ray Robinson was winning world titles, there was 1 true champion in the divisions and Robinson became a 5 time Middleweight Champion, and held the Welterweight title for 5 strong years.
@@TripSe7en_77 I like 2 ....give us fans unification bouts...Ali era had 2 titles and that was just fine. Gives fighters 2 routes to a title and we keep unification bouts
@@TripSe7en_77 Nah! It's not the multiple world titles that ruined the sport. It's the business model. The politics. That ruined the sport. Especially the PPV format.
Like the narrator, I would constantly hear, when I was young, that "Sugar Ray Robinson is considered to be the greatest pound for pound boxer, ever." I finally got to see many of his fights and was not disappointed. Up until then, I had seen quite a few truly great boxers but still came to the conclusion that: In boxing, there are stars, there are superstars and then, all by his lonesome, there is the inimitable Sugar Ray Robinson.
The thing about sugar ray is if you saw footage of his fights next to modern fighters (with their footage altered to look historical), you would think he fought in the same era as them. He was just so advanced and technical for when he fought. I don't see how anyone could not define him as the lb4lb goat
I Think Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest pound for pound fighter of all time in boxing. In his prime he literally was a robot. Perfect Rhythm, perfect coordination, and perfect punches, or nearly perfect in all those. RIP Robinson.
I love the rocky graziano fight. He literally understood after a single exchange not to press the issue and cleverly moved graziano into a position to land a left that knocked him out. That’s some 4D chess
The sport of boxing has changed so much in the past 60 years that it’s hard to imagine anyone approaching Sugar Ray’s greatness. I won’t hold my breath, but how awesome would it be to see a kid challenge his place in boxing history? Never say never.
Earlier on my laptop and im watching ray side by side and a man named Clemente from 1978s vs danny is 125 and is moving way more fluid and way more advanced he is using feints on top of able to combo faster on top of using lateral movement how about carlos a middleweight as ray was using lateral movement smoothly able to pick off shots from range smoothly and duck and counter smoothly ray looks sloopy stiff making mutiple mistakes im watchin him now vs joe he looks nothing like these guys ray and this era looks to be very over extending alot of times to the body and are very hesitant in most movements they dont fight from range much,they leave themselves open alot alot of times will just throw to the body and not protect themselves the carlos era was able to protect to body with 1 hand while punching to the body they use mostly counters when up close,the lateral movement is very basic they dont seem to be able to punch from range while doing it smoothly they have to stop then punch most the time and their feet are mostly tiptoeing instead of carlos era where its like their a quarterback ready to throw the ball these wasnt big name guys but they clearly as im watching are way more advanced then rays era on top of being more fluid and made less mistakes
Sugar Ray Robinson PRO record: 174-19-6-2, KO's 109 / World title record: 14-9-1, KO's 8) - Undisputed Welterweight Champion of the World: 1946-1950 (6-0-0, KO's 2). - 5-time Undisputed Middleweight Champion of the World: 1951-1951, 1951-1952, 1955-1957, 1957-1957 & 1958-1960 (8-7-0, KO's 6) - Undisputed Light Heavyweight World Championship Challanger: 1952. # Most notorious victories: 13 world champions - Jake LaMotta x5, Rocky Graziano, Kid Gavilán x2, Carmen Basilio, Marty Servo x2, Fritzie Zivic x2, Henry Armstrong, Izzy Jannazzo x3, Bobo Olson x4, Randolph Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Denny Moyer & Ralph Dupas + Sammy Angott, Maxie Berger, Tommy Bell x2, George Costner, Yoland Leveque etc. # Most notorious losses: 8 world champion - Joey Maxim, Paul Pender x2, Jake LaMotta, Carmen Basilio, Randolph Turpin, Gene Fullmer x2, Denny Moyer, Joey Giardello, + Ralph Jones, Phil Moyer, Terry Downes, Mick Leahy & Joey Archer. NOTE: Of 19 career losses in 201 professional fights, only ONE time was he stoped - Joey Maxim in his bid for the Light Heavyweight world title that went 13 of 15 rounds. In the championship bout with Maxim, challanger Robinson built a lead on all three judges' scorecards, but the 103 °F (39 °C) temperature in the ring took its toll. The referee, Ruby Goldstein, was the first victim of the heat, and had to be replaced by referee Ray Miller. The fast-moving Robinson was the heat's next victim - at the end of round 13, he collapsed and failed to answer the bell for the next round, suffering the only knockout of his career.
His power, if you look closely, is pure physics. Putting every ounce of his mass into some of his punches. But he's so quick and his footwork perfect he never overextends, never out of position.
@@larrybscott8145 Agreed 100%. If it wasn't for Tommy's chin I definitely think he could've took the throne or at the very least be an extremely close "runner up" cause he was the complete package of a fighter.
Would like to see a video on Ezzard Charles the Cincinnati Cobra. One of the most underrated boxing talents of all time. A man who could have possibly been champion in three divisions and the only man to take Rocky Marciano a full 15 rounds.
Great video! Gave me goosebumps. The only thing I would add is, historians rate Greb/Langford over SRR based purely of the body of work, which when you really boil it down, is all that truly matters in greatness. Robinson was not only great, but the one of the best!, we see that with the decent amount of footage we have to judge his ability on, albiet past his best. I would personally rate Langford far & above the rest. He moved from the equivalent of featherweight to heavyweight and scored over 100 knockouts against the biggest n best guys the sport had to offer. He has also fought & beat the most HOF opposition in history. Robinson's greatness is unquestionable, but there are many fighters from pre 1930 that have compiled a resume I would weigh up against him. Langford, Greb, Jack Johnson (for some reason serverly underrated), Harry Wills, Joe Jeanette etc. These guys just did too much in the ring to brush over due to lack of footage. After all, we don't revere someone like Hitler a more prominent conqueror than Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan because there is footage of him doing it. Any way, I'm rambling now, great vid as always!
I’m young and don’t care much about boxing but I’ve loved Sugar Ray Robinson for years. He is so smooth and just moves different. Sort of like when you see Michael Jordan you just see that he moves different than everyone else.
I remember last year there were hardly any videos on RUclips about Sugar Ray Robinson. I'm glad that is changing. He was one of the greats and my grandad's favourite of all time. Edit: my grandad has been a boxing journalist his entire life, has written 5or 6books on the subject, one of his first being on the life of Sugar Ray Robinson. He has been called one of Ireland's top boxing historians. He sometimes gets criticized for his writing style, but he always wrote for the man on the street. He writes for a popular newspaper and he writes books for the population at large. His book is good introduction and general overview of the life and career of Sugar Ray and goes into a lot personal detail around his early life and his life outside the ring.
@@stephenburns76 there were one or two substandard productions. Oneupload of a documentary from the 90s I think, but most of the large channels had nothing on him. But maybe I missed them all.
I think you pick him as number 1, then you start to think about everyone else but nobody is anywhere near him imo. For a modern boxer for me they'd have to fight 3 times as often win at multiple weights and be at least 80-0 to be considered. Completely agreed with everything you said. Watching the footage with he would genuinely hold his own today which is completely unheard of in any sport because of how much sport evolves
The sport may "evolve", but that doesn't necessarily translate into a human delivering or absorbing a punch. The main thing with boxing, it's very much predicated by the individual's heart and desire. Yes, if you're speaking of training techniques or video footage of "studying" an opponent for a perceived advantage, maybe modern day boxers can brag about being "better" than fighters of yore. Although, putting a fighter like a Roy Jones Jr. in predicament of having to fight 18 to 20 fights a year over a 3 to 4 year period, do you honestly think he'd fare as well as Robinson did?
About 3 years ago I looked at a bookshelf that had my late father's books. (He passed away 11 years before that. I was 9. Now it's been 14 years) I found a book called The Sugar Ray Robinson Story. I wondered why he had this. I was then told my dad liked boxing and even did a kickboxing course or something and had a license for it and I found tapes with no writing on them that had boxing matches. Including the Oliver McCall Vs Lennox Lewis II. Sad fight. It's funny I found boxing about 2016-17. And yet I would find out my dad liked it too. Maybe he and me could have enjoyed it together. Especially he could have come to the fighting gym I go to with me. Maybe he would be ok with me having a amateur match (I'm trying to. My family is against it). It's like I received a late gift from my old man. I haven't finished the book yet (not a big reader) and the quarter of the book I've read so far is good! It shows how life was back then as well as boxing. The book is still available I think to purchase but with a different cover. I recommend it! It's a great book with crazy things about his life
Cheers for the insights Rummy. Great choice for a vid. I look forward to some more material on him. I love hearing about the olden days boxers like Jack Dempsey and Sugar Ray. The fights they had were relentless unlike today where a fighter is lucky to fight like twice a year. Cheers Mate.
This is so weird 😂 Last night I posted on my Twitter about Ray Robinson and was trying to find a video you did on him but you hadn't. Literally just now I was typing into the search bar to find a documentary / film about him and your video pops up👍 Boom perfect timing.
Masterful work Geoff. I had practically the same chat with my dad 50yrs ago and he gave exactly the same answer. He knew much about boxing and I accepted his opinion. Nothing has happened since to change my mind. Thank you for this and keep up the great work. 👍
brother RUMMY! my fathe,r who was born in 1936 and is no longer with us, said the the very same thing, i rememeber the exact conversation. i couldn't have been ten years oild . the thing that strikes me is the way both men ansered the child's question not only in substance, but in style, my dad didn't hesitate for even one second. he didn't even have to think ... and it was in that same conversation where i learned about the phrase "pound for pound". these are memories to cherish as we get older. PLEASE finish the video you are working on. we'd all love to see it. im all over the bosxing channels here on youtube and yours has to be my favorite, i have no idea how you lerarned so much about the fight game, but you analysis is...so even handed and technically savvy. thank you so much for your hard work and FINISH THAT RIBINSON VIDEO!
When I used to talk boxing with my grandfather, who was a fan, he got the same look on his face about Ray Robinson that I would get talking about Michael Jordan today...one of humble certainty. There was no question for people who were alive then who the GOAT is.
i've heard it said and i think it's true. Not a single video of Sugar Ray in his prime exists. After watching what does exists one can hardly imagine how good he was.
Boxing has a long history back to pre-civilization. Rummy's case for available footage along with Ray's accomplishments certainly makes a strong and practical argument. The ancient Greek boxers and pankration fighters had to be tougher than any men in recent times, though. Classical Greek fighters also were dedicated athletes who devoted their lives to training and competition.
I don't have Sugar Ray Robinson at 1, but I do have him at 2. I have Ali and Ray Robinson in my top 2 spots and it's a big distance between them and everyone else in my eye. I have Ali above Robinson for only 1 reason, 1) Competition. Competition just is in reference to who they fought or were competing against/with in their careers. Now I think Robinson was in a really strong era of Welter and Middle weights, but I wouldn't argue it was the strongest era. I would argue the second strongest for those respective classes, with 40s-50s Welter weight being in contention for 1. 60s - 70s Heavy weight is definitely the best Heavy weight class we've ever seen. Beating the better competition means more than winning more fights. But mad respect to Robinson, if anyone has him at 1, I don't ever disagree cause it's 100% close. And both Ali and Robinson are hands down 1&2 because both fighters were undisputed champ at least 3 times even well past their prime.
Thanks for this Rummy. You truly put a lot of my own thoughts and opinions about Robinson in this video. Thanks for all the amazing content over the last several years.
Would love one of your championship profiles on Robinson, my favourite section of your page is the championship profiles, brilliant work, brilliantly narrated, full of information, spoken with a passionate voice tone, by far my friend you are the best, boxing Page on social media, you deserve much much more, promotion.
Hey Rummy, as always a great vid mate. Awesome insight from yourself. Ray Robinson was the greatest PvP fighter of all time.. His record against many, many amazing fighters speaks for itself. The six fight battles with Jake were amazing but also the Fullmer, Greb, Olson, Turpin, Basilio and many other top line fights, plus the longevity places Ray in the number one spot of the greatest fighter ever. Just my thoughts :)
I'm very, very sad that even among the experts and supposedly real boxing fans only sees and knows Robinson's rivalry against LaMotta, Fullmer and Basilio. Hell! That's only cherry on the top! Few fans knows the names of Sammy Anggott, Marty Servo, Fritzie Zivic, Kid Gavilan, Holly Mims, Sugar George Costner, Jimmy Doyle, Jimmy Daniels, California Jackie Wilson, Gene Buffalo, Bernard Docusen, Georgie Abrams, Jimmy Tygh, Robert Villemain, Cyrille Delannoitte, Jean Walzack, Bobby Dykes, Izzy Jannazo, Tommy Bell, Jose Basora, Charley Fusari and Bobo Olson. But of course I understand the fans, especially the new ones, they had no idea who these guys are and how great they are. The so called experts failed miserably to introduce them to the fans. And even the International Hall of Fame failed to give credit to some of them. Like California Jackie Wilson who I personally think deserves to be in the Hall. Man! He beat Baby Arizmendi, Kid Azteca, Fritzie Zivic and Cocoa Kid. He beat 4 Hall of Famers (5 if you included WBHOF Hall of Famer Ceferino Garcia). That alone says a lot. Even Juan Manuel Marquez had no 4 wins against Hall of Famers.
Ahhhh, the 🐐 debate... An argument that will never be resolved yet we never tire of having it. In a way, it's as much a part of the sport's rich history as the fights themselves.
This was a great video rummy What does a disservice to alot of fighters over the last forty years is all the belts for one weight class and fighters just don't fight as much as they did back in those days (of course fighters make alot more money now) Robinson has always been number one on my list and what's crazy is we haven't had a chance to see him really at his peak Most of those fights not available on film
Like the narrator said, his record is impeccable. Undefeated and decorated in gold medals as an amateur 85-0, 69 of those by KO. Undefeated as a pro middleweight, only been stopped once. First loss was against a HUGE LaMotta on a decision. The man was fighting 15 round fights sometimes weekly, that would catch up with everyone. Easy p4p 1, greatest boxer of all time and most, if not all of his records will very likely never be broken.
Sugar Ray Robinson is the best of all time, look at his record, achievements, and the man himself look at the way he sets up Randolph Turpin in the second fight picking each spot before knocking him down. Pure genius its something out of Spartacus. No fighter has done it since or before. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a roman gladiator in a previous life.
If you have a crappy day at work and you come home and its raining out and you need to do something to just make the evening better than the day has been, get a glass of your favorite whiskey, put a couple logs of some well seasoned oak in the fireplace and turn on Rummys corner and watch some damm good boxing analysis from Rummy and I guarantee you will forget all about why this day sucked and your evening will be much better than your morning and afternoon.
Agree with your final thoughts on it. I do recall having a VHS once that was about 3 hours long and it was just Suger Ray Fights or partial footage of fights. Was an official release not a recording of the telly compilation. I guess it was a Jim Jacobs released thing back then.
Bye in large Ray Robinson is number by miles ahead the only boxer from this era that belongs in the top ten is probably Manny at around 10 and Floyd is top 12 or top 15 and Chavez around 15 to top 25 just my opinion. 1950's and 60's and 70's were just built different. Sugar Ray number 1 no question.
Yes Rummy. I'm a massive Sugar Ray fan & pound for pound, he was incredible. I have him in my top 3 of all time, with Sam Langford & Harry Greb. Great stuff. Bless up bro 👊
Yes, I lean toward Harry Greb and Sam Langford. I'm right into Ezzard Charles just now. Another of my top 5. The others being Armstrong and Robinson. I've even heard mutterings that Joe Wallcot was a better Welterweight than Robinson. Thanks for the utube suggestion. I'm gonna watch some Ooold Mongoose on Smooooth Legends.✌️
Great video again Rummy. Could you perhaps consider making a dreamfight video between Sugar Ray Robinson and Archie Moore? Both legends were active around the same time and they both fought as middleweights and light heavyweights but never fought each other.
I think, out of the current crop of boxers, Jaron 'Boots' Ennis has a chance to challenge for the the P4P GOAT. He's still young and improving his already impressive skill set and even if he stopped improving he would still go down as a once-in-a-generation fighter based on the eye test. I certainly expect him to become unified champion in multiple divisions. There are other fighters that could have done it, but many of them are too old now to actually pull it off and they don't fight often enough on top of that.
I need to agree !. The only reason why people might disagree. Could be as mentioned the lack of material especially from his welterweight time. Just listen to his record of fights. So I can’t see anyone ever surpasses this unbelievable complete genius in the ring. Evolution sometimes makes a perfect machine. Like a shark, crocodile and Sugar Ray Robinson.
Sadly, even if someone comes along (or has already) with the potential to match or exceed Robinson, the boxing landscape will not allow for the opportunity to show it. A subject like this really shows how devastating politics and bureaucracy can be to sport.
ha! i was literally just deep diving the archives of this channel. i was watching the video about the middleweight tourney from the turn of the century and remembering how it used to be for the post 9/11 downward spiral.
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest of all time, pound for pound. He fought in an age where bouts were 15 rounds and racked up an amazing amount of fights. To put it into perspective, his greatness is equivalent to that of Wayne Gretzky in hockey.
I think to close the door on the best of "all time" is a bad idea. Since what's the point of competing. I think the sport needs to keep pushing the boundaries. I don't agree with "all time" since we never know but I agree with greatest "for now"
Wouldn't the point be to prove the vid wrong? I get what your saying, but changing the mind of someone who is a dead set in their opinion on a GOAT should be one of the side effects of future greatness. This is the case in just about any sport. There were plenty of people who once thought that Wilt Chamberland or Kareem were the best basketball players ever, then Michael Jordan changed many of their minds (but not all). That's just the way it goes. Someone has to come around and change minds. I think your statement about "pushing boundaries" is ironic because, IMO, boxing is so consumed with money making ventures, promoters, governing bodies, and other stuff that doesn't have anything to do with what goes on in the ring that I could hardly say that the sport is pushing much of anything. When is a professional fighter going to fight ENOUGH to be able to be as good for as LONG as Robinson? Or have the insane longevity and number of KO wins as a guy like Archie Moore? That's the issue I think I see here. I'm not saying that guys have to go back to the days of fighting 150 time in a professional career (that's just not conducive to good health anyways), but in the modern era there are folks who need to see something pretty spectacular from a fighter to consider changing their minds, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. Floyd Mayweather is an all time great and I love watching him fight, but he will never be able to convince me in some interview that he was better than X fighter from the past, he would have had to do that in the ring.
Absolutely, positively, the greatest boxer of all time. The way the sport is today, even if a guy approached his level of talent, the structure would never allow the guy to exceed what Robinson was able to do
I agree there will never be another Walker Smith Jr. In his prime he had it all. He was the perfect fighter. Every decade or so a great young welterweight or middleweight will come along people will say this will be the next Ray Robinson. Of course it never turns out to be true.
It might not really matter, given he's still regarded as the best ever, but I wish more people realized that Robinson was the uncrowned lightweight champion, having defeated the reigning champion Sammy Angott in a non-title bout where Angott came in heavy so as to not risk his title. Title or not title, he proved himself the best fighter in the world at 135, 147 and 160.
Whats amazing about boxing is the fact that it has a long history, one with a background that allowed such records to exist. Sugar Ray fought and beat everyone multiple times, proving he was the greatest. Modern boxing cannot attempt this feat due to all the restrictions and rules currently in place. Sure it saves fighters from hetting life changing damage...for the most part, but it also stops the best from fighting the best when it matters. Where Im trying to go with this is how I envy a bit boxing fans because Im mostly an MMA fan. It has a short history and there is currently less laws that don't infringe on the best fighting the best, but it never truly had an era in which fighters were free to fight whoever they wanted multiple times a year. There was something similar to the early boxing years with PrideFC and UFC, but the competition between the two companies stopped sometimes matchups that should have happened to determine the best of the era. Same thing happens today but to less of a degree, but now we have other problems like popular fighters getting better chances of fighting for the title. And of course fighters dont fight as often or as long as those boxers of old. The greatest of all time is gonna be much harder to determine in MMA throughout the years than it ever will be in boxing. Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest. MMA has...GSP...Jones...Demetrious...Fedor? Hard to say and I doubt we'll ever get an answer no matter how old the sport gets.
The conversation is between SRR & Floyd. It becomes a conversation of quality vs quantity. Ray versus other HOF opponents struggled a lot more, in comparison to Floyd versus other HOF opposition. I don’t think anyone would question from footage we have for comparison, that Floyd was the more skilled of the two. Age for age comparisons. Ray was in his 30s just like Floyd was in his 30s, but Floyd looked better in the ring. Ray fought in a time where there wasn’t a 100 different sanctioning bodies with multiple belts watering down the competition pool. So Ray more often than Not was getting the best his era had to offer competition wise. Floyd fought in a time where the level of skill is much higher in the average fighter today than it was of yesteryear. And where most of his opponents didn’t need to drive taxis (the phrase taxi driver exists for a reason) to help pay the bills. Floyd fought on average, a higher level of opponent that was FULLY dedicated to professional boxing. That’s the point of the comparison I just made. The answer comes down to double standards. Are YOU valuing a lot of filler level opponents in a resume, as a merit for greatness or not? For the uneducated ones in the back, that means if you value it for one fighter you must value it for another. If you discredit one fighter for it, you must discredit another for it as well. Examples of this: (to help give y’all a head start) Ray was much more of a pure champion than those of the modern era, because less belts/sanctions were around. So he was undisputed because there was less question to his claim as champion than of fighters today. This logic would have to extend to fighters like manny and Canelo, NOT just Floyd because you personally dislike him. Hence that would be a double standard. Example #2: Floyd was more talented because he beat a much higher level of competition, on average, than who SRR and the fighters of that era were used to fighting. Floyd, furthermore, dominated his HOF opponents in a way that no fighter of that era was able to do. This would have to extend beyond just SRR to include people like canelo and manny as well as people like marciano etc. Or else it would be a double standard. For me, I rank my p4p based off the LEAST BIAS method possible. Record (w/l/d/ko) Resume (who’d they fight) Performances (how well did they do at winning?) Accolades (what were their accomplishments in the sport?) And I take necessary context into key; this comes in handy when doing comparisons. For example (regarding context): I remember the dark years media & maniacally Disillusioned fans tried to claim loma as better than Floyd. Loma then goes onto to be completely dominated by an unproven prospect named teofimo. The excuses for loma were age & size. Well well well. Canelo was 23yrs old (same age Teo was when he beat loma) and much more proven and talented than Teo at the same age. (Canelo was on the p4p list and was the top guy in his division at the time) Canelo had power (knockout artist) and showed so much more versatility in the ring than Teo did at/by that age. Floyd on the other hand was MUCH older than loma was when fighting teo. Floyd was OUT of his prime. Loma was still in his, considering all the hype beforehand. Final nail in the coffin is this, teo came in 135lbs to the fight. Rehydrated very close to that weight if not at that weight. Canelo came in 165lbs against Floyd, who came in 150lbs. What were the results of those respective bouts? A shut door victory for Teo over loma. And a completely dominant 12 round masterclass performance from Floyd in a sweeping victory over Canelo. THAT is how I apply context. Fairly. As for SRR or Floyd in the goat conversation. I lean towards Floyd.
I view GREATEST and BEST as two different things. I view Robinson as the BEST ever on a p4p sense. I view Ali as the GREATEST, as he had the biggest impact on the sport
Nobody in the entire history of boxing has had more influence & or a more direct influence on boxing than Robinson.. Ali credits him as an influence therefore anyone influenced by Ali has been influenced by Robinson. Their style can be seen to this day in Usyk & Fury. That legacy is undeniable & for that reason alone its impossible for anyone to usurp Robinson as the all time #1. Ali, Holmes, Hearns, Bowe, Lewis, Leonard, Jones Jr. Lomachenko. Most of the best of what we have seen since Robinson retired has been influenced directly or indirectly by Robinson. Yer gonna have to wipe out civilization n start all over again if you hope to dethrone Robinson.
I second what Gabriel writes. Monzon didn’t fight as ‘pretty’ or picture-perfect as Robinson, nor did he score nowhere near as many spectacular one punch KOs as Sugar Ray…BUT, in my opinion, Monzon was a greater undisputed world middleweight champion than Robinson. Carlos had just as good a chin, was far more awkward to fight & he actually had better stamina & a better left jab than Robinson. And unlike Robinson, Carlos was a natural middleweight. Also, styles make fights & Robinson had great difficulty against guys who had very good left jabs. Just watch the ‘Saint Valentines Day Massacre’ fight between Robinson & LaMotta & you will notice that LaMotta was outjabbing Robinson consistently over the first 6 or so rounds of that fight. Carlos’s left jab would have troubled Sugar Ray much more (than LaMotta’s) & Monzon would have won a clear cut decision over Sugar Ray over 15 rounds.
Ray Robinson was without doubt the greatest fighter of all time. Homicide Hank, Harry Greb, Willie Pep and Sam Langford were exceptional too but Robinson is just a cut above them all. Great video Rummy. Love this channel.
Long career beat many world champions actually at his best at 147. Was past his best for many of his most famous fights against Basillio, Fullmer, Turpin.
Not sure if Robinson would have beaten the best ever around his weight-classes, who knows, maybe he would have - but there's no doubt he had skills in every area of the game. No real weaknesses. He gets criticised for throwing his power-shots a little wide sometimes, & for leaving himself open when he threw those multi-punch combos, but that's more a case of Robinson being completely committed to his natural style, & his competitive nature. Can't really compare him to anybody else, style wise......maybe Salvador Sanchez - but Sanchez didn't have that one-punch KO power - Robinson's stoppage of Gene Fuller never gets old.
As much as I would like Langford, Charles and Louis as the best ever there is NO doubt in this fans mind that that title firmly rests in the hands of Sugar Ray...no if, but or maybe.
He will undoubtedly be the greatest for all time there’s absolutely no question. Boxing is as one author put it “ the incredible shrinking sport” and there will never be another era with the sheer abundance of competition that his had.
What’s important to know is when Ray Robinson was winning world titles, there was 1 true champion in the divisions and Robinson became a 5 time Middleweight Champion, and held the Welterweight title for 5 strong years.
Black people also did not even have any rights or acceptance in society, he overcame a hell of a lot
I desperately wish boxing would go back to one title. The sanctioning bodies ruined the sport, IMO
@@TripSe7en_77 I like 2 ....give us fans unification bouts...Ali era had 2 titles and that was just fine. Gives fighters 2 routes to a title and we keep unification bouts
@@TripSe7en_77 Nah! It's not the multiple world titles that ruined the sport. It's the business model. The politics. That ruined the sport. Especially the PPV format.
Didn’t he almost become light heavyweight champ too but it was too hot or something
Like the narrator, I would constantly hear, when I was young, that "Sugar Ray Robinson is considered to be the greatest pound for pound boxer, ever." I finally got to see many of his fights and was not disappointed. Up until then, I had seen quite a few truly great boxers but still came to the conclusion that: In boxing, there are stars, there are superstars and then, all by his lonesome, there is the inimitable Sugar Ray Robinson.
Oh yeah? How many of his fights? I doubt your claim.
Then you need to book a check-in with Specsavers ASAP.
The thing about sugar ray is if you saw footage of his fights next to modern fighters (with their footage altered to look historical), you would think he fought in the same era as them. He was just so advanced and technical for when he fought.
I don't see how anyone could not define him as the lb4lb goat
@@keepthechange2811 You doubt...how many boxing matches someone watched?
@@keepthechange2811 what kinda comment is this? Stfu
I Think Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest pound for pound fighter of all time in boxing. In his prime he literally was a robot. Perfect Rhythm, perfect coordination, and perfect punches, or nearly perfect in all those. RIP Robinson.
No he wasn't literally a robot. I wish we had a public educational campaign to teach people the meaning of the word 'literally'.
Next thing was that he was fast and he done that for years
If you're talking about prime I'm going to go with ROY JONES JR!!!!
A robot? You mean he wasn't thinking? That's like saying Charlie Parker improvised like a robot.
@@AiH8U If you shrunk Roy down to Welterweight and had him face Robinson, Jones would have gotten absolutely clobbered.
I love the rocky graziano fight. He literally understood after a single exchange not to press the issue and cleverly moved graziano into a position to land a left that knocked him out. That’s some 4D chess
The sport of boxing has changed so much in the past 60 years that it’s hard to imagine anyone approaching Sugar Ray’s greatness.
I won’t hold my breath, but how awesome would it be to see a kid challenge his place in boxing history?
Never say never.
Earlier on my laptop and im watching ray side by side and a man named Clemente from 1978s vs danny is 125 and is moving way more fluid and way more advanced he is using feints on top of able to combo faster on top of using lateral movement
how about carlos a middleweight as ray was using lateral movement smoothly able to pick off shots from range smoothly and duck and counter smoothly
ray looks sloopy stiff making mutiple mistakes im watchin him now vs joe he looks nothing like these guys
ray and this era looks to be very over extending alot of times to the body and are very hesitant in most movements
they dont fight from range much,they leave themselves open alot
alot of times will just throw to the body and not protect themselves the carlos era was able to protect to body with 1 hand while punching to the body
they use mostly counters when up close,the lateral movement is very basic they dont seem to be able to punch from range while doing it smoothly they have to stop then punch most the time and their feet are mostly tiptoeing instead of carlos era where its like their a quarterback ready to throw the ball
these wasnt big name guys but they clearly as im watching are way more advanced then rays era on top of being more fluid and made less mistakes
Sugar Ray Robinson
PRO record: 174-19-6-2, KO's 109 / World title record: 14-9-1, KO's 8)
- Undisputed Welterweight Champion of the World: 1946-1950 (6-0-0, KO's 2).
- 5-time Undisputed Middleweight Champion of the World: 1951-1951, 1951-1952, 1955-1957, 1957-1957 & 1958-1960 (8-7-0, KO's 6)
- Undisputed Light Heavyweight World Championship Challanger: 1952.
# Most notorious victories: 13 world champions - Jake LaMotta x5, Rocky Graziano, Kid Gavilán x2, Carmen Basilio, Marty Servo x2, Fritzie Zivic x2, Henry Armstrong,
Izzy Jannazzo x3, Bobo Olson x4, Randolph Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Denny Moyer & Ralph Dupas + Sammy Angott, Maxie Berger, Tommy Bell x2, George Costner,
Yoland Leveque etc.
# Most notorious losses: 8 world champion - Joey Maxim, Paul Pender x2, Jake LaMotta, Carmen Basilio, Randolph Turpin, Gene Fullmer x2, Denny Moyer, Joey Giardello,
+ Ralph Jones, Phil Moyer, Terry Downes, Mick Leahy & Joey Archer.
NOTE: Of 19 career losses in 201 professional fights, only ONE time was he stoped - Joey Maxim in his bid for the Light Heavyweight world title that went 13 of 15 rounds.
In the championship bout with Maxim, challanger Robinson built a lead on all three judges' scorecards, but the 103 °F (39 °C) temperature in the ring took its toll.
The referee, Ruby Goldstein, was the first victim of the heat, and had to be replaced by referee Ray Miller. The fast-moving Robinson was the heat's next victim - at the end of round 13, he collapsed and failed to answer the bell for the next round, suffering the only knockout of his career.
His power, if you look closely, is pure physics. Putting every ounce of his mass into some of his punches. But he's so quick and his footwork perfect he never overextends, never out of position.
There’s been some fighters that could punch harder that was faster that had better boxing skills but none had it in combination the way he did
and he had a elite chin as well
@@shdowraithe101 I always said Thomas Hearns had a shot but he didn’t have the chin
@@larrybscott8145 Agreed 100%. If it wasn't for Tommy's chin I definitely think he could've took the throne or at the very least be an extremely close "runner up" cause he was the complete package of a fighter.
@@Ghost10_Hearns boxing skills are highly overlooked and underrated.
The late, great Howard Cosell quoted, "The finest boxer I have ever seen was Muhammad Ali." Both he and Ray Robinson will never be equaled.
@Wiegraf You're so delusional.
SRR's lefthook KO of Gene Fullmer is still a thing of beauty to witness.
Yes... hand's down the GOAT 🐐 100PERCENT
Rummy, without a doubt, Sugar Ray Robinson is and will always be Pound For Pound, The Greatest Boxer Of All Times ❤️👑🥊👏👏👏👏👏👍
Would like to see a video on Ezzard Charles the Cincinnati Cobra. One of the most underrated boxing talents of all time. A man who could have possibly been champion in three divisions and the only man to take Rocky Marciano a full 15 rounds.
There a couple of fighters who took rocky to the full 15
@@professorxaviour3649Ezzard was the only one to go 15 championship rounds with Rocky
Great video! Gave me goosebumps. The only thing I would add is, historians rate Greb/Langford over SRR based purely of the body of work, which when you really boil it down, is all that truly matters in greatness. Robinson was not only great, but the one of the best!, we see that with the decent amount of footage we have to judge his ability on, albiet past his best.
I would personally rate Langford far & above the rest. He moved from the equivalent of featherweight to heavyweight and scored over 100 knockouts against the biggest n best guys the sport had to offer. He has also fought & beat the most HOF opposition in history.
Robinson's greatness is unquestionable, but there are many fighters from pre 1930 that have compiled a resume I would weigh up against him. Langford, Greb, Jack Johnson (for some reason serverly underrated), Harry Wills, Joe Jeanette etc. These guys just did too much in the ring to brush over due to lack of footage. After all, we don't revere someone like Hitler a more prominent conqueror than Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan because there is footage of him doing it. Any way, I'm rambling now, great vid as always!
Thanks BLTV! Appreciate you sharing your take here, and there is definitely a solid case for Langford (and Greb). Cheers.
either way you rank langford or greb, they are a level above the rest imo. yes even above sugar ray robinson
Langford's career was more impressive tbh
The true modernization of boxing came from this man.
I’m young and don’t care much about boxing but I’ve loved Sugar Ray Robinson for years. He is so smooth and just moves different. Sort of like when you see Michael Jordan you just see that he moves different than everyone else.
No he moved like a 40s fighter
Legend has it that Ray's first loss came shortly after Rummy publicly tipped him to beat LaMotta.
I remember last year there were hardly any videos on RUclips about Sugar Ray Robinson. I'm glad that is changing. He was one of the greats and my grandad's favourite of all time.
Edit: my grandad has been a boxing journalist his entire life, has written 5or 6books on the subject, one of his first being on the life of Sugar Ray Robinson. He has been called one of Ireland's top boxing historians. He sometimes gets criticized for his writing style, but he always wrote for the man on the street. He writes for a popular newspaper and he writes books for the population at large. His book is good introduction and general overview of the life and career of Sugar Ray and goes into a lot personal detail around his early life and his life outside the ring.
@Dáithi O'Cinnsealach
. With the greatest of respect my friend. How hard did you look?
@@stephenburns76 there were one or two substandard productions. Oneupload of a documentary from the 90s I think, but most of the large channels had nothing on him. But maybe I missed them all.
@@daithiocinnsealach1982 p
Author name?
I think you pick him as number 1, then you start to think about everyone else but nobody is anywhere near him imo. For a modern boxer for me they'd have to fight 3 times as often win at multiple weights and be at least 80-0 to be considered. Completely agreed with everything you said. Watching the footage with he would genuinely hold his own today which is completely unheard of in any sport because of how much sport evolves
I got Langford then greb. I wish Ray would have fought some fellow black contenders like burley
The sport may "evolve", but that doesn't necessarily translate into a human delivering or absorbing a punch. The main thing with boxing, it's very much predicated by the individual's heart and desire. Yes, if you're speaking of training techniques or video footage of "studying" an opponent for a perceived advantage, maybe modern day boxers can brag about being "better" than fighters of yore. Although, putting a fighter like a Roy Jones Jr. in predicament of having to fight 18 to 20 fights a year over a 3 to 4 year period, do you honestly think he'd fare as well as Robinson did?
@@devilface97 Actually, he fought Aaron Wade
About 3 years ago I looked at a bookshelf that had my late father's books. (He passed away 11 years before that. I was 9. Now it's been 14 years) I found a book called The Sugar Ray Robinson Story. I wondered why he had this. I was then told my dad liked boxing and even did a kickboxing course or something and had a license for it and I found tapes with no writing on them that had boxing matches. Including the Oliver McCall Vs Lennox Lewis II. Sad fight. It's funny I found boxing about 2016-17. And yet I would find out my dad liked it too. Maybe he and me could have enjoyed it together. Especially he could have come to the fighting gym I go to with me. Maybe he would be ok with me having a amateur match (I'm trying to. My family is against it). It's like I received a late gift from my old man. I haven't finished the book yet (not a big reader) and the quarter of the book I've read so far is good! It shows how life was back then as well as boxing. The book is still available I think to purchase but with a different cover. I recommend it! It's a great book with crazy things about his life
Cheers for the insights Rummy. Great choice for a vid. I look forward to some more material on him. I love hearing about the olden days boxers like Jack Dempsey and Sugar Ray. The fights they had were relentless unlike today where a fighter is lucky to fight like twice a year. Cheers Mate.
This is so weird 😂 Last night I posted on my Twitter about Ray Robinson and was trying to find a video you did on him but you hadn't. Literally just now I was typing into the search bar to find a documentary / film about him and your video pops up👍 Boom perfect timing.
He'll always be considered the number one becasue nobody else will ever fight often enough to produce a body of work comparable to Robinson's.
Great episode. His record speaks for itself.
Nice video as always Rummy Taiwo watching from Nigeria 🇳🇬👍🏿
Masterful work Geoff. I had practically the same chat with my dad 50yrs ago and he gave exactly the same answer. He knew much about boxing and I accepted his opinion. Nothing has happened since to change my mind.
Thank you for this and keep up the great work. 👍
brother RUMMY! my fathe,r who was born in 1936 and is no longer with us, said the the very same thing, i rememeber the exact conversation. i couldn't have been ten years oild . the thing that strikes me is the way both men ansered the child's question not only in substance, but in style, my dad didn't hesitate for even one second. he didn't even have to think ... and it was in that same conversation where i learned about the phrase "pound for pound". these are memories to cherish as we get older. PLEASE finish the video you are working on. we'd all love to see it. im all over the bosxing channels here on youtube and yours has to be my favorite, i have no idea how you lerarned so much about the fight game, but you analysis is...so even handed and technically savvy. thank you so much for your hard work and FINISH THAT RIBINSON VIDEO!
When I used to talk boxing with my grandfather, who was a fan, he got the same look on his face about Ray Robinson that I would get talking about Michael Jordan today...one of humble certainty. There was no question for people who were alive then who the GOAT is.
"Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest boxer who ever lived." Said in the style of the barbershop in "Coming to America."
Pound for pound, yes, but Joe Louis was actually stated as the best boxer ever in the barbershop on Coming to America.
There’s been a lot of great fighters but for me Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter that I’ve ever seen and I don’t think he will be surpassed
I'm not qualified to answer but Love what ya do, Rummy. I learn a lot from your channel.
Mr Robinson is the Cy Young of boxing . On another note , the fact that Joe Louis held the heavyweight crown for 12 years is mind boggling .
The greatest boxing machine to ever walk the face on earth
i've heard it said and i think it's true. Not a single video of Sugar Ray in his prime exists. After watching what does exists one can hardly imagine how good he was.
Every time I get a new notification from rummy’s Conner. I scream like I’ve won a lottery. Love from Nigeria 🇳🇬
Absolutely brilliant video...yet again.
Boxing has a long history back to pre-civilization. Rummy's case for available footage along with Ray's accomplishments certainly makes a strong and practical argument. The ancient Greek boxers and pankration fighters had to be tougher than any men in recent times, though. Classical Greek fighters also were dedicated athletes who devoted their lives to training and competition.
I don't have Sugar Ray Robinson at 1, but I do have him at 2. I have Ali and Ray Robinson in my top 2 spots and it's a big distance between them and everyone else in my eye.
I have Ali above Robinson for only 1 reason, 1) Competition. Competition just is in reference to who they fought or were competing against/with in their careers. Now I think Robinson was in a really strong era of Welter and Middle weights, but I wouldn't argue it was the strongest era. I would argue the second strongest for those respective classes, with 40s-50s Welter weight being in contention for 1. 60s - 70s Heavy weight is definitely the best Heavy weight class we've ever seen.
Beating the better competition means more than winning more fights. But mad respect to Robinson, if anyone has him at 1, I don't ever disagree cause it's 100% close. And both Ali and Robinson are hands down 1&2 because both fighters were undisputed champ at least 3 times even well past their prime.
I agree 100% Sugar Ray Robinson is the best pound for pound now and the foreseeable future.
Thanks for this Rummy. You truly put a lot of my own thoughts and opinions about Robinson in this video. Thanks for all the amazing content over the last several years.
Would love one of your championship profiles on Robinson, my favourite section of your page is the championship profiles, brilliant work, brilliantly narrated, full of information, spoken with a passionate voice tone, by far my friend you are the best, boxing Page on social media, you deserve much much more, promotion.
Yep, he gets my vote.
Definitely the greatest Rummy. That record when you break it down and analyse it is incredible. Nobody else gets near.
Well he fought trash that never would make pro in 70s-90s wow
Hey Rummy, as always a great vid mate. Awesome insight from yourself.
Ray Robinson was the greatest PvP fighter of all time.. His record against many, many amazing fighters speaks for itself. The six fight battles with Jake were amazing but also the Fullmer, Greb, Olson, Turpin, Basilio and many other top line fights, plus the longevity places Ray in the number one spot of the greatest fighter ever. Just my thoughts :)
I'm very, very sad that even among the experts and supposedly real boxing fans only sees and knows Robinson's rivalry against LaMotta, Fullmer and Basilio. Hell! That's only cherry on the top! Few fans knows the names of Sammy Anggott, Marty Servo, Fritzie Zivic, Kid Gavilan, Holly Mims, Sugar George Costner, Jimmy Doyle, Jimmy Daniels, California Jackie Wilson, Gene Buffalo, Bernard Docusen, Georgie Abrams, Jimmy Tygh, Robert Villemain, Cyrille Delannoitte, Jean Walzack, Bobby Dykes, Izzy Jannazo, Tommy Bell, Jose Basora, Charley Fusari and Bobo Olson.
But of course I understand the fans, especially the new ones, they had no idea who these guys are and how great they are. The so called experts failed miserably to introduce them to the fans. And even the International Hall of Fame failed to give credit to some of them. Like California Jackie Wilson who I personally think deserves to be in the Hall. Man! He beat Baby Arizmendi, Kid Azteca, Fritzie Zivic and Cocoa Kid. He beat 4 Hall of Famers (5 if you included WBHOF Hall of Famer Ceferino Garcia). That alone says a lot. Even Juan Manuel Marquez had no 4 wins against Hall of Famers.
Outstanding as always! Ooooffff Madon’
What made SRR exceptional was his ability to soak up punishment as much as he dished out.
Ahhhh, the 🐐 debate... An argument that will never be resolved yet we never tire of having it. In a way, it's as much a part of the sport's rich history as the fights themselves.
I think it's important to make a distinction between the greatest (Ali) and the best, who could be somebody like Robinson, Pep Floyd etc...
I agree honestly. Ali has a very special place in my heart, even if he isn't my all time favorite.
You could make the argument that Robinson was also in essence the lightweight champion, as he beat Sammy Angott during Angott's 135 reign.
This was a great video rummy
What does a disservice to alot of fighters over the last forty years is all the belts for one weight class and fighters just don't fight as much as they did back in those days (of course fighters make alot more money now) Robinson has always been number one on my list and what's crazy is we haven't had a chance to see him really at his peak
Most of those fights not available on film
Like the narrator said, his record is impeccable. Undefeated and decorated in gold medals as an amateur 85-0, 69 of those by KO. Undefeated as a pro middleweight, only been stopped once. First loss was against a HUGE LaMotta on a decision. The man was fighting 15 round fights sometimes weekly, that would catch up with everyone. Easy p4p 1, greatest boxer of all time and most, if not all of his records will very likely never be broken.
Sugar Ray Robinson is the best of all time, look at his record, achievements, and the man himself look at the way he sets up Randolph Turpin in the second fight picking each spot before knocking him down. Pure genius its something out of Spartacus. No fighter has done it since or before. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a roman gladiator in a previous life.
If you have a crappy day at work and you come home and its raining out and you need to do something to just make the evening better than the day has been, get a glass of your favorite whiskey, put a couple logs of some well seasoned oak in the fireplace and turn on Rummys corner and watch some damm good boxing analysis from Rummy and I guarantee you will forget all about why this day sucked and your evening will be much better than your morning and afternoon.
He was the greatest..
He beat all the greats at 147 and 135 before the got a chance at 147 belt against Tommy Bell..Amazing career
Agree with your final thoughts on it. I do recall having a VHS once that was about 3 hours long and it was just Suger Ray Fights or partial footage of fights. Was an official release not a recording of the telly compilation. I guess it was a Jim Jacobs released thing back then.
Do you still have it :0?
Great video Rummy!
My guy Rummy, right on time!
I started looking into SRR 2 days ago.
Serious guy!
Bye in large Ray Robinson is number by miles ahead the only boxer from this era that belongs in the top ten is probably Manny at around 10 and Floyd is top 12 or top 15 and Chavez around 15 to top 25 just my opinion. 1950's and 60's and 70's were just built different. Sugar Ray number 1 no question.
Yes Rummy. I'm a massive Sugar Ray fan & pound for pound, he was incredible. I have him in my top 3 of all time, with Sam Langford & Harry Greb. Great stuff. Bless up bro 👊
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest to ever lace them up. The GOAT 🐐 🙌
Robinson’s left hook knockout of Fulmer is greatest single punch of all time. G.O.A.T. Period.
Yes, I lean toward Harry Greb and Sam Langford. I'm right into Ezzard Charles just now. Another of my top 5. The others being Armstrong and Robinson. I've even heard mutterings that Joe Wallcot was a better Welterweight than Robinson. Thanks for the utube suggestion. I'm gonna watch some Ooold Mongoose on Smooooth Legends.✌️
Great video again Rummy. Could you perhaps consider making a dreamfight video between Sugar Ray Robinson and Archie Moore? Both legends were active around the same time and they both fought as middleweights and light heavyweights but never fought each other.
He the greatest of all time. There isnt a more proven complete fighter than Ray Robinson and i dont think it ever will be.
I think, out of the current crop of boxers, Jaron 'Boots' Ennis has a chance to challenge for the the P4P GOAT. He's still young and improving his already impressive skill set and even if he stopped improving he would still go down as a once-in-a-generation fighter based on the eye test. I certainly expect him to become unified champion in multiple divisions.
There are other fighters that could have done it, but many of them are too old now to actually pull it off and they don't fight often enough on top of that.
For me he’s the greatest the movement,speed,power,offence,defence he was a fighting machine. Great vid rummy
I need to agree !. The only reason why people might disagree. Could be as mentioned the lack of material especially from his welterweight time. Just listen to his record of fights. So I can’t see anyone ever surpasses this unbelievable complete genius in the ring. Evolution sometimes makes a perfect machine. Like a shark, crocodile and Sugar Ray Robinson.
You have to watch ‘Reznick’ sugar Ray highlight video it’s a masterpiece.
I've seen it, more than once. Reznick does some great work.
Sadly, even if someone comes along (or has already) with the potential to match or exceed Robinson, the boxing landscape will not allow for the opportunity to show it. A subject like this really shows how devastating politics and bureaucracy can be to sport.
ha! i was literally just deep diving the archives of this channel. i was watching the video about the middleweight tourney from the turn of the century and remembering how it used to be for the post 9/11 downward spiral.
Awesome - thanks
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest of all time, pound for pound. He fought in an age where bouts were 15 rounds and racked up an amazing amount of fights. To put it into perspective, his greatness is equivalent to that of Wayne Gretzky in hockey.
I think to close the door on the best of "all time" is a bad idea. Since what's the point of competing. I think the sport needs to keep pushing the boundaries. I don't agree with "all time" since we never know but I agree with greatest "for now"
Wouldn't the point be to prove the vid wrong? I get what your saying, but changing the mind of someone who is a dead set in their opinion on a GOAT should be one of the side effects of future greatness. This is the case in just about any sport. There were plenty of people who once thought that Wilt Chamberland or Kareem were the best basketball players ever, then Michael Jordan changed many of their minds (but not all). That's just the way it goes. Someone has to come around and change minds. I think your statement about "pushing boundaries" is ironic because, IMO, boxing is so consumed with money making ventures, promoters, governing bodies, and other stuff that doesn't have anything to do with what goes on in the ring that I could hardly say that the sport is pushing much of anything. When is a professional fighter going to fight ENOUGH to be able to be as good for as LONG as Robinson? Or have the insane longevity and number of KO wins as a guy like Archie Moore? That's the issue I think I see here. I'm not saying that guys have to go back to the days of fighting 150 time in a professional career (that's just not conducive to good health anyways), but in the modern era there are folks who need to see something pretty spectacular from a fighter to consider changing their minds, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. Floyd Mayweather is an all time great and I love watching him fight, but he will never be able to convince me in some interview that he was better than X fighter from the past, he would have had to do that in the ring.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Willie Pep
3. Roy Jones Jr
Absolutely, positively, the greatest boxer of all time. The way the sport is today, even if a guy approached his level of talent, the structure would never allow the guy to exceed what Robinson was able to do
He is hands down pound for pound the G.O.A.T
Once again an amazing video by Rummy. If RUclips boxing videos were hotels rummy's channel would be a 5 star hotel with everything you could ask for
I agree there will never be another Walker Smith Jr. In his prime he had it all. He was the perfect fighter. Every decade or so a great young welterweight or middleweight will come along people will say this will be the next Ray Robinson. Of course it never turns out to be true.
It might not really matter, given he's still regarded as the best ever, but I wish more people realized that Robinson was the uncrowned lightweight champion, having defeated the reigning champion Sammy Angott in a non-title bout where Angott came in heavy so as to not risk his title. Title or not title, he proved himself the best fighter in the world at 135, 147 and 160.
Wow!!
What I like about SRR is he fought many guys in their prime and beat them.
My favourite boxing channel rummy is king
One of your best ever videos
& My all time favourite fighter
Whats amazing about boxing is the fact that it has a long history, one with a background that allowed such records to exist. Sugar Ray fought and beat everyone multiple times, proving he was the greatest. Modern boxing cannot attempt this feat due to all the restrictions and rules currently in place. Sure it saves fighters from hetting life changing damage...for the most part, but it also stops the best from fighting the best when it matters.
Where Im trying to go with this is how I envy a bit boxing fans because Im mostly an MMA fan. It has a short history and there is currently less laws that don't infringe on the best fighting the best, but it never truly had an era in which fighters were free to fight whoever they wanted multiple times a year. There was something similar to the early boxing years with PrideFC and UFC, but the competition between the two companies stopped sometimes matchups that should have happened to determine the best of the era. Same thing happens today but to less of a degree, but now we have other problems like popular fighters getting better chances of fighting for the title. And of course fighters dont fight as often or as long as those boxers of old.
The greatest of all time is gonna be much harder to determine in MMA throughout the years than it ever will be in boxing. Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest. MMA has...GSP...Jones...Demetrious...Fedor? Hard to say and I doubt we'll ever get an answer no matter how old the sport gets.
The conversation is between SRR & Floyd. It becomes a conversation of quality vs quantity. Ray versus other HOF opponents struggled a lot more, in comparison to Floyd versus other HOF opposition. I don’t think anyone would question from footage we have for comparison, that Floyd was the more skilled of the two. Age for age comparisons. Ray was in his 30s just like Floyd was in his 30s, but Floyd looked better in the ring. Ray fought in a time where there wasn’t a 100 different sanctioning bodies with multiple belts watering down the competition pool. So Ray more often than Not was getting the best his era had to offer competition wise. Floyd fought in a time where the level of skill is much higher in the average fighter today than it was of yesteryear. And where most of his opponents didn’t need to drive taxis (the phrase taxi driver exists for a reason) to help pay the bills. Floyd fought on average, a higher level of opponent that was FULLY dedicated to professional boxing. That’s the point of the comparison I just made.
The answer comes down to double standards.
Are YOU valuing a lot of filler level opponents in a resume, as a merit for greatness or not? For the uneducated ones in the back, that means if you value it for one fighter you must value it for another. If you discredit one fighter for it, you must discredit another for it as well.
Examples of this: (to help give y’all a head start) Ray was much more of a pure champion than those of the modern era, because less belts/sanctions were around. So he was undisputed because there was less question to his claim as champion than of fighters today. This logic would have to extend to fighters like manny and Canelo, NOT just Floyd because you personally dislike him. Hence that would be a double standard.
Example #2: Floyd was more talented because he beat a much higher level of competition, on average, than who SRR and the fighters of that era were used to fighting. Floyd, furthermore, dominated his HOF opponents in a way that no fighter of that era was able to do. This would have to extend beyond just SRR to include people like canelo and manny as well as people like marciano etc. Or else it would be a double standard.
For me, I rank my p4p based off the LEAST BIAS method possible.
Record (w/l/d/ko)
Resume (who’d they fight)
Performances (how well did they do at winning?)
Accolades (what were their accomplishments in the sport?)
And I take necessary context into key; this comes in handy when doing comparisons. For example (regarding context): I remember the dark years media & maniacally Disillusioned fans tried to claim loma as better than Floyd. Loma then goes onto to be completely dominated by an unproven prospect named teofimo. The excuses for loma were age & size. Well well well. Canelo was 23yrs old (same age Teo was when he beat loma) and much more proven and talented than Teo at the same age. (Canelo was on the p4p list and was the top guy in his division at the time) Canelo had power (knockout artist) and showed so much more versatility in the ring than Teo did at/by that age. Floyd on the other hand was MUCH older than loma was when fighting teo. Floyd was OUT of his prime. Loma was still in his, considering all the hype beforehand. Final nail in the coffin is this, teo came in 135lbs to the fight. Rehydrated very close to that weight if not at that weight. Canelo came in 165lbs against Floyd, who came in 150lbs.
What were the results of those respective bouts? A shut door victory for Teo over loma. And a completely dominant 12 round masterclass performance from Floyd in a sweeping victory over Canelo.
THAT is how I apply context. Fairly.
As for SRR or Floyd in the goat conversation. I lean towards Floyd.
I view GREATEST and BEST as two different things. I view Robinson as the BEST ever on a p4p sense. I view Ali as the GREATEST, as he had the biggest impact on the sport
Nobody in the entire history of boxing has had more influence & or a more direct influence on boxing than Robinson..
Ali credits him as an influence therefore anyone influenced by Ali has been influenced by Robinson.
Their style can be seen to this day in Usyk & Fury.
That legacy is undeniable & for that reason alone its impossible for anyone to usurp Robinson as the all time #1.
Ali, Holmes, Hearns, Bowe, Lewis, Leonard, Jones Jr. Lomachenko.
Most of the best of what we have seen since Robinson retired has been influenced directly or indirectly by Robinson.
Yer gonna have to wipe out civilization n start all over again if you hope to dethrone Robinson.
Just subscribed to Smooth Legends
You have to do a Carlos Monzon video I think in my opinion he's top 5 pound for pound fighter
I second what Gabriel writes. Monzon didn’t fight as ‘pretty’ or picture-perfect as Robinson, nor did he score nowhere near as many spectacular one punch KOs as Sugar Ray…BUT, in my opinion, Monzon was a greater undisputed world middleweight champion than Robinson. Carlos had just as good a chin, was far more awkward to fight & he actually had better stamina & a better left jab than Robinson. And unlike Robinson, Carlos was a natural middleweight. Also, styles make fights & Robinson had great difficulty against guys who had very good left jabs. Just watch the ‘Saint Valentines Day Massacre’ fight between Robinson & LaMotta & you will notice that LaMotta was outjabbing Robinson consistently over the first 6 or so rounds of that fight. Carlos’s left jab would have troubled Sugar Ray much more (than LaMotta’s) & Monzon would have won a clear cut decision over Sugar Ray over 15 rounds.
Ray Robinson was without doubt the greatest fighter of all time. Homicide Hank, Harry Greb, Willie Pep and Sam Langford were exceptional too but Robinson is just a cut above them all. Great video Rummy. Love this channel.
I've got Sugar Ray Robinson at #1, with Joe Louis as a very, very close second.
Long career beat many world champions actually at his best at 147. Was past his best for many of his most famous fights against Basillio, Fullmer, Turpin.
I acknowledge him as the God of Boxing. Walker Smith Jr. Aka Sugar Ray Robinson (RIP)
Not sure if Robinson would have beaten the best ever around his weight-classes, who knows, maybe he would have - but there's no doubt he had skills in every area of the game. No real weaknesses.
He gets criticised for throwing his power-shots a little wide sometimes, & for leaving himself open when he threw those multi-punch combos, but that's more a case of Robinson being completely committed to his natural style, & his competitive nature.
Can't really compare him to anybody else, style wise......maybe Salvador Sanchez - but Sanchez didn't have that one-punch KO power - Robinson's stoppage of Gene Fuller never gets old.
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest of all time
Forever Champion. Even if someone managed to surpass him he has such a Legacy so yes he is our eternal Champ.
🥊❤️🥊
As much as I would like Langford, Charles and Louis as the best ever there is NO doubt in this fans mind that that title firmly rests in the hands of Sugar Ray...no if, but or maybe.
I approve this message .... SUGAR RAY ROBINSON NO QUESTION ...
I think it is a testament to SRR that Leonard took his name and Ali (when Clay) aspects of his style.
He will undoubtedly be the greatest for all time there’s absolutely no question. Boxing is as one author put it “ the incredible shrinking sport” and there will never be another era with the sheer abundance of competition that his had.
To me I can't still haven't seen someone capable of beating Roy John Jr. on his Prime.