When a woman gets drunk the men around her need to protect her and give her a safe ride home WITH A GIRLFRIEND to attend her and put her to bed. Real men, even drunk, know not to abuse a woman.
As a man who has been very drunk a number of times, being drunk never makes you lose enough control to do that unless you're already a violent person. I can't imagine ever wanting to SA someone while drunk. People with violent tendencies need to stay fully sober, period.
@@raigenhuss7030Unfortunately sëxual assąult is genderless. Many boys/men have been assaulted by men and women too. But women are certainly more vulnerable than men and in Mormonism, people are not taught correctly about consent and blame tends to get shifted onto victims, especially women.
@@raigenhuss7030Anyone of any gender or sexuality can be a predator or a victim, we're still sure if its rarer that it happens to cishet men or they're just less able to reach out or even admit what is going on. Especially the stigma if the abuser is a woman. But until recently women had much less ability to get help and more likely to receive this level of extreme stigma and shame than men
@@ScottJB it doesn't have to be violent. Most of the time this stuff happens and there's no evidence of force because the woman is passed out. There's no fighting against him. So, no violence. It's still a violation.
Her mom’s response makes me so angry. She gave her daughter the silent treatment for three days after she told her about horrific abuse she endured? 😢😡
@@chlyri Yes, the proof is that it's not logically possible. Have you ever heard of a secular/nonreligious family thinking a r@pe is a sëxual sin on the part of the victim? Is that even possible if they are nonreligious? Being secular in the sense of not believing in religion (which is what most people will interpret what I said as meaning) and believing in sexual sin are mutually exclusive. How can you believe in sin and also not believe in religion or a god? Explain.
@ScottJB You're surely joking. It doesn't matter what background you have, sexual assault happens in every setting among any kind of belief or unbelief. Sin exists if you believe in it or not. Victim shaming happens in every possible arena. It's vile and destructive. It's one huge mess of life we live in this world. What makes life live-able is God's love and forgiveness and kind and compassionate people.
@@laurenshannon2703 that's a straw man of what I said so you either didn't understand or are misrepresenting. I didn't say SA can't happen in all contexts. It does. What I said does NOT happen in all contexts is an obsession with the concept of "sexúal purity" and sexuâl sin, esp. when misapplied to victims. Those cancerous ideas create situations that don't exist in secular frameworks, like the idea that a r@pe victim has engaged in sexuâl sin and lost their "purity" by being rãped. This podcast explains how the "licked muffin" or "used goods" philosophy, among others, is so dangerous. Particularly for SA victims.
I confided in a friend that my step dad was abusing me. She told me that she was abused when she was a baby but she doesn’t complain about it, because she is a positive person and I am a negative person. She has two kids now, I am concerned for them. I hate Mormon toxic positivity
Abuse, especially SA, is NEVER okay. Not towards a baby, not towards a child and not towards an adult. That's just bs abusers tell everyone to keep victims silent.
WAAT did she say😱😡?? I have heard this kind of behavior from women before, but the level of outrageous shock i feel everytime anew is absolutely crazy. That makes me furious and i DONT UNDERSTAND!!! I'm going to use the word Rape. I hate when the word is mildened down to SA, Abuse, Molestation etc, Rape is real, Rape is ugly and it should be screamed out loud because sadly it is a huge thing in our society and nothing that should be hushed. (Sorry for ranting😬) Rape kills you from the inside and you are never the same. My life took a very dark path because of it sadly. That this despicable person told you you are negative and made you feel that way is just absolutely unforgivable! Especially when you were so very brave to even tell her. Its like a whole new betrayal. People need to wake up and women need to stick together. This behavior cannot be passed on to our children anymore. That damn cycle needs to stop! Take care and i hope you can somehow still live your best life💪💜
Ugh! Babe, I hate that for u! & I hate that she made u feel bad! I can never understand how anybody can view a child or baby as anything sexual! It breaks my heart! Glad that you're in a position to know she's wrong & I hope you never believed it back then! 💖💕💖
I wrote a longer comment and it disappeared so I am just going to say thank you both so much. This was perfect for me. I realized that I have felt that the price I paid for rejecting Mormonism was to live the rest of my life as a snuffed out candle. The light glowing here this morning woke me up to the realization that I still can shine. Thank you, thank you so very much. 🙏💜🙏💜🙏
Of course you can still shine bright. In fact, I say post-religiousity people can shine brighter because they can actually learn more and truly get to know themselves and what they think-not what they've been told to think! So let your light shine!
I know that it's a Mormon-ism holdover, but watching Kris tell her horrific story through this pained smile, only breaking every so often when she couldn't hold the tears back, and then putting the smile back on to continue... it made her story just so much more tragic because she *still* has that sense of needing to put on a happy face and pretend to be okay even when she isn't. The tears welling up as she kept smiling and tried to keep an upbeat tone just made me want to reach through the screen and give her a hug. Kris, if you're reading this, please know that you do not need to put on an act. You are allowed to drop the smile, frown, lower your voice, furrow your brow, etc. Let it out. No one in this space is going to judge you for it. You are free.
Thanks for the support! Believe me, I've frowned, cried, yelled, screamed, furrowed my brows over this story many a time. :) If I let myself cry the entire time ya'll wouldn't have been able to understand what I was saying - there's a time to hold it together! 😉🩷
The fact that they made a r*pe victim have basically go to a public COURT to get punished for something that was done to her is so wild and heinous and absolutely abhorrent. I am so glad y'all got out. They don't deserve your light and spirit
Sometimes ppl say "never me" and that they dont understand how other ppl did this or that . at 17 I went to a dr with my mom .he was 80 and working from home.During the examination he was inappropriate .I reacted mildly bcoz I was comfused as I was taught: "we trust the Dr "😮 When I got out I tried to convince my mom to at least scare him pretending we ll a lawyer but she didn't want to . (So I returned a week later slaped him and told his wife who was 20yrs younger) Fast forward 20 yrs and I ask my mom "why" she said she didn't believe me because the Dr s wife ,whom she had seen for 5min.told her that her husband isn't like that!
My son’s girlfriend was s/a by a stepdad in high school,no one in her family would believe her or help her, she finally told, and he never went to jail, and her mom is mad at her from telling. Abuse and betrayal ! She now has seizures, ( trauma), and unable to live a normal life.
Kris, if you’re reading this, I hope you know how lovely of a presence you are. Your story made me cry multiple times. Thank you for breaking the silence. I was close to being sucked into Mormonism in high school, stories like this make me so glad I wasn’t.
I’ve never been Mormon but the missionaries used their Word of Wisdom to tell me that God isn’t answering my prayers because I drink coffee. So I’m not worthy for my prayers to be answered because of Folgers.
Ugh! Huge eyeroll to that notion. What’s worse is they have their kid missionaries teach this BS to grown ass adults. This is the smallest example of the thick layer of shame on almost EVERYTHING you do.
@@CultstoConsciousness Indeed. For reference they are around 19. I’m 65. We started the conversation talking about why God seems to not answer very many prayers. That’s when they said you have to be “worthy” to get answers from God. I was respectful to them but it was a frustrating conversation especially considering our age difference. They were 100% sure of themselves, even a bit cocky.
I was SA'd by a boyfriend shortly after I turned 16. I told my Mom that if he called or came by I'm not available & hang up or don't even answer the door. She said I needed to tell her why "if I expected her to be mean to him". I told her "he tried to r*pe me" she laughed & said I was inexperienced, he was just being a boyfriend. She continued to give me the phone when he called & continued to let him in the house to wait for me when I wasn't home...until I was 20!
I confided in my mom in my 30’s that I was SA-ed a number of times due to lack of communication as to what consent actually is…first time I was 18 and it happened with one of my best friends involved, I used to tout that story as my first threesome until I recounted it to a friend who informed me that it wasn’t consensual on my part as I had been trying to sleep and had said no a number of times before my friend started to undress me. I had known the encounter had made me feel bad, but didn’t know why…but all my mom did when I told her was blame me for drinking and putting myself in that situation. My mom is a survivor of SA, something she talks about a lot and it was quite jarring to hear her victim blame. I really wish our mothers would stop perpetuating rape culture.
19:30 this has my heart racing from anger. I can’t believe some women tried to accuse a child of stealing because she had nice pants on. She ever think maybe the mom wanted her kid to have nice clothing and saved up for them? I know she didn’t and they were gotten for her by someone else but still. Just because someone is poor doesn’t mean they can’t save up and provide for their children. That woman is a sadist and wanted to humiliate her for self gratification. What a sick and disturbed person
I know many poor families who save to buy nicer clothes and shoes for their kids simply because they tend not to look worn out as quickly as less expensive options; if the kid outgrows it and it still looks good, that thing can be passed down to a sibling or cousin!
God this is bringing me back to Catholicism experiences, purity culture shit is too real, I as a girl was told on multiple occasions “all women must keep their knees together while sitting, hands in your lap to not distract men” which is its own full issue I have
They really think dudes have X-ray vision. It’s almost comical how little credit they give themselves when it comes to self control. How are they gonna say women are inferior and men need to be in charge but say they can’t go about their day without popping a boner if they see a bare shoulder or a fully clothed woman who isn’t actively covering her crotch?! **eyeroll**
@@CultstoConsciousnesswithout X-ray vision, guys find fully clothed women attractive. Purity culture is just an excuse to blame the woman when they can’t control themselves.
Wow, at 80, converted to Catholicism at 9, because I saw children dressed for Ist Communion and was impressed, I have never experienced any of this irrationality in the RC Church. Maybe it's because I live in Boston where everyone (more or less) is smart, rational & quick to say "Whoa, I ain't going for that!" I'm going 'the hell u say!' 'Course I was told to keep my knees together, but by my AME family members. I was not oppressed by cultish nonsense. I was FREE as a child to do whatever.
I am a Catholic, our purity culture goes for both men and women. Men keep it in the pants, girls keep the legs close. It’s how we see sex, which is powerful, so it must be respected. That boob touching, just go to confession, there is a screen between you and the priest. The Priest would not have you miss church nor the holy communion. He probably have you go to extra church (most likely pray a rosary or what not) because God is for sinners who wish to repent. So if you deep into sin the only solution is finding what is causing the sin and getting help through prayer and other means. If you get drunk and get sa-ed. Your only sin is getting drunk. Drinking is fine but overindulgence is what makes it a sin, but SA-ed is not the sin so you don’t have to apologize for that and must be reported so others won’t fall victim to the same fate.
I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and I was not SA’d thankfully - quite a few of my friends were - but I did have to confess in detail about losing my virginity. I was 17 and had to confess in front of 3 elders, my mom and dad. It’s was traumatizing.
That's still sexual abuse, it's not physical sexual abuse, but you were still abused sexually through mental and emotional abuse and humiliation. Just because no one physically touched you doesn't mean it didn't have a similar impact on you. You were humiliated publicly, your personal autonomy was taken from you, you were forced to cross boundaries with your parents over topics they had no right to even be involved in. What happened to you WAS abuse and it WAS NOT your fault.
In this context I agree, she shouldn’t have had to talk about it with the elders and her parents in a “confession” situation, but as a minor still living at home, her parents would have had the right to speak with her about safe sex, emotions and possibilities that come along with losing your virginity in a productive way. In a majority of these situations though, I highly doubt a productive non judgmental conversation would be possible.
@vagirl19 making someone recount the details of losing their virginity to their parents and 3 random other adults so they can shame you is not a safe sex talk, it's humiliation, it's abuse, it's religious exploitation.... but it's definitely not a safe sex talk
There is something so so deeply disturbing about telling these random older men of authority about what you're doing or what happens to you as a teenager. It feels gross, creepy, and can lead to abuse. This incredibly brave woman experienced so many people failing her in one of the worst experiences a person can have. These insitutions that hold so much power over others are so damaging because their rules that do not evolve and create a lack of empathy and blame.
It’s absolutely disgusting that “bishops” are random men from the community. It’s an insanely problematic power structure intentionally built to allow the men of the community to violate the women and control them via shame. The boys are subject to the same thing, but how much do you want to bet there’s a lot more “we understand boys have needs” going on when it comes to their confessions? Whereas, the girls are judged, shamed, and their private intimate lives shared among the other men. So gross. I don’t even like the concept of confessing to priests who are behind a screen in private and don’t tell anyone else about it. Why do I need to discuss my sins to another human being for judgement, if they’re not God? No, sir.
That is the common element of so many of these cults. The so- called spiritual rituals actually encourage an obsession with the sexuality of children. Like, what's up with naked baptism?
I want to thank the brave people that come on these shows. I too grew up in the mainstream l d s church And have quite the story to tell, including being kidnapped twice by a noncastodial parent. And my mom just knowing, her prayers were answered when I was eventually brought back instead of calling the police. Well, I won't go in to all of the traumas of growing up in a very Strict and prepper home. My story I've been told is one for the books. I see you and I hear you, Thank you for sharing your stories
I was punished by my parents for getting SA’d as a teenager. They said I put myself in the situation. I believed them and blamed myself. Decades later, I was preyed upon, threatened and stalked by another predator. My parents reminded me how I put myself in those situations. My parents, not the predators, destroyed my hope and trust forever.
It's so weird to tell a grown man about inappropriate behavior... Seriously. (I remember in my last year of primary, the bishop telling us that oral sex is wrong. Only to find out later, he was sexually abusing his own kids
A bishop I told about my SA responded the exact same and now I’m thinking that this may be a matter of policy-that any woman who is sexually assaulted must have a disciplinary council! Meanwhile, my husband was messing around with other women-he didn’t need a disciplinary council, but because I was SA’d, “we might need to hold a disciplinary council for you-even though legally you are not responsible for being r@&ed,” he told me, “in the eyes of God, you ARE responsible for what happened to you.”
That’s horrendous.!!!! Sorry that you went thru that. No it’s NOT your fault in any way whatsoever that someone attacked you! They are evil and need to be in prison so other women are protected from them. It IS. Asian however turning a blind eye on their fellow churchgoers who was cheating against his wife! Essentially giving a stamp of approval. I’m a Baptist and we certainly don’t have a bishop but the ladies would have supported you thru the pain. I hope you can fina great place to worship like Baptist, Church Of God, Church Of Christ, Methodist or Presbetyrian. Blessing to you.
@@VelveteenRabbit77 It's a bit of a low kind of act to be using a site such as this to try to be recruiting vulnerable people into another religion while they are still trying to overcome the problems of their past one.
@@tanyabrown9839 If no one speaks out about cults then people won’t know that there are good ole churches to go to. Christian churches that love and support their people. Churches that don’t have “ councils” or “ bosses” or hierarchies. Especially polygamist cults where women are usually treated badly. If “ The Lost Boys” that were banned and thrown away fro warren Jeff’s cult don’t hear of good churches how will they know??? My comment comes from a place of compassion and a heavy heart for what she has been thru my gosh! Your recruitment comment not from a place of kindness.
I think I just moved to this town. I’ve been here in JC for 10 days. I left the cult in May but I need to live with my brother and his wife, she has been here since the 70s. I can’t be sure if it’s the same town but I bet it’s in the general area.
This was a tough one...the Church leaders and her mom failed her. Gosh I hate the grip the church has on our common sense. The Bishop isn't qualified to deal with that situation, and treating a SA victim as a sinner is morally wrong and sick. She needed love and comfort, not guilt and shame. I am so glad and I am deconstructing. It is tough, but easier because I was in active since I was in college, so for around 15 years. The Church could be great, and would be if it was the 'true church,' but all of the stories out there like this, along with the stain history proves it isn't. I am so sorry for your experience, Kris! No one should have to go through that.
As a male who left the Mormon church much earlier in my development (16-17) I am horrified and inspired by the stories of all these females who've endured so much at the hands of religious persecution. As a 54 yr old I've journeyed through being religious, to being non-religious but "spiritual", to now being a full on agnostic atheist. My advice to anyone still on their journey is to always seek the truest understanding they can of the world, and try to strive to live your life authentically. For me, I try to seek that through the best vehicle of understanding humans have developed, science. It seems like Kris is still on a path of trying to live an authentic life now, and I wholeheartedly support her in that.
Getting punished for skipping seminary with missing school games sounds like a lack of separation of church and state and should not have happened. Victim shaming is the worst. I was livid throughout most of this video.
Both of you are survivors! My heart is so full of mercy for the very hard things you both endured. ❤❤ Thank you, Shelise. You are helping others not to feel alone, and you have established a whole support network for people who really need it. ❤️
I blame the mom. She should never sent her daughter to that bishop. It is none of his business. The people who come on this programme are so strong. They go through things no one should have to go through.
🩷 thanks for the support Melissa. Ya know, we all go through so many things & experience things so differently. The way my mom handled this situation at the time was where she was at in her own healing journey. It's not an excuse, just acknowledging that we all have dealt with things before in a way that probably wasn't the best. Blaming her wouldn't help me feel better or make the situation go away.
I keep listening to all these stories and what really hits me hard is that I was not raised in a cult, or a strict religion and yet all of these things were happening in my life because my mother had been raised Catholic and 'she' perpetrated these abuses on her children. She wouldn't talk about s3x, she wouldn't talk about menstruation, she wouldn't talk about our bodies or what was happening to us as we matured, she was so crazy strict about us not drinking and doing drugs (yet all the adults were allowed to drink). All she ever said about sex was 'good girls don't', 'you save it until you get married'. Everything was our fault and we could never do anything right no matter what we did. When my first boyfriend sexually assaulted me I was too afraid to talk to her because she always bad mouthed 'loose' women and said 'well, if they didn't dress that way or drink', so I knew she would blame me for the assault. It took me over 30 years to understand I had been sexually assaulted and to understand that my mother was also abusive.
I am not LDS, but I grew up in small SE Idaho town. I was so immersed in the community that this painfully resonates with me even being non-mormon. I'm so thankful for my strong parents!
Coming from a non-emotional family and not being taught what consent is, it’s cruel. Thank You to both of you for telling this story. Even though I felt extremely triggered I feel somehow it is helpful. The whole sexual human aspect of being a human is such a traumatic shity experience in the Church.
This story really resonates with me.This is the first I’m saying anything about this on the internet. I was raised Southern Baptist. I lost my virginity at 18 and we went to our parents about it, we both prayed and felt God had forgiven us. (Now purity culture exists. But growing up we were able to be open about it with our parents, but really what teenager is going to go to their parents about that kind of thing.) Fast forward a couple years I am now about 19-20. It somehow gets brought up to our new pastor. The pastor then comes to my home ( I was living with my parents) for lunch between church on a Sunday between church. My Mom is smoker but she doesn’t do it in the house. So the new pastor and my Dad wait until my Mom goes outside to smoke. The pastor then asks me if I’d be willing go before the church and ask them to forgive me for fornicating. I told him I’d pray about it and get back to him. There is more to the story. I now have a beautiful relationship with God and am currently looking for a home church. It’s just hard for me sometimes because I guess I just have this fear of this now. I just love how God loves all of us and can be for each of his children what that specific person needs, because everyone is different and we all have different stories so what we all need is different. It’s a very personal relationship that is just beautiful how he can bring peace and comfort. I still feel the peace and comfort of the night I got saved in 2019 after all that happened with the pastor.
I was too!! I was kicked out of Christian college b/c I was assaulted but it was my fault because I suggested we hang out sometime, initially. Nothing happened to him at all. He graduated
I felt exactly the same way! It happened when in Christina college in PHOENIX TOO!! And instead of just violated , I felt like a failure and ashamed. Like, Welp, now I’m a crushed flower that could never be beautiful again, only broken. I was so scared of the shame if ppl found out, even though I tried to fight him off!! I went to urgent care the next day to get plan b (rx only in 2005) and cried to the little old white haired dr that it hurt too bad to do a pelvic exam, just just couldn’t get pregnant, I just could handle telling my parents that kind of news! Got grilled in a panel review ti decide if I should be expelled from school once someone found out from him bragging and it got back to the administration. They offered completely unreasonable rules and curfew and letter to student body apologizing for putting HIM in that situation he couldn’t stop himself in, or expulsion. Meanwhile my mom finds out and literally passes out in the floor and hysteria for weeks. So I went fully head on into hedonism! I was raped and lost everything and knew nothing about anything except making out, not even my own vagina very much! So bring on the Drugs, sex, alcohol, u name it, I’ve prob done it. (Def not the one to play “never have I ever” with lol) fast fwd to now, my child I had a few years later, out of wedlock, is going to be 13 on Sunday and not only is she loved and adored by mg family and any one who has the privilege of meeting her sassy, kind little self. She saved me, she gives me strength I need to be a single mom and she already is the fiercest, discerning, critically mind woman that knows exactly who she is and how she deserves to be treated and treat others as human beings. I could not be prouder and neither could her adoring Grandparents and aunts and uncles who actually never skipped a beat and welcomed her and my niece with open arms more than enough to make up for not having dads in their lives. Grandpa is a good kind, patient example of literally the best dad u could ask for. If I had to go back, I would do it all again if I knew it would end up where we are today! Healing took 20 yrs but light on the other side
Making a young woman 'confess' to sexual assault is institutionalized victim blaming. That you were made to talk about your trauma in front of community members who are not trained therapists, are not bound by medical ethics, and are listening in order to decide on your 'punishment' is abuse.
Thank you for continuing to highlight these stories. Thank you to your guests for being so vulnerable. So many things that were discussed here are so relatable to so many religions. I grew up in the Lutheran Church. This conversation helps me continue to work out of the guilt, shame and manipulation in religious messaging.
Kristjana, thank you for sharing your story!! Kris knows this, but I am from the same little town and grew up in the same time period and graduated a few years after she did. I experienced similar things, but I chose the path of lying to my church leaders and parents to save my image and protect me from possible church discipline. I too went back to the church after leaving in college and got sealed, but 6 years later we left for good. I'm so thankful for the one woman (I know who it is) that offered you the only assistance you had during a time where you endured a horrible trauma and were treated so badly by everyone else. Lets all buy Buckle jeans for and protect those girls who dont have anyone to go to when they need help ❤
Love you my sweet Sarah! Thank heavens for KH who helped & bought me my first buckle jeans. 🩷 xx SO happy to hear you've found peace & can hardly wait to catch up in person someday. You 2 have always been a couple of my favorite humans.
Your story is heartbreaking in so many ways. As a mother, I could never have had that cold reaction to one of my daughters. These Bishops should not be in the positions they are in. It makes me wonder how many are perverts. Young girls should have a female to disclose these intimate details to. I'm just happy Kris has survived and is now happy and healthy!
I’m only half way through. Thank you both so much for being open about your experiences. . I went to a church conference with my “fiancé” at the time. He ended up putting drugs into my drink, and he SAed me. I don’t remember most of it. I had gone to my bishop, my bishop placed the blame fully on me. I didn’t go back for 7 years. When I finally did go back. I met with the bishop and confessed to illegal things I had done to survive, and I was told to wait 5 years for statues of limitations to come back and repent. Now I feel as if I’ve learned and lived too much to go back.
Go to a non Denominational church and let people love on you there. They won't string you out to dry. Keep worshipping and learning and serving with another group of believers.
I'm so sorry you experienced that, and I hope you will speak to someone with experience about your next steps and not take advice from RUclips comments! (I know, the irony.) I believe the truth is within you, and you will know the right steps to take when you're ready.
A standing applause for you and for you defining your own life and happiness, Kris. I grew up in diverse religious family including Mormons. My father and mother were protestant and roman catholic and because of the respective tension there I was told I was "not a child of god" by a priest at an age where, while still young, I understood and fully. I felt I was a flawed, broken, unworthy. As time wore on I learned and questioned deeply which led me to calling myself agnostic for a long time, to the literal horror of my extended family. The things I was told, the names i was called, the hell and horror I was promised... You can imagine what I experienced years later when I realized I was an atheist. I'll spare the details in this forum for the sake of brevity and politeness. Moving on, I feel your attitude towards life and growth is a treasure, a wealth of strength, perspective and positivity despite the trials and tribulations of fundamentalism. Thank you for sharing your story, Kris.
My heart goes out to her. Trauma, especially SA trauma and religious trauma, let alone combined, is really hard to overcome. I wish more parents and authorities in the church would stop victim blaming. I still have trust issues with my parents even though it's been nearly 12 years. We still talk, but I never talk about my personal life with them.
Your story & voice have immense power. By putting your experiences & struggles out in the light, you make it impossible for shame to survive. Shame only lives in the dark. You’re so courageous & strong to be where you are today. You deserved so much better growing up & I hope you’re now creating the life you deserve & choose for yourself. Thank you for your willingness to be so vulnerable & share your story. 🫶
I would like to thank so much for this Chanel ❤ I grow up in a very restricted environment as evangelical here in Brazil. There are so many things in common. The shame, guilt, crazy rules, oppression, fear. I’ve been completely out for 5 years. It’s life changing to be able to live in peace. These conversations helps me feel that I’m not alone ❤
Kris, I have a 20 year old daughter and the thought of something so horrific happening to her, and her not feeling comfortable telling me immediately is heartbreaking. You’re a beautiful person to afford your mother the grace of understanding that she’s a nuanced, complex person herself, but what happened to you is indisputably wrong. Period. The way she handled it was wrong. You deserved to have a mother wrap her arms around you to comfort & reassure you. What happened to you is NOT your fault. ❤ Having to tell men in your community what happened so they could judge you is disgusting. I want to give you a huge hug!
She touches on something I'd heard from others in similar situations (not always cults!) When one is criticized and punished harshly for *everything,* one rationalizes she may as well do as wants.
"If you're not happy, you're doing something wrong." The main message my whole life growing up in the mormon church. I now know I have hEDS. There is nothing good about growing up with that type of messaging. I was, and still am in my TBM family's mind, just a bad person because I didnt go along and live "righteously." You're not alone. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this f*cked up messaging too. Thank you for your story.
This was great! Reminds me of leaving the Mennonite cult. You guys are awesome. . .and glad you brought in the spirituality and chakras, because the crown is really where you can see the evidence of spirituality.
After processing complex trauma, through traditional therapeutic realms, stepping into energy, work to align, chakras and open more than just your mind, is truly the cherry on top of the hard work you’ve put in. Like you’ve said, you can’t discount it until you’ve experienced it when it comes to trying other modalities in life. My personal energy work happened when it needed to happen and it revolutionized my mind, body and soul. I absolutely can feel that same energy from you. It’s hard to rationalize having had to experience the level of trauma to get to this euphoric peace of mind, but isn’t it fucking amazing?
There is such a big picture when it comes to what is true. Working with energy/chakras/kundalini etc etc... had me able to confirm my belief in past lives as I now remember parts of many of my previous ones (something which ended up happening spontaneously, I don't believe that it's good to try to push for such knowledge as one then could end up with false memories but with just working oneself such memories can come in). With that remembering of myself from times past comes the knowing that I have had lives in many different religions... taking me beyond the need to be in a religion. There are so many interesting paths we follow in our lifetimes.
Literally no different to Emma Smith's ex-husband claiming Jeebus told him he just had to marry multiple women and men have the power to heal people by magicK spirit
Very brave of you to share your story. I think many people will listen to your story and it will help them to heal. The judgment and coldness given to you from everyone who was supposed to love and care for you is inexcusable. I am so glad you were able to step back and see this judgment and condemnation for what it was: ABUSE. A bunch of men sitting in judgment of a young girl who has been assaulted is shocking and infuriating. The fact that no one brought in a licensed therapist is mind blowing. Leaving was a blessing. Live your best life❤❤!!
this woman is so incredibly incredible and brave. so open and intelligent. i don’t know how anybody can live through that and come out thriving and happy. i couldn’t even get through hearing about her story without crying. it’s simply amazing the work she put in to be where she is now.
No joke. The last LDS woman I dated she confessed to me that her first sexual experience was forced, she confessed to her bishop and she lost her temple recommend. Because she “put herself in that position “
So I was told the same thing, that because I was assaulted, that in God’s eyes I was responsible for what happened to me, and that I should have a disciplinary council held for me. I’m wondering how many other women were told the same thing? Is this more a matter of policy and normal practice in the church, or are Kris and myself just outlier cases? Really interested to hear if other women have been disciplined or threatened with church discipline for having been assaulted?
wow what an amazingly beautiful woman inside and out ... her story really touched me because she went through that whole struggle alone ... it totally rang bells for me too ... especially when she said there is so much more spirituality out there in the world ... well done Kris you totally followed your own heart and mind and thats not easy when it means hurting your family ... or at least hurting your families conditioned belief system ... wow ... you go girl always follow your heart ... I was the only one that hated the temple ceremony but was told it was my fault I need to pray more fast more ... it took ages to see no ... my gut feelings were right for me .x
First, as one survivor to another, you are doing amazing. From your timeline, it sounds like we were suffering around the same time. I'm beyone proud to see you on this side of it all and thriving. 💖 And second, one saying that changed me fundamentally is that the first thing that pops in your mind is from the voices that raised you, but the second thing you think is who you are. I used to feel so bad about myself because I would think such hateful, judgemental things when I knew I had changed. But they were always followed up with corrections. "No, that wasn't kind" or "that was so inappropriate". As time goes on, the first voice isnt as loud as it was once. It gets easier, and change is possible, but don't beat yourself up if part of who you used to be lives with you still. You wouldn't be who you are now without their help. You did the best you could with what you had, and look at how much you've grown! Amazing, phenomenal episode. Such resilience in these stories, it is truly inspiring. ❤
What you have been through is appalling and extemely disturbing that some children are being shamed for things that they had no control over,. Thank you for bringing light on this subject and will encourage others to finally believe that they are not at fault.
I'm listening to your story right now. The audacity of those men to judge you. The utter gall of those so called religious people. You NEVER did anything wrong. This comes down to mental abuse after being.... urgh I have no words. Let's just say that the people from the community that was your home, who dared to think even one iota worse about you, are just as bad as the men/boys who took advantage of you in the first place.
This is exactly why I never disclosed my SA while I was a teen living with my parents and actively attending. You’re taught in the church to fight for your life and it’s better to die fighting to save your “virtue”, and if you don’t it’s your fault. Therefore I fugured it was my fault and would be repremanded by a bunch of old white guys who had no business in my business. At the time I had no idea how common it was within the church but I’m super glad i stuck with my gut and kept my secret until I was ready to start deconstructing. And btw this account has been *so* helpful while deconstructing so thank you thank you thank you
Kris, I am so proud of you for finding your way out and to the peace you share, and I'm so sorry you endured so much to get there. These stories continue to increase my gratitude for my family's lack of commitment (but we did keep the guilt). Keep up the phenomenal work Shelice (and Jonathan).
Kris, such a powerful story told so eloquently with such truth. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us with so much vulnerability and grace. I know there are young people who will find such courage in your story and the hope of envisioning a joyful future. I loved how you talked about what spirituality looks like to you. If we do not believe it for ourselves, how can we practice it? I have experienced such a revulsion to all things related to my former beliefs. I have only now years later been able to maintain poise and the ability to speak my truth to it with love and grace as you did. I'm smiling at you!! Thank you - and thanks again Shelise for another incredible interview.
My SA & purity culture story is eerily similar to Kristjana's. I also planned to wait until marriage until I was r*ped at 18 when I drank for the first time. I was so blacked out (very unintentionally) that I only remembered 30 seconds of it. Unfortunately, I was then r*ped repeatedly by a guy I dated briefly just a few months later. I grew up with Evangelical Christian purity culture, so I fortunately didn't have confess my "sins" to anyone. But I'm still trying to unravel the shame and self-blame after 13 years.
True story, I was born and raised, served a mission, the whole thing. I was a virgin until I was 31. Was just tired of the whole chastity thing. I decided that the next time I had the opportunity I was going to get laid. Married or not. My Parents introduced me to one of my mom's coworkers. She was a non-member and 13 years older than me. (I think they were hoping I would convert her.) We dated for three months. She told me on a phone call about our next date that she realized that I was waiting for marriage, but her body really wanted mine. So I went for it. It was awesome! I also started drinking a couple beers or wine, etc. About 6 months later the bishop asked me to come in for an interview. (I hadn't been attending church.) He asked me how things were going and I said, I had been drinking, having sex and smoking and I liked it and wasn't going to stop. Blatently, Pretty much exactly like that. He said well I'll have to have a bishops council meeting about this. I said ok, whatever. I never went back. About two months later I got a letter informing me I was excommunicated. I wish I had framed it! It was lost somewhere in the intervening years. In the 25 or so years since I have learned a great deal about the multitude of things wrong with the church. Joseph Smith was absolutely a false prophet. Likely deceived by the false vision of the FATHER and the Son. (Nimrod and Tammuz) Side note, if I had bothered to read the "old testament" I would have realized that "no man can see the Father and live." and would have likely gotten out sooner. I'm now married and have three awesome children. All teenagers.
Kris, as you shared your story I wanted to reach through the screen and give you a hug. It takes a lot to share your story and I am so grateful that you have, for yourself and for other survivors. You are an incredible person. Wishing both you and Shelise the absolute best, thank you. 💞💞 This channel is such a necessary space in this world.
Kris, you appear to be adjusting well to the real world, kudos! I am horrified by your SA experience and some of the truly ridiculous responses you received. I applaud you for trying really hard to excel even though your gut said no. Been there. Ocasionally still eff it up, but I'm learning! All the best to you and yours ❤ Thank you for sharing.
I’m not LDS but lived in a small town that was mostly LDS, one day my boss asked what ward did I belong to and I said Montgomery ward. Wow did I get a nasty look, he never spoke to me again.
I also grew up in a very Mormon town. Seminary was offered as one of the classes through our high school for an actual grade. The building was across the parking lot, but this was a public school. There was no separation between the different areas of life. I wasn't allowed to join the cheerleading or dance teams, and there were a lot of places I couldn't get hired, because I wasn't Mormon.
I’m sorry but if they really want girls to be “pure” then they need to teach boys to behave properly. Oh wait, just teach everyone what my exsquared taught our kids. No means no, maybe means no, and yes means no half the time.
My childhood neighbors were raised and still are LDS and I saw first hand the judgement of non lds is real. My brothers friend from the family was definitely like the poster boy for judging non Mormons like to the point of borderline harassment I remember him relentlessly teasing or picking at me cuz I wore tank tops or I wore a bikini or my shorts and skirts were above my knee it’s kind of insane the superiority complex that is engrained in the LDS youth. My friend from that family is honestly one of the sweetest most genuine humans I’ve ever met though so I’ve seen the full spectrum lol
You ladies are triggering me into some wonderful memories. 😂 Catholic school in the 50s and early 60s had so many of these same rules and shaming techniques. My high school boyfriend and I loved pushing those rules. We'd be out "parkin" on Friday and at confession Saturday so we could go to Communion on Sunday...like every week😅 Somehow we got away with it, and are stiil in touch 55 years later😊 gracias a la vida!
I am so grateful you shared your story. Your story is powerful and healing. The cycle of abuse has been broken with your courage to walk the hero’s journey. ❤
Kris, I am the same age you are and I,too, had my virginity stolen and remember all of that shame and guilt that I felt and the condemnation from spiritual leaders. I left Christianity going on 2.5 years ago and I still find myself doing those same things: “ is this something my mother did, is this me? Is this something the church taught?”. I am just so glad you found peace and joy in your life on the other side of that horrendous situation. Much love hon.
Shelise getting more comfortable with swearing is giving me life! I'm getting there too! 🙌🏻😂 Thank you for sharing your story Kris... I related so much with the thoughts and emotions I also experienced after getting disfellowshipped.
Miracle of Forgiveness "The loss of chastity is far-reaching. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. … It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle" I have a friend who was abused as a child and almost took his own life after reading this book. SO sad!! It's a book that gives so much more information on the mindset of the men who hold high positions within the LDS church. Thank you for sharing your story I can relate so much being born and raised LDS. SAD!!
I was once in a counseling session with a therapist (the counselor was affiliated with a church--not mine) and one of the first things he asked me is if I had premarital relations. I didn't tell him off, but that was the first and only time I went to him. I can only imagine the embarrassment Kris experienced with her Bishop.
I love, love, love this channel! I was not raised in any religion (thankfully! My mother was traumatized by a strict Wesleyan Methodist upbringing), so it's very eye-opening hearing all these experiences. I do have to say, though, the first part of this interview about living in a small town, I think that is a common small town issue of everyone knowing everyone's business, especially with a town that is and has been well established through generations. I grew up in such a town, in a family that settled here since the beginning (I'm in New England, so a vast majority of everything is OLD). My family in particular has been around since the 1600's. I have experienced the phenomenon of a family name holding judgement over a family. It's weird. And it can stem from some of the most insane presumptions. Like Farmer Smith and Farmer Jones were neighbors in 1659 and had a spat over whose oxen could plow the fields faster. Generations and centuries later and the Smith families and Jones families dislike one another "just because".
Hi! Yeah I’m totally agree that there is major crossover there and that all of that can exist without religion. In this case I think it was just amplified with the “holier than thou” stuff. Thanks for watching!❤️
So much unnecessary trauma, so sorry that happened to you. You were probably still in a state of shock from the violent r**e. My mother, "You drink, you're gonna get pregnant." Well, I drank--it was a catholic university in the mid-60's, but I never got preggers. You hadn't had proper medical attention much less counseling, then to have to walk into the lion's den for more trauma. So glad you are out of that sick org. You are both so intelligent and articulate and FUN!
I had to comment on this! I grew up SDA, I was severely traumatized and hurt as a young girl by my parents church. These stories resonated with me to the highest level. The shame cycle of a child at 9-14… just ruined me regarding church and even God for a long time. I now do not go to church, much to my parents dismay, but to me religion is ugly and hurts people. That is not God to me. Not the God I choose to believe in. Unbelievable amounts of absolute abuse went on… the list of rules were outstanding and unbelievable! So many victims… young victims. So sad. I tried so hard to fit in, but wasn’t born into the church and was judged so harshly. There were kids who couldn’t play with me. Kids who told me it was because I was too “secular” and more. I may not be keeping “the sabbath” like I was supposed to. I I was told I just do but fit in. I was 10 years old and just crying my eyes out because I was a good girl and all I wanted to do was fit in. The sabbath was strictly kept Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. We were not allowed to dance, to compete in sports because it was happening on the wrong day. Music with a beat caused people to move their hips in a sexual fashion and that was evil. If you lost your virginity before marriage you were worthless and on and on and on. I tried so hard to fit in and was slammed so hard that I did eventually rebel. Then the pastor was coming to my home and chastising me, threatening to kick me off the church membership records, and on and on. Years later many of these “God like” people were exposed for having affairs and child molestation and more. I chose to not make my children go to church and allow them to choose their own beliefs. If those people were Christ like I will remain sinful. Your channel is so important. I am learning so much. This has scarred me for life. There are so many stories I can tell you that sound so familiar to Mormonism.
honestly i was assaulted when i was 14 so i understand but my outcome was verry different. i started going back to my lds church and in my case they where very supportive and understanding. i recently was ordained a Elder and plan to serve a mission soon. i wish the best of luck to the both of you
I really enjoyed hearing your story Chris. I was a mormon for 40 years; I hung on because of that conditioning, and my insatiable desire to be faithful, never mind I too left it all, at last. I empathised with your trauma; and the awful route that you had to take to arrive to where you are now. You have come out of this so much stronger- as your final statement says. You have become your authentic self. If I was living where you are, I would hope to be a friend to you.
I'm seeing a therapist to process being raped. I recently realized he's mormon, and I am almost scared to get into it. I already feel so much guilt for what happened. I've been with him for over 3 years and was starting to feel more comfortable opening up. Now I just dont know. Thank you for this interview.
I LOVED this episode. I mean, I hated most of the content (so sorry all that happened to you, Kris ♥️), but it was SO relatable! Thanks for sharing ladies, the community here is so amazingly helpful 💛
Wow, I loved this interview so much. She is so happy and thriving now, and I can relate to her and you Shelise so much after leaving the Mormon faith. I literally tell my husband nearly everyday how grateful I am that I listened to my gut and left the church because it didn’t feel right, and now I’m the happiest and actually waaay more spiritual and thriving in my life than I ever was in the church. The Mormon church crushed my soul. The SHAME I felt growing up in it and while being a mother trying to balance that and my church callings and work felt like I was never enough, to the point that I just didn’t want to live anymore. This podcast has been sooo healing for me, I listen to them on a weekly basis. Thank you so much for starting this podcast and providing a platform for people to share their stories. I have some wild personal stories of missionaries serving missions in my ward taking advantage of me even as a young 12 year old and onward. If you’d ever like to chat about that, and the truth of what a lot of these missionaries are like, let me know! -there’s some serious shady stuff and I’m feelin a little feisty to expose them haha
Thank you so much for sharing that. Even though I left at a young age, the heavy shame is so relatable. I’m so happy that the show has been beneficial to you!❤️ feel free to email us your experiences or submit a Jotform in our about section 😊
Thank you, Chris, for sharing your story. I'm an SA survivor. Mine happened in my first marriage, but I stayed because I was raised Catholic. Thank goodness I finally woke up and left. I have a wonderful partner now, and I'm filled with gratitude for them.
Man, I love being Catholic. Confession is such a personal thing. You tell your sin to a priest that is behind a screen in a private room, he tells you your penitence ( which is also personal ex pray a rosary or five Our fathers, my last one was to pray for sinners) and best part he can’t tell it to anyone else. Many priest lost their freedom and lives via torture to keep this vow.
What an incredibly strong woman!! That story of her SA made me so completely livid for her! The entire thing!! From the a$$holes who violated her, to the roommate who showed no sympathy whatsoever, to the disgusting men who insisted she tell them every detail, reliving the trauma not just one, but TWICE!! What kind of twisted perverts feel they need to force a young woman to share her horrific, trauma? I don’t care if they truly believe they’re doing it to save her. It’s disgusting. On a positive note, I’m so happy for her that she seems to have come out the other side of this as such a content and balanced person. She deserves all the happiness life can offer her.
When a woman gets drunk the men around her need to protect her and give her a safe ride home WITH A GIRLFRIEND to attend her and put her to bed. Real men, even drunk, know not to abuse a woman.
If men wouldn’t assault women then there wouldn’t be anything to protect from 😢
As a man who has been very drunk a number of times, being drunk never makes you lose enough control to do that unless you're already a violent person. I can't imagine ever wanting to SA someone while drunk. People with violent tendencies need to stay fully sober, period.
@@raigenhuss7030Unfortunately sëxual assąult is genderless. Many boys/men have been assaulted by men and women too. But women are certainly more vulnerable than men and in Mormonism, people are not taught correctly about consent and blame tends to get shifted onto victims, especially women.
@@raigenhuss7030Anyone of any gender or sexuality can be a predator or a victim, we're still sure if its rarer that it happens to cishet men or they're just less able to reach out or even admit what is going on. Especially the stigma if the abuser is a woman. But until recently women had much less ability to get help and more likely to receive this level of extreme stigma and shame than men
@@ScottJB it doesn't have to be violent. Most of the time this stuff happens and there's no evidence of force because the woman is passed out. There's no fighting against him. So, no violence. It's still a violation.
Her mom’s response makes me so angry. She gave her daughter the silent treatment for three days after she told her about horrific abuse she endured? 😢😡
And this has happened so many times to Mormon girls/women. This NEVER happens to people in secular families. Mormonism is so gross.
@@ScottJB never happens in secular families? got proof?
@@chlyri Yes, the proof is that it's not logically possible. Have you ever heard of a secular/nonreligious family thinking a r@pe is a sëxual sin on the part of the victim? Is that even possible if they are nonreligious? Being secular in the sense of not believing in religion (which is what most people will interpret what I said as meaning) and believing in sexual sin are mutually exclusive. How can you believe in sin and also not believe in religion or a god? Explain.
@ScottJB You're surely joking. It doesn't matter what background you have, sexual assault happens in every setting among any kind of belief or unbelief. Sin exists if you believe in it or not. Victim shaming happens in every possible arena. It's vile and destructive. It's one huge mess of life we live in this world. What makes life live-able is God's love and forgiveness and kind and compassionate people.
@@laurenshannon2703 that's a straw man of what I said so you either didn't understand or are misrepresenting. I didn't say SA can't happen in all contexts. It does. What I said does NOT happen in all contexts is an obsession with the concept of "sexúal purity" and sexuâl sin, esp. when misapplied to victims. Those cancerous ideas create situations that don't exist in secular frameworks, like the idea that a r@pe victim has engaged in sexuâl sin and lost their "purity" by being rãped. This podcast explains how the "licked muffin" or "used goods" philosophy, among others, is so dangerous. Particularly for SA victims.
I confided in a friend that my step dad was abusing me. She told me that she was abused when she was a baby but she doesn’t complain about it, because she is a positive person and I am a negative person. She has two kids now, I am concerned for them. I hate Mormon toxic positivity
💗💙
Abuse, especially SA, is NEVER okay. Not towards a baby, not towards a child and not towards an adult. That's just bs abusers tell everyone to keep victims silent.
WAAT did she say😱😡?? I have heard this kind of behavior from women before, but the level of outrageous shock i feel everytime anew is absolutely crazy. That makes me furious and i DONT UNDERSTAND!!! I'm going to use the word Rape. I hate when the word is mildened down to SA, Abuse, Molestation etc, Rape is real, Rape is ugly and it should be screamed out loud because sadly it is a huge thing in our society and nothing that should be hushed. (Sorry for ranting😬) Rape kills you from the inside and you are never the same. My life took a very dark path because of it sadly. That this despicable person told you you are negative and made you feel that way is just absolutely unforgivable! Especially when you were so very brave to even tell her. Its like a whole new betrayal. People need to wake up and women need to stick together. This behavior cannot be passed on to our children anymore. That damn cycle needs to stop!
Take care and i hope you can somehow still live your best life💪💜
You are NOT negative! I was also called negative. Mormon toxic positivity is a REAL thing!
💞💐🕊🕯
Ugh! Babe, I hate that for u! & I hate that she made u feel bad! I can never understand how anybody can view a child or baby as anything sexual! It breaks my heart! Glad that you're in a position to know she's wrong & I hope you never believed it back then! 💖💕💖
I wrote a longer comment and it disappeared so I am just going to say thank you both so much. This was perfect for me. I realized that I have felt that the price I paid for rejecting Mormonism was to live the rest of my life as a snuffed out candle. The light glowing here this morning woke me up to the realization that I still can shine. Thank you, thank you so very much. 🙏💜🙏💜🙏
You can absolutely shine!! You’re not alone ❤️
@@CultstoConsciousness , thank you so much! You helped me make a major shift this morning. One more layer of the onion peeled back-a big one! 🥰
If you’re looking for a new place to go for your own fdith then you should consider the Baptist Church. 😊if not then the offer will always be there
Of course you can still shine bright. In fact, I say post-religiousity people can shine brighter because they can actually learn more and truly get to know themselves and what they think-not what they've been told to think! So let your light shine!
Are Baptists anti-lgbtplus? Or is it a church-by-church basis and pastor/preacher by pastor/preacher basis?@@michelleeastridge3065
I know that it's a Mormon-ism holdover, but watching Kris tell her horrific story through this pained smile, only breaking every so often when she couldn't hold the tears back, and then putting the smile back on to continue... it made her story just so much more tragic because she *still* has that sense of needing to put on a happy face and pretend to be okay even when she isn't. The tears welling up as she kept smiling and tried to keep an upbeat tone just made me want to reach through the screen and give her a hug. Kris, if you're reading this, please know that you do not need to put on an act. You are allowed to drop the smile, frown, lower your voice, furrow your brow, etc. Let it out. No one in this space is going to judge you for it. You are free.
Thanks for the support! Believe me, I've frowned, cried, yelled, screamed, furrowed my brows over this story many a time. :) If I let myself cry the entire time ya'll wouldn't have been able to understand what I was saying - there's a time to hold it together! 😉🩷
You’re awesome! So sorry what you went through. And so glad you’re Flourishing 🤗❤️
I've noticed that continual smile and agreeableness. It is seemingly unescapable
The fact that they made a r*pe victim have basically go to a public COURT to get punished for something that was done to her is so wild and heinous and absolutely abhorrent. I am so glad y'all got out. They don't deserve your light and spirit
That's exactly right!
My ex husband molested my daughter and i believed her!!! How could a mother not believe her own daughter... a child!!!
Soooo heartbreaking
My mom didn't believe me. Ruined our relationship.
Same here
You are to be commended for overcoming the apparently universal impulse to deny this evil could possibly happen.
Sometimes ppl say "never me" and that they dont understand how other ppl did this or that .
at 17 I went to a dr with my mom .he was 80 and working from home.During the examination he was inappropriate .I reacted mildly bcoz I was comfused as I was taught: "we trust the Dr "😮
When I got out I tried to convince my mom to at least scare him pretending we ll a lawyer but she didn't want to . (So I returned a week later slaped him and told his wife who was 20yrs younger)
Fast forward 20 yrs and I ask my mom "why"
she said she didn't believe me because the Dr s wife ,whom she had seen for 5min.told her that her husband isn't like that!
My mother doesn’t believe me and said if it did happen, it was my fault. He wouldn't confess, and they're still married.
My son’s girlfriend was s/a by a stepdad in high school,no one in her family would believe her or help her, she finally told, and he never went to jail, and her mom is mad at her from telling. Abuse and betrayal ! She now has seizures, ( trauma), and unable to live a normal life.
This breaks my heart 😢 I'm so sorry for your sons girlfriend ❤
Kris, if you’re reading this, I hope you know how lovely of a presence you are. Your story made me cry multiple times. Thank you for breaking the silence. I was close to being sucked into Mormonism in high school, stories like this make me so glad I wasn’t.
🩷🩷🩷 Thank you for listening & for the support!! x
You're amazing. I related to this whole video SO MUCH. @@kristjanahillberg5319
I’ve never been Mormon but the missionaries used their Word of Wisdom to tell me that God isn’t answering my prayers because I drink coffee. So I’m not worthy for my prayers to be answered because of Folgers.
Thank you for making me laugh! 😂.
Ugh! Huge eyeroll to that notion. What’s worse is they have their kid missionaries teach this BS to grown ass adults. This is the smallest example of the thick layer of shame on almost EVERYTHING you do.
Plot twist...God likes hazelnut coffee scented prayers in the morning, not folgers.
@@CultstoConsciousness Indeed. For reference they are around 19. I’m 65. We started the conversation talking about why God seems to not answer very many prayers. That’s when they said you have to be “worthy” to get answers from God. I was respectful to them but it was a frustrating conversation especially considering our age difference. They were 100% sure of themselves, even a bit cocky.
After I left the church, I learned how to roast coffee as part of my healing process 😄
Poor girl, my cousin was SA-ed by her boyfriend and when she told her mom she didn't believe her, I can't imagine how scary that would be
Mormonism is one hell of a drug
Please don’t write “poor girl”. She’s not a poor girl.
I was SA'd by a boyfriend shortly after I turned 16. I told my Mom that if he called or came by I'm not available & hang up or don't even answer the door. She said I needed to tell her why "if I expected her to be mean to him". I told her "he tried to r*pe me" she laughed & said I was inexperienced, he was just being a boyfriend. She continued to give me the phone when he called & continued to let him in the house to wait for me when I wasn't home...until I was 20!
@@jeannerountree952why would you say that?
@@michellepratico Sorry your mom was one of those type of women.
I confided in my mom in my 30’s that I was SA-ed a number of times due to lack of communication as to what consent actually is…first time I was 18 and it happened with one of my best friends involved, I used to tout that story as my first threesome until I recounted it to a friend who informed me that it wasn’t consensual on my part as I had been trying to sleep and had said no a number of times before my friend started to undress me. I had known the encounter had made me feel bad, but didn’t know why…but all my mom did when I told her was blame me for drinking and putting myself in that situation. My mom is a survivor of SA, something she talks about a lot and it was quite jarring to hear her victim blame. I really wish our mothers would stop perpetuating rape culture.
I'm so sorry to hear that you experienced this :( Sending you so much love. 🩷
19:30 this has my heart racing from anger. I can’t believe some women tried to accuse a child of stealing because she had nice pants on. She ever think maybe the mom wanted her kid to have nice clothing and saved up for them? I know she didn’t and they were gotten for her by someone else but still. Just because someone is poor doesn’t mean they can’t save up and provide for their children. That woman is a sadist and wanted to humiliate her for self gratification. What a sick and disturbed person
I know many poor families who save to buy nicer clothes and shoes for their kids simply because they tend not to look worn out as quickly as less expensive options; if the kid outgrows it and it still looks good, that thing can be passed down to a sibling or cousin!
God this is bringing me back to Catholicism experiences, purity culture shit is too real, I as a girl was told on multiple occasions “all women must keep their knees together while sitting, hands in your lap to not distract men” which is its own full issue I have
They really think dudes have X-ray vision. It’s almost comical how little credit they give themselves when it comes to self control. How are they gonna say women are inferior and men need to be in charge but say they can’t go about their day without popping a boner if they see a bare shoulder or a fully clothed woman who isn’t actively covering her crotch?! **eyeroll**
@@CultstoConsciousnesswithout X-ray vision, guys find fully clothed women attractive. Purity culture is just an excuse to blame the woman when they can’t control themselves.
Wow, at 80, converted to Catholicism at 9, because I saw children dressed for Ist Communion and was impressed, I have never experienced any of this irrationality in the RC Church.
Maybe it's because I live in Boston where everyone (more or less) is smart, rational & quick to say "Whoa, I ain't going for that!" I'm going 'the hell u say!'
'Course I was told to keep my knees together, but by my AME family members. I was not oppressed by cultish nonsense. I was FREE as a child to do whatever.
Me, too, happy ex-cath!
I am a Catholic, our purity culture goes for both men and women. Men keep it in the pants, girls keep the legs close. It’s how we see sex, which is powerful, so it must be respected. That boob touching, just go to confession, there is a screen between you and the priest. The Priest would not have you miss church nor the holy communion. He probably have you go to extra church (most likely pray a rosary or what not) because God is for sinners who wish to repent. So if you deep into sin the only solution is finding what is causing the sin and getting help through prayer and other means. If you get drunk and get sa-ed. Your only sin is getting drunk. Drinking is fine but overindulgence is what makes it a sin, but SA-ed is not the sin so you don’t have to apologize for that and must be reported so others won’t fall victim to the same fate.
I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and I was not SA’d thankfully - quite a few of my friends were - but I did have to confess in detail about losing my virginity. I was 17 and had to confess in front of 3 elders, my mom and dad. It’s was traumatizing.
So sorry you had to go through this. Sending virtual love. 🩷
That's still sexual abuse, it's not physical sexual abuse, but you were still abused sexually through mental and emotional abuse and humiliation. Just because no one physically touched you doesn't mean it didn't have a similar impact on you. You were humiliated publicly, your personal autonomy was taken from you, you were forced to cross boundaries with your parents over topics they had no right to even be involved in. What happened to you WAS abuse and it WAS NOT your fault.
In this context I agree, she shouldn’t have had to talk about it with the elders and her parents in a “confession” situation, but as a minor still living at home, her parents would have had the right to speak with her about safe sex, emotions and possibilities that come along with losing your virginity in a productive way. In a majority of these situations though, I highly doubt a productive non judgmental conversation would be possible.
@vagirl19 making someone recount the details of losing their virginity to their parents and 3 random other adults so they can shame you is not a safe sex talk, it's humiliation, it's abuse, it's religious exploitation.... but it's definitely not a safe sex talk
There is something so so deeply disturbing about telling these random older men of authority about what you're doing or what happens to you as a teenager. It feels gross, creepy, and can lead to abuse. This incredibly brave woman experienced so many people failing her in one of the worst experiences a person can have. These insitutions that hold so much power over others are so damaging because their rules that do not evolve and create a lack of empathy and blame.
It’s absolutely disgusting that “bishops” are random men from the community. It’s an insanely problematic power structure intentionally built to allow the men of the community to violate the women and control them via shame. The boys are subject to the same thing, but how much do you want to bet there’s a lot more “we understand boys have needs” going on when it comes to their confessions? Whereas, the girls are judged, shamed, and their private intimate lives shared among the other men. So gross. I don’t even like the concept of confessing to priests who are behind a screen in private and don’t tell anyone else about it. Why do I need to discuss my sins to another human being for judgement, if they’re not God? No, sir.
You tell these older men your entire life. It's not just in your youth. It's predatory and wrong.
That is the common element of so many of these cults. The so- called spiritual rituals actually encourage an obsession with the sexuality of children. Like, what's up with naked baptism?
I want to thank the brave people that come on these shows. I too grew up in the mainstream l d s church And have quite the story to tell, including being kidnapped twice by a noncastodial parent. And my mom just knowing, her prayers were answered when I was eventually brought back instead of calling the police. Well, I won't go in to all of the traumas of growing up in a very Strict and prepper home. My story I've been told is one for the books.
I see you and I hear you, Thank you for sharing your stories
I hope you get an opportunity to share your story. 😘 I'm always fascinated by these cult-y stories.
You need to be on here
💙💙💙
I'd be interested in hearing your story
I was punished by my parents for getting SA’d as a teenager. They said I put myself in the situation. I believed them and blamed myself.
Decades later, I was preyed upon, threatened and stalked by another predator. My parents reminded me how I put myself in those situations. My parents, not the predators, destroyed my hope and trust forever.
I don't get this mindset of "You put yourself into that situation." It's so vile.
It was your parents job to protect you. They failed.
It's so weird to tell a grown man about inappropriate behavior... Seriously. (I remember in my last year of primary, the bishop telling us that oral sex is wrong. Only to find out later, he was sexually abusing his own kids
So awful :(
A bishop I told about my SA responded the exact same and now I’m thinking that this may be a matter of policy-that any woman who is sexually assaulted must have a disciplinary council! Meanwhile, my husband was messing around with other women-he didn’t need a disciplinary council, but because I was SA’d, “we might need to hold a disciplinary council for you-even though legally you are not responsible for being r@&ed,” he told me, “in the eyes of God, you ARE responsible for what happened to you.”
What?!!! Makes me sick to think he said that to you. I’m so sorry❤️
That’s horrendous.!!!! Sorry that you went thru that. No it’s NOT your fault in any way whatsoever that someone attacked you! They are evil and need to be in prison so other women are protected from them. It IS. Asian however turning a blind eye on their fellow churchgoers who was cheating against his wife! Essentially giving a stamp of approval. I’m a Baptist and we certainly don’t have a bishop but the ladies would have supported you thru the pain. I hope you can fina great place to worship like Baptist, Church Of God, Church Of Christ, Methodist or Presbetyrian. Blessing to you.
Heather, I'm so sorry that was your experience. Sending you all of the love 🩷
@@VelveteenRabbit77 It's a bit of a low kind of act to be using a site such as this to try to be recruiting vulnerable people into another religion while they are still trying to overcome the problems of their past one.
@@tanyabrown9839 If no one speaks out about cults then people won’t know that there are good ole churches to go to. Christian churches that love and support their people. Churches that don’t have “ councils” or “ bosses” or hierarchies. Especially polygamist cults where women are usually treated badly. If “ The Lost Boys” that were banned and thrown away fro warren Jeff’s cult don’t hear of good churches how will they know??? My comment comes from a place of compassion and a heavy heart for what she has been thru my gosh! Your recruitment comment not from a place of kindness.
I grew up in this little town. So glad you're sharing your story, and it makes my heart so glad to see you break out of the toxic garbage and heal!
I think I just moved to this town. I’ve been here in JC for 10 days. I left the cult in May but I need to live with my brother and his wife, she has been here since the 70s. I can’t be sure if it’s the same town but I bet it’s in the general area.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
Brave brave brave individuals. Break the silence break the cycle. I have such gratitude for these people. It only gets better from here.
This was a tough one...the Church leaders and her mom failed her. Gosh I hate the grip the church has on our common sense. The Bishop isn't qualified to deal with that situation, and treating a SA victim as a sinner is morally wrong and sick. She needed love and comfort, not guilt and shame. I am so glad and I am deconstructing. It is tough, but easier because I was in active since I was in college, so for around 15 years. The Church could be great, and would be if it was the 'true church,' but all of the stories out there like this, along with the stain history proves it isn't. I am so sorry for your experience, Kris! No one should have to go through that.
Thank you for the support 🩷
As a male who left the Mormon church much earlier in my development (16-17) I am horrified and inspired by the stories of all these females who've endured so much at the hands of religious persecution. As a 54 yr old I've journeyed through being religious, to being non-religious but "spiritual", to now being a full on agnostic atheist. My advice to anyone still on their journey is to always seek the truest understanding they can of the world, and try to strive to live your life authentically. For me, I try to seek that through the best vehicle of understanding humans have developed, science. It seems like Kris is still on a path of trying to live an authentic life now, and I wholeheartedly support her in that.
Getting punished for skipping seminary with missing school games sounds like a lack of separation of church and state and should not have happened. Victim shaming is the worst. I was livid throughout most of this video.
Oh, there's no separation of church and state here in Utah. They don't even try to hide that fact.
If that building is on government land, this is a lawsuit.
Yes - we shared a lot of real, raw shit in this one!! Thanks for listening & supporting. 🩷
Both of you are survivors! My heart is so full of mercy for the very hard things you both endured. ❤❤ Thank you, Shelise. You are helping others not to feel alone, and you have established a whole support network for people who really need it. ❤️
I blame the mom. She should never sent her daughter to that bishop. It is none of his business. The people who come on this programme are so strong. They go through things no one should have to go through.
🩷 thanks for the support Melissa. Ya know, we all go through so many things & experience things so differently. The way my mom handled this situation at the time was where she was at in her own healing journey. It's not an excuse, just acknowledging that we all have dealt with things before in a way that probably wasn't the best. Blaming her wouldn't help me feel better or make the situation go away.
I keep listening to all these stories and what really hits me hard is that I was not raised in a cult, or a strict religion and yet all of these things were happening in my life because my mother had been raised Catholic and 'she' perpetrated these abuses on her children. She wouldn't talk about s3x, she wouldn't talk about menstruation, she wouldn't talk about our bodies or what was happening to us as we matured, she was so crazy strict about us not drinking and doing drugs (yet all the adults were allowed to drink). All she ever said about sex was 'good girls don't', 'you save it until you get married'. Everything was our fault and we could never do anything right no matter what we did. When my first boyfriend sexually assaulted me I was too afraid to talk to her because she always bad mouthed 'loose' women and said 'well, if they didn't dress that way or drink', so I knew she would blame me for the assault. It took me over 30 years to understand I had been sexually assaulted and to understand that my mother was also abusive.
I am not LDS, but I grew up in small SE Idaho town. I was so immersed in the community that this painfully resonates with me even being non-mormon. I'm so thankful for my strong parents!
Coming from a non-emotional family and not being taught what consent is, it’s cruel. Thank You to both of you for telling this story. Even though I felt extremely triggered I feel somehow it is helpful. The whole sexual human aspect of being a human is such a traumatic shity experience in the Church.
This story really resonates with me.This is the first I’m saying anything about this on the internet.
I was raised Southern Baptist. I lost my virginity at 18 and we went to our parents about it, we both prayed and felt God had forgiven us. (Now purity culture exists. But growing up we were able to be open about it with our parents, but really what teenager is going to go to their parents about that kind of thing.) Fast forward a couple years I am now about 19-20. It somehow gets brought up to our new pastor. The pastor then comes to my home ( I was living with my parents) for lunch between church on a Sunday between church. My Mom is smoker but she doesn’t do it in the house. So the new pastor and my Dad wait until my Mom goes outside to smoke. The pastor then asks me if I’d be willing go before the church and ask them to forgive me for fornicating. I told him I’d pray about it and get back to him.
There is more to the story.
I now have a beautiful relationship with God and am currently looking for a home church. It’s just hard for me sometimes because I guess I just have this fear of this now. I just love how God loves all of us and can be for each of his children what that specific person needs, because everyone is different and we all have different stories so what we all need is different. It’s a very personal relationship that is just beautiful how he can bring peace and comfort. I still feel the peace and comfort of the night I got saved in 2019 after all that happened with the pastor.
Thank you for sharing. Wishing you the best ❤️
I was too!! I was kicked out of Christian college b/c I was assaulted but it was my fault because I suggested we hang out sometime, initially. Nothing happened to him at all. He graduated
😳 so wrong!
I felt exactly the same way! It happened when in Christina college in PHOENIX TOO!! And instead of just violated , I felt like a failure and ashamed. Like, Welp, now I’m a crushed flower that could never be beautiful again, only broken. I was so scared of the shame if ppl found out, even though I tried to fight him off!! I went to urgent care the next day to get plan b (rx only in 2005) and cried to the little old white haired dr that it hurt too bad to do a pelvic exam, just just couldn’t get pregnant, I just could handle telling my parents that kind of news! Got grilled in a panel review ti decide if I should be expelled from school once someone found out from him bragging and it got back to the administration. They offered completely unreasonable rules and curfew and letter to student body apologizing for putting HIM in that situation he couldn’t stop himself in, or expulsion. Meanwhile my mom finds out and literally passes out in the floor and hysteria for weeks. So I went fully head on into hedonism! I was raped and lost everything and knew nothing about anything except making out, not even my own vagina very much! So bring on the Drugs, sex, alcohol, u name it, I’ve prob done it. (Def not the one to play “never have I ever” with lol) fast fwd to now, my child I had a few years later, out of wedlock, is going to be 13 on Sunday and not only is she loved and adored by mg family and any one who has the privilege of meeting her sassy, kind little self. She saved me, she gives me strength I need to be a single mom and she already is the fiercest, discerning, critically mind woman that knows exactly who she is and how she deserves to be treated and treat others as human beings. I could not be prouder and neither could her adoring Grandparents and aunts and uncles who actually never skipped a beat and welcomed her and my niece with open arms more than enough to make up for not having dads in their lives. Grandpa is a good kind, patient example of literally the best dad u could ask for. If I had to go back, I would do it all again if I knew it would end up where we are today! Healing took 20 yrs but light on the other side
so sorry that happened to you! That's awful.
Making a young woman 'confess' to sexual assault is institutionalized victim blaming. That you were made to talk about your trauma in front of community members who are not trained therapists, are not bound by medical ethics, and are listening in order to decide on your 'punishment' is abuse.
Thank you for continuing to highlight these stories. Thank you to your guests for being so vulnerable. So many things that were discussed here are so relatable to so many religions. I grew up in the Lutheran Church. This conversation helps me continue to work out of the guilt, shame and manipulation in religious messaging.
❤️❤️❤️
Always excited for new C2C episodes!
🥳
Kristjana, thank you for sharing your story!! Kris knows this, but I am from the same little town and grew up in the same time period and graduated a few years after she did. I experienced similar things, but I chose the path of lying to my church leaders and parents to save my image and protect me from possible church discipline. I too went back to the church after leaving in college and got sealed, but 6 years later we left for good. I'm so thankful for the one woman (I know who it is) that offered you the only assistance you had during a time where you endured a horrible trauma and were treated so badly by everyone else. Lets all buy Buckle jeans for and protect those girls who dont have anyone to go to when they need help ❤
Love you my sweet Sarah! Thank heavens for KH who helped & bought me my first buckle jeans. 🩷 xx SO happy to hear you've found peace & can hardly wait to catch up in person someday. You 2 have always been a couple of my favorite humans.
Your story is heartbreaking in so many ways. As a mother, I could never have had that cold reaction to one of my daughters. These Bishops should not be in the positions they are in. It makes me wonder how many are perverts. Young girls should have a female to disclose these intimate details to. I'm just happy Kris has survived and is now happy and healthy!
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I’m only half way through. Thank you both so much for being open about your experiences.
. I went to a church conference with my “fiancé” at the time. He ended up putting drugs into my drink, and he SAed me. I don’t remember most of it. I had gone to my bishop, my bishop placed the blame fully on me. I didn’t go back for 7 years. When I finally did go back. I met with the bishop and confessed to illegal things I had done to survive, and I was told to wait 5 years for statues of limitations to come back and repent. Now I feel as if I’ve learned and lived too much to go back.
Go to a non Denominational church and let people love on you there. They won't string you out to dry. Keep worshipping and learning and serving with another group of believers.
I'm so sorry you experienced that, and I hope you will speak to someone with experience about your next steps and not take advice from RUclips comments! (I know, the irony.) I believe the truth is within you, and you will know the right steps to take when you're ready.
WHY WHY WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE, NO ONE SAYS THE BOYS NEED TO KNOW WHAT NO MEANS.
because it's a patriarchy where men don't get held accountable.
A standing applause for you and for you defining your own life and happiness, Kris. I grew up in diverse religious family including Mormons. My father and mother were protestant and roman catholic and because of the respective tension there I was told I was "not a child of god" by a priest at an age where, while still young, I understood and fully. I felt I was a flawed, broken, unworthy. As time wore on I learned and questioned deeply which led me to calling myself agnostic for a long time, to the literal horror of my extended family. The things I was told, the names i was called, the hell and horror I was promised... You can imagine what I experienced years later when I realized I was an atheist. I'll spare the details in this forum for the sake of brevity and politeness. Moving on, I feel your attitude towards life and growth is a treasure, a wealth of strength, perspective and positivity despite the trials and tribulations of fundamentalism. Thank you for sharing your story, Kris.
This brakes my heart. I hope she’s able to heal and she continues to tell her story.
My heart goes out to her. Trauma, especially SA trauma and religious trauma, let alone combined, is really hard to overcome. I wish more parents and authorities in the church would stop victim blaming. I still have trust issues with my parents even though it's been nearly 12 years. We still talk, but I never talk about my personal life with them.
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Your story & voice have immense power. By putting your experiences & struggles out in the light, you make it impossible for shame to survive. Shame only lives in the dark.
You’re so courageous & strong to be where you are today. You deserved so much better growing up & I hope you’re now creating the life you deserve & choose for yourself.
Thank you for your willingness to be so vulnerable & share your story. 🫶
I would like to thank so much for this Chanel ❤ I grow up in a very restricted environment as evangelical here in Brazil. There are so many things in common. The shame, guilt, crazy rules, oppression, fear. I’ve been completely out for 5 years. It’s life changing to be able to live in peace. These conversations helps me feel that I’m not alone ❤
Kris, I have a 20 year old daughter and the thought of something so horrific happening to her, and her not feeling comfortable telling me immediately is heartbreaking. You’re a beautiful person to afford your mother the grace of understanding that she’s a nuanced, complex person herself, but what happened to you is indisputably wrong. Period. The way she handled it was wrong. You deserved to have a mother wrap her arms around you to comfort & reassure you. What happened to you is NOT your fault. ❤ Having to tell men in your community what happened so they could judge you is disgusting. I want to give you a huge hug!
❤
Thank you for saying this. A lonely young woman deep inside of me needed to hear this too ♥️
@@Rain_Reign 🫶🏼💜
I feel that hug!!! x🩷
She touches on something I'd heard from others in similar situations (not always cults!) When one is criticized and punished harshly for *everything,* one rationalizes she may as well do as wants.
"If you're not happy, you're doing something wrong." The main message my whole life growing up in the mormon church. I now know I have hEDS. There is nothing good about growing up with that type of messaging. I was, and still am in my TBM family's mind, just a bad person because I didnt go along and live "righteously." You're not alone. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this f*cked up messaging too. Thank you for your story.
Hmm...sounds just like Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt. Hope they are happy - in jail.
Once again, PHENOMENAL & MOVING VIDEO!!! I’m so in awe of y’all’s strength & power!! Thank you!!
What a fabulous, vibrant guest! Thank you for sharing your story. I bet ALOT of people will take inspiration from your experience.
That's why I share. Always hope someone finds hope & validation. Thank you so much for listening 💙
This was great! Reminds me of leaving the Mennonite cult. You guys are awesome. . .and glad you brought in the spirituality and chakras, because the crown is really where you can see the evidence of spirituality.
After processing complex trauma, through traditional therapeutic realms, stepping into energy, work to align, chakras and open more than just your mind, is truly the cherry on top of the hard work you’ve put in. Like you’ve said, you can’t discount it until you’ve experienced it when it comes to trying other modalities in life. My personal energy work happened when it needed to happen and it revolutionized my mind, body and soul. I absolutely can feel that same energy from you. It’s hard to rationalize having had to experience the level of trauma to get to this euphoric peace of mind, but isn’t it fucking amazing?
It is!!!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 It's truly fuçkîng amazing!!!!!
There is such a big picture when it comes to what is true. Working with energy/chakras/kundalini etc etc... had me able to confirm my belief in past lives as I now remember parts of many of my previous ones (something which ended up happening spontaneously, I don't believe that it's good to try to push for such knowledge as one then could end up with false memories but with just working oneself such memories can come in). With that remembering of myself from times past comes the knowing that I have had lives in many different religions... taking me beyond the need to be in a religion. There are so many interesting paths we follow in our lifetimes.
Literally no different to Emma Smith's ex-husband claiming Jeebus told him he just had to marry multiple women and men have the power to heal people by magicK spirit
Very brave of you to share your story. I think many people will listen to your story and it will help them to heal. The judgment and coldness given to you from everyone who was supposed to love and care for you is inexcusable. I am so glad you were able to step back and see this judgment and condemnation for what it was: ABUSE. A bunch of men sitting in judgment of a young girl who has been assaulted is shocking and infuriating. The fact that no one brought in a licensed therapist is mind blowing. Leaving was a blessing. Live your best life❤❤!!
this woman is so incredibly incredible and brave. so open and intelligent. i don’t know how anybody can live through that and come out thriving and happy. i couldn’t even get through hearing about her story without crying. it’s simply amazing the work she put in to be where she is now.
No joke. The last LDS woman I dated she confessed to me that her first sexual experience was forced, she confessed to her bishop and she lost her temple recommend. Because she “put herself in that position “
So awful!! Thanks for sharing.
Exact words my parents used too
So I was told the same thing, that because I was assaulted, that in God’s eyes I was responsible for what happened to me, and that I should have a disciplinary council held for me. I’m wondering how many other women were told the same thing? Is this more a matter of policy and normal practice in the church, or are Kris and myself just outlier cases? Really interested to hear if other women have been disciplined or threatened with church discipline for having been assaulted?
It’s not just Mormans. This happens all the time in Baptist, conservative Methodist, Pentecostal, Amish, Mennonite, Catholic, the list is endless.
wow what an amazingly beautiful woman inside and out ... her story really touched me because she went through that whole struggle alone ... it totally rang bells for me too ... especially when she said there is so much more spirituality out there in the world ... well done Kris you totally followed your own heart and mind and thats not easy when it means hurting your family ... or at least hurting your families conditioned belief system ... wow ... you go girl always follow your heart ... I was the only one that hated the temple ceremony but was told it was my fault I need to pray more fast more ... it took ages to see no ... my gut feelings were right for me .x
🩷 thank you so much for your comments & support! It means the world to me.
First, as one survivor to another, you are doing amazing. From your timeline, it sounds like we were suffering around the same time. I'm beyone proud to see you on this side of it all and thriving. 💖
And second, one saying that changed me fundamentally is that the first thing that pops in your mind is from the voices that raised you, but the second thing you think is who you are. I used to feel so bad about myself because I would think such hateful, judgemental things when I knew I had changed. But they were always followed up with corrections. "No, that wasn't kind" or "that was so inappropriate". As time goes on, the first voice isnt as loud as it was once. It gets easier, and change is possible, but don't beat yourself up if part of who you used to be lives with you still. You wouldn't be who you are now without their help. You did the best you could with what you had, and look at how much you've grown! Amazing, phenomenal episode. Such resilience in these stories, it is truly inspiring. ❤
These kinds of stories are just heartbreaking.
Maybe one day these stories will make a difference for future women.
What you have been through is appalling and extemely disturbing that some children are being shamed for things that they had no control over,. Thank you for bringing light on this subject and will encourage others to finally believe that they are not at fault.
I'm listening to your story right now. The audacity of those men to judge you. The utter gall of those so called religious people. You NEVER did anything wrong. This comes down to mental abuse after being.... urgh I have no words. Let's just say that the people from the community that was your home, who dared to think even one iota worse about you, are just as bad as the men/boys who took advantage of you in the first place.
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This was a great interview I loved her “happiness looks different on everyone” response. ❤❤
This is exactly why I never disclosed my SA while I was a teen living with my parents and actively attending. You’re taught in the church to fight for your life and it’s better to die fighting to save your “virtue”, and if you don’t it’s your fault. Therefore I fugured it was my fault and would be repremanded by a bunch of old white guys who had no business in my business. At the time I had no idea how common it was within the church but I’m super glad i stuck with my gut and kept my secret until I was ready to start deconstructing. And btw this account has been *so* helpful while deconstructing so thank you thank you thank you
Kris, I am so proud of you for finding your way out and to the peace you share, and I'm so sorry you endured so much to get there.
These stories continue to increase my gratitude for my family's lack of commitment (but we did keep the guilt). Keep up the phenomenal work Shelice (and Jonathan).
TYSM for the support 🩷 it means so much to me.
Kris, such a powerful story told so eloquently with such truth. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us with so much vulnerability and grace. I know there are young people who will find such courage in your story and the hope of envisioning a joyful future. I loved how you talked about what spirituality looks like to you. If we do not believe it for ourselves, how can we practice it? I have experienced such a revulsion to all things related to my former beliefs. I have only now years later been able to maintain poise and the ability to speak my truth to it with love and grace as you did. I'm smiling at you!! Thank you - and thanks again Shelise for another incredible interview.
Thank you for listening & taking the time to send this message. 🩷
My SA & purity culture story is eerily similar to Kristjana's. I also planned to wait until marriage until I was r*ped at 18 when I drank for the first time. I was so blacked out (very unintentionally) that I only remembered 30 seconds of it. Unfortunately, I was then r*ped repeatedly by a guy I dated briefly just a few months later. I grew up with Evangelical Christian purity culture, so I fortunately didn't have confess my "sins" to anyone. But I'm still trying to unravel the shame and self-blame after 13 years.
You are worth the healing. No one has a right to your body but you. ❤️
It was not your fault, it doesn’t define you, you are not alone, and you deserve love.
@@hittsrus5185Thank you so much for your kind comment!
@@auntkaren3803Thank you for the validation & support!
This was a really great interview! I’m so glad Kris has found her truth and is living her best life.
Me too 😉🩷
True story, I was born and raised, served a mission, the whole thing. I was a virgin until I was 31. Was just tired of the whole chastity thing. I decided that the next time I had the opportunity I was going to get laid. Married or not.
My Parents introduced me to one of my mom's coworkers. She was a non-member and 13 years older than me. (I think they were hoping I would convert her.) We dated for three months. She told me on a phone call about our next date that she realized that I was waiting for marriage, but her body really wanted mine. So I went for it. It was awesome! I also started drinking a couple beers or wine, etc. About 6 months later the bishop asked me to come in for an interview. (I hadn't been attending church.) He asked me how things were going and I said, I had been drinking, having sex and smoking and I liked it and wasn't going to stop. Blatently, Pretty much exactly like that.
He said well I'll have to have a bishops council meeting about this. I said ok, whatever. I never went back. About two months later I got a letter informing me I was excommunicated. I wish I had framed it! It was lost somewhere in the intervening years.
In the 25 or so years since I have learned a great deal about the multitude of things wrong with the church. Joseph Smith was absolutely a false prophet. Likely deceived by the false vision of the FATHER and the Son. (Nimrod and Tammuz) Side note, if I had bothered to read the "old testament" I would have realized that "no man can see the Father and live." and would have likely gotten out sooner.
I'm now married and have three awesome children. All teenagers.
Thanks for sharing! Glad you went with your gut and didn’t let them get you down
Love this David! Glad you found happiness on your conditions - so empowering. :)
I love the fact that you found a cougar to sow some wild oats with!
Kris, as you shared your story I wanted to reach through the screen and give you a hug. It takes a lot to share your story and I am so grateful that you have, for yourself and for other survivors. You are an incredible person. Wishing both you and Shelise the absolute best, thank you. 💞💞 This channel is such a necessary space in this world.
I felt the virtual hug 🩷 TYSM for listening & taking the time to comment.
Kris, you appear to be adjusting well to the real world, kudos! I am horrified by your SA experience and some of the truly ridiculous responses you received. I applaud you for trying really hard to excel even though your gut said no. Been there. Ocasionally still eff it up, but I'm learning! All the best to you and yours ❤ Thank you for sharing.
I’m not LDS but lived in a small town that was mostly LDS, one day my boss asked what ward did I belong to and I said Montgomery ward. Wow did I get a nasty look, he never spoke to me again.
I would have said “The Psych Ward” 😂
😂
I also grew up in a very Mormon town. Seminary was offered as one of the classes through our high school for an actual grade. The building was across the parking lot, but this was a public school. There was no separation between the different areas of life. I wasn't allowed to join the cheerleading or dance teams, and there were a lot of places I couldn't get hired, because I wasn't Mormon.
What? That is insane.
I’m sorry but if they really want girls to be “pure” then they need to teach boys to behave properly. Oh wait, just teach everyone what my exsquared taught our kids. No means no, maybe means no, and yes means no half the time.
I was taught that "Yes" means "No", "Maybe" means "Hell no!", and "No" means "Get the fuck away from me or I''ll call the cops!!!"
My childhood neighbors were raised and still are LDS and I saw first hand the judgement of non lds is real. My brothers friend from the family was definitely like the poster boy for judging non Mormons like to the point of borderline harassment I remember him relentlessly teasing or picking at me cuz I wore tank tops or I wore a bikini or my shorts and skirts were above my knee it’s kind of insane the superiority complex that is engrained in the LDS youth. My friend from that family is honestly one of the sweetest most genuine humans I’ve ever met though so I’ve seen the full spectrum lol
Liked, shared and commented. Up the algorithm.
Keep bringing it because these individual stories are powerful and help others so much!
You ladies are triggering me into some wonderful memories. 😂 Catholic school in the 50s and early 60s had so many of these same rules and shaming techniques. My high school boyfriend and I loved pushing those rules. We'd be out "parkin" on Friday and at confession Saturday so we could go to Communion on Sunday...like every week😅 Somehow we got away with it, and are stiil in touch 55 years later😊 gracias a la vida!
I am so grateful you shared your story. Your story is powerful and healing. The cycle of abuse has been broken with your courage to walk the hero’s journey. ❤
🩷 always happy to share, even when it's difficult! Hope those listening find hope & validation. Our stories are what connect us. x
Kris, I am the same age you are and I,too, had my virginity stolen and remember all of that shame and guilt that I felt and the condemnation from spiritual leaders. I left Christianity going on 2.5 years ago and I still find myself doing those same things: “ is this something my mother did, is this me? Is this something the church taught?”. I am just so glad you found peace and joy in your life on the other side of that horrendous situation. Much love hon.
❤️
Shelise & Kristjana, did you see the Australian Daily Mail article on this episode? It was posted today!😊
Shelise getting more comfortable with swearing is giving me life! I'm getting there too! 🙌🏻😂
Thank you for sharing your story Kris... I related so much with the thoughts and emotions I also experienced after getting disfellowshipped.
Miracle of Forgiveness "The loss of chastity is far-reaching. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. … It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle" I have a friend who was abused as a child and almost took his own life after reading this book. SO sad!! It's a book that gives so much more information on the mindset of the men who hold high positions within the LDS church. Thank you for sharing your story I can relate so much being born and raised LDS. SAD!!
I was once in a counseling session with a therapist (the counselor was affiliated with a church--not mine) and one of the first things he asked me is if I had premarital relations. I didn't tell him off, but that was the first and only time I went to him.
I can only imagine the embarrassment Kris experienced with her Bishop.
It was pretty embarrassing...heartbreaking. 😔 Thanks for listening & supporting.
I love, love, love this channel! I was not raised in any religion (thankfully! My mother was traumatized by a strict Wesleyan Methodist upbringing), so it's very eye-opening hearing all these experiences.
I do have to say, though, the first part of this interview about living in a small town, I think that is a common small town issue of everyone knowing everyone's business, especially with a town that is and has been well established through generations. I grew up in such a town, in a family that settled here since the beginning (I'm in New England, so a vast majority of everything is OLD). My family in particular has been around since the 1600's. I have experienced the phenomenon of a family name holding judgement over a family. It's weird. And it can stem from some of the most insane presumptions. Like Farmer Smith and Farmer Jones were neighbors in 1659 and had a spat over whose oxen could plow the fields faster. Generations and centuries later and the Smith families and Jones families dislike one another "just because".
Hi! Yeah I’m totally agree that there is major crossover there and that all of that can exist without religion. In this case I think it was just amplified with the “holier than thou” stuff. Thanks for watching!❤️
As a fellow Bear River high schooler I can totally relate to both your stories.
Heeeey! Bear River!!!
I love how she got it all out of her . Go Linda!
So much unnecessary trauma, so sorry that happened to you. You were probably still in a state of shock from the violent r**e. My mother, "You drink, you're gonna get pregnant." Well, I drank--it was a catholic university in the mid-60's, but I never got preggers.
You hadn't had proper medical attention much less counseling, then to have to walk into the lion's den for more trauma. So glad you are out of that sick org. You are both so intelligent and articulate and FUN!
Thank you for saying that 🩷 It means the world to me that you listen & share your support.
@@kristjanahillberg5319 💙
This was a great chat! Would def love to hear another with her! Love all you do and thank you so much for sharing your experiences. ❤
If my daughter was assaulted I wouldn’t go to the police… until I was sure the predators heart had stopped beating. Then I would call.
I had to comment on this! I grew up SDA, I was severely traumatized and hurt as a young girl by my parents church. These stories resonated with me to the highest level. The shame cycle of a child at 9-14… just ruined me regarding church and even God for a long time. I now do not go to church, much to my parents dismay, but to me religion is ugly and hurts people. That is not God to me. Not the God I choose to believe in. Unbelievable amounts of absolute abuse went on… the list of rules were outstanding and unbelievable! So many victims… young victims. So sad. I tried so hard to fit in, but wasn’t born into the church and was judged so harshly. There were kids who couldn’t play with me. Kids who told me it was because I was too “secular” and more. I may not be keeping “the sabbath” like I was supposed to. I I was told I just do but fit in. I was 10 years old and just crying my eyes out because I was a good girl and all I wanted to do was fit in. The sabbath was strictly kept Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. We were not allowed to dance, to compete in sports because it was happening on the wrong day. Music with a beat caused people to move their hips in a sexual fashion and that was evil. If you lost your virginity before marriage you were worthless and on and on and on. I tried so hard to fit in and was slammed so hard that I did eventually rebel. Then the pastor was coming to my home and chastising me, threatening to kick me off the church membership records, and on and on. Years later many of these “God like” people were exposed for having affairs and child molestation and more. I chose to not make my children go to church and allow them to choose their own beliefs. If those people were Christ like I will remain sinful. Your channel is so important. I am learning so much. This has scarred me for life. There are so many stories I can tell you that sound so familiar to Mormonism.
honestly i was assaulted when i was 14 so i understand but my outcome was verry different. i started going back to my lds church and in my case they where very supportive and understanding. i recently was ordained a Elder and plan to serve a mission soon. i wish the best of luck to the both of you
I really enjoyed hearing your story Chris. I was a mormon for 40 years; I hung on because of that conditioning, and my insatiable desire to be faithful, never mind I too left it all, at last. I empathised with your trauma; and the awful route that you had to take to arrive to where you are now. You have come out of this so much stronger- as your final statement says. You have become your authentic self. If I was living where you are, I would hope to be a friend to you.
I was SA-ed in 1987.
My heart goes out to Kris. ❤
I'm seeing a therapist to process being raped. I recently realized he's mormon, and I am almost scared to get into it. I already feel so much guilt for what happened. I've been with him for over 3 years and was starting to feel more comfortable opening up. Now I just dont know. Thank you for this interview.
Liar.
Get Kris back on again ... man her energy is amazing
I LOVED this episode. I mean, I hated most of the content (so sorry all that happened to you, Kris ♥️), but it was SO relatable! Thanks for sharing ladies, the community here is so amazingly helpful 💛
🩷🩷 always love sharing; even when it's hard! Thanks for the support.
Wow, I loved this interview so much. She is so happy and thriving now, and I can relate to her and you Shelise so much after leaving the Mormon faith. I literally tell my husband nearly everyday how grateful I am that I listened to my gut and left the church because it didn’t feel right, and now I’m the happiest and actually waaay more spiritual and thriving in my life than I ever was in the church. The Mormon church crushed my soul. The SHAME I felt growing up in it and while being a mother trying to balance that and my church callings and work felt like I was never enough, to the point that I just didn’t want to live anymore. This podcast has been sooo healing for me, I listen to them on a weekly basis. Thank you so much for starting this podcast and providing a platform for people to share their stories. I have some wild personal stories of missionaries serving missions in my ward taking advantage of me even as a young 12 year old and onward. If you’d ever like to chat about that, and the truth of what a lot of these missionaries are like, let me know! -there’s some serious shady stuff and I’m feelin a little feisty to expose them haha
Thank you so much for sharing that. Even though I left at a young age, the heavy shame is so relatable. I’m so happy that the show has been beneficial to you!❤️ feel free to email us your experiences or submit a Jotform in our about section 😊
Thank you, Chris, for sharing your story. I'm an SA survivor. Mine happened in my first marriage, but I stayed because I was raised Catholic. Thank goodness I finally woke up and left. I have a wonderful partner now, and I'm filled with gratitude for them.
Man, I love being Catholic. Confession is such a personal thing. You tell your sin to a priest that is behind a screen in a private room, he tells you your penitence ( which is also personal ex pray a rosary or five Our fathers, my last one was to pray for sinners) and best part he can’t tell it to anyone else. Many priest lost their freedom and lives via torture to keep this vow.
What an incredibly strong woman!! That story of her SA made me so completely livid for her! The entire thing!! From the a$$holes who violated her, to the roommate who showed no sympathy whatsoever, to the disgusting men who insisted she tell them every detail, reliving the trauma not just one, but TWICE!! What kind of twisted perverts feel they need to force a young woman to share her horrific, trauma? I don’t care if they truly believe they’re doing it to save her. It’s disgusting.
On a positive note, I’m so happy for her that she seems to have come out the other side of this as such a content and balanced person. She deserves all the happiness life can offer her.
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